0:03

Welcome to episode two

0:06

hundred and seventy three. of

0:08

FBI retired case

0:10

file review with Jerry Williams.

0:13

I'm a retired agent on a mission

0:16

to show you who the FBI is

0:18

and what the FBI does. Through my

0:20

books, my blog, and my podcast

0:22

case reviews, with former colleagues.

0:25

Today, we get to speak to retired

0:28

agent David Camill who served

0:30

in the FBI for thirty one years.

0:33

In this episode, David

0:35

reviews his investigation of

0:37

two investment fraud cases

0:39

while he was under the added pressure

0:42

of indicting his white collar crimes

0:44

subjects before his impending

0:46

mandatory retirement date. The

0:49

first case we scars was a multimillion

0:52

dollar advanced fee scam

0:54

involving multiple international

0:56

victims living in Germany, Australia,

0:59

and Nigeria, area who were defrauded

1:01

by a retired army colonel

1:04

residing in the Dallas area. The

1:06

second case involves an elderly

1:08

man who invested his life savings

1:11

with an individual who assured

1:13

him the investment would bring

1:15

huge returns. Fortunately,

1:18

a few weeks prior to his retirement,

1:21

David testified in a federal

1:23

grand jury and obtained indictments

1:26

and later guilty pleas from

1:28

both subjects. David and

1:30

I also discussed the different

1:32

investigative methods that he

1:34

used and the different resolutions.

1:37

of both of these investment fraud

1:39

cases. David is the

1:41

author of Reconings of

1:44

an FBI agent. A memoir

1:46

covering his long, diverse, and

1:48

exciting career specializing in

1:51

white collar crimes and counterterrorism

1:54

matters. Now before we get

1:56

to the interview, I wanna let reader team

1:58

members know that my November

1:59

email is out or

2:02

at least it should be up by the time you're

2:04

listening to this episode. And

2:06

then I discuss why I

2:08

love writing and reading crime

2:10

fiction, By the way, my

2:12

crime novels make wonderful

2:15

holiday gifts and hemp. Also

2:17

in my November email, I

2:19

review for FBI accuracy

2:22

the new twenty twenty

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two Liam Nissan Action

2:26

thriller memory.

2:28

If you don't see my email in

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your inbox, you know what to do.

2:32

Check your spam filter and

2:34

promotions tab. Now remember

2:36

when you join my reader team,

2:38

you get access to my FBI

2:41

reading resource, a colorful

2:43

list of nearly eighty books about

2:46

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2:48

the retired FBI agents

2:51

like David Kamill who have been

2:53

guest on this podcast. In

2:56

your podcast app's description of

2:58

this episode, there's a link to

3:00

the show notes as well as

3:02

how you can buy me a coffee,

3:05

join my reader team, and check out

3:07

my crime fiction and non fiction

3:09

books. Thank you for your

3:11

support. Now here's the show.

3:13

I want to welcome

3:15

my guest retired agent,

3:18

David Camill. Hey, David.

3:20

How are you? I'm doing great this

3:22

morning. How are you doing, Jerry? I'm

3:24

doing great. I'm really interested

3:26

in the cases that you're gonna be talking

3:28

about to day because I spent my

3:30

entire career working economic

3:33

crime and one of my

3:35

best cases was an advanced

3:37

fee case Okay. Great.

3:40

because I've worked White collar crime

3:42

twenty five out of my thirty one years

3:44

as an agent. That's good to hear that you'll know

3:46

what I'm talking about. If

3:47

you look around what's on TV and

3:50

what they're talking about on

3:52

podcast, all those entertainment

3:55

shows that surround rods

3:57

and cons are really popular

3:59

now.

4:00

So today, we're gonna spend our

4:02

time talking about one particular

4:05

case, but we'll also touch on

4:07

another case that you are working at the

4:09

same time. just to kind of

4:11

contrast and compare the outcomes.

4:14

But I guess maybe we should tell

4:16

everybody what an advanced fee

4:19

scheme is before you even

4:21

start with the case reviews. I didn't

4:23

know what I had when I first looked at

4:25

both of these cases, but it appeared

4:27

that I was gonna have to work it as a wire fraud

4:29

case. Those are the basics of White

4:31

collar crime. It's any scheme to

4:33

defraud by using the wire.

4:35

Transfer of funds from bank to bank

4:37

out of state. Nowadays, technology,

4:40

it can include anything. Skype,

4:42

it's anything over the computer that's

4:44

going across state lines. So that's

4:46

really opened up quite a bit with the

4:48

wire fraud case that I'm about to

4:50

describe, they were both wire fraud cases.

4:53

You have a book, and the

4:55

name of your book is reckoning

4:57

of an FBI agent, and it is

4:59

stuffed full of so many

5:01

cases that you've worked some

5:03

of the incidents as a member

5:05

of the SWAT team that you covered The

5:08

reason I think both of us

5:10

wanted to do these cases

5:12

is because they occurred at

5:14

the very end of your career.

5:16

As a matter of fact, there was like a ticking

5:18

time bomb where you may

5:20

have had to retire without

5:22

even being able to complete these, but

5:24

you somehow, we're able

5:26

to get them both done, and white

5:28

collar crime cases can be some of the

5:30

most complex cases that the FBI

5:33

work. and they take lots of time,

5:35

but you were able to get both of these done

5:37

right at the very end of your career,

5:38

which makes it really I think

5:40

even more interesting. Yes. You're exactly

5:43

correct on that. Jerry, I know we're gonna get started

5:45

in a second, but I have to say,

5:47

I wanna thank you for inviting me

5:49

on your podcast. I truly feel

5:51

honored. I really do. The honor

5:53

is mine. I am just

5:55

thrilled that so many

5:57

retired agents are

5:59

willing to share part

6:01

of their FBI story with the

6:03

public. I think, especially in

6:05

these times, having direct

6:08

communication with the FBI

6:10

allows people to, as my motto

6:13

goes, as my mission goes, to

6:15

understand who the FBI

6:17

is and what the FBI does.

6:19

So thank you. Where do you want to start?

