0:00

I can say to my new

0:02

Samsung Galaxy S-25 Ultra, hey, find

0:04

a keto-friendly restaurant nearby and text

0:06

it to Beth and Steve. And

0:08

it does without me lifting a

0:10

finger. So I can get in

0:12

more squats anywhere I can. One.

0:14

Two. Three. Will that be cash or

0:16

credit? Credit. Four. Galaxy S-25

0:18

Ultra, the AI companion that does the

0:21

heavy lifting, so you can do you.

0:23

Get yours at Samsung.com. Compatible, select, ash

0:25

requires Google Gemini account results may vary

0:27

based on input, check responses for accuracy.

0:30

Have I got news for you is

0:32

back for another season. Roy Wood Jr.

0:34

Amber Ruffin and Michael Ian Black are

0:36

finding of funny in the week's biggest

0:39

stories. Have I got news for you?

0:41

Return Saturday at 9 on CNN and

0:43

stream next day on Max. Okay,

0:45

hi guys, welcome back to

0:47

X's and O's. I'm your

0:50

host Shannon Beverage

0:52

and What a week? What

0:54

a week? Last week's episode

0:56

came out on Wednesday and

0:59

if you watched Then you

1:01

know I film my intro

1:03

on Tuesday earlier on in

1:05

the day, so I did

1:07

not know what the outcome

1:10

of the election was

1:12

and Obviously Now,

1:14

I do, and I feel I,

1:16

like many other people,

1:18

spent last week kind

1:20

of morning. Yeah, just

1:23

morning in general.

1:25

M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G, just to be

1:27

clear. But now today is

1:30

actually Monday, and I feel

1:32

like it's like, okay, I

1:34

guess we need to get back

1:36

to it, because there's

1:38

so much work to do.

1:41

clearly so much work to

1:43

do but there's still like

1:45

just like a huge sadness

1:47

and like I think like the

1:49

worst thing no there's no

1:52

let's not put any

1:54

superlatives superlatives on this

1:56

I think a terrible

1:58

terrible thing is is

2:00

having so much hope

2:03

in any scenario when you have hope

2:05

for something new, something

2:07

we never had before.

2:09

And then it gets ripped

2:11

out from underneath you. That's

2:13

like a huge element of sadness.

2:15

And then there's obviously

2:17

like the sadness that

2:19

how much he won the

2:22

election by. And

2:24

then you're like, oh, it's

2:27

like, you know, you knew

2:29

that that might be happening,

2:31

but you hoped it wasn't happening. And

2:33

then you were like also just like

2:36

hoping like, oh my God, what if

2:38

we have our first black female president? And

2:41

then it's like, no, you're not getting that. And

2:43

not only you're not getting that, you didn't get

2:45

it by a lot. And also you lost the

2:48

house and the Senate. Oh,

2:51

it's just so, it's so

2:53

disheartening. And I don't want to be,

2:57

I want my podcast to be

2:59

a hopeful place. I hope that it

3:02

can be in some ways a distraction,

3:04

but in other ways, not a distraction

3:06

because I will continue to have conversations

3:08

about queer people and about queer people

3:10

in America and what this presidency will

3:12

mean for queer people in America. So

3:14

like, it won't be a distraction necessarily,

3:16

but I also do want it to

3:18

be like a joyful experience. And I

3:20

obviously realized that I'm not feeling that

3:23

good right now. I

3:25

have felt better before. So

3:29

I guess, I don't know. I mean, if

3:31

you are feeling lonely, sad, scared,

3:34

bad, not good, I

3:36

see you, I love you, I

3:38

feel you. To my trans

3:40

followers in America, if

3:43

you are feeling especially scared

3:45

and lonely and sad

3:47

and bad, I

3:50

feel you. I'm so, I feel

3:52

also so scared for what

3:54

could happen in the next four

3:56

years. Obviously, Trump has already

3:58

come out and said. some pretty wild

4:01

stuff regarding the trans community and

4:03

what he plans to do day

4:05

one in his presidency like as

4:07

if there aren't more pressing issues

4:09

to this country but I can't

4:11

have a podcast about queer relationships

4:14

and sex and not I guess

4:16

like at least address these feelings

4:18

that I'm having and like no let you

4:20

know that I'm on your side through and

4:23

through and like the next four years

4:25

I I will be here fighting for your

4:27

rights and my own rights. However

4:29

I can, in whatever capacity

4:32

I can, and just

4:34

know that you're not

4:36

alone, I will just say,

4:38

queer people have persevered

4:41

for years, for hundreds

4:43

of years, we have

4:45

existed, whether people

4:48

want us to or not. We

4:50

have been here, we will be

4:52

here, no matter what. We are

4:55

a strong, fucking group of people.

4:57

We are a strong group of

4:59

people. If you are a queer

5:01

person and you are out and living

5:04

your life and alive and like

5:06

persevering and not giving up, you

5:08

are a strong person. You are a

5:10

strong person wherever you are. I don't

5:12

care if you grew up in like

5:15

the most like liberal house ever or

5:17

the most conservative, the most backwards, the

5:19

most. You are a strong person. You

5:21

are a very strong person. And

5:24

I hope if we can do one

5:26

thing. It is that we will continue

5:28

to live, live. Every day you wake

5:30

up, every single day you wake

5:33

up, it is like, it is us, it's

5:35

a tiny form of protest. Like

5:37

you are literally, you are

5:39

so strong and amazing and

5:41

amazing and amazing to grow

5:44

up and live in a world

5:46

that constantly is trying to tell

5:48

you to be different than you

5:51

are and you don't stop. So

5:53

don't stop. Don't stop. That's what

5:55

I know for sure we can try

5:57

to do for the next four years.

6:01

not to give up. That's

6:04

what I'm gonna try to do for the

6:06

next four years and keep talking about these

6:08

things and keep demanding rights for the people

6:10

that I love. And

6:15

yeah, we've been here

6:18

forever and we're not going

6:20

anywhere. So I love you guys. I

6:22

love you, I love you, I love you, I love

6:24

you, I love you. I don't know how well -spoken

6:26

any of that is or just was but I hope

6:28

you understand what I'm saying, what

6:30

I mean and give me grace

6:32

cause I am

6:34

feeling terrible, honestly terrible.

6:36

But I hope you

6:38

enjoy this week's episode. Disclaimer,

6:41

this episode was also filmed

6:43

before the election news was

6:45

out. So I also want to

6:47

say I adore the guests this week.

6:49

Nemo is so cool and so fun. So

6:51

check out all their socials below and

6:53

all their music below. It will be, guess

6:56

what? Below, okay. Ily,

6:59

bye. ["Iconic"]

7:06

Okay, hi guys, welcome back to

7:08

X's and O's. I'm your host,

7:11

Shannon Beverage and today's guest is

7:13

Iconic. Their name is Nemo. They

7:15

just won Eurovision 2024 in May.

7:17

They are the first non

7:19

-binary person to ever win

7:21

Eurovision, which is so cool.

