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your loved ones. That's a... Hey

2:00

listeners, it's me David Chen what you're about

2:02

to hear is a bonus episode featuring

2:04

me Patrick Lepic and Christian Spicer where we

2:06

break down the differences and similarities Between

2:08

the video game the last of us part

2:10

two as well as the show the

2:12

last of us season 2 premiere Now our

2:14

original plan was to do one of

2:16

these bonus episodes each week and have

2:18

that available for paid subscribers at DecodingTV.com. But for

2:20

reasons we're going to get into in this episode,

2:22

I'm not sure if that plan is going to

2:24

work. However, we are going to try our best,

2:26

and so there's likely going to be at least

2:28

a couple more bonus episodes between now and the

2:30

end of the season. So if

2:33

you want to get all bonus episodes,

2:35

become a paid subscriber at DecodingTV.com.

2:37

Get ad -free episodes, early access episodes,

2:39

and the occasional bonus episode. Thanks to

2:41

everyone who's a DecodingTV.com subscriber. You

2:43

are the ones who are helping to keep

2:45

this podcast going, and we really appreciate it. All

2:48

right, here is the bonus episode. Enjoy this

2:50

one for free. We

2:55

see you getting after your fitness goals. But

2:58

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3:02

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on. Kim

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3:48

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Susan Knowles and Demi Burnett from

3:52

The Bachelor, and more. All episodes

3:54

of Got to Get Out are

3:57

now streaming on Hulu. Welcome

4:01

to our bonus segment about the

4:03

last of us, season two, episode one.

4:06

I'm David Chen here with Christian Spicer today

4:08

and Patrick Lepeg. This segment will contain

4:10

full spoilers for the video game. So if

4:12

you do not want to know, Everything

4:15

that happens in The Last of Us Part

4:17

2, do not watch or listen to this

4:19

full spoilers. We're in full spoilers mode, but

4:21

there's so much to discuss about how The

4:23

Last of Us Season 2, Episode 1, made

4:26

different decisions in the

4:28

game. So, Patrick Klepek, let's

4:31

talk about the biggest thing that changed in

4:33

the game, which is, in the video

4:35

game The Last of Us Part 2, you

4:37

are introduced to the character

4:39

of Abby. You start playing

4:41

as this character. You don't

4:43

even know who the f...

4:45

Hell of this character is

4:47

yep, right? And you're why

4:49

am I controlling this character?

4:51

Like it doesn't make any

4:53

sense This is weird She

4:55

is looking for someone where

4:57

we don't know who it

4:59

is. She's looking for or

5:01

why she's looking for him

5:03

or them and Her motives

5:05

are shrouded in mystery for

5:07

I would say a couple

5:09

hours after she's introduced The

5:11

show does not do that.

5:13

It's like, right away, Abby

5:16

is looking for Joel, she's trying to kill him

5:18

because she is somehow connected to one of the people

5:20

that died in the Fireflies. There's

5:23

another really interesting, correct me if two

5:25

of you picked up on, I didn't want

5:27

to make it a point with my

5:29

wife because I'm like really sensitive with spoilers

5:31

with her and what I know and

5:33

what I might be implying by asking her

5:35

questions, but in the first episode, we

5:37

get to see with Abby and her crew

5:39

and there's lots of crosses. But

5:42

we don't actually, they don't

5:44

clarify. Correct. Like what, but

5:46

they do, they do not explain her

5:48

relationship to the person. Well, but if you

5:50

keep watching the episode and HBO always

5:52

does a thing where, you know, you get

5:54

a teaser for the next episode, which

5:56

we skip past, but then we love watching

5:58

like the kind of podcast that they

6:00

do behind the episode. And

6:02

immediately when they cut to like,

6:05

Caitlin, you were talking about like your care is like,

6:07

oh yeah, yeah, Joe killed my father. I

6:12

didn't bring it up with my that just

6:14

seems like a continuity or I don't know

6:16

how you would call I guess a continuity

6:18

era of like order of like how they're

6:20

revealing things because the show is deliberate not

6:22

saying that but then it kind of gets

6:25

slipped in the behind the scenes part and

6:27

I didn't like I didn't even ask my

6:29

wife I was like hopefully that one just

6:31

sort of slid past and then because I

6:33

feel like that's going to be a big

6:35

moment for her like later on but I

6:37

was pretty sure like that that was not

6:39

mentioned explicitly in the first episode. I agree

6:42

that the behind the episode gave stuff away

6:44

they shouldn't have. I think

6:46

this is a really fascinating decision, right?

6:48

And I think, let me put this

6:51

out there, you guys tell me what

6:53

you think of this. I think the

6:55

reason they did this is because you

6:57

can be engaged playing a character you

6:59

don't know, but it's much harder to

7:01

be engaged with this character Like

7:03

if you had like Caitlin Dever the whole

7:06

season, she's like, looking for Joel. You

7:08

don't even know who she's looking for.

7:10

Maybe she's like, she's looking for someone. And

7:12

we don't know who she's looking for. The audience would be

7:14

like, what the hell is going on? Like this makes it.

