0:00

up everybody? Welcome back to couple things interviews with

0:02

Sean and Andrew today We have a fun

0:04

one one. They Andrew just like jumped

0:06

right in on Dr. Morgan cut lip. Honestly,

0:08

I'm confused I thought we were all

0:10

on the same page you and I was

0:12

impressed and I was also like wow

0:15

I really enjoy this interview. Dr. Morgan has

0:17

a great personality She's a bunch of

0:19

fun and also has some really good

0:21

things to say I do want to

0:23

preface this by saying I had some

0:25

revelations through this all

0:27

but It was things I'd thought about

0:29

before, don't get me wrong, just heard in a

0:31

new way. And I think that's what she

0:33

does well in her book, A Better Share. Let

0:36

me just say, ladies, if

0:38

you have an evening or a time

0:40

where it's just you and your husband, and

0:42

you can put this episode on in the background, do

0:45

it. Because I literally

0:47

was like, I owe

0:50

you, doctor. Because the

0:52

amount of stuff she like, revealed

0:54

to you. was amazing. So

0:56

it ultimately comes down to this.

0:58

What was revealed was the importance

1:00

of the mutual feeling that there

1:02

is a fair share of workload

1:04

distributed between the couple and a

1:06

feeling actually being founded on a

1:09

fair share of workload. She

1:11

goes to explain in depth mental load

1:13

when it comes to women versus

1:15

men. This is all stemmed from her new

1:17

book, which is a better share. How

1:19

couples can tackle the mental load for more

1:21

fun, less resentment and great sex. That's

1:23

right. It was a phenomenal interview, and one

1:25

I really think you guys are going

1:27

to enjoy. Ultimately, at end

1:29

of this, I feel like a

1:31

emotional white belt, emotional

1:33

rookie, and all you females are

1:36

like emotional black belt. I think you

1:38

went up a level, though. I think I learned

1:40

a little bit. We will link down below

1:42

all the information to a better share by

1:44

Dr. Morgan Cutlip. Highly, highly recommend reading it.

1:46

Well, I love listening to you guys. Oh,

1:48

thank listened to quite a few episodes. Oh,

1:50

thank you. You guys are great. curious

1:53

what you think as a professional. I

1:55

think you're doing so much right. Okay, good. Yeah.

1:57

And just like your mindsets about your

2:00

relationship. Welcome to the show, Dr.

2:02

Morgan Cutlet. How are having me. I'm

2:04

good. Thanks for having me. I appreciate

2:06

it. We're going to talk about sex today. Oh.

2:09

Wow. You did not. There

2:11

was like no warm up for that.

2:14

He didn't warm up. Yeah. Is that symbolic?

2:17

Pretty much. I'm

2:20

going to go from All right. If

2:23

only you knew how out of character

2:25

that was. Oh my gosh.

2:27

I love to hear your background. We'll

2:29

get to the sex, but I

2:32

want to hear about your background and

2:34

why your perspective on this topic.

2:36

is unique. How did you come to

2:38

write a book about this topic? Well,

2:41

this book comes out of

2:43

my own experience. It's like

2:45

the book that I needed when my husband

2:47

and I had a family. I

2:49

have two books. One book is for moms,

2:51

and that's the book that I needed as

2:54

I transitioned into motherhood. And just, goodness,

2:56

with all my education, all

2:58

my knowledge, all of my

3:01

background, I was completely blindsided.

3:03

by how much motherhood really

3:05

affected me, felt totally buried

3:07

by it. And then the

3:09

second piece that I really

3:11

couldn't believe was how quickly

3:13

I developed irritation and resentment

3:15

toward my husband after kids.

3:17

And it was almost like

3:20

this experience of, gosh,

3:22

did my life change? And it's kind

3:24

of stayed the same. And so I

3:26

think a lot of that had to

3:28

do with the differences and responsibilities, who

3:30

was doing what. at the time he

3:32

had, we were living in Florida for

3:34

like, not even a year. And

3:36

he got a job change and moved

3:38

to California. So the first, our daughter's name

3:40

is Effie. When she was born,

3:42

those first eight months, he was in

3:44

California and I was in Florida. So it

3:46

like changed our experience for sure. But

3:49

we had a great relationship we do

3:51

now. And I was like, man, you

3:53

bug me a lot. I'm

3:55

so overwhelmed. I feel on edge. And

3:57

I think a lot of it had

3:59

to do with just this disproportionate way

4:01

we handled home and family life. And

4:04

then it just started coming up

4:06

more and more in conversation. I started

4:08

seeing it on social media and

4:10

I was like, we have to have

4:12

a new way to navigate this

4:15

time because modern family life is so

4:17

relentless. Andrew talks a lot about

4:19

how different it is. And I even

4:21

agree. being married to someone who's

4:23

not a mom and being married to

4:25

someone who's a mom like me

4:27

before having kids was a completely different

4:29

person than me after having kids

4:31

and the mental load that happens after

4:33

you have kids as a mom

4:36

do you think that Changes

4:38

a person and so you have to like

4:40

go through a transition process of like

4:42

getting used to the new you Yeah, I

4:44

think you have to get used to

4:46

the new you and then your partner has

4:48

to make adjustments for the new you

4:50

It's sort of can like go to an

4:52

extreme where I think the new you

4:54

can become like super uptight Super anxious the

4:56

less your partner jumps in the more

4:58

you have to sort of like over exaggerate

5:00

some of these just like felt

5:02

responsibilities to kind of make up that

5:04

gap. I think the change is so rapid

5:06

because it almost literally happens overnight when

5:09

you have a kid. And they're like, I

5:11

was good before. And then

5:13

the next day I wake up and

5:15

I'm responsible forever for keeping this person

5:17

alive, all the responsibilities that come with

5:19

them, all the anxieties and the worries.

5:22

And so it changes rapidly. Couples aren't

5:24

usually prepared for that. What I

5:26

see that happens a lot too is

5:28

like, usually the guy, notices

5:30

the shift in their partner and they

5:32

don't know what to do with it and

5:34

maybe it's kind of scary and so

5:36

they sort of create a little distance and

5:39

then that distance becomes more frustrating to

5:41

their partner and then we start this sort

5:43

of pattern that ends up creating some

5:45

pretty big issues for a lot of couples.

5:48

I think that was something we have

5:50

talked a lot about after having three

5:52

babies, which is there are so many

5:54

resources and so many people who prepare

5:56

you for having a kid literally like

5:58

prepare you for leading up to the

6:00

day you have a child. And then

6:02

as soon as you have that kid, they're

6:05

like, oh yeah, you did it. You

6:07

crossed the finish line. Now it's all

6:09

like, just go off and raise them

6:11

now. And I remember

6:13

some of our biggest frustrations came

6:15

with the dynamic of us

6:17

after kids. And it

6:19

got a little longer with each kid.

6:21

It took a little bit more

6:23

time to get back to us. remember

6:27

feeling like nobody ever talked

6:29

about what happens to mom and

6:31

dad. Nobody prepares your

6:33

relationship for that. But if you look

6:36

at the research, I mean, it's

6:38

been probably a while since they've looked

6:40

at this, because every time they

6:42

looked at it, they found the same

6:44

thing, which is that after kids,

6:46

your relationship satisfaction drops. Other things change,

6:48

like your, like joy you find

6:50

in life and meaning in life, like

6:52

that stuff shifts in the positive

6:54

direction, but. It's a normal experience that

6:56

couples are not prepared for. And

6:59

then men and women experience it differently.

