0:01

By five An O 'Reilly Auto Parts is the

0:03

perfect gift for that hard to

0:05

buy for a person. Give the

0:07

gift of convenience from O 'Reilly

0:09

Auto Parts. of convenience from

0:11

O'Reilly Auto Parts. Oh,

0:13

O'Reilly! Auto parts! in

0:15

the Bay Resolve to earn your degree

0:18

in the New Year in the

0:20

Bay with WGU. With courses available

0:22

online 24-7 and monthly start dates,

0:24

WGU offers maximum flexibility so you

0:26

can focus on your future. Learn

0:28

more at WGU.EDU. Hello

0:43

everybody, welcome back to Crime

0:45

Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow and

0:47

I'm Derek Lovasser. So today we

0:50

are diving in to the fourth and final

0:52

part of the Ray Rivera series and I

0:54

think we should just die right in. What

0:56

do you think? We should. I just want

0:58

to say thank you. I think we're right

1:00

around the point now. We just hit

1:03

300,000 subscribers. We got to do something.

1:05

We'll get to something but I just

1:07

said it on Crime Weekly News. If

1:09

we're not just wait until we hit

1:11

it. Thank you to everybody who watches

1:13

the show on YouTube. We really appreciate

1:16

it. Stephanie obviously has an even bigger

1:18

channel, but we both understand it's not

1:20

easy to gain subscribers. You have many

1:23

options out there. You do not have

1:25

to subscribe to us. You do not

1:27

have to subscribe to us. You do

1:29

not have to turn our notifications. You

1:32

do not have to subscribe to us. You

1:34

do not have to turn our notifications.

1:36

You do not have to turn

1:38

on notifications. You do not watch. There's

1:40

no crime weekly. It's that simple.

1:43

There's just Derek and Stephanie

1:45

talking to themselves. Yep. Who wants

1:47

that? Nobody. All right. So let's

1:50

start today's episode by kind of

1:52

more deeply examining the cryptic letter

1:54

that Ray Rivera left taped to

1:56

his home a desktop computer before

1:59

his death. So we're going to

2:01

start with his assumption that the

2:03

quote unquote council has invited all

2:05

the players who gave their lives

2:07

to this pursuit, aka the game

2:10

that he keeps referencing. that they're

2:12

going to invite them back so

2:14

that they might rejoin Ray and

2:16

the others. And one of the

2:18

people listed was Tom Hickling, who

2:20

we talked briefly about in part

2:23

three. Now, Tom Hickling had died

2:25

six months prior to Ray's death

2:27

in a car accident while visiting

2:29

his daughter Holly in Zambia. Holly,

2:31

who was in Africa working as

2:33

a relief worker, was in the

2:35

car with him when they were

2:38

struck by an oncoming car. She

2:40

suffered from a broken leg. and

2:42

Holly remembered as she was being

2:44

taken away by the EMTs, her

2:46

father Tom was lucid and was

2:48

able to talk to her and

2:50

tell her that he was going

2:53

to be all right, but sadly

2:55

he died later at the hospital.

2:57

An article in the Pittsburgh Post

2:59

Gazette tells us a little bit

3:01

about Tom Hickling stating, quote, with

3:03

his ponytail and gift for spoofing

3:06

goofy elements of evangelical culture in

3:08

the 1980s and 1990s through his

3:10

family's radio station, a singing ministry,

3:12

a newspaper, and two television shows.

3:14

and quote, so Tom Hickling had

3:16

been working for Agora Inc. at

3:18

the time of his death, writing

3:21

for one of their newsletters called

3:23

The Daily Reckoning. And on December

3:25

28th, 2005, Bill Bonner posted an

3:27

article on the Daily Reckoning written

3:29

by someone named Addison Wigan, who

3:31

was a hire-up at Agora, and

3:33

she wrote, quote, we have lost

3:36

one of our daily reckoning founding

3:38

fathers, a dear reader, and a

3:40

dear friend. We have always had

3:42

a fondness for minstrels, misfits, and

3:44

lost causes. At one time, Tom

3:46

was probably all of these things."

3:49

End quote. So the Daily Reckoning

3:51

was an internet newsletter sent out

3:53

to subscribers twice a day forecasting

3:55

booms, busts, and bad endings. And

3:57

it is unclear how Tom Hickling,

3:59

an evangelical musician, ended up writing

4:01

for a financial newsletter. But Ray's

4:04

close friends and family reported that

4:06

Ray had always felt there was

4:08

some off about Tom's death. Ray

4:10

had told his mother that out

4:12

of all the people he worked

4:14

with from Agora, he liked Tom

4:17

Hickling the most because he seemed

4:19

like a real person. Along with

4:21

Tom Hickling, every other person Ray

4:23

listed was also deceased. Anne Rayburn

4:25

had been the sister of one

4:27

of Ray's co-workers, George Rayburn, who

4:29

later became the executive vice president

4:32

at the Oxford Club, and Anne

4:34

passed away on December 2nd, 2005.

4:36

Joan Telini, she was the wife

4:38

of Piero Telini, who was an

4:40

Italian screenwriter. Also, she passed away

4:42

on November 1st, 2001. Stanley Kubrick

4:44

was an influential American filmmaker known

4:47

for his meticulous craftsmanship, innovative cinematography

4:49

and thought-provoking story-provoking. And his films,

4:51

such as 2001, A Space Odyssey,

4:53

A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Full

4:55

Metal Jacket, and Eyes Wide Shut,

4:57

have left a lasting impact on

5:00

cinema and popular culture. Now, Kubrick

5:02

was known for his obsessive attention

5:04

to detail and his ability to

5:06

craft complex narratives that often explore

5:08

themes of power, control, human nature,

5:10

and hidden truths. And as we

5:12

briefly talked about last episode, Kubrick

5:15

died of a reported heart attack

5:17

in his sleep on March 6th.

5:19

1999, just days after delivering the

5:21

final cut of eyes-wide shut to

5:23

Warner Brothers. His death has fueled

5:25

conspiracy theories, particularly because of the

5:27

themes present in eyes-wide shut, which

5:30

details secret societies, elite gatherings, and

5:32

potential occult influences. Many believe that

5:34

Kubrick had inside knowledge of the

5:36

elite and their clandestine activities, which

5:38

he subtly included in his films.

5:40

Eyes-wide shut is often cited. as

5:43

an expose of powerful secret societies

5:45

and their depraved rituals, which might

5:47

have put the filmmaker in danger.

5:49

Since Kubrick died just four days

5:51

after screening Eyeswide shut to Warner

5:53

Brothers executives, some believe that the

5:55

final cut of his film contained

5:58

sensitive or revealing information about real

6:00

world. secret societies. And for those

6:02

of you who don't know, Stanley

6:04

Kubrick was known for being very

6:06

controlling with his films. He needed

6:08

to have his hands on everything.

6:11

He wasn't somebody who would hand

6:13

his film over to the studio

6:15

and be like, oh yeah, make

6:17

whatever final cuts you want, and

6:19

then just play it in movie

6:21

theaters. He needed to know if

6:23

something was being added out, something

6:26

was being changed. There are claims

6:28

that significant edits were made to

6:30

the film after Kubrick's death, possibly

6:32

to remove controversial. or incriminating content.

6:34

And after Kubrick's death, it was

6:36

widely reported that eyes wide shut

6:38

was altered before its theatrical release.

6:41

So some conspiracy theorists speculate that

6:43

his death was a convenient way

6:45

to ensure changes could be made

6:47

without his approval. Stanley Kubrick's also

6:49

linked to the longstanding claim that

6:51

he helped fake the 1969 Apollo

6:54

11 moon landing, and some suggest

6:56

that he may have been killed

6:58

to keep him from revealing the

7:00

truth that his death was staged

7:02

as part of a deeper cover-up.

7:04

This comes from, you know, the

7:06

whole moon landing thing. There's actually,

7:09

it's very interesting. We can't dive

7:11

into that, but the whole, you

7:13

know, was the moon landing a

7:15

faked thing, is one thing. Stanley

7:17

Kubrick's potential involvement. It's actually very

7:19

interesting. We can't go there. right

7:22

now, obviously. But the whole thing

7:24

is he died of a heart

7:26

attack and his sleep. He didn't

7:28

have any prior health issues. He

7:30

wasn't really even of an advanced

7:32

age. And so it seems suspicious.

7:34

And Ray may have been. I

7:37

guess privy maybe to these conspiracy

7:39

theories. Not saying he was privy

7:41

to knowledge or insider or behind

7:43

the scenes knowledge about what happened

7:45

to Stanley Kubrick, but if he's

7:47

interested in Freemasonry and secret societies,

7:49

he may have been online, in

7:52

forums, things like that, and then

7:54

the Stanley Kubrick conspiracy theory may

7:56

have crossed his path based on

7:58

where he was spending. his time

8:00

on the internet. Now, I wish

8:02

that a forensic examination had been

8:04

done of his computer to see

8:06

if Ray was really spending a

8:08

lot of time in these sort

8:10

of areas on the internet, but

8:12

that was never done. Question for

8:14

you, have you seen Fly Me to

8:17

the Moon with Channing Tatum? No,

8:19

actually, I'm surprised. Gotta watch it.

8:21

It's all about how they faked the

8:23

moon landing. Yeah, I mean... It's not

8:25

based on like... They don't say based on

8:27

a true story, but this is like,

8:29

if it was fake, this is how

8:31

they did it. If you look

8:33

at these conspiracy theories and they

8:36

explain to you how they did

8:38

it, it's not hard to believe.

8:40

Especially considering the government's like, I

8:42

know we did go to the

8:44

moon in the 60s, but we

8:46

lost that technology and we can't

8:48

go back to the moon now, which

8:50

doesn't make any sense. Let's be

8:53

honest. How do you lose technology?

8:55

How can you go in 1969?

8:57

Yes, they said they don't have

8:59

the technology anymore to go. How is

9:01

that possible when they fly out of

9:03

space like a million times? I know.

9:06

I know. I feel like you're wrong on

9:08

that. Even Buzz Aldrin has made

9:10

like a million times. I know.

9:12

I feel like you're wrong on

9:14

that. Even Buzz Aldrin has made

9:17

comments where he was like, we didn't

9:19

go to the moon. What are you

9:21

talking about? So those kinds of like,

9:23

oh, let's bring back these people to

9:25

rejoin the game. What he's saying is

9:28

bring back these deceased people because everybody

9:30

he lists are deceased and and have

9:32

them rejoin the game, which makes you kind

9:34

of think like, does Ray think that this

9:37

might actually be some sort of simulation

9:39

or some sort of game that you

9:41

can kind of die in and then

9:43

come back? Yeah, and when you were reading

9:45

that last week, that's where I felt

9:47

like there might have been. some contradiction

9:49

with one theory that this involved the

9:51

freemasons because i don't know a ton

9:53

about the free basins but i don't

9:55

think it's believed that they can bring

9:57

people back from the dead it is like an

9:59

act society like the Freemasons is a

10:01

real thing right and so it kind

10:03

of it gets a little blurry for

10:06

me here because in one in one

10:08

episode we're talking about this maybe potentially

10:10

being something regarding the Freemasons we know

10:12

that he was looking into that before

10:14

his death he was trying to be

10:16

a member and then he's writing this

10:18

letter as if the group that he's

10:20

speaking to has the ability to resurrect

10:22

people and that doesn't appear to be

10:25

a practice that they suggest they can

10:27

perform. If it was a practice that

10:29

they would suggest they could perform, I'm

10:31

sure they wouldn't publicly announce it. Right.

10:33

So you'd have to believe that within

10:35

the Freemasons there is even something deeper

10:37

that they believe that they don't publicly

10:39

disclose. But just to play, you know,

10:42

Devil's Advocate to show the other side,

10:44

which I was saying. I mentioned CTE,

10:46

we talked about that briefly. Oh, I

10:48

actually looked into that, so. Okay, we

10:50

could talk about that. Just also talk

10:52

about the idea of just a psychotic

10:54

breakdown, which with all the stress that

10:56

people are experiencing in life sometimes, even

10:58

the most composed people who appear to

11:01

have everything going right on the surface

11:03

internally are just not doing well. And

11:05

at some point they come to a

11:07

breaking point and they snap and they

11:09

can go off the deep end. So

11:11

it's not. out of the possibility that

11:13

Ray was just really dealing with a

11:15

lot. And unfortunately it got to a

11:18

point where he started to believe the

11:20

things he became paranoid about to the

11:22

point where he was writing about it.

11:24

Again, I know that half the audience

11:26

is going to agree with me, half

11:28

the audience will not, but that's the

11:30

whole reason recovering Ray Rivera is because

11:32

of people having these beliefs and then

11:34

being so polar, they're being polar opposite

11:37

and yet both people believe they could

11:39

be right. If this was, and I

11:41

think if this was a very cut

11:43

and dry sort of, oh, he jumped

11:45

off a building, we wouldn't cover it.

11:47

Then, and then there wouldn't be, but

11:49

because of like, based on, you know,

11:51

how hard it would have been for

11:54

him to get to that location. Yeah.

11:56

You know, things like that, like the

11:58

condition of his body, his injuries. Obviously,

12:00

this casts reasonable doubt on the fact

12:02

that he did this to himself or

12:04

he did it in the way that

12:06

it appears he did it, right? So

12:08

I think that's where this comes in.

