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1:00

at mintmobile.com. And now, a next level moment

1:02

from AT&T business. Say you've sent

1:04

out a gigantic shipment of pillows,

1:06

and they need to be there

1:08

in time for international sleep day.

1:10

You've got AT&T 5G, so you're

1:12

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so the pillows will get delivered

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and everyone can sleep soundly, especially

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you. AT&T 5G requires a

1:27

compatible plan and device. Hello

1:30

everyone and welcome to Decoding

1:32

TV, a podcast about television.

1:34

Here's a bonus episode we're

1:36

going to do for you guys today

1:39

about the Whiteload of season 3 episode

1:41

5, Full Moon Party. I'm here today

1:43

with Sarah Mars from Laney Gossip. Sarah,

1:45

here's my question for you. Do you

1:48

take drugs or are you the drug?

1:50

That's my question. When you go to

1:52

a party, do you take drugs or

1:54

are you the drug? Well, if the

1:56

metric is sex in Ratliff, I take

1:59

drugs. Fair enough. Sarah Marr is a

2:01

very anti -Saxon raffle. Anyway, we're here

2:03

to talk about season three, episode five

2:05

of The White Lotus. Just as FYI,

2:07

we weren't originally sure if we were

2:09

gonna be able to do this podcast,

2:11

but I am here in Colorado right

2:13

now in a kind of mobile setup

2:15

and I have a mobile podcasting studio

2:17

situation. We're able to do it. I

2:20

do wanna say there are 60 mile

2:22

per hour winds whipping at this window

2:24

right next to, that I'm sitting next

2:26

to right now. So if you're some

2:28

whistling, that's what that is. I'm sorry

2:30

about that. It's just, obviously I have

2:32

my whole camera and my microphone and

2:34

my laptop and everything ready to go.

2:36

And then of course, there's

2:39

like tornado winds next to me. So

2:41

sorry if you encounter that, but we're gonna

2:43

press on anyway. I do wanna let

2:45

people know also that we're probably gonna record

2:47

at least two more episodes about, we're

2:49

gonna try to cover every single episode left

2:52

of the season, but we'll do at

2:54

least two more including next week's episode of

2:56

The White Lotus and the finale. So

2:58

let's get into it. Before we talk about

3:00

this week's episode of The White Lotus,

3:02

Sarah Morris, let's just talk about a couple

3:04

of things that happened in reaction to

3:07

last week's episode of The White Lotus. First

3:09

of all, we always love it when

3:11

people email us at decodingtvatgmail.com. And somebody wrote

3:13

in without naming who they are. So

3:15

I'm not even gonna like, it's weird to

3:17

not even have signed it with the

3:19

name, even a fake one. But

3:23

I'll just say their

3:25

screen name is RNN. So

3:27

RNN writes into decodingtvatgmail.com. Commenting

3:31

on your remarks last week,

3:33

Sarah Morris, about how it's

3:35

unrealistic that Belinda wouldn't have

3:37

known about the murder that

3:39

happened at The White Lotus

3:41

in Italy. And this person

3:43

writes into decodingtvatgmail.com, quote, you

3:45

would be surprised at the

3:47

kinds of things that happen

3:49

in the hospitality industry specifically

3:51

where people stay overnight. I

3:53

have had multiple experiences with

3:55

robberies, suicides, overdoses, just to

3:57

name a few. It's probably

3:59

sheer luck that I didn't

4:01

specifically have an experience with

4:03

a confirmed murder. But I

4:05

only worked out. one hotel for three

4:07

years. I can tell you that the ideas that employees

4:09

would be gossiping about a murder that happened at a

4:11

location in another country at the same resort chain is

4:13

absolutely ludicrous. It's also very unlikely that any of the

4:15

experiences they had at the hotel would end up on

4:17

Yelp reviews. No one is trying to broadcast the things

4:19

that happened to all the visitors to the resort. To

4:21

the contrary, we do everything we can to make sure

4:23

they are unaware, end quote. Anyway, he then goes on

4:25

to explain why they believe this is unrealistic realistic. You and

4:28

I had a similar reaction, which is

4:30

in many industries, including hospitality, there

4:32

is frequently a lot of

4:34

gossip, so I don't think

4:36

it was an unreasonable conclusion

4:38

for us to come to. And in

4:41

addition, this murder seemed like it was

4:43

international news based on what we saw

4:45

in the White Lotus season three. Here's

4:47

what I will give R&N. Is

4:49

I think the situation in Maui with

4:52

Armand. is 100% cover upable because it

4:54

happened between two people in the

4:56

privacy of a suite. I think

4:58

they could get Armand out of the hotel.

5:00

I think maybe some people who were

5:03

staying there might have been aware

5:05

that there something happened because you

5:07

might see the ambulance or the

5:09

coroner's van or whatever. I think

5:11

there's like something, but I think

5:13

they could kind of polish it.

5:15

as we've had a very tragic

5:17

circumstance and we apologize for any

5:19

inconvenience, this will be, you know,

5:21

gone in a few minutes with

5:23

or anything we can do for

5:25

you. I think you could smooth

5:28

the Armand situation over, especially because

5:30

I don't think they ended up

5:32

like pressing any charges in that

5:34

situation. So that one, I think,

5:36

is it's containable. Yeah, I think

5:38

that's a good point. The

5:40

Tanya McQuad death, we

5:42

actually saw a Google

5:44

search and there were

5:47

numerous major mainstream media

5:49

reports of what happened.

5:51

And if you remember back

5:53

to season two, bodies washed up

5:55

on the beach. Now how much

5:57

information can they cap?

