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and welcome to Decoding TV,

1:36

a podcast about television.

1:38

I'm David Chen and my Audi is

1:40

a good podcaster. Joining me

1:43

today is Patrick Lepic. If I

1:45

wasn't any, I would simply crap

1:47

my pants every time I got on

1:49

that elevator and just see

1:51

what happens. Welcome to Decoding

1:54

TV today on today's episode

1:56

of the podcast. Gonna be

1:58

a shorter episode today. All we're

2:00

going to be doing is discussing

2:02

the season two premiere of Severance.

2:05

We made it. We made it. We did

2:07

it. As a culture, as a society. It's

2:09

been a long wait, but we did

2:11

it. We made it to season two

2:14

of severance, David. What a nice little

2:16

treat for us. Absolutely. I mean, we

2:18

survived the pandemic and then now we

2:20

are hopefully going to survive a Trump

2:23

administration. We'll see. But before I get

2:25

to that, I want to read a

2:27

couple of messages, you know, on last

2:30

week's episode of the podcast, we discussed

2:32

the pit, the new medical drama,

2:34

starring Noah Wiley. My wife really enjoyed

2:36

that podcast with us by the way. She

2:38

was very charmed by the fact that it

2:41

was your first medical drama Patrick. I suspect

2:43

that is not the case for your wife.

2:45

I don't know. I don't know. It's not

2:47

really her thing. Not really her thing. But

2:49

it's cool that hey this you know this

2:51

podcast can introduce new genres to you and

2:54

maybe make you realize hey there's stuff that

2:56

you would have loved all along Patrick Olympic.

2:59

Isaac S wrote in to us at

3:01

decoding tv.com, excellent review of the pit,

3:03

one standout aspect is the show's remarkable

3:06

realism. My wife, who has over 20

3:08

years of experience working in hospital, says,

3:10

this is the most accurate portrayal of

3:12

real-life hospital dynamics she's ever seen in

3:15

a TV show. ER had this as

3:17

well, but the pit nails a landing

3:19

better in this aspect, end quote. We

3:21

also got this email from Dr. K.

3:24

I'll call it. I recently listened to

3:26

the episode reviewing the pit. I'm a

3:28

practicing ER physician and have a degree

3:30

in film, continue film theory and criticism

3:32

as a hobby. I've watched most medical

3:35

shows out there and wanted to shed

3:37

some light on your comments and give

3:39

you some insight into my perspective. Me

3:41

and the medical community in general often

3:44

find it hard to watch medical shows

3:46

due to how unrealistic, inaccurate, and dramatized

3:48

they are. That being said, the pit

3:50

is hands down the most realistic

3:52

representation of emergency medicine

3:54

I've ever seen. In an eight-hour shift I often

3:56

see 25 to 35 patients often managing 8 to

3:59

12 at education. the rate at which new

4:01

patients were presented on the show

4:03

was actually very realistic. It's nonstop

4:05

with never ending interruptions and no

4:07

breaks. We frequently have many

4:09

hour-long wait times in the waiting room

4:11

while EMS continually roll in sick undifferentiated

4:14

patients and we shuffle beds to hallways

4:16

frequently. Half my job is medicine. The

4:18

other half is problem solver and navigating

4:20

murky moral and legal issues. For example,

4:23

intubating a dying old man against his

4:25

wishes. Yes, the power of attorney can

4:27

legally overturn or attempting to keep the

4:29

18 year old with a death list

4:31

at the hospital. Many of the interactions

4:34

with the frequent flyer alcoholics or banter

4:36

between residents is spot on to the

4:38

culture of medicine. The humor and cynicism

4:40

and compassion I felt were accurately portrayed.

4:42

I wanted to note the flashback to

4:45

COVID hit me like a ton of

4:47

bricks and gave me a very visceral

4:49

reaction. I agree with your comments. No

4:51

one ever addressed what we as a

4:53

society and specifically ER doctors went through

4:55

and how unbelievably traumatic that was for

4:57

my colleagues and I and millions today

4:59

still have mistrust in the medical community

5:01

and you use words like hoax regularly.

5:04

The doctor then talks about a scene

5:06

in episode 2 that I'm not going

5:08

to like really give away. But anyway,

5:10

he concludes by saying, I could talk

5:13

for hours in other cases and characters

5:15

in the show what they mean to

5:17

me. But I wanted to let you

5:19

know, I enjoyed hearing your review and

5:21

agree with a lot of what you

5:23

said. Keep up all the great

5:26

work you have been doing. Your

5:28

podcast helped me get through medical

5:30

training. Air goes by extension. Yes.

5:33

We're saving less. Wow. That's kind

5:35

of the conclusion. Podcasters out here

5:38

doing the real work. There was

5:40

one thing that I didn't

5:42

mention during our conversation about

5:44

the pit that I kind

5:47

of just wanted to call out,

5:49

which is, uh, there is a scene in

5:51

the first two episodes where there

5:53

is a mom that just basically

5:56

starts spouting conspiracy

5:58

theories, uh, like her... her son has been

6:00

afflicted with something when I'm not going to

6:02

go into the spoiler, but like, she just

6:04

starts spouting conspiracy theories and, and like, what

6:07

if this is damaged by some permanently? What

6:09

if this, you know, and she's just kind

6:11

of like, and then the doctor's like, well,

6:13

there's no evidence at any of that's true,

6:15

you know, and this happened the same

6:17

week that Mark Zuckerberg announced that on

6:19

meta's platforms, they're basically going to go

6:21

to stop fact checking and they're removing

6:23

a bunch of the content moderation of

6:25

the content moderation that they're, That scene

6:27

in the pit where the mom

6:30

is spouting off all these conspiracy

6:32

theories is going to happen more

6:34

often now. And that may be

6:36

sad. So prescient. I want to

6:38

say. I have to imagine if

6:41

our listener that wrote in Dr.

