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and service, service, service, service, service, service, service, and service,

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service, service, service, service, service, service, and service, Welcome

0:38

to Creature Feature Production of

0:40

Eye Heart Radio. I'm your

0:42

host of Many Parasites, Katie

0:45

Golden. I studied Psychology and

0:47

Evolutionary Biology and today on

0:49

the show, it's a listener

0:51

questions episode. You send me

0:53

your questions too. Creature Featurepot@gmail.com

0:55

and I answer them. Questions

0:58

about pets, to Evolutionary Biology,

1:00

to random animal questions, I

1:02

do my best. So let's

1:04

get right into it. First

1:06

question is from Will H

1:09

who sent me a TikTok video

1:11

and asked, is this real or

1:13

AI slot? So thank you for

1:16

this, Will. And anyone else out

1:18

there, if you see something online

1:20

about an animal that looks weird

1:23

or too good to be true

1:25

or too strange to be true,

1:28

or you're trying to tell the

1:30

difference between something that's fake. and

1:32

real, send me an email and

1:35

I will try to help you

1:37

out with that. So I really

1:39

feel you because there's so much

1:42

AI slop out there, it is

1:44

getting harder to tell the real

1:46

animals from the fakes, which isn't

1:49

great. But fortunately, the video that

1:51

Will sent is very real. It

1:54

depicts this bird that certainly looks

1:56

like a Jim Hinson muppet. It

1:58

does not look... So this

2:00

is a species of potu

2:03

bird. These birds have huge

2:05

gaping mouths, they have giant

2:07

eyes, they're mostly nocturnal. They

2:09

look like owls, sort of,

2:12

although they are not owls.

2:14

They have these beautiful camouflage feather

2:16

that looks like tree bark, which

2:19

allows them to perch on stumps

2:21

to blend in. They'll even lift

2:23

their little heads up at an

2:25

angle so that their sharp profile

2:28

looks like a split piece of

2:30

wood jutting out from the stump.

2:32

and they will lay their eggs

2:34

on these stumps, which kind of

2:37

sounds stupid, except that they carefully

2:39

select a stump that has a

2:41

cranny or a nook that they

2:43

can wedge in the egg. And

2:45

when they're incubating the egg and

2:48

using this amazing camouflage that makes

2:50

them look like they're part of

2:52

the, you know, like when you

2:54

see some wood and a tree

2:57

is fallen or snapped in half

2:59

and the the woods uneven and

3:01

there's like parts of the bark

3:03

that kind of are jutting up.

3:06

the potu mimics this look by

3:08

using kind of the angles of

3:10

its body and then its coloration

3:12

to look like a piece of

3:15

bark. It's very convincing. And so

3:17

when it's incubating the egg, the

3:19

egg's completely hidden from sight. I

3:21

think I've also read that the

3:24

egg can kind of look a

3:26

bit like maybe some fungus on

3:28

the on the bark, so that

3:30

might help it like say if

3:32

a parent is not sitting on

3:35

it. So in the video that

3:37

Will sent it looks like this

3:39

is a great potu which is

3:41

found in South America and they

3:44

have this really creepy call which

3:46

I'm going to play for you

3:48

right now. So that's a call

3:50

that was recorded in Colombia. Here's

3:53

another recording that was done in

3:55

Brazil. Oh

4:00

So you know, that would be

4:02

sort of disconcerting to hear at

4:05

night. And then when you look

4:07

at them, they are also pretty

4:09

creepy. Their iris is dark brown,

4:11

but when their pupils are, expect

4:13

black eyes like a doll's eyes.

4:15

They're about a foot long in

4:18

height with a wingspan of over

4:20

two feet. They are predators and

4:22

they chase after mainly large flying

4:24

insects that they'll find in the...

4:26

in the rainforest or even the

4:28

occasional bat or small bird. Whatever

4:31

flies in the air and can

4:33

fit in their mouths, the potu

4:35

will try to eat. It's kind

4:37

of terrifying to think of if

4:39

you were that size, like if

4:41

you're a little fairy, there's this

4:43

thing that perfectly blends in with

4:46

a stump, just looks like a

4:48

piece of wood, and then it

4:50

sits there until you fly by

4:52

and then jumps out at you

4:54

with this giant gaping muppet-like mouth

4:56

and just eats your right up.