7:01

So men usually have this drop in

7:03

satisfaction because they feel an increased pressure

7:05

to provide and because the sex life

7:07

changes. That's kind of where that lives.

7:09

And then for women, it's the loss

7:11

of freedom, which is one that hit

7:13

me. real hard. I don't

7:15

know about you, but I was like,

7:17

I cannot go to the bathroom

7:19

without bringing contraptions in with me. And

7:21

then the other is the increase

7:24

in responsibilities. So we experience

7:26

it differently, but it's like just knowing

7:28

that would be helpful going into having

7:30

kids and like, let's talk about how

7:32

we're going to navigate this stuff. But

7:34

that drop in satisfaction is temporary, right?

7:36

It ultimately supersedes those without. Children do

7:38

I have that right? Yes, it does.

7:40

So it's like those first like I

7:42

think it's three to four years There's

7:44

this drop and then it comes back. I

7:47

just think what we have to be

7:49

careful of is that sometimes that drop in

7:51

satisfaction sort of shifts the bar of

7:53

what we think of as our new normal

7:55

So there are some couples who become

7:57

disconnected during that time, which is normal But

7:59

then they never actually repair and then

8:01

during that time of disconnection they create a

8:03

lot of hurts that end up sort

8:05

of blasting the rest of the relationship and

8:07

it sends them off on this trajectory

8:09

that ends up doing a lot of damage.

8:11

And these are the couples where many,

8:14

many years down the line, you know, the

8:16

kids are grown and they're like, I

8:18

don't know, we just grew apart. You know,

8:20

it's like, well, there may be some

8:22

small things early on that started that pattern.

8:24

So do you approach the data point

8:26

with your mindset on, okay, I just have

8:28

to get through three or four years,

8:30

or do you actually have to actively work

8:32

those three or four years? You're

8:34

not just like waiting for the calendar

8:36

to change. Right. I think you have to

8:38

be proactive. Yeah. think you have to

8:40

have a plan. I think couples need a

8:42

plan for after kids, because it's like

8:44

before kids, everything unexpected is

8:46

like fun. You're like, oh,

8:48

we're going to build a house. That'll

8:50

be exciting. Or, oh, we have this

8:52

work move. That's an adventure. You know,

8:54

everything is exciting and fun and just

8:56

something you do together and create new

8:58

experiences. But after kids, all that stuff

9:00

becomes stressors. because there's way more involved.

9:02

And I think we have to have

9:05

a plan for couples after kids enter

9:07

the picture. I feel like one theme

9:09

of the book is this ability to

9:11

be playful almost. And

9:13

why is that important? It's actually a

9:15

core value of ours, but why is

9:17

that an underlying or important tenant to

9:19

work through this? I know it sounds

9:21

cliche, but a lot of couples don't

9:23

do this, which is to keep fun

9:25

in your relationship. And

9:28

the reason why it's so important

9:30

is because we start to just

9:32

get in sort of like the logistical

9:34

monotony of life after kids, where

9:36

we're just like uploading and downloading

9:38

information to each other. But we're not

9:40

actually remembering why we fell in

9:42

love, why we chose this person

9:44

and enjoying each other. And so

9:46

it keeps the relationship fresh, keeps

9:49

you remembering that you love the

9:51

person that you chose. And I

9:53

think two adds new experiences. So

9:55

you have stuff to talk about. Like I

9:57

was on Netflix last night and they're just comedian.

10:00

I won't say their name because it's

10:02

embarrassing, but my husband, I love comedians.

10:04

And he's like a new special and

10:06

I texted my husband like, new special,

10:08

do not watch it without me. And

10:11

he's like, as if I ever would,

10:13

you know, but it's like now we'll

10:15

have inside jokes that we'll share that

10:17

we'll talk about. And I think a

10:19

lot of times people when they've been

10:21

married for a while, they sort of

10:23

feel like I already know that everything

10:26

there is to know about you. But

10:28

knowing has this like never ending horizon

10:30

point because each day we have new

10:32

experiences. And so this just gives you

10:34

more shared experiences to talk about. That's

10:36

really well said. And I think now

10:38

that I am reflecting on this, being

10:40

playful almost shows that you have almost

10:43

like an added way to navigate reality.

10:45

It's like there's always this stuff that

10:47

happens to you or happens in day

10:49

to day. But are you able to

10:51

be a little bit detached from that

10:53

and move around through all that stuff

10:55

more loosely and like with more fun

10:58

perspective. Yeah, like some humor. There's tons

11:00

of studies on humor and relationships and

11:02

it's so beneficial. Like we got a

11:04

joke about stuff and like life with

11:06

kids is bananas, but we have to

11:08

be able to laugh at this stuff.

11:10

Like one of my favorite moments with

11:12

my husband is like when the kids

11:15

will be, I don't know, like kind

11:17

of annoying and we'll be across from

11:19

each other and we'll make eye contact

11:21

and we'll just be like, you know,

11:23

it's like We're on the same team.

11:25

We're connected. We're aligned. And like that

11:27

just feels good, especially in this hectic

11:30

time in life. So for anybody listening,

11:32

if they were to find themselves in

11:34

that they three to four year period

11:36

where they haven't actively been working on

11:38

their relationship, they find themselves distancing from

11:40

each other, growing resentment, feeling

11:42

like, you know, they're just

11:44

not together anymore. How

11:47

can they turn that around? And

11:49

like what would be step one? A

11:52

million other question.

11:55

Step one. So I have like my mind

11:57

works in like a million ways. So

12:00

it's hard for me to choose a step

12:02

one. So I'll give you one, but

12:04

I can give you a couple. But one

12:06

would be to start expressing more gratitude. And

12:09

this is really hard because people don't like to

12:11

give until they get. in relationships and they get sort

12:13

of in these standoffs where it's like, well, you're

12:15

not doing this. So I'm not going to give. So

12:17

relationships require a lot of

12:20

humility. Yeah. But when you step

12:22

into gratitude and appreciation, it

12:24

will immediately shift the tone in

12:26

your relationship. So that's like

12:28

a nice way to kind of

12:30

like disrupt that pattern and start

12:32

to shift toward a better place.

12:34

It kind of like opens the

12:36

door for more positive interaction. So

12:38

that's one place I would start.

