0:00

Welcome to the erotic

0:02

awakening podcast for this

0:04

week's podcast. We have

0:07

edited the class that

0:09

we taught for a

0:12

group last week on

0:14

advanced polyamery, balancing new

0:17

relationship energy, and mature

0:19

relationship energy. We will

0:21

be back next week. It is

0:23

93 here right now. So

0:25

craziness. We left the Chicago

0:28

at 40. 40 degrees and we

0:30

write here it's 90 exactly

0:32

yeah, but we are ready to

0:34

go so I am done My

0:36

pronouns are she her and Dan's

0:38

are he him fabulous and I

0:41

just turned up my microphone so

0:43

you guys should be able to

0:45

hear me a little better now.

0:47

Awesome. That's kind of cool.

0:50

So today is M-R-E-N-R-E and

0:52

M-R-E so new relationship energy

0:54

and mature relationship energy

0:57

And today is going to be

0:59

a little different than a little

1:01

different on how we have

1:03

taught this before because we are

1:05

actually getting ready to this RV. We'll

1:07

go on the market on Friday

1:09

and there's three of us that

1:12

are going to be moving into an

1:14

Airbnb because this RV is not big

1:16

enough for three of us. So mature

1:18

relationship here. Dan and I have

1:21

been together for 25 years at

1:23

this point. and his other partner

1:25

Sean is coming in and they've

1:27

been long distance for two years

1:29

and she has been right around the corner

1:31

from us for the last five months in

1:33

a park model in the same RV park

1:35

that we are in. So yeah we are

1:38

coming off the road for the moment because

1:40

three of us can't live here. We're gonna

1:42

stay a little steady in Yuma Arizona

1:44

during the heat of the summer but

1:46

we are also gonna start traveling again.

1:48

We just don't know what it

1:51

looks like. So... N-R-E and M-R-E,

1:53

yes. And then in Chicago was

1:55

with Dan's other other

1:57

partner who lives in

1:59

Chicago. yeah, a lot's going on.

2:01

And people often talk about, you know,

2:04

I'm having challenges with the new relationship

2:06

energy or NRE, and how do I

2:08

deal with that, and how do I

2:10

work with that, and I'm an existing

2:13

relationship, and suddenly he's all twitterated about

2:15

this new person, and it feels like

2:17

they're getting all the energy, they're getting

2:19

all the sex, and a lot of

2:22

times what you'll find with the new

2:24

relationship is you're still in that blue

2:26

cloud, blue cloud, is for a while.

2:28

And that's a very real thing. I

2:31

mean, when, when, when, I use Tracy

2:33

as an example, Tracy's the Chicago girlfriend,

2:35

when me and Tracy get together for

2:37

a weekend, it's about eating good food

2:40

and experiences and getting caught up on

2:42

YouTube shorts that I want to show

2:44

her and having intimate time together. And

2:46

then when he comes home, it's bills

2:49

and the dog and the RV and

2:51

hey, the tanks need to be changed.

2:53

And you know, and then it's like...

2:55

Oh wait, you and I haven't actually

2:58

gone out on a date together in

3:00

a while. Can we go out on

3:02

a date? That would be fun. There's

3:04

fun things I want to do out

3:07

there as well, or you want to

3:09

do. And then some date nights, we

3:11

end up podcasting. So we have the

3:13

erotic awakening podcast. And with Dan floating

3:16

back and forth between two houses at

3:18

this moment, sometimes date nights, the only

3:20

night we have for podcasting. So we

3:22

have to be really... careful at remembering

3:25

that we still need dates even after

3:27

25 years. And it's super funny, you

3:29

may be familiar with our book, The

3:31

Polyamery Toolkit, and suddenly, you know, that's

3:34

been great for the past five, six

3:36

years, but suddenly we're entering into this

3:38

new situation where I'm going to be

3:41

managing my mature relationship energy that I

3:43

had with Dawn, my new relationship energy

3:45

that I had with Sean, but under

3:47

the same household now, and the fun

3:50

part is... we've already decided you know

3:52

it's really important so one of the

3:54

things that it's important for your mature

3:56

relationship energy. Dawn just said, it's important

3:59

that you go out on dates still,

4:01

right? And once you've been with somebody

4:03

for a long time, it can easily

4:05

become a... You forget about that. You

4:08

forget about going on dates and things

4:10

like that. But the fun part is,

4:12

Sean and Dawn are pretty similar. So,

4:14

anything I do with one? The other

4:17

one is going to be like, oh,

4:19

I would have loved to have done

4:21

that. Right, so it's not like when

4:23

I started dating Big D, right, when

4:26

I started dating Big D, he was

4:28

a new relationship energy and loved things

4:30

like roller coasters and dropping out of

4:32

the sky at that ride in, what

4:35

was it, King's Island? Yeah, the one

4:37

in Cincinnati. So we would do things

4:39

like that, and Dan's like, oh, good,

4:41

someone else will do that with her,

4:44

you know, so that sort of sort

4:46

of thing. Whereas, so you were fine

4:48

when I went off, Big D's wife

4:50

was fine when we went off because

4:53

she doesn't like doing those things either.

4:55

So, you know, we had some differences.

4:57

Whereas, like you said, me and Sean,

4:59

we like doing a lot of the

5:02

same things. So trying to balance that

5:04

is, we're going to see how that

5:06

works. And this isn't necessarily a power

5:08

exchange class, but for those that do

5:11

practice power exchange, even if it's straight

5:13

up polyamery, one of the things. that

5:15

I like to have happen is for

5:17

somebody to bring me a cup of

5:20

coffee. That's just a pleasant experience. Did

5:22

you see how that worked out well

5:24

today? I did not. You didn't notice

5:26

that. I noticed that you brought me

5:29

a cup of coffee. Right. So, one

5:31

of the things that's been happening is

5:33

that there is more space at the

5:35

park model than there is here in

5:38

this 30-foot box. So Dan moved his

5:40

office, which is usually right over there

5:42

for a little strip of desk there

5:45

that he's been working at for the

5:47

last four years. He's been going to

5:49

the park model, which has more space

5:51

for his office, which means he's there

5:54

more of the time. Which means Sean

5:56

gets to get his coffee more of

5:58

the time and gets to do... way

6:00

more things for you now while I'm

6:03

here working. Today we drove back, we

6:05

got, Sean was here and we came

6:07

back from Chicago, we got to the

6:09

park model, we all snuggled together

6:11

in the same bed because she

6:13

missed us, we missed her, and

6:15

then while she was going out

6:17

to the grill to get chicken,

6:20

I fixed your coffee. I've not

6:22

fixed your coffee in that park

6:24

model in the last couple of

6:26

months. because Sean does that most

6:29

of the time and her and

6:31

I have just started to learn how

6:33

to flow back and forth and not

6:35

take things personally. I have not been

6:37

in the mode like I used to

6:40

in the past of oh my god

6:42

someone else is getting your coffee but

6:44

that's my job that's what I like

6:46

to do and we've been able to

6:49

make that work and then today I

6:51

was like, uh-oh, she's busy doing this

6:53

thing. You need coffee after that trip.

