0:00

If people are dieting now more than ever

0:02

before, then why are

0:04

nearly one in three American adults

0:06

overweight? Dr. Gundry,

0:08

who's helped thousands lose weight and

0:10

feel younger and healthier than ever,

0:13

says most people are not getting

0:15

enough fat-burning MCTs from their food.

0:19

MCTs are a special kind of

0:21

compound that instead of turning into

0:23

fat when you consume it, turns

0:25

into ketones, which is a chemo.

0:27

Chemo tails, see you in the aisles. Can

0:30

we talk something else? Can

0:33

we talk about something else? Hello.

0:49

Out there. I

0:56

have a lot of respect for

0:59

sex work, especially the stuff

1:01

that's been going on in and

1:03

around Long Island for the last

1:05

decade and a half. The

1:07

Gilgo IV case was big

1:09

news. Missing Craigslist escorts,

1:11

petite, and in the early 20s,

1:14

discovered in burlap sacks alongside a

1:17

desolate section of Ocean Parkway out

1:19

in New York's Babylon. The

1:21

killer or killers had likely

1:24

driven along the Parkway at night, dumping

1:26

the burlap bodybags into the brambles

1:29

at intervals that measured little

1:31

less than a quarter mile of each other. A

1:34

neat row at Gilgo. Girls

1:37

always go missing in this line of work,

1:40

but a line such as the

1:42

one that soon extended to include

1:44

a total of 10 murdered out

1:46

along the Ocean Parkway, including an

1:49

unidentified and likely trans-Asian sex worker,

1:51

along with a toddler caught

1:53

up in this mess, meant that a serial

1:55

killer had been operating in Long Island

1:57

for quite some time and maybe. had

2:00

others dumping in his dumping

2:02

ground. He had

2:05

been operating literally. Some of the

2:07

bodies, him and these others, I

2:09

assume, had been operating

2:12

literally. Some of the bodies

2:14

had been decapitated, arms cut off, wrapped

2:17

partially. Some of these bodies were

2:19

in surgical mats. There was torture,

2:22

and strangulation, signs

2:24

of captivity with the victims.

2:27

But back to sex work. To put on your hard

2:29

hat every night and get out there, knowing

2:31

you easily could become another victim, is

2:35

sad. It shows how desperate some of

2:37

these girls are, but I have

2:39

to respect it. If I'd been a pretty young

2:41

woman in my early 20s, I

2:43

like to think that I'd have had the balls or

2:46

the tits to get out there, hustle,

2:48

make a good living for a few

2:50

years, get ahead, so

2:53

to speak. But for the girls out there

2:55

who knew that Lisk was on

2:57

the prowl, the Long Island serial killer,

3:00

what a brave, albeit

3:02

reckless pursuit. Easy

3:04

money. I've heard some of these

3:06

girls say, when asked, why they

3:09

do it, by my estimation, there's little

3:11

though, that is easy about sex work.

3:14

In the case of the Lisk victims,

3:16

you're a petite young woman, around five

3:18

feet tall, weighing 100 pounds or so.

3:21

You're dressed in a handful of clothing,

3:23

wearing heels, and probably high

3:26

on hard drugs, drinking alcohol, going

3:28

into the homes or vehicles of strange

3:30

men who probably don't bother much with

3:33

chivalry or even washing their

3:35

groin area before slamming your face

3:37

into it, easy money. That's

3:39

how some of these girls describe it, wiping

3:42

out their mouths and counting the

3:44

cash afterwards through hollow eyes.

3:47

And then one day something like the

3:49

Lisk gets you, and you're

3:51

strung up by chains attached to a hard

3:54

point in the ceiling, kept for days or

3:56

for as long as he needs you until

3:59

dumping. you? I can't imagine

4:01

any amount of money, any steady stream

4:04

of drugs being worth putting oneself out

4:06

into a scene with a predator like

4:08

Lisk out there. To be

4:10

fair, Lisk was a faceless phantom

4:13

until just recently, had the

4:15

girls known that a cunning architect with

4:17

decades of dirty work under his nails,

4:19

lumbering around as a giant among men,

4:22

a behemoth to women, was responsible, maybe

4:25

they would have opted for a doctorate. The

4:28

recently arrested and accused Long Island

4:30

serial killer, Rex Huerman, looks

4:32

like a great white shark that climbed

4:34

out of the Atlantic one night and

4:37

put a suit on, started a family,

4:39

secured a high-powered job, then went

4:41

on the hunt. I'm sure

4:43

you've seen Rex. He's enormous,

4:45

a waddling shark. You remember

4:47

Bruce from Finding Nemo? That's

4:50

Rex Huerman in his suit, his

4:52

dorsal fin that haunted head of his

4:54

that surely seemed to cut through and

4:57

above the crowds streaming to New York

4:59

skyscrapers every morning back in his heyday

5:02

when he was the ever elusive Lisk.