12:41

Another is like a bigger picture type

12:43

of thing, which is that I

12:45

think couples need to start incorporating regular

12:47

meetings. I think you guys have

12:49

talked about this, like the business meeting

12:52

and relationships, but it is like

12:54

one of the best tools you can

12:56

incorporate into your family life. And

12:58

if a couple is in a bad spot,

13:00

this first meeting can be kind of scary

13:02

because you're like, are you just gonna gripe

13:04

about everything? I think the

13:06

first meeting, let's say in your bad spot,

13:09

the first meeting would really be about

13:11

sort of just like assessing where we're at

13:13

and dreaming up where we wanna be. So

13:15

don't get into the nitty gritty, don't

13:17

get into all the things you're upset

13:19

about or that are bugging you, but

13:22

let's talk about we're here right now,

13:24

this is not where we wanna be, not

13:26

happy. Where do we wanna be in

13:28

this time next year? And

13:30

then let's come up with two to three things

13:32

we can start to do differently together as a

13:34

couple to try to work toward getting there. So

13:36

keep it kind of big picture. is

13:38

another place that I would start that make a big

13:40

difference. And then schedule your next meeting. Continue

13:42

to touch base. What are some

13:44

of the mistakes that you see when

13:47

they're on different sides trying to come

13:49

back together? What are some of

13:51

the mistakes? One is that

13:53

they try to win. I

13:55

remember at our wedding, my husband

13:58

I are really competitive and three

14:00

guys cannot relate that. Not at

14:02

all. And that

14:04

was like our whole wedding. ceremony

14:06

was like about how we'll have

14:08

to put our competition aside. And it's

14:10

true. We really had to work

14:12

hard at that. And I think a

14:14

lot of times when couples are

14:17

making mistakes, it's like they're viewing each

14:19

other as the enemy. They're

14:21

villainizing their partner. They're stuck in

14:23

a bad attitude and they just want

14:25

to have that sort of like

14:27

all their gripes validated. And

14:30

instead we have to start to externalize

14:32

some of these issues and realize that

14:34

you and your partner are supposed to

14:36

be aligned on the same team and

14:38

navigating some of these difficulties together. So

14:40

instead of trying to win, I think

14:42

we really need to work on addressing

14:44

the actual issue and externalize that so

14:47

we can think about what are some

14:49

ways together we can navigate some frustrations

14:51

and hardships. I love

14:53

the conversation that you painted

14:55

and laid out for that

14:57

first meeting. It does It's

14:59

such a fine line though,

15:01

because marriage is contractual at

15:03

a certain degree, right? And

15:05

like to have... a total

15:08

degree. It is a contract.

15:11

But I've realized that when you really

15:13

are dead set on like, these

15:15

is XYZ is what you need to

15:17

do. And these are the chores

15:19

and the tasks and this and you

15:21

didn't do this and you didn't

15:23

do that. And you're, I'm supposed to

15:25

do X, Y, Z. And I

15:27

think that's really good and necessary to

15:30

have those relationship roles. But

15:32

I think a side effect

15:34

of that can be losing the

15:36

flexibility or the understanding or

15:38

like the team aspect of it.

15:41

And it becomes more of

15:43

a legalistic type. You're not

15:45

holding up your side of the bargain

15:47

when there is maybe a little more grace

15:49

or charity involved in like, especially in

15:51

a marriage. Unlike any other relationship,

15:53

it's like, hey, I'm here for

15:55

you, you know, how do you balance

15:57

those two things where it's like,

15:59

you need to explicitly state this, but

16:02

also know that I'm here for

16:04

if you need anything. So

16:06

balancing the rigidity. Yes. The

16:08

flexibility. Yes. This is actually

16:10

why I think meetings are really

16:12

helpful because they, they're a structure, but

16:14

within the structure, you can flexible. And

16:17

if you have relationship rules set, which. I

16:19

mean, probably more couples would benefit from doing that.

16:21

I don't think a lot of couples set

16:23

up their relationship rules. But if you have some

16:25

set, when you come to this

16:27

meeting, you can sort of renegotiate. Like, are

16:29

these working for us anymore? Like, is

16:32

it is it working that you're supposed to

16:34

get up in the morning with the kids

16:36

and I don't? Or should we swap that?

16:38

Like, so that meeting provides an opportunity to

16:40

reevaluate and revisit some of the some of

16:42

the ways that you're operating as a family

16:44

and as a couple. And I

16:46

think that it's nice to have a forum

16:48

for that because what What I find when

16:50

I talk, especially with women, is

16:52

that a lot of times when they

16:54

initiate a conversation about their relationship, and

16:56

usually it's women who are initiating their

16:58

relationship conversations, I know there's, usually, they

17:00

end up working up a whole lot

17:03

of courage and energy to do it

17:05

because a lot of times their partners

17:07

don't tolerate it well. So it helps

17:09

to avoid some of this like bottling

17:11

everything up and then blowing up or

17:13

developing these deep resentments because you have

17:15

a regular place touch base, share the

17:18

responsibility of the relationship. The other piece

17:20

is a lot of women will feel

17:22

like, why am I the only one

17:24

who cares about our relationship? Why am

17:26

I the one who's like talking about

17:28

date nights, doing these things? So I

17:31

think that meeting sort of like helps

17:33

to eliminate some of the rigidity or

17:35

reassess it. You can make adjustments. That's

17:38

really good. We get asked all

17:40

the time, like, hey, do you ever

17:42

think like you guys are too

17:44

structured, too rigid? too scheduled

17:46

out and it takes away like

17:48

the whimsy of life, you know,

17:50

like this whimsical spontaneity or like

17:52

the romance that we all like

17:55

to think just like happens. It's

17:57

like, well, I, I know myself well

17:59

enough that I'm totally irresponsible with my

18:01

time. If I have, if I have

18:03

no boundaries on it, you know I'm

18:05

saying? So the meeting from my standpoint,

18:07

us having these structured thing, these structured

18:09

times are called monthly checkups for like

18:12

when we need to, when we come

18:14

together and say, Hey, This

18:16

is a pattern I've seen that I would

18:18

like to change or the weekly schedule

18:20

meetings, which are my least favorite. They're my

18:22

least favorite. But you've gotten really, you've

18:24

gotten so much better at them. I think

18:26

we have a long way to go.

18:28

But Sean, Sean was good in taking the

18:30

courage and having the courage to want

18:32

to establish those. And I think I'm more

18:34

good at like, Hey, well, it's on

18:36

the schedule. Like I'm like, let's do it.

18:38

But not when you. When you have

18:40

it planned and everyone's expecting it to happen,

18:42

it's way more easy to just say,

18:44

hey, we have a meeting and this is

18:46

what we do. And it's not like

18:49

a emotionally charged thing. Like, well, what do

18:51

you want a meeting about? Like, what

18:53

do I do wrong? Or it's just like,

18:55

no, that's what we do. And maybe

18:57

there's something that needs to be talked about,

18:59

maybe not, but it's there, you know?

19:01

Yeah, I feel like that's one of the

19:03

main benefits is that like when you

19:05

have this on the books, then

19:07

and you do it repeatedly, it's sort

19:09

of like. takes the heat out

19:11

of having these conversations where they're not

19:13

charged anymore because you get so used to

19:15

it. And then I think that usually

19:18

there's one partner who's more on edge about

19:20

how things are going in the family

19:22

and in the relationship. And so it takes

19:24

out some of their anxiety knowing that

19:26

these things are scheduled. And it's

19:28

like with kids, you know, with kids, we've

19:30

learned that when they have boundaries, they feel

19:32

more secure and they feel safer. And probably

19:34

having meetings like this with a little bit

19:36

of structure, provides enough safety and

19:39

security to then lean into more

19:41

whimsy and vulnerability and spontaneity in other

19:43

ways. Like that box is checked,

19:45

it's handled. I was actually going to

19:47

say exactly that. Like when we

19:49

started implementing more boundaries within our relationship,

19:51

it's like we know date night

19:53

is every Thursday and some people will

19:55

say, well, you don't have as

19:57

much freedom to be, you know, impulsive

19:59

or adventurous or whatever. But

20:01

it's like, since we know that,

20:04

we find ways with each date

20:06

night. to have adventure and to

20:08

have spontaneity and to have whimsy

20:10

and to have like these moments

20:12

that's almost allowed us to have

20:14

more. Yeah. Yeah. I

20:16

just think that's nitpicking. Yeah. Like these two

20:18

part because it's like a lot of people

20:20

don't even get a weekly date night. And

20:22

so okay. So you have one that's scheduled.

