0:00

Hello and welcome back to Data Driven. In this episode,

0:04

Frank and Andy interview Aviad Harrell, managing partner

0:07

at Team 8. Aviad sheds light on team 8's unique

0:11

model of partnering with founders even before they have fully formed

0:14

ideas, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking,

0:18

understanding problems intimately, and having a systematic process for

0:22

success. Aviad's insights into the evolution of venture

0:25

capital capital and the AI revolution are sure to intrigue and

0:29

inspire. Now on to the show.

0:33

Alright. Hello, and welcome back to Data Driven, the podcast where we explore the

0:37

emergent fields of AI, data science, and, of course, data

0:40

engineering. With me on this epic road trip down the information

0:44

superhighway of data. Andy Leonard. How's it going, Andy? It's going pretty good, Frank. How are you,

0:51

sir? I'm doing alright. You and I are both suffering from the

0:55

pollen wave that has hit, Virginia, Maryland.

0:58

We're at least half of Maryland. The southern the the kind of coastal

1:02

half. I was in Pittsburgh. Out of town, and I was up in you were

1:06

north. I was in Pittsburgh, and Yeah. Everyone up there is complaining about

1:09

allergies, but, yeah, it wasn't at the degree. It didn't bother me. And then it's

1:13

literally as soon as I crossed interstate 81, in

1:16

Hagerstown, boom. Like, it just hit like a wave.

1:22

But with me, with us today is

1:26

Aviad Harel. He is a, management partner

1:29

at team 8, and, he's gonna tell

1:33

us all about what team 8 is because I've heard it used, I've heard it

1:36

referenced, but I'd like to know more. Welcome to the show, Aviad. Hi, Frank.

1:40

Hi, Andy. Happy to be on your show today. Cool. Good to have you.

1:44

So It was my pleasure. You are, you're an

1:48

investor. You're, an adviser, and

1:52

you have a history of of being a founder, actually. You you

1:56

were a founder and COO of

1:59

Sisense. So tell us about what is team 8? Let's start

2:03

there. Yep. So team

2:07

8 is, is a VC to begin with. It's

2:11

an Israeli based VC, quite large one,

2:15

but, it has, a spill. It's a VC with

2:19

a spill, and I'll try to explain what, makes it, unique.

2:25

We at Teammate, we really like to partner with

2:28

founders very early in their journey.

2:32

Sometimes before they have a very established idea of what they're going to

2:36

build, we usually look for founders

2:40

that, we we become big believers

2:44

in in their capabilities, and

2:47

we are also interested in founders that are interested in the

2:51

same verticals that we are interested. Part of our day to day is to build

2:59

thesis for ideas. What does it mean? We don't like to be

3:02

passive. We don't like to sit on our on our chairs and waiting for,

3:06

founding, teams to come to us and pitch us ideas. We

3:10

do that, and we like that, but we also really, really

3:13

like to be very active on the ideation part. So even

3:17

before we find founders, we work very hard to build our own thesis in

3:21

our, in our specific verticals that we're interested

3:25

in. But we're building the thesis in a way

3:28

that is like we are going to start that company.

3:32

So we come up with an idea. We connect to

3:36

the market, to specific companies that potentially can become design

3:40

partners or even customers, of that idea, and

3:43

we try to validate that idea together with them.

3:48

If we were able to validate the idea

3:52

in in in a very systematic way, and we have a very

3:55

elaborated, book of processes, how we, validate

3:59

our teasers. And then we also found the right

4:03

founders that, we feed them, they feed us, and they feed the

4:06

teasers. Then we usually don't just bet

4:10

on them, we triple bet on them. It starts with the size

4:14

of the check. Usually, we invest in

4:17

precede, rounds. We invest 2 x to

4:21

5 x of the average check size in these founders and

4:24

ideas. We do not invest

4:28

in many companies every year. We invest in only very few

4:32

because we want to give them our full attention. And lastly, at

4:36

team 8, we have, an establishment we call

4:40

the, the platform. It's actually a group

4:44

of 85 professionals on the payroll of teammate that

4:47

includes, developers and product people and

4:51

sales people and business people, that they have two purposes

4:55

in, teammate. 1, help us in, validating

4:59

thesis, and secondly started

5:03

it. So from the

5:07

perspective of the founders, if we decided,

5:11

to partner with them, we give them large

5:14

checks very early on in the process. They give they get

5:18

the bandwidth of, the managing partner such as

5:22

myself and my, partner, and they're augmented,

5:26

at day 0 with the platform, the 85, professional,

5:31

part of, teammate. This is a very expensive motion.

5:35

We were able to execute on that motion

5:39

if and only if we're able to build a very strong conviction

5:44

on the problem, the solution, and the founders. So

5:48

we do very little, but the little we do, we

5:52

triple bet on that. So this is this is

5:55

my way to explain the difference, or the

5:59

different motion of teammate versus a more typical VCs.

6:05

Right. And, you know, VCs, at least in America at

6:08

least in the Valley, the Valley model, it sounds like you're very different than the

6:11

Valley model. It seems like you're you're kind of, like, a step or

6:15

2 ahead of you you bet. And that's not fair to the valley based ones.

6:18

Right? Like, because there there's a stereotype. Right? Like, and and I'm sure they're they're

6:21

painfully aware of the survey. But it sounds like you don't just invest in the

6:24

idea, but you also invest in the people. Right? Correct. Correct.