6:43

Kay, I would be fascinated to

6:45

hear, even if not in specifics,

6:48

like I imagine there's a

6:50

fine line that you were

6:52

walking constantly between like. Look

6:54

the internet allows people to do all

6:57

sorts of self-diagnosing and like sure that

6:59

woman Spotted conspiracy theories I'm sure that

7:01

happens all the time people also come

7:03

in with all sorts of preconceived notions

7:06

about how they should be treated or

7:08

like what is Right to them and

7:10

what's wrong with them and I have

7:12

to imagine in a It started as web

7:14

MD and now I would say like read

7:17

it and like just like a much more

7:19

complicated era of self-diagnosis. Yeah I wonder if

7:21

the show will taught like get into the more

7:23

like touch in it at all it's just

7:25

like you there's just so much you know kind

7:27

of a sort of a rich tapestry of

7:30

stories they could be about how people think

7:32

they understand themselves and yet come

7:34

in and then have to be told

7:36

by a professional actually X Y and

7:38

Z so. Well, I just wanted to eat

7:41

crow a little bit because I think I

7:43

commented about how unrealistic was that doctors would

7:45

be handling this many cases But it turns

7:47

out nope, it's just that doctors are extremely

7:50

overworked and underpaid in real life as well

7:52

So that was my bad my bad. All

7:54

right. Thank you so much for the messages

7:56

for writing into us decoding TV

7:58

gima.com or commenting decoding tv.com.

8:01

I do want to mention if

8:03

you want to support this podcast

8:05

and what we're doing here on

8:07

decoding TV, consider becoming a paid

8:10

subscriber, get ad-free episodes and occasional

8:12

bonus episodes. Thanks to everyone

8:14

at decoding tv.com who makes

8:16

this podcast possible. Patrick Klepik,

8:18

let's get to it. The thing we've

8:20

been waiting for three years for, our conversation

8:23

about severance season two premiere,

8:25

let's go. I

8:27

know you're still weighing

8:30

whether to return to

8:32

lumen. With a mark

8:34

I've come to know,

8:36

is happy? Hello, is anyone

8:39

there? Is the board on?

8:42

It's Mark, us from

8:44

that... What you all

8:46

did was one of

8:48

the most painful moments

8:50

in the history

8:52

of this company.

8:54

What the hell. What the

8:56

hell. The four of you have become

8:59

known as the face of Severance Reform.

9:01

Okay, so we're not in trouble? I

9:03

don't think so. Milchik said we're famous.

9:05

All of us equally are one of

9:08

us is like the star. Welcome to

9:10

Decoding TV's coverage of Severance

9:12

Season 2. If you're just tuning

9:15

in for the first time, by the

9:17

way, you can find this podcast

9:19

wherever you're podcast. We are going

9:21

to be covering Severance Season 2

9:23

every week talking about the mysteries.

9:25

And if you're watching this on

9:27

YouTube, give us a subscribe. Won't

9:30

you at youtube.com/at Decoding TV? I'm

9:32

David Chen here with Patrick Clepic.

9:34

Patrick, we just talked on last

9:36

week's podcast episode about severance, or

9:38

this week's podcast episode about severance

9:41

season one finale. Obviously, we're super psyched

9:43

about the severance season two premiere. Now

9:45

that we have seen it. What did you think

9:47

of the premiere? Are you happy to be back

9:49

in the world of lumen industries? I am happy

9:52

to be back. Well, I'm not

9:54

on the hands of Lumen. They

9:56

seem like those hands are a

9:58

little cold and calculated, but... I am

10:00

I'm happy to be back in the

10:02

world of severance and I think you know

10:04

in our discussion about the season finale

10:06

of season one one of

10:08

the things I was really curious

10:10

about was what are the

10:12

questions that season two

10:15

what's it gonna be asking is

10:17

interested in the mystery of lumen

10:19

the lore of this world

10:21

the world -building that naturally happens

10:23

in mystery box shows as they

10:25

enter multi -season arcs how is it

10:27

going to balance that against what I found

10:29

even those interesting part of season one

10:31

which is what does it mean to be

10:33

these people what does that reflect how our

10:36

own and you know outside of

10:38

severance like our relationship with work and

10:40

I'm happy to report at least in

10:42

this first episode hot damn

10:44

it's asking all the right questions

10:46

and it's asking even more interesting

10:48

ones that I hadn't really considered and

10:51

I cannot wait to see where this

10:53

season goes I feel large

10:55

the same way it's so

10:57

good to be watching the show

10:59

again big fan of the

11:01

show episode was solid I did have

11:03

one major disappointment with

11:06

the episode but we

11:08

will talk about that momentarily

11:10

but overall glad the show is

11:12

back and I would agree with you

11:14

that the show doesn't seem to be

11:16

veering off and wildly and like taking

11:18

a different approach to season one right

11:20

it's kind of like still focused on

11:22

the same questions still focused it's very

11:24

much a character -driven drama /with mystery

11:27

you know with mystery box

11:29

elements and so yeah

11:31

huge fan of severance glad it's back

11:33

can't wait to watch the rest

11:35

of season let's talk about the stuff that happens this

11:37

episode all right mark

11:39

s awakens

11:41

and he's

11:43

back on the severed floor

11:45

and there's this incredible sequence

11:47

where he runs around underground

11:49

at work trying to find

11:51

his way it lasts for

11:54

minutes and it's

11:57

incredible like I don't even

11:59

know how this is obviously I

12:01

think some combination of

12:03

practical and CG, but

12:05

like the camera is

12:07

basically making impossible movements,

12:09

right? It's appearing or

12:11

moving towards locations that

12:13

should be impossible for the

12:15

camera to do. There is a style of

12:18

shooting using cameras that are

12:20

called like motion control cameras

12:22

where like you can make

12:25

extremely precise movements of

12:27

the camera. The YouTube or MK

12:29

PhD has used this camera sometimes where

12:31

it's like, it's basically like, think of

12:33

it like a camera that's on a

12:36

robot arm, right? It can replicate these

12:38

extremely precise movements. It felt like that

12:40

style of cinematography, where it's like these

12:43

incredibly precise movements by a robot, except

12:45

it'd be physically impossible for a robot

12:47

to actually do the movements. So I

12:49

thought that was just such a striking

12:51

visual and a bold way to open

12:53

the season. Patrick Lepic any thoughts.