12:10

Well, to recap, I find it very

12:13

hard to believe based on outside circumstances

12:15

that he intentionally killed himself, aka, committed

12:17

a suicide. So that's part of the

12:19

reason recovering this because as of right

12:21

now, his death is ruled... Undetermined, but

12:23

law enforcement believes it was a suicide,

12:25

correct? So his death was ruled undetermined

12:27

by the M.E. and then the police,

12:30

as they do, said in their opinion

12:32

after their investigation that it was a

12:34

suicide. Yes. And I'm not seeing that.

12:36

I'm not seeing that. But I'm just

12:38

another opinion, right? But I'm not seeing

12:40

that based on outside circumstances, what was

12:42

planned for the future. The fact that

12:44

there was no suicide note left behind,

12:46

the fact that there was no preparations

12:49

made for his wife to make. He

12:51

doesn't appear to be the type of

12:53

guy that would just leave all these

12:55

things open-ended, especially as a writer to

12:57

not leave her a note directly explaining

12:59

his reasons why he was doing this.

13:01

Very uncommon. And also to be crass,

13:03

way more easier ways to kill yourself

13:06

than this. Yeah, so you mean not

13:08

a straightforward suicide, whereas he did these

13:10

things knowing that his death would come

13:12

at the end of it, that maybe

13:14

he was going through something mentally where

13:16

there was some sort of delusional aspect

13:18

to it. where he didn't know exactly

13:20

what he was doing and that ended

13:22

in his death. Yeah, and even that,

13:25

I have some concerns about and I'm

13:27

not completely convinced of and the main

13:29

reason being the phone call. It wasn't

13:31

as if Ray just left his house

13:33

on his own and just for no

13:35

reason whatsoever, there was someone else there

13:37

who overheard that phone call that maybe

13:39

the person on the other end of

13:41

that phone didn't know was going to

13:44

be there and without that we wouldn't

13:46

know about this. And yet when law

13:48

enforcement looks into it, it comes back

13:50

to the switchboard for Agora, obviously all

13:52

the subsidiaries are going into it, and

13:54

yet no one after all these years...

13:56

has come forward and claimed to be

13:58

the person on the other end of

14:01

that phone and saying, hey, listen, I

14:03

just need an Excel sheet or there

14:05

was a financial thing that I had

14:07

talked to him about. That person's never

14:09

spoke up. So as far as we

14:11

know, the person that he was on

14:13

the phone with is also the person

14:15

he went to meet. Yes, that seems

14:17

to be a reasonable conclusion, right? That's

14:20

the problem here. And I was even

14:22

thinking like, oh, maybe it was like

14:24

an automated message that went out to

14:26

all employees. But at that point, Ray

14:28

was not an active employee. He was

14:30

a contractor running his own business doing

14:32

a project for Agora. And on top

14:34

of that, you think that somebody would

14:37

have said, oh, yeah, a call went

14:39

out at that time to all employees.

14:41

Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah, absolutely. The fact

14:43

that that hasn't been disclosed where they

14:45

said, yeah, no, we can explain that

14:47

phone call that phone call. That's a

14:49

problem. with him being out there by

14:51

himself. And the phone actually rang. According

14:53

to this witness, the phone actually rang.

14:56

So it's not like he just picked

14:58

up the phone was like, hello? Yes.

15:00

There's nobody on the other end. From

15:02

what would he know? The police found

15:04

the call. That's how they tracked it.

15:06

So it happened. So if he's making

15:08

it all up in his head, then

15:10

who was on the other end of

15:12

that phone? Yeah. That's a problem. It's

15:14

kind of like the John Bonney Ramsey

15:16

Ramsey case, where it's like, I might

15:19

be able to buy the narrative that

15:21

everybody's spinning, that it was some outside

15:23

intruder, but this ransom letter makes that

15:25

everything else seem less logical and less

15:27

consistent. And that's what this phone call

15:29

does in this case. He didn't just

15:31

rush out to go jump off a

15:33

building. Yeah. There was a reason he

15:35

left the house in a hurry that

15:37

way, wearing flip-flops, by the way. And

15:39

not to get off your path here

15:41

with your script, but there's also the

15:43

physics of it, right? We discussed that

15:45

a little bit, and maybe this is

15:47

a good time to just mention it.

15:49

One of you guys actually reached out

15:51

to us and said in a DM,

15:53

you're like, hey, I know you guys

15:56

said you're not an expert in the

15:58

physics of jumping off a building like

16:00

this. I happen to be an aerospace

16:02

engineer and I've created a calculator and

16:04

basically a diagram to show what the

16:06

physics of that fall would look like

16:08

and it's based on initial speed, it's

16:10

based on the distance from the building

16:12

that he would have allegedly fell off

16:14

of or jumped off of to where

16:16

he would have landed and also how

16:18

much horizontal distance he would gain because

16:20

of that equation. And this individual wanted

16:22

to remain anonymous but thank you, you

16:24

know who you are. The description, we'll

16:26

put the little PDF right here, you

16:28

can see it, but overall I just

16:30

asked them point blank because even looking

16:33

at the PDF a couple times, it

16:35

makes sense, but again, we're not geniuses

16:37

like this person is. There's a lot

16:39

of calculations here, but overall he said

16:41

that the speed that Ray would have

16:43

to be traveling would be 9.44 miles

16:45

per hour. and it is possible it

16:47

is possible under certain circumstances and then

16:49

he started talking about drag wind resistance

16:51

all these other things i was like

16:53

you lost me i'll throw up the

16:55

diagram we could put it up here

16:57

but you guys if you're watching on

16:59

YouTube you can see the diagram now

17:01

again thank you to that person who

17:03

provided that document so it's possible but

17:05

he'd have to be running almost 10

17:08

miles an hour almost 10 miles per

17:10

hour and it would be a lot

17:12

easier as we mentioned that if you

17:14

were struck by a vehicle and then

17:16

kind of thrown after being struck, it

17:18

would explain some of the other injuries,

17:20

it would explain the flip-flops, it would

17:22

explain a lot of things that are

17:24

unexplainable at this point. So I throw

17:26

this out there to say, hey, these

17:28

are the physics that would be required,

17:30

whether he was running himself or struck

17:32

and traveling 10 miles per hour through

17:34

the air after being struck by vehicle,

17:36

these are the things that would have

17:38

to take place if he jumped from

17:40

that location. So fastening stuff, we'll throw

17:42

it up there right now. He also

17:45

provided a calculator for us and I

17:47

was like, yeah, no, we're not going

17:49

to be able to. Yeah, he's like

17:51

in case you want to run your

17:53

own scenarios and we're like, where would

17:55

we start? Yeah, exactly. Can you teach

17:57

us? Yeah, exactly. But yes, possible, but

17:59

not probable, right? It's possible 10 miles

18:01

per hour is not super super fast.

18:03

But you'd have to, I feel like

18:05

you'd also have to have the, the, I

18:07

guess, surface area to get up to that

18:10

speed. Well, I mean, he's in a

18:12

parking lot. Well, that's assuming he

18:14

jumped off the top. It's that

18:16

they don't know where he jumped

18:18

from. Remember, they don't know if

18:20

he jumped from the roof of the

18:22

Belvedere. If he jumped from the top

18:25

of the parking garage. Well, that's the

18:27

bigger issue. We don't know. Yes. We

18:29

don't even know. But depending on where

18:31

he jumped from, would it be possible?

18:33

The answer is yes. We're just throwing

18:36

out all scenarios because I'm sure there

18:38

are people who believe, yeah, he was

18:40

having some psychotic breakdown, he was running

18:42

from himself, and he jumped off the

18:44

building thinking somebody was chasing him. If

18:46

he was in a location where he

18:49

could do it, yes, we concede it's

18:51

possible, but it just doesn't seem the

18:53

most probable. That's where I'm at. And I

18:55

know that you know I talk about the flip

18:57

flops and it's like how would you get that

18:59

fast wearing flip flops and you know people are

19:01

like well you could have them in your hand

19:04

if you were running. Yeah you could but then

19:06

like how did they get broken and how did

19:08

they end up where they ended up on the

19:10

roof if he had them in his hand did

19:12

he drop them or let go of them on

19:14

the way down? There's a lot of questions here

19:17

and sort of everything has to line up in

19:19

a work for this to be possible to be

19:21

possible. It just seems like if he was going to

19:23

kill himself, there would be other ways to do it.

19:25

So where I'm at right now as we sit almost at

19:27

the, you know, the middle of this episode or wherever

19:29

we are in it, I just don't see him going

19:32

up there and deliberately jumping off knowing, hey,

19:34

I'm just going to kill myself, life is

19:36

horrible, I don't want to be here. There's

19:38

something else at play here and when you

19:40

think about the letter that you've been explaining

19:42

so much. You know, we're trying to rationalize

19:44

something that may not be rational. He might

19:46

not have been in the right mindset if

19:48

you're on that belief where he did things

19:50

in those last moments that don't make sense

19:53

to a lot of people, the sandals, all

19:55

these things, but the unexplained injuries are my

19:57

problem. So I would agree with you on a lot

19:59

of portions of... the letter, but there are

20:01

some things in the letter that

20:03

do seem very lucid and do

20:05

have connections to real life. And

20:07

we're going to talk about a

20:09

little bit more about that when

20:11

we get back from our first

20:13

break. So

20:16

let's talk about skims and honestly I

20:18

cannot stop talking about my skims bras

20:20

and underwear over the past I don't

20:22

know a year and a half or

20:24

so I've just started replacing all my

20:27

old underwear and bras with skims underwear

20:29

and bras and my top drawer is

20:31

now packed with the softest most supportive

20:33

pieces that keep me comfortable and confident

20:35

all day. I also want to talk

20:37

about the fits everybody pushup raw I

20:40

don't know how to explain this because

20:42

it gives you this lift and this

20:44

shape and it looks beautiful on clothes

20:46

or just on its own, but it's

20:48

not uncomfortable. It's not once again digging

20:50

in. It's not like this underwire thing

20:53

that feels like it's just constricting you

20:55

and you can't breathe. I love it.

20:57

We love scams and Derek is going

20:59

to tell you how you can try

21:01

them out for yourself. Shop Skims Best

21:03

Intiments including the Fits Everybody collection and

21:06

more at skims.com and Skims New York

21:08

Flagship on Fifth Avenue. After you place

21:10

your order, be sure to let them

21:12

know that we sent you. Select Podcast

21:14

in the Survey and be sure to

21:16

select our show in the drop-down menu

21:19

that follows. And if you're looking for

21:21

the perfect gift for your Valentine or

21:23

for yourself, Skims just launched their best

21:25

Valentine's shop ever. Available in sizes women,

21:27

men, and kids. Okay,

21:32

so in this letter Ray left behind,

21:34

he lists some technology and medical advances,

21:36

and most of these don't seem to

21:39

have any connection or make any sense,

21:41

at least to me, right? Which leads

21:43

me to wonder if they are in

21:46

some kind of code. But one of

21:48

these innovations actually does stand out. Now,

21:50

Stansbury Research, Porter, Stansbury Company, they did

21:52

have some investments in medical patents, and

21:55

the company wrote about one of these

21:57

in an article saying, quote, for example,

21:59

we picked intuitive. surgical in March 2004

22:02

when it was $18 a stock and

22:04

we booked a 124% return a little

22:06

over a year later in April of

22:09

2005. Today their shares trade for nearly

22:11

$530 end quote. So intuitive surgical is

22:13

a modern technology company best known for

22:16

developing the Da Vinci surgical robot, a

22:18

robotic assisted platform designed to enhance precision

22:20

and minimally invasive surgeries. We know that

22:23

Ray Rivera listed the Da Vinci surgical

22:25

robot in those innovations. And as we

22:27

also know, Ray Rivera moved to Baltimore

22:29

to work for Porter Stansbury in early

22:32

2004. And Porter's Company began investing in

22:34

intuitive surgical in March of 2004, right

22:36

around that same time. So Ray may

22:39

have had some knowledge about this patent,

22:41

about their investment, and maybe, you know,

22:43

new some inside information about that. Ray

22:46

also talked about owning all of these

22:48

properties all over the world. And some

22:50

of these places do correspond with locations

22:53

where William Bonner, the main guy of

22:55

Agora Inc, actually did own property, like

22:57

Argentina and France. And Ray also mentioned

23:00

Madrid and Thailand, both are places where

23:02

Agora Inc had offices. So sometimes you'll

23:04

see this if somebody's writing a coded

23:06

letter, they'll put a bunch of extraneous

23:09

information and then they'll put... Things in

23:11

there that actually do connect and actually

23:13

do have meaning and make sense. And

23:16

all the other extraneous information is there

23:18

to distract or sort of divert anybody

23:20

else reading the letter who doesn't have

23:23

the kind of inside knowledge that Ray

23:25

and maybe whoever he intended this letter

23:27

for would have to be able to

23:30

pick out the important pieces from a

23:32

sea of kind of nonsense. This is

23:34

what I'm going to say about the

23:37

letter because I was reading the comments

23:39

and stuff and people some agree with

23:41

you. Here's what I'll say. I'm not

23:43

perfect and I have some blind spots

23:46

and I think that's why it's also

23:48

very important to get outside opinions from

23:50

everyone. I don't think my brain... has

23:53

the ability to see that. I think

23:55

when I deduce things I try to

23:57

come to the most logical conclusion but

24:00

to concede to you that's not always

24:02

the right answer. Sometimes because of people

24:04

like me who are looking for the

24:07

logical explanation I miss the real reason.