6:28

I I I would not be, very quick to say that,

6:33

the Silicon Valley VCs do not invest in people. They do invest in

6:36

people, But, we invest

6:40

in people very early. Right. And,

6:44

we take bigger chances because we build bigger conviction

6:49

more than average at least on the problem statement and the solution for that.

6:53

Mhmm. Nice. That makes a lot of sense.

6:57

No. And I don't mean to track the value of these. It's

7:00

just it's a different what you're doing is is I think being people first,

7:04

if that's if that's a a a good way to think of it. How did

7:07

you come to that I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. We're big

7:11

believers in, people. You know?

7:16

I think the number one, attribute to success of a

7:20

venture is the people we partner with and the

7:23

market. Right? These are the 2 most important, attributes, to

7:27

that. So we try to partner with the best founders we can. Now best

7:31

founders we can partner with is a combination of few qualities.

7:35

1st, the the people, and secondly, they're matched

7:38

to the teases, to the idea that they are after.

7:42

Interesting. Interesting. How did you

7:46

come to that model of being kind of a people first approach as opposed

7:49

to what I've seen as more of a product

7:53

based approach or an offering based approach?

7:57

Yeah. So first, teammate, was

8:01

founded way before I joined. I joined a little bit over a year ago, so

8:05

it's not a a model I invented. But I think,

8:09

this model, was created based on few things. 1st, I think

8:16

the people that founded team 8 basically,

8:19

had a very good understanding of a specific vertical they started

8:23

with and cybersecurity. Teammate was found by

8:27

the x 8200, commander. It was the the

8:30

intelligence, technical intelligence unit out of IDF.

8:34

And, he and his team came with,

8:38

a set of understanding deep understanding of, the

8:42

vertical, and, they wanted to

8:46

be very active in regards to what they're going to build and not just

8:49

wait for, ideas to come to them. So they started to build few teasers,

8:53

and they part of the process of building or or building a

8:57

factory to build, startups, they also started

9:01

to, meet or date potential, founders.

9:04

And, they had a very good initial success, And I think this

9:08

is what, set, set the structure going on

9:12

forward of, how, things are, taking

9:16

place at Team 8. Well, that whole that whole seeking

9:19

out people, I know I know that's what other, VCs do.

9:23

But most of the time, you know, those of us on the outside of the

9:26

market, hear of people going to pitch

9:30

their ideas in a shark tank kind of way. Is that on my side

9:34

or your side? So that on my side, that's what

9:38

I hear. You know, my understanding is Got a little bit dumb. Invested.

9:42

So you got a little bit disconnected. Technical glitches. Yeah.

9:46

So from my side, what I see as a person on the outside is

9:49

that usually engagement with venture capitalists

9:53

involves someone like me going to someone like you

9:57

and sharing an idea and creating a pension oh, I'm sorry.

10:00

I still see him. Oh, no. I still see you. Can you

10:04

still hear me, Andy? I hear both of you. Yeah. And I've had a couple

10:08

of glitches over here, but that's kinda normal. Am I back in

10:12

sync? You look like you are.

10:15

Okay. Can you hear me? Typing. I can hear you. Can you hear

10:19

me talking when and see my mouse moving into the system? You for,

10:23

few to, 10 of seconds. Okay. Can you hear me now?

10:30

Daphne says she can hear me. Okay. Weird. Oh,

10:33

well. Sorry about He's moving. Yeah. I can see

10:37

I think the video is good. You come in and go. I'm trying to check

10:41

my network. It seems okay. Yeah. It's probably me.

10:45

I'll let my team Teams. I like blaming Teams. Hold on. Frank, you know what

10:48

I you got the gist of what I'm about to do. Yeah.

10:53

So I will I will ask in behalf of Andy because it's okay. So

10:57

from the outside, right, and and to be clear, last time I had any kind

11:00

of interactions with, venture capitalists would have been the dotcom

11:03

boom. Right? So this is, like, a lifetime ago. And,

11:09

one of the things is, like, when when we when people tend to when people

11:13

on the outside of the industry, they tend to think of something like Shark

11:16

Tank. Right? Where a a a, entrepreneur

11:20

goes to a bunch of venture capitalists, and they do a pitch deck or a

11:24

pitch. Has that changed? Like, what is what is what is kinda normal for the

11:27

industry now? Can you still hear me?

11:38

Oh, wow. Okay. He's not moving, so you come and go.

11:42

Okay. Yeah. Let me prep a Google Meet

11:45

just in case. I think now it's a little bit better. Now it's better.

11:56

Yeah. Maybe we should turn off cameras just to be We

11:59

can. Yeah. Sorry about that, guys. No worries.

12:05

Alright. How's that? Can you I can

12:09

hear you perfectly. Yeah. Excellent. Alright.

12:13

This is gonna happen over the course of 8 years of podcasting.

12:17

Alright. 1st time. Go ahead, Andy. We'll we'll take it from the top.