5:05

Rex Huerman was hiding in

5:07

plain sight. He lived just

5:10

above the Gilgo graveyard in Mesapeco

5:12

Park. Now that the Lisk

5:14

has been revealed, it's a little shocking how

5:16

scary the man is. A

5:18

highly organized killer, Huerman, from what we

5:21

know so far, was meticulous.

5:24

The 50 hotel card keys found in his

5:26

home were bothersome. The hundreds of

5:29

devices, computers, could those

5:31

be keepsakes? The fact that

5:33

he seemed to intentionally misspell

5:35

words like torture as tour-ture

5:37

in his itineraries of mastered

5:39

mayhem, these misspellings to me

5:41

are homage to BTK. Though

5:44

Huerman is far too large to have climbed in

5:46

through windows, I believe he was more of a

5:48

trapper than a hunter like Raider. Still,

5:51

you can't convince me that Rex Huerman,

5:53

an architect, doesn't know that the word

5:55

heavy, as he used it in quote,

6:00

heavy rope for neck." End

6:02

quote. He can't convince me he

6:04

doesn't know that heavy is not

6:07

spelled as H-E-V-E-Y. Anyways,

6:10

this isn't a LISK episode. I'll

6:12

wait for more details. The ones

6:14

we have are ferocious on the

6:17

imagination, cruel in nature, and I

6:19

find myself wanting to climb into the mouth of

6:21

this beast right now, but I'll

6:23

wait. It's on the list. Welcome

6:26

to Dark Topic. I'm your host, Jack Luna.

6:29

This is a true crime happening. Off

6:32

the list. The

6:39

cadaver dog search for a missing

6:41

escort, 23-year-old Shannon Gilbert off of

6:43

Ocean Parkway and the Oak Beach

6:45

neighborhoods of Long Island, then progressing

6:47

to Gilgo Beach, Long Island back

6:49

in December of 2010, was Rex

6:51

Heurman's undoing. Not

6:56

his doing, in my opinion, but

6:58

LISK's undoing. Earlier

7:01

that year, in the spring of May 1st

7:03

of 2010, the escort Shannon

7:05

Gilbert had vanished under troubling

7:07

circumstances, placing a 911 call from a

7:10

client's home in Oak Beach before running

7:12

around from a fluent household to a

7:15

fluent household in the night begging

7:17

for help. Her driver, Michael Pack,

7:19

can be heard in the background of the

7:22

call trying to calm her down. The

7:24

client, Joseph Brewer, can

7:26

be heard trying to get her out of his house.

7:29

Shannon is on the phone with 911

7:32

and she's claiming her life to be

7:34

in danger saying that, they're

7:37

trying to kill me. Popular,

7:39

or maybe unpopular belief, has

7:42

Shannon experiencing some kind of panic, possibly

7:45

induced by mental illness or drugs

7:47

or both? Some believe that

7:49

the client said or did something

7:51

to scare her, that's Joe Brewer,

7:54

or that her driver, Michael Pack, who

7:57

was supposed to be here security, had led her

7:59

into a trap. Shannon.

14:02

Shannon. Shannon.

14:06

Shannon. Shannon. Shannon

14:10

Gilbert. She's behind the couch. She's afraid of

14:12

Joe Brewer, the client. She's afraid of her

14:14

driver, Michael Pack. And she's saying, you're being

14:16

sarcastic. What? You're a part of this all

14:18

along. What is she talking about?

14:21

Clearly there's more going on here than meets the

14:23

year. And now it

14:25

sounds like she's struggling to get out of the house

14:27

and she's running past her driver. I'll continue. Ahhh!

14:32

Ahhh! Ahhh!

