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1:01

working with me at my counseling center.

1:03

Many years he revealed to me that

1:05

he was in fact an alien and

1:07

which sounded superficial and he could have

1:10

been a good liar until he was

1:12

able to demonstrate that he was more

1:14

than just a human. And he was

1:16

friends with me for many years and

1:19

I never knew it until he was

1:21

able to demonstrate this to me. They

1:23

have a unique way of showing themselves.

1:25

And I'm just wondering if anybody

1:27

else has this experience. Ladies

1:30

and gentlemen, welcome back to a very

1:32

special episode of debriefed. My name is

1:35

Chris Ramsey, and today I'm here to

1:37

introduce you a conversation that I had

1:39

recently with Randall Nickerson. I just wanted

1:41

to come here to sort of preface

1:43

the interview. For those of you unfamiliar

1:45

with Randall's story, him and his sister

1:48

Glinda have been abducted multiple times. They

1:50

were featured in the 90s on shows

1:52

like Oprah and Good Morning America. One

1:54

of Dr. Max Patience, Randy here says

1:56

his abduction occurred while he was awake

1:58

while he was awake. They had put

2:01

me out for a little over

2:03

an hour and when I came

2:05

to, and yeah, I have a

2:07

hard time with this. Why? Um,

2:10

because I don't want to believe

2:12

it. I really don't. Why? It,

2:14

um, I mean, it's totally made

2:16

me question. what life's about and

2:19

it's stirred my life up a

2:21

lot. It was a very popular

2:23

case of abduction which pretty much

2:25

upended their lives especially Randall's. To

2:28

this day Randall has a pretty

2:30

hard time talking about it and

2:32

has since basically turned his entire

2:34

life into... reporting on and investigating

2:37

the UFO and NIH phenomenon. Now

2:39

this was a last-minute podcast. Nothing

2:41

was planned. He just happened to

2:43

be in town and out of

2:46

respect for Randall, he didn't want

2:48

to talk about his own personal

2:50

abduction story and I didn't want

2:52

to press him on that either.

2:55

But Randall's story isn't simply defined

2:57

by his abduction. See Randall is

2:59

also an amazing filmmaker and documentarian

3:01

and recently he put out the

3:04

documentary. the aerial phenomenon. From all

3:06

over us involved we were phoning

3:08

the BBC to say we've seen

3:10

something weird. There were three of

3:13

us at sword. Myself, the co-pilot

3:15

and the pilot in other aircraft.

3:17

No means or nothing. Shiny all

3:19

over thing. Ariel School 19th, September

3:22

24. Did you tell me what

3:24

he saw on Friday? The silver

3:26

thing in amongst this clump of

3:28

trees. We saw this mac figure

3:31

running. His face was like this

3:33

and his eyes were down here.

3:35

I just thought it was some

3:37

kind of failure for the dog.

3:40

Pump. When you looked at those

3:42

children, they were absolutely credible. And

3:44

whereabouts was it? Did she know

3:46

the tree over there? There was

3:49

a big group of kids pointing

3:51

and making a noise and shouting

3:53

and screaming. The panic spread. Am

3:55

I safe or am I not

3:58

safe? He's a Harvard psychiatrist. Meet

4:00

Dr. John Mac, a believer in

4:02

aliens from outer space. We came

4:04

away convinced that an extraordinary event

4:07

occurred here. I think they want

4:09

people to know that we're actually

4:11

making harm on this world. Would

4:13

you like to see him again?

4:15

Yes. And if you saw him

4:18

again, what would you do? I'll

4:20

ask him some questions. What would

4:22

you like to ask him? I'll

4:24

ask him, what is he doing

4:27

on earth and what does he

4:29

want with us? Basically picking up

4:31

John Mac's work of where he

4:33

left off and continuing his research

4:36

into the mass sighting that took

4:38

place in Ruiz and Bobway. Over

4:40

60 children reported seeing this craft

4:42

and two beings exiting this craft.

4:45

They subsequently drew images and even

4:47

wrote down exactly what they remember

4:49

happening. And I also just want

4:51

to say that at times Randall

4:54

during this podcast will seem a

4:56

little bit... reluctant to talk about

4:58

certain things and that definitely stems

5:00

from his own personal experiences. So

5:03

this is just to give you

5:05

a little bit of context on

5:07

who he is. He recently also

5:09

appeared on the Danny Jones podcast

5:12

and I highly recommend you check

5:14

that out if you want to

5:16

know a little bit more about

5:18

his personal history. Stick around after

5:21

the podcast if you like. We

5:23

recorded a little extra podcast for

5:25

the interns only and you could

5:27

do that by going to Patreon

5:30

or clicking join on the memberships.

5:32

And yeah, thanks for watching. First

5:34

of all, thank you so much

5:36

for doing this Randall. It was

5:39

a pleasure. I got, you know,

5:41

we got to know each other

5:43

in the last couple of days,

5:45

spent New Year's together, just a

5:48

joy to meet you and to

5:50

get to know you as a

5:52

person, you know, in the little

5:54

time that we had, it was

5:57

just really pleasant. So really made

5:59

my New Year Year Year's meeting

6:01

you. For those of you who

6:03

don't know Randall's work, we're going

6:06

to be talking a lot about

6:08

something that's extremely fascinating. One of

6:10

the biggest cases in history in

6:12

terms of mass sighting, you know,

6:15

Randall's a really good filmmaker known

6:17

for his documentary Ariel Phenomenon. It

6:19

just highlights one of the most

6:21

significant sightings in human history that

6:24

was ever documented initially by like

6:26

John Mac and then you kind

6:28

of picked up the torch and

6:30

continued that and then developed relationships

6:33

obviously with the people there. And

6:35

this case, you know, not only

6:37

is just awesome in terms of

6:39

data for people who are interested

6:41

in uphology, but for you became

6:44

a really big part of your

6:46

life. like that you this case

6:48

is really really close to you

6:50

and so you know for me

6:53

it's a bit of an honor

6:55

to even be able to talk

6:57

about this case with you because

6:59

I think like you'll be the

7:02

closest person to that event that

7:04

I'll possibly ever meet right so

7:06

for me this is this is

7:08

really a once-a-lifetime opportunity so thank

7:11

you for being here thank you

7:13

to me I really appreciated meeting

7:15

you and Love the magic bro.

7:17

Yeah, thank you It was really

7:20

I've enjoyed Our time together a

7:22

lot like I feel yeah, I

7:24

like you genuinely like you as

7:26

a person. Thank you. I appreciate

7:29

you You know, and that's nice.

7:31

Yeah, it's very disarming in a

7:33

sense. You know like hey, I

7:35

can be myself with you good.

7:38

Yeah. Yeah, I just I appreciate

7:40

you appreciate you as well and

7:42

Didn't expect to do an interview

7:44

or anything. I'm like, hey, I

7:47

like this guy. Yeah, I know

7:49

this is last minute. This is

7:51

yeah But the magic thing is

7:53

cool because you actually you know

7:56

people might not know this about

7:58

you probably don't know so about

8:00

you, but you like dabbled a

8:02

little bit in some slight of

8:05

hand and you know we kind

8:07

of connected on that the first

8:09

time that you I was like

8:11

I do magic and you're like

8:14

oh and like you're like I

8:16

did a little bit of that

8:18

too so I noticed when I

8:20

was performing to like people I

8:23

see how you were looking at

8:25

something and how you're reacting to

8:27

something is very similar to how

8:29

I would react to something so

8:32

you already had like a mind

8:34

for it and understood that there

8:36

was something behind something behind the

8:38

trick. So that's cool. I'm still

8:41

trying to figure out how that

8:43

got on life. I could get

8:45

if it was one mark. That's

8:47

a cross. I'm like, damn. That

8:50

was really, really cool. I'm glad

8:52

you like that. It's a cool,

8:54

it's a cool gift. You know,

8:56

I reminisced on it on the

8:59

drive home and how it's such

9:01

a cool gift because you even

9:03

said that. You told me, you

9:05

know, to be able to impart

9:07

sort of wonder onto people. It's

9:10

just like a really. nice gift

9:12

to have and it just reminded

9:14

me so much of of that

9:16

and then like thinking about that

9:19

because you know I forget that

9:21

sometimes to take it for granted

9:23

that it's just a trick you

9:25

know but I set out learning

9:28

it to give that gift of

9:30

wonder and and so thank for

9:32

reminding me of that that was

9:34

it really made me think I

9:37

was like it is I am

9:39

lucky to have this sort of

9:41

I don't want to call it

9:43

a gift but you know I've

9:46

practiced it a lot but you

9:48

know I've practiced it It helps.

9:50

Yeah. I mean, I don't even

9:52

know where we would even start

9:55

with this. For people who aren't

9:57

familiar, this was 1994. Yeah, September

9:59

16th, 1994. And it was in,

10:01

it was in a town, right,

10:04

town of Rua or? Actually, it's

10:06

on the border Rua in a,

10:08

guramandi, actually. Okay. But Rua is

10:10

right, it's right on the border.

10:13

at a primary school. Yeah. Basically,

10:15

K through seven. How far removed

10:17

from like the population is this,

10:19

is this school? It's, it's a

10:22

little bit off the beaten path,

10:24

isn't it? It is. Yeah. It

10:26

is. You know, you get out

10:28

there, there is villages, you know,

10:31

and densely populated. Roos, very densely

10:33

populated village. But it's you know,

10:35

the farmers actually started it in

10:37

91 because they were sending their

10:40

kids to Harari, which is the

10:42

capital And is it the capital?

10:44

I think it is. I'm unfamiliar.

10:46

Sorry. Yeah, I've just like I'd

10:49

like to double check my work

10:51

Harari's and Baba. Yeah, so yeah,

10:53

the farmers were you know wanted

10:55

to set up a school and

10:58

there was a you know, house

11:00

and then they built the school

11:02

over the years. And then they,

11:04

you know, brought, so the farmers,

11:07

kids, missionary kids, kids from all

11:09

over. Yeah. And the, in the

11:11

villages as well, had it, it's

11:13

just an amazing, it's a beautiful,

11:16

it's like a college campus, it's

11:18

huge, you know, real estate wise.

11:20

And just a, it's a beautiful

11:22

school, beautiful people. You

11:25

know, it's not wealthy,

11:27

you know what I

11:29

mean? In a way,

11:31

it's just not that

11:33

way and people don't

11:35

do it for that

11:37

reason. A lot of

11:39

heart there and the

11:41

people I met, I

11:43

mean all of them.

11:45

The kids involved in

11:47

the story, like when

11:49

I started, way in

11:51

2007, and slowly got

11:53

to know these people

11:55

and teachers and parents

11:57

and... everybody involved in

11:59

this case. Yeah, you,

12:01

you, you, you get

12:03

to know. and love

12:06

them as people, you

12:08

know. I just have

12:10

to mention because one

12:12

of our, one of

12:14

the kids had passed

12:16

away. Yeah. Emily. Mm-hmm.

12:18

Just, it affected a

12:20

lot of people. She

12:22

was 38 years old

12:24

and just loved her

12:26

as a creative person.

