0:03

Hey, it's Jeff, and I have

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It fuels the work. Welcome

1:42

to the commune podcast. My name

1:44

is Jeff Krasnow. As we approach

1:46

700 episodes on the commune podcast,

1:48

we are now republishing some of

1:50

our most popular interviews with teachers

1:53

who now have full-length courses

1:55

over on the commune course

1:57

platform. So this interview is the

1:59

final. installment in a

2:02

series I had with

2:04

the extraordinary doctor and

2:06

metabolic health expert Dr.

2:08

Casey Means. We ended

2:10

up naming that series,

2:12

unlocking good energy. In

2:14

today's conversation, Casey and

2:16

I discuss how to

2:18

balance blood sugar levels.

2:20

While the use of

2:22

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2:25

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2:27

they are not the

2:29

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2:31

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2:33

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2:35

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2:37

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2:39

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2:41

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2:43

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2:45

understanding the endogenous production

2:48

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2:50

perspectives on its importance

2:52

in metabolic health. And

2:54

in this episode, she

2:56

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2:58

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3:00

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3:02

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3:04

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3:06

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3:08

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3:11

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3:13

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3:19

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4:22

get ready for my

4:24

conversation with Dr. Casey

4:26

right after. the break.

4:28

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5:59

Castan. We made it again. Hi.

6:01

Hi. Always bringing the good energy.

6:04

You too. I do my best.

6:06

I'm in your wake. Stop it.

6:08

I'm in your wake. We could

6:11

just keep going. We're here to

6:13

talk about mitochondria and metabolism and

6:15

balanced glucose levels, but we're also

6:18

here to celebrate your new book.

6:20

Good energy. I mean, you epitomize

6:22

good energy in every way. And

6:25

our commune course, optimization metabolism. So

6:27

excited this has been. A dream,

6:29

you made it happen. For so

6:32

long we've been talking about this

6:34

and it's here. It's here, on

6:36

this very day that we sit

6:39

here. So we've been having a

6:41

number of conversations about how important

6:43

mitochondrial health is, how important optimizing

6:46

our metabolism is. And one of

6:48

the keys to that is being

6:50

able to balance and achieve stable

6:53

blood sugar levels. So let's start

6:55

with. what does that actually look

6:57

like? Like what does that mean

7:00

balanced blood sugar levels? Yeah, so

7:02

we will just feel better day

7:04

to day if our blood sugar

7:07

levels don't have giant swings and

7:09

crashes. We want to keep our

7:11

blood sugar more like a gentle

7:14

up and down rolling hill than

7:16

really big peaks and valleys and

7:18

that's for a number of reasons.

7:21

When we have those peaks, The

7:23

big spikes in blood. sugar, which

7:25

could be from a very high

7:28

refined carbohydrate meal or refined grain

7:30

meal. It's not necessarily the spike

7:32

that will make us feel bad,

7:35

it's actually the crash after the

7:37

spike, because when your body sees

7:39

that big influx of glucose, it

7:42

releases a big surge of insulin,

7:44

which can overcompensate and cause you

7:46

to drop after the spike, which

7:49

is called reactive hypoglycemia. It's often

7:51

when people are in that. postmeal

7:53

dip that they have some of

7:56

those postmeal symptoms like the postmeal

7:58

crash or feeling fatigued feeling maybe

8:00

even a little bit of anxiety

8:03

and also feeling more cravings. So

8:05

this is so relevant to anyone

8:07

who deals with cravings. If we

8:10

can get off the glucose roller

8:12

coaster we can often only beat

8:14

our cravings and there was an

8:17

amazing paper from actually nature, Premier

8:19

Medical Journal, that showed that. Postmeal

8:21

dips, they called them, are predictive

8:24

of total energy intake over the

8:26

following 24 hours and cravings for

8:28

carbohydrates and time between that meal

8:31

and the next meal. So this

8:33

makes sense. If your blood sugar

8:35

has crashed below your baseline, that

8:38

is a threat signals the body

8:40

like saying, whoa, we're low on

8:42

blood sugar, we gotta get back

8:45

up to baseline. And so it's

8:47

gonna. presumably push you in some

8:49

psychological way to seek food to

8:52

bring the blood sugar back up

8:54

to baseline. This is making me

8:56

reflect on the insidious nature of

8:59

what it is to go out

9:01

for dinner, right? So you get

9:03

the bread basket, and then you

9:06

have a crash and then what

9:08

comes afterwards and then dessert. And

9:10

yeah, they do that. I mean,

9:13

this is this is such a

9:15

brilliant business tactic for restaurants to

9:18

bring you bread. or chips in

9:20

the beginning of a meal. Because

9:22

if they can spike you, they

9:25

can literally get you to consume

9:27

or calories, which is what this

9:29

amazing nature paper. So that's one

9:32

of the reasons we want to

9:34

balance our blood sugar. And then

9:36

the second piece is more broadly

9:39

that this concept of glycemic variability,

9:41

which is the magnitude of the

9:43

up and down swings and glucose

9:46

over time. Glycemic variability is independently

9:48

predictive of poor health outcomes down

9:50

the road. So aside from just

9:53

sustained high blood sugar, like you

9:55

might see in someone with pre-diabetes

9:57

or type two diabetes, it's the

10:00

swings themselves that also are associated

10:02

with bad health outcomes. So we

10:04

want to keep the blood sugar

10:07

in somewhat, you know, in a

10:09

moderately more stable range, understanding that

10:11

there will be rises after our

10:14

meals as we take in carbohydrates.