4:59

So I would think given that

5:01

this bird is so strange looking

5:03

and has such a kind of

5:05

creepy call that it would have

5:07

a few sort of like myths

5:09

about it, cultural stories about it,

5:12

and I did find some. So

5:14

one is that parts of its

5:16

body are sometimes used as charms

5:18

to ward off seduction, which I

5:20

guess if we listen to that

5:22

call again. Yeah,

5:25

I can kind of see how

5:27

that would be considered a war

5:29

against seduction. It's not a very

5:32

seductive call. But there's also apparently

5:34

a story told by the Shur,

5:36

a group of, it's a group

5:39

of indigenous people of the Ecuadorian

5:41

Amazon. Now, I unfortunately struggle to

5:43

verify whether this is actual folklore.

5:45

I could only find references to

5:48

this on. as sort of the

5:50

park National Forest Lodge website. So

5:52

I apologize if this is not

5:55

a cult. really accurate but this

5:57

is what I read in the

5:59

story a husband tries to get

6:02

space from his wife by climbing

6:04

up a vine and then she

6:06

follows after him and he is

6:09

frustrated with her following him so

6:11

he cuts the vine which causes

6:13

her to fall and she's so

6:15

hurt by his actions that she

6:18

turns herself into a bird the

6:20

potu and starts to cry out

6:22

in the night. My husband, my

6:25

husband, or Aishiru, Aishiru, I'm not

6:27

sure if this is the actual

6:29

story, but it's thought that this

6:32

like the call is this mournful

6:34

cry of this wife who was

6:36

spurned by her husband. So yeah,

6:39

I mean it's a fascinating looking

6:41

bird. It is very real though,

6:43

and it does look like something

6:45

out of some strange. fairy tale,

6:48

a weird puppet or maybe AI,

6:50

but it is absolutely real. Just

6:52

a sort of a tip with

6:55

identifying AI animals, you kind of

6:57

want to look for A lot

6:59

of like weird smoothness, the lighting

7:02

being like really perfect for a

7:04

strange animal you've never seen before,

7:06

sometimes those are giveaways, right? Because

7:08

if there's a newly discovered animal,

7:11

it's unlikely that it's going to

7:13

be in perfect studio lighting. But

7:15

you know, on occasion, there are

7:18

animals that are well documented, have

7:20

really good photos taken of them,

7:22

that are absolutely bizarre. Yeah, it's

7:25

getting harder and harder to tell.

7:27

So go ahead and if you

7:29

have any questions about things that

7:32

you're not sure whether it's true

7:34

or not, I'll try to look

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apply. Next listener question. Hi, Katie.

8:41

I'm not sure if you ever

8:43

want to discuss this issue on

8:45

the show because it's very dark

8:48

and controversial. I was wondering if

8:50

you had any great academic resources

8:52

or studies on the topic, though.

8:55

Too many I've found have an

8:57

agenda. I followed here at an

8:59

open intake municipal kill shelter with

9:01

the dogs. The city requires spay

9:04

neuter but it is a secondary

9:06

charge not animal control walking around

9:08

checking to see. I am in

9:11

the South, she means the southern

9:13

United States. How has the North

9:15

conquered this problem? We have a

9:18

partner shelter that takes at least

9:20

a hundred dogs from us a

9:22

year and they get adopted. Anyway,

9:25

what are the reasons that Spain

9:27

neuter campaigns never took hold down

9:29

here in the South? I read

9:31

we have more strays because we

9:34

have milder winters. I know animal

9:36

cruelty and hoarding exist outside this

9:38

region. Attached are some shelter pups.

9:41

Thank you, Caitlin. Hi, Caitlin. First

9:43

of all, all the dog is

9:45

so cute. So cute, I hope

9:48

they get adopted. I understand how

9:50

challenging it must be to work

9:52

at a shelter, knowing that not

9:55

all your animals will find homes.