7:16

Why are we spending time with this character that makes

7:18

no sense? It's a lot easier to have someone play a

7:21

character that they don't know than to watch a character

7:23

who you don't know and you don't know what their motivations

7:25

are. Do you know what I mean? And I think

7:27

that really came to light for me when I was watching

7:29

this. So like, oh, that's why they just revealed it

7:31

right away. Now. Very different effect very

7:33

different effect than playing the game. But yeah, what

7:35

do you does that make sense to you guys that

7:37

that track for you guys? What do you think? It

7:40

does I think what I love so

7:42

much about video games is the interactivity

7:44

brings us into the character You know

7:46

what even if it's Mario something without

7:48

much of a story right you being

7:50

that character You put some of yourself

7:52

in it in that character as you

7:54

play And so I think

7:56

you're right, Dave, in the video game,

7:58

you playing as Abby, you are immediately

8:00

rooting for her. Yeah, you're rooting for

8:03

her because she is you. Yeah. Yeah. If

8:06

Abby fails your games over, you die. And

8:08

I think the way the

8:10

game handles its, you know, reveal

8:12

of who Abby is and

8:14

what she's doing after you've spent

8:16

time as her rooting for

8:18

her is something that. is pretty

8:20

dang unique to video games.

8:22

know, you have this moment of

8:24

like, oh crap, you

8:26

kind of reexamine what you've done, how

8:28

you feel about this character you've

8:30

spent so much time with. And

8:33

I think that's harder to

8:35

do in a non -interactive format. Certainly

8:37

there are ways that you can do it.

8:39

There are certainly shows and movies that have great

8:41

twists where you, you know, six cents. You

8:44

don't know what's going on until the

8:46

end, right? Like, you're still

8:48

able to kind of root for these

8:50

characters. But I feel like I

8:52

don't know if that would have been

8:54

right for pacing for this show.

8:56

And I think that's the big, I

8:59

mean, yes, the cold open is

9:01

a big change. But I think for

9:03

me, the biggest change, gentlemen, is

9:05

how they are structuring the timeline of

9:07

this show versus the video game.

9:09

The video game, we don't see that

9:11

full dance scene until much later.

9:13

Tell nearly the end of the game.

9:16

Yeah, now here's the thing the

9:18

game opens First of all we get

9:20

a little scene of Joel and

9:22

Ellie that's like takes place some time

9:24

after the first game Where they

9:26

talk about the guitar then cut to

9:28

four years later in the game

9:30

and then When the game opens four

9:33

years later the scene in the

9:35

barn with Dean and Ellie and the

9:37

bigot guy has just happened has

9:39

happened Then we don't actually see that

9:41

scene until the very like close

9:43

to the end of the game Whereas

9:47

right it's right in the first episode in this

9:49

game. So Christian, what do you feel like is the

9:51

net effect of that for you? I

9:53

think it's playing with the

9:55

emotional load and when those

9:58

things happen again because of

10:00

the the structure of the

10:02

game you're allowed to feel

10:04

for and root for these

10:06

characters and I think the

10:08

moment with Abby Am I

10:10

spoiling for the game? I

10:12

can say what happens. Joel

10:15

dies in the game. Is my wife here? I'm

10:19

immune! When

10:23

you, you

10:25

know, you and Abby kills Joel,

10:27

that is such a strong

10:29

moment and you feel Ellie's rage

10:31

and you are like, oh...

10:33

You just killed my best friend,

10:36

the player, right? Because you

10:38

had this connection with Joel from

10:40

the first game. I

10:42

am on team Ellie.

10:44

Here we go. And then

10:46

as it analyzes her

10:48

rage, perhaps

10:50

misguided, and the

10:52

way she left Joel, I think

10:54

learning that interaction later really hits home.

10:56

It really, again, forces you to

10:59

reexamine what you've been doing and is

11:01

she doing this for Joel or

11:03

is she doing this because she messed

11:05

up and she never got to

11:07

say what she should have said because

11:09

we only have this moment. Dear

11:12

listener, you and I are having might

11:14

be our only moment. You know,

11:16

like nothing is guaranteed. And

11:18

I think the way it structures the timeline

11:20

is very effective in that way in the

11:22

game. And I don't know

11:24

if it would be as effective

11:26

for a TV show or if people

11:28

just feel lost and not sure

11:30

what's going on. Clepec,

11:34

what do you think about these these changes?