6:55

I'm going to get you coffee. I'm

6:57

not going to make a big deal

6:59

out of it. And then we'll see

7:01

what happened. And it went fine. So

7:03

that was really cool. And that's one

7:06

of the ideas of, you know, don't

7:08

take things personally when I have

7:10

this one partner that's doing a

7:12

thing for me and another partner wants

7:14

to do the thing for me. It's

7:16

not that I prefer the other. You

7:18

have to find that when

7:21

you're balancing that new relationship

7:23

and mature relationship energy those

7:25

partners have to be able to flow in

7:27

and out of things One of the things

7:30

that your mature relationship has

7:32

is stories So we can sit around

7:34

the table the three of us. Yeah,

7:36

and we'll tell story after story about

7:38

the time this thing and that the

7:40

we as and me and you yeah, because

7:42

25 years right and we did this thing

7:44

and it's very easy for that

7:47

new partner to feel like an

7:49

outsider. And, well, they are in

7:51

that regard, they are an outsider.

7:53

They're outside of those stories that

7:55

you're telling. The trick is, and

7:57

this comes back to this idea of...

8:00

not taking things personally, but also

8:02

the other tool here is being

8:04

able to speak the unspeakable,

8:06

meaning that when we're sitting around

8:09

the table, we have a

8:11

policy that there's nothing we're not

8:13

allowed to talk about. And if

8:15

that brings up emotional states,

8:17

then we deal with a unit

8:19

with those emotional states. There are

8:21

some things that we don't discuss

8:24

at the table simply because it's

8:26

rude or inappropriate, like I don't

8:28

bring up... the I will mention

8:30

that Don and I had sucks. I

8:33

don't bring up what position, how long,

8:35

all that kind of jazz, right? That's

8:37

just something, unless it's a necessary

8:39

conversation to have. Indeed, but

8:41

I do want to throw out there

8:43

that Dan and I, when we share,

8:45

we share our experiences and we're storytellers.

8:48

So you're going to get a lot

8:50

of stories from us and we're used

8:52

to telling stories. With that in mind,

8:54

keep in mind. Everybody's Polly

8:56

is different. Just because we're talking about

8:58

our Polly being a certain way does

9:01

not mean that is the right way

9:03

to do it. So right now, Dan

9:05

is going to be having two nesting

9:07

partners. He actually has two nesting partners.

9:10

Next week, we're gonna all start cahabitating.

9:12

We have done Polly in many, many,

9:14

many different forms over the years. We

9:16

have lived with another one of your

9:19

partners where the three of us got

9:21

a house together. and you guys were

9:23

together for 12 years. We lived

9:25

together for six years. He has

9:27

had other partners that have been

9:30

long distance. I've had other partners.

9:32

So we have all kinds of

9:34

arrangements going on here. There's

9:37

also parallel polyamery where the,

9:39

let's say, Dan had two

9:41

partners, but us two partners don't

9:44

really interact. We know about each

9:46

other, but we don't really do

9:48

things together, stuff like that parallel

9:50

polyamery. That is perfectly acceptable as

9:53

well. So just want to throw

9:55

that out there. If you're doing

9:57

polyamery different than what we're talking

9:59

about. about with sitting at the

10:01

table sharing everything or opening it

10:04

together. If yours is different, that's

10:06

perfectly fine. I just don't share

10:08

that. We could go through just

10:10

polyamery definitions for hours on end

10:13

and we're not going to, right? What

10:15

we want you to do is hear

10:17

some ideas, here's some tools, and say

10:19

that sounds valuable, let's give it a shot.

10:21

And if it works, then great, start

10:24

using it. So the three definitions

10:26

we have done, no, we've only

10:28

done too. We did a new

10:30

relationship energy, NRE, mature relationship energy,

10:33

MRE, polyamory, multiple loving

10:35

relationships, three definitions. And

10:38

a fourth one, nesting partners. Oh,

10:40

we did. Oh, we're all caught up,

10:42

nesting partners. We have, we're sharing something

10:44

beyond the relationship, or what's a

10:46

better way to put nesting partners?

10:49

Nesting usually means living

10:51

together. For us, there are two

10:54

houses, but you are living with

10:56

both of us, and we're combining

10:58

finances, and we're combining bills, and

11:00

the three of us are making

11:03

relationship and financial decisions and moving

11:05

forward decisions together. That's a

11:07

great way to put it. So whereas,

11:09

when Big D hit the road, they just

11:11

hit four years, him and his wife, so

11:13

a couple days ago. So when Big

11:16

D and his wife decided to become

11:18

full-time RVers, I'm not a nesting partner.

11:20

I don't get vote in that. You

11:22

know, they keep me up to date,

11:24

they let me know what's going on,

11:26

but I don't get vote. That is

11:28

their relationship. Another definition. I'm a

11:31

secondary in that relationship. Not

11:33

everybody's going to use that kind

11:35

of language. Big D and I

11:37

do. He's my secondary, I'm his

11:39

secondary, his wife is his

11:41

primary. Like I said, not all

11:44

people use that language. So... know who you're

11:46

talking with, you know, to see

11:48

if that's acceptable in your relationship

11:50

or whatever. One of the neat

11:52

things to have was, Don and I

11:54

just came back, we run around, presenting

11:57

around the nation, we just came back

11:59

from Kink. college, Sean didn't go

12:01

with us, and it was really neat

12:03

to come back and Sean say, I

12:05

miss you guys, right? Obviously she misses

12:07

me. I'm her partner, but in

12:09

this combined sort of situation,

12:11

Don has some partnership with Sean

12:14

as well. We might be getting

12:16

a little bit off topic, but it's

12:18

important to us because you're our

12:20

counselors right now as we work

12:22

out, how this is going to

12:24

work for us. Well, I also want to

12:26

throw out there. We can talk for hours.