6:22

I will start with this main case

6:24

that was fraud involving the

6:27

wind turbines. My

6:27

mandatory retirement was set

6:30

for August twenty eighteen. The case

6:32

I will discuss with you I opened in

6:34

July twenty seventeen. In

6:36

twenty eighteen, I had also opened

6:38

another case I felt I needed

6:40

more time to investigate these

6:42

two cases. Plus, of course,

6:44

I had other investigations going

6:46

on. So in twenty eighteen,

6:48

before my mandatory retirement, I requested

6:51

and received a one year extension on

6:53

my retirement based on these two

6:55

cases. So now the date of my mandatory

6:57

retirement was set for August twenty nineteen,

7:00

which meant my clock was beginning to tick.

7:02

In July twenty seventeen, I

7:04

was assigned to the Frisco resident

7:06

agency RA, so I'll be

7:08

calling it the Frisco RA of the

7:10

Dallas division. My supervisory

7:12

special agent which is SSA,

7:15

I'll be referring to it, was Brandon

7:17

Lipton. He asked me to look at this unusual

7:20

potential case Lifton was

7:22

a good SSA to work with. He

7:24

backed me on anything I needed to pursue

7:26

cases without throwing any of the

7:28

red tape out there like I've had in the past

7:30

He knew that I was a successful white collar

7:33

prime agent in my extensive experience

7:35

with white collar cases. He asked me to look

7:37

at this case I was a senior agent

7:39

on the squad and one of the most senior in

7:41

the Dallas division. In July twenty

7:43

seventeen, in my mandatory retirement

7:45

set for twenty eighteen, but as

7:47

I mentioned, I had it extended, this

7:49

case would have become too complex

7:51

if it became difficult to finish

7:53

the case by twenty eighteen. I needed

7:55

to have the case prepared for indictment

7:57

and conviction by then. These complex

7:59

white collar con cases can take

8:01

up to three or four years from the opening

8:04

date to the conviction, but I was intrigued.

8:06

The Frisco RA received an email

8:08

from my Cambura Australia Leggett

8:11

office. regarding an alleged

8:13

fraud case that was in the Frisco

8:15

RA territory. Strange because it

8:17

came from one of our Liggett offices, as I

8:19

mentioned Australia. Victims

8:21

were two German citizens with one

8:23

temporarily residing in Australia,

8:25

Halka, Von Sauer, and

8:28

across Rachel. The subject

8:30

was a seventy six year old retired American

8:33

Army colonel, Patrick Hamilton.

8:35

Hamilton is residing in the Priscope

8:37

territory which is in the eastern

8:39

district of Texas. The two Germans were

8:41

allegedly defrotered out of two million

8:43

dollars by Hamilton in a wind

8:45

turbine investment scheme. This occurred

8:47

in Germany. They provided very general

8:49

information to the league yet, but later after I

8:51

interviewed the victims, I learned that they had

8:53

lost over fifteen million dollars in

8:55

this scam. Both were very

8:57

experienced businessmen working in the

8:59

wind turbine industry. The problem

9:01

for me was the fact that I could not make

9:03

contact with either one of these German

9:05

citizens due to the fact that they were foreign

9:07

nationals residing outside the United

9:09

States, and I needed approval from

9:11

FBI headquarters, the German

9:13

government, Arleigh Gap office that would be

9:15

involved in Germany. So one was

9:17

residing in Germany and one was

9:19

Australia. The process can be

9:21

time consuming which it was.

9:23

But basic information that I received from

9:25

the Leggate office, which they received from these

9:27

two German citizens, in September

9:29

twenty fourteen, The two Germans in

9:31

Hamilton entered into a

9:33

partnership with a company called Wynn

9:35

Energy. The three of them created

9:37

this partnership. It was a German company. It

9:39

was to build and operate large wind

9:41

turbines in Germany. The Germans needed

9:43

over one point five billion dollars

9:45

to fund this operation. Hamilton

9:47

owns several companies. The parent

9:49

company was worldwide project, but

9:51

they were required to provide him with

9:53

two million dollars in seed money which

9:55

would be held in an escrow account and

9:58

return with a twenty percent interest

9:59

no later than ninety days. This

10:02

escrow account is important. It's gonna come

10:04

up in my evidence. plus they would receive

10:06

the initial funding to get the one point

10:08

billion dollar project off the ground.

10:10

Hamilton produced a contract for the two

10:12

million dollars seed money one of the

10:14

Germans signed the contract in September

10:16

twenty fourteen. The Germans wire

10:18

transferred two million dollars from their

10:20

German bank account to Hamilton's American

10:22

bank account, which is in the Frisco

10:24

territory. The Germans were in

10:26

constant contact with Hamilton, but

10:28

after the ninety day period came and

10:30

spired. Hamilton always had excuses why

10:32

the two million dollars plus the interest had not

10:34

be returned. And in March twenty

10:36

fifteen, The Germans in

10:38

Hamilton went ahead and signed a

10:40

one point billion dollar funding

10:42

agreement with Hamilton slash

10:44

worldwide projects which was the name

10:46

of Hamilton's company. So Hamilton

10:48

and basically worldwide projects

10:50

would fund this adventure.

10:53

Around the time the funding loan agreement was

10:55

signed, Hamilton told the Germans that the

10:57

two million dollars in seed money

10:59

was invested with a third

11:01

party named Larry Kramer,

11:03

who resided in McKinney, Texas, which is

11:05

a suburb outside of Dallas, and also

11:07

resided in

11:08

Hong Kong. The Germans were shocked and

11:10

upset that the escrow money was not

11:12

held agreed, but instead invested with

11:14

a third party. And this information I'm gonna

11:16

go over in detail, I'm just still kinda giving

11:18

you a background. With this very basic

11:21

information, I received from the Leggett

11:23

office, I knew I needed to interview the

11:25

victims, but I knew I needed approval.

11:27

Since I was unable to interview the victims,

11:29

I had only two leads I could pursue.

11:31

attempt to interview Cramer at a

11:33

McKinney, Texas address, which

11:35

Hamilton had provided to the Germans,

11:37

and two, attempt to interview Hamilton.

