0:00

From Relay, this is

0:02

connected, episode 527. Today's

0:04

show is brought to

0:06

you by ECAM, Squarespace

0:08

and Smaller World. I'm

0:10

one of your co-hosts,

0:13

Federico Vitici, and it's

0:15

my pleasure to introduce

0:18

Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello,

0:20

Stephen. Hello, Federico, how

0:22

are you? I'm good. I'm good. How

0:24

are you? I am good. It's raining,

0:26

kind of like a dark, cool, rainy

0:28

day here, which is fun. But what's

0:30

more fun is being joined by

0:33

our very own Ricky Benchman, Mike

0:35

Hurley. Hi, I'm Ricky Benchman,

0:37

Mike Hurley, and I'm here today to

0:39

try and get you to buy a

0:41

t-shirt. Would you like to look good

0:43

for the holidays? Well, let me

0:45

tell you. The Relay FM. Unrap

0:47

the gift of Podcast of

0:49

Podcast holiday t-shirt is available

0:52

once again. What's it going to

0:54

take to get you in one of these

0:56

t-shirts today? Go to a really none of

0:59

them slash store. I will buy one, okay.

1:01

And you can get one for your very

1:03

self, or there's also a link in the

1:05

shownuts. Also on this store is a

1:07

really weird collection of merchandise called

1:10

happy merchandise, which is an artist's

1:12

interpretation of me in a ball

1:15

pit. from the Podcast Authority. These

1:17

are all available to you at

1:19

Relay.fm slash store. I'm using, I'm

1:22

making lots of hand gestures right

1:24

now to like try and

1:26

invite people to buy, but they

1:28

can't see them. It's too bad. But

1:30

what's it going to take? You

1:33

know? Nothing, just a bit of

1:35

money. Okay, that's what it's going

1:37

to take. Go get one for

1:39

yourself. Stephen did I do a

1:41

good job. Pretty good. I put your

1:43

face on a... cups and a phone case.

1:45

I went wild the other day. Yeah, well,

1:47

you know, as I told you,

1:50

or flying that artwork costs a

1:52

lot of money, so you gotta

1:54

try and make it back somehow.

1:56

I was shocked. It's very expensive.

1:58

People, if they are members... which

2:00

you should be, you get connected

2:03

pro, longer, ad-free version of the

2:05

show each week. One member perk

2:07

is this membership podcast that you

2:09

and I do called Backstage, and

2:11

I did the merch live on

2:13

backstage, and it's pretty funny. Okay,

2:16

follow up. Mike, tell us about

2:18

VisionOS2 and keyboards and what's going

2:20

on here. So this is some

2:22

long-term follow-up. So we have spent

2:24

time in the past talking about

2:26

the mokibo keyboard, which is the

2:29

keyboard that you can kind of

2:31

rub your fingers across the keys

2:33

and use it as a mouse.

2:35

We originally called it a sketchy

2:37

keyboard and got lots of feedback

2:39

from people who have used it

2:42

and say that it does work

2:44

Well, what is even further if

2:46

you will the keyboard truth is

2:48

out there? What is even further

2:50

back follow-up? This was a post

2:52

on Mastodon by Chaos Tian who

2:55

was the person who designed the

2:57

3D printed case and also created

2:59

some of the spec files for

3:01

how to extract a touch ID

3:03

button from a magic keyboard and

3:05

put them into that little case

3:07

things. Okay, I just did that.

3:10

Anyway, they said, after Vision OS

3:12

2 enabling mouse support, which was

3:14

a thing I did not remember

3:16

it happened, the Mokeba fusion seems

3:18

to work pretty well with the

3:20

Vision Pro as a portable keyboard

3:23

slash occasional trackpad for high precision

3:25

selection. So, you know, there you

3:27

go. I ordered one

3:29

from their Indiegogo page which seemed

3:31

a bit more legit. The thing

3:34

is I ordered one from their

3:36

Indiegogo page which seemed a bit

3:38

more legit. The thing is I

3:41

ordered one from their Indiegogo profile

3:43

four days ago and then I

3:45

got no confirmation whatsoever. Are they

3:48

even considering shipping the unit? It's

3:50

unclear. Right now. I got the

3:52

receipt from Indigogo. Yeah. But that

3:55

was it. That was it. Really?

3:57

That was it. They have concepts

3:59

of a plan for shipping that

4:02

thing to you. Yes, yes. They

4:04

have that. I don't understand. So

4:06

with Indigogo, you can just buy

4:08

stuff? Like it's not like... I

4:11

will let you know if it

4:13

works. Yeah, I mean, the answer

4:15

is we'll see, I guess. In

4:18

the past, I have used Indigogo

4:20

to... It's weird because it's like

4:22

you think of it as a

4:25

Kickstarter, but like it's like a

4:27

Kickstarter that keeps going after the

4:29

fact. Yeah, it's weird. I have

4:32

bought and received like an eGPU

4:34

and a handheld from Indigogo from

4:36

two separate quote-on-quote campaigns after they

4:39

were over. So it's like the

4:41

campaign stays up and you can

4:43

continue purchasing the item, but it's

4:46

all very unclear to be fair.

4:48

Indi-go-go, no offense to Indi-go-go. But

4:50

like I get like a weird

4:53

fuck. Like why did you not

4:55

do Kickstarter? You know, like, because

4:57

I've seen lots of Indi-go-go campaigns

5:00

for things that have been kicked

5:02

off of Kickstarter and they go

5:04

to Indi-go. And there's just like

5:07

a thing of like, oh, why

5:09

are we here? Like, why did

5:11

we choose Indi-go-go as the starting

5:14

point, you know? I don't know.

5:16

Yeah, it's, yeah, I don't know,

5:18

I don't know. I'll let you

5:21

know, if it ever shows up,

5:23

we'll see, no clue. But it

5:25

looks, it looks interesting, and it

5:27

seems like there's a version too

5:30

of the Mokibo fusion, which is

5:32

what I ordered, should be compatible

5:34

with both VisionOS and IPADOS. So,

5:37

we'll see, maybe at some point

5:39

it'll show up. The next time

5:41

a follow-up that I just read

5:44

in our document that I just

5:46

read in our document made me,

5:48

I had to really sit and

5:51

think about this for a second,

5:53

where it, I mean we're in

5:55

like a James Bond movie and

5:58

someone is trying to get... like

6:00

some documents to us, it says,

6:02

the marble is still in the van.

6:05

And like, I've worked it out now,

6:07

but it took a minute for me to

6:09

work out what this was in reference

6:11

to. It's like the crow flies

6:13

at night or something. That's right.

6:16

We spoke about this on what, uh,

6:18

how I spent some of my time,

6:20

my sabbatical. We think there was a

6:22

marble loose somewhere in our minivan that

6:24

you would only hear every once in

6:26

a while and I put a picture

6:28

in discord. I took the seats out

6:30

of the van, pulled a bunch of

6:32

carbon back. I thought I had fixed

6:35

it. I found this like piece of

6:37

plastic. I didn't hear it anymore. But

6:39

my wife, this is a direct copy

6:41

and paste from eye message. Yesterday, Mary

6:43

texted me and all it said was the

6:46

marble was still in the van. So I

6:48

failed. Honestly, I'm probably going to

6:50

take another month off just to process.

6:52

I was going to say, you got

6:54

to go back now. You did not

6:56

complete the sabbatical. Yeah? You got to

6:58

go back and do it. I know.

7:00

I know. I don't, I mean, the

7:02

next step is like truly disassembling this

7:04

vehicle, and I just, it seems like a

7:06

lot. I'm going to tell you something

7:08

now, right? You can do whatever

7:10

you want with this. Trade car, right?

7:13

I feel like I need to

7:15

tell you. No, I feel like

7:17

I need to me that. You are

7:19

an incredibly skilled individual. I've seen

7:21

you do things in like two things

7:23

and I'm like, wow, how did

7:25

he do that? You know, like

7:27

I've seen you get on a roof,

7:30

like just things that I would

7:32

not do, right? I don't know, and

7:34

please don't take this as a

7:36

challenge, I don't know how

7:39

I feel about you disassembling

7:41

an entire minivan. Like, I'm

7:43

convinced something won't go back

7:46

together correctly. Can I say

7:48

something else? Can I say

7:50

something else to add on what Mike

7:52

said? I am by no means a

7:55

handyman. But I think you're

7:57

thinking through this problem.

8:00

the wrong way. I think you've disassembled

8:02

the van, right? You took out

8:04

all the seats and whatever, but

8:06

I think the marble is actually

8:08

in one of the seats. You've

8:10

been looking in the van, but

8:12

I think the marble is inside

8:15

the seat. Oh, interesting. That's why

8:17

you were unable to identify the

8:19

marble. Have we also considered that

8:21

maybe there's just a marble in

8:23

Mary's backpack? Like the marbles, like

8:25

marbles coming from inside the house.

8:27

Like what's going on? The marbles

8:29

jumped into your truck. You're never

8:31

going to get this thing. But

8:34

yeah, I'm with Federico. Maybe it's

8:36

not where you, it's like it's

8:38

not where you think. You know,

8:40

like it's somewhere else. The marbles,

8:42

like marbles coming from inside the

8:44

house. Or you have a potentially

8:46

dangerous way. to test out your

8:48

theory that the marble is in

8:51

the van. I do not advise

8:53

this, but have you tried moving

8:55

the van without the seats and

8:57

see if you hear the marble

8:59

moving around? I mean, the concern

9:01

is, or not the concern, the

9:03

problem is that it's intermittent. And

9:05

so, like, we thought it was

9:07

fixed now for like three weeks.

9:10

And then it came back. And

9:12

so I don't, I have to

9:14

drive the van without the seats

9:16

for a while. And that seems

9:18

bad. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't

9:20

do that. Or if you do,

9:22

maybe record a YouTube video for

9:24

a sponsor while you do that.

9:26

Oh my God. He made the

9:29

joke. We all made an eye

9:31

message. He made it. If you

9:33

go check your eye message now,

9:35

better you go. There's two references

9:37

to this occurring. But yes. One

9:39

way to do it is to

9:41

go too fast. That's the way

9:43

to do it. Just shoot the

9:46

marble out of the back. and

9:48

get it on the axi camera.

9:50

Yeah, I don't know what I'm

9:52

gonna do. I mean, I'm not

9:54

gonna, I don't know. This is.