12:28

but we just came back from a

12:30

very long trip, so we'd prefer not

12:32

to. So if you guys have questions,

12:34

feel free to throw some questions in

12:37

there, and we'll try to answer them

12:39

as we can. Remember, we teach

12:41

from experience, so if we don't

12:43

have that experience, we could give our

12:45

best guess, but... Yeah, but chances are

12:47

we're going to give you experience,

12:49

and somebody over the weekend asked

12:52

me, so how do you handle switching? I said,

12:54

I don't, I don't know, but I know who

12:56

you can ask, right? We have our

12:58

mature relationship. We take that opportunity.

13:01

One of the weird and

13:03

interesting things about a new

13:05

relationship, at least in my experience, is

13:07

you have a lot of anniversaries. Oh,

13:09

it's the first time we went out

13:11

on a date. Oh, it's the first

13:14

time that we, you know, oh, it's

13:16

our one-year anniversary. Oh, it's the first

13:18

time we had pizza. Where Dawn and

13:20

I, we don't celebrate holidays

13:22

at all, and we don't

13:24

celebrate anniversaries much. a kind

13:26

of a combined. Yeah, we

13:28

have a wedding anniversary in December

13:30

and a collaring anniversary in March,

13:33

and we moved in together in

13:35

August. So we kind of do

13:37

something around February that says, hey,

13:40

we're still together. It's not one

13:42

thing or another, because then we'd be

13:44

celebrating all the time. So, oh,

13:46

so we do have a question,

13:48

and this is actually kind of

13:50

a good one. Again, let us know

13:53

if we start breaking up again. We've only

13:55

got the two networks. We'll have to we'll have

13:57

to flip back and forth if needed. We're also

13:59

in the Mexican border with a VPN

14:01

running, so it can get kind of,

14:03

kind of wanky. Anyway, so the question,

14:06

hanky, wanky, something like that. Let's see,

14:08

Dan, can you scroll up? That's your

14:10

machine. I can't do it. So how

14:13

do I make sure that my needs

14:15

are being, no? That's for me. How

14:17

do you make sure your needs are

14:20

being met by Dan? How do you

14:22

advocate for yourself when you feel like

14:24

they aren't being met? That's a great

14:27

question. Yeah. Now, one of the things

14:29

that I try to keep in mind

14:31

is that I'm also polyamorous, right? So

14:34

Dan doesn't have to meet my needs

14:36

all the time. That was one of

14:38

the things that we had to have,

14:41

you know, a talk about if my

14:43

if some of my needs are not

14:45

getting met. Now, we do talk a

14:47

lot of conversations. We speak the unspeakable,

14:50

we have communication methods, things like that,

14:52

but he's not responsible for meeting all

14:54

of my needs, right? I still have

14:57

to make sure that I figure out

14:59

how to meet my needs, and sometimes

15:01

that means dating other people or trying

15:04

other things, right? Now, with that in

15:06

mind, like I said, we communicate all

15:08

the time. Right now we have Sunday

15:11

meetings where all three of us communicate.

15:13

and we speak up about our needs.

15:15

And sometimes, I mean, now Dan and

15:18

I are like 98% compatible. He doesn't

15:20

do roller coasters, and I don't do...

15:22

What do I not do that you

15:25

do? Glutin? Improv. Improv. Right. I don't

15:27

do improv. I may start doing improv

15:29

sometime soon, because I think it's fun,

15:31

but it also terrifies as hell out

15:34

of me. If it's a topic I'm

15:36

familiar with, I can talk about it

15:38

all day long. If it's like... Hey,

15:41

your subject is yellow. Go. Just, I

15:43

freeze. So, it's hard for me to

15:45

do. But, otherwise, we talk about our

15:48

needs back and forth. And we literally

15:50

have a Sunday meeting that we do

15:52

that has, this is what we're going

15:55

to talk about here, this is what

15:57

we're going to talk about here, look

15:59

at the calendar, hey are there any

16:02

needs, you know, things like that. So

16:04

that has been very beneficial for us

16:06

and especially since Sean came in, and

16:08

then Dan modified the meeting so that

16:11

it reflects not just me and him,

16:13

but the three of us and what's

16:15

needed for that meeting. So if, okay,

16:18

now with that being said being said.

16:20

If, let's say, I think he is

16:22

spending too much time with Sean or

16:25

reverse that, not enough time with me,

16:27

it's not too much time with Sean,

16:29

it's not enough time with me. I

16:32

can speak up and I can say,

16:34

so Dan, I know you've got the

16:36

pink cloud going again and I know

16:39

you want to spend time with Sean,

16:41

but I'm feeling a bit left out,

16:43

especially being over here in the RV

16:46

by myself. Could I get an extra

16:48

night this week or something like that,

16:50

right? Or can we go out and

16:52

just get some pork belly? I just

16:55

want to go out and spend some

16:57

time with you. I miss you. You

16:59

know, something like that, as things have

17:02

changed. Sean's allowed to do the same

17:04

thing. Sean, what was it, the other

17:06

night before we went to Chicago? It

17:09

was Dan's night to stay here. And

17:11

that morning, I like it when we

17:13

can just sit here and have coffee

17:16

and catch up on email and just

17:18

be together, not necessarily doing anything. Well,

17:20

Sean was feeling sick. So she texted

17:23

Dan and she's like, I know it's

17:25

your morning over there, but I'm feeling

17:27

really crappy and I would love to

17:30

have you over here. And Dan sat

17:32

down and said, so Dawn, Sean is

17:34

sick, she needs me. We're going to

17:36

have all weekend together in Chicago, you

17:39

know, teaching and doing our thing, I'm

17:41

going to go over and spend time

17:43

with Sean. And one of the keys,

17:46

another tool that everybody in a relationship

17:48

with me has to understand is the

17:50

difference is... I have a specific definition

17:53

for I want and I need. If

17:55

you tell me you want something... I'll

17:57

say, oh, okay, you want that thing.