24:09

So it's just something that I can't

24:11

see I just like to believe that

24:14

what you're seeing is more than likely

24:16

what it looks like and that's why

24:18

I keep coming back to some type

24:20

of psychotic breakdown. But I will, like

24:23

I said, in this moment, concede that

24:25

if there's something deeper that's coded, I'm

24:27

just not seeing the pattern, but it

24:30

doesn't mean that I'm right. I mean,

24:32

I think also both things can be

24:34

true. Like, there could have been a

24:37

psychotic break, but some of these things

24:39

that he's saying do have roots in

24:41

the real world. Also possible. Also possible.

24:44

Yeah, like just the Da Vinci surgical

24:46

robot connection to Porter Stansbury, the locations

24:48

he mentioned having links to William Bonner.

24:51

These could have been things that he

24:53

just knew and then in a delusional

24:55

state sort of threw in there. You

24:57

know, it can both be true at

25:00

the same time. I think it was

25:02

also the format of it. Like I've

25:04

seen letters like this written by people

25:07

who were having issues where they're, you

25:09

know, they write it in weird fonts

25:11

or they write it on pieces of

25:14

paper and they rip it up and

25:16

they rip it up and then they

25:18

tape it back together. I've seen this

25:21

as an investigator. So I've seen this

25:23

as an investigator. Like it wasn't taped

25:25

to the back of a desktop. I

25:28

don't know the rationale behind that, but

25:30

it's not meant for me. And that's

25:32

why I'm saying what I'm saying. So

25:34

either way, I think it's important to

25:37

analyze the letter because it will speak

25:39

to Ray's state of mind at the

25:41

time. Couldn't agree more. I just wish

25:44

there would have been a second letter

25:46

to Ray's state of mind at the

25:48

time. Couldn't agree more. I just wish

25:51

there would have been a second letter

25:53

to his planning to die. I don't

25:55

either. Now I have ADHD, so my

25:58

brain... I mean, my brain is a

26:00

pattern recognition machine, which people in my

26:02

relationships don't like because I will sometimes

26:05

assume that things are happening because I'll

26:07

be like, oh, every day you act

26:09

like this, you're acting like this, and

26:11

now you're acting like this, you must

26:14

be mad at me. I mean, in

26:16

the beginning, you dealt with this all

26:18

the time. I would text you and

26:21

call you and be like, hey, you

26:23

usually text me a lot, and you're not

26:25

texting me today, like, did I do

26:28

something wrong? And I add in, no, because then I

26:30

add that into my pattern recognition machine.

26:32

And I'm like, oh, sometimes if he's

26:34

busy or in a bad mood or

26:36

not feeling good or whatever, then his

26:38

behavior will change. So I just add

26:40

it in and it computes. When it

26:42

comes to velocity and drag and stuff

26:44

like that, my brain is not a

26:46

computer. But when it comes to human

26:48

behavior and recognizing patterns and picking up

26:51

on things like that. It absolutely is

26:53

a computer. So I enjoy sort of

26:55

looking at the things, especially the lists

26:57

of innovations, the movies, things like that,

26:59

and trying to find common themes. So

27:01

let's go over some of the films

27:03

Ray mentioned in his letter to find

27:06

out what they might have meant to

27:08

him. Or more importantly, what do they

27:10

have in common? The Matrix films, starring

27:13

Keanu Reeves, all deal with the concept

27:15

of simulation versus reality. What is real?

27:17

How do we define what is real?

27:20

They also discuss themes of a free

27:22

will versus control. You know, can humans

27:24

actually make decisions or is everything

27:26

already laid out and predetermined? National

27:29

Treasure, which stars Nicholas Cage as

27:31

Benjamin Franklin Gates, a man who

27:33

comes from a long line of

27:35

treasure hunters who have spent generations

27:37

searching for a legendary hidden treasure,

27:40

rumored to have been amassed by

27:42

the founding fathers and the Freemasons.

27:44

Now according to Gates' family lord,

27:46

the treasure was secretly protected throughout

27:49

history with clues hidden in historical

27:51

artifacts and covers a plot to

27:53

steal the Declaration of Independence, but when

27:55

he tries to report his findings to

27:57

the government, he's written off as conspiracy

27:59

theorists. so he makes a plan to

28:01

steal the declaration of independence before the

28:04

bad guys can. Now let's move on

28:06

to the Da Vinci Code, starring Tom

28:08

Hanks, that deals with themes of religious

28:10

conspiracies, secret societies, hidden messages, and symbolism.

28:12

We also have eyes-wide shut, starring Tom

28:14

Cruise and Nicole Kidman. This implies that

28:17

an elite class is engaging in secretive

28:19

and possibly sinister activities operating outside the

28:21

bounds of the law. In this film,

28:23

those who attempt to reveal the secrets

28:25

of this group get killed off, and

28:28

then their deaths are covered up and

28:30

reported as suicides. Meet Joe Black starring

28:32

Brad Pitt also plays with themes of

28:34

fate versus free will. like The Matrix

28:36

and focuses on death in what it

28:39

means. Now we got Star Wars. That's

28:41

also going to deal with the idea

28:43

of humans and robots living side by

28:45

side in a galaxy far, far away

28:47

where everything is held together by the

28:49

force. And if you can harness the

28:52

force, you can develop special abilities like

28:54

telepathy and telekinesis. There were more films

28:56

listed like Seven, the Born Identity Trilogy,

28:58

being John Malkovich. But the question here

29:00

would be, what do all of these

29:03

films have in common? And as it

29:05

turns out, they all share several common

29:07

themes. One being the hero's journey, where

29:09

what I like to call Harry Potter

29:11

syndrome, by the way, the hero's journey

29:13

to me has always been Harry Potter

29:16

syndrome. It's like this regular kid. He

29:18

just comes from like this horrible background,

29:20

this horrible childhood. He's shoved in a

29:22

closet under the stairs, and then it

29:24

turns out he's like this powerful wizard

29:27

who's the only one that can save

29:29

all of wizard and kind. And it's

29:31

kind of that, like the hero's journey,

29:33

this regular person who's handed. A very

29:35

important task, where a protagonist is thrust

29:37

into a mysterious or dangerous new reality

29:40

and undergoes a transformation. For instance, Neo,

29:42

in the Matrix, he awakens to the

29:44

reality of the Matrix, he fulfils his

29:46

destiny, Frodo, from Lord of the Rings,

29:48

which was also mentioned in Raiseless, he

29:51

leaves the shire to destroy the one

29:53

ring. Luke Skywalker embarks on a journey

29:55

to become a Jedi. Another theme, obviously...

29:57

is pertaining to secret societies, conspiracy theories,

29:59

and hidden truths that the protagonist must

30:01

uncover. Another theme is that reality is

30:04

not what it seems, with several of

30:06

these films blurring the line between reality

30:08

and illusion, challenging the protagonists and the

30:10

audience's perception of the world. In The

30:12

Matrix, the world is a simulation, controlled

30:15

by machines. In being John Malkovich, people

30:17

can enter other people's consciousnesses. In Minority

30:19

Report, future crimes are predicted, which questions

30:21

free will and authority. The theme of

30:23

fate versus free will is very prevalent

30:26

in this selection of films that Ray

30:28

decided to list. And then we have

30:30

the theme of a protagonist with a

30:32

lost or hidden identity, along with a

30:34

theme of psychological and existential dilemmas. Eternal

30:36

Sunshine of the Spotless Mind asks if

30:39

we should be able to erase painful

30:41

memories. Is that taking away who we

30:43

really are or a part of who

30:45

we are if we erase those memories?

30:47

Being John Melkovich asks, what does it

30:50

mean to inhabit another person's mind? The

30:52

game, which we're going to talk about

30:54

a little bit more in a second,

30:56

the game asks how much of life

30:58

is real and how much is manipulation

31:00

manipulation. We also have the theme of

31:03

a mystery or a puzzle to solve.

31:05

Now I do want to single out

31:07

one of these films before we move

31:09

on, The Game, starring Michael Douglas. Have

31:11

you ever seen this movie? No, I

31:14

don't think I have actually. So it's

31:16

actually a very good movie, but we're

31:18

talking about it because not only is

31:20

it one of the movies that Ray

31:22

listed, but. The plot of the movie

31:24

is also eerily similar to the events

31:27

of Ray's life after he arrived in

31:29

Baltimore to work for Porter Stansbury. The

31:31

main character in this film finds himself

31:33

involved with a company called Consumer Recreation

31:35

Services when a friend hands him a

31:38

voucher for a game, but he has

31:40

to jump through all of these hoops

31:42

and undergo psychological and physical tests in

31:44

order to apply, and he begins to

31:46

feel like this game is putting him

31:48

in danger. He finds out that innocent

31:51

people he encounters are undercover, CRS employees,

31:53

consumer recreation services employees. He finds out

31:55

he's being watched and that the company

31:57

has drained his bank. accounts. He ends

31:59

up being drugged, knocked out, and he

32:02

wakes up buried alive in Mexico where

32:04

he has to sell the watch he's

32:06

wearing to get home only to discover

32:08

that his mansion's been foreclosed on. Many

32:10

of his personal possessions have been taken,

32:13

and he's pretty much ruined. He finally

32:15

loses it, and he gets a gun,

32:17

but when he meets with his contact

32:19

and she sees that he has a

32:21

weapon, she tells him it's all part

32:23

of the game. And everything is normal,

32:26

and all he has to do is

32:28

open the door. and his friends and

32:30

family will be there ready to celebrate

32:32

with him, but he doesn't believe her

32:34

so he shoots the first person on

32:37

the other side of the door who

32:39

ends up being his friend with a

32:41

bottle of champagne ready to celebrate. Devastated

32:43

over this, Michael Douglas' character throws himself

32:45

off a building, but he survives when

32:47

he lands on an inflatable cushion only

32:50

to find out that his friend that

32:52

he thought he had killed was alive

32:54

and all the other people from the

32:56

game. are also alive and then they

32:58

go on to help him become a

33:01

better person and be appreciative for everything

33:03

that he has and everyone lives happily

33:05

ever after. Are you suggesting, and maybe

33:07

I'm missing the mark here, are you

33:09

suggesting that maybe this wasn't a suicide

33:11

but based on the premise, the plot

33:14

of this game... There could be a

33:16

world where Ray thought he was also

33:18

in some type of simulation and by

33:20

jumping off this building... Like a hero's

33:22

journey. He wasn't going to die. He

33:25

was actually going to be alive for

33:27

the first time. He was actually going

33:29

to be back into his real life.

33:31

by jumping off this building. I'm not

33:33

suggesting it. I'm saying it's a possibility.

33:35

It's possible, right? Because if you look

33:38

at it, he keeps mentioning the game,

33:40

the game, it's been a well-played game.

33:42

And I hope you now invite all

33:44

those who have given their lives in

33:46

the pursuit of this game back to

33:49

join, to join the game, to rejoin

33:51

us, right, and celebrate with us. And

33:53

that's very similar, eer, eerily similar to

33:55

the ending of this movie. It's a

33:57

fascinating hypothesis because I keep saying, oh,

34:00

this couldn't be a suicide. I don't

34:02

think Ray would have intentionally jumped off

34:04

this building, but I should correct that

34:06

and say, I don't think he jumped

34:08

off this building to end his life.

34:10

If he's going through something, whether real...

34:13

or not real, maybe it's just real

34:15

in his own mind. He could have

34:17

intentionally jumped off this building thinking, this

34:19

is what he needed to do, this

34:21

is the next step in the process.

34:24

So it is kind of a hybrid

34:26

of what we're talking about here, where

34:28

I'm saying there may have been some

34:30

type of psychotic breakdown where he's imagining

34:32

things that aren't happening, or for the

34:34

people out there who believe it is

34:37

happening, and in order to get back

34:39

to the game or to get out

34:41

of the game, he has to accomplish

34:43

this next mission, which is... jumping off

34:45

this building into some type of portal

34:48

or whatever that's going to bring him

34:50

back. But now I ask you, that's

34:52

not what happened as far as we

34:54

know. So I guess the simulation theory

34:56

is out the window then, right? Because

34:58

he's dead. I would never say that

35:01

Ray was genuinely living in a simulation,

35:03

but he could have definitely thought he

35:05

was. That is an interesting angle to

35:07

take because like I said we can

35:09

rule out the possibility that he was

35:12

doing this with the intention of killing

35:14

himself because he just didn't want to

35:16

live anymore. As he's trying to get

35:18

into these societies, as he's trying to

35:20

decipher this game that he believes he's

35:22

playing, it could have got to a

35:25

point where he's like okay. this hotel

35:27

is where I got to go. This

35:29

is where the portal is. I put

35:31

it all together. I found it. If

35:33

I jump off this building from this

35:36

height, it's going to bring me into

35:38

where I want to be. Or was

35:40

someone messing with him or kind of

35:42

like playing into his paranoia and being

35:44

like, okay, right, the game is at

35:47

hand now. Meet me on the, you

35:49

know, the parking garage roof next to

35:51

the Belvedere Hotel and await your final

35:53

instructions kind of thing. The call bothers

35:55

me. There could be a reasonable explanation

35:57

for it, but I haven't seen it.

36:00

Yeah, no, there is none. Yeah, because

36:02

if there was, the police would know

36:04

and obviously Ray's, you know, wife Allison

36:06

would know because they would have told

36:08

her, but there's nothing. And of course,

36:11

the internet did take Ray's letter and

36:13

they tried to decipher it, and they've

36:15

come up with their own theory. for

36:17

instance, Reddit user Quartz Lizard points out

36:19

that the formation of the the letter

36:21

of the text slash the shape of

36:24

the letter spells help. And I'm going

36:26

to have Shannon put this up on

36:28

screen because this Reddit user circled it

36:30

so you could see, but it has

36:32

the H on the left, the E

36:35

and the L in the middle, separated

36:37

by a chunk of text, and then

36:39

the P. on the right. And so

36:41

if you do look at it that

36:43

way, it does look like the word

36:45

help. Now some other people believe the

36:48

note might be a coded message or

36:50

even a tone map for a screenplay

36:52

that Ray was working on. And we're

36:54

going to talk about that in a

36:56

minute, but I actually ran the letter

36:59

through AI, which is something that wasn't

37:01

available to me when I first covered

37:03

this case in 2020, and I basically

37:05

was like, hey, AI. Analyze this letter.