14:36

Ahhh! So

14:38

the screaming is disconcerting, right? This

14:40

call, it's well known by this point. But

14:43

it's difficult to understand unless you know that Shannon begins the

14:45

call behind the couch, like I said, at around 4am. She

14:48

runs from the home when

14:50

her driver, Michael Pack, confronts her. Pack

14:53

wasn't her usual driver, like I said,

14:55

and Shannon's boyfriend, Alex, was usually

14:57

the driver. But there had

14:59

been some domestic and legal issues as

15:01

of late. He actually beat her

15:03

up so bad and broke her jaw where she had

15:05

a titanium plate in her jaw

15:08

that would eventually be a

15:12

determining factor when they find her body that

15:14

they indeed have Shannon at

15:17

a marsh where she ends up. Spoiler

15:20

alert. But she runs from the house

15:22

at that point, and that's why the screaming is about it on

15:24

the call. Once in

15:26

the street, Shannon begins banging on doors.

15:29

One woman calls 911 as she's

15:31

scared to let the girl in. Another

15:34

older man, Gus Coletti, opens his

15:36

door and talks with Shannon. He

15:38

calls 911 as well. But Shannon

15:40

takes off from his door when she sees

15:42

the headlights of Michael Pack searching

15:44

for her. Now, Michael

15:47

Pack later will be like, man, this was

15:49

a mess. I got an escort

15:51

out here. It's a legal business

15:53

we're dealing in. We're a long way

15:55

from Jersey City, Manhattan. The

15:58

sun's going to come up, and I'm chasing you.

16:00

around while the neighborhood is calling 911 and she's

16:02

on the phone with 911 and I'm fucking out

16:04

of here. Good luck. That's

16:06

his attitude. Shannon Gilbert

16:09

apparently runs into the reeds off of

16:11

the roadside or in behind the houses

16:14

and she gets lost out there and dies. That's

16:16

the official story. The

16:18

Gilbert family lawyer and lawyer to

16:21

a few Lisk victims, John Ray,

16:24

wholeheartedly disagrees with this conclusion that she went

16:26

out there and drowned

16:28

in a little bit of water out in the marsh. This

16:31

lawyer is quite the character. He's

16:34

like the Don Cherry of lawyers,

16:36

Don Cherry being a Canadian

16:38

icon or he used to be. And

16:40

if you don't get that reference, then he's like

16:42

a real life Saul Goodman from Better

16:44

Call Saul. And if that one doesn't

16:46

grab you, the guy, John

16:48

Ray, an older man with a

16:50

little ponytail dressing flamboyantly, not afraid

16:52

to make things interesting in front

16:54

of the press, that's

16:57

John Ray. Personally, I think he's full of shit half

16:59

the time, but there's no doubt

17:01

method to his madness. Lawyer

17:03

John Ray, New York lawyer John Ray

17:05

believes that there's something sick that's been

17:08

going on out there in the private

17:10

beach communities off of Ocean Parkway in

17:12

Long Island for a long time.

17:15

We've got proof of this too. I mean,

17:17

there's a disgraced former police chief in James

17:20

Burke. Burke was chief of

17:22

Suffolk County during much of the Lisk

17:24

investigations and is thought to have sabotaged

17:26

the case many times in

17:28

order to cover up his activities as

17:30

an active party boy in

17:32

the Gilgo Oak Beach Ocean

17:35

Parkway scene where call

17:37

girls and cocaine were commonplace. Lawyer

17:40

John Ray has insinuated that the former

17:42

chief might be responsible for

17:45

the unknown Asian male potential trans

17:47

sex worker found out by Gilgo

17:49

Beach dead dressed as a woman.

17:52

Ray and many others, including myself, suspect

17:54

that the former police chief Burke was

17:57

part of some sex and murder cult.

18:00

in the Oak Beach, Gilgo area, which is

18:02

known for being strange and secretive. The

18:04

Gilgo Four, whom I won't get too

18:07

detailed about. If I'm going to do

18:09

it, I'll do it, but not today.

18:11

The Gilgo Four seem to be quite

18:13

obviously connected to one another. The

18:15

other six bodies, including this

18:18

potentially trans sex worker and the unknown

18:21

Asian male, they

18:24

don't seem to be connected to the Gilgo

18:27

Four, although they're all found in the same

18:29

area out there. The other six bodies outside

18:31

of the Gilgo Four that are directly connected

18:33

to Lisk, definitely. The

18:35

other six bodies found out there appear more

18:37

random than those Gilgo Four. And

18:40

I don't mean to be insensitive in not giving the names and

18:43

all that. I just think I will cover this case in the

18:45

future and get more into it. So I'm not just going to

18:47

throw their names out there and not touch on exactly what their

18:49

backgrounds were and all that. This is

18:51

off the Lisk. I'm at least I'm trying for it to

18:53

be. But the other

18:56

six bodies apart from the Gilgo Four,

18:58

they were more random seeming and they

19:00

were treated in a more chaotic way

19:02

when it came to disposal. Cut

19:05

up some parts of their bodies

19:07

found outside of the area almost

19:09

as if there had been a kill team involved.

