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2:33

know I think she probably thought that

2:35

that in what she knew of knowledge

2:37

of that industry was that I'd end

2:40

up working you know long hours yeah

2:42

in a pub that probably didn't offer

2:44

me much back yeah and you know

2:47

we joke about it now but I

2:49

think of my parents have been unbelievably

2:51

supportive of my career and everything that

2:53

I've done and when I later on

2:56

when I traveled with my career was

2:58

so supportive but you know I think

3:00

it's them little moments where Obviously they

3:03

gave me 100% support and I just

3:05

completely went headfirst into it from that

3:07

moment onwards and I very very quickly

3:09

after that left and moved to London.

3:12

Must have been so tough. Yeah, I

3:14

I made many many sacrifices over the

3:16

years. I worked unbelievably long hours back

3:19

then, you know, and the industry's changed

3:21

for the better now in that respect,

3:23

but you know, I became completely addicted

3:25

to it. everything. I was addicted to

3:28

being told I wasn't good enough because

3:30

that happened a lot in elite kitchens.

3:32

I was addicted to wanting to be

3:35

better as a chef, wanting to understand

3:37

more, addicted to like the rush of

3:39

service, addicted to the camaraderie at times,

3:41

the hierarchy, the discipline, everything, just I

3:44

was completely consumed by it. Literally, I

3:46

honestly, I didn't even have enough money

3:48

to go and get a beer if

3:51

I wanted one. And I genuinely know

3:53

my, I've got three or four clothes.

3:55

friends I grew up

3:57

with that I

4:00

still I to him. to

4:02

and we talk about it now every now and

4:04

then we'll reminisce. know, we've been fortunate

4:06

enough to spend more time together recently

4:08

and do some nice things together. nice things

4:10

together and you about them times and I literally

4:12

just dropped off the face of the earth.

4:14

I remember when I'd moved to New York, I

4:16

remember when Facebook came out Facebook came out and you know it

4:19

the only way that I could then I could

4:21

then communicate with my friends properly. properly.

4:23

And yeah, I just I just off off

4:25

and was like, that if knew that

4:27

if I wanted to achieve in this

4:29

game. didn't even know, what the even know

4:31

what the outcome was going to be

4:34

then, but I knew from the way

4:36

my father me me up and sport at a

4:38

at a fairly high level as a

4:40

youngster was was that have to give everything

4:42

if you're going to achieve, you can't

4:44

cut any corners. You can't cheat the

4:46

game. the game. I was completely blinkered. Like, blinkered.

4:48

Like, you know, there's that saying, you know, a racehorse

4:50

when it wears it wears blinders. So it it

4:52

can't be distracted by anything around it.

4:54

It was very much that I just

4:56

had blinders on had a very early age

4:58

and I age. And this clear vision vision of

5:00

that to go in. to go and one day day

5:02

my my own restaurant. I decided that the

5:04

moment I moved to London, to London, and I

5:07

when I moved to I moved to London,

5:09

the first chef I worked for was

5:11

a chef called Tom Tom Akins in Elliston

5:13

Chelsea. Chelsea. He He was a two mission

5:15

star chef. The kitchen was The kitchen was

5:17

notoriously tough notoriously I was very green

5:19

around the the ears. And I remember

5:21

my first week there. there, and

5:23

couldn't believe believe, number

5:26

how physically tasking it was on my

5:28

body. was on my I

5:30

also couldn't believe couldn't believe

5:32

his his imagination with food.

5:35

like like changed my life. I I

5:37

was like. you can can literally

5:39

do anything. anything. And I I was

5:41

so turned on by it. it. Yeah. And then it

5:43

didn't become a choice. Yes, I knew I

5:45

was making sacrifices. Yes, I knew I wasn't

5:47

seeing my friends. Yes, I know I wasn't

5:49

going out on weekends. out of what you're getting

5:51

fulfilled. you're getting fulfilled. Yeah, I such a

5:53

different way such a different way. Yeah. And

5:55

I I wouldn't change them

5:58

years because they ultimately, what shaped me.

6:00

and allowed me to later in my

6:02

career when I went through tough times,

6:04

you know, that's what really shapes me.

6:06

But how are you getting these jobs?

6:09

You're 16, you moved to London, you've

6:11

the only experience that you've got is

6:13

working in a pub. Yeah, I've always

6:16

said and I say it to people

6:18

now that work effort. Yeah. And your

6:20

attitude. And if you have them two

6:22

things, anyone in the world will employ

6:25

you or give you a chance. I

6:27

believe that. You know, because everything else

6:29

is learned. And the chef at the

6:32

time in the pub, who we mentioned

6:34

earlier, he said, look, if you really

6:36

want to excel in this, you've got

6:38

to go to London. So are all

6:41

the best restaurants are. Remember there wasn't

6:43

social media at this time. So I

6:45

was like, okay. And you just wrote

6:48

down two names, two, two restaurants, two

6:50

restaurants in London right now. I think

6:52

I called them both up one day

6:54

and said I'm looking for a job

6:57

and they both just said, yeah, okay,

6:59

come and do a trial, we'll offer

7:01

your job if you're good enough. Oh

7:04

my God. And I went down, I

7:06

remember my mum drove me down, booked

7:08

a hotel for one night for me,

7:10

she stayed with me for the two

7:13

nights. I worked in both restaurants for

7:15

one day. They both offered me a

7:17

job. And what was your skill set

7:20

at this point? Pretty minimal. Yeah. Yeah.

