0:04

There are some people in the

0:07

world of Formula One that

0:09

everyone once on their team. I

0:11

think Adrian's unicornies are

0:13

very special, maybe exist

0:16

once. That's how Lawrence Stroll

0:18

described Adrian Newey here on

0:20

F1 Beyond the Grid in

0:22

2020. Five years later, Adrian,

0:24

who we will be joining

0:27

us as our technical managing

0:29

partner of our Formula One

0:31

team. So,

0:35

is Newey's arrival the final piece

0:37

of Strol's master plan to make

0:39

Aston Martin world champions? When will

0:41

the legendary designer's impact be felt?

0:43

And how does all this affect

0:46

Fernando Alonzo's future? These are just

0:48

some of the big questions going

0:50

into the new Formula One season.

0:52

So here on F1B on the

0:54

grid, we're searching through the archives

0:57

to find some answers. I'm Tom

0:59

Clarkson, and in this show, we'll

1:01

take you inside the mind of

1:03

Adrian Newey. We'll ask Fernando Alonzo

1:05

about the likelihood of a return

1:08

to the top step, and we'll

1:10

find out what Lance Stroll's relationship

1:12

with his father is really like.

1:14

Lawrence Stroll bought the force

1:16

India team after they went into

1:19

administration in the summer of 2018.

1:21

They rebranded as racing point for

1:24

two seasons before Lawrence purchased a

1:26

substantial stake in the Aston Martin

1:28

road car company, Aston Martin Lagonda.

1:31

and brought the brand back to

1:33

Formula One in 2021. Although their

1:35

name may have changed a couple

1:38

of times, Stroll's plan for the

1:40

team has always been the same

1:43

to become the best racing team

1:45

in the world. There's several pieces

1:47

to that plan. One is

1:49

recruiting the best people. Second

1:51

is giving them the best

1:53

tools and processes to be

1:55

able to fight for world

1:58

championship. In our case. is

2:00

the brand new Aston Martin campus we're

2:02

building which is about 400,000 square feet.

2:04

Nothing ever built like it before in

2:07

Formula One. It'll be the state-of-the-art Formula

2:09

One facility. We call it a campus

2:11

because it'll be over three buildings.

2:13

Brand new wind tunnel, first new wind

2:16

tunnel since I think in 2004 in

2:18

Formula One and then we'll have a

2:20

building in the center which will be

2:23

for wellness and rest around. We're going

2:25

to have a nursery to take

2:27

care of... people's children, so it's really

2:29

tools that would be needed to be

2:32

fighting for world championships. Have you enjoyed

2:34

that process? Was it a blank sheet

2:36

of paper? Right, lads, what do

2:38

we need? Yeah, well it's a process

2:41

that we started before COVID. We had

2:43

to put it on hold for close

2:45

to two years because of COVID, but

2:48

it's been a team process. It's everybody

2:50

involved in the team of, you

2:52

know, in their departments, department heads of...

2:54

what they needed in terms of premises

2:57

and people in order to be fighting

2:59

for the top. So it's been a

3:02

fantastic experience and it is very

3:04

exciting. Does Aston Martin have to win?

3:06

the world title to be regarded as

3:08

success, the former on program to be

3:11

regarded as a success? No, it doesn't

3:13

have to win a world title, it

3:15

has to be fighting and contending

3:17

for world championships. Winning would be the

3:20

icing on the cake, but it has

3:22

to have the ability every weekend to

3:24

be able to win. Such as the

3:27

vagaries of sport, really, isn't it?

3:29

You can't... Listen, it's like every business

3:31

I've ever run in my life. I

3:33

obviously have a great track record of

3:36

winning. at everything I've done. There's nothing

3:38

closer to more, or that I'm more

3:40

passionate about, than this business. And

3:42

for me, winning here doesn't necessarily mean

3:45

winning the world champion, but means having

3:47

a winning team that's capable each weekend

3:49

and winning the race. Interesting that you

3:52

do refer to it as a

3:54

business, not a sport. Well, it is

3:56

a business. There's been hundreds and... hundreds

3:58

of millions of pounds invested. So it's

4:01

a very large business. It's a very

4:03

large business that has 750 to 800

4:05

employees. There's a road car side

4:07

of it with a couple thousand employees.

4:10

So it's an extremely large business. Is

4:12

it a sport for two hours on

4:14

a Sunday afternoon? Of course it's a

4:17

sport, but a sport is a

4:19

business. A football team is a business

4:21

or a hockey team is a business.

4:23

They're both. People say that this is

4:26

unlike. any other business. Now you're an

4:28

incredibly successful businessman. Would you agree with

4:30

that statement? Yes. And have you

4:32

had to adjust your modus operandi for

4:35

Formula One? Not really adjust the modus

4:37

operandi. It's not dissimilar to any other

4:39

business that it's teamwork. And it's all

4:42

about why I've been so successful

4:44

in my history and my track record

4:46

is part of it is surrounding myself

4:48

with the best people in every business

4:51

of their own. And that's exactly the

4:53

same as implementing that here in Formula

4:55

One. Particularly, because there's even more

4:57

people and more teamwork involved here. So

5:00

it's really about teamwork. You win as

5:02

a team and expression goes, you lose

5:04

as a team. So I find that

5:07

even more relevant in Formula One.

5:09

Have you always wanted to own a

5:11

team? No. Wasn't a sort of boyhood

5:13

dream? No. When did it become a...

5:16

Force India went into administration? Not prior

5:18

to that not prior to that

5:20

never thought of voting a team when

5:23

force India went into administration I always

5:25

Recognized or believed that a formula one

5:27

team Should one day have a very

5:30

large value like an NFL football team

5:32

or a UK football club or

5:34

what have you and why it hadn't

5:36

is because of the unlevel playing field

5:39

with no budget caps You had a

5:41

few teams outspending the others and basically

5:43

that's why they were winning What

5:45

caught my attention with the force Indian

5:48

administration was this was the team that

5:50

was two or three years. if you

5:52

count the year of the administration, in

5:55

fourth place with a fraction of the

5:57

budget, a fraction of the headcount

5:59

of the top teams. So it showed

6:01

that the human capital of these at

6:04

the time, 400 people, and the famous

6:06

expression, punching above, they really did. They

6:08

did more with less. You know,

6:10

they were fourth, the teams that were

6:13

fifth, sixth, seventh, had significantly higher budgets,

6:15

and a lot more headcount, and yet

6:17

this team was able to be. again

6:20

punching above its weight so I said

6:22

to myself with the right leadership

6:24

and vision which I can bring the

6:26

right finances which I can bring there's

6:29

a strong possibility to take this team

6:31

to be one day fighting for championships

6:33

in addition though simultaneously it was

6:35

with the acquisition of liberty because with

6:38

the acquisition of liberty and then putting

6:40

the budget caps into place and the

6:42

more fair cash distribution for the how

6:45

it's divided between the ten teams made

6:47

me check two boxes. So here

6:49

I checked the box, it was a

6:51

team with several years and forth, with

6:54

the right leadership, vision, financing, etc. Could

6:56

be more and the field is now

6:58

leveled with the budget cap. So

7:00

I can't be outspent any longer and

7:03

every year going forward that will be

7:05

more relevant because the history will, time

7:07

will, what will pass and you know,

7:10

everyone will have a similar headcount and...