11:39

I grabbed senior agent, s a Jasper,

11:42

who was also an experienced white

11:44

collar crime agent on the squad. I

11:46

also knew him from several years

11:48

together on the Dallas the guy's SWAT team. I

11:50

respected him as a white collar crime

11:52

case agent, also as a SWAT team

11:54

member. I researched the address

11:56

I had for Cramer, and I learned that it came back to a

11:58

cheap motel. So I assumed

11:59

Cramer would not be

12:00

residing at this motel based

12:03

only a large amount of money that was involved in

12:05

this matter. ended up interviewing the

12:07

hotel manager and was told that Kramer

12:09

at some point in time lived at the

12:11

motel, but the manager had no

12:13

forwarding address for Kramer. Now the only

12:15

lead left was to interview Hamilton, which

12:17

was totally against the method or

12:19

strategy I used to conduct my

12:21

investigations. In my case is I would only

12:23

interview a subject or a potential subject

12:25

in a cold call or unannounced

12:27

visit. And only when I have enough

12:29

evidence to not only indict the subject,

12:31

but to convict. Can you

12:33

explain why? It's not much of a

12:35

secret, but when you show up,

12:37

cold call or unannounced at a

12:39

subject's location, you kinda

12:41

have them in a corner. They wanna

12:43

speak. They don't know how much information you

12:45

have. Most importantly, they

12:47

don't have an attorney if they don't know

12:49

you're after. which gives me an opportunity

12:52

to speak to them. That

12:53

always gives me the edge.

12:55

Always. The element of surprise.

12:58

Yes. And it's worked countless times

13:00

thirty one years in my career. I'm sure a lot

13:02

of agents use this, but it's been

13:04

very successful for me

13:06

Even if the subject does not want to talk

13:08

to me and starts thinking about it, then

13:10

I can present to them what they have

13:12

and tell them that they're guaranteed to be

13:14

indicted but we can work a deal right here that

13:16

I can pass on to the US attorney's office,

13:18

the prosecutor, and tell them that you

13:20

want to plead guilty And of

13:22

course, whatever sentencing they will get, we will

13:24

tell the judge that he cooperated,

13:26

admitted to everything, let's cut

13:28

him a deal. It's really good for everybody.

13:31

good for me. I don't have to go to trial. It's

13:33

good for the prosecutor. And it's also

13:35

good for the subject. After

13:37

discussing this with my SSA, I had no

13:39

other avenue to pursue. since I could

13:41

not interview the victims without the

13:43

approvals. So if I was able to

13:45

interview Hamilton, I had no

13:47

evidence against him and most importantly, I

13:49

had no leverage. A short time later I grabbed

13:51

s a Jasper, and without contacting

13:53

Hamilton, we headed to Hamilton's home

13:55

located in a Dallas suburb. We

13:58

arrived, knocked on the door, a lady appeared,

13:59

and as standard FBI policy,

14:02

we produced our credentials and

14:04

asked to speak with Hamilton. She told us she

14:06

was the wife and he was out of the

14:08

country on business, but would be flying

14:10

back today. Surprisingly, she

14:12

didn't ask us any questions pertaining to

14:14

our visit. I handed her my

14:16

business card

14:16

and asked her to have

14:17

Hamilton call me. When Jasper and

14:20

I returned to the car, we both turned to

14:22

each other and thought it was strange that she

14:24

didn't ask any questions as to

14:26

why the FBI wanted to speak to her

14:28

husband, why we were showing up at her home.

14:30

In my experience and I know grains, when you show

14:32

up at someone's home and you're looking for someone

14:34

else, everybody wants to know what the FBI is

14:36

doing there. But she didn't. So

14:38

we left as we were driving back to

14:40

the Frisco RA, I called the

14:42

office and I had one of our well

14:44

respected support employees, Ron

14:46

Hamilton's name in our database.

14:48

which would show if Hamilton traveled overseas.

14:50

I have to say this important employee

14:52

has always been very helpful and

14:55

quickly took care of our requests

14:57

She was the go to person for anything

14:59

such as this. She called me back

15:01

shortly and said, yes, he was out of a

15:03

country with an arrival back to Dallas

15:05

today. Right after I hung up from her, I received a call

15:07

from Hamilton, who confirmed that

15:09

he had just returned from being out of the country,

15:11

and we agreed the meeting the next morning.

15:13

The next morning we arrived at the house, the

15:16

home was in no way extravagant, and it

15:18

was built somewhere around the nineteen

15:20

seventies. He invited us inside and was

15:22

very cordial. we could tell he was getting up

15:24

there in age and he was a bit feeble.

15:26

I explained the purpose of our

15:28

visit and I told him what we had heard

15:30

What I'm gonna go through next is just what

15:32

Hamilton had told us. Hamilton explained

15:34

that he owns a company called worldwide

15:36

projects, which includes four other

15:38

companies with offices all over the

15:40

world and over twenty overseas

15:42

employees. And he has been in business for

15:44

several years funding humanitarian projects

15:47

but only in foreign countries.

15:49

And that's another important little

15:51

sentence that are only in foreign countries.

15:53

These projects included housing,

15:55

hospitals, roads such as

15:57

this. Hamilton met with Von

15:59

Sauer by chance in Asia about

16:01

ten years ago and they began discussing

16:03

business partnering to create a

16:05

wind turbine business in Germany.

16:07

Hamilton's company would initially fund

16:09

five hundred million dollars but he

16:11

required a two million dollars security

16:13

deposit. Hamilton von Sauer and

16:15

Weichl signed a contract for the two

16:17

million dollars which was wired to

16:19

Hamilton from Germany. He denied that

16:21

this was to be held in escrow. Hamilton

16:24

also had a contract with

16:26

Kramer, who I

16:27

mentioned earlier, in Hong Kong,

16:29

where Kramer would

16:30

invest a two million dollars in

16:32

a currency change and return

16:34

seventy five to one hundred million

16:36

dollars to Hamilton within a hundred

16:38

days. This money would be used to

16:40

fund the project. And this sounds pretty

16:42

far fetched or I would say very

16:44

far fetched. So of course, it

16:46

increased our interest in the case,

16:48

myself and S. A. Jasper, I had to

16:50

understand how does that even work?