7:22

You know, I knew the basics. I

7:24

wouldn't say to the level where it

7:26

would blow anyone away, but I think

7:29

what I'd learned was that I knew

7:31

how a kitchen, I knew what kitchen

7:33

behavior was then by this point, I

7:36

knew how to move, I knew that

7:38

you had to have high energy, you

7:40

had to listen, you had to, your

7:42

peripherals had to be very good all

7:45

the time, you know, and I didn't

7:47

realize at the time, I don't think

7:49

One, how, tough time. the first kitchen

7:52

I went to was going to be.

7:54

And I think that when I went

7:56

there, honestly, the first six months were

7:58

actually a little bit about survival for

8:01

myself. Yeah. You know, I was very

8:03

young. It was tough. I was living

8:05

on my own. You know, I had

8:08

very little money. I had of course

8:10

support from my parents, but I also

8:12

wanted to support myself. So it wasn't,

8:14

you know, I knew what I'd entered

8:17

into by this point. But them two

8:19

years in the first restaurant in London

8:21

really shaped my career in terms of

8:24

I knew when I left there I

8:26

could go and work anywhere in the

8:28

world for sure. And like I said,

8:30

yes there were sacrifices being made but

8:33

I decided by that point what I

8:35

wanted the angle to be and nothing

8:37

was going to stop me so. So

8:40

after Bumble and Bumble what did you

8:42

do next? I loved what I was

8:44

doing. I loved my job. It was

8:46

amazing. How great was that? I was

8:49

running badue. I'm on the board at

8:51

Bumble. Life is great. The products are

8:53

cool. It's exciting. I'm working with amazing

8:55

people, but I had a thin. So

8:58

I had a six-month-old when we started

9:00

building Bumble. And so... New baby and

9:02

dating don't go hand in hand. I

9:05

don't think I've been on a date

9:07

with my husband since I've had any

9:09

of my kids. Literally imagine the fact

9:11

that you're like in the day you're

9:14

thinking about all these, even just like

9:16

what we were building was so cool.

9:18

Yeah. And then at night I was

9:21

going home and like searching on Google

9:23

and reading things on weird forums from

9:25

like, you know... 2012, like it was

9:27

such a weird time. Yeah, for a

9:30

napi ration. Yeah, why won't he sleep?

9:32

Is it normal? Like all of these

9:34

things. So I was leading like this

9:37

really double life. And I think it's

9:39

actually why I formed such a bond

9:41

with Whitney because to me I felt

9:43

quite protective of her because she was

9:46

going through something and I just wasn't

9:48

with Finn in the day. I was

9:50

working in the day and then obsolete.

9:53

obsessing over him

9:55

at night, That that

9:57

was my life. I felt

9:59

I felt we we

10:02

needed a product. that

10:04

was a bit was a bit more. relevant

10:07

relevant I that I wanted to use. I live I

10:09

live with the idea for years and years

10:11

years and then in In 2016 I was like, I'm

10:13

do it. do it. I had the taste for

10:15

it. I'd seen what had happened. I I

10:17

felt like I'd like building someone someone

10:19

else's company for so long. I I wanted to go

10:21

and do it myself. it myself. So I took the

10:23

took the jump, I took the risk and

10:25

I stayed on the board of of for doing

10:27

and I left. bumble and I left. and I

10:29

started, had a few a few ideas,

10:31

That must have been like so scary to do

10:33

scary to do because obviously you've got

10:36

a new baby. you you have the security

10:38

of a of a job, you you know a fantastic

10:40

job. Yeah, you know, you've got bills

10:42

to pay and to go out on your

10:44

own. that's know time and You know, that's not

10:46

the best time. And if you look at it,

10:48

so scary, like I it was so scary. and remember Finn

10:50

was two and a half when I was

10:52

like, I'm going to do this. He was just

10:54

about to start nursery. mom had looked after him

10:56

looked after him before that. that. And

10:58

then he was going to start nursery to start

11:00

nursery The hours of nursery meant that I

11:02

needed that I child care. Mum didn't want to do

11:05

it anymore, she was tired. to do it And

11:07

so I knew I had to pay for nursery

11:09

and I had to pay for nursery and

11:11

childcare. I also knew that if I

11:13

didn't do it, then there would be

11:15

no time. would be no time. Also like sometimes like were,

11:17

I just had it had was the

11:19

time. And by the way, there were

11:21

other ideas that I lived with other ideas that

11:23

I lived with And thought about, but this was the

11:25

one that I felt most connected to and I

11:27

felt like needed to and millions of apps out there. to

11:29

have. There's think the of apps out

11:32

there. thing about your app about cool. is it's feel

11:34

like people think as soon as you have

11:36

a baby, soon lost your identity, you're not

11:38

you. lost You you can't wear makeup. you don't

11:40

go out, you don't want to look hot.

