0:00

We had a son who used to

0:02

hear voices and those voices speaking to

0:04

him were not God, but I said,

0:06

Son, the number one way God speaks

0:08

to you is not by a voice.

0:11

It's by the peace in your heart. So

0:13

I'm going to ask you a

0:15

question. What if you have a

0:17

peace, but it doesn't line up

0:19

with scripture? I'm going to look

0:21

for two things. Number one, in

0:24

my own personal life, I've only

0:26

heard the audible voice of God

0:28

twice. And that's a lot. Because

0:30

usually. Hey everybody, welcome to

0:32

Conversations. I'm John Bevere joined by

0:35

my absolutely lovely wife Lisa. Lisa,

0:37

it's good to see you again.

0:39

And we're talking about something so

0:41

exciting. Yeah. And that is hearing

0:43

from God. And this is, I

0:45

think it's one of the biggest

0:47

requested things we get on our

0:49

Messenger X app. People are looking

0:51

for the course, how to hear

0:53

from God. First of all, we've

0:55

already done one podcast on this

0:57

and I want to establish quickly

0:59

what we said. Number one, God

1:01

still speaks. Yes. Today he still

1:03

speaks. Yes. He didn't stop speaking

1:05

when the Bible was finished. Number

1:08

two, very important. He speaks in

1:10

various ways at various times. Number

1:12

three, he speaks to each individual child

1:15

little differently than he does with

1:17

other children. I always think of

1:19

what God said. to Miriam and

1:21

Aaron, if there's a profit among

1:24

you, I speak to him in

1:26

a vision or dream, not so

1:28

with Moses, I speak to him

1:30

face to face. So he's saying

1:32

there, I'm speaking different to my

1:34

different children. We've learned that experientially

1:37

with four sons. We've communicated differently

1:39

with each of them. I think

1:41

this is so interesting. Our producer,

1:43

Chris Pace, has provided a study

1:45

that Barna did. Lisa, on how

1:48

Americans commonly hear from God. You

1:50

want to run through that? Okay,

1:52

so it says that 52% believe that

1:54

God is speaking by influencing

1:56

or connecting directly with

1:59

their mind. emotion or feelings.

2:01

And so I would say that

2:03

corresponds with having that inner witness.

2:05

Like I feel I don't feel

2:07

good about this. I do feel

2:09

good about this. I feel like

2:12

this idea came to my mind,

2:14

talked to this person, check on

2:16

this person, make a phone call.

2:18

So 52% of the people that

2:20

believe God still speaks, believes he's

2:22

speaking through that way. Forty-one percent.

2:24

believe that God speaks through the

2:27

content of Bible passages they read

2:29

or which was read to them.

2:31

So these are not mutually exclusive.

2:33

He can do through influence, he

2:35

can do it through scripture, people

2:37

reading scripture and a pastor or

2:39

somebody else. reading scripture to them.

2:42

36 believe that God will speak

2:44

through a sign. So like God

2:46

will give them some kind of

2:48

sign like today if I'm going

2:50

out this one this one is

2:52

a little scary for me but

2:54

that God's gonna give me a

2:57

sign and I'm gonna know if

2:59

somebody's gonna bring this up or

3:01

somebody's gonna say this and God'll

3:03

speak to me through that. 34%

3:05

through sermon or teaching content to

3:07

their... immediate situations that could be

3:09

a podcast it could be any

3:12

their pastor right 31 through miraculous

3:14

or unexplainable circumstances or outcome 31%

3:16

through words spoken to them by

3:18

someone else or someone else who

3:20

is speaking for God. So I

3:22

guess I'd be someone saying, I

3:24

really feel impressed. I believe God

3:27

is saying this for me to

3:29

share this with you. 18% through

3:31

a passage, they're read in a

3:33

book other than the Bible, and

3:35

16% through an audible voice or

3:37

whisper, they could actually hear. And

3:39

I'd be really careful with that

3:42

one. We had a son. who

3:44

used to hear voices and those

3:46

voices speaking to him were not

3:48

God's and it took a long

3:50

time but he finally got it

3:52

and he's walking so powerfully in

3:54

it now. but I said, son,

3:57

the number one way God speaks

3:59

to you is not by a

4:01

voice. It's by the peace in

4:03

your heart. And through scripture. And

4:05

one of the things that I've

4:07

lived by, if I feel like

4:09

I heard God speak to me,

4:12

I'm going to look for two

4:14

things. Number one, that witness in

4:16

here, that peace. Number two, it

4:18

lines up with scripture. And, you

4:20

know, you've got- So I'm going

4:22

to ask you a question. What

4:24

if you have a peace, but

4:27

it doesn't line up with scripture?

4:29

It's not God. Okay, what if

4:31

you have no peace, but it

4:33

lines up with scripture? It's still

4:35

I would I would want both

4:37

see I want both but I

4:39

do think because the enemy spoke

4:41

scripture to Jesus Okay, he said

4:43

cash yourself down because the scripture

4:45

says he'll give his angels charge

4:47

of you That was not God

4:49

that was the devil and the

4:51

devil was using scripture to try

4:53

to get Jesus to disobey his

4:55

father. Yeah So Jesus knew enough

4:57

to say it is also written.

