0:04

Remembering

0:04

that before times when we used

0:07

to get together without a second thought?

0:08

lingering dinners and

0:11

grabbing drinks after work, catching

0:13

up with old friends over coffee. Annual

0:16

costume parties, if you're me,

0:18

and neighborhood barbecues and

0:21

little game tournaments and book clubs

0:23

that were more wine maybe than books.

0:26

But then the pandemic. The

0:28

pandemic forced us to have

0:30

a bit of a reset. We

0:33

had to learn how to be together apart.

0:36

So we got creative. Zoom

0:38

charades and Zoom coffee dates and

0:40

Zoom painting classes and Zoom book

0:42

clubs and faculty meetings. and

0:45

some of those innovations we might wanna

0:47

keep and others we want to exile

0:50

from our minds forever. In

0:54

whatever time this is that we

0:56

find ourselves now, we may

0:58

be wondering what getting together should

1:01

look like now. How

1:03

do we get the good parts back that we

1:05

had in the before times? But

1:07

we might be a little bit out of practice. or

1:10

too tired or too overwhelmed to

1:13

even know what to ask for. But

1:15

we know this part is true. When

1:18

life comes undone, we need

1:20

each other now more than perhaps

1:22

ever before. So

1:24

the very act of gathering feels

1:27

central to, I don't know,

1:30

survival,

1:31

maybe. But how do we

1:33

do it in a way that fits our lives now?

1:36

the after life. I'm

1:40

Kate Boller, and this is everything

1:42

happens. And today,

1:44

I'm speaking with an expert facilitator

1:47

who can help us figure out how to gather

1:49

together in ways that really matter.

1:52

and here's the best part. It doesn't

1:54

even have to be fancy or predictable

1:57

or boring. Priya

1:59

Parker is a facilitator, strategic

2:02

advisor, and author. She

2:04

wrote the Game changing Book The

2:06

Art of Gathering. how we meet

2:09

and why it matters. Where she helps

2:11

us reimagine and think about how

2:13

we spend time together Pria,

2:16

thank you so much for doing this. I'm

2:18

so glad you're here. Thank you for having

2:20

me. Your work really reminds

2:22

me of one of the conversations I had

2:24

a long time ago with surgeon general,

2:26

Vivek Murphy, and it was when

2:28

he took his first job as surgeon general.

2:31

and he wanted to do a kind of listening

2:33

tour to find out more about

2:35

the major health issues that Americans face.

2:38

And I think he was expecting to find something

2:40

like,

2:40

I don't know,

2:42

heart disease. But the crisis

2:44

that struck him most was loneliness.

2:48

Americans reported feeling painfully

2:50

lonely, loneliness that had a huge

2:52

effect on their mental and physical

2:54

health. And that was even before

2:57

the loneliness of the pandemic. I'd

2:59

love to start there. Why

3:01

is it important to get together? One

3:04

of the reasons I think Dr.

3:06

Murphy

3:06

is such a phenomenal

3:08

doctor

3:09

is because he

3:13

is looking at his

3:15

patience,

3:15

quote unquote,

3:18

with a lens of

3:20

no judgment,

3:22

and really trying

3:24

to see

3:25

what the underlying malaise

3:27

is,

3:29

not the symptoms. And

3:32

well before the pandemic,

3:33

as you

3:35

said, he diagnosed this

3:38

kind

3:38

of heartbreaking disease

3:41

in this country, which is

3:44

we've fallen out of relationship

3:46

with each other.

3:48

Yes. That's so true. It's

3:50

so death by weak ties right now,

3:52

isn't it?

3:53

It's such a beautiful, beautiful

3:55

way to

3:56

put it. It's, you know, know, I I

3:58

wrote the art of gathering in two thousand

3:59

eighteen. And as

4:02

you know, as a as a writer, you you kind of have

4:04

to go out and ask the people. It's like terrifying. You

4:06

have to people for for blurbs.

4:08

Yeah.

4:08

And years

4:12

ago, I I hosted

4:14

with some friends and colleagues of mind that these

4:16

dinners called fifteen toasts

4:18

that were were

4:20

kind of this in social invention to

4:22

try to have people to have more

4:24

meaningful conversations at dinners

4:26

that they were at, whether at conferences or

4:28

a group of strangers. And I happens

4:30

with somebody invited Deepak Chopra

4:33

to one of them. Oh my gosh. And

4:36

and and, you know, years later, I wrote this

4:38

book and, you know, they kind of tell you, like, who

4:40

who have you ever met in your entire life.

4:42

Yeah.

4:42

Exactly. That's exactly

4:45

what happened. And I was like,

4:47

I went some sort of met Deepak Chopra.

4:49

I was like, let me, you know, send him a note.

4:51

And and, you know, I

4:53

don't I know of of him, but I

4:55

don't I didn't know him. And he wrote me back

4:57

this shot, surprising to

5:00

me, beautiful blurb

5:02

after reading this book and he said, I

5:06

basically

5:07

stopped going

5:09

to gatherings. And

5:11

I I thought I was

5:13

just aging.

5:14

And I just they weren't for me

5:16

anymore. And

5:17

I began to realize that

5:20

no, they

5:20

just weren't meaningful.

5:23

these gap, we can come together and we

5:25

can still basically not

5:27

have a good time or feel isolated or

5:30

or have kind of superficial conversations

5:33

or, you know, or or

5:35

or we can basically still be together and

5:36

feel very apart.

5:38

And so much of

5:41

what I'm interested in, I think you

5:43

are interested in is how when we come

5:45

together, when we choose to come together, How

5:47

do we make that time meaningful and

5:49

authentic and real? And

5:51

that most people are craving that,

5:54

but for all

5:54

sorts of reasons, we missing

5:57

each other. That's great. I

5:58

think

5:59

academia fell in love with this model

6:02

of the salon, which ideally is supposed

6:04

to be sort of this incredible confluence

6:07

of smart and amazing people. But

6:09

then the the the model, she

6:11

just said lovingly in respect actually

6:13

is you just put a whole bunch of people

6:15

in a room

6:15

and go content. I

6:17

think you get this pretty hard. Content.