18:00

And I may or may not make

18:02

it a priority for me, right? I

18:04

want to spend more, I want to,

18:07

I want you to go with me.

18:09

I want you to go with me.

18:11

I want you to go with me.

18:14

I want you to go with me

18:16

when I go to get my toes

18:18

done, right? I will hear that as

18:20

a want. I will balance it in

18:23

my head like, well, I don't really

18:25

want to do that. But maybe I'll

18:27

do it. Maybe I'll do it. I

18:30

want you to spend the night with

18:32

me tonight, then I'm going to look

18:34

at everything and say, well, I haven't

18:37

really, I haven't seen Sean for like

18:39

five days. So I appreciate that you

18:41

want that, but I'm going to spend

18:44

the night over with Sean. But I

18:46

still may speak up and go. And

18:48

remember, I usually crash on Tuesdays, so

18:51

if I get a little bit emotional,

18:53

please keep it in mind. It's not

18:55

because I'm jealous that you're over there

18:58

with Sean. It's because I'm feeling sin

19:00

and emotional and I'm packing up the

19:02

RV and I may need a little

19:04

more time than usual. And that's the

19:07

other word, right? So want is want

19:09

but need in my house. We understand

19:11

that need is a big fucking deal.

19:14

Need is not a light word for

19:16

us. If Don says I need to

19:18

have you in this RV tonight, that's

19:21

the end of the conversation. I make

19:23

it happen. Now, we make sure that

19:25

we are not being passive aggressive. I

19:28

mean, we really try to be a

19:30

dog about this, so we work on

19:32

not being passive aggressive. We work and

19:35

really pay attention to not being manipulative.

19:37

I don't use the word need often,

19:39

and sometimes I actually have to really

19:41

look at that and go, you know,

19:44

am I just being childish? Am I

19:46

taking something personally? Am I? You have

19:48

to be really self-aware. When it comes

19:51

to... In any relationship, you need to

19:53

be self-aware and learn about yourself. And

19:55

that just comes with time and experience.

19:58

And with Polyamery, exponentially so, because every...

20:00

body reacts I'm still learning Sean and

20:02

I keep I keep comparing

20:04

her to other partners he's had

20:07

when I see a pattern going on and

20:09

she's had to tell me I'm not

20:11

that other person you know and

20:13

she's done the same with me

20:15

if I start acting a certain

20:18

way she's like oh you know

20:20

my meta my metamorph my partner's

20:22

partner used to act like that

20:24

too and that's what this meant

20:26

so Her and I are having to

20:28

get to learn each other as

20:30

individuals in this relationship. I feel like

20:32

I went off on the tangent. I'm glad

20:35

you did. I had a little cough

20:37

there, so you saved me from everybody

20:39

knowing that. So Medamore is another

20:41

term, partner's partner. So Sean is

20:43

my metamore. She's not my partner. We

20:45

do not have a romantic relationship.

20:48

She is Dan's other partner, so we

20:50

are metamores. I think

20:52

we need a different word,

20:55

though, when you live in

20:57

the same house, then just

20:59

metamore. I think so, too.

21:01

I think so, too. But

21:03

every now and then we'll

21:05

say, oh, the three of us, oh,

21:07

we're a triad, oh, we're

21:09

a three sum, we're

21:11

not romantically. We actually

21:13

have a, because sometimes

21:16

you say, oh, I want to take

21:18

you know, I want us to go

21:20

to dinner. Well, what us do you have

21:23

in mind? Yeah, and yes, you did

21:25

spell meta more correctly. So it

21:27

is important to learn how to, it

21:29

works both ways. You have to learn

21:31

how to admit your wants and your

21:33

needs, and you have to come to

21:35

trust that your partner is going

21:37

to hear that wants a need. Now,

21:39

Sean actually literally had, she

21:41

was unable to speak her wants

21:43

or her needs, her previous relationship.

21:45

In a relationship. It was considered

21:48

bad form. to speak your wants

21:50

or needs, right? So I actually

21:52

walked her through. I actually had her

21:54

make little index cards and the

21:57

little index cards that I want

21:59

and she had. another index card says I

22:01

need and when I could see she was struggling

22:03

with trying to communicate I would

22:05

simply put those index cards in

22:07

her hand and I would literally say start

22:09

with one of those and that was very

22:11

valuable so that might be a trick that you might

22:13

want to take a look at. So I know we

22:15

have a comment that we're going to scroll back to

22:17

but you got two things to say real quick. Well

22:20

one of them was to remind me

22:22

that we do have a comment on

22:24

there so can we scroll back to

22:26

that because this might roll into that.

22:28

So the comment was, what do you

22:30

do if your partners focused on their

22:32

NRE, and then even if present with

22:34

you physically, they may be distracted during

22:36

your time together? And I'm going

22:39

to throw out there that for me, I

22:41

will speak up. We know of another

22:43

couple that's going through some stuff

22:45

right now, and that is what is

22:47

going on. One is the mature

22:50

relationship. He's involved with

22:52

the new relationship energy and

22:54

he is so involved with

22:56

the NRE that he has

22:58

put aside his mature relationship

23:01

and they are struggling right

23:03

now and it is specifically

23:05

for that even when he

23:07

in this instance even when

23:10

he is with the mature

23:12

relationship he's on the phone

23:14

Yeah. With everybody else he's saving.

23:16

He's not even present, is causing

23:18

them problems. We are watching from

23:20

the outside, and there's only so

23:22

much we can do when they

23:24

come to us for help, right?

23:26

We don't want to take sides.

23:28

We can mention, hey, you are

23:31

fucking up, your mature relationship, and

23:33

she's only going to deal with

23:35

that for so long if she

23:37

thinks you are constantly going

23:39

to be nose-deep in a new

23:41

relationship. needs if they want to

23:43

keep if this is if this

23:45

is truly polyamery and not serial

23:48

monogamy serial monogamy is

23:50

where you get rid of one

23:53

person to date another person and

23:55

then you get rid of a

23:57

person to date another person right

23:59

serial monogamy if it is truly

24:01

polyamery you got to give energy to

24:04

your mature relationship or you are just

24:06

going to be struggling all the

24:08

time he needs to put that phone

24:10

down and give his MRE yeah well

24:13

focus and so that's one of

24:15

the things that we do is we

24:17

make it clear that date time

24:19

is sacred time right yeah so that

24:21

it works both ways if Don and

24:24

I are on date time I

24:26

let Sean know, hey Don and I

24:28

are on daytime, I'll ping you

24:30

later, and Sean knows, leave me the

24:32

fuck alone. Now Sean could, what we've

24:35

kind of figured out is like,

24:37

if you're with Sean, I could email

24:39

you if I needed to, right?

