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let's get started. Hey

1:42

Stephanie, welcome to koko.com/call

1:45

Conan. Okay, let's get

1:47

started. Hey Stephanie, welcome

1:49

to Kono O'Brien. Hi, how

1:51

are you? How are you,

1:53

Stephanie? Great. This is funny.

1:55

So weird, absolutely nothing funny as happen

1:58

so far. So you have a very

2:00

low bar for funny. I do, it's

2:02

been a tough week, so I'll tell

2:05

I, yes, the lowest of bars. Oh,

2:07

I'm sorry it's been a tough week.

2:09

Anything the matter? No, my kids have

2:12

just been home from daycare with the

2:14

flu. Oh, okay. And when the kids,

2:16

yes. Yeah, it's tough when they're kids

2:19

around and you don't really love them.

2:21

I know. I know, I had agency

2:23

in that decision, but I didn't have

2:26

to have to be around them all

2:28

the all the all the all the

2:30

time. It's tough even when you adore

2:33

your children. It's tough when they're constantly

2:35

around. It's more the job, but yeah.

2:37

We're getting a little, I'm just going

2:39

to check in a little bit, is

2:42

that a little bit of feedback? Feedback,

2:44

would that be? Let's just do a

2:46

quick test. Stephanie, let's do a quick

2:49

back and forth. How are you? How

2:51

are you? Love and Life. How are

2:53

you? What's your astrolological sign? Appricorn, Leo

2:56

Rising, Gemini Moon. Oh, Jesus Christ. She

2:58

was ready. I don't understand. Yeah, I'm

3:00

a real scientist, though, too. I thought,

3:03

wait a minute, I thought people just

3:05

gave one answer when they gave their

3:07

actual sign. That's not the whole picture.

3:10

All right. I'm just in areas. I'm

3:12

just in areas. I'm not in areas.

3:14

There's no moon rising. There's no ram

3:16

jumping in all. You just might not

3:19

know it. There is. I've looked into

3:21

it. Just areas. Stephanie. Yeah, I'm in

3:23

Richmond. Do you want me to get

3:26

recorded? We're still doing it back. No,

3:28

no, no, you don't have to hear

3:30

recorded. We can proceed just like this.

3:33

Thanks for us. Yeah, yeah, I'm in

3:35

Richmond, Virginia. Yeah, why did you make,

3:37

you went like, uh, Richmond, Virginia? Yeah,

3:40

I mean, Virginia is a beautiful state.

3:42

Yeah, it is. I'm not from here.

3:44

I miss your... Wow, so you don't

3:47

work for the tourism board, do you,

3:49

do you, do you? I don't work

3:51

for the tourism board, do you, do

3:53

you, do you, do you, do you?

3:56

I, I don't, I don't, I? I

3:58

will complain about the bugs and the

4:00

humidity and the heat and their inability

4:03

to deal with snow and all of

4:05

that. Okay, well, I'm going to move

4:07

on to more pleasant topics, so the

4:10

fact that you hate... in Richmond, Virginia.

4:12

People know it. What do you, yeah,

4:14

it's that t-shirt you wear. I hate

4:17

Richmond. Yeah, they know. They say Virginia's

4:19

for lovers, and yet they have a

4:21

hater living right in the center. Stephanie.

4:24

In the Capitol. You, I see here

4:26

that you're a geography professor, is that

4:28

correct? That is fully correct, yeah. Okay.

4:30

This is not a police interview. You're

4:33

allowed to elaborate. Yes, I am a

4:35

geography professor. That is my job. Okay,

4:37

and how did you get into that?

4:40

I mean, how does one become a

4:42

geography professor? Yeah, as an undergrad, I

4:44

checked off a box. It's that I

4:47

was to travel so that I... Got

4:49

into this geology program, and that's not

4:51

geography. Geology is rocks. Geography is people

4:54

in places. You're talking me like I'm

4:56

an idiot. I don't know. People know.