20:25

Yeah. It's kind of like people say this

20:27

about sex too about scheduling sex. But like

20:29

that just takes the fun out of it.

20:31

And I'm like, not really, because then you

20:33

have all day to sort of like be

20:35

thinking about it and getting in the mood

20:37

for it and thinking, you know, all of

20:39

that stuff. And so I think that there

20:41

are benefits to having some structure. You

20:43

talk about the five questions, the

20:45

five important questions that go along with

20:47

intimacy and the conversations that you

20:49

should have to kick up your intimacy.

20:52

Yeah. Can you tell us what

20:54

those are? Oh, gosh. I think, well,

20:56

they all require like a little

20:58

explanation. So let's just do like

21:00

maybe one or two. Great. Great.

21:03

Check out the book if you want to read them all. So

21:06

one of them

21:08

is exploring your

21:10

desire. And a lot

21:12

of couples don't really understand how desire works. A

21:14

lot of people don't. And that's just kind

21:16

of normal, not understand it. So I can

21:19

explain like desire 101. So

21:21

desire is a two -part system. And the easiest

21:23

way to explain it is that we have an

21:25

accelerator and we have a brake. So

21:27

accelerators like what turns you on,

21:29

brake is what turns you off.

21:31

And then they operate separately and

21:33

you can have different levels of

21:35

sensitivity for each. So somebody might

21:37

have a really sensitive accelerator and

21:40

it's like a cool breeze turns

21:42

them on and they have like

21:44

a very like unsensitive brake. So

21:46

nothing really turns them off. somebody

21:49

might have a really sensitive accelerator, but

21:51

also a sensitive brake. So you sort of

21:53

have to kind of understand where you

21:55

fall. And for the most

21:57

part for women, the brake will

21:59

override the accelerator. So

22:01

if you start to kind of think about this

22:03

and how it applies to you, you can start

22:05

to think about things that turn you on. And

22:08

by the way, I'm not just talking about stuff

22:10

in the bedroom. For the

22:12

most part, some of my biggest turn

22:14

-ons happen outside the bedroom, and I

22:16

think that's where sex starts. There's outside

22:18

the bedroom. So you think about what

22:20

turns me on, but then what turns

22:22

me off. So that's why it's part

22:24

of my book on the mental load,

22:26

is for a lot of people, a

22:28

full brain crowds out any opportunity to

22:30

get in the mood for sex, because

22:32

it's occupied with other things. or

22:34

if your partner, you come to your partner and you're

22:36

like, I gotta talk to you, I'm overwhelmed and they're

22:38

like, you know, it's gonna be

22:40

okay. And they kind of like dismiss it

22:42

and you're like, that's not what I need.

22:44

That can shut down desires. So there's, we

22:47

have to sort of expand our definition of

22:49

it, but then also couples need to talk

22:51

about this stuff because I think we get

22:53

this narrow view on sex where it's basically

22:55

like, what does it for you in the

22:57

bedroom? And it's like, no, we need to

22:59

talk about the dynamics outside of the bedroom

23:01

that are killing desire. Like a

23:04

lot of women after kids are

23:06

like, I just can't find it

23:08

anymore. And there's a physical and

23:10

a physiological component to that. But

23:12

also we're super overwhelmed. We're

23:14

super busy and for a woman to

23:16

be turned on her brain off. And

23:19

so we really need to talk

23:21

about these things as a couple so

23:23

we can maximize all the things

23:25

that hit the accelerator and minimize everything.

23:27

It's a break. Jumping back to

23:29

explain a little bit of what you're

23:31

saying. Can you explain mental load?

23:33

Yes. Because we've even talked about this,

23:35

how it's taking over social media

23:37

at the moment. People trying to explain

23:39

the woman's mental load or the

23:41

mother's mental load and the differences between

23:43

a mother's mental load versus a

23:45

father's or a man's. This is a

23:47

long answer. I know. I'm sorry.

23:49

I don't want to be like, does

23:51

she stop talking? No. This is

23:53

why we brought you on. We want

23:55

to know all of this. OK.

23:57

So the 30 ,000 foot definition is

23:59

that the mental load is the seemingly

24:02

Never ending running to do list that we

24:04

carry around in our heads as two

24:06

key components. Most of the stuff involved in

24:08

it is invisible, which makes it hard

24:10

to explain to somebody else, which makes it

24:13

hard to outsource and also it's hard

24:15

to get appreciation around. The second

24:17

piece is it takes some cognitive real estate.

24:19

So that's kind of what I was talking

24:21

about. Like it crowds out energy and space

24:23

and room for other things like peace, presence,

24:25

patience, regulating your emotions, getting in the mood

24:27

for sex. Everybody has a mental load. I

24:29

remember my husband and I in the beginning

24:31

when we talked about this, he's like, well,

24:33

see my mental load. And we're like, now

24:35

we're completing. And like, this isn't going anywhere.

24:37

So everyone has one. But research shows time

24:39

and time again in home and family life,

24:42

even if a woman works or doesn't work,

24:44

she tends to carry the majority of it

24:46

in the home and family. So

24:48

I think the easiest way

24:50

to explain the in the weeds

24:52

differences is I actually have

24:54

a visual in the book, so

24:56

I'll describe it. But think

24:58

of a Venn diagram with three

25:00

circles. So the tasks involved

25:02

in the mental load have three different

25:04

domains. The first is a physical. Aerotypically,

25:07

this is where guys crush it. They're like, make me

25:09

a list, babe. I'm on it. I'll do the dishes.

25:11

Do you feel better? And we're like, better?

25:14

I'm still overwhelmed. It's

25:16

just like doing the tasks. Then

25:19

there is the mental, which is making the

25:21

list. There are like grocery lists or workstuffs, a

25:23

lot of mental. And then

25:25

the third is the emotional and

25:27

this seems like the differentiator to

25:29

me. I've like looked at the

25:31

research and talked to men and

25:33

women. And that is like the

25:36

ongoing calculations that we're regularly making

25:38

to try to maximize positive experiences

25:40

of members in our family. So

25:42

it's like the short -term stuff where we're projecting

25:44

though into the future where we'll be like,

25:46

okay, it's dinner time. Like how do I make

25:49

something everybody will eat so that I don't

25:51

have like my son's name is Roy? Roy doesn't

25:53

go to bed, and as soon as he

25:55

gets in bed, he wants a bar or some

25:57

sort of snack. And make sure

25:59

he gets enough nutrition, because he's itty -bitty, and how

26:01

do I make sure I fill that kid up?