11:42

can't have a glass of wine with your

11:44

friends. want And you have to age overnight

11:46

and become this kind of a completely different

11:48

person. and And I think, kind of I know

11:50

when I had my first baby, person. I'd moved

11:53

from from Liverpool to London all my family

11:55

Liverpool. I I was on my own Pete

11:57

was in work every day day and the the

11:59

kind of only option then was to kind of

12:01

go to an NCT group or go

12:03

to like a baby music class and

12:05

you kind of almost forced to be

12:07

with people and new moms who you

12:10

wouldn't hang about within in everyday life

12:12

and then that can make you feel

12:14

even more lonely. 100% I felt like

12:16

so when I had Finn none of

12:18

my girlfriends were having babies right and

12:20

I had him I just turned 30

12:22

and I had got to this place

12:24

in my career that I loved, but

12:26

I didn't have a point of reference,

12:29

right? Like it's not, I didn't have

12:31

brothers and sisters, it's not like I

12:33

grew up around other small kids, it

12:35

was just me, so it's not like

12:37

you have, so the only thing you

12:39

have is your own mum. But in

12:41

your head, you're like, okay, but that's...

12:43

How do I know whether I'm what

12:46

I'm doing is right? And you know,

12:48

it was really hard. Even for me,

12:50

as one of four, I still felt

12:52

the same way. I still, you know,

12:54

doubt myself, am I doing the right

12:56

thing? Are you supposed to put them

12:58

to a nap at this time? And

13:00

also, don't you think it's so weird?

13:02

I even think about it now. They

13:05

send you home with this person, tiny

13:07

person. I didn't know what I was

13:09

doing. I'd never been around babies. the

13:11

difference between the cries or why he

13:13

was always crying. I had no idea.

13:15

I was terrified of him. And I

13:17

actually had real, real anxiety about him

13:19

not doing the things that I thought

13:22

he should be doing. Sleeping was a

13:24

really big one. So funny, now I've

13:26

got my daughter and I know what

13:28

an angel he was. But anyway, it's

13:30

really like... That's girls for you. Oh

13:32

my gosh. And how. So I really

13:34

felt like it was so hard and

13:36

I... Going back to the identity point,

13:38

I felt like everything out there was

13:41

talking to me as a mother and

13:43

I didn't even recognize you didn't even

13:45

feel like a mother yet. I didn't

13:47

know what that was. I didn't get

13:49

it and so I wanted to make

13:51

a product that felt cool and felt

13:53

fresh and felt relevant and felt like

13:55

I wanted to use it. And it

13:58

spoke to me and also all the

14:00

women who were coming behind me. I

14:02

felt like, what are they going to

14:04

use? There's no way they're going on

14:06

that going on that forum. chance. So

14:08

that was the kind of start of

14:10

it and it had to feel young

14:12

and it had to feel fresh and

14:14

it had to feel funny and irreverent

14:17

and you're right, yeah I didn't want

14:19

to be slummy mummy with my hair

14:21

scraped back and wearing my PJs all

14:23

day like that wasn't me either. So

14:25

I didn't want to play into that

14:27

narrative and that narrative was really big

14:29

at the time that I had fit

14:31

and I think that that was motherhood.

14:34

And actually I was just trying to

14:36

find a way to be me and

14:38

do it. Hard for me to envision

14:40

how such a traumatic event can almost

14:42

have a positive effect on where you

14:44

are in your life. You know, you've

14:46

been pulled into this world of gratitude

14:48

and you talk about having your two

14:50

lives and how, you know, there's a

14:53

huge contrast to your time working with

14:55

Google X to now live in this

14:57

unstressable life. Yeah, I had a life

14:59

at the beginning that is the typical...

15:01

successful entrepreneur or corporate executive, money pouring

15:03

in blessings all the everywhere. I had

15:05

everything you could wish for, you know,

15:07

Big Villa, swimming pool, two wonderful kids,

15:10

beautiful wife, you know, luxury cars, everything

15:12

you can think of, and miserable. Totally

15:14

miserable, stressed out, angry all the time,

15:16

completely unhappy and unsatisfied with life. Right?

15:18

And when you're in that situation, it's

15:20

actually quite shocking. Why? Because you seem

15:22

to have the resources to pour on

15:24

the problem, but nothing changes. So you

15:26

follow the world's promise. You know, the

15:29

modern world promises you that if you

15:31

go on a luxury vacation, you're going

15:33

to be happier. The truth is you

15:35

go on a luxury vacation and then

15:37

you receive an email and you're upset.

15:39

the world tells you if you buy

15:41

a fancy car you'll be happier right

15:43

and so you buy a fancy car

15:46

and then you get in there and

15:48

you go like what stitching here is

15:50

not perfect and you're unhappy right it's

15:52

not a question of what you

15:54

get. In my know,

15:56

in my first book,

15:58

and it's all

16:00

for happy, I I

16:03

describe happiness an algorithm. I say

16:05

say follows follows an

16:07

equation. Your happiness happiness is

16:09

equal to or greater than the

16:11

difference between the events of your life,

16:13

your perception of the events of your

16:15

life, and your expectations of how life

16:17

should be. be. And if your if your

16:19

expectation is that life is going to be

16:21

perfect all the time and it's going to

16:23

be giving you a service be agreement where

16:25

everything is always going to go to your

16:27

expectation is your partner is only going to say

16:29

loving things all the time and your kids

16:32

are never going to try to smoke, the time

16:34

and your that's your expectation, you're always going to

16:36

be disappointed. and right, if that's truth is

16:38

life doesn't work that way. be disappointed.