5:59

Maybe some, but dozens,

6:02

if not hundreds of

6:04

guests, saw them removing

6:06

bodies from the beach,

6:08

and then it made

6:10

international news because a

6:12

person who died was

6:14

a famous heiress. It

6:17

would be like Paris

6:19

Hilton. in that circumstance,

6:21

you know, like people heard about

6:23

it. So in the Armand thing,

6:26

yes, I think they could contain

6:28

that, I think they could polish

6:30

it and smooth it over with

6:32

guests that it probably, outside of

6:35

the people who worked with Armand

6:37

and who knew him, maybe that

6:39

doesn't really expand. But there is

6:41

this thing that I like to

6:44

think about called the gossip bubble.

6:46

And I am the deputy editor

6:48

of a website with gossip in

6:51

the name. I've put a lot

6:53

of thought into gossip and how

6:55

it operates in our society. And

6:57

the gossip bubble is how much

7:00

information can you contain about a

7:02

person or a situation? And there

7:04

is always a point where you

7:06

can't contain the bubble anymore and

7:09

it will burst. Like an example

7:11

would be when John F. Kennedy

7:13

was president. A lot of information

7:16

was contained. That was a large

7:18

gossip bubble. And of course now,

7:20

today, 50, whatever years later, we're

7:22

aware of a lot of things

7:25

that were not popularly reported during

7:27

his lifetime. The bubble burst after

7:29

he died and after there was

7:32

a little less, like, preference given

7:34

to the powerful in the press.

7:36

The gossip bubble on the Tanya

7:38

McQuad situation seems to have burst.

7:41

It's international news. They're making a

7:43

Hollywood movie about it. And Belinda

7:45

knew her. And how many people

7:47

in Belinda's life in Maui knew

7:50

what happened because we do hear

7:52

in this episode that it's been

7:54

about a year since the events

7:57

of... one and that Belinda's life

7:59

was fairly significantly at least temporarily

8:01

derailed by Tanya kind of breaking

8:03

her heart over starting her own

8:06

spot. So how many people in

8:08

Belinda's life might have heard her

8:10

talk about Tanya McQuad and then

8:12

seen something online, seen something on

8:15

social media and said, did you

8:17

hear what happened? Like, I. I

8:19

think for the sake of dramatic

8:22

purpose for the show, we go

8:24

along with it, Belinda didn't know

8:26

she's just discovered this information. Fine.

8:28

It works within the logic of

8:31

the moment, but like real world

8:33

logic, I'm like, no, that gossip

8:35

bubble burst. She definitely heard about

8:38

this months ago. I

8:40

am inclined to fall on your

8:42

side of this, Sarah Mars, but

8:45

to certainly understand people's perspective. Some

8:47

people also brought up like Belinda

8:49

maybe didn't want to read about

8:51

Tanya after that event and that's

8:54

understandable as well, but ultimately I

8:56

think you're right about this. That

8:58

said, it's a fictional hotel, so

9:00

you know, we're only spending it.

9:03

Okay. Speaking of gossip. Here is

9:05

a headline from Variety. Jason Isaac

9:07

shuts down White Lotus penis question

9:09

and says it's odd There's a

9:12

double standard with male nude scenes

9:14

So this is a reference to

9:16

the fact that on last week's

9:18

episode of the White Lotus Jason

9:21

Isaac's plays a character who Accidentally

9:23

let his penis hang out in

9:25

front of his family members and

9:27

they all freaked out and they

9:30

were very upset about it and

9:32

There is some questions about whether

9:34

or not this was a prosthetic

9:36

penis. And on CBS mornings, Jason

9:39

Isaacs said, quote, a lot of

9:41

people are debating it. It's all

9:43

over the internet. And it's interesting

9:45

because the best actress this year

9:48

is Mikey Madsen at the Oscars.

9:50

And I don't see anybody discussing

9:52

her vulva, which is on screen

9:54

all the time. It's interesting that

9:57

this is double standard, end quote.

14:06

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint

14:08

Mobile. The message for everyone

14:10

paying big wireless way too

14:12

much. Please for the love

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of everything good in this

14:17

world, stop. With Mint you

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14:23

course if you enjoy overpaying, no

14:26

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14:28

overpaying. No judgments, but

14:30

that's weird. Okay, one

14:32

judgment. Anyway, give it

14:34

a try at mintmobile.com,

20:00

big theme of the episode. All right,

20:03

let's talk about briefly what

20:05

happens with the Ratliff brothers

20:07

who hang out with Chloe

20:09

and Chelsea. Some real incestuous

20:11

vibes going on this episode.

20:14

There's this moment when Lachlin

20:16

reaches out and like ruffles his

20:18

hair a little bit while they're

20:20

watching the fireworks and then they

20:22

kiss. They kiss and it's like,

20:25

hmm. Wonder if that's gonna

20:27

escalate. Yeah. I mean this is

20:29

a family with terrible boundaries.

20:31

Like they have the worst

20:33

boundaries. They all need therapy.

20:35

There has been a vibe.

20:37

I mean since the moment

20:39

Saxon showed up, I was

20:41

like, not good. And he

20:43

was inappropriate with Locklin multiple

20:45

times. So the fact that this

20:47

is like happening, I'm like, well,

20:49

I mean we were kind of

20:51

seeing some red flags that Nobody

20:53

else was paying attention to in terms

20:55

of the world of the show. So

20:58

yeah, but I think we all kind

21:00

of knew this was coming and I

21:02

do feel like this is sort of, you

21:04

know, early on I said, I

21:06

think Mike White might be trying

21:08

to get his own show canceled.