10:16

But that the giant swings are

10:18

going to make us not feel

10:21

as good and that's the main

10:23

point there. I have a dream

10:25

that my glucose levels will be

10:28

like the rolling hills of Georgia

10:30

and not like the Swiss Alps.

10:32

So give me that band of

10:35

what might represent sort of the

10:37

range of healthy bloodshudder levels. So

10:39

like for example... back in my

10:42

old days when I wasn't doing

10:44

so well, I was like fasting

10:46

blood glucose of like 125 milligrams

10:49

per decilator. So that was on

10:51

the upper edge of pre-diabetes, kind

10:53

of lower edge of diabetic levels.

10:56

So just to give people that

10:58

frame of reference who don't aren't

11:00

familiar with the metrics as much.

11:03

So what would be kind of

11:05

a healthy band knowing that there

11:07

would be these postprandial... you know,

11:10

kind of like little upticks and

11:12

then there'll be kind of these

11:14

down swings. So where should it's

11:17

kind of more or less live?

11:19

Yeah. So from the standard criteria

11:21

of how we sort of diagnose

11:24

clinical conditions for fasting glucose, which

11:26

is morning glucose, when we wake

11:28

up and have not consumed any

11:31

calories for eight hours or more,

11:33

normal is considered less than 100

11:35

milligrams per death leader, type 2

11:38

diabetes is above 120, 126 or

11:40

above. And if we're actually talking

11:42

about optimal and like the best

11:45

possible health outcomes, we want that

11:47

fasting glucose more between about 70

11:49

and 85. So the lower end

11:52

of normal. We're talking about post

11:54

meal. The astonishing thing is that

11:56

we do not have a standard

11:59

criteria that the powers at B

12:01

tell us for like what normal

12:03

glycemic variability is or what you

12:06

should shoot for. So a lot

12:08

of this is coming from looking

12:10

at. different studies and what the

12:13

populations who are most healthy what

12:15

their normal glucose fluctuations are and

12:17

expert opinion and sort of putting

12:20

it all together. And when you

12:22

triangulate all of that it is

12:24

likely optimal for us to be

12:27

sitting throughout the day between about

12:29

70 and 120 milligrams per deciliter.

12:31

So that's like a 50 point

12:34

range where you're kind of going

12:36

up after meals and then down.

12:38

And I try to aim for

12:41

no more than a 30 milligram

12:43

per deciliter rise between the beginning

12:45

and the peak of my meal.

12:48

So if I started at 80,

12:50

that's like going up to 110

12:52

and then coming back down. The

12:55

reason why I shoot for that

12:57

is because having worn a continuous

12:59

glucose monitor for so much time,

13:02

I know. that if I keep

13:04

it to that range or lower,

13:06

I don't have the crash. And

13:09

if it starts to go far

13:11

above that, then I'll start to

13:13

see that crash that makes me

13:16

feel irritable and tired and have

13:18

craving. So I think that really

13:20

speaks to some of the bio

13:23

individuality about this. You really do

13:25

need to see for yourself and

13:27

also just tune into your own

13:30

body awareness about that. But to

13:32

sum up, I would say probably

13:34

between about 70 to 120 is

13:37

a good range to shoot for

13:39

throughout the day. some experts that

13:41

you've had on your podcast will

13:44

save in a lower band like

13:46

below 115 or 110 throughout the

13:48

whole day. And then, you know,

13:51

trying to keep it below about

13:53

30 milligrams to us to rise.

13:55

a meal. And if you look

13:58

at what the ADA American Diabetes

14:00

Association say and the International Diabetes

14:02

Federation, their general recommendation is that

14:05

people stay below at two hours

14:07

after a meal are below 140

14:09

milligrams to rest leaders. So that's

14:12

like very, very, very high. If

14:14

I'm really dialed into my diet,

14:16

I'm never getting to 140 in

14:19

a month usually ever. And they're

14:21

saying that it's actually okay. to

14:23

not only go above that, but

14:26

just be back down below that

14:28

at two hours. I would say

14:30

that's far far too lenient and

14:33

that's going to just be exposing

14:35

your blood vessels in your body

14:37

to such a large glucose load

14:40

that I think it's far too

14:42

lenient. Yeah. Well, what we accept

14:44

as normal now is not particularly

14:47

normal. So true. Yeah. So well,

14:49

let's talk about some very specific

14:51

techniques to that we can employ

14:54

that aren't. particularly onerous or outrageous,

14:56

candidly, to keep ourselves, you know,

14:58

well within that band. So I

15:01

know in your book, I believe

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in in your course, you've outlined

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where do you want to start?