7:12

identical budgets and then it's about

7:14

who's doing a better job. And we

7:16

already, you know, proved that this team

7:19

could do a better job with basically

7:21

less than the others. So it was

7:23

a combination of, if this would

7:25

have been a team tooling around the

7:28

ninth or tenth place, I would have

7:30

never bought it. I've never entered the

7:32

administration. I would have no interest because

7:35

I know what it takes to take

7:37

a team from tenth and that's

7:39

not what I would have signed up

7:42

for. But it was a combination of

7:44

the two. One without the other wouldn't

7:46

have done it. The body team, no

7:49

I can't as an individual spend

7:51

what Mercedes-Benz or Red Bullots a marketing

7:53

physically drink budget or as an individual,

7:55

it's very hard to compete. with large

7:58

corporations, but now this individual can match

8:00

those large corporations with the budget cap

8:02

in place. So timing is everything?

8:04

In that respect, yes. I wouldn't have

8:07

bought it without those two stars aligning.

8:09

And has that been something that's been

8:11

the case throughout your career? All the

8:14

other brands I kind of started

8:16

from scratch. They had been in business

8:18

for years, but were significantly much smaller

8:20

businesses that I grew to very, very

8:23

large businesses. By great vision. by great

8:25

luck and by surrounding myself with the

8:27

best people in the business. Lawrence,

8:29

you strike me as a very passionate

8:32

man, a force of nature. Are they

8:34

accurate descriptions? I've been referred to that

8:36

once or twice both. In fact, Czecho

8:39

Perez once described you as the

8:41

most motivated person in the garage. Is

8:43

that fair? We have a lot of

8:45

motivated people in the garage, so I'm

8:48

not sure, but passionate. Yes, very. And

8:50

with Lance being a racing driver. Obviously,

8:52

you in charge of the team.

8:54

Is Formula One now the family business?

8:57

Well, it's my business. That is, you

8:59

know, we have other family businesses, not

9:01

at all relevant or in scale or

9:04

size to the investment we have

9:06

today, based on Formula One and Aston

9:08

Martin, the brand. You know, I'm the

9:10

executive chairman and the largest shareholder of

9:13

Aston Martin Lagonda, the road car company.

9:15

So the combination of the two are

9:17

very significant. and largest investment that

9:19

the family has today, yes. Well, you've

9:22

explained where you want the team to

9:24

be in five years time, which is

9:26

challenging for world championships. What about Aston

9:29

Martin Lagonda? Where do you want

9:31

that in five years time? We have

9:33

very clear plans. I've already been executive

9:35

chairman now for about 20 months, and

9:38

happily to say that when I first

9:40

looked and did my due diligence at

9:42

Aston Martin, I saw a car

9:44

company that had probably arguably the most

9:47

beautiful cars in the world. A hundred

9:49

and eight-year-old iconic institutions. that the British,

9:51

and I've really seen since taking over

9:54

the company, the British have the

9:56

pride and feel that they own Aston

9:58

Martin. So it's owned by the country,

10:01

it's unbelievable. And you know, when we

10:03

change from racing point to Aston Martin,

10:05

the level of letters for recruitment for

10:08

applications, there were so many in

10:10

the industry. that it's been overwhelming and

10:12

no idea the power of this brand

10:14

and it really is the power of

10:17

the brand. You know we signed hundreds

10:19

and hundreds of millions of dollars

10:21

of sponsorship before we even had a

10:23

car painted because of the power of

10:26

the brand. People want to be associated

10:28

with this premium luxury 108 year old

10:30

brand and the same with people, the

10:33

letters we've received from people working

10:35

for our competitors, saying we want to

10:37

be part of the journey to bring

10:39

Aston Martin to world champions. It's our

10:42

pride, it's British, so it's blown me

10:44

away, truly blown me away, the

10:46

power that this brand, particularly in the

10:48

UK. So when are you going to

10:51

be ready, Lawrence? We clearly need these

10:53

facilities. We're still operating out of what

10:55

was Eddie Jordan's place, which you could

10:58

imagine and the challenges. 30, I

11:00

don't know, two or three years, whatever

11:02

it was, years ago. We need these

11:04

new facilities to provide, I said, the

11:07

tools and the processes. We're going to

11:09

have our own wind tunnel. You

11:11

know what that means for a formal

11:13

and team. It's dramatic. A lot of

11:16

technologies happened between the last one being

11:18

built in 2004 and today. I'm realistic.

11:20

We need the right time, without pressure,

11:23

to put together the right team

11:25

of people. And with now Aston Martin's

11:27

association by brand, we are attracting. because

11:29

of my passion, my track record, the

11:32

name and the brand, Aston Martin, again

11:34

the facilities we're building. So we

11:36

need it all to come together. And

11:38

then, you know, it's a question of

11:41

time. It's like building any business. Another

11:43

company I've owned took five to seven

11:45

years to start to get it all

11:48

right. Then from seven to ten

11:50

years you grow stronger and stronger. So,

11:52

you know, famous expression. wasn't built in

11:54

the day, there's no business built in

11:57

the day. Formular one team no different

11:59

than any other business. You've got

12:01

to hire all the right people and

12:03

they've got to do a good job.

12:06

Certainly do. So Lawrence, just to end,

12:08

what would it mean to you to

12:10

win a race as Aston Martin? We

12:13

won a race last year as

12:15

racing point. It would mean more because

12:17

of my association now and ownership of

12:20

Aston Martin Lagonda and I have no

12:22

doubt we will win many races. and

12:24

I'm looking forward for that date

12:26

to come. And what would it mean

12:29

to you to win the world title?