12:29

and heart. You know, she's

12:31

in the film and I

12:33

spend a lot of time

12:35

with her and just saw

12:37

her do some really just

12:39

giving from her heart to

12:41

people that had less, you

12:43

know, where we're struggling, like

12:45

little moments I would see

12:47

that. And I don't even

12:49

know what to say. I

12:51

think everybody that knew her

12:53

is still in shock that

12:55

shock that She's no longer

12:57

no longer with us And

12:59

I have to say the

13:01

other kids too like I

13:04

call them kids, but they're

13:06

you know, and they were

13:08

kids Yeah, but they're just

13:10

I feel like they It's

13:12

not been easy for them,

13:14

you know to come forward

13:16

or Have me tell their

13:18

story, you know, and then

13:20

all these other people come

13:22

in with different intentions Yeah,

13:24

because it was, you know,

13:26

when I was working on

13:28

it, I was, I knew

13:30

it was a great story.

13:32

And then when other people

13:34

found out, they kind of

13:36

jumped in like, oh, yeah,

13:38

we want this, you know,

13:40

and they didn't have the

13:42

same caring. They see money

13:44

signs? Money signs and, you

13:46

know, there's, there's, there's heart

13:48

there, there's heart in your

13:50

interactions and, you know, I

13:52

mean, it's there's one thing.

13:54

There's one thing that I'll

13:56

say, first of all, sorry

13:58

for your loss. I'm sorry

14:00

for that. And I know

14:02

that, I know that, you

14:05

know, I heard that you

14:07

guys were very close in

14:09

Luigi as well, who's here

14:11

off camera, by the way,

14:13

who's also very close. And

14:15

they're family. I mean, yeah.

14:17

They're, that, they're an amazing

14:19

family. Wonderful. Yeah. Wonderful. There

14:21

were tears in that. I

14:23

don't think I've been to

14:25

a funeral that I've heard

14:27

so many people crying. Yeah.

14:29

She had a lot of

14:31

effect on people and anyway,

14:33

but the family just put

14:35

out love and respect to

14:37

the family. Yeah, that, you

14:39

know, as someone who is

14:41

coming into this space with,

14:43

you know, intentions to... shine

14:45

a light on some of

14:47

this partially for my own

14:49

curiosity, you know, admittedly, but

14:51

also to give people voice

14:53

and make this a little

14:55

bit normalized and stuff. You

14:57

know, I have good intentions

14:59

going into this, but there

15:01

is a sticky sort of

15:03

situation that you can put

15:05

yourself in when speaking to

15:08

experiences because the last thing

15:10

that I want to do

15:12

is feel like I'm exploiting

15:14

anyone. Right. And that's, I

15:16

think. I think just like

15:18

extremely important to be aware

15:20

of because, you know, when

15:22

dealing with people, you're not

15:24

only dealing with people who

15:26

have seen something amazing, you're

15:28

dealing with people who are,

15:30

you know, traumatized. And, you

15:32

know, the last thing you

15:34

want to do is, you

15:36

know, be pushy or be

15:38

like, but, you know, from

15:40

your angle coming into this,

15:42

like, how aware were you

15:44

of that, like, I mean,

15:46

hyper-aware is my guess, but

15:48

like, like, like, like, Like

15:50

how did you navigate that?

15:52

This episode is... brought to

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hellofresh.com. You know, just like

17:06

being very honest with them,

17:08

like I'm not here to

17:10

really hear your story. I'm

17:12

not here to exploit it

17:14

or to, um, the kind

17:17

of understanding that What it

17:19

was was was was impactful.

17:21

I mean Anybody you talk

17:23

to that's have had this

17:25

happen They are gonna remember

17:27

it till the day that

17:29

I they will remember that

17:31

time and That's the kind

17:33

of experiences and it affects

17:36

your whole Development depending on

17:38

how old you were whatever

17:40

happen. So just trust you

17:42

know trying to say you

17:44

know, I really want to

17:46

hear what what put you

17:48

went through It's been hard

17:50

I think throughout history because

17:52

people really don't understand what

17:55

people go through. The ontological

17:57

shock of having like... that's

17:59

not supposed to exist or

18:01

be real and all of

18:03

a sudden you can't go

18:05

back there anymore because you've

18:07

seen it you've seen it

18:09

and it changes a lot

18:11

for those people they go

18:13

through so much but that

18:16

people don't realize it's sort

18:18

of callously misunderstood and in

18:20

that process what it happens

18:22

is those people You know,

18:24

over time, say, I don't

18:26

want to talk about it

18:28

anymore. People don't understand. I'm

18:30

not going to talk about

18:32

it anymore. So they get

18:35

quiet over time. The more

18:37

they are public, the more

18:39

you pay consequences for that.

18:41

Yeah. And it's unfortunate because

18:43

it's really important that what

18:45

witnesses have to say. Yeah,

18:47

and I mean that's it's

18:49

a great point and on

18:51

top of that you have

18:53

also People trying to actively

18:56

shut you up You know,

18:58

which is like the counter

19:00

You know energy yeah, to

19:02

that you got people who

19:04

are like no you need

19:06

to share this and you

19:08

got people being like if

19:10

you share that something bad's

19:12

gonna happen to you and

19:15

so you know That's such

19:17

a murky territory to to

19:19

navigate as a filmmaker as

19:21

a documentarian, but also it's

19:23

just a person trying to

19:25

talk to somebody with an

19:27

experience. I mean, it's just

19:29

such a touchy area. It

19:31

is. It's very personal. And

19:34

with children even more so,

19:36

I would think, right? Yeah.

19:38

How were the, how were

19:40

the parents with all of

19:42

this when you were, you

19:44

know, were they involved at

19:46

any capacity? Did you see

19:48

any pushback? Did you? Oh,

19:50

yeah. Very much. There, well,

19:52

it was mainly around religion,

19:55

right? And then it depended

19:57

on. The fascinating thing about

19:59

the school was the diversity

20:01

in that school, religious-wise and

20:03

people from all different colors

20:05

and... backgrounds from different countries.

20:07

It was just, it was

20:09

a really interesting mix of

20:11

people. You just don't really

20:14

see a lot of schools.

20:16

Yeah, it was very international,

20:18

I would say. And you

20:20

had, so you had the

20:22

indigenous people and you had

20:24

missionaries and you had government,

20:26

their children, you know, all

20:28

over the place. Australia,

20:31

you just had every, so anyway,

20:33

the piece is, that was interesting,

20:36

you know, and then how each

20:38

parent, the parents or how they

20:40

interpreted it from what they were

20:43

brought up with. Yeah, so yeah,

20:45

you had a few parents that

20:47

were very pushing back big time.

20:50

You had a lot of parents

20:52

that were that my child, you

20:54

know, were very supportive of their

20:57

children like that this is not

20:59

my child would not do this

21:01

right like they knew their children

21:04

well they stood up for their

21:06

children wow like that was like

21:08

it's not even in the movie

21:11

mhm so much footage in interviews

21:13

that I did that just didn't

21:15

if it would have been a

21:18

three-hour movie yeah I mean time

21:20

was there I wouldn't have mine

21:23

to I know we've been that's

21:25

the next thing is you know

21:27

we were wanted to do the

21:30

the director's cut it's still hmm

21:32

yeah that's that's difficult though as

21:34

as someone who you know I

21:37

do a lot of editing myself

21:39

like when you're when you got

21:41

so much you know quote-unquote gold

21:44

you know in in a project

21:46

like chopping that up it's got

21:48

to be Tough. And they call

21:51

it killing your babies. Killing your

21:53

babies. That's what I say too.

21:55

Yeah. It's a tough job. Is

21:58

there... Is there any scene in

22:00

there that you kind of regretted

22:02

not leaving in? Is there anything

22:05

that you were like, maybe that

22:07

should have been in? Not, I

22:09

mean, for that time? No. We

22:12

had to get it to, you

22:14

know, it was an hour and

22:17

41. Or yeah. Was that the

22:19

mandate? Basically an hour and a

22:21

half. Okay. Right, 90 minutes. And

22:24

so we're in. Yeah. So we

22:26

were a little over that. But.

22:28

That's the best we could do

22:31

without, and it was, we had

22:33

a three hour solid. Yeah, wow.

22:35

And so given the time constraints,

22:38

I think it was well done.

22:40

Chris Seward was amazing editor and

22:42

story editor. But it was a

22:45

challenge whittling it down. Once we

22:47

had the three hour, we're like,

22:49

damn, this is really, really good,

22:52

but. You know, people have to

22:54

use the bathroom around that time

22:56

for an hour and a half.

22:59

So that's kind of why it's

23:01

all I see based around that

23:04

and the tensions man, but yeah,

23:06

the the there's many scenes, you

23:08

know, I was just showing Luigi

23:11

and a few other people the

23:13

the scene with Emily making the

23:15

decision to go to Africa, which

23:18

we didn't include in it. He's

23:20

but it's just I love that

23:22

scene that scene. Yeah, we shot

23:25

at that Norad up in the

23:27

St. Adolf, I think. Yeah, yeah.

23:29

The old Norad base. Yeah, beautiful.

23:32

Yeah. So yeah, there's so many

23:34

of the scenes and you know,

23:36

we had a good half hour

23:39

just on the spiritual, the natives,

23:41

native indigenous chiefs and medicine men

23:43

who we went to see. Yeah.

23:46

And Emily went to see. several

23:48

of them with us and that

23:50

was a very large piece that

23:53

was really well cut together, but

23:55

it was a half hour of

23:58

just that. Because that's fascinating. This

24:00

is not new to them. It's

24:02

not new to them at all.

24:05

They weren't surprised by any of

24:07

it. Wow. They've seen them themselves.

24:09

Did you find? That was amazing

24:12

because I'm shooting about Ariel. And

24:14

then the chief starts talking about

24:16

like little details. I'm like, oh

24:19

my God, he has seen them

24:21

himself. Like, and I'm and I

24:23

want to stop. everything and go,

24:26

well, I'm gonna, I need to

24:28

take this guy and toss him.

24:30

You know, and I didn't get

24:33

the chance to do that, except

24:35

with a few people, a few

24:37

of the medicine men, chief. Whoa.

24:40

The village, you know, doctors, basically.

24:42

That's exciting. They were so familiar

24:45

with it. It was just, how

24:47

was Emily with that, like, was

24:49

that comforting to her? Was that,

24:52

yeah, very much. Finally someone who

24:54

gets it like yeah, so we

24:56

in the movie we we show

24:59

fits and pieces in that but

25:01

it was much more in depth.

25:03

Yep. Then they yeah that was

25:06

I mean it's fascinating for me

25:08

yeah to be over in Africa

25:10

three trips I went by the

25:13

way just three times I was

25:15

I spent a year and three

25:17

months in Africa living there was

25:20

living there. What was your favorite

25:22

thing about Africa aside from I

25:24

know that the people is amazing

25:27

and the scenery is amazing, but

25:29

what's something that just like you

25:32

took home with you? The wildlife?

25:34

The wildlife. When I wasn't doing

25:36

interviews, I was out, I drive

25:39

it, self-driving Savari. Really? Oh yeah.

25:41

Where are you seeing? Like, oh

25:43

God, everything. They got everything out

25:46

there? Everything. The lions and stuff

25:48

and all that? Oh yeah. Really?

25:50

I was out there for days

25:53

and days and days and days.