19:12

A party night where at the end

19:14

you kill the escort, the sex worker.

19:17

And this kill team then maybe they're

19:20

each given a part of the body and

19:22

told to go scatter the remains in

19:25

order to make everybody implicit in

19:28

this. My gut tells me that Rex

19:30

Huerman, the accused Lisk, Long

19:33

Island serial killer, he worked alone and

19:36

that he chose a dumping ground for his

19:38

victims that had previously been used by some

19:40

kill club that perhaps he had been a

19:43

part of back in the 90s

19:45

and continued on his own doing his own

19:47

thing later on. This is

19:49

just speculation. This is just my imagination. And

19:52

we'll see if I'm right by the

19:54

time I get to covering Lisk

19:57

properly and that he chose a

19:59

dumping ground for his victims. that had

20:01

previously been used by some kill club

20:03

out off of Ocean Parkway in the

20:05

private affluence of places like Oak Beach,

20:07

Gilgo, from where Shannon Gilbert made

20:10

her 911 call before vanishing

20:12

into the haunted night air out

20:15

there. So let's talk about

20:17

Shannon Gilbert, finally being found

20:19

in December of 2011, 19

20:22

months after her disappearing, and 10

20:24

bodies accidentally discovered in the process of

20:27

trying to locate her. Shannon

20:29

was found deep in a marsh about a

20:31

half a mile from the Oak Beach neighborhood

20:33

she'd run from screaming on that call, claiming

20:36

that they were trying to kill her. Her

20:39

naked remains were found after her clothing and

20:41

personal items were discovered some distance from her

20:44

out in the marshy section behind the

20:46

home she'd fled from. The

20:48

cause of death had been ruled accidental. Investigators

20:51

deduced that Shannon Gilbert ran out

20:53

into the marsh and became stuck

20:56

in her frenzy in her drug

20:58

induced psychosis, and then she

21:00

somehow drowned out there. Many

21:02

find this to be ridiculous considering

21:04

her being partially naked

21:07

and that Shannon's hyoid bone

21:10

in her neck was broken,

21:12

a strong indicator of strangulation.

21:15

The hyoid is the only floating bone in

21:17

your body and is located in the front

21:19

of your neck. It supports

21:22

the tongue and helps with speaking and

21:24

swallowing. But I'm no doctor.

21:26

You know who is though? The guy

21:29

whose house Shannon Gilbert's body

21:31

was found behind a neighbor

21:34

of the client of hers that night, Joe

21:36

Brewer, Dr. Peter Hackett was

21:38

this doctor, this neighbor, and

21:41

he was known by authorities as the

21:43

type to insert himself into investigations. Hackett

21:46

was a former head of the Suffolk County Emergency

21:49

Medical Services in 1996

21:51

when TWA flight 800 experienced a fuel issue

21:56

sparking the pilot to comment that she

21:58

was rising. Finally, He's

24:00

also rumored to have had a fascination

24:02

with body parts, talking just

24:05

openly to people about what he had seen

24:07

in that aftermath. And

24:09

the way in which he spoke was not in

24:11

a normal medical sense. I should

24:14

add that Dr. Hackett called

24:16

Shannon Gilbert's mother Mary a

24:18

few days following her disappearance in his

24:21

neighborhood. Hackett told

24:23

Mary Gilbert, the mother of Shannon,

24:25

that he'd treated Shannon at his

24:27

home for wayward girls and then

24:29

released her. Later,

24:31

Hackett would deny making this call, but

24:33

phone records would confirm that he had.

24:36

Shannon's mother Mary fought like hell to

24:39

get justice for her daughter. Both

24:41

mother Mary and attorney John Ray, whom

24:44

I mentioned, felt that Dr. Hackett had

24:46

something to do with Shannon's disappearance. When

24:49

Shannon was found behind his estate, this

24:52

all but confirmed it for them. A

24:55

wrongful death lawsuit was filed against Hackett,

24:57

and he fled for Florida to start a

25:00

new life of which he says is completely

25:02

ruined due to the ongoing lawsuit of wrongful

25:04

death in the Shannon Gilbert case and speculation

25:06

that he was involved because of his phone

25:08

call he made to the mother

25:10

Mary Gilbert afterwards saying that he'd treated

25:13

her. I mean, what

25:16

the fuck was he doing? Why

25:18

would he insert himself here? There's

25:21

a lot of speculation he was involved in this

25:23

massive mess out in his old stomping grounds now,

25:25

now that he's moved to Florida. Dr.