4:59

Yeah, so not tempt the Lord

5:01

God. So I've got to have

5:03

the scripture is my number one

5:05

and my peace, my number two,

5:07

and I'm not moving forward until

5:09

I got both. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

5:11

Yeah. I 100% agree. So I

5:13

mean, I feel like there's a

5:15

lot here, but we know that

5:17

the Bible outlines inner witness visions,

5:19

dreams, trances. I want to talk

5:21

about each of them. I think

5:23

it's so important. Okay. Well, then

5:26

do a deeper God who in

5:28

various ways, various times, in various

5:30

ways, right, speaks, right? Spoke to

5:32

the fathers through the prophets, as

5:34

in these last days, spoken to

5:36

us through his son. How does

5:38

he speak to us today through

5:40

his son? First and foremost is

5:42

the inward witness. Of course, the

5:44

word of God again being tough.

5:46

The inward witness. Now, Romans 816

5:48

says, for as many as are

5:50

led by the spirit of God,

5:52

these are the sons of God.

5:54

Now this is interesting. Does that

5:56

mean women can't be led by

5:58

God? These are the sons and

6:00

daughters of God. New living translation

6:02

does it better. Children of God.

6:04

Children of God. Okay. It's really

6:06

interesting, and a lot of people

6:08

don't know this, there's two Greek

6:10

words for sons and daughters, well

6:12

actually sons in the New Testament,

6:14

Technon and Wios. Technon is T-E-K-N-O-N-O-N-Wios

6:16

is H-U-I-O-S. Technon means you're a

6:18

son by mere fact of birth.

6:20

Technically, yeah. Right. So good example,

6:22

I always like to use our

6:24

first child. when Addison was born

6:26

I was a little concerned I

6:28

was really concerned about you because

6:30

you had really had a traumatic

6:32

first birth and I stayed with

6:34

you and then I had the

6:36

pleasure once I knew you were

6:38

well cared for I wanted to

6:40

go see Addison. So I go

6:42

to this nursery and back in

6:44

that day I don't know if

6:46

they still do this do it

6:48

this way. There were like 12

6:50

cribs in there were 12 little

6:52

babies in those 12 cribs and

6:54

you know unless they were Asian

6:56

or Hispanic or African American. There

6:58

were a bunch of Caucasian babies

7:00

that I wouldn't have known is

7:02

my son, but when I looked

7:04

at that crib and it said,

7:06

Bevere, it had his name, that's

7:08

my son, by mere fact of

7:10

birth. I didn't recognize him because

7:12

he looked like me or you

7:14

because he's in the midst of

7:16

a bunch of other babies and

7:18

they all looked about the same

7:20

to me if they were Caucasian.

7:22

However, when he was 12 years

7:24

old... I started seeing habits in

7:26

Addison that reminded me of me.

7:29

Some I wasn't very happy about,

7:31

by the way. And my mom

7:33

one day laughed at me. Oh,

7:35

he is a new and proof.

7:37

Oh, he's totally new and proof.

7:39

But my mom one day was

7:41

laughing hysterically. She said, he's doing

7:43

things that you used to do

7:45

that you don't even do anymore.

7:47

And I'm like, oh my gosh.

7:49

And I realize now you can

7:51

tell he's a son by the

7:53

fact that he's got traits that...

7:55

are imitating of his father's traits

7:57

or his mother's traits. That's the

7:59

word weas. So tecton is the

8:01

fact that baby is mine because

8:03

the name is on there by

8:05

mere fact of birth. Weas means

8:07

he now starting to display the

8:09

character of his father and mother.

8:11

Interesting... everyone is not led by

8:13

the spirit of God. It's the

8:15

mature sons. So immature Christians have

8:17

a struggle being led by the

8:19

spirit of God. Now, Romans 816,

8:21

the two verses later it says,

8:23

for the spirit himself bears witness

8:25

with our spirit. There's the number

8:27

one way he's going to lead

8:29

us. That inward. witness outside of

8:31

scripture you're saying yes okay right

8:33

outside of scripture right that's the

8:35

inner witness and that is a

8:37

lot of people refer to that

8:39

as our conscience And I

8:41

find it so amazing. The Bible

8:43

says when we're born again, our

8:45

consciences are sprinkled with the blood

8:47

of Jesus. Because they can get

8:49

seared. Life can see your conscience.

8:51

Because when you're young, you're tender.

8:53

Yes. Your tender. And then life

8:56

happens, you lie, there's sin, there's

8:58

stuff. And your conscience gets... seared

9:00

and then you aren't tender. And

9:02

so when somebody confronts you, you

9:04

make excuses. Whereas when your conscience

9:06

is tender, like a child, you're

9:08

like, I'm sorry I did do

9:10

that. So I find it interesting

9:12

and this is what sparked my

9:14

attention to it. I did a

9:16

whole study on conscience in the

9:18

New Testament. It's like 33 times

9:20

it appears. But I found what

9:22

was so interesting is that Paul

9:24

said. that what he did his

9:26

entire life was to protect his

9:28

conscience. I thank God whom I've

9:30

served with a pure conscience. This

9:32

is the very last letter he

9:34

writes in the Bible, Second Timothy.