4:58

Do you know? Yes, I know. The

5:01

difference between geology and geography. I know,

5:03

but it's more than maps. The listeners

5:05

might not all know. If it listen,

5:07

if you're a listener right now and

5:10

you don't know that geology is rocks,

5:12

never listen to this podcast again. You

5:14

are banished. And that includes you, David,

5:17

because you seem genuinely confused. So Stephanie,

5:19

you studied geology and then you said,

5:21

you know what? I'm going to move

5:24

in geography. Geography. So what is it

5:26

you do now? What is it you're

5:28

studying? Yeah, I study a lot of

5:31

different things, but I mainly use satellite

5:33

data to understand changes in the landscape.

5:35

So one of the things I, yeah,

5:38

I can, I feel like I'm lecturing,

5:40

one of the things I study is

5:42

how climate change is affecting the timing

5:44

of fall foliage in Maine, because I

5:47

love Maine. Another thing I

5:49

study is how deforestation in Brazil

5:51

is affecting the regional climate there.

5:53

I think about that in the

5:55

Southwestern Amazon. I do stuff locally

5:57

in central Virginia that I love.

5:59

I used drones to help map

6:01

historically black cemeteries that haven't been

6:03

funded. I do a lot of

6:05

different things. First of all, I'm

6:07

going to cut you off and

6:09

say this is all very cool

6:11

stuff and very valuable stuff. This

6:13

is important work. You know, it's...

6:15

forefront in our minds now obviously

6:18

I mean climate change has been

6:20

for a long time but we

6:22

live here in Los Angeles and

6:24

we're seeing the effects of terrible

6:26

effects of a hundred mile an

6:28

hour Santa Anas and and a

6:30

lot of homes lost in a

6:32

bad fire and we're wondering Clearly

6:34

things are changing and and I

6:36

think everyone's almost everybody I shouldn't

6:38

say everybody but I think almost

6:40

everybody is Slowly getting to the

6:42

reality that there is climate change

6:44

What advice do you have for

6:46

for example? There's just so much

6:48

anxiety about it. My wife has

6:50

anxiety about it. Yeah, I have

6:52

two children that have anxiety about

6:54

it and I sometimes want to

6:56

be the voice of Things will

6:58

be OK. We'll figure this out.

7:00

But then I sound like, you

7:02

know, very Pollyanna. I can sound

7:04

like a moron. What's your take

7:06

on this? Is there a way

7:09

that we can be positive or

7:11

talk to people about who are

7:13

anxious on this? Yeah. Who are

7:15

anxious on this? Yeah. Is there

7:17

a way that we can be

7:19

positive or talk to people about

7:21

who are anxious on this subject?

7:23

That was like an act of

7:25

radical hope in society that we

7:27

would kind of figure this out.

7:29

I think just getting outside and

7:31

breathing and taking a walk and

7:33

connecting with nature, that's what I

7:35

do, if I'm getting overwhelmed. I

7:37

think you can be overwhelmed, but

7:39

you can't let it, you can't

7:41

let it take over you, right?

7:43

And you find, you just like,

7:45

find faith in your community, you're

7:47

like, you just like, find faith

7:49

in your community, like you find,

7:51

like you find, what you find,

7:53

you just like, find faith in

7:55

your community, like you find, like

7:57

you find, you find, find, find

7:59

faith in your community, in your

8:02

community, allowing yourself to feel feelings

8:04

because you're cut. It would, to

8:06

me, I think we all should

8:08

be feeling our feelings a little

8:10

more. Yeah, that's very good advice.

8:12

That's very good advice. And then

8:14

just getting an outside. I should

8:16

tell you I drive a 12-cylinder

8:18

car and I eat seven burgers

8:20

a day. All your private flights?

8:22

I took a private... That's not

8:24

probably great for your arteries. No,

8:26

it's terrible. They keep trying to

8:28

get me to stop, but I

8:30

can't hear them over the reving

8:32

of my 12 cylinder. And it

8:34

runs on Rainforest Wood that just

8:36

I... Oh my God, the mahogonies.

8:38

Yeah, I mean, it's the best

8:40

wood. I'm trying in my small

8:42

ways to do my part. It

8:44

can all feel so overwhelming. Yes.

