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1:01

International Incorporated International Incorporated, term

1:03

supply. term supply. Is it

1:06

even necessary? Why does it

1:08

keep getting pushed? Hey y'all,

1:10

you're listening to explain it to

1:12

me. The show where you call

1:14

with your question and then book

1:16

your ticket to answer town. I'm

1:18

John Glenn Hill and today's question

1:21

is nearly a quarter century in

1:23

the making. Hi, my name is

1:25

Tessa and I would like to

1:27

know what on earth is going

1:29

on with the implementation and enforcement

1:31

of real ID. I know the

1:33

law was passed back in I

1:35

think 2005 in response to 9-11.

1:37

I was just at the airport

1:39

last night and I saw that

1:41

enforcement was delayed until 2025. So

1:43

what on earth is happening in

1:45

the last... 20 years that this

1:48

law keeps getting delayed. Do we

1:50

just throw up our hands there

1:52

and give up? Is this sunk

1:54

cost policy? Let me know. That's

1:57

right. Today, TSA stands for the

1:59

truth-seeking agency. The debate over real

2:01

ID is real. It's been that

2:03

way for 20 years. So what's

2:05

taking so long? That story starts

2:07

in the aftermath of 9-11. If

2:10

you, like me, are old

2:12

enough, you likely remember exactly

2:14

where you were that day.

2:16

Justin Oberman was at the

2:18

US Department of Transportation. I

2:21

started there in the summer of

2:23

2001, and seven weeks after I

2:25

got there, 9-11 happened. whole place

2:28

was obviously turned upside down because

2:30

that's how he became one of TSA's

2:32

first employees. I was asked to come

2:34

in and help set up the agency

2:37

and we started Thanksgiving 2001 with three

2:39

people in a conference room not much

2:41

bigger than the room I'm sitting in

2:43

now and the rest is history as they

2:45

say by the end. Before 9-11 airport

2:48

security looked really different. You were screened

2:50

but not by TSA. If you didn't

2:52

have a ticket you could still hang

2:54

out at the gate like I remember

2:57

flying to my grandmas with my mom

2:59

one summer. When my dad walked us

3:01

to security, I hugged him over the

3:03

table they used to search our bags.

3:05

You cannot do that anymore. By the

3:08

end of 2002, we had hired, trained,

3:10

and deployed 65,000 people at

3:12

450 airports and bought and

3:14

installed two or three billion

3:16

dollars worth of equipment and

3:18

took over aviation security for

3:20

the whole country. It was

3:22

a... unbelievable 13-month experience and

3:25

will never ever see anything

3:27

like that again. The 9-11 Commission

3:29

wrote a list of recommendations.

3:31

Everything from physically securing planes' cockpits

3:34

to making sure when people board

3:36

planes there's a way to check

3:38

who they are and that they're

3:40

not terrorists. In response to

3:43

those recommendations, Jim Sensenbrenner,

3:45

a representative from Wisconsin,

3:48

puts forward a new bill.

3:50

Today I am introducing the real

3:52

ID Act. The goal of the

3:55

Real ID Act is straightforward. It

3:57

seeks to prevent another 9-11-type terrorist

3:59

attack. by disrupting terrorist travel.

4:01

American citizens have the right

4:03

to know who is in

4:05

their country that people are

4:07

who they say they are

4:10

and that the name on

4:12

the driver's license is the

4:14

real holder's name, not some

4:16

alias. The 9-11 hijackers could

4:18

have used their passports to

4:20

board the planes, but only

4:22

one did. And why was

4:25

that? Those murders chose our

4:27

driver's licenses and state IDs

4:29

as a form of identification

4:31

because these documents allowed them

4:33

to blend in and not

4:35

raise suspicion or concern. The

4:38

law passes in 2005 and

4:40

the clock starts ticking. States

4:42

have just three years to

4:44

reconfigure how they issue state

4:46

IDs to make sure they

4:48

meet certain requirements. In addition

4:51

to featuring names and pictures,

4:53

the new real IDs also

4:55

needed physical security features to

4:57

prevent counterfeiting and quote, machine

4:59

readable technology. And when issuing

5:01

these IDs, states had to

5:04

do things like store copies

5:06

of documents used to verify

5:08

identity and create a database

5:10

that other states could access

5:12

to. That OG TSA guy, Justin

5:15

Oberman, I asked him about that. What

5:17

problem were... slash our real

5:19

ID's supposed to solve? Like

5:21

what is the issue that

5:23

it's like, all right, real

5:25

ID, this is our solution?