6:20

I So

6:23

and then but you haven't given them what

6:25

you would describe right as like this animating

6:28

purpose. So is that, I guess, maybe

6:31

the first clue that a gathering

6:34

will go very badly is that it

6:36

has no

6:37

obvious reason

6:39

or just assumes that if you,

6:41

quote, put the right people in the in the

6:43

room without knowing why

6:46

that it just can't always invent

6:48

itself. I

6:49

think people can always

6:51

find their way to each other. Right? So

6:54

it's not that people,

6:56

you know, can you put people in a

6:58

room and they it's guaranteed to go

7:00

anyway whatsoever. I I think it can it

7:02

can, you know, you can have sparks and people

7:04

can find, you know, can find their ways to

7:06

each other.

7:07

But but sort of underneath

7:09

what I'm saying is the

7:11

time that we spend with other people, the

7:13

the time that we have period is sacred.

7:15

Yeah. The time we have with other people, goal

7:17

is kind of this, like, collective sacredness.

7:20

Right?

7:20

We could be doing anything in any moment.

7:23

Why are we spending this time together? To

7:25

what end? I'm a contract

7:27

resolution facilitator and so I'm trained

7:29

to put people together

7:31

in a room who

7:32

need to have meaningful conversations

7:35

and are avoiding that conversation for

7:36

all sorts of reasons. And

7:39

when I

7:41

took that lens to other

7:42

fields and said who was creating, you

7:44

know, transformative experiences for people?

7:46

And I interviewed them so many

7:48

people, whether it's rabbis, or hockey coaches

7:51

or photographers, they

7:52

kept coming back to this this basic

7:55

insight, which is I

7:56

don't have a line in my head of what a

7:58

gathering has to look like. every

8:01

single time I pause and ask,

8:03

why am I doing this? What

8:06

is the need Why might

8:08

I bring together a specific

8:09

group of people?

8:10

And a purpose, you

8:12

know, a purpose may not be serious. Like,

8:14

you don't need to, you know, be the UN

8:16

to have a purpose. Mhmm. A

8:20

purpose is what I mean by that is basically

8:22

us an underlying sense

8:25

of relevancy. Why would I want

8:27

to get these people together? And that

8:29

can be to celebrate the

8:31

arrival of a new rug. I mean,

8:34

that can be that can bear with recently

8:36

speaking with a woman who was separated.

8:38

and just got separated. And

8:40

she, like in many separations, moved

8:43

moved out, separated, decoupled from her

8:45

partner, and moved into a much smaller studio.

8:48

And she was kind of self conscious

8:50

about whether or not she could

8:52

gather people. And she hadn't had people over

8:54

since the split. It felt like this

8:56

you know, raw moment and tender moment. Who

8:58

who does she invite? Does she invite kind of their

9:01

shared friends? You know, what do you what do

9:03

you kind of do here? And

9:05

we talked about it, and I I and

9:07

kind of in our conversation, she's

9:10

thinking about throwing a

9:12

room of one's own party. Oh,

9:14

that's lovely. And

9:17

she

9:18

found this kind of she distilled

9:20

it down to this Right? There's

9:23

taboo around separation. There's

9:25

taboo around divorce. But

9:27

this is the most and this is the most

9:29

courageous decision I've

9:31

made. I have created

9:34

space in my life. I have taken these

9:36

massive risks I have

9:38

literally changed my life and my infrastructure

9:40

and my home.

9:41

How then and who do I

9:43

want to enter into it in this

9:45

moment? And that's a

9:48

that when I say a need or purpose, it

9:50

can be a hilarious night. It can be full

9:52

of humor. It can be full of joy. It can be full

9:54

of tenderness. but it's having

9:56

a decision making filter

9:58

of what is actually happening in my

10:00

life or my community. And then who was

10:02

invited in? And then that guest

10:04

making lists in your head actually

10:06

becomes this incredibly intentional practice

10:09

of given this purpose who

10:11

do I want to help fulfill that purpose

10:13

for this evening? Yes. Yes.

10:15

Not cosmically for all time.

10:17

Exactly. My best

10:19

friend was having a birthday that she was a

10:21

little I don't

10:23

know.

10:23

She just felt blah about and

10:25

I just read your book and I thought

10:28

know, I think we just need a little emotional

10:30

timekeeping right now.

10:33

So we wrote down everything that's

10:35

happened felt like it just hadn't

10:37

quite gotten celebrated in the last

10:39

year. And then we picked we

10:41

well, we made up dumb thematic

10:43

cocktails about it. And in

10:46

this speech. Let's hear the list. Let's hear the

10:48

list. The truth is.

10:51

The truth

10:51

is one of them was called a Rama

10:53

one zone. So thank

10:55

you.

11:05

You work hard. You deserve to have

11:07

fun. So have that dessert before

11:09

dinner. And while you're at it, download best

11:11

fiends, best Beans is an exciting puzzle

11:13

adventure game that lets you play anywhere,

11:16

anytime. And with new adventures and

11:18

challenges every time you play, you

11:20

won't be able to put it down There

11:22

are dozens of unique themes to collect, so

11:24

you can customize your team of fiends

11:26

to defeat menacing slugs and

11:28

power up your favorite feeds to new

11:30

levels for even more powerful skills

11:32

and watch them transform as they get

11:34

stronger. Add some joy to your daily

11:36

routine with best fiends, and even play

11:38

offline when you don't have any internet

11:40

connection. So get in on the fun for

11:42

yourself. You've earned Go to

11:44

the App Store or Google Play to

11:46

download best fiends for free. Plus,

11:48

earn even more with five dollars

11:50

worth of in game rewards you reach

11:52

level five, that's friends

11:54

without the r, best fiend.