25:28

Hackett was said to have

25:30

basically run that community out

25:32

there, Gilgo, Oak Beach area,

25:34

very respected. And

25:36

the community has many

25:38

suspicions that he had such

25:41

a very dark influence

25:43

on the dark underbelly there

25:46

that many admit stretched back with

25:48

rumors to the early 90s

25:50

that there was these kill clubs or these

25:52

sex parties going on that would

25:55

often end in violence. Shannon's

25:57

mother Mary was brought to Dr.

25:59

Hackett's back deck once her

26:01

body was found back there. And

26:04

the deck looked over the marsh

26:06

where her daughter was found. They

26:08

needed to use special vehicles to get out there to

26:11

even search for her. By the way, it's impossible to

26:13

phone call in the beginning. And

26:15

then now being on that porch 19

26:17

months later of that doctor, Dr. Hackett,

26:19

who had called her and said

26:23

this shit, it's to

26:25

Mary Gilbert, the

26:28

mother of Shannon Gilbert. She thought

26:31

this cannot be a coincidence. Shannon's

26:34

mother, Mary Gilbert, vowed to see this

26:36

thing through as did their family lawyer

26:39

now, John

26:41

Ray. Unfortunately, mother,

26:44

Mary Gilbert, her

26:46

own end would come first.

26:49

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licensed therapist today at talkspace.com. Save

30:09

$80 with code SPACE-80 at

30:11

talkspace.com. And this is what

30:13

I'm talking about when it comes to this

30:15

episode being off the list. I'm trying to stay off

30:17

the list, but there's just too much on

30:20

it. I'll get

30:22

off it right away now though.

30:24

In February of 2016, while still

30:27

searching for answers in the death of

30:29

her daughter Shannon Gilbert, 52-year-old

30:32

Mary Gilbert was knocked off balance with

30:35

yet another major issue concerning a daughter

30:37

of hers. 27-year-old

30:39

Sarah Gilbert had been deeply

30:42

affected by her sister, Shannon's, suspected

30:44

murder. Sarah was seen

30:46

on television at times with her mother and

30:49

sisters under the bright lights

30:51

that came with the media's lisk

30:53

fascination. Sarah, who

30:55

suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, often

30:58

seemed bewildered in the background, her

31:01

eyes wide and filled with a mixture

31:03

of fear, pain, sadness, and anger. She

31:05

always stood out to me in those

31:07

interviews back then as

31:11

looking like she needed a drink or

31:13

some help. There was something

31:15

deeply wrong behind that glazed, faraway

31:18

stare of Sarah's. It

31:20

came to light when her mother Mary was

31:23

forced to take custody of her 8-year-old

31:25

grandson, Sarah's little boy, after

31:27

Sarah had drowned his puppy in the

31:29

bathtub in front of the boy. The

31:32

reason? Sarah had

31:34

become convinced that the dog was

31:37

rapper Eminem and that

31:39

Eminem was out to kill her. Now,

31:41

listening to Eminem and some of his albums back

31:44

then as a paranoid schizophrenic probably

31:47

didn't do great wonders for your mental illness.

31:50

Like, I guess I can see how this

31:52

would have happened. Now I can't. You're drowning

31:54

a puppy saying it's Eminem in front of

31:56

your 8-year-old boy? I'm going

31:58

to think about... an

32:00

Eminem lyric, we're off the top of my

32:02

head. I'm a big Eminem fan, big Stephen King fan. When

32:07

it comes to movies, I'm a Quentin Tarantino fan. I

32:09

just like the greats. You know,

32:11

I just enjoy greatness. Fucking

32:14

sue me, but I can grab an

32:16

Eminem lyric off the top of my

32:19

head. One of my big influences, Eminem,

32:21

and another fucking, I just said him,

32:23

King and Tarantino. Uh,

32:26

fucking, I went to John's rave with

32:29

Ron and Dave, met a new wave

32:31

blonde babe with half of her head

32:33

shaved. There's one. How about that? How

32:35

about that? But back to this. Obviously,

32:39

Sarah had issues. Her father,

32:41

whom was different than her sister's father's,

32:44

her mother Mary had multiple, you

32:46

know, partners that she had children with. Her

32:49

father though, Sarah, who

32:51

we're switching over to here now in this confusing

32:53

episode of Dark Topic. He

32:55

had a heroin addiction in Sarah's

32:58

childhood and also suffered from

33:00

mental illness. Sarah spent

33:02

time in foster care as a child.

