2:00

culture, political climate,

2:03

their personal experiences, all of those things.

2:05

Lisa, that's so scary. So let's

2:08

stop right there and talk about truth.

2:10

Okay. Truth, Jesus said in John

2:12

17, 17, thy word is truth. Now

2:16

let me just set this up. Okay. The

2:19

garden of Eden, you got the tree of life. What is the tree of life? I

2:22

know that whatever God says is best for me. You got the

2:24

tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That

2:28

is, I know what's best for me. So

2:30

when Eve saw that the tree was good for her,

2:32

okay, it wasn't good for her because God said the

2:34

day you eat is the day you're going to die.

2:36

The serpent lied to her. Serpent deceived her.

2:40

Now eight out of every 10 people

2:42

think that truth can change according to

2:44

how I feel, how I believe, how

2:46

society's going according to culture, society,

2:49

yikes. Because the

2:51

trouble in that is the Bible says that

2:54

the whole world lies under the sway, sway.

2:57

So think about the wind

2:59

swaying something. The whole

3:01

world lies under the sway of the evil. The

3:04

Bible says that the course of this

3:06

world, the course, so think about

3:08

the course that a river runs, is

3:11

according to the prince of the

3:13

power of the air. Yeah. Okay.

3:17

So now I'm going, truth is relative and

3:20

all of a sudden now I'm

3:22

just saying, however, he

3:25

goes, that's going to establish my

3:27

truth. Eight out of every 10 people believe

3:29

that. At least it gets worse. Yeah, it

3:31

didn't, it doesn't turn out well for people

3:33

when they think they're the measure of everything.

3:35

Because the next stat says 46% live in

3:37

stress and anxiety. So

3:40

that means one out of two people

3:43

are saying, my life is filled with

3:45

stress and anxiety. And yet I

3:47

think I'm driving my own boat. Wow.

3:50

Yeah. Okay. That's remarkable.

3:53

Then it gets sad. 70%

3:55

claim that church is irrelevant. Yeah. Okay.

3:59

So that's seven out of. every 10. So we've

4:01

got eight out of every 10 say truth is

4:03

relative. Set out of every 10 is saying church

4:06

is irrelevant.

4:09

And then we've got five out of every 10 they're living

4:11

in stress and anxiety. And is it interesting that Jesus said

4:13

that people's hearts are going to fail them for what's coming

4:15

on the earth. And then it

4:18

says 55% have no Christian influence

4:20

in their life whatsoever. So almost

4:22

you've got a parallel between no

4:25

Christian community, no Christian influence

4:27

and 50% stress and anxiety. And then 26%

4:29

don't trust pastors. Now two of those things

4:32

are on the

4:40

body of Christ. And I feel like God is

4:42

doing that right now. He's cleaning house. He's

4:44

like, okay, but there's been

4:47

misuse. That doesn't mean every single

4:50

pastor should be mistrusted. It

4:52

does mean that Jesus is our saver. You

4:54

know, our family went through a terrible, terrible,

4:57

moral failure. And the church we love, everything

4:59

got turned on its head. And I still

5:02

can remember that you sat down with our

5:04

sons. I was in Canada and you told

5:06

them what happened. And you actually said to

5:08

me that after you told our oldest two

5:11

boys that our oldest son looked at you

5:13

and said, well, this is absolutely

5:15

horrible, but he didn't die for my sins.

5:17

Jesus died for my sins. Yes. So

5:22

that's who we got to put our

5:24

trust in. Yes. Without a doubt. So

5:27

I look at this, Lisa, and

5:29

I'm just, I'm absolutely stunned. And

5:31

I have an understanding of why

5:34

people are so bogged down today,

5:36

so weighed down and

5:38

trying so hard to find

5:40

themselves free. But really a lot of

5:42

this comes back to the

5:44

church. And I'm going to say why I

5:48

believe what the church has felt the pressure

5:50

to do is to make

5:52

its message more relevant to how

5:54

the times are going. So we've

5:56

stayed away from certain truths. We've

5:58

stayed away from certain. mornings in

6:00

order to make people feel more

6:03

comfortable in their state

6:05

of sin. This is what we've

6:07

done in the church. We're thinking, we've

6:09

got to get people to think we're

6:11

relevant. We've got a message of hope

6:13

and love and faith that is relevant.

