0:04

Hey Blockheads, DiM Neal, aka

0:06

Joe Moniac, and I just wanted

0:09

to jump on because I'm not

0:11

actually in this episode. And I

0:13

just wanted to take a quick

0:15

minute to say thank you for

0:17

listening to the Dungeon Masters Block

0:19

and spending the time with us

0:21

and sharing your thoughts, your ideas,

0:23

our thoughts and ideas. And while

0:25

we have closed out 2024, we

0:27

have big plans for 2025 with

0:29

the Block Party Network. And rather

0:32

than hear me say a single

0:34

sentence more. Let's head to that

0:36

holiday meet. Here, Francis, I've

0:38

got something for you. Merry

0:41

Christmas. Oh, it's five pounds

0:43

of veal. Welcome to another

0:45

Danger Master's Block Christmas episode.

0:47

This year, we're doing a

0:50

2024 retrospective about our shows,

0:52

our games, our lives, and

0:55

we're also talking about everything

0:57

we're looking forward to in

0:59

2025. We thought it would be

1:02

fun if we could invite some

1:04

of our fellow Block Party podcast

1:06

folks with us, New and old,

1:08

to join us in the merriment,

1:10

and to do some of these

1:12

questions with us. So, without further

1:15

ado, let's have everybody introduce themselves.

1:17

You know me, I'm Derek from

1:19

the DM's Block. Let's go on

1:21

down the list alphabetically to my

1:23

friend from the Bad Venture Club.

1:25

Hey, it's me, Jordan, aka Chris

1:28

from the Bad Venture Club. and

1:30

super excited to be here with

1:32

the other block party people. Hello

1:34

block heads. Hi everyone, I'm Kurt. I'm

1:36

from the podcast Dungeons and Dragons

1:38

and Daughters. I am the dad

1:41

on that podcast and the DM

1:43

for it. I'm usually introduced myself

1:45

on our show as Kurt, Daddy,

1:47

the Dungeon Master Boat. That feels

1:49

a little weird without my kids

1:51

being on this recording right here.

1:53

So, but super excited to be

1:55

here and recording with adults instead

1:57

of kids, but we'll see how that goes.

2:00

Probably very similar to children. Knock-prone

2:03

folks. So I'm Cade. I'm Brooke.

2:05

And this is the Disney channel.

2:07

So sorry. You're watching the Disney

2:09

channel. Oh my gosh. And we

2:11

run the podcast and octopron. I'm

2:13

the DM for it and the

2:15

editor. Brooke is our behind the

2:17

scenes. She does all the Tigtalk

2:19

and social media stuff. And I'm

2:21

a variety of characters on the

2:23

show. Yes. And my favorite episodes

2:25

of Absolutely Everything is the Christmas

2:27

episode. So I'm excited to be

2:29

here. Yes. Nice. Love a good

2:31

Christmas episode. Last but not least.

2:33

Oh, oh, oh. It's set. What?

2:35

Yeah, we got Santa on this

2:38

podcast, guys. That's great. Santa, I

2:40

know him! No, it's Josh, I'm

2:42

Josh Lormer. I am the showrunner

2:44

host, the M of Titans Volterra,

2:46

cast member, and I was the

2:48

editor of sneak attack back when

2:50

I was alive, and I'm a

2:52

cast member on the... I don't

2:54

need to go through every show

2:56

I've been a part of. As

2:58

a human being, I'm every year

3:00

looking more like Santa. You have

3:02

any gray coming in yet? I

3:04

do, little strands of gray. I

3:06

hope it goes straight. Yes, if

3:08

the like the Santa Claus movie,

3:10

the Claymation one or whatever, the

3:13

Chris Chris or whatever. Yes, it

3:15

is me. That is, that exactly

3:17

right. Yep. Yeah, so I just

3:19

want to get to that point.

3:21

I want to get to that

3:23

point where my wife walks in

3:25

and goes E-Papa E-Papa. Oh, now

3:27

I got to watch those. I

3:29

don't think my kids have seen

3:31

them. They might get nightmares, but

3:33

you know, that's the price you

3:35

got to pay. All right, without

3:37

further ado, let's jump into... our

3:39

questions. First, we're going to start

3:41

with some questions kind of looking

3:43

back on this last year of

3:45

2024, thinking about all the great

3:48

stuff that we've experienced or that

3:50

we've done or talking about, you

3:52

know, what really inspires us. We're

3:54

going to jump in with question

3:56

one here, question one, and let's

3:58

just follow the same order that

4:00

we've been doing alphabetically, question one,

4:02

and I'll answer last. How about

4:04

that? Question one is, what was

4:06

your favorite episode from 2024? This

4:08

can be your show. This can

4:10

be another Black Party show or

4:12

this can be any other show

4:14

that you've been consuming with TTRBG

4:16

adjacent. So we'll kick it out

4:18

with Jordan. Oh, me first. Shoot.

4:20

Okay. Um, my favorite episode. Let's

4:23

see. Gosh, I really can I

4:25

pass and I'm ready. I was

4:27

hoping you'd say the episodes I

4:29

was the guest in, but you

4:31

know, oh my gosh. No, those

4:33

were the worst. No, I'll go,

4:35

I'll actually, I will say that

4:37

episode that you guessed it on

4:39

was one of my favorites from

4:41

this last year. That was just

4:43

a blast to have you there,

4:45

the whole bulk bogan reveal is

4:47

something that Cade, R.D.M. and Derek

4:49

cooked up at a little breakfast

4:51

that they, or breakfast or lunch

4:53

meeting that they had together, where

4:55

they invented this character named bulk

4:57

bogan, who... Was literally constructed as

5:00

a joke on my character Chris

5:02

and like they constructed him that

5:04

and I can do exactly how

5:06

I was going to react when

5:08

he was introduced I fell hookline

5:10

and sinker for it Like he

5:12

he played this like Russell mania

5:14

type old Hogan obviously inspired character

5:16

and my character Chris is somebody

5:18

who would just love that and

5:20

so he's like cheering him on

5:22

and he's like yeah, this is

5:24

the best And then it's revealed

5:26

that he is the brother of

5:28

like my arch rival and somebody

5:30

that I hate. And I laughed

5:32

so hard. I'm like, you guys

5:35

got me. Like, obviously, I would

5:37

hate this person if I knew

5:39

who he really was. But under

5:41

the guise of both bogan, I

5:43

love him. That was amazing. Yeah.

5:45

It was a gift. It was

5:47

a gift. It was a gift.

5:49

The first gift of Christmas. All

5:51

right. My favorite episode that we

5:53

did this year is actually the

5:55

one that we haven't released yet.

5:57

It's one that we've got in

5:59

the can that I'm currently editing

6:01

right now because I finally got

6:03

around to doing a Christmas or

6:05

a holiday-themed episode in time for

6:07

the actual holiday-themed episode in time

6:10

for the actual holiday. That's great.

6:12

And it was always fired by

6:14

this group because when we were

6:16

getting together planning this out and

6:18

having a chat about this, it's

6:20

just like, you know what? I've

6:22

got a Saturday morning morning. So

6:24

it was something I did as

6:26

a bit of a surprise for

6:28

my kids in getting into the

6:30

recording. They had no idea. They

6:32

just thought we were just going

6:34

to be doing our regular campaign,

6:36

which we're playing through the Wild

6:38

Beyond the Witch Light. Side notes

6:40

on that one, if you haven't

6:42

played through that adventure, if you're

6:45

not familiar with it, there is

6:47

like a bonkers option that they

6:49

make available that's supposed to take

6:51

you all. to some random world.

6:53

It's written into the adventure. And

6:55

he's like, why would they have

6:57

this there? So I ran with

6:59

that. And so we got to

7:01

go to the North Pole because

7:03

of this thing that they threw

7:05

in there. I was doing fully

7:07

work. I had a festive wizard

7:09

Christmas hat so that it was

7:11

wearing in the middle of it.

7:13

I had lots of references and

7:15

puns to die hard and to

7:17

hold a loan that was in

7:20

there. One of the the character's

7:22

names was Josh McCandyclane that I

7:24

had included that gave the girls

7:26

a candy cane a sharpened candy

7:28

cane that he had duct taped

7:30

to his back and it was

7:32

just it was just a fantastic

7:34

and I can't wait to get

7:36

done with the recording and get

7:38

it out into the world. That's

7:40

so cool. I never thought about

7:42

the fact that, like, you're, like,

7:44

double performing. You're, like, performing for

7:46

the listenership of your show, but

7:48

you're also, you're, you're absolutely entertaining

7:50

and performing for your, your players

7:52

at the table. Yeah, and because

7:54

they're like kids, the amount of

7:57

guff that they give me is

7:59

awful. It's awful. It's awesome. Ah,

8:01

I'm dialing in. That sounds like

8:03

so, so much fun, man. Yeah,

8:05

not only are you. like make

8:07

fun of and harass you're also

8:09

their dad who they also love

8:11

to make fun of and harass.

8:13

Yeah it's kind of weird to

8:15

bring it up here so if

8:17

we could just kick Josh off

8:19

the call really quick. My favorite

8:21

episode that we recorded this year

8:23

was my opportunity to get to

8:25

play D&D with Josh. It was

8:27

so fun. No no no shame

8:29

at all. That was a great

8:32

recordings. It was so good. So

8:34

we have Brooke's character whose name

8:36

is Chai and she's a furbold

8:38

and she has a son written

8:40

in her story but her son

8:42

didn't have a name because furboles

8:44

don't have names. And then so

8:46

her son after getting kicked out

8:48

of the furbulks also adopted a

8:50

name of his favorite tea instead

8:52

of Chai tea. He picked the

8:54

name Earl. Which I brought up

8:56

to Josh, I was like, what's

8:58

your favorite tea in just a

9:00

call that we had? And he

9:02

was like, Earl Gray tea. And

9:04

I was like, so that's perfect.

9:07

Do you want to play a

9:09

guest character? And it just, it

9:11

worked so well. It was so

9:13

much fun. And Brooklyn, you did

9:15

such a great like southern, like,

9:17

I don't know, kind of sweet

9:19

mom, kind of like character. Yes,

9:21

yeah, thank you. And I got

9:23

to come in and play the

9:25

sun. That was so fun. Well,

9:27

I'm just here to help everybody

9:29

out and just gonna... I didn't

9:31

expect to... countermama in this dark

9:33

place. I feel like Oolong could

9:35

have been a good name too,

9:37

but you know, Cheyenne Earls are

9:39

fantastic. Yeah. That's their, that's their

9:42

cousin. Yeah, so it was really

9:44

fun because Josh was the person

9:46

who introduced me to sneak attack.

9:48

So it was, or to, Josh

9:50

was the person who introduced me

9:52

to D&D. And so it was

9:54

just really cool to have him

9:56

come on and guest at our

9:58

guest at our show. And I

10:00

would add in this last year,

10:02

I knew Kate was going to

10:04

take the episodes that we had

10:06

Josh. So I'm going to add

10:08

on top of that other episodes

10:10

that were my favorite were any

10:12

episodes that we did where we

10:14

had mini games. Hate as a

10:17

DM includes lots of mini games

10:19

in these campaigns and I. love

10:21

them. They're just a really fun

10:23

reason to roll dice. The rules

10:25

are different every time. It's always

10:27

some fun scenario. And so I

10:29

would I would say any of

10:31

our mini game episodes. I'm heavily

10:33

inspired by Survivor, the TV show,

10:35

like the reality TV show. So

10:37

like all like every time I

10:39

watch an episode of Survivor, I'm

10:41

like, how do I make this

10:43

D&D? And like that's that's been

10:45

pretty much the whole premise to

10:47

a lot of knock prone things.

10:49

It's just like... I want to

10:52

make Survivor minigames. I did love,

10:54

when I was on the show,

10:56

I loved the unique creative stuff

10:58

you guys were doing mechanically. It

11:00

was very fun. What was, okay,

11:02

what was one of your, I

11:04

have to, I have to like

11:06

probe, but like what was one

11:08

of your favorite mini games? Like

11:10

what was one of the, I'm

11:12

just curious. So the one that

11:14

is popping into my brain, I

11:16

don't know if this is my

11:18

favorite, but this is the one

11:20

that I'm remembering when I'm thinking

11:22

about this. We had one in

11:24

our current campaign, campaign three, knocked

11:26

prone, where we had, it was

11:29

just a big dramatic moment where

11:31

we had to run from one

11:33

place to a portal. And so

11:35

it was super limited time, it

11:37

was a very like timed kind

11:39

of mini game, but it just

11:41

had a really. unique roles on

11:43

what we had to do to

11:45

fend off some creatures that were

11:47

chasing us as well as get

11:49

to the portal in time and

11:51

make sure that all of our

11:53

allies were there too which is

11:55

something you could totally do in

11:57

D&D but he added mechanics to

11:59

make it into a mini game

12:01

rather than maybe how that would

12:04

like typically look and it just

12:06

made it extra spicy and fun.