9:36

And I realize that when the

9:38

writer of Hebrew says that when

9:40

we're born again our conscience are

9:42

sprinkled with the blood of Jesus,

9:44

our conscience is tender. It's open.

9:46

The conscience is the connection place

9:48

where the Holy Spirit speaks... speaks

9:50

to us. This is where our

9:53

mind picks it up. Hey everybody,

9:55

we'll get back to this episode

9:57

in just a moment, but first

9:59

we want to thank all the

10:01

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10:31

Now, let's get back to

10:34

the program. So we start with

10:36

a clear conscience. Our job

10:38

is to keep it clear. How do we

10:40

not keep it clear? Sin.

10:42

Disobedience to God. Gossip. Unforgiveness.

10:44

Strife. Okay. What happens is

10:47

we now start putting a

10:49

veil over our conscience. We

10:51

now start. What do I want

10:53

to say, taking away its tenderness,

10:55

taking away its sensitivity? Right, right.

10:58

So how interesting that Paul said,

11:00

my number one thing I did

11:02

for me personally is I kept

11:04

a clear conscience. Yeah, yeah, I love

11:06

that. Okay, and then visions, we see

11:09

that in acts 2017, we see that

11:11

Peter had a vision, on acts 10,

11:13

9 through 15, he saw God bringing

11:15

down this incredible array of animals that

11:18

were all on clean. He's like, I

11:20

don't do unclean. And God was trying

11:22

to say, hey, wait a minute, not

11:25

only have I sent my son to

11:27

be redemption for the Jews, but also

11:29

for your unclean Gentile friends, which would

11:32

include us. And so he was saying,

11:34

hey, don't call unclean what I

11:36

have. cleaned. And so that it

11:38

took how to take that kind of

11:41

intensity of vision. And it was setting

11:43

him up for who was coming to

11:45

his house and asking for prayer. Yeah,

11:47

it was pretty amazing. And I think

11:50

we got to be, we can even

11:52

break it down further. Visions can happen

11:54

in a few ways. Yeah. Because he

11:56

was a wait, kind of half of

11:58

sleep, half a week. Yeah, it actually calls

12:01

it a trance. A trance. So all

12:03

of his facilities were in operation. He's

12:05

fully awake and he sees something. It's

12:08

like everything goes away and he sees

12:10

something. So it's kind of like a

12:12

trans vision combined. Okay. Okay. There's visions

12:15

that we have in our spirit. I've

12:17

had visions in my spirit where you

12:19

see something so clearly in your spirit.

12:22

Nothing's changing here. But it's changing here

12:24

with Peter. It changed here outwardly. He

12:26

literally saw it coming down So there's

12:29

spiritual visions. There's open visions and trances

12:31

That's when we're awake and then there's

12:33

night visions member Paul dreams. Yeah, he

12:35

had the Macedonian man and he said

12:38

please come over and help us and

12:40

when Paul woke up He shared it

12:42

with his team and the whole team

12:45

determined, hey, we're supposed to go over

12:47

here because they had tried to go

12:49

to Bithynia, they had tried to go

12:52

to another place in Asia, and the

12:54

spirit of God forbade them, both of

12:56

them. Then he had that dream. And

12:59

he says, we determined this is where

13:01

the Holy Spirit wanted us to go.

13:03

Yeah, and Joseph had a dream that

13:06

actually ended up being rescued to his

13:08

people. And then we also see Nebuchnezer

13:10

had a dream. Yep, yep, yep, absolutely.

13:13

Okay, and we've already had audible voices.

13:15

Now, that's pretty rare. Again, I love

13:17

that you've already highlighted that, but some

13:20

people have heard audible voices. I never

13:22

have, but some people have. Scripture, scripture,

13:24

again, we're never going to back away

13:26

from saying scripture, scripture, scripture, scripture, God

13:29

wants to speak to you through scripture.

13:31

And you know, I've said it before

13:33

in a podcast. You told me before

13:36

I read scripture to pray that. God

13:38

would speak to me not just read

13:40

the scripture but that I would read

13:43

the scripture and God's Holy Spirit would

13:45

highlight certain things and speak to me

13:47

through the passages in the Bible. So

13:50

I love that. So we're going back

13:52

to something. Yeah. Which one? We're going

13:54

back to. So the audible voice. Let's

13:57

talk about that for a minute. I

13:59

almost feel like, how do I say

14:01

this in a way that I don't

14:04

want to dishonor this way of God

14:06

communicating to us? But it's almost like

14:08

he has to do it if it's

14:11

like we're really not listening. You're saying

14:13

it's an attention getter? It's an attention

14:15

getter. I think of how God said.

14:17

So maybe not like wait, hold on

14:20

going back to what you said before.

