0:11

This episode may

0:13

contain content of

0:16

a graphic nature,

0:18

including descriptions

0:22

of physical and

0:25

sexual violence

0:27

against adults,

0:30

children, and

0:32

animals. Listener

0:35

discretion is advised.

0:37

And we are Crimes

0:39

and Consequences, a hardcore

0:42

true crime podcast. Hey Shannon.

0:44

Hey Tanya, how are you?

0:46

I am doing good today. It's

0:48

a Friday. It is Friday and

0:50

it's so nice out little chilly,

0:52

but the weather report at the

0:55

beginning of every episode that we

0:57

have, because we do speak weather

0:59

quite a bit. It affects my

1:01

mood. Yeah, exactly. It affects my

1:03

moods. Like at the beginning of

1:05

the week, I was so depressed

1:07

and it's because of this weather,

1:09

I'm telling you, I can't wait

1:12

for spring because like, okay, I'm

1:14

deeply wallowing in my seasonal depression.

1:16

And we had beautiful weather on

1:18

Wednesday where it was like 70

1:20

degrees and that just gives me

1:23

a little hope and it kind of

1:25

digs me out of that hole and here

1:27

we are. and hopefully it will be here

1:29

soon so yeah I'm doing good though

1:31

otherwise you know the weekends coming it's

1:33

always a good time when it's the

1:35

weekend don't have to worry about work

1:38

or get up early and whatever and the

1:40

time with you now so exactly a Friday

1:42

afternoon with the gals and I do know

1:44

what you mean about the Wednesday good

1:47

weather I was so sensitive to the

1:49

weather like it's sunny and I'm

1:51

like I am gonna work out

1:53

I'm going on a brisk walk

1:55

I'm going to do that at

1:57

7 o'clock at night and I've

1:59

done nothing. changes because the weather is

2:01

nice. You know, there truly isn't enough hours

2:03

in the day. No. You know, you got

2:06

to get shit done and then you want

2:08

to have time to do what you want

2:10

to do and that's curtailed to about 20

2:12

minutes. But... So I have a good story

2:14

today. It's an older one. I do like

2:17

the older ones. I find them really interesting.

2:19

It's from the 30s. So it's almost 100

2:21

years ago. But before I get into it,

2:23

I just would like to remind everyone to

2:25

hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever

2:28

app you're listening to. So I am just

2:30

going to get into it. I'm going to

2:32

tell you a story about William Herbert Wallace.

2:34

He was the oldest of three siblings and

2:36

he was born in 1878. William's family was

2:39

quite well off and he had an enjoyable

2:41

childhood. William was a very smart boy as

2:43

well and he actually jumped ahead in school

2:45

when he was five years old. By the

2:47

young age of 14, William began working to

2:50

earn an apprenticeship as a draper or someone

2:52

who sold clothing. This job allowed William to

2:54

see the world. He even lived in India

2:56

and China for a few years while he

2:58

was in his 20s. His world travels came

3:01

to an end and brought him back to

3:03

England after he was having health issues regarding

3:05

his kidneys. In 1906, William resigned from his

3:07

job, moved back to England, and had his

3:09

left kidney removed. This really put William's life

3:12

on hold for a few years, and it

3:14

wasn't until 1911 that William started working again

3:16

for the Liberal Party as an election agent.

3:18

This new job brought William to Yorkshire, and

3:20

he was really suffering with loss, heartbreak, and

3:23

just overall sadness from the troubles and obstacles

3:25

he was encountering in his life. But in

3:27

1911, William was also lucky enough to meet

3:29

a woman and fall in love. Julia Dennis

3:31

was born in 1861 to loving parents and

3:34

in William George Dennis. Julia was the second

3:36

oldest of six siblings and in 1871, while

3:38

giving birth to the seventh dentist child, her

3:40

mother passed away. Up until this point, the

3:42

dentist's own and ran a very successful farm

3:45

in the area where they lived, but William

3:47

George had to give up the family farm

3:49

after the death of his wife. During this

3:51

time, William George really leaned into his drinking

3:53

habit and was becoming a full-blown alcoholic. I

3:56

like how you said, you really leaned into

3:58

it. You really leaned into it. Nice, nice.

4:00

Sure, I love it. In 1873, William George

4:02

became the innkeeper at a place called the

4:04

Railway Inn, which unbeknownst to him would be

4:07

the last job he would ever have. By

4:09

1875, William George died of liver disease. Surprise,

4:11

surprise. And Julia, who was now just a

4:13

teenager in 1875 and one of the oldest

4:15

of her siblings, she got a job working

4:18

as an assistant governess at the Kenswick House

4:20

Ladies' School in London. As a governess, she

4:22

was someone who provided education and child care

4:24

to families. The Kenswick House was also home

4:26

to Robert and Charlotte Smith's three children. Maud,

4:29

Matilda, and Rose, like what great name? I

4:31

love them, yes. And three other kids who

4:33

were borders in the home. So essentially they

4:35

had a little boarding school situation going on

4:37

and Charlotte was the head governess and Julia

4:40

got hired as her assistant to help with

4:42

the children. And being a governess was a

4:44

common job during that time period and even

4:46

Julia's two biological younger sisters worked as governesses

4:48

in other homes. After spending nearly a decade

4:51

at the Kenswick House Lady School. Julia left

4:53

London and moved to Yorkshire and was a

4:55

governess at another home called Elm House. At

4:57

Elm House, she worked for a family who

4:59

also had the same last name of Smith.

