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turbotax.com/free. 16-year-old Alyssa McGee

0:44

was jolted awake by

0:46

the sound of a

0:49

gunshot and her father's

0:51

scream. She rushed into the living

0:53

room and found 45-year-old J.C. McGee

0:55

lying on the floor covered in

0:58

blood. Minutes later, just next door,

1:00

J.C.'s nephew, Omar Foston called 911

1:02

to report that his house had

1:05

been invaded. His family had been

1:07

tied up and his attackers were

1:09

still inside. As police arrived

1:11

to investigate, they quickly realized

1:14

this wasn't your average robbery

1:16

gone wrong. There were layers

1:18

to this case, from my

1:20

high-stakes custody battle to Jayce's

1:22

work as a confidential informant,

1:24

and as investigators dug deeper,

1:26

it became clear that there

1:28

were several possible suspects, including

1:30

family members. Hello

1:43

everybody, welcome back to Crime Weekly.

1:45

I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm

1:47

Derek Labasser. And as you heard from

1:50

the teaser, we are jumping into a

1:52

completely new case today. Yes, yes we are.

1:54

And it's long overdue. A friend of

1:56

ours, Madison McGee, we met her years

1:59

ago at CrimeCon. is the case we're

2:01

talking about, Jay's is her father. And she

2:03

actually has a podcast as well called Ice

2:05

Cold Case where she's going over her father's

2:08

murder and everything involved with it and trying

2:10

to get justice. And we talked about this

2:12

case a long time ago and we said,

2:14

hey, we want to cover it at some

2:17

point. Originally, I was thinking about covering it

2:19

on detective perspective because it is an unsolved

2:21

case, but there's so much here. And

2:23

detective perspectives of sound bite. It's 45

2:25

minutes tops. This really needed a deep

2:27

dive and obviously Stephanie knows Madison as

2:29

well. So we wanted to do this

2:32

case justice and we're going to cover

2:34

it as best as we can. I

2:36

will say right off the jump here,

2:38

Madison has spent her entire life covering this

2:40

case and studying this case and researching

2:42

this case. So although we're going to

2:44

do the best we can, if you

2:47

really want to hear everything, you need

2:49

to go check out Ice Cold case

2:51

because... Obviously she's going to have more

2:53

information than when we have but we

2:55

will do our best to cover everything

2:58

we can. Of course, of course,

3:00

of course, so a different drive

3:02

there as well, right? So it's,

3:04

you know, so it's, she's trying

3:06

to get justice for her dad.

3:08

So we're going to get into

3:10

it. We'll cover it as best

3:12

as we can. We'll give our

3:14

thoughts on it. Madison is

3:17

genuinely interested in our opinion.

3:19

and a positive outcome in this case.

3:21

Maybe it comes from one of you

3:23

guys, so looking forward to covering it. And

3:26

we are going to dive right in,

3:28

but before we do, I know that

3:30

there was a quick note, Derek wanted

3:32

to. Quick note, I was on vacation,

3:34

so we had banked a couple episodes,

3:37

so the time was a little bit

3:39

off, but as of right now, when

3:41

we're recording this, it's March 10th. Criminal

3:44

Coffee, our new limited edition edition,

3:46

the St Patti's Day edition, Got the

3:48

clover on the sleeve as well. Pretty

3:50

cool. We only have 250 of these

3:52

pieces left. That's it. We're not ordering

3:54

more. Once they go, they go. This

3:56

is not a pre-sale. They're currently in

3:58

the building as we speak. see it on

4:00

the website we have it head on over to

4:02

criminal coffee co.com check it out I've already seen

4:05

a bunch of people tag us with these sweats

4:07

on Instagram so that's it's very cool to see

4:09

they're really cool I like them yeah I love

4:11

it as as someone who has a little Irish

4:13

in them I love the sweatshirt I'm a fan of

4:15

it I was just wearing it before I came in

4:17

yeah I love the colors too

4:20

the white the green the orange

4:22

it's very cool very cool All

4:24

right, so without further ado, let's

4:26

talk about this case and we'll

4:28

start off telling you a little

4:30

bit about the victim in this

4:32

case, John Cornelius McGee, who went

4:34

by J.C. J.C. was born on

4:36

May 4th, 1957 in Wheeling West

4:38

Virginia to parents Daisy and Charles.

4:40

He grew up in a large

4:43

family with eight siblings surrounded by

4:45

cousins, nieces and nephews. As an

4:47

adult, J.C. had a big family

4:49

of his own. He had several

4:51

children with different women, the exact

4:53

number remains uncertain. His youngest daughter

4:55

Madison, who we worked with on

4:57

this series, she said that while

4:59

she wasn't sure of all her

5:01

siblings, she believes Jayce had two

5:03

children when he was a teenager,

5:05

but they haven't done a paternity

5:08

test. There's also rumors of other

5:10

children, though nothing has been confirmed.

5:12

Madison herself is positive about six

5:14

children. That includes her. So there's

5:16

Madison, Kathy, Joel, Yolanda, Elissa, and

5:18

Shane. So Jayce and Madison's mother were

5:20

never married, and by the time he

5:22

was killed, they had already separated. However,

5:24

they did remain on good terms, and

5:27

Jayce helped Madison's mother when she was

5:29

struggling with money or drug dependency. Madison

5:31

spent the majority of her childhood being

5:33

passed back and forth between her parents,

5:35

and she was also raised by her

5:37

grandmother. Because she was so young when

5:39

her father died, Madison's memories of him

5:42

are mostly positive and shaped by her

5:44

age at the time. She remembers her

5:46

dad being funny in me. musical and

5:48

she has fond memories of him singing

5:50

along two Nelly's hot in here album

5:52

in the car and as an adult

5:55

Madison began investigating her dad's murder and

5:57

that's when she started learning more about

5:59

the kind person he was. someone who

6:01

was always willing to help others. JC

6:03

frequently bought dinner for people in need

6:06

and opened his home to those who

6:08

were going through tough times. Many of

6:10

the people he helped were people that

6:13

he met through AA or NA, people

6:15

who were trying to get back on

6:17

their feet. But not everything Madison learned

6:20

was what most daughters would want to

6:22

know about their dads. She told us

6:24

that she's learned things that no one

6:27

wants to know about their parents, and

6:29

probably will never know. about their parents. All

6:31

of this has led her to look at

6:33

her dad as more of a friend than

6:35

a parent. Yeah, you know, and I can

6:37

relate to Madison when it comes

6:39

to investigations like this because even

6:42

I'll give a more basic example,

6:44

we do a lot of air searches

6:47

at break where we're trying to find

6:49

living relatives and it's interesting because when

6:51

I first start the case, you'll

6:53

just see the name Joe Smith. and they'll

6:55

see a date of birth and when they

6:57

died right and then you start to try

6:59

to map out their family tree and as

7:01

you're doing that it's telling you a story

7:03

it's not just names you also see marriages

7:06

and then you look on their social media

7:08

you'll see the trip they went on to

7:10

you know the Bermuda or the the family

7:12

members they had or what they were into

7:14

as far as like race car driving and

7:16

so it starts to tell you a story

7:19

about this person where now they're three-dimensional and

7:21

I can only imagine what that experience

7:23

looking into their father or their mother

7:25

and they don't know much about them

7:27

going into it. But now as they're

7:29

doing research for a really horrific

7:32

incident, they're actually learning about

7:34

who they were as a person. And I think

7:36

that I speak for you as a researcher and

7:38

a writer yourself, you probably feel that as

7:40

well when you start to, you know, you

7:42

know, you know, you know, the headline, right?

7:44

You know why we're covering it. But when,

7:46

and you always do a great job of

7:49

this by adding in things, by adding in,

7:51

I'm sure by the time you're done you

7:53

feel like you know these people. Yeah,

7:55

it's important for me in doing

7:57

the research because now I'm invested. Yeah.

7:59

So I. always start with kind of

8:01

figuring out what their life was like,

8:03

who were they, small details, you know,

8:05

where do they live, what do they

8:07

like to do, what was there a

8:09

dynamic like with their family, things that

8:11

are relatable to us as humans. So

8:13

now I'm invested and as I go

8:15

through the crime itself, the victim is

8:17

a tangible three-dimensional person to me, not

8:19

just a name and a headline. Yeah,

8:21

it's very important. But I would see

8:24

how being a child... and having to do

8:26

this with your father, who you only remember

8:28

from childhood, and finding out, you know, we

8:30

all grow and we find out our parents

8:32

are not perfect and they're fallible and they

8:35

have some idiosyncrasies and maybe they've done things

8:37

in their life that they're not proud of.

8:39

But as she said, we never go this

8:41

deep on our parents. Yeah. we don't we

8:44

don't do that and i don't know if

8:46

i would want to i i don't i

8:48

don't want to actually no obviously under

8:50

terrible circumstances but i'm sure maybe madison

8:53

would disagree you'd have to talk to

8:55

her but maybe a little silver lining

8:57

in this was learning about those things

8:59

those things that she wasn't aware of where

9:01

she saw her dad in person but didn't

9:04

realize some of the things that he was

9:06

doing and in a positive perspective when she

9:08

when he wasn't around yeah but then you find

9:10

out all the stuff all the stuff and everybody

9:12

We all do. If you take the

9:14

time to research us, you'll find some

9:16

things that we may not be proud

9:19

of in our past. Nobody's perfect. Yeah,

9:21

absolutely. So through her research, Madison

9:23

uncovered pieces of her father's past

9:25

that she never expected. In the

9:27

1990s, J.C. owned a bar called

9:29

Johnny Cools in Wheeling, West Virginia,

9:31

which Madison described as a fun

9:33

place to be with a classic

9:35

90s vibe. But beneath the surface,

9:38

things weren't exactly on the up

9:40

and up. Illegal activities like sex

9:42

work and drug deals were common.

9:44

And while Madison believes her dad

9:46

knew what was going on, she

9:48

does not think he was the

9:50

ringleader. Eventually, authorities launched an investigation

9:52

under the RICO Act, which is

9:55

the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations

9:57

Act, a federal law designed to

9:59

fight organized crime and so Johnny

10:01

Cool's was shut down and JCP

10:03

was arrested. facing serious charges, J.C.

10:06

was offered a deal. If he

10:08

cooperated and provided information on the

10:10

drug trafficking operation running through the

10:12

bar, he'd be released and he

10:14

would avoid prosecution. So he took

10:16

the deal testifying in court against

10:18

75 people who were ultimately indicted.

10:21

And one of them was his

10:23

own nephew, RICO, who was sentenced

10:25

to life in prison without the

10:27

possibility of parole. So right off

10:29

the bat, I'm thinking here's 75 people

10:31

that might want to see J. Absolutely.

10:33

And I do want to say one

10:35

thing, and I've said this to Madison

10:37

in person when she originally came to

10:39

us about covering this case. She's not

10:41

doing this for entertainment purposes. She

10:44

wants answers. Regardless of what

10:46

those answers might be, she wants to know the

10:48

truth. So I put this disclaimer out there for

10:50

everybody to let you know that we're

10:52

going to tell our honest opinions. Even

10:54

though we know Madison personally, this

10:56

isn't about covering up certain details to

10:59

paint someone in a certain light. Just

11:01

like on every case we cover, we're going to

11:03

call it how we see it because at the

11:05

end of the day, that's what matters, the truth.

11:07

And I'm sure that that's what Madison

11:10

wants. So going into this, as Stephanie

11:12

had said before that paragraph, J.C.

11:14

was not perfect. He did some things

11:16

that we did not approve of. And

11:19

we're going to cover everything, the good,

11:21

bad, and the in-between. Yeah, and I

11:23

mean, I don't, like you said, she

11:25

does want to know the truth. She wants

11:27

the truth. Yeah, so we're not going to

11:30

say like, oh, we don't want to say

11:32

that we want to say that, we don't

11:34

want to say that, we want to say

11:36

that, we don't want to say that, we

11:38

want to say that, we don't want to

11:41

say that we don't want to come out,

11:43

and be. But in order to take that deal,

11:45

he had to testify against some people who,

11:47

as we know, were not above doing illegal

11:50

activities. So it's a growing suspect list.

11:52

And I'm so glad when you said

11:54

it at the end there, it's a suspect

11:56

pool when we're looking for the answers, where

11:58

we have to ask the question. who would

12:00

want to hurt JC? And as you said,

12:02

there's 75 people right off the

12:04

rip. One of them being his nephew,

12:06

Rico, who would have access and

12:08

probably know his whereabouts, who

12:11

he associates with, where he lives, would

12:13

know a lot about him, yeah.

