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full terms at mintMobile.com. You're listening

0:32

to Kivocal to CEO, episode 289.

0:34

The non-profit industry is in crisis.

0:37

74% of employees are actively job

0:39

hunting or considering it this year.

0:41

Burnout is at an all-time high

0:43

and many professionals are desperate for

0:45

an exit plan. Enter Relatable Nonprofit,

0:48

a company helping non-profit professionals turn

0:50

their expertise into thriving consulting

0:52

businesses. Instead of relying on

0:55

cold outreach or conventional content

0:57

marketing to reach the ideal

0:59

clients for their mentorship program,

1:02

co-founder Catalina Parker created an

1:04

Instagram meme account that speaks

1:06

directly to frustrated non-profit professionals,

1:09

turning laughs into leads. With

1:11

over 7,000 engaged followers, this

1:14

low effort legion. has driven

1:16

a 313% increase in client

1:18

growth and $55,000 in revenue

1:20

in just three months with

1:23

only $500 a month in

1:25

ad spend. Here's how she

1:27

did it. Welcome

1:32

to Cubicle to CEO, the podcast

1:34

where we ask successful founders and

1:36

CEOs, the business questions you can't

1:38

Google. I'm your host Ellen Yin.

1:41

Every Monday, go behind the business

1:43

in a case study style interview

1:45

with a leading entrepreneur who shares

1:47

one specific growth strategy they've tested

1:49

in their own business, exactly how

1:52

they implemented it, and what the

1:54

results and revenue were. You'll also

1:56

hear financially transparent insights from my

1:58

own journey boots. our media

2:00

company from a $300

2:03

freelance project into millions

2:05

in revenue. Hey

2:14

everyone, welcome back to the show.

2:16

I'm super excited to be joined

2:18

today by Catalina Parker from Relatable

2:20

Nonprofit. And this case study is

2:22

one we've never covered before on

2:24

the show all about how her

2:26

organization, which helps nonprofit professionals transition

2:28

into consulting, how they actually created

2:31

a meme account on Instagram to

2:33

attract their ideal clients. And the

2:35

case study is super juicy. This

2:37

meme account actually increased their client

2:39

growth by. 313% and generated $55,000

2:41

of revenue in just three months

2:43

on a tiny ad budget of

2:45

$500. So you guys are in

2:47

for a good one, but before

2:49

we get into all that, Catalina,

2:51

thank you for being here. And

2:54

can you share with us real

2:56

quick your cubicle to CEO story

2:58

or cubicle to, I don't know,

3:00

non-profit story? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks

3:02

for having me, Ellen. I'm a

3:04

big fan. It's a pleasure to

3:06

be here. Thank you. I got

3:08

into non-profit work right out of

3:10

college. My first job was as

3:12

a receptionist slash office assistant and

3:15

then worked my way up to

3:17

a director level role by the

3:19

time I was 24. From there,

3:21

I was recruited to join a

3:23

$500 million private grant making foundation.

3:25

So it was literally my dream

3:27

job back then. I mean going

3:29

from asking for money as a

3:31

non-profit to giving away millions of

3:33

dollars to incredible causes. It was

3:36

just like a total pinch me

3:38

moment. Yeah, yeah. And from there,

3:40

I guess it was about five

3:42

years into the job I started

3:44

to realize that I was unhappy.

3:46

It was a combination of really

3:48

just like the leadership and just

3:50

some stuff with management that went

3:52

on and it wasn't. really aligning

3:54

with what I wanted at that

3:57

time. I had also recently had

3:59

my baby, she was a year

4:01

old at that time, and it

4:03

was just breaking my heart to

4:05

leave her at home every day

4:07

with a nanny, to have to

4:09

go to the office. So I

4:11

was really looking for something more

4:13

flexible. And it was really those

4:15

two things, me being unhappy in

4:18

my job and then being a

4:20

mom wanting a more flexible career

4:22

that led me to quit that

4:24

dream job in 2021. And from

4:26

there, I ended up texting an

4:28

old co-worker of mine. She was

4:30

actually my intern at a non-profit.

4:32

And I'd heard that she recently

4:34

left her non-profit job and that

4:36

she was starting an NBA program.

4:38

So I think the text was

4:41

literally like, hey, I'm starting a

4:43

business to help non-profits with fundraising

4:45

and marketing and ops. Do you

4:47

want to do it with me?

4:49

And she said yes, and that's

4:51

really just kind of what started

4:53

our entrepreneurial journey really. And we

4:55

built a six-figure consulting business serving

4:57

non-profits in less than 12 months.

4:59

From there we decided to start

5:02

scaling, so we were looking at

5:04

hiring our next employee to help

5:06

us take on the client work

5:08

as we were growing. It was

5:10

also around that same time that

5:12

we had a marketing partner reach

5:14

out about... a last minute webinar

5:16

opportunity and we decided to pitch

5:18

should you start consulting for non-profits

5:20

and it was something we'd never

5:23

done before but we were feeling

5:25

so happy and fulfilled in these

5:27

new consulting roles that we thought

5:29

well maybe other people would be

5:31

interested and we were totally blown

5:33

away by the response. I think

5:35

we got almost 500 registrations and

5:37

At the end of the webinar,

5:39

we pitched our offer, which was

5:41

a 12-month group coaching program to

5:44

help non-profit people, leave their jobs,

5:46

start consulting just like we did.