9:56

I'm assembling it further would get

9:58

complicated. And I already had to

10:00

like disconnect the battery so I

10:02

could unplug the airbags from the

10:05

seats. Like it was already a

10:07

lot. So we'll see. We made

10:09

it for the marble. Yeah, the

10:11

marble's part of the family law

10:13

now. Maybe. You know? That's just

10:15

where it is. If we sell

10:17

it at some point in the

10:19

distant future, we hope it's quiet.

10:21

Yeah. Just really, really, really slow.

10:24

Like on the test drive? Like

10:26

just very, very, very, very, very

10:28

slow. Bad news No,

10:30

grainy gate, no, no, grainy gate,

10:32

grainy gate, marble gate. We're not

10:35

doing this. This is not a

10:37

gate. This is a person, no,

10:39

just stop going on the macroomers

10:42

forums. Someone sent this to us.

10:44

This is from, this is someone,

10:46

this is a listener, Ighmar, sorry,

10:49

I've heard of Stephen with a

10:51

V. It doesn't matter. Like, even

10:53

if someone sends you a link

10:56

to the macrumas forums. It also

10:58

counts. Stop going on the Macroom

11:00

as forums. It's like people with

11:03

conspiracy theories hanging out in there.

11:05

That's all it is. But anyway,

11:08

what is happening? Please, yes. The

11:10

Macbook M1 cameras apparently look grainy

11:12

after the MacOS 15.1 update. Okay.

11:15

And I have an M1 and

11:17

Macbook air and I see this.

11:19

It's, it's weird. It's clearly a

11:22

software processing thing. Maybe you can

11:24

spend time on the forums then,

11:26

I guess, I guess if you

11:29

have it. Wait, did you notice

11:31

it before you read about it?

11:33

I don't ever, I mean, that's

11:36

on a laptop I only use

11:38

for betas, so I'd go get

11:40

it off the shelf and update

11:43

it. And I don't really ever

11:45

use the camera built into any

11:47

laptop, but there you go. Granny.

11:50

Granny. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but we'll fix

11:52

it. It's probably fixing 15-15 in

11:55

15-15-15-15-15. Granny-gate. Granny-gate. This

11:58

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support of the show. Listener

14:06

Jeremy sent in something

14:08

called The Nomad. This

14:10

is a product on

14:13

Kickstarter, not Indigogo.

14:15

Thankfully. They've raised $135,000.

14:17

over a goal of $10,000, which seems

14:19

low when I describe this product to

14:21

you, but definitely like go check on

14:24

the page. I just opened the, oh

14:26

my God, I need to, I need

14:28

to buy this. Yeah, one of us

14:30

will. Well, talk about this, let's talk

14:33

about it. Three things, it's three things,

14:35

okay? A rugged waterproof tablet,

14:37

a premium portable speaker,

14:40

and a mobile car play system. These

14:42

are not three kickstaters.

14:44

It's one kickstarterarter.

14:47

We call it nomad. So this

14:50

thing is incredible. It's this

14:52

Android tablet that supports

14:54

car play and Android

14:56

auto supports airplay has

14:58

Bluetooth and headphone jackout

15:01

lots of mounting options.

15:03

It's waterproof Basically,

15:05

it's a it's a take it anywhere

15:07

including the shower carplay

15:10

airplay speaker thing and I

15:12

kind of love it what they are

15:14

Federico if you haven't seen this you

15:16

have to watch the video with sound later

15:19

because it's hilarious like the guy doing the

15:21

video like this is if anything this is

15:23

a this is a fantastic kickstarter

15:25

campaign from like a video perspective

15:28

like the the marketing of this

15:30

product is very good and like

15:32

what they're going for which I

15:34

appreciate is like this is the

15:37

portable TV right that you know

15:39

like from when we were kids

15:41

yeah people have like portable TVs

15:43

like that's what they're they're going

15:46

for here now Stephen you are

15:48

famed car play enthusiast

15:50

yes how are they doing this so you

15:52

can there there's a bunch of

15:54

Android tablets you can get

15:56

and you see this a

15:58

lot in like aftermark stereo

16:00

stuff in cars, where you buy

16:02

these things off Alley Express or

16:04

Amazon or something, there's huge Android

16:06

tablets, and they are, they run

16:08

carplay, or like they can receive

16:10

carplay. Because if you remember, all

16:13

the brains of carplay are happening

16:15

on your phone. Basically, the screen

16:17

just has to be the right

16:19

kind of receiver for that signal.

16:21

And this is not something that

16:23

Apple, as far as I know

16:25

that Apple has to approve, because

16:27

surely they would not approve like

16:29

a 17 inch Android tablet, you

16:31

can slap in your F-150. But

16:33

the airplane stuff, you know, it's

16:35

like people have built these packages

16:37

to run on top of Android.

16:39

And so this thing is an

16:41

Android tablet that can do a

16:43

bunch of these different things. And

16:45

one of the things that can

16:47

do is except Carplay. Is there

16:50

like blessing of this? I don't.

16:52

There may be or there may

16:54

have been, but it seems like,

16:56

and I couldn't find a lot

16:58

of information on this, but it

17:00

does seem like either there's not

17:02

anymore or people have figured out

17:04

how to do with themselves. Which

17:06

that doesn't, it doesn't strike me

17:08

with confidence that this is a

17:10

product that will work forever, is

17:12

kind of what I'm saying. Yeah,

17:14

maybe. Because I don't know, I

17:16

just don't know about, about, like,

17:18

for example, there are a bunch

17:20

of headphones that you can buy

17:22

that are fake airpods that when

17:25

you try to pair them, somebody

17:27

is somehow re-engineered the airpods pairing

17:29

thing and it will show that,

17:31

right? Like, this has been a

17:33

thing forever. There's been a bunch

17:35

of YouTube videos about this, you

17:37

know, people have done this. And

17:39

so, like, they're always workarounds, but

17:41

every time there are a new

17:43

workarounds. It is a very interesting

17:45

product because she says it is

17:47

an Android tablet at heart so

17:49

you can run Android apps on

17:51

it and you can run car

17:53

play on it and it is

17:55

fully waterproof it's a So it's

17:57

a screen, so you can watch

17:59

things on it. It's got speakers,

18:02

it's got a bunch of attachments

18:04

that you can, you know, you

18:06

can, it's got a stand, you

18:08

can strap it to things, it

18:10

has a shower mount, it has

18:12

a battery that attaches magnetically, it

18:14

has a cup holder. It's a

18:16

very, I think, a very well

18:18

thought out clever product. Now, you

18:20

know, how does it actually run,

18:22

you know, I was digging through

18:24

some of the comments today, the

18:26

actual like. hardware or the thing,

18:28

like it's gonna be, it's gonna

18:30

be a little rough. So we've

18:32

got Android 13, it's running a

18:34

Qualcomm 662 processor, which I think

18:37

Federico currently, if I'm wrong, is

18:39

like low-powered than a bunch of

18:41

the like gaming handles. You know,

18:43

so like there are ways to

18:45

maybe make this thing a little

18:47

bit, you know, better, but it

18:49

may also just do the job

18:51

of like you wanna listen to

18:53

things or watch. YouTube videos in

18:55

the shower I get you know

18:57

like it's it's a clever product

18:59

like it you know I think

19:01

that they've developed something really interesting

19:03

I just there's a couple things

19:05

I wonder how's it gonna work

19:07

they said they're gonna deliver this

19:09

in February like that feels like

19:11

the the kickstart a mistake like

19:14

I don't you know of like

19:16

over promising and it being delivered

19:18

very late then that just happens

19:20

to everyone you know sure so

19:22

yeah it's an interesting idea initially

19:24

in campaign Stephen are you gonna

19:26

get one so I was interested

19:28

in it because like yeah car

19:30

play in the shower it'd be

19:32

great so I have a Bluetooth

19:34

like some waterproof speaker in the

19:36

shower and listen to podcast music

19:38

in the shower but like your

19:40

phones like in the bathroom and

19:42

you're like yelling at Siri and

19:44

it's not ideal And

19:46

so I showed this to Mary.

19:49

He's like, look how cool this

19:51

is. And she had such a

19:53

visceral reaction to this. The only

19:55

other time I've really seen this

19:58

sort of reaction from her was...

20:00

when I stole into the house

20:02

wearing the Vision Pro, and she

20:04

was like, no, no, like, you're

20:07

not wearing this in the house.

20:09

She's like, you cannot have a

20:11

screen in the shower. I was

20:13

like, well, it's not like a

20:16

camera. I think, I was like,

20:18

it's not like a, not like

20:20

I have an iPad in there.

20:22

She's like, no, like, that's too

20:25

much, like, she did not love,

20:27

so. Probably not soon up in

20:29

my household. You're sad, I bet.

20:31

This feels like they made it

20:34

for you. This feels like the

20:36

like an end point to a

20:38

thing we've been talking about for

20:40

ages. Yeah, and maybe you know,

20:43

maybe I could build my own.

20:45

So and in Googling Quietly in

20:47

the background, I'm not going to

20:49

link to it because like no

20:52

one should actually buy this. There's

20:54

a $40 USB dongle that is

20:56

like injects carplay into an Android

20:58

tablet. Yes, and the URL is

21:01

not an actual domain name, it's

21:03

an IP address, like in the

21:05

Amazon description. So, yes, yes, I

21:07

did not put that in a,

21:10

in a browser, like I do

21:12

not, nothing to do with that

21:14

on my network. But yeah, I

21:16

mean, it is, it's weird to

21:19

me that you're like, I won't

21:21

buy this because my wife said

21:23

I can't, but I might make

21:25

my own. I'm not 100% sure

21:28

how we get to that. Like,

21:30

that's not. Oh, she wouldn't like

21:32

that either, probably, but you know,

21:34

it'd be a fun project. Because

21:37

it's the same thing. It's why

21:39

you're doing the same thing. You're

21:41

just like hiding it, like, which

21:43

is worse. That's true. I respect

21:46

this. I respect this project, you

21:48

know. The video is really good.