12:15

That's not someone you want having

12:17

that type of information, and it

12:19

wouldn't be the first time you'd

12:22

have a relative who's the person

12:24

responsible for another relative's death.

12:26

I'm not saying that's the case for

12:28

the case. But I do not know

12:30

the detail, so I'm learning it right

12:32

with you guys. So as expected,

12:34

this decision to testify had its

12:36

consequences. Within his family and beyond,

12:38

Jayce gained a reputation as a snitch.

12:41

But Madison says it wasn't like he

12:43

had a choice. His back was up

12:45

against the wall. In the aftermath, he

12:48

found himself ostracized, not just by

12:50

some of his relatives, but also by

12:52

people in the community who no longer

12:54

felt that he could be trusted. With

12:57

his reputation damaged and no job

12:59

to fall back on, J.C. needed a

13:01

way to make money. That's when he

13:03

became a confidential informant for the Belmont

13:06

County Sheriff's Department, which Madison was able

13:08

to confirm through police records she obtained.

13:10

Being an informant weighed heavily on J.C.

13:12

and Madison believes the moral struggle of

13:15

working with the police while living in

13:17

a community that viewed him as a

13:19

traitor did take a toll on Jayce's

13:21

mental health. She said, quote, my dad

13:23

struggled with a lot of depression and

13:26

anxiety, and I think if my dad

13:28

wasn't murdered, the moral struggle would have

13:30

killed him, end quote. Yeah, and this

13:32

is interesting to me, obviously, from the

13:35

mental aspect of it, I've worked with

13:37

a lot of confidential informants and it

13:39

can be very stressful because they live

13:41

in the community that they're currently working

13:43

against. I do, I do raise an eyebrow

13:46

a little bit because in one sentence you're

13:48

saying, that he's already been established as a

13:50

snitch right and I'm just talking as a

13:52

former narcotics detective most of the snitches

13:54

that worked for us hadn't been exposed yet

13:56

like we might arrest them for something but

13:58

they get released without charge or the court

14:00

date gets pushed down the road, we

14:03

want as little people as possible to

14:05

know that they've been found guilty

14:07

or arrested for anything. Because

14:09

that obviously changes their credibility

14:11

and people won't trust them,

14:13

people won't sell drugs to

14:15

them. So in one breath,

14:17

he's lost this credibility, he's

14:19

lost street credit, to put it

14:21

more specifically, and yet he's still

14:24

working as a CI. And so I could see that

14:26

being... Kind of difficult because you already

14:28

have people who don't trust you so any

14:30

house or or dealer he goes to I

14:32

would assume would be extremely skeptical Yeah,

14:34

of him and and and again thinking

14:37

from narcotics perspective is someone like JC

14:39

going to be able to infiltrate the

14:41

top people No, they were not going

14:44

to let anybody who snitched on anybody

14:46

else. Yes, he's going to be able to go

14:48

as deep as he needs to go. Yeah, so I'm

14:50

guessing here and if I'm wrong on any

14:52

of this Madison will correct me When we're

14:54

talking about as a CI, I think

14:57

he's probably doing a lot of low-level

14:59

stuff. Street dealers, hand-to-hand transactions,

15:01

just quick buys, where JC's

15:04

not even necessarily familiar with

15:06

the person, but I had

15:08

confidential performance that I would say,

15:11

hey, there's someone selling over on Darling

15:13

Street, I need you just to walk

15:15

up to them and see if you can

15:17

buy from him and do a hand-to-hand. And

15:19

the CI would do that. They didn't

15:22

have a previous relationship. those

15:24

confidential informants would work. They were

15:26

at the high-level ones. I have to

15:28

imagine that's what JC was doing based

15:30

on his reputation within that community. So

15:32

could he also be giving some like

15:35

insight into the behind the scenes of

15:37

a large operation? Because it does seem

15:39

like it was a large, like 75

15:41

people that he testified against. That's a

15:43

lot of people included, so could he

15:46

be kind of like, maybe he only

15:48

testified against these people in court and

15:50

during the trial, but he has... more

15:52

information on them and more information on

15:55

the people they work for and so

15:57

he's kind of giving that out Yeah

15:59

infrastructure. Yeah competitors, also the manners of

16:01

operation, you know, what type of

16:03

cars they use, what type of

16:06

tactics they're implementing to avoid apprehension

16:08

or detection. There could have been a

16:10

lot of things and yeah, if you're

16:13

someone who's willing to divulge that information

16:15

and help out on other cases where

16:17

I would almost refer to them

16:19

as a consultant, where I've definitely

16:22

consulted with former drug deals to

16:24

say, hey, we have this target, not going to

16:26

tell you a name, we're getting the buy. But

16:28

for some reason, they never go back to the

16:30

house where the product is. How are they doing

16:32

this? Like, you know, what, and they'd say, oh,

16:34

they got magnets under the cars. They're putting the

16:37

stuff in storage magnets under the car.

16:39

Exactly. Yeah, like a consultant, like I

16:41

think of Frank Ebig now and catch me

16:43

if you can and how he sort of,

16:45

right? Yeah, like he knew all of this

16:47

information and he only gave what he needed

16:49

to get his deal, but now he's got

16:51

a plethora of knowledge. that he can share

16:53

to go kind of deeper into the operations

16:55

and how it's done because they probably a

16:58

lot of these criminal organizations probably follow the

17:00

same sorts of patterns and do the same

17:02

tactics. Completely agree. Yeah, it's a good analogy.

17:04

So that's my guess on what JC was

17:06

doing, a lot of low level stuff, but

17:08

again, these are all people even though they're

17:10

just low level people where if they're

17:12

being arrested for transactions that

17:14

are occurring with JC and they're able

17:17

to connect the dots at trial because

17:19

a confidential witness. is different than

17:21

a confidential informant. Confidential

17:23

informants, when we use them, we're using

17:26

them in an affidavit to say, hey,

17:28

CI1 made two buys on these dates,

17:30

and then we'll have to actually do,

17:32

we'll get the search warrant based on

17:35

that affidavit. We hit the house, and

17:37

then based on what we find in

17:39

the house, that's what the dealers arrested

17:41

for, not those previous buys. A confidential

17:44

witness will make those buys. We

17:46

can get an arrest warrant for

17:48

that person and the reason we're

17:50

able to do that is because

17:52

the confidential witness will testify

17:54

at court. So if he's a CI, they were

17:56

trying to avoid revealing who he was,

17:59

but that does. doesn't mean that if

18:01

multiple dealers are arrested, they don't

18:03

start to compare notes and realize

18:05

based on the affidavit for the

18:07

search warrant who they sold to

18:09

on those days. Perfect, exactly. Exactly.

18:11

So there's a lot that he

18:14

could be doing from the capacity of

18:16

a CI and some of it could

18:18

be active out on the streets, but

18:20

like you said, he's not infiltrating any

18:23

of these other big organizations because he

18:25

has a reputation. However. It looks

18:27

like he's gonna sort of maybe

18:29

not stay in Wheeling, West Virginia,

18:32

because he was still working

18:34

as a confidential informant in

18:36

July of 2002, while living

18:38

on Berkeley Avenue and Bridgeport,

18:40

Ohio, just across the Ohio

18:42

River, from Wheeling, West Virginia.

18:44

So maybe, you know, he

18:47

moved out of community. Moved

18:49

a little geographically. Yeah,

18:51

that's what we did. Yeah, didn't have

18:53

such a bad reputation there.

18:55

can't be shitting where you eat. It's

18:57

tough. So he might have actually worked

18:59

another community where he has the savvy

19:02

and he has the know-how and he

19:04

knows how these groups work, where it's just

19:06

what I just said. I could send a CI

19:08

onto a street that they weren't familiar with.

19:10

They would come back to me two

19:12

hours later with three different houses. That

19:14

they, just by communicating, using the

19:17

verbiage because of their ability to

19:19

know what's going on, they're able

19:21

to get into those groups pretty

19:23

quickly. use his street knowledge to

19:25

gain their trust for a people

19:28

that weren't familiar with who he

19:30

was. Yeah, because Belmont, so the Belmont

19:32

County Sheriff's Department, that is in Ohio,

19:34

not in Wheeling, West Virginia, so he

19:36

got burned in Wheeling, but now he

19:39

moves across into a different, even though

19:41

it's kind of close geographically, he moves

19:43

to a different area, different state, and

19:45

he doesn't, his reputation has not proceeded

19:48

him. Yeah. So that would, that would

19:50

make more sense with what I was

19:52

saying earlier, as far as having your

19:54

reputation as a snitch in that one

19:56

community, maybe that information doesn't travel to

19:59

this other area. to go in there and

20:01

start to build some relationships with some

20:03

of the low-level dealers. And maybe he

20:05

did get a little higher. I don't know. Well,

20:07

we would never know. It's confidential. It's

20:09

confidential. But I'm sure a lot of

20:11

it, well, that's the question, right? Like,

20:14

he was a confidential informant, and I

20:16

don't want to put the cart before

20:18

the horse, but this is going to

20:20

come into question when we start talking

20:22

about his murder, because as detectives, we

20:24

are responsible for the safety. and

20:26

there's a possibility that he was killed

20:29

because of the work he was doing

20:31

for us. That's a big deal. That's a

20:33

really big deal. But that happens a

20:35

lot, right? Like... It's never knock on

20:37

what happened to me, but absolutely it

20:39

can happen. Yeah. That is a dangerous

20:41

name, and that's the takeaway here as

20:43

we go into this first break, right?

20:45

Is bottom line, Jayce was in a

20:48

very dangerous situation and he was making

20:50

a lot of enemies. And making a lot

20:52

of moves, so let's take a quick break,

20:54

and we'll be right back. Are

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22:20

right, so like I said before

22:22

the break. Jayce went ahead left

22:24

wheeling, he moved across the Ohio

22:27

River to Bridgeport Ohio, and he

22:29

lived on Berkeley Avenue in Bridgeport.

22:31

And his house was actually right

22:34

next door to his sister Pearl

22:36

and his nephew Omar Foston. And

22:38

he had custody of his 16-year-old

22:41

daughter Alyssa. So Jayce saw his

22:43

other children as often as possible,

22:45

including Madison, who was about to

22:48

turn seven years old that same

22:50

month. But tragically, All of that

22:52

was about to be stolen away from

22:54

him and his family. At 641 a.m.

22:56

on July 11th, Alyssa called 911 and

22:58

reported that her father had been shot

23:00

inside their home. She told the dispatcher

23:03

that she was in her bedroom when

23:05

she heard a pop followed by her

23:07

father screaming and the sound of something

23:09

hitting the floor. Grabbing a pair of

23:11

nonchucks, which is bad-ass by the way,

23:13

she rushed into the living room less

23:15

than a minute later where she found

23:17

her father lying on the floor. Most

23:19

of his body was in the living room,

23:22

but his head and shoulders were at the

23:24

head of the hallway leading to the bedrooms.

23:26

He was only wearing his boxers and a

23:28

chain. Jacey was unresponsive and Elissa didn't think

23:30

he was breathing. The front door was slightly

23:33

open about three inches, but that didn't make

23:35

sense. The front door of their home was

23:37

always locked. It had two locks, one on

23:40

the doorknob and a dead bolt. There was

23:42

also an alarm system, but it was only

23:44

used when no one was home because it

23:46

would trigger if someone walked into the living

23:49

room. So it kind of sounds like maybe

23:51

they had motion sensors as well. if there

23:53

was an alarm system that would trigger if

23:55

someone walked into the living room. Yeah, that would

23:57

make sense. Some type of motion system, of course. Yeah.

24:00

So the dispatcher asked Alyssa if anyone

24:02

else had been in the home with

24:04

them and she said no as far

24:06

as she knew it was just her

24:08

and her father. When asked where J.C.