12:08

Not to add on but my

12:10

favorite if I had to pick

12:12

one would be in our last

12:14

campaign We played a mini game

12:16

called The Wheel of Humber, based

12:18

off of The Wheel of Fortune,

12:20

but it was in the Under

12:22

Dark. So, and if a player

12:24

failed to check, we had like

12:26

a super high Scolville rating hot

12:28

sauce that you could take a

12:30

spoonful of in order to get

12:32

inspiration to re-roll. I got it

12:34

from inspiration from Derek, obviously, with

12:36

his two hot one shot that

12:39

he had produced. Okay. It was

12:41

great because we had people who

12:43

would like take a spoonful pot

12:45

sauce and they're like, it was

12:47

worth it. And then they'd forget

12:49

that they had it on their

12:51

hands and rub their eyes. Oh,

12:53

no. But it was awesome. So

12:55

thank you, Derek, for the idea.

12:57

Because it ruled to run as

12:59

a little mini game. Yeah, don't

13:01

put your hands on your eyes.

13:03

That idea. I have not produced

13:05

a lot of episodes for Titans

13:07

this year, but the ones I

13:09

have I really enjoyed. However, I've

13:11

been, I was accepted into the

13:14

cast for season two of the

13:16

I-caste Fireball podcast, and we're 25

13:18

episodes in. It's a pirate-themed season,

13:20

and I'm loving every second of

13:22

it. And we just released episode

13:24

25. and there's some character tensions

13:26

happening and it's just I love

13:28

it somehow like what I love

13:30

about like these like actual play

13:32

shows is we can have these

13:34

super like resonating emotional heavy moments,

13:36

but I know for a fact

13:38

like we busted our our guts

13:40

laughing at different moments of that

13:42

same episode. It's like just the

13:44

duality of that like we're telling

13:46

this really epic cool story but

13:49

we're also still having like lots

13:51

of fun and and like and

13:53

enjoying the experience which is I

13:55

don't know if there's any other

13:57

medium where you get that. Like

13:59

there's no video game that gives

14:01

you all of that at the

14:03

same time in like a 30

14:05

to 40 minute experience. So I

14:07

love it man. And so yeah,

14:09

episode 25, if you do end

14:11

listen to it, it's 25, it's

14:13

25 if you do end to

14:15

listen to it. That's a, it's

14:17

25 episodes, the first season rocks.

14:19

I'm not in it, but it's

14:21

great. All I mean it for

14:24

like a brief, like a brief,

14:26

like a brief, like a brief,

14:28

like, like, like, like, like, like,

14:30

like, like, like, like, like, like,

14:32

like, like, like, like, like, like,

14:34

it was around, like, like, like,

14:36

like, like, it was around, like,

14:38

like, like, like, like, like, it

14:40

was around, like, like, like, like,

14:42

like, like, it was around, like,

14:44

like, like, like, like, like, like,

14:46

like I've guessed it on a

14:48

bunch of different shows. I love

14:50

playing TV guys. Listen, anybody listening,

14:52

if you got a show, you

14:54

want me to play? I'm in,

14:56

just you know, reach out. It's

14:58

why I hand kids. Hey, you

15:01

know, I'm not going to lie,

15:03

I'm excited about it too. For

15:05

me, playing with Jordan and the

15:07

other bad venture folks was super

15:09

fun and conniving with his DM

15:11

on like some stuff that we

15:13

could do was really fun. So

15:15

that definitely makes my list. For

15:17

me though, for DM's Block, a

15:19

couple episodes really stand out. I

15:21

really liked doing the 300 campaign

15:23

ideas. We didn't have to do

15:25

that many, but we just like

15:27

compiled all of the past campaign

15:29

ideas we had done. And then

15:31

I had to come up with

15:33

30 new ones. That was a

15:36

lot of fun, just kind of

15:38

like thinking about all the weird

15:40

movies I've watched and what you

15:42

could do with that to make

15:44

a D&D quest. And then I

15:46

know Neil would answer this with.

15:48

An episode earlier this year with

15:50

Rowan Zioli. She's a journalist for

15:52

Rascal News, which kind of covers

15:54

tabletop role-playing games, but she shared

15:56

a story on the episode that

15:58

seven years previously she was kind

16:00

of in a dark spot in

16:02

her life, but really was kind

16:04

of finding soulless and finding comfort

16:06

in role-playing games and especially listening

16:08

to the DM's block. And so

16:11

just to kind of have her

16:13

send us that email back in

16:15

the day and then come on

16:17

the show and kind of share

16:19

like, hey this show got me

16:21

through a really dark time and

16:23

now I'm like working in the

16:25

industry and I'm doing something I

16:27

love. Just kind of warmed our

16:29

hearts a lot that you know

16:31

shows that we produce, you know,

16:33

all of us, we're having an

16:35

impact on people's lives just beyond

16:37

what we think, you know, beyond

16:39

telling stories or beyond giving advice.

16:41

So that was something that Neil

16:43

would probably say is his favorite

16:46

episode and it was a good

16:48

one for me too. All right,

16:50

question two, what is your favorite

16:52

moment from your home games in

16:54

2024? So any of your home

16:56

games, if you haven't played a

16:58

lot of tabletop games that aren't

17:00

recorded, you know we can talk

17:02

about like a game night thing

17:04

or something to just just anything

17:06

that comes to mind. So one

17:08

of the things that I he

17:10

was just so funny one of

17:12

my favorite episodes that we've done

17:14

and it's not our home campaign

17:16

but we did a one shot

17:18

for the fourth of July. I

17:21

don't know how many of you

17:23

guys have listened to that one.

17:25

I know Derek did. That one

17:27

was hilarious. It was me cayed

17:29

and we were playing founding fathers

17:31

so I played George Washington as

17:33

a paladin. Cade played Theodore Roosevelt

17:35

as a rain or a druid

17:37

and then John played Abraham Lincoln

17:39

as a bard. Like a like

17:41

a spoken word type bard. Like

17:43

eloquent with speeches I guess. And

17:45

then it was Sadie's first time

17:47

DMing and she just like loves

17:49

history and she thinks the founding

17:51

fathers are all best friends and

17:53

so we like she made like

17:56

this story like we all existed

17:58

in the same. 1776 universe and

18:00

we were checking tea into the

18:02

harbor. That's like how it opened

18:04

up It was so funny. We

18:06

actually lost the original recording and

18:08

we had to re-record the first

18:10

episode But it was so much

18:12

better the second time and I

18:14

still listen to it like I

18:16

edited that that episode and I

18:18

looked into it like a hundred

18:20

times And I still go back

18:22

and listen to it because the

18:24

gags are hilarious I added a

18:26

bunch of sound effects that I

18:28

thought were funny if you haven't

18:30

Yeah man he's on the he's

18:33

on the route rest more so

18:35

counts I don't sure were you

18:37

all fine in constitution did you

18:39

all have really high constitution scores

18:41

nice nice I see what you

18:43

did there you were just making

18:45

a joke about them being high

18:47

but but Constitution yeah that's a

18:49

great that's a great setting that's

18:51

a great theme that's a great

18:53

theme that's a funny theme that's

18:55

such a funny premise and like

18:57

space to to role play in,

18:59

that must have been really fun.

19:01

It was so funny because we

19:03

didn't even like, we didn't really

19:05

act like, county fathers, we acted

19:08

more like frat bros, just like

19:10

hanging out. Can confirm. I honestly

19:12

want to continue it, like next

19:14

year I want to do another

19:16

4th of July episode to go

19:18

back to the yeah, maybe choose

19:20

some like different presidents to play

19:22

and like go through the mall.

19:24

It was great though. You gotta

19:26

pick presence, nobody knows. Like, you

19:28

know, you're just gonna be. Well,

19:30

like, Grover. Yeah, I want to

19:32

be William Howard. Tapped. Yeah. Tapped.

19:34

Yeah. Tapped. Yeah. All right, Kurt.

19:36

Home game. Well, I was going

19:38

to say from our podcast, favorite

19:40

moments that I had was, so...

19:43

My very good friend Trent joined

19:45

our podcast and brought his daughter

19:47

to play with us So we're

19:49

just continually trying to expand out

19:51

that the show to just have

19:53

more and more kids a part

19:55

of it But the hilarious thing,

19:57

it seems like all of the

19:59

girls in my life, when they

20:01

start playing D&D, they just become

20:03

these chaos demons when they join

20:05

the game. It's like, they're just

20:07

like, what is it that I

20:09

can get away with? So I

20:11

find it hilarious that it's like,

20:13

it's only behavior that I'm seeing

20:15

from Trent's daughter is exactly the

20:18

same behavior that I saw from

20:20

my daughters when we first started

20:22

playing. And sometimes it could be

20:24

a challenge in getting them rained

20:26

in. And then when my wife

20:28

had joined during COVID because we

20:30

couldn't have, you know, guests come

20:32

on to the show anymore, so

20:34

she was like the permanent four

20:36

player that we had, she became

20:38

the chaos demon on our show.

20:40

And it was hilarious because my

20:42

daughters at the time were a

20:44

little bit more experienced and they

20:46

got to, they were the one,

20:48

they were the voice of reason

20:50

at the table with my wife

20:53

there, right? But it seems like

20:55

every new player, at least, as

20:57

part of our, or our podcast,

20:59

There's always a moment that happens

21:01

when they suddenly realize there are

21:03

actions have consequences in the game

21:05

and for the other players, right?

21:07

And so it's like we had

21:09

a moment that happened earlier this

21:11

year with with Trent's daughter where

21:13

it just completely sidetracked everything, everything

21:15

terrible happened, like it possibly happened

21:17

because of this decision that she

21:19

made. It's terrible to say, but

21:21

it was like the look on

21:23

her face when I told her

21:25

what the consequences were for her.

21:27

She's just like, wait a minute,

21:30

bad stuff can happen in this

21:32

game. And it was just like,

21:34

and yeah, it puts a toothpaste

21:36

back. Right, right. It was the

21:38

find out portion. Right, right. So

21:40

that moment or that look or

21:42

shock in her face was that

21:44

the thing that I find the,

21:46

was not the thing I liked.

21:48

But there's like, it's what she

21:50

realized that. The actions do mean

21:52

something in the game and that's

21:54

when she started taking things, I

21:56

wouldn't say a little bit more

21:58

serious because she's still just a

22:00

chaos demon. It's just like she's

22:02

realizing when she's doing something now

22:05

it feels like that she has

22:07

a little more gravitas to which

22:09

she's a little more sincere with

22:11

the actions that she takes. If

22:13

she's being goofy, she really means

22:15

to be goofy. She's just not

22:17

trying to be like the center

22:19

of attention at the table type

22:21

of thing. I would take a

22:23

dozen chaos demons over a single

22:25

emo Batman any day. You got

22:27

four of them too didn't you

22:29

judge? I did I had a

22:31

campaign with four emo Batman's all

22:33

elves and I was like and

22:35

literally start the campaign we're on

22:37

a wagon into town. Nobody's talking

22:40

so I have to make the

22:42

wagon guy talk go show. Where

22:44

are you guys coming to town

22:46

for? And literally one of the

22:48

guys says I don't want to

22:50

talk about it. And I'm like,

22:52

what are we doing guys? What

22:54

are we doing? We were recording.

22:56

It was just a game for

22:58

friends. And I'm like, I don't

23:00

know why I'm here right now.

