0:04

Hello and welcome to the Farming Today

0:06

podcast with me Charlotte Smith. In

0:08

this episode the posters you can't find

0:10

and what cow power can mean

0:12

in a woodland. The benefits that cows

0:14

grazing in woodlands can bring they basically

0:16

do it all for free I think

0:18

and on the back of all that

0:20

we managed to keep our farming business

0:22

going and we're producing food as well.

0:25

I think that's really important in these

0:27

sort of communities to try and keep

0:29

our business going and put the money

0:32

back into the community. More

0:34

on that later. First, talk of tariffs

0:36

is giving way to talk about

0:38

a trade deal between the UK and

0:40

the USA. So we thought

0:42

we'd try to work out what

0:44

that might mean for food and

0:46

farming. The government says they're not

0:48

going to negotiate on food standards.

0:50

But given that the US exported

0:52

goods worth $92 billion to the

0:54

UK last year, that's about £69

0:56

billion worth, and food exports made

0:59

up just $3 billion of that,

1:01

how strong a voice can UK food

1:03

and agribusiness have in any negotiation? I

1:06

spoke to Chris Southworth, Secretary General

1:08

of the International Chamber of Commerce. Well,

1:10

first of all, nobody knows what

1:13

the deal is because business have not

1:15

been consulted properly. So it's an

1:17

unknown quantity. What we're looking for

1:19

is a really ambitious deal, with

1:21

or without the tariffs. I think we should be looking

1:23

for that anyway. But the

1:25

big opportunity here is not

1:27

so much on agricultural food,

1:30

where there's big disagreement on food

1:32

standards, but much more on investment,

1:35

data, digitalization

1:37

and improving the trade environment

1:39

between the US, where we

1:41

can work together to transform

1:43

the trading environment globally. Let's

1:46

look at the agricultural side of things

1:48

and things that farmers in particular are

1:50

concerned about. Now the Prime Minister

1:52

and the Chancellor have both reiterated that

1:54

they're not going to negotiate on food

1:56

standards, so no beef where cattle have

1:58

been given growth hormones which are

2:00

banned here, no chickens washed

2:02

in antimicrobial washes. What

2:05

farmers are worried about is that when push comes to

2:07

shove they might give way on that. Is that

2:09

at all likely? We don't know

2:11

is the answer, but what we do

2:13

know is that's a complete showstopper in

2:15

the sense that nobody agrees. We

2:18

all agree with the farmers on that front.

2:20

We all want high food standards. There's a big

2:22

global market for high food standards from the

2:24

UK. We all, I think,

2:26

all recognize that the farmers and farming sector

2:28

is under terrific pressure already. We don't want

2:30

to add more pressure to that. So

2:32

I think the farmers in this case have huge support.

2:35

There are, I suppose, sort of compromises, aren't

2:37

there? Because the USA does produce beef

2:40

which isn't fed hormones. So

2:42

could we, for instance, allow

2:44

that as a way of just making

2:46

headway if we needed to? Yeah,

2:48

I think that's one approach. Quite

2:51

complicated in terms of how you actually

2:53

implement that, whether it's a sort

2:55

of green lane for non -hormone beef

2:57

and chlorinated chicken and a red lane

2:59

for the opposite. But

3:01

that's quite hard to implement when it

3:03

comes to practical trade and exports

3:05

and into ports and customs and all

3:08

the sort of practical processes of trade. You

3:10

were saying earlier that we know

3:13

very little about this trade deal because

3:15

nothing's being consulted on. Would businesses

3:17

expect to have input? Yes,

3:20

but I think so would consumers, so would

3:22

unions and so would others. So,

3:24

you know, we have to stand up for what we

3:26

believe. We can't compromise our

3:28

relationship with the EU, which is

3:30

a much bigger trade market than

3:32

the US. That's our biggest trade

3:34

relationship. There's a real

3:36

opportunity to reset that relationship right

3:38

now. And this I suppose is

3:40

what makes a negotiation with America

3:42

even more complicated because we're also

3:44

looking towards Europe, which has a very

3:46

different approach. Well, you know,

3:48

lots of other countries are in similar situations.

3:50

If you look at the likes of Singapore, They

3:53

have to navigate around the needs

3:55

of the ASEAN markets, but also China

3:57

is the big market on their

3:59

doorstep, but also the US. It's

4:01

not neither or, it's a both and,

4:03

but we just have to find

4:05

that delicate balance between finding areas of agreement

4:07

with the US, but also not closing

4:09

doors on the EU, which is a

4:11

much bigger market, and keeping doors

4:13

open to the rest the world where there

4:16

is a huge advantage and a real demand

4:18

for UK goods and services. Chris

4:20

Southworth from the ICC. When

4:23

James Colston took on the management

4:25

of Arrasague Farm in the West Highlands

4:27

of Scotland more than 30 years

4:29

ago, he never imagined that he'd become

4:31

obsessed by the wonderful world of

4:33

a small endangered butterfly, the checkered skipper.