12:20

Okay. So my question was, you know, I'm I'm a person outside of,

12:24

venture capital. I've not interacted with, with with

12:28

venture capitalists at all. And my understanding has

12:32

been that the way you engage with a venture capitalist

12:35

is you do a pitch deck. You go to a meeting that's a lot like

12:39

the TV show Shark Tank, and they ask

12:43

questions and you give answers. And, you know, at the end

12:47

of that, they you know, the venture capitalists go thumbs up,

12:50

thumbs down. And what I hear you saying, it sounds like that, yes,

12:54

you're doing that, but you're also actively seeking out

12:58

founders and that that's a bit different from what we've

13:02

what we've expected. Okay. I think Cool. I think I think you

13:05

described it, well. We seek out founders sometimes even

13:09

before they have ideas. And in parallel, we also seek

13:12

ideas regardless of founders. Now that's an interesting

13:16

approach going after the that you know, I've never heard anybody say

13:20

that before, that you're looking for, I guess, you're looking

13:24

for leadership or, enthusiasm or

13:27

intelligence or some combination of all of the above. You're you're

13:31

looking for a person, and then y'all are all

13:35

gonna get together, you and that person and your team,

13:38

and you're gonna come up with an idea for that person to

13:42

lead. Is that accurate? It is. It is. I just,

13:46

even make it more, more,

13:50

concrete. We look for entrepreneurs. Right? Entrepreneur

13:53

is a little bit, of mixture of of, everything you listed,

13:57

earlier. Uh-huh. But it also has the x factor.

14:01

You know, someone that, will be able to get,

14:05

in the room from the cracks in the floor. Right?

14:09

So that x factor is a must,

14:14

a must be, fairy dust on the qualities you described earlier.

14:18

But, yeah, we're focused on that. Interesting.

14:23

Interesting. What is what is kind of like

14:27

because last time I interacted with any kind of venture capital would have been during

14:30

the dotcom boom in the late nineties. Yep. How how has the industry

14:34

changed since then? Well, this is this is

14:38

a a a great, question. So,

14:41

I'll try to answer it from, my own experience. So,

14:47

before I joined team 8, I was a

14:50

founder of, business intelligence and analytics company called Sisense.

14:54

I started it 18 years ago. It's a long

14:58

period of time when I say it, like that, and I spend there 15 years,

15:03

holding, all the various position, you can,

15:07

think of. I remember few things

15:10

from the early days of, Sisense. 1st,

15:14

it feels like it was way

15:18

less professional than it is today. In the

15:21

sense that when me and my cofounders

15:25

wanted to start a Sisense, we were completely clueless.

15:28

Right? We were completely clueless of what it means to start a

15:32

company. We were completely clueless what it means to build a product.

15:36

We were completely clueless of what it means to define a product

15:40

or to build a team or to raise money.

15:43

Today, many years after, I meet

15:47

many teams and I see that the level of understanding,

15:52

and, the knowledge that the teams, the founders that I

15:56

meet today have is a few orders of

15:59

magnitude, higher than what I had when I

16:03

started. So this is one thing. Secondly,

16:07

the first money I raised to my company was half a

16:11

$1,000,000, I think. It was a long time ago.

16:17

It's a different ball game today. Yeah. It used to be a lot of money.

16:21

It used to be a lot of money, and I gave

16:24

a big equity chunk for that half a1000000 dollars

16:28

worth of, funding. Today, it's a different ball game.

16:33

This is pay more for much smaller part

16:36

of, of, the company. So this is

16:40

a a second, difference. And lastly,

16:44

I think the ecosystem is much more mature. The

16:47

ecosystem of startups and that, that

16:51

cradle the the the founders and support them. Right? I'll give you a

16:55

few example. When you want to start,

16:58

a venture and you raise money from any VC

17:02

by the way, many many VCs are really good

17:06

VCs in, provide you,

17:09

air coverage of building your, company. They will,

17:14

introduce you to relevant potential, customer or design partners.

17:18

They will help you with future found of running funding.

17:21

Sorry. They will introduce to you

17:25

potential, key hires to your company. They used to

17:29

do it in the past, but, in in much less systemized

17:33

manner. So I think that on one

17:37

in one way, it's easier or more systematic,

17:41

to be a founder these days. However, it's more competitive

17:46

than it used to be back then. Interesting.

17:51

What do you think has driven that the kind of the evolution? Just a

17:54

few aside from inflation and being that, you know, half

17:58

$1,000,000 isn't what it used to be. Well, I I think many

18:01

factors. 1st, you know, the industry

18:05

matured in in I don't know. 20

18:09

years ago, there weren't so many tech

18:12

startups out there. And as a

18:16

derivative of that, there wasn't so so

18:20

much of, institutional money to be invested in

18:23

it. It wasn't a thing to invest in start up. It was, more of

18:27

a hobby. Now it's more, matured

18:31

and incorporated in many ways. So the the industry, like many other industries, matured

18:38

along, the way. Now, secondly,

18:42

the world is becoming more tech, savvy or more

18:45

tech driven, compared to what it was, 20 years

18:49

ago. Right? That's true. Look at the Fortune,

18:53

500, companies. Who are the companies that now lead the Fortune

18:56

500 compared to who led the Fortune 500,

19:00

least 20 years ago? Yeah. It's definitely tech heavy

19:04

now. Yep. Yes. Absolutely. No. Those are

19:08

good points. Those are good points. It's interesting to see how

19:13

just unintended consequences of, you know, things becoming more

19:16

tech, heavy has changed things like the, you know,

19:20

the S and P and, as well as the weighting of

19:24

the Dow Jones, but also kind of our daily lives, but also,

19:28

you know, the better venture capital industry. Like, it's a it's more sounds like it's

19:31

more of a proper discipline now as opposed to, you know,

19:35

a hobby. Like, you know, kinda like we said, it was kinda,

19:39

but now it's more of a professional discipline with with with

19:43

proper kind of structure and form

19:47

around it, I guess, would be a good way to put it. Yep. I agree.

