0:13

That is Cardinal Kevin Farrell,

0:16

Cameron Lingo, or Cardinal Chamberlain

0:18

of the Holy Roman Church,

0:20

announcing the death of Pope

0:22

Francis I. That was

0:24

followed some 17 hours later by

0:27

the right of ascertainment, the

0:29

formal acknowledgement of Francis' death, a

0:31

few of the many centuries -old rituals

0:33

that will play out over the

0:35

next several days as the church mourns

0:38

Pope Francis I. There will

0:40

be the mourning of the faithful

0:42

as Francis' body lies in St. Peter's

0:44

Basilica, a funeral where Francis

0:46

will be remembered by his fellow

0:48

priests, followers, and world leaders, and

0:50

then the conclave, where the

0:52

College of Cardinal meet to choose

0:55

his successor. Consider

0:57

this, Pope Francis has died at

0:59

the age of 88. Now the

1:01

church has to chart a course

1:03

without his leadership, who will be

1:05

his successor and what path will

1:07

he choose? From

1:11

NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. When

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It's Consider This from NPR.

2:40

Monday was a day of mourning

2:42

for the world's billion -plus Catholics.

2:45

Next, the College of Cardinals will

2:47

oversee the church and the transition

2:49

to a new holy father. That

2:51

process culminates in a conclave. I

2:54

spoke to author and journalist Father

2:56

Thomas Reis of Religion News Service

2:58

about the conclave and the election

3:00

of a new pope. How

3:02

are you remembering him today? I

3:04

remember him as someone who

3:06

really changed the culture of the

3:08

church. This is

3:10

a man who hated

3:13

clericalism. He kept telling

3:15

bishops and priests to not act like

3:17

princes, but to be with their

3:19

people. So, like many people listening to

3:21

us, I feel like I know

3:23

how a conclave works because I saw

3:26

the movie last year. What

3:28

should we know about the process that

3:30

is about to unfold? Well,

3:32

all of the cardinal electors will

3:34

be coming to Rome for the Pope's

3:36

funeral. That's 135 cardinals

3:38

who are under the age

3:40

of 80. 80 % of

3:43

those have been appointed by Pope

3:45

Francis. So they will

3:47

gather in the Sistine Chapel

3:49

and twice a day they will

3:51

have a vote. And that

3:53

will be done in silence and

3:55

prayer. Outside of the Sistine

3:57

Chapel, there will be lots of

3:59

conversations about who should be

4:01

a pope. And give

4:03

us a little bit of

4:05

insight into those conversations. What are

4:07

the priorities supposed to be?

4:10

Well, I think each cardinal is

4:12

looking for three things in

4:14

a future pope. First, he wants

4:16

someone who will be a

4:18

good pope, which of course means

4:20

that the candidate agrees with

4:22

the Cardinal on the future of

4:24

the Church. The second thing

4:26

he wants is someone who he has

4:28

good relationship with, because he wants to

4:30

be able to have someone who will

4:32

listen to him after he becomes Pope.

4:35

And finally, he wants someone elected who

4:37

will go down well in his part

4:39

of the world, in his country. Are

4:42

there already names

4:44

circulating? Frontrunners? There's

4:46

lots of names circulating, but there's

4:48

no real front runners. You know,

4:50

when John Paul II was elected,

4:52

it was a big surprise. When

4:54

Francis was elected, it was a

4:56

big surprise. So it

4:58

may be a surprise.

5:02

Does the fact that, as you just

5:04

said, the majority of the cardinals

5:06

who will be eligible to choose the

5:08

next pope, that they themselves were

5:10

appointed by Pope Francis, does...

5:13

influenced the outcome? Does that suggest

5:15

they may want someone in

5:17

his mold? I think it

5:19

certainly is going to influence the

5:21

outcome. We're not going to see someone

5:23

elected who stands up and says

5:25

that the papacy of Francis was a

5:27

disaster and we're going back to

5:29

the old church. That's just not going

5:31

to happen. We will see

5:34

someone who will talk about

5:36

continuity with the legacy of

5:38

Pope Francis. I mentioned the

5:40

movie, Conclave. It includes a

5:42

scene. where we

5:44

see two factions of the church,

5:46

two wings, liberals versus traditionalists, and

5:48

they are vying for control, and

5:50

vying is putting it politely. Is

5:53

that real? Is that divide real amongst

5:55

the cardinals? Well, there are

5:57

some cardinals who are very conservative

5:59

and would like to bring

6:01

the church back to the way

6:03

it was a long time

6:05

ago, but they're in a minority

6:07

today. They make a lot

6:09

of noise, but they are

6:11

not a majority in

6:13

the College of Cardinals, not

6:15

today. How big a

6:17

factor is geography? Much has been

6:19

made of the fact that Francis was

6:21

the first non -European to hold that

6:23

role in a thousand years. Geography

6:25

is extremely important because different parts of

6:27

the world have different concerns. The

6:30

global south is very concerned

6:32

about poverty about the

6:34

economic system, about globalization,

6:36

about wars, and they're concerned

6:38

about migrants and refugees

6:40

trying to find safe places

6:42

to live. On the other

6:44

hand, you know, the people in the North, we're

6:47

very strong on ecumenism. We're

6:49

very strong on having good relations

6:51

with the Jewish community. These

6:53

are important things to us. We're

6:55

very strong on taking care of

6:58

the sex abuse crisis, making sure

7:00

that this does not happen again.

7:02

So there are different priorities

7:04

in different parts of

7:06

the world, but we may

7:08

see how that plays

7:11

out. This selection process

7:13

is about as far from transparent

7:15

as it feels possible to

7:17

get. They will be sealed inside

7:19

the Sistine Chapel. Will we

7:21

ever get visibility into why whoever

7:23

is chosen the next pope

7:26

was chosen? Well, of course,

7:28

when the Cardinals come out, each

7:30

one of them will can talk about

7:32

why he likes the new pope

7:34

or doesn't like the new pope. So

7:36

we'll get that, but we certainly

7:38

will not know how each person votes.

7:41

The Cardinals themselves will not even know

7:43

that. It's a secret ballot and the

7:45

ballots are burned after they're counted. Timing.

7:50

I mean, choosing the next pope will take as long

7:52

as it takes, I guess, but are we likely

7:54

talking what, weeks? We haven't had

7:56

a conclave last more than...

7:58

three days for a hundred

8:00

years. So we would

8:02

expect them to be able

8:04

to get their work done, especially

8:06

because they will have time

8:08

before the conclave to talk over

8:10

dinner and over coffee and,

8:12

you know, in small groups

8:14

about who they think the

8:16

Pope should be. So there's a

8:19

lot of, well, let's call

8:21

it politicking, happening before the Cardinals

8:23

actually gather in the Sistine

8:25

Chapel. Father Tom Reese.

8:27

He's a journalist, author, and Jesuit

8:29

priest. He writes The Signs of

8:31

the Times column for Religion News

8:33

Service. Father Reese, thank you. Good

8:36

to be with you. This

8:40

episode was produced by Tyler

8:42

Bartlem. It was edited by Courtney

8:44

Dornig. Our executive producer is

8:46

Sammy Yenigan. It's

8:50

Consider This, from NPR. I'm

8:52

Mary Louise Kelly. At

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