5:48

And we had people buying on

5:50

the call, it was crazy. we're

5:52

seeing the chat light up, like

5:54

just bought, just bought. So that

5:56

was crazy and really kind of

5:58

solidified the demand for our offer.

6:00

And we had a couple other

6:02

people join after that on the

6:05

call. And then that was really

6:07

our beta cohort of people. So

6:09

for the first six or seven

6:11

months of the program, we had

6:13

about 10 people in the beta

6:15

program, made tweaks based on all

6:17

their feedback, which was amazing. And

6:19

then it was the fall of

6:21

last year where we decided. This

6:23

thing has legs, we love it,

6:25

like we need to make a

6:28

choice because we're straddling businesses at

6:30

that time. So we decided to

6:32

offload our non-profit clients and go

6:34

all in on this new business

6:36

and that's where we are today.

6:38

We have I think about 30

6:40

people in our mentorship program and

6:42

are on track to hit 100

6:44

by the end of this year.

6:46

So yeah, that's the story. were

6:49

in the trenches of doing the

6:51

client work of consulting for non-profits

6:53

that you could really pull from

6:55

all angles to support your students

6:57

who are part of your mentorship

6:59

program. And I think for the

7:01

purposes of this case study, it

7:03

would be helpful for our listeners

7:05

to understand since the ultimate goal

7:07

of creating this meme account was

7:10

to enroll people in this program.

7:12

Can you share real quick like

7:14

what is the investment of? this

7:16

program so that we kind of

7:18

have that number in mind as

7:20

we're talking about, you know, the

7:22

$55,000 of revenue that was generated

7:24

in the three-month window? Yeah, the

7:26

program is 3K up front, and

7:28

then we also have payment plan

7:31

options, which is like 3,300 total.

7:33

Amazing. Okay, thank you for that

7:35

additional context. I want to start

7:37

off in understanding this case study

7:39

by... Really looking at why you

7:41

chose to take a departure from

7:43

traditional content marketing So when you

7:45

were creating this Instagram account did

7:47

it start as a meme account

7:49

or were you testing you know

7:52

kind of traditional content and you

7:54

realize, wait a second, this isn't

7:56

working for us or we want

7:58

to try something different. What was

8:00

the genesis of that? Yeah, so

8:02

we started the account in 2022,

8:04

so pretty new into our consulting

8:06

business, and it was, I mean,

8:08

We got the inspiration because we

8:10

knew we needed to build an

8:12

audience at that point We were

8:15

really just building our business based

8:17

on word-of-mouth referrals So we knew

8:19

like if we need to grove

8:21

this thing to scale it We've

8:23

got to start like telling people

8:25

about our offer so That's where

8:27

the account came from was just

8:29

we needed to create an audience.

8:31

But we tested a lot of

8:33

stuff because, you know, back then

8:36

we were selling directly to non-profits.

8:38

So the audience was totally different

8:40

than what we're doing today. And

8:42

we would try to post stuff

8:44

like, you know, fundraising tips or

8:46

more traditional content marketing. And it

8:48

was just like tanking. It was

8:50

not doing well at all. I

8:52

mean we tried different formats like

8:54

we would get on and do

8:57

reals with our faces because we

8:59

thought like let's build trust with

9:01

this audience, show our faces because

9:03

it was a faceless account. So

9:05

it was really just testing a

9:07

lot and then we realized this

9:09

is not working, people want the

9:11

joke so we don't know how

9:13

this is going to fit into

9:15

our overall marketing strategy but let's

9:18

just keep it going and figure

9:20

it out. It was then coincidentally

9:22

that we came up with this

9:24

new offer and actually ended up

9:26

tying in beautifully into the meme

9:28

account. So for people that might

9:30

not be familiar with nonprofit work,

9:32

there's like this huge talent crisis

9:34

going on right now where three

9:36

out of four every nonprofit employee,

9:39

they're looking for new jobs in

9:41

the next year. So people are

9:43

just burned out, it's low pay,

9:45

a lot of the time, they're

9:47

overworked, so they're looking for like

9:49

a new opportunity. And the offer

9:51

with the meme account were joking

9:53

about non-profit life. It can be

9:55

a good segue for people that

9:57

want to leave their... day jobs

9:59

and start consulting. So that's where

10:02

it ended up tying in for

10:04

us eventually after a lot of

10:06

testing. Okay, that's good to know.

10:08

And yeah, I can totally see

10:10

how you're attracting the right people.

10:12

You're really making them feel seen

10:14

and heard in the situations that

10:16

they're currently in. When you decided

10:18

to make that switch fully over

10:20

into a meme account where all

10:23

of your content was humor-based, entertainment-based,

10:25

what follower account do you remember?

10:27

Were you at back then? Because

10:29

I know currently your account is

10:31

at over 7,000 followers you're growing

10:33

to 10K, but do you were

10:35

at at that point in time?

10:37

I don't know, 3,000 follower count

10:39

mark, if I'm remembering correctly. And

10:41

we still tried to sprinkle it

10:44

in until maybe, I don't know,

10:46

four or five months ago, when

10:48

we were just finally like, this

10:50

is not working. Like, let's just

10:52

go with what works. Yeah. Maybe

10:54

it was even more open. Okay,

10:56

that's great to know. But still,

10:58

I mean, huge, huge strides, right?