5:02

Robert, John, and Sophia

5:04

Smith, and their children,

5:06

Sarah, Sophia, Claude, and

5:08

Robert. Julia worked for

5:11

the Smith family at

5:13

Elmhouse for many years

5:15

until seemingly leaving, governessing

5:17

altogether and moving back

5:19

to London into her

5:22

own flat for a

5:24

few years before again

5:26

going back to Yorkshire.

5:28

In Yorkshire, Julia's sister

5:30

Annie would stay with

5:33

her for a few

5:35

years and Julia would

5:37

actually become the landlord

5:39

of one of the

5:41

buildings that she lived.

5:44

Now here's where things

5:46

get fishy. Okay, so

5:48

give you a little

5:50

bit of background. In

5:52

1911, a census was

5:55

taken and on one

5:57

of the documents taken,

5:59

the name Miss Dennis

6:01

is listed and on

6:03

the other, Jane Dennis

6:06

is listed. Both documents

6:08

have the same listed

6:10

address, but the birth

6:12

dates are different. The

6:14

birthday listed for Miss

6:17

Dennis is the actual

6:19

birthday of Julia Dennis,

6:21

which was April 28th,

6:23

1861. And for those

6:25

of us who are

6:28

not good at math

6:30

in 1911, Julia would

6:32

have been 50 years

6:34

old. The census with

6:36

Jane Dennis listed and

6:39

said that Julia was

6:41

only 32 years old.

6:43

Either way, Julia had

6:45

really come into herself

6:47

by 1911 and she

6:50

possessed many talents and

6:52

hobbies, especially in the

6:54

arts. Julia could speak

6:56

fluent French. She did

6:58

watercolor paintings and also

7:01

was a talented singer

7:03

and pianist. It was

7:05

said that her home

7:07

was just filled with

7:09

the most beautiful watercolor

7:12

paintings that she had

7:14

done herself. Some describe

7:16

Julia as shy and

7:18

timid while others saw

7:20

her as extremely prideful

7:23

and honestly kind of

7:25

weird. So in 1911,

7:27

Julia owned the flat

7:29

that she lived in

7:31

and life seemed pretty

7:34

good. William and Julia,

7:36

remember I told you

7:38

about William earlier, they

7:40

lived just two blocks

7:42

from each other. So

7:45

they were bound across

7:47

paths eventually. And when

7:49

they did, their relationship

7:51

quickly flourished. William spoke

7:53

about Julia as if

7:56

she truly made him

7:58

a better man. The pair

8:00

had tons of things in common,

8:02

including a love for music, the

8:05

English countryside, and literature. During their

8:07

time dating, William's mother passed away,

8:09

and there's no doubt that William

8:11

leaned on Julia during that difficult

8:13

time. The couple got married in

8:15

1914 and together William and Julia

8:18

loved to host friends over and

8:20

and the night with music in

8:22

their parlor, as William was a

8:24

novice violinist and Julia could sing

8:26

and play piano. Seemingly the only

8:28

thing the couple didn't do together

8:31

was go to church because William

8:33

was more agnostic where Julia was

8:35

active in their local church and

8:37

she didn't mind going to services

8:39

alone. Now we know that

8:41

Julia was significantly older than

8:43

William and she was lying to

8:46

him about it. William who was born

8:48

in 1878 was only 35 years old

8:50

in 1913 and Julia would have been

8:52

52. Another strange thing Julia did

8:54

was that on their marriage license

8:57

she listed that her father was

8:59

a veterinary surgeon when we know

9:01

for a fact that he was

9:03

a farmer and a drunk who

9:06

died. Right. Like a weird thing

9:08

to lie about but unless you

9:10

know some embellishments here right right

9:12

you know it sounded sexy I

9:14

guess. Williams sister Jesse and the

9:16

couple's neighbor Jay S. Allinson signed

9:18

the marriage license as witnesses. Since

9:21

meeting Julia, William had continued to

9:23

work for the Liberal Party as

9:25

an election agent, but in 1914,

9:27

the entire world changed forever with

9:29

the start of World War I.