7:23

We go into a little

7:25

bit of detail about what Eurovision

7:27

is if you're not aware.

7:29

It's similar -ish to American Idol

7:31

and the Super Bowl, basically. So you'll hear

7:33

more in this episode where we explain

7:35

it. But I was so happy to sit

7:37

down with Nemo. They won with their

7:39

song, The Code, which explains kind of their

7:41

journey with gender and their gender fluidity.

7:43

And now they're working on a new artist

7:45

project. They just had a song come

7:48

out called EuroStar. They have an amazing music

7:50

video for it. That's out now. You

7:52

should check it out. But yeah, I hope

7:54

you enjoy this conversation with me and

7:56

Nemo. They are so cool. Enjoy.

7:58

Enjoy. Can

8:05

you, for like Americans,

8:07

just explain Eurovision like quickly? Because

8:09

I feel like I know what

8:11

it is, but they might not. Okay,

8:14

I'll try my best.

8:16

So I would say Eurovision

8:18

is kind of like the Olympics

8:20

for music. Yeah, yeah. In

8:22

a way. Except like,

8:24

I feel like the Olympics

8:26

are like way more

8:29

competitive. And it's like super

8:31

about like, like,

8:33

also like national pride. And

8:35

I think like that sometimes kind of happens

8:37

with like people being like, oh,

8:39

like we won like Switzerland won

8:42

by just kind of like more,

8:44

it has more like of a

8:46

connecting kind of building bridges factor.

8:48

And so how the concept works

8:50

is like every country from Europe

8:52

that is in Eurovision gets

8:54

to send like

8:57

one artist. And this

8:59

is yearly, right? Exactly. And

9:01

they get to pick an

9:04

artist however they want. Like some

9:06

countries like just, I don't

9:08

know, like the national broadcaster kind of

9:10

chooses an artist and gets them paired

9:12

with a song. And then other countries

9:14

kind of have like a selection process or

9:16

even like a TV show for

9:18

it to find. To go

9:20

into that. Exactly. And then

9:22

they sent their artist and

9:25

they meet up in

9:27

a city in Europe.

9:30

It's the city of a

9:32

country that has won Eurovision the

9:34

year before. Got it. So you'll host,

9:36

Switzerland will host next year. Exactly. Yeah. So

9:38

it's kind of like a, I don't know

9:40

what you call it. Yeah. It's

9:44

literally, it's giving Olympics a little bit

9:46

too. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

9:48

And so everyone meets

9:50

up kind of like

9:52

two weeks before there's like

9:54

rehearsals. Like usually like

9:56

you work beforehand kind of

9:58

like. kind of doing

10:01

the staging with like you meet up with

10:03

a director or something and you get you

10:06

get the chance to like think

10:08

about your staging but like you

10:10

show up there like two weeks

10:12

before and you rehearse like there's

10:14

like tons of interviews you get

10:16

like thrown into like this whole

10:18

like whirlwind

10:20

basically and um

10:22

then there's like a semi

10:24

-final where you perform you

10:26

always perform one song one song

10:29

yeah yeah so you have your

10:31

song you go to the semi

10:33

-final and it's really not only

10:35

just about the song it's also about like

10:37

the performance and like your potential is like

10:39

an artist also exactly kind of like

10:41

it's like everything like the full package

10:43

so like the staging really matters

10:45

like what happens on stage like

10:47

there's like super big

10:50

like budgets for stage

10:52

really staging usually does the

10:54

country provide the budget or is it

10:56

everyone are you on a fair

10:58

playing ground with everyone actually that's a

11:00

really good point because it's not

11:02

really fair because it really depends

11:04

on the country like each

11:06

country like has their own rules

11:09

and like some countries kind

11:11

of like have a big budget

11:13

for like I think

11:15

like the the biggest

11:17

countries are like France

11:19

UK Germany and Italy

11:21

and so I think they have like

11:24

the biggest budget per like year

11:26

and then there's like other

11:28

ones I I don't really know like all

11:30

the details but I feel like you really get it

11:32

like once you're in there like you know you

11:34

get to know so much about the world but

11:38

so yeah some some some labels

11:40

come up with like money because

11:42

there's like an interest of labels

11:44

also yeah because you're you're on like a

11:46

world stage so you're getting potentially a huge

11:48

fan base just from the exposure alone so

11:50

they're like okay what if we just give

11:52

them all the money yeah and they would

11:54

yeah I don't know how many people like watch

11:56

the Super Bowl do you know

11:58

that I don't Yeah, that's kind

12:01

of like what people like compare it

12:03

to like sometimes like they say like it's kind of

12:05

like in a similar Right, like

12:07

I think like 200 million

12:09

people like watch the final

12:11

and Yeah,

12:13

so obviously like labels are aware of

12:15

that and they chip in like some

12:18

money as well for the performance but

12:20

whatever like it's just like

12:22

a giant kind of

12:24

platform in a way and

12:26

and also kind of the Technicalities

12:28

of it are very Interesting because

12:30

like they set up like

12:32

the stage. There's like 26. I

12:36

Think acts in the in the

12:38

in the final and the whole

12:40

show is like three hours long

12:42

With the voting fast. I feel

12:44

it's like yeah, but the changeover

12:46

is like 40 seconds What out

12:48

and in okay all the stage

12:50

props all the like lighting

12:52

cameras the most like intense

12:55

concert of all time Diverse

12:57

concert of all time. Yes, it

12:59

is like and on TV. It looks

13:01

like Like you don't

13:04

see the effort like you don't

13:06

but it's actually yeah, it's cooler to

13:08

like watch it like in the

13:10

stadium because like you see all the

13:12

like Craziness of it like pandemonium. Yeah,

13:14

and you won. Yes

13:16

I won, that's the weirdest part of

13:19

it. And you won. Which is... it all

13:21

singular artists, there's like bands

13:23

too, right? Yeah, there's the

13:25

maximum of Six people

13:27

on stage. Okay. That's the

13:29

rules. Yeah, that's it. Did anyone

13:31

like really did like

13:34

Abadou Eurovision Aba Abadou

13:36

Eurovision exactly Yeah, who

13:38

could Americans

13:42

No way. Yeah, silly silly

13:44

Indian friends, Switzerland. What

13:46

she was the last person

13:48

to win for Switzerland And now you

13:50

yeah, that's so cool. It doesn't

13:52

make a lot of sense because she's

13:56

Yeah, what I don't know

13:58

like I I feel like this She bypassed

14:00

some rule there. They're like, we'll

14:02

take you I feel I know like

14:04

one Swiss person helped write the

14:06

song Okay, and that's why and then

14:08

she got to do it probably.

14:10

I don't know how to work crazy

14:12

Well, I think like wrongly we

14:14

compare Eurovision to American Idol like Americans

14:16

are comparing to that and it's

14:18

not very different Yeah, because I feel

14:20

like American Idol is kind of What's

14:24

also covers that alone. I think

14:26

you know Changes it completely.