11:59

But it

12:00

does feel good when people

12:02

can keep pace with us

12:05

in the thing that is

12:07

lighting up or sometimes shutting

12:09

down our lives. I think

12:11

the the best party I ever through

12:13

was only because I

12:15

I was very sick and I mostly

12:17

didn't have I didn't have

12:19

that many people that

12:22

lived around where I was

12:24

getting chemo and I really just wanted people

12:26

to sing Christmas

12:27

Carol's with because I love it. When

12:30

you get a room full of people

12:32

who sing, and I don't even know if they liked

12:34

each each other that much. But like they really did,

12:36

it doesn't matter. all thing.

12:38

Yeah. That's completely I

12:40

mean, there's so many you know,

12:42

we used in traditional

12:43

communities, you know, when people were born

12:45

in the same place and ate the same

12:48

food, and worshiped the same God,

12:50

and die on the same soil, there

12:52

were embedded rituals that

12:54

helped for moments of

12:56

transition. And so whether it's

12:58

Christmas Carols, Like, if I were to, like,

13:00

reverse engineering that beautiful

13:02

gathering you thought about what is your need?

13:04

And your need was not Christmas Carol's, that's

13:06

an activity. your need was

13:08

to feel deep joy. And then you thought, well, what

13:10

are the elements that give me deep joy?

13:12

Well, Christmas Carols, without judgment Right?

13:14

Yeah. Totally. And who are

13:16

them? And and it's like, who are the people in my

13:18

life? Not who will sing Christmas Carols.

13:20

No. We'll who will literally

13:22

follow me to the ends of the earth and

13:24

love me when I need to be left on.

13:26

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And,

13:28

you know, I I remember reading a

13:30

few

13:30

years ago, a woman who wrote in

13:32

The New York Times, I'm forgetting her name right now. Maybe

13:34

it'll come to me. Her husband, her

13:36

partner to be found found out that he

13:38

needed to have his foot

13:40

amputated. Mhmm. It

13:42

was

13:42

before their wedding and in

13:45

his as she described it in his trademark

13:47

sense of humor the night before what he most wanted

13:49

the night before the amputation was

13:51

a

13:51

foot roast. In

13:53

which he gathered all of his

13:55

friends when they all

13:57

gave roast to his

13:59

left

13:59

foot. Oh.

14:02

And and and it was this

14:04

beautiful, hilarious a

14:06

tragic, stunning,

14:09

present ritual that

14:12

has relevance Right? That

14:14

has meaning under it. And by the way,

14:16

or so often people say to me, well, who am I

14:18

to gather around this specific thing in

14:20

my life? it's actually like it's

14:22

such a gift to be

14:24

needed. It's such a gift

14:26

to come together and say, yes, I can sing

14:28

Christmas songs. Christmas

14:30

Carol's, it lets me know how to love you and the way you

14:32

want to be loved. Yes. Let me give a roast to your

14:34

left foot. You know, yes. Let me, you

14:36

know, think about my

14:38

my pun my corneous foot puns

14:41

because it allows me to know how to love you in

14:43

a way where I we don't always know what to

14:45

do. Yeah. That's right.

14:47

I don't think I I didn't really

14:49

start throwing parties till I got

14:51

sick. And then I just I needed I needed

14:54

people and a big

14:56

feeling that could mark the it's

14:58

like if I had the bottom of the roller

15:00

coaster, I needed the top feeling

15:02

And that's always the surrealness of

15:05

people who might not even know

15:06

each other all that well doing

15:09

usually in my mind the same

15:11

dumb thing. Like, I

15:13

I've been hosting really

15:16

aggressive taste test parties

15:18

for a long time where it's like

15:19

twelve of ketchup one

15:22

evening. That's amazing.

15:24

It's amazing. And

15:26

again, like, I'm sorry to sound like a broken

15:28

record, but like it's a brilliant gathering because

15:30

it's specific. It's

15:32

meaningful. It relates to the element

15:34

I imagine of what you're

15:36

actually appreciating and what you're

15:38

losing, and it reminds other people what they

15:40

have. Right. It's a beautiful,

15:42

invented, modern ritual.

15:44

And and I think so often

15:46

we, like, we

15:48

think we need to crowd

15:50

out at our

15:51

moments of of

15:53

tenderness or shame and

15:55

Sometimes we need to be alone. Like, absolutely,

15:58

stillness is also medicine.

15:59

them And

16:01

I've been so moved in the

16:03

moments where people call

16:05

in, kind of, like, reaching

16:07

through the dark, figuring out,

16:10

like, following almost their intuition. Like,

16:12

what is it that I need? And this seems

16:14

kind strange. I'm gonna kinda go for it. You

16:16

know, I I this is a this is

16:18

from a friend of mine years ago, she

16:20

was

16:20

part she was she joined a consulting

16:22

firm after

16:23

grad school. Like,

16:25

many people who joined consulting firms hadn't

16:28

really been planning on it, but they had really

16:30

aggressive, well organized recruitment on

16:32

campus. And

16:35

and and kind of followed it and and

16:37

I should just say all the stories I share, I have

16:39

permission to share, but she she could have

16:41

followed this thread. And before she knew

16:43

it, every time she's about to leave, she kept

16:45

on getting a raise. She was she was really

16:47

good. She was very smart. and

16:50

she finally realized, like,

16:52

eight years in, unless

16:53

she leaves at a moment

16:56

that's

16:56

going really well. She's literally

16:58

never gonna leave. Right? Like, it's designed to

17:00

make you stay. And so she sent

17:02

a note out to six or seven of her

17:04

friends and said, I I need you

17:06

to blow courage my way. I

17:09

wanna host a quitting party.