25:55

The between interviews I'd be like

25:57

okay, I got like I found

26:00

this child or person One of

26:02

the witnesses or their parents or

26:04

somebody else that witnessed it in

26:07

the area. And I'm like, okay,

26:09

I've got three days and I

26:11

would go into a park, you

26:14

know. Wow. When I first got

26:16

there, I went on a proper

26:18

safari and I learned as much

26:21

as I could. And then I

26:23

started, you know, meeting more people

26:26

that basically were telling me this

26:28

is what you don't do. Yeah,

26:30

and do and And then I

26:33

got up enough courage to start

26:35

going on my own and then

26:37

I big thing was camping with

26:40

a Bushman Camping in a pup

26:42

tent out there out there. Oh

26:44

my god. Oh my god like

26:47

we were at the campfire. You

26:49

know you're you set your truck

26:51

up for the Ranger over and

26:54

then your tent and the fire

26:56

in a triangle because you need

26:58

to you know defenses yeah and

27:01

so you'd see the reflection of

27:03

the the eyes of the hyena

27:05

they come up you know up

27:08

to the about 50 feet away

27:10

from the site and they just

27:13

lay down and just watch for

27:15

opportunity and then you hear the

27:17

lions roaring and you can hear

27:20

them from miles and miles away

27:22

they're so loud they rattle your

27:24

chest So once you once that

27:27

fire goes out you better be

27:29

in that tent or the vehicle

27:31

so we were and this is

27:34

it's a serious I have not

27:36

had anything more serious than that

27:38

a charge I bet it sounds

27:41

there's certain rules you know you

27:43

don't allow them to see you

27:45

they can smell you but don't

27:48

leave anything open window wise you

27:50

can't be like on your phone

27:52

with the light shining your face

27:55

at night type deal. You can't

27:57

let them see you. Because if

27:59

they see you and smell you,

28:02

they're coming. Oh. It's just, yeah,

28:04

it's a whole different thing. And

28:07

if you're near any... body of

28:09

water, you get to worry about

28:11

the crocks because they come out

28:14

on land at night. Wow, they'll

28:16

go like a mile away from

28:18

the water at night. Really? Wow.

28:21

Yeah, that's terrifying. I think you

28:23

got to worry about hippos, rhinos,

28:25

elephants, everything, everything okay. Everything. It

28:28

has the potential to do that.

28:30

But you know, it's so funny,

28:32

you'd be camping. Sorry I'm going

28:35

on about this. It was, it

28:37

was, it was, it was, uh,

28:39

it was just magical. It was

28:42

just magical. You know, you felt

28:44

familiar. It oddly felt like I

28:46

somehow at some point I I

28:49

was familiar with that feeling. Yeah,

28:51

and it felt like home and

28:54

a weird, I've never felt that

28:56

was like a past life type

28:58

thing maybe. Maybe. Yeah, I just

29:01

I'd never felt that anywhere like

29:03

that. But yeah, that's. What was

29:05

the what was the night sky

29:08

like there? I mean, I'm guessing

29:10

because of the lack of light

29:12

pollution You must have had like

29:15

some amazing night like sky watching.

29:17

Yeah, very much. You ever see

29:19

anything out there? That's all I'd

29:22

be thinking about I'd be like

29:24

seeing that many stars checking out

29:26

satellites and whatnot. Well, yeah The

29:29

thing about because you're upside down

29:31

on the ball. Oh, weird. So

29:33

the sunrise is in a different

29:36

direction. You see, you know, Orion

29:38

upside down. Right. You know, the

29:41

moon rises, goes the other way.

29:43

It's when you really pay attention,

29:45

you're like, wow, this is, I'm

29:48

on the bottom side of a

29:50

ball. Yeah. And so your perspective

29:52

is completely. That fascinated me. Seeing

29:55

a new sky. Yeah. Yeah. And

29:57

the skies are just so dark.

29:59

Like you can see everything. Wow.

30:02

Yeah. They try to spend as

30:04

much, they spend a lot of

30:06

time outside. Yeah. I probably would

30:09

too. Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful. The

30:11

only thing you do have to

30:13

worry about is the everything killing

30:16

you. 500 pound cat. I mean,

30:18

being food is a problem. Being

30:20

just like a food with technology

30:23

on you, that's all you are.

30:25

Yeah. All right. So getting back

30:27

to this citing, this okay. I'm

30:31

going to encourage everybody to

30:33

just go watch the documentary.

30:35

I'm, you know, given a

30:37

play-by-play, it's just much better

30:39

to just go watch the

30:41

documentary. Go get familiar with

30:43

it. You know, see for

30:45

yourself the truth that is

30:47

spoken by these witnesses. That

30:49

is, for me, I think,

30:51

one of the most compelling

30:53

pieces of evidence. And in

30:55

today's day and age, even

30:57

more compelling than possibly a

30:59

4K video, because that can

31:01

be faked. You know, you

31:03

can you can you can

31:05

just tell I don't you

31:07

don't even need to be

31:09

an expert. But you know,

31:11

we're almost there. But you

31:13

can't fake, you can't fake

31:15

these interactions. And, you know,

31:17

as someone who studied human

31:19

psychology, you know, for magic

31:21

and you can, you can

31:23

just tell, I don't even

31:25

need to be an expert.

31:27

But you can tell when

31:29

you look at someone, especially

31:31

children, that, you know, you

31:33

know, And then I will

31:35

say as well that like

31:37

sure kids will embellish kids

31:40

will you know and lay

31:42

it on thick sometimes too.

31:44

But the core of what

31:46

they're saying happened this happened

31:48

to them. What piece of

31:50

information for you personally were

31:52

you like oh shit this

31:54

is real? Yeah so I

31:56

you know I had just

31:58

John Max material in the

32:00

beginning. which was very moving,

32:02

for sure. A lot of

32:04

things I didn't understand what

32:06

they were referencing because it

32:08

was from a different culture.

32:10

So I kind of like,

32:12

well, I think once I

32:14

found the school was still

32:16

there, and then I got

32:18

on a plane very quickly,

32:20

like I have got to

32:22

go there. And that kind

32:24

of opened up, you know,

32:26

I wasn't convinced either way.

32:28

I mean, I knew these

32:30

people were telling the truth.

32:32

It's pretty obvious that they're,

32:34

you can tell. I mean,

32:36

people know when people are

32:38

truthful. Yeah. It's in the

32:40

eyes and behavior. It's hard

32:42

to fake that. I don't

32:44

know if it's even possible.

32:46

I've never, never seen that

32:48

really. You know, I got

32:50

a good BS detector and

32:52

yeah, that's what I first

32:54

saw. And then I was

32:57

discovering more, well, then I

32:59

first met the teachers that

33:01

were there when I went

33:03

there. the first time and

33:05

yeah I was like well

33:07

what do you think about

33:09

it definitely happened like wow

33:11

that's interesting like there there

33:13

were still three teachers that

33:15

were still there that were

33:17

there at the time and

33:19

I didn't know what to

33:21

expect I was just showing

33:23

up and doing like pre

33:25

investigation like you know and

33:27

there were many steps like

33:29

of The teachers was that

33:31

was the first thing then

33:33

I started talking to the

33:35

first witnesses Found all those

33:37

people and There was a

33:39

progression and I kept hearing

33:41

the same and the eyes

33:43

and the truthfulness of it

33:45

the directness of it that

33:47

It was kind of a

33:49

step process in a way

33:51

the more I found out

33:53

and the more people I

33:55

met that had seen it

33:57

and it wasn't just the

33:59

kids at school, it wasn't

34:01

just... some of the teachers

34:03

it was a lot of

34:05

people from outside that area

34:07

which also wasn't in the

34:09

film really it in the

34:11

some of the archival was

34:13

there but there were others

34:16

just local interactions yeah within

34:18

a rain within a radius

34:20

of that location yeah because

34:22

there was a lot of

34:24

sightings in that area that

34:26

were reported that's right prior

34:28

to that yeah yeah yeah

34:30

and one of them was

34:32

a you know they was

34:34

a in in You know,

34:36

you had to, I had

34:38

to look at what was

34:40

going on in space. Because

34:42

I had to look, I

34:44

had to look at everything.

34:46

Like, okay, this, okay. I

34:48

mean, what was going on

34:50

in space? Like, what satellite

34:52

rocket bodies were coming in?

34:54

We had sent up 130

34:56

rockets that year. So that

34:58

means every three days, you

35:00

know, some, something's fallen through

35:02

and a lot of stuff

35:04

falls in Africa, right? A

35:06

lot of our launches end

35:08

up in the Indian Ocean

35:10

and they have actually a

35:12

whole museum over there of

35:14

rocket bodies and things that

35:16

have fallen out of the

35:18

sky that we have launched

35:20

or other countries have launched

35:22

because they land in the

35:24

desert in Africa. Big pieces.

35:26

And so I looked into

35:28

all that and that was

35:30

fascinating and the space shuttle

35:33

was up that day. So

35:35

this is a huge piece.

35:37

So it was STS 64.

35:39

was up in orbit that

35:41

day, the very same day,

35:43

aerial happened, and they were

35:45

doing the first untethered spacewalk

35:47

of a human being from

35:49

the shuttle. And it literally

35:51

started two or three hours

35:53

after the incident at Ariel.

35:55

Looks like you got an

35:57

object right in front of

35:59

you mark, and you look

36:01

out there. And I see

36:03

what you're talking about. Never

36:05

mind. Never mind. It was

36:07

monumental. It was also one

36:09

of the longest... spacewalks at

36:11

the time also. The Russians

36:13

had been up a few,

36:15

like a week earlier and

36:17

did their long spacewalk and

36:19

then when we went up

36:21

and then we were testing

36:23

this untethered, it was jet

36:25

pack. Yeah. The first time

36:27

we ever tested it in

36:29

space. So you could fly

36:31

around without being tethered to

36:33

the craft. So it's a

36:35

major, it's in the museum

36:37

in Huntsville, Alabama. It's an

36:39

incredible instance. Yeah. I find

36:41

it highly interesting because if

36:43

anything, it was a human,

36:45

a first for a milestone.

36:47

A milestone. They're in a

36:50

museum for that reason. They're

36:52

in Huntsville, both of those

36:54

safer packs. They were called

36:56

safer. So that became a

36:58

study for me. A lot

37:00

of world events, what was

37:02

going on at the time,

37:04

what was on movies, what

37:06

was on TV. You know,

37:08

I had to, nobody knows

37:10

all that. You know, I

37:12

had to really dig deep

37:14

to see. Find the prosaic

37:16

explanation. Yeah. Yeah. I was

37:18

good with that. That was

37:20

where led. I was okay

37:22

with that. One of the

37:24

things that really kind of

37:26

moved me a lot was

37:28

when I started to find

37:30

the grade one, grade two

37:32

people that were young at

37:34

the time. like the the

37:36

ones they didn't interview because

37:38

they the headmaster made a

37:40

decision which I kind of

37:42

think was properly was proper

37:44

at the time because the

37:46

kids the younger kids were

37:48

really you know much more

37:50

upset to two right hmm

37:52

so they decided to keep

37:54

the grade ones and twos

37:56

and younger out of it

37:58

They didn't interview them, they

38:00

didn't have them draw pictures

38:02

or anything. And then I

38:04

started to find those kids.

