0:00

Committed is a production of I Heart Radio Quick

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Warning. This episode contains

0:06

a story about mental health and a suicide attempt,

0:09

and could be potentially triggering. On

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the morning of September in the year two

0:16

thousand, nineteen year old Kevin Hines

0:19

took a munibus through the streets of San Francisco

0:21

to the Golden Gate Bridge. He

0:23

was shaking and crying like a child, but no

0:26

one seemed to notice. At

0:29

the time, he believed that nobody cared about him

0:31

and that nobody loved him.

0:34

He arrived at the bridge, got

0:36

off the bus, walked

0:38

to the middle and approached the railing.

0:42

He was terrified and tentative, but the

0:44

voices in his head told him to keep going, to

0:47

go over to end his life.

0:52

I was compelled to die by a brain

0:54

that was shattered and voices in my head

0:56

that told me what I had to do when I didn't want to do

0:58

those things. He

1:00

jumped, but the

1:02

second his hands left that guard rail, Kevin

1:04

regretted it. He

1:07

fell two forty ft in four seconds.

1:10

By the time he slammed into the water at seventy five,

1:14

all he wanted was to live. The

1:18

chances of surviving a leap from the Golden gate

1:20

Bridge like that one are one cent. But

1:23

Kevin did survive. He

1:27

survived, he got treatment, and years

1:29

later he met his wife, Margaret, and

1:31

even though he still lives with mental illness, is

1:34

still chronically suicidal. He'll

1:37

never attempt it again. When

1:40

the voices that still live in Kevin's head tell

1:42

him to end it all, he turns to Margaret. He

1:45

says three words, I

1:49

need help. I'm

1:53

Joe Piazza. This

1:56

is committed. We

2:26

need to start this episode before Kevin even met

2:28

Margaret, because everything that happened

2:30

before we met her influenced how their relationship

2:33

unfolded and what it looks like today. The

2:37

best place to start this story is the

2:40

day I was born. I was born to

2:43

biological parents who

2:45

I believe loved me and my brother unconditionally,

2:48

but who could not take care of us. Kevin's

2:53

biological family lived in and out of six

2:55

straight tenderloind motels, sleepy

2:57

on box springs for mattresses, or sometimes

3:00

in the cold concrete slab floor. They

3:02

often paid by the hour. His

3:05

parents did whatever they had to do to pay the motel

3:07

bills, including selling drugs. When

3:12

we were taking away my brother and I into protective

3:15

custody by social Services

3:17

and and UH the foster care system and

3:19

placed in foster care. You know, we bounced

3:21

around from home to home with the idea that me and

3:23

my brother would be adopted together. And

3:25

then we both got a vicious strain of bronchitis and

3:27

Georgia's died and

3:30

that immediate loss loss

3:32

in my birth parents, lost in my brother would

3:35

affect me for the rest of my days in

3:38

the form of a serious detachment

3:41

disorder and a severe abandonment

3:43

issues that follow me until today.

3:46

Kevin was adopted by a couple named Debra and

3:48

Patrick Hines until

3:50

the day you met Margaret. He says, this was

3:52

the best thing that ever happened to him.

3:56

He describes his upbringing his wonderful, beautiful,

3:59

even He went to a great

4:01

school. He did wrestling in football, but

4:03

also theater and art programs. For

4:07

the first time in his life. He was excited about his

4:09

future. And

4:11

then at seventeen, my brain

4:13

just broke. It just fell apart

4:15

of the seems. At seventeen,

4:17

I stood on a stage at Archbishop Rouden High

4:19

School. So in the stage and people

4:23

filled the audience. Not one seat was open,

4:25

and I believed they were all coming to kill me.

4:28

It was my first severe symptom of the

4:30

disease they would later say I had called

4:32

bipolar and it was the same

4:34

brain dis ease both my biological parents

4:36

were diagnosed with called manic depression

4:39

in their dead My

4:41

mom comes to pick me up, and

4:45

the look in her eyes when she looked into

4:47

mine, you could tell

4:49

if she she was terrified of

4:52

the insanity brewing behind them.