17:11

I need time to unwrap

17:13

and I don't fully know how to do this, but I need you

17:15

to hold me accountable. And each

17:18

of you are people who have made decisions that

17:20

make no sense to anyone else

17:22

within your you come and bring one

17:24

piece of courage that has

17:26

helped you. It can be a poem. It can

17:28

be a song. It can be

17:30

a joke. It can be a TV show. And we

17:33

gather and we, like, again, it's a little

17:35

complicated. We sat on her, like,

17:37

rug around a coffee table.

17:39

And we each just shared an experience

17:41

kind of organically about a moment we

17:43

made a terrifying decision that made no

17:45

sense to anyone else. And when

17:47

we go back to the beginning of this conversation, when you're saying,

17:49

like, what is the purpose here? That's when I

17:51

say, you may not be serious, but

17:54

she she realized I have

17:56

a lot of fear around quitting. The peep

17:58

there are people in my life who who grow

18:00

that fear or share that fear or think that

18:02

I should stay in this thing. I am

18:04

those people to this

18:06

party.

18:06

They

18:08

can

18:08

be invited to my birthday party. They can be

18:10

invited to, you know, going in the park.

18:13

But that's when I say to have a specific disputeable

18:16

purpose, we each felt also really

18:18

seen, oh, someone in my

18:20

life sees me as

18:22

making courageous decisions. I didn't

18:24

think of myself that way.

18:26

And, I mean, this was a decade ago, and

18:28

I still remember what other people share it.

18:30

It helped me. It's like when gatherings are

18:32

transformative, it's not only for the person at

18:34

the center of it, if that's the model, it's also

18:36

for everybody else. We each took

18:39

six stories, six poems, wheat, and

18:41

then six months later, you know,

18:43

come hell or high water. She was gonna quit.

18:45

Otherwise, she had six of us being like,

18:47

remember. community

18:49

as like accountability mechanism. But

18:51

it was also fun and

18:53

meaningful and raw and scary.

18:55

and all of us realizing like, well, how do

18:57

you make a good decision? And when do you

19:00

leave? And how do you decide? And then sometimes

19:02

you just gotta jump. Yeah. And I'd

19:04

love the idea too that especially for

19:06

people who are kinda overburdened with time that just

19:08

because they get a group of people together doesn't

19:10

mean they have to do it for all time every

19:12

Wednesday until until the end

19:14

of because

19:15

one time and we only did

19:18

it once. a group of

19:20

colleagues and I all got together and

19:22

read our horror. We each went into a

19:24

separate room and read our teaching

19:26

about wishes. Buy our self in our moments of shame.

19:28

Just process because every because

19:31

I do the same thing

19:33

every year, which is I

19:35

don't care how many compliments I get.

19:37

If

19:37

there is one, I hated this

19:39

reading, and this was the worst of

19:40

all time. And then after we'd all

19:42

had our of humiliation, then

19:44

we got together in the group.

19:46

And we all said our

19:48

worst one out loud in a really,

19:50

really loud voice. And that

19:53

was that was so fun

19:55

because then the it took it

19:58

weirdly took the sting out of the

19:59

humiliation. Mhmm. And and I

20:02

think he was something about using a

20:04

really loud voice where we're

20:06

like, and

20:06

then Brian says, and I

20:09

quote.

20:11

I mean, again,

20:14

brilliant. I mean, if you think about it, that's

20:16

such a beautiful design. There's so

20:18

much thought in it. There's there's there's

20:20

wisdom that says, sometimes we

20:22

wanna read some some stuff that

20:24

stings alone. Right? So the there again, there's,

20:26

like, two phases of this gathering as I'm listening

20:28

to it. So there's, like, this alone part, and then you come

20:30

together and there's choice.

20:32

You can choose which

20:34

one you wanna share. Right? Which one you

20:35

and then there's humor in it. And then

20:37

there's this collective sense much more deeply

20:39

that's like, this is part of teaching. Totally.

20:43

Yes. Oh, wait. We all

20:45

are really never gonna bring this up

20:47

in a faculty meeting. Oh,

20:49

wait. We are all hearing around this

20:51

horrifying sense that our colleagues are better

20:53

than we are at

20:53

this specific thing. You're you know,

20:56

when you said just because we come together every

20:58

Wednesday doesn't I mean, just becomes we

21:00

come together once. It doesn't mean we have to come together

21:02

every Wednesday. Like, I love that so

21:04

much. And I I this is I,

21:06

you know, I make this distinction between

21:09

gathering and community --

21:11

Uh-huh. -- which is, like, gathering

21:13

just sort of, just to set the table, gathering

21:15

is anytime three or

21:15

more people really talking about a group,

21:18

but three or more people come

21:20

together for

21:20

a purpose with the beginning

21:21

middle and end. It ends. It's a moment

21:24

in time.

21:25

whereas a community, you know, communities

21:27

have gatherings and gatherings can

21:29

create

21:29

a sense of community, but there

21:31

are really two separate two

21:34

separate things. you know, gatherings that are

21:36

relevant gatherings that people love have some

21:38

kind of there's a motivating force.

21:40

It's like you kinda like there's an

21:42

energy there. That's also true for

21:44

communities. And communities have

21:46

life cycles. So what

21:48

might be really burning and relevant

21:50

at one moment over five years

21:52

or ten years or two years or three months

21:55

may actually, that need may be

21:57

fulfilled. A few

21:58

years ago, a friend of

21:59

mine's mother told

22:02

me about a gourmand group

22:04

that she'd been a part of for

22:06

like twenty five years.

22:08

A gourmand group didn't know this. Maybe you know this, but It

22:10

was apparently all the rage in the eighties. I mean, it

22:12

was, like, in all of these, like, food magazines, and

22:14

they they kinda took off I when

22:16

I did research the art of gathering, multiple people

22:19

in their sixties and seventies told me

22:21

around the country, told me about this like

22:23

their gourmand group that they're part of. was

22:25

like, okay, tell me more. And

22:27

this woman said to

22:29

me, I was I was in a car with her

22:31

a couple of years ago, pre pandemic,

22:32

and she said, you know, I

22:35

love this group. My husband and I love this

22:37

group. For thirty years, we've

22:39

we've for twenty five years, whatever it was,

22:41

we have rotated

22:42

who hosts this monthly dinner.