5:27

I think in general terms,

5:30

the argument concisely

5:32

stated would be that it

5:35

was too easy to get

5:37

a lowercase our real ID

5:39

was enacted. And so it's one

5:41

thing to make a fake driver's license

5:44

in your garage if you want to

5:46

go to a bar when you're under

5:48

21. But it's another thing if you

5:50

can actually get an official real

5:52

ID when you have some kind

5:55

of nefarious intent. So the theory of

5:57

the case is that you have to

5:59

demonstrate. with multiple proof

6:01

points, let me put it

6:04

that way, that you are

6:06

in fact who you say

6:08

you are. Now the reason

6:10

that this has limitations, and

6:12

this gets back to Tess's

6:14

point about sunkos fallacy and all

6:16

that, is that at some level,

6:18

it doesn't really matter if you

6:20

are in fact who you say

6:22

you are, if you have evaded.

6:25

the grasp of law enforcement. And the

6:27

way I always think about counterterrorism is

6:29

there are two kinds of potential

6:31

threats. There are people we know we're

6:34

worried about who we've lost track of,

6:36

and there are people we need to be

6:38

worried about who we don't know that we need

6:40

to be worried about. And the reason I

6:42

bring that up is this is one of

6:44

these things where it has not been difficult

6:46

to poke holes in the real ID paradigm,

6:49

which is why you now see a two-decade

6:51

plus delay. It's left itself

6:53

open to these counter

6:55

arguments that are pretty strong,

6:57

despite the fact that the

7:00

underlying intent may have been okay.

7:02

You layer on that the rhetoric that

7:04

it's a national ID, and again,

7:06

I don't think it is. Okay?

7:08

I mean, now we're slowed down,

7:10

and you do, you know, in

7:12

other words, a year turns into

7:14

five turns into ten turns into

7:16

twenty before we kind of even

7:18

know it. Which again, I think

7:20

it was kind of the underlying

7:22

brilliance of test this question. Did

7:25

you expect that we'd be here

7:27

in 2025 still without real IDs?

7:29

Wouldn't it predict it 20 years,

7:31

but this was going to be very

7:33

difficult to do. Every state has a

7:35

lot of prerogative. They have a lot

7:38

of authority. So I think we all

7:40

thought that it was going to be

7:42

a long gestation period. Never would have

7:45

guessed this, obviously. Couldn't have predicted that.

7:47

So the federal government established the law

7:49

and it was up to the states

7:51

to figure out how to get their

7:54

IDs But what happened next? I asked

7:56

team explain it to me to look

7:58

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select Ash, Google Gemini, results may

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very based on input check responses

9:13

for accuracy for accuracy. may

9:15

vary based on input, check

9:17

responses for accuracy. You're now

9:19

free to move about the

9:22

podcast. We're back. It's explained to

9:24

me. I'm Janklin Hill, and I'm

9:26

joined now by a fellow traveler.

9:28

Hello, Janklin. Please real ID yourself.

9:31

Yes. My name is Carla Javier.

9:33

I'm the supervising producer on this

9:35

really great podcast called Explain It

9:37

to Me. You might have heard

9:40

of it. And I worked with

9:42

our founding producer Sophie LaLawn to

9:44

find Tessa some answers. Okay, so

9:46

what happened to real ID? Why has

9:48

it taken so long? Well, let's start

9:51

with the process of getting in ID.

9:53

For a lot of people, that's a

9:55

driver's license. Driver's licenses are issued by

9:58

states. Or in your case. JQ

10:00

since you live in Washington DC,

10:02

your district. The driver's license is

10:05

first and foremost a state-issued

10:07

document that is owned, created,

10:09

and delivered to individuals through

10:11

state government. The interesting thing

10:13

about real ID, of course,

10:15

is that is a federal

10:18

law that puts federal requirements

10:20

on top of what is

10:22

a state document and asks

10:24

the states to carry out

10:26

those requirements. That is Ian Grossman.