14:28

Yeah, and oftentimes like people that

14:30

participate Eurovision are like artists with

14:32

like a legacy already like

14:34

so so countries will like

14:36

Give this platform to like someone

14:38

that is already like a superstar basically

14:40

in their own country. Yeah in

14:42

a way So I think it's kind

14:44

of like American Idol is about finding kind

14:47

of like new talent Yeah, and

14:49

Eurovision is more

14:51

about showcasing Country kind

14:53

of Cuz you'd already won

14:55

awards and stuff in Switzerland

14:57

before right? Yes So I

14:59

did like Swiss German music before

15:01

I sang in English and that was

15:04

kind of like my first Yeah,

15:06

my first career in a way and then I

15:08

did English songs, but it's

15:11

really hard like kind of

15:13

getting out of Switzerland with

15:15

English music because there's the

15:17

Swiss market is very small.

15:19

Yeah, and People

15:22

in Switzerland, I would say are not

15:26

They kind of they're not

15:28

really interested in their own artists in

15:30

a way like they're it's more an import

15:33

Yeah music country in a way, so

15:35

I feel like We

15:38

listen to a lot of US music

15:40

or English music or

15:42

German music, but we don't really

15:44

it's already hard to kind of

15:46

make it in Switzerland Yeah,

15:49

and So it's like

15:51

there's not really a platform to kind

15:53

of grow an artist in Switzerland and then

15:56

expand out. Yeah, exactly. So you kind of

15:58

have to make it somewhere else Yeah,

16:00

first or make it on Eurovision

16:02

or make it on Eurovision. Exactly.

16:04

No. So yeah, that's kind of

16:06

I mean, yeah It's it's been

16:08

a huge Thing up for me

16:10

like it's amazing change a lot. Oh

16:13

Sheet honey chill. It's just laundry

16:15

not that I'm talking about these

16:17

arm and hammer power sheets all

16:19

the power of arm and hammer

16:21

Laundry detergent in a convenient tossable

16:23

sheet. Oh Sheet that's what I'm

16:26

saying and arm and hammer power

16:28

sheets deliver an effective clean at

16:30

a great price Think of all

16:32

the laundry will do and all

16:34

the money will save. Oh Sheet

16:36

arm and hammer more power to

16:38

you Did

16:40

you go into it thinking you

16:42

even like had the chance of winning

16:45

did you Hmm, I don't know

16:47

you don't really think of it. I

16:49

didn't really think of it that

16:51

way I was like this is an

16:53

experience that is like so Odd

16:56

and cool and like has like I

16:58

was really intrigued by a lot of

17:00

things I think like first of all,

17:02

I feel like it has like such

17:04

a strong like Impact

17:07

and it was always like

17:09

such a safe space for queer

17:11

people really and yeah, I

17:13

mean obviously it it went with

17:15

the times and and It

17:17

wasn't like it was always openly

17:19

queer, but there was always

17:22

kind of like this Appreciation in

17:24

the queer community for it.

17:26

Even if it wasn't like openly

17:28

that way and like at

17:30

ten ten years ago like a

17:32

drag queen won like The

17:35

contest no, I don't know

17:37

if you know her like

17:39

it was like this huge

17:41

moment And it's like kind

17:43

of has like such a

17:45

cultural impact that like Countries

17:47

like start talking it like

17:49

it becomes almost like political

17:51

in a way Like so

17:53

it's like it people start

17:55

talking about it becomes like

17:57

the social discourse But also

17:59

it was just like it

18:02

was always like a home

18:04

for just the queer community

18:06

It makes sense because it's the arts in general if

18:08

you think about it. Exactly. Like we're championing the arts

18:10

all the time. Also it does make sense that it

18:12

becomes political because it's like your world stage, like Europe's

18:14

world stage, versus like even in America, like our

18:16

American Idol, like the only thing

18:18

that's like similar about it is

18:20

that it's drawing in all of America's like

18:22

viewership? Yeah. You know what I mean? Not

18:25

really anymore. Okay, but it used

18:27

to be like it was like this

18:29

prestigious Totally and everyone was watching

18:31

so then there was room to

18:33

make political statements Through it with

18:36

like undertones and everything. Wow, so

18:38

I think that part is similar

18:40

But that's great. I didn't know like

18:42

some people I would know like from

18:45

Kelly Clarkson. Okay. Wow. Okay. Who else

18:47

won Rebecca? Jennifer Hudson was on but

18:49

you didn't win But is that like

18:51

the X factor or is that kind

18:54

of like similar? Where are you on

18:56

the X factor too? No, no, I was on

18:58

something called the biggest Swiss town. That's

19:00

literally what it's called. You were like

19:03

born for TV. You're like, oh my

19:05

God, what am I like, God, I

19:07

don't know. Yeah, I was like 15.

19:09

So I don't know what I don't

19:11

know what I did there. You've been

19:14

doing music for a long time. Like

19:16

since you were three. Like since you were

19:18

three. Good. It sounds like on

19:21

this musical genius, but I'm

19:23

actually not, yeah, I gave

19:25

it, I gave it a

19:27

shot. Yeah. That's got to

19:29

be, how has it been,

19:31

okay, first of all, it

19:33

was so bad-ass that you,

19:35

you snuck the non-binary flag

19:37

on stage. Can you tell that

19:40

story? Yeah. So I, like, it

19:42

was a very, like this.

19:44

this year was kind of

19:46

controversial in a lot of

19:48

senses and it was a very

19:50

kind of tense environment

19:53

backstage and I was

19:55

like like like you mean

19:58

between like the contestants

20:00

and producers or like between

20:02

contestants and contestants or no kind

20:04

of like, yeah, a lot of

20:06

things like it was just chaos

20:08

and I mean, yeah, we that's

20:10

a detail we can go into

20:12

afterwards. But like, I was like

20:14

backstage and there's like this moment

20:16

called like flag parade. And

20:18

that's like, it's like

20:20

kind of I was like, that

20:22

was kind of the part I was like,

20:24

most because

20:26

it's like all the like

20:28

all the contestants just hold

20:31

like their national flag and

20:33

it's kind of like, what

20:35

am I doing? Like, I'm

20:37

not really a patriotic. I

20:39

don't know what you call that

20:41

in Switzerland. But

20:43

yeah, so I was like,

20:45

how can I like make

20:47

this kind of authentic for me? And

20:49

how can I feel like comfortable doing

20:51

this? And so I wanted to like, bring

20:54

my non binary flag that I had

20:56

and I did it like, I think

20:58

that the rehearsals or so and then

21:00

I went back and then like, someone

21:03

came up to me and was like,

21:05

you can't do that. Like, okay. And

21:07

I was like, why? Like, that's so

21:09

like, what is that like, so

21:11

interesting to like, I feel like people

21:13

would be like, cool. What? Yeah. And

21:15

I'm like, there's no reason for it.

21:18

Like, I'm not like harming anyone

21:20

or like, I'm not like, how

21:22

could this even be like, controversial?