16:40

The truth is life At that

16:42

time, I so at that this was

16:44

the first turning point in my

16:47

life, in my life. a Saturday morning. and I was

16:49

in you I was office grumpy as home office, at

16:51

an at grumpy as always, and looking at

16:53

an daughter of some sort. And then my

16:55

lovely daughter walks in mommy up and

16:57

down we excitement. to said, we're going out.

16:59

Are we going to go to this

17:01

place? Can we play with this? Can

17:03

we go have that ice cream? Can

17:05

we have popcorn, right? very She's very, very

17:07

happy. I And I look at her and

17:09

I can we please be serious for

17:12

a minute? for a minute what She

17:14

was she was five Like seriously

17:16

like what what was going on

17:18

in my and my brain and And

17:20

somehow I could see

17:22

my daughter's In front of front of my

17:24

eyes. could see her You know, see her. break

17:26

down know, Okay, and and and

17:29

running out of the room doesn't want to out

17:31

of the room doesn't want to

17:33

be happy anymore. ruined You know, the I

17:35

is ruined and I looked at myself the

17:37

I looked at myself in the mirror and

17:39

I said I hate this don't Don't want

17:41

that purse. person Right? Between then and

17:43

time Ali left our

17:45

world, our world, perhaps 15 years

17:47

later, or later later, I

17:49

14 years later. the interesting

17:52

which is the interesting thing, I

17:55

learned to find happiness, to find

17:57

joy, to find peacefulness, to find

17:59

calm. calm. Ryan

20:01

Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price

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22:03

you lost left school. you left

22:05

with a band were traveling with a have

22:07

read up. Did you want to

22:09

be a rock star? Did you want to be

22:11

a rock star? No, music. You

22:14

know, I designed to music and

22:16

I can sing to you know, I

22:18

thought I could play the piano,

22:20

although my daughter said to me

22:22

the other day, Mum, I you

22:24

know, three songs. or then my made them

22:27

up myself. the other day, mom, you know three

22:29

songs. I made them up dampen everything in

22:31

a second. a second. But yeah, I ran

22:33

away I hooked I hooked up with

22:35

this incredible band, Pacific Express, around

22:38

the Cape and and South Africa

22:40

with them. it was it a

22:42

way of was a way of just running

22:44

away, and I made some great friends. you you

22:46

running away from? Well, the the fact

22:48

that my dad had died and

22:50

I was was I was lost,

22:52

I was I was shock was shocked, I was in

22:54

shock basically and deal with it. deal with ran

22:56

away, and of course I

22:59

was found in five

23:01

minutes minutes wasn't that difficult. wasn't

23:03

that it was it was important

23:05

part of my life

23:07

as well my also understanding

23:09

about apartheid and everything else.

23:11

else and then And then what

23:13

was quite interesting for

23:15

me for me years later years

23:17

Saul Campbell, as you know.

23:19

And as you know and that you know,

23:21

hit the front cover of of

23:23

the Cape Times. And in a a way,

23:26

that was great for me because

23:28

it was like yes, you know, like.

23:30

was wrong what was wrong what they

23:32

were doing and the government and everything else.

23:34

But I remember everybody I being in... You

23:36

know, wow, this is amazing. you

23:38

know, wow, it was a moment

23:40

for me a I had me because I

23:43

had with these friends of mine of

23:45

mine looked at them at them as my

23:47

friends, but it was it allowed.

23:49

So it was a really kind

23:51

of dangerous time. time. which

23:54

you know, when you're that young is kind

23:56

of exciting of well, isn't it? well your mum

23:58

let you do that? mom let you do that? No. I did

24:00

and my my mum and I had

24:02

fallen out and I only saw my

24:04

mum. weeks weeks before

24:06

my dad's funeral. I then ran then ran

24:08

away one she was the one

24:10

that found me and she kept

24:12

trying to entice me back. So

24:14

I'll tell you quickly you funny story.