21:10

And this is why I thought that

21:12

because I'm like, oh, people are

21:14

not going to want to put

21:16

in the critical thinking required to

21:18

process. this plot turn, same feeling

21:20

for Sam Rockwell's character. I'm like,

21:23

I don't think people are going

21:25

to want to actually think about

21:27

what he's saying, they're going to

21:29

get hung up on the service

21:31

details. And with the Ratliff Brothers,

21:33

I'm like, you know, it's very

21:35

troubling, it's very upsetting, it's a

21:37

very dark storyline, but I do

21:39

think it kind of speaks to

21:41

not only the lack of boundaries

21:43

that this family has, but

21:46

lacking good, exterior relationships,

21:48

like kind of saying about like

21:50

hey she's not searching for something

21:52

there's nothing she it doesn't seem

21:54

like she's trying to fill a hole

21:56

the way that that Lori and Jacqueline

21:59

are and so she not really enjoying their

22:01

night out the way that they

22:03

are because it's not offering her

22:05

anything that she needs. You need

22:07

to have friends who in your

22:10

actual life not on vacation

22:12

will say that's messed up don't

22:14

do that right? Yeah well and

22:16

these people don't have that in

22:18

their lives. And Saxon does

22:20

not have you know he's striking

22:22

out with women he's he's tall

22:24

and he's handsome and he's rich.

22:26

He should be able to persuade some

22:29

woman to sleep with him and he

22:31

can't. He's just striking out left right

22:33

and center. Chelsea is barely tolerating him.

22:35

But he also doesn't seem like does

22:37

he have friends because the way he

22:39

talks about people when he's talking to

22:41

Loughlin about most people just want to

22:43

be used. It's like no, most people

22:45

just want to pay their bills. Most

22:47

people are just trying to get through

22:49

the day. Also, most people don't have

22:51

the power that you were born into. Their

22:53

last names don't matter. The money that

22:55

you have the money that you have

22:57

the money that you have. And how many

22:59

people do you know that work for you?

23:02

Like, what is Saxon's life? I think

23:04

it's probably a nightmare. I think

23:06

he probably does not have friends

23:08

and he doesn't have any real

23:10

positive relationships except with his blender

23:12

and his protein shakes. Some of

23:14

the stuff he has said, I'm

23:17

like, this is a guy who's

23:19

listening to a lot of Manosphere

23:21

podcasts. And so I'm not really

23:23

surprised if he's getting inappropriate with

23:25

his brother because I'm like, where are his

23:27

relationships? Like, he doesn't have good boundaries with

23:30

his family. When you compound that with someone

23:32

who seems to have some sexual hang-ups, he

23:34

seems to have, there seems to be something

23:36

psychosexual happening with him that we haven't, we're just

23:38

seeing flashes of it, we haven't really gotten into it,

23:40

maybe we never will, but like there seems to be

23:42

something there. Like when he says, he's like, oh, I want to go after

23:44

her because she's mean to me, and I like, I like, it's a challenge, I

23:46

like, it's a challenge, I like, I like, I like, it's a challenge, I like,

23:48

I like, I like, I like, it's a challenge, I like, I like, I like,

23:50

I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, it's a challenge, I like,

23:53

I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, it's a challenge, I like,

23:55

I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I Do you just like

23:57

it when a woman's a little bit mean to

23:59

you and that's totally fine. Some people like that.

24:01

To be fair, a lot of guys

24:03

like that, but yes. Yeah, it's totally

24:05

fine and normal. I don't dispute anything

24:07

you're, anything else you're saying. But he

24:10

just seems to have a psychosexual hang

24:12

up and then you compound that with

24:14

the lack of boundaries and you compound

24:16

that with the substances that they're abiding

24:18

in the general atmosphere. It's like of

24:20

course they crossed this line, of course

24:22

they did. And I feel like if he

24:25

had a more even keel, there would be

24:27

better boundaries in place, he wouldn't need...

24:29

The sheer amount of intimacy that

24:31

Saxon seems to need, and he's

24:33

trying to get it through sex, but

24:35

I don't think that's actually what

24:38

he's looking for, I think

24:40

he's just desperate for some

24:42

sort of outward connection to something

24:44

bigger, which is like the overarching

24:46

theme of the whole season, is

24:48

this spirituality and searching and hollowness

24:51

and... and fulfillment or lack of

24:53

fulfillment. And the only person who

24:55

seems really fulfilled is Kate who

24:57

did specifically say she goes to

25:00

church, she has a community. Saxon,

25:02

I think he just doesn't have

25:04

a community and you just add

25:06

all those other factors into it.

25:09

It's like, yeah, from the moment

25:11

he showed up and masturbated in front

25:13

of his baby brother, it's like

25:15

something bad is going to happen

25:18

because he's weird and he doesn't

25:20

have boundaries. I am very

25:22

curious if there's going to

25:24

be any self-realization, but I doubt it.

25:26

Moving on, back at the resort, Piper

25:28

finally admits to her parents that she

25:30

isn't writing a thesis, but is considering

25:33

spending a year in a

25:35

meditation center. Also, Timothy contemplates suicide.