8:46

And I also, my son gets

8:48

really mad when I say this,

8:50

because my son's a very... He's

8:52

into STEM and science tech and

8:55

all that and he and I'll

8:57

say to him look we all

8:59

we humans have to change their

9:01

behavior but I'm also hoping that

9:03

science comes up with some answers

9:05

and he gets mad that I'm

9:07

just putting it off on science

9:09

like don't worry science will fix

9:11

it because that can sound I

9:13

think irresponsible but I do think

9:15

science is going to have to

9:17

come into the equation because I

9:19

have my doubts that China India

9:21

the United States, Russia, and I'm

9:23

including us, trust me, are all

9:25

gonna say, you know what, we

9:27

gotta change our ways. Yes, I

9:29

agree. I think it's not worth

9:31

it feeling guilty because like you're

9:33

not Exxon, you're not the US,

9:35

you're not BP, you're not the

9:37

people who lied to. people for

9:39

centuries about what harm this would

9:41

you. So it's not worth feeling

9:43

guilty, but I think you can

9:45

look for the good stories. A

9:48

negative headline gets 10 more clicks

9:50

than a positive one. So the

9:52

people are always going to write

9:54

negative headlines. There are some really

9:56

cool climate resiliency things around. Some

9:58

cities are planting more trees. Trees

10:00

are really great for cooling down

10:02

cities. LA I think painted some

10:04

pavements white for a while because

10:06

like dark surfaces trap a lot

10:08

of heat. There are small scale

10:10

changes that a lot of cities

10:12

in the US, in particular, are

10:14

making. And yeah, I think it's

10:16

going to be a mix of

10:18

science and everyone realizing that these

10:20

disasters that we keep having cost

10:22

so much money, so it would

10:24

actually be cheaper if we start

10:26

actually investing in climate change solutions

10:28

in Brazil. I think insurance companies

10:30

in LA are going to start

10:32

investing in climate change technology because,

10:34

you know, and you're going to

10:36

see, I mean, unfortunately. At a

10:39

certain point it takes, I hate

10:41

to say it, but it does,

10:43

once you start hurting big business's

10:45

pocketbook, that's when they pay attention

10:47

and they see, they see religion.

10:49

I know, I'm so sorry, this

10:51

is the most depressing. conversation you've

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probably ever had. No, first of

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all, no. I just talked to

10:57

my staff 10 minutes ago and

10:59

that was much more depressing. Real

11:01

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11:03

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11:05

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11:09

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feel badly about something, feel badly

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about thinking that I didn't

16:53

understand the difference between geology

16:55

and geography and geography. I

16:57

just think we don't have geography

16:59

in many schools. So I just

17:01

am used to, it's a battle

17:03

I've been fighting for years. Do

17:05

you feel that people have lost touch

17:08

with the outside world, that we're all

17:10

on our screens, that we've lost touch

17:12

with nature? I think everyone should

17:14

just get out more and breathe

17:16

more oxygen and stop looking at your

17:18

phones more. Yeah, I mean, as a,

17:20

it's weird, there's an onion how to

17:23

lend like. 15 years ago was like

17:25

humans look at glowing rectangles all day

17:27

and I was like oh it's all

17:29

I got worse yeah I think everyone

17:31

should just talk to more people and

17:33

go outside and look at a tree

17:36

and be like wow how long's that

17:38

tree been there yeah I have an

17:40

I have an app on my phone

17:42

called nature and I just click it

17:44

shows me pictures of nature and it

17:46

calms me and then you know every

17:48

every 15 seconds there's an ad usually

17:50

usually for a porn site And then

17:52

the porn sites are great. And sometimes

17:54

they're, and I'll be honest with you,

17:56

Stephanie, sometimes they're outside. What if you take

17:58

your phone and you watch your porn outside? though.

18:00

Is that work? That's fine too, but

18:02

I'm just encouraging more outdoor porn. It's

18:04

always in a indoor facility in the

18:07

valley and I'm thinking there should be

18:09

more porn that's shot outside. What's wrong

18:11

with that? And I think it's because

18:14

of splinters. I think that's the

18:16

big thing that's getting in the

18:18

way. People are like, you know, I'm going

18:20

to get hurt, splinter, if I get in

18:22

that position on top of that redwood. So

18:25

my point is... And I don't really

18:27

think I have a point. I

18:29

just say that sometimes when I

18:32

know where I'm going. Stephanie, I

18:34

think you're right, we got to

18:37

get outside and we got to

18:39

also know what nature is. I

18:41

think, I mean, there are people

18:44

that don't know that the sun

18:46

rises in the east and sets

18:49

in the west. They don't know

18:51

that, you know, they don't know

18:53

what's edible, and what's not. Now

18:56

the problem is I don't record it,

18:58

I don't write it in and down,

19:00

I just start stuffing berries and leaves

19:02

into my mouth. And then I have

19:04

a very powerful diarrhea. Sometimes violent vomiting.