4:35

But that is what happened. And

4:38

by introducing both trees and what he

4:40

calls cow power to the woodlands

4:42

alongside a flock of sheep, he has

4:44

changed this 10 ,000 acre hill farm,

4:46

something he says wouldn't have been

4:48

possible without support from environmental grant schemes.

4:51

Well as part of our week looking

4:53

at agroforestry, James explained his approach to

4:56

Kathleen Carrower beside a small lock where

4:58

the checkered skippers will soon be putting

5:00

in an appearance. Well

5:03

I've just given the cows

5:06

a little bit of breakfast

5:08

really. They spend the

5:10

whole winter in these woodland blocks

5:12

but it's important to get some

5:14

supplement. There isn't enough food for

5:16

them without that. Come

5:19

on girls, come on. There's

5:21

five adult counts here. There's

5:24

one late arrival where she's had her calf

5:26

a couple of days ago and she's hidden

5:28

it in the woods somewhere. I haven't found

5:30

it yet but she knows where it is

5:32

so that's why she's a bit late to

5:34

the party. What

5:37

effect have the cattle had in this area? When

5:39

we started this grazing job here,

5:41

this bit here was solid birch trees

5:43

because there'd been no grazing in

5:45

it for ten years. and

5:48

it was so thick and you couldn't walk in

5:50

it, you know. And the cattle

5:52

were introduced to break up these clumps

5:54

of birch trees and to allow a bit

5:56

of light in and a bit of

5:58

open space, which is part of the woodland really. So

6:01

now we've got much more of an

6:03

open mosaic of 30 -year -old trees, a

6:06

lot of birch trees, but amongst

6:08

it there's scots pine, there's oak seedlings

6:10

coming, you know. And for this

6:12

type of woodland, that's a success. It's

6:16

wet, it's boggy in places. You

6:18

can see the cows are chewing away

6:20

at these tusks there. And

6:23

they're not getting much to eat,

6:25

but in actual fact, by

6:27

removing all that rough stuff,

6:29

they're allowing these smaller plants a

6:31

chance to get into the light

6:33

and grow. You

6:35

mentioned the biodiversity and the growth in

6:37

birds and insects and I know

6:39

that you're particularly proud of the Czechoskipper

6:41

butterfly which is native here. It's

6:44

a pretty rare butterfly isn't it? They're

6:46

very fussy of the caterpillars and what

6:48

they eat so they only eat millennia grasses.

6:50

The adults themselves are only on the

6:53

wing for about two weeks a year

6:55

and it's vital they have this sort

6:57

of mixture of habitats, food source, flowering

7:00

plants and areas to perch where

7:02

they can defend their territories. It

7:04

requires a quite unique set

7:06

of circumstances to thrive and I

7:08

think the cattle are definitely

7:11

helping provide that. So did you

7:13

think all those years ago that you'd become very fond

7:15

of these checkered skipper butterflies?

7:17

No, no I didn't. I

7:19

didn't at all. But

7:21

there we are. I talk about

7:23

cow power which is really

7:25

the benefits that cows grazing

7:27

in Woodlands can bring. They

7:30

basically do it all for free I think.

7:33

On the back of all that, we managed to

7:35

keep our farm and business going and we're

7:38

producing food as well. I think

7:40

that's really important in these sort

7:42

of communities to try and keep our

7:44

business going and put the money back

7:46

into the community. So

7:48

what's more financially beneficial to

7:50

the farm, the cattle or the

7:52

trees? Well,

7:57

the grounds

8:00

are good, okay, but There's

8:03

a lot of work attached to getting the money. You

8:05

have to do a lot of stuff to get that. I

8:08

like the cows and I

8:10

wouldn't be without them really

8:12

but you know economics is

8:14

economics. If you didn't get those

8:16

grants would you still do this kind of

8:18

work? We probably would

8:20

actually but whether or not the cattle

8:22

would be sustainable without it is a

8:24

difficult point really and we would make

8:27

use of the land we've got so

8:29

I guess we would still be Grazing

8:31

woodlands with cattle, yes we would, but

8:33

the economics of it would be very

8:35

different. James Colston

8:37

there. Now, as regular listeners

8:39

will know, concerns about foot and

8:41

mouth outbreaks in Europe have led

8:43

to restrictions on what visitors and

8:45

returning holidaymakers can bring into the

8:47

UK. Meat and dairy products cannot

8:49

now be brought back from Europe,

8:51

the aim being to prevent an

8:54

outbreak here. That rule was

8:56

introduced on the 12th of April this

8:58

year and covers everything from cured meats

9:00

and cheeses to sandwiches, regardless

9:02

of whether it's packaged or not. But

9:04

over the past couple of weeks you've

9:06

been getting in touch to say that there

9:08

hasn't been much publicity about this and

9:10

that it ports and airports so you're not

9:13

seeing signs or inspections. Peter

9:15

Shorten emailed. My son and

9:17

his family were returning last Friday from

9:19

Germany through the Channel Tunnel and

9:21

had carefully consumed all meat and dairy

9:23

products at risk of serious indigestion

9:25

in the process. They were

9:27

surprised that there was no signing

9:29

warning that such products were not allowed.