6:16

We want to protect people from saying,

6:18

no, I don't want anything to do

6:20

with you, church. In reality, what we've

6:22

done is we've altered the message in

6:24

order to make people that are living

6:26

in the world and like the world

6:28

feel comfortable living in the world and

6:31

like the world instead of coming out

6:33

and being separate. Yeah. And I think

6:35

the truth is the Bible is actually

6:37

incredibly relevant. So if you actually preach

6:39

scripture, it is relevant to what's happening

6:41

in our culture today. You and I

6:43

have been reading certain scriptures recently and

6:46

it sounds like they were written for

6:48

this day and this time because the

6:50

word of God is alive and it's

6:52

eternal. It doesn't change and it will

6:54

always speak to us because it is

6:56

the living word of God. So culture

6:59

can change, but the word remains the

7:01

same. So what

7:04

is important for us to do today is to

7:06

do exactly what the apostle Paul said. The apostle

7:08

Paul said, I press towards

7:10

the mark of the high calling of God

7:12

in Christ Jesus. Why would he say

7:14

I have to press? Press

7:17

means what? There's resistance. There's

7:19

opposition. And

7:22

years ago, God gave me this vision that was just

7:24

so profound. It really impacted me. And I wrote about

7:26

this in one of my books and I think this

7:29

is an excellent place for us to talk about what

7:31

both of us have in our hearts today. But

7:34

I saw this vision of a man

7:36

rowing a boat against a river's current

7:38

and this was a pretty strong current.

7:41

There was white water. And immediately I

7:43

knew in my heart that the

7:46

river was the flow of our society.

7:49

And I knew that this was

7:51

a believer that was going

7:54

the direction of the kingdom, going the

7:56

direction of truth. He was straining hard

7:58

to advance. against the flow of the

8:00

water. It was a tough task but

8:03

definitely doable. Other boats,

8:06

bigger and luxurious containing

8:08

parties of people, frequently

8:11

passed him flowing

8:13

downstream. The people on

8:15

these boats were laughing, drinking and

8:17

at ease. Occasionally they would look

8:19

over at the man battling the

8:21

current trying to go upstream and

8:23

they would laugh at him and

8:25

they would mock him and

8:28

on top of mocking he had to fight

8:30

for every inch of progress while the others

8:33

didn't have to do anything. After

8:35

a while the man grew weary. This

8:37

is where we're going today okay? Of

8:40

the mocking and the pressing against the

8:42

current. Tired and discouraged

8:44

he put up the oars. I want

8:46

you to get a vision of that

8:48

all right? For a few moments he

8:51

continued to drift, not drift

8:53

but move because of existing momentum

8:55

upstream right? Then something

8:58

sad and terrible happened. Still

9:01

pointed upstream his rowboat

9:03

began to drift downstream

9:06

along with the current. Shortly

9:08

after the man noticed

9:10

another party boat. This

9:12

one was different from the other party

9:14

boats for like his own rowboat. This

9:17

party boat was pointed

9:20

upstream yet it was

9:22

flowing the opposite direction with the

9:24

current. This boat

9:26

also carried people who were laughing,

9:28

socializing totally at ease. Since

9:31

it was pointed upstream the direction the

9:33

man had wanted to go he decided

9:36

I'm gonna jump on and join with

9:38

them because he'd long for that community.

9:41

They soon became a close-knit group

9:43

and unlike the other party boats

9:45

that faced and traveled downstream this

9:48

pointed upstream but it

9:50

continued flowing downstream with the current. So there's

9:52

so much Lisa in this vision we need

9:54

to talk about. So if

9:58

we as a church If

10:00

we don't preach the truth of the Word of God,

10:03

what's going to happen is we'll

10:05

start flowing with the world, and

10:07

yet we'll still have community. We'll still have

10:10

people that are happy, enjoying themselves. We're

10:12

not against happy community. Oh, no, no, no,

10:14

no, no. Just to be clear. Happy

10:17

is the man. I mean, there's so many scriptures on

10:19

happy. But what I'm saying is, if you look at

10:21

the Psalm, he said, you know, I was going through

10:23

the battles of life and I looked at the sinners

10:26

and I almost lost my way because they were

10:29

carefree, happy, no pressures.

10:31

Malachi said the same thing. When

10:33

you sign up to follow Jesus, you

10:35

sign up for tribulation. Jesus said, in

10:37

this world, you're going to have tribulation.

10:39

Why? Because the whole world flows that

10:42

way. And so

10:44

we have got a situation

10:46

now where so many people in

10:48

the church have wandered from truth,

10:51

and they have now started creating a

10:54

different message that takes parts of

10:56

what the word of God teaches,

10:59

but mixes it in with the culture of today and

11:02

it takes away all the opposition. So there's no

11:04

more pressing, pressing, pressing towards the call, the high

11:07

call of God. So going back to

11:09

those stats, people saying, I'm

11:11

going to be like Eve, I'm

11:13

going to decide what's best for me. I'm going

11:15

to believe that maybe that might have been my

11:18

parents truth, or maybe that might have been the

11:20

religious truth, but I'm going to have my own

11:22

truth. I'm going to live on my own truth.