19:50

I agree. It's I think it's fair to describe it that way. Yeah. I

19:54

like the way you're approaching it. It's very systematic. It it

19:57

feels, you know, it feels kind of appropriate

20:02

in that there's, that there's a framework that

20:06

you're following, a system that you're following, kind of a, like Frank

20:09

said, a disciplined approach to it. And, it it feels

20:13

self similar. So you're investing in technologies.

20:17

Maybe you're looking for or maybe part of what you're looking for

20:21

is someone who has the ability to

20:24

perhaps create methodologies to solve business problems,

20:28

technical problems. And, you know, and and in

20:32

doing that, you're applying this methodology that you've already built,

20:36

you and your partner. I think it's,

20:40

the right way to put it. In a way,

20:44

if you want to become better in what you're

20:47

doing, you must have a system. Doesn't matter

20:51

which discipline you're involved with. But if you want to constantly

20:55

improve, you must have a system. Because without a system, you won't be

20:58

able to look back in a retrospective and understand in a

21:02

systematic manner what worked and what didn't work and

21:06

how to improve it. So in order to have the the the the

21:09

the base ground to analyze what worked and what didn't

21:13

work, you need to have a a a framework, a systematic framework that

21:17

will help you to do so. So you're describing an

21:20

advanced, or mature. There's a capability maturity

21:24

models that are applied in software all the time. And what you're describing sounds

21:28

very, very similar to that. And it's,

21:32

you know, the same sort of thing that I recall from an article that

21:36

I I read. I wanna say it was back in the nineties. And it was

21:39

about the team that developed software for the Space Shuttle,

21:44

for NASA Space Shuttle here in the US. And

21:47

one of the things that, that they would do, an approach that they

21:51

took was if there was a

21:55

failure in the code, they didn't

21:58

go fix the failure. They went back to their process

22:02

and found where that failed and let that failure in the code

22:06

through. So it's it's funny that you

22:10

describe it that way because of 2 things. 1st, I think the the

22:14

people you referred to are very smarter than I am, and they

22:17

build much greater things in a in a bigger unknown,

22:21

environment. But, in in in

22:25

regards to that, internally at team 8,

22:29

the the system we've built to how to IDA,

22:33

to how to validate, to how to build a company,

22:36

we actually, we actually call it the machine and and for a

22:40

reason. We try to build a machine, that will help

22:44

us build great companies. That that really

22:48

sounds impressive, and I'd love to know more about that. And I

22:52

know we're, and I know we we have a limited amount

22:55

of time, but I I'm fascinated by that application,

23:00

you know, of this in a different field because

23:04

I've seen, people try to attempt other methodologies

23:08

that do great in software. My my number one experience was

23:12

with the scrum agile method. Yep. And I was at a

23:15

business where that was introduced, and we all learned it. I learned it there for

23:19

the first time. But then I saw the the

23:23

business, part of that try and adopt,

23:26

and and, you know, adapt from and adapt it to,

23:30

applying it to business principles and business decisions. And in that

23:33

particular instance, it failed miserably. And it was

23:37

like I don't know what they did differently because I'm I wasn't that

23:41

high up in the business. I was a low level manager. But

23:45

but seeing that having that experience, seeing that fail

23:49

was eye opening. And it's really cool to see

23:54

somebody applying this in a to a to a business model

23:58

and especially to, venture capitalism and the

24:01

funding of founders and the building of ideas,

24:06

and taking an idea from actually taking it from before the

24:10

idea even exists, just finding a founder

24:14

and then building an idea and then building that idea

24:17

to some product or service. That that's just very impressive

24:21

to me. It's exciting to hear that that's happening. It sounds like the movie

24:25

inception. Right? Like Doesn't it? Yeah. You get it? That you

24:29

can move before it's really a fully formed idea. You kinda nudge

24:33

it along. Yeah. So so you know what? Let let let

24:36

me give you a manifestation of, this process that, relates to

24:40

our discussion, today. One of the things that,

24:44

we build, at teammate as

24:47

assets that we use to, to execute upon that

24:51

motion is what we refer to as the villages. We

24:55

have a couple of them. We have the CISA village, the system

24:58

information security officer village, and,

25:02

the data village. The Cisco village obviously is

25:06

a network of, great CISOs from

25:10

across the globe. Many Fortune 500, companies CISOs

25:13

are part of, that network. And in the data village, we have,

25:17

CDOs and and head of, data operations in different

25:21

companies all across the globe. And the reason why we

25:24

build these, networks that, we work very hard to maintain

25:28

and to create engagement in these networks, it's not only because of

25:32

the of the social, for

25:38

exactly for exactly what we've talked to. For example,

25:46

recently, and we do it on a on a cadence. We reach out

25:50

to our network to learn about their day to day

25:53

and top of mind issues and challenges that they

25:57

face in the real life. And, we use

26:01

that, as an input for us to map

26:05

the world and understand which areas are,

26:09

mostly painful for, the the,

26:13

network, members of ours. And it's a great

26:16

indication for us to start investigating whether there is a potential to

26:20

build a company there. Right? So this is one thing. And the

26:24

second part of it, is later in the process. So,

26:28

let's say we build a thesis. Let's say I came up with a thesis in

26:31

a data infrastructure, vertical. Now

26:35

I really like, my thesis, but, nobody cares about the fact

26:39

that I like them. I need the network to like them. Right? Because they're their

26:43

potential, buyer eventually. So I take

26:46

the thesis that, we processed internally at, at,

26:50

team 8 that we worked on it, and I bring it to their table.