4:59

From seventeen and nineteen, I was I

5:02

and my family, we're we're

5:06

destroyed by my brain and

5:10

its lack of ability to function, to

5:13

comprehend things that were

5:16

normal to any other human being at my age. At

5:18

nineteen, I couldn't take the weight

5:21

of the struggle any longer. And

5:24

the next thing that happened is is I I

5:26

found myself at the Golden Gate Bridge,

5:29

ready to dive by my hands um

5:32

and I couldn't cope anymore. I couldn't

5:35

I couldn't rationalize being here. The

5:37

voices in my head, auditory and visual hallucinations

5:39

brought on by trauma had

5:41

become so powerful, so

5:44

immense. I

5:47

thought, Oh, this is just this will be, this will

5:49

be the way. What

5:52

people don't know is it's not quick. There

5:54

are tens of ways to die off the Golden

5:56

gate bridge.

5:59

Of them are slow and violent,

6:02

and those who attempt

6:04

do die off the going gate bridge, and that's

6:06

lowing violent way. So it's

6:09

a one percent chance of survival roughly. But

6:12

Kevin was that one. He

6:15

regretted jumping the second his hands left the bridge,

6:17

but by then he thought it was too late. When

6:21

you hit that water from that height at that speed, it's it's

6:23

like gink a solid brick wall. You stopped

6:25

for less than a second. A vacuum then pulls

6:27

you under the water about seventy ft. And

6:30

then I opened my eyes. I

6:33

was alive, and I was drowning, and

6:36

I didn't want to drown. I

6:39

couldn't even imagine why I

6:41

would jump into a giant body of water if I didn't

6:43

want to drown, But it was. It was the psychosis

6:46

and the voices right before I jumped, said

6:48

jump now at decimals, I can't express

6:51

to anyone without piercing ear drums.

6:53

If I, if I, if I yelled at at the way the way

6:55

that the voice did in my head, Kevin

6:59

swams and defeat with just one breath,

7:01

without the use of his legs. I

7:05

get closer and closer to the lit circle water

7:07

above me, and I'm starting

7:09

to convulse. I'm running out of air and

7:11

I think I'm not gonna make it. This

7:15

is it. I'm gonna die here

7:17

today and I don't want to. And a

7:19

voice mad said no, Kevin, you can't die here.

7:21

If you die here, no one will ever know you didn't want

7:24

to. No, no one will

7:26

ever know you knew you made a mistake. I

7:28

broke the service. I bobbed up and down the water,

7:31

and I did the one thing I've had control

7:33

over since kindergarten. I

7:35

prayed, God, please save

7:38

me. I don't want to die. I

7:40

made a mistake. On repeat,

7:43

God, please save me. I don't want to

7:45

die. I made a mistake. And

7:48

that is when something began circling

7:50

beneath me, something very large

7:53

and very slimy and very much alive. I

7:56

remember freaking out there. It's

7:59

a shark. I didn't die

8:01

off the goal get bridge, and his shark is going

8:03

to eat me. I'm

8:05

waiting for it to bite off my arm or my leg

8:09

or anything else. It just keeps circling faster

8:12

and faster and faster. But then I realized I'm

8:14

no longer waiting in the water. I'm no

8:16

longer struggling to stay afloat. I'm lying

8:18

on top and on my back being kept buoyant

8:20

by this thing, this creature. And

8:23

finally I was like, this is one heck of a nice shark. And

8:26

I named him Herbert right there because

8:28

it was just it just popped into my head. It's Herbert

8:31

or whatever it is. But

8:33

it wasn't a shark. According

8:36

to Kevin, Herbert was a sea lion, and

8:38

a bystander later confirmed that. He

8:42

told kevinet looked like Herbert was trying to keep

8:44

him afloat until the coast guard arrived to save

8:46

him.

8:50

I call that a miracle. I don't know what you call it,

8:53

but that's what I call it. And that

8:55

was, at least it was my miracle. The

8:57

creature took off when the coastguard boat. Murmur

9:00

was heard behind me as in the engine in the

9:02

water. Ghost guard pulls me onto a flatboard,

9:05

straps me and from head to tone and started asking questions.

9:08

The first question was, kid, do you know what you just did?

9:11

And I was fully conscious and a where I said yeah,

9:14

And they said why why

9:16

did you do that? And I had

9:18

no answer. I said, I don't

9:20

know. I thought I had to die today. Kevin's

9:25

spinal vertebrae were crushed, his

9:27

ankle was broken. He

9:30

was rushed to the hospital and into surgery to repair

9:32

his shattered spine. Coming

9:35

off as suicide attempt and his recovery,

9:37

Kevin was in and out of treatments, in

9:40

and out of the psych ward, and

9:42

then came another miracle. I

9:47

met Margaret in my

9:49

third psych ward stay. I was a

9:51

month into a two months day. I

9:53

had two months a month in the psyche ward because none

9:56

of my family or friends would

9:58

house me, no one would take me in. It

10:01

was her first out into a psych Word

10:03

to visit her cousin. She was not a patient.