22:45

It's helped

22:45

us learn what to cook. It's

22:48

helped we've

22:48

over time, we've seen each other

22:51

raise our children. We've seen each other through

22:53

phases. We've seen each other through divorce.

22:55

We've seen all of the stuff. And

22:57

something kind of sad has happened in the

22:59

last few months. You know, it's like, getting little

23:01

older. Attendance is down. It

23:03

just doesn't really feel like you know

23:05

that same energy at once was. People

23:08

kinda ghosting And I she

23:10

said, and that kinda makes me sad. I don't really know what

23:12

to do. How do I revive it?

23:14

And I said, what if

23:15

you just host? the

23:17

last supper. I

23:21

love

23:21

that. What if it's time to end?

23:24

Yeah. And,

23:25

like, the life came back in her face

23:27

and she said, oh,

23:30

how beautiful And we talked about

23:32

it and I said,

23:33

you know so often like groups

23:35

have their life cycles and maybe

23:36

sometimes you find a new need and you would reinvigorate

23:39

it, but often we don't know when or how

23:41

to end. And so it kinda

23:43

ghost. But how beautiful and

23:45

energizing to come together and have a last supper,

23:47

and maybe it's like the best of

23:49

dishes or and each person talks about

23:51

what this group has meant to them. And

23:53

she was she was so moved, and she

23:55

emailed the group, and she suggested

23:57

the dinner, and then an interesting thing

23:59

happened. They all

23:59

said, no,

23:59

no, no, no.

24:02

We're

24:06

in.

24:06

Yeah. But the cooking

24:08

feels really weighty now that we're in our

24:10

sixties and seventies. Can we shift the model?

24:12

Oh, that's nice. Yeah.

24:15

Right. And so have their own cycles.

24:17

And so often, we need to just pay

24:19

attention, like, when did this gathering

24:22

serve? what do the specifics ritual serve,

24:24

and we don't need to do it forever. But

24:26

if it's still relevant, then do

24:28

it till the calls

24:30

come home. Yeah. That's so good.

24:32

because we have so many people in our community

24:34

who are gatherers.

24:36

There, you know, pastors are

24:38

priests who need a weekly service or people

24:40

who run book clubs or small groups

24:42

or, you know,

24:44

teachers or

24:44

and there's just a lot

24:47

of there's a lot of bringing people together, and I imagine

24:49

a lot of traditions

24:51

and then sometimes ruts

24:53

around things. And

24:55

the way they've always been done.

24:58

There's one common advice

25:00

given to pastors just about to go into

25:02

a new church

25:04

is don't change anything in a year. Like, don't

25:06

move bible. Don't don't

25:07

don't move a chair

25:09

for the love of God. Do not

25:11

tell into any of

25:12

their stuff. and I really

25:14

get the list of the listening

25:17

part of community discernment.

25:19

But every now and now, I think we go

25:22

places where we could add a little life

25:24

and then we think, oh,

25:25

my gosh, I can't touch anything.

25:27

Well,

25:27

what's so interesting about

25:30

that example? is there's

25:32

wisdom in

25:33

there's an there's

25:35

an insight that I hear in there, which

25:38

is people

25:39

are attached to

25:43

certain activities because

25:46

they give them meaning

25:48

or objects

25:49

because they give them

25:51

meaning.

25:52

part of the role of the pastor,

25:54

if you

25:54

want to continue this metaphor, is

25:57

to help with

25:59

care and empathy and precision

26:02

shake loose the object or

26:04

the activity from the

26:06

source of meaning.

26:08

And so when you walk into a place,

26:11

whether you're

26:11

a pastor or a rabbi or

26:13

an imam or a

26:16

choir conductor. To first, what

26:18

I hear in

26:19

that advice is, like, there's an honoring.

26:21

Let me see these people. Let me

26:23

see where they get meaning

26:26

from. Let see what the they do certain things. And

26:28

Chris at Chris atippet has this great line.

26:30

She says, we assume a monolith in

26:33

the other that we know not to be true in

26:35

ourselves. That's so

26:37

good. Like, once you get into a

26:39

church, like any church,

26:41

any any community, There

26:43

are so many divisions. There are

26:45

so many controversies. There are so

26:47

many differences. And there's almost

26:49

always people who have been asking or

26:51

agitating for change for so long. And

26:53

so often the role of a facilitator, a

26:55

small f facilitator, is to kind

26:57

of help with care

27:00

have people Yeah. -- detach

27:02

the specific object or

27:05

activity

27:05

from the meaning that

27:07

it makes from it.

27:19

What's up

27:22

beautiful people? I'm so glad to share

27:24

the good words with Kurt Franklin is

27:26

back with the second season. Good words

27:28

is hosted by your boy, your cousin, your

27:31

nephew, me, your boy, Kirk

27:33

Franklin. And we're gonna be having candid

27:35

conversations about faith Perseverous and the

27:37

realities of today's world with folks

27:39

like Jennifer Lewis, Carmel Brown.

27:41

He under Banzant just

27:43

to name up to you, listen

27:45

and follow on Apple podcasts,

27:47

Spotify, Amazon music, Stitcher,

27:49

or wherever you get your podcast

27:52

from.

27:52

One of the things

27:54

I most drawn to about

27:56

you is your there's

28:00

such vulnerability in what

28:02

you're describing, you really want

28:04

us to be it

28:07

sounds weird to be like, you want us

28:09

to be uncomfortable. But you do. You want us

28:12

to kind of peel

28:14

away a few layers and

28:17

and take a little risk. and that the it

28:19

seems it always when I when I read

28:21

your work, it feels like, oh, there's something.