19:28

Like I know that, for example,

19:30

there is this concept of naked

19:33

carbs. And that's all that's a

19:35

great place. It's right, because I

19:37

didn't talk about anything that's naked.

19:39

So why don't we start with

19:41

carbs and the cadencing of what

19:44

macronutrient we eat win? So we'll

19:46

start with me with those two.

19:48

Yes. So I love this because

19:50

there are these incredible really simple

19:52

strategies that we can implement that.

19:55

Don't even really talk about us

19:57

like giving up anything. It's really

19:59

just strategies to kind of add

20:01

on to our lifestyle to stabilize

20:03

our blood sugar. I will. say

20:06

at the highest level the best

20:08

thing we can do to stabilize

20:10

our blood sugar is to eat

20:12

real unprocessed food and to heal

20:14

our mitochondrial through all the different

20:17

lifestyle aspects not just food because

20:19

then it's processing more glucose so

20:21

that's kind of highest level we

20:23

really actually want to focus on

20:26

doing those things however on the

20:28

day-to-day these strategies can be very

20:30

very healthy helpful so no naked

20:32

carbs what that means is that

20:34

there are essentially foods that are

20:37

like predominantly carbohydrate from a macronutrient

20:39

perspective. So if you look at

20:41

a banana, 92% of its calories

20:43

come from carbohydrates. That's essentially, if

20:45

you're just eating a banana on

20:48

its own, the biggest thing you're

20:50

getting into your gut is carbohydrates.

20:52

Versus if you're eating a banana

20:54

with some almond butter and maybe

20:56

some chia pudding, you're getting fat

20:59

and fiber and protein and carbohydrates.

21:01

So it's more. balance and that's

21:03

going to totally change the way

21:05

you digest that banana. It's going

21:07

to slow digestion, the fiber that

21:10

you're putting in there with the

21:12

cheese, the nut butter might literally

21:14

cause you to absorb less of

21:16

the glucose from the banana. It's

21:18

the protein and the fat is

21:21

going to trigger your satiety hormones

21:23

totally differently. So it's really just

21:25

about balancing our meals and trying

21:27

to eat our predominant carbohydrate sources

21:29

with fat. fiber or protein from

21:32

healthy sources to essentially minimize that

21:34

flood of glucose into the system.

21:36

So a lot of people will,

21:38

you know, maybe add a hard

21:40

boiled egg or some cheese or

21:43

some whole milk yogurt or some

21:45

nut butter or a handful of

21:47

almonds or something like that to

21:49

foods they used to eat all

21:51

on their own, like, you know,

21:54

carbohydrates rich foods and fine that

21:56

their blood sugar rise is so,

21:58

so. much less. So that's the

22:00

concept with naked carbohydrates. Cool. So

22:02

let's say I want to... like

22:05

in a glass of wine, maybe

22:07

natural wine, I'm on my game,

22:09

which doesn't have as much sugar,

22:11

how would I think about kind

22:13

of cadencing that consumption of that

22:16

glass of wine or to minimize

22:18

a blood sugar spike? So would

22:20

there be something like, could I

22:22

eat something before it or with

22:24

it that might minimize? a spike.

22:27

Interesting. Well, wine is a very

22:29

interesting, you know, thing that you

22:31

bring up because something with alcohol

22:33

that's kind of fastening is that

22:35

actually if you're drinking a straight

22:38

spirit that's unsweetened like distilled alcohol

22:40

or an unsweetened wine or something

22:42

like that, it many people find

22:44

that it actually lowers their glucose

22:47

levels. Yeah, and the reason for

22:49

that, and some people will actually

22:51

use that as a strategy when

22:53

they're wearing a continuous glucose monitor

22:55

to keep their blood sugar lower.

22:58

This is a bad strategy. Some

23:00

people have actually called it an

23:02

invisibility cloak for their blood sugar

23:04

because what it and it's for

23:06

a mechanism is basically alcohol processing

23:09

blocks something in the liver and

23:11

enzyme that is naturally always producing

23:13

glucose to the process of glucaneogenesis

23:15

and in blocking that you're essentially

23:17

reducing a source of sugar in

23:20

the bite. So I would just

23:22

tell people if you notice when

23:24

you're wearing a continuous glucose monitor

23:26

that your blood sugar is lower

23:28

when drinking alcohol this is not

23:31

a good strategy. It's basically like

23:33

cheating. So but I would say

23:35

like I think what you're getting

23:37

at here is that when you're

23:39

eating a meal there's this concept

23:42

of meal sequencing which is What

23:44

order can you eat your foods

23:46

in to minimize the glucose spike?