24:41

Because you're not going to be looking

24:43

at that. If it's an emergency, I

24:46

could text you or call you.

24:48

You would have to call you, because

24:50

you're not checking your text messages,

24:52

you put your phone down. Same with

24:54

what you tell Sean, if me and

24:57

you are out on a date,

24:59

I do the same thing. You know,

25:01

we put our phones down and

25:03

we tell our other partners two hours

25:05

or whatever it is, we're going

25:07

to have focus time. Yeah. Another way

25:10

you can address that as well, though,

25:12

is to simply have a shorthand

25:14

term that says, I actually want your

25:16

attention. You know, I'm sure that

25:18

you guys... I assume other people are

25:21

like this. Sometimes when Dawn's talking, it's

25:23

just noise. It's just... Blah, blah,

25:25

blah, blah. I mean, external processor, all

25:27

the words in my head fall

25:29

out of my face. Yeah, I don't

25:32

care what's going on on yellow jackets,

25:34

which is the current show that

25:36

I'm watching. Yes. I don't care what

25:38

happened on supernatural for the third

25:40

time, because she loves to come back

25:43

and watch that over and watch that

25:45

over and over again. But I'm

25:47

not a dick about it. While she's

25:49

talking about things like that, she

25:51

doesn't need my full attention. She's just

25:54

sharing things and it's okay for me

25:56

to be looking at my phone

25:58

or looking at my computer and making

26:00

the aha noise Right? And I've

26:02

actually learned recently that I'm like, hey

26:05

Dan, I actually need your attention right

26:07

now. So as soon as you

26:09

have a second, we need to have

26:11

this. Because otherwise, I'm an external

26:13

processor. But we've also had to learn

26:16

that you're an internal processor and

26:18

I have to remember that you're not

26:20

giving me the cold shoulder. You're just

26:22

in your head doing your thing.

26:24

So learn your partners and metamorph communication

26:27

styles. Yep. So having that shorthand

26:29

term, whatever it is for you that

26:31

says. When I use this shorthand term,

26:33

it means I actually do want

26:35

your attention, which means I don't want

26:38

you to sit there and text

26:40

your other partner or only give me

26:42

half your attention, it's important for us

26:44

to pay attention to each other

26:46

as well. It's again one of the

26:49

challenges, new relationship energy. I don't

26:51

know why it is, but there's, you

26:53

know, when things are fresh, you sit

26:55

there and whatever your partner is

26:57

talking about. You're sitting there in raptured

27:00

and oh my, that's so fast.

27:02

You look at things. Oh, you bought

27:04

new toilet paper too? Oh my God,

27:07

this is so fascinating. And you

27:09

don't fall, you know, that doesn't happen

27:11

with your mature relationship energy. So

27:13

it's important to be able to communicate

27:15

and say, hey, no, you know, this

27:18

isn't one of those times where

27:20

you can just ignore me. And the

27:22

fun part of that is, there's

27:24

no reason you can't do that with

27:26

your mature relationship energy as well.

27:28

This is another tool. And you know,

27:31

yes, yes, we stole this from Ted

27:33

Lasso, but be curious. Be curious.

27:35

We are both, all of us are

27:37

getting into that curious stage of

27:39

I wonder how this Airbnb is going

27:42

to work out and let's just kind

27:44

of like go with the flow

27:46

and be gentle with each other and

27:48

gracious and see what happens. And

27:50

as the existing partner, when this new

27:53

partner comes in, one of the things

27:55

you can do to help settle

27:57

yourself. And Don mentioned this earlier and

27:59

Sean does this too, right? You

28:01

have your own history of relationships that

28:04

you come into and when you have

28:06

your history of relationships and then

28:08

this partner does the thing. You go

28:10

back and you refer to your

28:12

history of relationships. Oh, when that happens,

28:15

oh, this is what happens then, right?

28:17

So instead, you recognize this is

28:19

a reality, but instead you simply change

28:21

it to being curious and say,

28:23

wow, Sean just called me an inkum

28:26

poop. What the fuck is that mean?

28:28

I mean, is she really mad

28:30

at me? Or has she been watching

28:32

some old-timey TV show? Mink-a-poop, I'm

28:34

going to run that by her later.

28:37

Yeah, I don't think she's ever

28:39

called... I don't know that any... I

28:41

think she would use that language. I

28:43

don't... I think... Mr. Burns is

28:45

the only person I've ever heard say

28:48

that. How do you re-ignite, this

28:50

one that actually cuts a little close

28:52

to home? Yes. How do you re-ignite

28:54

that intimacy with your MRE when

28:56

the NRE is meeting your intimate needs

28:59

more? Yeah. Super challenging situation, right?

29:01

Part of it is I expect Dawn

29:03

to continue to date, right? And to

29:05

find her intimate... There's a couple

29:07

different ways and I don't want you

29:10

to hear one part of it

29:12

and say that's the answer. Part one.

29:14

Dawn's responsible for Dawn's needs, right? So

29:16

if she's like, man, I'm not

29:18

getting enough dick at home, we'll go

29:21

find some more. Uh, disclaimer. We

29:23

use naughty language. Yeah, it's an adult

29:25

class. Unfortunately, Dawn's terrible at dating. And...

29:27

Hey, no, I'm not terrible at

29:29

dating. I'm picky at dating. If I

29:32

dated every dick pick that came

29:34

my way, I would not have time

29:36

for anything else. I like my

29:38

way better because it implies... You're a

29:40

guy. I am completely not picky and

29:43

I don't think anything that shows

29:45

the slightest interest in me. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

29:47

that's true. Okay, and let's talk

29:49

about that later. So that's part one.

29:51

Part two is you have to be

29:54

able to speak up and say,

29:56

I'm horny for you. I would like

29:58

more intimacy. Now, one of the

30:00

challenges that Dawn and I have because

30:02

it's a mature relationship. I want to

30:05

know what are you horny for

30:07

specifically. Do you just want to fuck?

