0:06

Welcome to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where I interview

0:10

various instructional designers to figure out what instructional designers do.

0:14

I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host. If you're interested in a different kind of professional development

0:19

this season, check out myfest.uquityunbound.org.

0:23

That's myfest.equityunbound.org.

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If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider subscribing or leaving

0:32

a comment on the show notes blog post and consider

0:35

helping to support the podcast with a donation to my

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Patriot account. Welcome Stan to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where I

0:44

interview instructional designers about what they do.

0:47

Can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

0:49

Thank you ever so much, Rebecca, for inviting me on

0:52

your show. I'm Stan Skrabut. I'm the director of Instructional Technology and Design at Dean

0:58

College in Franklin, Massachusetts.

1:01

I have been working as an instructional technologist designer.

1:06

That kind of blur. It goes back and forth ever

1:09

since I left the Air Force back in 1999.

1:13

So I've been doing it for just a few decades.

1:16

But while I was in the Air Force, part of

1:18

it was I was a trainer for all these airmen,

1:23

and I absolutely loved it. And I was getting degrees in computers.

1:27

And I found an absolute love of combining the two,

1:32

combining my love of providing instruction, but also the technology

1:37

part. And I realized that technology was a force multiplier.

1:41

So I got out of the Air Force, I got

1:44

a job at Hobart, William Smith Colleges, where I was

1:47

one of the first instructional technologists that they had.

1:51

And yeah, I found my dream job.

1:53

And then from there went to the University of Wyoming

1:57

and I was the director at Community College in upstate

2:01

New York. And now here I am a director in college.

2:05

In most cases, I've worked as a solo instructional technologist

2:09

designer. Very seldom did I have other people working with me.

2:13

Yeah, I've enjoyed it as far as my education, but

2:16

just worked. My bachelor's was in information systems management, learning how to

2:20

use computers as a force multiplier.

2:23

Then my master's I found a master's program totally online

2:28

was the weaving of computers and learning, basically the instructional

2:32

technology so done entirely online.

2:35

I've never been to the college. I've never seen my instructors.

2:39

When was that?

2:40

That was in 96 through nine.

2:44

Wow. Things were very new then.

2:46

Yeah, it was pre LMS management system, so a lot

2:50

of things were done with email and submitting files via

2:55

email and having discussions through emails.

2:57

Working out a group project entirely by email is fascinating

3:02

experience.

3:03

Yeah, I'm a few years after you, so I did

3:06

my master's fully online in 2002 and so we had

3:10

MSN Messenger. Okay, so we can actually text chat for our group

3:17

projects.

3:18

Oh, fun. Yeah. No. Yeah. Most of it was asynchronous, so we were on our

3:23

own to work to try to negotiate all that while

3:26

I was in the University of Wyoming, got my doctorate

3:29

and it was primarily in distance education.

3:32

And that's what I, where my niche is working with

3:35

learning management systems, building out course shells and support of

3:40

both online and face to face or hybrid courses.

3:43

That's where my focus has been.

3:46

Where you're at now. How many people do you work with?

3:49

Like, how, do you work with instructional designers?

3:51

I am it. I am the instructional technologist slash designer.

3:55

I'm the leader of a team of one.

3:57

What would your typical day be?

4:00

When I first got hired on, especially for this particular

4:03

job that we were transitioning from one learning management system

4:08

to another, my primary job was building all the support

4:13

for the faculty to make this transition here.

4:16

In two months we will have finally gotten through our

4:18

first year, but putting together templates for courses and migrating

4:23

content from the other learning management system into the templates

4:27

and getting it reorganized and trying to make all those

4:29

modifications. So I have been primarily heads down doing that for

4:35

probably eight months. Things are starting to loosen up because now we can

4:40

roll over courses from one term to another, make those

4:44

modifications, and so now it's starting to become a little

4:47

more enjoyable instead of just grinding and just repetitive stuff.

4:52

Is now the questions are becoming more interesting on how

4:56

to really use the learning management system to its full

4:59

capacity. So my typical day when I start the day is

5:03

I have a morning routine I have. Feedly running.

5:07

So I have a lot of blogs that I'm reviewing

5:10

and just keeping up on my own personal learning and

5:12

then certainly checking through emails and after that, is it

5:16

really taking care of meetings, working with different faculty who

5:20

have a request for assistance or want to learn something

5:24

new? Or I have projects that I'm working on building like

5:28

standalone courses in the LMS in order to help

5:32

faculty learn a new set of skills or putting together

5:37

a video or so. It's very varied.

5:39

There's no day is the same, and I always just

5:43

try to work on building resources to help my faculty

5:47

do what they do at a higher level.

5:50

So that's what I do.