23:48

And I think the best way

23:50

to think about it is we

23:53

want to eat our predominant carbohydrate

23:55

source foods later in the meal.

23:57

And the reason for that is

23:59

because if you if you start

24:01

with like ruffage and fiber like

24:04

a salad, you're basically putting this

24:06

like layer in the stomach and

24:08

the intestines that may literally actually

24:10

block some of your glucose absorption.

24:12

Fiber can not only, it is

24:15

not going to get absorbed as

24:17

glucose but can block some of

24:19

the glucose from going in later

24:21

in the meal. So that's like

24:23

big salad. ideally with a vinegar-based

24:26

dressing, which we'll talk about later,

24:28

vinegar as a strategy, and then

24:30

making sure you're also eating a

24:32

little bit of protein and fat

24:34

before the carbohydrates. So that could

24:37

be, you know, egg in your

24:39

salad or chicken in your salad

24:41

or you know, tofu, whatever it

24:43

is, something with some protein in

24:45

some fat, which is going to

24:48

slow digestion, it's going to make

24:50

you feel full, because so many

24:52

of our satietyy hormones are released

24:54

by cells. that are looking for

24:56

amino acids and protein to be

24:59

stimulated to make those satiety hormones.

25:01

And then with that fiber and

25:03

some fat and some protein in

25:05

the body, none of which are

25:08

gonna raise your blood sugar, then

25:10

having the carbohydrate, whether it's the

25:12

dessert or the pasta or the

25:14

rice, it's gonna likely have lower

25:16

glycemic impact because of all those

25:19

forces that you've put into the

25:21

body earlier. So that's food sequencing,

25:23

really starting with. greens and ruffage,

25:25

fiber, fat, protein, and then eating

25:27

your carbohydrates last. And I would

25:30

guess for many people, they're actually

25:32

going to eat fewer carbohydrates because

25:34

they're triggering those satiety mechanisms. Yeah,

25:36

that's a great point. I mean,

25:38

if you're eating salad with a

25:41

protein, for example, you might be

25:43

very, very full by the time,

25:45

you know, dessert or kind of

25:47

a carb heavy option would come

25:49

along. Yeah. So void. the bread

25:52

basket, for example. I mean, I

25:54

often just actually have a, my

25:56

kid sees me about this, but

25:58

I have like 20 little baggies

26:00

of walnuts just like. Everywhere in

26:03

bags and other things. And so

26:05

it's actually a great way to

26:07

get that little soluble fiber and

26:09

make that little lattice fence in

26:11

your small intestine and slow down

26:14

the absorption. Okay, so fiber and

26:16

sequencing. Let's see, and no naked

26:18

carbs. What else can we do

26:20

to sort of mitigate spikes? One

26:22

thing that is more of an

26:25

addition to the meal is you

26:27

can add vinegar or cinnamon to

26:29

meals and both of those have

26:31

an insulin sensitizing effect on the

26:33

body. I would say in the

26:36

like acute level like is it

26:38

gonna have an effect immediately the

26:40

vinegar is likely gonna be more

26:42

powerful than the cinnamon which I.

26:44

I think has more of like

26:47

a longer term effect, but the

26:49

vinegar can actually act very, very

26:51

quickly through several mechanisms. One, slowing,

26:53

gastric, stomach emptying. Two, it may

26:55

actually affect some of the enzymes,

26:58

our digestive enzymes on our gut

27:00

lining that break down sugar. So

27:02

you're may literally actually. break down

27:04

fewer sugars and absorb them, which

27:06

is like they might pass through

27:09

more Acetic acid has an impact

27:11

on these disaccharideases on the gut

27:13

lining and so that's kind of

27:15

cool The acetic acid that's the

27:17

compound and vinegar that makes it

27:20

tart Yeah, then also might have

27:22

actually just like insulin sensitizing effects

27:24

on ourselves. So all of that

27:26

can impact blood sugar levels. So

27:29

the way to really do that

27:31

is to take a vinegar and

27:33

essentially put it in water before

27:35

a meal and drink it 10,

27:37

20, 30 minutes before a meal,

27:40

let it kind of take its

27:42

effect. You could use apple cider

27:44

vinegar, you could use champagne vinegar.

27:46

What you really want to do

27:48

is just not use a vinegar

27:51

that has any sugar in it.

27:53

Because if you actually look at

27:55

the back of some bottles of

27:57

vinegar, there's some sugar. And then

27:59

I'll be honest. I don't find

28:02

myself often wanting to drink vinegar.