26:54

I want to hear a candid feedback from, these,

26:57

village members, what they think about it, and, why,

27:02

we don't know what we're talking about or the opposite. Why this is the the

27:06

best thing since sliced bread?

27:10

Right. Right. Yeah. It's it's almost like it takes a village,

27:13

you know, or takes Exactly. You know? Exactly. The approach.

27:17

Interesting. No. This is fascinating. Like, you know, it's it's it's fascinating to see kind of

27:25

how this this world works as someone who is kind of, you know, on

27:28

the outside and kind of I watched our tank. There's actually a

27:32

knockoff version of the show called elevator pitch, which I've

27:36

seen. You know, it's not my client's

27:39

getting shark tank, but so what

27:43

would be your advice to entrepreneurs?

27:47

Like and and, like, what would be your advice for

27:51

them in general? They have an idea. And what would

27:55

be your advice to them to, like, say, hey. I wanna execute

27:59

on this idea. Like, what how would they best approach a venture

28:02

capitalist in today's kind of terms? Right? Because it used to be you have to

28:05

write this huge document way back, then it became, oh, you see the PowerPoint

28:09

deck. Right? I'm pretty sure it's evolved to something else now. What what what

28:13

what would be your advice to somebody in that position? So,

28:17

I'm trying to address this, question, holistically and not,

28:20

tactically. First, I think

28:24

that, having a founder that, operates

28:28

in that specific domain for some time is very important.

28:33

To have an intimate relationship with a problem, I think it's a get

28:37

great indicator, for a great,

28:41

problem understanding and potentially to solve that problem. So this

28:45

is one thing. Secondly, critical

28:48

thinking. Right? Sometimes all of us,

28:52

fall in love with our ideas. Right?

28:56

And and and this could be the the one of the the

29:00

biggest detractors or or company destroyers

29:04

out there, to fall in love with what you do. I mean, you should fall

29:08

in love with it, but you should also be very judgmental

29:12

about everything you do and question every step

29:15

you take. For example, I give you the example. We come up with a

29:19

thesis that sounds to us or feel to us very

29:23

good, and we have, a lot of confidence with that. It's

29:26

nice, but it doesn't mean a lot. I need the actual market,

29:30

the actual, friction of the market,

29:34

to indicate the same thing. So we try to be

29:38

as critical thinkers as, possible.

29:45

The people, we talked about it. Building your,

29:49

founding team is crucial, for your

29:52

success. And, it's one of the those things

29:56

that I believe that you should build a team in a way that 1

30:00

+1equal 3, meaning the sum of the people,

30:04

or the the the value of the group is bigger than the sum of, the

30:08

people. And to make sure you have a a good distribution of, skill

30:12

set in that team, you have someone that is more business oriented, someone

30:16

is more technical oriented, someone is more, focused on a

30:19

product. These are great indicators or

30:23

initial great indicators for, a good founding

30:27

team, and and and and a good venture.

30:31

I I love that approach. I love the overlapping bends,

30:35

for both passion and for skill.

30:39

The thing you said earlier, though, that that really, that I wanna

30:43

go back to is the idea of an

30:46

idea, if you will. So, yes, people can,

30:50

I think, approach with a a great idea? And I see this all of the

30:54

time on a much smaller scale, just managing teams of individuals

30:58

that people will look at a a solution or look at a problem that needs

31:01

to be solved and come up with a solution that

31:05

is okay. Maybe not great, maybe it'll solve it, but

31:09

it would be so much better if they just added a couple

31:12

of, you know, a couple of tweaks to that idea. And it could

31:16

be too. That that's one part of it. The other part of working with others, and this is the crucial part

31:21

of that, building that team that you're talking about. And it's my experience

31:24

with it is that, sometimes you need

31:28

somebody to look you in the eye and say, that's a bad idea.

31:32

And it really it can go a couple of ways from there. So one way

31:35

it can go, and I think this is often overlooked, so I'm gonna mention it

31:38

first, is that they may be wrong about that. It

31:42

may be a great idea, and somebody's got a passion for it, and they

31:46

want to, to build this thing. But here's an

31:49

option. You don't you can build it, but maybe you don't have to

31:53

build it right now. If you build this other idea, which

31:57

is, you know, what everyone agrees that you should build, now

32:00

everyone's engaged. You've got the power of all of those

32:04

blends of skills and passions, and you can

32:07

produce this product now. Go ahead and do that. Spend a few

32:11

years on it. Make your money, and then you can go off and build your

32:15

passionate project. And it could be that that also

32:18

succeeds. So that just I that's just that take

32:22

on it. I I really like that idea, though, the team. I

32:26

think anybody who's ever worked in a good team has enjoyed

32:30

that experience and seeks to repeat that experience because it

32:33

is truly an awesome thing. It's a great feeling when the

32:37

team clicks. I couldn't agree more

32:41

with you, Andy. One thing that,

32:45

was, I heard between the words of

32:49

what you said is something that I also relate to, and

32:53

this is the process. Right? We talked about the team.