10:28

Sophie and I called him up

10:30

because he heads up this group

10:32

called the American Association of Motor

10:34

Vehicle Administrators, which is basically a

10:37

group of all of the DMVs

10:39

in state police in the US

10:41

and Canada. And he told us

10:43

that one reason why RealID wasn't

10:45

implemented immediately was because it

10:47

couldn't be. The law passed in

10:49

2005, but it then took a

10:51

few years for the Department of

10:53

Homeland Security to finalize the rules.

10:55

So even though states knew it

10:58

was coming, there wasn't much they

11:00

could do about in 2005, 6,

11:02

7. They had to wait until

11:04

Department of Homeland Security published the

11:06

final rules around what exactly were

11:08

expected of states to do.

11:10

And JQ, DHS published those rules in

11:12

January of 2008. And then at that

11:14

time, some state said, okay, we're going

11:17

to go ahead and do this. Other

11:19

states reacted in a way that said,

11:21

you know what, this is a unfunded

11:23

federal mandate. State drivers'

11:25

licenses are state documents, and

11:27

we're not interested in doing

11:29

what the federal government is telling

11:31

us to do. There was a lot

11:33

of focus at that time right

11:35

after 9-11 on the relationship between

11:37

civil liberties and national

11:40

security. This is Udi Ofer. He

11:42

worked with the New York Civil Liberties

11:44

Union back then, and he said

11:46

that people's concerns about what real ID

11:49

meant for privacy and freedom of movement

11:51

also added to the delay. Most people

11:53

have no idea what this law is

11:56

about other than thinking of it as

11:58

a mere inconvenience that they're... about

12:00

to face in the Department

12:02

of Motor Vehicles. But when

12:04

the law passed, there was

12:06

an incredible ideological diversity

12:09

in the voices of

12:11

opposition. Tell me about that.

12:13

Who were the people who were

12:15

against this? I have so many

12:17

memories of driving to Upstate New

12:20

York to me with local gun

12:22

owners of America grassroots groups that

12:24

were really terrified about. what it

12:26

would mean for their Second Amendment

12:28

rights if the Real Idea Act

12:30

came into effect, and then the

12:33

next day I would meet with

12:35

LGBT rights groups who were worried

12:37

about what this meant for the

12:39

trans community, you know, interspersed between,

12:41

I mean, with immigrants rights groups.

12:43

I mean, there was really this

12:45

incredible coalition that was diverse, that

12:48

was very much worried. One of

12:50

those people was Sheena Bellows. Back

12:52

then, she was the executive director

12:54

of the ACLU in Maine and

12:57

a leader in the opposition

12:59

to RealID. We had two

13:01

chief concerns about the Real ID

13:04

Act. First, that the concept

13:06

of a national ID card

13:08

or a national driver license

13:10

is really contrary to a

13:12

free society. Second, from

13:14

a practical perspective.

13:16

creating a one-stop shop

13:19

for identity thieves where

13:21

authenticating documents will be

13:23

housed from people all across

13:25

the country really raised concerns

13:28

about individual privacy

13:30

and security. So in

13:33

January 2007, Maine passed a resolution

13:35

declaring their refusal to implement the

13:37

real ID law. Oh, wow. I

13:39

know, and it wasn't just a

13:41

main thing either, JQ. The New

13:43

Hampshire State Senate is slated to take

13:46

up the bill to reject the real

13:48

ID Act today. New Hampshire Democratic Governor

13:50

John Lynch says if it passes, he'll

13:53

sign it into law. As that

13:55

2008 deadline approached, more and more

13:57

states, both blue and red, started

13:59

passing these laws. basically saying they're not

14:01

going to issue real IDs. The Montana

14:03

legislature passed a bill that

14:06

instructs the governor and the attorney

14:08

general not to implement any provisions of

14:10

the real ID. And this is the

14:12

only thing that I know of that

14:15

has united the farthest left to the

14:17

farthest right in Montana politics. You get

14:19

the idea. Yeah, state take this.