9:57

And in order to be humane,

9:59

some of these animals have to

10:01

be put down. And I know

10:04

there is this stigma against kill

10:06

shelters. I mean, the name itself

10:08

sounds very violent. It's important I

10:11

think for... people to recognize that

10:13

shelter workers never want to have

10:15

to put animals down. They're not

10:18

doing this, you know, for any

10:20

other reason except that there's simply

10:22

not infinite resources, infinite amount of

10:24

space. And so if these animals

10:27

aren't adopted out fast enough. you

10:29

know, rather than letting this animal

10:31

starve slowly to death and suffer,

10:34

the decision is made to humanely

10:36

put them down, which is very

10:38

sad, of course. I don't really

10:41

like the term kill shelter and

10:43

no kill shelter. It just, I

10:45

think it would be more accurate

10:48

as Caitlin kind of phrased it

10:50

to say open intake shelters or

10:52

with the no kill shelters, I

10:54

think a more accurate name would

10:57

be limited admission. private shelters because

10:59

what the no-kill shelters often do

11:01

is they'll reject animals coming into

11:04

their shelter that they No will

11:06

probably not be able to be

11:08

adopted or if they don't have

11:11

space, which is of course in

11:13

their right. I'm not saying that

11:15

these limited admission private shelters shouldn't

11:18

exist. I think they can do

11:20

good work. But these animals that

11:22

get rejected from the limited admission

11:24

shelter have to go somewhere and

11:27

often that is like a municipal

11:29

shelter, also known as like a

11:31

kill shelter because they take in

11:34

all the animals that come in

11:36

off the streets. and because they

11:38

don't again have unlimited resources infinite

11:41

amount of space and they can't

11:43

adopt them all out rather than

11:45

keeping these animals in like confined

11:47

conditions where they're all in tiny

11:50

cages where they can't move around

11:52

or they don't have enough food

11:54

they are they're euthanized which is

11:57

which is really sad I think

11:59

but it's not it's not done

12:01

out of cruelty it's done out

12:04

of compassion for these animals. So,

12:06

onto the issue of how do

12:08

different shelters manage to... when we're

12:11

talking about like municipal shelters, like

12:13

why do some have lower rates

12:15

of euthanasia than others? And it's

12:17

usually a resources issue and the

12:20

number of strays. And of course,

12:22

the best way to reduce the

12:24

need for euthanasia and shelters is

12:27

spaying and neutering programs, as our

12:29

listener pointed out. So, you know,

12:31

animals that are both strays and

12:34

those with home being sterilized, preventing

12:36

an overflow of animals, like... So

12:38

spaying and neutering programs as well

12:41

as the habits of owners fixing

12:43

their own pets will vary regionally.

12:45

There was a survey that looked

12:47

into this discrepancy. There's a paper

12:50

by Carol Glasser called Attitudes Towards

12:52

Spay and Neuter in the US

12:54

population, Urban versus Rural, Cat Dog,

12:57

and demographic differences. And there's some.

12:59

Interesting results from this survey, which

13:01

found that there wasn't as much

13:04

of a discrepancy in attitudes between

13:06

rural populations and rural populations, as

13:08

was expected, set there seems to

13:10

be maybe more of a generational

13:13

difference. So for instance, a millennial,

13:15

surprisingly, that's my generation, they're less

13:17

likely than older generations to understand.

13:20

Spain neuter programs like what why

13:22

they're important there or to understand

13:24

what the process is. They're also

13:27

more likely to be concerned about

13:29

the health effects on their pets

13:31

and they're also less likely to

13:34

see it as morally positive. to

13:36

have it done to their pets

13:38

than older generations. So there seems

13:40

to be sort of this shift

13:43

in attitude towards spaying and neutering

13:45

to be less favorable. There's also

13:47

a slight gender difference, so women

13:50

are more likely to find spaying

13:52

and neutering to be more moral

13:54

than men. I can't say why,

13:57

I don't really know why that

13:59

is. But I think it is.

14:01

interesting because the main thing is

14:04

this survey doesn't really seem to

14:06

indicate that there's a difference between

14:08

say an urban setting or a

14:10

huge difference between an urban setting

14:13

in a rural setting in terms

14:15

of attitudes towards spaying and neutering.