12:31

I think it would mean as much

12:33

to me as maybe a little more

12:36

to me I was going to say

12:38

than anybody else who owns a

12:40

team because of the association that I

12:42

have with the brand of having both

12:45

the World Car Company and the Formula

12:47

One team. Would that be the greatest

12:49

achievement of your life? Yes. I

12:51

think that would be fair. Winning

13:07

the world title would be the

13:09

greatest achievement of Lawrence's life. Those

13:12

are strong words. And he stayed

13:14

true to his word because the

13:17

campus at Silverston is now a

13:19

sensational facility. It has the latest

13:21

of everything all laid out in

13:24

a logical Formula One way. And

13:26

Adrian Newey starts work at the

13:28

Silverston-based team this week. He's regarded

13:31

by many as the greatest F1

13:33

designer of all time. His cars

13:35

have won 26 world championships across

13:38

stints at Williams, McLaren and Red

13:40

Bull. And in 2023, when the

13:43

RB20, he designed, won 22 out

13:45

of 23 races in a record

13:47

shattering year for Red Bull. Adrian

13:50

took us on a fascinating journey

13:52

inside his genius mind, sharing his

13:54

thought processes when he's designing cars

13:57

and explaining where his competitiveness comes

13:59

from. When I was

14:01

at school, then I was kind

14:03

of, I suppose, always thought about

14:06

things a bit differently. One example

14:08

that's always stuck in my head

14:10

is that kind of when I

14:12

was, I don't know, about 12

14:14

or so, we had a lesson

14:16

on friction. And it was actually

14:18

a video. And it went through

14:20

the sort of what friction does,

14:23

how it works, etc. And at

14:25

the end of it, the teacher

14:27

said, so everybody is a good

14:29

thing. and I was the only

14:31

one who stuck up my hand

14:33

and said well without friction we'd

14:35

all fall over we wouldn't be

14:37

able to stand up because we'd

14:40

just slide around everywhere and everybody

14:42

laughed and the teacher laughed at

14:44

me and I thought well that's

14:46

a bit unfair because I think

14:48

I actually have a reasonable point

14:50

and it's a silly little example

14:52

but it made me I think

14:54

feels if I needed to prove

14:57

myself and feeling you need to

14:59

prove yourself. is in truth a

15:01

close cousin to being competitive. Do

15:03

you think you still need to

15:05

prove yourself? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean,

15:07

I've been lucky enough to have

15:09

a, obviously a very successful career,

15:11

but I don't really look back

15:14

particularly. I'm not a statistic counter.

15:16

I just enjoy being in it.

15:18

Ever since I was about 10

15:20

or even younger than my ambition

15:22

was to be a... a designer

15:24

in motor racing. And when I

15:26

got my first job in motor

15:28

racing at a little team Fittipoldies

15:31

and Redding, and actually got to

15:33

the end of the first month,

15:35

and I had absolutely no idea

15:37

what I was doing, I was

15:39

fresh out of university, joined as

15:41

junior air dynamicsists, which turned out

15:43

to be senior air dynamics and

15:45

had no aerodynamics team. But anyway,

15:48

I got to the end of

15:50

the first month, had no idea

15:52

what I was doing, as I

15:54

said, and got salary for it.

15:56

And I thought... or a paycheck

15:58

and I thought this is amazing

16:00

here I am of motor racing,

16:02

complete numbty, but I'm getting paid.

16:04

This is fabulous and really I

16:07

can say pretty much, I mean

16:09

it's the odd day of course

16:11

that happens enjoyed, but pretty much

16:13

every day has been a bonus

16:15

and a treat. Your dad was

16:17

a veterinary surgeon. Were you ever

16:19

tempted to follow him in medicine

16:21

and that aspect of science? No,

16:24

not really. I mean... I love

16:26

going on sorts of farm visits

16:28

with him. I kind of sit

16:30

on his knee when I was

16:32

about six and do the steering

16:34

while he did the pedals, that

16:36

sort of thing. And then occasionally

16:38

when I was kind of a

16:41

little bit older into my very

16:43

early teens, then if there was

16:45

an operation at the weekend and

16:47

surgery nurses went around, then I

16:49

would help him with the operation.

16:51

But I think the bit of...

16:53

My dad's... How good were your

16:55

stitches? I definitely wasn't doing any

16:58

stitching. I was handing the utensils

17:00

and trying not to faint. But

17:02

the bit of my dad's makeup

17:04

or interest that did definitely rub

17:06

off, was he was a huge

17:08

car enthusiast. So he had mini

17:10

couperesses and then latest lands and

17:12

so forth and he used to

17:15

enjoy... tinkering with them and modifying

17:17

them and so forth. Had a

17:19

small workshop when it's in the

17:21

garden, which had a lathe and

17:23

basic metalworking equipment and welding equipment

17:25

and so forth. And using that

17:27

workshop I think was probably quite

17:29

key to me. So when I

17:32

was about eight to ten, then

17:34

I'll buy these Tamia 12 scale

17:36

models. The first one was in

17:38

1967. 30s Honda and then the

17:40

second one was a Hill Lotus

17:42

and those 12 scale models were

17:44

great actually because all the parts

17:46

are labelled front upright or front

17:49

top wish phone or whatever so

17:51

you got the terminology in assembling

17:53

them you started to understand how

17:55

the chassis side the car works

17:57

in terms of suspension articulated and

17:59

it's a monocoque that bolts for

18:01

an engine that bolts for a

18:03

gearbox that sort of thing but

18:06

by the time I was about

18:08

11 I was a bit I

18:10

started to become bored with building

18:12

effectively other people's designs so I

18:14

started sketching designs and my own

18:16

or my own designs and then

18:18

used my my dad's workshop to

18:20

make the fold up bits of

18:22

aluminium and make bits of fibreglass

18:25

and so forth to to create

18:27

these 12 scale models, the bits

18:29

I couldn't make, like the tires

18:31

and engine really, I would sort

18:33

of cannibalize off the old models.

18:35

But I think the key part

18:37

of that is there's this old

18:39

thing, is it the 5,000 hour

18:42

rule, that to become 10,000 hours.

18:44

10,000 hours, yeah. Harder than that.