21:50

Like, even if you're not interested

21:52

in it, the video is a

21:55

couple minutes long. They did a

21:57

great job on it. Like, really,

21:59

like it's funny and engaging and

22:01

that it is, it's good. It,

22:04

the video made me. go from

22:06

I have no use to this

22:08

to I want this yeah yeah

22:10

so I'm not gonna buy it

22:13

because I don't I don't want

22:15

it that bad but like the

22:17

video is good enough that it

22:19

made me want I mean I'm

22:22

intrigued to see how this project

22:24

unfolds I'll we keep an eye

22:26

on it that's for sure yeah

22:28

I think it's just interesting that

22:31

it's it's carplay beyond sort of

22:33

the normal places we think of

22:35

carplay being like you could see

22:37

and we're going to talk about

22:40

the Mark German thing later on

22:42

like something like car play could

22:44

be useful in other realms. I

22:46

don't know. It's pretty cool. Mike,

22:49

tell us about Apple's new book.

22:51

Oh, I mean, Apple are working

22:53

with Aseline to make a book,

22:55

which is $450, which is very

22:58

normal for Aseline books. That's like

23:00

what they do. They make very

23:02

expensive books. I respect that this

23:04

book comes in a clear case

23:07

and it looks like a cassette

23:09

or like a CD. I think

23:11

they've done, you know, they might

23:13

art books and they make expensive

23:16

coffee table books. And you think

23:18

to yourself, okay, they're having another

23:20

shot at the Design in California

23:22

or whatever, right now that Stephen

23:25

has. But no, it is a

23:27

book that is a physical representation.

23:29

of the 100 Best Albums list

23:31

that Apple Music put together a

23:34

little while ago. Which is bad.

23:36

I'm gonna read from Christina Warren,

23:38

friend of the show, a Masternon,

23:40

and says, The Price isn't what's

23:43

making me laugh. It's that it's

23:45

for Apple's truly unhinged 100 albums

23:47

of all-time list. It's not a

23:49

good list. The list is very,

23:52

very bad. I cannot imagine making

23:54

such a beautiful book for such

23:56

a terrible list, which I agree

23:58

with wholeheartedly. Yep. Good

24:01

enough said it better. You know,

24:03

art and lists, and it's all

24:05

subjective, you know, like people are

24:07

just making their lists and stuff,

24:09

like whatever, but like, list ain't

24:11

great, you know, like. No, but

24:13

I think Unhinged describes the vibe

24:15

of that list. Yes, yeah, as

24:17

a reminder, as a reminder, and

24:19

this is no disrespect to Lauren

24:21

Hill, but the best album of

24:23

all time is the miseducation of

24:26

Lauren Hill. followed up by thriller

24:28

and Abbey Road. Now, and in purple

24:30

rain, I'm sorry, like, I'm sorry, but

24:32

it's not accurate information. I don't know

24:35

how a group of people came together

24:37

and did this. Like, it's wild to

24:39

me. I think I had this conversation

24:42

with you or Don or you and

24:44

John together at the time. My opinion

24:46

is I. I've always thought that it

24:48

was going to be either thriller or

24:51

Abbey Road. And if we go, like

24:53

just my personal opinion, if you go

24:55

by influence on the music market,

24:57

on just the style of

25:00

music production, just influence on

25:02

people in general, like it should have

25:04

been thriller in my opinion. But

25:06

the whole top 10 is truly

25:08

kind of unhinged. Sort of like

25:10

gives gives me the vibe of

25:12

like, hey, let's... Let's just be

25:14

different for different sake. Like I

25:16

cannot believe that Rumours by Fleetwood

25:18

Mac did not make the top 10.

25:20

Yep. That I think, I think Rumours

25:23

by Fleetwood Mac is the best album

25:25

ever made. That's my pick. Like, it's

25:27

not my favourite. I think it is

25:29

the best collection of music ever

25:31

put together. Like, I think it

25:33

is an untouchable album. No,

25:36

this respect to Frank Ocean. But

25:38

like, Frank Ocean higher than Prince?

25:40

Yeah. No. I just think that something

25:42

like that like like well Frank Ocean

25:45

is just behind Prince Frank Ocean was

25:47

four but like Frank Ocean ahead of

25:49

songs in the Key of Life by

25:51

Stevie Wonder I don't understand it

25:53

like I feel like an album released

25:55

in 2016 we haven't had enough time

25:57

from it you know like anyway the list

26:00

This is wild and it is

26:02

actually kind of very fitting that

26:04

they've put it in a $450

26:06

book. But like, it is a,

26:08

you know, and it's, you know,

26:10

I'm sure that the book does

26:12

a much better, does like an

26:14

interesting job of explaining because it's

26:16

got editorial in it too. But

26:18

yeah, I, the list is wild,

26:20

the book is expensive. I respect

26:22

Apple, like making books, I think

26:24

they should do more of this

26:26

stuff because like why not, like,

26:28

like, like, but this one is

26:30

is is truly they are I

26:32

guess continuing the unhinged nature of

26:34

their book releases right yeah yeah

26:36

where the first one was unhinged

26:39

just because of the fact that

26:41

it existed like that was unhinged

26:43

and now they have continued it

26:45

by putting this list into a

26:47

book. Yeah designed by Apple in

26:49

California was a couple hundred bucks

26:51

when it was released I think

26:53

it was like 300 wasn't it?

26:55

Yeah and you can now On

26:57

eBay they go for over a

26:59

thousand dollars a copy Given the

27:01

vibe given the vibe of this

27:03

list this book should have been

27:05

420 not 450 Yeah, absolutely There's

27:07

a new iOS 18.2 beta that

27:09

we can discuss 18.2 beta 3

27:11

You know, Apple keeps rolling with

27:13

this 18.2 beta for a rumored

27:16

release date in now seems of

27:18

the week of December 9th according

27:20

to Mac rumors and some information

27:22

they received from the EE carrier

27:24

in the UK, I want to

27:26

say. It seems like that's going

27:28

to be the lunch week for

27:30

18.2, so Apple basically shooting to

27:32

have 18.2 and more Apple intelligence

27:34

features out before Christmas and the

27:36

holiday break. There are some changes

27:38

in beta 3 as well. There's

27:40

the new ability for camera, a

27:42

couple of things for camera control

27:44

really. There's the previously announced ability

27:46

to lock auto exposure. and auto

27:48

focus with camera control with the

27:50

light press. And if any of

27:53

you tried this, I tried this.

27:55

Yes, I tried this, I continued

27:57

to be, what's a good word

27:59

in English, mystified by camera control?

28:01

Yeah. I have no idea what

28:03

I'm doing. Like honestly, I enabled

28:05

this and I was like, okay,

28:07

it's one more thing that I

28:09

need to learn and I tried

28:11

it for a couple of days,

28:13

basically never used it and went

28:15

back to my simple, you know.

28:17

just press the button to open

28:19

the camera and press it again

28:21

to take a photo. Same. So

28:23

the way it works is when

28:25

you open camera control you light

28:27

press you like light press and

28:30

hold and then it will lock

28:32

the focus and exposure on what

28:34

is in the center of the

28:36

frame and it will keep that

28:38

lock until you let go or

28:40

take the photo. If you remove

28:42

it then it gets rid of

28:44

the lock again which is like

28:46

Okay, this is not the way

28:48

anybody expected this. What we expected

28:50

was this to work like a

28:52

camera works. And they didn't really

28:54

do that? Or they kind of

28:56

did? I don't know. Maybe they

28:58

kind of did? Stephen, did they

29:00

do this? I don't know. Nevertheless,

29:02

it's weird. But they did add

29:04

a thing that I do like,

29:07

which is there is a new

29:09

option for require screen on. So

29:11

I turn that off, which now

29:13

means that I can just press

29:15

the camera control button and it

29:17

always opens the camera. I don't

29:19

need to have the screen awake

29:21

first. I think that is a

29:23

good feature of making it more

29:25

natural. I will say, I am

29:27

a camera control user. Like, that

29:29

is how I open the camera

29:31

and it's how I take photos

29:33

now. Like, I have internalized it,

29:35

it works for me. Absolutely. But

29:37

everything else. I don't really do

29:39

it. I do leave it on

29:41

the switching of cameras. That to

29:44

me is like the only thing

29:46

I ever want to use it

29:48

for. It's just to swipe. to

29:50

switch from like the 1X to

29:52

2X to 5X and the selfie

29:54

camera. I think that is like

29:56

a great feature and that kind

29:58

of is it for me. My

30:00

take is that the camera control

30:02

settings are better than camera control

30:04

itself. Yeah, they got lots of

30:06

options, right? But they're scattered, they're

30:08

scattered across the settings app and

30:10

in a bunch of different places.

30:12

Yeah, yeah. Some of them are

30:14

in display, some of the marine

30:16

camera. I mean... But that's I

30:18

guess kind of fitting for the

30:21

complexity of camera control. Right, complex

30:23

feature complex settings to find. Absolutely

30:25

same. There's now a ability to

30:27

share an air tag with selected

30:29

airlines to locate your luggage. Yes.

30:31

And I think Mike you have

30:33

thoughts about this. Yeah, so the

30:35

way this works is. you like

30:37

how there is the new sharing

30:39

of items right in the in

30:41

fine might this will allow you

30:43

and there's a bunch of airlines

30:45

that have opted in or you

30:47

can choose to share it individual

30:49

for a set period of time

30:51

so essentially if your bag is

30:53

lost and you have an air

30:55

tag you can go to the

30:58

baggage counter and share that information

31:00

with the person and they can

31:02

then I guess more easily find

31:04

your bag because I don't know

31:06

if you've ever had this happen

31:08

to you, you arrive at the

31:10

airport and they're like, and your

31:12

bag doesn't come out of the

31:14

baggage carousel, and it's always like

31:16

this could take up to an

31:18

hour to get your bag, and

31:20

I think part of it is

31:22

finding your bag, it's complicated even

31:24

though it's in the system, because

31:26

lots of bags, maybe this will

31:28

help that, but I just had

31:30

this happen to me when I

31:32

was on my way home from

31:35

the podcast, I was going through

31:37

Chicago, to my flight the next

31:39

day. Now this was not a

31:41

thing I wanted, nor was it

31:43

a thing I asked for or

31:45

anybody told me they would do.

31:47

And when I went to the,

31:49

and spoke to the person at

31:51

the, like at the desk, they

31:53

were like, yeah, they shouldn't really

31:55

have done that. I was like,

31:57

great, can I get my bag?