26:04

That's a short -term one. And

26:06

then the long -term is educational decisions for our

26:08

kids, where we're like, oh, where

26:10

should we live, get the best school, but also

26:12

they have good people around them, and set them

26:14

up for the... for future projecting

26:16

and the stakes feel really high, even in

26:19

the short -term ones. And it takes up

26:21

a lot of space, a lot of

26:23

energy, a lot of research, a lot of

26:25

times. And so that's the

26:27

one that's really hard for a

26:29

couple of reasons. One, it's really hard

26:31

to explain to somebody who doesn't

26:33

think the same way. Second is

26:35

that it follows you everywhere. So

26:37

you could be like at work and

26:39

be just whiplash back out of

26:41

the present into this sort of emotional

26:43

calculating state. And it

26:45

requires a really deep knowing of members

26:48

of your family, so it's hard, can't

26:50

hire somebody really to do it unless

26:52

they've been around your family a really

26:54

long time. So the

26:56

last piece, at the intersection

26:58

of these three circles is what I

27:00

just call the triple threat. And

27:03

that's that, and most of

27:05

the tasks of home and family

27:07

life sort of occur there, which

27:09

means that dinner is not just

27:11

cooking dinner. It's thinking through what's

27:13

in your pantry and in your fridge and what

27:15

you need from the store. And then like

27:17

always missing that one stinking ingredient, figuring that out.

27:19

And then it's also that emotional piece. How

27:21

do I make something everyone will eat? It's

27:24

one little task

27:26

that seems really simple,

27:29

unpacks to contain a ton of

27:31

work, energy, thought, and heart

27:33

from all these three domains. And

27:36

I think that's the piece that's helpful

27:38

for our partners to understand. because

27:40

a lot of times women will be like, I'm

27:42

so overwhelmed. And partners will be like,

27:44

tell me about it, what's going on? Like,

27:47

well, I gotta make dinner, permission slips, like

27:49

enroll them in Little League, and they're like,

27:52

no, that's life, life is busy, like make

27:54

a list, knock it out, you got this,

27:56

it's not a big deal. And for

27:58

us, a couple of things happen, it

28:00

can feel like, shoot, I can't figure

28:02

out how to explain this, or it

28:04

can feel like my partner doesn't get

28:06

it, they just never will understand. Or

28:09

we can start to judge ourselves.

28:11

Am I so overwhelmed? This is normal

28:14

life stuff. But when we understand

28:16

that each task unpacks to reveal all

28:18

of this effort, it makes sense

28:20

why we're often pretty overwhelmed and sort

28:22

of always needing to be productive. But

28:25

the very things that are triple threats. like,

28:27

yes. That was actually super helpful

28:29

for me. Thank you. Was that good for

28:31

you? Okay, good. Thank you so much. The

28:38

amount of times I get overwhelmed at dinner and

28:40

trying to explain that I'm like, I'm thinking about them

28:42

10 years from now and do they have a

28:44

bad relationship with food because when I make them for

28:46

dinner? Yeah, or you're like even the

28:48

thing of like, do I make them finish their

28:50

food or make a few more bites or do

28:52

I'm like, no, you set your own boundaries. Like

28:54

the whole thing is overwhelming to navigate. Then I

28:56

got a bad thinking about my kids talking to

28:58

their therapist someday about how my mom made me

29:01

finish my meal every single night. You

29:03

know when you said everyone has a

29:05

mental load. I kind of felt like

29:07

a buffoon though because I was like

29:09

Comparatively Sean's mental load is just I

29:11

know it. She knows it. It's way

29:13

larger than mine, you know, and I'm

29:15

like, I don't even know if I

29:17

have a mental load. I think I'm

29:19

just vibing The amount of times it

29:21

is vibing The amount of times will

29:23

be sitting in silence and I'm like,

29:25

what are you thinking about? It's like

29:27

there's literally nothing. I'm like, I don't

29:29

understand. What do you Like what words

29:31

are going through your head? My

29:33

dialogue literally never stops. Never ends. But

29:35

she'll say like one sentence too and then

29:37

she'll like say another sentence that's like

29:39

my response to her response to my response.

29:41

And it's like, I don't even know

29:44

what just happened in your mind. I'm just

29:46

like. I'm just smiling and waving, you

29:48

know? I'm like, is your brain literally just

29:50

like a blank white wall? is it

29:52

not even a wall? I think I should

29:54

go get checked out or something. No,

29:56

it's really not super common, by the way,

29:58

at least my husband's there too, because

30:00

I'm like, what you thinking about? He's like,

30:02

nothing. How do you do

30:04

that? I think I would literally have to,

30:06

in my brain, think nothing. Nothing.

30:10

Nothing. It would just have

30:12

to be on repeat. Yes. Yes,

30:14

it's impossible impossible the very things that

30:16

you described is almost the minefield

30:18

of like the triple threat where it's

30:20

like hey dinner when I belittle

30:23

dinner That's a big deal for Sean

30:25

and she feels offended because there's

30:27

a mental the physical and the emotional

30:29

part involved in that for her

30:31

Which I'm sure I have my own

30:33

I I'm not self -aware enough to

30:35

know what those are right now

30:37

But I also think that it's those

30:39

very things that are triple threats

30:41

that could lead to the most hurt

30:43

that also are the most powerful

30:45

and like beneficial, especially like dinner. It's

30:47

like, for me, our family dinners

30:49

growing up were so formational to

30:52

me and like core to our

30:54

family identity. So they should be

30:56

paid attention to both because they're

30:58

soft spots and could cause hurt,

31:00

but also because, and maybe as

31:02

a result, they are, they are

31:04

the very things that like mean

31:06

the most in a lot of

31:08

ways, you know? That's

31:10

why the stakes feel high. Yeah. Stuff

31:12

like this. Very. Yeah. I am

31:14

curious though. So you mentioned the resentment that you

31:16

started experiencing towards your husband. What

31:19

happened next? Then

31:22

I was scared to have another

31:24

child. That's the

31:26

truth. Yeah. It's because it was,

31:28

it felt. And then

31:30

part of it was our circumstances because

31:32

of that move. And so when he

31:34

went to California and I stayed in

31:36

Florida because my family was close by

31:38

and I was like, I'm not gonna,

31:40

what, live in temporary housing while you're

31:42

busy at work dinners? Like I'm gonna

31:44

stay here where I have support. And

31:46

so I remember, so

31:48

we just kind of carried on. Like honestly, it's

31:51

like not the best years of our relationship. I

31:53

grew up with a mom who was

31:55

like the stereotypical 80s, 90s mom, super mom.

31:57

And so I just took all that

31:59

and I just like placed that on myself

32:01

as the expectations I carried for myself.

32:03

I have a lot of stamina. So

32:06

I just like put my head down

32:08

and I just handled stuff. And the

32:10

more I handled stuff, the less involved

32:12

my husband was. And that's his, he

32:15

carries responsibility for that too. But also I just

32:17

kind of was like, I got it. I'll do

32:19

it. Don't worry about it. So we

32:21

went on for a while like that.