18:46

I probably did do, probably exceeded

18:48

those 10,000 hours and there's sort

18:50

of long boring summer holidays, where

18:52

I would kind of, as I

18:54

say sketch away, and then make

18:56

it. whilst of course I had

18:59

absolutely no idea what I was

19:01

doing. I think the practice of

19:03

sketching and then turning that into

19:05

a 3D object was great practice

19:07

from a very young age. So

19:09

you go to university in Southampton,

19:11

there were Formula One teams using

19:13

the wind tunnel there. Why a

19:16

degree in aeronautics and astronautics and

19:18

not mechanical engineering? Simply that I

19:20

figured that racing cars were closer

19:22

to aircraft than... But that was

19:24

quite forward thinking at the time.

19:26

Yeah, that would have been 1977.

19:28

So I suppose in hindsight maybe

19:30

it was, but you know, I'd

19:33

avidly read every magazine I could

19:35

find that had anything vaguely technical

19:37

in it, visited a few races,

19:39

particularly Mallory Park, which was close

19:41

to where I went to school,

19:43

and that was a great little

19:45

paddock, because you could walk around

19:47

and watch all the... Look at

19:50

all the F2 cars and 5,000s

19:52

and so forth. What impact did

19:54

that have only? Going to Mallory

19:56

and seeing the cars for real?

19:58

Huge. because in those days there

20:00

wasn't actually a loss of television

20:02

or coverage of motor races. So

20:04

actually seeing the cars, hearing them,

20:07

smelling them, looking at them in

20:09

great detail, and the pattern was

20:11

completely open. Nobody minded this bossy

20:13

nose, little kid, kind of poking

20:15

around and in fact the opposite.

20:17

A lot of them would actually

20:19

kind of explain what they were

20:21

doing and so on and so

20:24

forth. That was without doubt key

20:26

combined with my attempts to go

20:28

carting which my dad was quite

20:30

tough. I said I'd love to

20:32

go carting so he went along

20:34

to the local cart track Shenington

20:36

and he made the very accurate

20:38

observation that as far as he

20:41

could see a lot of the

20:43

kids were there not because they

20:45

were really passionate about it but

20:47

because their dads were and it's

20:49

their dad's leading. their childhood vocationally,

20:51

whatever the phrases. So anyway, he

20:53

said, look, if you want to

20:55

go carting, you're going to have

20:57

to buy your own cart. I'll

21:00

double your money, I, for every

21:02

pound I earned, I could, he

21:04

would put a pound in. So

21:06

kind of washing cars and doing

21:08

the newspaper rounds and picking plums

21:10

and from the orchard and selling

21:12

them outside the veterinary practice and

21:14

that sort of thing, earned a

21:17

bit, but not even doubled it,

21:19

didn't earn very much. Anyway. bottom

21:21

line as I bought this very

21:23

old, tired old cart with a

21:25

Villiers engine in it and tried

21:27

racing it and combination of it

21:29

with me was absolutely hopeless. Really?

21:31

I mean, are you being modest?

21:34

No, I'm not. It was kind

21:36

of back-of-the-grid stuff. It wasn't actually

21:38

the driving that really interested me.

21:40

It was how to make the

21:42

cart go faster. So I then

21:44

took myself on a welding course

21:46

at BOC, Brish oxygen in North

21:48

Birmingham, which was a kind of

21:51

a house bus ride from Stratford

21:53

where I grew up. and I

21:55

was about 15 when I did

21:57

it so I got a bit

21:59

of peer pressure from all the

22:01

other guys who were on the

22:03

course and because I actually, for

22:05

whatever reason turned out, be reasonably

22:08

good at it welding and braising

22:10

and became kind of the lecturer's

22:12

pet for that two-week course. I

22:14

got a bit of flack which

22:16

was actually also a good lesson

22:18

because it kind of made me

22:20

start to learn how to fit

22:22

in I developed my brummy accent

22:25

which was quite easy but it's

22:27

back to I think the combination

22:29

of going to Mallory Park, Holton

22:31

Park, the carting it just all

22:33

helped to develop me and to

22:35

say also to understand that I

22:37

needed to get to university which

22:39

suffered a bit of a setback

22:42

when I got checked out of

22:44

school at 16. I went to

22:46

this very Dickensian public school which

22:48

I'll be honest I absolutely hated

22:50

from every single day there. I

22:52

just was just... What aspects of

22:54

it did you hate? Was it

22:56

being away from home? A little

22:59

bit away from home but yeah

23:01

perhaps I was a bit homesick

23:03

for sure but I think the

23:05

key thing for me was... I

23:07

wasn't terribly sporty, I was pretty

23:09

average at sport. In looking back,

23:11

I didn't particularly recognise it at

23:13

the time, but I probably, as

23:15

I mentioned earlier, do look at

23:18

things a bit differently and that

23:20

didn't make me terribly popular. So

23:22

I had one or two friends,

23:24

but not many. I got bullied

23:26

a bit, usual thing. I don't

23:28

know, I just, I couldn't engage

23:30

in my hobbies particularly, although the,

23:32

actually the workshop manager was very

23:35

good and he used to take

23:37

my cart up there and work

23:39

on it there and work on

23:41

it. during the term time. I

23:43

ran it around the chapel. There's

23:45

a sort of load of paths

23:47

around the chapel. And I thought,

23:49

okay, let's just run it around

23:52

and make sure it works. And

23:54

of course, being a two-stroke, it

23:56

made a hell of a racket.