31:59

please and they're like yeah but

32:01

it could take like an hour

32:03

I'm like all right well I'll

32:05

guess I'll wait for my bag so

32:08

like and they will and I was

32:10

like where will it be and they're

32:12

like oh do you see that baggage

32:14

carousel like they have like

32:16

a specific baggage carousel

32:18

like it will come out here

32:21

I'm like okay so like 20

32:23

minutes past and I open fine

32:25

money and it's on the original baggage carousel

32:27

just going around so like they didn't deliver

32:29

it to the correct place now if I

32:31

wouldn't have had an air tag on my

32:33

suitcase I don't even know how long it would

32:35

have taken for me to find that bag because

32:38

like at a certain point it would have

32:40

gone back into the system again because

32:42

nobody picked it up so like air tags are

32:44

great but it would have been way easier

32:46

for me if I would have been able

32:48

to say hey I have an air tag

32:50

and then share it with a person. I'm

32:52

expecting that could have solved things. But nevertheless,

32:54

this is just an endorsement from me to

32:57

you. Put air tags in your suitcase.

32:59

And my extra tip for this is

33:01

one air tag on the outside, one

33:03

air tag on the inside. That's what I

33:05

do with my suitcase. Because air tag

33:07

on the outside is good for indicating

33:09

to someone if your bag is lost,

33:12

that the bag can be located, right?

33:14

That's why it was therefore. You can

33:16

scan it with their phone and contact

33:18

you. that way. But then the air tag

33:20

has the opportunity to fall off or

33:22

be broken. So I also put one

33:25

on the inside, which is for me,

33:27

for finding it in case something like

33:29

that happens. So that's my top tip

33:31

for air tags and suitcase. Did I

33:33

ever tell you the story of something

33:36

I did a couple of years

33:38

ago where I remotely rescued a

33:40

dog on Instagram by teaching a

33:42

famous Italian influencer how to scan

33:44

an air tag? Absolutely not. You

33:46

did not tell us that. Okay,

33:48

this is something I did. So I

33:50

followed this influencer. She's very

33:52

popular and nearly. She's also

33:55

a TV host. She posted the story a

33:57

couple of years back in the summer. She

33:59

was a... on vacation, somewhere fancy in

34:01

Italy. I want to say Sardinia

34:03

probably. She posted the story of

34:06

this really cute dog. And in

34:08

the story she wrote, help we

34:10

found this dog. She has a,

34:12

I believe it was a, yeah,

34:14

she has a color and there's

34:16

an air tag. What do we

34:18

do? It's like a public story

34:20

with this photo of this dog

34:23

with a color and an air

34:25

tag. And so I was like,

34:27

my, you know, my Apple nerdiness

34:29

kicked in immediately. I was like,

34:31

you know what, this influencers, they

34:33

never look at messages, but maybe

34:35

in this case, you know, there's

34:37

a dog involved and maybe this

34:40

is my moment. And so it's

34:42

like, I replied via the M.

34:44

I mind you, this is like

34:46

an influencer with two million followers,

34:48

okay? And and I have like,

34:50

what, eight thousand. Don't understand yourself

34:52

Federico. Whatever. So anyway, I replied,

34:54

I was like, okay, so what

34:57

you need to do is bring

34:59

your phone close to the air

35:01

tag. And if it's in loss

35:03

mode, in theory, it should prompt

35:05

you with the notification to open

35:07

safari. And in safari, it'll give

35:09

you a web page with a

35:12

phone number of the owner that

35:14

you can call. And sure enough,

35:16

it worked. And she replied, it's

35:18

just like, thank you so much,

35:20

we're going to try this. And

35:22

I was like, OK, that was

35:24

it. It was like my moment

35:26

with an influencer who replied to

35:29

me. And she actually followed up

35:31

a few minutes later. picture of

35:33

the dog says like thank you

35:35

so much I was able to

35:37

call the owner he just rescued

35:39

the dog everything's okay thank you

35:41

very much it's like oh that's

35:43

you know my skills were useful

35:46

for one change in lives you

35:48

know one dog at a time

35:50

sure and one influence so at

35:52

a time sure yeah anyway air

35:54

tags they're great yeah also a

35:56

couple of other things I thought

35:58

were interesting media volume being able

36:00

to change a media volume from

36:03

the lock screen is coming back.

36:05

It's an option in accessibility. And

36:07

there's a live activity for safari

36:09

downloads now too. Yeah, that's nice,

36:11

actually. And as you know, someone

36:13

who releases every year, like ebooks

36:15

and large. downloadable files. I always

36:18

get the emails from people from

36:20

people because before this change it

36:22

was very confusing where the safari

36:24

downloads would go. Sure there's a

36:26

small indicator in safari showing you

36:28

that something is actually downloading but

36:30

it's easy to indicate. it's easy

36:32

to miss and with the live

36:35

activity it's a little more in

36:37

your face you know that something

36:39

is actually downloading and it also

36:41

highlights the fact that maybe few

36:43

people know this but safari can

36:45

totally download even large stuff in

36:47

the background if you close safari

36:49

and you go do something else

36:52

even before the live activity safari

36:54

could do it now it's more

36:56

obvious that it can I just

36:58

like that all these things are

37:00

being added to point to like

37:02

it's not just Apple intelligence right

37:04

like the IOS 18 is being

37:06

made noticeably better, even though they're

37:09

focused on the Apple intelligence as

37:11

well. Like I'm just, I'm happy

37:13

about that. That is like, the

37:15

work is still happening. It's not

37:17

all been passed over to the

37:19

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all of Relay. So

39:19

we were just speaking about iOS

39:21

18.2 and I was surprised when

39:23

I opened a document today to

39:25

see that Federico wanted to talk

39:27

about some uses of writing tools

39:29

in yeah I was 18.2 This

39:32

is not what I would have

39:34

expected from you so I'm very

39:36

intrigued now first of all I

39:38

like to keep people on their

39:40

toes you know you got to

39:42

keep guessing you got a zang

39:44

on people exactly when people form

39:46

an idea of me that's when

39:48

I know it's time to change

39:50

because you know but seriously um

39:52

The thing is I Obviously have

39:54

my very strong opinions on generative

39:56

AI on the training that was

39:58

done how it was done and

40:00

as we discussed in the This

40:02

is not meant to be another

40:04

of those political segments. Unfortunately, by

40:06

and large, the damage has been

40:08

done from that perspective. And I

40:10

wish I had the strength and the

40:12

power as an individual to undo

40:14

what has been done, but I

40:17

cannot. And so I, for the

40:19

past few months, I have found

40:21

myself at this crossroads where like,

40:23

these features are happening. These

40:25

features are coming. Apple is

40:27

working on them, other AI

40:29

companies are continuing the rollout of

40:32

their products and there's very little

40:34

I can do. But the more, you

40:36

know, I have an opinion about something

40:38

doesn't mean that I'm ignoring, that

40:40

it exists, right? And the more

40:42

I keep observing this space and

40:44

the more I keep, you know,

40:46

reading and testing and playing around

40:48

with these things, the more I

40:50

think I am coming. This is

40:52

like... just an assumption that I

40:55

have, but I think I'm coming

40:57

to a conclusion in my head,

40:59

which is I fundamentally despise

41:01

generative AI in the sense

41:04

of a software that aims

41:06

to replace human creativity and

41:08

human output. There's nothing I

41:11

can do about it. I

41:13

really, really, strongly dislike it,

41:16

especially for illustrations and images

41:18

and photos, quote-unquote photos. But

41:20

at the same time... I

41:22

find it more comfortable

41:25

when there's an application of

41:27

AI, I believe people in

41:30

this field, they call it

41:32

assistive AI, as opposed to

41:34

generative AI, where it's really

41:37

meant to assist you with

41:39

certain tasks, and you still

41:41

gotta do the work. Like

41:43

in my case, I still

41:45

gotta write, I still gotta

41:47

do my research, I still

41:49

gotta do my job, but

41:52

there's... another, essentially another tool

41:54

in my toolbox that I

41:56

can use. And that makes

41:58

me more at ease. then

42:00

say write an essay for me

42:02

or write an email for me

42:05

or create an image for me.

42:07

And so I've been looking into

42:09

this sort of stuff, not just

42:12

for Apple Intelligence, but for other

42:14

AI tools, though maybe we'll talk

42:16

about later. But I thought this

42:19

week, as I was working in

42:21

Apple Notes, also because I got

42:23

to write about 80.2, I thought

42:26

I identified a couple of things

42:28

where I could test writing tools.

42:30

Not for writing at all. but

42:33

for assisting me in the editing

42:35

and management of a couple of

42:37

notes that I had in the

42:40

notes app, two very different types

42:42

of notes. The first one was

42:44

a list of payments for the

42:47

current year, payments and related tax

42:49

rates that I needed to keep

42:51

track of. And this note was

42:54

like all kinds of messy. It

42:56

was not properly formatted. Some payment

42:58

amounts were inserted in the note

43:01

with the symbol, the Unicode symbol

43:03

for euro, others were just saying

43:05

like 25 euros, like spelled out,

43:08

like it was all different formatting,

43:10

there were really no sections, it

43:12

was all plain text, it was

43:15

like a note that I understood,

43:17

but it was not nice looking

43:19

and it was not neatly organized

43:22

or well laid out. And so

43:24

I thought, well, let's try writing

43:26

tools here, and especially the flavor

43:29

of writing tools in a team

43:31

point two with chat-GPT integration, with

43:33

the ability to further refine your

43:36

query, but also to compose something

43:38

using chat-GPT. So what I did

43:40

was I took this note and

43:43

I said, can you take this

43:45

entire document? This is actually me

43:47

typing out these instructions in natural

43:50

language in the writing tools chagipity

43:52

tax field. Can you take this

43:54

note and give it consistent formatting?

43:57

Make sure you always label these

43:59

payments a certain way and these

44:01

other payments with a different way

44:04

and the tax rates, you know,

44:06

put them into a different section.

44:08

All of these sections should be

44:11

organized by month and I want

44:13

you to create sections for each

44:15

month. And sure enough, I did

44:18

that. Like writing tools which IGBT

44:20

did that and it took the

44:22

contents of my note and reformated

44:25

the note, gave everything a consistent,

44:27

for example euros were all transformed

44:29

into the Unicode symbol for the

44:32

euro currency and everything was organized

44:34

by month and the payment types

44:36

were organized with the same order

44:39

with bulleted lists, it was really

44:41

well done. Couple of things where

44:43

I was impressed. I got to

44:46

say I was impressed. And even

44:48

more interesting though is that I

44:50

found value in being able to

44:53

to query that note for information

44:55

later. Like for example, once the

44:57

note was organized, I said, okay,

45:00

can you now? This is in

45:02

the compose field. of writing tools.