24:10

had been shot, Alyssa said she couldn't

24:12

tell because there was so much blood

24:14

on his body, but later she said

24:16

it looked like he had been shot

24:18

in the head. The dispatcher then asked

24:20

if she could see a gun near

24:22

Jacey's body and Alyssa responded that she

24:24

couldn't. She explained that Jayce kept several

24:26

guns in the house, including a loaded

24:28

rifle in a nearby closet for safety,

24:30

but the closet was closed and there

24:32

were no guns out in the open

24:34

at that time. And then, things got

24:36

even stranger. At 6.44am, just three minutes

24:39

after Alyssa's 911 call began, Jayce's nephew

24:41

Omar Foster, who lived next door with

24:43

his mother Pearl, also called 9-1-1, and

24:46

told the dispatcher that his house had

24:48

just been robbed. The dispatcher recognized the

24:50

street and told the street and told

24:52

Omar that first responders were already on

24:55

the way, then asked if the people

24:57

being robbed were the McGee's. That's when

24:59

Omar blurted out, quote, they got my

25:01

mom, they got my mom and my

25:03

girl, they got my mom and my

25:06

girl, and quote, his voice was panicked

25:08

and frantic, as he continued saying that

25:10

there were three men and that they

25:12

were going to kill them. He didn't

25:14

say who them was, but I think

25:16

it's safe to assume he's saying him,

25:18

his mother and his girlfriend, so Omar

25:20

is telling the dispatcher, hey, they're still

25:22

in here. Now, when the dispatcher asked

25:25

if he knew the attackers, Omar said,

25:27

yes, but then his voice became inaudible.

25:29

The only words that could be clearly

25:31

made out were, quote, from California,

25:33

end quote. Omar also reported seeing

25:35

a black van with Ohio license

25:37

plates. He told the dispatcher that

25:39

the men had held him hostage,

25:41

but he had managed to escape

25:43

by jumping a fence, and then

25:46

the call abruptly ended, and moments

25:48

later a panic alarm went off.

25:50

at Omar's house. And this like

25:52

already to me sounds a little

25:54

sketchy because it's like you were

25:56

being held hostage but then you

25:58

were able to escape by jump. offense? Like,

26:00

how do you go from being

26:02

a hostage one minute and being

26:04

free enough to jump offense the next?

26:07

Yeah, I'm trying not to look too

26:09

far down the road, but I agree

26:11

with you at this point. It does

26:13

seem like, well, there's two things here,

26:16

right? It could be that the same three

26:18

men who ended up robbing Omar

26:20

knew based on their counter

26:22

surveillance, based on their reconnaissance,

26:24

that Jacey was next door, maybe

26:27

in possession of a gun. before

26:29

they can rob Omar. So there could be truth

26:31

here, but there's also a world where

26:33

I'm sure some of you already saying

26:35

it. Oh, Omar is covering his tracks

26:37

because he's somehow involved with what happened

26:39

to Jay-C and now he's trying to

26:41

make himself look like a victim as

26:43

well. So I got my head going

26:45

in multiple directions right now. I

26:48

think a lot of scenarios are at

26:50

play here. But let's talk about Jay-C

26:52

real quick because that's what we're covering

26:54

on this on this podcast. And I

26:56

want to talk more about his death

26:58

because... There are some things that are

27:00

a little questionable here. You have, it's

27:02

641 in the morning, so he's, I'm

27:04

assuming he was in bed, he's still

27:06

in his box, is just wearing

27:08

a chain. At this point, Elissa, Elissa

27:11

only hears the screaming. No, she

27:13

hears a pop. She hears the pop,

27:15

then the screaming. And then what

27:17

sounds like something hitting the floor,

27:19

which most likely was his body.

27:22

Yeah. So the doors unlocked at this

27:24

point, and slightly a jar. So

27:26

my first assumption is that JC

27:28

unlocked the door. It was somebody he

27:30

knew at the door. Or he heard a

27:32

knock or whatever. I don't know if

27:34

there's a keyhole there, but for some

27:36

reason, those two locks, the door wasn't

27:38

busted open. But here's my question. He's

27:40

kind of paranoid and suspicious, right? Obviously,

27:42

he's got security. Obviously, he knows he's

27:45

not like, you know, Mr. a lot

27:47

of people and so don't you think

27:49

that he would answer the door more

27:51

cautiously if he was going to open

27:53

it like he if he's got guns

27:55

in the house he would have a

27:57

gun when he walks to the door

27:59

to unlock it Well, let me throw a

28:01

scenario where he wouldn't do that.

28:03

What if he looked through the door

28:05

of the people and he noticed somebody

28:07

he recognized, maybe a family

28:10

member? Someone he trusted, yeah. Then he

28:12

wouldn't do that, would he? So, like

28:14

I said, these are all things I'm

28:17

thinking. I don't want to skew anybody,

28:19

because I don't want to skew anybody,

28:21

because I don't know. This is

28:23

an unsolved case, right? So, he clearly

28:26

had some enemies, so you would

28:28

think he'd be more cautious. So he

28:30

opens the door and then he gets shot. I'm

28:32

assuming unexpectedly the person standing there

28:34

with a gun. And then that's

28:36

when he yells and that's when he

28:38

hits the floor. So that's what we

28:40

have right now with him. And then

28:43

obviously we have this separate situation with

28:45

Omar, which happens only a few seconds

28:47

later. The difference here is that he's

28:49

saying he was robbed and that people were

28:51

held captive. Well, if the three men

28:53

had also shot JC, wouldn't they go in

28:55

and robbed the place? They just took out

28:57

the victim. There's really no resistance

28:59

at that point. Are they going to

29:01

be scared of the girl with non-chucks?

29:04

I don't think so. I mean,

29:06

it depends how deadly she was with

29:08

those onchacks. I mean, she might have

29:10

been surgical. She might have been like,

29:12

I know. I know. But my point

29:15

being, if they're going there and JC's

29:17

just the first line of defense,

29:19

where there's something they're

29:21

going in there to get, why would

29:23

they stop after shooting him and he

29:25

was able to escape? So... Seems like

29:28

a little bit different of an MO, even

29:30

though it was in the same building at

29:32

the same time. Well, based on the crime

29:34

scene, it looks maybe like J.C. did not

29:36

answer the door. Maybe he heard somebody

29:38

coming in, made his way from the

29:40

bedrooms, because remember where he was found,

29:43

kind of half between the main part

29:45

of the house and where the bedrooms

29:47

are located, and then he got taken

29:49

out all the way there. Yes. Interesting. So

29:51

that would mean someone had a key to

29:54

the door, right? Or kicked it open. Was there

29:56

damage? Was there damage? Am I getting ahead of here? Was there's...

29:58

Am I getting in front of my skis? Were there... Was there

30:00

damage to the door? So when the police

30:02

arrived, they responded to both the

30:04

McGee and the Foston homes. Now

30:07

once Jacey's house was cleared, first

30:09

responders confirmed. that Jayce was dead. He'd

30:11

been shot once in the head. An

30:13

autopsy later determined that he'd been shot

30:16

in the left temple with the bullet

30:18

exiting through the back of his head,

30:20

but the shot had not been fired

30:23

at close range. So police examined the

30:25

scene, obviously. They found brain matter on

30:27

the carpet about six feet from the

30:30

front door and blood was present between

30:32

the doorway and Jayce's body. Investigators found

30:34

blood spatter on the wall and a

30:36

badly damaged bullet behind the front door.

30:39

The door itself showed signs of fourth

30:41

entry. There were three kick marks on

30:43

it, and both the door frame trim

30:45

and the dead bolt had been broken

30:47

loose. The doorknob had slammed so hard

30:49

into the wall that it left a

30:51

hole. Wow. I know. So I got

30:54

ahead of myself then, right? Where we're

30:56

speculating, and this goes to show you,

30:58

I don't know the script, right? But

31:00

that makes more sense, right? So there

31:02

was, even though Elissa only heard the

31:04

pop of the gunshot of the gunshot

31:06

shot, she didn't. Something got

31:08

his attention and he was up or was

31:11

woken up by the kicking of the door

31:13

And we've all seen that right where you

31:15

open a door a little too hard and

31:17

the door knob smashes through the drywall. I

31:19

think everyone's done that once or twice So

31:21

it's not hard to believe that the doorknob

31:23

would cause damage so clearly This was

31:25

a attempted robbery home evasion or they

31:28

were going there for JC specifically, but I

31:30

will say if this was just some random

31:32

robber that's a hell of a shot and

31:34

they could have gotten lucky But a headshot

31:36

like that from six to eight feet away,

31:38

that's a distance. And most people

31:40

wouldn't go for the headshot. Most

31:43

people would aim for the chest. But

31:45

so you're saying it's somebody who's

31:47

pretty skilled with a gun? Probably shot

31:49

a gun once or twice in their life.

31:51

Yeah. Well, during a search of the yard,

31:53

police found a black flashlight and Alyssa said,

31:55

you know, she didn't recognize it. She knew

31:58

that her father J.C. had a flashlight. So

32:00

maybe we're kind of looking at the

32:02

fact that this was not just somebody

32:04

walking up to the house at like

32:07

640 a.m. Maybe they've been there a

32:09

little earlier since it was dark or

32:11

maybe they had been there earlier, since

32:13

it was dark, or maybe they had

32:16

been there earlier at night kind of

32:18

casing it out using a flashlight.

32:20

Now why they would leave the

32:22

flashlight? I don't know, but that's what

32:24

we got. The flashlight could also

32:26

just be a random flashlight that

32:29

was... in the possession of the offenders prior to

32:31

the incident. But as we know Jayce's

32:33

house wasn't the only crime scene and

32:35

police still had to investigate what had

32:37

happened next door at Omar's house. So

32:39

when officers arrived the door to the

32:41

Boston home was wide open. Omar's girlfriend

32:43

Kim Smith ran up to them her

32:45

wrists were deeply marked and she had

32:47

a phone cord wrapped around one of

32:50

them. She had a bump on her

32:52

head where she'd been hit with a

32:54

gun and a nail was embedded in

32:56

her foot. Now inside the house police

32:58

found Omar's mother pearl on the floor

33:00

on the floor. asking for help to

33:02

get up and like Kim she also

33:04

had marks on her wrists. Moments later,

33:06

Omar walked into the house. He started

33:08

yelling that he was going to get

33:11

the people who did this. He had

33:13

visible injuries to his head and hands

33:15

and Kim confirmed that he too had

33:17

been pistol whipped. Police cleared the home

33:19

but no one else was inside. The

33:21

house had been ransacked, a ripped phone

33:23

cord, and another phone wire were found

33:25

lying on a chair and on the

33:28

floor and the strong scent of rubbing

33:30

alcohol. in the air. Police removed Omar

33:32

Pearl and Kim from the house as

33:34

well as Alyssa from Jayce's home. Alyssa

33:37

and her mother Barbara were interviewed by

33:39

investigators and Alyssa was asked to walk

33:41

them through what happened in the hours

33:43

leading up to her father's murder. She

33:46

said that on the evening of July

33:48

10th, so the night before, J.C. went

33:50

to a narcotics anonymous meeting. At 7.50

33:53

p.m. he called to let her know

33:55

that he was heading to the hospital

33:57

to see a friend's baby and he

34:00

also mentioned picking up Chinese food.

34:02

Later that night at around 10,

34:04

10 p.m. Alyssa called J.C. asking

34:06

where he was. She wanted this

34:08

food that he was supposed to

34:10

bring home. Some time later, J.C.

34:12

finally returned. That night, Alyssa didn't

34:14

sleep well and Jacey came into

34:16

her room twice. The first time

34:19

was around 2 a.m. Alyssa asked

34:21

if everything was okay and Jacey

34:23

said yes, he just wanted to

34:25

make sure she was still there.

34:27

The second time was around 350

34:29

a.m. And this time he didn't

34:31

say anything. They just looked at each

34:33

other before Alyssa rolled over and fell

34:36

back asleep. Alyssa said that to her

34:38

knowledge, Jacey slept in his bed in

34:40

his bed that night. She wasn't. though

34:43

sometimes he did wake up as early

34:45

as 6 a.m. So then at around

34:47

640 a.m. everything changed. Alyssa said

34:49

that after hearing the pop, she

34:52

ran out of her bedroom, saw

34:54

her father covered in blood. In

34:56

shock, she looked out the window

34:58

looking for any sign of someone

35:00

fleeing the scene, but she said

35:03

there was no people, no cars,

35:05

nothing. Okay. So what do you

35:07

think about Alyssa waking up twice

35:09

and JCP kind of being there,

35:11

2 o' o'clock and 3. I don't

35:13

know if he was going to a

35:15

hospital to see a friend's baby. I

35:17

don't know if he was going to

35:19

meet up with friends. I don't know

35:21

if he was getting, you know, Chinese

35:23

food. Obviously, if his daughter's calling him

35:25

a 10-10, like, where's the Chinese food?

35:27

Most restaurants are closed by Ben. Yeah, did

35:30

he bring the Chinese food home? I don't,

35:32

I wouldn't say so because... you know, it

35:34

didn't say that he did. I'm sure the

35:36

police reports would say whether or not Chinese

35:39

food was found in the home or Chinese

35:41

food packaging, things like that. Also they could

35:43

look at cameras and everything like that

35:45

to see his whereabouts, did he, what

35:47

restaurant did he go to, all those things?