12:56

It's disorienting, right? Like, we've watched

12:58

this first season, we know these,

13:00

we think we know these cubicles,

13:02

we think we know the layout

13:04

of this place, as much as

13:06

we can, like, grasp it together,

13:08

and like the opening shots of

13:10

this show, the sequences Mark

13:12

runs through the hallways, I

13:14

think is the show regrounding

13:16

with you with, you don't really

13:18

know what's happening here, these

13:21

characters are lost, you're lost,

13:23

and... We're not even sure what

13:25

it means to be found

13:27

or what's at the end

13:29

of this hallway. I think

13:31

it the longer that scene

13:33

goes on like the more

13:35

interesting it gets and I

13:37

think it's a it's for

13:39

a For an episode of

13:41

television that doesn't spend a

13:43

lot of time being like

13:46

what happened last season?

13:48

Let's catch you up last season, which

13:50

is a flight of confusion and sadness

13:52

and excitement, just a ton of emotions

13:55

and you don't know what to do

13:57

with it except maybe sprint down a

13:59

hall. way and try and tell a friend.

14:02

The thing that really

14:04

messed me up is contemplating what Mark's

14:07

lived experience was because like I

14:09

think we understand that this is the

14:11

first time any Mark has awakened

14:13

since the events of last season, right?

14:15

Yeah. And imagine he's like at

14:17

this party, you know, he's

14:19

meeting people and then he screams out

14:21

she's alive and then boom, the next

14:23

thing he knows he's back in the

14:26

elevator. Like that would be so like

14:29

because his whole life has been waking up

14:31

and going to sleep in the elevator,

14:33

right? So, it's like that'd be such a

14:35

trip to be somewhere else and then be

14:37

transported into the elevator. I think that would be

14:40

like a huge disorienting thing that the show

14:42

really brings to life. So anyway, Mark

14:45

is back

14:47

where he started. He is back

14:49

at Lumen. His

14:52

mission

14:55

to

14:57

get some changes. The wellness

14:59

center at Lumen is gone.

15:01

Like there's no evidence that it

15:03

ever existed. It's vanished. And

15:05

therefore, Miss Casey is gone.

15:08

He finds his workspace and

15:10

sees that he has an entirely new set of colleagues.

15:13

For him, it's only been moments after

15:15

the events of the season one finale.

15:17

But we learn in reality, it's actually

15:19

been five months. Mr.

15:22

Milchick has replaced Miss Gobelle as the manager

15:24

of the severed floor. And he also has

15:26

a new secretary, Miss Wong, who appears to

15:28

be a teenager. We

15:30

learn what happened in the interceding

15:32

five months after the events of

15:34

last season. The four of them

15:37

apparently became super famous. And

15:39

their actions led to a raft of

15:41

improvements and reforms at Lumen to

15:43

make severance more humane. So clearly, Mark's

15:46

Audi decided it was still worth returning back to

15:48

work at Lumen, but none of the rest

15:50

of the crew wanted to come back. This

15:53

leads to Mark as sabotaging one of Milchick's

15:55

activities in an attempt to talk to

15:57

the board and beg for the rest of

15:59

his team. back, Milchic sends him out

16:01

of the workplace and when he

16:04

reawakens he reunites with the

16:06

other characters from last season. So

16:08

they're showing a video about

16:10

the macrodat uprising which dramatizes

16:13

the events of last season and

16:15

what happened with the season finale

16:17

and all the bountiest reforms like

16:20

new snacks that they have. Hey

16:22

was that voiced by Keanu Reeves? I

16:24

think so, that's what I felt

16:26

like, sounded like. I'm watching it

16:28

and I paused the episode and

16:30

turned to my wife and was

16:32

like, listen to that, hold on,

16:34

we're going to, listen to that voice

16:37

again. And then she's like,

16:39

that shadow the hedgehog,

16:41

like, no, that's counter-reaves.

16:43

I think that's counter-reaves,

16:45

it sounded like him. So the video

16:48

is pretty funny, you know,

16:50

kind of this like... Claymation,

16:52

animation style, and... Very cool.

16:54

Yeah, I mean, the show

16:57

looks expensive, Patrick Leppick. You

16:59

know, the show looks like

17:01

they spent several hundred

17:03

million dollars on it, which

17:05

they did. Anyway, then each of

17:07

them is given an option

17:10

as about whether or not

17:12

to stay. And they also

17:14

cuddle together and share what

17:16

happened while they were on the outside.

17:18

And during the course of

17:20

this, about what happened when

17:23

they're on the outside. And let's

17:25

pause here. First of all, she

17:27

says, hey, I was watching

17:29

a nature documentary in my

17:32

lonely apartment and I found

17:34

a gardener outside, tried to

17:36

explain the situation to

17:38

him, and it didn't work.

17:40

And a night gardener? John

17:42

Taturo's character, he says, a

17:45

night gardener? Like, that's the

17:47

best shitty story you could

17:49

come up with? That is an

17:51

extremely shoddy story that you told.