16:52

Well, my first one I was

16:55

interviewing is like, gosh, I could gather some

16:57

money together, will you invest it for

16:59

me? Yeah. I mean, it sounds

17:01

so good and as the

17:03

saying goes, so good that it can't

17:05

be true. Yeah. You know, two million dollars

17:07

you're gonna turn it into seventy five to

17:09

a hundred in a hundred days. But when I entered this

17:11

interview, I had no leverage. I

17:13

had no facts. I had to keep

17:15

going with what he said. I

17:17

asked Hamilton how well he knew

17:19

Cramer and had

17:19

he ever invested with Cramer. He

17:21

had never met Cramer in person, but

17:23

around ten years ago, he invested

17:25

two to five million dollars with

17:27

Cramer to invest in a similar currency

17:30

exchange. And after a few months, Cramer

17:32

did return seventy five million dollars

17:34

to Hamilton. I asked for documentation for

17:37

this transaction or any type of

17:39

proof that he could show me. he

17:41

actually got up, went to the back, heard

17:43

him stern around back, or he came back and said

17:45

he couldn't find it. Surprise.

17:47

Yeah. Surprise. But as you know in these

17:49

interviews, when a subject gets up and leaves

17:51

a room, especially on a surprise interview.

17:53

You're a little antsy. I'm gonna have to say

17:55

our hand is sitting down there by our weapon. You don't

17:57

know what they're gonna come out with. But he just came back and

17:59

said, no, I couldn't find the information. And he said, but

18:02

this actually occurred. And I said,

18:04

so what did you do with the seventy five million

18:06

dollars? And he said he invested it with

18:08

his companies? Amelton had provided us with

18:10

these contracts that he had. So again, I

18:12

had no leverage. I couldn't say no,

18:14

you're wrong. I'm just taking notes. Hamilton

18:16

told us that he was in daily contact

18:18

with Kramer through a third party named

18:20

Bobby Fletcher located

18:22

in New Hampshire. Since I had no leverage, we ended

18:24

the interview, but both myself and

18:27

S. A. Jasper knew there was a case

18:29

here and I would be opening a full

18:31

investigation based on this

18:33

interview. I contacted my favorite

18:34

AUSA in the eastern

18:36

district, Tim Garrett, and explained the

18:38

case, and he agreed to prosecute

18:41

if the evidence was there. At

18:43

the time, I was investigating other

18:45

white collar complex cases and one,

18:47

I wanted to indict and convict before

18:50

I retired. In another case, I

18:52

was waiting on Swiss bank records

18:54

pertaining to my subject. And if you know,

18:56

it is very difficult to obtain

18:58

Swiss bank records. The process is time consuming

19:00

and involving both governments. I began

19:02

subpoenaed in Hamilton and Kramer's bank

19:04

accounts involved in these transactions.

19:07

the time, I didn't know the case was

19:09

going to turn into a monster and

19:11

lead me to travel to Frankfurt, Germany,

19:13

New Hampshire, Miami, Washington,

19:16

DC, and LA, chasing mostly shadows.

19:18

First, I needed to speak to the victims, the

19:20

Germans. But as I said, I needed to

19:22

obtain the approvals I

19:24

got the ball rolling with help of my SSA. We

19:26

made contact with FBI headquarters,

19:29

Leggett, Cambra, and Leggett, Berlin,

19:31

and the sub office Franklin, in

19:33

Germany, to approve and arrange an interview in

19:36

Frankfurt. Also, the funding for travel and

19:38

overseas operation, which

19:40

included The FBI tracking me, all

19:42

this needed to get done. It's just basically a

19:44

bunch of red tape, but I understood it. I

19:46

needed to cross my keys and dot my eyes

19:48

I learned that Von Sauer spoke good English

19:51

but not Rachel. A side note,

19:53

during this time period, I opened another

19:55

case, whereas the victim was located

19:57

in London. This case involved the Swiss bank

19:59

records that I mentioned. So I also needed

20:01

approval from FBI headquarters in our

20:03

Leggate London office and the

20:05

UK government to interview the victim in

20:07

London. I was getting approvals to

20:09

travel to both London and Frankfurt, which

20:11

made sense, so I was

20:13

basically killing two birds with one stone. We

20:15

were able to make this happen. And since

20:17

FBI headquarters was interested in

20:19

these cases, they funded the travel.

20:21

and also funded a second agent, which I

20:24

didn't expect, nor that I thought was

20:26

necessary. But SSA, Lipkin

20:28

suggested I take another agent and,

20:30

of course, I asked SA Jasper if you

20:32

wanted to travel to London and Frankfurt

20:34

to assist me in these interviews. S. A.

20:36

Jasper was all in, of course. After weeks

20:38

of calls and paperwork, We received

20:40

approvals for travel and contact with the

20:43

Germans and also the victim in

20:45

London on the other case. I made

20:47

contact for the first time with Von

20:49

Sauer and set up a meeting in an

20:51

undisclosed US controlled

20:53

location in Frankfurt with Von

20:55

Sauer and Weichl, and of course,

20:57

SA Jasper was with me. S. A. Jasper and I flew to

20:59

London first, conducted our interview for

21:01

the other case, and then the next day we traveled

21:03

to Frankfurt and Met Bon Sauer

21:06

and Rachel for a long one day interview.

21:08

Von Sauer answered most of our questions

21:10

and translated for Rachel when

21:13

he spoke. Bonsara and Rachel were very successful

21:15

and wealthy, well respected businessmen

21:17

within the wind turbine industry.

21:19

Bonsara told the city that Hamilton

21:22

ten years prior in Asia.

21:24

Hamilton told the two Germans that he

21:26

started a company worldwide

21:28

projects with funding from five

21:30

wealthy Dallas families. my investigation

21:33

determined that this was not true. Hamilton

21:35

talked to the Germans about being a

21:37

retired colonel in the United States.

21:39

So as the Germans are hearing this, they're feeling comfortable, hey,

21:41

this is a retired American colonel,

21:43

you know. He's got to have some credibility.