9:31

William tried and failed six plus times

9:33

to fight in the war, but due to

9:35

his single kidney, he was never going to

9:37

qualify to fight. It's clear that this fact

9:39

took a toll on him as he continued

9:42

to try and join the armed forces. Finally

9:44

accepting his fate, William settled on

9:47

taking an insurance agent job in

9:49

Liverpool. William and Julia moved to

9:51

the place they would call home, which

9:53

was located in an area of Liverpool

9:55

called Clubmore. Clubmore was considered to

9:58

be a relatively poor neighborhood. Being

10:00

an insurance agent was not what William

10:02

wanted his career to be. He had

10:04

a passion for the sciences and had

10:07

a dream of one day making a

10:09

scientific discovery that would change mankind forever.

10:11

So much so that he turned one

10:13

of the upstairs bedrooms in their home

10:15

into a laboratory. Also on the side,

10:18

William earned an education from the Liverpool

10:20

Technical College and started lecturing there about

10:22

electricity and chemistry. In 1922, William and

10:24

his friend, neighbor James started a chess

10:27

club and that was something William was

10:29

passionate about as well. For 15 years,

10:31

William and Julia really just settled into

10:33

what was seemingly a normal life for

10:36

a couple in the 1900s. Julia went

10:38

to church, William went to chess, and

10:40

they of course continued to have their

10:42

parties that ended in music. Neighbors of

10:44

the Wallace's stated... that they really were

10:47

a devoted couple and after nearly two

10:49

decades of living by them they had

10:51

never heard as much as a verbal

10:53

disagreement between the two. Both Julia and

10:56

William were very drawn to intellectual pursuits

10:58

rather than social pursuits. Once they were

11:00

married their social lives dwindled and the

11:02

couple spent most of their time with

11:04

Williams' brother, his wife and their son.

11:07

Julia would sometimes stay after church for

11:09

a cup of tea but was often

11:11

eager to get home to her husband.

11:13

Some of the women in their congregation

11:16

believe that William had Julia under lock

11:18

and key. While others just believe that

11:20

this was the life that they both

11:22

chose to live and they were content

11:25

with it. It was obvious that amongst

11:27

all the hobbies and interests chess was

11:29

the one that William enjoyed the most.

11:31

In 1931 William was part of a

11:33

chess club. Even though it seemed that

11:36

William loved chess a lot, he was

11:38

reportedly really bad at it. But still,

11:40

this was a community he was part

11:42

of and he knew the other local

11:45

chess players for nearly a decade at

11:47

this point. I don't know how to

11:49

play chess, do you? I do. I

11:51

do. I'm not good at it either.

11:54

No. I've been known to flip a

11:56

board and anchor. I won't give you

11:58

teach you that. Yes, you want someone

12:00

who has much better strategy. You look

12:02

at the board and people know how

12:05

to do 10 moves ahead. We've heard

12:07

that expression. Oh, you know, there are

12:09

so many moves ahead. I am more

12:11

of a play it by ear. So

12:14

I don't, my strategy ways are non-scientific.

12:16

The Liverpool Central Chess Club met on

12:18

Mondays and Thursdays every week, even during

12:20

the harsh winter months. While William was

12:22

passionate and dedicated to the chess club,

12:25

he really only attended one meeting a

12:27

week to play a match or so.

12:29

William was a hard and dedicated worker,

12:31

so he didn't have as much free

12:34

time from his insurance ventures. However, every

12:36

other Monday he ensured he would be

12:38

able to play chess. Monday January 19,

12:40

1931 was one of those Mondays that

12:43

William planned to enjoy himself rather than

12:45

work. William was actually hesitant to go

12:47

to the chess club on that Monday

12:49

night because he was just getting over

12:51

the flu and Julia was sick with

12:54

bronchitis and their pet cat whose name

12:56

was Puss had accidentally gotten out and

12:58

was yet to come home but Julia

13:00

insisted that he go around 745 that

13:03

evening William showed up to the chess

13:05

club and club director Samuel Betty had

13:07

a message for him just about 30

13:09

minutes before his arrival someone by the

13:11

name of R. M. Waltrow Called the

13:14

cafe where the club was hosted and

13:16

asked to speak to William. Since William

13:18

had not yet arrived, Samuel took the

13:20

call and a message for him. The

13:23

person on the other line asked for

13:25

William's address since he wasn't yet at

13:27

the chess club, but Samuel refused to

13:29

give him this information and agreed to

13:32

take the message. The mysterious caller asked

13:34

Samuel to tell William to meet him

13:36

the following evening at 7.30 p. At

13:38

25, Menlove Gardens East. to discuss business

13:40

regarding his daughter turning 21. When Santa

13:43

relayed this message to William, no one

13:45

was able to figure out who this

13:47

RM Qualtrow was. Samuel and William actually

13:49

asked around the club if anybody knew

13:52

who this guy was or if they

13:54

knew about the address he wanted to

13:56

meet at and no one did. Other

13:58

players had heard of Men Love Gardens

14:01

North, South and West, and Men Love

14:03

Avenue West, but not Men Love Gardens

14:05

East. Some players offered suggestions of how

14:07

William might get there the next evening.