17:53

My first reaction when I watched

17:56

this was, that is not Helly

17:58

R. That is Selena Egan. and

18:00

she is her Audi. Oh.

18:02

Yeah, you just thought she was

18:04

lying, Patrick Clubback. I could tell

18:06

you just thought she was lying,

18:08

right? Well, I mean, it's an

18:11

understandable moment for the character. Your conclusion

18:13

was she's lying for some reason, right?

18:15

Well, if what you just proposed happens

18:17

to the show, that lines up like,

18:19

that would make a lot of sense

18:21

that the show could do the kind

18:23

of mind -swapping in the two places.

18:25

So that is certainly plausible. I also

18:27

think it's plausible that for five,

18:30

like the show implants in you the idea like

18:32

five months, what a long time, a lot of

18:34

time to think. Well, they didn't have time to,

18:36

like, that's not how it works for them. Right.

18:39

It's just a light switch. Like it's

18:41

as though they went into a coma.

18:43

And so she just had one of

18:45

the most dramatic, dramatic moments of

18:48

her life as this innie

18:50

and so much as like

18:52

how one would define life

18:54

for these people. And it is

18:57

like immediately like reunited with her

18:59

friends after the high of that.

19:01

And then has had no time

19:03

to really process who she

19:05

is in the outside world.

19:07

Wow. You

19:09

took a very, so

19:11

that's extremely, you know,

19:13

she's a babe in the woods. Like,

19:15

would you want to say, hey, guys?

19:18

So group sash, like, so like you

19:20

got to go see like your family

19:22

and like you saw like a love

19:24

that's not going to happen. Like, and

19:27

we don't even get to one of the characters

19:29

to explain what, you know, like he was

19:31

going through when he was back here, like letting

19:33

them all go out. So

19:35

I'm, I'm Dr. Evil. Like it's bad. Whoops.

19:37

Like we're all here. You know mean?

19:39

I think it's plausible and

19:42

understandable that one would not

19:44

want to admit even

19:46

if she's not this, the innie

19:48

is not culpable for the actions

19:50

of the Audi. Like if

19:52

you found out, you were like, well,

19:55

I'm the horrible doctor of running this

19:57

place. Like, I don't know that I'd be

19:59

rushing. to tell all my friends that

20:02

like that's who I am. Yeah,

20:04

okay, I mean, that's a fair

20:06

point, Patrick Clepick. I think I

20:08

don't think that's why she lied.

20:10

I think there's one of two

20:13

reasons, right? Either one, she is

20:15

Helena Egan, the Audi, and they

20:17

figured out a way to disable

20:19

severance for her, or other stuff

20:21

happened during that five months, right?

20:24

Like, Helli are... has lived more

20:26

time because the helly are that

20:28

we saw moments ago in her

20:30

mind has just been telling off

20:32

all the lumen people they torture

20:34

us in there and then she

20:37

got tackled and that was what

20:39

happened with helly are right so

20:41

then she awakens in the elevator

20:43

and she's lying about it that

20:45

makes no sense so something had

20:48

to happen between when she was

20:50

at the party the gala or

20:52

whatever and when she awakened for

20:54

helly are to decide that she's

20:56

gonna lie in my opinion. So

20:59

it's one of those two things.

21:01

Either Helliara has lived a whole

21:03

separate life in the five months,

21:05

or that's not Helliara. That's a

21:07

lady. So I would bet money

21:10

that it's one of those two

21:12

options, and we'll find out which

21:14

one of us is true. If

21:16

Patrick is right, and she just

21:18

was a little modest about being...

21:21

I'm not disputing your theory. I

21:23

just, I don't think it's implausible

21:25

that one would be embarrassed. It's

21:27

like, like, ah. I am a

21:29

terrible person like I fives everybody

21:32

like I suck I suck I'm

21:34

the reason we're here I think

21:36

it's reasonable to like not want

21:38

to talk about that's fair but

21:40

I think I think your your

21:42

interpretation also would be a fun

21:45

that's a fun wrinkle for the

21:47

show that absolutely yeah are you

21:49

watching helly are you watching and

21:51

especially given some of the ideas

21:53

introduced some of the expansions the

21:56

idea of interactions between the two

21:58

worlds like seems to be an

22:00

idea that season two is going

22:02

to start playing with. So that would

22:04

be a very natural extension of that.

22:07

So I think you could be on

22:09

to something. All right. So at this point,

22:11

all the characters need to kind of

22:13

go through their own individual journeys of

22:15

whether or not to stay, right? They

22:18

are given the option of leaving, right?

22:20

They are given the option of leaving

22:22

the option of leaving. the severed floor

22:24

means that they're basically going to die

22:26

like this version of them will die.

22:28

So they need to decide if they

22:31

would prefer to die or if they prefer

22:33

to stick around because they know that

22:35

on some level their outies are probably

22:37

okay with them sticking around. So

22:39

each of the characters kind of goes

22:41

through the little journey. Dylan is cool

22:43

with staying certainly and Dylan and Irving

22:46

shares a moment where Dylan begs Irving

22:48

to stay. Irving tells Dylan about

22:50

the drawing you saw, the black hallway with

22:52

an arrow pointing down, it's not the break

22:55

room. And they kind of embrace, and they

22:57

have this really close moment. There was

22:59

this line, Patrick Clupak, that I didn't

23:01

understand, and I didn't know if you

23:03

had anything to say about it, where

23:06

Dylan says, I'm your favorite perk. And

23:08

then Irving says, don't bring them into

23:10

this, end quote. I didn't understand

23:12

what that was about. Did you

23:14

have any interpretation? of our oppressor.

23:16

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, actually.