37:07

Do you think it's written in code?

37:09

And obviously it's not that easy. You've

37:12

got to give it a lot of

37:14

other prompts. You've got to kind of

37:16

like guide it along the way. Basically,

37:18

I asked AI to analyze it using

37:20

cryptographic techniques to determine if there were

37:23

any patterns, hidden meanings, or encoded messages.

37:25

And the analysis. is as follows. They

37:27

said that there was a high frequency

37:29

of common letters and the most frequently

37:31

used letters align with normal English text

37:34

such as E, T, A, O, I,

37:36

N. And this suggests that the code

37:38

was not using a simple letter substitution

37:40

cipher like the Caesar cipher. The Caesar

37:42

cipher is very well known in the

37:44

code breaking sort of community. It's one

37:47

of the oldest and simplest encryption techniques.

37:49

It was attributed to Julius Caesar who

37:51

reportedly. used it to secure military messages.

37:53

Very interesting. Now, it is a type

37:55

of substitution cipher, where each letter in

37:58

the plain text is shifted forward and

38:00

backward in the alphabet by a fixed

38:02

number of positions. So basically, AI is

38:04

saying, we don't believe that there was

38:06

a letter of substitution cipher, like the

38:08

Caesar cipher used here. Now, the unusual

38:11

phrases, such as the game is finished,

38:13

along with a list of movies and

38:15

books, does seem symbolic or coded. according

38:17

to AI. Also, the list of inventions

38:19

and technologies like Wi-Fi, RFID, appear out

38:22

of place and could be part of

38:24

a pattern or an encoded message. AI

38:26

then used something they called a Vigner

38:28

cipher, which uses a keyword-based shifting system,

38:30

and they used this on Ray's letter.

38:32

And they said the text did not

38:35

produce clear readable English when tested against

38:37

common words from Ray's letter as decryption

38:39

keys, and this suggests that either a

38:41

different encryption method was used or if

38:43

the letter is structured differently. Because remember,

38:46

we don't have the full letter. It's

38:48

not completely released. If the Vigner cipher

38:50

was used, it may require a different

38:52

keyword, something longer, more obscure, or even

38:54

more personal to Ray. Next, AI checked

38:56

for Accrossics, which is the first letters

38:59

of the sentences and word frequencies in

39:01

Ray's letter. Extracting the first letter of

39:03

each sentence did not spell out a

39:05

clear phrase or code, but certain letters

39:07

appear more frequently, which may indicate a

39:10

patterned message. Repeat. Repeat words like counsel,

39:12

game, players, and Porter Stansbury might hint

39:14

at coded meanings or structured references, and

39:16

the mention of specific movies, technologies, and

39:18

locations could serve as a clue to

39:21

an external cipher, a reference. So they're

39:23

saying, hey, this letter could be coded,

39:25

and the actual text of the letter

39:27

could be what's coded, and then the

39:29

list of movies and films and technologies

39:31

he gave are supposed to be hinting

39:34

at where the cipher can be found.

39:36

So next, AI checked for anagrams in

39:38

key sentences, and it found that the

39:40

generated anagrams did not immediately reveal clear

39:42

messages, but certain words could be rearranged

39:45

to form alternative meanings, possibly as part

39:47

of a larger code. So they said

39:49

if an anagram was intended, it may

39:51

not be a single word, but across

39:53

multiple phrases. And some words in the

39:55

letter do match Masonic or Secret Society

39:58

language, suggesting once again, an external reference

40:00

might be needed, an external cipher that

40:02

might be needed in order to break

40:04

this code. AI then attempted something called

40:06

a book cipher test because the letter

40:09

mentioned multiple books and movies, so the

40:11

message might be referenced. referencing specific words

40:13

from these sources. This resulted in no

40:15

immediate recognizable messages. I then had AI

40:17

analyze the frequency of repeated words to

40:19

identify hidden patterns, and once again it

40:22

came back that the list of movies,

40:24

tech, and locations may be more than

40:26

just references. They could correspond to a

40:28

coded. pattern and the phrase, the game

40:30

is finished, appears in multiple theories about

40:33

secret societies which may indicate something deeper.

40:35

I also had AI cross-check the frequently

40:37

used words in the letter against known

40:39

Masonic and historical cipher terms and it

40:41

told me that the following words from

40:43

Ray's letter aligned with known Masonic or

40:46

esoteric terminology. Council often refers to a

40:48

ruling body in secret societies or organizations.

40:50

Virtue is central to Masonic philosophy and

40:52

game could symbolize an initiation or or

40:54

test in secret organizations. Also, the word

40:57

truth is often linked to enlightenment and

40:59

hidden knowledge in esoteric teachings. Freemasons, Knights

41:01

Templar, and other fraternal organizations use coded

41:03

language to conceal knowledge from outsiders and

41:05

the phrase, the game is finished, could

41:08

reference an initiation or completion of a

41:10

Masonic ritual. If the letter is written

41:12

in Codexonic or historical terms, it might

41:14

be a symbolic initiation or farewell message.

41:16

a warning or hidden communication or a

41:18

way to disguise sensitive information. That's what

41:21

AI said. So AI was basically not

41:23

dismissing the fact that this could be

41:25

written in code, but they're saying, as

41:27

far as any ciphers, which is how

41:29

you would decipher the code, as far

41:32

as any ciphers that we're aware of,

41:34

it doesn't appear that any are used

41:36

here. There could be an external cipher

41:38

needed, such as maybe in a sonic

41:40

text or something that Ray referenced in

41:42

that list of movies, books. innovations, medical

41:45

and technological. I just don't understand, like,

41:47

that's obviously fascinating, especially with AI, but

41:49

the place where he left it, it

41:51

just, it seems like it could be

41:53

left somewhere else. It could be found

41:56

by anyone, it could be found by

41:58

his wife, it could be found by

42:00

law. it could be found by the

42:02

cleaner, it could be found by anyone.

42:04

It just seems like if it was

42:06

meant for a specific person who would

42:09

have access to this masonic text,

42:11

it would be left in a location

42:13

where that individual would find

42:15

it. They would have to break into

42:18

his house to find that letter. Or

42:20

they're a friend, or they're a

42:22

friend, and they're a friend, and they're

42:24

a friend, and they'd have to

42:27

break into his house to find that.

42:29

Just a lot of steps, not impossible, but

42:31

just a lot of things that you have

42:33

to believe in order to get there.

42:35

We've talked about true crime cases where,

42:37

you know, women have talked to people

42:39

and been like, hey, if anything happens to

42:42

me, you know, open this letter, I forget

42:44

which case it was, but a woman was

42:46

being, was it the Connie DeBate case? I

42:48

can't remember, but she basically left a

42:50

letter with her neighbor, and she was

42:52

like, if anything happens to me, open this

42:54

letter. So that's not crazy. And Ray

42:57

may have been like, if anything happens

42:59

to me, you're going to find a

43:01

very tiny, tiniily typed message taped to

43:04

the side of my computer. And if

43:06

this is a friend of Ray's and

43:08

they're coming over to console Allison

43:10

or visit her or bring her like,

43:13

what do they bring when like a

43:15

lasagna or like a casserole? Flowers, chocolate.

43:17

Yeah, something. You know, come over like,

43:19

oh here I brought you a casserole? Like, can

43:22

I come in? And you know, I don't know.

43:24

Right. So as we talked briefly

43:26

about last episode, the FBI did

43:28

analyze this letter as well. So

43:30

we're going to take a quick

43:32

break and we're going to come

43:34

back and kind of get an

43:36

idea about the FBI things happened

43:38

here. So is anybody else like

43:40

me? I know a lot of people

43:42

are like me and a lot of

43:45

people probably aren't, but I still think

43:47

that a lot of us share this

43:49

same thing is we sign up for

43:51

something. And we start like a seven

43:53

day free trial then we forget about

43:55

it after the trial period ends and

43:57

then you get charged and I just

43:59

actually learned that 85% of

44:01

people have at least one

44:04

paid subscription going unused each

44:06

month. And Stephanie had several.

44:09

But thanks to Rocket Money,

44:11

I can now see all

44:13

my subscriptions in one place

44:16

and cancel the ones I'm

44:18

not using anymore. And now

44:21

I am saving more money.

44:23

And now I am saving

44:25

more money. And that's awesome.

44:28

So Rocket Money is a

44:30

personal finance app that helps

44:32

find and cancel your money.

44:35

saving members up to $740

44:37

a year when using all

44:40

of the app's premium features,

44:42

which is crazy. You guys

44:44

need to check rocket money

44:47

out. It really, really has

44:49

simplified my finances for me,

44:52

and Derek's going to tell

44:54

you how. That's right. Council

44:56

your unwanted subscriptions and reach

44:59

your financial goals faster with

45:01

Rocket money.com.com. All

45:06

right, we're back. So as I

45:09

mentioned before, the Baltimore police, they

45:11

didn't know what to make of

45:13

this letter. And so they sent

45:15

it to Quantico for the FBI

45:17

to analyze. And the FBI report

45:19

states that according to police interviews

45:22

with family members, Ray had no

45:24

known physical or mental illness, and

45:26

he had made a comment in

45:28

the presence of others that he

45:30

believed the Church of Scientology, and

45:33

the Freemasons ran the East Coast

45:35

film industry. So Baltimore Police Department

45:37

reported that Ray's autopsy did not

45:39

detect the presence of drugs in

45:41

his system, but his body was

45:43

too decomposed to determine if he

45:46

had recently ingested alcohol. Which that's

45:48

weird that you can you do

45:50

toxicology to detect because there was

45:52

a lot of blood on the

45:54

wall as we heard. They couldn't

45:57

have swapped that and like tested

45:59

it for alcohol. Does that sound

46:01

a little hard to believe that

46:03

you can test the blood for

46:05

drugs but not alcohol? Tested it

46:07

was ethanol? Well, I mean, I

46:10

could be wrong about this and

46:12

any of the doctors in the

46:14

comments let us know, but I

46:16

would think the ethanol would evaporate.

46:18

Maybe. Yeah, that's my time hitting

46:21

the air. Yep. That over time

46:23

by sitting there would evaporate it

46:25

would evaporate into the air. Yeah,

46:27

that makes sense, but there was

46:29

no blood left in his body,

46:31

I guess, I don't know. I

46:34

mean, listen, I've unfortunately experienced a

46:36

couple suicides like this and car

46:38

accidents similar to this where, without

46:40

getting into all the details, it's

46:42

interesting what the body does under

46:45

this type of trauma. I'll leave

46:47

it at that. Well, the FBI

46:49

report states, quote, in the treatment

46:51

of clinical disorders. Psychiatry begin by

46:53

looking for the root cause behind

46:55

the behavior. Mainly, there are three

46:58

causes of delusional thoughts. First is

47:00

a physical defect. For instance, an

47:02

individual may be suffering from head

47:04

trauma or a brain tumor. Second,

47:06

delusional thoughts may be caused by

47:09

drug or alcohol abuse. Third, the

47:11

individual suffers from a true psychotic

47:13

disorder. BPD's investigation to date has

47:15

not confirmed Rivera suffered from a

47:17

recent head injury. drug or alcohol

47:19

abuse or a psychotic disorder." End

47:22

quote. The report goes on to

47:24

say that the overall themes in language

47:26

and raise a letter, however, are consistent

47:28

with someone who does suffer from a

47:31

mental illness, like delusional or bipolar disorder

47:33

or schizophrenia, and the report says that

47:35

persons with a delusional disorder can be

47:38

highly functional in many areas of their

47:40

life. And in this particular case, the

47:42

mental illness suffered by the author of

47:44

the letter may go virtually undetected by

47:47

family, friends, and coworkers. And the FBI

47:49

report states that there are subtypes of

47:51

delusional disorder and they believe that Ray

47:54

may have suffered from persecutory. delusional disorder,

47:56

which involves believing that they are being

47:58

malevinly treated in some fashion. The FBI

48:01

then goes on to state that delusional

48:03

disorder, though, it's pretty rare. It affects

48:05

only about 20 people out of 10,000,

48:08

and the age of onset for this

48:10

disorder is relatively late, with the average

48:12

first age of admission into a psych

48:15

facility being between the ages of 40

48:17

and 49. So basically they're saying, like,

48:19

if Ray suffered from delusional disorder, we

48:22

believe it was this type. However, this

48:24

is very, very rare, and usually we

48:26

don't see the first signs of this

48:28

until their 40s, which Ray was younger

48:31

than that. The report then also states,

48:33

quote, the writing in this letter is

48:35

also consistent with someone who suffers from

48:38

bipolar disorder. This assumption is based on

48:40

the flight of ideas that could have

48:42

been written by someone experiencing an untreated

48:45

manic episode. End quote. However, once again,

48:47

this statement is qualified with the facts

48:49

that people who suffer from bipolar disorder

48:52

also often have serious medical problems, elevated

48:54

mood, they take part in risky behavior

48:56

including reckless sex, and they often suffer

48:59

from depression. Quote, bipolar disorders typically but

49:01

not always develop in the early to

49:03

late teens and often go undetected for

49:06

several years. Suicide accounts for up to

49:08

20% of deaths in severe bipolar illness.