23:02

thing to answer. My older brother,

23:04

I tried to get into D&D

23:06

for years and years and years

23:08

and he didn't believe me that

23:10

it was going to take over

23:12

his entire life and here we

23:15

are and is his entire life

23:17

and I love it. So he

23:19

joined our last campaign after hearing

23:21

us play our first campaign and

23:23

fell in love with D&D and

23:25

now he finally after years of

23:27

playing is like, okay, I want

23:29

to play. And so he decided

23:31

to make a little home game

23:33

for our family and it's been

23:35

amazing to have to watch him

23:37

trying to DM like IDM which

23:39

is like I'm like you could

23:41

do whatever you want you don't

23:43

have to listen to how I

23:45

do things but like thank you

23:47

like I appreciate it anyway but

23:50

so that's that's like my my

23:52

arcing answer is that but my

23:54

other answer is my little sister

23:56

wanted to play as a Hogwarts

23:58

witch She wanted like she wanted

24:00

to be from the Harry Potter

24:02

world as her character and it

24:04

so she's like very innocent she's

24:06

like a teenager and we're all

24:08

going through this like war zone

24:10

basically and things are getting killed

24:12

and being killed and whatever and

24:15

so it's very Harry Potter that's

24:17

very yeah so her character is

24:20

super out of like her comfort

24:22

zone and then she attacked something

24:24

and my older brother Alec said

24:26

like okay how do you kill

24:28

it? And then she's like, I

24:30

want to do a back flip.

24:33

And then like in the air,

24:35

point my wand backwards, and do

24:37

like a Nevada kidamra, like in

24:39

air. And I'm like, yeah! So

24:42

that's my favorite moment. Just her

24:44

like giving into like, this isn't

24:46

where my character is supposed to

24:48

be, but I'm going to make

24:50

it that way. So it's very

24:52

fun. Yeah, so the home game I have

24:55

in mind is also the family game

24:57

that Cade's older brother is running. And

24:59

it's just been fantastic. And I feel

25:01

like part of what's made it such

25:03

a privilege and why there's so many

25:05

great moments from there is because an

25:07

older brother, Alec, is a new DM,

25:09

which I just think is so fun.

25:11

There's such a special energy there. And

25:13

then all of his siblings are all

25:15

relatively new to D&D and I love

25:17

playing with new D&D players. I just

25:19

think they bring so much fresh freshness

25:22

and just amazing. moments to the table.

25:24

So one small example that comes

25:26

to mind to be more specific,

25:28

my sister-in-law Paige, was a little,

25:31

I'm maybe a little unsure about

25:33

like getting into D&D, like playing

25:35

with everybody, you know, just want

25:37

to be like a part of

25:39

and everything. So she decided that her

25:42

character was going to be based off

25:44

of Bibble. And I don't expect any

25:46

of you to know the reference. I

25:48

know, I know, uh, Care Bears? No,

25:50

Barbie movies. You don't know, you're just

25:52

going to have to look it up. It's

25:54

just like... Oh my God, I've actually seen

25:56

that. Yeah, you've probably seen his face because

25:59

he's like a meme. Yeah, biblical as a

26:01

meme, so small blue creature that

26:03

she is flavoring as, not a fairy,

26:05

as a... a bar fairy. Maybe

26:07

a fairy, yes, yes. Anyways, but she

26:10

used Bibble at first as sort of

26:12

like her reasoning for why she

26:14

doesn't really talk. But that has changed

26:16

so much throughout the campaign and now

26:19

she is becoming more and more

26:21

involved still playing the Bibble character but

26:23

actually getting progressively more and more into

26:25

D&B and role-playing and everything. And

26:27

so one of my favorite moments is

26:30

she turned out to be kind of

26:32

this queen to this big group

26:34

of druids who just like absolutely worshipped

26:36

it. stepped into the position, like, that's

26:39

right, absolutely, carrying me for the

26:41

rest of the way through this forest.

26:43

And just, it was amazing, I loved

26:45

it, total vibe. So if that

26:47

was one of my favorite moments from

26:50

this last year, homeroom wise. What a

26:52

cool, what a cool, like narrative

26:54

through line there too about like, Alec,

26:56

learning to fall and live with D&D,

26:59

and then bringing your guys whole

27:01

family along with him, like, very cool.

27:03

Very cool. Okay, home game, I've been

27:05

playing for like, I think almost

27:07

three years now, a cyberpunk magic kind

27:10

of fantasy world. We call it mage

27:12

punk. And chapter one, like we

27:14

did it like really quickly. We were

27:16

all super hyped and into it and

27:19

then life got chaotic and chapter

27:21

two lasted like forever. It's been like

27:23

I think over a year in the

27:25

in the making and it culminated

27:27

in this super big final kind of

27:30

push to basically pull a a fight

27:32

club thing where like we shut

27:34

down the like this like corrupt cities

27:36

financial resources and distribute wealth equally like

27:39

kind of just shuts this down

27:41

and my character was like kind of

27:43

a chaotic bounty hunter like spike from

27:45

from cowboy bebop kind of kind

27:47

of vibes and I was a I

27:50

was kind of spearheading this whole attempt

27:52

and I had secretly inserted into

27:54

like the code that we were going

27:56

to send in like this like Kill

27:59

order to like take care of

28:01

like all of the like people in

28:03

charge like if you place of power

28:05

and things like that some kind

28:07

of like huge like dark element to

28:10

this like takeover thing we were doing

28:12

like a power shift and Without telling

28:14

me one of the other players

28:16

had rolled enough like to figure out

28:19

what my like evil plan was and

28:21

and and adjusted it so that

28:23

it wouldn't do all the bad things

28:25

I thought it would do and so

28:28

I thought at the end of

28:30

the campaign that when we finally won

28:32

and like half our characters died, my

28:34

character died, but I still thought

28:36

I was gonna have the last laugh

28:39

as like doing this really like, you

28:41

know, like insane, very chaotic, evil,

28:43

murder, demon, energy, but like, uh, the,

28:45

uh, I was the one who had

28:48

egg on my face. I'm waiting

28:50

for him to like reveal the second

28:52

piece of this like devastating move, and

28:54

he never does. And I'm getting

28:57

more annoyed at the, at the time,

28:59

like, I'm like, Andrew, Andrew, what about

29:01

the other part of it? He

29:03

goes, he goes, it never happened. And

29:06

I, oh, it was like, I've never

29:08

loved being disappointed more. Like, it

29:10

was such a better way to end

29:12

the story for everyone. And I was

29:15

so devastated as the character, but

29:17

I was like the player. Josh, I

29:19

loved it. I was, it was so

29:21

satisfying. There's nothing like getting surprised.

29:23

at the end of like a huge

29:26

long campaign and yeah so shout out

29:28

to Andrew and Kenny and all

29:30

those fellows I've been playing D&D with

29:32

without recording it's been a blast. So

29:35

for my answer I ran a

29:37

one shot for my friend's game a

29:39

few weeks ago he said hey come

29:41

be a DM for a one

29:43

shot for my friends and I the

29:46

gist was their current group touched some

29:48

orb. or something like that that

29:50

unlocks a memory of a time before

29:52

and so I got to play, I

29:55

got to run the memory that

29:57

they were all sharing together. And the

29:59

memory just happened to be, they're all

30:01

crazy level 20 spellcasters who live

30:03

on this floating city, and then the

30:06

floating city gets taken over by an

30:08

evil entity that lives in the

30:10

moon, and it's trying to crash the

30:12

city into a city that's on the

30:15

surface that contains all of these

30:17

wards that are holding the creature in

30:19

the moon. And so it's trying to

30:21

free itself by crashing the city

30:23

into these wards. And so they, it

30:26

was just this crazy knockdown drag out

30:28

like, I think it was four

30:30

hours of combat, like one single comment.

30:32

Because, you know, they were playing level

30:35

20s, but like, it was the

30:37

first time they'd play these level 20s

30:39

because they just built them for the

30:41

one shot. So like, they're not

30:43

super familiar with all their abilities and

30:46

spells. They haven't to do a lot

30:48

of reading on their turns. And,

30:50

you know, there was like 20 initiatives,

30:52

you know, 20 different. turns or whatever

30:55

that had to happen each round.

30:57

Anyway, it was a ton of fun.

30:59

It was a slog. It was fun

31:01

to prep for. I'd never actually

31:03

run a game at level 20 before.

31:06

I think I've gotten to like 14-ish

31:08

a couple of times, but that

31:10

was like the highest level I'd run

31:12

for. It was a very fun challenge

31:15

and it was a really fun

31:17

payoff to give them a lot of

31:19

little breadcrumbs that's happening. in their current

31:21

game with their other characters. So

31:23

it's kind of fun to like get

31:26

to play in a little sandbox of

31:28

somebody else's world for a while.

31:30

So that was my favorite moment from

31:32

home games this year. D.M. for a

31:35

bunch of 20 level players is

31:37

a heck of a thing to take

31:39

on. Yeah, there was a wizard who

31:41

had time stop and he had

31:44

like eight turns in like two, two

31:46

rounds. You know, he like gave himself

31:48

four extra turns twice. It was

31:50

like. I don't even do about this.

31:53

That's great because I don't know how

31:55

well that would translate into a

31:57

podcast that, but like you don't, so

31:59

like there's, I feel like there's moments

32:02

you don't get when you're, like

32:04

when you're just recording, it's so nice

32:06

to have that. I have so appreciated

32:08

having a home game. It's been

32:10

like a great place to have. It's

32:13

a good balance. Yeah. Yeah, you don't

32:15

have to feel like you're on

32:17

all the time. Even as I was

32:19

like sharing my story, I was like,

32:22

I don't feel like this is

32:24

a good thing to share. I feel

32:26

like it was a very dark campaign.

32:28

It did sound pretty dark. But you

32:31

know, you got a trying to

32:33

stop. I'm over here, like family-friendly podcast

32:35

show. Try to tear down the government

32:37

system. Yeah. Yeah, bombs and yeah,

32:39

bombs and yeah, it was crazy. It

32:42

was crazy. It was crazy. All right,

32:44

question number three is, what is

32:46

the coolest TTRBG or Game Night thing

32:48

you got, and I'll say, or Gave

32:51

in 2024? So some little knickknack

32:53

or book or thing, in the past

32:55

they've mentioned like drinking horns, you know,

32:57

so it's kind of like anything

32:59

that you might use for your games

33:02

that you've been enjoying. It could even

33:04

be podcast stuff too. All right,

33:06

Jordan. I can count this, this isn't

33:08

a plug for anything, but I got

33:11

the... Yeah, not an ad. Can

33:13

I get the... Can I got the...

33:15

Madies 20 or whatever, right? Yeah, use

33:17

code badies, go scream at somebody

33:19

at a pizza restaurant, and they'll give

33:22

it to you. That's a little inside

33:24

joke, so sorry. I got the

33:26

one-shot Wonder's book. Let's see inside jumps.

33:28

Love to be a part of those

33:31

one day Exactly who makes this

33:33

they are not good Derek one-shot wonders

33:35

The one-shot wonders book. Oh, it says

33:37

on the cover doesn't it? Yeah,

33:39

I guess I just had a bunch

33:42

of crap on it I got this

33:44

book. Oof. Yes, it's making it

33:46

fuzzy. Sorry, it's okay. They can't hear

33:48

the fuzz the role play press yeah

33:51

roleplay play play rest they made

33:53

this and it's just like a book

33:55

of like little one shot ideas oh

33:57

that's cool I gave this to

33:59

some of my players like I just

34:02

I bought it and then gave them

34:04

access to the PDFs of it

34:06

because I got a digital copy too.

34:08

DM's block is like a known piracy.

34:11

Yeah I didn't sell it. I

34:13

just basically that they're all borrowing it.

34:15

So right from the library of Jordan.

34:17

Yeah. But it just has like

34:19

really cool ideas for different types of

34:22

one shots and like we you can

34:24

like build it into like an

34:26

encounter in like your own your own

34:29

story. I really love

34:31

it. So that's nice. One that I

34:33

did. And I know that I think

34:35

Skyler's getting us a gift when we

34:37

hit campaign two. So that might be

34:40

my fun, my gift for next year.

34:42

I was gonna say that one, but

34:44

I don't know if it counts for

34:47

that. I don't have it yet. Okay.

34:49

The tension builds. That'll be a question.

34:51

I'm looking forward to for 2025. Right.