10:07

Kevin wanted to be useful. It's

10:09

something about him that you can tell right away,

10:12

and you'll hear it in this interview. He

10:15

kept asking his nurses how he could help out, what

10:18

little things he could do to make their lives easier. He'd

10:21

just been given a job cleaning out the psych Words

10:23

giveaway clothes closet. He

10:25

boxed, binned, and labeled everything, and then

10:28

he took what he wanted to wear what

10:30

he wanted to wear was a pink polo shirt, khaki

10:32

cargo shorts, and sandals. He

10:35

also grabbed himself a notebook, a clipboard,

10:37

and a pen from the nurses station. That's

10:40

where he was standing when Margaret came to visit her

10:42

cousin and tapped him on the shoulder, thinking he worked

10:44

there. And I looked into her

10:46

eyes and I was done.

10:49

I knew this would be the rest of my life. I knew

10:51

she would be the rest of my life. It really was

10:53

love at first sight for me.

10:56

And I was trying

10:59

not to say this to her with all

11:01

of my might, like don't don't tell her you love her,

11:03

You just matter. She doesn't know you. Calm down,

11:06

And I said, as a matter of fact,

11:08

miss, I'm a volunteer.

11:11

Now I'm waiting for the entire nurse is station

11:13

to freak out and scream that's

11:15

not accurate. He doesn't work here. He's a he's

11:17

a liar, you know. But they don't and

11:20

so they didn't say anything.

11:23

And she says, well, I'm looking for my cousin. His

11:25

name is and it was this kid. And I walked

11:27

her awkwardly to her cousin's

11:30

room and Margaret says

11:32

to him, your nursing staff

11:34

is so nice. And he yells

11:37

at the top of his lungs that guy,

11:40

that guy is a nutball. That

11:42

guy jumps off bridges. Don't

11:45

talk to that guy. And I

11:47

literally ran inside the room and I said,

11:49

excuse me, excuse me. It was one

11:52

bridge, one bridge plural. That's

11:54

ridiculous. She goes out,

11:56

and she goes why did you lie to me, I said,

11:58

Margaret, I didn't lie to you. I'm a volunteer

12:01

in this very hospital. I just happened

12:03

to also live here. At

12:05

this point, I was thinking, they

12:07

let these patients run loose around

12:10

here. I'd never really been to a psych

12:12

ward, and my idea of a psych word was

12:14

actually closer to like one flew

12:16

over a cuckoo's nest than anything else. He asked

12:18

me out. I kept thinking, no, actually,

12:21

more like hale, No, I'm not going out

12:23

with you because you're a patient in

12:26

the psych ward and you're not well. So

12:28

it was like this weird, this

12:31

weird relationship from the beginning. But then I

12:33

got to know him, and I got to know the real person

12:35

outside of the psych ward. Kevin

12:39

kind of took Margaret's cousin under his wing after

12:41

that, and through that he got to know our entire

12:44

family. He

12:46

was crushing really hard, and he kept asking her

12:48

out. A couple of months

12:50

later, he was released into a halfway house. Kevin

12:55

asked me out throughout

12:58

all those months, and then finally forwards the end

13:00

of October, I said, yeah, sure, let's

13:03

go on a date. And so it was the worst

13:05

date known mankind, humankind,

13:08

the worst date ever for anyone in the world.

13:13

You can't say something like that and not back

13:15

it up. Kevin and Margaret can

13:17

really back it up. We'll

13:21

find out more after a quick break. So

13:32

Kevin and Margaret really were on the

13:34

worst date ever. Kevin

13:37

showed up at Margaret's apartment with a giant Duffel

13:39

bag filled with most of his belongings. She

13:42

didn't know what to say. What would you

13:44

say? She asked, what the hell he was

13:47

carrying? I said,

13:49

Margaret, it's a funny story. When you leave the Halfway

13:51

Home on a Friday and you go out past nine

13:53

pm. You made reservations at nine.

13:56

The thing is, you can't come back to

13:58

the halfway Home until Monday.