38:07

and they're telling me what

38:09

they saw in their perspective

38:11

and their memories and that

38:13

was really fascinating because they

38:15

never got a chance to

38:17

to and I had to

38:19

find out were they actually

38:21

there yes okay I got

38:23

their name I know they

38:25

were there got the school

38:27

pictures that's her that's him

38:29

and that was a that

38:31

was that kind of tipped

38:33

it for me I'm not

38:35

that I didn't believe everybody

38:37

else that was the point

38:39

though That was like when

38:41

you got there you were

38:43

like this is this happened

38:45

this is real. Yeah it

38:47

it I just remember that

38:49

those interviews because they never

38:51

got a chance to speak

38:53

about it and they had

38:55

never forgotten it and it

38:57

was the same thing and

38:59

it was also the other

39:01

witnesses too but it was

39:03

just a certain excitement that

39:05

they had talking about it

39:07

that was a little bit

39:09

different Were they just like

39:11

eager to share it or

39:13

were they also reluctant? No,

39:15

they were, you know, there

39:17

was a lot of reluctance.

39:19

Yeah, I had to deal

39:21

with. There were kids that

39:24

were, yeah, they, they had

39:26

a, they would not share.

39:28

And there's no question it

39:30

left a very big impression

39:32

on them and affected their

39:34

lives. And these kids had

39:36

also seen not just a

39:38

craft, but creatures. Yeah. Yeah.

39:40

Yeah. And then, you know,

39:42

I saw a lot of

39:44

people struggling with religion, like,

39:46

what did this mean? Was

39:48

it the devil? Was it,

39:50

you know, I saw a

39:52

lot of that struggle. Yeah,

39:54

so there were quite a

39:56

few reluctant people, I found

39:58

more of the reluctance from

40:00

the males, you know, than

40:02

the females, to me, Frank.

40:04

It's always like that for

40:06

some reason. Menard like were

40:08

guarded were like, you know,

40:10

more sure of... it seems

40:12

like, and for some reason,

40:14

you know, I think naturally

40:16

women are just a little

40:18

bit more open to, you

40:20

know, esoteric sort of explanations

40:22

of things or spirituality in

40:24

that case, or just open

40:26

to other options. Maybe that

40:28

softens the blow, for them

40:30

ontologically speaking, like they don't

40:32

go through the same brick

40:34

wall that we do. I

40:36

agree. I think that is

40:38

a thing where it's males

40:41

just have a very much

40:43

harder not being in control.

40:45

And you know, there's all

40:47

a stigma or whatever you

40:49

that are put on men

40:51

more than women. I mean

40:53

women have their own thing

40:55

too. It's just, yeah, I

40:57

definitely noticed that quite a

40:59

bit of the witnesses. But

41:01

yeah, it was a, there

41:03

was a definitely moments where

41:05

I was just like, oh

41:07

yeah, this, this definitely happened.

41:09

Definitely. There was, you know,

41:11

obviously, just like any major

41:13

citing, there's always a sort

41:15

of government presence that tends

41:17

to impose itself to try

41:19

and control the situation. What

41:21

was like with that? Did

41:23

you, did you, like, I

41:25

mean, I know there was.

41:27

There was that, but how

41:29

much did that deter you

41:31

or inspire you to keep

41:33

going? From the Zimbabwean government?

41:35

Yeah. Well, I was, I

41:37

had to be really careful

41:39

with that. It's a dictatorship.

41:41

And you know, at the

41:43

time it happened, you know,

41:45

they, Tim Leach from the

41:47

BBC, finally found him. In

41:49

Gunter, who's the last surviving

41:51

investigator who's on the scene,

41:53

they all did excellent work

41:55

at the time. They, you

41:58

know, they really did. But

42:00

he had gone to the

42:02

military to see, did you

42:04

guys have this on radar?

42:06

Which they said their radar was

42:08

down. And then people would

42:10

report that, I think they

42:12

were flying F4 phantoms at

42:15

the time, older, yeah, hand-me-downs,

42:17

but people were seeing them

42:20

flying really low altitude like

42:22

they were looking for something

42:25

through that whole area. A lot

42:27

of witnesses to that. But I,

42:29

you know, when I was in

42:31

the country, the first time, that

42:34

was 2008, I wasn't supposed to

42:36

be in the country. That's when

42:39

the New York Times reporter got

42:41

arrested. When I flew out of... Wow.

42:43

Oh yeah, it was political violence.

42:45

People were being killed and

42:48

tortured. That was the, I

42:50

was also, was that not...

42:52

Egypt soon after. Yeah, was

42:55

Iraq as well during that

42:57

time or was that before

42:59

that? I mean, there's a

43:01

lot of yeah, there was,

43:03

but there's global tensions. Yeah,

43:05

yeah, up and around that

43:07

time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

43:09

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So

43:12

I wasn't supposed to be there.

43:14

There's a state department warnings and

43:16

everything. And I stayed on in a

43:19

in a shack. No, no, no, no

43:21

water, no heat. I mean, And

43:23

thanks to Nikki Carter, who was

43:25

wonderful, helped me through, she took

43:27

the risk I took. No doubt

43:29

about it. I wish she could

43:32

come on some of these shows.

43:34

She was originally one of the

43:36

reporters who also never beat these

43:39

kids. So going back to the

43:41

footage, like I only had John

43:43

Max footage in the beginning, and

43:45

then I started to

43:47

find other interviews done by

43:50

Nikki Carter for SABC. You know,

43:52

the Dutch did it. There's another

43:54

guy from Germany went over there

43:56

and recorded 42 of the kids,

43:59

interviewed 42. So I ended up

44:01

with like six or seven different

44:03

archival sources. Like, oh my God,

44:06

that's brilliant. And so that was

44:08

one part of like the

44:10

whole thing was just collecting what

44:13

happened at the time, what did

44:15

people say, what did each individual

44:17

child, what did the teachers say,

44:20

what did the parents say? So

44:22

I had a ton of that.

44:25

And then it was real time,

44:27

20 years later at that time.

44:29

of a lot of those

44:31

same people and a lot of

44:34

new people I had no idea

44:36

about that had also witnessed this.

44:39

Yeah, that, oh man. It's intense.

44:41

It's an intense thing to happen

44:43

to so many people. You know,

44:46

you touched on a little bit

44:48

that this was like an

44:50

international kind of, there was a

44:53

lot of diversity in this school.

44:55

That obviously has to have something

44:57

to do with the reason right?

45:00

Boy, you know, I don't know

45:02

what the reason Yeah, I still

45:05

do not know if you had

45:07

to take a stab in the

45:09

dark Well, I've been engine

45:11

failure or Would it be it

45:14

would be deliberate? wouldn't it? I

45:16

think it was deliberate. Yeah, but

45:19

you know my my biggest thing

45:21

To me is what was going

45:23

on up in space at the

45:26

time, you know I've been told

45:28

and I did find this

45:30

I did confirm this somebody from

45:33

who's out publicly a lot now

45:35

Military man He said you know

45:37

there's a lot of uranium mines

45:40

right around that area and I

45:42

It didn't really I wasn't out

45:45

to search for the reason Hmm,

45:47

but I did check that out

45:49

and that is correct. You

45:51

know he's like they're they're really

45:54

interested in nuclear material and it

45:56

doesn't really matter to me But

45:59

it's interesting that that was told

46:01

to me by that person so

46:03

but I I don't I still

46:06

don't know. I wasn't out to

46:08

say, I have the answers

46:10

to this, right? I don't. And

46:13

a lot of the witnesses don't,

46:15

but they do, you know, they

46:17

saw what they saw and they

46:20

reported it. It was very consistent.

46:22

And, you know, this is just

46:25

one incident out of, guys, only

46:27

knows how many around the world

46:29

have met so many other

46:31

people, you know, that have seen

46:34

this from every single country on

46:36

this planet. Same kind of thing.

46:39

whether there's two of them or

46:41

you know and also I one

46:43

of the things I found really

46:46

interesting with the research was the

46:48

number of schools primary schools

46:50

essentially mostly schools of that age

46:53

range that had had similar incidents

46:55

all over the all over the

46:57

world and I started collecting all

47:00

these newspaper clippings people would send

47:02

them to me. West all Chile,

47:05

my gosh, there's so many. Really?

47:07

Yeah, probably Brazil, I'm guessing as

47:09

well. Brazil, oh my gosh. And

47:12

I keep hearing more about it.

47:14

Somebody did write a precedent, I

47:17

believe, for the book on school

47:19

sightings. We were, yeah, he was

47:21

kind of doing that at the

47:24

same time. So that's an interesting

47:26

aspect is the children and why.

47:29

Yeah, that's a whole nother.

47:31

Yeah, I mean, there's also, you

47:33

know, the idea that if you're

47:35

gonna ask someone a question, right,

47:38

and you want them to be

47:40

truthful, two types of people you

47:43

can count on, there's a child

47:45

or a drunk, right? This is,

47:47

you know, you don't count

47:49

on a politician to tell you

47:52

the truth. Yeah. you know, or

47:54

anyone else with an agenda. Unfortunately.

47:57

Yeah, you got to people who

47:59

have, you know, no sort of

48:01

social inhibition. It would be nice

48:04

to have leaders that actually told

48:06

us the truth. Yeah, it really

48:09

would be nice. Yeah, absolutely,

48:11

but you know, unfortunately, I don't

48:13

think that's just part of our

48:15

system. Yeah, you know, so we

48:18

got to we got to depend

48:20

on people like yourself to report

48:23

on it, you know, for those

48:25

of us seeking it. Have you

48:27

have you felt since you've

48:29

been there and since you've... looked

48:32

into that particular case. Have you

48:34

seen a difference in how the

48:37

world looks at the phenomenon? Oh

48:39

yeah, very much. And has that,

48:41

has that changed how you sort

48:44

of investigate the phenomenon yourself? Now?

48:46

Yeah. final in 2017. We're all

48:49

sitting there and there's a

48:51

TV up on the, you know,

48:53

there's a whole deck of screens

48:55

up top and TV is in

48:58

the center on the news and

49:00

we're all sitting there editing the

49:03

film, me and two editors, Chris

49:05

and Rick, and all of a

49:07

sudden the New York Times

49:10

sing is on the news and

49:12

we're sitting there like, holy shit,

49:14

like it was a moment. We

49:17

took pictures because we're all like...

49:21

This is big. And we're working

49:23

on a movie at the same

49:26

time about this very subject. And

49:28

it was interesting to see that

49:30

transition and how it's continued to

49:32

now. I mean, I go out,

49:35

if I go out to dinner

49:37

or something, and I run into

49:39

friends, we're talking about it. Like

49:42

they would never ever, you know,

49:44

some of the guys that hang

49:46

out are mechanics and hardcore. I

49:49

love them. race car driver, whatever.

49:51

People that do hardcore physical stuff,

49:53

they're not the one, they don't

49:55

tend to believe in anything they

49:58

can't hold in their hand. And

50:00

now we're having conversations like that

50:02

I never thought would happen to

50:05

be honest. Wow. Yeah, so it

50:07

has changed a lot and then

50:09

watching that change through the making

50:12

of the film. Yeah. Because when

50:14

I started nobody was really like.

50:16

No. But you're also I think

50:19

an important part of that change

50:21

itself. Like I mean, you're... You're

50:23

also to thank for that. Like

50:25

there are, you've taken some steps

50:28

in your life and in your

50:30

career to, you know, obviously be

50:32

public about a lot of things.

50:35

And, you know, that on whatever

50:37

capacity moves the needle. Right. It's

50:39

a lot of people have. Yeah.

50:42

But a lot of, you know,

50:44

people have been speaking up about

50:46

this for, since the 1950s. Yeah.