34:53

Kurt. The favorite thing that I gave

34:56

actually given yet because it's going to

34:58

be a Christmas present to one of

35:00

my daughters So if they find out

35:02

about it beforehand I'm going to be

35:05

able to trace it back to this

35:07

small group of people But one of

35:09

my daughters has turned into a into

35:12

a dice goblin and every time we

35:14

go to the comic book store. She's

35:16

got to buy a new set of

35:18

dice I got her the, whether it

35:21

was the Laura Bailey's dice bag of

35:23

holding from from critical role. The big

35:25

huge bag that's got all the different

35:28

sections and compartments that are in there

35:30

for carrying around 30 sets of dice

35:32

because one set is not nearly enough

35:34

apparently. So I'm excited to give that

35:37

to her favorite thing that I got

35:39

this year. I actually really enjoyed the

35:41

new players handbook for D&D, the 2024

35:43

version of the players handbook. Reading back

35:46

through that, it sparked a lot of

35:48

things with me that, or reminded me

35:50

about a lot of things that I

35:53

enjoy about the hobby and specifically about

35:55

D&D. Plus, I just love how... much

35:57

more well organized it is compared to

35:59

the 2014 version. In fact, in retrospect,

36:02

that book is awful with the way

36:04

that it's laid out. It's like, I

36:06

don't know how fifth edition ever became

36:08

so popular to begin with, because if

36:11

that was the player's handbook, then most

36:13

players were starting out with it. It's

36:15

like, I'm shocked that people stuck with

36:18

it. It did take a while to

36:20

understand. And it has Southwestern flavored orch,

36:22

which I think is great. the real

36:24

clue if it's a better version is

36:27

like have all the pages followed out

36:29

yet and is it like decomposing within

36:31

like a week of owning it because

36:34

that's what the original players handbook did

36:36

if you guys don't know the original

36:38

players handbook like deteriorated so fast people

36:40

were sending in like to get copies

36:43

no no from like from five e

36:45

like it's like it's rare yeah they

36:47

had like returned they did like a

36:49

whole they had a whole thing I

36:52

believe where they were like people could

36:54

return could send their like busted book

36:56

in and they get a new one

36:59

back Plus for that glue, huh? Yeah,

37:01

I thought you were implying you just

37:03

by, because it got used so much,

37:05

you could tell the truth, because of

37:08

how much you were flipping back and

37:10

wearing it out. Well, oh gosh, I

37:12

did not know that. Yeah, they were

37:15

just binded terribly, I think. Yeah, I

37:17

had not heard that. Okay, something new

37:19

every day. Just me, just me. Sorry.

37:21

Knock from, folks. So the favorite thing

37:24

that I was given, I got the

37:26

coolest, knock-prone DEM-prone DEM screen. That was

37:28

laser engraved by my father-in-law. So it

37:30

says knocked prone. It has our logo

37:33

on the front of it and on

37:35

the sides of it. It has octopus

37:37

tentacles that are like crawling up the

37:40

sides of the screen. It's really cool.

37:42

It was just a really nice thing

37:44

for my father-in-law to be like, you're

37:46

gonna like this. And then he's amazing.

37:49

He like is so good at building

37:51

things. He helped us build our current

37:53

house that we're in. which is awesome.

37:56

Yeah, just like knowing that I would

37:58

have really appreciated something like that was

38:00

awesome, but then after he gave it

38:02

to me, he was like, it could

38:05

have been better. Like, I could, like,

38:07

let me take it back and I

38:09

could fix it. And I'm like, this

38:11

is perfect, Jen, like, thank you.

38:13

And then the favorite thing that

38:16

I have given was I gave

38:18

Brooke the last year for

38:20

birthday Christmas, because we have, the

38:22

same week is our birthday and Christmas,

38:24

we're born on the same day. Oh.

38:27

I gave her an iPad. And so,

38:29

because of which, she's been really

38:31

into digital art, I mean, I

38:33

speak for her. It's been cool

38:36

to watch her get into digital

38:38

art and explore that side of

38:40

D&D character art and other things

38:43

like that. Definitely. I concur that

38:45

the iPad has been great for

38:47

a lot of D&D purposes, so

38:49

that has been great to have. The

38:51

other thing that I was going to

38:53

say is cosplay stuff. That's like become

38:55

kind of a common gift at our

38:57

house, you know, when you have a

38:59

good find to get some cosplay stuff,

39:01

which is like, I mean, we do

39:03

make content and sometimes we use cosplay

39:06

for the social media content that

39:08

we make, but I also just love

39:10

having it around. Like, for D&D

39:12

settings, podcast related or home

39:14

game related. I just think it's

39:16

a fun thing to have around

39:18

so I love like basically my

39:20

dress up tote of all the

39:22

cosplay things that like anybody can

39:24

use and I think it can

39:26

be really fun for games. So

39:28

yeah, yeah, definitely. Is that me now?

39:31

It's so funny. I don't think I've

39:33

been giving or are getting a lot

39:35

of like deemed gifts of late,

39:37

but I'll just go ahead and

39:39

say something I purchased this last

39:41

year that I'm. you know, sanely

39:43

excited about is the Cosmeer RPG.

39:46

I went ahead and like, I

39:48

sunk the money in during the

39:50

kickstarter to, to like be right at

39:53

the forefront of when that whole

39:55

system comes out. And having read,

39:57

I read through like the 30

39:59

pages. what's already been released? And

40:01

I'm just beyond, I feel like

40:03

it is one of the most

40:05

well thought out, like new TTRP

40:07

that's being made. And I'm so

40:09

pumped to start playing in it.

40:11

Nice. Yeah, as we are speaking

40:13

right now, the Dragon Seal Convention

40:15

is happening, you know, 30 minutes

40:17

down the road. So Brando Sando's

40:19

got a big following around here

40:21

at least. I mean, to date

40:23

when this is recording, tomorrow, book

40:25

five of the Stormlight archive comes

40:27

out on audible at least. And

40:29

so like I'm like I'm. am

40:31

just, I'm so immersed in the

40:33

Sanderson book, Cosimir. People are getting

40:35

excited. For me, I finally got

40:37

a book that I kick-started a

40:39

year and a half ago. I

40:41

know they've been having supply chain

40:43

issues and such, so I got

40:46

it for myself a while ago,

40:48

but I finally got it this

40:50

year. It's the Kids on Bikes

40:52

second edition book. I really love

40:54

the genre. I love those kinds

40:56

of movies, the Spielberg movies, and

40:58

you know, Stranger Things, and that

41:00

kind of stuff. So I was

41:02

really excited to use that and

41:04

run something in that kind of

41:06

vein. So for Halloween, I've been

41:08

running a Kids on Bikes game

41:10

for my Players Arena for October,

41:12

and we're finally going to finish

41:14

it tomorrow actually. But yeah, it's

41:16

been a lot of fun to

41:18

kind of dig into that, try

41:20

something new with my group who's

41:22

caught up in mostly 5Vie up

41:24

to this point. So fun to

41:26

see them try something new and

41:28

enjoy it. And fun for me

41:30

to think about games and a

41:32

different, through a different lens, I

41:34

guess. So yeah, that's been really

41:36

fun. Do you feel like it

41:38

was a pretty like comfortable transition

41:40

for 5E into kids on bikes?

41:42

Kids on bikes is very light

41:44

on rules. There's like a little

41:46

bit, but like most of the

41:48

crunch is like, you know, character

41:50

abilities and. like your bike gives

41:52

you some some additional stuff you

41:54

can do, but it's mostly stuff

41:56

you can do that has to

41:58

do with the core game mechanics,

42:00

so it's not like a bunch

42:02

of... stuff that's scaffold it out.

42:04

It's all very focused on the

42:06

main mechanics, which is really nice.

42:08

So, and very, very flexible too.

42:10

You can do lots of different

42:12

stuff with it. I know they've

42:14

taken the same system and made

42:16

like kids in, yeah, kids in

42:18

caves and teens in space and

42:20

kids on brooms. So like kind

42:22

of Harry Potter ask and then,

42:24

I don't know about teens in

42:26

space, but it sounds probably like

42:28

what it is, kids in example

42:30

of what that might be like.

42:32

Anyway, yeah, it's been a lot

42:34

of fun. So it's been fun

42:36

to just try something new. All

42:38

right. Next question. What is a

42:40

lesson you learned either as a

42:42

player or as a dean this

42:44

year, which you will carry in

42:46

to the new year? Gee whiz.

42:48

A lesson that I've learned. I

42:50

feel like I never learned lessons

42:52

when I should. I've been really

42:54

trying to work on and we're

42:56

a new podcast like full of

42:58

newer players and players that have

43:00

never recorded themselves, you know, playing

43:02

a game. This is our first,

43:05

our first campaign and we actually

43:07

had a meeting about stuff that

43:09

we need to practice and get

43:11

better at and something that I

43:13

have learned that I want to

43:15

try to be better at and

43:17

learn to go to next year

43:19

is that I have to remember

43:21

that I'm on a podcast and

43:23

so whenever I'm like doing Combat,

43:25

especially combat, I have to make

43:27

it exciting for the audience to

43:29

listen to. Like I have to

43:31

add some quips in there. Yeah,

43:33

I've talked about it with you,

43:35

Derek. Like we have to talk

43:37

to each other. We can't just

43:39

be like, I roll and get

43:41

like a four. And my turns

43:43

over. You know, like you have

43:45

to make it engaging for the

43:47

audience. And that's tough. It is

43:49

and like you say that you

43:51

know, it's it's kind of a

43:53

podcasting, but I I think that

43:55

it applies to your home games

43:57

too because if combat becomes the

43:59

thing where like everyone's on their

44:01

phones except for whose turn it

44:03

is like you're not doing enough

44:05

to like yeah keep it interesting

44:07

and make people pay attention that

44:09

that can be tough yeah I

44:11

feel like I did a good

44:13

skill for both yeah yeah I

44:15

really feel for DM's too because

44:17

DM's have to take like they

44:19

are really setting the tone for

44:21

all of that I recognized it

44:23

when The first time that I

44:25

deemed for a one shot was

44:27

our Christmas one shot last year.

44:29

And I had, I was playing

44:31

the crampas and I listened back

44:33

to that episode and like I

44:35

said two words that entire encounter.

44:37

Like I was like, oh my

44:39

eye. And that was it. And

44:41

one of them shot him in

44:43

the eye. And yeah, he's always

44:45

complaining about that. But then I

44:47

was like, man, this could have

44:49

been way cooler if I would

44:51

have, like, interacted with my players

44:53

more and, like, kind of set

44:55

the tone and, like, they could

44:57

have been, like, egg me on

44:59

and stuff and made it more

45:01

of an interactive experience. So it's

45:03

really hard to do. We have

45:05

meetings about it sometimes. As a

45:07

group, we're like, hey, guys, like,

45:09

remember, you're in a podcast. Please

45:11

make it engaging. Like, let's get

45:13

the improv. From Demention 20, you're

45:15

like a professional voice actor. I

45:17

mean, technically we are to professional

45:19

voice doctor. But like, if you

45:22

don't have that experience, improving, it's

45:24

tough. So yeah, I want to

45:26

practice that and get better at

45:28

that. And always have that as

45:30

a, I want to turn that

45:32

week, we have to do a

45:34

strength. Thank you. Sweet. For me,

45:36

the less, one lesson that I

45:38

learned is the importance of session

45:40

zeros. We've had a couple of

45:42

situations recently where it's it's we've

45:44

had conflict at the tables not

45:46

you know at it better. home

45:48

games. We've had rage quits. We've

45:50

had people just walk away. I'm

45:52

reaching the point in my life

45:54

where like time is like one

45:56

of the most valuable commodities that

45:58

I have. And so D&D or

46:00

just tabletop RPGs is like this

46:02

hobby. This is like therapy for

46:04

me. This is it's a very

46:06

important aspect of my life. And

46:08

it is so the time that

46:10

I spend playing it is so

46:12

valuable that I do not want

46:14

anyone. at the table that does

46:16

not want to be there. I

46:18

don't want anyone at the table

46:20

to play in a way they

46:22

don't want to be playing. And

46:24

so not just for myself, but

46:26

everyone else that that's at the

46:28

table as well. Like we want

46:30

to be playing the game that

46:32

everyone wants to play and everyone's

46:34

going to have the most amount

46:36

of fun that they can play.

46:38

I don't want it to be

46:40

a slog for anyone. And so

46:42

it's like this year that that's

46:44

a... It feels like that's a

46:46

lesson that I keep having to

46:48

learn over and over again. And

46:50

it's like, really listen to people,

46:52

what they say, what they want,

46:54

out of the game. Because it's,

46:56

people are shockingly honest when it

46:58

comes to that sort of thing.