11:00

If you only went fully into

11:02

a MEMA account four to five

11:05

months ago. growth from three to

11:07

seven thousand? I mean, that's more

11:09

than double your audience from before.

11:11

What was your growth trajectory and

11:13

timeline like? Like once you decided

11:15

to fully switch over into this

11:17

type of content, did you see

11:19

it like an almost overnight increase

11:21

in engagement and followers shares all

11:23

of the metrics that we're looking

11:26

for in terms of someone, you

11:28

know, paying attention to your content?

11:30

Or was it kind of more

11:32

of like a slow and steady

11:34

week over week growth? Yeah, it's

11:36

been more slow and steady to

11:38

be honest. I mean, I would

11:40

say the engagement has been consistently

11:42

high like Our stuff where we

11:44

would share like reels of us

11:46

talking about whatever tips for non-profits

11:49

those would get like no Engagement

11:51

and then the reels would where

11:53

we're joking about whatever Would just

11:55

go off the charts. I think

11:57

when I last checked Buffer our

11:59

engagement rates at like 8% average

12:01

on the post credible yeah, so

12:03

it's super high, but yeah, I

12:05

would say it was pretty steady

12:07

consistent growth. We also messed around

12:10

with boosted posts. So we do

12:12

use retargeting ads to create leads

12:14

for coaching business, but we have

12:16

a couple of boosted posts. It's

12:18

like $100 a month is what

12:20

we pay to just the follower

12:22

increase ads. And since running those,

12:24

which was around that three or

12:26

four months ago. That's when we

12:28

started seeing the explosion, like, you

12:31

know, 500 new people per month,

12:33

thousand, that kind of thing with

12:35

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13:55

just to clarify for our listeners,

13:57

when I hear the word boosted

13:59

post, I think of the post

14:01

that you, you know, like within

14:03

Instagram when there's that button that

14:05

says boost this post and you

14:07

literally just add, like you said,

14:09

a couple dollars to help get

14:11

it seen by more people. Are

14:13

those ads in the budget that

14:15

you spend, that $100 a month

14:17

that you spend towards boosted post?

14:19

Is that separate from the retargeting

14:21

traffic ads that are leading people

14:23

to your quiz? Okay, yeah, it's

14:25

$100 a month on the boosted,

14:27

which I usually pick like one

14:29

to two the highest, the top

14:31

performing post from that month is

14:33

what I'll hit boost on. And

14:35

then it's $500 a month on

14:37

retargeting ads. Okay, amazing. And we'll

14:39

get into the nitty gritty of

14:41

the retargeting ads. in just a

14:44

moment. But I do want to

14:46

talk about the content strategy, kind

14:48

of high level, and then get

14:50

into the retargeting piece so that

14:52

we can walk everybody through the

14:54

funnel one layer at a time.

14:56

So if we're talking about your

14:58

top of funnel meme content, you

15:00

post currently about three to four

15:02

times a week. So take us

15:04

through that content calendar on a

15:06

weekly basis. What kinds of memes

15:08

are you creating? Are they all

15:10

still images? Are they all still

15:12

images? Are they all still images?

15:14

Are they all original ideas that

15:16

you and your team conceptualize and

15:18

create? Or do you also kind

15:20

of act as a curator where

15:22

you go out and source funny

15:24

content that you're reposting and resharing

15:26

on your page as well? Yeah,

15:28

so we post three to four

15:30

times a week, like you said,

15:32

it's a combination of static carousel

15:34

and reals. We have this kind

15:36

of like pattern, I guess, or

15:38

aesthetic going on the page where

15:40

it's like... blue beige colorish tope

15:42

almost and then like a real

15:44

so we follow that just to

15:47

make it look nice. So it's

15:49

really that pattern so Condon's going

15:51

out every two to three to

15:53

four days and What I do

15:55

is I batch all the content

15:57

once a month, I sit, and

15:59

it's really all based on our

16:01

own experience working in the sector

16:03

or stories we've heard from people.