35:49

Yeah, like what friends, baby, was he visiting

35:52

the hospital? So if he didn't go to

35:54

do all of these things that he said

35:56

he was going to do, what was he

35:58

doing? What was he doing? a little

36:00

paranoid and nervous where he's gonna walk

36:02

into his daughter's bedroom a few times

36:05

during the night to just quote unquote

36:07

check to make sure she's still there

36:09

like maybe check to make sure she's

36:12

okay and and nothing's nothing's

36:14

going on. Yeah so as far as Elissa

36:16

coming out of the room hearing the pop

36:18

after hearing the pop and seeing her

36:20

father and not seeing any people or

36:23

cars outside it could be something it

36:25

might be nothing. because if you've ever

36:27

been woken up like that we all

36:29

have that moment where everything's kind of

36:31

moving in slow motion when you're abruptly

36:33

woken up and so when you first come

36:35

out there seconds could be the difference here

36:37

where if you come out you're looking down you

36:39

see your father I'm assuming she's going over to

36:42

him to maybe shake him see if he's okay

36:44

see what's going on then she looks up doesn't

36:46

see the cars if there were people there they

36:48

could have already fled the area at that

36:50

point those seconds would be the difference

36:52

it wouldn't That could be why she

36:54

didn't see anyone. Now, I don't think

36:57

I'm going out on a limb here

36:59

saying that to me, two houses in

37:01

close proximity like that, in that amount

37:03

of time, having those incidents occur,

37:05

it's highly likely that they're

37:07

connected. They're related. They're connected.

37:10

We don't know how. That's

37:12

why we're here. But I think it's highly

37:14

unlikely that you had a premeditated

37:17

murder happening at one house, and

37:19

next door you had this robbery

37:21

slash home invasion. It just doesn't

37:23

seem likely that they're not connected.

37:26

So how they're connected is the

37:28

real question here. Do you

37:30

have the same offenders carrying out two

37:32

different crimes? Or do you have someone

37:35

not being honest with us and the

37:37

two crimes are actually not happening

37:39

simultaneously, but consecutively? Right? One crime

37:42

happened and then the other one

37:44

was staged to happen that way.

37:46

Okay, so check this out. What if

37:48

this? Okay, what if it's the same

37:51

offenders, but they break up into two

37:53

separate groups, they send one group over

37:55

to Omar's house, they're like, tie these

37:57

people up so they can't interfere and

37:59

almost sign. Once those three people are secured in the

38:01

house, Omar, his mother, and his girlfriend, now they give word

38:03

to the other people who are standing ready outside of Jayce's

38:06

house and they say, okay, go in, quick, boom, boom, boom,

38:08

kicks to the door, it opens, Jayce comes towards them, they

38:10

shoot him once in the head and they're out of there.

38:12

Yeah, so it could have even been one person, right? Like

38:14

three people in Omar's house? It could have been, technically, yeah.

38:17

Just one, the best shot, the best shot going into

38:19

the best shot going into the best shot going into

38:21

the other shot going into the other place going into

38:23

the other place going into the other place, going into

38:25

the other place. But then we just got

38:27

to think about motive. What's the

38:29

reason? That would be a seriously

38:31

well-trained assassin though, to go in

38:33

to a house, take three people,

38:35

and tie them up without being

38:37

stopped, then to go boom, kick,

38:39

shoot one, and then they'd have

38:41

to go, boom, kick, shoot one, and then

38:44

they'd have to go and, you know,

38:46

at some point, you know, escape, somehow.

38:48

And then the question is, why

38:50

didn't the other offenders just shoot

38:52

Omar, shoot Omar? and then you

38:54

can do whatever you want to do.

38:56

So why keep Kim Pearl and Omar

38:59

alive but shoot John without any type

39:01

of, because Elissa would have heard the

39:03

conversation, if there was a conversation happening

39:06

between John and the offender slash offenders,

39:08

she would have heard something, a voice,

39:10

a struggle, anything. Doesn't seem like

39:12

anything was said. Door got popped open,

39:15

John standing there, he gets shot. So

39:17

a lot of questions. Omar told the 911

39:19

operator that he knew the people who had

39:21

come into his house. but you know then

39:23

it was in audible they can only hear

39:25

him say some about California so why I want

39:27

to see how that call kind of develops because I'm

39:29

sure that it was not going to be the last

39:31

time we hear about Omar yeah so why would

39:33

you leave Omar and his girlfriend and mother alive

39:35

if they're able to potentially identify you yeah exactly

39:38

if you're going there and he knows who you

39:40

are you got to kill him or there's going

39:42

to be retaliation the question for me as we

39:44

go into this next break is going to be

39:46

okay if your scenario is right And this was

39:48

a collaborative effort, right? This was

39:50

a premeditated setup where there's a

39:52

small group of people who are

39:54

targeting two specific houses at the

39:56

exact same time. Well, that means that

39:58

Omar and JCR somehow... being connected by

40:01

this group. And the question is how?

40:03

Well, they're related. Well, they're related, but

40:05

it's more than just being related. What

40:07

is Omar and JC involved in where

40:09

this group is taking them out? Mm-hmm.

40:12

Absolutely. Well, we know that when

40:14

J.C. testified against those 75 people,

40:16

one of them was his own

40:18

nephew. RICO. RICO. RICO, right? So

40:21

obviously he's not adverse to

40:23

working with family in these

40:25

legal matters. So is Omar

40:27

involved in something or was

40:29

Omar involved in that before? And

40:31

now maybe he and J. C. have

40:33

a new sort of thing going on

40:35

that that people became aware of. So

40:37

many questions. Yeah. Madison is

40:40

doing what she's doing because

40:42

already we're only halfway through

40:44

this episode and I have so

40:46

many questions. So we'll take our

40:48

second break, we'll be right back.

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skins.com. All right so we're back

42:14

now Alyssa and her mother Barbara

42:16

were asked about Jayce's life leading

42:19

up to his murder and according

42:21

to them he'd been under a

42:23

lot of stress mostly due to

42:25

an ongoing custody battle over his

42:27

youngest child Shane. Now, Shane was

42:30

born to a woman named Denin,

42:32

who was a sex worker. And

42:34

though Madison isn't sure if Denin

42:36

and Jacey were in a relationship

42:38

or if their encounter was transactional,

42:41

right, we know that when Denin

42:43

got pregnant, there was uncertainty about

42:45

whether J. C was the father,

42:47

but regardless, Denin decided she wanted

42:49

to keep the baby. So she

42:52

went to a house in Philadelphia,

42:54

known as Madame Maurice, took in

42:56

pregnant women who wanted to give

42:58

up their babies. She arranged a...

43:00

legal adoptions, charging $20,000 per child.

43:02

Of that amount, the mother would

43:04

receive $5,000, while Madame Marie, the

43:07

doctor, and the lawyer involved, each

43:09

took a cut of the remaining

43:11

money. So it sounds like this

43:13

is a whole kind of elaborate

43:15

operation, a legal scheme on its

43:17

own, you know, where we've got this

43:20

illegal adoption happening, this adoption

43:22

for money, basically, which adoptions

43:25

should never. be up for-profit

43:27

sort of business. And there's

43:29

what appears to be a

43:32

legitimate doctor and a legitimate

43:34

lawyer involved, and they're benefiting

43:37

financially from this, as well

43:39

as Madame Marie, who's out

43:41

here just selling babies. Selling babies,

43:44

basically, right? And the mother who

43:46

has to carry the child for

43:48

nine months and has to actually

43:51

go through the labor, she gets

43:53

5, so obviously. So obviously.

43:55

not the biggest cut of this

43:57

20 grand and are the adapt

44:00

parents being vetted properly?

44:02

Are we sure that

44:04

these children, these babies,

44:06

are going to safe

44:09

places or because it's

44:11

illegal and it's not really

44:13

on the up and up, is

44:15

that that background check

44:18

process not as thorough as

44:20

it should be? Yeah, are they looking

44:22

the other way? Right, so you

44:25

could be selling, you know,

44:27

babies to... Yeah, just people who are

44:29

like, oh yeah, we want babies and

44:31

yeah, they're grooming. Yeah, it's pretty, pretty scary.

44:33

Absolutely. Terrifying. And I mean,

44:35

this kind of stuff does happen with

44:37

legit legal, you know, adoptions as well.

44:40

You can only background check someone so

44:42

much. You don't know what secrets they

44:44

have hidden in their closet, but probably

44:46

more likely to happen if you're doing

44:48

an adoption under the table for financial

44:50

profit. And if you're doing it under

44:53

the table, the question is why. Yeah.

44:55

Why are you going this route? There's

44:57

usually a reason behind it. Well,

44:59

Madison isn't sure what changed, but

45:01

after giving birth, Denise ultimately decided

45:03

to keep her baby. Thank God.

45:05

In a way, thank God. So

45:08

she took Shane back to Ohio

45:10

with her, backing out of that

45:12

adoption, despite already having cashed the

45:14

$5,000 check she was given. Because

45:16

the process was illegal, the couple

45:18

who had planned to adopt Shane

45:20

had no legal recourse. So when

45:23

Shane was born, he was born

45:25

addicted to heroin because Danine had

45:27

relapsed during her pregnancy. It's so

45:29

sad. J.C. fought for custody, but

45:31

despite Shane's condition, Danine was allowed

45:33

to have him most of the

45:36

time while waiting for a final

45:38

court hearing scheduled for July 12th,

45:40

2002, which happened to be just

45:42

one day after J.C. was murdered,

45:44

right? So once again, suspect list

45:46

is growing. We've got J. J.C.

45:48

involved in testifying against these 75

45:50

dangerous people. we've got him maybe

45:53

not being the the most well-liked

45:55

person amongst his family friends and

45:57

community and now we have this

45:59

we a legal adoption where

46:01

he's trying to get custody of

46:03

his son, obviously the person he

46:06

had this son with does not

46:08

want to give him this child.

46:10

And a day before, there's supposed

46:12

to be a hearing to talk

46:14

about this custody issue, Jayce's

46:17

dad. Yeah, I still have the

46:19

question of how Omar ties into all

46:21

this though. Like yeah, it all makes

46:23

sense to me on the surface for

46:25

that. But why would they go after

46:27

Omar in his family? So we'll

46:29

let it keep going, but that is

46:31

the question. All this makes sense until

46:33

you add Omar's predicament into

46:35

the scenario. Well, while things were

46:38

still unfolding in court. Jay-C because

46:40

remember he'd bend over backwards for

46:42

people. He let Dine and Shane

46:44

stay on his property for a

46:46

time and he helped care for

46:48

his son. Prior to Jay-C's murder,

46:50

Dine moved into her boyfriend's place.

46:52

His name was Dwayne Butchy Griffin,

46:54

right? So is Dwayne involved in

46:57

this, right? Is Dwayne seeing like,

46:59

oh, this guy might come and

47:01

take Shane? because Denine has a

47:03

drug problem. Shane was born addicted

47:05

to heroin, so this drug problem

47:07

is pretty relevant. It's also showing how

47:09

it negatively affects this child already before

47:11

he even gets a start in life.

47:13

But Denine doesn't want to lose Shane

47:15

because if she had wanted to lose

47:18

Shane, she would have given him up

47:20

for adoption as she had planned. She

47:22

clearly bonded with this child during the

47:24

birth process. So what's happening here now

47:26

is she tells her boyfriend, hey, we gotta

47:28

take this guy out because... I don't want

47:30

to lose my child. I mean, we've

47:33

seen that. Yeah, it's a strong,

47:35

I think it's a strong motive.

47:37

I think a few of the

47:39

scenarios you've laid out are strong motives.

47:41

I just, and I don't want

47:44

to sound like a broken record,

47:46

I just, I'm trying to think

47:48

if I'm, okay, let's play it out,

47:50

Duane, Butchy Griffin's here, and

47:53

I'm like, okay, I'm going

47:55

to go kill my girlfriend's son.