14:09

Early enough that same night, another man

14:12

asked Samuel for William's address. So at

14:14

the Liverpool Central Chess Club, if you

14:16

arrive later than 730 p.m., you basically

14:18

threw the match and automatically lost. William

14:21

was late. He arrived at 745, so

14:23

the match he was scheduled to play.

14:25

He didn't end up playing. This other

14:27

guy, James cared, realized that William didn't

14:29

have anyone to play at the moment

14:32

and offered to play William, but he

14:34

refused this. game because James was in

14:36

a higher playing class and he probably

14:38

knew he was going to lose. Yes.

14:41

After William refused James, James walked over

14:43

to the check-in table and asked Samuel

14:45

for William's address. During James's conversation with

14:47

Samuel, William found another guy to play

14:50

a match against and settled into that.

14:52

Samuel refused to give James the address

14:54

and just directed him to go talk

14:56

to William himself. Was this a really

14:58

weird coincidence or is James cared? Artro?

15:01

Is he just being shady? Yes. No,

15:03

right? Right. William played a successful game

15:05

against his new opponent winning and left

15:07

the club around 1015 p.m. that night.

15:10

He was seen leaving the club with

15:12

none other than James cared. During the

15:14

conversation, James told William that he knew

15:16

a man by the name of Qualtrow.

15:18

Not only that, but James had recommended

15:21

for William about the best way to

15:23

get to Menlove Garden East. To meet

15:25

this mysterious R.M. Qualtrow. The pair walked

15:27

for a bit together before going their

15:30

separate ways to their respective homes. William

15:32

arrived home around 11 p.m. that night

15:34

and Julia had dinner. waiting for him.

15:36

This was not unusual for Julia and

15:39

William to have dinner so late. This

15:41

was actually their normal practice and they

15:43

went to bed around midnight. After good

15:45

night sleep, William was off again by

15:47

1030 a.m. to start his day of

15:50

insurance collection rounds. After making rounds for

15:52

about two hours, he stopped at home

15:54

for lunch and then headed back out

15:56

again to continue working. When he returned

15:59

home, she had dinner ready and the

16:01

couple ate together and discussed the strange

16:03

message and meeting invitation that William had

16:05

received the night before. Again, William was

16:08

hesitant to go to the meeting, but

16:10

he claimed that Julia convinced him to

16:12

go. After all, commission is commission, and

16:14

both Julia and William were considered hard

16:16

dedicated workers. William left again that day,

16:19

this time around 6.45 p.m. and he

16:21

decided to take the tram instead of

16:23

walking to meet R.M. Qualtrow, because he

16:25

wasn't completely sure of what the meeting

16:28

place was, William decided to head to

16:30

the area where Menlove Avenue West was

16:32

and try to find his way from

16:34

there. To get to Menlove Avenue he

16:36

had to take three different trams. William

16:39

was relying on the conductor of the

16:41

trams to help get him to his

16:43

final destination. On the second tram the

16:45

conductor told him where to get off

16:48

to change trams and on the third

16:50

tram the conductor told him where to

16:52

get off to change trams and on

16:54

the third tram the conductor explained to

16:57

William the layout of the Menlove Gardens

16:59

neighborhood and stopped a few different people

17:01

on the street to ask them for

17:03

directions. He even went and knocked on

17:05

the door of the house at 25

17:08

Men Love Gardens west to see if

17:10

the address was written down incorrectly. Like

17:12

maybe he was supposed to go there.

17:14

Yeah. But he hit a dead end

17:17

and he hit that end after dead

17:19

end. When William was finally close to

17:21

giving up he ran into a police

17:23

officer on the street and asked him

17:26

where he could find the address. The

17:28

officer informed him that there was no

17:30

such place as at Men Love Gardens

17:32

East. This officer gave him yet another

17:34

suggestion of a place to try and

17:37

that if William went to the post

17:39

office or police station he may be

17:41

able to find a map to help

17:43

him out. Right. William followed the officer's

17:46

advice and went to a nearby post

17:48

office but they did not have a

17:50

street directory and suggested that he try

17:52

the newspaper shop as they might have

17:54

one. I mean there's four guys going

17:57

to the circle. He really wants this

17:59

commission. He does. When William arrived at

18:01

the newspaper shop just before 9 p.m.m.

18:03

he got lucky because they did in

18:06

fact have a street directory. William and

18:08

the store clerk huddled over the map

18:10

and William asked her for help finding

18:12

the address, but again they had no

18:15

luck. Defeated and just cranky at this

18:17

point in time, William gave up on

18:19

a search and decided to head back

18:21

home. He wrote basically the same three

18:23

trams on his route home, but this

18:26

time no witnesses remember seeing him. So

18:28

what was Julia doing all day while

18:30

William was working on January 20th, 1931?