24:16

a funny story. So were in

24:19

a block of flats because

24:21

the the band touring in

24:23

Johannesburg. and and these rooms

24:25

were literally concrete. concrete. And I I

24:28

called my mother up and I said, oh, I

24:30

really want to come home for a hug. home I'll

24:32

send you a ticket immediately. she said, I'll send

24:34

you I went home for like a week. So

24:36

I but I filled my case

24:38

I all the with all cushions that

24:40

were in her room that

24:43

I was sleeping in, that took

24:45

them all. in, hid them all,

24:47

my clothes. All I wanted

24:49

to do was decorate. you so

24:51

much. was decorate. That's hilarious. That's

24:54

a cool story. Okay, so you're

24:56

the best known designer in the

24:58

UK since David Hicks. UK since know,

25:00

what an achievement. You How did you

25:02

even begin to build this global

25:04

brand? to know, from this running away

25:06

from home, know, from with the band,

25:08

away and home, just with a band, I

25:10

loved it so much and I'm a

25:12

it so much know, I work hard. you

25:14

know, I I worked from home

25:16

worked from home I was lucky to

25:19

get a job because a girlfriend

25:21

of mine was having an affair with

25:23

a Grand Prix racing driver Prix racing That

25:25

was their way of spending time

25:27

together. And I was thrown into doing

25:29

this incredible house in doing you know,

25:32

house in the Bolton's, you know,

25:34

amazing. And I did it, you

25:36

know? you I I found builders

25:38

I I found lacquer specialists

25:40

and carpets. didn't have, have like internet

25:43

then, nothing, you know, know so you were

25:45

in your car driving around around. And

25:47

from that job, because I did such a

25:49

great job of it, I got I got... of

25:51

these loads of these racing drivers was, it

25:54

was it just happened and

25:56

then actors and various other people

25:58

then I I moved into a... studio

26:00

and then at 23 I just shut

26:02

the business down had a baby for

26:04

a year and then opened it again

26:06

a year later you know it was

26:08

just all seemed much simpler but I

26:10

was self-taught. So you don't think it's

26:12

it's necessary you didn't you didn't study

26:14

nothing? Well I did a six-week course

26:16

but I only went to like two

26:18

weeks of it to the Inchball School

26:21

of Design and I've still got my

26:23

report it said if Kelly Hopen could

26:25

have attended more of her things. She

26:27

might have made it. Yeah. No, I

26:29

don't. I think if you know, if

26:31

you know, you know, like I didn't

26:33

want to be told what to do.

26:35

I worked in Harrod's on Saturdays at

26:37

the belt department and I got fired.

26:39

I was useless at being told what

26:41

to do. So I thought, you know

26:43

what? I'm going to start my own

26:45

business. You don't need money to start

26:47

a business. You just need a client

26:50

and they pay you a deposit and

26:52

you deliver. And my mother was an

26:54

amazing mentor. She told me when you

26:56

get paid, you put the VAT money

26:58

in one account, you put the client's

27:00

money in another count, and you're profited

27:02

in another count. And I used to

27:04

literally do that. like perfect you know

27:06

and it just grew and grew and

27:08

grew and then when Tash went to

27:10

boarding school with Siena and Savannah because

27:12

they talked her into it I just

27:14

had all this time in the world.

27:16

But you created the Fellas. Yeah that

27:19

therapy crouch by the way I think

27:21

is one of the best podcast so

27:23

that's and it's extremely successful. How did

27:25

the idea come about it start the

27:27

Fellas podcast? We decided we're going to

27:29

do this, but one of the key

27:31

stipulations that I remember, I really want

27:33

to do it with my close friend

27:35

Josh, or as he's known online, is

27:37

chip. And I'd been asking him for

27:39

several years, like two years, I'd wanted

27:41

to do this podcast with him, but

27:43

any time I saw him, I was

27:45

like, when are we doing it, when

27:48

are we doing it? Is he like,

27:50

nah, no, not really. too bothered. And

27:52

in one day, and this is exactly

27:54

what happened, he called me up in

27:56

the morning and he was the time

27:58

I got to wake up at like

28:00

12. And so he called me at

28:02

like 9930. And I was like, what

28:04

happened? Yeah, I was like, what? This

28:06

is so strange. He called me. He's

28:08

like, cool. Let's do the podcast. And

28:10

I was like, brilliant. I'll get the

28:12

chair. We'll get the mic. We'll just

28:14

start doing it. And he's like, and

28:17

he's like. And I was there like,

28:19

he sounds like my brother. Yeah, and

28:21

I was just a bit there like,

28:23

right, okay, well, how much is the

28:25

set gonna cost me? And he was

28:27

like, well, I don't know, but I

28:29

want to design something and then we'll

28:31

go and do it. And so you

28:33

start putting together all these designs and

28:35

I was thinking in my head, I'm

28:37

like, all right, we're going to spend

28:39

like four grand things, I'm not doing,

28:41

you know, this is a new venture

28:43

for us. build the set. And I

28:46

was like, there's three expenses that I

28:48

really don't want to do, but we

28:50

were in a very fortunate position where

28:52

we had that extra capital and it

28:54

wasn't, you know, it wasn't too much

28:56

of a risk. And so we decided,

28:58

okay, let's go and do it. He

29:00

comes back to me and he goes,

29:02

I found a guy that's going to

29:04

do it. I was like, okay, cool.

29:06

He said he wants us to go

29:08

to go to his workshop. He's like,

29:10

yeah, yeah, it's over in West London,

29:12

over in West London, like, like, like,

29:15

like, like, like, like, here's, here's, here's,

29:17

like, here's, here's, here's, like, here's, like,

29:19

here's, here's, here's, like, here's, here's, like,

29:21

here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, like, here's,

29:23

here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, like And

29:25

it was like something, something, film studios.