19:06

And so that's a mistake. I think

19:08

I'm probably going out of the wrong

19:10

way. You're employing the scientific method

19:12

on your own. Yeah, but I'm not recording.

19:14

A big part of the scientific method is

19:17

record the data. I don't do that. Every

19:19

time I go to the emergency room, they

19:21

say, what did you eat? And I say,

19:23

I don't know. I don't know. Something. And

19:26

then they, you know. Yeah, but they usually

19:28

do a. biopsy on what's in my stomach

19:30

and find out that you ate a piece

19:32

of a fire hydrant. A lot of people

19:34

don't know why we have seasons. That's

19:37

the question that my students get

19:39

wrong all of the time. Why we

19:41

have seasons? Why we have seasons. Yeah,

19:43

yeah, yeah. Could you explain to us

19:45

why we have seasons? I know, but

19:48

I want to make sure that our... You

19:50

went to Harvard. Why do we

19:52

have seasons? I did not go

19:54

to Harvard College. I went to

19:56

Harvard driving school. That's a common

19:58

mis-separation. Well, I mean... The tilt of

20:00

the earth has a lot to do with it.

20:02

Yeah, nice job. Okay, great. A lot

20:05

of people think distance from the sun,

20:07

and that's not. We're actually closer to

20:09

the sun during the winter. Yeah, but

20:11

of course, the angle of the earth

20:13

tilts us farther away from the sun.

20:15

But I don't like to brag about

20:17

my own knowledge. I'm so proud of

20:19

me for knowing that the earth tilts

20:21

every now and then. and then I

20:24

know what a rock is. Stephanie... And

20:26

a tree maybe sometimes. My bar is low,

20:28

I don't know. No, you seem fine. And

20:30

your life, you said you have kids? I

20:32

have two kids of a two-year-old

20:34

and a four-year-old and they're

20:37

pretty feral and my oldest

20:39

is a budding mycologist. He

20:41

loves mushrooms. We always go mushroom hunting,

20:43

but he has a book and he

20:45

does record. What we and he doesn't

20:47

eat it. We don't let him eat

20:49

the mushrooms. Oh, the responsible parent. That's

20:51

great. He's four years old and he's

20:54

learning the difference between, you know, the

20:56

safe and the dangerous mushrooms. Yeah, we

20:58

have like a little mushroom fan club book.

21:00

He's really into muscle. He's got a

21:02

mushroom fan club book. Listen, he's gonna

21:04

be bullied. You know that right? I

21:06

know. You're not the first. No, no,

21:08

no, but I just want to make

21:10

sure that he learns that he learns

21:12

self-self-self-self-defense. Because David here was in a

21:15

Mushroom Fan Club. Yeah, things did not

21:17

go well for me. No, no, no.

21:19

They were constantly smashing his glasses. Yeah,

21:21

it was awful. Yeah, and then he came

21:23

to work for me and I smashed his

21:25

glasses. Yeah, I never. But I think

21:28

it's great. I, I applaud young people

21:30

being passionate about knowledge. And I think

21:32

that's a great thing. I think that's

21:34

really cool. We make sure we get

21:36

our kids outside. Yeah. And who's we?

21:38

Who's your partner? My husband Chris

21:40

who's a delight. Okay, I can't tell

21:43

if you're being sarcastic or not. No,

21:45

he's the best. He's actually the best.