23:18

They use the term park. Yeah,

23:20

yeah. Like, great interpretation. Yeah, we're

23:22

friends. Yeah, we mean something to

23:24

each other. I don't use their

23:26

language. Yeah, the language of Lumen

23:29

into this. It's kind of like

23:31

when I start talking in my

23:33

company's leadership principles when I'm at

23:36

home with, with my wife, you

23:38

know, it's not welcomed. Halalar and

23:40

Mark have a conversation about whether

23:42

they're going to stay in. Halalar

23:45

says, hey, you know, I'm going

23:47

to stay because I want to

23:49

help you figure out what happened

23:52

to Miss Casey. You know, that's

23:54

why Halalar is so generous

23:56

in deciding to stick around.

23:58

And so eventually... And then

24:00

Milchick introduces Dylan to this

24:02

concept of something called an

24:04

Audi family visitation suite. One

24:06

of the big plot lines

24:08

of season one was Dylan

24:10

has children. And he learned that

24:12

he has children during an activation

24:15

of the overtime contingency.

24:17

And it's really upsetting to Dylan

24:19

that he doesn't know his children,

24:21

he doesn't know his family, and

24:23

he wants to know them. And

24:25

so this Audi family visitation suite.

24:27

theoretically will give him

24:30

the ability to see his outies

24:32

family and that's something that

24:34

Dylan would find meaningful. Did you

24:36

read some of the, I need to

24:38

like, I'm sure this will be

24:40

studied in a lost-esque fashion, like

24:43

some of the language on that

24:45

architecture document is, like,

24:47

there's almost like, there's

24:49

something called the memory wall, like

24:51

over to the right where they're

24:54

like chairs, almost like, You know, like

24:56

you would observe, like, you know,

24:58

children playing or like it's, but the,

25:00

like calling it the memory wall is

25:02

a really, hmm, like things are

25:05

never as they seem here at

25:07

Lumen, especially as they're playing with

25:09

our perceptions of reality and memory

25:11

and sense of self, but memory

25:13

walls sure suggest to me it's

25:15

not going to be as simple as

25:18

you just get to like have a

25:20

relationship with your, with your children. My

25:22

interpretation of memory wall was. It's where

25:25

we're going to hang memories. Like we're

25:27

going to, you can take pictures and

25:29

put them on the wall or the

25:31

people can put pictures there and you

25:34

can see them. You know, that was

25:36

kind of my interpretation memory wall. But

25:38

anyway, Milkchick makes Dylan promise to

25:40

not tell the rest of the crew about

25:43

the family visitation suite because none

25:45

of them have half families. They're

25:47

all single. They're all single. They

25:50

don't have anyone who want to

25:52

visit them. Certainly not Helena Egan.

25:54

Certainly not. Certainly not

25:56

Mark with a sister and

25:58

a niece, you know? So,

26:02

yeah, a lot of deception

26:04

is still occurring at Lumen. Some

26:09

things you wouldn't mind being stuck with. Like a huge

26:11

inheritance. But a phone that has to be plugged in just right so it charges

26:13

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27:11

the episode ends

27:13

with the status

27:15

quo essentially being restored

27:17

from the first season. They're

27:19

all back and working

27:22

for Mark and Lumen and everyone's

27:24

happy again, I guess, in their situation

27:26

or they are at peace with

27:28

the idea that they're there. And

27:32

cool episode, some great moments in

27:34

the episode. In particular, the

27:36

Irving subplot was

27:38

actually moving in season

27:40

one, but it was really

27:43

packed in a emotional wall at this episode

27:45

when Irving says, you know, that's not our world

27:47

out there. That's something he said, you know, like,

27:49

it's not our world out there. Like, because he goes

27:51

to see Bert and sees that Bert is

27:53

already happily married in the outside world, right? And

27:55

he's like, that's not our, it's not for

27:57

me. And he was happier when he didn't know

27:59

about the world. world and Irving is somebody

28:01

who always struggled to like, he was

28:04

always like a goody two shoes on the

28:06

inside and you can tell this whole

28:08

thing has been very disrupted to his

28:10

life. But Patrick Clippick, I was

28:12

pretty disappointed that we didn't

28:14

see the aftermath of what happened last

28:16

season, right? I was pretty disappointed

28:18

we didn't see anything from those

28:20

five months like I'm really curious.

28:23

Let me just put it this

28:25

way. I have a healthy skepticism.

28:27

that things have happened in the way

28:29

that Milchik said they did. Well, yes.

28:31

The trailer that we listen to broadly

28:33

covers the first episode, but there is

28:35

a line in there where Milchak appears

28:38

to be talking to Audi Mark to convince

28:40

them to come back to Lumen. Like,

28:42

I promise you that Anymark is very

28:44

happy, I think it's something along the

28:47

lines that you heard. So I, yes,

28:49

like, I'm suspicious of any of the

28:51

information that's been presented, like, like, the

28:54

reforms that they're famous, that they're

28:56

famous. I, I, for what reason

28:58

do you have to believe any of

29:00

this information that is being presented

29:03

to you? How much of the

29:05

outside world knows anything or believes

29:07

anything that happened? Who knows? Like, I

29:09

think you are right to be, like, this

29:12

show is about sense of self

29:14

perception of self perception, like

29:16

understanding of self worth and

29:19

how we interpret that. Thus,

29:21

whatever lumen tells you what

29:23

you should think, believe and

29:25

feel. You should probably set

29:27

that to the side with

29:29

a healthy dose of skepticism.

29:31

And I suspect, like, you're

29:33

right, that that five months

29:35

was chosen for a reason.

29:37

That's a lengthy amount of

29:39

time for this show to fill

29:41

in a lot of important gaps

29:43

that I suspect will be

29:46

filled in as the show progresses.