28:04

Some people really like the taste,

28:06

but what I've done is actually

28:08

just incorporate it more seamlessly into

28:10

my meals. So I make a

28:13

batch of a heavy vinegar-based dressing

28:15

every week, which is basically. a

28:17

third vinegar, a third olive oil, and a

28:19

third Dijan mustard, and I shake it in

28:21

a jar, and I put it on like

28:23

a lot of stuff. I dip, you know,

28:25

chicken in it, I put on salads, and

28:27

so I get my vinegar that way, and

28:29

then actually. in mocktails I'll use apple

28:31

cider vinegar or other like fancy

28:34

vinegars as part of the the

28:36

mocktail so it's kind of just

28:38

like coming into my drink right

28:40

before a meal so the data

28:42

is incredible when people do drink

28:44

vinegar before a meal it can

28:46

lower the glucose response by 30%

28:49

so it's actually quite pronounced and

28:51

probably an underutilized strategy so cool Hey,

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30:36

Let's talk about moving. This is

30:39

a pastime now that I'm like

30:41

completely addicted to. Essentially after every

30:44

meal, I'm doing something embarrassing for

30:46

my kids. So. If there is

30:48

one silver bullet in the glucose

30:51

lowering strategies, it is taking a

30:53

walk. after a meal. It's reproduced

30:56

in so many papers. If you

30:58

move your body soon after eating,

31:00

glucose spikes are lower and it

31:03

makes total sense. Even just standing

31:05

up and walking 50 feet. you're

31:07

activating a ton of big muscle

31:10

groups, your quads, your hamstrings, your

31:12

core, your psalius, and your calves.

31:15

Like just to get up and

31:17

walk, you're activating those muscles. And

31:19

as you do that, you start

31:22

that metabolic process of glucose channels

31:24

going to the membrane and the

31:27

body through muscle contractions starting the

31:29

process of taking up glucose. The

31:31

really the way I like to

31:34

think about it to motivate me

31:36

because it is so alluring sometimes

31:38

to just sit at that table

31:41

and then move straight to the

31:43

couch is that that short-term investment

31:46

five 10 minutes of doing any

31:48

type of movement after a meal

31:50

You're essentially activating all of this

31:53

metabolic processes and machinery to start

31:55

taking glucose out of the bloodstream

31:58

and just get it ready to

32:00

go get those channels of the

32:02

membrane. So it's really worthwhile, even

32:05

if it's very, very short. So

32:07

we're in our household love a

32:10

post meal walk just once around

32:12

the block, love a dish cleaning

32:14

dance party, you know, blast the

32:17

music, move around. few little squats

32:19

but something to get the muscles

32:21

contracting that's what's most important yeah

32:24

the dish cleaning the animated dish

32:26

cleaning can be quite a bit

32:29

of fun and then also your

32:31

kitchen's clean yeah yeah yeah yeah

32:33

you know and we do it

32:36

all the way through where we're

32:38

like drawing and putting away and

32:41

moving around and you know it's

32:43

just a it's a really great

32:45

pastime you know you throw some

32:48

squats in the middle of there

32:50

and and you know it can

32:52

be a fun it can be

32:55

great And in our levels data

32:57

set, we actually showed that people

33:00

who took a brief walk after

33:02

drinking high carbohydrate beverages had about

33:04

a 30% reduction in peak glucose

33:07

spike after the drink. And if

33:09

you think about that, like over

33:12

a lifetime, having a 30% reduction

33:14

in a peak glucose spike adds

33:16

up to a lot of decreased

33:19

exposure of your body to you

33:21

know, this sugar floating around and

33:23

it is going to lower the

33:26

amount likely the amount of insulin

33:28

you're going to have to pump

33:31

out to take up the rest

33:33

of that glucose because you're kind

33:35

of doing it through this other

33:38

mechanism of muscle contraction. So cool.

33:40

It's great. There have been some

33:43

really interesting studies around time restricted

33:45

eating. Well, in a lot of

33:47

different ways, even in calorie intake,

33:50

so it's like you can eat

33:52

the same amount of calories in

33:55

eight hours or spread it out

33:57

over 24 hours, and you're going

33:59

to actually metabolize those macronutrients very,

34:02

very differently. That seems to be.

34:04

also proving out with balanced glucose

34:06

levels, right? So can you explain

34:09

the relationship between kind of time

34:11

restricted eating and maintaining good blood

34:14

glucose balance? Yeah, yeah. So there's

34:16

been a research that has shown

34:18

that in two groups that are

34:21

eating the exact same food and

34:23

calories, if you eat that food

34:26

in a shorter window, like six

34:28

hours versus spreading out that intake

34:30

over 12 hours, over 12 hours.

34:33

the overall glucose dynamics are much

34:35

better in that more restricted window.