21:47

Okay, because when my wife says, Conan's a delight,

21:49

it means she wants me dead. No, no, no,

21:51

no. He's great. He's with my two kids

21:53

right now. We're homesick from school. What is

21:55

he doing? He's a behavior analyst and what

21:58

he does. He's the most patient man. on

22:00

earth so he spends his day

22:02

is trying to help adults with

22:04

disabilities just like successfully walk through

22:06

the world great good I mean

22:08

I think you too are killing

22:10

it good for him thanks yeah

22:13

good for him yeah seriously I

22:15

mean I'm constantly surrounding show business

22:17

I'm surrounded by people that are

22:19

just out for themselves trying to

22:21

advance their own career I mean

22:23

I've never done that I've taken

22:25

my work very hard to drive

22:28

mine into the gutter but But

22:30

I think it's amazing. You sound

22:32

like both of you are working

22:34

hard to make the world a

22:36

better place. Do you two get

22:38

along? Sounds like you get along

22:40

pretty well. Does he ever use

22:42

his behavioral techniques on you? Yeah,

22:45

100% all the time. Whenever we're

22:47

arguing, a snack will appear out

22:49

of nowhere and I fully know

22:51

what he's doing and I will

22:53

take the snack and it doesn't

22:55

matter. Wait a minute. Well, if

22:57

you're fighting with your husband and

23:00

arguing, he'll pop a snack into

23:02

your mouth. He'll just, well, he

23:04

won't pop it in his mouth

23:06

because it's a little much, but

23:08

he'll be like, are you hungry?

23:10

Do you want this thing over

23:12

here? And I'll be like, yeah,

23:15

I want that thing, but also.

23:17

Jesus, it's called a Scooby snack.

23:19

That's, okay, well, I guess, I

23:21

mean, that's, that's, uh, has he

23:23

ever tried to lead you through

23:25

a maze with a snack? Not

23:27

yet. Okay, that's good. I just

23:30

picture. We have been orienturing together,

23:32

but. And the snacks were more

23:34

for like myself preservation. Orienteering is

23:36

when you run through the woods

23:38

and you have a compass and

23:40

you have, are you allowed to

23:42

have a map with you when

23:45

you're orienteering? You have a map

23:47

because the map has checkpoints, but

23:49

it's not like your phone and

23:51

just a compass and you have

23:53

to figure out how to get

23:55

where you're going. Yeah. She got

23:57

out of that relationship with a

24:00

compass and a map. Stephanie, how

24:02

can I help you? Is there

24:04

anything I can do to help

24:06

you? Because a big part of...

24:08

my life is trying to help

24:10

others. You've described that so well

24:12

before. Yeah, I was right. So

24:15

I have these two little kiddos

24:17

who are two and four, two

24:19

boys, and they just are wild.

24:21

And I was just wondering what

24:23

the best parenting advice you've ever

24:25

received was and maybe how I

24:27

can bring them into my daily

24:30

life to not get so overwhelmed.

24:32

Do you have duct tape? Yeah.

24:34

Duck tape is, yeah, get the

24:36

really strong electrical kind. It doesn't

24:38

break. And you tell them it's

24:40

a fun game called, sit still,

24:42

you just duct tape them to

24:44

something. I don't, you know, it's

24:47

a, it's a tricky one, because

24:49

all kids are different. And so,

24:51

how to get, are you trying

24:53

to say how to, you want

24:55

me to help you parent these

24:57

two, you've described them as feral

24:59

children that are running around the

25:02

woods, grabbing mushrooms and stuffing them

25:04

in their mouths. Yeah, and they

25:06

grab our chickens and yeah. Another

25:08

reason Central Virginia is bad is

25:10

there have been a misnakes here

25:12

and there aren't back where I'm

25:14

from New England. So yeah, how

25:17

do I know? Hey, where are

25:19

you from in New England? From

25:21

Brockton, Massachusetts. You're kidding, you buried

25:23

the lead, I'm from Brookline, Massachusetts.

25:25

I surprisingly know that. Yeah, I

25:27

played Brookline High and Sports Lux.

25:29

Yeah, what sport? Golf, because I

25:32

played golf to get out or

25:34

running the mile in Jim class.

25:36

I respect that. Wait, to get

25:38

out of running the mile. You

25:40

played a varsity sport, you didn't

25:42

have to run the mile. And

25:44

I was like, I can do

25:47

that. I love this. So stupid.