11:36

I think this is the show pulling a

11:38

punch, but not necessarily I love the game

11:40

and you guys hated it so go ahead

11:42

I know I love the game until like

11:44

the past the open world Seattle area and

11:46

then Just anyway, we don't have to we

11:48

don't to really David Dave and I gonna

11:50

be doing this every week plus Nick you'll

11:52

be gone plenty of time for David to

11:54

do this part And I've been fascinated like

11:56

a part of why I want to replay

11:58

the game or at least Well, I don't

12:00

know how much part of the game I'll

12:02

be able to replay to like track with

12:04

the season of this pace It might be

12:06

like four hours of the game before I

12:08

I could just stop but It's yeah, it's

12:10

with the pace we're going like the Joel's

12:12

death is the like penultimate episode like I

12:14

think it's gonna be like Patrick is predicting

12:16

Joel's not gonna die till the end of

12:18

this season whereas in the game It's like

12:20

the the thing that starts the game. I

12:22

think that is going to be Like

12:24

he dies in episode six, episode

12:26

seven deals with the aftermath and

12:29

then the like inciting event of

12:31

like the game is just the

12:33

cliffhanger for the subsequent season. But

12:35

I don't know. Pinterest work schedule

12:37

says maybe otherwise. He was a

12:39

busy man. Well, that's

12:41

why they have to establish the ensemble so that he

12:43

can be, you know, whatever. We'll see. I just

12:45

I think they're if they weren't going to do it

12:47

at the very beginning, I'm inclined

12:49

to believe it happens like at the

12:51

very end. Anyway, it's all to

12:53

say. The emotional state you are

12:56

in, sure, you can generate sort

12:58

of like empathy with a character you

13:00

don't know when you're controlling them

13:02

and they establish that immediately with

13:04

Abby just by the sheer fact that

13:06

you are interacting and controlling this

13:08

character and determining whether they live

13:10

or die. But like so

13:12

critical to the the inciting moment

13:15

in the video game is that

13:17

you don't understand Abby. Yeah. And

13:19

that you just understand Ellie and

13:21

that you're so fucking mad. at

13:23

Abby for what she does like

13:25

how could this be proportion like

13:28

in what world. Is like does

13:30

this make any lick of sense

13:32

and it's trying to center you

13:34

with Ellie's rage and taking everything

13:36

from that first game and just

13:38

hitting it with a golf club

13:40

to the shadows into a million

13:43

pieces in the show. Undercuts

13:46

like the ability for that to land in

13:48

the exact same way whether I'm not saying

13:50

it won't be. emotional,

13:52

it won't be interesting, it won't

13:54

be gratifying, it

13:56

won't be heart wrenching. But

13:59

from the jump, the show is

14:01

telling you she has a reason to

14:03

be pissed at Joel. She

14:05

has a legitimate grievance against

14:07

this man. And again,

14:10

as the behind the scenes stuff, we'll see

14:12

how quickly they get to the actual reveal that

14:14

it's her father that was the doctor that

14:16

puts his hands up. By

14:18

revealing that information or at least

14:20

seeding some of it into the brain

14:22

of the viewer early on Again, it's

14:25

either pulling a punch or it's the

14:27

show. It's the show being a little

14:29

more human then then unless nihilistic

14:31

then the game I don't know but

14:33

it is it's a really important change

14:35

To give any information on Abby and

14:37

her motivations early on ahead of the

14:39

consequences of of her decisions Especially because

14:41

it's a one -two punch in the

14:43

game because you not only don't know

14:46

who Abby is or what she's doing

14:48

But she you also don't know

14:50

exactly what she's doing when she kills

14:52

Joel who literally just saved her life

14:54

right Joel saves her life and then

14:56

she kills Joel you don't know why

14:58

she wanted to kill Joel like

15:00

at that point of the game even

15:02

at the moment that she's killing Joel

15:05

you don't understand like why she's doing

15:07

it and so the fact that Way

15:09

before that moment in the show.

15:11

We are already revealed that information. It

15:13

does make for a very different effect. I

15:16

Think we'll have to wait until the

15:18

Joel killing scene to really decide like whether

15:20

or not this is a better decision

15:22

or or it makes more sense for the

15:24

show. I Do want to

15:26

acknowledge something else, you know, there's

15:28

a few topics. I wanted to discuss

15:30

one of them is you know

15:32

Abby in the game Has a very

15:35

different physical appearance than in the

15:37

show Right. And she is basically built

15:39

like a tank. She

15:41

has massive upper

15:43

body strength. And

15:45

what's cool about that is

15:47

this is a person who

15:49

has been refining their body

15:51

to exact revenge for like,

15:53

I think it's many years. It's not

15:56

just five years. It's like many, many

15:58

years. Her stealth takedown in the game,

16:00

which they established from the jump is

16:02

like. It like Ellie's always running around

16:04

with, you know, like a night where

16:06

Joel's got a knife to take out.

16:09

Like, yeah, she just like now I'm

16:11

just going to wrestling move suffocate you

16:13

to the ground. Yeah, she is just

16:15

that like she's just that strong. It

16:17

is such a meaningful difference between the

16:19

like kind of like frail looking that

16:21

we are often exposed to in the

16:24

game. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that

16:26

the really like. There's

16:29

not that many actors that have

16:31

that physique and then are also

16:33

really good actors that could pull

16:35

this done it if they wanted.

16:37

They made a choice. But

16:39

I think they did it this way

16:41

because I think Caitlyn Dever and Bella Ramsey

16:43

actually look like evenly matched to each

16:46

other. You could imagine if they had a

16:48

fight, that would be a close fight.