50:49

If you look at the documentaries

50:51

from the 1950s and 60s. is

50:53

the same thing. They've got footage

50:55

of it, you know, like, it's

50:58

the same. It's, when I was,

51:00

Dan Ackroy had helped me, like

51:02

he did a trailer for me

51:05

and spoke about it. It's there

51:07

and I know viewers that are

51:09

watching this. They will see it

51:12

and they will feel kind of

51:14

vindicated and they'll go, you know.

51:16

Boy, those kids are telling the

51:19

truth. And I was telling the

51:21

truth when I had my experience.

51:23

And it will, it's going to

51:25

provide a lot of reinforcement. He

51:28

kept saying, he's like, there's nothing

51:30

new here. We're just rehashing what

51:32

we already know. And he's right.

51:35

I didn't realize what he was

51:37

saying at the time until I

51:39

started going, oh, my God. It's

51:42

the same story, the same things

51:44

that people have reported. We are

51:46

in a different day, I think.

51:48

We're getting a little more truth.

51:51

I get a kick out of

51:53

it like, well, we're trying to

51:55

remove the stigma, right? Congress and

51:58

the DOD and Air Force. But

52:00

at the same time, we're going

52:02

to give you a little truth

52:05

and then throw you off a

52:07

little here. But it's just like,

52:09

yeah, let's... Let's get to it.

52:12

You had, you know, back in

52:14

56, whatever it was, was it

52:16

major Samson, Samson's, what's his name?

52:18

He came forward like and he

52:21

was like yeah, this is not

52:23

our technology and he was saying

52:25

a lot of the same things

52:28

we're saying today about you know

52:30

the drone incursions where it's like

52:32

it's not ours. It's not theirs

52:35

Was that leave you with you

52:37

know, and that's kind of like

52:39

you said we're we're repeating that,

52:42

but I think more people are

52:44

and maybe it isn't even such

52:46

that more people are believing it,

52:48

but more people are publicly believing

52:51

it. Because I think down to

52:53

your core, as you know, we're

52:55

all human, and we all kind

52:58

of have the same outlook in

53:00

that we don't want to believe

53:02

that we're alone. You know, there

53:05

is that desire to not be

53:07

alone in this place. And so

53:09

I think deep down, you know,

53:12

we all kind of want it

53:14

to some extent to be real.

53:17

But back then you just wouldn't

53:19

vocalize that. Yeah, you know, and

53:21

so there was there was a

53:24

lot it was a lot easier

53:26

to suppress something I think in

53:28

an era where people didn't find

53:30

it socially acceptable to share these

53:32

ideas and thoughts. True. Whereas now

53:34

it's a lot harder to keep

53:37

that in the in the pot,

53:39

you know, it's it's overflowing, it's

53:41

brimming, we're we're trying to get

53:43

it out there now and people

53:45

are more willing to come forward,

53:48

more celebrities, more celebrities like Dan

53:50

Acroid. You know, it's important to

53:52

have these voices. Absolutely. I found

53:54

it interesting this whole the drone

53:56

thing because, you know, all of

53:58

a sudden everybody's, you know, is

54:01

watching the skies and videotaping and,

54:03

you know, a lot. of its

54:05

airplanes, a lot of it is

54:07

drone, right? But there's a, there's

54:09

a few. I'm like, well, that

54:11

is definitely interesting there. You know,

54:14

so I don't think we've had

54:16

that many cameras pointed in sky

54:18

all over the world. That's pretty

54:20

unique. And, you know, I'm not

54:22

saying anything just sort of like

54:25

observing, like, this is interesting. I

54:27

mean, it could be a way

54:29

to throw everybody off. Like, oh,

54:31

it's just drones. People are seeing,

54:33

right? But this has been going

54:35

on for. I mean, incursions like

54:38

this have been going on since

54:40

the 50s. Yeah. I mean, the

54:42

military base thing and these sites,

54:44

that's a big deal. Lake and

54:46

heath back in the 50s, 80s,

54:48

you know, well, Brentwater, milestone. Yeah.

54:51

And even, I mean, sightings in

54:53

Jersey, actually. World the world's yeah,

54:55

I was in New Jersey like

54:57

testbed. Yep, like that was the

54:59

first thing it hit me was

55:02

like well That's interesting New Jersey

55:04

gets it again. Yeah How are

55:06

people gonna react? Yeah? This is

55:08

just a modern Orson Wells thing

55:10

going on right now maybe but

55:12

the the sightings that I'm finding

55:15

really interesting are out in Arizona

55:17

Mm-hmm Oregon. Have you heard the

55:19

ATC Air Traffic Control? Yep. It's

55:21

like six, seven pilots. Yeah, yeah.

55:23

The radio, the communication between the

55:25

pilots. This thing going coast to

55:28

coast in seconds and going out

55:30

to the ocean. Yeah. We're seeing

55:32

three or four targets. Yeah, they're

55:34

all altitudes up and down. It's

55:36

pretty crazy. Just had another one

55:39

show up about my... one o'clock,

55:41

about a thousand feet high, zipping

55:43

towards us, and then back out

55:45

towards the ocean, and red in

55:47

color, moving at extreme speeds. I

55:49

don't even know how to... I've

55:52

interviewed witnesses, and you're a really

55:54

crazy stuff. And you're a pilot

55:56

yourself. Yeah. And so I've interviewed

55:58

witnesses who've seen that exact same

56:00

behavior, and I've interviewed witnesses who've

56:02

seen that exact same behavior. Yeah,

56:05

wow. This is covering massive distances

56:07

and doing really crazy stuff. And

56:09

you're a pilot yourself. Yeah. And

56:11

so I don't know if anybody

56:13

knows that, but like that's... That's

56:16

interesting because as a pilot I

56:18

feel like you're just a little

56:20

bit more credible on these sightings,

56:22

you know, just from that standpoint.

56:24

Well you have to be, you

56:26

know, you see a lot up

56:29

there. Yeah. And you learn, that's

56:31

another thing I get a kick

56:33

out of too, like people, I've

56:35

never really studied the sky and

56:37

they're out there with cameras. Star

56:40

Link. Oh, I had a guy

56:42

come in a couple weeks ago.

56:44

He's like, dude, look at this,

56:46

you know. There's a lot to

56:48

see out there and a lot

56:50

to understand. And then when you

56:53

see an actual anomaly, it's pretty

56:55

clear. You know, and then you

56:57

still have to go through the

56:59

process of examining and thinking about

57:01

it. You do. And you just

57:03

have to. But yeah, it's an

57:06

air safety issue, you know, to

57:08

be able to know what you're

57:10

looking at, knowing where a plane

57:12

is going. The reason they have

57:14

a red and a green light

57:17

on each side is crossing this

57:19

way. At night, you know, if

57:21

you're seeing that red light, it's

57:23

going that way. Right. Yeah, because

57:25

you're up there, you're not really

57:27

sure what's moving, if you're moving,

57:30

if it's moving. That's right. Yeah,

57:32

I mean, that's, and that's super

57:34

interesting because, you know, that makes

57:36

like that, you mentioned, even the,

57:38

the, the, the organ pilot. you

57:40

know mentioned like when you hear

57:43

something like that as a pilot

57:45

they don't take that more serious

57:47

oh my god yeah because you

57:49

know everything they're saying it's vetted

57:51

it's like well and they know

57:54

that pilots do not talk like

57:56

that yeah unless they're seeing something

57:58

I mean they and the interesting

58:00

about the we're talking about the

58:02

13 minute yeah yeah so the

58:04

controllers right a senior more senior

58:07

controller comes in and then there's

58:09

a bunch of controllers to take

58:11

a picture you want to can

58:13

you can you send a video

58:15

yeah but that's exactly what would

58:17

happen it's so interesting to like

58:20

the community I'm around of pilots

58:22

like they're very They're pretty cool

58:24

people. Um, hmm. Pilot's see quite

58:26

a bit, but they just do

58:28

not talk about. They don't talk

58:31

about it. It's touchy being a

58:33

pilot. You know, we spoke about

58:35

this a little bit yesterday when,

58:37

you know, if a, as someone

58:39

who has like, what is it

58:41

a class two or three, you

58:44

know, you got to watch what

58:46

you say. because you could lose

58:48

your license because you're essentially you're

58:50

a threat to you know many

58:52

lives being being a pilot a

58:54

commercial pilot and commercial yeah and

58:57

so if you say like oh

58:59

you know I have a history

59:01

of dealing with depression like there

59:03

goes your license you know so

59:05

you got to you got to

59:08

keep your mouth shut about things

59:10

like that and you got to

59:12

suppress it and that's really tough

59:14

and and puts them in a

59:16

really bizarre situation when their people

59:18

were trying to count on for

59:21

you know, specific information. We just,

59:23

they just can't talk about it.

59:25

Yeah, that's very true. You know,

59:27

it's for class three. It's like,

59:29

yeah, I mean, that's generate, general

59:31

aviation. But the commercial pilots, yeah,

59:34

they have talked to many of

59:36

them interviewed, you know, even one

59:38

of the pilots that saw what

59:40

he saw the night before arrow

59:42

at night, lying back. And this

59:45

thing was, I mean, we were

59:47

here, and we saw the thing

59:49

coming from here. and it must

59:51

have gone down here towards the

59:53

free state, the free state, the

59:55

sub two and onto the east

59:58

coast there. friend of mine who's

1:00:00

going to formulate on us in

1:00:02

another aircraft. He called us on

1:00:04

the radio and said that he

1:00:06

could actually see us and he

1:00:09

was coming up and he was

1:00:11

keeping look out for him and

1:00:13

I actually said to him well

1:00:15

I can see you on the

1:00:17

left-hand side of the aircraft and

1:00:19

he confirmed that he was on

1:00:22

the right-hand side of us and

1:00:24

I said to him well if

1:00:26

you're on our right-hand side what

1:00:28

is it we seeing on the

1:00:30

left and on our left-hand side

1:00:32

was a ball of light. I

1:00:35

don't know what it was. And

1:00:37

we noticed this thing go from

1:00:39

the left hand wind tip across

1:00:41

our track and disappear across the

1:00:43

horizon. And it took about three

1:00:46

or four seconds. I posted that

1:00:48

interview on our website. You know,

1:00:50

he showed up without any of

1:00:52

his ID or who he was

1:00:54

flying for because of many of

1:00:56

that reasons, but he shared it

1:00:59

because it wasn't just him. It

1:01:01

was his co-pilot and another pilot.

1:01:03

they're you know oddly in Africa

1:01:05

they'll fly in formation because there's

1:01:07

just different rules over there right

1:01:09

you'll have two commercial jets flying

1:01:12

side by side yes it's an

1:01:14

odd thing to see if you're

1:01:16

looking up well it's yeah it's

1:01:18

just the rules are a little

1:01:20

different yeah there's there's places where

1:01:23

there is no radar coverage at

1:01:25

all well yeah there's huge vast

1:01:27

areas there's no radar covers so

1:01:29

you can kind of do what

1:01:31

you want but anyway um it

1:01:33

is an issue Because it's discussed.

1:01:36

It's discussed among them. Like being

1:01:38

a pilot yourself, you've heard stories.

1:01:40

Oh yeah, but usually it's followed

1:01:42

up with, yeah, don't tell anybody.

1:01:44

Could you share one of the

1:01:46

stories without giving away who said

1:01:49

it or would that give it

1:01:51

away? Boy, I'd have to think

1:01:53

about the... has been a lot.

1:01:55

I don't want to put you

1:01:57

on spot. If there's anything that

1:02:00

comes to mind though, but... Yeah,

1:02:02

let me think about it. Sure.