29:48

I agree. And it's funny, you

29:50

pointing out the notion that

29:52

Helli could actually be. like

29:54

a reverse like sort of an agent

29:56

like implanted like that didn't occur to

29:58

me watching the show But now that

30:00

you've said it, I was like,

30:03

damn, that seems pretty likely. Now

30:05

I hope that isn't like a

30:07

episode seven reveal. Like if something

30:09

like that's going to happen, I

30:11

hope that is dispensed of or

30:13

like get into the audience as

30:15

information they know sooner rather

30:17

than later. But, uh, well, I think

30:19

it's meant. Here's the thing. Here's the

30:22

thing Patrick is I don't think we've

30:24

seen Helli lie like that in the

30:26

show before. Right, like everything

30:28

we've seen of Helli. She's an

30:30

open book. You kind of, you kind of

30:32

get, it's what it says on the tin.

30:35

Like, you get, you know what I'm saying?

30:37

Like, she has her opposite, plus as a

30:39

minus, but like, she, I think she's always

30:41

been like an earnest person and she's only

30:44

ever been deceptive when she's trying

30:46

to, she's never been like deceptive

30:48

with that crew of people. And so

30:50

to watch her like lie in cold

30:52

blood like that is just, it was

30:54

actually kind of chilling. It's like,

30:56

it was actually kind of chilling.

30:58

you know those are the two options

31:00

or I guess option C is it

31:03

is her and she's lying because she

31:05

has to like you know what happened

31:07

in those five months like you

31:09

could imagine you could imagine that

31:11

she's being compelled yeah like because

31:13

like the I guess the evidence

31:15

I'd put in favor of that

31:18

version of the character is when

31:20

they're in the hallway talking about

31:22

what they should do next like

31:24

should they stay should they go

31:26

like Mark's desire to his complicated

31:28

feelings about this person

31:30

who is quote his wife the way

31:32

helly snaps into like you don't

31:35

owe him jack shit right like you

31:37

don't know him anything that's not

31:39

you that's the helly that's a

31:41

very convincing helly our performance that's

31:44

right that's right like and could

31:46

allain like could the outy do

31:48

that mmm yeah good question I

31:51

don't know that the the outy

31:53

could say with that emotional conviction

31:55

yeah like after this whole infrastructure.

31:57

Like, that, like, so that leans

31:59

me. towards that I think both things

32:02

can be true. She's lying. It's

32:04

still her, but she's being

32:06

compelled to lie for likely

32:09

understandable reasons. But we shall see

32:11

that adds an interesting wrinkle to

32:13

where all this could go. And

32:15

one thing we didn't even get

32:17

into was, it seems like we're gonna

32:20

get kind of an arc with

32:22

Milchek this season. Like that is

32:24

the, there were elements of the

32:26

bureaucracy. Like what does it mean

32:29

to be a manager? within lumen,

32:31

his obsession over getting his

32:33

name changed on the monitor

32:36

to like to reflect that

32:38

he's the one in charge now,

32:40

I think if this show is

32:42

like broadly about like like

32:44

a study of work, like

32:46

our relationship with work

32:49

and identity and progress

32:51

and admiration and being

32:53

like seen, like as being

32:56

good at something like That

32:58

is true of like middle managers as

33:00

well. And like what does it mean? Like

33:02

I, I, I, like, I don't think Milcheck

33:05

is, he's a bad guy in season one,

33:07

but like it would not shock me to

33:09

get to the end of season two and

33:11

it's like, wow, like that guy, he's gotten

33:13

like, his actual story is like

33:16

tragic and upsetting. And I, I

33:18

could, I'm interested to see if

33:20

they have an exploration of like.

33:22

that layer of the bureaucracy

33:24

that exists within the severed

33:27

floor, because the severed floor

33:29

itself has its own office

33:31

politics that are beyond just

33:33

like what Lumen deems the experiment

33:37

to be, or however you

33:39

want to characterize what's happening

33:41

on that floor. Yeah. Yeah. I love

33:43

that scene, where he is trying to

33:45

get the name on the monitor change,

33:48

because I think it just shows you

33:50

that everyone. who works in an

33:52

office environment is suffering some kind of indignity

33:54

right that they're like you think your boss

33:56

has it better off than you but it's

33:58

like nope they're just in a different

34:00

level of being

34:02

disrespected than you

34:04

are. Sitting in

34:06

an empty office with

34:09

what appears nothing to

34:11

do, like, by all

34:13

accounts, like, he's also

34:15

experienced five months,

34:18

hasn't even unpacked

34:20

the boxes. What's in

34:22

the boxes? Who could say?

34:25

And he can't even

34:27

get that. So

34:30

yeah, I agree that whether we get more

34:32

of Milchic's character is going to

34:34

be pretty interesting. I think one

34:36

of the things that season one

34:39

taught us is don't believe anything that

34:41

Lumen says. So like we will

34:43

refer to statements that Milchic has

34:46

made, but like it doesn't mean

34:48

we believe everything that he's saying.

34:50

One of the things that he has

34:52

said is what was happening with

34:54

Miss Cobel. Like why was Miss

34:57

Cobel following... Mark S around

34:59

on the outside of the

35:01

inside. He claims it's because

35:03

she became obsessed with him

35:05

and wanted to seduce him

35:08

on the outside and inside

35:10

with the any and the

35:12

outy form basically a separate

35:14

ruffle. Which is a pretty

35:16

messed up. Yeah, gross concept.

35:19

Don't like it. Pretty messed

35:21

up. Zap that one from

35:23

my brain. I guess the idea

35:25

there is you could be with

35:27

someone. But like they'd be

35:29

two separate people. Do you know what

35:32

I'm saying? Like, is it cheating? Who could

35:34

say? Because it's them, right? Yeah, is

35:36

that cheating? Open, open, I ask you

35:38

the question Patrick, is it cheating?