16:50

And I think they needed to do it

16:52

that way, is my guess. But they're

16:54

not evenly matched in the game. That's

16:57

true. Abby beats the shit out of

16:59

Ellie. I mean, Abby,

17:01

Abby wins, you know, and it's

17:03

you get a rematch and, you

17:05

know, different takes on it, but

17:08

they're not evenly matched. And I'm

17:10

curious if in this show they're

17:12

trying to present Ellie as perhaps

17:14

the better fighter, like right now

17:16

we've seen her as the one

17:18

honing her body and honing her

17:21

fighting and being this, you know,

17:23

wild animal barely contained. And

17:25

well, I think to make it more

17:27

plausibly even like in the game There would

17:29

be no question that Abby would completely

17:31

win right but like wish like a bug

17:33

But like but like in the show

17:36

now there's like some tension You know that

17:38

that that might there might be even

17:40

that's there. I'm sorry Chris. I didn't mean

17:42

to drop good Oh, no, no, that's

17:44

great. I mean, I think it's different tension

17:46

because I think part of the tension

17:48

in the game is How is this? You

17:50

know scrawny kid gonna take down the

17:52

Hulk and it's not gonna be it's gonna

17:54

be just anger And can she rage

17:56

her way through it? In the end of

17:58

the game, the fight at the beach,

18:01

I mean, it is just absolutely brutal. But

18:03

at that point, Abby is a different

18:05

person. You know, Abby has, dare

18:09

I say, completed, but completed

18:11

her journey, her character's journey.

18:13

And Ellie is about to.

18:19

That's a good way to put it. Yeah,

18:21

well said. Well said, Christian. And so it's

18:23

it's a different situation and I'm curious now,

18:26

you know, what that moment looks like. I

18:28

also I did watch a little bit of

18:30

the this season on The Last of Us

18:32

at the end of the episode because the

18:34

way the episode ends, you don't see Abby's

18:36

physique. I was like, oh, is she did

18:38

this actor, you know, pull a cumale and

18:40

they shot, you know, is it like do

18:42

we have ripped cumale now in this in

18:44

this? And it doesn't look like she did,

18:46

which I'm not saying she should or anyone

18:48

should put their stress on their body. But.

18:50

Just based on the end of the first

18:53

episode, I wasn't sure if we'd see her

18:55

buffer in this five -year gap, but it doesn't

18:57

look like we do. Yeah. Hey,

19:01

guys, it's Corey from Surviving Reality. Don't

19:04

miss Hulu's new original series, Got

19:06

to Get Out. It's a reality

19:08

competition series hosted by Simu Liu,

19:10

where nine celebrities are locked in

19:12

a mansion with 11 reality TV

19:14

rookies, all scheming on how to

19:16

escape the estate and take home

19:18

a million bucks. Got to Get

19:20

Out is stacked with reality royalty,

19:22

including Spencer Pratt from The Hills,

19:24

Kim Zolziak -Bierman and Cynthia Bailey

19:26

from Real Housewives, Omarosa from The

19:28

Apprentice, Susan Knowles and Demi Burnett

19:30

from The Bachelor, and more. All

19:32

episodes of Got to Get Out

19:34

are now streaming on Hulu. All

20:08

right. Another

20:11

big change that's made in

20:13

the show is the character of

20:15

Gale not a character in

20:18

the in the game One could

20:20

consider this a very minor

20:22

spoiler so like Spoiler even if

20:24

you've already been spoiled in

20:26

the game, but like my understanding

20:28

is Gale will be like

20:30

a significant character and That there

20:33

will like we'll see more

20:35

of Gale and learn more about

20:37

the situation with Joel and

20:39

her ex -husband as the season

20:41

goes on. Eugene? Yeah, I mean,

20:43

Eugene in the video game

20:46

is like, he's just

20:48

kind of recluse like

20:50

electronics tinkerer come across kind

20:52

of his one of

20:54

his secret hideouts where he

20:56

was growing weed and

20:59

like it's where Ellie and

21:01

Dina have. kind of

21:03

really confess their feelings for each other, have

21:05

like their first sort of like sexual encounter

21:07

with with one another. So it

21:09

a really big moment for the

21:11

two of them. But Eugene's weed factory

21:13

is like just it's just a

21:15

hideaway as they're like escaping a blizzard.

21:17

It's it's it's just sort of

21:19

like many things in The Last of

21:21

Us is like you are often

21:24

coming across scenes of the past and

21:26

picking, putting together what happened, who

21:28

these people were based on. What you

21:30

can find the notes you can

21:32

find the the art the art that's

21:34

like put in there by naughty

21:36

dog and their teams. My

21:38

suspicion is the bill episode they've

21:40

already said there's another one of

21:42

these where they're taking sort of

21:45

a. Another character and

21:47

giving that like really expanding out

21:49

who they were. My

21:51

suspicion is Eugene like is it

21:53

really fits like the timetable that

21:55

were in the season a character

21:57

mysteriously killed off screen and. I

22:00

sure sounds like Joel might have fucked up

22:02

again. I have strong feelings that it's not as

22:04

clean as he just got bit and Joel

22:06

had to put him down. I

22:08

don't know. think it could be like that. But yeah, I

22:10

think Eugene will be a very different character this season than

22:12

he was in the game, right? It's

22:15

the bigot episode, Patrick. That's what they

22:17

focus on. One hour. One

22:19

hour with the Sympathy for a bigot.

22:21

Episode five. Get to stand the load

22:23

with just that guy. Yeah. So

22:27

that's another big change. The scene

22:29

where Joel says, I saved her, right?

22:33

There's a very similar scene that happens in the

22:35

game. It's actually the opening

22:37

of the game, right? Is him

22:39

explaining to Tommy what actually happened

22:41

at the end of season one.