30:09

Do you want to play chemical

30:11

play? Do you want to get a

30:14

spanking on? Oh, he loves it when

30:16

I can say specifically what it

30:18

is that I'm in the mood for.

30:20

Because we've been together 25 years.

30:22

What we have liked over time has

30:25

ebbed and flowed and changed and things

30:27

like that. And sometimes I'll speak

30:29

up and go, you know what? I'm

30:31

older. I can't take... impact play.

30:33

I love impact play. I can't take

30:36

that like I used to. And he

30:38

may hear something different of like,

30:40

oh crap, well that's off the table

30:42

now. And that's not, so we

30:44

have to talk about that. We just

30:47

figured that out last week when

30:49

we were talking about that on the

30:51

podcast. That things that we weren't in

30:53

agreement with what we were hearing

30:55

or saying when it comes to certain

30:58

things. So if I speak up

31:00

and say, you know what? That's what

31:02

works for us because we don't talk

31:04

about each other's sex life a

31:06

lot That is just our agreements within

31:09

each other But I'm betting that

31:11

you're getting stuff from Sean that you

31:13

and I used to do Just somehow

31:15

has fallen off the table and

31:17

now it's new and fresh with someone

31:20

else right? So I instead of

31:22

going like I have and go but

31:24

we used to do that You know

31:26

how many times have I said

31:28

that over the last five months? But

31:31

we used to do that. Why

31:33

don't we do that anymore? Well, it's

31:35

because I'm not asking for it. Yeah.

31:37

Also, there's the reality of my

31:39

favorite restaurant in the world might be

31:42

Waffle House. And I might go

31:44

to Waffle House and enjoy it every

31:46

time I go to Waffle House. Oh,

31:48

God damn, that was a good

31:50

omelet last night. But hell, man, I

31:53

want to try Denny's on occasion

31:55

or I hop. I said it. Damn,

31:57

never mind. So there's absolutely a

31:59

reality between there's a... an intimacy inequality.

32:01

Donn and I and Sean are there right

32:04

now. There's a variety of things that

32:06

we are doing to address that, but

32:08

the flip side is we don't want

32:10

to, I don't want to take anything

32:12

away from Sean just because... Oh yeah,

32:14

right. I'm not asking you to not to

32:16

do that with Sean, right? You got to

32:18

remember that too. What is, there's another tool

32:21

with that I'm going to forget the name

32:23

to, but no, I'm not asking you not

32:25

to do the thing with the other person.

32:28

is that I want it too. So I

32:30

have to remember that it's an envy, not

32:32

a jealousy. Yeah, and that's a great

32:34

one there. And the final part about

32:37

that is it's just, give it

32:39

a little time, you know, yeah, the fresh

32:41

and, or the new and fresh is new

32:43

and fresh right now, a little bit of

32:45

time goes by, it's not gonna be

32:47

anymore. No, and it's gonna take

32:49

work, and yeah. And then we slowly

32:52

remember that, oh, oh, right. The reason

32:54

I've been fucking dawn for 25 years is because

32:56

she's actually really fucking good at it. So we

32:58

can go right back to. We have a wonderful

33:00

pattern, right? So it's fun that I'm exploring these

33:02

new patterns with Sean. I don't, you know, we don't, you know,

33:04

how I don't know what she's going to pull out of a

33:06

toy bag on a kid. That's not true, by the way.

33:08

There's, I have limits. Now it may well be that

33:10

you do not have that opportunity to have that opportunity

33:13

to find outside that opportunity to find

33:15

outside partners to find outside partners for

33:17

a variety of variety of reasons for

33:19

a variety of reasons. You know, that's one

33:21

of the aspects of polyamery

33:23

that you're going to have to

33:25

make that decision or that you may

33:28

just have to deal with. And

33:30

that, again, continues to be a

33:32

conversation with that partner that you

33:34

need intimacy from. You also

33:36

can, perhaps it is important to

33:38

make sure that you understand

33:40

what you need from that partner.

33:42

Is it intimacy or is it

33:45

orgasms? Is it penetrative sex or

33:47

is it hold me? and remember

33:49

how much the energy our

33:51

energy is right find something

33:53

special like like Dan and

33:55

I maybe there's something special

33:58

that just you and I could do.

34:00

Not that I want to limit you with

34:02

other people, but maybe we could look at

34:04

something that is like, oh yeah, when you

34:07

and I do that, this is this really

34:09

clicky thing, and we just need to remember

34:11

to do it a little bit more, right?

34:13

That could be something that would help

34:15

charge up the mature relationship

34:17

energy, but we also decided when we

34:20

were talking on the podcast about this

34:22

last week, we also decided we're

34:24

going to use our Kingstarter cards

34:26

more because... Not only do

34:28

we know what each other likes, we

34:31

know it really, really well, which means

34:33

a quickie can be a quickie because

34:35

we know exactly what buttons to push,

34:38

exactly where to touch, exactly what to

34:40

say, and bam, you know, we can

34:42

have that intense moment. But sometimes that

34:45

means we're doing the same thing

34:47

over and over again, right? And

34:49

you're doing new things with new

34:51

people because you're learning them. So

34:53

we forget to do new things

34:55

with each other. So we have

34:57

this deck of Kingstarter cards that has

34:59

all these different scenes on it,

35:01

all these different ideas, and we

35:04

can draw random scenes, random

35:06

play sessions, and see what it

35:08

is that we want to do

35:10

that's creative. Absolutely. There's a

35:12

question about, you're 100% correct

35:15

in this question, that dealing

35:17

with a situation where you

35:19

have an individual with

35:21

the ID, disassociated identity

35:23

disorder. Yeah, that is, that's its own

35:26

total show right there. I would actually,

35:28

do you guys know about

35:30

CAP? CAP. That's Kink-aware Professionals

35:33

through the National Coalition for

35:35

Sexual Freedom. So I think

35:37

their website, I think you can

35:39

actually go to Kink-aware Professionals.com.

35:42

And that's where you are

35:44

going to find National Coalition

35:46

for Sexual Freedom is all

35:49

about Kink and Power Exchange

35:51

and Polyamery. They have a

35:54

huge amount, a list of

35:56

people that could actually work

35:58

with DID and polyamery. So yeah,

36:01

it's K-A-P, Kink, even though it

36:03

has Kink in the title, it

36:05

is also polyamery. So Kink-aware professionals

36:07

through National Coalition for Sexual Freedom.