21:45

Hamilton provided Von Sauer and

21:48

Rachel a presentation document for worldwide

21:50

projects, which again was Hamilton's

21:52

company. This also impressed the Germans.

21:54

Von Sauer gave me a copy of

21:56

this document which listed worldwide

21:58

projects, the corporate

21:59

organizational structure with offices

22:02

located in several US and

22:04

world locations. I have ask

22:06

you, you're looking at this presentation.

22:08

Are you impressed? Do you think, wow,

22:10

this is a company that can

22:13

loan out millions of dollars

22:15

just based on that presentation. Yes

22:17

and no. Only if that

22:19

document presentation is true

22:21

But what truly threw me off and you

22:23

mentioned it earlier is when he told me he

22:25

made this investment with Kramer.

22:28

First of all, we've heard all kinds of scams

22:30

with currency exchanges. So when you can

22:32

tell me that you can invest two million

22:34

dollars and get a return of seventy five

22:36

million, of course, my ears are perked up. So

22:38

now I'm wondering this whole thing is bogus. To

22:40

kinda answer your question, I'm figuring this

22:42

is all a scam at this point in time.

22:44

As we go through it, I'll be able to

22:47

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23:19

This

23:19

presentation document showed worldwide funding

23:22

construction for apartments hospitals,

23:25

refineries, mines, airports, food and

23:27

power plants, stadiums, other

23:29

impressive construction projects. But

23:32

remember, Hamilton said, these projects

23:34

were for humanitarian projects

23:36

located only in foreign countries. So

23:38

we didn't do anything in the United States. All

23:40

of this impressed the two Germans. Hamilton

23:42

seemed confident, and of course, the fact that he

23:44

was retired army colonel. Von Sauer,

23:47

and Rachel conducted very little

23:49

due diligence on Hamilton are

23:51

worldwide projects, which as we kinda

23:53

were talking about was a huge

23:55

mistake. But again, all of this impressed him.

23:57

Trusting, I guess you could call it,

23:59

Bon Sauer also produced a copy of the seed money

24:01

contract, which stated that the two million dollars

24:03

seed money would stay in an escrow account

24:05

and would be returned with

24:07

eighty thousand dollars and interest in

24:09

ninety days, plus the funding for the

24:12

wind turbines project would begin.

24:14

Bon Sauer and wait till later

24:16

provide other documentation from

24:18

Hamilton stating that the money was still in escrow,

24:20

which was important, and we'll get to that in a

24:22

minute. In the beginning, Hamilton threw his

24:24

companies, but from the wind turbine project

24:27

two fifty six million

24:29

dollars. I know I mentioned one point five

24:31

billion, but that's what it grew to. In

24:33

September twenty fourteen, the Germans did

24:35

in fact Wire transfer of the two million

24:37

dollars to Hamilton, just prior

24:39

to WageWorks had received a

24:41

loan of over one point nine

24:43

million dollars from his pension account

24:45

in Germany that required the money

24:47

to be returned at a certain date

24:49

or he would be required to

24:51

pay penalties.

24:51

I had to stop you because I

24:53

think for

24:54

everyone we know how this happens

24:56

because we work these cases during

24:58

our careers. But for

25:00

those listening I know they're

25:03

thinking it was that easy. He gave them a

25:05

presentation. He told them a bunch of

25:07

lies, and they're gonna send him

25:09

two million dollars. Is

25:11

there no due diligence? Nothing

25:13

else that they occurred? I know it

25:15

sounds like victim blaming, and I hate

25:17

to make it sound that way, but I'm

25:20

hoping that you can let people

25:22

know why somebody

25:24

would just ship this off

25:26

based on Hamilton's word.

25:28

that this is what he was gonna do and

25:30

that their funds would be an escrow.

25:33

How does a fraud at this magnitude

25:35

happen? And an excellent question,

25:37

but I'm gonna backpedal and

25:39

say, just think if you and I were

25:41

never FBI agents and experience white

25:44

collar crime cases, I've got all

25:46

kinds of bizarre cases that I've mentioned in my

25:48

book, and I'm sure agents that work white

25:50

collar crime can discuss the same but

25:52

you and I have the experience to know what to look

25:54

for. I'm not going to say that we're any

25:56

smarter, but we're not as trusting.

25:58

We've seen

25:59

the scams There's all kinds of new scams these days.

26:02

The whole time I'm interviewing these Germans,

26:04

I'm like, stop. What are you thinking?

26:06

But I'm also putting myself in

26:08

their shoes. They're not FBI agents.

26:10

They're not law enforcement that work these

26:12

type of cases. You can run across someone

26:14

like Hamilton that's very impressive

26:16

and they fell for it. I never became an agent what

26:18

I have fallen for, maybe I

26:20

don't know. I guess that's true. And

26:22

I guess also one of the things

26:24

I'm forgetting from

26:26

my time working these cases

26:28

is the desperation. These

26:30

people have goals and dreams

26:32

of building a business

26:35

and they're desperate for money. They're looking

26:37

for someone to help

26:39

fund their dreams. And

26:41

here's somebody who says they can do

26:44

it. Yes. Of course, this was the wind

26:46

turbine investment. After Rachel

26:48

went and pulled up one point nine million

26:50

dollars out of his pension account,

26:53

This came back and haunted him and

26:55

financially destroyed it because it

26:57

was basically the domino effect. They

26:59

kept believing in Hamilton, Each day Hamilton told the

27:01

Germans that the funding would be here any

27:03

day and the seed money would be

27:05

returned. They literally spoke

27:08

mainly by Skype or email

27:11

constantly, almost daily. So the Germans

27:13

were getting the ball rolling, and they were

27:15

making context with various wind turbine

27:17

companies for parts and

27:19

related material and to purchase land to

27:21

set up these turbines. They begin

27:23

the process in Germany, while

27:25

Hamilton just hung out here in the Dallas

27:27

area. And then they began signing

27:29

purchase agreement contracts with these

27:31

companies, which was making things

27:33

worse. They only did this after Hamilton assured them

27:35

that the funding would come through the

27:37

seed money, plus the interest,

27:39

plus the actual funding for

27:42

the project. Hemochen told the Germans to

27:44

sign the contracts when they questioned it.