1:02:04

Like the interesting thing is because

1:02:06

they know I fly like like

1:02:08

like We can speak the same

1:02:10

language. We have the same kind

1:02:13

of understanding. They may have a

1:02:15

lot more hours than I do.

1:02:17

I love these guys that have

1:02:19

35,000 hours. I've got 1,600. Well,

1:02:21

yeah. It's a big difference. You

1:02:23

know. But yeah, that's a whole

1:02:26

other topic. But it's important because

1:02:28

they don't have a voice, you

1:02:30

know. And I'm hoping like that

1:02:32

particular incident that was recorded. on

1:02:34

ATC. I hope those people get

1:02:37

interviewed. Yeah. Or they're not, I

1:02:39

hope they're not reprimanded either. They

1:02:41

shouldn't be, you know. Well, they

1:02:43

shouldn't be. And because they have

1:02:45

so many, you know, it's not,

1:02:47

that's the amazing thing about it

1:02:50

is, I think there's five or

1:02:52

six, maybe even more than that.

1:02:54

They're all calling in. I know,

1:02:56

it's exciting. Yeah, I see it

1:02:58

too. Yeah. A friend of mine

1:03:01

sent me that, and I'm like,

1:03:03

yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. I've interviewed

1:03:05

a Navy man who witnessed the

1:03:07

same thing when he was active

1:03:09

duty. Him and another engineer on

1:03:11

the P3. Oh wow. So the

1:03:14

same behavior like it would just

1:03:16

go it would come up and

1:03:18

then it would just zoom out

1:03:20

like a ridiculous speed. Impossible speeds.

1:03:22

And then repeat the behavior. What

1:03:24

are they doing? Yeah, you know,

1:03:27

what are these things? It must

1:03:29

be so wildly different also to

1:03:31

see it from that perspective because

1:03:33

being on the ground looking up

1:03:35

is one thing and sure you

1:03:38

can spot anomalous behavior, but there's

1:03:40

so much going on above your

1:03:42

head, right? Like you said, there's

1:03:44

rockets coming back into orbit, there's,

1:03:46

you know, Elon's got 46 hundred

1:03:48

satellites up there, like there's asteroids,

1:03:51

there's things burning up. You know,

1:03:53

you're catching reflections off certain crafts

1:03:55

that are, you know, just orbiting

1:03:57

the planet that are reflecting off

1:03:59

the sun so you're getting glimmers

1:04:01

and but being at that altitude

1:04:04

and seeing something straight on I

1:04:06

think is such a different and

1:04:08

interesting perspective to this because now

1:04:10

it's now you can confirm that

1:04:12

it's not in space because being

1:04:15

on the ground you have no

1:04:17

point of reference it's either a

1:04:19

big object that's you know far

1:04:21

away or a small object that's

1:04:23

close like I don't know but

1:04:25

being level playing field with this

1:04:28

thing watching it go, I mean

1:04:30

that must be just a, just

1:04:32

a much more, yeah. So like,

1:04:34

even with Ariel, like, you know,

1:04:36

the radar coverage in, well, actually

1:04:38

they did catch it on radar

1:04:41

on the corner of their scope,

1:04:43

but they had it on their

1:04:45

own, they have like a radar

1:04:47

in the plane, limited teacasts for

1:04:49

collision avoidance for commercial. They picked

1:04:52

it up on the T-cast. So

1:04:54

so did those people in that

1:04:56

clip we're talking about? Mm-hmm. Out

1:04:58

an organ, I think. Yeah. So

1:05:00

they had it on their T-cast,

1:05:02

but the radar station didn't have

1:05:05

it on. So it's telling you

1:05:07

this object is in very close

1:05:09

proximity. You know, but at the

1:05:11

same time, radar doesn't have it

1:05:13

as a primary target. That's interesting,

1:05:15

because the same thing happened the

1:05:18

night before Ariel. A lot of

1:05:20

the pilot stock, like I got

1:05:22

it on my T-cass, like collision

1:05:24

avoidance, yet you guys don't have

1:05:26

it on radar. South Africa, on

1:05:29

the one pilot I did interview,

1:05:31

they did have it on radar.

1:05:33

He went to the tower right

1:05:35

when he landed. It's like, you

1:05:37

guys get this on radar. It's

1:05:39

like, we had it on for

1:05:42

like two seconds. That's what he

1:05:44

saw. I mean, within two seconds.

1:05:46

Four, I think he's, yeah, four

1:05:48

seconds, and completely, he's at 25,000

1:05:50

feet. So your horizon is massive.

1:05:52

You know, you can see a

1:05:55

lot of, you know, and within

1:05:57

four seconds and completely cross the

1:05:59

horizon and at, in a kind

1:06:01

of a straight line, not like

1:06:03

some, a meteorite or anything like

1:06:06

that. He thought it was another

1:06:08

aircraft coming up next to him

1:06:10

and that, anyway, those are interesting

1:06:12

interviews because the pilots are that's

1:06:14

there. They have to. Incredible. Yeah,

1:06:16

you got to pay attention. You

1:06:19

have to know what you're doing.

1:06:21

Your life's at risk. Other people's

1:06:23

lives are at risk if you

1:06:25

have passengers. Yeah, there seems to

1:06:27

be a concerted effort to, within

1:06:30

the last few years anyways, at

1:06:32

least to sort of bridge that

1:06:34

gap of the FAA and allow

1:06:36

for commercial pilots to report these

1:06:38

things and create this. you know,

1:06:40

funnel where they can now, you

1:06:43

know, I know that Ryan Graves

1:06:45

is working with that as well.

1:06:47

And I think it's very important

1:06:49

and it's cool that he is

1:06:51

working with it because he's someone

1:06:53

I believe that like we can

1:06:56

sort of trust on this issue.

1:06:58

You know, he seems like a

1:07:00

straight shooter, understands, you know, some

1:07:02

of the capabilities of these crafts

1:07:04

and, you know, has heard a

1:07:07

lot of testimony as well. A

1:07:09

lot of people come to him.

1:07:11

So, you know, I think it's

1:07:13

important, but, you know, you know,

1:07:15

you know, if you know, if

1:07:17

you know, if you know, if

1:07:20

you look at... things like even

1:07:22

the the O'Hare incident. Was it

1:07:24

oh six or seven or whatever

1:07:26

it was? And you know everything

1:07:28

was confiscated it was like they

1:07:30

just right away shut that thing

1:07:33

down and it was like it

1:07:35

was a hiccup you know but

1:07:37

that was a mass sighting as

1:07:39

well but that got controlled real

1:07:41

quick because it happened around an

1:07:44

airport like you know yeah so

1:07:46

that's the that's the other thing

1:07:48

is like there is like there

1:07:50

is a fear. I'm pretty sure,

1:07:52

you know, among pilots and among

1:07:54

air staff in general, not just

1:07:57

pilots, but like, you know, radar

1:07:59

operators and even ground, you know.

1:08:01

crew and that yeah you shouldn't

1:08:03

you shouldn't speak of this

1:08:05

you shouldn't talk of this

1:08:08

and true a lot of

1:08:10

people are fighting for those

1:08:12

jobs and right yeah it's

1:08:15

unfortunate because we lose

1:08:17

a lot of information

1:08:19

that's what it drives

1:08:21

me it's like we yeah every

1:08:23

little bit of Data

1:08:25

is important information

1:08:28

testimony, you know,

1:08:31

or witness what

1:08:33

you witness paints a

1:08:36

picture And so many

1:08:38

people just don't come

1:08:41

forward. Yeah, that's the

1:08:43

other thing A pilot

1:08:45

F-11 Air Force they

1:08:48

witnessed a vehicle

1:08:50

up at 25, again

1:08:52

25,000, it's interesting because

1:08:54

they are seen at

1:08:56

an interesting altitude between

1:08:58

20 and 30,000 feet.

1:09:00

A lot of them, you know, we

1:09:02

stay up at 35, 40,000, you

1:09:04

know, for most of our commercial

1:09:07

flights are up there, but

1:09:09

the lot of the activities

1:09:11

around 25, which is fascinating

1:09:13

to me. Because you wouldn't

1:09:15

see it if you're in a

1:09:17

plane, maybe? It's just not,

1:09:20

I don't think that's the,

1:09:22

it's just interesting, there

1:09:24

is an altitude that,

1:09:27

that is, people see that,

1:09:29

anyway, it was an F111,

1:09:31

and they had it on their,

1:09:34

their on-board radar, and

1:09:36

they saw the target coming

1:09:38

toward them. This is

1:09:40

an interview, I did, and

1:09:43

it was on a, head-on

1:09:45

collision, that was the worry. because it

1:09:47

was heading right toward them and they

1:09:49

were in the clouds so they couldn't

1:09:52

see it. And then all of a

1:09:54

sudden the clouds break open and then

1:09:56

it comes out of the clouds and it's

1:09:58

huge. What's it? Oh my God.

1:10:01

Like a black cigar shaped.

1:10:03

And he's estimating, you know,

1:10:05

700 to 900 feet long.

1:10:07

Oh my God. Yeah. It's

1:10:09

a big deal. And these

1:10:11

impenages, that's what he would

1:10:14

call them. Like big circle,

1:10:16

or circular, like hangars. You

1:10:18

could look into it. And

1:10:20

you could see the shadow.

1:10:22

He explains this. Boy, I

1:10:24

don't know if I should

1:10:27

be talking about it. Talking

1:10:29

about this yet, but um,

1:10:31

yeah. So, I mean, they

1:10:33

were both afraid to even

1:10:35

report it. Yeah, when they

1:10:37

landed. And they did, they

1:10:40

did, they kept quiet about

1:10:42

it. Yeah, but he's been

1:10:44

thinking about it ever since

1:10:46

1981. Of course. Why wouldn't

1:10:48

you? That's haunting. Yep. I

1:10:50

mean, you're so vulnerable to

1:10:53

being up there. You know,

1:10:55

he wasn't alone. He was

1:10:57

navigator. Sorry. They were like,

1:10:59

like, did you see that?

1:11:01

You know, they both saw

1:11:03

it. Wow. Yep. So there's

1:11:06

a lot of interesting things

1:11:08

that get seen. I just

1:11:10

don't get, again, like that

1:11:12

would have been helpful to,

1:11:14

you know, why? You know,

1:11:16

do we already know all

1:11:19

this? You know, you not

1:11:21

need that information or is

1:11:23

it the concern for public

1:11:25

panic? That they... Do

1:11:27

you think it's a concern for

1:11:29

public panic? I do. That's the

1:11:32

main reason? I think that's what

1:11:34

I've heard over and over. Yeah.