32:57

We talked about, the perspective of being a judgmental or

33:01

critical thinker about everything you do. But one thing that I think

33:04

is overlooked sometime is the process itself. I mean,

33:09

I hear on a on an average week at least

33:13

20, 30 new ideas. Right? Ideas

33:17

are at best at best, 20% of the success of

33:21

a new start up at best. 80% if not more, it's all about the execution of

33:28

the idea. Right. The execution of the idea. And,

33:32

there there are many many layers to this statement.

33:36

You start with the idea. Right? But, then reality

33:40

happens. Right? And you see that, yeah. And

33:44

then you see that the idea well, the the the origin

33:48

of the idea is right, but, you need to constantly

33:52

navigate the idea, the product vision,

33:56

you know, with the conjunction of, the reality. And Sure.

33:59

The best teams, others are the ones that

34:03

can navigate, in a very up,

34:07

open and critical thinking way the product

34:10

from the the initial idea to the actual,

34:15

embodiment or the actual manifestation of the product that it that

34:19

they will, end up with. So the

34:22

process itself is super important in my mind.

34:26

Yeah. I I so agree with that. We have a there's a a famous

34:30

military statement, but what you said reminded me of a modification of

34:33

it. It's like no idea survives contact with

34:37

reality. Mike Tyson is

34:41

also known for for a similar quote where everybody has a plan until they

34:45

get punched in the face. That's right. But I think I think that

34:48

ties into something, you had said earlier, Adiad, was, you know, like, you you you

34:52

wanna love your idea and you wanna fall in love with your idea, but I

34:55

don't think you want your love to blind your common sense.

34:59

So here is a a a quote I really like, to use.

35:03

Don't fall in love with your solution. Fall in love with the problem.

35:07

Right? Make sure you have yeah. Make sure you're

35:11

you're very, very familiar with the problem.

35:15

You really relate to it, you understand it in a very intimate

35:18

manner, the right solution will evolve, will

35:22

evolve throughout the process if if if you're a strong leader.

35:28

Right. Wow. Yes. That's good. That's

35:31

really good. That's a quotable. Definitely. I

35:35

know we're short on time, and, normally, we do all these questions, but I think

35:38

we can do an abbreviated one. I think the first question I'd have for you

35:42

is how did you get how did you find your way into into

35:46

being a VC? Right? Like, did did it find you or did you find

35:49

it? So probably a little bit of both. So,

35:53

as I mentioned, before I joined T9, I was, I spent

35:57

15 years in a company I founded, a AI analytics

36:01

company. And it was a great success. Right? When I left the company, it was

36:05

at 100 and $60,000,000 of reoccurring revenue, and we had

36:09

more than 800, employees, globally. But

36:12

I did it for a very long period of time, 15 years. And I

36:16

started that company out of college. It's almost, the the cliche

36:20

of, founding up, a startup. You're

36:24

doing brilliant. Yeah. And I wanted to to

36:28

to, you know, to experience few other things.

36:32

So when I started to have these existential thoughts, I informed the board

36:36

of directors of, my company, and it took some time until I departed.

36:41

But, during my last

36:44

few years at Sisense, I also became an

36:48

active angel investor. So I tried to start,

36:53

giving back to the community of, entrepreneurship in Tel Aviv,

36:58

by meeting founders and offering them my candid

37:01

support and advice. That's it. And, I started to do

37:05

that. And every once in a while, I met up, founders or a

37:08

team that I got really excited, from. And,

37:12

I I I asked them if I can also invest some of my

37:16

own money. And this is how I started my, angel investment,

37:21

journey. When I departed from teammate,

37:25

You mean Sisense? Yep. Sorry. Sisense.

37:29

I, had a lot of free time on my plate. So,

37:33

naturally, I became more and more active

37:37

in my angel investments. If you ask

37:41

me when I when I left, Sisense, if I'll, if I

37:44

want to become a VC, the answer would have probably been

37:48

no way. I'm a founder. I'm a founder. I'm going

37:52

to start a new company. And, I was very close

37:56

to start up, a new company, after Sisense,

37:59

but the reality is that it didn't happen. Now

38:03

I can talk for hours about the psychological,

38:07

reasons for that, but it didn't happen. And,

38:11

I I can think of why not, but, eventually,

38:14

after, I became, quite, active

38:18

angel investor, I met the teammate, people.

38:22

And, they talked to me for quite some time, and I remember the first

38:25

few talk, that they asked me about the, about potentially

38:29

working together. I told them I will never become a VC.

38:33

But after some kind of, relationship for a long term,

38:38

they came to me and told me, but, Aviad, you you were saying you're

38:41

not you don't want to be a VC, but you actually invest in companies for

38:45

your living. This is what you're doing currently. So join us. Don't

38:49

fool yourself. Look at the mirror and join us, and it made

38:52

sense. And, this is how I became a,

38:56

a VC. You understand? That sounds

39:00

like, Frank and I talk often about divine appointments, and

39:04

it sounds very much like like one of those. You happen to run into

39:08

the these people and it happened or, you know, your first

39:11

reaction was not positive. That's great.

