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Let's turn to national politics.

0:35

Statements issued by both

0:37

the ANC and the

0:39

DA this after a

0:41

meeting between the DA, led

0:43

by John Steinhason, the

0:45

delegation, and the ANC,

0:47

led by Secretary General

0:49

Figuele Mbalula. They don't say much

0:52

in the statements. I'll share with you,

0:54

apart from establishing the facts of the

0:56

matter, I'll just tell you what they

0:58

say about the matters at hand and

1:00

I think you'll agree there's not much

1:02

there but let's at least put this

1:05

on the record. From the side of

1:07

the ANC, the meeting forms part of

1:09

the ANC's continued commitment to the principles

1:11

of dialogue, nation building and consultation in

1:13

addressing the urgent budgetary processes in the

1:15

national parliament. They go on to say

1:17

the ANC in all discussions remains rooted

1:20

in its values and resolutions and

1:22

will not compromise on the

1:24

fundamental goals of social

1:26

and economic justice, equity and

1:28

transformation. They say South

1:30

Africa must come first and finish with

1:32

this as leaders we owe to the

1:34

people of this country, black and white,

1:36

young and old, to rise above narrow

1:38

political interests and work together in the

1:40

spirit of unity and shared progress. The

1:43

equivalent part of the DA's

1:45

statement The discussions were forthright and

1:47

constructive, focusing on the way

1:49

forward on matters ranging from the

1:51

budget to a strategy for economic

1:53

growth. Similar meetings will continue on

1:55

a regular basis as we seek

1:57

to address the most pressing challenges

1:59

facing South Africa and the government

2:01

of national unity. So that's what

2:04

they're saying of crucial interest,

2:06

of course, is what's not being

2:08

said, certainly at the moment.

2:10

Fairly vanilla, I think it's fair

2:12

to say, after many weeks

2:14

now of fairly robust language and

2:16

at times outright conflict. Natasha

2:18

Marion is editor -at -large at Business

2:20

Day and joins us now

2:22

to share her insights. Natasha,

2:25

nothing really in the statements. I don't

2:27

think there are any particular clues. What

2:29

do you make of today's meeting? Was

2:31

this first step on a long road

2:33

or do you think more was achieved? I

2:36

definitely think it's a first step on a

2:38

long road. Thank you, John. It

2:41

is the second meeting

2:43

between the ANC and the

2:45

DA after the major

2:47

fallout when that vote was

2:49

taken in Parliament with

2:51

parties outside of the GNU.

2:54

So this is the second meeting

2:56

that the ANC and DA

2:58

have held since then. And the

3:00

first meeting held since the

3:02

Finance Minister withdrew the 0 .5

3:04

percentage point VAT hike. So it

3:06

is the beginning of a long

3:08

road for the GNU partners,

3:10

the two biggest GNU partners. It's

3:13

just where it will end is still up

3:16

in the air. What

3:18

do you think typically happens

3:20

in this meetings? For

3:22

example, would it be a good

3:24

thing to hear that, you know, before

3:26

everybody was calm, it was actually

3:28

quite fiery because you would have thought

3:30

that all the things people have

3:32

been saying about each other on both

3:34

sides of this particular political conflict,

3:36

that maybe if they say them face

3:38

to face, it's a good step

3:40

in the right direction? Or do these

3:42

things tend to be very carefully?

3:44

Is there a lot of tiptoeing with

3:46

a fair amount of eggshells on the floor?

3:49

I think, I think that's the

3:52

problem, John. You know, there's a

3:54

little, it's too much stuff going,

3:56

you know, very little openness when

3:58

they're sitting in front of it,

4:00

basically in the room together. Because

4:02

we heard of Piquile Mbalula,

4:04

the Secretary General of the ANC

4:07

at the Northern Cape Provincial

4:09

Conference yesterday, saying

4:11

he doesn't understand why the DA

4:13

is so in the GNU.

4:15

And that's coming from Piquile Mbalula

4:17

is quite a statement because

4:19

he was, until this

4:21

point, he was the

4:23

one calling for rationality, calling

4:25

for sober minds, calling

4:28

for putting the country first,

4:30

keeping the DA inside

4:32

to ensure stability. And

4:34

last night was the first time that he actually came

4:36

out and said, we don't understand why

4:38

the DA is still in the GNU.

4:40

They have defined themselves outside of it.

4:43

You know, going into this meeting,

4:45

having said that quite publicly

4:47

last night, it would have

4:49

been an interesting thing to do on a fly on

4:51

the wall as they had that discussion. And

4:54

Helen Tiller, as well, in her

4:56

briefing yesterday morning, she

4:58

said, she actually described

5:01

it as astonishing, the manner

5:03

in which the ANC negotiates with

5:05

the DA. She says, you

5:07

know, they keep changing their positions.

5:09

They say one thing inside,

5:11

one thing outside. But, you know,

5:13

all of this, John, speaks

5:15

to the lack of trust between

5:17

those parties. It comes down

5:19

to that between these two parties.

5:21

And I think within the

5:23

ANC, at least, you know, the

5:25

budget process and the impact

5:28

has really soured people's attitude toward

5:30

the ANC. And the next

5:32

toward the DA, sorry, and the

5:34

next ANC NEC meeting is

5:36

going to be very important to

5:38

know exactly which direction this this

5:41

coalition is going to take? I

5:43

would have thought in meetings

5:45

like this in negotiations because that's

5:47

what they are rather than

5:49

meetings or certainly that's what eventually

5:51

unfolds. Natasha, is intention is

5:53

absolutely critical. Would I be wrong

5:55

in saying that my sense

5:57

of the DA, whatever they might

5:59

say, about the ANC, their

6:02

intention is to stay in the

6:04

GNU, but there is at

6:06

least a substantial part of the

6:08

ANC whose intention is to

6:10

get them out. Yes,

6:12

absolutely. I think you're right on that,

6:14

John. The

6:16

DA seems to be

6:18

adamant on staying. They

6:21

said from the beginning we'll only leave

6:23

if the ANC pushes us out. The

6:26

ANC, for its part, has been

6:28

saying they don't understand why I

6:30

think it first came from the

6:32

the deputy president of the ANC

6:34

Paul Machetele. They don't

6:37

understand why the DA is

6:39

inside because they have

6:41

taken up an oppositional role

6:43

and defined themselves outside

6:45

of the GNU. So you

6:47

know it's this strange

6:49

standoff currently happening

6:51

between the two that you know

6:54

and the difficult piece for the

6:56

ANC as well is that it's

6:58

now This issue has now been

7:00

painted or become a subsumed in

7:02

the succession dynamics taking place inside

7:04

the ANC. So

7:06

there's added complications. And

7:09

as much as the

7:11

VAT impasse is a

7:13

step closer to being

7:15

resolved, the GNU impasse

7:17

is between the ANC and the DA,

7:19

I think, is a little

7:22

bit more up in the

7:24

air. Thank you so much, Natasha

7:26

Murray, and you can read

7:28

her various writings, columns, interviews, insights.

7:31

She's editor at large at Business

7:33

Day. Pick it up on

7:35

the Business Live site. 21 minutes

7:37

past five.