21:25

And so I was like, I'm not going

21:27

to like, make a big fuss out of

21:29

it, or else they'll kind of like, keep

21:31

a very close eye on it. I

21:33

was just like, okay, yeah, and

21:35

then I just like wrapped it in

21:37

my switch and took it out

21:39

when I was like on stage. So

21:41

I got it. And and afterwards

21:43

they were like, no, you were always

21:46

allowed to do that. That's what

21:48

they said in the press call. Like,

21:50

like in an official press event.

21:52

Yeah. And I was like, so why

21:54

did you tell me I can't

21:56

do it? Sure. Yeah. But yeah, I

21:58

mean, how to

22:00

do things, I guess. Yeah, and also you're

22:02

supposed to be showing something you're

22:04

proud of, which why not both? Yeah,

22:06

exactly. Why can't I do both

22:08

things? How was being non -binary on

22:10

that show where people respectful of your

22:12

pronouns or were they getting it,

22:14

or how was that? And also,

22:16

what do they do for, what

22:19

language? When you're watching it in

22:21

Switzerland, they're doing it in Swiss,

22:23

and then Swiss? Swiss,

22:25

yeah, Swiss German, Swiss German. And

22:27

then if you're in Italy, it's

22:29

in Italian? Yeah, I Is the

22:31

broadcast? They're commentating in the language

22:33

of the national broadcaster.

22:35

So I don't know if

22:37

I got misgendered in other

22:40

languages. That's so interesting. I

22:42

mean, in Switzerland, I just

22:44

know it, because we don't

22:46

really have an established

22:48

gender -neutral pronoun in German.

22:50

There's a few different

22:52

approaches to it, and

22:54

all of them work

22:56

for me. Kind of what's the

22:58

easiest, right? I was just using

23:00

the name instead of the pronoun.

23:03

It was very interesting kind of

23:05

seeing, because it's really

23:07

not established in Switzerland, and so

23:09

many people are just never really

23:11

cared. And suddenly it was announced

23:13

that I'm going, and I was

23:16

kind of already known in Switzerland,

23:18

and also that I'm non

23:20

-binary was known. So you see

23:22

all these hosts kind of struggling

23:24

with it, and trying, and I

23:26

feel like there was a real

23:28

going for it, and trying, and

23:30

I feel like that was really

23:32

cool to see. And to

23:34

see that change is possible

23:36

at Eurovision itself. I

23:39

think the Eurovision team is

23:41

a very diverse and

23:44

young kind of team, and very, as

23:46

I said, also very, I feel like

23:48

a lot of queer people are working

23:50

there as well, so I felt like,

23:52

oh, it's super comfortable there in my

23:54

team, which is like, you

23:56

go with a Swiss, you go with

23:59

your delegation. it and it sounds

24:01

like the Hunger Games. It is

24:03

the Hunger Games. I'm telling you, it's

24:05

literally the Hunger Games. Like I

24:07

had so many moments where I thought

24:09

like I'm like in the Hunger Games.

24:11

Like there's this moment like in the

24:13

final when the voting is over where

24:15

like this giant LED screen opens up

24:17

and you see like the the people

24:20

like the audience in the arena and

24:22

you're like it feels like you know

24:24

the moment you're going off like the

24:26

kindness of PETA like a going like

24:28

they're riding on their carriages literally that

24:30

and every time we like locked

24:33

in with like our badges

24:35

there was like this dystopian

24:37

voice like automatic voice like recognition

24:40

success stop recognition it was like

24:42

it had so many like

24:44

Hunger Games like things there like

24:46

so it's funny that you're

24:48

saying that it seems like it

24:50

also looked like it and

24:52

also the like there's like the

24:54

booths that you guys are

24:56

like sitting in kind of and

24:58

that part felt very Olympic

25:00

it reminds me of watching the

25:02

figure skaters in the Olympics you know how they're

25:05

like in those little booths sitting there and

25:07

it'll go to like a press conference and they're

25:09

like and these are the scores

25:11

coming in and you you won by

25:13

a lot no um do you

25:15

know how much I I

25:18

want like it was a is there

25:20

like a popular vote is it

25:22

like also like it's like there's a pop

25:24

is a whole system so there's like a

25:26

jury vote okay and a popular vote and

25:28

so I

25:31

got like a

25:33

very very good jury vote okay

25:35

and I was like fifth

25:37

with the popular vote okay

25:39

so that was also like

25:41

a controversial thing because people

25:44

are like like why does the

25:46

jury like it's 50 50 why does the

25:48

jury like matter so much but I had

25:50

like such a high jury vote I think

25:52

no one has ever had like you

25:54

like that's the thing I saw

25:56

which was like you were at least

25:58

double the amount of points everyone below

26:00

you. Yes. From that part

26:02

of it. Yeah, from that part. And

26:05

then the public vote kind of took

26:07

me a bit down, but I was

26:09

still like, yeah, Croatia was second

26:12

with the act, baby lasagna.

26:14

Is that the artist's name? Yeah. Like

26:16

your vision is so camp. Like it's

26:18

so camp. Yeah. It does seem that

26:21

way. Yeah. Oh my God. Okay, well,

26:23

you won, which is all that matters.

26:25

But do you think did the popular

26:27

vote? Do you think anything, do

26:30

you think, had that had anything

26:32

to do with your queerness?

26:34

Maybe, I think so, yeah,

26:36

I think so actually because,

26:38

I mean, I got so much

26:40

like love, like throughout this whole

26:42

process, but there was also like

26:45

so much like hate and like,

26:47

like, like waves of like, just

26:49

people like commenting on like,

26:51

like, just my skirt or that

26:54

I wore there or like things

26:56

like that and it's like. I

26:58

think that probably had like such

27:00

an impact I can imagine

27:02

as well like but it was

27:05

also like it was such a

27:07

cool like I just always imagine

27:09

like a family like watching

27:11

this like imagining the

27:14

people in front of the

27:16

TV screens and like I

27:18

don't know like like the the dad

27:20

like screaming at like the two

27:22

screen and this is like a

27:25

disgrace and then like the kids

27:27

secretly like being like trans or

27:29

like not why themselves like just

27:32

kind of like imagine like these

27:34

like family like dynamics in front

27:36

of the screen and like I think

27:38

things like that really change how

27:40

we think about certain things, even if

27:43

they do it slowly. Yeah, totally, no.

27:45

You have to be exposed to it in

27:47

a way. So, yeah, but I don't know.