18:32

She had a pretty laid-back day. It's

18:35

unsure what she spent her morning doing,

18:37

but around 3.30 p.m. that day. Her

18:39

sister-in-law Amy came by for a visit.

18:41

Amy reported that Julia told her about

18:43

William's business meeting that was scheduled for

18:46

later that night. The duo also discussed

18:48

how there had been a surge of

18:50

break-ins in the area. Well Amy was

18:52

visiting the baker's son stopped by to

18:55

deliver Julia her bread. The son actually

18:57

asked Julia how she was doing because...

18:59

He said that she looked really sick

19:01

and not like herself. Around 4.30 p.m.

19:04

Amy left and as she was leaving

19:06

the window cleaner was arriving to clean

19:08

Julia in Williams home windows. The window

19:10

cleaner was arriving to clean Julia in

19:12

Williams home windows. The window cleaner was

19:15

arriving to clean Julia in Williams home

19:17

windows. That night around 630 Julia had

19:19

another visitor. This time it was the

19:21

milkman's son to deliver the weekly milk.

19:24

The sun knocked at the door. gave

19:26

the son two empty cartons and instructed

19:28

him to hurry home because it was

19:30

cold outside. In between these visits and

19:33

various chores we know that Julia made

19:35

William lunch and dinner and ate those

19:37

meals with him. When William arrived home

19:39

at around 1040 that evening he tried

19:41

his front door key but the door

19:44

wouldn't open. The house Julia and William

19:46

lived in also had a door in

19:48

the back that they typically used but

19:50

at night it was most common for

19:53

them to use the front door to

19:55

be able to keep their home more

19:57

secure. William lightly knocked in the front

19:59

door before making his way to the

20:01

back. The back door was also locked

20:04

which he expected and he knocked lightly

20:06

again which was heard by the neighbors.

20:08

Julia wasn't opening the door so William

20:10

went around to the front again. He

20:13

was knocking and knocking again. Now with

20:15

some level of worry, building inside him,

20:17

he decided again that he was going

20:19

to check the back door, and this

20:22

time on his way around the house,

20:24

he ran into two other neighbors, John

20:26

and Florence Johnson. William immediately asked the

20:28

couple if they had heard anything unusual

20:30

happening that night. William told John and

20:33

Florence that he was unable to get

20:35

into his home and was getting worried

20:37

about his wife since she was home

20:39

sick. William tried again with his neighbors

20:42

at his side and the door thankfully

20:44

opened. John suggested that he and Florence

20:46

stay on the porch while William took

20:48

a look inside to make sure everything

20:50

was okay. The first place William checked

20:53

was the upstairs middle bedroom where he

20:55

and Julia slept thinking maybe she went

20:57

to bed early since she was sick.

20:59

When she wasn't in there he went

21:02

back downstairs to check the parlor. Upon

21:04

lighting the match and opening the door

21:06

slightly, William saw his wife Julia laying

21:08

face down on the floor in a

21:11

pool of her own blood. Come and

21:13

see, she's been killed! William shouted to

21:15

John and Florence as he ran back

21:17

to the doorway where they were standing

21:19

and complete disbelief and shock. John followed

21:22

William back into the home and into

21:24

the parlor. At first glance, no furniture

21:26

had been moved, but the closer John

21:28

looked, the more horrors he saw. Blood

21:31

had been sprayed over seven feet high

21:33

onto the walls and ceilings. Many of

21:35

Julia's paintings were covered in her blood.

21:37

Julie had a very large wound on

21:40

the back of her head, which seemed

21:42

to be oozing brain and skull matter.

21:44

Along with the pool of blood, Julia

21:46

was laying... in, there were two other

21:48

large pools of blood near the fireplace.

21:51

Florence was the only one to approach

21:53

the body to ensure that Julia was

21:55

dead. Of course, she's the brave one,

21:57

right? Right. William noticed that one of

22:00

the cabinets in the kitchen had been

22:02

ripped off and all of Williams insurance

22:04

collections from that day had been stolen.

22:06

All that was left was a single

22:08

dollar bill and some stamps. And with

22:11

that, John ran out of the house

22:13

to find the nearest doctor while Florence

22:15

and William waited in the kitchen. I'll

22:17

tell you a little bit about John

22:20

Florence and their family. They lived next

22:22

door to the Wallace's and the way

22:24

the houses were set up, they would

22:26

have basically shared a wall with each

22:29

other. So I'm thinking it's like a

22:31

row of homes. At the home of

22:33

John and Florence was their daughter, Nora.

22:35

Nora was engaged to a man named

22:37

Francis and he was frequently over their

22:40

house to visit Nora. On the night

22:42

of January 20th, Francis was at the

22:44

Johnson household. When Russell heard what was

22:46

going on and that his parents were

22:49

at the Wallace's house, he went over

22:51

there right away. He found his mother

22:53

and William in the kitchen and William

22:55

was actually cutting up meat for Julius

22:57

Cat, who had returned home at some

23:00

point that day. Russell found that site

23:02

pretty unsettling, considering his wife was in

23:04

the other room dead. It was just

23:06

kind of like, oh, I'm going to

23:09

feed gas. Now it's time. And I'm

23:11

cutting meat. Yeah. Her brain matter is

23:13

oozing out. Right. Like what the hell.