49:10

Approximately 90% of suicide victims have a

49:12

psychiatric disturbance. end quote. So once again,

49:15

they're saying, hey, yes, if somebody was

49:17

bipolar and was experiencing a manic episode,

49:19

this letter does seem consistent with what

49:22

that person would be thinking and writing.

49:24

However, once again, you would see other

49:26

signs of this risky behavior, elevated moods,

49:29

then depression, things like that. I guess

49:31

you could say that Ray was having

49:33

depression symptoms and then elevated moods, so

49:36

times of quietness, times of introvertedness, and

49:38

then times of being kind of very

49:40

excited. excitable but there's no there's no

49:43

evidence that that he did have bipolar

49:45

disorder. I wouldn't say bipolar but I'm

49:47

say there was some level of paranoia

49:50

I remember you describing an example of

49:52

the track right and the way you

49:54

gave the description of it the way

49:56

it's probably the way it went down

49:59

but as you described it there was

50:01

a guy following Alice and his wife

50:03

on the track and then he jumped

50:06

out of the car and then the

50:08

guy turned around now there's a real

50:10

world where that guy turned around because

50:13

Ray jumped out like a like a

50:15

crazy person and basically the guy was

50:17

like I'm not going near that dude

50:20

he looks like he's about to punch

50:22

me and that's why he turned around

50:24

and walked away but in raised mind

50:27

he thought that person was gonna hurt

50:29

Allison so there were some some subtleties

50:31

where it could suggest there was something

50:34

going on where he would have a

50:36

lack of emotional control because of the

50:38

potential delusions he was experiencing. Yes and

50:41

then we also kind of heard them

50:43

talk about in the beginning like hey

50:45

there's several reasons why somebody may act

50:47

like this and one might be physical

50:50

like a head trauma or a brain

50:52

tumor and the Baltimore police department did

50:54

look into this and they found no

50:57

evidence that Ray had suffered from a

50:59

recent head trauma didn't have any issues

51:01

like that you know obviously by the

51:04

time they did his autopsy there was

51:06

other things happening so it would be

51:08

difficult to determine if any of that

51:11

head trauma had happened prior to his

51:13

fall or jump or What have you?

51:15

Yeah. But the Baltimore Police Department did

51:18

like question people, question his family, most

51:20

likely. even talk to his water polo

51:22

people. And as far as anybody could

51:25

tell, there was no head trauma or

51:27

head wound, which kind of answers your

51:29

question that we had talked about last

51:31

episode. Yeah, and Kimberlya, who has a

51:34

YouTube channel to crime. We love her.

51:36

We see her at CrimeCon. She's super

51:38

invested in this series. She's been deeming

51:41

me all over thoughts. She's been reposting.

51:43

So and she's been commenting on these

51:45

videos. were to her like thighs and

51:48

groin area and not to the head

51:50

at least you know above surface sometimes

51:52

she's like whatever happened under the water

51:55

happened under the water but I'll say

51:57

this CT was one example of what

51:59

it could be could be from a

52:02

previous head trauma but there are also

52:04

many people who experienced these altering mental

52:06

health issues that have no previous injuries

52:09

that just it comes on maybe it's

52:11

genetic maybe it's hereditary there's a million

52:13

explanations for it so even absence of

52:15

the CT E theory, as you've been

52:18

laying out for the last 10, 15

52:20

minutes, it's still possible that he experienced

52:22

some type of psychological breakdown leading to

52:25

this behavior. Well, so then the FBI

52:27

report then again switches gears. saying quote

52:29

the thinking in this letter is disorganized

52:32

and to a lesser extent it is

52:34

consistent with someone who suffers from schizophrenia

52:36

features of schizophrenia include delusions as well

52:39

as hallucinations disorganized speech grossly disorganized our

52:41

catatonic behavior neglected self-care and persistence for

52:43

at least six months between 10 to

52:46

15% of individuals with schizophrenia die from

52:48

suicide end quote so what they're basically

52:50

saying is like hey could be this

52:53

delusional disorder but that's pretty rare And

52:55

the age of onset doesn't match up

52:57

with how old Ray was. They also

52:59

say, hey, could be bipolar disorder. But,

53:02

you know, once again, people who suffer

53:04

from bipolar disorder are going to have

53:06

other things that people around them are

53:09

going to notice in the months leading

53:11

up to, you know, whatever. Yeah, especially

53:13

Allison, you know. And then they're saying,

53:16

hey, schizophrenia. But they say to a

53:18

lesser extent. So they're not saying, oh,

53:20

he definitely suffered from schizophrenia. They're saying,

53:23

hey, this might be consistent with how

53:25

someone with schizophrenia would behave. And they

53:27

kind of draw all of these theories

53:30

back to this is how common taking

53:32

your own life while you have these

53:34

mental health illnesses is. And they're saying,

53:37

which is crazy that 20% of deaths,

53:39

suicide accounts for 20% of deaths in

53:41

severe bipolar illness. That makes me. very

53:43

very sad for these people because it's

53:46

bad enough to not have control over

53:48

your own thoughts to not be able

53:50

to stop the raising thoughts to not

53:53

be able to control when you're switching

53:55

from highs to lows to the point

53:57

where these people feel this is the

54:00

only way I can have peace this

54:02

is the only way I can escape

54:04

from myself it's very sad to me

54:07

it is it's extremely sad and we've

54:09

talked about it in other cases and

54:11

it's something that unfortunately we're probably Never

54:14

gonna get away from but I Just

54:16

don't think that's what happened here I

54:18

don't think he was experiencing schizophrenia decided

54:21

to take his own life because of

54:23

that No, I think that his mind

54:25

if at all was playing tricks on

54:27

him to the point where he felt

54:30

like This was the only option he

54:32

had left. Yes, but I always am

54:34

going to keep going back to the

54:37

one problem with this With these mental

54:39

health disorders most as you mentioned a

54:41

lot of people concede around them and

54:44

they're like hey Joe or Kate What

54:46

you're describing, it's not happening. And yet,

54:48

we have a phone call that happened

54:51

right before it. He didn't make that

54:53

up with his brain unless his brain

54:55

is way more developed than we even

54:58

know where he manifested this phone ringing.

55:00

Someone called this dude. We don't know

55:02

who that is as we sit here.

55:05

So we can put everything on this,

55:07

you know, this mental disorder that was

55:09

conjuring up these thoughts that didn't actually,

55:12

you know, exist. And yet... He's still

55:14

getting phone calls right before he leaves

55:16

the house and he's dead hours later.

55:18

Could be coincidence, but that's tough to

55:21

believe. Like I almost wonder, and this

55:23

is completely just speculation, but knowing how,

55:25

sorry, no, I don't mean to generalize,

55:28

but knowing how men are sometimes, especially

55:30

when they're like these finance bro types,

55:32

I almost wonder if Ray was kind

55:35

of talking to like the people he

55:37

had worked with. at Porter's Company and

55:39

kind of talking about these theories and

55:42

like these conspiracy things and from the

55:44

retreat they called him to like mess

55:46

with him. you know, like, ha ha,

55:49

like it's prank, they're all drinking, they're

55:51

all, you know, having a good time,

55:53

they're like, freaking Ray's, like, losing it,

55:56

man, not thinking it's that serious. And

55:58

so they called him, and they were

56:00

like, the game is starting, Ray, meet

56:02

me here, not knowing, like, not knowing

56:05

that he was actually suffering from something

56:07

mental. Yeah. And that he was just,

56:09

you know, a crazy conspiracy theorist. He

56:12

was just kind of going down a

56:14

path. He's a creative type. You know,

56:16

they can't believe that he believes this

56:19

shit kind of thing. And they're like,

56:21

let's mess with them. They're drunk. They're

56:23

all together. They're like finance frat bros.

56:26

They think it's going to be funny.

56:28

They're guffawing over there. And now that's

56:30

why nobody wants to sort of come

56:33

forward. stupid thing to do. But men

56:35

do this to each other. They with

56:37

each other. We talked about it in

56:40

the Karen Reed case about how the

56:42

Alberts like texted John O'Keefe and they

56:44

were like, ha ha, we're on your

56:46

yard. You know, and it's like just

56:49

this jabbing thing that they kind of

56:51

do. It's like men do this to

56:53

each other. So I almost wondered if

56:56

it was maybe something like that because

56:58

I think if Ray was struggling with

57:00

something, he was very emotionally He had

57:03

Allison, who's his wife, his best friend.

57:05

He has a very close relationship with

57:07

his brother, his sister, his parents. And

57:10

he has a handful of very close

57:12

friends that he does consult with, that

57:14

he confides in. So if he was

57:17

struggling with something mentally and emotionally that

57:19

he was aware of, such as bipolar,

57:21

where there would be times where he'd

57:24

come back out of it. I think

57:26

he would have communicated to the people

57:28

around him to get help. He's not,

57:30

he didn't seem like the sort of

57:33

person who'd be like, oh I'm a

57:35

man and I can't reveal these horrible

57:37

things that are happening to me, I

57:40

have to appear strong, I can't show

57:42

weakness. He didn't seem to be like

57:44

that. He would have at least told

57:47

Allison, like, hey I'm really struggling here,

57:49

like something's going on, and she would

57:51

have encouraged him to go to get

57:54

a doctor to get checked out to

57:56

get help, because she cared. about him.

57:58

She loved him. Do we know if

58:01

Allison ever saw any type of shift

58:03

in his personality at any point where

58:05

things? Yeah, just that paranoia like in

58:08

that that where he would follow her

58:10

everywhere he wanted to go he felt

58:12

like she wasn't safe and then how

58:14

scared he got when the alarms went

58:17

off things like that but no like

58:19

nothing where she was like I'm really

58:21

concerned like this doesn't seem to be

58:24

normal or good it's suggesting something's something

58:26

deeper is happening. She said he was

58:28

just a little bit more on edge.

58:31

All right, so at the end of

58:33

the day, there is no definitive proof

58:35

that Ray Rivera authored the note as

58:38

it was typed rather than handwritten, which

58:40

makes handwriting comparison impossible. Some believe it

58:42

may have been written by someone else

58:45

who wanted it to appear as if

58:47

Ray had written it. One notable thing

58:49

that is pointed out is the use

58:52

of the word recompensate, which it's not

58:54

a real word. Like we can say

58:56

it and we can understand what it

58:58

means. but it's not a real word.

59:01

It's not a word in the English

59:03

language, which is something that Ray and

59:05

Avid Writer would likely have known. I

59:08

do wonder some points if he had

59:10

copy and pasted this from somewhere that

59:12

we just, like different chunks from different

59:15

places and kind of made like this

59:17

hodgepodge and just put it all together.

59:19

I don't know. There's so many variables

59:22

here. Well, the note also includes a

59:24

list of raised family members and this

59:26

seemingly reinforces the idea that the request

59:29

for them to be made five years

59:31

younger came from him. However, once again,

59:33

there is no way. to verify this.

59:36

Despite its cryptic nature, one thing is

59:38

certain, the note is unsettling and at

59:40

first glance appears random. Now Ray's wife

59:43

Allison mentioned that he would frequently jot

59:45

down thoughts and screenplay ideas like a

59:47

stream of consciousness kind of writing, but

59:49

she described that when he did this

59:52

his writings were more structured and made

59:54

more sense than this note. Additionally, she

59:56

said he had never before shrunk his

59:59

writings down and taped them to his

1:00:01

computer or anywhere else. which could suggest

1:00:03

an attempt to hide it. Many speculate

1:00:06

that the note contains a coded message,

1:00:08

though decoding it would be a complex

1:00:10

task. As I mentioned before, both the

1:00:13

Baltimore Police and the FBI examined the

1:00:15

note. They determined it was not a

1:00:17

suicide note. The FBI report suggests that

1:00:20

its themes and specific languages were consistent

1:00:22

with someone experiencing delusional disorder or bipolar

1:00:24

disorder. And they do say that the

1:00:27

letters consistent, but they also mentioned that.

1:00:29

Everything else going on in Ray's life

1:00:31

were not consistent with that. They had

1:00:33

outlined the criteria that Ray would have

1:00:36

needed to have met a diagnosis for

1:00:38

delusional disorder, including experiencing non-bazaar delusions lasting

1:00:40

a month or more, brief mood episodes

1:00:43

that coincided with delusional periods, and the

1:00:45

ability to function well in most areas

1:00:47

of life despite the disorder. This is

1:00:50

interesting because of all the things that

1:00:52

you would think that was the one

1:00:54

that fit, because most of Ray's... family,

1:00:57

friends, coworkers, any signs that he was

1:00:59

having a mental break or he was

1:01:01

having delusions or hallucinations, they went undetected.

1:01:04

But then the FBI report also states,

1:01:06

hey, this is super, super rare in

1:01:08

the age of onset is usually between

1:01:11

40 and 49, which obviously Ray was

1:01:13

younger than that. So it makes it

1:01:15

less likely that he had that. Now

1:01:17

that we've kind of covered all of

1:01:20

that, we need to go into the

1:01:22

possible theories. But before we do, we're

1:01:24

going to take a quick break. In

1:01:28

the world of true crime, bad habits

1:01:30

usually lead to bad outcomes, but in

1:01:33

real life, it doesn't have to be

1:01:35

that way. That's where fume comes in.