23:58

And so pretty soon the whole

24:00

school turned up to watch me

24:02

going around in this thing, which

24:04

then got shut down. And unfortunately,

24:06

the poor old workshop manager got

24:09

a got twice as heading off

24:11

from the headmaster for it. Yeah,

24:13

it just didn't fit in. And

24:15

so when I met my demise

24:17

after old levels, then... What's that

24:19

called GCS? Can I ask? How

24:21

were you at O levels? Were

24:23

they good? Were they bad? That's,

24:26

you know, it's pretty, I was

24:28

pretty good academically. Yeah, no, that's

24:30

okay. That was actually better at

24:32

the arts, and I was at

24:34

the sciences, if anything. And so

24:36

the careers advisor at school said

24:38

that I should take art, which

24:40

was pretty good at art. I

24:43

have, I've read people referring to

24:45

you as the Michelangelo or former

24:47

ones, so there you go. But,

24:49

so recommendations are English and history

24:51

and... fine but I had no

24:53

interest in doing art English in

24:55

history I was completely single-minded at

24:57

that point of wanting to be

25:00

a work in motor racing as

25:02

a designer it is extraordinary how

25:04

early in your life you knew

25:06

that this is what you wanted

25:08

to do yeah given that there

25:10

was no motorizing in the family

25:12

no I was very lucky to

25:14

be perfectly honest because you know

25:17

obviously for most people they It

25:19

takes them a long time to

25:21

find their vocation, but for whatever

25:23

reason I think with me it

25:25

just clicked from that very young

25:27

age. Can we talk about the

25:29

drawing board, right? Famously you still

25:31

use a drawing board when CAD

25:34

is ubiquitous in informal one. What

25:36

are the advantages of the board,

25:38

the pen and paper if you

25:40

like? That I'm a dinosaur and

25:42

it suits me. But it's extraordinary

25:44

how you still use that and

25:46

yet you are still so current

25:48

as well. For me, it's a

25:50

cadre drawing board. It's a way

25:53

of getting ideas in your head

25:55

down into a medium that can

25:57

be developed from. Typically, nowadays, of

25:59

course, if it's aerodynamic, I'll look

26:01

at the CFD, the computational fluid

26:03

dynamics, which is aerodynamics on computer,

26:05

which is an amazing tool that

26:07

really didn't reach maturity in form

26:10

one until late 90s. So I'll

26:12

kind of look at the CFD.

26:14

I'll sketch from that. sketch some

26:16

ideas, working with my colleagues of

26:18

course. and then draw something. Now,

26:20

I've used the drawing board because,

26:22

to me, it's the language that

26:24

I'm most comfortable and most fluent

26:27

in. If I try to use

26:29

a CAD, I feel I would

26:31

never be as fluent in it.

26:33

I will spend too much time

26:35

thinking about how to operate it

26:37

and not just drawing naturally, if

26:39

you like, subconsciously. The drawing bit

26:41

has to be subconscious now, or

26:44

for me it does. And I

26:46

think... Cadds now, if I watch

26:48

the guys in those sort of

26:50

early years of Cadd, which again

26:52

Cadd came in in properly somewhere

26:54

around the mid-90s, early from the

26:56

mid-90s and formal one, those early

26:58

Cadds systems are quite mechanical. People

27:01

used to have concentrates a lot

27:03

on trying to get it into

27:05

the system. Of course now the

27:07

systems are developed and the guys

27:09

who are fluent in it can,

27:11

if you like, draw subconsciously in

27:13

the way that I can. The

27:15

drawing is not the part that

27:18

is loading is loading them, loading

27:20

them. I'm never going to achieve

27:22

that and to me it actually

27:24

doesn't matter I've become through years

27:26

of practice so I can and

27:28

this probably stems actually back to

27:30

those formative years of sketching models

27:32

than making them I could I

27:35

seem to have quite a good

27:37

ability to be able to visualize

27:39

something in 3D and then push

27:41

it down onto paper in 2D

27:43

whereas the CAD system of course

27:45

does free you that you don't

27:47

you don't have to go through

27:49

the 2D but you can start

27:52

straight in 3D. Did you try?

27:54

and get the hang of CAD.

27:56

I did briefly in my kind

27:58

of gap six months or so

28:00

between leaving Williams and joining McLaren

28:02

then I did go on a

28:04

CAD course and it just didn't

28:06

come naturally so I gave up

28:08

on it I'm afraid. Now look

28:11

the tools at your disposal have

28:13

changed hugely over the years but

28:15

what about your thought process when

28:17

you're designing a new car is

28:19

that the same as when you

28:21

started? Yes it is. I think

28:23

the inputs are more thorough and

28:25

better understood than what... I started

28:28

so if I think back to

28:30

when I started designing the Indy

28:32

cars in kind of 84 your

28:34

knowledge on which to base a

28:36

new design was not as well

28:38

informed as today because we didn't

28:40

the teams are much smaller but

28:42

more importantly we didn't have the

28:45

tools that we have today that

28:47

people often asked what's what's the

28:49

biggest revolution that I've seen in

28:51

informal in motor racing through the

28:53

years it has to be computing

28:55

pair. and the simulation tools that

28:57

run off the back of that

28:59

because it's that that allows a

29:02

much more thorough understanding the car.

29:04

But where does the process start?

29:06

You obviously look at the rule

29:08

but first and then what's the

29:10

first thing you're looking at when

29:12

you're designing a car? Is it

29:14

the position of the power unit?

29:16

Is it the wheel base? The

29:19

big rule change that we had

29:21

at start of last year, which

29:23

I think it can easily argues

29:25

the biggest single rule change we

29:27

had since Venturi got banned in

29:29

at the end of 1982, I

29:31

think it was... Yeah, sitting down

29:33

is a rule, because you say,

29:36

then trying to understand what architecture

29:38

in terms of where do you

29:40

put the front wheels, where do

29:42

you put the rear wheels relative

29:44

to the fixed bits of the

29:46

series of sorts of chassis engine

29:48

gearbooks, underlying architecture you have to

29:50

decide. And then from that, starting

29:53

to, in my case, what I

29:55

concentrated on was that architecture and

29:57

then the front and rear suspension,

29:59

because they're kind of key bits

30:01

that... you want to try and

30:03

get right if you possibly can.

30:05

If you get the bodywork wrong,

30:07

within reason you can change it

30:10

during a season, but if you

30:12

get the underlying architecture wrong, at

30:14

the very least you're stuck with

30:16

it for one season. When Adrian

30:18

announced his departure from Red Bull

30:20

in May 2024, there was lots

30:22

of speculation that he joined Lewis

30:24

Hamilton at Ferrari this season. I

30:27

did actually ask Adrian during that

30:29

chat a couple of years ago

30:31

whether he regretted not having Ferrari

30:33

on his CV. I'm mostly I

30:35

guess to a point, yes. But

30:37

just as for instance working with

30:39

Fernando Olives would have been fabulous

30:41

but it never happened. It's just

30:43

circumstance sometimes. That's the way it

30:46

is. Well Adrian will finally get

30:48

the chance to work with two-time

30:50

world champion Fernando Alonzo who has

30:52

shown he still has what it

30:54

takes to compete at the very

30:56

highest level with eight podiums since

30:58

he joined Aston in 2023. Race

31:00

win number 33 and title win

31:03

number three. have eluded him so

31:05

far, but who knows what he

31:07

could achieve in a car designed

31:09

by Adrian Newey? Either way, Fernando

31:11

is clearly enjoying his time at

31:13

Aston and excited for this next

31:15

chapter. I would say that now

31:17

in Aston, it's a very happy

31:20

place for me. I have a

31:22

great relationship with Lance, with Lawrence,

31:24

and I have a great admiration

31:26

for Lawrence as well. You know,

31:28

he has passion for racing. You

31:30

can see Lawrence from the outside.