47:00

Sometimes people say one thing, but

47:02

they really do mean another. True.

47:04

It's a good lesson though, and

47:06

like you said, a lesson that

47:08

sometimes takes a lifetime. Yes. One

47:10

lesson I feel like that I've

47:12

really kind of... grasped on to,

47:14

learned as a as a DM

47:16

this year, kind of the opposite

47:18

of Jordan, but in the same

47:20

vein is to take myself a

47:22

little less seriously when I'm recording.

47:24

I started D&D as a podcast,

47:26

like the first recording of Knock

47:28

Prone was like one of the

47:30

first times I'd ever played D&D

47:32

because I was just like, I

47:34

know that I know that I

47:36

like it, I know that I

47:39

like it, I know that I

47:41

have a podcast setup, I'm just

47:43

going to go for it. I'm

47:45

just going to go for it.

47:47

And I stress myself out so

47:49

much because I watch all these,

47:51

you know, big podcast, big shows

47:53

and I'm like, they're amazing and

47:55

I need to be them. And

47:57

if I'm not them, what am

47:59

I even doing here? But at

48:01

the end of the day, D&D

48:03

is a game. And even though

48:05

it's a podcast, like the podcast,

48:07

the knock-prown podcast, I still have

48:09

to like have fun with it,

48:11

because that's the thing that makes

48:13

you fall in love with a

48:15

DM, with the characters, that it's

48:17

like, oh my gosh, they're having

48:19

so much fun. You could just

48:21

tell like that they're like a

48:23

group of friends and like you

48:25

want to be at their table.

48:27

So it's just been really hard

48:29

because... Sometimes I use my phone

48:31

voice when I am DMing. It

48:33

feels like I'm like, hello, yes,

48:35

I am cayed. And this is,

48:37

instead of just being natural and

48:39

trying to be myself at the

48:41

table, trying to not put on

48:43

the like, the businessman that I'm

48:45

trying to be a big podcaster,

48:47

but just need to be a

48:49

friend to not only my table,

48:51

but to the audience. Yeah, it's

48:53

real. It's real. Very real. It

48:55

is. It is. Totally. I was

48:57

going to say that as far

48:59

as what I learned as a

49:01

player this year, I had a

49:03

goal when we started campaign three,

49:05

which was a year ago, to

49:07

not hold back aspects of my

49:09

character. I think I was under

49:11

the impression for a long time

49:13

that like your character needs to

49:15

like... develop over time in a

49:17

way that you've planned and that

49:19

you need to like release information

49:21

like bit by bit as it

49:23

comes up like well I'll talk

49:25

about that like when it's a

49:27

good time and I just have

49:29

found that that doesn't usually play

49:31

out well for me and that

49:33

it makes it way more interesting

49:35

you connect with people quicker they

49:37

understand who your character is more

49:39

and then you still have space

49:41

for plenty of character development by

49:43

just putting it out there quicker.

49:45

front loading content. Yes, like front

49:47

load more of your character, but

49:49

I feel like I'm still bringing

49:51

that into 2025 because I I

49:53

did better with campaign three. I

49:55

think I did that more, but

49:58

I'm like, I could do more.

50:00

I could have leaned into that

50:02

even harder. So I like that

50:04

that's still, I feel like an

50:06

ongoing goal to just lay out

50:08

your character. You know, like stop

50:10

holding back so much. It's hard to

50:12

do that. So, you know, it's hard

50:14

to be vulnerable and it can even

50:16

be harder to be vulnerable for

50:18

some other character that you made

50:20

up. But yeah, I appreciate that.

50:22

That's awesome. That's great. I do

50:25

feel like I'm going to end up

50:27

echoing the back. This is a little

50:29

bit because the like I literally have

50:31

written down not take myself too seriously

50:34

I think for me it's a two-sided

50:36

coin of not take myself too seriously

50:38

while also taking the and this is

50:40

kind of I guess gets closer to

50:42

what like Brooklyn was saying is like

50:45

the but taking the prep a little

50:47

bit more like like like being willing

50:49

to like put more time in on

50:51

how I'm deciding to execute stuff that

50:53

I'm making in games that I'm preparing

50:56

but then when like when the shows on

50:58

Letting loose like then then the like

51:00

once I'm sitting down whether it's recording

51:03

or not like just not not being

51:05

so held up by any kind of

51:07

bullet list of things I want to

51:09

accomplish and being willing to like divest

51:12

like as much of my character right

51:14

out the gate as I Can or

51:16

give give the campaign as much in

51:18

given them as much information as they

51:21

want right at the top. It's always

51:23

been interesting to me to take away

51:25

the typical things that that I feel like

51:27

DEMs use as like stakes in a campaign

51:30

whether it be like information or like the

51:32

threat of death if my players can know

51:34

whatever they want and they don't have to

51:36

worry about dying why do they care about this

51:38

adventure and I think that that pushes me

51:41

to create a much more interesting story and

51:43

give them a lot more agency as to

51:45

like what matters in the world so yeah

51:47

that's that's where I'm looking at next year

51:50

going like okay like what are some different

51:52

stories we can tell that are maybe like

51:54

not huge like world-threatening epics but are about

51:56

like people things and like can be kind

51:59

of really interesting and a little more

52:01

introspective. And yeah, like how can

52:03

we change the stakes and what

52:05

does that make a story look

52:07

like is really fun to consider.

52:09

It sounds like the Superman problem.

52:11

It's like, it's one of the

52:13

reasons why Superman comics have a

52:15

tendency to be so good is

52:17

because he is invincible. He's super

52:19

strong and super fess he can

52:21

do anything. So the only way

52:23

they can get tension and interest

52:25

out of the story is if

52:27

you tackle. areas that don't rely

52:30

on Superman being super. It's more

52:32

it focuses more on the man

52:34

part of him than anything that's

52:36

what makes the character in the

52:38

story so interesting in those comics.

52:40

In stand-up comedy when a comic

52:42

is like touring their they're like

52:44

hour or whatever they're working on

52:46

they'll like a typical thing they'll

52:48

do to like refine each joke

52:50

is to change the order up

52:52

and whichever joke is at the

52:54

end has to be the big

52:56

cellar and so it forces them

52:58

to make that like whatever joke

53:00

ends up like any time they

53:02

reorder they have to like almost

53:04

rework the way they tell that

53:06

joke to make it the finisher

53:09

and there's there's just something really

53:11

cool about going I'm gonna strip

53:13

away these things I'm comfortable with

53:15

or what I think telling a

53:17

good story is supposed to be

53:19

about and focus on something else

53:21

and see how to see what

53:23

kind of story that creates and

53:25

it's really fun. You think I

53:27

would have had an answer prepared

53:29

answer for answering it but I

53:31

was just listening so intently because

53:33

you had such good answers. Not

53:35

that your other answers Have been

53:37

good stuff to this point. Now,

53:39

Derek just woke up, guys. He's

53:41

been, like, sleeping at his hands

53:43

this whole time. I wish, sometimes.

53:45

That's how terrible the answers were,

53:48

prior to this. You wish he

53:50

was sleeping through them. Let's see,

53:52

let's see. I've really been working

53:54

on kind of what Jordan was

53:56

talking about, but more like. describing

53:58

the scene and setting the scene

54:00

with my words better, like the

54:02

tone and the setting and kind

54:04

of trying to evoke emotion. and

54:06

evoke how they should be feeling

54:08

based on where they are without

54:10

obviously giving too much away about

54:12

what is going to happen or

54:14

that kind of thing. So I've

54:16

been trying to set the scene

54:18

a little bit better. And also

54:20

something that the Kids on Bikes

54:22

game does, which is really fun,

54:25

is that everyone collectively creates the

54:27

town that you're going to play

54:29

in and then everyone collectively contributes

54:31

to the rumors in the town.

54:33

in the landmarks in the town

54:35

to kind of like make it

54:37

interesting. And so that means you

54:39

as the person running the game

54:41

have to like, not have to,

54:43

but get to like incorporate all

54:45

of this stuff that they have

54:47

come up with. And I've done

54:49

this in the past where I've

54:51

asked players here and there for

54:53

some like ideas or information, but

54:55

I've definitely found myself doing it

54:57

more often now where I will

54:59

ask for ideas like, hey, what

55:01

is this? Or who is that?

55:04

Or who is here? But it

55:06

also kind of does what you're

55:08

talking about Josh where it gives

55:10

them more skin in the game,

55:12

gives them more stakes because they're

55:14

like, oh I helped build this,

55:16

I helped create this, therefore it

55:18

is more meaningful to me, you

55:20

know, whatever ends up happening. So

55:22

yeah, that's been something I'm definitely

55:24

working on that I will continue

55:26

to focus on in the coming

55:28

year. This is Kay-Kade's question here.

55:30

All right, what has been the

55:32

hardest challenge you had to overcome

55:34

this year? as a podcaster? Great

55:36

question. I think for me personally

55:38

we came over we overcame a

55:40

lot of audio problems. Kate and

55:43

I basically taught ourselves how to

55:45

podcast and like how to edit

55:47

and watched a lot of things.

55:49

I met a friend who like

55:51

taught me how to like about

55:53

vocal or like buses and audition

55:55

you know like yeah I would

55:57

say audio problems if those you

55:59

guys were listening to our podcast.

56:01

You yeah, hopefully you've noticed a

56:03

huge improvement in our quality because

56:05

we were all recording our we're

56:07

at the very beginning we're recording

56:09

all of our audio all of

56:11

our vocals on one track yeah

56:13

and it's out it's so bad

56:15

and we've just improved leaps in

56:17

bound I don't know a single

56:19

podcaster who can share that that

56:22

sentiment you know no one else

56:24

has ever dealt with audio issues

56:26

our first podcast was recorded in

56:28

a kitchen I don't know. For

56:30

Sneeky Tech. Like in a kitchen

56:32

with like cardio and mics that

56:34

like picked up everything. Yeah. And

56:36

there's still a lot to improve

56:38

on on our audio, but we're

56:40

getting better every day. That's probably

56:42

one of the hardest challenges we

56:44

had to overcome. Sorry, it's not

56:46

anything like personal to like my

56:48

character. But that's no, that's great.

56:50

Yeah. Jordan, we should just have

56:52

a fun sit-down. Audio is like.

56:54

My whole life, I will come

56:56

hang out with you and we'll

56:58

just have an audio jam sash.

57:01

I'll teach you all the things

57:03

I know, we'll have a great

57:05

time. I don't know, I don't

57:07

know shit, dude. Me, but that's

57:09

what's great. I'll teach your wife

57:11

about digital art. I'm a very

57:13

good digital art. I'll sit at

57:15

that table. The, uh, the new

57:17

graphic for the, the podcast is

57:19

awesome. I'll say real quick. I'll

57:21

say real quick, just because like

57:23

anybody listening as well, like, that

57:25

is not just like the whole

57:27

like everybody starts with bad audio

57:29

thing, but the ability to know

57:31

that something you're doing is not

57:33

as good as your taste and

57:35

keep doing it, is a defining

57:37

factor as to whether or not

57:40

like this will be a medium

57:42

that you can enjoy and participate

57:44

in like consistently in the future.

57:46

Like it's, you have to get

57:48

comfortable like just. being okay with

57:50

being bad for a while and

57:52

and and I don't know that

57:54

my like I don't know that

57:56

my to produce a show has

57:58

ever met my taste. I feel

58:00

like I just keep finding like

58:02

better dams, better shows, like things

58:04

that I'm like are pushing me

58:06

to want to be better, but

58:08

like that's, I don't know, it

58:10

probably helps that you're an artist.

58:12

I feel like that whole like

58:14

curve of your eye outpacing your

58:16

ability is like a real struggle

58:19

in trying to like constantly meet.