25:49

I wanted to be a sprinter

25:51

and I tried out for the

25:53

Brookline High School track team and

25:55

they made me a two-miler. So

25:57

I ran the two-mile. Oh, that

25:59

sucks. Yeah, and they made me

26:02

swing a golf club as I

26:04

ran. For no reason. It just

26:06

looked funny. my days on the

26:08

track team at Brooklyn High School.

26:10

It wasn't anything Brooklyn High School

26:12

did. It's just that I had

26:14

the lungs of a two-year-old child.

26:17

when I was in high school,

26:19

and it was not a fun

26:21

experience. I don't think I was

26:23

a good owner. I'm not built

26:25

to run either, which is why

26:27

I tried to golf it out.

26:29

Yeah, well, you're from Brockton and

26:32

you've made your way to a

26:34

play, even though you study maps

26:36

and your specialty is where things

26:38

are in the world, you have

26:40

moved to a place you seem

26:42

to despise. There! Get out! It's

26:44

so buggy! Go! What's keeping you

26:46

there? Academia, the whole hierarchy, it's

26:49

so, it's so hard. They have

26:51

schools other places? I know, but

26:53

they have to want me too.

26:55

I, I, yeah, you're right, they

26:57

have schools other places. I have,

26:59

yeah. I don't know what to

27:01

say. I've applied. I love my

27:04

job here from 600 miles north.

27:06

I would never leave. You know

27:08

what I love? I can't wait

27:10

until word gets out and it

27:12

will because this is a popular

27:14

podcast. Stephanie. that you were pleading

27:16

with a way to escape and

27:19

that you're desperately sending out applications

27:21

to other schools. I go up

27:23

for 10 years? You're up for

27:25

10 years? Not anymore! Not anymore!

27:27

You're going to be eating mushrooms

27:29

day in and day out! You're

27:31

going to be living in the

27:34

woods with a compass! I love

27:36

it here! I love it here

27:38

on the ninth level of Dante's

27:40

hell! Oh, Stephanie. People here know

27:42

how I feel about Richmond. Sure,

27:44

they do. They do now. They

27:46

do now. Well, listen, yeah. Well,

27:49

listen, I hope I've helped you.

27:51

I think I've helped you move

27:53

out of that job. And once

27:55

you're homeless, you'll have to move

27:57

on. And you can move back

27:59

to Brockton. Yep. Yeah. I guess

28:01

I would go somewhere around north

28:04

or north of Boston. I can't

28:06

afford that. No one can afford

28:08

that. What are you talking about?

28:10

First of all, it doesn't sound

28:12

like, I mean, your children can

28:14

feed themselves. They sound pretty much

28:16

like wildbeats. So they don't need

28:19

clothing. These two monsters, yeah, they'll

28:21

just be... You'll just have them

28:23

on long ropes. And you and

28:25

your husband will be walking around

28:27

the woods and you'll be saying,

28:29

look a tree! Isn't it crazy?

28:31

And your husband will give you

28:33

a snack to change the topic.

28:36

Well, perfect. What a perfect life

28:38

you've just envisioned. I love it

28:40

here. Yeah, too late, Stephanie. I

28:42

know. Listen, it's been really nice

28:44

talking to you. And why don't

28:46

you check in with us and

28:48

tell us what your new city

28:51

and new profession is in about

28:53

six weeks. It's too

28:55

late Stephanie. You did

28:57

this to yourself. And

28:59

you know what? This

29:01

was a cry for

29:03

help. You didn't, don't

29:05

worry about it. Yeah,

29:07

I actually didn't have

29:09

a question about parenting

29:11

is how do I

29:13

get out of this

29:16

job that I do

29:18

like, so I just

29:20

didn't place I don't

29:22

like. Too late, you're

29:24

just digging the hole

29:26

deeper and deeper. And

29:28

as you know from

29:30

geography and geology, if

29:32

you dig deep enough,

29:34

you'll end up in

29:36

China. Those monsters! Close

29:38

enough! All right, take

29:40

care of you and

29:42

Craig. Bye, bye. Supervising

29:46

producer Aaron Blair, associate talent

29:48

producer Jennifer Samples, associate producers

29:50

Sean Doherty, and Lisa Burm.

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Engineering by Eduardo Perez, get

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