23:15

Oh, your audience. Read the room, dude.

23:18

Thank you. At this point, John is

23:20

still gone to get a doctor and

23:22

police to bring to the Wallace's house

23:24

and Florence and William are still waiting.

23:26

They decided to go back into the

23:29

parlor and check out the scene further.

23:31

Florence again felt Julia and noticed that

23:33

she was colder than she was when

23:35

they first arrived on the scene. The

23:38

pair wondered together what the killer had

23:40

used to kill her. William then noticed

23:42

the jacket he was wearing earlier in

23:44

the day was on the floor in

23:47

the parlor along with Julia's jacket not

23:49

knowing how they got there. Florence and

23:51

William went back to the kitchen. Since

23:53

they were still waiting, Florence suggested they

23:55

start a fire, and that's exactly what

23:58

she did. During the time they waited,

24:00

William cried multiple times and sat with

24:02

his head in his hands. The first

24:04

officers to the house did a horrible

24:07

job at preserving the crime scene. They

24:09

did such a bad job that an

24:11

officer literally showed up to the crime

24:13

scene drunk and went to the bathroom

24:15

and flushed toilet in the house. Oh

24:18

my God. But let's back up a

24:20

little bit to when the first officer

24:22

arrived at the scene at the scene.

24:24

At the scene. That officer was named

24:27

Constable Williams and when he first arrived

24:29

William took him on a walk through

24:31

the home. First they went upstairs and

24:33

took a look in the bathroom and

24:36

then the bedroom and Julia in Williams

24:38

bedroom there was a mantle and the

24:40

couple had a jar with coins inside.

24:42

Williams showed this to Constable Williams and

24:44

as he was showing it to him

24:47

he picked up a few coins that

24:49

were inside. Immediately Constable Williams told William

24:51

to put those back and not touch

24:53

anything further. This was another example of

24:56

how the crime scene was not properly

24:58

protected before investigation. William took the constable

25:00

into the other two bedrooms, the one

25:02

which was the makeshift laboratory, and the

25:05

other one which was used as a

25:07

spare room. And the spare room, the

25:09

sheets were kind of pulled down and

25:11

off the bed and some of the

25:13

pillows were on the floor. William told

25:16

the constable that he hadn't been in

25:18

that room in like two weeks, and

25:20

so he didn't know if it had

25:22

been like that or not. After the

25:25

tour, many other officers, medics, and investigators

25:27

arrived on the scene and the investigation

25:29

was in full swing. The first suspect,

25:31

as is usually suspected, when a wife

25:33

is murdered, is the husband. People suspected

25:36

William on the first night of the

25:38

investigation, but there just wasn't enough evidence

25:40

to back that theory up. According to

25:42

the autopsy, Julia's time of death was

25:45

750 p.m. and was caused by three

25:47

to four blows with a blunt object.

25:49

At that time, William would have been

25:51

across town searching for the address that

25:54

R.M. Qualtrow requested he meet a map.

25:56

There were also no bloodstains anywhere except

25:58

in the parlor. the chances that after

26:00

murdering his wife, William was able to

26:02

go upstairs, change his clothes, and wash

26:05

off without leaving a single trace. Officers

26:07

needed a hail Mary if they were

26:09

going to be able to charge William

26:11

with the murder of his wife. They

26:14

had to be missing something, but what

26:16

was it? They finally had the aha

26:18

moment. William's outdoor coat was found in

26:20

the parlor under Julia's dead body. Maybe

26:22

William was able to travel to Men

26:25

Love Gardens without a trace of the

26:27

crime on him because he was wearing

26:29

his coat during the murder and then

26:31

took it off because it had blood

26:34

splatter on it. Police finally put together

26:36

their theory of what happened that faithful

26:38

night. They believed that on January 19th

26:40

William went to a pay phone and

26:43

made a call to the cafe where

26:45

his chess club meeting which he arrived

26:47

too late, and when he got to

26:49

the chess club he faked his cluelessness

26:51

in regard to the mysterious message, all

26:54

to create an alibi for himself. Then

26:56

the next night police believed that he

26:58

waited until the milk boy came to

27:00

see Julia alive, quickly killed her, took

27:03

off the jacket, and went on his

27:05

way to the pretend meeting that he

27:07

had set up. Williams strongly refuted this

27:09

theory and maintained his innocence. It was

27:12

proven by witnesses across town that saw

27:14

and spoke to William that he did

27:16

actually go looking for R.M. Qualtrow. And

27:18

while he continued to maintain his innocence,

27:20

he was very vocal about who he

27:23

thought was his wife's true killer. Richard

27:25

Gordon Perry. There were many people in

27:27

the community who believed that William was

27:29

innocent and that he was just caught

27:32

up in a tragic and horrible experience.