1:01:37

Fume is a flavored air device, not

1:01:39

a vape, and definitely not a pipe,

1:01:41

that gives you a fresh way to

1:01:43

take control of your habits. And with

1:01:45

flavors like crisp mint, black licorish, and

1:01:47

peach blush, it's the smarter, guilt-free alternative.

1:01:49

I got my fume right here by

1:01:51

here, by the little clicks. Yeah,

1:01:54

satisfying. Now I will say that

1:01:57

there's lots of great flavors. I

1:01:59

love the fruitier flavor, so I'm

1:02:01

not a huge black licorice fan,

1:02:03

just because in general, I don't

1:02:05

like that flavor, and I do

1:02:08

think that these fume cores are

1:02:10

very true to flavor, but the

1:02:12

peach blush is really good. There's

1:02:14

another one, it tastes like an

1:02:17

orange creamsicle, so they're excellent, they're

1:02:19

refreshing, it's just flavored air. So

1:02:21

these are things you can even

1:02:23

use inside, they're not gonna offend

1:02:26

anybody, they smell good, like I

1:02:28

can describe. So it's going to

1:02:30

sort of make that oral fixation

1:02:32

have that met without you causing

1:02:34

issues to your health. So tell

1:02:36

them how they can check fume

1:02:38

out for themselves. I got you

1:02:40

covered. Fume has already helped over

1:02:42

400,000 people take steps toward better

1:02:44

habits. And now it's your turn.

1:02:46

To kick off the new year,

1:02:48

use our code Crime Weekly to

1:02:50

get a free gift with your

1:02:52

journey pack. All you have to

1:02:54

do is head to try fume.com.

1:02:56

Use our code Crime Weekly, that's

1:02:58

all one word, Crime Weekly, to

1:03:00

clean your limited time offer today.

1:03:03

Go check them out. Try

1:03:05

fume.com. All right, we're back.

1:03:07

So theory one. Was Ray Rivera

1:03:09

suffering from delusions or a mental

1:03:11

health disorder that led to his

1:03:13

death? One theory surrounding the mysterious

1:03:15

death of Ray Rivera is that

1:03:17

he was experiencing delusions or an

1:03:19

undiagnosed mental health condition such

1:03:21

as bipolar disorder which may have

1:03:24

contributed to his apparent suicide? This

1:03:26

perspective suggests that he jumped from

1:03:28

an unknown location and then crashed

1:03:31

through the Belvedere Hotel's roof. Several

1:03:33

factors in race behavior before his

1:03:35

death suggest he may have been

1:03:37

struggling with paranoia and disorganized thinking.

1:03:40

His final note, for example, alternates

1:03:42

between referencing real people he knew

1:03:44

and famous individuals that he did

1:03:47

not personally know. He wrote about

1:03:49

people being made younger by five years

1:03:51

and others being brought back to life

1:03:53

to rejoin the group. Additionally, he frequently

1:03:55

mentioned the game, though he never explained

1:03:58

what that game was. He also seemed

1:04:00

to believe he owned lavish properties around

1:04:02

the world and he was about to

1:04:04

receive a great sum of money from

1:04:06

his various inventions, a belief that, at

1:04:09

least to us, does not seem to

1:04:11

align with reality. These statements could suggest

1:04:13

a break from reality potentially linked to

1:04:15

delusional thinking or mania. Ray's wife Allison

1:04:17

also noted a significant shift in his

1:04:19

personality after she arrived in Baltimore. He

1:04:22

was no longer the happy easygoing man

1:04:24

she'd always known. Instead he appeared withdrawn,

1:04:26

distracted, anxious, on edge. She initially attributed

1:04:28

these changes to his dissatisfaction with his

1:04:30

job. But what if the personality shift

1:04:32

was actually due to an emerging mental

1:04:35

illness, which would actually be supported by

1:04:37

the fact that after he left Stansbury

1:04:39

Research and started his own company, he

1:04:41

was still experiencing some of these mood

1:04:43

shifts, although a lot of people that

1:04:45

he had previously worked with, when he

1:04:48

would do like outside jobs for them,

1:04:50

said, oh, Ray seems like a different

1:04:52

person, he's no longer withdrawn, he no

1:04:54

longer seems unhappy, he seems way happier

1:04:56

now. Additionally, Ray displayed increasing paranoia in

1:04:58

the weeks leading up to his death.

1:05:01

He insisted on accompanying Allison during her

1:05:03

runs, became visibly distressed when he saw

1:05:05

an unfamiliar man approach her while she

1:05:07

jogged. But while these behaviors could point

1:05:09

to mental health struggles, they could also

1:05:12

indicate that Ray at least believed he

1:05:14

had a real reason to fear for

1:05:16

his life or the life of the

1:05:18

people around him. if he had inadvertently

1:05:20

uncovered something dangerous or was in trouble

1:05:22

with powerful individuals his paranoia could have

1:05:25

been entirely justified. It's also important to

1:05:27

note that his home security system was

1:05:29

triggered on two consecutive nights and the

1:05:31

window in their master bedroom was damaged.

1:05:33

Physical evidence that suggests external threats rather

1:05:35

than a purely internal struggle. Now I

1:05:38

was thinking about this too and I

1:05:40

remember a movie and I cannot remember

1:05:42

what maybe it was fight club. And

1:05:44

you've obviously seen fight club right where

1:05:46

Edward Norton is sort of like Has

1:05:48

has two has split personalities kind of?

1:05:51

of and he's doing things while he's

1:05:53

the only character in the movie. Yes.

1:05:55

Well he's doing things while in one

1:05:57

personality that when he shifts back to

1:05:59

his other he does not remember doing.

1:06:01

Is it possible that Ray was that

1:06:04

bad where he was setting off the

1:06:06

alarms, where he was tampering with the

1:06:08

bedroom window, not to prove that he

1:06:10

had something to worry about or not

1:06:12

to like prove to other people that

1:06:15

he had something to worry about, but

1:06:17

that he was doing these things almost

1:06:19

to like support his own delusions and

1:06:21

his own paranoia? to give his brain

1:06:23

a valid reason for being afraid? You

1:06:25

can even point that towards the call.

1:06:28

Scheduling something to go off to make

1:06:30

an automated call to him where he's

1:06:32

like, right, I'm on it. And he

1:06:34

has to leave the house because he's

1:06:36

trying to set up an alibi to

1:06:38

leave and go, that's the problem with

1:06:41

this case, right? We're trying to solve

1:06:43

a puzzle with like 30% of the

1:06:45

pieces. If we were flying the wall

1:06:47

and we got the opportunity to witness

1:06:49

Ray's behavior when nobody was watching, maybe

1:06:51

we would be able to come to

1:06:54

a more. accurate conclusion, but there's just

1:06:56

so many hypotheticals because we don't have

1:06:58

everything we need. And unfortunately, as you

1:07:00

continue through these theories, we know that

1:07:02

law enforcement doesn't have everything they need

1:07:04

either, which is why they're sitting here

1:07:07

with their hands under their ass. I

1:07:09

don't think that he could have made

1:07:11

that call from the switchboard. I really,

1:07:13

I don't, because how do you schedule

1:07:15

it here? He wasn't an employee there

1:07:18

anymore. coming from an outside line i

1:07:20

don't know i don't know again i'm

1:07:22

not suggesting it i'm saying if it

1:07:24

was possible that could explain the phone

1:07:26

call why it's wrapping up my head

1:07:28

so much because listen if you're to

1:07:31

believe this theory then you have to

1:07:33

also believe that that phone call was

1:07:35

in fact just a nothing burger it

1:07:37

was just something that was coincidental the

1:07:39

person on the other end could have

1:07:41

said hey Just don't forget to do

1:07:44

that paperwork. And maybe they didn't come

1:07:46

forward for some of the reasons you

1:07:48

suggested. They just don't want to be

1:07:50

implicated in anything. It could have been

1:07:52

completely innocent. And yet, Ray interpreted it

1:07:54

as the code word. That's my signal.

1:07:57

Now it's time to act. They're calling.

1:07:59

a secret meeting. This wasn't a call

1:08:01

about my due date from my write,

1:08:03

my article. This was about the society.

1:08:05

This is my initiation. I have to

1:08:07

go to this location at this time.

1:08:10

Again, it sounds crazy even when I

1:08:12

say it out loud. This is when

1:08:14

it all culminates. It's everything I've been

1:08:16

dealing with this past year or six

1:08:18

months. This is when it all culminates.

1:08:20

It comes to a hand. Exactly. and

1:08:22

I won't have to deal with any

1:08:24

of the stuff anymore and it's going

1:08:27

to be beautiful roses and my family

1:08:29

and all the people that have died

1:08:31

like Tom Hickling will be there to

1:08:33

agree with champagne. Yep. Yep. Ray, just

1:08:35

need that. Don't forget your deadline. I'm

1:08:37

on it. Click. He interprets it completely

1:08:39

different. And you know, why didn't this

1:08:41

person come forward? They should have. If

1:08:43

they're listening or watching this episode, but

1:08:46

human nature. Oh, they're already accusing Porter

1:08:48

of doing porter of doing this. He's

1:08:50

like, I'm not going to put any

1:08:52

more fuel on the fire. Yeah. Oh,

1:08:54

I'm going to admit that it was

1:08:56

me that called for something totally innocent

1:08:58

when they think I killed this guy?

1:09:00

Yeah. I can understand it. No, I

1:09:02

can too, obviously. And since the police

1:09:05

have already said, there's no way to

1:09:07

determine where this call came from. Yeah.

1:09:09

Why would I say it? Why would

1:09:11

I come forward? Right. So another critical

1:09:13

details that Ray had made future plans.

1:09:15

The same day he disappeared, he'd booked

1:09:17

a recording suite for later that week.

1:09:19

If he was planning to end his

1:09:21

life, why would he have made that

1:09:24

kind of commitment? Furthermore, Ellison and Ray

1:09:26

had listed their house for sale. They

1:09:28

were preparing to move back to California

1:09:30

so he could focus on selling Midnight

1:09:32

Polo, which is a screenplay he'd written.

1:09:34

He just finished it. He was very

1:09:36

proud of it. They also had an

1:09:38

upcoming trip to New Mexico planned just

1:09:40

weeks later. If the official explanation is

1:09:43

to be believed, Ray went from a

1:09:45

hopeful man with a vision for his

1:09:47

future. to someone who suddenly decided to

1:09:49

take his own life, all in a

1:09:51

matter of hours. One of the biggest

1:09:53

holes in the official story is that

1:09:55

no one has really been able to

1:09:57

determine where Ray could have jumped from

1:10:00

in order to land where his body

1:10:02

was found. The only feasible location was

1:10:04

the 11th floor ledge of the Belvedere

1:10:06

Hotel. That would have made it the

1:10:08

easiest for him to get where he

1:10:10

was. However, unsolved mysteries and independent investigation

1:10:12

have noted that this leg is thin,

1:10:14

highly decorative, very difficult to navigate. We

1:10:16

talked about that. How the hell did

1:10:19

he even get out there? Because those

1:10:21

windows don't open fully. While some argue

1:10:23

that Ray could have maneuvered onto it,

1:10:25

the bigger question would remain. Why? Even

1:10:27

if he was experiencing a mental break,

1:10:29

why would he choose this method? If

1:10:31

he were truly suicidal, like he wanted

1:10:33

to end his life, wouldn't he have

1:10:35

selected a more accessible and less complicated

1:10:38

way to end his life? And as

1:10:40

I've talked about, some have drawn parallels

1:10:42

between Ray's death and the 1997 film,

1:10:44

The Game, in which the protagonist experiences

1:10:46

an elaborate psychological ordeal that blurs the

1:10:48

line between reality and fiction. Given Ray's

1:10:50

obsession with the game, could he have

1:10:52

internalized a similar narrative? If he was

1:10:54

having a manic or delusional episode, did

1:10:57

he believe his life had become part

1:10:59

of some grand game? Now, despite the

1:11:01

suicide theory and the initial and kind

1:11:03

of official ruling of the Baltimore police,

1:11:05

that this was suicide. Ray's family staunchly

1:11:07

rejects the idea that he took his

1:11:09

own life. His mother Maria Rivera has

1:11:11

stated, quote, I knew because of my

1:11:14

own observations of his behavior and because

1:11:16

of the things that came out of

1:11:18

his mouth. When anyone we knew was

1:11:20

depressed, Ray was the one who would

1:11:22

help them, talk to them and give

1:11:24

them reasons to live. And not only

1:11:26

was Ray afraid of heights, but he'd

1:11:28

never gotten over his fear of death.

1:11:30

We had many conversations about it. End

1:11:33

quote. Friends have also echoed the sentiment.

1:11:35

A church friend described Ray as always

1:11:37

happy, another friend Cynthia, whom he met

1:11:39

on a flight on a flight. felt

1:11:41

that Ray's death never made sense. Even

1:11:43

Porter Stansbury, as we know, his close

1:11:45

friend and employer, described Ray as a

1:11:47

happy, positive person, not someone who seemed

1:11:49

like he wanted to die. You know,

1:11:52

this is something where I think me

1:11:54

being more of a pragmatic person, this

1:11:56

is what I lean towards. And you

1:11:58

know, I say suicide in the sense

1:12:00

it wasn't a suicide, but by definition

1:12:02

it would be a suicide if he

1:12:04

killed himself, right, with no external forces.

1:12:06

I'm more talking about the intent of

1:12:08

the intent of the jump. I don't

1:12:11

think that if he jumped, he was

1:12:13

doing it to end his life because

1:12:15

he just didn't want to live anymore.