14:02

And I dropped the bag and I opened my arms and I

14:04

was like to da, and she goes, oh,

14:07

hell no, and I go, Margaret,

14:09

I will take this bag. I will lay across the

14:11

street on those stairs, on Lombard steps,

14:13

and I will lay there with this bag is my pillow

14:16

with no blanket, and I'll go to sleep tonight. But we have

14:18

to go on this date. I came a long way and

14:20

she goes, oh god fine. They

14:23

stashed the bag away and walked down the street to a

14:25

restaurant. There's this old mob

14:27

hangout called Cafe Sport, where

14:31

you don't order, they look at you, they

14:33

judge it, and they order for you, which

14:35

is nerve racking because I have lots of allergies.

14:38

And we get there and the tables are the

14:40

size of like the seats of small chairs, and

14:43

they get Margaret an eggplant parmesan

14:45

dish, which is very small, simple, quaint, fits

14:47

on the table. But this guy clearly didn't

14:50

like me. I was the new guy. She'd clearly

14:52

been there before. And he gets me a giant

14:54

bed of spaghetti, a mountain of marinara

14:56

sauce, a huge uncracked lobster, and

14:58

a votive and a candle late and boiling butter,

15:01

and an oddly cut lemon wedge and

15:03

I'm thinking I'm done for I'm wearing my only good

15:05

white shirt. I bought an old Navy on sale

15:07

at the clearance track for five dollars. I live

15:10

off at three dollars a day because of s S. I that's

15:12

a two day shirt. I'm panicking, and if I get

15:14

anything on this shirt, she's gonna think I'm a slob. I

15:16

cracked the tail of lobster Mariner all

15:19

over my white shirt, she thinks in a slab.

15:21

In the first five minutes I have this inner dialogue

15:23

was like, Kevin, do something classy

15:26

right now. And that's when

15:28

I took the oddly cut lemon wedge. I picked

15:30

it up, I looked at it, and I looked at

15:32

Margaret's eyes. Alman brown, sexy

15:34

and cool, that's true. I

15:37

threw my arm forward and squeezed

15:39

the entirety of the lemon as hard as I could

15:41

inside my fist. And I've missed

15:44

my plate. I've missed her plate.

15:46

And I'm watching as the stream of lemon juice flies

15:48

directly into her left eye

15:50

and it would just kept going like a fire hose,

15:53

and mascara is running down her face. She

15:56

looks like, you know the band Kiss and that is

15:58

when I hear this lady next to

16:00

us go, meth are you okay?

16:03

And I turned her and I was like, lady, it's a date.

16:05

It's going south. You're not helping. And I said,

16:07

Kevin, do something classier right

16:10

now. And I went for the plate

16:12

of boiling butter and

16:14

I tipped the plate. I watched his

16:16

two droplets of boiling butterfly and slow

16:18

motion between her blouse under chest

16:21

and they burn her and she screamed

16:24

it was it was really bad.

16:27

Well okay, and

16:29

then Margaret says the only two words you do not

16:32

want to hear on a first date. Check

16:34

please. And I

16:37

thought, this is it. It's done. We're

16:39

not going to get married. We're not gonna have

16:41

you know, I imagine a full family,

16:44

six kids like my like my grandpa

16:46

had, you know, three boys and three girls. And I

16:48

was imagining this whole future life and this dog

16:50

named Max and everything, and he

16:53

was a sharp pay I was imagining

16:55

all this full future and I thought it was all gone.

16:58

And so we walked back to the apartment, and of

17:00

course she's walking like a mile in front of me. I remember

17:02

he had the bag, and I thought, oh my god.

17:04

Well, we get back to the house, and

17:08

I thought it was really awkward that I

17:10

had to go back into my apartment with him

17:12

and his bag, and I can't let him sleep

17:14

on the steps outside. You could, you could,

17:16

I would have done it. Yeah, Well, and I didn't want to be

17:18

in the apartment with him, and it was just awkward

17:20

to say, okay, sleep on my couch, and so it

17:22

just it was weird all around. So I thought,

17:24

okay, you know what, let's just see what we could do to salvage

17:27

this. So we took the elevator upstairs to the

17:29

roof. Then Kevin said,

17:35

and I said, no, I let's just go up to the roof.