27:34

Richard Perry used to work under William

27:36

at the insurance company. and he was

27:38

either fired or left on his own

27:40

because William caught him stealing money from

27:43

the company and cooking the books. William

27:45

stated that Richard didn't work alone and

27:47

there were other men he supervised that

27:49

were also stealing. One was Joseph King.

27:52

Caleb Mardson. William caught the men's ceiling

27:54

and they left the company, but continued

27:56

to be friends after departing. Both of

27:58

the men had been to Williams' house

28:01

on multiple occasions and knew where he

28:03

kept the cash box that he put

28:05

his insurance collections in. Richard also admitted

28:07

to police that he knew it was

28:09

a regular at the Liverpool Center Chess

28:12

Club, and he knew what cafe they

28:14

met at regularly, so he would have

28:16

known where to call and leave a

28:18

message. Another interesting finding regarding the potential

28:21

involvement of Richard and Joseph is that

28:23

when the police were looking into all

28:25

the people with the name Qualtrow, they

28:27

found a man named R.J. Qualtrow and

28:29

he just so happened to be a

28:32

client of Joseph's new insurance company. Joseph

28:34

claimed that the night of the murder

28:36

he was sick in bed with the

28:38

flu that was terrorizing Liverpool that winter.

28:41

Richard claimed that the day of the

28:43

murder he spent the entire afternoon with

28:45

some friends who verified this. However, this

28:47

alibi for the phone call was quite

28:50

suspicious. Richard told officers that the night

28:52

the phone call was made, he was

28:54

with his girlfriend Lily. Lily, however, said

28:56

that he was not with her during

28:58

the time the phone call was made

29:01

when he did show up to her

29:03

house. She was annoyed because he was

29:05

late. It was very unclear what actually

29:07

happened over the course of January 19th

29:10

to 20th, 1931. The first place that

29:12

officers zoomed in on was the phone

29:14

call. They wanted to analyze all the

29:16

details around this and see what they

29:19

could find. The first thing considered was

29:21

the distance between William and Julia's house

29:23

and the phone booth. The phone booth

29:25

that made the call was very close

29:27

to William's home and he could have

29:30

left home at the time he said

29:32

he did, quickly stopped and still made

29:34

it to the chess club by 745-ish.

29:36

William was eventually charged with Julia's murder.

29:39

And on April 22nd, 1931, he stood

29:41

trial, and despite the fact that all

29:43

the evidence around him was strictly circumstantial,

29:45

after only one hour of deliberation, the

29:47

jury found him guilty, and sentenced him

29:50

to death that same day. What? Oh

29:52

my gosh! I know, right? That's insane.

29:54

I know. That's April 22nd, 1931. By

29:56

May of 1931, William's sentence was overturned

29:59

in an appeal, and he was released.

30:01

I know. The Court of Criminal Appeals

30:03

said that there was simply not enough

30:05

evidence against William to charge and convict

30:08

him with the murder of his wife.

30:10

This was incredibly shocking to the public,

30:12

especially since it was super uncommon in

30:14

the 1900s. After William was set free,

30:16

he returned to his insurance job, but

30:19

life wasn't easy for him. There were

30:21

still tons of people in the community

30:23

who believed that he killed his wife

30:25

and just got away with it. William

30:28

lost clients and friends. William received hate

30:30

mail and even physical threats made against

30:32

his life. William lived in fear that

30:34

the person who killed his wife may

30:37

come after him now that he was

30:39

free, and the case wasn't solved. William

30:41

continued to struggle with kidney issues after

30:43

having one removed in emergency surgery that

30:45

I told you about and he ended

30:48

up using surgery that would have prolonged

30:50

his life. He died in the hospital

30:52

at age 54 and was then buried

30:54

next to his wife in 1933. Now

30:57

that William is a free man, now

30:59

what other possible situations happened that night.

31:01

First, it could have been someone who

31:03

was watching William and waiting for him

31:05

to leave that evening so they could

31:08

commit the crime. It would have honestly

31:10

been easy for a person to set

31:12

this up if they spent even just

31:14

a few weeks watching William and Julia

31:17

because they were very routine oriented people.

31:19

Not only like it, yes. Yeah, right?

31:21

I mean they did things always at

31:23

the same time. Clockwork, right? I mean

31:26

they did things always at the same

31:28

time. Clockwork, right? Not only that, but

31:30

the chess schedule was posted on a

31:32

board in a public place for anyone

31:34

to see. And if the extended period

31:37

of time. giving them enough time to

31:39

commit the crime without anyone seeing them.