27:46

So they did. They signed the contracts with the

27:48

wind turbine companies. And at the

27:50

time, Von Saur and Rachel did

27:52

not know that they were putting

27:54

themselves out on a limb and that's what they were doing

27:56

because they're signing these contracts, Hamilton's

27:58

not These contracts required

28:00

attorneys and accounting

28:02

firms to draft the contracts, which cost

28:04

them over two hundred and fifty thousand

28:06

dollars just to get that done. So now

28:08

they're getting in further in-depth. After

28:10

all three met in Germany,

28:12

Hamilton did fly over to Germany, they

28:14

agreed to just buy these companies. which

28:16

made the funding jump to one point

28:18

five billion dollars. So they're still

28:20

buying into this. They just thought, well, I buy

28:22

the parts when we can buy the company. So they

28:24

signed contracts to buy these contracts. And

28:26

I say, they, it was the Germans.

28:28

Hamilton didn't sign any of these contracts. As

28:30

they're telling me this, I'm

28:32

silently thinking what you're thinking

28:34

is stop. Just

28:36

stop. Quit, but they kept doing this

28:38

and kept digging themselves into a hole. early

28:41

twenty fifteen, Germans were becoming very

28:43

concerned since they had not received their

28:45

money, but Hamilton kept convincing them that

28:47

Bonnie was on the way. and used all

28:49

kinds of excuses. Now, I cannot tell you how

28:51

many excuses I read on the Skype that he had

28:54

said to him, but some of them were there's New

28:56

York lawyers involved in

28:58

this that holding it up. Customs, US Customs

29:00

is holding it up. A court in New

29:02

York or attorneys in

29:04

other locations But

29:06

each contact Hamilton made, they were

29:08

through email or Skype, which, here's

29:10

your wire fraud, hundreds and hundreds of

29:12

them. So the excuses were endless. By

29:14

March twenty fifteen, the concern

29:16

with the two Germans was panic. When

29:18

Hamilton informed the Germans that the

29:20

money was not in escrow, but in fact, he

29:22

had invested their two million dollars

29:24

with Kramer. In a Chinese money

29:26

exchange, and Kramer was located

29:28

in Hong Kong. the Germans had never heard of

29:30

Kramer until then, nor had they

29:32

approved this or would they have approved

29:34

this transaction. Their only hope was

29:36

that the funding would truly come through

29:38

or recover their current

29:40

losses. They had nothing else to lose. They were just

29:42

hoping for hope. And again, these

29:44

were well-to-do wealthy

29:46

German businessmen that were very experienced

29:49

and well known in the wind turbine

29:51

industry in Germany. So Hamilton said

29:53

that he had no direct contact with

29:55

Cramer, and he was going through Cramer's attorney

29:57

in New Hampshire, Bobby Fletcher, which

29:59

was the same name that I had received

30:02

from Hamilton. So this is the same name that

30:04

Von Sauer has given me. At the time of

30:06

the interview, Rachel's losses had

30:08

already exceeded five point five

30:10

million dollars. which included the attorney

30:12

and accounting firm fees, and he was

30:14

being sued now by the wind turbine

30:16

companies in Germany for not following

30:18

through on signing the purchase agreement

30:20

contracts. Before I enter the interview

30:22

with Von Sauer and Rachel

30:24

and Frankfort, I briefly explained to

30:26

them the American Justice System and the role

30:28

of the FBI. knowing that they were not

30:30

familiar with the US legal system. I included

30:33

the indictment, trial, conviction,

30:35

sentencing process, the judge, which

30:37

may include restitution in their case if he's convicted.

30:40

After this, which was strange, Von

30:42

Sauer asked me a question that I'd never

30:44

heard or I hardly ever heard and

30:46

my thirty plus years as an agent. The question

30:48

was appropriate. He asked if Hamilton

30:50

goes to prison, how can he work to pay

30:53

us back? I explained well, that's not the role

30:55

of the FBI, but if Hamilton is

30:57

convicted to judge with most likely

30:59

order restitution, He had a pretty

31:01

good thought process there. After I returned from Frankfurt,

31:03

I'll receive the results of the Grand

31:05

jury's penis for the Hamilton and Kramer

31:07

bank account records. I learned that

31:09

when the Germans wired the two million dollars to

31:12

Hamilton in September twenty

31:14

fourteen, Hamilton immediately wired,

31:16

transferred these funds to Cramer

31:18

and Cramer immediately wire transferred

31:20

one million dollars to

31:22

various entities in China and

31:24

one million to a Michael Morgan

31:27

located in the LA area. I conducted

31:29

an FBI database search for Morgan

31:31

and was taken back to learn that

31:33

our

31:33

Portland Morgan

31:34

FBI office had received a

31:37

conviction in a case against Morgan in

31:39

a very similar scam

31:41

with Kramer in nineteen ninety

31:43

nine. He was sent to prison. In

31:45

this case, Morgan was working with

31:47

Kramer, as I mentioned. And at this point, I

31:49

knew the Germans investment was long

31:51

gone, but I didn't want to give them the

31:53

details until later. Now I began tracking

31:55

Fletcher down in New Hampshire,

31:57

and I thought I had a good address for him.

31:59

Let me ask you a

31:59

question. It's my understanding what you're

32:02

telling us is that

32:04

hamilton scammed the Germans

32:06

and Cramer scammed

32:08

the Hamilton. Yes. And that comes up

32:10

with Hamilton's attorney, the US attorney. He

32:12

brought that up and our meeting. Now, this

32:14

is fascinating. Yeah. Prior

32:16

to traveling to New Hampshire, I

32:19

contacted our Hong Kong FBI liaison

32:21

spoke to an agent about my case, and I was trying

32:23

to locate Kramer who was residing

32:25

in Hong Kong. The agent incorrectly

32:28

assured me that if I had an address

32:30

for he could go out and interview

32:32

Kramer unless I miss something

32:34

because I know something about Liggett

32:36

offices. I knew that a Liggett office cannot

32:38

just send an agent or allow an agent

32:40

to go out conduct an interview such as

32:42

this. And I kept this information in my

32:44

pocket. It comes up later. In

32:46

January twenty eighteen, I contacted the

32:48

local FBI office, which covered

32:50

New Hampshire and with a lead,

32:52

I arranged for a local agent to assist

32:54

me with the interview or at

32:56

least attempted interview of

32:58

Fletcher. The agent picked me up the airport. We

33:00

traveled to the address I had for Fletcher.