14:21

And it became clear that most

14:23

states wouldn't be ready to

14:26

implement real ID for their

14:28

residents. And even if they

14:30

were getting millions of people

14:32

new IDs is a logistical

14:34

undertaking. There are three major

14:37

buckets of the requirement for

14:39

real ID. One bucket really refers

14:41

to as what is expected

14:43

of the customer when they

14:45

bring in documentation to prove

14:47

they are eligible for a

14:49

real ID credential. However, for

14:51

a state to be able

14:54

to accept all that documentation,

14:56

they need certain business processes

14:58

and technology to capture it,

15:00

store it, verify it. So

15:02

for example, when the Real

15:04

ID Act require that you

15:06

have a social security number,

15:08

that you can come in,

15:10

the state collects it, and can

15:12

verify that it's a good social

15:14

security number, all states need to

15:17

be connected to the Social Security

15:19

administration to confirm, yes, that is

15:21

a good social security number. and

15:23

they weren't connected before.

15:25

Some were, not all were

15:27

yet at the time. The

15:29

second big bucket had to

15:31

do with the physical license

15:33

itself. The real ID requirement

15:35

required certain security requirements in

15:38

the physical card? Like what? Well...

15:40

Some of which I can't talk

15:42

about because they're pervert security requirements,

15:44

but one thing that is more

15:46

commonly talked about is the markings

15:48

of the card. So if you

15:50

have a real ID compliant card,

15:52

your card has a star on

15:54

the card that says it's a

15:56

real ID compliant card. What sounds

15:59

like a simple... stamp on a

16:01

card requires a change in production process

16:03

for a state that is printing

16:05

a driver's license. And not just one

16:07

driver's license, right? Like a lot of

16:09

driver's licenses. Exactly, right? Think

16:11

about, you know, whether it's

16:13

a, from the smallest states

16:15

with smallest populations to California

16:18

on the other end that's

16:20

got millions and millions of

16:22

driver's licenses, those changes take

16:24

time to build into the

16:26

system. The third bucket had

16:28

to do with physical requirements

16:30

where... The DMV branch offices

16:32

that were collecting these documents

16:34

and the places where the

16:36

driver's licenses were being produced

16:38

had certain physical security protocols,

16:40

barriers, controlled access. And so

16:42

that takes first getting the

16:44

money to do the work,

16:46

which states had to go

16:49

to their state legislatures, get

16:51

budgets, begin projects, go through

16:53

procurement, and then implement it.

16:55

We know By design, government

16:57

works at a certain speed.

16:59

Did that initial deadline seem

17:02

realistic, unrealistic at the

17:04

time, given all the things that you

17:06

just explained to me? The initial deadline

17:08

was never realistic. Hmm. And

17:10

JQ, here's something very interesting that

17:13

Sophie found. Initially, the Department of

17:15

Homeland Security assumed that 100% of

17:17

people would get real IDs. I

17:20

know. But once they realize that

17:22

the states would not require everyone

17:25

to get a real ID and

17:27

instead would continue to offer IDs

17:29

that are legitimate, but don't necessarily

17:32

meet the real ID acts requirements,

17:34

they drop that estimate to

17:36

75%. Okay. So here's what I still

17:38

want to know. And this seems to

17:41

be at the heart of Tesla's question

17:43

too. Is this not a law? You

17:45

know, if there was a May 2008

17:47

deadline, how are we still talking about

17:49

this now in 2025? Yes, you're totally

17:51

right. While there was all of this

17:54

opposition, it was still a law. A

17:56

lot of people were debating, but ultimately

17:58

a law on the books. being

18:00

said, imagine what would happen

18:02

if they started enforcing it

18:05

before all those people got

18:07

IDs that met the requirements.

18:09

So just picture the line at

18:12

the TSA checkpoint, JQ. Oh God.

18:14

Yeah, no, people are already on

18:16

edge at the airport. That would

18:18

only make things way worse. Yeah,

18:20

so that's where the extensions

18:23

come in. So that original

18:25

deadline, remember, was in 2008.

18:27

So that got extended to

18:29

2009. And then 46 states

18:31

and territories told DHS they

18:33

probably couldn't meet that deadline

18:35

either. So it got extended

18:37

again. All the while there

18:39

was talk of repealing or

18:41

replacing the real ID requirements

18:43

and also push back to

18:45

that pushback from people like

18:48

Jim Simpson Brenner. States need

18:50

to understand that the January

18:52

2013 deadline will in fact

18:54

be the final deadline. I

18:56

certainly hope that DHS will

18:58

not abrogate one of its

19:00

responsibilities to the American people

19:03

by once again extending the

19:05

deadline. So the years pass,

19:07

the negotiations continue, and the

19:09

extensions just keep on

19:11

coming. Eventually, states, even the

19:14

ones that initially refused, do

19:16

start to offer the option

19:18

of real ID compliant licenses.