16:05

So from there, I'll write out

16:07

different topic ideas, whether it's about

16:09

like leadership in the sector or

16:11

like low pay or whatever it

16:13

might be. I try to pick

16:15

like super granular topic so it's

16:17

very niche to the audience. And

16:19

then from there I will plug

16:21

it into chat and just ask

16:23

it like can you please shorten

16:25

this or you know give me

16:27

something a little bit more and

16:29

it'll generate the captions for me

16:31

as well. And from there I

16:33

put everything in a Google doc

16:35

and I send it to our

16:37

executive assistant and she lays everything

16:39

out and schedules it for us

16:41

in buffer. So and then we

16:43

also get submissions to the account

16:45

through DM so we're creating content

16:47

based on that as well. Okay,

16:50

awesome. Thank you for walking us

16:52

through that. Do you find that

16:54

there's a specific type of content

16:56

that performs best for you or

16:58

even if you have your phone

17:00

nearby if you want to pull

17:02

up maybe... your most recent post

17:04

that really hit it off, I

17:06

think it'd be helpful for our

17:08

listeners to kind of hear like

17:10

what types of content seem to

17:12

engage best. And if that's too

17:14

much pressure to do in real

17:16

time, we could also drop those

17:18

links in the show notes. I'm

17:20

looking, I mean the last post

17:22

we shared was for Valentine's Day

17:24

and it says roses are red,

17:26

violets or blue non-profits thrive because

17:28

of people like you and that

17:30

got over 300 hearts. I can't

17:32

see the impressions on here where

17:34

I'm logged in, but that one

17:36

did well for us. That was

17:38

just a still image, just a

17:40

single image. Exactly what else do

17:42

I have in here? And that's

17:44

a more positive one. We have

17:46

gotten feedback from some of the

17:48

followers like, you guys just talk

17:50

about like the bad stuff. So

17:52

we do try to plug in

17:55

some more inspirational and feel good

17:57

stuff as well. Even though the

17:59

bread and butter is really the

18:01

jokes Right Then let me see

18:03

like a little roasting never hurt

18:05

anybody So yeah, what's an example

18:07

of a joke then that that

18:09

performed well and the type of

18:11

content was it a real was

18:13

it a carousel, you know? Yeah,

18:15

let's see here Okay, so it

18:17

says me And this is like

18:19

a take on all those POV

18:21

like reels that you see going

18:23

out. POV, we need a bigger

18:25

budget for marketing. My nonprofit boss

18:27

do it with Canva and Vives.

18:29

So that is, I got over

18:31

400 likes and comments. And it's

18:33

really just based on that non-profit

18:35

see marketing as a luxury, more

18:37

of a necessity, but it's kind

18:39

of just ridiculous because how do

18:41

you expect to have a zero

18:43

dollar. marketing budget and expect to

18:45

make more money or make more

18:47

sales is another way to think

18:49

about it. 100%. And I can

18:51

see that even that example that

18:53

you just shared being very relatable

18:55

truly to any market or who's

18:58

ever worked on a small team

19:00

or inside a small business with

19:02

limited funding. So that actually kind

19:04

of brings me to my next

19:06

question of how do you make

19:08

sure that your content actually reaches

19:10

ideal clients that would be a

19:12

good fit for your non-profit professional

19:14

to consulting program because you know,

19:16

to my hypothetical example, what if,

19:18

you know, a post really does

19:20

well? I don't know if you've

19:22

ever had like a mini-viral moment

19:24

where it gets in front of

19:26

a ton of people who find

19:28

that piece of content funny or

19:30

relatable, and they're following your account,

19:32

but maybe they're, again, they're not

19:34

someone who works in nonprofit, and

19:36

they're not an ideal client. How

19:38

do you kind of help to

19:40

filter that out to ensure that

19:42

you're growing your account with the

19:44

right people? Oh yeah, that's a

19:46

good question. So I mean I

19:48

can tell based on sometimes I'll

19:50

put stories or sometimes I'll even

19:52

like mess and go into the

19:54

followers and just click on their

19:56

bios and see like who the

19:58

heck is this, just as kind

20:01

of a test to make sure

20:03

that we're still targeting the right

20:05

people. But the stories I'll post,

20:07

there'll be polls. Like, you know,

20:09

do you want to see more

20:11

jokes on this? Or like, hey,

20:13

are you interested in taking our

20:15

free quiz? Or you can tell

20:17

generally by the comments and stuff.

20:19

I mean, I haven't seen, it's

20:21

probably 90% of the following is

20:23

all nonprofit professionals. And then maybe.

20:25

10% makeup consultants slash board members

20:27

or others, I would say. And

20:29

I don't know if you want

20:31

to talk about the retargeting as

20:33

well, but that's another indicator for

20:35

us to know that it's reaching

20:37

our ideal client. Yes, we're going

20:39

to get into that next. I

20:41

actually did have one other follow-up

20:43

question on the content. the reals

20:45

piece, I know you had previously

20:47

tested back before you decided to

20:49

commit fully to being a meme

20:51

or joke account, you had a

20:53

faceless account and then you did,

20:55

you know, face to camera, talking,

20:57

had reals and now that you've

20:59

transitioned into this type of account,

21:01

those types of like POV reals

21:03

or anything like that, are you

21:06

still in front of the camera

21:08

doing skits essentially, or things of

21:10

that nature, or is it still

21:12

all faceless in just, you know,

21:14

text? explaining a situation. It's still

21:16

all faceless. Wow. Yeah, it's, I

21:18

mean, occasionally we've played with the

21:20

idea like maybe we should do

21:22

an IG live or something and

21:24

show our faces to build trust

21:26

on that end. Where we are

21:28

really building trust is in our

21:30

email sequences after people take the

21:32

quiz. Makes sense. So it's almost

21:34

like reversed. Yeah. Okay. So you're

21:36

using the content on Instagram. capture

21:38

people's attention, and then let's talk

21:40

about your retargeting strategy. So once

21:42

someone has engaged with your profile

21:44

in any way, whether they follow

21:46

you, whether they've liked to post,

21:48

shared a post, commented somewhere, even

21:50

just visited your profile, but. of

21:52

been a lurker and been silent.

21:54

The cool thing for our listeners

21:56

who have never run meta ads

21:58

is Facebook and Instagram, they capture

22:00

all of that data even if

22:02

someone doesn't outwardly engage with you.