22:44

And then Tommy says, I'll take that to my

22:46

grave, basically. Game

22:48

one, game one. Yeah, game

22:50

one, that's right. Season one, yeah. Yeah,

22:52

well, both, right? Anyway, the...

22:56

But now like that has been transplanted into

22:58

this other conversation with Gale and so I'm

23:00

really curious like how that's gonna involve like

23:02

they probably saw some more dramatic Possibilities by

23:05

having it be a different character than Tommy

23:07

So we'll see we'll see if like the

23:09

whole Eugene Gale thing pays off I suspect

23:11

with what they did with like Nick Offerman's

23:13

character in the first season like that they

23:15

have some interesting plans for that So I'm

23:17

excited about that but so far like not

23:19

really enough to go on to decide whether

23:22

it's worth it or not I

23:25

found it to be really

23:27

interesting. The supermarket scene is

23:29

like really close like between

23:31

the supermarket scene the settlement

23:34

the bar and scene like

23:36

they really recreated the scenes

23:38

from the game in very

23:40

With high levels of fidelity

23:42

they even use the same

23:44

music from the game for

23:46

that scene where they're dancing

23:48

and kissing each other and

23:50

I just wanted to remark

23:52

that I thought the sort

23:54

of Fidelity to the

23:56

original game was really impressive like I was

23:58

like wow they really like shot for

24:00

shot some of the shots are like POV

24:02

behind Ellie's head like some of the

24:04

shots are identical to they do without making

24:06

it feel like a video you know

24:08

what I mean like I never You know

24:11

it yeah being experimental with your you

24:13

know camera work and you're adapting a video

24:15

game like fine like I usually find

24:17

that stuff to be Like really goofy when

24:19

you're trying to just emulate like the

24:21

way a video game camera works. I what

24:23

I find is like what I've always

24:25

appreciated in the last of us Is like

24:27

finding ways to like Hey, like that's

24:29

just a good shot like let's just keep

24:31

that and it both works like effectively

24:33

In the show and also ends up being

24:35

kind of an homage like in and

24:37

of itself I mean there's like a whole

24:39

like one of the first puzzles in

24:41

the last of us part two is like

24:43

the first safe that you have to

24:45

crack is you have to find the birthdate

24:47

of a dog on an employee of

24:50

the month board. Right. And in the show,

24:52

they keep the pan over to the

24:54

employee of the month board that has the

24:56

dog there. There's no

24:58

safe to be solved. You know, they excise

25:00

all that sort of like gameplay stuff.

25:02

But that's a moment where it's like, all

25:04

right, like this is a fun little

25:06

sequence for the players to recognize that otherwise

25:08

just functions as sort of, you know,

25:10

world building for anyone just watching it as

25:12

a television show. But it doesn't scream. Video

25:15

game Easter egg like it is it

25:17

is it is just really smart. very

25:19

organic. Yeah, it's very organic Here's no

25:21

one north on the beach and uncharted

25:23

right get it right? It's

25:25

similarly they use the bottles to distract the

25:27

clicker and that is a Extremely common mechanic

25:29

from the game that you need. Do they

25:31

not do that in season one at all

25:34

not a single time I don't recall. It's

25:36

very possible. They did I don't remember but

25:38

anyway that whatever it is It's definitely an

25:40

illusion to the game Well, yes, I mean,

25:42

yes, it is it is like when that

25:44

shot happened like it kept an extra beat

25:46

which I felt like a nod to like

25:48

game fans like, you know, you do this

25:50

900 ,000 times when you play the video game.

25:53

But I was like, did they really never

25:55

do that in the first step? The first

25:57

season they might not have. They might not

25:59

have in the game. They

26:02

it's Dina and Ellie go off by

26:04

themselves to do the patrol. And there's

26:06

not this whole crew of other people. There's other women

26:08

named Kat that they have a relationship with. And I'm like.

26:10

I am curious, like, why did they add those people? Like, what was

26:12

the point of that? We don't know yet. We don't know yet,

26:14

but I like to be irritating. I think

26:16

I think it is tracks with they

26:18

want why are Dina and like

26:21

and Ellie like so immediately attracted like

26:23

because they're the same person in

26:25

many or like different in like they're

26:27

bucking of authority. And I think

26:29

the presence of those other characters. Sure,

26:31

you can see them going into

26:33

the grocery store as as quote reckless

26:35

as the outside viewer. I think

26:37

those other characters exist to sort of

26:39

remind you like. this is not

26:41

how we like the reason Jackson has

26:43

survived this long is like brave

26:45

people following the rules and will there

26:47

be consequences that are like natural

26:49

extensions of like young kids being young

26:51

kids like what happens when these

26:54

two keep pushing those those boundaries when

26:56

you live in a society. I

26:58

think you hit on it perfectly with where there'll

27:00

be consequences for that type of reckless action because

27:02

I love that scene. in the council where Ellie's

27:04

like, if you were, you were in Joel to

27:06

Tommy, she's like, if you were in Joel, you

27:08

would have gone in. And he's like, that's different.