14:22

We focus in an audible voices when

14:24

we're not focused and God's like, slapping

14:27

us up the side of the head

14:29

like, hey, listen up. Is that what

14:31

you're kind of saying? Yeah, you know,

14:34

okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna use two

14:36

examples and maybe the examples will help

14:38

me say it better than me trying

14:41

to define it. In my own personal

14:43

life, I've only heard almost like the

14:45

audible voice of God twice. And that's

14:48

a lot. And the second time is

14:50

what I want to point out is

14:52

when for months and months and months

14:55

I was in unforgiveness with someone. And

14:57

I remember I got to the point

14:59

of exasperation and I was on a

15:01

four-day fast and I just walked out

15:04

in the back deck and said, God

15:06

am I offended? And I heard audibly.

15:08

Yes! So strong. Another friend of mine

15:11

was believing God to be free from

15:13

cigarette smoking. He was smoking four packs

15:15

a day. He was so addicted. I

15:18

don't even know how you do that.

15:20

I don't either. He was fasting and

15:22

praying. He was every single, every single

15:25

elder that came to his church. He

15:27

was going up there and saying, please

15:29

pray for me to be delivered from

15:32

cigarette smoking. And he watched a friend

15:34

of his get delivered in one night,

15:36

radically saved and delivered. And he was,

15:39

he said, John, I was angry at

15:41

God. I was angry at God. And

15:43

he said, drop my friend off, I

15:46

was very genuinely happy, my friend got

15:48

saved. I'd been wanting... He said, but

15:50

I started in and he said, I

15:52

said, God, I have fasted, I have

15:55

prayed, I have humbled myself. And he

15:57

said, I screamed out, why haven't you

15:59

delivered me? And I'll never forget when

16:02

he shared it with me. He said,

16:04

John, it came over. I think he

16:06

said, my left shoulder. When I screamed

16:09

out, God, why haven't you delivered me?

16:11

He said, I heard the voice say,

16:13

because you still like them. And he

16:16

put that lit cigarette out in his

16:18

hand. Well it's been an ashtray probably

16:20

not in his hand. Well it was

16:23

in his hand put it out in

16:25

the ashtray and he said I never

16:27

ever smoke another cigarette again and he

16:30

said I didn't even go through withdrawals.

16:32

How do you not go through withdrawals

16:34

smoking four packs a day for years?

16:37

Yeah. So God was getting his attention,

16:39

look you are trying hard, you're really

16:41

seeking me. So it's almost like... God

16:43

said, I'm going to step in and

16:46

I'm going to really get your attention

16:48

with this. Yeah. Because all of his

16:50

fasting, all of his reading the Bible,

16:53

all of his asking people to pray

16:55

for him, none of that was getting

16:57

his attention the fact that he still

17:00

liked it. Nothing was getting my attention

17:02

that nothing was getting my attention that

17:04

I wasn't admitting I was offended, I'm

17:07

not offended, I'm not offended. But I

17:09

keep fasting and praying and crying and

17:11

crying out to God and finally God

17:14

said, I got to get your attention.

17:16

I got to get your attention. So

17:18

I got to get your attention. That's

17:21

not a way you really want to

17:23

look for God to be speaking to

17:25

you. Because usually you're in a place

17:28

where he just says, I gotta step

17:30

in here because you've been seeking me

17:32

like. like beating in the air with

17:34

a blindfold on. So go ahead, I'm

17:37

sorry, I just, I felt like that

17:39

was important to point out. I think

17:41

it's great. Parables and symbolism. Again, I

17:44

think that there can be symbolic meanings

17:46

and dreams. There can be something that

17:48

you see that awakens something in you,

17:51

you know, mountain or just like something

17:53

that you see in nature that's calling

17:55

to you or some symbol. What's an

17:58

example of that in your life? I

18:00

think when I saw the lineness in

18:02

my dream. when God said the birth

18:05

of the sun yaw waken a lioness.

18:07

The lioness was a symbol of feminine,

18:09

protective, nurture, and strength to me. It

18:12

was the beauty of womanhood in so

18:14

many ways. So I would say that

18:16

would be that for me. Wow. Peace.

18:18

Again, I feel like that goes with

18:21

the, again, peace. A piece that passes

18:23

understanding, like it doesn't make sense in

18:25

my head, but I have a piece

18:28

about going forward with this. That would

18:30

kind of be cousins with the inner

18:32

witness. You know Lisa our messenger X

18:35

app I mean I will never forget

18:37

we started spending money on that it

18:39

ended up being almost twice as much

18:42

as what we thought we were going

18:44

to spend it went up in the

18:46

millions always always and I remember I'm

18:49

thinking we're putting millions of dollars in

18:51

this suppose nobody downloads this and you

18:53

were even asking me John why are

18:56

we spending on all this money who

18:58

is going to download this and I

19:00

had an overwhelming peace in my spirit

19:03

and that was what kept me. Otherwise,

19:05

I think I would have listened and

19:07

said to the voice of reason at

19:09

that point and said, we're stopping this.