14:17

But you know this is one

14:20

survey. So in terms of answering

14:22

Caitlin's question I looked into some

14:24

other research, so the first thing

14:27

is to confirm that Caitlin's observations

14:29

reflect a wider trend of there

14:31

being more stray animals in the

14:34

South versus the North. And in

14:36

fact, that does seem to be

14:38

the case. So there was a

14:40

2018 review called Dog Population and

14:43

Dog Sheltering Trends in the United

14:45

States of America. This is by

14:47

Andrew Rowan and Tamara Cartel. They

14:50

are affiliated with the Humane Society,

14:52

so you could argue that they

14:54

may have some bias. But they

14:57

did observe that, quote, while New

14:59

Hampshire and New Jersey have low

15:01

intake and euthanasia rates and have

15:03

significantly lower numbers of stray dogs,

15:06

other states, especially in the South,

15:08

report much higher numbers. So this

15:10

does seem to back up Caitlin's

15:13

personal observations as someone who works

15:15

in a shelter. So also according

15:17

to this review in places like

15:20

New Jersey where they have lower

15:22

euthanasia numbers, there are statewide low-income

15:24

spay and neuter programs. So the

15:27

decrease in euthanasia seems to be

15:29

driven by lower levels of animal

15:31

intake to shelter. So what that

15:33

means is if there's less animal

15:36

intake to shelters, usually that means

15:38

there's... less of a stray population.

15:40

So that seems to be driving

15:43

the euthanasia numbers down, which would

15:45

mean there's fewer strays in these

15:47

areas, which might indicate that these

15:50

spay and neuter programs that are

15:52

funded by the the government in

15:54

low-income areas for low-income families with

15:57

pets for strays does seem to

15:59

be having an impact on the

16:01

amount of stray dogs in the

16:03

area and adoptions have also risen

16:06

slightly but they just don't account

16:08

for the majority of the decrease

16:10

in the euthanasia rates. So I

16:13

would say given that like you

16:15

know these both these studies seem

16:17

to indicate that it's possibly more

16:20

of a policy issue rather than

16:22

say a cultural difference. I would

16:24

say that the most likely driver

16:26

for the difference between the North

16:29

and the South is whether there

16:31

are these statewide spaying-neutering programs that

16:33

cover the cost for low-income families

16:36

or low-income areas. Probably if we

16:38

want to see fewer animals being...

16:40

youth and eyes we would have

16:43

to increase funding for these spaying

16:45

and neutering programs in these states.

16:47

There might be more, I'm not

16:50

really sure, I'd love to hear

16:52

from people who are more familiar

16:54

with the politics regarding these issues

16:56

in the South, but there might

16:59

be more political resistance to bills

17:01

that fund these programs. There might

17:03

also just be more poverty in

17:06

some of these states, so that

17:08

would compete with funding. So that

17:10

would be my... educated guess, but

17:13

I am definitely not an expert

17:15

on this topic. I think it's

17:17

really important to talk about though.

17:20

Thank you Caitlin for writing in.

17:22

I think it is a sensitive

17:24

question, but I think that even

17:26

though it's sad and it's kind

17:29

of difficult to discuss, I think

17:31

it is really important. Otherwise, power

17:33

we ever going to figure out

17:36

how we can get those, those,

17:38

the shelters. less full of dogs

17:40

that can't be adopted. Like we

17:43

can't just sweep it under the

17:45

rug. And I think it's also

17:47

really important to note that for

17:49

so-called, you know, like kill shelters,

17:52

like it's absolutely not morally wrong

17:54

to adopt from these shelters that

17:56

euthanize. In fact, by adopting from

17:59

those shelters, you are helping to

18:01

reduce the number of animals that

18:03

are in the shelters and then

18:06

that leaves up more space for

18:08

animals and that keeps the euthanasia

18:10

numbers lower as well. So please

18:13

don't just avoid municipal shelters because

18:15

they use euthanasia because those animals

18:17

also need to be adopted. And

18:19

it's, again, like the private shelters

18:22

that are uh... no kill shelters

18:24

that i i'm i don't have

18:26

a problem with those but uh...

18:29

it's the animals that they reject

18:31

like they don't take in will

18:33

ultimately end up going to a

18:36

municipal shelter so it's not really

18:38

that they you know that i

18:40

don't know that other than the

18:43

fact that these private shelters may

18:45

increase capacity for there being more

18:47

shelter space for dogs uh... they're

18:49

not it's not necessarily that you

18:52

know, they are just voluntarily not

18:54

killing dogs. They are just in

18:56

a position where they are able

18:59

to not take in all the

19:01

dogs off the streets, so they

19:03

are able to not employ euthanasia.

19:06

So, you know, that's the situation.

19:08

It's a sad one, but yeah,

19:10

I think it's a really important

19:12

thing to discuss, and I really

19:15

appreciate you writing in, and anyone

19:17

else who is familiar with these

19:19

issues or works in shelters or

19:22

has an opinion on it, please

19:24

feel free to write to me.

19:26

I'd be really happy to hear

19:29

from you. Okay,

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