32:23

And I remember when we were talking about

32:25

having a second kid, We

32:27

went round and round, because our daughter, Effie, is

32:29

kind of spicy. I

32:32

can't. And then

32:34

we're like, but she can't be an

32:36

only child. So you're stuck in that

32:38

world. And I ended up getting pregnant

32:40

really fast. And then I was early

32:42

with her, and I was really late

32:44

with our son. And I remember I

32:46

had a midwife. I was talking to

32:48

her, and I was like, I don't

32:50

know what's going on. Becoming like what's

32:52

happening. I think you're holding on

32:54

to something because she thought it was some

32:56

complication with my first birth. But I

32:59

think I was holding on to actually like

33:01

the worry and the fear about what

33:03

would happen to our marriage. Because if I

33:05

felt so uncared for and not understood,

33:07

like very misunderstood during that time. And so

33:09

we had to have a sit down

33:11

and we had to talk about it. We

33:13

had to talk about expectations. And

33:16

the second time around we did it

33:18

differently. And I think after that talk, Roy

33:20

ended up coming within like the next

33:22

couple days. So yeah,

33:24

so we had to make adjustments and

33:26

the adjustments were personal adjustments and

33:28

how I showed up this time around

33:30

and then also how we navigate

33:32

it as a couple. So I talk

33:34

about this in my first book,

33:36

but I had to really get good

33:38

at expressing what I needed. Women

33:40

are notoriously horrible at this because we

33:42

make our needs really small. And

33:45

partially we have to, me at first have kids,

33:47

you're like, I can't be a priority. But then

33:49

we sort of get stuck on the back burner

33:51

and then we get to a place where we're

33:53

so disassociated from ourselves. We don't even, what

33:56

we need anymore. And be

33:58

like, hey, you have a minute. We're like,

34:00

I don't even know what's gonna, like a drop

34:02

in the bucket by that point. So I

34:04

had to get good at identifying what I needed

34:06

and then express it with like a healthy

34:08

sense of entitlement. I'm like a jerk, but just

34:10

like, I had to get in there a

34:12

little bit with my husband and he had to

34:14

adjust. I remember at one point he's like,

34:17

You're different. I was like, no, I'm just not

34:19

stuffing it all down. And so like, let's

34:21

figure out how I can deliver this in a

34:23

way you can handle. And then

34:25

we had to make adjustments as a

34:27

couple where he had to get a step

34:29

up more to make more room for

34:31

him. I had to change some of my

34:33

expectations, and we had to get

34:35

better at talking about this stuff on a regular

34:37

basis. One of the questions we have here, why

34:39

is it important for both people in a relationship

34:41

to speak up and be able to say what

34:43

they need? I want to talk about that entitlement

34:46

piece, because I don't know the right balance, but

34:48

I just had a lunch with a business partner

34:50

a couple weeks ago, and he was like, I

34:52

have to tell you what I need in

34:55

this. And it's like, okay, please do, but

34:57

what do we do with that? Your

34:59

needs. Are not the freaking top

35:01

of the food chain neither mine both needs

35:03

really matter, but they're not They're not the

35:06

most important thing. So how do you how

35:08

do you view that? The entitlement piece of

35:10

it, you know, I'm saying in the relationship

35:12

in a marriage I mean everything is kind

35:14

of a negotiation in a marriage, but I

35:16

I was at a place in my own,

35:18

so I'll speak to how I operated in

35:20

ours, where I feel like with my husband

35:22

Chad, he didn't have to speak up a

35:24

lot for what he needed because like naturally

35:26

it kind of just shook out that way.

35:28

And not like, you know, nothing wrong with

35:30

him, but it's like, I remember

35:32

after our daughter was born, he was on a work trip

35:35

and then on the way home, he stopped and got

35:37

a haircut. And I was like, are

35:39

you serious? We had like

35:41

a two month old. And I

35:43

was like, must be, you know, and I

35:45

shouldn't be this upset about it, but I was

35:47

like, must be in that. So you didn't

35:49

like rearrange the stars to get your hair done

35:51

and you didn't check with me so in

35:53

some ways like his needs Just kind of got

35:55

met a little bit more easily and so

35:57

I I don't know I think that there seems

35:59

to be and I know this isn't always

36:01

true But there seems to be a bit more

36:03

space for like the husbands and the dads

36:05

to kind of find that time Often

36:07

this is what I think is

36:09

important to keep in mind as a

36:11

woman and specifically as a mother

36:13

if our needs aren't met sometimes Like

36:15

we don't have to go first

36:17

not gonna happen all the time But

36:19

we got to take turns like

36:21

a lot of mothers don't ever get

36:23

a turn Then we're not able

36:25

to show up for our family in

36:27

the ways that we really do

36:30

when a mom is lifted up and

36:32

cared for and like getting close

36:34

to feeling whole She's gonna be able

36:36

to better give to her kids,

36:38

be patient with her kids, show

36:40

up in her relationship, have more

36:42

energy to give to her relationship. So

36:44

sort of like the heart of

36:46

the family for a lot of families

36:48

is the mom. And so it's

36:50

important that you find your voice and

36:52

that her needs priority. I

36:55

100 % agree. I

36:57

find myself sometimes at my worst

36:59

when I'm like, you know, when

37:01

things are tough or the kids

37:03

are screaming or There's chaos and

37:05

you're just, I just need a

37:08

minute of silence, right? How do

37:10

you differentiate needs from I would

37:12

really like this and it's not

37:14

possible or it's not realistic? Do

37:16

you see the difference? It's like, well, that's not

37:18

really a need. That's just me. I gotta tighten up.

37:21

gotta freaking step up to the plate and I, am

37:23

I thinking about this wrong? I'm being honest.

37:25

I love it. This is, keep

37:28

going. When do you like

37:30

power through and when do you take

37:32

the minute? Yeah, it's like what do

37:34

I actually need actually maybe I need

37:36

to think about that more but like

37:38

whenever I get in a place where

37:41

I'm I'll just say it from my

37:43

perspective like mentally fragile enough to say

37:45

I need this yeah, then I'm like,

37:47

uh -oh I got a freaking boot

37:49

up and and like Not view that

37:51

as a need anymore. You know I'm

37:54

saying I You're gonna start bringing up

37:56

arguments that we have because we talk

37:58

about this a lot. I think they're

38:00

is a difference in getting to that

38:02

point and saying, oh, I need to

38:04

boot up and I need to be

38:06

better. And I think

38:09

you should, in my personal opinion,

38:11

please correct me if I'm completely

38:13

wrong. I think a better approach

38:15

is just admitting a vulnerability and

38:17

saying, I actually need

38:19

more than a minute. I

38:22

need your help. I

38:25

need your support as a spouse.

38:28

to allow me, because of whatever it

38:30

is, mental load of some kind, I

38:33

need your support right now, and I

38:35

actually do need, in order to be

38:37

the best parent, to go sit

38:39

down for five minutes. And I

38:41

don't think that's you being a bad parent. I

38:43

think that's being human. And I don't think

38:45

you need to be stronger. I think that's literally

38:47

why you have a teammate. But you know

38:49

those times where you're like, I need a glass

38:51

of wine right now. You're like, that's not

38:53

right. But I

38:55

think reading into that, As

38:57

a spouse and saying, my spouse is saying, I

38:59

need a glass of wine. I need a second. I

39:01

need a piece of space. No,

39:03

you don't need a glass of

39:05

wine. You don't. I'll call

39:08

us not the answer. Let's say

39:10

that. But like my spouse

39:12

is obviously struggling with something. Yeah.