11:25

You would think if that was freeing for

11:27

them, one out of two

11:29

would not be wrestling with stress

11:31

and anxiety. Right?

11:34

So actually, what I'm

11:36

hearing from you is that

11:38

truth creates boundaries and guardrails

11:41

in our life that actually

11:43

cause us to flourish. So

11:46

that particular dynamic of God's truth.

11:48

Again, I always go back to

11:50

Isaiah 41, where it says God

11:52

will show us the way He

11:54

works so we can live

11:57

the way we were made. and

12:00

I were not made to live our

12:02

lives on our own with

12:04

our own truths, and we're not

12:06

to be self-willed, because that's

12:08

really what the serpent tempted

12:10

Adam and Eve with. You can be like

12:13

God apart from God. You can be your

12:15

own gods, and that's basically what

12:17

people are doing right now. Correct. Correct.

12:19

Now, I really believe that the problem

12:21

stems back from the fact that most

12:23

people don't open their Bibles. I mean,

12:25

statistics show that a very few percentage

12:27

of people actually read their Bibles every

12:29

day. But they just read it on

12:31

Instagram. Isn't that okay just to read

12:33

a meme of the Scripture? Isn't that

12:35

enough? And that's not immersing yourself, because

12:38

we are told that we are conformed

12:41

to this world if

12:43

we don't renew our mind.

12:46

So truth enters our mind, and our

12:48

mind is the one that determines, okay,

12:51

this is the way I'm going, because

12:53

Jesus being invisible, God

12:55

being invisible, you can make up anything

12:58

you want and say,

13:00

oh, Jesus says this, Jesus says that.

13:02

Take a few Scriptures out of context,

13:04

and all of a sudden now you're

13:06

wandering from the overall counsel of Scripture,

13:08

so you're wandering from truth. Right. And

13:10

when you wander from truth, you're in trouble,

13:13

okay? That means it's so

13:15

important that we renew our minds.

13:17

Yeah, absolutely. And I

13:19

was thinking if the boats are

13:22

pointed upstream, they're seeing the same

13:24

thing on the horizon. They're just

13:26

moving further and further away from

13:28

it, which is also confusing, because

13:31

they're going downstream backwards. But yeah,

13:34

and here's the thing. What I'm hearing you say

13:36

is there's resistance,

13:39

and we're to actually expect

13:42

resistance. You know, we're sitting here taping

13:45

for the podcast, and we've got some buff

13:47

men. And the buff men

13:49

that are in this room, they

13:51

built their muscles, not by drifting,

13:54

but by embracing resistance, by

13:56

weight training. And what I'm

13:58

hearing is, work, it

14:02

would be easier to have

14:05

the mix, but God is saying, I

14:07

need you to actually press into the

14:09

resistance that you're going, that, you know,

14:11

that when you, when you go against

14:13

the stream, that's what you're going to

14:15

experience. So I think, so how

14:17

does somebody, what if somebody's like, Oh no, John,

14:19

I think I'm floating downstream right now. I think

14:21

I'm, I'm not even turned

14:23

upstream. I'm floating downstream. How do they make

14:26

that change? What is some of

14:28

the action steps they take? You just, there is

14:30

a genuine repentance and a

14:32

repentance is not a tough word. It just means,

14:34

you know, I've been wrong. This is the way

14:36

my wisdom has been going this way. God's

14:39

wisdom is the other way. I'm going to, I'm going

14:41

to let go of the wisdom I've been walking in

14:43

and I'm going to embrace his wisdom. And

14:46

I look at the seriousness of this Lisa Proverbs

14:48

21 16 says, he who wanders from the way

14:52

of truth or the way of understanding

14:54

will rest in the assembly of the

14:56

dead. So

14:58

in other words, that, that downstream is

15:00

leading to the rest of the assembly

15:02

of the dead. James, people don't like

15:04

to hear those kinds of things. No, the apostle

15:06

James in the new Testament says brethren, if anyone

15:09

among you wanders from the truth and

15:12

someone turns now, let's stop

15:14

a minute. Brethren, if anyone among

15:16

you, he's not, he's not talking to

15:18

he then he's not talking to unbelievers

15:21

brethren. If anyone among you, you

15:23

brethren wanders from

15:26

truth and someone

15:28

turns him back. So there's

15:30

your turning back, turn the boat back around.

15:32

Let's start pressing, pressing. Let him know that

15:34

he who turns a sinner. Now James calls

15:36

him a sinner. And the reason is a

15:38

sinner. There is a person

15:40

who says, I choose what's right for my life.

15:43

Just like Eve self will the garden

15:46

of Eden is so the

15:48

tree of life means I trust God and

15:50

even Adam. I trust that

15:52

God knows what's best in my life because of my creator.