29:27

And I'm looking at it, I'm thinking,

29:29

oh, like a full set maker. Yeah,

29:31

that's weird. I've Google the address. This

29:33

is the film studio where they shot

29:35

a bunch of Star Wars. They did

29:37

a bunch of Disney, Disney work. And

29:39

I was like, mate, there's no point

29:41

I was going in here. it's going

29:44

to cost an absolute fortune. So we

29:46

went there and met this guy called

29:48

Matt and he took us into this

29:50

workshop and it was like he makes

29:52

all the props for these movies. Wow.

29:54

And I was like, oh my God,

29:56

this is unbelievable. This is so cool.

29:58

And we came up, we showed him

30:00

our idea, I mean we were really

30:02

just kind of like sketching him showing

30:04

pictures, like we kind of want something

30:06

like this. He'd gone away, built this

30:08

model, and the whole time I am

30:10

so stressed thinking they charge like tens

30:13

of thousands of pounds for this work,

30:15

if not more. So he just turned

30:17

around to me and we told the

30:19

guy Matt where they're like, it's not

30:21

like six brand. And thank God that.

30:23

Matt was just, he sort of took

30:25

it on as a bit of a

30:27

passion project at this point. Oh my

30:29

God, so he agreed? And so he

30:31

agreed, he did it for six grand

30:33

and he built this bar set and

30:35

he was such a lovely bloke. I

30:37

mean we knew that I was only

30:39

ever getting one set off this guy.

30:42

I was never going to be able

30:44

to afford the stuff that he was

30:46

doing. So I was like, okay, just

30:48

thank you very much. And he built

30:50

it and it was amazing. And the

30:52

fact he would invite us over to

30:54

the workshop to see how the builds

30:56

go in and all this and it

30:58

was a really cool experience. And yeah,

31:00

we hired out of room and we

31:02

built the set to the dimensions of

31:04

the room so that the only way

31:06

it would fit, like the only way

31:08

it would fit, like imagine the walls,

31:11

like it's pushed right up against the

31:13

bat wall. We had a producer at

31:15

the time, the producer couldn't be in

31:17

the room at the same time the

31:19

filming has happened because there's no space

31:21

because there's no space. he would press

31:23

record and then go like that and

31:25

then we had about three months and

31:27

it went way better than we could

31:29

have imagined. People were loving the set

31:31

and that was such a unique selling

31:33

point for us and we saw the

31:35

way video podcasting was going because traditionally

31:37

it was all very audio. It's the

31:40

reason why you know you have cameras

31:42

here, you can clip it up, put

31:44

it on TikTok and I have to

31:46

give like... 90% of the credit to

31:48

chip for that he really saw that

31:50

vision and where it was going. Yeah,

31:52

that just became that and then it

31:54

sort of smiled. We got bigger and

31:56

bigger spaces and yeah, the podcast just

31:58

kept. We ended up doing a deal

32:00

with Spotify at the time. It was

32:02

pretty common. They were handing out these

32:04

deals. So what did that look like?

32:06

It was nice. It was a nice,

32:09

it was a nice, it was a

32:11

good deal. Do you know what, at

32:13

the time we did the Spotify deal

32:15

where the podcast would go exclusively over

32:17

there. There was no video. Or sorry,

32:19

I can't remember if there was, maybe

32:21

there did in the second year, but

32:23

we moved it over there, so it

32:25

was like exclusively on there. And we

32:27

just took the money that they gave

32:29

us. And again, because we were doing

32:31

YouTube anyways, we didn't need this Spotify

32:33

money. Like, don't get me wrong, it

32:35

was lovely to have there, but we

32:38

didn't necessarily need it. So we decided,

32:40

right, let's, we had people talk to

32:42

us, I want to set like yours.