36:09

They were just there at the

36:11

event that we were at this

36:13

weekend again. So that is who,

36:15

if you have DID as one

36:17

of the diagnosis in your family

36:19

unit, I would talk to someone

36:21

that. is on that list. Yeah,

36:23

we have other diagnoses in our

36:25

family units that we would be

36:27

able to speak to. This is

36:30

not one that we have a

36:32

lot of experience with. Yeah, if

36:34

you want PTSD or ADHD or

36:36

things like that. Some of us,

36:38

the way I explained it this

36:40

weekend is that some of us

36:42

in our whole poly pod, there's

36:44

about what, eight of us, maybe,

36:46

one, three, four, five. Anyway, there's

36:48

a bunch of us in our

36:50

pod. A lot of different labels.

36:52

some diagnoses some misdiagnoses some guesses

36:54

and I just say I have

36:57

a dawn brain and my dawn

36:59

brain is a little bit different

37:01

than other people's brains so she's

37:03

not I don't need I don't

37:05

need diagnosis to say that my

37:07

my brain is a little different

37:09

than other people's so I'm groving

37:11

through these notes I feel like

37:13

we put everything in here we

37:15

talked about a variety of Aspects

37:17

and... And again, now's your time

37:19

to ask questions. Yep. So at

37:21

this point, we're going to open

37:23

the floor to any questions that

37:26

you might have, and then we'll

37:28

wrap this puppy up. Yes, I

37:30

totally dig the whole alphabet soup

37:32

of New Spicy. Absolutely. And like

37:34

I said, at my age, I'm

37:36

in my late 50s. So we're

37:38

talking about some of the stuff

37:40

that I was going through was

37:42

in the 80s. There were no

37:44

diagnoses for this stuff. and women

37:46

get misdiagnosed. So what are my

37:48

actual labels? My actual, I have

37:50

one that is definite, which is

37:52

PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder. We've also

37:55

got, we've spent many years in

37:57

12-step programs, so we've. got that

37:59

background. Yeah, all kinds of stuff

38:01

going on here. This is with

38:03

a variety of change work, maybe

38:05

not everything though, certainly. Oh, here's

38:07

a good tool I would like

38:09

to share with you guys as

38:11

I'm scrolling through our list. Managing

38:13

surprises. How's that for a good

38:15

one? There's two that I would

38:17

like to mention while we're gathering

38:19

questions if there are any. Management

38:21

of surprises has really, really come

38:24

in handy for us in that.

38:26

We've had people come in and

38:28

out of our polypod, you know,

38:30

I've had other people, dantite other

38:32

people, we do a lot of

38:34

things. So management of surprises, when,

38:36

for example, last summer, was it

38:38

last summer, the summer before, when

38:40

we went on a cruise with

38:42

Tracy Chicago partner, and her, her,

38:44

one of her other partners, right?

38:46

So we're going on a cruise,

38:48

and then... So, yeah, I don't

38:51

want to. throw you under the

38:53

bus. So Dan and Dawn and

38:55

Tracy going on a cruise together.

38:57

Now there's other people involved as

38:59

well, but you know, I'm, I

39:01

were going on this cruise together.

39:03

Wow, pretty interesting, right? Well, somehow,

39:05

Shaw knew we were going on

39:07

a cruise. Somehow I did not

39:09

mention that Tracy and were going

39:11

on this cruise as well. I

39:13

have no clue how that... And

39:15

it was a bit of the

39:17

story got mixed. Right, and it's

39:20

not like secrets for being held,

39:22

but... Yeah, you want to be

39:24

careful that you manage your surprises.

39:26

You know, the short version of

39:28

this is if you're going to

39:30

update your FET life profile or

39:32

your Facebook profile with now dating

39:34

or now daddy to or some

39:36

whatever it is, let your other

39:38

partners know, don't have them learn

39:40

it from reading the profile. That

39:42

feels like you're being sneaky underhanded

39:44

or you just don't pay attention

39:46

to them enough to let them

39:49

know about these important life changes.

39:51

So that's managing surprises. Exactly. Lots

39:53

of managing of surprises with this

39:55

weekend because this is the first

39:57

event Sean's not gone with us

39:59

in five months and we've been

40:01

to six. big weekend events since

40:03

then. So, you know, dance in

40:05

touch with her. I'm getting ready

40:07

to do this thing. We're getting

40:09

ready to teach a sexual class.

40:11

Here's what's going to happen. Here's

40:13

what did happen. You know, and

40:15

all this stuff, just to keep

40:18

her in the loop. And it's

40:20

not that she wants to keep

40:22

a thumb on things. It's just

40:24

that at least for us. This

40:26

stuff is going to be discussed

40:28

on the podcast. This stuff is

40:30

going to be shared here and

40:32

other places. She needs to hear

40:34

it from him or me first

40:36

before hearing it from somewhere else.

40:38

So things like, so management of

40:40

surprises. Yeah, when your podcast is

40:42

750 episodes, you talk about everything.

40:45

And when your partners listen to

40:47

the podcast, you don't want that

40:49

to be the communication method. Someone

40:51

had asked about, how do I

40:53

tell all my partners to be

40:55

involved in this meeting, right? For

40:57

us, we call it the Sunday

40:59

meeting, whatever it is. I think

41:01

the simple solution to that is

41:03

saying, hey, I heard about this

41:05

concept called the Sunday Meeting on

41:07

this podcast. What do you guys

41:09

think about that? And maybe why,

41:11

if there's a situation where things

41:14

would have simplified by having that,

41:16

right? If you've just gone through

41:18

a situation where your... You know,

41:20

somebody forgot to update the Google

41:22

calendar to let everybody know what

41:24

was going on, say, hey, you

41:26

know what? Maybe that will, let's

41:28

not, you know, cry over spill

41:30

milk, but in the future, what

41:32

if we had a Sunday meeting,

41:34

that might fix that. But also

41:36

realize that not everybody is going

41:38

to want to be involved in

41:40

the Sunday meeting, if this is

41:43

parallel poly in any way, shape

41:45

or form, some people are not

41:47

going to like that. For us,

41:49

at least with the three of

41:51

us. It's only the three of

41:53

us that sit down for the

41:55

Sunday meeting. Dan has a different

41:57

meeting with his Chicago partner, his

41:59

Chicago partner. actually gets the three

42:01

of us me Dan and Sean

42:03

together once a month on a

42:05

zoom call and she leads this

42:07

exploration of getting to know all

42:09

of us and stuff like that's

42:12

yeah and sometimes she'll invite her

42:14

husband along with that so you

42:16

know it's a way of getting

42:18

to know that I don't have

42:20

a Sunday meeting with my other

42:22

partner of almost 12 years at

42:24

all we have a totally different way

42:26

that we keep in touch but He

42:28

knows how important it is that I'm

42:30

in the loop of whatever he's doing.