27:11

She's like, how? Yeah. And his wife's like,

27:13

how? I was on her side of that

27:15

one. I was like, wait, you shouldn't have

27:17

gone in either. Like, what? How is that

27:19

different? But Tommy also, you know, if not

27:21

directly, definitely passively says, hell, yeah,

27:23

I would have gone in also, you know,

27:25

and like, so there is,

27:27

and I don't know if that's going to

27:30

come back with. Joel and Eugene and Tommy,

27:32

if that was a similar situation that they

27:34

went in and did something, but this idea

27:36

of society has rules and we need to

27:38

follow them for the common good. And

27:40

Joel also oftentimes representing that, protect our

27:42

own, but he's also this catalyst for

27:44

breaking the rules because it's not a,

27:46

I can park in a handicap spot

27:48

if I want to, cause I'm just

27:50

running into the store to grab some

27:52

ice. I can park on

27:55

the fire curb because I'm just picking

27:57

up my kid from school. We

27:59

live in this world where people are like,

28:01

oh, it's okay if I do it because I'm

28:03

doing it because of this. And

28:05

I think seeing that reflected

28:07

in Jackson Society and this mirror

28:10

of Joel Tommy and now

28:12

Ellie Dina in the show has

28:14

the potential to be really

28:16

fascinating. Any

28:19

other differences we want to mention I

28:21

mean the only other one that really

28:23

comes to mind to that might be

28:25

worth mentioning is The very end of

28:27

the episode and like how the reveal

28:29

plays out in the game versus the

28:31

show In the game you are playing

28:34

as Abby Like you're you're playing as

28:36

Abby and then you're playing as Ellie

28:38

right and it's cutting back and forth

28:40

between the two and Then you're playing

28:42

as Abby who's kind of like I

28:44

believe what she does is she's like

28:47

They see the Jackson settlement and you don't

28:49

know why she wants to go in there

28:51

like what she wants to find but you

28:53

know that it's of importance to her and

28:55

then she's like and her friend I think

28:57

Owen is like we got to do this

28:59

carefully because there's like a thousand people in

29:02

there and like we don't to be in

29:04

a bad situation and So she's just like

29:06

fuck it. I'm doing it myself and then

29:08

she just starts starts like running towards the

29:10

settlement but then gets like attacked by zombies

29:12

and Then Joel comes in and saves her And

29:15

then it's like, hey, guess what? The person she

29:17

was actually looking for was Joel all along. And it's

29:19

like, it's like shocking reveal. So we're definitely, that's

29:21

definitely not happening in the show, right? Like, whatever, however

29:23

it plays out, it's not going to happen. It's

29:25

not going to play out that in that way because

29:27

we already know that she's looking for him. So

29:30

I am really curious, like. One

29:33

of the cool things about the game was

29:35

you know that Joel's out on patrol. You

29:37

know that Abby's like in that area. And

29:39

then so like you, when they intersect, it's

29:41

like, oh my God, like it happened. There's

29:43

like a really satisfying thematic payoff there, or

29:45

not thematic, like a plot payoff there. And

29:48

so I'm just curious like how that's all

29:50

gonna happen, right? Like, I don't know if

29:53

you guys have any speculation or thoughts, but

29:55

I'm curious how the show's gonna handle the

29:57

meeting of Abby and Joel. for the first

29:59

time to Patrick's prediction when it will happen

30:01

because I think it happens like 90 minutes

30:03

into the game. Yeah, David, our whole original

30:05

plan was like, all right, so like, we're

30:07

gonna do like the recaps and reactions to

30:09

the first episode, then you and I'll play

30:11

like two hours of the game a week

30:14

and like, we'll just break down. And then

30:16

I played the first two hours and went,

30:18

well, that plans out the window because I

30:20

don't know if we're gonna get to any

30:22

of these scenes until the end of this.

30:24

There's still many differences to talk about, but

30:26

I guess I'm off, I guess I can

30:28

stop playing the video game until season three.

30:30

Um, I guess sort of where the video

30:32

games like 20 hours long and it's like

30:35

this season might not cover. more

30:37

than two hours. Well, I mean,

30:39

we should, you know, the video

30:41

game is like really two video

30:43

games, right? It's a split narrative

30:45

in which there are overlapping layers

30:47

at the outset, but then primarily

30:49

becomes a story of of Ellie

30:51

until it becomes a story of

30:53

of Abby and then everything intersects

30:55

again at the conclusion of everything.

30:58

There was no way they were going

31:00

to do that for the television adaptation.