1:12:17

He had some things going wrong, we

1:12:19

all do, he had some pressures on

1:12:21

him, but it appeared that he was

1:12:23

setting himself up for future occasions with

1:12:25

Allison and had plans going on and

1:12:27

had some positive things that appeared to

1:12:30

be trending in the right direction. The

1:12:32

mind is a powerful thing, it controls

1:12:34

everything else. and it's scary to think

1:12:36

that that can that can basically mislead

1:12:38

you and that it can play tricks

1:12:40

on you and it happens to everybody

1:12:42

at different levels as well and we've

1:12:44

seen how bad it can affect someone's

1:12:47

life perfectly sound people who have everything

1:12:49

going and then all of a sudden

1:12:51

within a year or two they're living

1:12:53

on the streets because they just can't

1:12:55

they can't get out of them they're

1:12:57

trapped in their own body and it's

1:12:59

extremely unfortunate to to witness because as

1:13:01

you mentioned those people can almost feel

1:13:03

that they're basically a prisoner in their

1:13:06

own mind, and that's why they choose

1:13:08

to take their life, because they would

1:13:10

rather be dead than deal with that

1:13:12

every day, and that's what's so sad.

1:13:14

So I think Ray probably got to

1:13:16

a point where he wasn't considering taking

1:13:18

his own life, he actually thought he

1:13:20

was accomplishing something. He thought that he

1:13:22

was actually getting to a place that

1:13:25

he ultimately wanted to be, and in

1:13:27

reality, it was just something that was

1:13:29

being made up in his brain. When

1:13:31

you try to put a rational explanation

1:13:33

as to why they occurred, if an

1:13:35

irrational person was creating them, it makes

1:13:37

it that much more difficult. Yeah, and

1:13:39

I tend to lean, well, my theory,

1:13:41

we're going to discuss last. Right, right.

1:13:44

But if it wasn't that, it was

1:13:46

this. That's where I'm at. This is

1:13:48

theory number two, right? All right, so

1:13:50

no, my theory is not theory number

1:13:52

two. Okay, so this is a second

1:13:54

theory. This is not the one that

1:13:56

you're leaning towards. Yes, correct. So theory

1:13:58

number two asked the question, was Ray

1:14:00

Rivera murdered and was Porter Stansbury or

1:14:03

Agora involved? One of the most. widely

1:14:05

discussed theories in Ray Rivera's case is

1:14:07

that he was murdered and that his

1:14:09

longtime friend and employer Porter Stansbury or

1:14:11

someone else from Agora was involved. This

1:14:13

theory is compelling for several reasons, particularly

1:14:15

the strange behavior of Agora employees, the

1:14:17

mysterious phone call that led to raise

1:14:20

disappearance, and the suspicious handling of the

1:14:22

case by law enforcement. The last known

1:14:24

communication ray received before vanishing was a

1:14:26

phone call from the agora switchboard. Whoever

1:14:28

called him that evening remains unknown. The

1:14:30

content of the call is still a

1:14:32

mystery. However, what happened next only fueled

1:14:34

suspicion. After Ray's body was found, Agora

1:14:36

employees were instructed not to speak to

1:14:39

police about the case. When Unsolved Mysteries

1:14:41

began covering the story, Stansbury and his

1:14:43

associates sent a cease and desist letter

1:14:45

to the show's producers. When that failed,

1:14:47

they went a step further and hired

1:14:49

a crisis management team. An unusual move

1:14:51

for someone who claimed to be Ray's

1:14:53

best friend. Well, I think there's reasonable

1:14:55

explanations for this, but we're gonna talk

1:14:58

more about this theory. Let's take our

1:15:00

last break. We'll be right. We'll be

1:15:02

right back. So,

1:15:06

Every 26 seconds a burglary takes place

1:15:08

in the US according to FBI data.

1:15:11

That means by the time this podcast

1:15:13

ends dozens of homes will have been

1:15:15

targeted. But you can protect your home

1:15:17

before it's too late with Simply Safe's

1:15:20

proactive security system. Simply Safe helps to

1:15:22

stop threats before they even have a

1:15:24

chance to break in. So traditional security

1:15:26

systems only take action after someone has

1:15:29

already broken in and obviously that's too

1:15:31

late, but Simply Safe's active guard outdoor

1:15:33

protection can help prevent break-ins before. they

1:15:35

even happen. What I love about Simply

1:15:38

Safe is they trust their product enough

1:15:40

so that they're not tricking you into

1:15:42

a long-term contract. So there's no long-term

1:15:44

contracts, there's no cancellation fees, and monitoring

1:15:46

plans start affordably at around $1 a

1:15:49

day. Plus Simply Safe offers a 60-day

1:15:51

satisfaction guarantee or your money back and

1:15:53

Simply Safe has been named Best Home

1:15:55

Security System by US News and World

1:15:58

Report 5. years in a row, so

1:16:00

the proof is in the pudding, you

1:16:02

cannot deny that. And Derek's going to

1:16:04

tell you how you can check Simply

1:16:07

Save Out for yourself. That's right. You

1:16:09

know it's better than a security system?

1:16:11

A security system that works. And Simply

1:16:13

Save does just that. We talk about

1:16:16

systems failing in all these cases that

1:16:18

we cover all the time. Don't let

1:16:20

that be you. Visit simply safe.com/crime weekly

1:16:22

to claim 50% off your new system

1:16:25

with a professional monitoring plan and your

1:16:27

first month free. That simply safe.com/crime weekly,

1:16:29

there's no safe like simply safe. Are

1:16:34

you ready to optimize your nutrition this

1:16:37

year? Factor has chef-made gourmet meals that

1:16:39

make eating well easy. Their dietitian approved

1:16:41

and ready to heat and eat in

1:16:43

two minutes so it can feel right

1:16:46

and feel great no matter what life

1:16:48

throws at you. So it's funny because

1:16:50

I actually have factor every single week

1:16:52

deliver meals to my office because I

1:16:55

was getting sick of ordering food, it

1:16:57

was never healthy, I always felt terrible,

1:16:59

it was really adding up money-wise. So

1:17:01

factor really came in clutch for that.

1:17:03

And factor can help you feel your

1:17:06

feel your best. all day long with

1:17:08

wholesome smoothies, breakfast, grab and go snacks,

1:17:10

and more add-ons. My favorite add-ons are

1:17:12

the, they're like immunity shots, so I

1:17:15

have one that's ginger and turmeric and

1:17:17

they come in like a little shop

1:17:19

bottles and I keep them in the

1:17:21

refrigerator and I take one when I'm

1:17:23

feeling like I need a little pick

1:17:26

me up and they're really good as

1:17:28

well. So you can reach your goals

1:17:30

this year with ingredients, you can trust

1:17:32

and convenience that can't be beat and

1:17:35

Derek's gonna tell you how you how

1:17:37

you can check factor out for yourself.

1:17:39

Eat Smart with Factor. Get started at

1:17:41

factormeals.com/crime weekly 50 off and use code

1:17:43

crime weekly 50 off to get 50%

1:17:46

off your first box plus free shipping.

1:17:48

That's code crime weekly 50 off at

1:17:50

factormeals.com/crime weekly 50 off to get 50%

1:17:52

off. Go check it out. Okay,

1:17:57

we're back. So, at first, Remember, when

1:18:00

Ray went missing, Porter Stansbury seemed genuinely

1:18:02

concerned. He put out money for a

1:18:04

reward. He was talking to the press.

1:18:06

But after Ray's death, Porter's behavior changed

1:18:09

drastically. and allegedly he became uncooperative and

1:18:11

secretive. Why would someone who supposedly cared

1:18:13

so much about Ray suddenly go silent?

1:18:16

Adding to the suspicion, Porter's name appears

1:18:18

multiple times in the cryptic note found

1:18:20

taped to Ray's computer. The contents of

1:18:22

this note remain enigmatic, but if Ray

1:18:25

was writing about real events or people,

1:18:27

it could imply something deeper than just

1:18:29

an illusional episode. Now as far as

1:18:31

Porter standsbury's involvement, there is no proof

1:18:34

for evidence of it. And you could

1:18:36

absolutely say, because somebody like Porter Stansbury

1:18:38

is going to be very concerned about

1:18:40

public image and public perception, right? He's

1:18:43

going to know, hey, I'm out here

1:18:45

giving people financial advice, my job, my

1:18:47

career, everything, my livelihood depends on people,

1:18:50

like understanding that I'm trustworthy and reliable,

1:18:52

and I'm not like a bad or

1:18:54

nefarious person. So that may. kind of

1:18:56

explain why, especially if he was innocent,

1:18:59

he sent a deceased's letter to unsolved

1:19:01

mysteries, because he just didn't even want

1:19:03

them to explore the theory that he

1:19:05

was involved, because, as you know, it

1:19:08

doesn't really matter what you can prove.

1:19:10

It just kind of matters what people

1:19:12

think based on the theories. And a

1:19:14

lot of people did run with the

1:19:17

Porter-Stansbury theory, which would then, you know,

1:19:19

make it understandable why Stansbury associates and

1:19:21

research associates, his company. would hire a

1:19:24

crisis management team because they're like shit

1:19:26

somehow we got wrapped up in this

1:19:28

we've we've stayed silent we told employees

1:19:30

not to talk to the press not

1:19:33

to talk to anybody because we just

1:19:35

didn't want this to spiral and have

1:19:37

somebody say something that could be taken

1:19:39

the wrong way or picked apart or

1:19:42

misinterpreted we tried to stay really quiet

1:19:44

here and now it just feels like

1:19:46

we've lost control of this and this

1:19:49

is our reputation the company's reputation Porter's

1:19:51

reputation. Yeah, a lot of money on

1:19:53

the line. A lot of money on

1:19:55

the line. A lot of people's jobs

1:19:58

on the line. Yeah. Yeah, we had

1:20:00

talked before we recorded. We had someone

1:20:02

reach out who actually runs the Crime

1:20:04

Weekly discussion fan page on Facebook, Meredith,

1:20:07

and she mentioned that. And you had

1:20:09

known this as well, you kind of

1:20:11

concluded in your research that the prosecutors

1:20:13

had covered this case in 2020. I

1:20:16

think you covered around that same time

1:20:18

as well. And they had mentioned in

1:20:20

their episode that Stansbury Research, which is

1:20:23

what it was called at the time,

1:20:25

had actually reached out to them. It

1:20:27

wasn't technically a cease and desist, but

1:20:29

to your point, they had alluded to

1:20:32

the whole Netflix thing and the unsolved

1:20:34

mysteries thing and said, listen, there's a

1:20:36

lot of things that have been included

1:20:38

in these docu series series that aren't

1:20:41

true. and we advise you guys to

1:20:43

refer to the FBI reports and all

1:20:45

this stuff and you might say oh

1:20:47

he's trying to cover his tracks he's

1:20:50

trying to you know cover up the

1:20:52

truth no it could be exactly what

1:20:54

you're saying if he didn't have anything

1:20:57

to do with it and people are

1:20:59

putting out these false allegations it could

1:21:01

affect him his family and the people

1:21:03

that work for him exponentially so it's

1:21:06

only human nature to try to get

1:21:08

in front of that and on a

1:21:10

much lower level We even experience it

1:21:12

sometimes, right? Things can be taken out

1:21:15

of context and they can start to

1:21:17

grow a life of their own. And

1:21:19

all of a sudden people are canceling

1:21:22

you for something that you didn't even

1:21:24

say. But based on the telephone game,

1:21:26

now it's came, it's took on its

1:21:28

own life. So I understand it. And

1:21:31

I do think that sometimes as a

1:21:33

society, we tend to look at someone

1:21:35

defending themselves as a form of guilt.

1:21:37

And it's not. In some cases, it's

1:21:40

just because they want the truth out

1:21:42

there and they want the truth out

1:21:44

there and they're trying to prevent people

1:21:46

from spreading false allegations from spreading false

1:21:49

allegations. Could go one way or the

1:21:51

other, but yeah, I'm with you on

1:21:53

this one. I mean we've seen this

1:21:56

It's it's it's just once again, especially

1:21:58

with the era of social media Oh

1:22:00

Jesus yeah a rumor or an allegation

1:22:02

turns into the truth and facts Yep,

1:22:05

before like overnight and you're over here

1:22:07

being the person that's being discussed and

1:22:09

you're like I absolutely know that's not

1:22:11

the truth, but at that point. There's

1:22:14

not there's not even a purpose or

1:22:16

a productive reason to get involved and

1:22:18

defend yourself because now whatever you say

1:22:20

the people who've already developed this idea

1:22:23

about you they're not going to change.

1:22:25

They're not going to change. The problem

1:22:27

is the people listening to them as

1:22:30

if it's fact. I mean even with

1:22:32

traders like people are dissecting things that

1:22:34

we're not saying like oh Derek didn't

1:22:36

say this for this reason. It's because

1:22:39

of this and I'm I look at

1:22:41

the tweet and I'm like no But

1:22:43

then all of a sudden it's got

1:22:45

two thousand three thousand likes and people

1:22:48

like yes, yes, you're right and I'm

1:22:50

like I was just worrying about what

1:22:52

we were going to eat for lunch

1:22:55

that day. That's what I was doing.

1:22:57

I was just hungry. Yeah, and that's

1:22:59

absolutely fine. If you're a logical human

1:23:01

being who looks at what's going on

1:23:04

at like Twitter or read it or

1:23:06

the internet and you're like, oh, these

1:23:08

are just bored people who have too

1:23:10

much time on their hand. But if

1:23:13

you looked at it, like a jump

1:23:15

on that bandwagon and before you know

1:23:17

it, it's like this whole narrative exists.