39:14

So rather than exploiting that to them

39:16

and saying, no, do better, be

39:19

better. It's like, babe. It's

39:21

okay. Like I agree and and how nice

39:23

to have like both people receptive to one

39:25

another's needs Yeah, and I think like I've

39:27

noticed this in my husband is he'll try

39:30

to be needless sometimes and he'll sort of

39:32

do the thing where just man up and

39:34

you just push through push through and then

39:36

all of us are like why is dad

39:38

so grumpy like it comes out in other

39:40

ways You know like so I think you

39:42

know it's hard to answer your question because

39:44

everybody's different And so I think like a

39:46

good metric is thinking about your time and

39:49

your energy And like you and Sean

39:51

can then talk about one of you or both

39:53

of you are at your wit's end, like who's got

39:55

the energy to sort of push a little further? And

39:57

do you have the time to and vice

39:59

versa? But I think we have to know ourselves.

40:01

We have to check in with ourselves. Like

40:04

what is it that's going on for me right

40:06

now? What do I need that will help

40:08

me fill up a little bit so then I

40:10

can show up in a more present way

40:12

for my family. And if you need the minute.

40:14

Ask for support. It feels good to

40:17

give in our relationships. It really does.

40:19

So it's like, if you come to

40:21

her for support, it's probably gonna feel

40:23

kind of good for her to give

40:25

that to you. And then she knows

40:27

you'll be ready to give later on.

40:29

No, I agree. What I am just

40:31

fully, well, coming to realize in this

40:33

conversation right now, live. This is a

40:36

great conversation. It is. I'm

40:38

realizing how emotionally, like, I

40:40

feel like I have a pretty good emotional IQ

40:42

or whatever the EQ. But like when

40:44

you say something, it's like levels

40:46

to it. Like the glass of wine.

40:48

It's like, OK, I got to

40:51

think about what is she actually saying,

40:53

you know? Babe, we've been together

40:55

14 years. I think there's

40:57

like there's depth to it. And I think

40:59

things so literally where it's like, oh,

41:01

she needs. He's like, you don't need to

41:03

sit down. I'm like, you don't need

41:05

to sit down. You're fine standing. Yeah.

41:09

Yeah, I'm doing a lot of

41:11

self -reflection as a result of this

41:13

and kind of like even The

41:15

other day Mr. Grumpy pants is

41:17

walking around and I'm like what's

41:19

wrong and he's like nothing I'm

41:21

like Obviously something well now where

41:24

it is because you put me

41:26

on the spot. I'm like no

41:28

there is something But like it's

41:30

fine to say it. It's not

41:32

making you a weaker human being.

41:34

Yeah, it's literally just helping me

41:36

support you I

41:39

used to have a term for it. I used

41:41

to talk about my husband. I can't think of

41:43

it right now, but it's basically like having like

41:45

insight and retrospect. Where it's

41:47

like, you're grumpy and she's like, what's going on? You're

41:49

like, nothing. And then you're like, I'm fine, I'm

41:51

fine. And then later on, you might be like, oh,

41:53

well, this happened today. And I'm kind of, it's

41:55

like the insight comes, it's the late onset insight. That's,

41:58

so you might just need to like slow

42:00

down and check in with yourself and figure

42:02

out what is it that I need. But

42:04

I think, you know, overall people, men and

42:06

women, can be pretty bad at expressing what

42:08

we need. We tend to focus on women,

42:10

but men are pretty bad at it too.

42:12

So we have to get better at this.

42:15

And I think like if I were to

42:17

give a quick sort of tip for how

42:19

to get in touch with what you need,

42:21

one of the quickest ways to get there

42:23

is to think about what you complain about

42:25

the most. So our complaints, our windows and

42:27

to our unmet needs. And if we're

42:29

like walking, I don't know, I do this, but if you're

42:31

like, I'll walk around the house muttering under my breath

42:33

when I'm like at my limit. So if

42:35

you like analyzed your It

42:37

would reveal probably a need that you

42:39

have that's not getting it. And

42:41

then I think the other pieces is

42:44

that when we express a need,

42:46

it's helpful to accompany it with a

42:48

clear deliverable. Sometimes

42:50

in our relationships, I see this across the

42:52

board with relationship stuff, we'll just complain

42:54

about something which is a need a lot

42:56

of times. And there

42:58

will be vague, like for years,

43:00

I would say to my husband, like,

43:02

I just need more romance. And

43:04

he's like, okay. And I'm like,

43:07

why doesn't anything change? It's like, oh,

43:09

that's big. What does

43:11

that mean, more romance? What does that mean to me?

43:13

He doesn't understand that. He's sent flowers once and

43:15

then nothing happened again. And I'm like, I don't understand.

43:17

And what happens a lot of times then

43:20

is that, for example, in our

43:22

own relationship, I'd be like, that's not

43:24

what I wanted. And he's like, oh, you

43:26

need so much. You're so complicated. I'm

43:28

just not like that. I don't need that.

43:30

And the little things then suddenly become. big

43:33

things pretty quickly in our relationship. So

43:35

if we're clear with the outcome we

43:37

want to see and the deliverable it

43:39

can save us. We talk a lot

43:41

about goals and like vision and I

43:43

think that kind of plays into that

43:45

where it's like actually a really fun

43:47

process to go on that adventure together

43:49

of like hey flowers do do an

43:51

experiment of like try a bunch of

43:53

different things and see what makes you

43:55

feel romance or whatever it's like hey

43:57

flowers actually didn't make me feel like

43:59

I was romanced or Holding hands really

44:01

did or and it's like, I don't

44:03

know. I'm proud. I probably like write

44:05

too much stuff down. I'm probably too

44:07

analytical like that, but it's like, okay,

44:09

Sean like that. She likes to holding

44:11

hands. That's great. That did work. Check.

44:14

That's so nice. I wish there hasn't

44:16

to do more of that. Like

44:18

be be intentional about it. Yeah. But

44:21

it really is an adventure and it's like

44:23

a game of like, we're both finding that

44:25

out and I'm learning about her and she's

44:27

learning about her and she. I'm learning about

44:29

me and she's learning about me. I'm curious,

44:31

the tagline, less resentment and great sex. So

44:34

as promised at the beginning of

44:37

the episode, actually just define what

44:39

great sex is. But how would

44:41

we start there? I've never had to do that. That's

44:43

a good question. I think great

44:45

sex is subjective to the

44:47

couple that's that's defining it. So

44:49

great sex is where both

44:51

people are like relatively happy with

44:54

the frequency of sex. Usually

44:56

there's always one who wants a little

44:58

bit more and one like wants less

45:00

or they're good with where they're at

45:02

So they're both relatively happy with it

45:04

and it's a it's a mutually fulfilling

45:06

sex life both people get enjoyment out

45:08

of it it enhances the relationship by

45:10

bringing closer and There's a sense of

45:12

openness. I'm just winging it right now,

45:14

but I think those are some of

45:16

the key components what would be to

45:18

follow up that question. The biggest mistake

45:20

you see couples make, like within their

45:22

sex life. I think one is they

45:24

don't talk about it, which is like

45:26

really funny that we'll get naked. This

45:29

is too awkward to talk about it.

45:31

You're like, okay, that makes absolutely no sense.