32:44

I want to make a podcast like

32:46

the Fellas, you know, for them, we

32:48

felt sort of very flattered people were

32:50

telling us as the gold standard of

32:52

what we see as a podcast now

32:54

in terms of the visuals now in

32:56

terms of the visuals, and the visuals,

32:58

and everything. So we just decided, right,

33:00

let's take this money and we'll do

33:02

your podcast for you. Yeah. Because I

33:04

was wondering why you would do that

33:07

deal when you've done everything on your

33:09

own? Well, it's still us doing our

33:11

podcast. Yeah. But Spotify, when we did

33:13

that Spotify deal, it was very clear

33:15

what they had signed. And there was

33:17

nothing in there. There was only one

33:19

instance where they had asked us to

33:21

get rid of something for the most

33:23

part, though. It was very much. Do

33:25

whatever you want and they were great

33:27

in that sense And then yeah, the

33:29

sort of two years had run at

33:31

its course They'd stop doing these type

33:33

of like big lump sum deals their

33:36

strategy had completely changed and and It

33:38

was perfect timing for us because the

33:40

the fellow studios now which hosts sort

33:42

of 12 13 14 14 podcast It

33:44

was at a stage where perfect the

33:46

fellows can now go into what we

33:48

had created into this machine. Yeah we

33:50

are now seeing sort of three, four

33:52

times what we were earning on the

33:54

Spotify deal. And to us, that Spotify

33:56

ideal was already extremely lucrative. So the

33:58

fact that we knew... we'd We've created

34:00

something really special here And the the proof

34:02

is in the pudding, in the sense

34:04

that we wanted our own podcast to

34:06

be under this production company and work

34:08

within the same parameters that all the

34:11

other podcasts work work. Because it's one of

34:13

those those like, oh, okay, So you've built this this

34:15

podcast company and you're going to work

34:17

with all these creators that you claim

34:19

to support your own podcast claim to even but

34:21

your of that. isn't even doesn't make

34:23

sense. That doesn't show much. sense. That

34:25

doesn't show much, you know, you to sort

34:27

of live that. live that. So. that's what

34:29

we did what we did and we're lucky lucky

34:31

that. So is So is that why you left

34:33

a Spotify deal? Yeah, I mean we we mean back there

34:36

back there were definitely negotiations that

34:38

that happened about a renewal deal

34:40

We had just had just seen what

34:42

we at at the fellow studios and

34:44

run the numbers run the numbers

34:46

like with everything. And we're just it's night

34:48

night and day between it's a a little

34:51

bit scary because you go from guaranteed

34:53

cash cash to we're gonna do do this ourselves. And

34:55

we knew the first six months. months. were,

34:57

they weren't going to be great gonna be great

34:59

because you're building to it. So once to

35:01

it. we're like, cool, we're not we'd left care what

35:03

we're we're not going to care what we're going

35:05

to earn for the next six months. And I'm

35:07

so glad that we made that decision because now because

35:10

now we're We're very fortunate that we're of

35:12

that record breaking numbers for our podcast for

35:14

our a lot of the other ones a

35:16

lot of that must be scary But

35:18

that that scary doing that with no guarantee.

35:20

Yeah. Yeah. But but at the same time, like, fuck

35:22

it. it. Do you know, I mean, like, what, you just always,

35:24

you you can't always take that safe

35:26

option. And I I said, we are

35:28

also in a privileged position where. where,

35:31

Look, the great. great, but we're still going to

35:33

still going to be able to pay

35:35

our bills if, if, if, if we

35:37

don't earn any money off this podcast.

35:39

So we definitely had that nice that took a

35:41

lot that took a lot of pressure

35:43

off because I completely understand why people

35:45

would take guaranteed money. money. but I think

35:47

that's also another reason why we created.

35:50

this studio in the first place

35:52

was because a lot of big companies

35:54

take advantage of knowing that. So they

35:56

know they know that you you would much

35:58

prefer a minimum gap. and you

36:00

will take a big cut on what you

36:02

could potentially be earning just to make sure

36:04

that you get that minimum guarantee and that

36:07

safety that that money is coming in every

36:09

month and I get that that's fine but

36:11

if you're willing to trust and really believe

36:13

in you as a podcast or in your

36:15

show then the potential is so much higher

36:18

if you don't go down the minimum guarantee

36:20

route. openly said you're the only person apart

36:22

from him who can you know speak animal

36:24

if you're like do you ever come across

36:26

any backlash for some of the you know

36:29

position during like obviously in the enclosure with

36:31

the with the with the grillers and with

36:33

the Cubs who are now full lion-size. I

36:35

think it's really important that if you do

36:37

any type of video and you're posting it

36:40

on social media with any type of animal

36:42

you explain it thoroughly of what the situation

36:44

is because We've been culturalized and there's so

36:46

many dreadful influences out there that have these

36:48

animals as pets. And also like if I

36:51

get a comment which is like these animals

36:53

can't go back to the wild, they're not

36:55

going to survive. To put us through their

36:57

respect, I think you're dumb because like any

36:59

smop, if you're going to make a claim

37:02

like that, look at your facts. You know,

37:04

like I would understand if they said that

37:06

and we had never sent an animal back

37:08

to the wild, like our survival, like our

37:10

survival rate of our gorillas back to the

37:13

wild successfully. Yeah, exactly. So like if there's

37:15

like a few comments, I'm just like, I'm

37:17

not responding to this. Like I've explained that

37:19

you can research, if you have such a

37:21

strong opinion, research about something. And also I

37:24

think receiving backlash is always like really difficult

37:26

when I think you're not doing the right

37:28

thing, but I think when you're doing the

37:30

right thing. It doesn't ever affect me because

37:32

I know what we're doing and the right

37:35

thing. So if someone says, I love zoos,

37:37

I'm like, well, you're not my person, you

37:39

know, like I don't, it doesn't bother me

37:41

because I know a lot of people love

37:43

animals and they don't want animals and zoos

37:46

and they're my people. So what would our

37:48

planet look like without conservation? Well, the planet

37:50

can't survive without conservation. Like, it's the most

37:52

important factor. It's how the world runs. You

37:54

know, we need these animals. It runs the

37:57

whole, like, ecosystem. I mean, of course it

37:59

does. I do, you know, to be honest

38:01

with you, I actually, I have a lot

38:03

of hope for the future. I'm really, really

38:05

excited about it because I do think social

38:08

media can be such an amazing tool. And

38:10

as I think... that it's now a time

38:12

that you can have people that care about

38:14

conservation and activism that's not so extreme. Like

38:16

as I said earlier, you can care about

38:19

animals and eat meat, you can care about

38:21

animals and wear leather. Like we don't need

38:23

to be going, I don't need to be

38:25

like gluing my hand to this chair and

38:27

like pouring blood all over you saying like

38:30

animals are important. Like, no one's gonna respond

38:32

to that. I know they don't respond to

38:34

that. So now I have hope that my

38:36

only, my wish is for like, you know.