25:37

So let's talk a little bit

25:39

about that. First of all, I

25:41

was actually genuinely shocked that there

25:43

was no thesis. That seemed like

25:45

a big betrayal. Like her being

25:47

a Buddhist like you can't

25:50

really be Buddhist you're not

25:52

like Chinese I thought that

25:55

was very funny and how

25:57

like she sees her world as

25:59

so from the world that they're

26:01

in, like they are such outsiders that

26:03

she can't contemplate like her daughter being

26:06

Buddhist or really buying into this way

26:08

of life and and just finding it

26:10

like there's a lot of like othering

26:12

and this is very strange going on

26:15

from the Parker Poise character which I

26:17

think is all very, feels very authentic.

26:19

So I appreciate all that stuff. And

26:21

I do really think Jason Isaacs is

26:24

probably doing. the most when it comes

26:26

to the performance this season, when it

26:28

comes to any actor performance this season,

26:30

just he has the most interesting work

26:33

to deal with, which is like, his

26:35

whole life is self-destructing. You see his

26:37

wife talking about like, what is everyone

26:39

going to think when they find out

26:41

our daughter is coming to a meditation

26:43

temple? And it's like, you're going to

26:45

be praying. For the time when that

26:47

was your biggest problem in your life, you

26:50

know, like you're gonna this will be the

26:52

good old days when you were looking back

26:54

and seeing like that was a good You

26:56

know, that was a good thing to deal

26:58

with for the time Sarah Mars any thoughts on

27:00

the other rent lifts this week? I do

27:03

agree. I think Jason Isaacs is just

27:05

giving a master class because it would

27:07

be easy for this to be a

27:09

one-note performance because Timothy from

27:11

the moment he learns of

27:14

the financial situation unfolding outside

27:16

the resort, he's essentially that's

27:19

his level and it would be

27:21

easy to just sort of coast. But

27:23

I feel like every second he's on

27:25

screen he is giving us so much

27:27

information, so much texture and color to

27:30

the performance. I actually find myself liking

27:32

Timothy. Like by the end of episode,

27:34

now we're five hours with these people

27:37

and I'm like, okay, I hated Saxon

27:39

for a minute one, I still hate

27:41

him. I didn't have an opinion on

27:43

Fabian, but now I hate him. I

27:46

still love Belinda, she's a ray of

27:48

sunshine. Timothy, I'm like, in another show,

27:50

he would be the big bad, but I feel

27:52

like he's almost the emotional heart of

27:54

the show. And Jason Isaacs is

27:56

doing such a good job, it's

27:59

a beautiful performance. That's why I said

28:01

like maybe just go ahead and engrave that

28:03

Emmy. I know he's got stiff competition, but

28:05

like Are we going to see a better

28:08

performance because and we still have four

28:10

more out? Three more hours to go.

28:12

Math was not my strong suit.

28:14

So it's like, I think every,

28:16

I love the Timothy scenes, even

28:19

though they are objectively very sad

28:21

and heavy and their suicidal ideation

28:23

in this episode. And that's very

28:26

difficult to think that he would

28:28

think the situation is so irretrievable

28:30

that that would be the only

28:32

solution is sad. But God, Jason

28:35

Isaacs is just so good.

28:37

Indeed. Completely agreed. There is

28:39

a song that he sings

28:42

during this episode. Lo,

28:44

how arose air blooming, which is

28:46

the song that is sung at the

28:48

end credits. I don't know if

28:50

you caught that, right? But he

28:53

starts like singing in his daughter's

28:55

like, please stop doing this. And

28:57

I'm reading here from Wikipedia that

28:59

hymn was it was a hymn.

29:01

It was originally written with two

29:03

verses that describe the fulfillment of

29:05

the prophecy of Isaiah for telling

29:07

the birth of Jesus. It emphasizes

29:09

the royal genealogy of Jesus and

29:11

Christian messianic prophecies. The hymn describes

29:13

a rose sprouting from the stem

29:15

of the tree of Jesse a

29:17

symbolic. device that depicts the

29:19

descent of Jesus from Jesse of

29:22

Bethlehem, the father of King David.

29:24

The image was especially popular in

29:26

medieval times and features in many

29:29

works of religious art from the

29:31

period." So what is the significance

29:33

of any of that? I'm just going

29:36

to wildly speculate Sarah. I have

29:38

no idea what any of this

29:40

is possibly meaning, but I think

29:42

The idea of Jesus being from

29:44

the lineage of David and Isaiah

29:46

is like, oh wow, like this

29:48

rose has sprouted up from this

29:50

branch. It's like it's like a

29:53

it's like a thing of hope, right?

29:55

It's like a it's like a

29:57

sign of hope that like saving

29:59

humanity and The episode

30:01

does end with him praying to God

30:03

and then cut to credits and that

30:05

him plays. And he's basically like searching

30:07

for that kind of same hope to

30:10

come out of this. You know, he

30:12

has a very not messianic line, but

30:14

obviously a very distinguished lineage.

30:16

And so he needs some hope to

30:18

spring up. Well, and I remain

30:20

unconvinced that he's actually going to

30:23

get into trouble. Like we haven't

30:25

heard a peep on that. Like there

30:27

was a little bit of his lawyer

30:29

being like, oh, you might want to

30:31

make a deal. And it's like, but

30:34

now it's radio silence. And I'm like,

30:36

I wonder if at the end of

30:38

all of this, it just sort of

30:40

works out. Or if he's able to

30:42

somehow present himself as a dupe. It

30:44

might in this situation it might be

30:47

better to present himself as a dupe

30:49

and just take it on the chin

30:51

like I got suckered that is embarrassing

30:53

but you know what's more embarrassing losing

30:55

all your money and going to jail

30:58

so yeah yeah so you know I

31:00

do think like And I was talking to somebody

31:02

at my work about this and I'm like, do

31:04

we know what he really did? Because like, what's

31:06

the scale of the guy's crime? Are we talking

31:08

like Bernie Madoff and he cheated a lot of

31:11

people out of money? I'm like, no, all we

31:13

really hear is that there was, he only made

31:15

$10 million, which for these people is pocket change.