22:04

Like again, if they visit your

22:06

profile, that action is still tracked.

22:09

So talk us through, yeah, that

22:11

retargeting strategy, where are you sending

22:13

people, how are you capturing this

22:15

audience, the whole ads strategy? Yeah,

22:17

okay, so the the funnel I'll

22:19

start with the walk through that

22:21

maybe to start so they engage

22:23

like you said they engage with

22:25

the content or the follow the

22:27

account and After they do that

22:29

they are served retargeting ads which

22:31

take people to our freebie or

22:33

lead magnet, which is a quiz

22:35

and the quiz is seven questions.

22:37

It's built on type form. It's

22:39

called should you start consulting for

22:41

non-profits? and In that quiz, we

22:43

capture their name, email, phone, they

22:45

take the quiz, they get the

22:47

results, and then at the end

22:49

they're fed into our email sequences,

22:51

which would be, we have a

22:53

welcome, and then we have a

22:55

nurture, which is emails every five

22:57

to ten days, hitting them hard

22:59

with high trust, high value content

23:01

where we tell our personal story

23:03

building our business and leaving employee

23:05

life behind. also giving like tips

23:07

for how to go your business,

23:09

free trainings, galore, I mean it's

23:12

all value value value in the

23:14

emails. At the same time we

23:16

have a person on our team

23:18

who reaches out one on one,

23:20

every single person that takes the

23:22

quiz, she tries to get a

23:24

meeting with them and book discovery

23:26

calls and that's ultimately how we

23:28

end up closing and bringing people

23:30

into the program. So that's the

23:32

funnel from start to finish. That

23:34

I love that high-level walkthrough and

23:36

that high-touch component of a dedicated

23:38

person on your team following up

23:40

with every single person who takes

23:42

that quiz the actual ads technical

23:44

I guess for our listeners, you

23:46

may be curious. So I'm assuming

23:48

what you're doing, and please jump

23:50

in if I'm assuming incorrectly, but

23:52

I'm assuming that you are going

23:54

into meta ads manager and you're

23:56

creating a custom audience and indicating

23:58

like, hey, meta, I want you

24:00

to create me an audience of

24:02

everyone who's engaged with my Instagram

24:04

account in the last X number

24:06

of days, right? And is it,

24:08

what's that time frame? Are you

24:10

choosing in the last 30 days,

24:12

60 days, 60 days, or 90

24:14

days, or 90 days, or longer?

24:17

I'm testing different custom audiences. So

24:19

we have ones where it's 90

24:21

days, 180, 360. I also have

24:23

like testing people that hit our

24:25

site. I'm also playing with targeting

24:27

now where we're finding a lot

24:29

of people in our program are

24:31

in like the 50 to 60

24:33

age range, which is interesting and

24:35

they're looking for a second career.

24:37

So that kind of targeting was

24:39

new to us. I mean, we

24:41

had no idea that would be

24:43

the actual like average. ICP really

24:45

and we're testing ads right now

24:47

I set them up like two

24:49

weeks ago I think so I'm

24:51

still waiting on them to come

24:53

in but just targeting that demo

24:55

that age very interesting okay I

24:57

love that the data and again

24:59

I think this is a great

25:01

reminder for everyone listening like you

25:03

can assume all you want about

25:05

who your ideal client is but

25:07

like until you collect some data

25:09

it's really hard to actually know

25:11

so that's a great example of

25:13

that and also just a a

25:15

little context for anyone who's not

25:17

run ads before when you create

25:20

a custom audience let's say of

25:22

like everyone who's engaged with your

25:24

profile in the last. you know,

25:26

180 days, like you said, Catalina,

25:28

that audience automatically refreshes, it's like

25:30

a rolling 180-day window, so you

25:32

don't have to like create that

25:34

audience over and over again, it's

25:36

just you create it once and

25:38

then it refills based on who's

25:40

engaged in the last rolling 180

25:42

days. So that's awesome to know

25:44

that you've like kind of segmented

25:46

out these different pieces. Have you

25:48

found one audience to be particularly,

25:50

I know you said the age

25:52

demo, you know, was between... 1560,

25:54

but in the actual custom audiences

25:56

from an ad's perspective, have you

25:58

found one to be like the

26:00

ultimate winner that sends you the

26:02

most leads to your quiz and

26:04

the best cost per lead? Yeah,

26:06

so I tested probably, I don't

26:08

know, 30 to 50 different ad

26:10

types with just a combination of

26:12

creatives that were different and then

26:14

just like the copy was different,

26:16

the CTAs, just a lot of

26:18

testing. and ultimately landed on these

26:20

ads which it's our color it's

26:23

like a beige and a blue

26:25

like just our same color from

26:27

the meme account and it says

26:29

are you tired of wearing all

26:31

the hats which is like an

26:33

inside joke and it's a small

26:35

business joke too right and then

26:37

the text says take our quiz

26:39

should you start consulting. And it's

26:41

been that the minute we took

26:43

our faces off of ads, it's

26:45

crazy. Like things just went bananas

26:47

because we, you know, I saw

26:49

ads like Amy Porterfield or Jenna

26:51

Kutcher and everybody's faces are on

26:53

the ads. And we're actually talking

26:55

to a marketing strategist we hired,

26:57

and she was like, take your

26:59

faces off the ads, because nobody

27:01

knows who you are. And the

27:03

second we did that, that's when

27:05

the cost started going down and

27:07

the results started coming in stronger

27:09

than ever. So it's that it's

27:11

really just, I mean, at this

27:13

point, those ads that have no

27:15

face, the very simple copy, those

27:17

are the ones that are doing

27:19

best. I was never really a

27:21

runner. The way I see running

27:23

is a gift, especially when you

27:25

have stage four cancer. I'm Anne.