17:37

And and I was thinking, well,

17:40

at least, like we're still outside, we get some fresh

17:42

air, we don't have to be inside

17:44

and have awkward silence. And he's on

17:46

the couch anyway, So we get upstairs and

17:49

at this point I'm just so exhausted from

17:51

all the evenings activities.

17:55

I said, all right, just lay down and

17:59

just relax it whatever, and then

18:01

tell me your story. And he did. He

18:03

started to tell me everything

18:05

about the diagnoses, from

18:07

the adoption, his whole life to the

18:09

diagnoses, to the attempt

18:11

off the bridge and another attempt

18:13

after that, and you know about his suicidal

18:16

ideation and its chronical suicidality,

18:18

but also about bipolar disorder and mental illness.

18:21

We would chatted for a couple of hours and

18:23

we both fell asleep on the roof and I remember

18:25

waking up but like five in the morning and

18:28

just thinking, oh, that, you know, we really turned

18:30

that data around. That's the reason why I said

18:33

yes to the second date and got to know Kevin,

18:35

got to see him passed all

18:37

of the mental illness and on the suicidality

18:40

and his past, and it was much more

18:42

of a learning experience, I think for me

18:45

to know and meet this guy that

18:47

was not ashamed of his

18:49

mental health issues and didn't

18:52

shy away from it. He never silenced

18:54

the fact that he was suicidal and

18:56

chronically suicidal. And he would say it like,

18:59

you know, just as anybody would say, hey, I have

19:01

a broken arm, he would say I have a broken brain, and

19:03

I think about suicide on a daily basis with

19:05

absolutely no shame. And

19:07

it was really brave and courageous behavior

19:11

like that that he displayed on

19:14

a daily basis that actually

19:16

made me really fall in love with him, because you

19:18

know my backgrounds and finance, and

19:21

we don't really come across a lot of people in finance

19:24

that are willing to share their weaknesses

19:27

and to be courageous enough to talk

19:29

about, you

19:31

know, mental health issues, let alone suicidality.

19:34

So that was really new for me, and

19:37

it was also educational and beautiful.

19:40

After that the evening, I realized,

19:43

well, I wasn't scared at all. I was curious

19:46

and I wanted to learn more. And

19:49

I felt like this

19:52

man before me was

19:55

the first person in my life, my entire

19:57

life, that made me feel like I want to become a better

19:59

person. Margaret

20:01

was all in after that. Kevin

20:05

was pretty much the opposite of cool for their entire

20:07

relationship. Remember, he'd

20:09

already planned their wedding, all their children's

20:12

names, and their sharp pay. Still,

20:15

he did manage to wait two years before proposing.

20:18

Exactly two years he

20:21

had account down gooing, and he planned to do it at

20:23

exactly twelve oh one am on their two year

20:25

anniversary. I

20:28

run into the bedroom like huffing and puffing,

20:30

and Mary, I'm

20:32

just like an idiot, woke her up. She

20:34

goes, she is there a fire And the first

20:36

thing that is there a fire and I get down on one knee

20:38

and I say, Marty, will you do me the honor of becoming

20:41

my and she goes no, no,

20:43

no, no no no. She's shaken like no

20:45

no, not like this, not

20:48

like this. And I was like wife,

20:50

and she goes no,

20:53

no, no, no no no. I said, know you say

20:55

no, and she goes come back to bed and asked

20:58

me in the morning. I was like, oh

21:00

my god, oh my god. What if she

21:02

says no she fell soundly asleep.

21:05

I'm freaking out. I didn't sleep a wink.

21:07

I'm like, oh god, she's gonna wake

21:09

up and say no. She didn't wake up and say no, it's all you think

21:12

about. And so I'm lying there and

21:14

I was like staring at her. And she wakes

21:16

up and I don't know, It's like six something in

21:18

the morning. She was like, what are

21:20

you doing? What is wrong with you? And I was like,

21:23

um, did you think about what I asked

21:25

you last night? And she goes, yes,

21:29

you know just basically

21:32

basically, you couldn't have picked a worst way to propose

21:34

to me, but yes, and

21:37

you know, I just fire.

21:46

And even though that proposal was almost as

21:48

bad as their first date, the wedding

21:51

itself was beautiful. We

21:53

had a big Roman Catholic ceremony

21:56

and St. Cecilia's in San Francisco,

21:59

that's the rich In school that Kevin grew

22:01

up at and going to thank We

22:04

had about two fifty people at the wedding

22:07

and then we had our reception at the Olympic Club,

22:09

which is a golf course overlooking the

22:11

Pacific Ocean. Church. Ceremony

22:13

was really really it was religious.