45:04

I said, can you add a

45:07

section at the end where you

45:09

sum up all of the payments

45:11

that were labelled Max Stories and

45:14

give me the total of all

45:16

of them? And it did that.

45:18

It worked. So basically what I

45:21

realized is that with this note

45:23

that contained a bunch of numbers

45:25

and a bunch of currencies, I

45:28

was basically remaking a spreadsheet without

45:30

actually working with a spreadsheet. I

45:32

was doing that, but instead of

45:35

entering formulas. I was asking the

45:37

AI to do the calculation for

45:40

me. Which is much easier. I

45:42

mean like spreadsheets are good if

45:44

you know how if you know

45:47

the incantations. Exactly, exactly. And in

45:49

this case I was just I

45:51

was using like even the wrong

45:54

terminology. It's like, hey, can you

45:56

sum up this like... You know,

45:58

I was not using it. You're

46:01

asking it like a person. Like

46:03

a person, like a person. But

46:05

in doing this, I ran into

46:08

a couple of limitations. The first

46:10

one is that ChagipT, I don't

46:12

think it has an exact understanding

46:15

of the Apple Notes specific formatting.

46:17

that they want to do for

46:19

headings for example. Absolutely not. When

46:22

I asked it, like can you

46:24

make, so I selected some, actually

46:26

I said, can you make all

46:29

of the month labels proper headings

46:31

in notes? And it. didn't know

46:33

how to deal with that. So

46:36

instead it entered Markdown headings like

46:38

H2 Markdown headings with two pound

46:40

signs. I was like, no, that's

46:43

that's not what I'm asking for.

46:45

It would be sick if notes

46:47

had Markdown support, right? It would

46:50

be sick, but but it doesn't.

46:52

And also like I realized something

46:54

that I naturally gravitated to words

46:57

was like, okay, now that I

46:59

can, you know, I can ask

47:01

this thing to work with numbers.

47:04

I was like, hey, can you

47:06

make me, can you make me,

47:08

and make me like a table

47:11

with these numbers. And the problem

47:13

is that you cannot, like you

47:15

can turn a selection of text

47:18

into a table, but you cannot

47:20

ask Chad GPT in writing tools

47:22

to say, hey, just take a

47:25

subset of those payments and make

47:27

it and create a table at

47:29

the end. That doesn't work. That

47:32

doesn't work. Yeah, because the table

47:34

creating functionality is not Chad GPT,

47:36

GPT, right? Exactly. Essentially, like what

47:39

is happening? I agree, like it

47:41

would be great if they actually

47:43

did talk to each other, but

47:46

like Chad GPT is doing its

47:48

thing and then IOS is just

47:50

pasting the results. Like that is

47:53

essentially what's happening, which is exactly

47:55

it's kind of janky, right? Like

47:57

a lot of this stuff, like

48:00

basically every part of Apple intelligence

48:02

is currently janky in some way.

48:04

that is going on across the

48:07

board. The second note was also

48:09

interesting. So the second note was

48:11

something completely different. It's a shared

48:14

note that we are currently sharing

48:16

with the Max Stories team to

48:18

make our selections for the Max

48:21

Story Selects Awards, which are coming

48:23

back, of course, this year. And

48:25

there are sections in this note.

48:28

for each of us on the

48:30

editorial team casting our votes for

48:32

our preferences. So there's Federico, John,

48:35

Jonathan, Neilian and Devon. And everyone

48:37

of us is dipping in and

48:39

out of the note, entering their

48:42

selections. Mine was empty and so

48:44

I want a clean start and

48:46

I saw that John already had

48:49

all of these sections, the categories.

48:51

already inserted in the note. So

48:53

I placed the cursor under my

48:56

name in my empty section and

48:58

I summoned the writing tools and

49:00

I said, can you make me

49:03

a list of the same categories

49:05

of words that John used? And

49:07

much to my surprise, it worked.

49:10

It took all of these sections

49:12

without the actual picks, just the

49:14

names of the sections that John

49:17

used in his section. and created

49:19

basically a template for me in

49:21

my part of the document. And

49:24

that was nice. Some of the

49:26

section names were not properly capitalized,

49:28

so I selected a couple of

49:31

them, and in the refined text

49:33

field, I entered, make this title

49:35

case, and it did. Like, he

49:38

reformated the selected line of text

49:40

in title case. So that was

49:42

cool. it crashes for no clear

49:45

reason especially on the iPad because

49:47

hey why not let's crash on

49:49

the iPad what was also interesting

49:52

is that I entered my so

49:54

that again once again there was

49:57

me doing my manual work so

49:59

I entered my preferences my potential

50:01

candidates and then at the end

50:04

I moved the cursor at the

50:06

very bottom of the document

50:08

and I went back to the

50:10

compose field and I asked okay

50:13

I believe my request was who

50:15

is the likely winner for each

50:17

category based on the number of

50:19

appearances in this note for each

50:22

person yeah and it did that

50:24

it created a list of the

50:26

categories with potential winners based just

50:28

on number of appearances in each

50:30

category said, I don't know, I'm

50:33

gonna say something that cannot possibly

50:35

be true, so no spoilers, tweet

50:37

bot, rest in peace, because it

50:39

was mentioned by Federico, Devon, and

50:42

John in this and this category.

50:44

So like, it did that. And

50:46

I thought that was useful. Like,

50:48

instead of me having to like.

50:51

there's no creativity in me running

50:53

down running through a list and

50:55

counting appearances like that's what that's

50:57

what computers do like you know

51:00

take care of the busy work

51:02

for me and so for this

51:04

type of busy work despite

51:06

the junkiness of it all

51:08

I found it kind of useful I'll

51:11

say like something that has

51:13

changed recently too like Like

51:15

Chad GPT just got web searching

51:17

capabilities. Yeah, oh boy is

51:19

good. Oh my god, it's so

51:22

much better than Google like

51:24

it's it's incredible Just how

51:26

for me like how better at searching

51:28

the web that is and I've

51:30

had similar experiences with perplexity right

51:32

like that's what it was doing

51:34

before But I just I like

51:37

the way that Czech GBT is

51:39

doing it like visually but like

51:41

these tools somebody wrote into me

51:43

I haven't tried it yet, but

51:45

you know Kagi Yeah, the search

51:47

engine right. Yeah, they have they have a

51:49

thing with they're using a bunch of things

51:51

and they're doing a search tool like this

51:54

to things called Kagi assistant where if you

51:56

pay for their pro plan, they they have

51:58

a version of this too I just think,

52:00

as a version of like, web

52:03

searching, these tools are just great

52:05

for searching the web, I think.

52:07

Yeah, and I, and I think

52:09

you got a hand it to

52:11

Chad GPT search. They do a

52:13

decent enough job linking to the

52:15

sources. I've also been using it.

52:18

I don't think that there's search

52:20

linking is any worse than Google.

52:22

Exactly. That's, that's what I also

52:24

think. I think. just like Google

52:26

can extract a snippet of information

52:28

from websites so they also extract

52:31

snippets but what I like is

52:33

that they put tapable sources tapable

52:35

links at the end of each

52:37

paragraph and also at the very

52:39

end there's an overall like sources

52:41

pop-up that you can tap and

52:44

it takes you straight to the

52:46

destination web page and I gotta

52:48

say like I've actually been using

52:50

this as as my main search

52:52

engine for the past two weeks

52:54

I actually put chagipity in my

52:56

doc because of that and every

52:59

web search I'm running through chagipity

53:01

and it's it's kind of wild

53:03

how much better than Google is

53:05

at doing this it's no surprise

53:07

to me that Google must be

53:09

so afraid of this product and

53:12

and I actually prefer like if

53:14

I if I use this Like

53:16

I have landed, so we've been

53:18

researching buying a new car for

53:20

example. And I have landed on

53:22

so many different auto related websites

53:25

in Italy that I had no

53:27

idea existed with Google. And so

53:29

I thought it was actually nice

53:31

that I was using something better

53:33

for search and I was actually

53:35

clicking more to get to the

53:37

original source than I was doing

53:40

before with Google and their front

53:42

page results. Yeah, I do wonder

53:44

if there's I mean I know

53:46

I've put us in myself right

53:48

where like I think Google's AI

53:50

stuff is is getting criticism because

53:53

we have long trusted Google, right?

53:55

So like, when Google gives a

53:57

weird result, you're like, oh, come

53:59

on Google, like, I have faith

54:01

in you to do this for

54:03

me. And I've had a similar

54:06

experience to you, where like, I

54:08

feel like I'm finding a different

54:10

website, so I'm doing my searches,

54:12

but that's because I inherently don't

54:14

trust ChatGPT. So like, I'm more

54:16

likely to click the sources in

54:19

a ChatGGPT search. Yes. It's not

54:21

really fair to Google in a

54:23

way, right? Like where I feel

54:25

in that regard, where like they

54:27

may be giving me as good

54:29

things, but I'm going and checking

54:31

something else anyway, but nevertheless, whatever.

54:34

But I do, these, the answers

54:36

that I get to these, like,

54:38

so for example, right, I give

54:40

you a great search that I

54:42

wanted to know the other day.

54:44

How long does it take a

54:47

container ship to get from the

54:49

UK to America? Googling that? It's

54:51

not great. Like it's just like,

54:53

I know, I know this is

54:55

a bad question for Google, but

54:57

at least I feel like it.

55:00

But I asked the YouTubeT and

55:02

it told me, it just told

55:04

me, it's like great. That's all

55:06

I need. I don't need exact.

55:08

I just want to feel like

55:10

something went on the web and

55:12

collected a bunch of information and

55:15

gave me the answer, right? And

55:17

yeah, and so I think these

55:19

tools work good for them. Yeah,

55:21

I think that's sort of the

55:23

nexus of like. Google's problem in

55:25

this new error, right? That their

55:28

tools rely on you to go

55:30

get the information at the end

55:32

and then now they're trying to

55:34

shoehorn like the AI responses at

55:36

the top of the search results.

55:38

Like you can see them struggling

55:41

with that shift in real time.

55:43

And I think your example like

55:45

perfectly describes what that, what the

55:47

heart of that issue is. Like

55:49

am I doing the work or

55:51

is the computer doing the work?