58:21

and grow and if you look

58:23

back it's like oh yeah I'm

58:25

way better than I was but

58:27

your eye grows as your skill

58:29

grows and so the ability to

58:31

it kind of it is sometimes

58:33

feel self-defeating yeah because it's like

58:35

it's way better than it was

58:37

but I want it to be

58:39

better still yeah still tell it's

58:41

not good or not as good

58:43

yeah right but yeah we do

58:45

it for the love the game

58:47

you know like we love to

58:49

I love to create like I've

58:51

seen the improvement like I know

58:53

that it's possible so And I

58:55

love that you related it to

58:58

art because that's something that I

59:00

always tell people. People will come

59:02

up with me and they're like,

59:04

oh, I wish I could draw,

59:06

like there's no way that I

59:08

could be like you, like you're

59:10

so talented. And I'm like, no,

59:12

like the only reason why I

59:14

am like this and like why

59:16

I can do this is because

59:18

I've been doing it since I

59:20

was a kid. And because I

59:22

didn't let my ability or like

59:24

my taste and my ability like

59:26

that difference to stop me. I

59:28

just kept practicing it. Kept getting

59:30

better. And I think that's true

59:32

with any skill. And I just

59:34

have like a lot of people

59:37

that I look up to, like

59:39

you were saying, like a lot

59:41

of podcasts that I'm like, I

59:43

want to be like that, and

59:45

I draw inspiration. So I just

59:47

kind of push myself to get

59:49

that low. Kind of like what

59:51

you were talking about, Kate. Obviously,

59:53

still having fun along the way.

59:55

Still appreciating the journey. That's a

59:57

huge hurdle, that's super hard to

59:59

get over. Well we're doing it

1:00:01

together. Yeah, we've definitely had challenges

1:00:03

with quality and just equipment issues

1:00:05

over the years. This year, I

1:00:07

think our biggest challenge was the

1:00:09

calendar. And it's saying a lot

1:00:11

because I live with most of

1:00:13

the people that I record with.

1:00:16

So it's like if we're running

1:00:18

into calendar issues, that's a serious

1:00:20

problem. Which is one of the

1:00:22

things I wasn't anticipating that having

1:00:24

high schoolers, having schedules that were

1:00:26

as busy, if not busier, than

1:00:28

my own. And then us just

1:00:30

having the time to sit down

1:00:32

and play and record is no

1:00:34

boy no. Then you're just getting

1:00:36

comfortable with, you know what? It's

1:00:38

what it is. It's like I

1:00:40

can't release every two weeks. We're

1:00:42

going to release as we can.

1:00:44

That's... Yeah, so that, yeah, it's,

1:00:46

yeah. It's, yeah. It's so real.

1:00:48

I don't think there's a single

1:00:50

D&D party that can't relate to

1:00:52

the calendar being like a primary

1:00:55

hurdle. There was a guy, I

1:00:57

am working on a monster stat

1:00:59

block for the calendar, because I

1:01:01

want to figure out, like, mechanically,

1:01:03

like, a trask level monster that,

1:01:05

like, a huge level 20 party.

1:01:07

You only fight it when everybody's

1:01:09

there. And you... Like, instead of

1:01:11

countesspelles, like, mass-minute cancellation, rights, more,

1:01:13

like, my kid's sick, or I

1:01:15

got sick, or I'm hung over,

1:01:17

or I just don't feel like

1:01:19

it. These are all going to

1:01:21

be, like, the names of the

1:01:23

special abilities, and... Yeah, it'll have

1:01:25

all the spells that... Bewholes, or...

1:01:27

that puts you to sleep. Right.

1:01:29

All the time stop spills and

1:01:32

like the banishment spells and banishment

1:01:34

spells. Yes. Oh man. It doesn't

1:01:36

even kill you after it does

1:01:38

that. It just goes, sorry, come

1:01:40

back later. Like there's no catharsis.

1:01:42

It just text you, I can't

1:01:44

make it this week. Yeah. That's

1:01:46

so great. Oh man. What a

1:01:48

good meal. My grandma died. I

1:01:50

thought you were just sharing that

1:01:52

randomly on this. I was like,

1:01:54

I was like, what happened to

1:01:56

Jordan? Like what, what are the,

1:01:58

like, because he's looking down at

1:02:00

something, I thought you like, it

1:02:02

just received the, like a message.

1:02:04

It was like unloading. You're a

1:02:06

man. my grandma down. Both my

1:02:08

grandma's are already there. The hardest

1:02:11

challenge we'd have had to, this

1:02:13

is your question, I just had

1:02:15

to remind myself my word. I

1:02:17

know I don't know, I don't.

1:02:19

Don't call him out like that

1:02:21

dude. Yeah. I'm sorry. I mean

1:02:23

it's so hard not to give

1:02:25

this answer but... I lost my

1:02:27

hard drive this year that has

1:02:29

everything on it. So all of

1:02:31

my audio is just gone. So

1:02:33

that's a big bummer. Brooke and

1:02:35

I moved this year off of

1:02:37

the hopes and dreams of having

1:02:39

it. We had an awesome studio

1:02:41

at our last house and now

1:02:43

we are moving to a bigger

1:02:45

and better house to hopefully have

1:02:47

a bigger and better and more

1:02:50

cool studio. and we're in the

1:02:52

process of making it because you

1:02:54

know it's so cool to build

1:02:56

a house that you've never I've

1:02:58

never built things I don't know

1:03:00

how to build things I'm a

1:03:02

podcaster and even at that I

1:03:04

just taught myself how to do

1:03:06

it so it's like how many

1:03:08

YouTube videos does it take to

1:03:10

build a house and I'm still

1:03:12

trying to figure it out and

1:03:14

we're in the thousands but I

1:03:16

don't know how anyone maintained a

1:03:18

house before YouTube right? Literally watching

1:03:20

a guy lay shingles on YouTube

1:03:22

and I'm like I never would

1:03:24

have understood this had I not

1:03:26

had a YouTube video to do

1:03:29

this Anyway, so but I packed

1:03:31

my hard drive in a box

1:03:33

in the move and the box

1:03:35

is gone And so now it's

1:03:37

just a fun old time of

1:03:39

I bought a new hard drive.

1:03:41

So that's cool. But that's been

1:03:43

my biggest challenge of this year

1:03:45

has been the loss of that

1:03:47

and also figuring out You should

1:03:49

probably have a backup hard drive.

1:03:51

So if you start a podcast,

1:03:53

backups are cool. Reach. To go

1:03:55

along with Move, I was going

1:03:57

to say that because we moved...

1:03:59

We don't have the same systems

1:04:01

in place to run a podcast that

1:04:04

we used to. I had my jobs,

1:04:06

Kate has his job, and we just

1:04:08

had a schedule every single day. There

1:04:10

are things that we got done, and

1:04:12

for a while we are running like

1:04:14

a pretty well-oiled machine for the most

1:04:16

part. And now it is all back

1:04:18

up in the air again, we're figuring

1:04:20

it out again, and I just feel

1:04:22

like that is so... So just reality

1:04:24

for what a lot of podcasters feel

1:04:26

where it's like you think you are

1:04:28

in a groove and then there's just

1:04:30

new things or you want to push

1:04:32

yourself and do more and there are

1:04:35

just always variables that are changing

1:04:37

and that makes life hard. Yeah and

1:04:39

like because of these things like we have

1:04:42

had for the first time to speak

1:04:44

on Curtis's point for the first

1:04:46

time in like pretty much since

1:04:48

the beginning of the podcast that

1:04:50

we just didn't have things to to

1:04:52

our content to produce. And so

1:04:54

we had a six month hiatus

1:04:56

after weekly releases for three, four

1:04:59

years. Yeah, four years a week,

1:05:01

we releases and then we went

1:05:03

on a nice six month hiatus.

1:05:06

And that was it hurt. It

1:05:08

physically hurt to not release our

1:05:10

podcast every week. Yeah. Did you at

1:05:12

least catch up on sleep? Kind of.

1:05:14

Yeah. How are you guys? What did

1:05:16

you lose? How are you doing? How

1:05:19

did you lose? I know. I lost

1:05:21

sleep over the house. So. I completely

1:05:23

get it. I completely get it. We,

1:05:26

the first time, so we did sneak

1:05:28

attack three years straight, just like that,

1:05:30

episode one episode every week, our first

1:05:32

hiatus that summer, like it was like,

1:05:35

like literally like a month and a

1:05:37

half in, I created Titans of All

1:05:39

Terror pocket. I like, I could not

1:05:41

handle the hiatus, so I made a new

1:05:44

pocket. Yep, yep, that level of crisis,

1:05:46

it'll get you. But our house

1:05:48

woes are nothing compared to Derek's

1:05:50

house woes. Yeah, I didn't have to

1:05:52

do it all myself. I don't know why

1:05:55

that those two words together is very funny

1:05:57

to me. I sound like I'm high and

1:05:59

I'm I apologize. But you're not full

1:06:01

of ones. But you're not full of

1:06:03

ones. But you're just going to be

1:06:06

so glad in a few years when

1:06:08

you've got it all set up and

1:06:10

set up again, right? Yeah. Being a

1:06:12

homeowner, like having a place that's yours

1:06:15

and having it set up the way

1:06:17

you want it is like the best.

1:06:19

But and it's just like podcasting it's

1:06:21

like you figure this stuff out and

1:06:24

it's you'll be amazed at how handy

1:06:26

you are at the end of it

1:06:28

and all of these new skills in

1:06:31

trades that you have at your disposal

1:06:33

that it's it gets so much easier

1:06:35

as time goes on. Like they're shingles

1:06:37

baby. There's something so ironic about you

1:06:40

saying like. I don't know how to

1:06:42

build a house, I've never built a

1:06:44

house, I'm just a podcaster and I

1:06:46

didn't even know how to podcast and

1:06:49

I had to teach myself how to

1:06:51

do that. Like in that moment you

1:06:53

define like how you're probably going to

1:06:55

solve this next problem. You're like, yeah,

1:06:58

man, you have the, you absolutely have

1:07:00

already proven yourself capable of dissecting something

1:07:02

you don't know how to do and

1:07:04

getting really good at it. And I

1:07:07

think that, you know what I mean?

1:07:09

Like it's, that process is a skill

1:07:11

that like not a lot of people

1:07:13

are comfortable learning. I have full confidence.

1:07:16

You guys, you guys rock. Thanks. Thank

1:07:18

you. All right, Josh, it's your two.

1:07:20

Mine's gonna tie in really closely with

1:07:22

the lessons learned because anybody who's familiar

1:07:25

with Titans will know that content output

1:07:27

has been terrible. We're in, I think,

1:07:29

Titans started in like 2018, 2019, and

1:07:31

we did like solid season one. One

1:07:34

of the best seasons of content I've

1:07:36

ever made of anything. I'm so proud

1:07:38

of season one of season one of

1:07:40

Titans. season two started super strong and

1:07:43

then the pandemic hit and we had

1:07:45

a baby at the exact same time

1:07:47

and so like the life went total

1:07:49

chaos my job situation shifted and I

1:07:52

think I we managed to get through

1:07:54

season two and I just was so

1:07:56

I so this is like part of

1:07:58

taking myself too seriously. I was so,

1:08:01

so freaking pig headed about like, it

1:08:03

has to look the same, it has

1:08:05

to feel the same, I have to

1:08:07

do it the same, and just trying

1:08:10

to force season three out, and season

1:08:12

three out, and season three starts rocky.