34:37

So like peak glucose, 24-hour glucose

34:40

averages. And so there's something about

34:42

the timing and the compression of

34:45

the eating that seems to have

34:47

a positive impact on our glucose

34:49

stability. And I would imagine that

34:52

part of the reason for this

34:54

is that by eating in a

34:57

shorter window, like that six to

34:59

eight hour window, you're giving your

35:01

body. all this time where it's

35:04

not exposed to glucose, it's not

35:06

spiking the insulin levels and you're

35:08

improving your insulin sensitivity because you're

35:11

giving your body the opportunity to

35:13

work through the glucose that came

35:16

in, process it, and then start

35:18

to lower insulin and tap into

35:20

fat burning. And so you're becoming

35:23

more metabolically flexible just by spacing

35:25

out the food over 12 hours.

35:28

totally different biology. Same calories different

35:30

biology. You're stimulating the glucose more

35:32

frequently. Your bloodstream is exposed to

35:35

glucose for a longer period of

35:37

time. And so this really gets

35:40

to how the how of eating

35:42

is really just as important as

35:44

the what of eating. And if

35:47

we can compress into reasonable time

35:49

frames, we can build that metabolic

35:51

flexibility. give our body a break

35:54

on insulin secretion, and kind of

35:56

get more bing for our buck

35:59

in terms of the actual calories

36:01

we're eating. There was a similar

36:03

set of research. that showed something

36:06

somewhat related, which was that if

36:08

you gave groups of people the

36:11

exact same meal in the morning

36:13

at 930 a.m. first in the

36:15

evening at 830 p.m. They had

36:18

a lower glucose response to it

36:20

at 930 a.m. than 830 p.m.

36:22

And this gets to what we

36:25

talked about in one of our

36:27

other episodes together, which is that

36:30

we become potentially more insulin resistant

36:32

resistant at night. in part because

36:34

of the impact of melatonin that's

36:37

released at night on our insulin

36:39

sensitivity. And so if we want

36:42

to be stabilizing our blood sugar,

36:44

which we all want to do,

36:46

kind of front loading those higher

36:49

carbohydrate meals when we're more insulin

36:51

sensitive, again, more bang for your

36:53

buck, less glucose spike for the

36:56

exact same meal. So I tend

36:58

to become a little bit more,

37:01

I would say like. keto as

37:03

the day goes on in a

37:05

way, because I know I can

37:08

process the carbohydrates better in the

37:10

morning both because of our circadian

37:13

biology, but also because I'm more

37:15

active at that time of day.

37:17

Yeah, absolutely. I will. It's not

37:20

that I carb load before a

37:22

workout necessarily, but that's the period

37:25

where I'm more act. to eat

37:27

more carbohydrates is when I know

37:29

I'm going to go and work

37:32

out and then generally earlier in

37:34

the day for me and I

37:36

think that seems to have pretty

37:39

decent results. I generally will not

37:41

start the day with a carb.

37:44

Boles, but I think you're absolutely

37:46

right. I think front loading the

37:48

day there. So let's go through

37:51

a few of them just to

37:53

recap and then I want to

37:56

talk about mindset. It goes beyond

37:58

just physiology and mechanism. So we

38:00

talked about no naked carbs. We

38:03

talked about sequencing. So don't eat

38:05

your carbs first, eat your fiber

38:07

and your proteins and your healthy

38:10

fats first. We talked about time

38:12

restriction. So getting all of those.

38:15

getting your food within a shorter

38:17

period window, let's say, and maybe

38:19

earlier in the day, right? We

38:22

talked about cinnamon and acetic acid

38:24

in vinegar. So that's about moving

38:27

our bodies post-prandially. So I like

38:29

to do like 30 push-ups or

38:31

I have like two or three

38:34

different pull-up bars in my house

38:36

now, but taking walks. But let's

38:38

talk about mindset. Because this is,

38:41

like I said, a little bit.

38:43

like more esoteric maybe. How should

38:46

we be approaching our consumption of

38:48

food? And what does that have

38:50

to do with glucose regulation? It

38:53

is so fascinating how the mindset

38:55

that we are in when we

38:58

sit down to a meal has

39:00

a direct impact on how we

39:02

metabolize that food and how much

39:05

of a glucose response we're going

39:07

to have to it. It's incredible.