31:41

There was also a lot of different

31:43

clubs that met at that specific cafe,

31:46

so that board got a lot of

31:48

traction and attention by them. The other

31:50

theory is that Richard Gordon Perry is

31:52

the killer with the potential help of

31:54

Joseph Caleb Mardson to get William back

31:57

for catching and calling them out for

31:59

stealing insurance money. Not only did he

32:01

know where the Wallace's lived and where

32:03

William kept his cash box and when

32:06

William went to play chess he knew

32:08

that too. He also had a criminal

32:10

record and included things like vandalism, sealing

32:12

and sexual abuse which he was acquitted

32:15

from but all of these crimes appeared

32:17

to be spur the moment and involved

32:19

no planning at all and he typically

32:21

got caught right away which might. indicate

32:23

that maybe he wasn't responsible for the

32:26

murder, but he did give a fake

32:28

account to where he was at night,

32:30

that the phone call was made saying

32:32

he was with his girlfriend when he

32:35

actually wasn't. To this day, the murderer

32:37

of Julia Wallace has never been found,

32:39

and her case remains unsolved. And people

32:41

still question whether or not Richard Gordon

32:44

Perry was involved, or if William did

32:46

it, or if it was something random.

32:48

So it's a crazy story. That is

32:50

crazy. And do you think William killed

32:52

his wife? I'm not feeling it because

32:55

what's the motive? I know, what's the

32:57

motive? Right, he hates her. They can't

32:59

stand each other. She's a drunk. He's

33:01

a drunk. Take your pick. There's, yes.

33:04

And none of that seemed to be

33:06

apparent. The only thing that sounded like

33:08

they didn't do together was go to

33:10

church. So, okay, a lot of couples

33:12

don't go to church together. But it

33:15

just doesn't seem like, like, like what,

33:17

one day he just decided he just

33:19

decided he couldn't stand her and decided

33:21

he couldn't stand her and decided to

33:24

kill her and decided to kill her

33:26

and decided to kill her. That does

33:28

not make sense at all. And that

33:30

what's his name Roger? What's the other

33:33

Richard Gordon? Yeah, Richard Gordon Perry. And

33:35

he's the one who stole money from

33:37

the insurance company. Yeah. William had to

33:39

fire him? Is that how it went?

33:41

Okay, so you can't really be friends

33:44

with the person who fired you. Because

33:46

when you had said, oh yeah, you

33:48

got fired, but they still remain friends.

33:50

Oh, there's... Yeah, no. One person is

33:53

in the darkness about the friendship. There

33:55

is no friendship. I'm thinking I would

33:57

go, I'm leaning more towards Richard. just

33:59

he seems to have the most motive

34:01

to try to fuck over William in

34:04

a way it ruined his life if

34:06

William didn't do it. I know it's

34:08

it seems odd I don't know I

34:10

don't think I like you I have

34:13

this feeling that William didn't do it

34:15

I don't know I think to go

34:17

on this wild goose chase it's one

34:19

thing to set the story up okay

34:22

yes so you you set the story

34:24

up that this guy calls and you're

34:26

going to go to this fake address

34:28

and whatever, but do you actually spend

34:31

hours and hours searching for this

34:33

fake address? If you really need

34:35

an alibi? Maybe not? I don't

34:37

know. I wouldn't. I would spend,

34:39

usually people are just very, the

34:41

thinking mind is, let me just be

34:43

seen. Let me have the post office

34:45

see me, this police officer, then I'm

34:47

heading right back home. Right. I'm done.

34:49

Yeah, exactly. I don't know, I don't

34:51

know, but yeah, I don't, I don't

34:53

get the feeling William did it. Although

34:55

William did fit the cat, I don't

34:58

know, that was weird, but people do

35:00

weird shit when they're like... That's right.

35:02

You know when you're in shock and

35:04

you do weird stuff I think I

35:06

do weird shit all the time so

35:08

I mean yes and it was an

35:10

act of love in a shocking state

35:12

I can see like oh the cat's

35:14

back she'd be so happy so you

35:17

don't on the cat in a way

35:19

but that's just me you know pulling

35:21

out a story of things I wasn't

35:24

there for I know but I would

35:26

surmise could see happening but yeah that's

35:28

it's so And then, 1911, when you

35:31

said that he had his kidney removed,

35:33

William, you know, were that advanced in

35:35

1911. Right. And he survived it?

35:37

And yeah. Yeah, it's up and

35:39

down on the sciences for us.

35:42

Did they have, like, were they

35:44

killing germs back in 1911? Did

35:46

they, like, use, they must have,

35:48

right? Oh, please. I don't know

35:51

when germs and bacteria and bacteria

35:53

and stuff were discovered, but they

35:55

had... Well, there's always been probably

35:57

vodka. Yeah. Or bleach, maybe. You

37:45

You can go to

37:47

patron.com/T&T crimes and you

37:49

can get another episode per week. We

37:51

do one free one like this one

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up through the Apple Podcast app. Bye.