28:23

There's you're helping us structure

28:26

a discovery. that only happens

28:28

when we put people together. I

28:30

love your your

28:31

framing of of structuring a

28:34

discovery. such

28:36

beautiful language. because

28:37

that's how I feel about a classroom is

28:39

I don't know who's there, but I I know how to

28:41

shape an arc in a class. in set of

28:43

ideas, but the magic for me is that

28:45

when they're there, those I've

28:48

never I've never met

28:50

those people before in that even if I've had that same conversation

28:52

a thousand times, and I

28:54

feel the magic. I Yes. And

28:56

that's the only one I'm good at

28:58

is me trailing off here. But I do know how to

29:00

do a classroom feeling, and I

29:03

thought maybe we could do that for other things,

29:05

I guess, is absolutely. Well,

29:07

I I think there's two discoveries

29:10

I'm trying to help people

29:11

structure. And

29:12

this is where the risk lies.

29:15

The first is structuring a discovery within oneself.

29:18

What is my

29:19

need here? How am

29:21

I

29:21

how am I actually feeling?

29:24

I

29:24

know I'm supposed to be feeling. I'm actually

29:28

feeling. Yeah. Right? You know, how like,

29:30

what is it? I mean, to to just

29:32

the practice of beginning

29:33

to name a want or a

29:36

desire is

29:37

an incredibly vulnerable process. Yep.

29:40

So the first act enabled

29:43

to create an artful, meaningful

29:45

gathering for others is actually pausing

29:47

and structuring that discovery with

29:50

it. And then the

29:52

second risk is then with

29:54

others. Right? Given that, to

29:56

then make stick your neck out, to be

29:58

vulnerable, to take a risk, to say I

29:59

have this, you know, wild idea won't you

30:02

join me, or I have this need, would you

30:04

come around and so

30:06

much of gathering and this is

30:08

frankly true as a guest or a host

30:10

is we're making micro decisions in any moment

30:12

about how to how to

30:14

be. And what I it's not so much

30:16

that I'm like, I think you should be really

30:18

vulnerable. It's more I

30:22

I invite myself and others to be

30:24

really alive, to be really

30:26

present. And I think this is so true in

30:28

your work. This is so deeply embedded

30:30

within Renee Brown's work. It's

30:32

like, to actually be really present is a

30:34

is a is a kind of

30:35

a vulnerable act. because

30:37

at the beginning when

30:38

we talked about

30:40

loneliness, how

30:43

uncomfortable it is to even

30:45

admit that you are lonely. It's

30:47

it's a horrible admission to say

30:50

that you're only because it sounds like

30:52

simultaneously saying that you're unpopular.

30:54

Like, why haven't you solved this

30:56

this easily solvable problem, which is --

30:58

Yes. -- you know, interdependent then

31:00

it turns out interdependence is one of the

31:02

hardest

31:02

things in the whole world, even just

31:05

to know that you need something and then have that

31:08

impossible of texting

31:10

or worse for a whole generation of

31:12

people calling to ask for

31:14

what you want or need in

31:17

any relationship alone

31:18

in a group is

31:20

is an act

31:21

of courage. You know, as we're

31:23

talking, I'm thinking of a friend of

31:26

mine who her father

31:29

died maybe five

31:29

or six years ago. He was an

31:32

Egyptian immigrant to

31:34

Germany. She's

31:35

save

31:35

half German, half

31:38

Egyptian, immigrant to New York.

31:39

Her father passed away.

31:42

She went back to Germany for his

31:44

funeral. She comes back

31:45

to New York, and I check-in on her,

31:47

how are you doing? And she says, you know,

31:50

the funeral was I'm so happy I was there. I saw many of my

31:53

childhood friends. I was there for my

31:55

mother, but I I it's

31:57

a I feel very untethered

31:59

because

31:59

my community, my present

32:02

community didn't know him, wasn't

32:03

part of this funeral. I'm

32:05

not sure what to do about

32:08

that. And long

32:08

story

32:09

short, she, in

32:10

conversation, we kind of

32:13

invented kind of

32:15

a mixed Muslim

32:16

tradition, and then the Jewish tradition of sitting

32:19

shiva, except with her.

32:22

And she invited forty

32:25

friends. As she wrote just in

32:27

an email, she she shared what was going

32:29

on, and she said,

32:31

you know, I would

32:32

love for you to come and just be

32:34

with me this evening. I'd

32:36

love to if it's alright, tell you

32:39

stories about my father and what he meant

32:41

to me. I realize I need

32:43

my community. I know

32:45

it's, you know, maybe a little bit of a strange

32:47

request. Like, come by come at

32:49

six. We'll start the, quote unquote,

32:51

program in my living room at seven and we'll

32:53

feast at nine. And

32:55

people came and

32:57

you know

32:57

we more you know,

32:59

navy and black, and multiple different cultures

33:02

and traditions, and also we live in New York

33:04

City. Most people are transplants.

33:06

And she sat and

33:09

she, you know, I think it

33:09

was seven o'clock. She sat in the middle of the

33:12

room incredibly vulnerable. and

33:14

she played a song that he always

33:16

played in her childhood and then

33:18

he she just told us stories about him and

33:20

showed us photos of men. We laughed and

33:23

we cried And we laughed really hard

33:25

because some we realized,

33:27

like, oh, our friend isn't unique. She's

33:28

just her father's daughter.

33:31

And we've thought of

33:33

all of people that, you know, we've lost and the and

33:35

and and then and again, kind of organically,

33:37

she just sat there at the end of

33:39

it, and she just said, thank you so much

33:41

listening to me, she played the Hadid that he

33:44

would play every morning in the

33:46

shower. And then there was this kind of

33:48

organic response where whoever

33:50

wanted to in the room just aired,

33:52

what it was, you know, what they what it was like for

33:54

them when they lost somebody or what it was

33:56

like when they listened to her, not

33:58

advice, not just sitting together to

33:59

be in community. We

34:02

laughed and we cried and

34:04

it was this again kind of made

34:07

up ritual

34:07

that was so desperately

34:09

relevant. Yeah.