31:17

And it seems like he maybe. co-signed

31:20

a deal or was somehow tangentially involved

31:22

in something that ended up and maybe

31:24

he thought it was kind of shady

31:26

but he maybe didn't know the extent

31:28

of it until now when it's blowing

31:30

up I'm like so I don't think

31:32

it's a birdie made-off situation I think

31:34

it's more of like he kind of

31:36

just trusted the wrong person I think

31:38

that's all I think that's all I agree

31:40

you know it reminds me a lot of

31:42

the Martha Stewart insider trading which like

31:45

the short version in my opinion she

31:47

did was not a big deal at all and like

31:49

they clearly just wanted to go after her it struck

31:51

me as that kind of situation where it's like okay

31:53

yes he made a little money but he was he

31:55

didn't even know that he was duping people like he

31:58

didn't even know that he was doing anything wrong So

32:00

anyway, that was my, that was

32:02

my, like, that's, that's my real

32:04

life analog is in my head

32:07

cannon. It's like a

32:09

Martha Stewart insider trading.

32:11

Yeah, well, I think there might

32:13

still be like a moment where

32:15

we realize like, oh, they're

32:17

going to be fine. Yeah, yeah,

32:20

we'll see. We'll see. That is

32:22

Sarah's prediction. And at this, yeah,

32:24

go ahead. I do think him

32:26

singing the hymn. Obviously she's

32:28

worried about what will people

32:31

think? I'm like, it's 2025.

32:33

They're going to be like, oh, you

32:35

have a weird daughter, so do I.

32:37

It's not a big deal. But, you

32:39

know, Piper says you didn't raise us

32:42

to be particularly Christian. And then Timothy

32:44

comes back with, I was an altar

32:46

boy when I was a child, and

32:49

he was reflecting on

32:51

it fondly. So I think

32:53

part of that is this

32:55

overarching theme of spirituality and

32:57

searching. it gave him something that

32:59

he found fulfilling. And as an

33:01

adult, he has lost that thing. And now

33:03

in his hour of need, he's singing the

33:05

hymn and praying, which let's assume he hasn't

33:07

done that in a while. And I do

33:10

think one thing that's interesting about this

33:12

season of the White Lotus, I

33:14

will be curious if we continue

33:16

to see more about how they

33:18

portray Buddhism, because we're seeing it

33:20

from a very Western perspective,

33:23

which is white people. looking for

33:25

something they're not getting in mainstream

33:27

American culture. But I would be

33:29

interested if we do we get

33:31

to see more of it, like

33:33

a fuller picture of it, because

33:35

I think there is a sort of

33:37

non-judgment on the belief system in terms

33:40

of whether it's a Christian church or

33:42

a Buddhist temple, you need something.

33:44

I think what Mike White is

33:46

saying up to this point is

33:48

the only people that seem to

33:50

have any sort of balance in

33:53

their life, any sort of fulfillment,

33:55

are the ones that have a

33:57

belief system, whether it's Judeo-Christian or

33:59

Eastern, that connects them to

34:01

something larger than themselves.

34:04

And I just, I hope we see

34:06

a little bit more of the

34:09

eastern side of it because we

34:11

have seen such a western slant

34:13

on it. And I would just

34:15

be curious, like, do we

34:18

get a more full picture of

34:20

what that really is? Because I

34:22

don't. I don't think he's trying

34:25

to pit one belief system against

34:27

the other. Yeah, I agree. I think

34:29

he's just saying, I don't care

34:31

what it is guys, but you

34:34

gotta believe in something. You've got

34:36

to connect yourself to the universe

34:38

in a greater, larger way. Or

34:40

you turn into these creatures. Look

34:42

how unhappy they all are. I'm

34:44

not sure if I agree that

34:46

that is kind of him advocating

34:48

for it. I think he is

34:51

at least recognizing that people do. Yeah,

34:53

maybe in moment of need,

34:55

right? Maybe it's not an

34:58

advocate for it, but it's

35:00

at least saying, like,

35:02

these people are getting

35:04

something out of this.

35:06

Right, sure, sure. That is

35:09

a net positive in their

35:11

wife. Well, it remains

35:13

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mintmobile.com. terms at mintmobile.com.

36:16

Before we get to the final plotline,

36:18

Sarah Mars, I want to let

36:20

people know. We got a lot

36:22

of people watching these videos on

36:24

YouTube at youtube.com/at Decoding TV. Our

36:26

statistics tell us that about 60%

36:28

of those people don't actually subscribe.

36:30

Hey, if you're watching this on

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YouTube, give us a subscribe. You'll get

36:35

more recaps and reviews like this one.

36:37

You can also listen to the podcast

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be found. Sarah Mars, let people know

36:43

where you can find more of your

36:46

work on the internet this week. You

36:48

can find me on Laney gossip.com or

36:50

the sub stack, the Squawk, and I

36:52

am intermittently on Letterboxed Instagram Blue Sky

36:55

All right, let's talk about the final

36:57

plot lines. This episode, Sarah Mars,

36:59

Rick, is in Bangkok, connecting

37:02

with an old friend played

37:04

by Sam Rockwell. Sam Rockwell

37:06

details a dissenting to overindulgence

37:08

in sexual exploration and

37:10

how he crashed and

37:12

burned and ended up sober

37:14

celibate and a Buddhist. He also gives

37:16

Rick a bag with what he asked

37:18

for, which we later learned contains

37:21

at least one gun. So, Sam Rockwell.