55:54

And yeah. the trust and everything

55:56

else like those are all elements

55:58

to it and you know that

56:00

will come and go over time

56:02

But I think your example is

56:04

like perfectly succinct on why Google

56:06

is facing the challenge that it

56:09

is now. Yeah. Now, you're clearly

56:11

on a bit of a AI

56:13

assistant kick right now, Federico, right?

56:15

I can feel this in you.

56:17

You're going out there, you're seeing

56:19

what the state of the art

56:22

is. Yeah. Have you hit the

56:24

thing that so many people hit,

56:26

including many of my friends, where

56:28

you realize just how smart Claude

56:30

is? Yes. Yeah. It seems to

56:32

be like the flow, but the

56:35

problem with Claude, Claude isn't connected

56:37

to the web, which I find

56:39

to be limiting. But then there

56:41

are these other tools that can

56:43

collect, connect to the web, and

56:45

use Claude as the ALM. But

56:47

like, for some reason, Anthropic haven't

56:50

done it yet. Yeah, I think

56:52

it's very strange that, well, maybe

56:54

strange is not the right word.

56:56

It's hard. It's a hard problem.

56:58

It's also a policy decision that

57:00

Anthropic doesn't want Claude to be

57:03

connected to the internet because of

57:05

safety reasons, which I understand, to

57:07

be fair, I understand. But yeah,

57:09

Claude, it's funny because I was

57:11

actually listening to you and great

57:13

discuss this. And I was like,

57:16

hey, maybe, maybe I should try

57:18

Claude and see what it's like

57:20

for like personal research purposes. And

57:22

so what I like about Claude

57:24

is that gives you the ability

57:26

to create projects. So it's... you're

57:29

basically creating like a self-contained project

57:31

and you can give it reference

57:33

files. And so obviously like an

57:35

idea came to mind was like,

57:37

hmm, if this thing really has

57:39

powerful search and reasoning capabilities, what

57:41

if I gave it my own

57:44

iOS reviews as reference files? Because

57:46

a problem that I've always had

57:49

And maybe a large

57:51

language model will be

57:53

the only solution to

57:55

address this problem is

57:57

I've been writing these

57:59

reviews for 10 years.

58:01

I posted a screenshot

58:03

on thread. today. I

58:05

did the count, the

58:08

word count of all

58:10

those reviews combined. It's

58:12

over half a million

58:14

words. In 10 years

58:16

I have written 520,000

58:18

words on IUS and

58:20

IPROS combined. It's a

58:22

staggering amount of text

58:24

and you do this

58:26

for a while. the

58:30

lines get blurry in the

58:32

sense of like, hey, when

58:34

did widgets become interactive? Yes.

58:36

Or even more esoteric stuff,

58:38

like, hey, when was it

58:40

that accessibility was moved to

58:43

the main page of the

58:45

settings app? Like, this minute

58:47

IOS and IPAOS details that

58:49

for years, I had to

58:51

use Google for, like site-specific

58:53

searches in Google, searching my

58:55

own website, and eventually finding

58:57

the page. or clicking through

58:59

multiple links, and I've always

59:01

thought, wouldn't it be great

59:03

if I had a system?

59:05

This was like, I was

59:08

having these thoughts before large

59:10

language models, like, wouldn't it

59:12

be great if I could

59:14

just query a database of

59:16

my reviews to find a

59:18

specific bit of information and

59:20

remember when something happened? And

59:22

so I thought, well, I'll

59:24

just give Claude the text

59:26

of my reviews and start

59:28

asking questions and see what

59:30

it's like, because I'm basically...

59:33

I'm basically in a way

59:35

training the AI to reason

59:37

over my own work, right?

59:39

That was the goal. And

59:41

so, spoiler, even with the

59:43

biggest model, Claude Pro, with

59:45

the 3.5 Sonnet model, it

59:47

doesn't go over, they call

59:49

it tokens, they don't call

59:51

it words, but it doesn't

59:53

go over 200,000 tokens. Right

59:55

now I am because of

59:58

this because I wanted to

1:00:00

try this, yes. Okay, did

1:00:02

it work when you paid or

1:00:04

was it? Is it still doesn't

1:00:06

work? So even if you pay,

1:00:08

you cannot go over 200,000

1:00:10

tokens, which means that my

1:00:12

half a million words far

1:00:14

exceed what is possible in Claude

1:00:17

right now. Maybe this is

1:00:19

like a long-term process, like

1:00:21

upload each document and say

1:00:23

take out. everything except the

1:00:25

details and like shrink each

1:00:27

review down or maybe maybe

1:00:30

right like just say like take a

1:00:32

look at this just create

1:00:34

another document that is

1:00:36

just facts feature you know

1:00:38

like but then again I wouldn't

1:00:41

be able to do what I've been

1:00:43

doing so basically 10 reviews

1:00:45

I cannot upload it can only

1:00:48

do three of them my latest

1:00:50

three reviews 16 and 18

1:00:52

that's the maximum I was

1:00:54

able to to otherwise it

1:00:56

like it gives me it actually

1:00:58

gives me an error it says

1:01:00

prompt is too long but

1:01:02

what I've been able to do

1:01:04

is like I've been able to

1:01:06

ask for like hey can you

1:01:09

give me a summary of the

1:01:11

widget changes across the latest three

1:01:13

releases and can you give me

1:01:15

a list and it said okay

1:01:17

sure here's like it does take

1:01:19

about 15 20 seconds to process

1:01:21

But it works, like it runs

1:01:23

through all of my three most

1:01:25

recent reviews and it gives me,

1:01:27

okay, I was 16, these changes

1:01:29

to widgets. I was 17, these

1:01:31

other changes to widgets. Then I

1:01:33

was able to say, okay, can

1:01:35

you tell me how I described

1:01:38

these changes? And it gives me

1:01:40

quotes that I used, like expressions

1:01:42

that I used. Or I could

1:01:44

go like, hey, how did I

1:01:46

conclude? My iOS 17 review and

1:01:48

it gives me like the final

1:01:50

sentence that I used like this

1:01:52

sort of it's like having it's

1:01:54

like having a superpower like This

1:01:56

is the work that I've done. This

1:01:59

is my life's work really. And there

1:02:01

has never been a good search

1:02:03

method for that work. This system

1:02:05

gives me a solution, but it's

1:02:08

very costly and very expensive. And

1:02:10

even with the most expensive option,

1:02:12

it still cannot handle 10 years

1:02:14

of work. But still, it's remarkable.

1:02:17

And, you know, the fact that,

1:02:19

you know, I really like how.

1:02:21

And in general, like, Claude seems

1:02:23

to have, I don't even know

1:02:26

to describe it, like a better

1:02:28

way of thinking. I don't know,

1:02:30

they don't really think, but it's

1:02:32

got a better way of accepting

1:02:34

back and forth and refining and

1:02:37

just, you know, giving, getting to

1:02:39

the result you want with fewer

1:02:41

magical wording protections. It fills the

1:02:43

smartest. Yeah. Yeah. Eventually, I would

1:02:46

like to have something like this,

1:02:48

and this is what I mean

1:02:50

by assistive, right? The generation of

1:02:52

this work I have done, and

1:02:55

I will continue doing, every year,

1:02:57

you know, sit down with my

1:02:59

iPad, and I write my review

1:03:01

of iOS and iPadOS. Now, I'm

1:03:04

human. I cannot possibly memorize the

1:03:06

entire text of 10 years of

1:03:08

iOS reviews. But that text is

1:03:10

out there. I would be able,

1:03:13

I would like to be able

1:03:15

to search it. Current search systems

1:03:17

mostly suck. This one is pretty

1:03:19

good, but limited in terms of

1:03:22

amount of text. Yeah. So yeah,

1:03:24

it's remarkable, but limited. In discord

1:03:26

we have discovered that you've basically

1:03:28

written something the length of war

1:03:31

and peace. There you go. Okay.

1:03:33

Which is also a great way

1:03:35

to think about iOS. And I

1:03:37

go to us. I bet you

1:03:40

are. This ad read is made

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EV shared how they're working to

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of Connected and All of Relay.

1:05:12

Yesterday, Mark Herman published a report

1:05:14

on Bloomberg detailing the Apple Home

1:05:16

Hub or like Home Control Center.

1:05:18

Not quite sure what to call

1:05:21

this thing. Basically what German says

1:05:23

is that this is an iPad-like

1:05:25

device that is designed to go

1:05:27

on a wall or with a

1:05:30

stand, you know, in the kitchen

1:05:32

or something like that, that would

1:05:34

give you control of your smart

1:05:36

home and your Apple ecosystem stuff.

1:05:39

And so, this is what he

1:05:41

says, the company's gearing up to

1:05:43

announce the device as early as

1:05:45

March, just wild, and will position

1:05:48

it as a command center for

1:05:50

the home, according to people with

1:05:52

knowledge of the effort. I will

1:05:54

also spot like the new Apple

1:05:57

intelligence AI platform, said the people.

1:05:59

The device has a roughly 6-inch

1:06:01

screen and looks like a square

1:06:03

iPad. It's about the size of

1:06:06

two iPhones side by side with

1:06:08

a thick edge around the display.

1:06:10

There's also a camera at the

1:06:12

top front, a rechargeable built-in battery,

1:06:15

and internal speakers. Apple plans to

1:06:17

offer it in silver and black

1:06:19

options. What do you think, Mike?

1:06:21

March is aggressive. That is exciting

1:06:24

to me. I'm surprised at the

1:06:26

March timeline. I like a lot

1:06:28

of the stuff that he talks

1:06:30

about with creating a kind of

1:06:33

murder. And to be clear, what

1:06:35

he has done with this report

1:06:37

is collect up some previous reporting

1:06:39

and add to it a little

1:06:42

bit. So there's like some details

1:06:44

that are new, like some of

1:06:46

the physical attributes that you could

1:06:48

maybe have like a speaker dark

1:06:51

and you could put it on

1:06:53

the wall. Like these might be

1:06:55

separate. Can you put it in

1:06:57

the shower? You know? We'll find

1:07:00

out, I sure hope so. And

1:07:02

you know, like the release time

1:07:04

frame and stuff is new too.

1:07:06

Things like combining some of the

1:07:09

best parts of the operating systems.