27:28

I'm running the Boston Marathon, presented

27:30

by Bank of America. I run

27:32

for Dana Barber Cancer Institute to

27:34

give people like me a chance

27:36

to thrive in life, even with

27:38

cancer. Join Bank of America in

27:40

helping Anne's cause. Give if you

27:42

can at B ofA.com/support Anne. What

27:44

would you like the power to

27:46

do? References to Charitable Organizations is

27:48

not endorsement by Bank of America

27:50

Corporation, copyright 2025. So interesting. I'm

27:52

sure. there's some psychology piece that

27:54

I'm not you know an expert

27:56

in but I'm very very curious

27:58

about that but such a great

28:00

reminder to test test because just

28:02

because something works really well for

28:04

everyone else or for the vast

28:06

majority of people does not mean

28:08

that it's your best marketing positioning

28:10

so that's that's great to know

28:12

but in terms of the actual

28:14

audiences themselves like the 180-day audience

28:16

window versus the 360-day window or

28:18

maybe an interest-based retargeting ad Have

28:20

you found any differences in all

28:22

the success of those? Yeah, sorry,

28:24

I screwed around your question. No,

28:26

no, no. I'm glad you added

28:28

that extra insight. That's so interesting.

28:31

I would have never thought that.

28:33

So anyways, continue. Yeah, so right

28:35

now we are testing. So going

28:37

outside of the retargeting, because we

28:39

know from just our Instagram, just

28:41

the analytics, like the average user,

28:43

the follower on there is. woman,

28:45

it's like 80% female, which is

28:47

standard for non-profit work. So it's

28:49

women in the age range of

28:51

35 to 55, and they're all

28:53

mostly in the US. So that's

28:55

the demo for the Instagram, and

28:57

that tends to be who's engaging

28:59

with those, the retargeting ads. So

29:01

now I'm testing kind of going

29:03

beyond just retargeting and not spending

29:05

any more money, I'm still like...

29:07

kind of testing the retargeting ads

29:09

against trying to find new people

29:11

like beyond the Instagram account. So

29:13

again because our audience tends to

29:15

be that 50 to 60 I'm

29:17

trying to see if can I

29:19

target people based on like title

29:21

or interest or whatever and I

29:23

can't seem to do that for

29:25

Instagram specifically but I'm able to

29:27

do it for the Facebook ones

29:29

which is weird but maybe I'm

29:31

doing that wrong. But so this

29:34

is a new category that we're

29:36

trying to set up like What's

29:38

better? Is it the retargeting audience?

29:40

Or is it just kind of

29:42

going on into the wild and

29:44

finding people based on their age?

29:46

you know, title, and that could

29:48

be like, maybe they have an

29:50

interest in volunteering for social causes

29:52

or their volunteer coordinator or just

29:54

different things like that that would

29:56

indicate an interest in nonprofit work.

29:58

Okay, interesting. So you're still splitting

30:00

the same. budget, but you're just

30:02

testing cold audiences versus the warm

30:04

retarding. I'll be very curious to

30:06

see which performs better, unless you

30:08

already have data in around that,

30:10

or is that still so new

30:12

that you don't have data yet

30:14

to compare which one is bringing

30:16

in more quiz leads? It's still

30:18

so, I set them up probably

30:20

two weeks ago, I like to

30:22

give it like 30 days. I

30:24

have data to compare. Yeah, I'm

30:26

curious to see. And maybe it's

30:28

all wrong because initially we had

30:30

tested cold targeting ads and it

30:32

was just crazy like $15 a

30:34

name is what we were paying.

30:36

So it's almost like we're going

30:39

back to an old strategy now

30:41

at this point. So it'll be

30:43

interesting. Okay, that's good to know.

30:45

What is your current cost per

30:47

lead for your warm retargeting ads

30:49

by the way? Do you have

30:51

an average range? Yeah, it's a

30:53

little under $2 a name. That's

30:55

amazing. That's so good for ads

30:57

in 2025. I love that. Yeah,

30:59

we're excited. We're getting on average

31:01

around 300 names. I think this

31:03

month I'm at like 360 new

31:05

emails have come in and that's

31:07

all with, you know, 500 bucks.

31:09

Wow. Okay, $500. And what's your

31:11

daily budget? How do you allocate

31:13

that? Is it literally just 500

31:15

divided by 30? So what is

31:17

that? I can't do the math

31:19

real quick. But anyways, is it

31:21

just that split out amongst 30

31:23

days? Okay. Yeah, but when it

31:25

out spends, it's done. Wow, okay.