27:49

I mean, like, I don't know the statistics

27:51

of that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but definitely

27:53

like pushes the needle. Also just

27:56

like, it's kind of just people

27:58

knowing queer people at all. think

28:00

helps people understand and like love

28:02

queer people especially obviously when you're

28:05

in someone's life you know but when

28:07

you're just in someone's living room even you're

28:09

making a difference because they maybe would have

28:11

never had to see you like they never

28:13

would have had to see a non-binary person

28:15

and then they're like okay now I have

28:17

to process my feelings about this whether they're

28:20

good or bad the fact that you have

28:22

to do it at all is more than

28:24

what we have had in the past and

28:26

also I think just in general across the

28:28

world right now like with transness there's so

28:30

little knowledge and so many people being

28:32

exposed to it for the first

28:34

time which is also probably why

28:36

we're getting so much hatred but

28:38

yes definitely yeah it's definitely I

28:41

think is one of those things

28:43

that's going to take time for people

28:45

to totally understand and accept even

28:47

the way it took so long

28:49

for just like sexuality at all

28:52

to be like understood and accepted

28:54

at all like at all

28:56

totally gonna take time yeah

28:58

and that's why yeah that's

29:01

exactly why visibility

29:03

is so important yeah and

29:06

you came out in 2023 yes yeah

29:08

in in autumn yeah through a

29:10

song and yeah you know you've

29:12

done your homework well this

29:14

song is so beautiful and

29:17

I your caption you wrote

29:19

on Instagram I think you

29:21

said you think of gender

29:23

like a galaxy and you're

29:26

just a star somewhere in

29:28

it yeah how did you come to

29:30

that feeling like what made you

29:32

feel that way I think just

29:34

I think a lot for me

29:36

was like moving to Berlin

29:38

and kind of having like

29:41

my first finding like my

29:43

first queer spaces and

29:46

like really feeling comfortable

29:48

enough to kind of let

29:50

my guards down and like opening

29:52

up like I am like one

29:55

of the biggest like

29:57

blessings for me in Berlin was

29:59

like I went to, I don't

30:01

know, it was like 20, 2021,

30:03

like right, like right when

30:05

I moved and I wanted

30:08

to get my nails done

30:10

for a music video that

30:12

I was shooting and I

30:14

asked a bunch of friends

30:16

that I knew in Berlin

30:19

for a nail salon and

30:21

they recommended me like Tom's

30:23

place and I just showed

30:25

up there and... Toms was

30:27

like then living with his

30:30

partner in like a small

30:32

apartment like with kind of

30:34

like you come in like the dog

30:36

barks at you and then

30:38

there's like a kitchen and

30:40

that's the nail studio and

30:42

they were both trans and

30:44

and they like it was

30:46

like this beautiful space of like

30:49

people just walking in and out

30:51

and kind of like a sense

30:53

of like such a strong community

30:56

and I just went there and

30:58

I was like whoa like this is

31:00

I feel so comfortable and I feel

31:02

so accepted like without even

31:05

exactly knowing what was like

31:07

going on and that I had

31:09

like I went there like every

31:11

two to three weeks after that

31:13

was like and I went more

31:15

for like the conversations and like

31:17

for the space than for the

31:19

nails and I just like We started

31:21

talking about so many things

31:23

and after a while I was like,

31:26

whoa, I think I want to I want

31:28

to try like you using like

31:30

dayland pronouns for me as

31:32

well and I feel like really

31:34

comfortable here and I could like

31:36

really just like going to let

31:38

go of like everything that I

31:40

felt was kind of holding me

31:43

back before and I think it

31:45

was like so much through like

31:47

a space like that and also

31:49

like in my relationship at the

31:51

time I felt like I could

31:54

like voice certain things and

31:56

I was like really yeah

31:58

just coming to

32:00

terms with like who I

32:02

was and feeling more comfortable

32:05

with myself and less like

32:07

like I had like so many

32:09

people because I also

32:11

I was like in

32:13

Switzerland I was like kind of

32:15

known very early on yeah yeah

32:17

I was like yeah like 15

32:19

16 I was like I

32:22

got like known in a time where

32:24

I didn't even know who I

32:26

was and I think really needed me

32:28

like take like stepping out

32:30

of that space to really

32:32

give me the time and

32:34

space to figure out who I

32:36

was I feel like I had like

32:38

that part of my my what do

32:40

you say like and to

32:43

a click of English my development

32:45

that sounds wrong like adolescence yeah

32:47

kind of like got like delayed a

32:49

little bit yeah in a way I don't

32:51

know if that makes sense yeah I think

32:53

we call it like a delayed puberty almost

32:55

yes yeah get like held back or you

32:57

get to have like a second yeah

32:59

maybe it was like a second puberty yeah

33:01

that makes sense too and also leaving

33:03

where you're from that's it's

33:05

I think the thing about being

33:07

non -binary that's so interesting is the

33:10

language and how even I always

33:12

think about people who are Spanish

33:14

like Spanish speaking how everything is gendered

33:16

in Spanish like the door has

33:18

a gender you know German as well

33:20

is the same I was going

33:22

to ask because I don't really know

33:24

enough about that I know more

33:26

about Spanish but does that make it

33:28

easier or harder or like does it

33:30

make everything like I feel like

33:32

the fact that in Spanish the door

33:34

is a woman obviously not but

33:36

like then you could

33:38

almost care less about those

33:40

kind of pronouns not you know what

33:42

I mean like it's like the weight

33:44

is lower because everything is not yeah

33:47

it's a good question I

33:49

feel like it's I would say

33:52

it's like different for every person

33:54

for me it's more about I

33:56

mean the language just says so

33:58

much about how people

34:00

perceive you in a way

34:02

and it's more about not

34:04

really like a specific

34:07

kind of language that

34:09

I want people to use

34:11

for me it's more about wanting

34:13

them to see me as I

34:16

am you know yeah I feel

34:18

like the language is just

34:20

like an indicator of that

34:22

in a way and if

34:24

like let's say in German

34:26

like there is like We

34:29

say like, how do

34:31

I explain this? Okay,

34:34

wait, so we have

34:36

like, okay, the person

34:39

is female. Yeah. And

34:42

the human is

34:44

male. Okay. So, like,

34:47

you could, like, say,

34:49

if you say her, sometimes

34:52

it can refer to

34:54

the person. Okay. If

34:56

you say him, it

34:59

can refer to the man.

35:01

Okay. The human. Sorry. Sorry.

35:03

I was confused. So

35:06

there's like, I mean,

35:08

sometimes when people say

35:10

like her to me, they

35:12

mean like the person. You

35:14

know what I mean? And like

35:17

it's, it, like language in

35:19

that sense, I feel like

35:21

it's kind of. Like more

35:24

complex because of that in German But

35:26

it's like really for me like if

35:28

I know how someone is like perceiving

35:30

me and I Really feel that language

35:33

kind of cons second to that, but

35:35

it is like Like it is such

35:37

a strong indicator of that because

35:39

you hear it all the time. You know what?