37:23

Obviously a brilliant actor

37:25

who is Leslie Bib's real-life

37:28

romantic partner. So maybe

37:30

he's like, hey, I'm gonna be

37:32

in town anyway. Do you guys want

37:35

to shoot something? I would really

37:37

like to know, like, did they do

37:39

this just because he was there

37:41

and available? But it's, he's one

37:44

of my favorite actors. Sam Rockwell

37:46

is one of those people who

37:48

shows up and whatever he's

37:50

in is immediately 20% better.

37:53

monologue that comes out of

37:55

nowhere like you're not expecting

37:57

it at all and it's really

38:00

intense. I mean, Walton Goggin's performance,

38:02

honestly, during it is also very

38:04

good because he's just like, you

38:06

can see all the synapses firing

38:08

of like, I need to be

38:11

a supportive friend because I because

38:13

literally he needs Sam Rockwell's assistance.

38:15

We later learn. But also, like, this is

38:18

really outside of the scope of what

38:20

I thought my friend would ever be

38:22

into. My favorite detail about it is

38:24

when they first sit down Sam Rockwell

38:26

orders Camamil tea, which is kind of

38:29

like The one thing that is like the

38:31

opposite of everything else like everyone in

38:33

the show is doing is like Camamille

38:35

tea You know, they're taking pills. They're

38:37

drinking stuff out of a seashell like

38:39

I just love that Camamille tea was

38:41

kind of the thing that tipped him

38:43

off that something was was different I

38:45

actually had a thought about that

38:48

and I know why that worked

38:50

There is a video essayist on

38:52

YouTube named Sloan Stowe and she

38:54

did an essay on The Mentalist

38:56

which was a CBS procedural that

38:58

ran for years and she specifically

39:00

mentions that the main character drinks

39:02

tea frequently and often and

39:05

he's enthusiastic about it like he goes

39:07

out of his way to acquire tea

39:09

and he drinks it from a dainty

39:12

little cup and She made a really

39:14

great point in her essay, which is

39:16

why I can never fully write off

39:18

YouTube, because there are some smart people

39:21

doing great work. Besides decoding TV, there's

39:23

like so many smart people

39:25

making great observations. But she made

39:27

this a great point about how in

39:29

the US, in North American culture. I'm

39:32

not going to say Western culture

39:34

at large, because in the UK,

39:36

in Europe, in Australia, which the

39:38

main character in the mentalist is

39:41

played by an Australian actor, drinking

39:43

tea is very normal. It's a lot

39:45

of people drink tea. I don't

39:47

think people really think about

39:49

drinking tea as much as in the

39:52

US. It is very feminine coated. Tea

39:54

parties are a thing that little girls

39:56

do. Women drink tea. You know,

39:58

men don't drink tea. rude tea,

40:00

men drink coffee. Coffee is

40:02

the drink of the working man,

40:05

you know. And so I, when,

40:07

when he, the minute he

40:09

said, Camamille tea, I was

40:11

like feminine coated and the red

40:13

flag went up. And you see

40:16

it in Walton Goggin's face. He's

40:18

immediately, like, latching on. What is

40:20

this about? Why are you drinking

40:22

tea? And the fact that he

40:24

didn't order, when you're sober, there's

40:26

so many other, he didn't order

40:28

water, he didn't order club soda,

40:30

he didn't order juice, tea. He

40:32

asked for hot tea, which is

40:34

feminine coded in American slash Hollywood

40:36

media. Yeah, yeah, yeah, great point. For

40:38

making that great observation about

40:40

how we're going to interpret

40:42

a character drinking drinking drinking

40:45

tea. Sarah, I want to ask what

40:47

you made of this monologue, but I'll

40:49

just put out what I made of

40:51

it, okay? Because people are going to

40:53

watch this episode, and they may or

40:56

may not listen to this podcast, and

40:58

they'll be wondering, what the hell was

41:00

that all about? And my interpretation

41:02

is, we see in many White Lotus

41:05

episodes, not even just in

41:07

this season, but just like

41:09

many White Lotus episodes like...

41:11

people, Americans, mostly white

41:14

people, partying away, like, like,

41:16

trying to, like, reach some form of

41:18

transcendence in their lives and

41:20

trying to, like, achieve some

41:22

experience that's beyond their current

41:24

level of understanding, you know,

41:26

whether it's taking drugs and

41:28

dancing at a club or

41:30

going, going canoeing or whatever,

41:32

sorry, not canoe, whatever the sport

41:35

was in season one, right, like,

41:37

whether they're out in the boats,

41:39

it was the outrigger canoeing, Yeah,

41:41

so yeah. And I think what Sam

41:43

Rockwell's character, like the

41:46

function of that character

41:48

is essentially, what is

41:50

the logical extreme version

41:52

of that? Like what is

41:54

the logical endpoint of like, hey,

41:57

I'm going to go out and I

41:59

have lots of money and I have

42:01

endless time and I'm just gonna

42:03

fuck everything like you know I'm

42:05

just gonna like and then and

42:07

at the end of the day

42:09

you know like putting aside for

42:11

for one moment the sort of

42:13

gender bending components of his his

42:15

speech I think like the main

42:17

takeaway I had was that there

42:19

is like ultimately at the end

42:21

of that no fulfillment like that

42:23

at the end you realize like

42:25

it's just hunger and nothing else

42:28

And that ultimately, like, it will

42:30

not satisfy. The things people do

42:32

to, like, fill their needs will

42:34

not ultimately satisfy. And he had

42:36

to, like, reconsider his entire worldview

42:38

in order to achieve any kind

42:40

of normal functionality. Again, I didn't

42:42

touch on the sort of transgender

42:44

sort of ladyboy components of it,

42:46

and that is a... rich area

42:48

to mine, but that was kind

42:50

of my initial take. Sarah Mars,

42:52

your reaction to Sarah Rockwell's monologue.