39:15

Our next question is, what is your favorite part of your current

39:19

gig? Very easy answer. Working

39:22

with great founders. By far, meeting the

39:26

teams, identify that these are great,

39:30

great entrepreneurs. This is what makes me tick. And

39:34

spending as much time, with them. I don't care doing what? Spending

39:37

time with them? This is my favorite part of, my current gig. That

39:41

is awesome. Very cool. We

39:45

have 3 complete the sentences. When I'm not working, I enjoy blank.

39:50

Well, it's a little bit embarrassing because, I don't have

39:54

many hobbies. I really like, I really like, working.

39:58

I I mean, obviously, my family. I love my family. So if I have spare

40:02

time, I'm gonna I'm gonna spend it with, my wife and,

40:06

kids. But if I'm not doing that, I'm probably working.

40:10

No. I'm right there with you. Don't be embarrassed. You're I

40:14

I don't know if you're in good company, but you have a lot of company.

40:19

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's an interesting way to phrase

40:22

it. So our second

40:26

complete sentence, I think the coolest thing in technology today

40:30

is blank. Oh, so many cool new things in

40:34

technology. I think the most prominent one is the

40:37

AI revolution we're all experiencing. It's

40:41

disrupting so many verticals, and

40:44

very, very quickly, probably more, or faster than

40:48

anything I've seen in the past. I thought when the

40:51

cloud movement started, I don't know, 10 years ago, I thought this

40:55

is the the quickest, evolution or revolution

40:59

in technologies that I've seen. Nothing compared to, the speed

41:03

of AI, and and how quickly it changes so

41:06

many in it's in I thought we had reached kind of, a

41:15

certain plateau of pace. But then when

41:19

Chat GPT came out, I mean, it did just, like, just

41:23

accelerated. You know? What do you think made Cheggipt,

41:28

becoming the pivotal thing in the perception of everyone that

41:32

is, the reason for the the

41:35

change in perception around AI? I

41:39

personally think is the way that it was presented.

41:44

It has you know, there's 2 factors to

41:48

it. 1, it's a chatbot. Right? So people can kinda relate to that. Right? That's

41:52

it the the the and big deal. Right? There's been chatbots around for number

41:55

of years. But I think the real thing that blew people away

41:59

was it destroyed the notion that AI can't be

42:03

creative. Well, this is very close to what I think.

42:07

Mhmm. I was dazzled. I mean, I heard

42:10

about bots. I played with many bots in the past. But the first

42:14

time I started to play with JetJPT, I was dazzled by the

42:18

quality, how good it was. And it was light

42:22

years, better than anything else, any other

42:26

chatbot that I've seen, and and it was very apparent that this is a

42:29

revolution for me at least. That was that was my reaction. Right? So

42:33

when it came out, I was presenting because we we launched a product to Red

42:37

Hat about the same time and at at AWS reinvent.

42:41

Right? So I was kind of in AWS reinvent

42:44

land. And I go I get to the airport at

42:48

Vegas because early because when you wanna leave Vegas, you do you wanna

42:52

leave. Right? So I get to the airport early, and I'm like, you

42:55

know, I a lot of people I know have been, like, raving about chat GBP

42:58

and saying how great it is. And I'm like, alright. Alright. So let me just

43:01

ask it. How do I start how do I get started with SageMaker? I think

43:05

that was the original question I asked it. And I had a expectation of,

43:09

well, you do this, you do this, you do this. But, like, the the the

43:12

answer behind it was so coherent and so cogent.

43:16

Like you said, it was light years beyond my expectations.

43:21

And I'm continually amazed at, like, what it can do. Right? Like, it

43:24

and it blows my mind to this day and this is, like, what's

43:28

going on 2 years later. Absolutely. Absolutely.

43:36

Alright. Andy, you want the the next complete the sentence or has the allergies

43:40

gotten you? Alright. I will I will ask you for him so we stay on some kinda

43:48

sketchy. Sneezing. He's probably sneezing. Alright. Complete the sentence.

43:52

I look forward to the day when I can use technology to blank.

43:58

Take away the vast majority of my day to day

44:02

bureaucracy. Right? Dealing with the bank and taxes.

44:05

And I think we're getting quickly towards that.

44:09

Quickly towards that. I'm involved in a company that,

44:13

is actually building, disruptive technology in,

44:18

filing your taxes every year. And they do it, yeah, doing

44:22

it automatically in a in a very good manner.

44:26

I met up, founding team in in legal deck that they

44:29

build, a technology that can summarize

44:34

thousands of, legal document very, very quickly and just

44:38

do, the red lines very, very quickly and replace,

44:42

you know, the the tedious work of, endless, hours of,

44:46

lawyers in that regard. So I think we're at the right direction

44:49

towards that, but, it's a brave new word, I

44:53

think. I don't know what the tax code is outside the US, but

44:57

in the US, it's very convoluted and confusing. Yep. So if you can have an

45:00

AI that you can explain it to you like you're 5, you know what I

45:03

mean, that would be very useful. There are a few very exciting

45:07

technologies that, are after that goal, so stay tuned.