33:04

She had suffered sexual abuse. Her

33:07

mother Mary had regrets over how Sarah's

33:09

life had culminated, and she

33:11

stuck by Sarah. Sarah also looked up very

33:13

much so to Shannon

33:15

Gilbert, who was found after all

33:18

of the 10 bodies

33:21

were recovered out there in Gilgo. Sarah

33:24

looked up to her sister greatly, and this really spun

33:26

her into a

33:29

real spiral, obviously here, beginning with the drowning

33:31

of a puppy in front of her eight

33:33

year old boy. So her

33:35

mother is trying to help her after

33:37

she's taking custody of her child as

33:39

a result of that act. And

33:41

she gets her daughter into

33:43

psychiatric care only

33:46

months before what culminated here.

33:49

Sarah's revenge on her mother Mary for taking

33:51

her little boy from her as

33:53

she saw it. On July 23rd of 2016, following

33:55

a stint in a psych facility puppy

34:00

in front of her son for Christ's sakes, Sarah

34:03

Gilbert, off her paranoid

34:05

schizophrenia meds replaced by alcohol

34:07

and street drugs, calls

34:09

her mother Mary and tells her that she

34:11

needs company as she was hearing voices.

34:14

This happened a lot. Sarah and

34:16

her mother lived in the same home, though

34:19

this home was sectioned into apartments. Sarah

34:22

lived up top, while mom, and

34:24

who she thought of as her

34:26

stolen little boy, now live downstairs.

34:29

Mary mother Mary answered the call and

34:32

was sitting with Sarah on her couch

34:34

upstairs by 10 30 a.m. on

34:36

July 23rd 2016, five

34:39

years after her daughter,

34:42

Mary's daughter had been found out in the marsh

34:44

and Sarah's sister, remember this is Sarah's

34:47

sister that she looked up to so

34:49

much. And while

34:51

Mary's sitting on the couch having these conversations

34:53

they must have about how she fucked up

34:55

everything as trying to console her daughter, Sarah

34:58

begins to slip a kitchen knife from

35:00

behind a throw pillow she's holding on

35:03

her lap. Then

35:05

Sarah in a fit of madness

35:07

and convinced of her mother's evil

35:09

nature took to stabbing her

35:11

mother Mary. And this is off the

35:13

list. This is what I'm trying to get

35:15

to. This is a story I wanted to tell.

35:19

Though the other one about Lisk and everything surrounding

35:21

it is what I'm going to have to tell

35:23

in the future. This is where

35:26

I was trying to get off the

35:28

list. How many times did

35:30

she stab her mother? 227

35:32

times. Once

35:36

the blade finally broke, Sarah

35:38

got a fire extinguisher and

35:40

bashed her mother's head in. Then

35:42

she poured the contents of the

35:45

extinguisher down her thoroughly deceased mother's

35:47

throat. Then she

35:50

put on some music, M&M, and

35:53

smoked cigarettes until the police showed up

35:56

following a call for a welfare check by

35:58

her sister. When police

36:00

police entered the apartment, they immediately saw the

36:02

state of Mother Mary, and soon found Sarah

36:04

in the bathtub trying to clean the blood

36:06

off of herself. Sarah

36:09

looked up when they entered the police

36:11

and she stated to these police, quote,

36:14

I am under arrest. Gilbert

36:17

family attorney and deeply

36:19

embedded in the list case, attorney

36:22

John Ray, the real life Saul

36:24

Goodman, it's all good

36:27

man, who had worked so

36:29

closely with Mother Mary Gilbert to get justice

36:31

for Shannon, her daughter would be

36:34

Shannon's sister and Mary Gilbert's

36:37

daughter's attorney

36:40

in this case. So

36:42

John Ray's involved in this so, so

36:45

deep. Ray would state that

36:47

this was an insane crime, not

36:49

one motivated by rage. We're talking about

36:51

the crime of Sarah killing Mother Mary,

36:53

whom he had worked so closely with

36:55

and trying to get justice for Sarah.