47:57

I want her to be a strong

47:59

motive. and go to a separate

48:01

house that belongs to J.C.'s nephew

48:03

and his sister and tie them

48:05

up, abduct them and pistol whip

48:07

them just to go over there

48:09

and kill J.C. To stop them

48:12

from interfering. But then why wouldn't

48:14

you kill them then? Because now

48:16

they are going to be able

48:18

to identify you. Right. Yeah, it's

48:20

a good question. So it's like

48:22

you're adding more eyes to the

48:24

actual crime. You're creating a higher

48:26

probability that you're going to get

48:28

caught. Well, what do you always

48:30

say, Derek? If criminals were smart,

48:32

they would never get caught. Yeah,

48:34

I mean, that's true. I just,

48:36

I feel like, at least in

48:38

theory, what they wanted to do

48:40

would make sense, even though they

48:42

don't execute it correctly, which is

48:44

why we catch them. But in

48:47

theory, it's like, even if they're

48:49

sitting at their little, you know,

48:51

meet up beforehand going, okay, this

48:53

is what we're gonna do. We're

48:55

gonna hit Jay C's house, they

48:57

could hear us. and come over

48:59

and try to help him. But

49:01

they were in and out so

49:03

fast. Or see, or see the

49:05

person, like maybe if they could,

49:07

they heard a gunshot, maybe Omar,

49:09

his girlfriend, his mom, rushed to

49:11

the window, they see the person

49:13

who did it. I don't know.

49:15

It just, it doesn't seem like

49:17

even when they would be saying

49:20

it out loud beforehand, it would

49:22

make a lot of sense where

49:24

they'd go, yeah, that's, that's how

49:26

we should do it. That would

49:28

line up, that would line up,

49:30

I guess would line up, I

49:32

guess would want to want to

49:34

want to know. I'm just not

49:36

seeing how going into Omar's house,

49:38

tying him up, tying him up,

49:40

tying him up, tying Pearl up,

49:42

not killing them, going over and

49:44

killing J.C. and then fleeing the

49:46

area would be the best way

49:48

to carry out this crime. My

49:50

point being, even if they were

49:52

close together, Stephanie, not close enough

49:55

where you'd have to take them

49:57

both out. You could go into

49:59

J.C.'s, but man. I'm still you

50:01

know with you know, a little

50:03

ways through here, almost an hour

50:05

in, I still think that if

50:07

anything this was a coordinated attack,

50:09

there were targets in both houses.

50:11

Why, Omar wasn't killed? Maybe because

50:13

he escaped before they did. So,

50:15

that's the only explanation I can

50:17

come to. Or, Omar, Pearl, and

50:19

Kim are not being truthful. That's

50:21

where I'm at right now. Well,

50:23

let's see what the relationship between

50:25

J.C. and Dine was like. Yeah,

50:27

and maybe was, was Duane involved

50:30

with their tensions between Duane? Let's

50:32

see that. Yes. Would Duane have

50:34

enough reason to do this? So

50:36

during their interview it was clear

50:38

that Alyssa and Barbara who are

50:40

Jayce's daughter and ex-partner, right? Because

50:42

Barbara's, Alyssa's mother, they didn't like

50:44

Dene. They said J.C. had repeatedly

50:46

called Children's Services to report that

50:48

his son Shane was in danger.

50:50

He told CPS that Dene had

50:52

been using drugs throughout her pregnancy

50:54

and even after Shane was born.

50:56

And Barbara told the police that

50:58

J.C. had made at least five

51:00

or six reports. Alyssa and Barbara

51:03

also said the tensions between J.C.

51:05

and Dwayne, whose Dine's boyfriend, they'd

51:07

been escalating for a while. They

51:09

got into verbal altercations and on

51:11

several occasions they almost got into

51:13

physical fights. But there was something

51:15

they didn't mention, maybe because they

51:17

didn't know, because J.C. was a

51:19

confidential informant, the police were already

51:21

aware that J.C. had been involved

51:23

in getting an indictment against Dwayne.

51:25

So... The issues between Jayce and

51:27

Dwayne may have gone much deeper

51:29

than just custody and relationship problems.

51:31

Investigators then asked if Jayce owed

51:33

money to anyone and Barbara said

51:35

no, but he was, you know,

51:38

he wasn't doing well financially, right?

51:40

He had tenants who weren't paying

51:42

rent. A lot of people owed

51:44

him money. He's not rolling in

51:46

the dough here. Now at this

51:48

point, things were not looking great

51:50

for Dwayne and Dene. Jayce was

51:52

murdered just one day before. his

51:54

custody hearing with Danine. They had

51:56

a clear motive to want him

51:58

dead, but there was still the

52:00

issue of what happened at Omar's

52:02

house. So the police separated Pearl,

52:04

Kim, and Omar and asked each

52:06

of them to explain separately what

52:08

happened, which is good police work.

52:11

Yes. Good police work, and it

52:13

does give you a little bit

52:15

of insight because if it's clear

52:17

that they're telling the truth, you

52:19

still should separate them, but I

52:21

can tell you from experience, it

52:23

doesn't always happen. Like if it's

52:25

clear. that there's nothing that needs

52:27

to be questioned there. Police can

52:29

sometimes forget to separate them when

52:31

asking questions because it's such a

52:33

traumatic situation. The fact that they

52:35

did tells me one of two

52:37

things. Either these are just very

52:39

thorough police officers and they're doing

52:41

everything by the book, which unfortunately

52:43

doesn't always happen, or based on

52:46

what they observed initially, they felt

52:48

the need to question them separately.

52:50

Yeah, kind of like what you're

52:52

saying, which is not. Something's not

52:54

adding up here. Yeah, it's not

52:56

a coincidence that these two houses

52:58

that hold people who are related

53:00

to each other that they just

53:02

get hit Simultaneously Yep, without it

53:04

not being connected somehow. Yep, and

53:06

they take out JC without even

53:08

sharing a word, but they let

53:10

you three live Yeah, and they

53:12

let Omar get away something and

53:14

how and how did he get

53:16

away? At gun point. They're tied

53:18

up. There's a lot of questions

53:21

as a detective I would have

53:23

here something's not passing the smell

53:25

test So we're going to go

53:27

through these three separate stories, see

53:29

how well they match up, but

53:31

first we're going to take a

53:33

quick break. We'll be right back.

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Weekly. We're

55:02

back. So we are going to talk

55:04

about what Pearl said. So Pearl's Omar's

55:06

mother. Now Pearl told the police that

55:08

she was asleep when she heard a

55:10

thumb. Moments later, Omar, her son, shook

55:12

her awake and that's when she saw

55:15

a black man standing over Omar with

55:17

a shotgun pointed at his face. She

55:19

said the shotgun was black. and didn't

55:21

look normal. It was unlike any she

55:23

had seen before. Pearl said the man

55:25

was wearing a gray sweatshirt with the

55:28

hood pulled up over his head and

55:30

he looked to be in his 20s.

55:32

He ordered her to get out of

55:34

bed and he demanded money. She told

55:36

him there was money in her purse,

55:38

but he responded, that's not enough. Now,

55:40

it's important to note that in a

55:43

follow-up interview, Pearl told police there was

55:45

actually two men by her bed when

55:47

Omar woke her up. So we've already

55:49

got a divergence of stories, and it's

55:51

still the same story coming from the

55:53

same person. Pearl tells the police one

55:56

thing. And then later on, she's adding

55:58

things to her story. And listen, we

56:00

have people and witnesses, especially witnesses in

56:02

a traumatic situation that they may mess

56:04

up a hair color, description of a

56:06

gun, clothing. They don't normally forget to

56:09

mention a second offender. I agree. I

56:11

agree. So that is a red flag

56:13

for me. I'll say that much. And

56:15

again, we're talking about a group of

56:17

people who had this premeditated plan, and

56:19

yet they forgot to wear masks. Yes,

56:21

we'll continue on. We'll say they have

56:24

hoodies. All right. They have hoodies They

56:26

got hoodies up just not covering they're

56:28

covering their ears, but not their faces

56:30

their faces are in shadows Yes, hooded

56:32

shadows. Okay, now we got two men

56:34

standing by her bed when her son

56:37

wakes her up one of them put

56:39

a gun to her head and asked

56:41

if she had a safe She admitted

56:43

that she did and she told them

56:45

where to find it but when they

56:47

checked inside there was no money. but

56:50

the men didn't touch it. Now tell

56:52

me what kind of men are going

56:54

to be here. Like we got the

56:56

money or your purse is not enough.

56:58

You have a safe? She's like, yes,

57:00

here, open it. They open it. There's

57:03

no money. And they're just going to

57:05

be like, well, guess you don't have

57:07

money. They're not going to keep pushing.

57:09

And be like, where's the money that

57:11

was in the safe lady? There's a

57:13

reason she has a safe in there

57:15

which is not abnormal a lot of

57:18

people have safes I will say that

57:20

to keep $2,000 I just got back

57:22

from a cruise yesterday. We were just

57:24

talking about this I brought some money

57:26

on the cruise with me as anybody

57:28

would when they leave in the country

57:31

Yeah cash you get you also want

57:33

tips and so like that yeah when

57:35

I unpacked last night I took the

57:37

the money out of the suitcase and

57:39

put it back you know where I

57:41

was going to put it in my

57:44

safe or whatever I wouldn't normally leave

57:46

the money in a suitcase for the

57:48

recent vacation. How long ago was that

57:50

vacation? How long was that money sitting

57:52

in the safe? How long ago did

57:54

they go on that vacation? How long

57:56

was that $2,000 sitting in this briefcase?

57:59

Because she said it was from a

58:01

recent vacation, but wasn't really. So here's

58:03

the thing. I, as you know, have

58:05

ADHD, and I'm very prone to coming

58:07

home from a vacation, and my packed

58:09

suitcase will stay on my floor in

58:12

the bedroom for two months. Okay, that's

58:14

fair. However, however. First of all, I

58:16

never, I'm not going to put cash

58:18

in my suitcase. I'm not putting cash

58:20

in my suitcase because I'm either checking

58:22

that suitcase or I'm storing it in

58:25

like the overhead compartment. You know, it

58:27

just doesn't feel safe to have $2,000

58:29

of cash in your suitcase. I would

58:31

put that in my purse or in

58:33

my little like bag that I have

58:35

around me. That cash is always going

58:38

to be on my person, always. And

58:40

when I get home, I'm putting that

58:42

cash in that cash in the safe.

58:44

It's going to be one of the

58:46

first things I do because my ADHD

58:48

isn't that bad where I don't realize

58:50

$2,000 is a lot of money and

58:53

I'm not even thinking about someone stealing

58:55

it. So it's going right in the

58:57

safe. Yeah, and listen, let's just call

58:59

it what it is. $2,000 absolutely is

59:01

a lot of money. It is. And

59:03

from what we can tell, Pearl wasn't,

59:06

you know, a millionaire. This $2,000 would

59:08

be a significant amount of cash. And

59:10

the fact that it was just flippantly

59:12

put in this briefcase. or suitcase if

59:14

she described it nearby is a little

59:16

sketchy. Now I don't want to sit

59:19

here. Unless the money is from something

59:21

that's not. She's hiding for a reason.

59:23

Maybe a cash business. Yeah, she's hiding

59:25

for a reason. And I know what

59:27

we're doing here, I can see it.

59:29

We're already going down that path where

59:32

we have this extreme skepticism about Pearl

59:34

Omar and Kim, right? You guys can

59:36

feel it, you can see it. We

59:38

don't know if they're telling the truth

59:40

yet. We're only reacting to what we're

59:42

hearing to what we're hearing to what

59:44

we're hearing. So maybe that will change.

59:47

I am quite skeptical, I will say.

59:49

Okay, well, you have more info about

59:51

this, so that's concerning for me. But

59:53

as I'm sitting here right now, just

59:55

kind of digesting what you guys are

59:57

hearing as well, I'm apprehensive to completely

1:00:00

buy. law enforcement. And to be honest

1:00:02

it's not even about having more information

1:00:04

it's just one of the like I

1:00:06

don't believe in in coincidences in general

1:00:08

I don't. This is one of those

1:00:11

coincidences that's just like come on guys

1:00:13

what's going on here like we're we're

1:00:15

we're missing something we're not getting all

1:00:17

the pieces of the puzzle here and

1:00:20

so that that that's why it seems

1:00:22

so so suspicious because there's definitely things

1:00:24

that are being left out right the

1:00:26

the one gunman to two gunman is

1:00:28

very concerning yes because the second gunman

1:00:31

had the gun in her face so

1:00:33

that that's concerning exactly right

1:00:35

because the first gunman has his

1:00:37

gun to Omar this weird looking

1:00:39

shotgun she's never seen before probably a

1:00:41

sawed off shotgun if we're to believe it

1:00:44

or maybe a silencer or something I don't

1:00:46

know something even if it was a shotgun

1:00:48

but now you've got this second gun man

1:00:50

and in pearls second retelling of the story

1:00:52

that gun is being held to her face

1:00:54

right how would you forget that that's

1:00:56

something you would remember I would think so

1:00:58

the men because there's two of them

1:01:01

now they forced pearl into the living

1:01:03

room and they kicked her to the

1:01:05

floor where Kim was already lying face

1:01:07

down with a pointed at her. Now,

1:01:09

I don't know who's got the gun

1:01:11

pointed at Kim, right? Because we've got

1:01:14

Pearl in her bed. Omar's

1:01:16

in the room with Pearl.