22:16

We knelt the whole time. We had

22:18

a really good friend of ours, his father played

22:21

the Irish bagpipes and walked us all

22:23

out of the church and it was so powerful

22:25

and beautiful and

22:28

it was the perfect ending to a

22:30

very solemn, quiet wedding ended

22:32

out with like a big, belting Irish

22:35

bagpiping session. It

22:37

was gorgeous. And then to pay homage to my irritage,

22:39

we had Spanish music at the Olympic Club

22:42

during our reception with our two hundred

22:44

and fifty closest family and friends, and we had

22:46

a Flamenco band, Spanish music,

22:48

a lot of gypsy kings. Just last

22:50

week we were in San Francisco and we

22:53

had dinner with some friends who were guests at our wedding,

22:55

and they were telling us it was the most beautiful wedding

22:57

that I'd ever been too. They've

22:59

been married now for twelve years, and

23:02

in that time, Margaret and Kevin have learned a lot about

23:04

each other and about mental illness and

23:07

how to cope with having a spouse who will live in and

23:09

out of the psych ward for the rest of their life. More

23:12

after a quick break, Kevin

23:35

still deals with his mental health has she's on a daily

23:37

basis. He's

23:39

been in the psych ward a total of eight times.

23:43

Why with you six including

23:45

the third? But yeah, are

23:47

you measuring our marriage? No?

23:50

No, no no? What did your mom say when you

23:52

first started dating me? My mom said, look,

23:55

I love Kevin, he's a really good guy, but I don't

23:57

want you to have a really hard life, because

23:59

you will if you marry somebody with a mental illness.

24:01

It's going to be really tough road. And she was right. The

24:04

one thing she left out, which she couldn't possibly

24:06

have known, was the fact that it's

24:09

so worth it, not just because

24:11

I love you, but it's also I

24:13

think in you, I've found a partner

24:15

that will fight for his wellness and for

24:17

our wellness as a couple. The one thing

24:20

I tell the couples that ask

24:22

for advice is the trust has to be there.

24:25

Without that trust, it's not going to work. And

24:27

I mean like implicit trust. Kevin

24:30

certainly trust me to tell

24:32

him the truth about something, and even

24:34

if it sometimes may sound like a criticism because

24:36

I get annoyed too. I'm just a human like I

24:38

do. Get annoyed and I get frustrated and

24:41

sometimes I'm not patient. But you know what, that's

24:43

okay because I get to be like that, you know,

24:45

like there's a lot going on. I

24:47

think he also trusts that when

24:50

I say, hey, keV, you're operating below or

24:52

above the bar, he

24:54

knows I'm I'm not saying that to get

24:56

something out of it. I'm saying it to help him,

24:59

right, because ultimately, at the end of the day, it's affecting

25:01

him and he cares. He cares to

25:03

be well, and I think that's bottom line for

25:06

us. One of the best things mart does

25:08

is she'll will have coping tools

25:10

that benefit my brain. So if I'm depressed,

25:13

it's like, Okay, let's go eat some broccoli or

25:15

some cashews that are low grade antidepressant,

25:17

or get out in the sun because that's also

25:20

is low grade antidepressant or did you take your vitamin

25:23

D something that today you know these kinds things

25:28

like an arsenal of tools and

25:30

resources and coping mechanisms

25:33

and medicines and vitam everything.