5:51

What kind of projects do you find fun?

5:54

Ones that are just not repetitive.

5:56

So right now, building courses is just a lot of

5:59

loading content in. The things that I find fun is

6:01

when I really get to sit down with an instructor

6:06

and look over their course and we start having this

6:12

collaborative back and forth to determine what we could do

6:16

to make an experience better for the students.

6:20

A lot of it is really educating the faculty we

6:23

have in our college right now faculty who have been

6:27

primarily face to face instructors.

6:30

And so now I'm showing them how to use the

6:33

learning management system to basically amplify what they're able to

6:38

do in the classroom and provide rewarding experiences for the

6:42

students. So any time I can do that, showing them how

6:46

to use active learning methods or universal design for learning

6:50

in order to provide better supports and choice in the

6:54

student experience. Those things. For me, I find fun because there's lots of great

6:58

science on how to learn and we're just really not

7:03

tapping into it to the degree that I think we

7:06

could. Now it's starting to become a lot more fun for

7:09

me where I'm at, because we're getting to this next

7:12

level. We're turning the curve of getting into the LMS.

7:15

Now let's use the LMS.

7:17

What are your biggest challenges?

7:19

We talk about mindset for students all the time between

7:24

a fixed and a growth mindset and.

7:27

But my biggest challenge is when I run into faculty

7:31

who have a fixed mindset that, Oh, I can't learn

7:35

this, I don't know how to use technology.

7:38

And I'm thinking to myself, We've had desktop computers on

7:42

our desk for 40 years. We need to get past this.

7:46

I don't know how to use a computer. I find that often frustrating, or when instructors will take

7:52

a shortcut, that they won't buy what's out there is good research, and they're doing it

7:59

doing things as a convenience where if they took a

8:02

little bit of extra time, they would be able to

8:06

provide a better experience that would in turn provide less

8:11

work for them just by doing good instructional design and

8:15

those type of things. Those are the things that I'm working hard to get

8:18

faculty passed.

8:19

What skills do you find most useful in your work?

8:22

There's a variety of skill sets that I'm finding more

8:25

and more important. One is in the area of productivity and time management

8:30

and project management being able to block out time on

8:34

your calendar to do some deep work type things.

8:37

So that that is certainly one of the skill sets.

8:40

One of the skill sets that I've found to be

8:44

absolutely invaluable is knowing how to edit HTML code, being

8:50

able to have no fear by flipping it in to

8:54

code and going in and cleaning up junk.

8:57

Because when you move things, when you copy things over

9:00

from a word document, it brings all of this extra

9:02

garbage in and you have to spend quite a bit

9:06

of time cleaning it up. But just knowing the code, knowing just going in there

9:10

and making a tweak to it, that is certainly has

9:12

been a skill that is served me quite well.

9:15

And also manipulating spreadsheets and being able to collect the

9:20

data so you can report out what successes that you've

9:23

had, how successful programs have been, and the usage of

9:27

different things. Those are some of the things that come to mind

9:29

right now.

9:30

What advice would you give to a new instructional designer?

9:34

That's a good question, really is do a lot of

9:37

listening, right? Listen to,

9:40

don't come with solutions on top of mind for your

9:44

faculty. Really try to understand what the problem is that they're

9:48

facing and what they're really hoping to do and be

9:51

able to listen to that. The other thing which has served me well over the

9:55

years is this idea of working out loud.

9:58

The idea of working out loud is you you will

10:02

get email coming in and very often the same questions

10:06

for each email. You need to respond because you need to solve individuals

10:10

problems. But if you work out loud and you have a

10:14

blog, for example, that you answer the question in a

10:18

blog, you can then very easily just grab the link

10:22

and share it back out to somebody else who has

10:24

the same question, because you've spent time crafting this wonderful

10:29

post, but also if you have a blog and it's

10:32

public in nature, other people can find out about you.

10:37

They can find out about solutions that you have created,

10:41

but also find out about your institution that helps later

10:45

as you're looking. When I was applying for jobs, one of the things

10:50

that I would do is say, Please Google me, because

10:52

if you Google me, you will find a wealth of

10:56

stuff that I have created in order to help my

10:59

faculty be successful. I would just say be bold and work out loud.

11:03

Share what you know.

11:05

I like that. I'm encouraging my students in one of my classes to

11:09

blog and create specific blog posts and share.

11:12

We talk about networking as, networking as generosity, instead of

11:17

networking as What can I get? It's no, it's what can you give?

11:21

So there was a, I forget the name of the

11:23

gentleman, but before it was knowledge is power, right?

11:27

That that knowledge is power. And I think he was the CEO of LinkedIn, but

11:33

he's, no it's this sharing of knowledge that's power, because

11:37

now you have all this information available in the world.