35:41

I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, no,

35:44

I do it's just great. I think

35:46

the language of it is just crazy

35:48

in general because obviously I know in

35:50

English even I think a lot of

35:52

people are having a hard having a

35:55

hard time. But with they them that it's

35:57

plural, although it's not like when you get

35:59

a new. it says they're on

36:01

their way. And I don't

36:04

think there's two drivers. And

36:06

suddenly, like, it's a

36:08

problem. Yeah, and people are

36:10

like, oh, it's plural. But yeah,

36:13

I'm just like, I wonder

36:15

what that is like in

36:17

every country. It's got

36:19

to be different. And

36:21

then it's like really

36:23

beautiful that in some

36:25

languages, there is no. There is

36:27

no. You know what I mean? It's

36:29

just going to be so interesting

36:31

as time goes on to see how

36:33

people... How it develops. Yeah, and

36:36

navigate. And if they are going to

36:38

create, like we may have to create

36:40

new pronouns in these places that don't

36:42

have them to understand it? Yeah,

36:44

and I mean it in French, for

36:46

instance, there's like, Elle, Elle is like,

36:49

like the feminine pronoun and Elle

36:51

is like the masculine and then

36:53

now they have like yell. Okay. And

36:55

it's like, it makes... Like a mixture

36:57

of tunes. Yeah, that's kind of

36:59

like, and like a fix for that,

37:02

you know, and like people, it's really

37:04

in Switzerland, in the French part, like

37:06

it's really, it's kind of established,

37:09

you know, you know, it's also says a

37:11

lot about like kind of a culture,

37:13

how easy. How quickly they are to

37:15

change. Yeah, like and how fluid things

37:18

are. French makes sense. I feel like

37:20

in France too, like everything so like

37:22

about. Love and there's so much

37:25

more like about art and

37:27

like that's an interesting

37:29

observation. Yeah, except

37:31

for I don't like Paris

37:33

You don't like Paris? No,

37:36

but I probably didn't do

37:38

it right. I love Paris It

37:40

felt so cold to me like

37:42

when were you? Probably like

37:44

five years ago four years

37:46

ago in winter summer winter

37:48

With my mom and my sister

37:50

also What do you think is the

37:53

biggest difference in the queer scene between

37:55

like a Berlin and Switzerland, Los Angeles,

37:57

New York? Does it feel very different?

38:00

to you, moving in those spaces? I mean,

38:02

I can say, I feel

38:04

like Berlin is the queer city

38:06

I've ever lived in, definitely. But

38:09

now I move to London and

38:11

I'm kind of comparing those two

38:13

is very interesting because London is

38:15

very queer as well, but

38:17

like in a different way.

38:19

If I like think

38:21

about it, it's like, I

38:24

think in Berlin,

38:26

there's like just kind of

38:28

like more dedicated spaces, kind of

38:30

like there's like clubs or

38:32

like bars, restaurants where you

38:34

know, like you can go at any time

38:37

and it's like, yeah, and also things

38:39

are open like all the time too, right?

38:41

In Berlin. Yeah. Yeah. But in

38:43

London kind of as well.

38:45

Yeah. I in Switzerland, it's like

38:47

very, I think everything is

38:49

so small. So everything becomes like

38:52

less in a way, like if

38:54

that makes sense. Like Berlin is

38:56

just like a city that's like

38:58

10 times bigger than Zurich. So

39:00

obviously there's more like queerness as

39:02

well. And like, yeah. But also

39:04

I think like Berlin, you

39:07

know, if I think

39:09

about the city, it's really

39:11

beautiful because

39:14

it's also very tragic because

39:16

Berlin used to be like

39:18

a super queer city before the

39:20

Second World War and before

39:22

like the Nazis. And then all

39:24

of this happened. And you

39:26

know, like, I mean, like

39:28

there was there was so

39:31

many queer bars and clubs and

39:33

it was so alive and they

39:35

just like wiped it like

39:37

overnight basically. But now

39:39

to know that

39:41

like so many years

39:43

later, like nothing,

39:46

nothing ever can

39:48

destroy that because it finds a way

39:50

back. And now it's even queer than

39:53

before is like the biggest like middle

39:55

finger to all the Nazis. You know

39:57

what I mean? Like it's like. You

40:00

can't, you can't destroy

40:02

queerness. No, anywhere, right? It's like a

40:04

flower growing through the concrete. Yeah. It's like,

40:06

we're going to come out no matter

40:08

what you do to us, which is sick.

40:12

What do you think like, what's the dating

40:14

scene like in London? Do you like

40:16

it? I've

40:19

not had enough time to

40:21

really explore. I mean, I

40:23

was like, I was there

40:25

two months now. So,

40:27

and I've like, I've

40:30

not had enough time to

40:32

really go on dates. There, but I

40:34

will certainly I can tell you

40:36

more about it. I'm, I guess I'm

40:38

not really like a big dater

40:40

anyway. No, no, I feel like, I

40:42

mean, I, I wasn't a really

40:44

long relationship. Like I was in a

40:46

five year relationship

40:49

until January. Oh my gosh.

40:51

And you're young too. So yeah, yeah, that's

40:53

like all of it. Yeah, basically all

40:55

of it. Oh my God, what did I

40:57

do? No,

40:59

but I would say London

41:01

is just more, I

41:04

feel like people in Berlin have more time. And

41:07

London is like more career

41:09

city. So I would imagine

41:11

like dating is like a bit

41:13

more sparse or kind of

41:15

more like kind of let's get

41:17

to the chase of it.

41:19

Berlin is like such an interesting

41:21

city because I feel like

41:23

people have so much time for

41:25

like friendships and like creativity. And

41:28

like, there's not a lot

41:30

of pressure in the same way that

41:32

like New York, LA, London, I suppose,

41:34

have like with like, you have to

41:36

like make money here or you literally

41:38

like land on the street. Totally. And

41:40

I feel like Berlin is a bit

41:42

more chill about it starting to become

41:44

like London more and more. Um, but

41:47

yeah, so I think that could be be

41:50

interesting. Also, you'll be going into

41:52

like the dating world for the first

41:54

time non -binary as opposed to before,

41:56

right? So yeah, that's a whole

41:58

new that's that's new. But I

42:00

think it's, I think it's,

42:02

yeah, I wonder like, what

42:05

would change. I think it's

42:07

like just always, I like,

42:09

I like meet people through

42:12

what I do a lot. So I

42:14

would say like, people, when

42:16

we're going on like on

42:18

a date, they would already

42:21

like. No, you would already know. Yeah,

42:23

100% me. You know what I mean?

42:25

Yeah, totally and know who I am

42:27

and I feel like that wouldn't like

42:30

change that much. Yeah, but how's dating

42:32

in LA? That's a great question.

42:35

I've not I'm like kind of like

42:37

a serial monogamous. So I've

42:39

had a lot of relationships.

42:42

So I've done like a lot

42:44

of I know from my world like

42:46

the lesbian world. It's Everyone's dated

42:48

everyone. That's kind of our biggest

42:50

problem. I think we have here.

42:52

That's not a problem. The world

42:55

is just very small. Even though

42:57

I mean there's obviously LA's

42:59

got to be one of the biggest populations

43:02

of like queer women in America. Really? I

43:04

would assume. More so than New York. I

43:06

would say LA and New York are comparable

43:09

but somehow we all know someone like

43:11

you know what I mean? So it's very

43:13

small. But you're also like... like

43:15

in that world but also then

43:17

probably like in the kind of like

43:19

industry creative like it's quicker and

43:22

quicker yeah it's already small yeah then

43:24

you like add any other layer to

43:26

it and you're like and now it's

43:28

small it's like a hundred people

43:30

like yeah very little it's just

43:33

hard to find anyone who hasn't

43:35

slept with someone you probably know

43:37

or dated or like you know

43:39

the community is so small but hot

43:41

A lot of hot lesbians in

43:44

LA I would say yeah

43:46

good-looking yeah nice and If that's

43:48

what you're into I would say

43:50

New York feels a lot more

43:53

queer to me and LA feels

43:55

a lot more gay Yeah, I

43:57

can I can see that there's

43:59

a lot more like also I would

44:01

say of a binary in Los Angeles.