9:32

And even more staggered when they realised

9:34

no check had been made on their

9:36

arrival at the British end. Valerie

9:38

Honeyfield also got in touch. She

9:40

says there should be TV adverts about

9:43

the restrictions, as she says posters

9:45

at airports are insufficient. And

9:47

farmer Becky Berry told us... Having just come

9:49

back from France, I was shocked that there

9:51

was zero awareness of the no -meat and

9:53

dairy policy. No one asked about it

9:55

at the border, and whilst there were the

9:57

usual random checks being undertaken, there wasn't any mention

9:59

of the changes. Therefore, can

10:01

we assume that many people will still be bringing

10:04

cheese and meats back into the country? With

10:06

reclet on offer and the cold weather, my

10:08

daughters were sorely tempted to bring a wedge

10:10

back, and we were all mortified that there

10:12

weren't any signs or indication at the border

10:14

that we couldn't have. Anthony Boldock,

10:16

chairman of the Association of Port

10:18

Health Authorities, who also sits on

10:20

the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health's

10:23

advisory panel on Port Health, told

10:25

me whose responsibility it is to

10:27

alert the public. It's a

10:29

matter that the Border Force people do,

10:31

and that's because it's connected to

10:33

customs controls. It used to be a shared

10:35

function. At the present

10:37

time, Port Health Authorities are assisting Border

10:39

Force colleagues, but it really is primarily

10:42

their function at borders. Is it working

10:44

at the moment, do you think? I

10:46

think it's working in some places and

10:48

other places that needs protection. I think

10:50

the whole move away from Europe has

10:52

had an impact in showing where weak

10:54

points are and we certainly need to

10:57

do more in those areas. Now,

10:59

the restrictions came in in mid -April,

11:01

but as we've heard, numerous listeners

11:03

have been in touch with us, saying

11:05

they haven't seen any signs at

11:07

ports. Why not? I'm sure there

11:09

are products there, whether they haven't been

11:11

noticed, whether they're not prominent enough, but there

11:13

certainly is always a space for more

11:15

signage to go up in these kind of

11:17

situations. I would think there's very

11:19

large digital campaign being run as well

11:21

at the moment. That's certainly what happens in

11:23

legally imported goods in the commercial sector. People

11:26

are also saying that they're worried that nobody's

11:28

doing any inspections either. If

11:30

nobody checks, can restrictions

11:33

like this ever work? Well,

11:35

it's always better if we do more,

11:37

checks are happening, but obviously it's something

11:39

that is a limited resource, so

11:42

they always could do better, but checks will

11:44

be happening and people will be profiled for

11:46

certain kinds of checks, but

11:48

it is a limited resource, of course.

11:50

That's why I say there's probably

11:52

a space to use Environmental Health staff

11:54

who've got those skills to work

11:56

alongside Border Force colleagues for the long

11:58

term rather than just for periods of

12:00

time when funding is available. Have

12:03

those environmental health officers though got

12:05

the time because we've talked before

12:07

on this program about the constraints

12:09

on budgets? How much of

12:11

what we're hearing from listeners is

12:13

going to be down to money? Well,

12:15

that's very true and investment doesn't need

12:17

to come and that's where we

12:19

do need more environmental health officers. You're

12:21

quite right. The government does have

12:23

its own struggles with funding, but they

12:25

are certainly a workforce that aren't

12:27

utilised in that space well enough at

12:29

the moment. How confident are you, given

12:31

where we are, that we can keep foot

12:34

and mouth out this time? There's always

12:36

a risk the person imports, but I

12:38

think the focus is right. It's

12:40

about educating the public. I think

12:42

many people don't knowingly break the rules. They

12:44

do it in ignorance. So it's very much

12:46

about that campaign. And to say,

12:48

this is why we're being asked to do these

12:50

things and get responsible behavior than the public.

12:52

It's about coaching people, I think, rather than catching

12:54

them. That's the way we have most effects. And

12:57

what would you say to the listeners we've

12:59

heard from who say they've been in various places

13:01

coming back into the country with no signs, no

13:03

inspections and they're not feeling very confident about

13:05

this? I think that's something of grace

13:07

importance and it really needs to be

13:09

shared with people that are responsible for

13:12

that policy. So that's obviously a matter

13:14

of urgency and that needs to be

13:16

raised with Border Force colleagues. Anthony

13:18

Baldock. We did ask to speak to

13:20

the Border Force but they told us to

13:22

contact the Department for Environment, Food and

13:25

Rural Affairs and in a statement they told

13:27

us, the government will do whatever it takes

13:29

to protect British farmers from foot and mouth.

13:31

We have strict import controls in

13:33

place to manage the risk of

13:35

disease and they added, we are

13:37

working closely with ports, airports and

13:39

travel operators ensuring that awareness of

13:41

the new restrictions is raised including

13:43

via prominent signage. And that's

13:45

it from us. I'm Charlotte Smith. The producer

13:47

is Beatrice Fenton and farming today is a

13:50

BBC Audio Bristol production.