36:58

I got, sorry for Shannon, I'm

37:00

trying to keep this clear. This

37:03

attorney Ray would state that this was

37:05

an insane crime, not one motivated by

37:07

rage. Here's a quote from attorney

37:10

Ray here, quote, there's

37:12

a madness in this that

37:15

no ordinary human being suffers,

37:18

end quote. So

37:21

he is representing Sarah and

37:23

killing her Mother Mary, whom

37:26

this attorney John Ray was

37:29

standing side by side with for years

37:32

following her daughter, Shannon

37:34

Gilbert's, the

37:37

discovery of her body out there in

37:39

the area in which we, everybody

37:42

came to realize that

37:46

the Lisk killer was out there.

37:50

In the stand, Sarah, she wouldn't

37:52

help much. She wouldn't help her own case

37:54

much in the killing of her mother. She

37:57

clearly stated that her intention was to kill

37:59

her mother. because she

38:01

was evil. Sarah Gilbert was

38:03

convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to

38:05

25 years to life. She

38:08

appealed in 2021, but was denied. The

38:12

second-degree murder charges just as crazy

38:14

to me as not

38:16

deeming her crazy. What

38:20

was she doing? Just cuddling a fucking

38:22

kitchen knife behind that pillow? There's no

38:24

pre-meditation there? So second-degree murder

38:26

is you commit the act

38:28

and like a fit of you decided in

38:30

the moment to do it. First-degree

38:32

is it's premeditated. That

38:34

kitchen knife being behind the fucking pillow, I mean,

38:36

that seems to be premeditation to me, again,

38:40

unless she just cuddles with

38:42

fucking knives. Here's Gilbert family

38:44

lawyer, John Ray, who's really gotten some airtime

38:46

out of this whole situation. He doesn't even

38:49

seem real at this point, like a character

38:51

from a Stephen King novel or a

38:53

Quentin Tarantino movie. Here's what

38:56

Ray had to say about Sarah being put

38:58

into prison for killing her mother in such

39:00

an atrocious way, like a psychotic

39:03

way in my opinion, and he

39:05

obviously agrees or I agree with him. Here's

39:07

what he had to say about her being

39:09

put into prison rather than a psych ward.

39:12

And I think I'll cross this

39:14

one completely off the list when it comes to

39:16

Sarah and her mother, Mary. I

39:18

will be back with an episode,

39:21

a fully-fleshed episode on Lisk once

39:24

all the details come out, and

39:26

we get to hear from Rex Huerman himself at

39:28

some point. I'm not gonna do it now, I'm

39:30

not gonna speculate. A

39:32

lot more information is going to come out. I

39:34

will do a BTK-style episode on

39:36

Lisk once we have more information. But

39:39

I will finish here with Attorney John

39:41

Ray talking about how Sarah

39:43

shouldn't have been put into prison. She should

39:45

have been put in a psych

39:47

ward for what she did to her mother, her

39:50

poor mother, Mary Gilbert, who went through

39:52

so much up until the end of her life.

39:55

I think Sarah will kill someone in prison, it's

39:57

almost certain, because Sarah's...

40:00

Sarah's insane. Sarah's insane. Sarah's

40:03

violent. Sarah's psychotic. Sarah's

40:05

extremely psychotic. And

40:08

in her psychosis, she

40:10

has been repeatedly homicidal.

40:13

She's attacked nurses. She's attacked other patients

40:15

with her. She's attacked staff

40:17

members in her hospitals. She killed

40:19

her mother. She was going to kill her son. She

40:22

was going to kill her sisters. The

40:24

chances that Sarah, in a prison,

40:26

even on meds, will

40:30

not commit another homicide

40:32

are very slim. She will kill again.

40:34

And that'll do it. A

40:37

little curve ball for you, a little slurv,

40:39

a little knuckle ball really. I'm a knucklehead

40:41

for trying to attack this case in that

40:43

way. I'll be sure

40:45

to do a proper list case once everything is

40:47

out in the open. I

40:50

want to thank Valerie, the

40:52

serial killer Miller. Thank you for your

40:54

high level support, Valerie. And

40:56

Sinful Cynthia. Thank

40:58

you both for your high level support on

41:01

Patreon. I do nicknames

41:03

now for anyone who comes to

41:05

the high level of Patreon. And

41:07

thanks to all who support for

41:09

exclusive content on Apple Plus and

41:11

Patreon. And to anyone who listens

41:13

in general, thanks to you too. How about that?