19:12

This is just, this is, it felt

19:14

like it felt like we were just

19:16

kept pouring more and more and more

19:19

and more. to the million to the

19:21

point of millions and our donors were

19:23

so gracious and and we have seen

19:26

how many downloads now it's it's well

19:28

over three million I mean we're getting

19:30

24 about 24,000 brand new people every

19:33

week downloading it and on average a

19:35

hundred and seventy nations a day use

19:37

messenger X and many of these nations

19:40

don't have a book in their language

19:42

no that's amazing yeah so so that

19:44

piece is what kept me through those

19:47

18 months And you and I had

19:49

some come to Jesus talks together. But

19:51

it's mostly me being like scared. You

19:54

had good read because you were voicing

19:56

things I was concerned about. Believe me.

19:58

But in here I had an overwhelming.

20:00

Now that goes with Colossus 315. Let

20:03

the peace of Christ rule in your

20:05

heart. And in the amplified it says

20:07

as an umpire and an umpire makes

20:10

decisions. Yeah. So yeah it's good or

20:12

it's to strike out. Hey everyone I

20:14

want to tell you about something very

20:17

exciting that Lisa and I just love

20:19

and that is there is a company

20:21

called Good Ranchers. This company is owned

20:24

by a man and wife who actually

20:26

were in ministry, but they felt called

20:28

to feed families. Do you know that

20:31

every 37 minutes, a small farm in

20:33

America closes? And so what they're doing

20:35

is connecting small farms with families that

20:38

need food. All of us need food.

20:40

We need good clean meat. And John,

20:42

right now, they are making sure that

20:44

this is an easy thing for you

20:47

to do. It's called Spring Into Action.

20:49

on meat that is hormone-free, antibiotic-free, healthy

20:51

race, and you're helping the American economy.

20:54

We are so excited about that because

20:56

we feel like it's a win for

20:58

the farmers, it's a win for you,

21:01

and it's a win for this company

21:03

that loves the kingdom of God. So

21:05

we want to encourage you to go

21:08

to good ranchers.com, American meat delivered. Okay,

21:10

desires and knowing. feel like the knowings

21:12

is kind of like the inner witness

21:15

like I have a piece I know

21:17

it's going to be okay it doesn't

21:19

make sense yeah but I know we're

21:22

supposed to do this way yeah okay

21:24

and then desires Philippines, 213 says, it

21:26

is God who works in you both

21:29

to will and to do according to

21:31

his good pleasure. I also think that

21:33

God will give us the desires of

21:35

our heart. I think God drops his

21:38

desires into our heart. It's not about,

21:40

hey, I want this thing. So God

21:42

give it to me. I think God

21:45

will, if we're aligned with him in

21:47

prayer and in the word, God will

21:49

give us certain desires for things that

21:52

he wants to see worked out in

21:54

our eyes. So I love that. So

21:56

this is a lot and then let's

21:59

talk about some of the blockages. We've

22:01

talked. about how he talks we've highlighted

22:03

this before and I just want to

22:06

it's worth it's worth going over again

22:08

distractions busyness like our church right now

22:10

is doing a digital fast and I

22:13

can't even remember how many times they

22:15

said people pick up their phone like

22:17

57 times a day so if you

22:20

can remove certain things from your vision

22:22

you don't constantly be picking it up

22:24

so I remember Lisa in the

22:26

2020 election, I went down a

22:29

wormhole. Yes, you did. And oh my

22:31

gosh, it was, I'll never forget it.

22:33

It was two months of absolute just,

22:35

I lost my piece. Yeah. And I'm

22:38

listening to all the major

22:40

news networks. I'm trying to figure

22:42

out what's going on. And you

22:45

had friends that were sharing

22:47

information with you. Sending me.

22:50

podcast after podcast after

22:52

news report after news

22:54

report from major networks

22:56

to you know minor

22:58

networks minor networks that

23:00

were small platforms and

23:03

I Just it's still my piece

23:05

and I remember when this

23:07

thing was all over and half

23:09

no 70% of the things that were

23:11

said were going to be done

23:13

weren't done. I realized it was

23:16

like the holy spirit of my

23:18

eyes and said Get rid

23:20

of this stuff. And so

23:22

I removed the apps on my

23:25

phone. I removed those Those

23:27

major news network apps.

23:29

I got them off I

23:31

said only I stopped watching

23:34

them on our television and

23:36

I went four years without

23:38

even looking at a major news

23:40

network either app or television yeah

23:43

I think a lot of people

23:45

got distracted things open up for me

23:47

because then COVID hit in 2020 right

23:49

at right after that because this was

23:51

2019 when I went into the wormhole

23:53

did you go to the wormhole yeah

23:56

the wormhole that was between November

23:58

and January of 20 2019 2020,

24:00

January 2020, March 2020, COVID hits.

24:02

And I remember I said, well,

24:04

I'm gonna make a goal. I'm

24:06

gonna get, I wanna get in

24:08

the presence of God every single

24:10

day this year. And when COVID

24:12

hit, I stopped listening to the

24:14

news and I started hearing God

24:16

really clearly and experiencing his presence.