1:01:18

There's two men. One's got

1:01:20

the gun on Pearl. One's got

1:01:22

the gun on Pearl. One's got

1:01:24

the gun on Omar. Who's

1:01:26

with Kim in the living

1:01:28

room? Well, they said there was three

1:01:31

gunmen. Oh, a gun on Omar. There's

1:01:33

enough people. to cover them all, which

1:01:35

is once again, I'm going to wonder

1:01:37

how to don't mark it away. But

1:01:39

so Pearl remembered that one of the

1:01:42

guns was a silver handgun and she

1:01:44

noted that the men appeared to be

1:01:46

wearing cotton gloves. Kim and Pearl's hands

1:01:48

were then tied behind their backs with

1:01:50

phone cords and they were repeatedly kicked

1:01:52

and called names. One of the men

1:01:55

said burn them and then sheets were

1:01:57

thrown over their bodies while rubbing alcohol

1:01:59

was on them. Then, Pearl says

1:02:01

she heard someone messing with a lighter.

1:02:03

She wasn't sure if Omar, her son

1:02:06

had been tied up or not, but

1:02:08

she knew that he wasn't staying quiet.

1:02:10

Pearl told police that Omar hadn't taken

1:02:12

his medication and he was running off

1:02:15

his mouth and being smart, which made

1:02:17

both her and Kim fear that the

1:02:19

men were going to kill him. Now

1:02:21

what medicine is Omar taking for what

1:02:24

kind of condition that makes him not

1:02:26

run his mouth in a situation like

1:02:28

this? I don't know what it is,

1:02:30

but I want some of that fearless

1:02:33

medication. No, well, well, he's fearless without

1:02:35

the medication, right? But what is the

1:02:37

medication he takes, which makes him not

1:02:39

have this sort of impulsivity? Maybe is

1:02:42

an ADHD medication? I don't know. When

1:02:44

I'm on my ADHD medication, I feel

1:02:46

like I run my mouth even more,

1:02:48

but... I feel like if you had

1:02:51

a gun to the back of your

1:02:53

head, even if you hadn't taken it,

1:02:55

you'd probably realize I shouldn't be mouth

1:02:57

and off to these guys. However, we

1:03:00

do know that Pearl and Kim are

1:03:02

on the floor and then they have

1:03:04

sheets put over them and they can

1:03:06

only hear Omar. So maybe Pearl and

1:03:09

Kim aren't in on this, but Omar

1:03:11

is, which is why he wants them

1:03:13

hidden so he can run his mouth

1:03:15

and act like he's trying to stop

1:03:18

this. Potentially, that's something we haven't explored

1:03:20

yet, a potential setup where Omar is

1:03:22

in on this and Omar sets up

1:03:24

JCP. believe they're all involved. Yeah, and

1:03:27

to also maybe give him an alibi.

1:03:29

So he's like, well, how could I

1:03:31

be doing anything to J.C. or be

1:03:33

involved with what was happening to J.C.

1:03:36

when I was all tied up and

1:03:38

had guns to my head and my

1:03:40

mother and my girlfriend will tell you

1:03:42

the same thing. However, during a good

1:03:45

portion of this, Kim and Pearl, they're

1:03:47

under the sheets. So. Throughout the attack

1:03:49

the men kept demanding money and drugs

1:03:51

when Pearl asked who they were they

1:03:54

claimed they were the Midwest task force

1:03:56

Pearl said she heard three voices but

1:03:58

assumed there were four men in total

1:04:01

because they were communicating with someone on

1:04:03

a radio or a next telephone. To

1:04:05

her, their voices sounded frustrated and immature,

1:04:07

and one of the attackers was referred

1:04:10

to as tone, T-O-N-E. She also got

1:04:12

the sense that the men were following

1:04:14

a schedule as if they had planned

1:04:16

everything down to the minute. So Pearl

1:04:19

said the men eventually ordered Omar to

1:04:21

come with them and asked how many

1:04:23

people were next door. Shortly after, she

1:04:25

heard a gunshot. Then a moment later,

1:04:28

she heard Omar yell, you didn't get

1:04:30

me. Pearl told police she had no

1:04:32

idea why her house was targeted. They

1:04:34

didn't have a lot of money and

1:04:37

their neighborhood wasn't wealthy. None of it

1:04:39

made sense. Now in Kim's interview she

1:04:41

explained that the night before she and

1:04:43

Omar had been babysitting in St. Clair'sville

1:04:46

until 4am and when they got home

1:04:48

she laid down in the couch while

1:04:50

Omar sat on the floor. The two

1:04:52

of them stayed up watching Matlock on

1:04:55

TV while Kim's dog was curled up

1:04:57

next to her on the couch. Some

1:04:59

time before 5.30am the dog started barking

1:05:01

so Kim got up and put it

1:05:04

in the kitchen. She laid back down

1:05:06

but within moments she heard a loud

1:05:08

bang. She and Omar jumped up and

1:05:10

ran to the kitchen. back the curtain

1:05:13

to look out the front door and

1:05:15

that's when they saw shadows moving and

1:05:17

men with guns. Then Kim saw three

1:05:19

black men all dressed in black forcing

1:05:22

their way inside. The men stormed in,

1:05:24

ordered Kim to the ground, and they

1:05:26

tied her hands with a phone cord.

1:05:28

Then they dragged Pearl out of the

1:05:31

bedroom and tied her up next to

1:05:33

Kim. Sheets were placed over them so

1:05:35

they couldn't see anything, but Kim had

1:05:37

already gotten a good look at the

1:05:40

attacker's faces and she was actually able

1:05:42

to give the police detailed descriptions of

1:05:44

two of the men. At this point,

1:05:46

Pearl's story and Kim's story seems to

1:05:49

be lining up as far as what

1:05:51

Kim experienced. It definitely feels like it's

1:05:53

lining up now. That could be for

1:05:55

a few reasons. It could be because

1:05:58

they're describing what had happened and they're

1:06:00

just regurgitating what they were. or there

1:06:02

was some conversation beforehand, but that would

1:06:04

mean that Pearl and Kim are in

1:06:07

on it as well. The jury's out

1:06:09

for me. I don't know what to

1:06:11

believe here. It doesn't make a ton

1:06:13

of sense to me, but when we

1:06:16

break down more of what Pearl was

1:06:18

saying about some of the details, them

1:06:20

using the Nextel slash radio, that would

1:06:22

align with what you had said earlier

1:06:25

about this, you know, kind of collaborative

1:06:27

effort where they're doing it. Yeah, two

1:06:29

groups. you know, working together to carry

1:06:31

out this, these incidents simultaneously. But then

1:06:34

that again would mean that they knew

1:06:36

about J.C. next door, which means that

1:06:38

they also had a connection with Omar.

1:06:40

What are Omar and J.C. involved in?

1:06:43

Well, remember, Pearl said that the men

1:06:45

asked Omar how many people were next

1:06:47

door. So Pearl is either relating events

1:06:49

as they happened, as she remembered them

1:06:52

happening, which means that whatever happened at

1:06:54

Omar's was connected to what happened at

1:06:56

Jesse's, or they are, Omar, Kim, and

1:06:58

Pearl, are all trying to at least

1:07:01

give the impression that the same people

1:07:03

that attacked them were the people that

1:07:05

attacked and killed J.C. Yeah. Now I'm

1:07:07

gonna say something, and Madison, we'll be

1:07:10

listening to this, and this is about

1:07:12

me being candid and being honest, because...

1:07:14

I want the truth, that's what I

1:07:16

want. I want answers for JCP. I

1:07:19

will tell you that just from my

1:07:21

past, working in this field, when you

1:07:23

see home invasions like this, especially if

1:07:25

there's a coordinated attack on multiple houses,

1:07:28

I've said it before I believe on

1:07:30

Crime Weekly, but in the drug game,

1:07:32

a lot of times, especially if there's

1:07:35

friends or family connected and involved together,

1:07:37

one house would be the money house,

1:07:39

one house would be the money house.

1:07:41

They do that intentionally, not only for

1:07:44

law enforcement purposes, because if we go

1:07:46

into the drug house, we find all

1:07:48

the drugs, we can only seize what's

1:07:50

in that house. We can't take the

1:07:53

money from the other house unless we

1:07:55

can draw a direct line to it.

1:07:57

of an involved investigation. So usually they'll

1:07:59

separate the two. The fact that their

1:08:02

houses were invaded that morning and the

1:08:04

fact that if this is true that

1:08:06

they were asking how many people were

1:08:08

next door, it reminds me of crimes

1:08:11

that I investigated where whether it's true

1:08:13

or not, these individuals who came to

1:08:15

these two houses believed that there was

1:08:17

some type of activity going on between

1:08:20

the two homes. Whether that was drug

1:08:22

related or not, I don't know, but

1:08:24

I will say based on the fact

1:08:26

that they're looking for money, it's being

1:08:29

hidden in suitcases, JCP's past being involved

1:08:31

with drugs and narcotics, which I will

1:08:33

tell you I've had multiple CIs who

1:08:35

were working for me, it didn't mean

1:08:38

they weren't dealing on the side behind

1:08:40

my back. So there could be a

1:08:42

lot going on here, and this is

1:08:44

very similar to crimes that I've worked

1:08:47

in the past where the victims are

1:08:49

also involved in some type of illegal

1:08:51

activity in some type of illegal activity.

1:08:53

and this is a competing group that's

1:08:56

attacking them. I'm only putting it out

1:08:58

there because it's what I've experienced. It

1:09:00

doesn't mean that that's what's happening here.

1:09:02

And I think it's important to note

1:09:05

that obviously Madison finds all of this

1:09:07

suspicious as well, and she'll be the

1:09:09

first to admit, like, listen, my dad

1:09:11

used drugs. Not obviously he's an NAA,

1:09:14

so he used drugs, he sold drugs.

1:09:16

And, you know, he didn't do everything

1:09:18

above board all the time. But that

1:09:20

doesn't mean that we don't deserve to

1:09:23

know what happened to him. Of course.

1:09:25

What we do know is that he

1:09:27

didn't sit there and, you know, plan

1:09:29

his own death. Somebody else did that.

1:09:32

And she also says it's all very

1:09:34

suspicious. She believes that this whole Omar

1:09:36

thing is very suspicious too. Like, why?

1:09:38

wasn't he covered up with sheets? Why

1:09:41

wasn't he tied up? Why was he

1:09:43

able to get away? She says none

1:09:45

of it made sense. And then at

1:09:47

her dad's house, right? They're over there

1:09:50

at Omar's house asking about money and

1:09:52

trying to get into the safe. But

1:09:54

then at her dad's house, he's just

1:09:56

shot. No money was taken. It wasn't

1:09:59

ransacked. It didn't look like, you know,

1:10:01

he could have possibly had a safe

1:10:03

there too. That's what I'm saying. If

1:10:05

this is a collaborative effort where they're

1:10:08

going in there looking for the drugs

1:10:10

and money, why did they shoot JC

1:10:12

and not rob the place? They shot

1:10:14

him and left immediately. It's not adding

1:10:17

up to me. And also, we haven't

1:10:19

even talked about it yet. Nobody else

1:10:21

heard anything, nobody else heard gun pops,

1:10:23

nobody else saw these cars peeling off,

1:10:26

this van taking off, these guys running

1:10:28

out. I don't know if you're going

1:10:30

to get there eventually, but there just

1:10:32

seems like there would be other witnesses

1:10:35

that would have heard or saw something

1:10:37

to corroborate what Omar is saying, what

1:10:39

Pearl is saying, what Kim is saying.

1:10:41

Elissa on the other hand, who's in

1:10:44

the other house, doesn't see a single

1:10:46

person. Odd. Odd. I can understand why

1:10:48

Madison is so suspicious. Of course she

1:10:50

is. And I mean, at the end

1:10:53

of the day, you know, Madison, it

1:10:55

wasn't as if she was super close

1:10:57

with her father's side of the family.

1:10:59

She's, I believe she was living in

1:11:02

Charleston at the time. She was, I

1:11:04

think, she was living in Charleston at

1:11:06

the time. She was, I think, seven

1:11:09

years old, very young. She's not superly

1:11:11

involved with Jayce's side of the family.