35:40

If you're, if you're with another

35:43

person? That seems like, that's the,

35:45

it's on the bucket of like

35:47

emotional cheating. If you're like, you're

35:50

certain definitions, but probably, like,

35:52

if you have to ask the question,

35:54

David, you probably already know

35:56

the answer. And another question

35:58

I suspect. the show will

36:01

revisit. I don't think, I think

36:03

it's just laying breadcrumbs

36:05

that the show is going to

36:08

explore further, which is like, the

36:10

show gives everyone an out. Like

36:12

now maybe Lumen's lying, right? Maybe

36:15

they're lying, but like, let's take

36:17

it at face value that they

36:19

could just walk out the door and

36:21

essentially end their lives.

36:23

They escape this existence, but

36:25

their existence ends. Sure,

36:28

maybe there's a different resolution to

36:30

this show where, uh... I don't know,

36:33

if like, clones do exist, maybe you

36:35

can go, you know, another, like, I

36:37

don't know, like, it's within the realm

36:39

of possibility that there's a, like,

36:42

happy resolution, but, like, much of the

36:44

show seems like, escape is still

36:46

tragedy for these characters. And I

36:48

suspect if in the first episode

36:50

we're already introducing that concept of,

36:53

like, like, what does success mean?

36:55

If we destroy Lumen. If we

36:57

destroy Lumen. We just destroy

36:59

ourselves and like the show

37:01

spends so much time for us to

37:04

see them as full people like they

37:06

are the any in the out even like

37:08

they are their own Their own people they

37:10

are not just the people on the

37:12

outside You know cut in half and

37:14

I expect the show to continue

37:17

exploring that in really

37:19

interesting ways if it's going to

37:21

bring that up as soon as the

37:23

first episode Can I think

37:25

of back to the Thrupple concept

37:27

for a second? Sure, please. There's

37:30

an article in New York Times called

37:32

She is in Love with ChatGPT. It's

37:34

about a 20-year-old woman falling in love

37:36

with her AI chatbot. And there's

37:38

questions coming up about whether or

37:40

not it's cheating or not if

37:42

she's in a relationship and she's

37:44

also in love with AI. But

37:46

Marianne Brandon, a sex therapist in the

37:48

article, is quoted as saying the following.

37:51

What are relationships for all of us?

37:53

They're just neurotransmitters being released in our

37:55

brain. I have those neurotransmitters with my

37:57

cat. Some people have them with God.

38:00

It's going to be happening with a chatbot. We

38:02

can say it's not a real human relationship. It's

38:04

not reciprocal, but those neurotransmitters are really the only

38:06

thing that matters in my mind, end quote. Anyway,

38:08

I just thought that was kind of chilling because it's

38:11

basically saying, like a lot of people would laugh at

38:13

this. They would say, oh, well, that's not a real

38:15

thing. You're falling in love with a machine. It doesn't

38:17

make any, you know, it doesn't make, it's not sentient.

38:19

It's not a real thing. And

38:21

this woman, Marianne Brandon is saying,

38:23

actually, if

38:25

it does all the same things

38:27

that a real relationship does,

38:29

isn't it, in fact, real? I

38:32

don't think it's directly related with

38:34

what we're talking about here in

38:36

the separate show, but it's definitely

38:38

adjacent. Definitely adjacent to the things

38:40

we're talking about. So anyway, but

38:43

yes, Ms.

38:45

Gobel pretty messed up stuff with

38:47

the Thrupple concept. Patrick,

38:50

there was another thing I wanted to discuss, which

38:54

is I feel like, I

38:58

hate to get too political on

39:00

this podcast, but I feel

39:02

like - Oh no, not again,

39:04

David. There is an analogy

39:07

to real life between

39:10

the

39:13

quote unquote reforms

39:15

that Lumen made

39:17

and kind of

39:19

any time a company

39:21

makes changes for the

39:23

better or that are ostensibly

39:25

for the better to improve

39:27

things for their workers. And

39:30

I think a real recent

39:32

example of this would be, I

39:34

would say in the wake

39:36

of George Floyd's killing and a

39:38

lot of DEI programs

39:40

sprang up about understanding more the diverse

39:42

experiences of the workforce and all this

39:44

stuff sprang up. It's like, hey,

39:46

actually, we now understand these things. It's

39:48

better now. Of course, many of those

39:51

companies have rolled back those programs in

39:53

the time since then, but

39:56

when Milchick is talking about how, oh, like

39:58

we've actually made all these. It's actually so

40:01

much better now. We have good

40:03

reason to doubt that they're

40:05

being earnest, right? We have

40:07

good reason to doubt that like,

40:09

Lumen at its core has made

40:11

an actual genuine change. And I

40:13

think it mirrors this kind of

40:16

skepticism in real life. that people

40:18

have of companies that are also

40:20

theoretically making changes. Does that make

40:22

sense? Am I reaching too far,

40:24

Patrick? Or do you see it?

40:26

No, that's a mere image of

40:28

the opportunistic nature of a company

40:30

caught doing a transgression, used it as

40:33

an opportunity to apologize, quote, and

40:35

then also, you know, cover themselves in

40:37

glory by like the the apology is

40:39

like, oh, well, they've acknowledged they made

40:41

an error, they make some changes along

40:43

the margins, but actually. the

40:46

exploitation, you know, continues. As an aside, the

40:48

way that Dylan reacts to the depiction of him

40:50

eating the candy is so god damn fun. Like,

40:52

the look, he's like, I would, maybe I'd do

40:54

that a little, but like, come on, like, not

40:57

like that. I guess, so good. He has, he has

40:59

so many good lines in this first episode. Like,

41:01

when they're walking down the hallways, I would do,

41:03

Mark, would you do the other guys? Like, I'm

41:05

not really sure. Like, like, like, like, like, like,

41:07

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

41:10

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I, like,

41:12

like, like, like, like, I, I, I, like, like, like, I, I, like,

41:14

like, I, I, I, I, like, I, I don't think,

41:16

I didn't mean to get them

41:18

killed. Who cares? F those guys?