45:11

I will eagerly be awaiting that.

45:15

So share something different about yourself. It's a family podcast.

45:19

Like, it's a it's a family podcast in the sense of,

45:24

we went into this before. Like, when I drive to where

45:27

my my my wife's family is, it's about 3 hours. It's about 1 Joe Rogan

45:31

episode away, but I can't listen.

45:37

That's influence. Right? You measure time and distance based on your

45:40

podcast. Right? That is true.

45:44

But, so I don't listen to

45:47

it because I have kids in the car. So what that's

45:51

the rationale behind it. So what's your, you know, what

45:55

what's, you know would you answer that? Yeah.

45:58

So first thing that comes to mind that, not many

46:02

people know about me, I, really love traveling,

46:06

and I used to to backpack in South

46:09

America for almost a year. Oh, wow. A while

46:12

ago. A while ago. But backpack by myself

46:16

as a decision. I wanted to backpack by myself in

46:20

South America, and I did it for 11 months. Wow.

46:24

That is very interesting. You must have gotten a lot of, like, clarity on

46:28

things. Like, just along with your thoughts. It feels amazing. I

46:32

have to admit. That's awesome. So, Audible is a sponsor.

46:36

And if you go to the data driven book dotcom,

46:40

you can sign up for a month. And if you decide to

46:44

subscribe after that, then Frank and I get to buy a coffee.

46:49

It it works out well because we both like coffee. We treasure every

46:52

cup. Is there a a good audio book

46:56

or just a a book that has influenced you,

46:59

impacted you? Yeah.

47:03

Actually, there is one. It's called the mom's test. I don't know if you heard

47:07

about it, but a few of the thing,

47:11

that, we talked earlier relate to that book. And the mom

47:14

test is a book about how, this is

47:18

my interpretation of it, how to properly validate

47:22

ideas. Right? In a very, as I mentioned, a very

47:26

critical thinking way and doubtful way,

47:29

that I usually advise, founders that I meet to read. I

47:33

think it's very valuable. Interesting. Okay. I

47:37

see it on Audible. I tested the link earlier, the

47:41

data driven book.com, and it took me right over to Audible like it was

47:44

supposed to, and it's by Rob Fitzpatrick. Is that accurate?

47:48

Okay. The mom test. I love that title. Yep.

47:52

Very cool. You know, in a in a nutshell in a nutshell,

47:57

when, when you question people about idea, it talks

48:01

about few things we we've mentioned is to focus on the problem and not the

48:05

solution. Right? If I'll tell you, hey, guys. I have an idea for a great

48:08

app on your iPhone that organize your icons. I don't know. What do you think

48:12

about it? And you'll probably say, oh, it's cool. That

48:16

feedback is meaningless. I learned nothing from that feedback.

48:20

Right? Right. So how you structure the questionnaire? How you structure

48:23

the discussion in order to properly validate the problems, the solution, and

48:27

such is at the at the core of this book, and I think it's

48:31

super valuable. Well, I love it when authors read their own work,

48:35

and he does. And so I grabbed it. It's, about

48:39

almost 4 hours long, and that's that makes it kind of a

48:42

short audiobook, which is also, perfect. I love that as

48:46

well. So I appreciate you, recommending that, and I'm going

48:50

to read that, and then I'm gonna connect with you on LinkedIn so I can

48:53

give you feedback on that, on what I would do at work. I would love

48:57

that. Well, this has been an

49:01

amazing show, Frank. Absolutely. I I it

49:05

was it was a pleasure, Aviat. Yep. Where where

49:08

people reach out to find out more about you? That's what I was gonna

49:12

say. You're most welcome, and I'm very accessible. If

49:16

you want to talk again, just, have my email. Send me an

49:19

email. I travel a lot to the US. So next time on, on the

49:23

East Coast, I get to New York a lot. So if you're there, I'll be

49:27

happy to meet for I'll buy you coffee. You said you like coffee.

49:31

That would be outstanding, sir. Thank you so much. So if,

49:34

where can people learn about your, the company you're working with now?

49:39

Sorry. Say it again. So where where might

49:43

people learn more about the, the group you're working with now? Team

49:47

8. Team 8. Yes. So, we can

49:51

do multiple things. 1st, check our website,

49:54

teammate, dot v c. You can read all about

49:58

this team 8, the motion, the the portfolio companies, the

50:02

founders, and such. And,

50:05

if you need more information, I'll be more than happy to share with you, you

50:09

know, marketing information and everything you need.

50:13

So that is for our listeners team, the word team, and then the

50:17

number 8 dot v c. Correct.

50:20

Pretty awesome. Okay. Excellent. Andy and

50:24

Frank, I had a blast. Thank you very much. Same we did

50:28

too. Same Learned a lot of you. Yeah. Great great

50:32

conversation. Thank you so much. Well, excellent. You. With that, we'll

50:35

let the nice British AI lady finish the show. Well, that's a wrap on

50:39

another episode of data driven. We hope you enjoyed our chat

50:43

with Aviad Harrell from team 8 as much as we did. If you

50:47

found this episode insightful, please show your support by

50:50

liking, subscribing, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast

50:54

platform. Your support helps us continue to bring you

50:57

fascinating conversations and the latest in AI, data

51:01

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51:08

Until next time, keep learning, keep innovating, and as