39:10

And in studies with people with

39:12

type 2 diabetes, interventions where participants

39:14

ate mindfully, felt gratitude for their

39:17

meal, focused on a sense of

39:19

awe and tapped into the sensory

39:21

experience of the food, they had

39:24

significantly better. levels of blood sugar

39:26

and overall long-term glucose metrics. This

39:29

is outlined in a really wonderful

39:31

book called Whole Person Integrated Eating

39:33

that really goes into the details

39:36

about blood sugar, mindset, and type

39:38

2 diabetes that I recommend for

39:41

anyone listening who does have type

39:43

2 diabetes, but I think it

39:45

can be applied to all of

39:48

us. And it really comes down

39:50

to the fact that our cells

39:52

are hearing every thought in our

39:55

mind, by the way it's transmitted

39:57

through hormones and biochemistry and nerve

40:00

impulses, and digestion and the process

40:02

of metabolizing and absorbing and processing

40:04

food is such a complex orchestra

40:07

of hormones and neurobiology and microbial

40:09

work. And for it to work

40:12

properly for the body to receive

40:14

the food that's coming in and

40:16

process it properly, we want to

40:19

be in a parasympathetic nervous system

40:21

state, rest and digest the more

40:23

relaxed side of the nervous system.

40:26

But unfortunately for most Americans, that's

40:28

not the way we're eating. We

40:31

had talked earlier about the fact

40:33

that less than 35% of American

40:35

families are sitting down to eat

40:38

for two or more meals per

40:40

week. And so we're eating on

40:43

the go, we're eating a huge

40:45

percentage of our meals in the

40:47

car, we're speeding through food, we're

40:50

often watching sensationalist media or TV

40:52

while we're eating. And so this

40:55

is actually changing the way we're

40:57

absorbing. The second piece

40:59

of it is that we're just

41:02

eating way too fast in our

41:04

culture. And I am like the

41:06

biggest culprit of this, but the

41:09

data is actually quite clear that

41:11

the faster you eat, the more

41:14

metabolically unhealthy you tend to be.

41:16

So the data has shown in

41:18

two different studies that compared to

41:21

the people who eat the slowest,

41:23

the people who eat the fastest

41:26

have. four times higher rates of

41:28

metabolic syndrome and two times higher

41:30

rates of type two diabetes. And

41:33

that's just astonishing to me that

41:35

just slowing down is associated with

41:38

much less risk of these chronic

41:40

diseases. But it really makes sense

41:42

from the standpoint of how our

41:45

satiety hormones are triggered because if

41:47

we slow down these nutrient sensing

41:50

cells of the gut like the

41:52

L cells that produce G. They

41:54

have time to sense the nutrients

41:57

to create the intracellular cascade that

41:59

causes the release of GLP1. for

42:02

GLP1 to float around the body

42:04

and do its work to essentially

42:06

tell us that we're full and

42:09

we're satiated. You mean the body

42:11

is endogenously makes GLP1? Oh my

42:14

gosh I know. Well I thought

42:16

I had to get it in

42:18

a pill or an infusion. Oh

42:21

my gosh. The literature shows about

42:23

mindset in eating. What we can

42:26

do for better metabolic health from

42:28

the standpoint of mindset is sitting

42:30

down to eat our meals, eating

42:33

slowly, eating with trusting loving community,

42:35

expressing gratitude for our meals, tuning

42:38

into the sensory experience of eating

42:40

across all senses, and tapping into

42:42

a sense of awe. for the

42:45

food that we have. And so

42:47

those are things that all of

42:50

us that can do without even

42:52

changing what's on our plate. Yeah,

42:54

so good. Yeah, I was reading

42:57

that study on loneliness from BYU

42:59

that's often cited. And I think

43:02

in that study it said that

43:04

58% of people report eating every

43:06

single meal alone. And I had

43:09

to like triple take on it.

43:11

Because it's just that stat seems

43:14

so imponderable. But it's just crazy.

43:16

So I'm curious, do you have

43:18

a kind of pre-meal practice that

43:21

you employ or maybe a couple

43:23

different ones? Mm. Well, it's interesting

43:26

you say the thing about loneliness.