15:54

Yes. The tree of the knowledge of good

15:56

and evil was Eve saying, no, you said that tree is not

15:58

good for me. it because I see

16:00

it's good for me. So sin

16:03

means you're a law unto yourself. I

16:06

determine what's right for me. I determine what

16:08

truth is. I determine what I'm going to

16:10

believe according to how

16:12

our culture is going. All right. So if you wander

16:14

from the truth and someone turns him back, let him

16:16

know that he who turns the sinner away from the

16:19

error of his way will save a soul from death.

16:21

So he who wanders from the way of

16:24

understanding will rest in the assembly of the

16:26

dead. So here's James and Proverbs totally aligning,

16:28

right? And he will cover the multitude of

16:30

sins. This is a serious thing. When Jesus

16:33

says, deny yourself, take up your cross and

16:35

follow me. He's saying, you're going to

16:37

be ridiculed. You're going to be persecuted. People are going

16:39

to hate you. People are going to despise you. People

16:41

are going to make fun of you. They

16:43

are going to hate you because they're going to

16:45

say you're dogmatic. They're going to say you're strict.

16:48

But now listen, if you stay with truth and

16:50

you walk in love, you really care about people.

16:53

You're not going to be deceived. You're not

16:55

going to wander. But the thing is

16:57

what we have done is we've said, I want love,

16:59

but I don't want to stick with the truth because

17:01

truth is going to bring me a lot of persecution.

17:03

I'm going to, I'm going to

17:05

be accused of bringing people in bondage. I

17:07

don't want to be accused of bringing people

17:09

in bondage. No, you're not because

17:12

what looks like freedom ends up

17:14

becoming bondage and what is

17:17

looks like it might be preaching bondage

17:19

will ultimately lead in freedom. As

17:21

long as it's not legalism, which is not legal. Yeah. You

17:23

and I both know what's legalism.

17:25

It's truth without love. Truth without

17:28

love. Absolutely. So if

17:30

you deeply love human beings, you know, I

17:32

saw a very famous minister the

17:34

other day, he made the statement, I deeply

17:36

love human beings. I was so glad he

17:38

said that. Yeah. And

17:40

I believe it's really led him in his

17:43

study of scripture because he, and he, he

17:45

has really presented scripture well and he has

17:47

stayed the course for years and years and

17:49

years. That's awesome. And I think

17:51

it's because of his deep love for people

17:53

combined with the fact that this man loves truth.

17:56

And so what will protect you

17:58

from legalism? is keeping

18:00

a deep, deep love for

18:02

people. And that's what Peter talks about.

18:05

He says, hey, your heart deeply,

18:07

deeply love, love deeply, love each

18:09

other deeply. Peter actually says that

18:12

because of all these warnings he's

18:14

given us, right? Yes. So

18:17

anyway, we wanna encourage everyone

18:19

today. It doesn't matter if

18:21

you get persecuted, it doesn't matter if you get made

18:24

fun of, it doesn't matter if people say that you're

18:26

putting people in bondage. Check your

18:28

heart, you know if you love people. Yeah, and

18:30

it needs to be kind. There is

18:32

kindness. When you love somebody, you're gonna be kind. Yeah,

18:34

love is kind. Yeah,

18:37

but it's not harsh. You can

18:39

be kind and firm without being harsh

18:41

and mean. Yes. Correct. Right,

18:43

because we've all seen both, those things

18:45

play out. So the takeaway from today

18:48

is stay with truth

18:51

and keep your heart passionately in

18:53

love with people and don't be

18:55

afraid of being made fun of

18:58

or being persecuted. It's going to

19:00

happen. So that's

19:02

been our message today. We wanna thank you

19:04

for tuning in and we wanna encourage everybody

19:07

to please rate, review and subscribe to the

19:09

show. When you write a review,

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we might read it, but it also helps other

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people to get connected with

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conversations with John and Lisa. And if

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you haven't done this yet, hey,

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download Messenger X, like truth. What

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was her name? Frozen

19:24

D.F. Frozen D.F. Frozen D.F. Like she

19:26

did or he did. We don't know if this is

19:29

a guy or girl. Like she did. She said her

19:31

and her husband. Download Messenger X, just go to the

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app store and type in Messenger X. Don't put a

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space between the R and the X. Or go play

19:37

if you've got the Android, you can do it the

19:40

same way. You'll get all these courses and all these

19:42

relative messages for our day that have

19:44

truth in it. That's such a hard thing for

19:46

you. And there's also at home with the Beveres.

19:49

Yeah, there's podcasts in there. Which actually help you

19:51

do life at home in relationship

19:55

in not just... Correct.

19:58

Yeah, not being irrelevant.