31:03

But as a result of how they're

31:05

mixing the timelines, It just

31:07

makes like the idea of like playing the

31:09

game alongside the show, which you could 100 %

31:11

do the first time around. Absolutely. You can't,

31:13

like, if you, like, well,

31:15

I guess if you're listening to this, then

31:17

you don't have to be warm. Like, I

31:19

almost feel like we should have told people

31:21

at the end of the, like, don't go

31:23

play the video game. Like, do, like, if

31:25

you're going to watch this season, like... or

31:28

beware about what you're in for if you

31:30

play the video game because the order of

31:32

operations is just happening at a far different

31:34

pace. I do think that what is going

31:36

to happen in the show is throughout the

31:38

video game there's a bunch of flashbacks. Yeah

31:40

to Joel and Ellie's earlier that I

31:42

mean that that's all happening Those will

31:44

all those will all be in season

31:46

two the spaceship like the only go

31:48

in the spaceship and yeah shot in

31:50

this The shot in the trailer of

31:52

the spaceship like that's gonna happen So

31:54

they're just gonna layer in a bunch

31:56

of flashback and also I think it's

31:58

pretty clear from the trailer We know

32:00

that there is a moment in the

32:03

video game where Joel reveals to Ellie

32:05

what he did at the end of

32:07

season one and that

32:09

happens in flashback in the game, and

32:11

I think it will happen in flashback

32:13

in season two as well. Now,

32:19

I'm really, yeah, I'm

32:21

kind of curious about

32:23

how that's gonna play

32:25

out, because in the

32:27

game, right, in the present day of

32:29

the game, Joel and Ellie are like not

32:31

really happy with each other, and then you find

32:34

out it's because Joel had

32:36

told Ellie earlier. Hey, I killed all these people and

32:38

I didn't let you sacrifice yourself and then Ellie's

32:40

like I'm gonna go back to the settle but

32:42

but you and I are done. That's what she says

32:44

in the game. I

32:46

Am curious like did that already like in

32:48

the show do we assume that that has

32:50

already taken place right like and that's gonna

32:52

be revealed in a flashback? Cuz it's possible

32:55

like the way the show is playing it

32:57

maybe that hasn't happened yet right like you

32:59

know I'm saying like She could

33:01

just be generally pissed at him because she's a teenager.

33:03

You know what saying? That's my that's

33:06

that's my take. I think like

33:08

what was flashback in the game might

33:10

be. It may be present day

33:12

present day, which is will lead to

33:14

a different emotional space for Ellie

33:16

again. Like this is like to have

33:19

Ellie if Ellie knows what Joel

33:21

did like Yes, she's he's gone. But

33:23

like it's that's a very different

33:25

emotional space for her to be in

33:27

upon his death than it would

33:29

be to, like, in the order

33:31

that the game kind of, like, plays all that

33:33

stuff out. Yeah, yeah. So I'm curious, like, when

33:36

Joel tells Ellie what he did at the end

33:38

of season one, is it going to be a

33:40

flashback or is it going to be, like, in

33:42

the present day timeline of the show? Because

33:44

in the game, it was a flashback. And

33:48

they do have a rift now, like, in

33:50

the show as well. So it's like, maybe, is

33:53

there, is that the reason for it? Who

33:55

knows? I'm curious. Anything

33:57

else you guys came to mind in

33:59

terms of comparing the game with the show

34:01

and Patrick I agree with you I

34:03

was like I was like play through the

34:06

game. I'm like wow this is I

34:08

was like oh maybe it's a little bit

34:10

like maybe the the shotgun to the

34:12

leg is like a maybe that's like in

34:14

an hour and like bam like oh

34:16

okay no it was like two minutes from

34:18

now all right OK. When

34:21

Abby shoots Joel in the leg. Yes. Yes.

34:23

Yes. Which is an incredible sequence in the game,

34:25

by the way. Oh, it's I mean, there's

34:27

no way to go back to that. Like, I

34:29

mean, it is why, you know,

34:31

they the the all the folks

34:34

involved in the show have talked about.

34:37

So my my prediction that it's like the

34:39

death is like it little informed speculation

34:41

because they've said like a late episode of

34:43

the season. They said we left a

34:45

little bit of our souls behind. on the

34:47

set. And I was like, well, then

34:49

what the fuck, you know, what else could

34:51

it could it be? But

34:54

like, I just make it is

34:56

the cruel person inside of you. Like, I just can't

34:58

I can't fucking wait to you, motherfucker, because I have

35:00

to experience that yourselves. At

35:02

that point, when I was playing the

35:04

game, I was like, like, like two

35:06

hours back with this game, I was

35:08

like, I miss this world. I miss

35:10

these characters, like having a really good

35:13

time, like, because we aren't at the

35:15

point where I fell off. the narrative

35:17

that the game was telling. I'm reminded

35:19

why I consider that original game to

35:21

be a classic and an all -time

35:23

great, and why I've enjoyed revisiting that

35:25

story in different forms. In

35:28

the punch of that original

35:30

death, despite it

35:33

being a game that I don't care

35:35

for, I was like... Respect video like yeah,

35:37

holy shit man. I was genuinely shocking

35:39

and the way was the way it was

35:41

done was really well done too because

35:43

like we said you don't know what's going

35:45

on and and There's some really brilliant

35:47

moments when Abby shows up She basically takes

35:50

Joel and Tommy back to her house

35:52

right with like all the all the other

35:54

fireflies are staying there and they're like

35:56

oh my she's like One of them says

35:58

to her like oh my gosh. You

36:00

really lucked out. You barely escaped those Cordyceps,

36:02

you know and and she's like Oh,

36:04

you have no idea how lucky you are.