38:38

Or there are some amazing activists around the

38:41

world. There is, actually, by the way, I

38:43

hate that word, activists, and he's using it.

38:45

I find it so annoying. But there are

38:47

some amazing people around the world that stand

38:49

for amazing things and are doing amazing work.

38:52

And I think now it's time to give

38:54

them more of a voice. And like, I've

38:56

met some of the most amazing conservation people

38:58

around the world that do more for animals

39:00

than any of these people who are at

39:02

these big organized charities charities. They all eat

39:05

meat, they all do this. I don't eat

39:07

meat at all, but I'm saying that I've

39:09

met some people that, you know, there are

39:11

these amazing people in Africa who live in

39:13

the middle of the forest, like the rangers,

39:16

they have leather boots, like what are you

39:18

talking about? Like, you can care about animals,

39:20

and I think it's important now to have

39:22

this whole wave of new people that care

39:24

for something that aren't so extreme, because that's

39:27

how a difference being made. And I do

39:29

want to highlight that I do think that

39:31

I do think that I do think that

39:33

I do think that I do think that

39:35

I do think that I do think that

39:38

I do think that I do think that

39:40

I do think that I do think that

39:42

I do think that I do think that

39:44

I do think that I do think that

39:46

I think that I think that I think

39:49

that I think that I think that I

39:51

think that I think that I think that

39:53

I think that I think that I think

39:55

that I think that I think that I

39:57

think that I think that I think that

40:00

I 50 years ago that works, but I

40:02

think nowadays people are so bored of that

40:04

and they're so bored of like the 20

40:06

year old that thinks you know everything about

40:08

everything and like start lecturing you like I

40:11

don't want to lecture anybody yeah I just

40:13

want to be able to have a conversation

40:15

and also learn like I'm enjoying learning so

40:17

much about this topic. Extinction is happening at

40:19

a hundred times faster rate than evolution. You

40:22

know what will happen if we don't act

40:24

now? Well there'll be nothing, it will all

40:26

go. It's very simple. And also do you

40:28

know how much money is being wasted on

40:30

I mean it's so sad but there's just

40:33

money being wasted and doing absolutely nothing for

40:35

conservation and there's so much potential there's so

40:37

much like if we were given the right

40:39

amount of money there's so much amazing work

40:41

that we could do how much does it

40:44

cost to run your parks each year yeah

40:46

there's never enough money because there's always stuff

40:48

to be done how much does it cost

40:50

to send an animal back to Africa like

40:52

a lot an elephant for example how do

40:55

you even get that's expensive on the elephant

40:57

one we're sending 13 elephants on two jumbo

40:59

planes on Qatar Airways on Qatar Airways back

41:01

to Africa and that is an expensive one

41:03

Can you not get, like, do they not

41:06

volunteer the planes? Katara is giving us the

41:08

planes, but it's expensive because we spend an

41:10

awful lot of money on the crates. It's

41:12

expensive, but again, it can be done. There's

41:14

been some really wonderful people that have been

41:17

supportive, but it's never enough, like with this

41:19

sort of thing. There's never, there's so much

41:21

money to be raised and to get, which

41:23

is why I'm like... I'm like, my opinion

41:25

is if I can build a platform that's

41:28

really strong, hopefully I can generate more money

41:30

for these animals. Like, that's my main goal.

41:32

Because I also think, like, if you can

41:34

make swing trendy, people with money love to,

41:36

like, be a part of swing that's trendy,

41:39

you know? Yeah. I've seen that so many

41:41

times where big people with a lot of

41:43

money are giving to, like, like, the whole

41:45

point of this is... But again, doing it

41:47

for these animals, because we have to do

41:49

it, because if not us, then who? And

41:52

that's a wrap for today's master class.

41:54

on entrepreneurship, grit and

41:56

personal growth. I hope

41:58

you're feeling as inspired

42:00

as I am after

42:03

hearing these incredible stories

42:05

of resilience and leadership

42:07

from our amazing guests,

42:09

whether it's pushing through

42:11

rejection taking risks, or

42:14

balancing personal and professional growth, these

42:16

lessons are something we can

42:18

all take with us into our

42:20

daily lives. Remember? No

42:22

matter where you are in your

42:24

journey, setbacks and challenges are just part

42:26

part the path to success. It's about

42:28

how you handle them. Stay resilient

42:30

and keep pushing forward. Thank

42:33

you so much for tuning in. And

42:35

if you love this episode, don't forget

42:37

to subscribe and share it with someone

42:39

think needs that extra boost of motivation

42:41

today. and I'll be back next

42:43

week with more powerful insights. But until then. keep

42:46

believing in yourself and keep chasing

42:48

those goals. You got it. Enjoy

42:54

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42:56

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