34:11

And it took a risk. It

34:13

was a risk on

34:16

her part. It was a risk on everybody else's part. It was a risk

34:18

in that moment for that first person to then

34:20

respond and say, I

34:22

hear you. when I lost my

34:24

parents or when I listened to, I think of my

34:26

great aunt who no one ever met been so

34:28

deeply shaped me. In fact, this is the

34:30

handbag that I'm carrying. It's from her. Right? She

34:32

gathered us by gathering

34:34

us around a specific need. Whether,

34:36

you know, whether you do something

34:39

as relatively simple. I'm using simple and quotes as

34:41

a catch up tasting party

34:44

or whether something more

34:46

complex as invented

34:48

half Muslim, half Jewish, half German,

34:50

you

34:50

know, half New York, Britain,

34:54

part of part of I,

34:56

you know, I think we're all we're all it's like Victor Franco,

34:58

we're all searching for meaning. And

35:00

in modern life, that meaning

35:03

even more than in

35:05

most times, that meaning

35:07

is no longer as

35:10

inherited as it has been in the

35:12

past. And

35:14

so Part of modern life is the skill of invention. And

35:16

invention starts by just simply seeing

35:18

and observing. What am I experiencing?

35:22

and what is the need here in this community.

35:24

I really like

35:25

that. I really like that.

35:27

And it does not

35:28

need to be fancy. Often, fanciness is

35:32

a image from connection. It's a distraction. It doesn't mean you

35:34

can't have fancy meaningful

35:36

gatherings, but that's not the point. It's not the

35:38

form. Like, this is a

35:40

deeply, deeply democratic skill

35:42

and need. It is deeply accessible. It's

35:44

like that ratatouille anyone can cook, but

35:47

anyone can gather. Oh,

35:49

that's so good, hon. That's so

35:52

accessible. Thank you for doing

35:54

this with me today. What is

35:56

joy? Thank

35:57

you. I forgot to beat you. It's such

35:59

a treat.

35:59

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you

36:02

for your beautiful questions and

36:04

modeling risk

36:06

and and so much

36:06

of what you do and it's really such a treat to be in conversation

36:08

with you. Thank you. I will invite you

36:11

to my

36:11

next mega church gingerbread

36:14

construction party. I am

36:15

so there. I so there.

36:28

Friends,

36:28

I cannot wait to hear about the

36:30

party's you throw and the ways that

36:33

you create meaningful, not

36:35

that fancy gatherings after

36:37

listening to this conversation. Maybe

36:40

even how this inspires you to change how you

36:42

think about doing Thanksgiving or Christmas

36:44

this year, or think of a

36:46

creative way to ask for what you really

36:49

need. Joy in

36:50

the form of off key Christmas

36:52

Carols

36:52

or the presence

36:54

of friends who

36:55

wanna hear about your heart being

36:57

broken, like friend who created her own funeral ritual

37:00

for her dad, or a

37:02

minute

37:03

to to laugh at

37:05

the absurdity of our beautiful, terrible

37:08

life. I know that I have

37:10

some new taste

37:12

test I is brewing. I have this really focused one

37:14

about blue bell ice cream and

37:15

how tired I am about listening

37:17

to the inherent superiority of blue bell

37:19

ice cream. Yeah. Cottake.

37:21

but I'll keep you posted. But today,

37:24

I

37:24

thought maybe we could close with

37:26

a blessing. A blessing that comes

37:28

from our new book of blessings

37:31

Yes, you heard that right. We have been ending our

37:34

episodes with blessings for the

37:36

longest time, and that has been the

37:38

stuff that you write in asking for

37:40

is, hey, where can I have

37:42

some of these? Sometimes

37:44

sad, sometimes hopeful, all of these

37:46

kinds of blessing things. So, hey,

37:49

Jessica Ritchie and I, my

37:50

producer and co author, thought that

37:53

we would write a book just

37:56

of blessings.

37:56

and I'm so excited to let you know that

37:58

it's coming out in February. You can

37:59

preorder it now. If

38:02

you like, It's

38:04

so important to authors that we get pre that people like

38:07

our publishers know that it matters to

38:09

them. So if you're interested,

38:12

it's called the lives

38:13

we actually have. One

38:16

hundred blessings for

38:17

imperfect days. So

38:19

inside you'll find blessings for all our

38:21

regular days or

38:22

regular lives. You know,

38:24

the days that are beautiful or painful

38:28

or ordinary or sometimes

38:30

just straight up garbage.

38:32

And to celebrate all

38:34

of our future meaningful gatherings,

38:36

Let's do this. Here

38:39

is

38:39

a blessing for being around the

38:41

table with each other at last.

38:44

Alright?

38:45

There

38:46

we go. God,

38:48

awaken us to

38:49

the everyday miracle of

38:51

a simple meal. Whether it's

38:53

takeout

38:53

that took a

38:56

phone call a recipe that took an entire afternoon

38:57

or the cereal for

38:59

dinner again feeling this meal

39:01

creates, bless

39:02

and all it all. So

39:04

blessed are we sharing a meal today? May

39:07

we recognize God's goodness in

39:09

the thoughtful preparation

39:12

in the delivering, in the eating together, savoring

39:15

something that tastes like

39:18

love. May our time around the table be

39:20

a gift? May

39:23

we be present to one another, engaging all our senses as

39:25

an act of thankful worship to

39:27

the nourishment that's before us with

39:29

the people we

39:32

love. or

39:33

are trying to. God bless the hands

39:35

that prepared this, those with us now

39:37

and the ones we

39:40

wish were. and

39:41

bless us, oh god, in all of

39:43

our eating and cooking and gathering and

39:46

sharing. Our jokes,

39:47

talking with our mouths full,

39:49

the elbows on the table,

39:51

May we see and taste the love

39:53

that multiplies? Oh,

39:56

man.