42:54

I thought it was amazing. And

42:56

again, I'm like, maybe go ahead

42:58

and engrave that guest actor drama.

43:00

Yeah, yeah, I was like, I

43:02

don't know, will the monologue be

43:04

too risque or will they go

43:06

ahead and give it to him?

43:09

Um, I. I actually don't really

43:11

think it's about the sexual exploration

43:13

so much. I'm afraid people are

43:15

going to get hung up on

43:17

those details. I'm afraid they're going

43:19

to get like... You said that.

43:21

What are you saying? Wait, is

43:23

he saying that he's transgender? Is

43:25

that what this is about? It's

43:27

like, I don't think so. And

43:29

I don't even really think that's

43:31

what he's saying. I don't even

43:33

really think that's what he's saying.

43:35

I just think he's saying that

43:37

that's what he's way to the

43:39

way to the answer. I think

43:41

it's very much about what you're

43:43

talking about about, he's a cautionary

43:45

tale, like I tried, I tried

43:47

to fill the void with all

43:50

this stuff and it didn't work,

43:52

and sort of to the larger

43:54

point, now he's connecting himself into

43:56

a world. view, a belief system

43:58

that gives him, he is one

44:00

piece of a larger puzzle, you

44:02

know, and the idea that I

44:04

have to be all things, that

44:06

I have to, I have to

44:08

be capable of generating all of

44:10

my fulfillment. It's like, no, it

44:12

can come from outside too. And

44:14

if you plug yourself into a

44:16

belief system that fulfils that for

44:18

you, it takes some of that

44:20

burden off of you. And I

44:22

think that's what he's expressing. But

44:24

I do think in terms of

44:26

like narrative function, especially because we

44:29

know Rick is on this quest.

44:31

He's trying to achieve something. I

44:33

think, and his friend is unnamed,

44:35

so I'm kind of just gonna

44:37

call him Sam Rockwell. I think

44:39

Sam Rockwell is sort of a

44:41

Virgil character, where he's guiding. his

44:43

friend through a descent. He describes

44:45

his own descent. I have been

44:47

on my journey and come out

44:49

the other side and now I'm

44:51

a tea drinking Buddhist celibate. And

44:53

now Rick is going on his

44:55

journey and Sam Rockwell is accompanying

44:57

him as a Virgil character, which

44:59

in Dante's Inferno, Virgil, the Roman

45:01

poet, guides Dante through the Nine

45:03

Circles of Hell. So I think

45:05

he's... We're literally going on Rick's

45:07

descent and he's got his guide

45:10

figure accompanying him. Right. And at

45:12

the end of his journey, he

45:14

wasn't like, and that was all

45:16

worth it, right? Yeah. He's like,

45:18

hey, I had to find my

45:20

fulfillment in something that is different

45:22

than what I originally thought it

45:24

would be. So anyway, those are

45:26

our thoughts. I don't want to

45:28

like minimize the gender components of

45:30

it. Because I do think that

45:32

is. significant like there's something about

45:34

that like I think is important

45:36

to kind of him wanting to

45:38

him feeling like he is not

45:40

who like his true form you

45:42

know in some way. But anyway,

45:44

if people have thoughts they want

45:46

to share with us on what

45:48

their reactions were, we'd love to

45:51

read them decoding TV@gmail.com. I mean,

45:53

a lot of that depends on

45:55

like how much more of this

45:57

character are we going to get?

45:59

Right. He doesn't have a name.

46:01

He seems to be serving a

46:03

specific function as part of Rick's

46:05

journey. So are we going to

46:07

get to go off and like

46:09

it really felt like the minute

46:11

he showed up? he was walking

46:13

in from a different season of

46:15

the white lotus like there's another

46:17

whole story happening and we're only

46:19

getting this little piece of it

46:21

agreed but i do think it's

46:23

i'm just worried people are gonna

46:25

get hung up on discussing like

46:27

gross he had gay sex and

46:29

thought about being a woman and

46:32

it's like no it's he was

46:34

seeking and nothing literally nothing he

46:36

tried at all he tasted the

46:38

rainbow and nothing fulfilled him and

46:40

nothing fulfilled him and that's the

46:42

whole point of this show Agreed.

46:44

Agreed. I will say that's, you're

46:46

not imitating our audience, Sarah Mars,

46:48

who are very intelligent and thoughtful.

46:50

So, but yes, I think that

46:52

reaction will be out there, and

46:54

that would be unfortunate. Okay, let's

46:56

talk about the rest of stuff

46:58

that happens this episode. Belinda tells

47:00

Fabian about her suspicions regarding Gary

47:02

Greg. Fabian blows her off. Not

47:04

cool. He dismisses her legitimate concerns

47:06

for her own safety, as well

47:08

as Gary Gregg being wanted for

47:11

questioning in Sicily as gossip. Clearly,

47:13

Fabian's not going to do anything.

47:15

So while Belinda is trying to

47:17

expand her skills and have a

47:19

nice romance with Poen Chai, Fabian's

47:21

out here, potentially, risking her life.