25:35

It's like it's literally like a toolbox of things

25:37

to help me help him. And

25:39

I had to learn this a long the way. Nobody taught me

25:42

how to be a caregiver as an

25:44

impacted family member. Did you

25:46

did you? Did you? Did? Organically

25:48

happen? You kind of have to figure

25:52

things out as you go along

25:54

and along the way, and that's really hard because a lot

25:56

of it is trial and error. I'm really

25:58

involved in getting up a group of

26:00

folks called the Impacted family Members, who are essentially

26:03

caregivers who have been impacted through

26:05

the American Association of Suicideology, and

26:07

we're working with several mental health groups

26:09

because I think that the impact of family members

26:11

are the most overlooked. I think they

26:14

get lost. There's not enough resources and tools

26:17

out there for us. We are essentially each other's

26:19

support groups, but we need a little bit

26:21

more than that. We need to strengthen ourselves and we need

26:23

to find our own resilience because self care

26:25

is paramount. I get questions from wives everywhere,

26:28

even mothers and fathers, parents,

26:30

and they say, how do you do it when he's in this

26:32

stage, in this phase, when he's so manic, and

26:35

he doesn't listen to how do you do it? And you know what, the

26:37

one thing I say to the first thing I do is self

26:39

care. I have to take care of me. And

26:41

sometimes that's you know, going to yoga

26:43

class when it's not the most opportune moment,

26:46

or taking some time out for yourself

26:48

and just being by yourself and meditating,

26:51

or just watching a movie. Sometimes

26:53

it's eating a bowl of ice cream or having

26:56

social time with your friends and spending

26:59

a little time apart to recognize what

27:01

what you have and the value of it. So there's

27:03

there's so many things in my arsenal, but I will

27:05

say self care is at the top of

27:07

that toolbox. So

27:10

you have your toolbox when something goes wrong.

27:13

But I wanted to know if you could do anything beforehand,

27:15

if you could do anything to prepare for an episode,

27:19

you really can't. I

27:22

pay really close attention to him his moods,

27:24

and we stay in really close touch. If I'm not traveling

27:27

with him, which is more often the case. Then we're in

27:29

touch throughout the day and I tell him you're a

27:31

little bit past the top bar, or you're a little

27:33

bit kind of operating below the

27:35

bottom bar. And because

27:38

Kevin, I know, this is the one thing I can say.

27:40

He wants his wellness so badly

27:43

and he fights for it. If I tell

27:45

him you're operating too low and he's

27:47

not getting in the shower on a daily

27:49

basis, or sometimes twice a day because you know

27:51

he's working out or whatever, and he's not brushing his

27:53

teeth twice a day, I'll tell him one

27:56

of the first things to go in a depression is

27:58

hygiene. It's well known, but nobody talks about it. It's

28:00

internally known in the mental health field, but nobody outside

28:02

the mental health feels willing to talk about it because it's embarrassing.

28:05

That's why we see a lot of individuals

28:07

that may look dirty, who have mental

28:10

struggles because they can't

28:12

focus on getting in the shower

28:14

or cleaning their fingernails. Because

28:16

they're barely functioning and their brain is warped.

28:18

It's trying to take them down. It's a place where

28:20

you have love for no one and no thing

28:23

you can't appreciate. Love, care

28:25

for anyone, not not yourself, not anyone.

28:27

I remember when she figured out. She's like, Kevin, do

28:29

you love our dog Max? And

28:32

I was like, we can give him away. And

28:34

she's like, do you love your father? Patrick? Uh?

28:37

I don't love anybody. What do you want

28:39

to do besides caring

28:41

for your family? I just want to go move into

28:43

the woods and live in the woods in a in a cabin

28:45

I'll build myself, doesn't even care. And

28:49

she was like, you know there's spiders in the woods right

28:51

now, and I have a terrible racnophobia.

28:53

You know there's spiders in the woods. I was like, I'll just I'll eat

28:55

them, you know. It just it didn't make it was all I

28:58

knew. That's when I knew something was wrong when

29:00

I say I'll eat spiders. And

29:02

that's when they know that Kevin needs to check himself

29:04

into the psych word for a while. So

29:06

that's what they do. And

29:09

what do you guys see for your future? I

29:11

know, Kevin, you had all of this planned out,

29:13

six children, a dog, dog.

29:17

Well we had one. We had a miscarriage

29:20

and then we weren't able to get prayed. After that

29:22

but we're right for medical medication issues.

29:25

But maybe our next project

29:28

project, well,

29:33

everything is a project in my book. I don't know, maybe

29:36

you know, we're thinking about it. I think Kevin's

29:38

logical clock is taking He's

29:41

been men a lot lately. In

29:45

the meantime, Kevin and Margaret have plenty to

29:47

keep them busy. I ended

29:49

up reprioritizing

29:52

my life and decided that instead

29:54

of helping make millionaires

29:57

into billionaires, I'm going to help my husband save

29:59

more lives, and I'm going to help him help heal

30:01

more people, and I'm gonna help him encourage

30:03

help speaking behavior. Together

30:06

they run the Kevin and Margaret Hines Foundation,

30:09

working on projects to normalize the conversation

30:11

around mental health, wellness, and suicide

30:13

prevention. We're

30:16

very involved with the American Association of Suicideology.