44:03

Like I think in LA in

44:05

general, there's more of a

44:08

superficial situation going on

44:10

and like looks

44:12

matter a lot. Like keeping up with the

44:14

Joneses, do you know that saying? Yeah,

44:16

I heard of it, I heard of it.

44:18

Yeah, it's kind of like even if you

44:20

were like a more poor family

44:23

in the middle of America or in

44:25

a suburb, you would buy a

44:27

nicer car than you can afford to make

44:29

it look like you're keeping up with the Joneses

44:31

and the Joneses are like the rich family.

44:33

Yeah, I know that from a movie. Yeah, yeah,

44:35

yeah. So I think there's a movie called.

44:37

Do you know that movie, yeah? Keeping up with

44:39

the Joneses. It's like where the family is

44:42

like. Like going bankrupt and. No, it's like I

44:44

think they're like all like paid like

44:47

advertisers almost like their whole house is

44:49

fake and like their car is like

44:51

bought and they're just put in this

44:53

like suburbian village to pretend that they

44:55

have all these things to influence all

44:58

these people in Dubai. So that makes

45:00

sense. Same, same vibe. I think

45:02

LA has like a bit of that

45:04

of just like optics are more important.

45:06

Whereas like I think in New York,

45:08

it's like working is also way more

45:10

underground New York. I feel like there's

45:12

more of like a probably like queer

45:14

underground totally like I don't. Is there like

45:16

underground? Yeah, apparently there are like a

45:18

lot of club. Like

45:20

that's like a whole new debate about

45:22

Los Angeles in general. It's like our

45:24

nightclub scene. Like is it dead? Like it's

45:26

gone kind of. It feels kind of

45:28

deadish. Like I don't know about the fact,

45:30

but is that true? That like nightclubs

45:32

have to close at like 2 a .m.

45:34

Yeah, like what? Like you can't like

45:36

have a club scene. No, if that's

45:38

like a rule. Yeah, so we

45:41

what I've what I'm learning is

45:43

we have more of like a

45:45

rave scene. So a lot of

45:47

illegal like warehouse parties that go

45:49

till 6 a .m. Yeah, but they're

45:51

like unregulated and yeah. So kind of

45:53

not safe. Yeah, but also very queer.

45:55

I've heard. I have like

45:57

I have a few non -binary friends who that they

45:59

prefer to. go out and that, which makes

46:01

sense too because I, well I don't

46:04

know, because I go to like mostly like

46:06

more dive bars, like just chill. Kind of

46:08

bar vibe. Yeah, I love going out, going

46:10

out. Yeah, yeah. I really, I feel

46:12

like Berlin, it's Berlin's fault.

46:15

Yeah, well your music also I

46:17

feel has influence of like club going

46:19

out. True, would you say? Yeah, yeah,

46:21

definitely. I feel like it's becoming

46:23

more more more influenced by

46:26

it because it's just... I feel

46:28

like clubs are such an interesting

46:30

place in our society. It's

46:33

like a parallel universe almost

46:35

and everyone kind of gets

46:37

to be like this version of

46:40

themselves which is very interesting

46:42

like you get to exaggerate everything

46:44

about you or you get to

46:46

like change who you are for

46:48

a night and like it's really

46:51

I feel like it's a really important thing

46:53

that we have those spaces. I feel

46:55

like they're coming back. Yeah, you know

46:57

what I mean? Like I feel like

46:59

it's like, like culture is a pendulum and we'll

47:01

go really far one way and then you come

47:03

back the other way and I do feel like,

47:05

like what, like the 80s, like the club kids

47:07

and stuff in New York and they were throwing

47:09

pop-up parties on the subway and stuff. Oh my

47:11

God. And now I feel, I feel like that's lacking

47:14

again and then like music also like. Charlie

47:16

X X and like the influence is that

47:18

totally where people are like where can I

47:20

listen to this kind of music because it's

47:22

obviously not a dive bar you know you

47:25

need to be I mean you could be

47:27

but you want to be in a club

47:29

you want to dance and I'm kind of

47:31

surprised it didn't have like a stronger like

47:33

switchback kind of post COVID era because people

47:36

were so close in you would think it

47:38

would have gone like straight I think it's

47:40

just delayed a bit yeah I think you're

47:42

right I kind of feel like the cultural

47:44

bubbling up that very

47:46

much. People want to dance.

47:48

Yes. That's what it feels like.

47:51

Yeah. And I hope I hope like

47:53

that the next like wave of

47:55

like parties like that just

47:57

becomes like super safe and away.

48:00

as well because I think

48:02

that's kind of what

48:04

I like what you can criticize

48:06

about like the party scene like

48:08

even if it's great like it's

48:10

so hard to really make

48:12

sure people are safe you

48:14

know and I think

48:17

there needs to be like party

48:19

like events and like kind of

48:21

like things that are known

48:23

for being like this super safe

48:25

space and I think that's the next wave

48:27

we're gonna like I agree experience I hope

48:29

so me too I hope so too because yeah

48:31

some of those the raves I've been to

48:33

some of the raves in LA and they

48:35

are like also a little scary because you're

48:37

just like who's in charge

48:39

here exactly you know so

48:41

yeah that's what Berlin is like really good

48:43

about like they oftentimes I have like

48:45

a very good like safety and awareness teams

48:47

and they come like check in on

48:49

you like when if you're sitting down like

48:51

for like 10 seconds someone's like are you okay

48:53

what's the big club in Berlin

48:55

the one that ever yeah yeah

48:57

tries to get into did you

48:59

go there a lot no I never

49:02

went to burqan actually yeah

49:04

I like not as cool as people like

49:06

is it I will go to burqan

49:08

eventually but I feel like

49:10

there's like different like they're

49:12

smaller kind of clubs that

49:14

are equally as cool but

49:16

I I can't say because I've never

49:18

been to it so I might love it

49:20

but it's also kind of intense burqan

49:22

is really intense like what you hear

49:24

of it but in a cool in

49:26

a good way totally it's always like

49:28

you just have to like the thing

49:30

about burqan is you invest like

49:33

four hours and you don't

49:35

know if you're gonna get in

49:37

or not yeah you know like

49:39

so it's my mom actually goes

49:41

to burqan sometimes she goes like

49:43

on Sundays what like in the

49:45

afternoon or in the morning because

49:47

it goes like from Friday to

49:49

Monday morning got it and she

49:51

just goes to dance for like

49:53

a couple of hours and she

49:55

always gets in like my mom

49:58

is like the coolest what Oh,

50:00

wait. That's so sick. Yeah. So

50:02

was your mom, like, what was

50:04

her reaction to you coming out?