31:27

I think that's really encouraging because

31:29

I think a lot of people,

31:31

you know, believe that if they

31:33

want to play in the ad

31:35

space, they really need this very

31:37

large budget. But to your point,

31:39

if you're focused on only retargeting

31:42

ads, that $500 budget can really

31:44

go. a long way because it's

31:46

such a niche audience that you're

31:48

getting back in front of with

31:50

your lead generating content. So that's

31:52

great. I know when you said

31:54

earlier, when people take the quiz,

31:56

they give you their name, their

31:58

phone number, and their email, I'm

32:00

just curious, have you noticed any

32:02

sort of... barrier with the phone

32:04

number piece because I know for

32:06

a lot of people like especially

32:08

like you said that they don't

32:10

know you super well I guess

32:12

maybe that doesn't apply here because

32:14

they already follow your account or

32:16

have engaged in some way but

32:18

still I know even with people

32:20

I know well I don't always

32:22

love to give out my phone

32:24

number have you ever tested a

32:26

version of the quiz that doesn't

32:28

ask for their phone number or

32:30

have you always just had that

32:32

as a field and you haven't

32:34

really noticed any big drop-off points

32:36

at that question Yeah, so we

32:38

actually added the phone number field.

32:40

We'd never asked for it before

32:42

and we've also played so we

32:45

added the phone number because The

32:47

sales person on our team she's

32:49

like I need phone numbers to

32:51

call these people. So it's optional

32:53

on the type form So not

32:55

everybody fills it out, but I'd

32:57

say it's like 50% of people.

32:59

I was surprised at how many

33:01

gave it away Yeah, but so

33:03

it's something that we added later

33:05

that phone number piece and we've

33:07

also tested like asking right now

33:09

the quiz at seven questions and

33:11

up front we ask for their

33:13

information rather than waiting at the

33:15

end and that really helped with

33:17

conversions as well we had tested

33:19

it like waiting at the back

33:21

end and for some reason just

33:23

up front is better. And I

33:25

think the conversion rates at 33%

33:27

people who so it's they hit

33:29

the landing page from the quiz

33:31

and then whether they decide to

33:33

take the quiz or not is

33:35

33%. That's awesome. And that makes

33:37

sense, like making the phone feel

33:39

optional. And I guess, again, this

33:41

is like why context matters, right?

33:43

The more I thought about it,

33:45

I was like, actually that kind

33:47

of makes sense for a nonprofit

33:50

professional because they could probably just

33:52

put their office number in there

33:54

and it doesn't necessarily need to

33:56

be like their home cell phone

33:58

number or, you know, something of

34:00

that. nature so okay that makes

34:02

complete sense. The person that you

34:04

have on your team who's reaching

34:06

out to every single person does

34:08

that person start every outreach the

34:10

same like are they always starting

34:12

with let's say a certain email

34:14

template is it dependent on each

34:16

person do they send an email

34:18

and then follow up with the

34:20

phone call regardless of whether they

34:22

hear back or how does that

34:24

outreach process look? Yeah, so

34:26

she sends a just an email template

34:29

that we have and it's like hey

34:31

I would love to learn more about

34:33

you and your non-profit story Thank you

34:36

for taking our quiz if you're interested

34:38

like write me back She doesn't send

34:40

like a calendar link or anything there

34:43

and it's you know, I would say

34:45

she's booking the last I talked to

34:47

her 15 to 20 calls per week

34:50

So I don't know the number on

34:52

that exactly. The 300 emails versus whatever,

34:54

but that's what she does. And then

34:57

if they decide to get on the

34:59

call with her, that is when she

35:01

will go and start digging into their

35:04

LinkedIn or doing more research to kind

35:06

of pre-qualify them before the call. Gotcha.

35:08

And speaking of pre-qualification, how are you

35:10

guys, I guess, pre-educating people on your

35:13

community slash group coaching program offer before

35:15

they get on the call because I

35:17

imagine if like they didn't have any

35:20

information about the program that would make

35:22

the discovery call either a lot more

35:24

lengthy or more difficult because they have

35:27

to like start from ground zero and

35:29

building up that information so do the

35:31

people who book these calls do they

35:34

understand that they're getting on a call

35:36

where they're going to find out more

35:38

information about this program? Yep, yeah, so

35:41

in that email welcome that we send

35:43

out like it's a 14 day welcome

35:45

and it's I think it's seven emails

35:48

and The first email is like hey

35:50

who the heck are we what's our

35:52

story and then it starts talking about

35:55

hey, we have a mentorship program and

35:57

starts sharing case study testimonials and why

35:59

you should consider consulting and it's more

36:02

of like a soft cell while at

36:04

the same time she the lag time

36:06

between when our sales person she reaches

36:09

out is probably like seven to ten

36:11

days seven to ten days seven to

36:13

days into them being in the welcome

36:16

sequence exactly okay yeah so it's kind

36:18

of like we try to prime them

36:20

in the emails for the call so

36:23

they're ready by the time they get

36:25

on with her Interesting, okay, I love

36:27

this. I feel like I have so

36:30

many ideas rolling in my head, I'm

36:32

sure her listeners do as well. And

36:34

then it's really impressive because for the

36:37

15, 20 calls a week that she

36:39

books, I believe you had submitted that

36:41

her current close rate is right that

36:44

she books. I believe you had submitted

36:46

that her current close rate is right

36:48

around 36%. So like one and every

36:51

three people are joining your program. Exactly.