41:20

Like, they're bad anyway. He's, I

41:22

mean, he is just so funny

41:24

in this first episode. I agree.

41:27

Great actor in Severance who

41:29

plays Dylan Zach Cherry. Also,

41:31

we saw him in Sever, sorry,

41:33

succession as well. Really funny in

41:35

that show and I think this

41:37

is like kind of a really good

41:40

role for him because it really

41:42

gives me the opportunity to

41:44

shine. Okay. I had you know I was

41:46

gonna run down some of the mysteries from

41:48

season one of severance that we could talk

41:51

about like which one of them are still

41:53

open but is there anything else you wanted

41:55

to share about your reaction to this

41:57

episode we haven't really even talked

41:59

about the new crew members because

42:01

they're in the episode for such

42:03

a short period of time and

42:05

then they're seemingly gone. So really,

42:07

I give us of the casting

42:09

there. I don't think that's the

42:11

last we've seen of them for

42:13

sure. I think my, I think

42:16

my, Alija Shawcat is there, I

42:18

think Bob Balabam, right? Is there,

42:20

and these, these are like, very

42:22

well known characters. So I don't

42:24

know, Patrick, it seems conceivable to

42:26

me, they might be like cameos.

42:28

Sure, I mean they put Keanu

42:30

Reeves in as a voiceover show, you

42:32

know what I'm like, like I can

42:34

imagine a lot, like Ben Stiller knows

42:36

a lot of people, like so some

42:38

stunt casting would absolutely line

42:40

up as something that people

42:43

would be interested in doing. I

42:45

think, I think part of my

42:47

enthusiastic reaction to this episode

42:49

is just because I missed

42:51

this world and so I think

42:53

it's a pretty good episode but one

42:55

that is mostly just table setting

42:57

getting us back to the status quo

43:00

before it is one of those instances

43:02

where I prefer shows coming out episodically

43:04

but sometimes I do like it when

43:06

you get episodes one and two and

43:09

it's like okay I'm back in the world

43:11

but now what's happening and like we're

43:13

back in the world we don't know what's

43:15

happening and I suspect next week is

43:17

when we get a better inkling of

43:19

like what's going on what kind of

43:21

journey our characters going on? Because I

43:24

mean, the show even one, it almost

43:26

feels like the concluding shot of this

43:28

episode, almost really the show apologizes, it's

43:30

like, I know, boy, it took a

43:32

long time to get these people back

43:34

in a room together, right? Like, let's

43:36

just take a deep breath, let's appreciate

43:38

that, like, let's be excited, we have

43:41

a new season of severance, because they're

43:43

all just kind of smiling, and we

43:45

know, like awful things, or like awful things,

43:47

or on the horizon, no doubt, no doubt,

43:49

I'm sure will not be all. happiness

43:51

this season on severance. But I'm

43:53

glad to be back and I'm hopeful

43:55

next week we'll have a little better

43:58

insight into what do we actually doing

44:00

this season on the show. Absolutely.

44:02

Agreed with all of that. If

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45:27

right. So there's a bunch of

45:29

things that are just random things I want to mention

45:31

throughout the episode that happened. One

45:34

is we see Milchak

45:36

hand mark in

45:38

the newspaper with, hey,

45:40

like you guys were feted as heroes

45:42

and all that. And one thing

45:44

I appreciated was that massive portions of

45:46

the newspaper were blacked out. So

45:49

it kind of like, because they can't really share

45:51

that much stuff about the outside world with them

45:53

as severed people on the inside. So like, I

45:55

thought that was a nice touch. What

45:58

did you make of Miss Wong? appears to

46:00

be the new milchick, as it were,

46:02

on the inside. Just kind of like

46:04

a really off kilter thing, I think,

46:07

right? Well, it's very funny that the

46:09

episode does this a couple of times,

46:11

the characters vocalize with the

46:13

audience thinking, which is like, what

46:15

the hell, man? It's a kid. Like,

46:17

what's going on here? And I'm just

46:20

glad that someone says that. That's clearly

46:22

what the show, the reaction it wants

46:24

to get out of you is like,

46:27

hey. Whenever you think of

46:29

severance as a concept or

46:31

an action that someone might take

46:33

to, you know, having their

46:36

lives, they're consenting adult.

46:38

They're a consenting adult

46:40

that is making that choice. What's

46:42

up with this 13-year-old that's

46:45

like working at the desk?

46:47

And I suspect that will...

46:49

Maybe there's more complicating, in

46:51

the same way that you're

46:53

suspect in there's a double

46:56

agent in their midst, maybe

46:58

the way that technology works

47:00

is a little more complicated

47:03

or flexible than we've been made

47:05

to believe, or something much more

47:07

sinister, which is like this young

47:09

girl has an any that maybe

47:12

she's not aware of. Well, because

47:14

Milchick is not severed.

47:16

Right. So in the milchick is

47:18

kind of Miss Cobell's right hand

47:21

man. And then theoretically Miss Wong

47:23

is Milchick's right hand person. And

47:25

so, but Milchick is not severed.

47:28

And so like, so I don't

47:30

think Miss Wong is severed either.

47:32

But I'm like, is there an

47:34

advantage to having children run this

47:36

place? You know, like, like, does

47:39

it make them their minds easier

47:41

to wipe maybe later? Because you

47:43

don't want them to remember anything.

47:45

Uh, you know, once again,

47:47

I want to point

47:50

out that the

47:52

parallels between Lumen

47:54

and Apple are

47:56

shockingly resonant, right?

47:58

This idea of, uh, I

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