1:11:13

And she's seeing certain things, like the

1:11:15

fact that when Omar called the police,

1:11:18

he didn't say that Jayce had been

1:11:20

shot, even though it appears that he

1:11:22

knew. And he also- He was taken

1:11:24

out of the house. I think it's

1:11:27

important. We didn't talk about that too

1:11:29

much, but you're right. He was taken

1:11:31

out of the house. And he also

1:11:33

doesn't say, hey, that's my uncle, right?

1:11:36

He says my neighbor. He's he's sort

1:11:38

of trying to create distance and remember

1:11:40

Pearl did say she heard a gunshot

1:11:42

But then she heard Omar yell you

1:11:45

didn't get me which would which which

1:11:47

would suggest that they had tried to

1:11:49

shoot Omar as well But I don't

1:11:51

think that that happened. So is what

1:11:54

she heard, the gunshot coming from JCP's

1:11:56

house, and Omar is sort of acting

1:11:58

as if it was towards him, so

1:12:00

she won't think like, oh, somebody's over

1:12:03

there shooting my brother, or I hear

1:12:05

gunshots coming from a different house. She's

1:12:07

going to think that they're trying to

1:12:09

attack Omar, which is going to even

1:12:12

solidify the fact that Omar has nothing

1:12:14

to do with this, if they're shooting

1:12:16

at him. Yeah. You know, as I

1:12:18

sit here here right now. There's probably

1:12:21

a little truth to what's being said

1:12:23

here. I think you mentioned earlier that

1:12:25

there were some visible injuries to Kim,

1:12:27

specifically she had a nail. To Kim

1:12:30

and Pearl, yes. But Kim had a

1:12:32

nail through her foot, right? Kim did,

1:12:34

yes. Yeah, had a nail through her

1:12:36

foot. Yeah, had a nail through her

1:12:39

foot, right? Kim did, yes. Yeah, had

1:12:41

a nail through her foot herself or

1:12:43

allowed Omar to do it. So there

1:12:45

might be some players involved here. Or

1:12:48

Pearl and Omar could be in on

1:12:50

it, but they don't trust Kim enough

1:12:52

yet. Like we don't know how long

1:12:54

if Kim and Omar have been together.

1:12:57

What kind of relationship do they have?

1:12:59

How deep does it run? But also

1:13:01

it could be just as simple as

1:13:03

they're going after JC, Omar is in

1:13:06

on it and he's helping set it

1:13:08

up. Yeah, which is kind of where

1:13:10

I'm I'm tending to lean personally. Right

1:13:12

now it could be just as simple

1:13:15

as, hey man, come over here, I

1:13:17

don't want my mom, knowing that I

1:13:19

helped kill her brother. Of course. Or

1:13:21

I don't want my girlfriend to know

1:13:24

because then she could turn on me

1:13:26

because we maybe we've only been together

1:13:28

eight months. Interesting. Madison, I get it.

1:13:30

I get it. So like I said,

1:13:33

Kim actually got a good look at

1:13:35

these men and she's able to give

1:13:37

the cops a description of them, which

1:13:39

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1:15:09

right, so the descriptions of these attackers

1:15:11

that Kim gave the police the first

1:15:13

guy he was between 5 10 and

1:15:16

6 feet tall He was very thin

1:15:18

had dark skin and spoke with a

1:15:20

heavy deep voice The hood of his

1:15:22

sweatshirt was pulled up, but Kim thought

1:15:25

he might have had dreadlocks She said

1:15:27

he had a wide nose and pursed

1:15:29

lips the second attacker was between five

1:15:31

nine and five 11. This was the

1:15:33

man who was called tone T-O-N-T-O-N-N-E He

1:15:36

had a lighter voice and was clearly

1:15:38

the one in charge. One of the

1:15:40

men was wearing red Nike shoes with

1:15:42

black socks. Kim said the men asked

1:15:45

who she was and she told them

1:15:47

her name that it was Kim and

1:15:49

that she didn't live there. They asked

1:15:51

where she did live and she said

1:15:54

Bel Air. Kim said the men didn't

1:15:56

seem to know anyone in the house.

1:15:58

because they kept asking what their names

1:16:00

were. She also didn't think they were

1:16:03

from the area because they used a

1:16:05

slang that was different from what she

1:16:07

was used to hearing. Throughout the attack,

1:16:09

the men kept yelling, where's the money?

1:16:11

We came all this way. Do you

1:16:14

know we are the Westside task force?

1:16:16

They threatened to cut off fingers and

1:16:18

toes before dousing them and alcohol. At

1:16:20

one point, Kim heard one of the

1:16:23

men speak into a radio saying, we

1:16:25

ain't got no money yet. And this

1:16:27

made her think that there was. someone

1:16:29

outside acting as a lookout. She also heard

1:16:31

another man say twice were taking too long

1:16:34

in here. And this is kind of what

1:16:36

Pearl said too is it seemed like they were

1:16:38

there for a reason and that they were

1:16:40

on a time schedule and they had things

1:16:42

planned out minute by minute. Yeah, why would

1:16:44

they pick this house Stephanie? And also

1:16:46

we haven't really mentioned it, but

1:16:48

if you're going to go into a house

1:16:51

like this, you're going to carry it a

1:16:53

home invasion. Are you going to do it at

1:16:55

7 o'clock in the morning when everyone's getting up?

1:16:57

Getting ready to go ready to get ready for

1:16:59

work? Probably the worst time to do it. Yeah, why didn't

1:17:01

they do it when it was still dark out? One,

1:17:03

two o'clock in the morning under the cover of night.

1:17:06

I'm sure it was still a little dark out at

1:17:08

that time and 640, 644. But still, like, just

1:17:10

a horrible time to do it. And to pick this

1:17:12

house, let's just say we believe what they're saying

1:17:14

they came from a far distance. They came from

1:17:16

a far distance. They came from a far distance.

1:17:18

They came from a far distance. Why would you

1:17:20

come all this way? How did you know there was

1:17:22

going to be money inside? Why Omar's house, yeah.

1:17:24

It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't

1:17:26

make any sense. Unless they knew where

1:17:28

they had information that led them to believe

1:17:31

there was a large amount of money inside. And

1:17:33

what is this West Side task force? That

1:17:35

would be my next question for

1:17:37

law enforcement. Does the Westside Task

1:17:40

Force actually exist? Is this a

1:17:42

competing gang from a community nearby?

1:17:44

Have you ever heard of a gang

1:17:46

named the task force? It sounds more

1:17:48

law enforcement, right? Yeah, I guess I've heard

1:17:51

some stupid names. Just on that. I've heard

1:17:53

some dumb names where I've gone. I go,

1:17:55

really guys, that's the best you came up

1:17:57

with. Well, there's a Westside Task Force.

1:18:00

which is a drug task force in

1:18:02

Chicago. And I guess that would mean

1:18:04

they were from a different place, but

1:18:06

were they trying to make these people

1:18:08

think they were law enforcement and kind

1:18:10

of doing like a sting operation? Like

1:18:12

what was the point here? What is

1:18:14

the Westside task force? Your guess is

1:18:16

as good as mine. So Kim said

1:18:18

that at one point she could hear

1:18:21

the men beating Omar and eventually taking

1:18:23

him outside. She worked to free herself

1:18:25

from the phone court around her wrists.

1:18:27

and then that's when she heard a

1:18:29

gunshot. Now I'm gonna stop here and

1:18:31

I'm gonna say something else. If these

1:18:33

men are so well, they're like a

1:18:35

well-oiled machine, right? They're on a time

1:18:37

schedule, they got walkies, or they're talking,

1:18:40

communicating with somebody else with Nextel, they

1:18:42

know what they're doing, they know what

1:18:44

they're doing, they know what they're there

1:18:46

for, they're like, we came all this

1:18:48

way for money, it's stretchy. It is

1:18:50

a stretchy thing. It's stretchy. It's stretchy,

1:18:52

man. So you're just gonna go in

1:18:54

and be like, oh, let me find

1:18:56

the stretchiest gumby-esque thing I can to

1:18:59

tie these people. I'm gonna use the

1:19:01

phone cord. Why wouldn't you have come

1:19:03

if you knew what you were going

1:19:05

there to do with your own restraints?

1:19:07

Like zip ties, which is impossible to

1:19:09

get out of. Well, like you said,

1:19:11

if we're to believe what they're saying,

1:19:13

Like they didn't expect them to be

1:19:15

there. So in my opinion, them continually

1:19:18

repeating like, oh, what's your names? What's

1:19:20

your names? Who are you? That's just

1:19:22

further trying to prove that like, we

1:19:24

don't know, Omar, we've never been here

1:19:26

before. But you know enough to know

1:19:28

there's money there. You came all this

1:19:30

way, right? All this way. It's not

1:19:32

like you're just living in the neighborhood

1:19:34

and you're like, hey, we're driving by,

1:19:36

let's hit up. Omar and at least

1:19:39

his mother Pearl in the house, you

1:19:41

might not have expected Kim. but you'd

1:19:43

still come with restraints enough for two

1:19:45

people. I can tell you another thing

1:19:47

that I wouldn't do is if I'm

1:19:49

going to this house for money and

1:19:51

I'm trying to beat the answers out

1:19:53

of Omar and I'm also trying to

1:19:55

do without being detected. The last thing

1:19:58

I'm gonna do is take him out

1:20:00

of the house and bring him outside

1:20:02

where one he can escape or two

1:20:04

people can see what's going on and

1:20:06

intervene or call the police. Yeah. That

1:20:08

doesn't that doesn't add up to me

1:20:10

either. Especially if he's allegedly being beat

1:20:12

because he's gonna be bloody. It's gonna

1:20:14

look weird unless they're taking him next

1:20:17

door Thinking it will lower jac's guard.

1:20:19

I don't know it just it doesn't

1:20:21

or they're taking him next door telling

1:20:23

him hey you knock on the door

1:20:25

You call out for him, but why

1:20:27

would that matter because they ended up

1:20:29

kicking the door down anyways? Maybe J.C.

1:20:31

looks through the people, if there's a

1:20:33

people, I don't even know if there

1:20:36

is, that's something we'd have to find

1:20:38

out for Madison. But he wasn't by

1:20:40

the bedroom, and he wasn't, his back

1:20:42

wasn't to the door, like he was

1:20:44

running away, he was facing it. So

1:20:46

he heard somebody trying to get in,

1:20:48

he got out of bed, walked towards

1:20:50

the door. By the time he got

1:20:52

to that area, they had kicked the

1:20:54

door open, boom, boom, one shot, one

1:20:57

shot, they're gone. They're gone. They're gone.

1:20:59

What do they need what do they

1:21:01

need, what do they need, what do

1:21:03

they need, what do they need, what

1:21:05

do they need, So Kim works herself

1:21:07

free from the phone cord, and that's

1:21:09

when she heard a gunshot. And about

1:21:11

five minutes later, she did manage to

1:21:13

break free completely. She immediately jumped up

1:21:16

and hit the panic button in the

1:21:18

kitchen. Here's another thing. Why you got

1:21:20

a panic button in your kitchen? Yeah.

1:21:22

Right? It kind of seems like J.C.

1:21:24

had some serious security at his house

1:21:26

to the point where they couldn't even

1:21:28

arm it. when people are home because

1:21:30

if you walked into the living room

1:21:32

it would go off. We had a

1:21:35

simply safe ad in this episode and

1:21:37

I have I have similar things. There's

1:21:39

motion detectors in my house in specific

1:21:41

rooms where I cannot have those armed

1:21:43

while I'm home because I might walk

1:21:45

in or the kids might go down

1:21:47

to get a drink of water or

1:21:49

the dogs might run through and that

1:21:51

alarm would be going off all the

1:21:53

time. I also have two panic buttons,

1:21:56

one upstairs. one downstairs. Now that's because

1:21:58

you know of what I do and

1:22:00

I'm very afraid of crime and I'm

1:22:02

afraid of becoming a victim and I'm

1:22:04

a public figure and I want to

1:22:06

protect myself and my family but why

1:22:08

did J.C. and Pearl have such crazy

1:22:10

kind of security where she, Pearl set

1:22:12

herself, we don't live in a wealthy

1:22:15

neighborhood, we don't have money. I don't

1:22:17

have a lot of money, exactly. So

1:22:19

why do you have a panic button

1:22:21

in your kitchen? Yeah, it's not adding

1:22:23

up. It's not adding up and I

1:22:25

don't want to say this as if

1:22:27

I know it to be true, but

1:22:29

there does appear to be something more

1:22:31

going on that we're unaware of. And

1:22:34

it may have been something that was

1:22:36

known by people in the community that

1:22:38

maybe there was some type of business

1:22:40

dealing going on between Omar or Pearl's

1:22:42

house and Jayce's house, and that would

1:22:44

explain the need for security. Listen, we're

1:22:46

not sitting here condemning people for wanting

1:22:48

to be protected or being secure, and

1:22:50

your life is enough to have those

1:22:53

devices. But it does seem like a

1:22:55

little bit of overkill to have all

1:22:57

of that. I don't have a panic

1:22:59

alarm in my house. You know, I

1:23:01

have like a, you know, a digital

1:23:03

keypad or whatever, but so it just

1:23:05

seems like a lot. So here's my

1:23:07

thing. It's also going to seem like

1:23:09

a lot because we're in 2025. So

1:23:11

these kinds of things are more common.