45:33

So I think that's a big piece

45:35

of it. I think the other is that

45:37

we have to remember that I talk

45:39

in the book about two core desires everybody

45:41

has in their relationship to feel loved

45:43

and to feel secure. And you can unpack

45:46

those in different ways. But the way

45:48

that we arrive at those feelings are very

45:50

different. So broad strokes,

45:52

stereotypically, for a lot of men

45:54

to feel safe and loved in

45:56

a relationship, you gotta have a

45:58

healthy sex life. You gotta have

46:00

a fulfilling sex life. That sort

46:03

of like lets them know, oh,

46:05

I'm desired, I'm wanted, I'm safe

46:07

in my relationship. And I think

46:09

for women, broad strokes again, for

46:11

a lot of us, we want

46:13

to feel connected. when we

46:15

feel safe and loved, then we

46:17

feel better entering into our sex life.

46:20

And I think there's just like, we just

46:22

miss each other on this. It feels

46:24

just like the game is rigged a little

46:26

bit. We're like, why can't we just

46:29

be the same on this one? And so

46:31

sometimes I think one partner will minimize

46:33

the importance of what's going on in the

46:35

bedroom and the other partner will minimize

46:37

the importance of what's going on outside the

46:39

bedroom. And we miss each other, but

46:41

we need to, again, it's that stepping toward

46:43

with humility and understanding can make a

46:45

big, big difference. And I think you know,

46:47

something throughout the book I try to

46:49

do is provide a lot of explanations and

46:51

understanding of dynamics that can become very

46:53

personalized. And then when they're personalized,

46:55

we get offended and we just our

46:57

partner doesn't care about us. But there's

46:59

some sort of like sort of like

47:01

universal differences that really impact our relationships.

47:03

I think this is one of them.

47:06

Yeah. How do you feel connected? What's

47:08

interesting about sex with the differences

47:10

you just described is like, what

47:13

up? like magical alchemy

47:15

of like okay because all

47:17

of these outside the bedroom

47:19

type things you described earlier

47:21

and the Connectedness that does come

47:23

with sex, but then the

47:25

sex that is desired by

47:28

one party maybe more than

47:30

the other like the physical part

47:32

of it It's like this

47:34

crate. There's a lot that

47:36

goes yeah, you know You're

47:38

just realizing this don't

47:42

think they do some, I don't think, sorry.

47:44

I don't think, like my husband too, I

47:46

remember once I was like, did you realize?

47:48

He's like, oh. Yeah. Yeah. We're

47:50

very complex. This has been a

47:52

great conversation. You had another

47:54

question. Oh, closing question. Okay. What,

47:57

if you were to come up

47:59

with one, what's a challenge for

48:02

couples listening that they could take

48:04

away from this or try this

48:06

week to hopefully like help their

48:08

connection? not just with sex,

48:10

like just within their relationship. Okay, I have

48:12

two. Can I give two? Please. Okay.

48:14

I do experiments in my relationship without telling

48:16

my husband. I keep waiting. I'm like

48:18

saying it more and more where I'm like,

48:20

I'm going to see if he listens

48:22

to any podcast. That's

48:24

amazing. But I do. I've been doing them

48:26

for years. He never knows. And then I just

48:28

watch and I see if anything changes in

48:30

the relationship and it's wild how much you can

48:32

change as an individual. in the

48:34

dynamic of your relationship. So one of the

48:37

ones I did several years ago is, so

48:40

he'd always accused me of being too sensitive.

48:43

And I'm not like easily offended. It's actually

48:45

really hard to offend me. But I'm just

48:47

like a sensitive person in that, like I

48:49

pick up on stuff. So I was always

48:51

like, Are you okay with me? Are you

48:53

okay with me? was always doing this temperature

48:55

checking. That's me. Yeah. I drive you crazy.

48:57

You're probably a highly sensitive person. Very. Yeah.

48:59

So if you read that book, because you

49:01

should read that book. No. Okay, I'll read

49:03

it. It's literally the highly sensitive person. Great.

49:05

Okay, so read that. And then you'll be

49:07

like, oh my gosh, my life makes sense.

49:10

So anyway, I would always be temperature checking

49:12

and I would annoy him. And it would

49:14

actually start fights sometime. because then you'd

49:16

be like, I'm fine, and now I'm

49:18

not fine because you're bugging me about

49:20

this. That happened 45 minutes ago. Literally,

49:22

right before you walked in. I was

49:24

like, what's wrong? It's a thing. It

49:26

happens a lot. So I did this

49:28

experiment where I just started taking zero

49:30

things personally, nothing personally. And

49:32

I did it for 30 days. And

49:34

so if I felt his mood, I

49:36

was like, and I would not engage.

49:38

I would not temperature check. I would

49:40

not respond. And it made the biggest

49:43

difference in our relationship. And

49:45

he would shift if I picked up on a

49:47

mood and I was usually right because like

49:49

I have he has that delayed onset insight Oh,

49:51

yeah, I would kind of know

49:53

but I just let it go and

49:55

he would shift out of it faster and

49:57

It never created that tension between us. like

50:00

kind of amazing. So that's one thing

50:02

The second thing is where I started

50:04

is just to increase gratitude in your

50:06

relationship and In the book I give

50:08

a formula for a really good compliment.

50:10

And so I think couples should do

50:12

this the day for each other. And

50:15

the formula is observation of

50:17

either a personal quality or

50:19

something that they do, plus

50:21

how it makes your life

50:24

better. If couples did this

50:26

every single day, I think it would completely

50:28

shift their relationship. So I'll give you an

50:30

example. It might be I

50:32

see how hard you work to

50:34

put a good dinner table for our

50:36

family. I cannot tell you how

50:38

much that relieves any worry that I have

50:40

that our kids are going to be. like

50:42

well fed and taken care of and I

50:44

appreciate all of the heart and thought you

50:46

both did. That feels good. We get

50:48

once a day, both people do it to each

50:50

other. Wow. I

50:52

have one more question. You mentioned you

50:55

didn't feel supported. Were you not supported

50:57

by your husband in those early years

50:59

or did you just not feel supported

51:01

or does the difference even matter? Does

51:03

trying to differentiate those two even matter?

51:05

I feel like in some ways he

51:07

wasn't. He was very passive. I find

51:09

this a lot with like partnerships of

51:11

after kids is usually a lot of

51:14

times women will have partners who are

51:16

willing, but they're passively willing to do

51:18

things. So they're like waiting, like, what's

51:20

my orders? I always joke, my

51:22

husband's like Emmett from the Lego movie,

51:24

because he just wants a set of

51:26

instructions. I think in one hand, he

51:28

wasn't stepping up enough. And so that

51:30

had to shift. And he had to

51:32

sort of just like, no, he had

51:35

permission to get it wrong. And I

51:37

was okay with that. And I really

51:39

needed him to go up in some

51:41

different ways. And I think, you know,

51:43

and I do think, yes, he did

51:45

support me, of course, like he wasn't

51:47

absent, but maybe the support was different

51:49

than what I needed at the time.

51:52

I don't remember the last part of your question.

51:54

Oh, that answer. That answer, yeah. That was really

51:56

good. Well, compliment for you. of

51:58

gratitude. I know you've spent a lot

52:00

of time writing this book, and it's

52:03

based off of a light of devotion

52:05

to this subject. So thank you

52:07

for coming, blessing us with your wisdom,

52:09

and this was a really good conversation.

52:11

think you changed our relations. I hope

52:13

so. Thanks for having me. That is

52:16

Really good. you guys do. So

52:18

for those listening that want learn more about

52:20

Dr. Cutlet, we'll link your information down below,

52:22

as well as the link to your new

52:24

book, a share. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.