33:02

My plan, which is normally my

33:04

plan, is to sit on the subject's and

33:07

put it on surveillance before we approached. We

33:09

set up about two hundred yards away

33:11

and observed a car in the driveway, but the way

33:13

it was angled, I couldn't get a license

33:16

plate number. But after forty five

33:18

minutes, a woman came out of the house walking

33:20

a dog and she walked right past

33:22

us and later turned around and walked

33:24

back towards the I had the agent pull up to

33:26

the home as she began walking up

33:28

the driveway. And he followed

33:30

my lead when I jumped out of the

33:32

car. We pulled our credentials out.

33:34

informed the lady that we were FBI and we were here

33:36

to speak to Fletcher. She told

33:38

us that Fletcher was her father and

33:40

she motioned for us to follow

33:43

her. not sure she meant follow her inside. We

33:45

began following her to the house and she

33:47

did not tell us to wait, so I followed

33:49

her inside and then up

33:52

these stairs. And she turned around and looked at

33:54

us and then continued on. And when we

33:56

got to the top of the stairs, she said, dad,

33:58

these people are here to speak to you.

34:00

We identified ourselves, and yes,

34:02

of course, he was shocked, but he asked

34:04

us to sit down. Fletcher acknowledged that he

34:06

worked with Hamilton and Kramer and that

34:09

he had some sort of contract with Hamilton where if

34:11

collector was able to land

34:13

any investment money

34:16

with investors, he would receive a

34:18

commission. He said, but he never was able to do

34:20

this. So now what's going on here? It

34:22

seems like a tangled wiggle, a lot of people

34:24

involved, and there's gonna be more as I

34:26

go through. Fletcher said he helped coordinate a two million dollars investment

34:28

between Hamilton and Kramer, but he didn't

34:30

know the source of the money. In a bit of a

34:32

bluff, I

34:34

asked Fletcher How much he made in this

34:36

transaction? And at first, he denied receiving any money. I told him, look, I

34:38

can go through the bank records, and I explained

34:40

the federal violation for lying to an

34:44

FBI agent. He then admitted that Kramer gave him three hundred

34:46

thousand dollars, but it was just alone and

34:48

had nothing to do with the two million

34:50

dollars. Even though this occurred at the

34:52

same time, I can

34:54

you produce a loan document or prove to

34:56

me about this three hundred thousand dollars? Of

34:58

course, he had nothing. He just said it was

35:00

a loan, a personal loan, and that's all he

35:03

knew about So I knew something funny was going

35:05

on there. I asked for an address for Kramer

35:07

in Hong Kong, and he said he did not

35:09

have one. He confirmed a lot of what I'd

35:11

already knew and provided some good amount of

35:13

information regarding Hamilton and Kramer. When I

35:15

returned to the Frisco office, I

35:17

called Fletcher and told him

35:19

I said, look, I'm not gonna follow through with this three

35:21

hundred thousand dollars you received from Kramer, but you're gonna

35:24

produce a good address for Kramer in

35:26

Hong Kong. few months

35:28

later, Fletcher came through, gave me an

35:30

address in Hong Kong at a

35:32

hospital. He said Kramer was sick, waiting

35:34

to have some sort of surgery, and he was gonna

35:36

be there for at least two weeks. I then contacted agent Hong

35:38

Kong, and as I expected, he said they

35:40

could not go out and do the interview. The Hong

35:44

Kong authorities would do it, but they

35:46

need a lot of information on the kitties. I nicely, and I'm gonna

35:48

say nicely, told him to forget it.

35:51

that lead was did. Fletcher did continue to provide

35:54

me with updated information on what

35:56

Hamilton and Kramer were doing with any other

35:58

investments they

36:00

were involved. short time later in twenty eighteen, I received a call

36:02

from an agent in the Los Angeles

36:04

FBI office, and he asked me, do you have

36:06

an open case

36:08

on Hamilton? because I just

36:10

had a walk in complaint with

36:12

a man from Nigeria. And

36:14

just to explain where a walk in complaint is,

36:16

agents are assigned duties such as

36:18

weekly duty or complaint

36:20

duty per day or a week.

36:22

If somebody comes into the FBI office

36:24

and wants to talk to an

36:26

agent, give them information or say they were a

36:28

victim or whatever. That agent on

36:30

duty that day is the person that will speak to

36:32

the individual. That was this

36:34

LA agent for the day. A man walked in from Nigeria. His name

36:36

was Daniela Choji.

36:40

Choji told This LA agent that Hamilton had defrotted him out

36:42

of one point six million dollars

36:44

in two thousand and twelve. After the

36:46

agent interviewed Cody,

36:48

the LA agent

36:50

conducted a search in the FBI database

36:52

and found my open case. That's how I

36:54

learned about it. Just a funny note here, how

36:56

many times have you heard

36:58

of Knight Nigerian scamming Americans. Yeah.

37:00

And now is the other way around because

37:02

I've heard this for so many years

37:05

but the LA agent eventually forwarded me

37:07

the interview of Koji. Let me

37:09

explain that to those who are

37:11

not aware of

37:14

the Nigerian scam letters that for us in the

37:16

business, we're very, very aware

37:18

of. So, yeah, this is kinda

37:20

different where you have somebody from

37:22

Nigeria being

37:24

scam, by, and American. I

37:26

contacted Koji and interviewed him on

37:28

the phone, which was rare conducting an

37:30

interview of this nature

37:32

by the phone. but I did it

37:34

anyway and Koji was currently

37:36

residing in LA but lives in

37:38

Nigeria. He was a Nigerian

37:40

tribal chief which is a well

37:42

respected position in Nigeria.