1:08:14

It's not as, I'm, it's not as

1:08:16

smooth as I wish it was, and

1:08:19

we kind of had to find our

1:08:21

footing. I ended up cashing out like

1:08:23

a ton of like a ton of

1:08:25

money to an editor to help. getting

1:08:28

slowly getting done for like over several

1:08:30

years and it's I only am finishing

1:08:32

it because I love the story and

1:08:34

the characters that we've made and it

1:08:37

doesn't feel right abandoning it and surprisingly

1:08:39

the audience still here like we still

1:08:41

have like people who like want to

1:08:43

hear like what happens and how it

1:08:46

finishes and so like that's a really

1:08:48

interesting thing to me but I I'm

1:08:50

a big believer in leave the messy

1:08:52

stuff up, like don't just hide like

1:08:55

the, like when you're making content, you're

1:08:57

constantly putting out stuff that will eventually

1:08:59

be very cringy. And I think sometimes

1:09:01

the instinct is to like go back

1:09:04

and erase all the cringe so that

1:09:06

you just have the polish for people

1:09:08

to see. But like if you look

1:09:10

at the Titans feed, there's tons of

1:09:13

like update and update on this and

1:09:15

honestly. there's a huge part of me

1:09:17

that hates that those exist that you

1:09:19

can go back and listen to me

1:09:22

awkwardly try and explain why nothing's coming

1:09:24

out or the other stuff that I'm

1:09:26

doing and at this point I've stopped

1:09:29

doing that I'm more or less have

1:09:31

decided I'm just gonna like like I

1:09:33

like not take myself to seriously not

1:09:35

be so afraid of the state of

1:09:38

the podcast and just finish it when

1:09:40

we finish it and not make it

1:09:42

a big deal and keep making new

1:09:44

stuff even though that thing isn't done

1:09:47

yet and not holding that like unfinished

1:09:49

thing against myself creatively creatively for anything

1:09:51

else. It's like the only person who's

1:09:53

really dogging me about that stuff is

1:09:56

me. And so, yeah, that's a very

1:09:58

vulnerable and like honest answer, but that's

1:10:00

the real one. Yeah, you've talked to

1:10:02

me about that before, Josh, and I

1:10:05

know you've talked to other folks about

1:10:07

it before, but it's hard as... Especially

1:10:09

when you had so many people who

1:10:11

were so in love with the story

1:10:14

and it's hard to, I mean, you

1:10:16

had a lot of people like, kind

1:10:18

of getting mad at you, like, on

1:10:20

social media. And it's hard to see

1:10:23

that. Because I don't even think people

1:10:25

got mad. They got sad. Like, they

1:10:27

just were like, yeah, that's a good

1:10:29

way to put it. I never really

1:10:32

got hate. I just got like, there's

1:10:34

five star reviews on iTunes where people

1:10:36

are like, please, please finish finish the

1:10:38

story. I'm not even giving you like

1:10:41

a star off. I just want you

1:10:43

to come back. Like, how do you

1:10:45

read that stuff and not like feel

1:10:47

devastated internally like you're a terrible creator?

1:10:50

And I literally like, I don't know

1:10:52

if it's something about being like fatherhood

1:10:54

or like the, it definitely has to

1:10:56

be like part of it is you

1:10:59

write site. value so quickly when you're

1:11:01

a parent like you go like man

1:11:03

there's stuff I thought mattered that does

1:11:05

doesn't matter like this is like this

1:11:08

child and what what and who they

1:11:10

are is like so significantly important that

1:11:12

all these other like all this that

1:11:14

like I've been weighing myself down with

1:11:17

is like I shouldn't waste my time

1:11:19

on that because it's taken away from

1:11:21

a lot of cool things that could

1:11:23

be happening. And so this whole like

1:11:26

jumping in with ICAS Fireball and there's

1:11:28

season two and joining Kate and Brooke

1:11:30

and like the crew there and I

1:11:32

guess it on another podcast I started

1:11:35

just playing D&D with people every chance

1:11:37

I could and it's been so like

1:11:39

freeing and exciting and it's kind of

1:11:41

the hump I'm getting over is like

1:11:44

coming back and finishing season three. and

1:11:46

not letting that be like a hindrance

1:11:48

to a future creative endeavors. Yeah. For

1:11:50

me, mine is similarly kind of emotional.

1:11:53

So at the beginning of this year

1:11:55

is when I decided that I was

1:11:57

going to put an indefinite hiatus on

1:11:59

my other show, How Not to DM,

1:12:02

which I'd worked on for three years.

1:12:04

I'd worked on it, I'd put a

1:12:06

ton on it, I'd put a ton

1:12:08

of work into it. It felt a

1:12:11

little bit like all of the effort

1:12:13

and work I'd put into the show

1:12:15

was going to waste if I was

1:12:17

just going to stop doing it. And

1:12:20

obviously that's not the case, right? Like

1:12:22

I made so many good friends, all

1:12:24

of you included. Kate was my very

1:12:27

first guest on my show, and I'm

1:12:29

just so glad that he said yes

1:12:31

to this random stranger, sending him, I

1:12:33

don't. Twitter or whatever. But anyway, you

1:12:36

know, I've made so many friends and

1:12:38

in the time I spent meant that

1:12:40

I was fully prepared when Neil and

1:12:42

I were chatting to say, hey, you

1:12:45

know what, Neil, you're feeling kind of

1:12:47

similarly burnt out and you need someone

1:12:49

to kind of get your creative juices

1:12:51

flowing again. And I feel that same

1:12:54

way, like, what if we do something

1:12:56

together? And we had a lot of

1:12:58

discussions about what that was going to

1:13:00

look like. Are we going to do

1:13:03

both shows or are we going to

1:13:05

combine the shows? And ultimately we just

1:13:07

settled on me moving over to the

1:13:09

DM's block. But yeah, it was something

1:13:12

I talked a lot about with my

1:13:14

wife, with friends, with Neil, and it

1:13:16

took a long time for me to

1:13:18

kind of work through it and decide

1:13:21

that that's what I was going to

1:13:23

do. And I had a lot of

1:13:25

folks who were kind of not upset,

1:13:27

but you know, also similarly similarly sad,

1:13:30

but you know, also similarly similarly sad

1:13:32

a good show. At the same time,

1:13:34

I feel like moving to the DM's

1:13:36

block means that I can keep doing

1:13:39

something that I love, but I have

1:13:41

someone else to kind of do it

1:13:43

with in Neil. And, you know, anybody

1:13:45

who really enjoyed what I had to

1:13:48

say, the little bits that I had

1:13:50

to say in between the awesome guests

1:13:52

that I had on my previous show

1:13:54

can come listen to that same stuff

1:13:57

here. So, anyway, that was the biggest

1:13:59

thing I had to overcome was kind

1:14:01

of like figuring out what my podcasting

1:14:03

future was going to look like. And

1:14:06

I'm glad that I met Neil a

1:14:08

while ago and we kind of linked

1:14:10

up in this way and I get

1:14:12

to continue doing something like this. And

1:14:15

yeah, that's something I'm super grateful for

1:14:17

in 2024. Very sweet. I wish Neil

1:14:19

was here to hear it eventually. He

1:14:21

knows. He knows how I feel. We've

1:14:24

talked a lot about it. I assume

1:14:26

he doesn't know how I feel. I'm

1:14:28

sorry Neil. That's how I feel. I'm

1:14:30

sorry Neil. That's how I feel. I'm

1:14:33

sorry. I'm very glad that you started

1:14:35

and that you had the confidence to

1:14:37

continue to go in. Because I think

1:14:39

that the hardest part about putting yourself.

1:14:42

to make mistakes in front of a

1:14:44

live audience of people who are just

1:14:46

rare in to tear you to shreds.

1:14:48

You know, so like. Yeah, that's like,

1:14:51

it's like, it's the same thing that

1:14:53

we were talking about. Like, you don't

1:14:55

get better unless you like just keep

1:14:57

trying, you know, and I think you

1:15:00

made a great decision. And, you know,

1:15:02

thank you. I feel like I made

1:15:04

the right decision as well. I think

1:15:06

it's interesting what I, when I. first

1:15:09

guess it on your show you had

1:15:11

just made a really hard decision with

1:15:13

like a piece of content you had

1:15:16

to pull as the guest had set

1:15:18

some stuff and it was at the

1:15:20

time was one of your like biggest

1:15:22

guests it was performing really well and

1:15:25

I that was what that was the

1:15:27

moment I knew like I could I

1:15:29

would enjoy being friends with you because

1:15:31

I was like that's a hard call

1:15:34

to make and it's it's cool to

1:15:36

see that that same like perspective play

1:15:38

out even even even uh even there

1:15:40

yeah I appreciate that Josh Right, this

1:15:43

next question, this is Josh's question. Who

1:15:45

is someone, as you were getting started

1:15:47

in creating podcasts or while you've been

1:15:49

doing it, who has helped kind of

1:15:52

make the space for you to be

1:15:54

creative like this or encouraged you to

1:15:56

keep going in podcasting that's really had

1:15:58

an impact on you? I have a

1:16:01

few answers, I think. One always is

1:16:03

not another D&D podcast. They are my

1:16:05

inspiration. And I listen to them every

1:16:07

week and I like, that's my goal.

1:16:10

they kind of keep me going. But

1:16:12

more seriously, I would say, honestly, Derek,

1:16:14

you are a huge reason, like, why,

1:16:16

yeah, for real. Like, why, I would

1:16:19

say you and then KEDARD are like

1:16:21

the biggest people who have helped me,

1:16:23

like, feel like this is something that

1:16:25

I can do and something that I

1:16:28

want to do. And I love collaborating

1:16:30

with you guys and talking to you

1:16:32

guys. I've had really good talks with

1:16:34

both of you about like. bouncing ideas

1:16:37

off of each other and it's just

1:16:39

it's very I love a collaborative environment

1:16:41

and you've kind of Both of you

1:16:43

guys have been like very receptive to

1:16:46

that and helpful for that because otherwise

1:16:48

I don't get anything done It's so

1:16:50

true. I've been wanting to do a

1:16:52

deed like do my own D&D group

1:16:55

forever and then when I saw Kate

1:16:57

Kate posted on his social media like

1:16:59

hey, I'm doing a D&D and I

1:17:01

slid into the DM so fast I

1:17:04

almost broke my leg, you know, like,

1:17:06

I want it. And he just like

1:17:08

made space for that and said like,

1:17:10

yeah, for sure. And I almost feel

1:17:13

like I'm, I take over too much

1:17:15

of like something that he did, but

1:17:17

I just love being in a collaborative

1:17:19

environment. And now even more with the,

1:17:22

with the network, like all of you

1:17:24

guys will be, are inspiring to me.

1:17:26

So I'm grateful to all of you

1:17:28

guys as well. That's the goal. That's

1:17:31

the goal. Yeah. One person that helps

1:17:33

me out quite a bit, just from

1:17:35

like an emotional and just like headspace

1:17:37

perspective, is a guy named David Ginsburg.

1:17:40

He does a podcast that's called Tales

1:17:42

from the Fandom. He's been doing it

1:17:44

for like 10 years now at this

1:17:46

point, and I think that he just

1:17:49

stumbled across Dungeons and Dragons and Daughters

1:17:51

because he was looking for, because he's

1:17:53

got twins, and I've got twins, and

1:17:55

there are... like within a couple of

1:17:58

months of age of each other and

1:18:00

I think that he was looking for

1:18:02

some sort of a podcast that he

1:18:04

could listen with his kids. And he

1:18:07

had already started his podcast and doing

1:18:09

interviews with other people from different areas

1:18:11

of science fiction and fantasy. Just like

1:18:14

his whole thing is that it's an

1:18:16

interview show that he just loves talking

1:18:18

to people that are really, really interested

1:18:20

and really passionate about all these different

1:18:23

fandoms that are out there. And when

1:18:25

he discovered a show, it's like, he

1:18:27

like immediately started raiding us, he started

1:18:29

following us, commenting and then out the

1:18:32

years, like just like two months ago.

1:18:34

I get another little nudge from him

1:18:36

recently of him recommending the podcast to

1:18:38

someone else on Instagram. So he's like,

1:18:41

oh, hey, you should check out this

1:18:43

show. This is one of my favorite

1:18:45

shows for like the last eight years

1:18:47

type of thing. And it's just, I

1:18:50

can't express how much like all of

1:18:52

those little things throughout all of the

1:18:54

years of just those little tidbits of

1:18:56

encouragement, I'm just checking in, I'm just

1:18:59

pointing one person our way a year

1:19:01

type of thing. probably taking him like

1:19:03

five minutes to do this stuff each

1:19:05

year, but it's like that five minutes

1:19:08

of time that he's spent, it's just

1:19:10

met the world to me. So again,

1:19:12

David Ginsburg tells from the fan down.

1:19:14

It's like, it's, yeah, fantastic human being.

1:19:17

My, my person, how could I not

1:19:19

put my wife on the spot as

1:19:21

the person who makes space for the,

1:19:23

the person who was like, hey, I've

1:19:26

one quit. put your game in 2020,

1:19:28

what if I just play a solo

1:19:30

session with you? Like, how do I

1:19:32

not put that at the forefront? Brooklyn

1:19:35

will always be my, the thing that

1:19:37

I am continually striving to have be

1:19:39

like my, she is my inspiration for

1:19:41

why I want to do this because

1:19:44

we get to work together on such

1:19:46

a cool project and it makes me

1:19:48

very very happy to do that to

1:19:50

throw somebody else out. I would say

1:19:53

my older brother has been really positive.