31:32

you know, strong man, you know,

31:34

and a big character and not

31:37

maybe too nice, you know, with

31:39

you, it's intimidating, but it's totally

31:41

the opposite. It's an incredible leader

31:43

for all of us and his

31:45

determination, commitment and passion for racing.

31:47

I never saw in anyone else.

31:49

So there's a soft assigned. There

31:51

is something. You need to know

31:54

him and you need to be

31:56

in the circle of confidence and

31:58

but yeah. He's a great leader

32:00

and he has so much success

32:02

in life, I think, because he's

32:04

a great leader. Well, let's talk

32:06

about Adrian Newey now. Is he

32:08

the final cog in the wheel?

32:11

Do you feel this team now

32:13

has everything it needs to produce,

32:15

at least a championship challenging car?

32:17

I do believe so. I don't

32:19

think that we are missing anything.

32:21

I think for me, the only

32:23

thing that we are missing and

32:25

we are not up to speed,

32:28

is just... Time, you know this

32:30

team is so new if you

32:32

compare to any other tighter contender,

32:34

we are just three, four years

32:36

old, you know, the team. So

32:38

naturally we have to learn through

32:40

mistakes, we have to take some

32:42

lessons from mistakes that we will

32:45

do and this is the only

32:47

thing that is missing or we

32:49

will face in the next few

32:51

years, which at the same time

32:53

is my biggest enemy. because I

32:55

don't have that time, you know,

32:57

to go through that process of

32:59

making mistakes and learn from those.

33:01

But I'm relaxed about that. I

33:04

will do my best. And I

33:06

think with Adrian, now the team

33:08

has all the ingredients, especially the

33:10

wind tunnel. And Adrian were the

33:12

two biggest, or the two things

33:14

that we missed more in the

33:16

last two seasons. Wind tunnel, having

33:18

our own wind tunnel in-house where

33:21

you can produce a part. test

33:23

it, analyze it, maybe come back

33:25

tomorrow. We don't have now. We

33:27

are just using the Mercedes-Win tunnel

33:29

when we are allowed to use

33:31

it. In their time, they tell

33:33

us, and this is what we

33:35

have. And this is going to

33:38

be a game changer for the

33:40

team. And then Adrian, you know,

33:42

is just the man producing the

33:44

fastest cars in the world. Plus,

33:46

I think he will be a

33:48

great leader. you know, for a

33:50

lot of young people we have.

33:52

I know you were chatting to

33:55

him in the back of the

33:57

car at Spar Airport all those

33:59

years ago, but now you've been

34:01

able to chat to Adrian properly.

34:03

Do you find him stimulating? Are

34:05

you quite similar in your approaches

34:07

to the sport? I think I

34:09

don't know well enough, Adrian, to

34:12

know when he's motivated or less

34:14

motivated or in which state of

34:16

mind he is now for the

34:18

project, but... I think listening to

34:20

him and I think the knowledge

34:22

that he has about moderation is

34:24

enough to make a difference on

34:26

any organization and for us. for

34:29

sure it's going to be like

34:31

that. He can see things by

34:33

the first look that it will

34:35

take one month for a group

34:37

of very clever people to spot

34:39

that. And this is priceless in

34:41

Formula One because the race is

34:43

next week. We don't have one

34:46

year to analyze a thing. So

34:48

I think that magic will be

34:50

incredible to witness. So it's not

34:52

a professional adventure that I'm in

34:54

now in Aston Martin. It's a

34:56

personal. adventure that I'm so looking

34:58

forward to have lunch with him

35:00

to sit with him in a

35:03

meeting room or in a race

35:05

weekend in a airport taking a

35:07

flight together talk about the race

35:09

about you know the plans and

35:11

things that will be so much

35:13

so rewarding for me personally as

35:15

well you know to learn from

35:17

a from a man like him

35:20

clearly it's all about 2026 with

35:22

the rule changes but do you

35:24

think he can influence 25 because

35:26

it's going to be so close

35:28

and his sort of holistic view

35:30

of how to go racing and

35:32

how to set up a car

35:34

will help, right? I would like

35:36

to say yes, but if I'm

35:39

honest, I'm 99.9 or 100% he

35:41

cannot do much for 2025. Unfortunately

35:43

for us. But I think he

35:45

will join in March 25. I

35:47

think the focus will be so

35:49

much in 26 because the change

35:51

of regulations. There is a cost

35:53

cap. There are a lot of

35:56

limitations that we cannot... have two

35:58

programs, two separate programs on 25

36:00

campaign and 26. And actually, being

36:02

honest, the 2025 is unlikely that

36:04

we fight for big things. If

36:06

we see now 24, how things

36:08

are going, top four teams, big

36:10

gap, the rest of the teams.

36:13

I don't think that anyone can

36:15

close that gap next winter. So

36:17

I don't think that it changes

36:19

so much for us to be

36:21

fifth in the... championship in 25

36:23

or 6 or 4th and it

36:25

changes a lot if in 26

36:27

we start with the right foot

36:30

so I think I think 2025

36:32

we have to deal ourselves without

36:34

Adrian and I think we are

36:36

more than capable of doing so

36:38

but yeah the biggest goal is

36:40

26 and I think he should

36:42

focus on that. You talk about

36:44

closing the gap. The gap is

36:47

not big and I'm going to

36:49

remind you that you were only

36:51

what two tenths off pole in

36:53

Montreal this year? That's not a

36:55

big gap to close. In qualifying

36:57

it's true that things are extremely

36:59

close. Even in Q1 we see

37:01

sometimes the first guy and the

37:04

16th is only three or four

37:06

tenths. But I think it's just

37:08

a casualty and a mix of

37:10

factors where the top teams, they

37:12

don't push so much in Q1.