36:07

You know, like, it's like, yeah, we

36:09

really like that because she's been searching for

36:11

this guy forever. And then he just

36:13

shows up randomly. There's

36:15

this kind of like, and you don't

36:17

even understand that that's what's happened until later

36:19

on. Right. Right. But

36:21

I think, yeah, they decided in the

36:23

show they cannot string the audience

36:25

along for that long because people just

36:27

get frustrated. They're like, who is

36:29

this character? Like, why are we following

36:31

them? It doesn't matter. I think

36:33

you would have had to make. Yeah,

36:35

you know the choice you would

36:37

have to make is To just not

36:39

introduce Abby at all. Yeah until

36:41

like you just wouldn't she would just

36:43

not be a president Just comes

36:45

out of nowhere out of nowhere and

36:47

like takes Joel out and like

36:49

that would be that's someone they save

36:51

right they set up that they

36:53

take in Refugee so Joel goes out

36:55

and saves a refugee and then

36:57

I'm doing it. I'm doing the thing

36:59

you want me to bam. Yeah,

37:01

honestly You laying it out that way

37:03

It feels like that line from

37:05

the first episode is going to be

37:07

like, oh, he decides to like

37:10

make progress as a person and like

37:12

put himself out there. And

37:14

then, you know, he is forced to deal

37:16

with the consequences of his previous actions. Maybe

37:18

that's what that's what the show is going

37:20

to do, actually. It's very possible because in

37:22

the game, the way it plays out is

37:24

there's like a zombie attack. And

37:26

that's what brings them together. But maybe.

37:30

It's something different. Maybe like they need to

37:32

figure out how to infiltrate the town and

37:34

so they're like, hey, we will pretend I'm

37:36

getting into the town that makes that would

37:38

be So different but also still like that

37:40

would be different in a holy Yeah, now

37:42

that man. That sounds really interesting. I hope

37:45

that's where the show goes. Yeah, that's my

37:47

god I think it's a little bit of

37:49

both. They're trying to get in Joel's on

37:51

patrol Whatever for some reason he's out he

37:53

finds these people he saves them he brings

37:55

them back You know, and maybe even like

37:57

we don't need to go with you and

37:59

he's like, no, no, no. And it's like

38:02

he's grown. Yeah. That's why it's another real

38:04

kneecap. But the other. That's why you never

38:06

take in people who need help. Thank

38:08

you. That's the lesson. I can't

38:10

be more. I be responsible for other

38:12

people's emotional states, David. Yeah.

38:16

The other really big change and it's not

38:18

from, I mean, I guess it is a

38:20

change from the game, but it doesn't really

38:22

exist in the game. And it's teased as

38:24

a big. Plot point for the

38:27

show is the cordicep in the pipe.

38:29

Yeah, you know their town and episode

38:31

one is hinted at its unsafe We

38:33

see the scene of the stalker You

38:35

know when she's fighting Ellie and she

38:37

had you know We again are reminded

38:39

of like they can sense through this

38:41

thing as it comes out of I

38:43

think it's like the nose hole. Yeah

38:45

The ghoul the fallout 76 ghoul nose

38:47

hole and it senses around and then

38:49

we see that same thing come out

38:51

of the pipe where they're working on

38:53

this house, you know That is another

38:55

time bomb, right? So we have this

38:58

external threat of Abby and her crew

39:00

that we are told about, and now

39:02

we have this, we're told the wall

39:04

is safe, and we have this internal

39:06

threat inside their safety, and

39:08

those working together is very different

39:10

than what's ever present in the game

39:12

for Jackson. Well, they call a

39:14

mass of infected a horde, right,

39:16

in The Last of Us, and

39:18

I think there's a reference to... horde

39:20

in the first and like so

39:22

it'd be very easy to imagine

39:25

like the what gets Joel and Abby

39:27

together is running from like a

39:29

horde -like incident. You could imagine there's

39:31

a blizzard, there's a horde that

39:33

gets the two of them to

39:35

intersect and instead of fleeing to the

39:37

firefly cabin, they flee to Jackson.

39:39

go to Jackson and that would

39:41

be interesting dynamic potentially, yeah. Look at

39:44

us, Craig Mazin it up right

39:46

now. Breaking story.

39:49

You know, that actually brings up the other thing, which

39:51

is that they talk about how smart some of

39:53

the clickers are. That's not in the game as far

39:55

as I recall, right? There's different types of clickers

39:58

in the game. There's like bloaters and

40:00

other, you know, but they're, they're concerned about

40:02

how smart these clickers are getting. I'm curious if

40:04

that's going anywhere, right? Like that's, that's not

40:06

a dynamic in the game at all. So

40:09

yeah, interesting openings

40:11

for new narrative

40:13

possibilities. We'll

40:15

see if it goes anywhere.

40:17

Also, there's potentially 30

40:20

more characters we have to

40:22

meet The Seattle stuff

40:24

do we? Like I know

40:26

like there's been casting for major characters

40:28

from the Seattle stuff Which is broadly stuff

40:30

that happens in the second half of

40:32

the game, you know How much do they

40:34

forward that stuff this season or it's

40:36

just seeded? I have no idea. Yeah Well,

40:38

we will see we'll be covering this

40:41

all season of the last of a season

40:43

two And we

40:45

hope you'll tune in. Subscribe to

40:47

us on YouTube at youtube.com at decodingTV

40:49

or check out the podcast, wherever your

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podcast can be downloaded. Become a paid

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member at decodingTV.com to support the show

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and get all episodes that we record.

40:58

But a big thanks to Christian Spicer for

41:01

joining us for this breakdown. Check out his

41:03

podcast, DLC. He's Patrick Lepic.

41:05

I'm David Chen. Thanks for tuning

41:07

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