42:33

I don't get to say so, but

42:35

I want to be in the loop and

42:37

kind of part of it. So we

42:39

have a different way of communicating. And

42:41

so there's all kinds of styles,

42:44

but that's what works for us.

42:46

I also want to mention with this

42:48

whole kitchen table, Polly, which is

42:50

what the three of us are doing

42:53

and other different things. Crud. Am I

42:55

going to lose my train of thought? Good. Look

42:57

for it. I'm going to say I disagree

42:59

with these whole labels, by the way. Calling yourself

43:01

kitchen table, calling yourself parallel, calling

43:03

yourself whatever it is that you're

43:05

going to call yourself. Now you've

43:07

limited yourself to what kind of...

43:10

And people, we got too much

43:12

going on to have these limitations

43:14

to say, we might say, it's reminiscent of

43:16

kitchen table polyamry. But we do, we

43:18

do... us three poly, that's what we

43:20

did. That is true, but for me,

43:22

I like to know, I like to

43:24

have definitions of different things so that

43:27

I can kind of figure out what

43:29

it is that I'm doing, and then

43:31

I realize it's limiting and kind of

43:33

create my own thing. But one, I

43:35

like to throw out there also that a

43:37

lot of times I get asked, okay, well

43:39

I want my meta more to be

43:41

part of this meeting thing that we're

43:43

doing, but my meta more doesn't want

43:45

to. meet me or spend time with

43:47

me. How can I make her do

43:49

that or him or whatever? And I have

43:51

to respond to that one and say,

43:54

you know what, I've been that metamore

43:56

that I don't want to go

43:58

to pedicures with someone. else. I

44:00

don't want to go clothing shopping and

44:02

I'm an introvert. I don't necessarily want

44:04

to spend time with your other partners.

44:07

They're your partners. They're your relationships. We

44:09

used to try to date together and

44:11

realized why that didn't work and now

44:13

those are your relationships. Just like I

44:15

don't need you to go to the

44:18

movies with Big D. I don't need

44:20

you to have that sort of relationship

44:22

and I don't want anyone... And we've

44:24

had some of your other partners where

44:26

they assumed that I was going to

44:28

be part of it and now I'm

44:31

automatically instantly their friend. And that just

44:33

does not have to happen. Everybody gets

44:35

to make their own choice of how

44:37

they want to blend in. And obviously

44:39

as that pivot partner, you're hoping, oh

44:41

can't the three of us do this

44:44

thing together? The four of us do

44:46

this thing together. But you don't want

44:48

to force it either, right? Let everybody

44:50

else. Let everybody find their own balance.

44:52

Dawn and... Tracy and Sean all get

44:54

along great. And that's not because I

44:57

pushed anybody into anything. They just showed

44:59

up and they have enough similarities or

45:01

enough personal, I'm going to go back

45:03

to similarities to say, yep, that it's

45:05

working for them. Yeah, but there are

45:07

pivot partners that also don't want their

45:10

partners to get along and be friends.

45:12

They like having the two separate worlds.

45:14

Because once it becomes blended, it's a

45:16

lot of work. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah,

45:18

everybody's looking for something. Fun little change

45:21

for Dan and Dawn recently. I have

45:23

no longer employed by Corporate America. So

45:25

we're trying to figure out, is this

45:27

a erotic awakening thing? Is that really

45:29

a business? It's been a business for

45:31

Dawn for years. Yeah, I do. And

45:34

it's funny, right? Because I don't want

45:36

it to be something we can freely

45:38

give away. Because... It's just so valuable

45:40

for us had we had these things

45:42

when we were growing up. Poly, we

45:44

would have loved that to be, so

45:47

I'm glad that you guys are finding

45:49

this. So, and I want to throw

45:51

out there that on this website, I've

45:53

actually been recording Zoom classes now for

45:55

almost three years. So I have like

45:57

45 Zoom classes recorded. Some are Power

46:00

Exchange, some are Sacred Sexualities, some are

46:02

Polyamory. So, on our web store, I

46:04

do have about 20 classes. This is

46:06

one of them. I think I actually

46:08

did this on my own as one

46:10

of the, so it'll have other tools

46:13

as well. This is different every time

46:15

we teach it. And so between the

46:17

books, the Kingstarter cards, the podcast, the

46:19

Zoom classes, the everything. There's so many

46:21

resources. Yeah. I hope that was valuable

46:24

for everybody. I think we're going to

46:26

be back here in a couple of

46:28

weeks. I think in... A couple of

46:30

weeks we will be coming back and

46:32

we will be doing chemical play and

46:34

I will be putting Tabasco in Dawn's

46:37

eyes. No, no, no. But maybe. No,

46:39

but ginger juice? We need to get

46:41

the thingies and the thingies if we're

46:43

going to do that. I'm totally making

46:45

that up. That is not what we're

46:47

doing. Oh, what are you doing? I'm

46:50

not going to put Tabasco in your

46:52

eye. That would be a little... No,

46:54

no. I want that. I want ginger

46:56

juice in other juice in other places.

46:58

We know where she wants that. We

47:00

know where she wants that. We know

47:03

where she wants that. We know where

47:05

she wants that. We know where she

47:07

wants that. We know where she wants

47:09

that. We know where she wants that.

47:11

We know where she wants that. We

47:14

know where she wants that. We know

47:16

where she wants that. I

47:22

don't think that

47:24

actually took us

47:26

out. Yeah, yeah,

47:28

yeah, yeah. There

47:30

we go. And?