24:18

I can't stress this enough. Some

24:20

of you need to remove some

24:22

things from your phones. Just get

24:24

rid of them. It doesn't make

24:26

them evil. It just means they

24:28

are not expedient. If they're lying,

24:30

they may be borderline evil. Yes.

24:32

Okay, so distractions, competing voices, you've

24:34

got so much noise going on.

24:36

If we want to hear from

24:38

God, we've got to remove the

24:40

competition. And it's not that God

24:42

doesn't want to speak to us.

24:44

Again, You need to tune in.

24:46

Well, I think one of the

24:48

big things that keeps us from

24:50

hearing from God is a hardened

24:52

heart. And Hebrews Chapter 3 is

24:54

clearly written to Christians and it

24:56

says, be careful, exhort one another

24:59

daily, lest any of you be

25:01

hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

25:03

Your hearts be hardened by the

25:05

deceitfulness of sin. So this is

25:07

where sin is really bad. It

25:09

hardens your heart. When your heart's

25:11

hard, what? Your conscience has been

25:13

seen. Now your conscience is not

25:15

hearing is not hearing. on peace,

25:17

what's on peace, help me. What

25:19

do you call it? Anxiety, anxiety,

25:21

anxiety. And now you can't hear,

25:23

even though God is speaking, you

25:25

can't hear. Yeah. Because your receiver,

25:27

whether, you know, like we were

25:29

illustrating, is not tuned in. No,

25:31

you got a bunch of static

25:33

going on. So one of the

25:35

biggest things that I find that

25:37

really keeps us from hearing, the

25:39

voice of God, is unforgiveness. So

25:41

if I'm gossiping about people you

25:43

can forget about hearing the voice

25:45

of God because he says it's

25:47

an abomination. Yeah and he loves

25:49

people. Yes, he loves people, but

25:51

okay. It's an abomination. These six

25:53

things the Lord hates. And the

25:55

seventh one is an abomination. And

25:57

that's those that's so discord among

25:59

brothers. Brethren. Gossip. Oh my gosh.

26:01

Why don't we preach this more?

26:03

I mean, I try. I feel

26:05

like a knife hits me if

26:07

I say something wrong about somebody.

26:09

I mean, but that's because your

26:11

heart is tender. When your heart

26:13

is hot, but when your heart's

26:15

hard, you don't feel the knife.

26:17

You'll be like, yeah, I'm right.

26:19

I need to call this out.

26:21

This needs to be. And you

26:23

know, I'm right. I need to

26:26

call this out. This needs to

26:28

be. And you know, and I

26:30

was had the opportunity to minister

26:32

this. people out you're usually talking

26:34

about where they failed instead of

26:36

saying come on who's on the

26:38

Lord's side let's let's live holy

26:40

let's understand that his mercy is

26:42

new every single morning and let's

26:44

move forward so we don't want

26:46

hard heart we don't want stony

26:48

ground we don't want thorny ground

26:50

and we don't we want good

26:52

soil let's talk about those because

26:54

we're going too fast yeah hard

26:56

ground is our heart's been hardened

26:58

by the deceitfulness of scent the

27:00

word is stony ground what is

27:02

stony ground It's shallow. It's shallow.

27:04

The seed goes in. Sproughts up

27:06

quickly. You don't have the endurance.

27:08

The staying power. The sun burns.

27:10

Okay. Thorny ground. The cares of

27:12

this world. The deceitfulness of riches.

27:14

The desires for other things. Joke

27:16

it out. So it's not necessarily

27:18

a sin. It's like I'm watching

27:20

too much NFL. I'm watching all

27:22

the training on the NFL. Have

27:24

you been doing that? No. I

27:26

have been careful, although I do

27:28

like my Detroit lines. I don't

27:30

want to get all entangled. Okay,

27:32

good soil. What's the good soil?

27:34

I'm keeping my heart tender. Yes.

27:36

Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. No,

27:38

it's cleared. of stone. I was

27:40

not going to skip this. It's

27:42

been it's been plowed. It's been

27:44

letting God do some work, get

27:46

rid of the stony things, break

27:48

up the fallow ground, let the

27:50

rain of the Holy Spirit, maybe

27:53

some crying, go on and give

27:55

that moisture to the ground so

27:57

we can receive the seeds that

27:59

are planted. And then idols, idols

28:01

in the heart. Now this one's

28:03

amazing to me. Ezekiel 14. And

28:05

God says. Then some of the

28:07

leaders of Israel visited me. This

28:09

is verse one through four. This

28:11

is Ezekiel talking. Yeah, this is

28:13

Ezekiel. And while they were sitting

28:15

with me, this message came to

28:17

me from the Lord, son of

28:19

man. These leaders have set up

28:21

idols in their heart. Do you

28:23

know that's the only place I

28:25

can find in the Old Testament?

28:27

There says set of idols in

28:29

their heart. In their heart. Everywhere

28:31

else it's under the green trees

28:33

on every hill. It's in the

28:35

temple of the Lord. They've set

28:37

up idols in their heart. Now,

28:39

an idolatry is covetousness, the Bible

28:41

says in the New Testament. So

28:43

in other words, they're coveting something,

28:45

right? They love, they love the

28:47

things of this world more than

28:49

they love the things of God.