30:19

We're involved in the International Bipolar Foundation,

30:23

Euros Suicides Movement, Mental

30:25

Health America. We support them.

30:27

I mean, we can go on and on and on. What

30:29

we ended up doing was making the documentary

30:31

Suicide The Ripple Effect. Kevin started a YouTube

30:33

channel. We have a pretty good following

30:36

on social media, and we're working with influencers,

30:39

not just in the social media space, but in the

30:41

world essentially globally to

30:44

really affect change and start helping

30:46

people share their stories responsibly,

30:48

but also support research efforts were

30:50

huge. Suicide prevention and mental health research

30:53

supporters worked on the legislative

30:55

efforts to get the net up on the Golden gate

30:57

Bridge. Now it's going up in one

31:00

there won't be any deaths on the Golden gate Bridge. Every

31:04

time they've had to check Kevin into the psych ward,

31:07

every time Margaret has had to hold his hand through recovery,

31:10

their marriage has gotten stronger each

31:14

time they've done it. They've learned something new about themselves

31:16

in their marriage. But that doesn't

31:18

mean it isn't still hard. Of

31:21

course, it's hard, and

31:24

it's not only hard because Kevin has mental health

31:26

issues. It's it's hard because we have been married

31:29

for twelve years now. We have real issues

31:31

too that any marriage would go through. We

31:33

would believe in therapy and we believe

31:36

in communication. We

31:38

really talk about stuff. Sometimes it's really

31:40

hard to talk about some of the things that we have to talk about,

31:44

but we do because I look at him

31:46

and I know that it's he's

31:48

worth it and that we're worth it. We

31:50

take our vows very seriously, I'll

31:52

be here, She'll be here. We got

31:55

this. Mental

32:21

health is complicated and messy for

32:24

all of us. A

32:27

high percentage of

32:30

marriages fail when one of the spouses

32:32

is going through severe mental health issues, particularly

32:36

bipolar disorder. But

32:38

Kevin and Margaret are committed to making it

32:40

work. It's part of their promise to

32:42

each other. Our

32:46

marriage is real and it is not easy.

32:49

But no marriage is easy, and it shouldn't be. It's

32:51

work, and that's okay. But

32:54

it is a real marriage with real marriage

32:57

marital problems. But

32:59

it's also real marriage with real love

33:02

and real resilience.

33:05

And I

33:07

think so long as you wanted to work, it will.

33:11

And we're a true team. And we started off

33:13

with a really strong friendship too, and

33:15

we have that foundation that we built on which really

33:18

helps, you know, it helps with the trust, and it helps

33:20

with the authenticity of our marriage because

33:22

people really close to us know that

33:25

sometimes it's really it's really hard. And

33:29

Margaret and I made a deal long time ago no

33:31

matter what we went through, we would

33:34

weather the storm because of

33:36

our unkindness, the love for each other. And I think that

33:38

that is why we stay together. That is how we stay

33:40

together. We just we always go back to

33:43

we will do this, we will fight

33:45

this, we will be in this together. This

34:05

episode was hosted and reported by Joe Piazza,

34:07

with special thanks to Kevin and Margaret Hines.

34:10

It was produced, edited and mixed by Ramsey Young.

34:13

The executive producers are Joe Piazza and

34:15

Tyler Klain. Theme song by Tristan

34:17

McNeil. For comics suggestions

34:20

or to be part of the show, give us a call at

34:22

four zero four three.

34:26

That's four zero four seven

34:31

three, or send us an email at

34:33

Joe at Committed podcast dot

34:35

com. That's j O at

34:38

Committed podcast dot com.

34:40

If you would like to know more about the Kevin and Margaret

34:42

Hines Foundation, please visit their site

34:45

at k m Hinz Foundation

34:48

dot org. If you are

34:50

someone you know are experiencing severe depression

34:52

or suicidal thoughts, please contact

34:54

the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

34:57

You can contact the seven at

35:00

eight hundred to seven three eight

35:02

two five five. That's dred

35:05

to seven three eight two five

35:08

five. You can grab a copy of Joe's

35:10

book How to Be Married on Amazon

35:13

or wherever books are sold. Committed

35:15

as a production of iHeart Radio and produced in our

35:17

studios located in Atlanta, Georgia. For

35:19

more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the

35:21

iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

35:24

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.