1:23:19

Yeah. Why? Yeah, it's already off. The

1:23:22

wheels are already off the vehicle at

1:23:24

that point. So we get it there.

1:23:26

We're not saying Porter Stansbury did anything.

1:23:29

Now, did Ray think he was doing

1:23:31

something? Did Ray think he was malicious?

1:23:33

Yeah, something there. Yeah, of course. Yes,

1:23:35

that doesn't mean that he was. Just

1:23:38

means that maybe Ray had that perception

1:23:40

for whatever reason, whether it was a

1:23:42

mental illness, etc. So what you're telling

1:23:44

me right now. No, I don't. Okay,

1:23:47

progress. I looked more into that. You

1:23:49

almost like disappointed. No, I'm not disappointed,

1:23:51

but it's a cool theory. It's just

1:23:53

doesn't, it doesn't have legs once you

1:23:56

kind of, yeah. I mean, if you're

1:23:58

talking about separating yourself from a crime

1:24:00

that you don't want to be connected

1:24:03

to, strongly recommend you don't use your

1:24:05

own helicopter or a helicopter in general,

1:24:07

considering you're known. Yeah, a low flying

1:24:09

helicopter like that might, you know, raise

1:24:12

some. Yeah, I mean, it just wouldn't

1:24:14

make a lot of sense. There's other

1:24:16

ways you would do it in order

1:24:18

to disconnect yourself from the actual crime.

1:24:21

Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the biggest

1:24:23

inconsistencies in this case, though, is the

1:24:25

lack of eyewitnesses who saw Ray inside

1:24:28

the Belvedere Hotel on the night he

1:24:30

supposedly jumped or fell. No one recalled

1:24:32

seeing Ray enter the hotel. No surveillance

1:24:34

footage exists either because it was corrupted,

1:24:37

missing, or erased. If he'd gone out

1:24:39

onto the 11th floor ledge, even then

1:24:41

someone should have seen him, given the

1:24:43

busy nature of the hotel, the area

1:24:46

around it, its many visitors. The Baltimore

1:24:48

police report suggested that Ray was familiar

1:24:50

with the Belvedere, but his wife Allison

1:24:52

disputed this, saying that while they had

1:24:55

visited the owl bar a couple of

1:24:57

times, they had never been to the

1:24:59

13th floor nightclub or other areas of

1:25:02

the hotel. Could Ray have gone there

1:25:04

with co-workers from Agora? Possibly, their headquarters

1:25:06

were right on the corner, but if

1:25:08

Ray was such a frequent visitor, wouldn't

1:25:11

at least one employee have recognized him

1:25:13

walking around on the night of his

1:25:15

death? The medical examiner's findings further complicated

1:25:17

the case. Dr. Melissa Brazil, who conducted

1:25:20

the autopsy, did not provide a definitive

1:25:22

cause of death. Instead, she stated, quote,

1:25:24

injuries at the time of the autopsy

1:25:26

were consistent with the fall from a

1:25:29

height. Because the circumstances surrounding the incident

1:25:31

are clear, it is not known how

1:25:33

the deceased came to have precipitated from

1:25:36

a height. The manner of death has

1:25:38

been classified as undetermined. End quote, notably,

1:25:40

Dr. Brazel privately told Allison that she

1:25:42

quote, knew what they were doing, a

1:25:45

cryptic statement that some interpret as her

1:25:47

way of implying that the police were

1:25:49

trying to rush the case and rule

1:25:51

it a suicide. The doctor also noted

1:25:54

that the way raised legs were broken

1:25:56

was not entirely consistent with a typical

1:25:58

fall from a great height. Now, if

1:26:01

we look at the state of the

1:26:03

Baltimore Police Department and the ME's office

1:26:05

at this time, we might get some

1:26:07

answers as to why law enforcement may

1:26:10

have been rushing the case. and ruling

1:26:12

it a suicide without a thorough investigation.

1:26:14

In a post-by blogger Caleb Kaltenbach, we

1:26:16

get some interesting statistics. He writes that

1:26:19

when Ray died in 2006, That year,

1:26:21

276 of the 4,323 bodies autopsied by

1:26:23

the Baltimore Medical Examiner's Office were labeled

1:26:25

homicides. But that same year, the Baltimore

1:26:28

homicide rate was very high, 43.3% compared

1:26:30

to the national average homicide rate of

1:26:32

5.8%. Caleb writes quote, It is logical

1:26:35

to assume that in 2006, the number

1:26:37

of homicides could have overwhelmed the Baltimore

1:26:39

ME's office. For instance, when someone dies,

1:26:41

the medical examiner will label the death

1:26:44

as one of four causes. Natural, accident,

1:26:46

suicide, homicide, or obviously the fifth cause

1:26:48

would be undetermined. In 2004, about 10%

1:26:50

of Baltimore deaths were labeled undetermined by

1:26:53

the ME's office. In 2006, Baltimore's undetermined

1:26:55

deaths grew to 20%. Most major cities

1:26:57

have a few undetermined cases, but 10%

1:26:59

undetermined is high. According to forensic pathology

1:27:02

experts like Cyril Wecht, end quote, which

1:27:04

would make 20% very high, right? 20%

1:27:06

undetermined. And just like the Emmy's office

1:27:09

may have been overwhelmed with the number

1:27:11

of homicides, the police department was probably

1:27:13

in the same boat. There is also

1:27:15

the little issue of the police file

1:27:18

on the case being so hard to

1:27:20

get. There have been many FOIA requests

1:27:22

done, but no one ever gets the

1:27:24

file or the whole file. And if

1:27:27

they do receive something, it's just heavily

1:27:29

redacted loose papers. Well, you know why

1:27:31

that is, right? I mean, we can

1:27:34

just nip that one in the bud

1:27:36

right now, like it's because it's an

1:27:38

an open investigation. but because it's still

1:27:40

open, that's what they can always fall

1:27:43

back on. Even with a FOIA. Oh

1:27:45

yes. And somebody who's looked a lot

1:27:47

into this case, Stephen Janice, he tried

1:27:49

to get a hold of the file,

1:27:52

only to find through a police contact

1:27:54

that it wasn't where it should have

1:27:56

been, and the only copy was locked

1:27:58

in detective. Marvin Sidner's desk. Marvin Sidner

1:28:01

was a detective who took over for

1:28:03

Michael Bayer after he was reassigned. Stephen

1:28:05

Janus has deeply investigated Ray's case and

1:28:08

he found that there were no photographs

1:28:10

of the scene where Ray's body was

1:28:12

found. There was no diagram made of

1:28:14

the room where he was found. There

1:28:17

were no subpoenas for cell records or

1:28:19

Ray's cell phone records. and he spoke

1:28:21

to a homicide investigator who said that

1:28:23

there were no statements taken from anyone

1:28:26

even the three people who found the

1:28:28

hole in the roof now that's insane

1:28:30

right insane yeah and and i

1:28:32

will say as far as these files

1:28:34

when you're talking about them being in

1:28:37

a desk somewhere for one detective i've

1:28:39

mentioned it a million times police reports

1:28:41

are digitized for the most part

1:28:43

where they're typing their reports inside

1:28:45

a portal ours was called IMC where

1:28:48

you're typing the report, everyone's report goes

1:28:50

into that same portal, you log in

1:28:52

with your own username, so you can

1:28:54

technically go on there and print out

1:28:56

the quote unquote report, which will obtain

1:28:59

all the statements from everybody who's entered

1:29:01

them into IMC, but if there's like

1:29:03

handwritten witness statements or diagrams or. photos

1:29:05

that were taken and printed out and

1:29:08

they haven't been uploaded to IMC, which

1:29:10

by the way, that happens a lot,

1:29:12

half the report doesn't get uploaded. So

1:29:14

then there really is only one copy.

1:29:16

There's only one person who has access

1:29:19

to that complete folder. They're supposed

1:29:21

to be uploaded, everything to the IMC

1:29:23

portal, but it doesn't always happen.

1:29:25

And that creates bigger problems because

1:29:27

how many times, maybe not even

1:29:29

on crime weekly, have you said Oh, the

1:29:32

evidence or the reports were

1:29:34

in an evidence cabinet that

1:29:36

got flooded or a fire

1:29:38

happened. Well, guess what? If

1:29:40

it had been uploaded to

1:29:42

the portal, it's cloud-based. Yeah, it's

1:29:44

digitized, right? But they don't

1:29:46

do it. So the report

1:29:48

dies with that fire or

1:29:50

flood. That's the problem. So

1:29:52

that's the problem. So that

1:29:54

could be the case here where they

1:29:57

haven't uploaded it and basically

1:29:59

this. that you mentioned, nobody who has

1:30:01

access to the portal would know that

1:30:04

because this detective has the actual written

1:30:06

statement in his locked in his desk.

1:30:08

But why would he lock it in

1:30:10

his desk and not digitize it? Do

1:30:12

you want the honest answer? Well there's

1:30:14

got to be more than one honest

1:30:16

answer. It's got to go beyond, oh

1:30:19

just I'm too lazy to do it.

1:30:21

True, there's more than one, but in

1:30:23

my experience, laziness. I can't tell you

1:30:25

how many times I've yelled at my

1:30:27

guys for not to do it. Hey

1:30:29

listen, where's that narcotics report? We have

1:30:32

a trial come up in two weeks.

1:30:34

The defense attorney just requested the entire

1:30:36

report. I went to print it out

1:30:38

and it's missing half the things that

1:30:40

we did. Where is it? Oh, sorry,

1:30:42

sorry, Sarge. It's in my desk. I'll

1:30:45

get it uploaded today. That's the innocent

1:30:47

example. I think this is a different

1:30:49

scenario, though, because this case was, you

1:30:51

know, got national recognition. Oh, yeah. It

1:30:53

was a big mystery. People are writing

1:30:55

books about it. People are writing books

1:30:58

about it. You think mystery. People are

1:31:00

writing books about it. You'd think you

1:31:02

want to upload all of that. Just

1:31:04

to kind of take Michelle Norris. I

1:31:06

covered it on breaking homicide. That was

1:31:08

a case that over the years we

1:31:11

brought back out and had multiple people

1:31:13

look at. And that had gotten national

1:31:15

attention. And yet it wasn't until probably

1:31:17

my ninth or tenth year on the

1:31:19

job when we decided to pull everything

1:31:21

from her case out of storage that

1:31:23

we realized 70% of the report hadn't

1:31:26

been uploaded. So the first thing we

1:31:28

did as this new group was spend

1:31:30

weeks. organizing everything and digitizing it all

1:31:32

because nobody over the past 25 years

1:31:34

had done that and there was a

1:31:36

public outcry in that case so you're

1:31:39

right I have no argument but it

1:31:41

does still happen it's not right and

1:31:43

it may not even be the reason

1:31:45

or the motive behind this as you're

1:31:47

alluding to and because they haven't uploaded

1:31:49

it it creates that speculation about the

1:31:52

deeper meaning of potential conspiracies. with it.

1:31:54

I mean look at the black Dahlia

1:31:56

like the LAPD has that that file

1:31:58

like under lock and key. Another body

1:32:00

can see it and it just adds

1:32:02

to this conspiracy and the speculation that's

1:32:05

gone on for decades is like what

1:32:07

are you hiding? So another counterpoint that

1:32:09

you just brought up which is worth

1:32:11

noting. Here's the downside to the portal.

1:32:13

Okay. You can put measures on there

1:32:15

where only certain people can open that

1:32:17

portal but you could have someone. access

1:32:20

the portal for a high profile case

1:32:22

that gets paid off by the media

1:32:24

or an out news outlet and they

1:32:26

print out that report even though they're

1:32:28

not working on that case because they

1:32:30

got paid 10 grand to do so

1:32:33

so that is the argument that some

1:32:35

will make that when it's in the

1:32:37

portal everyone has access to it but

1:32:39

it's not a good enough reason you

1:32:41

have to upload it because at the

1:32:43

end of the day like Yeah, this

1:32:46

happened in 2006. It is 2025. So

1:32:48

what if somebody gets it? Y'all, what

1:32:50

if somebody gets it? Y'all know you're

1:32:52

not acting actively working on it. That's

1:32:54

all know you're not doing shit with

1:32:56

it. So what if somebody gets it?

1:32:59

You said it was a suicide. Why

1:33:01

would you care if somebody got it?

1:33:03

Correct. Yeah, I'm with you. And also

1:33:05

reportedly, there was a person in the

1:33:07

parking garage just adjacent to the hotel

1:33:09

who had been in touch with the

1:33:12

police. allegedly never followed up with this

1:33:14

person. So it's kind of like they

1:33:16

thought suicide. This is what it is.

1:33:18

We got like our freaking homicide rate

1:33:20

is spiked up to 40% right now.

1:33:22

It's crazy. We have a lot going

1:33:24

on. We don't have time to pursue

1:33:27

this in the way we would if

1:33:29

we thought there was foul play. So

1:33:31

we're just gonna say there's no foul

1:33:33

play. Yeah, yeah, I'm not good. Now

1:33:35

as I mentioned the last episode, my

1:33:37

personal theory is that Ray was somehow

1:33:40

alert to the top of the parking

1:33:42

garage next to the Belvedere hotel. If

1:33:44

Ray jumped or fell, why were his

1:33:46

injuries more consistent with being hit by

1:33:48

a car? One of the biggest contradictions

1:33:50

in the case is the nature of

1:33:53

Ray Rivera's injuries. Medical experts suggest that

1:33:55

his wounds do not aligned with those

1:33:57

typically seen in a high altitude fall.

1:33:59

Instead, they bear more resemblance to the

1:34:01