19:20

Many of them alongside regular

19:23

old licenses. But that doesn't

19:25

mean everyone who had concerns

19:27

was totally on board just

19:29

yet. Remember Shenabelos

19:31

from before? Mm-hmm. Well, in

19:34

2016, she ran for office as

19:36

a Democrat and got elected

19:38

to Maine's state Senate. I

19:40

teamed up with Republican

19:42

senators in my state to call

19:45

on President Trump to

19:47

repeal the real ID, and that

19:49

didn't happen. Did you

19:51

ever hear from the administration

19:53

about why they didn't? So

19:56

we never received an

19:58

answer. Though over the years... some

20:00

of the concerns she and

20:02

others had do eventually get

20:04

addressed. We are not

20:07

uploading authentication documents into

20:09

a federal database, for

20:12

example. So that does provide

20:14

a measure of comfort to

20:16

individuals who are worried about

20:18

identity theft and security

20:21

breaches. I think additionally,

20:23

we haven't seen real ID be

20:25

used as a national ID card

20:27

to date 20 years later. And

20:29

another big concern states had,

20:32

remember, was funding, and that

20:34

starts to come through. States

20:36

have put up considerable amount

20:38

of funds of their own.

20:40

The federal government has invested

20:42

heavily in supporting the states

20:44

through grants, through building some

20:47

of the technology platforms that

20:49

have needed to be built to

20:51

make it work. But then... Oh boy.

20:53

The coronavirus pandemic has forced the

20:55

federal government to delay the deadline

20:58

on those real ID cards. Yesterday,

21:00

President Trump said to maintain social

21:02

distancing. He doesn't want to require

21:05

people to visit the GMV. So

21:07

a new deadline on real ID

21:09

will be announced. So another extension

21:12

then? Yes. And then that one

21:14

gets extended too. Oh my gosh.

21:16

And I gotta tell you about

21:18

one more interesting thing that happened

21:20

in 2020. Okay. What happened? What

21:22

happened? So Shenobellos gets elected Secretary

21:24

of State of Maine, and get

21:27

this. So in Maine, the Secretary

21:29

of State is in charge of

21:31

the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, which

21:34

means a self-described real ID critic

21:36

suddenly found herself in a position

21:38

where she is bound by law

21:41

to issue something she spent years

21:43

fighting. Oh my gosh! Yeah, see

21:46

how she talks about it. From

21:48

the Bureau Motor Vehicles perspective now that

21:50

I had the DMV, I want to

21:52

make sure that Mainers can travel freely

21:54

around the country. I want to make

21:56

sure that they're able to get on

21:59

planes, that they're able to enter

22:01

federal buildings, courthouses,

22:03

and the likes. And so I want to

22:05

make sure that they know that they need

22:07

either a real ID or a

22:10

passport or passport card

22:12

or other federally recognized

22:14

documentation at least once that

22:16

deadline hits. Although it's unclear, they

22:19

may kick the can down the road

22:21

again. Do you have your real ID?

22:23

You know, I did. I didn't have

22:25

it. I opted out and again, I

22:27

collected signatures for the repeal

22:29

and I was one of the leaders

22:32

in trying to repeal Mainz

22:34

Real ID. But when I became

22:36

Secretary of State, especially because

22:38

I'd heard concerns from women

22:40

about the difficulty in getting

22:42

it and because I was

22:45

concerned about the security. procedures

22:47

in place at means Bureau of Motor

22:49

Vehicles. I did move forward with getting

22:52

the real ID to see what was

22:54

involved, see how hard it was, and

22:56

then see what happened to my data.