28:51

Did you see the next sentence?

28:53

They have embraced things that will

28:55

make them fall into sin. Yeah.

28:57

Wow. Okay, why should I listen

28:59

to their requests? This is God

29:01

speaking. Tell them, this is what

29:03

the Sovereign Lord says. The people

29:05

of Israel have set up idols

29:07

in their hearts and fallen into

29:09

sin, and then they go to

29:11

a prophet asking for a message.

29:13

So, I, the Lord, will give

29:15

them the kind of answer their

29:18

great idolatry deserves. In other words,

29:20

just in another one, say, I'll

29:22

say two thirty to the idols.

29:24

If the prophet is induced, in

29:26

other words, if the pastor, the

29:28

minister, the evangelist is like, oh,

29:30

you're fine. or they bring up

29:32

the diviner's fee, or the profit

29:34

is scared. God says, I'll speak

29:36

to them according to the idol

29:38

of their heart. I will answer

29:40

them according to that idol. So

29:42

in other words, I'll give them

29:44

what they want to hear. Yeah,

29:46

and he says, what will it

29:48

do? What will it do when

29:50

he tells them what they want

29:52

to hear? It says that both

29:54

the profit and the hearer will

29:56

go into deception. that you put

29:58

before God. I think it's very

30:00

simply defined. We could say something

30:02

that we give our strength to

30:04

or draw our strength from outside

30:06

of God. So good. Outside of

30:08

God. First John, if you want

30:10

an actual scriptural definition, first John

30:12

chapter 5, the very last verse

30:14

says, if you look at the

30:16

new living, it says, little children,

30:18

keep yourselves from anything that would

30:20

take the place of Jesus in

30:22

your heart. Wow, that's easy. Okay

30:24

examples of idolatry. Okay, we see

30:26

he's like hey, hey, listen, I

30:28

can't curse them because God has

30:30

blessed them, but I can get

30:32

you to position, send your women

30:34

in, it'll position them under the

30:36

curse of God, send your women

30:38

in there with sexual sin and

30:40

the idols, and then that will

30:42

cause them to be. He wanted

30:45

the big offering that King Balak

30:47

was bringing him, and it even

30:49

goes before that, because when the

30:51

nobles from King Balak first came,

30:53

he said, I'll pray about this

30:55

and that night God said, who

30:57

in the world are these guys?

30:59

They have no covenant with me.

31:01

They want you to curse my

31:03

covenant people. Why do you even

31:05

need to ask me about this?

31:07

And so God says, just in

31:09

case you're not getting what my

31:11

desire is on this, you shall

31:13

not go with them. You shall

31:15

not curse the people. So he

31:17

gets up and says, I cannot

31:19

go. So in other words, the

31:21

word of God's restraining me. It's

31:23

not my delight. It's restraining. They

31:25

go back to the king. I

31:27

want to go. I'm not allowed

31:29

to go. Now the king sends

31:31

more money, more honor, right? Yeah.

31:33

And Bailam says, hey, he can

31:35

offer me everything he's got, but

31:37

I cannot go beyond the word

31:39

of the Lord, my God. But

31:41

let me pray about it one

31:43

more time. That night he prays

31:45

about it, and God says. goes,

31:47

go ahead and go with him.

31:49

So in other words, he just

31:51

said, you shall not go with

31:53

him, you shall not curse the

31:55

people. They're blessed. Nice is go

31:57

ahead and go. You're like, now,

31:59

he has the word of the

32:01

Lord to go, and he gets

32:03

on his donkey the next day,

32:05

and the Bible says, God's angry

32:07

because he's going. God's not schizophrenic.

32:09

He answered bailim according to the

32:12

idol that was in his heart.

32:14

Oh. kill him and the donkey

32:16

saves him and bail him's like

32:18

beating his donkey and the donkey's

32:20

talking and he's not even picking

32:22

up and the angel's like hey

32:24

hey this donkey has just saved

32:26

you basically not even noticing that

32:28

he's talking it's crazy but I

32:30

also want to say we've got

32:32

hobby's recognition relationships over God but

32:34

also pornography is an idol. Oh

32:36

my gosh wanting to get married

32:38

is an idol. Yeah. Money is

32:40

an idol. We know we know

32:42

all these things. Money in itself

32:44

is not an idol. Why don't

32:46

you get married in itself is

32:48

not a idol? But greed is

32:50

an idolatry. Yeah. So so in

32:52

other words it's when Our desire

32:54

to get married outweighs everything else.

32:56

It totally dominates our thinking. Let's

32:58

put it into the bailim thing.

33:00

God tells you, no, don't date

33:02

this girl. No, don't date this

33:04

guy. But you're like, but God,

33:06

I don't want to be alone.

33:08

Please, please, please, let me, OK.

33:10

You can date him. Yep. OK.