37:14

They don't use too many set

37:16

of tires and the guys at

37:18

the back we need to do

37:21

everything we can in Q1 to

37:23

go through. So I think the

37:25

gaps we normally look at. and

37:27

more in the races on Sundays

37:29

and on Sundays we see that

37:31

50% of the times we get

37:33

lap by the leader and this

37:35

is more than one second lap

37:38

so if you want to close

37:40

one second lap in race day

37:42

it's a big big thing well

37:44

the Fernando Alonzo I'm sitting opposite

37:46

seems more energized enthusiastic are you

37:48

going to prolong your career now

37:50

that you've got Adrian and I

37:52

don't want to stress too much

37:54

about that I will lie if

37:57

I tell you that I didn't

37:59

think about it. Obviously I will

38:01

raise 2526. And then in 26,

38:03

I think I will see how

38:05

I feel, how motivated I am,

38:07

and I will discuss it for

38:09

sure with Lawrence and with Adrian,

38:11

eventually, what will be the best

38:14

for the team. I have a

38:16

long-term commitment with Aston. I will

38:18

be working for Aston for many

38:20

years, behind the wheel or in

38:22

a different position. And as I

38:24

said, because... we enter in this

38:26

personal adventure of working with a

38:28

talent like Adrian. I want to

38:31

experience that behind the wheel, yes,

38:33

but I'm not too scared of

38:35

working alongside somehow and seeing Aston

38:37

winning even if I'm not behind

38:39

the wheel because I will feel

38:41

when I'm not ready to give

38:43

something extra behind the wheel to

38:45

the team and maybe someone else

38:48

can do a better job and

38:50

I will be very honest on

38:52

that and I will not be

38:54

disconnected. to the team so I

38:56

will feel if we win eventually

38:58

when I'm not driving I will

39:00

enjoy it a little bit as

39:02

well. They've been on this racing

39:05

journey together since Lance was six

39:07

years old. So when I caught

39:09

up with Lance a few years

39:11

back, I asked him what their

39:13

relationship was really like. I mean,

39:15

I guess I know him pretty

39:17

well. We've been through quite a

39:19

bit together. You could say that.

39:22

No, I mean, I have a

39:24

great relationship with him, away from

39:26

the track, you know, as a

39:28

dad, and as a boss. So,

39:30

um... Is it old having him

39:32

as a boss? No, because he's

39:34

a good boss. You know, he's

39:36

been extremely successful in so many

39:39

of his businesses. You know, in

39:41

the fashion industry and in whatever

39:43

he's picked up, he's been successful

39:45

at and it's been the same

39:47

in Formula One, you know, where

39:49

we were this time last year

39:51

as a team. even before this

39:53

time last year, the beginning of

39:56

last year, and where we are

39:58

now, it goes to show how

40:00

much, you know, how much progression

40:02

we've made as a team. and

40:04

that's thanks to him guiding the

40:06

ship. And it's thanks to the

40:08

500 very talented people that we

40:10

have back at the factory that,

40:13

you know, go to work and

40:15

every day and get the job

40:17

done. Does he put a lot

40:19

of pressure on you? I think

40:21

I put more pressure on him

40:23

when he's watching the race from

40:25

the sidelines. I mean, he's got

40:27

to, he's picked up a few

40:29

gray hairs over the years. Final

40:32

that, Lance Stroll, on for his

40:34

first ever podium. Valtry Botas, 1.3

40:36

seconds behind. Huge pressure for the

40:38

teenager in the Williams. But he

40:40

looks rock solid. Lance Stroll, has

40:42

he been overtaken by Valtry Botas?

40:44

Just on the line, Botas gets

40:46

second! Oh man, he got me.

40:49

Uh, unlucky. Uh, unlucky. P3, P3,

40:51

mega drive. I

40:53

can remember Baku 2017 and seeing

40:55

your dad stood below that podium.

40:57

He was welling up, it was

40:59

a special moment, and he really

41:01

cares about your career, doesn't he?

41:03

That's what came across in that

41:05

moment, and you see it every

41:07

step of the way. Do you

41:09

almost feel like it's the two

41:11

of you doing this together? For

41:13

sure, we've been on this journey

41:15

together from the start, and we're

41:17

still on it. But yeah, I

41:19

mean, no, he doesn't put pressure

41:21

on me, because he supports me

41:23

when it, you know, you know,

41:26

you know, to the hard times

41:28

as much as the good times.

41:30

And, you know, that's, I think

41:32

that that's what family does. You

41:34

know, it's a bigger picture than

41:36

just racing. It's, you know, it's

41:38

a father and son journey. It's

41:40

a family journey. Like I said,

41:42

we've all been on it together.

41:44

And he's had my back through

41:46

the highs and through the lows.

41:48

You know, that says it all.

41:50

Do you share any other hobbies

41:52

away from racing? We got pretty

41:54

competitive on the golf course sometimes.

41:56

I give him a few strokes.

41:58

But uh... Yeah, that's about it.

42:00

What's your handicap? Oof. That's a

42:02

that's a tough question Tom Sundays

42:04

it's a hundred Sundays I play

42:06

I play scratch But on a

42:08

good day on a good day

42:10

I like to think I'm around

42:12

a six-seven. Yeah when I'm when

42:14

I'm playing well that's proper Like

42:16

I said, that's a very loose,

42:18

loose handicapped. Some days it's more

42:20

like a 26-27. So let's keep

42:22

talking about racing. In fact, do

42:25

you and dad share a passion

42:27

for, is it the New York

42:29

Giants and other sports away from

42:31

F1? Yeah, we watched the Giants.

42:33

We actually went to two Super

42:35

Bowls where they both won when

42:37

I was young. I was, I

42:39

was young. I think it was

42:41

2000. 2007 and then 2012 we've

42:43

always been big fans and we

42:45

were both Super Bowls so that's

42:47

pretty cool. Yeah, that is very

42:49

cool. Can we talk a little

42:51

bit about your journey now, a

42:53

journey from living in Canada, coming

42:55

to Europe and then the whole

42:57

racing bug? Can you remember what

42:59

made you want to get into

43:01

a go-kop for the first time?

43:03

How well were you six? I

43:05

was six, exactly, I was six

43:07

the first time I got in

43:09

a go cart. And it all

43:11

started because I was a little

43:13

adrenaline junkie that was up for

43:15

anything. And for my sixth birthday,

43:17

my dad bought me a little

43:19

go cart. And we own a

43:21

track up in Canada, outside of

43:24

Montreal, a little place called Montrombl.

43:26

And there was an F1 race

43:28

there back in the day, wasn't

43:30

there? I wasn't born, but maybe

43:32

you were a Tom. Thank you

43:34

very much, Mr. Stroll. No, you're

43:36

not that old. You're not that

43:38

old. I was far from born

43:40

though, on the other hand. Yeah,

43:42

there's way before my time. So

43:44

my dad bought me a little

43:46

go-kart when I was six, and

43:48

I was always very passionate about.