22:58

It gave me confidence in the professionalism

23:01

and leadership of my team at the

23:03

main Bureau of Motor Vehicles. It hasn't

23:05

changed my advocacy at the federal level,

23:07

because again, in America, Our life

23:10

has always been about options. The

23:12

freedom to be who we are,

23:14

to be ourselves, and to do

23:16

what we want in a free

23:18

society. And so, sure, I have

23:20

a real idea, but it may

23:22

not be for the person next

23:24

to me. They may have valid

23:27

privacy and civil liberties concerns that

23:29

make them choose to opt out.

23:31

And for that reason, I still

23:33

think it would be the right

23:35

thing for the federal government to

23:37

repeal the law. Wow. So what

23:40

happens now? Funny you should

23:42

ask JQ. We'll talk more

23:44

about that after a quick

23:47

break. Oh my gosh, not

23:49

you leaving me on a

23:52

cliffhanger. Stay tuned. Megan

24:00

Trainer, Laundry

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25:08

Welcome back. Thank you. Sorry

25:10

I couldn't help myself. That's okay.

25:12

So here we are. It's

25:15

2025. We stream our music

25:17

instead of buying CDs. No

25:19

one answers their landlines anymore.

25:21

Tindfish is having a moment.

25:23

Riz, etc. Yes, and the

25:25

year that TSA says they'll

25:27

start enforcing real ID requirements.

25:29

For real this time.

25:31

The deadline is absolutely

25:34

May the 7th, 2025.

25:36

Every air traveler 18 years

25:38

of age and older should

25:40

have a real ID compliant

25:43

ID and if they don't.

25:45

then they should be prepared

25:47

to come to a checkpoint

25:49

with an acceptable ID as

25:51

is defined on TSA.gov.

25:54

Here's the thing though. The

25:56

TSA estimates that by that

25:58

May deadline just Just about

26:00

61% of IDs will be real

26:02

IDs. Mm-hmm. I don't believe them.

26:05

They need more people. And in

26:07

a state like Maine, where there

26:10

was resistance to real

26:12

ID, rates are even lower.

26:14

According to Shenne Bellow's office,

26:17

about 25% of the driver's

26:19

licenses there are real ID

26:21

compliant. And as recently as this

26:24

year, some state legislators introduced another

26:26

bill to repeal the law that

26:28

allows Maine to issue real IDs.

26:30

So what do listeners like tests

26:32

that need to know about the

26:34

deadline this time? Well, the first thing

26:36

to remember is that you don't have

26:39

to have a state-issued ID at the

26:41

TSA checkpoint. You could use your passport,

26:43

for example. That part won't change. But

26:46

for people who do use those state-issued

26:48

IDs, like driver's licenses, it's a little

26:50

complicated. In January, the Department of Homeland

26:52

Security issued a rule that enforcement will

26:55

indeed begin on May 7th, but that

26:57

agencies like TSA will have two more

26:59

years of flexibility in how they enforce

27:02

it. So one way this could work

27:04

is that TSA could decide to do

27:06

something like give written notices to

27:08

people whose state IDs are not

27:11

compliant by the deadline. Okay, here's

27:13

my thing. Why not just extend

27:15

this deadline again? We've done it

27:17

so many times before. So back

27:20

in December, I asked TSA press

27:22

secretary Carter Langston exactly that question.

27:24

Why not just ask for an

27:27

extension? Because that's

27:29

once again kicks the

27:31

can down the road

27:33

and rather than do

27:35

that indefinitely, we really

27:38

do need to start

27:40

doing something. Okay, wow, I

27:42

have a lot I need to

27:44

tell Tessa. Hi Tessa. How are

27:47

you? I'm doing well. It's

27:49

some German weather and

27:51

winter is not the

27:53

best, but other than that.

27:56

Doing all right. Tessa told

27:58

me she's American but went to grad

28:00

school in Germany. It was supposed

28:02

to be a two-year adventure.

28:05

Um, downloaded Hinge one day. Oops

28:07

fell in love. And, um, now

28:09

I'm kind of gonna live here

28:11

and get dual citizenship. Oh my

28:13

gosh, I love everything about this.

28:15

What a, oh my gosh. Here

28:17

in Germany, everyone has that a

28:19

personal ID that is not linked

28:21

to driving that is a standalone

28:24

photo ID. But then the second

28:26

part of that is that you

28:28

don't show any ID at the

28:30

airport for, you know, within the

28:33

EU Schengen zone travel. So that

28:35

was something that kind of had

28:37

my gears turning. Now, something

28:39

to know about the act that

28:42

created the real ID is

28:44

that this isn't just about boarding

28:46

airplanes. There are other places that

28:48

require use of real ID for

28:51

what they call official purposes,

28:53

but... Given that you asked about

28:55

real ID after flying, we're going

28:58

to stick with that. Okay.