1:19:55

We joke that he is a yes

1:19:57

man in the sake that he's just

1:19:59

like, you wanna do that? You're gonna

1:20:02

do great. that. Like I love that

1:20:04

for you and I need that in

1:20:06

my life man because every decision I

1:20:08

make I'm like no that's gonna suck

1:20:11

like that's not gonna be good at

1:20:13

all and then Alex comes in and

1:20:15

he's like no it's gonna be great

1:20:17

and you're gonna kill it and I'm

1:20:20

like thank you like I needed that

1:20:22

and so like his voice of reason

1:20:24

I had the the wonderful opportunity also

1:20:26

to work with Josh for a little

1:20:29

bit and he gave me the perspective

1:20:31

of like Do this because you want

1:20:33

to do this. Don't do this because

1:20:35

of like anybody else. Like this is

1:20:38

your show, this is your thing that

1:20:40

you were doing, like have it be

1:20:42

your thing. And so like I've kind

1:20:44

of, I've taken a lot of what

1:20:47

Josh, Josh's advice was to me of

1:20:49

just like... allowing it to be what

1:20:51

I, allowing the podcast, knocked prone to

1:20:53

be what I want it to be,

1:20:56

or even more than just the podcast,

1:20:58

allowing knocked prone to be a social

1:21:00

media page, and that's it. Or allowing

1:21:02

knocked prone to be a thing that

1:21:05

I do with my wife, and that's

1:21:07

it. And like, I don't have to

1:21:09

worry about everything else, because it makes

1:21:12

me happy. And it makes my wife,

1:21:14

I think, happy. So. For sure. I

1:21:16

had a feeling our answers were going

1:21:18

to have some crossover. You're very nice

1:21:21

to include me in that actually. But

1:21:23

I absolutely 100% have to say Alec,

1:21:25

Kate's older brother, has just been like...

1:21:27

I don't even think he understands the

1:21:30

impact that he's had on our ability

1:21:32

to be able to do something that

1:21:34

feels so bold sometimes, you know, running

1:21:36

your own show and having it be

1:21:39

about D&D. There's absolutely been naysayers, negative

1:21:41

people in our lives that have just

1:21:43

been like, this is ridiculous, like I

1:21:45

don't know if you understand just how

1:21:48

silly this is. And then people maybe

1:21:50

who aren't as judgmental, maybe they maybe

1:21:52

they're not so like forthright with with

1:21:54

their negative. thoughts, but also just people

1:21:57

who, you know, they're not holding space,

1:21:59

they're not encouraging, they're not like being

1:22:01

a cheerleader, and Alec is never not

1:22:03

once, not been that person. Like, even

1:22:06

when he had bad days, he's like,

1:22:08

yeah, man, my day is stuck in

1:22:10

right now, but like, you go dude,

1:22:12

like, and literally there's been nobody else

1:22:15

in our lives that I think has

1:22:17

held space for that like Alec has,

1:22:19

and just how like consistently encouraging that's

1:22:21

been, is like, like, like, like, like,

1:22:24

amazing, amazing. That is awesome. I played

1:22:26

once with Alec and it was so

1:22:28

much fun and I will do it

1:22:30

again at the drop of a hat.

1:22:33

He definitely seems like the person you

1:22:35

bought at your corner for like any

1:22:37

kind of thing that you're taking on.

1:22:39

I mean easily like Barna and my

1:22:42

wife takes the cake with all of

1:22:44

that. You know, I think not a

1:22:46

dissimilar story to like to Kate and

1:22:48

Brooke is the like. fact that she

1:22:51

wasn't into D&D, I kind of slowly,

1:22:53

you know, whittled away at like the,

1:22:55

you know, the edges of that until

1:22:57

she finally tried it and then fell

1:23:00

in love with it and we got

1:23:02

to share it and like do shows

1:23:04

together and all that. But even in

1:23:06

a deeper perspective, like the, even a

1:23:09

miss having kids, like, and all of

1:23:11

the, like, the very serious real pressures

1:23:13

about stability and wanting to have that

1:23:15

stuff. I've never felt once like she

1:23:18

was interested in compromising like my creative

1:23:20

interests and like the pursuit of making

1:23:22

this kind of content online and it

1:23:24

was she's never belittled it and she

1:23:27

like she's very educated she works in

1:23:29

public schools she's a you know she's

1:23:31

she's a counselor like like and and

1:23:33

like so she learned psychology and all

1:23:36

the stuff and like but it's the

1:23:38

most reassuring thing I would drop Every

1:23:40

D&D podcast like actual play pursuit that

1:23:42

I have if if she told me

1:23:45

it didn't seem like the right move

1:23:47

You know what I mean? Like that's

1:23:49

the kind of level of like of

1:23:51

input I rely on from her as

1:23:54

like my life partner and the fact

1:23:56

that she's always been very like way

1:23:58

more interested in knowing like like it

1:24:00

doesn't matter to me like what is

1:24:03

the what is the level of this

1:24:05

and like giving me the room to

1:24:07

kind of explore and create and figure

1:24:10

it out and and not have to

1:24:12

fit like a very picture perfect mold

1:24:14

I mean I I left a very

1:24:16

stable job as more or less like

1:24:19

the air apparent of a local church

1:24:21

to like to be a freelance you

1:24:23

know, video editor for people and just

1:24:25

make scrape, scrape money together through odd

1:24:28

jobs and that was a huge move.

1:24:30

And then it turned out really well.

1:24:32

Like I am a Nama professional podcast

1:24:34

producer and I work in the tech

1:24:37

space, like with tech companies and stuff,

1:24:39

making really awesome podcasts and editing stuff.

1:24:41

And then the D&D stuff is now

1:24:43

like, I'm doing on the side, but

1:24:46

it's... It's, I don't think any of

1:24:48

that journey would have ever happened. Even

1:24:50

if, even if, even with sneak attack,

1:24:52

being as successful as it was, even

1:24:55

with all that, like, if she hadn't

1:24:57

first, like, made room and made me

1:24:59

feel comfortable being this weird creative dude

1:25:01

that I am, I don't think, yeah,

1:25:04

I don't think we'd, I don't think

1:25:06

I'd be as happy, I don't think

1:25:08

it's, it's, it's really, it's, I, I've

1:25:10

endless amount of gratitude for, for, for,

1:25:13

for Kelsey. And she had to endure

1:25:15

some real crap online. People were not,

1:25:17

in some of those early days, a

1:25:19

sneak attack. Like, I like to think

1:25:22

that the D&D community online has grown

1:25:24

and gotten a lot more welcoming and

1:25:26

open, but like, I don't know, 2015,

1:25:28

2016, people did not like a woman

1:25:31

having strong opinions on an audio podcast.

1:25:33

And we had to endure a lot

1:25:35

of crap because of that night. Yeah,

1:25:37

she's super, super, super strong and been

1:25:40

super awesome. I'm listening through because I

1:25:42

had found it years after it had

1:25:44

started, maybe like three years after you'd

1:25:46

started and I was just binging through

1:25:49

and I hit that part. I was

1:25:51

just like, oh, like my heart broke

1:25:53

hearing about how poorly some people... we're

1:25:55

treating our, it's just super sad. Yeah,

1:25:58

it's wild thing back, like, yeah, there

1:26:00

were days we ended up, like, I

1:26:02

remember the five of us sitting at

1:26:04

the table, and it felt like we

1:26:07

were maybe just gonna stop all together

1:26:09

because of some of that. But yeah,

1:26:11

the fact that, like, man, yeah, that

1:26:13

honestly, more than even just being part

1:26:16

of that podcast stuff, for real though,

1:26:18

that having a partner who gives you

1:26:20

the space to pursue your creative interests

1:26:22

is like super, like super, super, super

1:26:25

encouraging. Yeah, yeah, She definitely is one

1:26:27

to give me the permission to pursue

1:26:29

stuff that I find interesting and fulfilling.

1:26:31

You know, she's always, when I was

1:26:34

talking with her a bunch about whether

1:26:36

I would keep doing my show or,

1:26:38

you know, if it was time to

1:26:40

hang up the mic and headphones as

1:26:43

it were, you know, she was definitely

1:26:45

the one to kind of like, well,

1:26:47

you know, are you still having fun

1:26:49

with it? Are you still getting out

1:26:52

what you want? I guess what is

1:26:54

your end goal and are you achieving

1:26:56

it kind of thing. So she definitely

1:26:59

was a level head to talk to

1:27:01

you. Not that I was like, you

1:27:03

know, changing my mind constantly or anything.

1:27:05

But yeah, she just always had the

1:27:08

right perspective as we were talking about

1:27:10

it. And she's just that kind of

1:27:12

person. Well, I'd like to shout out,

1:27:14

Josh was one of my first guests

1:27:17

on my first show. I was blown

1:27:19

away that someone of his caliber would

1:27:21

say yes to. Someone of mine, but

1:27:23

the funny thing is the moment we

1:27:26

got on we were just peers You

1:27:28

know it was never like okay Josh

1:27:30

like I'm so glad you're giving me

1:27:32

some time to talk to you You

1:27:35

know it was it was nothing like

1:27:37

that and I had been listening to

1:27:39

sneak attack for a while and I

1:27:41

had told myself multiple times, you know,

1:27:44

I think Josh and I would be

1:27:46

friends like You know how you do

1:27:48

that with celebrities and stuff you watch

1:27:50

on TV and stuff but I was

1:27:53

doing it with this this person from

1:27:55

a podcast and I was like, Josh,

1:27:57

I'd be friends. And then when we

1:27:59

got on to record, we ended up

1:28:02

talking for three hours. And I took

1:28:04

an hour of it and made the

1:28:06

episode out of it, but middle two

1:28:08

hours was just like talking about everything

1:28:11

from us having a child

1:28:13

around the same time to,

1:28:15

you know, religion and whatever

1:28:17

else. And, you know, it

1:28:19

was great though. And Children

1:28:21

and religion, that's the whole,

1:28:23

that's all of it guys.

1:28:25

But yeah it was just

1:28:27

so reassuring to me like

1:28:29

that everyone else who was

1:28:31

doing stuff that I was

1:28:33

doing was like me and

1:28:35

you know I could there

1:28:37

was space for me to

1:28:39

keep doing this thing you know

1:28:41

it wasn't like people were going to

1:28:43

treat me like I don't know I

1:28:46

wasn't big enough to have them on as

1:28:48

a guest or anything like that

1:28:50

it was just very reassuring to

1:28:52

me like that people are generally

1:28:55

good and that it's you know, this

1:28:57

is something worth doing. Also,

1:28:59

I want to shout out, Neil, again, I

1:29:01

know we talked about him last

1:29:03

question, but he and I have

1:29:06

a text thread that we're just

1:29:08

constant, like we probably message each

1:29:10

other daily, if not daily, like

1:29:13

four or five times a week,

1:29:15

and we're talking about everything. We've

1:29:17

got kids similar. We have kids

1:29:19

at similar ages, and we have a

1:29:22

lot of, you know. I don't know

1:29:24

about similar life experiences, but we have

1:29:26

a similar world view, I guess you

1:29:28

could say. And it's just so nice

1:29:31

to have someone else to work with.

1:29:33

I was super envious of Kate and

1:29:35

Brooke, just the dynamic, the most

1:29:37

dynamic of duos. You know, they

1:29:39

always had someone to rely on.

1:29:41

I was jealous of Jordan and

1:29:43

Kate and kind of doing it on

1:29:45

my own, had taken a toll. So

1:29:47

I'm super glad that Neil and I

1:29:50

are able to work on stuff together.

1:29:52

It just makes it so much easier,

1:29:54

so much more fulfilling. Love bouncing ideas

1:29:56

off of him and what we can

1:29:58

make together. That was... as someone who

1:30:00

like was familiar with both of

1:30:03

you like outside of each of

1:30:05

your shows like when when you

1:30:07

tell me like when I when

1:30:10

I learned of like the transition

1:30:12

that was happening it was one

1:30:14

of the most shocking but also

1:30:16

like this makes so much sense

1:30:19

yeah kind of moves it's so

1:30:21

cool to see you to collaborate

1:30:23

and like kind of I don't

1:30:26

know like reign like the the

1:30:28

flame of this really cool channel

1:30:30

that you guys have and the

1:30:32

like the like the the position

1:30:35

it holds in the like the

1:30:37

DD podcasting space. Yeah it's funny

1:30:39

I when I first followed Neil

1:30:42

on Twitter I remember I think

1:30:44

he deemed me first but it

1:30:46

was immediately like well let's let's

1:30:48

you know dispense with the pleasantries

1:30:51

of like when do you want