39:58

Thank

39:58

you Hi. My

39:59

name is Kate Sincic. I'm calling

40:02

from Novae, Michigan, and

40:04

a very special unique

40:06

gathering that I once attended was

40:09

the 80th birthday party for a very dear

40:12

friend. She

40:14

chose to

40:14

invite people who had

40:16

been a special part of her life

40:19

from each decade throughout her

40:21

life. So she had people

40:23

from ages one to

40:25

ten, most being her

40:27

brothers and siblings. she had people from ten to

40:29

twenty all the way up her 80th year.

40:32

And it was

40:32

just such a special

40:33

celebration to get to know who she was

40:35

at the various

40:38

decades of her life and to talk with different people and

40:40

to hear stories shared

40:42

about what was so

40:44

meaningful

40:44

about her and the impact that she

40:48

had had on each of our lives during

40:50

those decades where we

40:52

had the great opportunity to share

40:55

life with her. great way to celebrate and

40:57

honor anybody on a very significant

41:00

earth day.

41:03

Hi,

41:03

Kate. This is Savannah

41:05

Glover on calling from Salisbury,

41:08

North Carolina. So when I was

41:10

diagnosed with

41:10

a grade

41:11

four glioblastoma. The doctors told me

41:13

that the tumor before it was removed

41:15

was the

41:16

size of a

41:18

grapefruit. So I

41:19

threw a grapefruit party and

41:22

invited a lot of my friends

41:24

who had stood by me

41:27

during my diagnosis season in my

41:29

journey. And we had grapefruit cocktails

41:31

and

41:34

grapefruit

41:34

desserts and snacks and

41:37

all kinds of different stuff. Everybody

41:39

wore pink or orange to look like

41:41

a grapefruit. We hung up dried

41:44

grapefords on the wall, and

41:46

we did everything we

41:48

could to make it feel happy

41:50

and celebratory

41:51

of not only

41:52

the journey that I had been

41:54

on, but I also wanted to honor. celebrate

41:56

the people who had walked alongside

41:59

me during some really hard

42:02

times. And

42:04

so we we're

42:06

successful

42:06

in our

42:07

comfort theme, and maybe

42:09

one of these days, we'll do it

42:11

all again

42:12

are you from turn

42:14

sometime. Hi, Kate. This is

42:15

Regina from Coopersburg, Pennsylvania.

42:18

So I turned forty in

42:20

October of twenty twenty. The way that the

42:22

pandemic was heavy.

42:24

I have a high risk heart condition and

42:26

we were still social distancing and

42:28

really being super careful about gathering.

42:31

So the original plan, pre pandemic, for

42:33

my 40th, was to take an epic

42:35

trip through the Champagne region of France

42:38

and provence and drink so much

42:40

wine and eat so much cheese. But of

42:42

course, that triple canceled along with

42:44

everyone else's plans for what seemed

42:46

like eternity. So my husband and I

42:48

decided we were just going to have a very

42:50

small backyard gathering with

42:52

about five of my

42:53

very closest friends. Then on

42:55

the morning of my 40th birthday,

42:58

my ninety eight year old grandmother died of

43:00

complications related

43:02

to COVID. I hadn't been able to

43:04

see her since the start of the pandemic and the sadness

43:06

and grief that I felt that day.

43:10

overwhelmed me. So

43:12

no way was I having a party,

43:14

even one with my closest friends,

43:16

I was I was out.

43:18

but my husband insisted and wanting to make the date super

43:21

special, but way more cheese and

43:23

way, way more champagne.

43:26

than any smaller group of people should ever consume. He said, well,

43:28

if you can't be in France, let's bring

43:30

France to you. Right? So

43:33

we run a house at the party and I can't

43:35

think of a more meaningful party

43:37

than one. You spend with your sweetest

43:39

friends who know you, and know

43:41

exactly what you need and how to make you

43:44

smile, even on your

43:46

best, worst

43:48

days Hi, Kate Boehler.

43:49

It's Marsha McPhee. I want to tell you

43:51

about my dear friend, miss Niner

43:53

Reeves. And she taught me

43:55

this table blessing. she

43:58

was a beloved use director in

44:01

Alabama for decades. And the

44:03

first time I had lunch

44:05

with her, she said to me

44:07

across the table in a restaurant, Marsha, whenever me and my interface

44:10

friends get together, the

44:12

words just getting

44:14

our way. So we

44:15

just lift the plate.

44:17

And so ever

44:18

since then, I've been teaching everyone

44:20

at any gathering to

44:23

lift the plate and simply say grateful. It's kind of like

44:25

a a food toast and

44:28

the delight is always palpable.

44:30

how cool people

44:32

are smiling and I think just grateful that

44:34

nobody's going to pray a long prayer with

44:36

perhaps cringe worthy theology. So

44:39

there you I lift the plate and

44:42

say grateful.

44:42

A

44:48

really

44:49

special thank you to our

44:51

generous partners

44:51

who make this work

44:54

possible. Lillian,

44:54

dowment, the duke endowment, duke

44:57

divinity

44:57

school and leadership

44:59

education. And to my wonderful

45:02

team, Jessica

45:02

Ritchie, Harriet Putman, when

45:04

Higginbotham, Brenda

45:07

Thompson, Keith Weston, Jeb,

45:09

and Sammy.

45:10

the Thank you.

45:12

I would love to hear what you thought about this episode. Would you do

45:14

me a favor and leave a review on

45:17

Apple podcasts? It really, really

45:19

means a lot to us when we

45:21

get to hear what we do well and also might even do better. You

45:24

can also leave us a voice mail and who

45:26

knows? We might

45:28

even be to use your

45:30

voice on the air. Call us at 9193228731

45:32

Alright,

45:37

lovelies. I'll talk to you

45:37

next week. But in the meantime,

45:40

come find me online at Kate

45:42

SeeBowler. This

45:44

is Everything happens

45:46

but me with me, capable.