1:11:36

It seems to be, I mean

1:11:38

that seems to definitely be a

1:11:40

reason. Like I mean, you know,

1:11:42

there's so many examples if you

1:11:44

look back in history where ontological

1:11:46

shock has literally crippled people and

1:11:49

you know, they've... probably played the

1:11:51

scenario out a billion times in

1:11:53

a billion different ways, whoever the

1:11:55

people are in the program, to

1:11:57

make sure. that hey we don't

1:11:59

want to destroy the economy or

1:12:01

start a war or whatever it

1:12:04

is but you know part of

1:12:06

me also thinks that like man

1:12:08

humans humans are just greedy sometimes

1:12:10

too and like I really I

1:12:12

don't know this is just a

1:12:14

gut feeling but I really feel

1:12:16

like they're just like a small

1:12:19

group of people I just don't

1:12:21

want you to know yeah and

1:12:23

they're just like nope that's ours

1:12:25

you can't have it And they

1:12:27

got money, they got power, they

1:12:29

got, you know, and that just

1:12:31

gets them off. And I, because,

1:12:34

you know, a lot of us

1:12:36

could handle it. Not the entirety

1:12:38

of it, perhaps, but I think,

1:12:40

you know, if you go around

1:12:42

asking people, there are ways to

1:12:44

disseminate information that are probably a

1:12:46

lot more, that's a lot easier

1:12:49

than what they're doing now. You

1:12:51

know this whole like leak and

1:12:53

deny and like it's just so

1:12:55

bizarre of the behavior And then

1:12:57

like even with like the drone

1:12:59

stuff happening. They're like we don't

1:13:01

know what it is. This seems

1:13:04

like a really sloppy job You

1:13:06

know if you were to give

1:13:08

out some information I just think

1:13:10

there's there's like an easy way

1:13:12

to do it and For some

1:13:14

reason whatever that reason is they

1:13:16

just don't want people to know

1:13:18

well It's you know,

1:13:21

it's already been disclosed essentially

1:13:23

People don't even realize that's

1:13:25

already happened But you know,

1:13:27

they don't have to I

1:13:29

feel the same way like

1:13:31

you know Do whatever you

1:13:33

guys want keep doing what

1:13:35

you're doing. You don't have

1:13:37

to share everything. Mm-hmm. Just

1:13:39

tell us yeah that there's

1:13:41

the intelligent life in the

1:13:43

universe. Please and I think

1:13:45

the end result of that

1:13:47

it's going to be shocking

1:13:49

for a transitional period that

1:13:51

I think everybody goes through

1:13:53

when they actually see it

1:13:55

or come to terms with

1:13:57

it. And then there's going

1:13:59

to be a lot of

1:14:01

excitement about like you were

1:14:03

saying like, oh man. Wait,

1:14:06

we're not alone out here?

1:14:08

That opens up space to

1:14:10

a lot of excitement and

1:14:12

exploration, and I think that's

1:14:14

gonna move us forward in

1:14:16

a way. We've never seen

1:14:18

before. So I think it's,

1:14:20

yeah, there's things I probably

1:14:22

agree that they shouldn't share

1:14:24

with us, but. Not positive

1:14:26

overall? If humanity finds out.

1:14:28

Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

1:14:30

It's going to be some

1:14:32

hard pills to swallow, so

1:14:34

to speak. But yeah, I

1:14:36

think we're already there. We're

1:14:38

already, I mean, it's no

1:14:40

accident that we're in space.

1:14:42

You know, we're just getting

1:14:44

off this planet, we're starting

1:14:46

to explore, and of course

1:14:48

we're running into these things

1:14:50

more often, and these things

1:14:52

are paying attention, you bet.

1:14:55

It's a critical stage of

1:14:57

our evolution. Right. We hit

1:14:59

a certain technological peak. and

1:15:01

now they're popping up, whether

1:15:03

it's like nuke or space

1:15:05

travel, feels like they're like,

1:15:07

oh, they're finally getting out

1:15:09

of the playpen. Yeah. Yeah.

1:15:11

I believe that. Do you

1:15:13

believe they've been here for

1:15:15

a long time? I do.

1:15:17

Like thousands of years? Yeah.

1:15:19

Yeah. Is there any part

1:15:21

of you that believes that

1:15:23

they are responsible for us?

1:15:26

Boy, there's so many pieces

1:15:28

to that. It wouldn't surprise

1:15:31

me. I just don't know.

1:15:33

So I kind of have

1:15:35

my own little, like speculative,

1:15:37

like, okay, let's, how is

1:15:39

this, there's some pretty spectacular

1:15:42

things that have happened in

1:15:44

our past that are still

1:15:46

there, you know, as pyramids

1:15:48

or, you know, just really

1:15:51

curious technologies. So I don't

1:15:53

know. I mean, that's kind

1:15:55

of the, I'd like to

1:15:57

know that. I think, I

1:16:00

think if, you know, if

1:16:02

there's a lot of things

1:16:04

that I think if we

1:16:06

find out, we'll be like,

1:16:09

oh, that makes total sense.

1:16:11

Yeah. The puzzle piece is

1:16:13

fit. Yeah. You overcomplicate things

1:16:15

sometimes in your head and

1:16:17

you're like, well, he must

1:16:20

have had this electromagnetic thing

1:16:22

up his sleeve. And then

1:16:24

I'm like, no, it's just

1:16:26

like an invisible thread or

1:16:29

something. And then they're like,

1:16:31

oh, yeah, of course, you

1:16:33

know, but we over complicate

1:16:35

things sometimes because, you know,

1:16:38

we just overthink, but it

1:16:40

might be a lot simpler.

1:16:42

I think it is. And

1:16:44

people make it more complex,

1:16:46

well, for various reasons. Yeah.

1:16:49

advantage over others or profit

1:16:51

or whatever, you know, a

1:16:53

whole bunch of things human

1:16:55

beings do. But I find

1:16:58

it interesting the whole timing

1:17:00

of all this where we're

1:17:02

all these things that we

1:17:04

have to deal with are

1:17:07

all coming to a head,

1:17:09

you know, we're out, we're

1:17:11

getting off the planet, we're,

1:17:13

we've got a climate issue

1:17:16

big time, and then I

1:17:18

don't know, it's just so,

1:17:20

we're at the edge of

1:17:22

a lot of things, so.

1:17:24

If you could. Place yourself

1:17:27

behind the wall, behind a

1:17:29

rock somewhere, at any point

1:17:31

in history, and have like

1:17:33

the best view of anything

1:17:36

being done, whether it's a

1:17:38

visitation or some monumental event,

1:17:40

besides Rua, where would you

1:17:42

put yourself? Fly on the

1:17:45

wall, no one will ever

1:17:47

see you. And

1:17:49

you get to have the best

1:17:52

view. You get to soak it

1:17:54

all in, whatever that thing is.

1:18:00

I mean there's several. I

1:18:02

mean immediately think of around

1:18:04

the building of the Great

1:18:06

Pyramid. I would have loved

1:18:08

to have seen who was

1:18:10

involved or her. How that

1:18:12

was done? Well, I'd like

1:18:15

to see who was there

1:18:17

besides the human beings. If

1:18:19

that if that I don't

1:18:21

have it now, I would

1:18:23

just boy, that's that's a

1:18:25

have you been to the

1:18:27

pyramids? Never been no. Oh

1:18:29

my god. No You have

1:18:31

to see that. I would

1:18:33

love to one day. It

1:18:35

is very it's just You

1:18:37

leave there a different person.

1:18:39

Hmm. Because that closest I've

1:18:41

been is a coral castle

1:18:43

in Florida. So I haven't

1:18:45

seen that I'd like to

1:18:47

see that. Yeah, it's okay.

1:18:49

But it is One of

1:18:51

the wonders for sure, wonders

1:18:53

of the world. Yeah, they're

1:18:55

colossal. They're really just, pictures

1:18:57

don't do it justice. They

1:18:59

don't. Like the, you know,

1:19:01

the Statue of Liberty is

1:19:03

like, geez. It's a lot

1:19:05

bigger than, you know, when

1:19:07

you see it, you're like,

1:19:09

eh. But boy, you see

1:19:11

the pyramids. You're like, oh

1:19:13

my God. These things are,

1:19:15

wow. Yeah, there's so much

1:19:17

like megalithic. Yeah, I've seen

1:19:20

pictures of people in comparison

1:19:22

next to them and they

1:19:24

just stand next to a

1:19:26

rock and they're not even

1:19:28

half the size of the

1:19:30

rock. Yeah. And you're just

1:19:32

like, wait, I don't know

1:19:34

what? Like it's really hard

1:19:36

to comprehend on photo, but

1:19:38

in person must be just,

1:19:40

yeah, it just shows you,

1:19:42

it cement that idea of

1:19:44

how can we do this?

1:19:46

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty stunning.

1:19:48

I'd like to I'd like

1:19:50

to see where would you

1:19:52

like to be holloman? Oh,

1:19:54

yeah in 1954. Yep I'd

1:19:56

like to be behind a

1:19:58

little rock somewhere in a

1:20:00

safe area And just kind

1:20:02

of, or maybe in that

1:20:04

helicopter or whatever, just be,

1:20:06

yeah, boots on the ground

1:20:08

somewhere there and watch that,

1:20:10

watch that happen. Yeah, I

1:20:12

would love to know. What

1:20:14

was that? Yeah, going to

1:20:16

the, going to the, going

1:20:18

to the, what did they

1:20:20

tell us? Yeah. Well, there's

1:20:22

my question. Well, like, what,

1:20:25

I mean, I'm sure if

1:20:27

there was a conversation, they

1:20:29

said some very. Frank things.

1:20:31

I would like to know

1:20:33

what they said. If you

1:20:35

could ask one question, what

1:20:37

would it be? That's something

1:20:39

you want to keep for

1:20:41

yourself? Yeah. Yeah, that's fine.

1:20:43

I do have a personal

1:20:45

law. And I think I

1:20:47

know the question is. Yeah.

1:20:49

All right. We'll do, how

1:20:51

about we take some questions

1:20:53

from Patreon? Is that cool?

1:20:55

All right, I'm gonna, I'm

1:20:57

just a hit record on

1:20:59

the other camera here, one

1:21:01

second. All right, I'm gonna

1:21:03

pull these questions up. This

1:21:05

is from our interns, as

1:21:07

we call them. They are

1:21:09

allowed because they pay a

1:21:11

fee every month, they get

1:21:13

access to a lot of

1:21:15

perks, and one of those

1:21:17

perks is asking the guest

1:21:19

a question. So I've only

1:21:21

got a few here, because

1:21:23

it's like a last-minute thing.

1:21:25

I think we might have

1:21:28

answered some of these, honestly.

1:21:30

Oh, okay. This is actually

1:21:32

a good question, and this

1:21:34

isn't a question that is

1:21:36

normally typical. So I do

1:21:38

like this one from jadenity,

1:21:40

jadenity. Yeah, jadentity, maybe. I

1:21:42

don't know. What do you

1:21:44

think are the strongest counter

1:21:46

arguments skeptics present? Now, specifically,

1:21:48

the aerial. thing, what's like

1:21:50

a strong counter argument that

1:21:52

a skeptic would present, something

1:21:54

you've heard, and then maybe...