29:00

Unless you're trying to enter like

29:02

a federal facility or a

29:04

nuclear plant. Can't say that comes

29:07

up much of my day today,

29:09

but good to know. So the

29:11

real ID became something for the

29:13

states to do, and some states

29:15

really did not like that. And

29:18

why is, why was that? I told

29:20

Tesla what Carla and Sophie

29:22

found in their reporting about

29:25

the law, the pushback, the

29:27

states, and the extensions. Now

29:29

that I'm seeing all of

29:31

the other threads, that's not

29:33

just, you know, boarding the

29:36

airplane, it's making more

29:38

sense. I'm curious what you

29:40

think about all of this. I'm

29:42

thinking that I am very lucky

29:45

that it was one easy for

29:47

me to get a real ID.

29:49

Two, I have a passport. I

29:51

know a lot of Americans don't

29:54

have passports. That it's easy for

29:56

me to travel through airports as

29:58

easily as I can. don't have

30:00

to worry about all this extra,

30:03

you know, documentation and trying to

30:05

get IDs. It came very easy

30:07

to meet, you know, I am

30:09

more sympathetic to people who haven't

30:11

gotten their real IDs yet. If

30:14

you're someone who can keep renewing

30:16

the non-real ID compliant license and

30:18

you're not flying that much and

30:20

you can see this thing just

30:23

keeps getting delay that it's not,

30:25

I understand why. you know, almost

30:27

half the country does not yet

30:29

have a real ID compliant license.

30:32

I want to thank you so

30:34

much for calling in with your

30:36

question. Yes, yes, thank you so

30:38

much for looking into this. If

30:46

you have a question,

30:49

something you'd like us

30:51

to explain to you,

30:53

please be like Tessa

30:56

and give us a

30:58

call. Our number is 1,800,

31:00

618, 845. Hey JQ, it's

31:03

Carla again. I have one

31:05

more thing I want to

31:07

tell you before you wrap

31:10

up. Go for it. We've

31:13

answered Testa's questions about how we got

31:16

here in 2025, still talking about how

31:18

to implement real ID, but I bet

31:20

you and her and our listeners are

31:22

also wondering, well, what's going to happen

31:25

this year? And to be honest, it's

31:27

kind of hard to know for sure.

31:29

There's a new federal administration in town

31:32

and there are a lot of things

31:34

that are changing at the federal level

31:36

as we record this episode. For what

31:39

it's worth, Project 2025 actually calls for

31:41

the privatization of TSA and dismantling of

31:43

the Department of Homeland Security.

31:45

So we reached out to

31:47

TSA, DHS, and the White

31:50

House to understand their stance

31:52

on real ID enforcement. They did

31:54

not answer our questions by

31:56

our publishing deadline. This

32:02

episode of Explain It to Me

32:04

was brought to you by our

32:06

supervising producer, Carla Javier, and our

32:08

founding producer, Sophie Lalonde. And before

32:10

we jump into the credits, I

32:12

want to talk about Sophie for

32:14

a second and give her a

32:16

special thank you. Sophie and I

32:18

worked together every day for years.

32:20

We made the Weeds together and

32:22

then developed Explain it to me

32:24

and produced every episode together until

32:27

January 9th. She's been an amazing

32:29

creative and supportive producer, friend, friend

32:31

and colleague. We can't wait to hear

32:33

what you make next, Sophie. This

32:35

episode was fact-checked by

32:37

Melissa Hirsch. It was mixed, sound-designed,

32:40

and engineered by Andrea Kristen's daughter.

32:42

Jorge just has been our editor

32:44

for the past few months. Thank

32:47

you so much for helping us

32:49

make cool stuff to listen to

32:51

Jorge. I'm your host, John Flynn

32:53

Hill. Thanks for listening, y'all, and

32:56

I can't wait to hear what

32:58

you calling with next. Talk to

33:00

you Sunday. Bye. Bye.