1:07:11

I liked this one thing he

1:07:13

mentioned about like that they might

1:07:15

put some senses in the device,

1:07:18

depending on how far away you

1:07:20

are from the device, whether you're

1:07:22

querying it or just looking at

1:07:24

it, the device may be aware

1:07:26

of people's proximity to it and

1:07:29

like show different types of information.

1:07:31

This feels like a very well

1:07:33

thought out product and it seems

1:07:35

like Apple's doing what they do

1:07:38

best. they do it which is

1:07:40

like combining. and taking from different

1:07:42

parts of the operating systems, right?

1:07:44

So like, take a little from

1:07:47

Vision OS, a little from iPad

1:07:49

OS, a little bit from TVOS,

1:07:51

or essentially all the same thing

1:07:53

anyway, but like, and kind of

1:07:56

being able to mold something interesting

1:07:58

together, I'm happy that this is

1:08:00

the product that they're looking to

1:08:02

do, I'm happy that they're not

1:08:05

starting with the really expensive one

1:08:07

that apparently has a robotic arm,

1:08:09

that I'm pretty sure like... If

1:08:11

he is right, then he will

1:08:14

get to rub this one in

1:08:16

everyone's face, because I think a

1:08:18

lot of people think they're not

1:08:20

going to do something like this.

1:08:23

But in general, we spoke about

1:08:25

it before, this is a product

1:08:27

that I want. I want a

1:08:29

basic version of this, and it

1:08:32

feels like they're going to give

1:08:34

me a little bit more than

1:08:36

that. But actually maybe a lot

1:08:38

more than that and that's amazing.

1:08:41

Like I am happy with just

1:08:43

a device that has a speaker

1:08:45

in like a home pod, right?

1:08:47

That I can talk to the

1:08:50

assistant and it will show me

1:08:52

photos and maybe a shared family

1:08:54

calendar. Like that is all I

1:08:56

want. But it feels like that

1:08:59

they're actually going to go to

1:09:01

the better route of like, hey,

1:09:03

but what if another OS? but

1:09:05

potentially combining this and TVOS I

1:09:08

think is great. I think that

1:09:10

will be good for the Apple

1:09:12

TV too, like to kind of

1:09:14

maybe give it a little bit

1:09:17

more. Yeah, this is great and

1:09:19

I am very enthused by the

1:09:21

idea of having this in my

1:09:23

home within five months from now

1:09:26

because from the previous reporting of

1:09:28

this product I figured this was

1:09:30

probably a, you know, this time

1:09:32

next year kind of thing, rather

1:09:35

than like in five or six

1:09:37

months from now. I'm into it,

1:09:39

I dig it and I really

1:09:41

hope that they do it in

1:09:43

the way that they mention. I

1:09:46

think having it wall mounted is

1:09:48

super interesting. I think it really

1:09:50

opens up the ability like put

1:09:52

this by an exterior door or

1:09:55

like in your entry way and

1:09:57

yes you can. plop it down

1:09:59

on a stand that I'm sure

1:10:01

will be an extra purchase. A

1:10:04

lot of these things are really good

1:10:06

in the kitchen, but they're not good

1:10:08

just in the kitchen. I think it's

1:10:10

really interesting. And in the article talks

1:10:13

about having like a home kit security

1:10:15

cameras up, like you could see you

1:10:17

would maybe want this in other places.

1:10:19

And I think if Apple is using

1:10:21

TVOS or like some combination of things

1:10:24

under the hood, I think that's wise.

1:10:26

We don't need yet another OS. But the

1:10:28

thing, and I couldn't help but notice

1:10:30

it's missing in here, I think that

1:10:32

I think a lot of the people

1:10:34

thought about almost immediately, was like,

1:10:36

what about iPad apps? Like, is

1:10:38

this TVOS plus some widgets plus

1:10:41

some, you know, photo slideshow stuff? And

1:10:43

like, is that enough? Or do you

1:10:45

want more full blown widgets or full

1:10:47

blown apps on it even as like

1:10:49

an escape valve? Like they are on

1:10:51

VisionOS? I'm not quite sure. But it

1:10:53

is interesting that Apple would be

1:10:55

kind of taking... you know, parts of

1:10:58

other OSAs and things they've

1:11:00

done. You know, this is

1:11:02

really close to like standby

1:11:04

mode on the iPhone in a

1:11:06

way. It's all really interesting. I

1:11:09

want one of these things

1:11:11

so bad. Like really, just the

1:11:13

idea of something square

1:11:15

shaped, it seems, that potentially

1:11:18

has a rechargeable

1:11:20

battery base with speakers.

1:11:22

that I can use for music, I

1:11:24

can use for podcasts, and ideally I

1:11:26

can move around, and I can also

1:11:28

use for Face Time calls, because it's

1:11:31

got a camera, and I can use

1:11:33

for stuff like timers, check the

1:11:35

weather, play some music, play some

1:11:37

podcast, and home kit controls, I

1:11:39

mean, yeah, that especially, I would

1:11:41

say, especially if it's portable. Which

1:11:43

seems a little unclear but german

1:11:45

mentions a rechargeable battery So why

1:11:48

would you have a rechargeable battery

1:11:50

unless you're planning to make it

1:11:52

portable around the house? But yeah, I mean, I

1:11:54

do find it interesting that? It

1:11:56

doesn't seem like there's going to be

1:11:58

an app store. Yeah launch. Apple probably

1:12:01

learning the lessons with VisionOS and

1:12:03

being like, hey we don't exactly

1:12:05

have, you know, a message or

1:12:07

you know, or watch was like

1:12:10

we don't exactly have, you know,

1:12:12

let's not do another half empty

1:12:14

app store for now and let's

1:12:16

not ask developers to create apps

1:12:19

for yet another platform. Do you

1:12:21

not think they would just say

1:12:23

it runs iPad apps? Wouldn't why

1:12:25

wouldn't it? No, I don't I

1:12:28

don't think it's gonna run iPad

1:12:30

apps. Why? It sounds small for

1:12:32

iPad apps and also square and

1:12:34

square and square yeah square. I

1:12:37

don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's

1:12:39

complicated right? I've been while we've

1:12:41

been talking about I've been going

1:12:43

backwards and forwards in my head

1:12:46

of like Do I really need

1:12:48

it to have apps? Like there's

1:12:50

some stuff. Yeah, but like for

1:12:52

what I want this thing for?

1:12:55

I think just Apple's apps isn't

1:12:58

enough. But then I think like,

1:13:00

you know, when you were talking

1:13:02

Federico about like podcast, well then

1:13:04

I haven't got overcast on it,

1:13:06

you know. Maybe carplay is the

1:13:08

answer, you know, we've just been

1:13:11

looking at it all along throughout

1:13:13

this entire episode, this is just

1:13:15

going to be carplay. But it's

1:13:17

complicated, right, because like... Having

1:13:21

another destination for apps is

1:13:23

bad, is a bad idea,

1:13:25

right? That is a bad

1:13:27

idea. But having no apps

1:13:29

is also a bad idea,

1:13:31

right? Because then this device

1:13:33

will launch and like, well,

1:13:35

you can't use Spotify? Right?

1:13:37

Like, well, you can airplay.

1:13:39

And like, maybe that's it,

1:13:41

right? Maybe they're like, hey,

1:13:43

well, I want to watch

1:13:45

YouTube. Great, just airplay. Yeah.

1:13:48

And maybe that's fine, right? Maybe

1:13:50

that's fine? And maybe they, you

1:13:53

know, maybe they make it smart

1:13:55

enough with our friend, Apple Intelligence,

1:13:57

that like, you ask for a

1:13:59

video, and it can just... work

1:14:02

it out by getting it from

1:14:04

your phone for you, right? You're

1:14:06

like, I want to watch 5-12

1:14:09

pixels on YouTube, and it's just

1:14:11

like, goes and gets me that

1:14:13

video and just gets, works it

1:14:16

out, right? Like, they said, I

1:14:18

mean, Mark says AI in this,

1:14:20

but like, I'm sure Apple's gonna

1:14:22

say AI in everything. But then

1:14:25

also hilarious, I guess this thing

1:14:27

runs an A17 Pro. Which is

1:14:29

like, way more powered and they

1:14:32

would have wanted for this product

1:14:34

when it was originally conceived. So

1:14:36

yeah, I don't know. The app

1:14:38

thing is complicated because going back

1:14:41

far enough into history, right, we

1:14:43

would say Apple will never launch

1:14:45

a device without an app store

1:14:48

because like, of course, you need

1:14:50

apps. But then the practicality of

1:14:52

Apple in 2024 is like, they're

1:14:55

not necessarily going to build like

1:14:57

you know it felt like for

1:14:59

a while it was like all

1:15:01

Apple had to do was release

1:15:04

a product and the developers will

1:15:06

come and they will do it

1:15:08

and they will make the applications

1:15:11

but I just think that the

1:15:13

last couple of years especially this

1:15:15

year have kind of suggested that

1:15:17

it's not necessarily as simple as

1:15:20

that anymore so yes it will

1:15:22

be a wrinkle that would be

1:15:24

very interesting to see what happens

1:15:27

Yeah, well, if this product actually

1:15:29

happens, I do plan on getting

1:15:31

one. Yeah, same. And especially if

1:15:34

it's portable. Now, any guesses what

1:15:36

they're going to call this? Is

1:15:38

it going to be a home

1:15:40

pod? I think if they don't

1:15:43

call it the home pod, then

1:15:45

they have messed up. This is

1:15:47

home pod. Yeah, home pod Max,

1:15:50

home pod pro. Yeah, I could

1:15:52

see home pod pro. Yeah. The

1:15:54

name is. home pod pro. Yeah,

1:15:56

I mean, it's not above Apple.

1:15:59

We have iPad many parentheses A17

1:16:01

pro flown around. True, true. Home

1:16:03

pod A17 pro, there it is.

1:16:06

Just, it's right in front of

1:16:08

us the whole time. Yeah, yeah,

1:16:10

I think they've got a, I

1:16:12

think they'll tie it in with

1:16:15

the home pod brand. You know,

1:16:17

even if it's not really the

1:16:19

same thing, but I think. I

1:16:23

think home pod has the ability to

1:16:25

extend onto other things like if they

1:16:27

you know There's also that rumor floating

1:16:29

out there like an Apple TV sound

1:16:32

bar combo type thing like all these

1:16:34

things can be in the home pod

1:16:36

family just like airpods Or you know

1:16:38

a whole family of products now to

1:16:40

people understand that and get it Yeah

1:16:42

home pod is a good name too

1:16:45

like it is just like in general

1:16:47

like it is actually a good name.