36:53

Yep. Okay. Amazing. I know a question

36:55

I have that I'm sure our listeners

36:58

might have as well as like, how

37:00

did you find this amazing salesperson? Is

37:02

this someone you trained from the ground

37:05

up? Is this someone who already worked

37:07

in sales? Like who is this person?

37:09

How did you train them to be

37:11

fully independent in this role? Yeah. So

37:14

I'll say that we we didn't have

37:16

a salesperson. I mean, we didn't bring

37:18

her on until... We had this huge

37:21

skyrocket in sales just a couple months

37:23

ago. Before that, we were just relying

37:25

on the email checkout sequences. We would

37:28

do these live webinars and we were

37:30

playing around with this live launch model.

37:32

Right now, our program's evergreen. But... The

37:35

second we decided to bring on this

37:37

person on our team, that's when we,

37:39

I mean, just that one-on-one personal touch

37:42

made all the difference for us. And

37:44

we just didn't have the capacity to

37:46

reach out, honestly. I was trying to

37:49

reach out one-on-one and book calls and

37:51

I'm not a trained salesperson, so we

37:53

just realized it's better to get a

37:56

professional in here. And we really got

37:58

lucky actually. We knew her from we

38:00

had relationships formed with a bunch of

38:03

nonprofit tech companies where we would host

38:05

webinars with them or write guest blogs

38:07

or whatever and she was like the

38:10

sales leader of a very large nonprofit

38:12

CRM. She had just quit her job,

38:14

I guess it was last summer, was

38:17

thinking about consulting. So she was one

38:19

of those people I had reached out

38:21

to to try to get on a

38:24

sales call with her. We had to

38:26

reverse on you, yeah. Yeah, I know,

38:28

right. But we had the call and

38:31

she was like, well, I don't know,

38:33

she had just gone through the sabbatical

38:35

and she was trying to figure out

38:38

like what her next move was going

38:40

to be. And then I was like.

38:42

We're looking for sales people. Do you

38:45

know anyone? And she said I'm interested.

38:47

So it was just like a combination

38:49

of just timing being perfect and she

38:52

was looking for for something meant to

38:54

be. That's incredible. Yeah. And is she

38:56

a full-time employee or is she a

38:59

contractor? Yeah, she's a contractor right now.

39:01

We're planning to bring her on full-time

39:03

because we're building a recurring revenue model

39:06

and on slow growth. It's not cash

39:08

up front most. We do have some

39:10

up-front payments, but we're hoping to bring

39:13

her on full-time probably next year. That's

39:15

a great goal. And for anyone who

39:17

maybe wants to replicate this funnel model

39:19

that you've just laid out for us

39:22

today and is thinking, okay, you know,

39:24

if I hired a salesperson, what could

39:26

that look like in my business? Is

39:29

this a role that you are paying

39:31

a base rate plus commission to incentivize

39:33

performance or is it all commission just

39:36

to help others who may want to

39:38

try something similar? Yeah, we pay a

39:40

base and then we pay, oh gosh,

39:43

what's her commitment? I think it's like

39:45

15% is her commission. It's like 550

39:47

is what her commission is, whatever percentage

39:50

that is. So yeah, we set it

39:52

up that way. One, because I mean,

39:54

we're still in startup mode. can't pay

39:57

a higher base right now. But secondly,

39:59

as you said, to boost or incentivize

40:01

performance. And we've played around with, you

40:04

know, adding bonuses on top of if

40:06

she hits her quota for the month

40:08

and whatever. But yeah, right now it

40:11

admits at that. She gets 550 per

40:13

sale. Okay, super, super helpful. Thank you

40:15

for your transparency there, Catalina. And for

40:18

just all of your insights and data

40:20

that you shared with us today, I

40:22

think this is a really... cool model

40:25

and you found like a lead generating

40:27

machine that works really well for you.

40:29

So I'm excited to see maybe a

40:32

couple of our listeners try to test

40:34

out this concept of creating like a

40:36

meme account in their own niches and

40:39

industries. If you do successfully replicate this

40:41

strategy, please keep both me and Catalina

40:43

up to speed. I'm sure we would

40:46

love to see and follow that journey.

40:48

Catalina, where can our listeners continue to

40:50

connect with you with relatable non-profit after

40:53

this episode? Yeah, we're on Instagram of

40:55

course at Relatable Underscore Nonprofit or you

40:57

can go to our website Relatable Nonprofit.com

41:00

Awesome. We'll post all those links below

41:02

in the show notes to make sure

41:04

you check it out. And then of

41:07

course, the best way to learn is

41:09

to observe. So if you want to

41:11

see more examples of this type of

41:14

content in action in real time, then

41:16

follow the account. And that's the best

41:18

way that you can see all the

41:20

different ways that they're engaging with their

41:23

followers. So again, Catalina, thank you so

41:25

much. And thank you all for tuning

41:27

in. We will catch you in next

41:30

week's episode. If

41:38

you love today's episode, send it

41:40

to a friend, tag us on

41:43

Instagram at Cupical to CEO or

41:45

give us a five-star rating at

41:48

ratethis podcast.com/Cupical to CEO.