43:50

racing and stuff. We'd watch Formula

43:52

One together and it was running

43:54

through the family. So probably the

43:56

go-kart of six. We set up

43:58

some cones in the parking lot

44:00

of the race track and I

44:02

just I drove around like all

44:04

summer just around the cones and

44:06

just there's just a little go-kart

44:08

like four-stroke small engine. I was

44:10

six so it was really just

44:12

the beginning but that was the

44:14

beginning of the end. I love

44:16

the fact that your first miles

44:18

in a go-kart were at Montromble.

44:20

And it was like a lightning

44:23

strike, was it, in terms of

44:25

you just loved it and knew

44:27

from that moment on. Wow, that's

44:29

a strong word that I knew

44:31

at six years old that I

44:33

was sitting in four to a

44:35

one, but I definitely got the

44:37

bug. I got the racing bug.

44:39

It grew from there. It grew

44:41

from there, one year at a

44:43

time and ended up here. Well

44:45

at what point did racing change

44:47

from being a hobby to an

44:49

obsession? That was probably when I

44:51

moved to Europe with my family.

44:53

I was 12 and we came

44:55

over to Europe to compete like

44:57

internationally in go-karts because it was

44:59

much more competitive. The first few

45:01

years I raced in Canada as

45:03

competitive, but if you want to

45:05

compete against the best, you have

45:07

to come to Europe and... And

45:09

that's where all the best drivers

45:11

in the world from 12 years

45:13

old onwards compete. So when we

45:15

made that commitment, that's when it

45:17

started to become more serious. But

45:19

it was still, you know, Formula

45:21

One was still kind of in

45:24

the distance. And I wasn't sure

45:26

at 12 years old that I

45:28

was going to be a Formula

45:30

One driver. It was still a

45:32

hobby. It was still fun. I

45:34

mean, you can't take things too

45:36

seriously at that age. When I

45:38

was in Formula 3 and I

45:40

was winning races and yeah I

45:42

signed with Williams that year to

45:44

be their like junior driver I

45:46

knew that there was an opportunity

45:48

to to go to Formula One,

45:50

that was kind of the big

45:52

picture, yeah. But was the main

45:54

reason the family moved from Canada

45:56

to Europe to support your racing

45:58

career? Yes, absolutely. Thanks to my

46:00

mom, my sister, you know, everyone,

46:02

yeah, the whole family, I mean,

46:04

without my sister, willing to go

46:06

to school in Europe and, you

46:08

know, supporting. My dreams I wouldn't

46:10

I wouldn't be where I am

46:12

today without my mom willing to

46:14

do it I wouldn't be where

46:16

I am today and without my

46:18

dad, you know supporting me and

46:20

helping me from day one and

46:23

being my you know by my

46:25

side I wouldn't be here today

46:27

so it's it's it's every for

46:29

sure it's my whole family they've

46:31

all contributed and they've all supported

46:33

me and been there with me

46:35

throughout the journey and it's thanks

46:37

to them that I am where

46:39

I am today. There's the perception

46:41

that you've had an easy ride

46:43

getting here. Now, you're familiar with

46:45

the stick people used to beat

46:47

you, but what is your reaction

46:49

to that? Commitment way beyond just

46:51

Lance Stroll, isn't it? For sure.

46:53

I mean, I love it. I

46:55

fuel off of it. I think,

46:57

um... What, the criticism? For sure.

46:59

You know, if you don't fuel

47:01

off the criticism, then you dwell

47:03

on it, and it eats you

47:05

up inside. So I think I've

47:07

learned to kind of embrace it

47:09

embrace it. use it as like

47:11

energy to prove people wrong and

47:13

I you know I love that

47:15

I you know I think that

47:17

that's that's powerful you know it's

47:19

powerful to use it as fuel

47:22

and but I've always said to

47:24

myself I'll just do my talking

47:26

on the track and it's always

47:28

been like that since day one

47:30

because of where I come from

47:32

and my background you know there's

47:34

there's a lot of people that

47:36

I guess probably hope that I

47:38

don't do so well and they

47:40

hope that I fail and And

47:42

that's okay, you know, but everyone

47:44

is entitled to have their own

47:46

opinion. At the end of the

47:48

day, I just do my talking

47:50

on the track and, you know,

47:52

I won those championships leading up

47:54

to Formula One, Formula Four, Formula

47:56

Three, on the Toyota racing series

47:58

in New Zealand. Yeah, that's a

48:00

decent CV. And in Formula One,

48:02

you know, I've been on the

48:04

podium, I've, you know, I've been

48:06

on, been on pole and, you

48:08

know, I've had many good races.

48:10

My consistency hasn't been the best.

48:12

I'm aware of that. That's something

48:14

that I'm still working on. In

48:16

the last couple of years, I

48:18

definitely think that my consistency can

48:21

be better. And there was a

48:23

year at Williams where I was

48:25

in a pretty bad car, so

48:27

that was a tough year for

48:29

me. What a quartet, an owner

48:31

who puts his money where his

48:33

mouth is, and it's always going

48:35

to be the same, I think.

48:37

I've recognised that, it's when you

48:39

do bad, people start talking bad,

48:41

and when you do well, everyone's

48:43

right there, everyone wants a piece

48:45

of the pie, so it's all

48:47

part of the circus. What a

48:49

quartet! An owner who puts his

48:51

money where his mouth is, an

48:53

incredible designer who will inspire the

48:55

next generation of car for the

48:57

team, and two fast drivers. added

48:59

to that they now have former

49:01

Mercedes engine boss Andy Cowler's team

49:03

principal so the ingredients and experience

49:05

is in place for the team

49:07

to move up the grid over

49:09

the next couple of years links

49:11

to the full versions of my

49:13

chats with Lawrence Adrian Fernando and

49:15

Lance are in the episode description

49:17

on Monday you'll be able to

49:19

listen to F1 Nations preview of

49:22

the 2025 season and then we'll

49:24

be back next Wednesday with the

49:26

first guest of the new series

49:28

of F1 Beyond the Grid. Thanks

49:30

very much for listening. F1 Beyond

49:32

the Grid is produced by Formula

49:34

One and Audio Boom Studios. Until

49:36

next time, keep it flat out.