1:16:49

Yeah wall pod That's a terrible name.

1:16:51

We won't be going with that one,

1:16:53

which means they might go with that

1:16:56

one. I don't know. But like, yeah,

1:16:58

I think creating more products in the

1:17:00

home pod family is fine. Even if

1:17:02

they end up calling this one the

1:17:04

home pod and renaming home pods or

1:17:06

something else. Yeah, maybe. Or killing it.

1:17:09

Yeah, why is that big one stuff

1:17:11

for sale? I mean, just get rid

1:17:13

of that and have the home pod

1:17:15

and it's this one and then the

1:17:17

home pod mini and it's just a

1:17:20

little speaky. I don't know why I

1:17:22

could it speak. Yeah, that was weird.

1:17:24

I don't know what that was for.

1:17:26

I don't know why I said it

1:17:28

and I regret it. And what I

1:17:31

hate sometimes is that the things that

1:17:33

I say are recorded and they're not

1:17:35

just things that I say and everyone's

1:17:37

like, Mike, why did you say that?

1:17:39

And I'm like, I don't know, man.

1:17:41

I'm tired and then we just move

1:17:44

on. Because now I've said it and

1:17:46

it's out there forever. It would run

1:17:48

Little Wigys. Now see, now come on.

1:17:50

Now we're talking Steve. I gotta get

1:17:52

one of these, I gotta get one

1:17:55

of these for work, you know? No,

1:17:57

but like, what do you think though?

1:17:59

Wigets though, would be good, right? It'd

1:18:01

be awesome. I'm reaching into my desk

1:18:03

door and getting underscores credit card out

1:18:05

right. But like seriously though, this would

1:18:08

be a really great widget experience. Yeah,

1:18:10

I mean, that's why I thought about

1:18:12

standby on the iPhone, right? This completely

1:18:14

widget powered experience that yeah, parts of

1:18:16

it are a little like we are

1:18:19

to customize and Why is that not

1:18:21

on the iPad? Nobody knows but like

1:18:23

Apple's been probing around this problem for

1:18:25

a while and I think having the

1:18:27

ability to have your own widgets on

1:18:30

it would be huge. You know, I

1:18:32

thinking about Like you said it, right

1:18:34

like Well, yeah, Apple's apps would be

1:18:36

enough for me. Like, I actually don't

1:18:38

think that's true. And I think if

1:18:40

you have something like this, you would

1:18:43

want Spotify, you would want Ring, or

1:18:45

you would want, you know, whatever other

1:18:47

security systems that are out there, like,

1:18:49

this should be open to everything in

1:18:51

the ecosystem, and which are a great

1:18:54

way to do that in a way

1:18:56

that's not fiddily or like complicated to

1:18:58

use, like, oh, it's like some fun

1:19:00

colorful things to interact with, and then

1:19:02

I can. then I can move on,

1:19:04

right? No one wants to like stand

1:19:07

in their hallway poking their wall computer,

1:19:09

right? This should be glanceable, quick type

1:19:11

things. And with interactivity in widgets, you're

1:19:13

basically there. I will just restate that.

1:19:15

It's like, so in general, yes, this

1:19:18

product should have more than Apple's apps.

1:19:20

I just mean like for what I

1:19:22

personally want it for, like I, all

1:19:24

I need is. my calendar photos and

1:19:26

being able to talk to it like

1:19:29

that's kind of all I want and

1:19:31

have weather and like so I don't

1:19:33

really need more than that personally for

1:19:35

this thing like I wouldn't even use

1:19:37

this for music because I have sonos

1:19:39

throughout the house right so like I

1:19:42

don't need it be cool to control

1:19:44

the sonos from it but that's probably

1:19:46

not gonna happen you know but like

1:19:48

I don't I just for me like

1:19:50

where I imagine this in my life

1:19:53

is replacing My Echo show which is

1:19:55

like the most annoying piece of technology

1:19:57

that is still and is in daily

1:19:59

use and I hate it. But like,

1:20:01

you know, I want to control my

1:20:03

home stuff, right? Well, it's going to

1:20:06

do that. It's in there. And like,

1:20:08

you know, you said you'd need ring,

1:20:10

which is great, but I don't need

1:20:12

that. I have home kit cameras. So

1:20:15

like, for me personally, this

1:20:17

thing, give Apple's current existing

1:20:19

OS ecosystem would give me all I need

1:20:21

to be what I want that product

1:20:23

to be, but it is undoubtedly a

1:20:26

better product by being able to. Use

1:20:28

the podcast app that I like

1:20:30

use the music app that I

1:20:32

like be able to have widgets

1:20:34

from every app that I want

1:20:36

you know like that is a

1:20:38

much better product But I would

1:20:40

personally get by just fine with

1:20:42

Just Apple stuff I think for

1:20:44

what I can imagine I would want

1:20:47

to use this thing for But they

1:20:49

should do anyway should yeah, it's going

1:20:51

to be exciting. I think This

1:20:53

would be a nice addition to a

1:20:56

lot of people's Setups because in

1:20:58

a way Apple has tried to make

1:21:00

TVOS this right over the years,

1:21:02

right? They've added Some smart home

1:21:04

stuff and like you have the

1:21:06

control center in TVOS and some of

1:21:09

the stuff lives over there But You

1:21:11

got to be in front of your

1:21:13

TV and you're using that you

1:21:15

know the serial remote and it

1:21:17

doesn't It's still a TV first and

1:21:19

they've kind of added these other

1:21:21

things to it And I don't think that's

1:21:24

really worked. Like it's nice that that's

1:21:26

there, but it's not super compelling. And

1:21:28

your TV's not in your kitchen or

1:21:30

by your door where you would want

1:21:33

this thing. And so this being smaller

1:21:35

and more flexible and building it for

1:21:37

these sorts of interactions from the beginning,

1:21:39

that's all good. I can know about you guys, like

1:21:41

a lot of like the home screen stuff

1:21:43

and the screen saver stuff and on

1:21:45

it. Like that's great. Like it's nice.

1:21:48

My TV's not on all the time.

1:21:50

Yeah, so I don't leave the TV

1:21:52

on, right? Like I see these things

1:21:54

when the TV's on and we're waiting

1:21:56

to do something, you know, like even

1:21:58

stuff like the you know, ringing,

1:22:00

like when when someone rings my doorbell,

1:22:02

if I have the TV on, it

1:22:04

will show them. Yeah, so HomeKit doorbell.

1:22:06

I've seen it once in two years,

1:22:08

because the likelihood of when I'm watching

1:22:10

TV that somebody rings the doorbell is

1:22:12

that the overlap isn't there. Like I

1:22:15

watch TV later in the evening, like

1:22:17

it's not on in the daytime. So

1:22:19

like, but having this this one device

1:22:21

that would just be. the like the

1:22:23

thing that is in the the place

1:22:25

on the kitchen counter like I look

1:22:27

at it and I know that all

1:22:29

the stuff is there like even just

1:22:31

like the home screen of it make

1:22:33

it the photo lock screen thing with

1:22:35

which is doing the smart like my

1:22:37

watch my beloved watch lockface right like

1:22:39

all of that stuff they've got all

1:22:41

of the component pieces of technology now

1:22:43

it's just a case of bringing them

1:22:45

together which and that excites me because

1:22:47

I think it would be a better

1:22:49

product than the other stuff that I've

1:22:51

done The last thing

1:22:53

I'll say here is that the

1:22:55

March time frame, you know, we

1:22:57

touched on it. So these rumors

1:23:00

have been out there for a

1:23:02

while. It seems like this has

1:23:04

been kind of cooking for a

1:23:06

bit. March seems like an interesting

1:23:08

time to have a new product,

1:23:10

but I also don't think this

1:23:12

probably raises, you know, rises to

1:23:14

the level of like a WWC

1:23:16

keynote before the fall. So like

1:23:19

March is interesting. I could see

1:23:21

it being. That being true and

1:23:23

accurate. I saw another rumor today

1:23:25

of like a potential that that

1:23:27

new iPhone SE With like the

1:23:29

false-green one is also looks like

1:23:31

it's potentially on track for March

1:23:33

So they may have like a

1:23:36

March event. Yeah, well they've got

1:23:38

a few things I dig it

1:23:40

I think it could be a

1:23:42

lot of fun this year March

1:23:44

was the IPo pro Yeah No,

1:23:46

that was me. That was me.

1:23:48

That was me. That was me.

1:23:50

This year in May is what

1:23:53

I said. Yeah, yeah, I think

1:23:55

I think Zoom crackled me. You

1:23:57

misheard me. I'm pretty sure I

1:23:59

see. Again, there was no recording

1:24:01

of this. There is no way.

1:24:03

There's no way to know you

1:24:05

can't hit back an overcast. It's

1:24:07

not possible for anybody to know

1:24:10

so it's fine. Well I think

1:24:12

that does it for this week

1:24:14

on Connected if you want to

1:24:16

check out the things we spoke

1:24:18

about and check out Relay's merch

1:24:20

store we got our holiday shirt

1:24:22

and we've got Mike's face on

1:24:24

a bunch of stuff. All those

1:24:27

links are in your podcast player

1:24:29

and on the web at Relay.fim

1:24:31

slash Connected slash 527. You can

1:24:33

find all of us elsewhere on

1:24:35

the internet. You can find Mike

1:24:37

across a bunch of shows here

1:24:39

on Relay and his work at

1:24:41

Cortex Brand. You can follow him

1:24:43

as I-mic, I-M-Y-K-E across threads, Instagram,

1:24:46

Macedon, etc. Federico is the editor-in-chief

1:24:48

of Mac Stories.net. You can find

1:24:50

him on a bunch of podcast

1:24:52

over there. App Stories is a

1:24:54

must listen for me every week.

1:24:56

I never miss it. It's great.

1:24:58

And you can find him as

1:25:00

Vitichi, V-I-T-I-C-C-C-I. You can find me

1:25:03

as ISM-H-86 online. I write 512pixels.net

1:25:05

and co-host Mac power users here

1:25:07

on Relay each and every Sunday.

1:25:09

I think our sponsors this week,

1:25:11

ECAM, Squarespace, and Smaller World, you

1:25:13

can learn more about them in

1:25:15

the show notes as well. And

1:25:17

until next week, guys, say goodbye.