43:28

Like, when I was writing this

43:30

book, I sort of hold up

43:33

in Bend, Oregon, in a mountain

43:35

town where I shouldn't know that

43:38

many people. but it was kind

43:40

of a very like yin period

43:42

of my life. But one of

43:45

the things I found is that

43:47

I ate most of my meals

43:50

alone. And I could tell over

43:52

time that it was actually not

43:54

good for me. Like I was

43:57

feeling, it just something felt off

43:59

about that. And it's one of

44:02

the reasons I actually moved to

44:04

LA is because I was like,

44:06

it's based on the research and

44:09

my own experience. I actually need

44:11

to move towards a world in

44:14

which I can eat more frequently

44:16

with other people and so much

44:18

more in my community, like you

44:21

are here, and it's transformational. Like

44:23

I think sharing and breaking bread

44:26

and eating slower and having conversation

44:28

while eating. And so I would,

44:30

I share that because some, I

44:33

think part of it is knowing

44:35

that it actually does make a

44:38

difference. And then part of it

44:40

is just really finding ways to

44:42

shape your life, maybe a little

44:45

bit differently. to make these things

44:47

happen. So like reaching out to

44:50

friends and actually scheduling meals together,

44:52

which can sometimes, you know, be

44:54

hard, but really taking control of

44:57

our lives in this regard. And

44:59

then from the pre-meal habit perspective,

45:02

my partner and I, we usually

45:04

start our meals, we hold hands,

45:06

and we take a couple deep

45:09

breaths, and then one of us

45:11

will say like some type of

45:14

totally impromptu like grace or sort

45:16

of prayer. that really focuses on

45:18

gratitude for the food and all

45:21

of the forces and people that

45:23

had to conspire to really like

45:26

get that food on our plate

45:28

and Actually tuning into what that

45:30

food can do which is hopefully

45:33

to be Incorporated into our form

45:35

to create a body that can

45:38

spread more light and positivity in

45:40

the world and It's changed so

45:42

much for me about eating and

45:45

part of it is inspired by

45:47

researching for the book and then

45:50

part of it is just seeing

45:52

how much of a virtuous cycle

45:54

it is to start doing that

45:57

and realizing how it makes you

45:59

feel. and going from meal

46:02

times being something that you just

46:04

have to kind of like do

46:06

to get the calories to like

46:09

being the most joyful time of

46:11

the day. So yeah, how about

46:13

you? Do you have any pre-meal

46:15

rituals? We do, we do. And

46:17

I guess I should also say,

46:20

I think people can eat mindfully

46:22

and consciously, I suppose. But generally

46:24

when people are eating alone, what

46:26

I think. it's often correlated with

46:29

like staring at social media

46:31

or something that is otherwise triggering

46:33

and and pushing you into that

46:36

sympathetic state. So and there

46:38

are traditions that focus on actually

46:40

eating in silence and and that

46:43

that is actually a healthier

46:45

standpoint too so I don't think

46:47

there's one right way to do it what we

46:49

know is not the right way to

46:51

do it is to rush through meals

46:53

in a state of stress. So doing

46:55

things that keep you calm and connected

46:57

and parasympathetic is what's most important. We

46:59

also know that loneliness in our

47:01

modern world is killing us. And

47:04

so literally and causing actually

47:06

mitochondrial dysfunction. So I think

47:08

it's that piece plus the

47:10

parasympathetic that's important here. But

47:12

like you said, it's not just

47:14

about eating alone, which you know. That

47:16

might work for some people. It's about

47:18

what our nervous system is doing and

47:21

how it's receiving the food. Like scarfing

47:23

down a big Mac while you're in

47:25

traffic on the 101. Not a great

47:27

idea. No. You know, we began to

47:29

institute this tradition that had nothing to

47:31

do with metabolic health at the beginning,

47:33

but little did I know that it

47:35

also helped to balance my blood sugar

47:37

levels. And I've talked about it on

47:39

the show, maybe in the past, but

47:42

probably not for some time. It's just

47:44

called Rosebud thorn thorn. I think we've

47:46

probably done it around a table together,

47:48

but it's a great one for my

47:51

kids. It's essentially, you know, you share

47:53

your thorn, which is the most challenging

47:55

part of your day or week, the

47:57

bud, which is the part of your

47:59

life. that might have the

48:01

most potential, it's budding, right?

48:04

And then the rose, which

48:06

was the most perfumed, wonderful

48:08

part of the day or

48:10

the week. And, you know,

48:13

we go around the table.

48:15

We don't always make it

48:17

around the table because it's

48:20

really just a thought starter

48:22

or a conversation starter. And

48:24

it opens up the doors

48:26

into these wonderful conversations. And

48:29

we linger around the table.

48:31

And the byproduct of that

48:33

is just eating very slowly.

48:36

So it has metabolic impacts

48:38

that are positive, apparently. And

48:40

of course, there's another component

48:42

to it that's more psychosocial.

48:45

But these are amazing tips.

48:47

And there's every reason. to

48:49

manage our blood sugar levels.

48:52

And many of these habits

48:54

or tips are well within

48:56

our grasp. And you don't

48:58

really have to sacrifice the

49:01

quality of your life very

49:03

much to institute them. So

49:05

thank you so much for

49:08

doing all the hard work,

49:10

doing all the research and

49:12

bringing them to us. Thank

49:14

you, Jeff. Thank

49:28

you so much for listening

49:30

to my conversation with Dr.

49:33

Casey Means. If you want

49:35

even more Casey, well check

49:38

out her communion course titled

49:40

Optimize your metabolism for simple

49:42

science-backed steps to feeling your

49:45

best. You can watch the

49:47

first four days of that

49:50

course for free at one

49:52

commune.com/metabolism. Lastly, but not least

49:55

please consider leaving a review

49:57

and subscribing to this podcast.

50:00

It really helps with the

50:02

discoverability. of the show and

50:05

my team puts their full

50:07

shit. shoulder into it. Okay,

50:10

that's all from the commune

50:12

for today. My name is

50:14

Jeff Krasnow and I am

50:17

here for you. Hey, it's

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