47:23

Anyway, it's kind of nice. The

47:25

Belinda, Porn Chai. Romance seems kind

47:27

of sweet. They're so cute. They're

47:29

so cute. They're cute. Yeah. And

47:31

he chases the lizard out of

47:33

her hotel room. Yes. Got a

47:35

little hero moment. There you go.

47:37

There you go. We haven't really

47:39

talked about, by the way, like,

47:41

how Guy Talk kind of sucks

47:43

in this episode. Like, he tries

47:45

to get the gun back, he

47:47

fails, like. He's not cut out

47:49

for this job. He's not doing

47:52

great. He's not doing great. He's

47:54

really I don't like he's just

47:56

he's too nice of a person.

47:58

He doesn't have the sort of

48:00

forceful personality like you meet his

48:02

boss and that guy seems 100%

48:04

capable of handling the gun and

48:06

stopping people at the gate and

48:08

all of that. Guy talked, I'm

48:10

like, is there something else you

48:12

can do with this resort? You're

48:14

too nice for this. Absolutely. That's

48:16

probably like the best job on

48:18

the island. Like it's, you know,

48:20

so I don't want him to

48:22

lose his job because I'm like,

48:24

probably one of the better job

48:26

to have. But at the same

48:28

time, I'm like, I don't think

48:30

you're cut out for it. You're

48:33

just not the personality. Any other

48:35

thoughts on the episode, Sarah Mars?

48:37

Well, you know, I think Fabian

48:39

sucks. I, like the fury, I

48:41

felt, I was so mad at

48:43

him for condescending the guy talk.

48:45

But I did think that moment,

48:47

again, illustrates the power structures that

48:49

these resorts create, where you have

48:51

a white European talking down to

48:53

the brown local. And it's like,

48:55

you know, probably you're standing on

48:57

land that should be his. Like

48:59

he... This is a bad dynamic

49:01

and all of these things are

49:03

kind of in play. But then

49:05

when he blows off Belinda's concerns,

49:07

specifically when he says we don't

49:09

gossip about guests, I'm like, that's

49:11

not gossip. Gossip is, did you

49:14

hear what happened to Tanya McQuadd?

49:16

They're saying she got murdered. That's

49:18

gossip. You know, I think he's

49:20

trying to maintain a good reputation

49:22

for his white lotus, right? And

49:24

he's doing so at the cost

49:26

of. His guest safety. The personal

49:28

safety of an employee and potentially

49:30

guest because when you go to

49:32

an I Unfortunately had a situation

49:34

where I had to go to

49:36

my boss and we had headshots

49:38

on our company website And I

49:40

said like I don't want to

49:42

totally get into it But I

49:44

need to have my headshot take

49:46

it's not safe for me to

49:48

have my picture on the internet

49:50

in and has been doing so

49:52

for 15 years, there aren't that

49:55

many pictures of me on the

49:57

internet. And it's because I had

49:59

to clean that up for a

50:01

situation in my real life. And

50:03

so when she went to him

50:05

and was like, I don't feel

50:07

safe, I think this person is

50:09

dangerous. He's wanted for questioning in

50:11

this very serious incident. Should we

50:13

call the authorities? That is the

50:15

moment. when you say the reputation

50:17

of the hotel doesn't matter because

50:19

the bigger picture is this person

50:21

could be dangerous. We are calling

50:23

the authorities. And the way that

50:25

Fabian is like, oh, we don't

50:27

talk about the guests and don't

50:29

gossip and I think you're just

50:31

blowing it out of proportion. I'm

50:34

like, if she dies because of

50:36

you, if she or her son,

50:38

he's coming. Her son is coming.

50:40

If something happens to Belinda or

50:42

her family or Pornchai because of

50:44

you, because you didn't do anything

50:46

in this moment, I'm going to

50:48

be so fucking furious. But I

50:50

think it's a, I understand you're

50:52

the general manager of this kind

50:54

of resort and you do have,

50:56

and I think we saw it

50:58

with Valentina specifically dealing with some

51:00

shady characters around her hotel and,

51:02

you know, things like that you

51:04

do want to maintain a sort

51:06

of professionalism. And you do want

51:08

to maintain the good reputation of

51:10

the hotel, but I do think

51:12

when someone comes to you and

51:15

says, this person is wanted for

51:17

questioning in connection to a very

51:19

serious crime, and I'm worried that

51:21

he knows that I know who

51:23

he is, because I think he's

51:25

dangerous. That is when you start

51:27

taking, you can take them quietly.

51:29

I'm not saying he needs to

51:31

pull the fire alarm and empty

51:33

the resort, but that is the

51:35

moment when you start, okay, let's,

51:37

let's figure out what the next

51:39

step. Act like everything is normal,

51:41

it will be fine, you're blowing

51:43

it out of proportion. How many

51:45

times have women been told that

51:47

in history and then something terrible

51:49

happens? So I just hate Fabian.

51:51

Indeed, indeed. All right. Pretty solid

51:53

episode, I have a feeling. more

51:56

sparks are going to fly in

51:58

the next few episodes. Should be

52:00

a fun time. Why don't you

52:02

follow along with us here on

52:04

decoding TV, on the YouTube channel,

52:06

subscribe, or subscribe to the podcast,

52:08

wherever you get your podcast. We'd

52:10

really appreciate it. But also, interested

52:12

to hear your thoughts at decoding

52:14

TV@gmail.com. You can always email us

52:16

there. She is Sarah Mars. I'm

52:18

David Chen. We'll see you next

52:20

week for another recap of The

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