50:06

Just like, okay, cool. Yeah, like

50:08

she was like literally the first

50:10

person, one of the first people

50:12

I told. Yeah. Yeah, like she's,

50:14

she's pretty much the coolest mom

50:16

we could ever have, I would

50:18

say. That's so sweet. That's actually

50:20

really cool. I was wondering, oh,

50:22

this is I was gonna say

50:24

before. Is this about Switzerland. There's

50:26

some saying about like about not

50:28

wanting to be like the tallest

50:30

Flower like people will cut you

50:32

down in Switzerland like every they

50:34

want everyone to feel very like

50:36

even so they won't if someone's

50:38

feeling like there's not like bragging

50:40

like if you start to like

50:42

be boisterous everyone around you like

50:44

that okay it's literally the opposite

50:46

of the state in that it's

50:48

really interesting it's I feel like

50:51

it has a positive side but

50:53

it also kind of has a

50:55

negative side. I think the positive

50:57

side is like there's just through

50:59

that like I think a lot

51:01

of stability in Switzerland and a

51:03

kind of like a I don't

51:05

know like yeah I would say

51:07

stability is the word and kind

51:09

of like like like almost like

51:11

equality like in a way yeah

51:13

it's like even though it's not

51:15

like we have billionaires as well

51:17

you know like not everyone's equal

51:19

but like people would not like

51:21

Like build they would like there's

51:23

houses in Switzerland that look tiny

51:25

When you like walk past them,

51:27

but they have like like stores

51:29

that go down and like there's

51:31

super like mansiony when you get

51:33

in them like that's just not

51:35

that's made to not show off

51:37

Yeah, but here in LA you

51:39

would like build a huge mansion

51:41

and it would be like this

51:43

flat. Yeah, you'd open the door

51:45

and you'd be able to just

51:47

like make a left and a

51:49

right and a done. Yeah, yeah,

51:51

yeah, it's complete opposite. So I

51:53

mean that's kind of like a

51:55

thing about, yeah, Switzerland. But yeah,

51:57

at the same time, I feel

51:59

like people become less. Daring what

52:01

I love about the US is

52:04

like people just do

52:06

things. Yeah, and people

52:08

are like I'm an actress

52:11

and You're not even an actress

52:13

yet, but you are in a way because

52:15

you're deciding you're an act. If people, like

52:17

a thing is like no one here when

52:20

you ask people about their jobs, no one's

52:22

gonna tell you about their day job, but

52:24

more about what they're interested in and where

52:26

they're headed to. Like in Switzerland, no one

52:28

would ever do that. If they've not made

52:30

it yet, they will always tell you their

52:33

current job. It's so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I

52:35

mean, yeah, that's a thing. It probably also.

52:37

makes it harder, like with the

52:39

daring thing, like it probably makes

52:42

it harder to like think that you

52:44

should or could achieve more. Like, you

52:46

know what I mean? Like that your

52:48

dreams might feel more silly almost

52:50

in Switzerland versus in America.

52:53

We're kind of like, okay, sure,

52:55

do you? You know what I mean?

52:57

Even if it seems like something

52:59

that's impossible to do. Yeah. Like

53:01

maybe people would have less courage

53:04

to try something and fail

53:06

in Switzerland. Yeah. Does that make sense?

53:08

Yeah, I feel like failing is

53:10

bad in Switzerland, which here it's

53:12

totally okay. It's a fail, which

53:15

is kind of beautiful. I really

53:17

like that about the US. But

53:19

I feel like it's changing in

53:21

Switzerland as well, like with the

53:23

newer generation. And I think music

53:26

is becoming more and more

53:28

inspiring. And I think like

53:30

COVID actually for everything

53:32

that it was bad for. It was

53:35

kind of... very good for Swiss

53:37

culture and internet culture because Like

53:39

suddenly like the first Swiss artists

53:41

got like signed in that time

53:43

like outside of Switzerland because labels

53:46

were like okay It doesn't really

53:48

matter where you're from right now.

53:50

Everything is becoming like so digital

53:52

and I think that's really also

53:54

changing kind of like culture in

53:57

Switzerland. It's slow, but I really feel

53:59

it and I hope, like,

54:01

Switzerland will become more

54:03

daring in the future. Well, and

54:05

they have you now, too. Yeah. Perfect.

54:09

Okay. Is there anything you want to talk about

54:11

that you didn't get to talk about? No.

54:13

I really enjoyed this. Thank you. I really enjoyed it,

54:15

too. Do you have, like, what's

54:18

next for your artist project? I know

54:20

your new music video is amazing, by

54:22

the way. Oh, thank you. You're all

54:24

stars. Wow. You've really done your research

54:26

very so well. Good. I love it.

54:28

It's so, like, also, like, so

54:30

many different setups that you guys did.

54:32

I was like, whoa. Oh, thank you. And

54:34

you had, did you have other contestants

54:36

from the show? Yes. I thought so. It's

54:39

so beautiful. I mean, EuroStar

54:41

is kind of the first song of

54:43

my album that I'm writing at the

54:45

moment. I am, as I said,

54:47

I moved to London, so I'm really kind

54:49

of, this album is

54:51

almost like an examination

54:53

of me and

54:55

what London does to me. Like what

54:58

I'm, like, experiencing in a new city

55:00

and how I feel in the city.

55:02

So it's, it's a lot about London.

55:04

It's a lot about myself. It's, it's kind

55:06

of very, I think

55:08

I would say it's more

55:10

urgent and more kind

55:13

of in the now than what I've

55:15

done before. Like, I feel like the

55:17

code, the song I went to Eurovision with

55:19

is very, like, retrospective, kind of telling

55:21

my story and how I, everything that led

55:23

up to one moment and now it's

55:25

kind of like everything I'm going through right

55:27

now. Put into an album.

55:29

Totally. That's what I'm writing right now. Your

55:31

life must be moving a lot faster.

55:33

Yes. I would assume. Yeah. Yeah. There's a

55:35

lot happening. There's a lot of, a lot

55:37

of things to write about. Definitely. Awesome.

55:39

Okay. I wait to hear it. Do you

55:41

have like a date when it's coming or your

55:43

Amy? Sometime next year, hopefully

55:46

earlier than later. Perfect.

55:48

Yeah. Okay. Well, y 'all, you need

55:50

to follow Nemo. Do you say your name

55:52

Nemo? Like you pronounce it when I

55:54

listen to you. It's like Nemo. Nemo

55:56

in, in, in Swiss term I say Nemo,

55:58

but in English I say Nemo. Nemo, okay. Okay,

56:01

follow Nemo on all of their

56:03

socials, all be below, and check

56:05

out their new music video, also

56:07

link it below, and also, yeah,

56:09

listen to their music, they're amazing.

56:11

Thank you so much for coming. Thank

56:13

you, thank you so much for me as well.

56:15

Yeah, thank you for coming into my

56:17

studio. Okay, bye. Bye.