11:41

But if you're not the one sharing it, then who

11:44

are you? And so being able to get out there and share,

11:47

I think, is absolutely essential, especially to what we are

11:50

doing. And I'm also grateful to all the people that have

11:54

shared because I rely on them tremendously, day to day,

11:59

on how to solve a problem that I'm facing or

12:01

my faculty.

12:03

You mentioned earlier, not in the podcast, but anyway, you

12:06

mentioned that you're working on a book.

12:09

Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

12:11

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you ever so much for asking.

12:15

This is going to be my third book. So I've done two books already.

12:18

One is dealing with Read to Succeed.

12:21

And, you know, the conversations in the hallways people were

12:25

talking about, students are not reading and I'm driving to

12:29

work, listening to podcasts. And these entrepreneurs read like books are going to be

12:35

banned. And there was a disconnect between folks that want to

12:39

be successful and those that were. And so I wrote a book about that.

12:43

And then this recent book was on Evernote for college

12:47

students, a success guide for them.

12:50

And so now this third book is a survival guide

12:54

for solo instructional technologists and designers.

12:58

And really, this is an extension past the classroom that

13:02

I don't think a lot of people realize.

13:05

It's the things that I think have helped me be

13:07

successful as an instructional technologist over my career.

13:11

Things that I've learned, each opportunity when I move from

13:15

one place to another took on a new job.

13:17

I was able to jettison things that didn't really work

13:21

and strengthen the things that are working on and try

13:25

new ideas. And so it's a culmination of that.

13:29

Talking about productivity, talking about ways that you can support

13:34

your faculty, talking about how to just manage if you're

13:38

by yourself, how do you manage all the requests and

13:42

without losing your mind? And so that's what the book is on.

13:46

I've pretty much pulled all my material together, and right

13:50

now I'm getting through that first draft of cleaning up

13:53

what I did.

13:54

Can you share a little bit? A tip that you've

13:58

learned over the years?

14:00

One is dealing with, okay, was a gentleman named John

14:04

Doerr. He wrote a book called Measure What Matters.

14:08

But these OKRs are objectives and key results and it

14:13

is a way to keep your mission moving forward.

14:16

He shared this strategy with Google, and Google's been using

14:20

it ever since. And what they do is they work in quarters and

14:26

in academics, basically working in terms, right?

14:29

So spring term, fall term, summer term.

14:32

But you set out what your objectives are, high reaching

14:36

things that you want to build, things that you want

14:38

to create in order to raise the level of the

14:41

mission, your capacity to deliver.

14:45

And so my team and I, each quarter or each

14:48

each term we will build our OKRs and then we'll

14:52

that's what we work on. That's the things that we do.

14:55

And what I found out is if you just have

14:59

annual goals. Ten months usually goes by before you start working on

15:04

those goals. And now you're racing in the last two months to

15:08

try to meet your goals. But what we do is we do this three times

15:12

a year and really just focus and we're able to

15:15

move the mission forward a lot quicker.

15:18

The other tip that I talk about, it goes into

15:22

managing your calendar and really just looking at your calendar,

15:28

all the meetings that you have that are reoccurring.

15:31

Make sure that they're on the calendar, blocking off time

15:34

for your morning routines, for your end of day routines.

15:38

Blocking off those type of things.

15:41

And then what I do, one of the strategies that's

15:44

worked well for me is at the end of the

15:47

day today I will look at tomorrow to see if

15:52

I have any meetings that faculty have scheduled with me,

15:56

if they have not. I will then start blocking out those empty periods of

16:01

time and those become my focus work times where I

16:06

can start working on courses or videos or other projects.

16:10

So I do this the night before, and otherwise my

16:14

calendar is open for anyone to jump on it to

16:17

have a meeting with me. I like to end a day today.

16:20

If tomorrow's not filled, it's now my time.

16:23

So I push them down the day and sometimes it's

16:26

hard because we get these last minute requests.

16:29

But it's, it's, it's really trying to work with the

16:31

faculty that there are no instructional design emergencies.

16:35

We have to learn to do better planning and such.

16:37

So just controlling that environment a little bit has helped

16:41

me build a lot of support for my faculty.

16:44

The more supports I build, the less reliant they are

16:47

on me individually.

16:49

That's a great tip that's really useful. And again, as you mentioned earlier, not something they teach

16:54

in the classroom. It's those things that you learn by experience.

16:59

Can you tell me a little bit about the tools that you use in your work?

17:03

You mentioned the LMS. My students often ask.

17:07

They come in very tool focused.

17:09

And so I'm curious what tools you find useful.

17:13

I have a slew of tools. So if I showed you my Google Chrome, which is

17:18

like my hub of everything, but one of the first

17:20

things I do is I pin all these websites that

17:24

I frequently go in, in and out of.