1:23:14

And it would be quite expensive to

1:23:16

have something like that. They didn't have

1:23:18

simply safe. You would have to have

1:23:20

like this serious security company come in

1:23:22

and install these things. I agree. Yeah,

1:23:24

that's a great point that you bring

1:23:26

up because these are things we have

1:23:28

to consider at the time when it

1:23:30

occurred. And you're absolutely right. The simple,

1:23:33

hey, we'll deliver your cameras in your

1:23:35

alarm to your house and you can

1:23:37

install it in 30 minutes. That wasn't

1:23:39

a thing back then. You had to

1:23:41

have, like you said, an alarm company

1:23:43

come out and install it and to

1:23:45

do all that. Usually it's to protect

1:23:47

something. financially like reasonable. No, it's expensive.

1:23:49

So to do all that, you would

1:23:52

have to probably have something you want

1:23:54

to be protected. So it does raise

1:23:56

a lot of questions for me. Now

1:23:58

it could be for JC, he could

1:24:00

be like, well I might have people

1:24:02

after me because of what I did.

1:24:04

So I understand that for him, but

1:24:06

for Omar and Pearl, panic button in

1:24:08

the kitchen? Why? Yeah, it's a lot.

1:24:11

It seems like a lot. It seems

1:24:13

like a lot. Maybe because you got

1:24:15

$2,000 in a... suitcase somewhere and how

1:24:17

many suitcases do you have in your

1:24:19

house with with cash than in them

1:24:21

right? I can tell you that I've

1:24:23

I've seized a lot of money out

1:24:25

of suitcases and it wasn't and it

1:24:27

wasn't because they just got back from

1:24:29

vacation. No, it's where they keep it.

1:24:32

It's to hide it, right? So, right.

1:24:34

So Kim gets loose, hits the panic

1:24:36

button. On her way back to the

1:24:38

living room, she stepped on a loose

1:24:40

board that the intruders had knocked free

1:24:42

when breaking in, and that's when she

1:24:44

ended up stepping on a nail. So

1:24:46

Kim did not have a nail pushed

1:24:48

into her foot by these intruders. She

1:24:51

stepped on it accidentally. I got it.

1:24:53

But still in her foot. I mean,

1:24:55

listen, it is still in her foot,

1:24:57

yes. It does sound like there is

1:24:59

some truth in a reality to what

1:25:01

Kim and Pearl experienced. I'm not as

1:25:03

sure about Omar at this point. Now

1:25:05

I know I did say earlier, Pearl

1:25:07

switching up later and saying there were

1:25:10

two gunmen in the room. I say

1:25:12

it all the time to you. It's

1:25:14

not likely that you would forget that

1:25:16

second gunman. However, everybody responds to trauma

1:25:18

differently. Could she be an outlier where

1:25:20

she just got confused and didn't mention

1:25:22

it? I don't know. Again, I've never

1:25:24

seen that happen where a victim has

1:25:26

later come back and told me, yeah,

1:25:29

there was actually two people in our

1:25:31

bedroom with a gun, not just one,

1:25:33

but maybe she's a first. So I

1:25:35

believe Kim. I'm on the fence about

1:25:37

Pearl because of that switching. Troubely and

1:25:39

I also feel like this is pearls

1:25:41

house Omar lives there if Omar is

1:25:43

doing something illegal out of there like

1:25:45

let's say JC's house was where the

1:25:47

drugs were kept and Omar and pearls

1:25:50

house was like a money was kept

1:25:52

right it would explain this would explain

1:25:54

$2,000 in a suitcase. And they would

1:25:56

also, I don't think that Omar could

1:25:58

be doing things out of there like

1:26:00

that without Pearl knowing. Yeah, I have

1:26:02

to agree with you. And I will

1:26:04

say this, I've talked to Madison a

1:26:06

little bit about this case, the general

1:26:09

overview, like I said, but these specifics,

1:26:11

I wasn't aware of, and I haven't

1:26:13

discussed them with her, which I guess

1:26:15

is a good thing. She wants to

1:26:17

hear her honest opinion. I do have

1:26:19

a lot of questions. I do have

1:26:21

a lot of questions as to why

1:26:23

this house was targeted over two houses

1:26:25

down. There's a reason for that. Yeah,

1:26:28

well, I think that we know the

1:26:30

reason. I think it's leaning that way.

1:26:32

Yeah, so okay, Kim gets up, hits

1:26:34

panic button, that's gonna call law enforcement.

1:26:36

She runs back to the living room,

1:26:38

steps on the nail. Then she saw

1:26:40

a dark figure running up the driveway.

1:26:42

She got scared. She panicked, she ducked

1:26:44

back under the alcohol soaked sheet, but

1:26:47

moments later, Kim realized the figure wasn't

1:26:49

one of the intruders. It was a

1:26:51

sheriff's deputy. Now, unfortunately, you are going

1:26:53

to have to wait until next time

1:26:55

to hear about Omar she said. Now

1:26:57

we're going to talk about Omar, but

1:26:59

spoiler alert, there's a lot of holes

1:27:01

in his story, surprise, surprise. And he

1:27:03

would go on to change that story

1:27:05

time and time again, which I believe

1:27:08

is one of the reasons that Madison

1:27:10

is so like, I'm kind of like,

1:27:12

I'm kind of suspicious, this doesn't add

1:27:14

up, this doesn't make sense. So as

1:27:16

we kind of wrap up this episode,

1:27:18

I want to give two scenarios, and

1:27:20

now that'll be my final words. So

1:27:22

we talked a little bit about the

1:27:24

idea that. maybe potentially Omar, J.C. and

1:27:27

Pearl, are involved in some type of

1:27:29

illegal activity. That would explain, you know,

1:27:31

the potential to have drugs in one

1:27:33

house, even though from what we know

1:27:35

there were no drugs found in J.C.'s

1:27:37

home, I think it's important to mention

1:27:39

that. But that could be why the

1:27:41

drugs would potentially be in J.C.'s house,

1:27:43

the money in Pearl's house, they both

1:27:46

have strong alarm systems, and that would...

1:27:48

explain why these guys, this group of

1:27:50

people would show up and rob these

1:27:52

two specific houses looking for specific items

1:27:54

money being one of them. There is

1:27:56

another world and we kind of hit

1:27:58

on it a little bit where this

1:28:00

is all ruse. As you mentioned at

1:28:02

the top of the show, J.C. definitely

1:28:05

had some enemies, including his own nephew,

1:28:07

RICO. I'm sure they were not happy

1:28:09

with him. There's a lot of people

1:28:11

who could have been pissed off at

1:28:13

J. And there may have even been

1:28:15

some people from that community where he

1:28:17

was now a CI who have also

1:28:19

figured out what he was doing and

1:28:21

wanted to take him out before he

1:28:23

took them out in a court of

1:28:26

law. There's a world where they got

1:28:28

to Omar and said you're either with

1:28:30

us or against us, but if you're

1:28:32

against us, you're going to end up

1:28:34

like him. And Omar, due to self-preservation,

1:28:36

said, yep, I'll tell you when to

1:28:38

do it, how to do it, all

1:28:40

I ask is that you do something

1:28:42

here too, because if you do something

1:28:45

here too, because if you don't, because

1:28:47

if you don't, it's going to come

1:28:49

back on back on me. And there's

1:28:51

a world that these guys went in

1:28:53

there, and they were not offenders, but

1:28:55

they were co-conspirators of Omar. And Omar's

1:28:57

the one who set JCP and maybe

1:28:59

Pearl knew about it, or maybe she

1:29:01

didn't. But that's where I'm leaning right

1:29:04

now. There is a world where JCP

1:29:06

and Omar and all them were not

1:29:08

involved in drugs, but because of what

1:29:10

JCP was involved in, in his prior

1:29:12

life, and also now, there was a

1:29:14

group of people who wanted him dead,

1:29:16

and Omar helped facilitate facilitate facilitate that.

1:29:18

I think that's all and I mean

1:29:20

we could have you know Danine and

1:29:23

her boyfriend Butchy that's also a possibility

1:29:25

it just seems like a stretch for

1:29:27

them though to be honest and a

1:29:29

day before the court hearing well it

1:29:31

could have been intentional if it wasn't

1:29:33

Danine and Butchy it could have been

1:29:35

intentional on behalf of whoever it was

1:29:37

to make it kind of look like

1:29:39

them to muddy the waters yeah great

1:29:41

point anything that that you think that

1:29:44

I'm missing from this I mean that's

1:29:46

where I'm at right now on the

1:29:48

scenarios right now on the scenarios I'm

1:29:50

the motive behind this is troubling this

1:29:52

is troubling to me because If you're

1:29:54

having two sets of people, it could

1:29:56

explain why one person had a, you

1:29:58

know, an itchy trigger finger, which and

1:30:00

shot JCP right away and the others

1:30:03

were more methodical about... it or it

1:30:05

could mean that the three people Kim

1:30:07

Omar and Pearl were never the intended

1:30:09

targets. They were just basically a distraction

1:30:11

for law enforcement to say hey you

1:30:13

got two crimes going on here this

1:30:15

is all connected this is a big

1:30:17

this is a big undertaking that you

1:30:19

have to figure out when in reality

1:30:22

all of the first part was just

1:30:24

smoking mirrors and the nail in the

1:30:26

foot just happened to be icing on

1:30:28

the cake for something that wasn't even

1:30:30

true. And the real target of this

1:30:32

whole thing was J.C. and that's why

1:30:34

he was killed so quickly. Now, tell

1:30:36

me something before we finish for today,

1:30:38

because the police are going to come

1:30:41

to the conclusion that J.C.'s murder is

1:30:43

a home invasion gone wrong. I don't

1:30:45

possibly see how you could look at

1:30:47

what happened here and not understand and

1:30:49

know, based on his past, based on

1:30:51

who he was, his C.I. status, based

1:30:53

on the whole weird Omar. that this

1:30:55

didn't go deeper, that there wasn't more

1:30:57

to this? Well, law enforcement wouldn't want

1:30:59

that to be the case, because that's

1:31:02

a lot for them. You are responsible

1:31:04

for your CI's well-being, to a certain

1:31:06

degree, and you have to do your

1:31:08

best to make sure they're protected, specifically

1:31:10

their identity. And so, when law enforcement's

1:31:12

looking into this, I don't know how

1:31:14

they get to the conclusion that this

1:31:16

was a home invasion gone wrong, when

1:31:18

it doesn't appear that the offenders ever

1:31:21

entered the house. They kicked open the

1:31:23

door. Right, exactly. They had to expect

1:31:25

that someone was going to be inside.

1:31:27

So seeing J.C. there was probably not

1:31:29

the biggest surprise of them. They kicked

1:31:31

the freaking door and what did they

1:31:33

think was going to happen? So killing

1:31:35

him maybe wasn't part of the plan,

1:31:37

but it doesn't appear that J.C. had

1:31:40

a gun in his hand where they

1:31:42

would be like, oh shit, we got

1:31:44

to kill him. So they just shot

1:31:46

him. He's in his boxers and they

1:31:48

were there to do. Is law enforcement

1:31:50

blinded by the home invasion that happened

1:31:52

next door and they're basically putting them

1:31:54

together? Maybe? Or do they know that

1:31:56

he was... targeted because of his CI

1:31:59

duties and obviously they're not going to

1:32:01

be like yeah he got killed because

1:32:03

he was our CI so okay are

1:32:05

we good to close this now you

1:32:07

know they're not going to want it

1:32:09

it's embarrassing it's bad as an narcotics

1:32:11

division that's terrible and it's bad for

1:32:13

business why because guess what all the

1:32:15

other CIs out there that we're trying

1:32:17

to flip they're going to remember that

1:32:20

hey you got JC killed They're not

1:32:22

going to want to work with you.

1:32:24