33:12

Practical advice. We need to approach

33:14

God with a neutral. And can

33:16

I just say obedient heart? neutral

33:18

and obedient. Okay, so another way

33:20

we don't hear from God's sin

33:22

and disobedience. Sin and disobedience, which

33:24

I feel like we've already covered

33:26

that one. Yeah. And then what

33:28

do we need to do? So

33:30

practical advice going forward. Okay? Evaluate

33:32

your life. Okay. What do I

33:34

mean by that? The Paul said,

33:36

examine yourself to see if you're

33:39

in the faith. I do evaluations

33:41

constantly, but now if you get

33:43

so self-focused. you really can get

33:45

off. So it's a quick checkup.

33:47

Okay? Is my heart tender? Do

33:49

I find myself being... hardened towards

33:51

certain things. And you're asked, can

33:53

I just say married couples can

33:55

evaluate each other too? I feel

33:57

like you've been a source of

33:59

evaluation to me. Like you have

34:01

been for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:03

Because we know that each of

34:05

us are committed to increasing godliness.

34:07

And so if- So self-evaluation, spouse

34:09

evaluation. Exactly. But if either of

34:11

us see that one of us

34:13

is violating what we have said

34:15

with one another that, hey, I

34:17

want to have more sacred space,

34:19

and then you're like, yeah, you

34:21

said you want to more sacred

34:23

space, but I'm seeing Pinterest space.

34:25

We lift each other back to

34:27

what we said. was our greatest

34:29

desire. Be intentional. Schedule time with

34:31

God daily. And there's so many

34:33

young moms that are like, I

34:35

feel at this. You can have

34:37

time at night. If you're in

34:39

a season where your babies are

34:41

getting up, you can get time

34:43

with, get time when the babies

34:45

are napping, get time when your

34:47

children are on bed, just make

34:49

sure that you give yourself space

34:51

and margin. Why can't you pray

34:53

also while your breastfeeding feeding? Of

34:55

course you can. wonderful for your

34:57

baby to hear. Your mother, its

34:59

mother, his or her mother, crying

35:01

and crying out to God, or

35:03

praying over your child. Repent and

35:06

obey. Repent means you turn in

35:08

the opposite direction. Into the wisdom

35:10

of God. Into the wisdom of

35:12

God, away from the foolishness and

35:14

towards the wisdom and obey. Whatever

35:16

God is saying, you obey him.

35:18

And it's not hard. You can

35:20

be disobedient one day and obedient

35:22

the next day. You can be

35:24

hardened, hearted. One day. And you

35:26

can turn and say God. clean

35:28

heart and renew a steadfast spirit.

35:30

God take away I'm so sorry

35:32

I've allowed my heart to be

35:34

hardened by sin to be jaded

35:36

with unbelief God will you forgive

35:38

me and God will say okay

35:40

I'm going to take out that

35:42

heart that's gotten so hard and

35:44

we're going to make it tender

35:46

again and so God can do

35:48

that and John I love that

35:50

we get to be part of

35:52

helping them with a course. Yeah,

35:54

yeah. So there, again, if you

35:56

didn't hear it earlier, there is

35:58

the hearing God course and we

36:00

brought in. On Messenger X. On

36:02

Messenger X. So we bought in

36:04

experts, we brought in people, we

36:06

had conversations, runs. The truth is,

36:08

we want you to hear. the

36:10

voice of God for yourself. So

36:12

Messenger X, go to App Store,

36:14

go to Google Play if you

36:16

got an Android. Just type in

36:18

Messenger X, it'll be there. There's

36:20

a lot of people have downloaded

36:22

it. It'll come up. And the

36:24

thing is that the course is

36:26

called Hearing God. And then we

36:28

also have notes. So in this

36:30

podcast, you'll see a link. It

36:33

has actually the notes that you

36:35

can review what we've talked about.

36:37

Yeah. I feel pretty good about

36:39

what we've talked about in the

36:41

sense of we've covered some really

36:43

important points. Absolutely. And I just

36:45

want to close with this. God

36:47

wants to speak to you individually.

36:49

Yeah. God wants to speak to

36:51

your family. God wants you to

36:53

hear from him more than you

36:55

even want to hear from him.

36:57

I want you to believe that

36:59

I want you to come to

37:01

God believing that he is and

37:03

that he will speak to you.

37:05

Whatever that looks like. I don't

37:07

want you to have fear about

37:09

that. I want you to... pray

37:11

the prayer that God would speak

37:13

clearly to you. He gives us

37:15

his promise. My sheep, hear my

37:17

voice. I believe that you are

37:19

his sheep, you are his child.

37:21

And so it is your inheritance

37:23

to hear his voice. Well, this

37:25

has been conversations with John and

37:27

Lisa Bevere. Until next time, we'll

37:29

see then. We hope you enjoy

37:31

this episode of Conversations with John

37:33

and Lisa Bavier. If you haven't

37:35

already, make sure you subscribe and

37:37

rate this podcast wherever you love

37:39

to listen. Also, if you haven't

37:41

already, go ahead and download Messenger

37:43

X to hear more content from

37:45

John and Lisa Bavier and other

37:47

great messengers. Again, thank you so

37:49

much for joining us and we'll

37:51

see you next time on Conversations

37:53

with John and Lisa.