17:27

So I make sure that they're readily available. That speeds up the process of getting to things.

17:31

But then also I have different tools.

17:33

So one for my personal learning.

17:36

One of my favorite tools right now is hypothesis.

17:40

So I can go in and mark up blog posts

17:43

and PDF documents, which will then save that information through

17:48

a site called Readwise. So I have a subscription to Readwise that in

17:53

turns creates these tailored posts in Evernote.

17:58

So I've automated that process that I could just go

18:01

highlight later. When I go to Evernote, I have a post that

18:05

for each of the documents I reviewed, the things that

18:08

I highlighted.

18:09

Oh, that's cool.

18:10

Yeah, it's pretty cool. I also use Daigo a lot.

18:14

Diigo is social bookmarking.

18:16

When I'm going through the web, if I look at

18:19

something, I say, Oh, that's nice to keep.

18:21

I will save it to go and market with a

18:24

tag or taxonomy that I've created.

18:26

And then if someone says, Hey, what can you tell

18:29

me about adult learning or andragogy and all that?

18:33

I go back to my site. These are pages, sites that I've looked at and I

18:37

just give them one tag and it may end up

18:41

being 50 different sites that I've already reviewed.

18:44

And so I use that in and out of the classroom.

18:46

I have a tool called Go Video from Vidyard.

18:50

And so it's a very quick screen casting tool.

18:54

So when I'm helping a faculty member solve a problem,

18:57

I will bring up my screen and I will turn

19:01

on the video and I will talk them through the

19:04

problem and send the link in the video to them.

19:08

That's also a very powerful tool for when you're in

19:11

the job search. So when you're done, you can send a thank you

19:15

note by email. But if you do it as a video and send

19:19

a thank you, huge impact.

19:21

That's a really useful tip for people that are looking.

19:24

Those are some of the some of the tools that

19:27

I just use on a regular basis, Camtasia to create

19:30

video. I'm more of a fan of Google and Google Docs,

19:36

and because of the collaborative nature, especially in the classroom,

19:40

I try to do those things. Embedding objects into an LMS rather than just provide links,

19:46

I think makes it a little richer. And TextExpander Techs Expander is a wonderful tool for

19:53

Its teachers best friend, I tell ya, as an instructor, TextExpander is actually

19:59

quite brilliant and saves so much time because yeah, especially

20:03

if you teach the same course multiple times.

20:06

I have certain things that yeah, I just type in

20:09

my little code and it appears and it is.

20:12

Yes. Super handy for that.

20:14

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

20:17

Yeah, I'm a fan of tools, but it's really going

20:21

back to what is the problem and trying to find

20:25

the best solution for that problem. So not coming with the tool in mind, but

20:29

really trying to understand the problem. So that's in that listening phase.

20:33

I have one last question that I like to ask

20:35

everybody, and that's what's your prediction for the future of

20:38

instructional design?

20:40

I would say the prediction for the future of instructional

20:44

design is it's certainly not going away.

20:46

I think that going through this whole period with COVID

20:52

and everybody going to a kind of an online format

20:55

that a lot of faculty are walking away from that

20:58

experience saying before I thought going online was the worst

21:03

thing we could ever think of doing, but maybe not

21:06

so much. Now they're thinking that, hey, there are a lot of

21:12

very positive aspects of being online, but in order to

21:16

really do it well, I think that instructional designers need

21:21

to be in the mix to help faculty learn how

21:26

to use this environment more successfully.

21:30

Very often they walk into the classroom as a subject

21:33

matter expert, but not necessarily someone who is well designed

21:38

to be an instructor. And so they're just relying on what they've done in

21:42

the past. But the research is out there.

21:44

There are certain things that if we do this, we're

21:47

going to get better results out of our students.

21:49

And this is what instructional designers and technologists know.

21:53

So I don't think that's going away. But I would also say that you're going to see

21:59

a lot more in terms of artificial intelligence coming into

22:04

the classroom, adaptive learning, where we're personalizing instruction more and

22:10

how do we do that. And I think instructional technologists and designers will be solving

22:15

those problems. How to do that and how to make it more

22:19

faculty are able to do it. That's what I see in the future.

22:23

Stan, thank you very much for being a guest

22:26

on Demystifying Instructional Design.

22:29

Thank you ever so much. I'm excited to hear it and get it back out

22:34

to my folks. So it's been wonderful.

22:37

You've been listening to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where

22:41

I interview instructional designers about what they do.

22:44

I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host. Show notes are posted as a blog post on

22:50

DemystifyingInstructionalDesign.com If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe or leave a

22:54

comment in the show notes blog post.