1:21:56

elaborate on how you know

1:21:58

you could counter-argue that. Mass

1:22:00

hallucination was one. So I

1:22:02

went and spoke to a

1:22:04

lot of psychiatrists and well

1:22:06

you know it was really

1:22:08

interesting like well we don't

1:22:10

really know what that is

1:22:12

right like we don't have

1:22:14

like examples of it's not

1:22:16

it anyway I was okay

1:22:18

because I wanted to see

1:22:20

how what are the other

1:22:22

examples of this? So that

1:22:24

was one. That's one that

1:22:26

you can't just easily dismiss

1:22:28

either because it's just so

1:22:30

last resort. Well blanket statement

1:22:33

everybody's on drugs or something

1:22:35

like yeah I could yeah

1:22:37

it is a problem with

1:22:39

that or are the other

1:22:41

witnesses like the pilots that

1:22:43

were up there yeah so

1:22:45

they're saying having the same

1:22:47

mass hallucination and then the

1:22:49

people in the village are

1:22:51

also having that I mean

1:22:53

That just didn't appear that

1:22:55

way at all and then

1:22:57

I guess Military aircraft. Oh,

1:22:59

yeah, like is maybe the

1:23:01

other one. It was the

1:23:03

other one satellite rocket body

1:23:05

reentry, which I looked into

1:23:07

quite a bit and The

1:23:09

problem with that was that

1:23:11

you had a lot of

1:23:13

people and there's no question

1:23:15

that probably did happen, but

1:23:17

there was something else seen

1:23:19

there that you know Throughout

1:23:21

that whole week Yeah, not

1:23:23

just at the school Right,

1:23:25

right, all over. Because clearly

1:23:27

whatever happened to school wasn't

1:23:29

a crash. No, that was

1:23:31

not a rocket reentry. No,

1:23:33

and it was interesting because

1:23:35

I did find people that

1:23:38

saw a reentry and I'm

1:23:40

like, yeah, that's, that's, and

1:23:42

then I found other people

1:23:44

and the thing was, these

1:23:46

were not unqualified witnesses, so

1:23:48

to speak. They were people

1:23:50

that worked at the airport,

1:23:52

people that, you know. veterinary,

1:23:54

just different people with very, they're

1:23:56

not stupid, you know. And then

1:23:59

they witnessed hovering, you know, they

1:24:01

do, they witnessed a lot of

1:24:03

things that are not, what a

1:24:05

reentry looks like, or space debris

1:24:07

coming in. So yeah, I mean,

1:24:09

that was the other thing I

1:24:11

had to entertain. Like, well, what

1:24:13

else could this have been? You

1:24:16

know, and I still keep kind

1:24:18

of an open. Yeah. Well, what

1:24:20

are you left with? Like, that's,

1:24:22

that's the crazy part. It's like,

1:24:24

what do you, what do you,

1:24:26

what do you left with if

1:24:28

you? You know if you take

1:24:30

away those things you're like, what

1:24:33

are you left with? You're not

1:24:35

left with much if you're jumping

1:24:37

to mass hallucination Doesn't doesn't leave

1:24:39

you with many options. I feel

1:24:41

like that's kind of bottom of

1:24:43

the barrel stuff there. Yeah, you

1:24:45

know, yeah, I mean, you know

1:24:47

the whole thing about the simplest

1:24:49

exumelination is usually the great Hawkins

1:24:52

razor. Yeah, that I do believe

1:24:54

that is true, but maybe not

1:24:56

with this stuff. you know, maybe

1:24:58

we're seeing something. We can't put

1:25:00

everything under that category with something

1:25:02

as extraordinary as this. And people

1:25:04

are putting their reputations on the

1:25:06

line. I mean, we're seeing a

1:25:09

lot of that right now. With

1:25:11

these people are coming forward that

1:25:13

are F16 pilots, F18 pilots, I

1:25:15

mean, people with some serious credentials

1:25:17

that that could go to jail

1:25:19

if they're lying or be dismissed

1:25:21

from. or lose their clearances. Even

1:25:23

if, even if Congress says, well,

1:25:26

we got a whistleblower protection act

1:25:28

or whatever, it's like, that doesn't

1:25:30

mean really anything. You know, if

1:25:32

you feel like you're being threatened.

1:25:34

Yeah. Very true. I mean, I

1:25:36

hope they do something because that

1:25:38

is happening. Yeah. But a few

1:25:40

people. There is, there are private

1:25:42

funds now which are coming out

1:25:45

like the UAP disclosure fund, I

1:25:47

think, and some other private organizations

1:25:49

that are. gathering money for whistleblowers,

1:25:51

right? Because one of the things

1:25:53

that like, aside from life-threatening interactions,

1:25:55

they're also just threatening to have

1:25:57

no pension. Right? Right. And that's

1:25:59

like a big deal if you

1:26:02

got, you know, family and you're

1:26:04

trying to take care of them

1:26:06

and you can't enter the workforce

1:26:08

again because your reputation's tarnished, who's

1:26:10

taking care of you? And, you

1:26:12

know, but, and if you see

1:26:14

how much the government takes care

1:26:16

of veterans, well, then you can

1:26:18

kind of draw a clear line

1:26:21

and see that, oh, you might

1:26:23

also be left out to dry.

1:26:25

So, you know, it's good that

1:26:27

a lot of these private organizations

1:26:29

are, I think we

1:26:31

answered this one. I mean, I'll

1:26:33

throw it up, but maybe you

1:26:36

got something else to add to

1:26:38

it. But, uh, sure. We did,

1:26:40

I think we did talk about

1:26:43

this. How cool is that? That's

1:26:45

awesome. What was the purpose of

1:26:47

the aerial sighting? I find the

1:26:50

interesting part, and it was a

1:26:52

very real thing, or the messages

1:26:54

they got, the kids. What made

1:26:57

me really convinced like that really

1:26:59

happened was the males that did

1:27:01

not want to talk about it.

1:27:04

Yet they had had that images

1:27:06

put into their hand about the

1:27:08

destruction of the planet, what we

1:27:11

were doing, stuff like that. That

1:27:13

was a very real thing. You

1:27:15

know, I initially thought, well, maybe

1:27:18

this is what happens when you

1:27:20

see something weird and odd you

1:27:22

start thinking about your own environment

1:27:25

and it causes all kinds of,

1:27:27

you know, I kind of explored

1:27:29

that quite a bit quite a

1:27:32

bit. But when I started to

1:27:34

find kids that were, talk to

1:27:36

me about it, but did not

1:27:39

want to discuss it on camera,

1:27:41

or didn't want to talk about

1:27:43

it at all, yet they admitted

1:27:46

that that happened, that was pretty

1:27:48

interesting. And so, you know, why

1:27:50

kids? Why tell them that? I

1:27:53

mean, they're going to grow up,

1:27:55

they're growing, you know, they're grown

1:27:57

up now and just... How are

1:28:00

they influencing society from what they

1:28:02

learned? They're all over the world.

1:28:04

It's very common for people that

1:28:07

have had... counters the very same

1:28:09

thing. It's not just that. It's

1:28:11

a pretty common aspect to this

1:28:14

that you're shown certain things about

1:28:16

your own species, what's your own

1:28:18

species is doing to this environment.

1:28:21

Kind of takes the heat off

1:28:23

you as a alien entity too

1:28:25

I feel, you know, feel like

1:28:28

you're like, oh you think I'm

1:28:30

scary. Yeah, look what you're doing.

1:28:32

You think exactly like how scary

1:28:35

this is, right kind of softens

1:28:37

the blow a little bit maybe.

1:28:39

you know, to be like, no,

1:28:42

no, no, we're not the bad

1:28:44

guys. You know, it's like every

1:28:46

zombie movie I've ever watched. It's

1:28:49

not the zombies you gotta be

1:28:51

afraid of. You know, it's the

1:28:53

people, it's the humans. Yeah, interesting.

1:28:56

Well, I mean, I was a

1:28:58

reference to wildlife and how we,

1:29:00

you know, animals overpopulate, when their

1:29:03

deer overpopulate, they start to get

1:29:05

disease and they start to have

1:29:07

other issues, so we call them

1:29:10

to keep that from happening from

1:29:12

happening. You know, there's just tons

1:29:14

of things we do with because

1:29:17

we can't have a conversation about

1:29:19

what you're doing. We know a

1:29:21

little better than they do. Yeah,

1:29:24

about certain things that are going

1:29:26

to happen if they go too

1:29:28

far in the direction. Yeah. And

1:29:31

you know, that is interesting too

1:29:33

that like just like giving the

1:29:35

children these images and talking and

1:29:38

visiting the children, you know. They

1:29:40

grow up, they're affected by this

1:29:42

for life, you know, as you

1:29:45

know with your interactions with them,

1:29:47

but they go on to also

1:29:49

sort of become in their own

1:29:52

ways ambassadors for the phenomenon. Yeah,

1:29:54

right. A lot of people out

1:29:56

there, not just that incident, but

1:29:59

you don't just forget it and

1:30:01

move on. I mean, look at

1:30:03

even, you know, you want to

1:30:06

look at Travis Walton. Like he's

1:30:08

not going to go and get

1:30:10

a regular job. No, then now

1:30:13

this is his life, you know,

1:30:15

and so they must be aware

1:30:17

that they have that effect. True,

1:30:20

but you don't. don't get paid

1:30:22

for that. No. Right. Yeah. You

1:30:24

know what I mean? And if

1:30:27

you do, you get ostracized. Apparently.

1:30:29

That's true. It's, but it's such

1:30:31

an important thing to share and

1:30:34

boy, so many people and what

1:30:36

they do have to share is

1:30:38

really that wonder. We talked with

1:30:41

magic, right? But it's actually real.

1:30:43

Yeah. It's a real. It's not

1:30:45

pretend. It's not. It's going to

1:30:48

take time. But I just think

1:30:50

of all these people that have

1:30:52

come forward, so many. And I

1:30:55

don't know how we, I don't

1:30:57

know how we treat those people

1:30:59

properly. That's been on my mind

1:31:02

a lot because they've been through

1:31:04

so much. They're misunderstood, mislabeled. I

1:31:06

don't know how we as a

1:31:09

society, as a species, integrate those

1:31:11

people. I mean, they should be,

1:31:13

in my mind, they should be

1:31:16

treated like veterans of a war,

1:31:18

you know, in a sense. Right,

1:31:20

and we're kind of making light

1:31:23

of it. Yeah, we leave them

1:31:25

out there. You know, I'm glad

1:31:27

that boroughs and, you know, they've

1:31:30

gotten medical care for what they

1:31:32

went through. Think, you know, that

1:31:34

was a huge deal. But there's

1:31:37

so many other people that they

1:31:39

just don't get the proper care.

1:31:41

Yeah, psychologically, you mean? Yeah, and

1:31:44

physically. And physically, yeah, in some

1:31:46

cases, which has been mentioned in

1:31:48

the hearings as well, that like,

1:31:51

hey, if this isn't happening, why

1:31:53

retreating people for wounds? Right, right.

1:31:55

Like that's exposure to certain things.

1:31:58

Okay. Kind of insane that we're

1:32:00

treating wounds of a pretend phenomenon.

1:32:02

Yeah. No, car. I think we

1:32:05

got one more here. Well, I

1:32:07

mean, this is kind of exactly

1:32:09

what we just touched on, which

1:32:11

is synchronous. This is from hex

1:32:14

0811. Yeah, is the population ready

1:32:16

as a whole? I think so.

1:32:18

I think 20 years ago now.

1:32:21

30, you know, I think the,

1:32:23

hmm, there's so many parts of

1:32:25

it that have made it possible

1:32:28

to be at this point, which

1:32:30

is The web you know The

1:32:32

world has gotten a lot smaller

1:32:35

religion is Not as dogged in

1:32:37

a way that it was before

1:32:39

We're already on space. There's many

1:32:42

things that have come together, but

1:32:44

I think so I Think it's

1:32:46

what's going to propel us into

1:32:49

the future is just say okay,

1:32:51

and we're gonna have to take

1:32:53

that slow what? What

1:32:56

we, I mean, that's the

1:32:58

thing about confronting a superior,

1:33:00

you know, let's just say

1:33:02

that. An alpha species is

1:33:04

very humbling. And let's see

1:33:06

what that relationship is. And