41:16

Everyone gets a special thank you. That's

41:19

real nice of me. And other

41:21

than that, please rate and review Dark

41:23

Topic. Please check out Maroon podcast that

41:25

I do with Aaron Haible of Generation

41:27

Y twice a month. And

41:29

I should say for the exclusives, everyone's

41:32

asking that listens publicly, like, where are

41:34

you? Why aren't you doing more Dark

41:36

Topics? I'm trying, okay? I'm

41:38

trying to do two a month. This

41:41

is what you can get, though, with the

41:43

exclusives. You can get more

41:45

Dark Topic at the $5 tier of

41:47

Patreon. You

41:49

also get early releases of Marooned, early

41:52

ad-free, early ad-free releases of Dark Topic.

41:55

You also get a big back catalog

41:57

of exclusive episodes and

41:59

Brutal, the... What I do with Kent Chungus makes

42:01

an appearance there on occasion. That

42:03

mostly lives at the 13th floor and on

42:06

Apple+. So on Apple+, you can get three

42:08

days free if you want to listen and

42:11

get all the content for free and then not

42:15

pay. You can do that for

42:20

three days. So on

42:22

Apple+, for $9.99 a month, you'll get

42:24

additional dark topics as well as

42:26

two brutal episodes a month and a big back

42:29

catalog. On Patreon's 13th

42:31

floor, you will get those two brutal

42:33

episodes. You will get all the dark

42:35

topic plus episodes. You'll get

42:37

the early releases. You'll get Jack Loomis'

42:40

Dark Fiction and everything I do with

42:42

other podcasts like my brother Leroy's podcast,

42:44

excuse me, that's a legal pod, as

42:47

well as a big back catalog there too that's exclusive

42:49

to the 13th floor. But

42:52

wait, there's more. Now

42:54

I think that's it. How about I read

42:56

some reviews? Let's do something that's a little bit

42:58

more interesting than me just trying to

43:00

plug my exclusive content.

43:03

How about I read some reviews and bring myself

43:05

down a notch? I don't read

43:08

reviews unless I'm doing

43:10

it here. I'm

43:13

lying. I check in sometimes. Let's

43:16

see what we got. I'm going to go for a negative

43:18

one first. One star. You

43:20

had me until you called ADH

43:22

People Spoiled stuck up for

43:25

asking for special accommodations. Okay.

43:31

I don't remember doing that. So I

43:33

can't really come. I

43:35

think it was about time blindness. I

43:38

think I talked on an exclusive episode about how

43:41

people who say that they suffer from time

43:43

blindness, so they should be

43:45

forgiven for showing up late for stuff

43:48

because they're ADHD time blindness. That

43:52

bothered me because you have a phone, most

43:54

people do, with alarms on it that

43:56

can get you to places on time. Anyways.

44:00

One star off of that. That's, I think

44:02

that's the comment that I made. Five

44:05

stars. Blown away.

44:08

Found this pod by accident. And it's

44:10

the best accident I've ever had. Jack's

44:13

storytelling is incredible. Binging

44:15

it can't get enough. Thank you

44:17

so much, JBT Mom. Oh,

44:20

that's not my mom. JBT Mom is her name

44:22

there. What else

44:24

do we got? We

44:27

got... A

44:30

lot of five star reviews. Thank you

44:32

everybody so much. Five stars. Love your

44:34

honesty, opinions, your attitude, my admiration of

44:36

the way you tell these dark truths

44:38

is beyond my ability to express. Thank

44:40

you so much, Jolene. What

44:44

else we got? One

44:46

star. What happened? Something

44:48

awful because your podcast is so not what it

44:51

used to be, unfortunately.

44:54

All right, thanks for that. Two

44:56

stars. Lame.

45:00

Paywall and lack of free

45:02

content is atrocious. Thank

45:04

you very much. Truth in review. All

45:08

right, well, we'll move on from there. Maybe we'll

45:10

end on a five star. Dark topic, you have

45:12

a way with words, none wasted, really enjoy crazy

45:14

merry character. Oh, that's from

45:16

the exclusive content. Actually

45:19

very creeped out by the story. Well, thank

45:22

you. That's Jack Lewin's dark fiction they're alluding

45:24

to there. Hey, listen, obviously I'm not putting

45:26

in enough public content. I

45:30

live off of Patreon and Apple

45:32

Plus. That is how I

45:34

support my family. And I do, I

45:36

tunnel vision on that stuff quite a

45:38

bit. I'm gonna do my best. I've

45:40

cut some fat and

45:43

I'm going to try my best. I

45:45

mean, I can't promise because I

45:48

always break promises, but I hear, I hear, I

45:50

hear you. All right, I

45:53

hear you. I need to put up more public content. Other

45:56

than that, icecock doors

45:58

lock, stay paranoid. and

46:02

just good to talk to you again,

46:04

everybody out.