37:44

Chongqing was also a wealthy businessman in

37:46

Nigeria and was working with a small

37:48

group of Nigerians to raise a hundred and

37:50

fifty million dollars to build a

37:52

shopping center in Nigeria. Chodie met

37:54

Hamilton through a third party

37:56

and spoke to Hamilton only

37:58

by phone. Hamilton told Koji that through his

37:59

companies he could fund the money, a

38:02

hundred and fifty million. But Hamilton

38:04

required a one point six

38:06

million dollars

38:08

in seed money to be held in an escrow account at an escrow

38:10

business located in LA. Does

38:12

this sound familiar? The money would

38:14

be held for ninety days

38:16

refunded with a hundred and fifty million dollars. Hamilton told Koji that

38:18

he belonged to a large church and

38:21

they lent money for humanitarian

38:24

projects such

38:26

as this. The church had over two billion dollars to lend.

38:28

Hamilton sent to Sung Ji his

38:30

presentation document, which is the one I mentioned

38:32

earlier and the one that the Germans had been

38:34

provided by

38:36

Hamilton. Joey again trusted Hamilton, one because of

38:38

the church, two that Hamilton was a

38:40

retired army colonel, of course,

38:42

sending that presentation document that

38:46

looked good. Same kind of deal here. Now my case was growing with

38:48

more rabbit holes for me to go down.

38:50

Even though I knew the church story was

38:52

just a

38:54

story, I interviewed the pastor of the church and said the church does not

38:56

lend out money in no way do they have

38:58

two billion dollars. And again, you and

39:00

I know this, but there's

39:03

people out there that just are believers. The pastor of

39:05

the church also told me that Hamilton had

39:07

scammed a member of the church

39:09

out of some money. I

39:12

was able to locate and interview this person and he confirmed

39:14

that Hamilton did in fact scam him out

39:16

of money. So this is just more of a

39:19

domino fact. Joey funded six hundred thousand dollars of his own

39:21

money and the other investors put up the

39:23

remaining one million dollars. Joey

39:25

and Hamilton signed

39:28

a contract that the one point six million dollars would be held in escrow

39:30

and after ninety days the seed money would

39:32

be returned plus the hundred and fifty

39:34

million dollars in funding for

39:36

the project. Koji wired

39:38

the money to the LA escrow account.

39:40

Koji assured he had some type

39:42

of signature authority or access to this money,

39:44

but he did not. After the ninety days passed,

39:46

Chodie did not receive the funding nor

39:48

the escrow money. Chodie began contacting

39:51

Hamilton and Hamilton give Joe

39:53

J. all kinds of excuses why it was delayed

39:55

and that it was coming any day.

39:57

This continued into the later part of

39:59

twenty fourteen and J. J.

40:01

tried to explain to the other Nigerian investors

40:03

what Hamilton was saying, but they were very skeptical. They just

40:06

wanted their money back. Chongqing

40:08

also was out six hundred thousand dollars that he

40:10

wanted to

40:12

get back. A short time later, the other investors went to the

40:14

Nigerian authorities, and the Nigerian

40:16

authorities contacted Koji and demanded

40:18

that he pay the

40:20

investors back They're one million

40:22

dollars within two months or he was

40:24

going to prison. Well, guess what?

40:26

Koji never received the money

40:28

from Hamilton. He had already lost six hundred thousand dollars and did not have

40:30

money to give to the investors, the

40:32

one million dollars. So, chose he

40:34

went to prison for

40:36

two years. I'd never had a victim in any of my cases that was scammed out

40:38

of money and then saw it poured in their

40:40

wounds by going to prison. So that's all in

40:42

and went to prison for

40:44

two years. Now he's out of

40:46

prison and he was in LA. He was

40:48

quite unhappy. He was trying to get

40:50

his money back. He didn't have access to the

40:52

escrow account. He kept contacting Hamilton, and Hamilton kept

40:54

assuring that the money was there and it was gonna come

40:56

through. And again, all Chodie was

40:58

hoping for was hope just like the

41:00

two germs. At the time,

41:02

Koji did not know that there was a third

41:04

party involved. Here's another third

41:06

party. Koji provided me with the signed

41:08

contract that Hamilton had

41:10

with him information on the escrow account and a lot of other

41:12

documents involving the escrow account. So,

41:14

of course, I subpoenaed these account records,

41:16

and, of course, I was not

41:18

surprised to see Koji's

41:20

money deposited into the escrow account by

41:22

one point six million dollars and the money

41:24

then was immediately wire transferred out

41:26

to individuals

41:28

and entities The amounts were as little as three thousand five hundred dollars to

41:30

one point two million dollars I was

41:32

asking myself, who are these people? Who are

41:34

these entities? Now I had

41:36

several more leads if I wanted to keep going

41:38

down this path following the money. I

41:40

would need to locate the accounts where the

41:42

money was wired to and subpoena

41:44

these records. I would also need to

41:46

locate these people and conduct interviews,

41:48

but the statute limitations were running out

41:50

on this choogee matter. I had just too

41:52

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Meijer app? Let me ask you a

42:24

question. The time

42:24

is running

42:25

out on this

42:28

statute, but where are you

42:30

in your time frame

42:32

of mandatory retirement? Now you've

42:34

got this new element that you're now

42:37

having to add to the investigation. How much time now

42:39

do you have left? And are you

42:41

afraid that maybe you won't be able to

42:43

get this investigation completed before

42:45

they make you Walk out that

42:48

door. Yes. Since I got the one

42:50

year extension, I have until

42:52

August twenty nineteen. because I

42:54

received this information from the LA agent

42:56

in late twenty eighteen,

42:58

so I'm down to less than a

43:00

year before I'm mandatory

43:02

retirement. J. G. just learned about

43:04

this third party that was involved. This third party

43:06

was Big Earl Roper. He was

43:08

connected to the owner of the

43:10

escrow company, and Roper was

43:12

the one that steered

43:14

Hamilton to this escrow company. This was a

43:16

legitimate escrow company in LA. So

43:18

now I wanted to interview the owner of the

43:20

escrow company in LA, but she

43:22

quickly loitured up and wanted

43:24

immunity. This is what happens when you don't do a cold

43:26

call. But I told her attorney at

43:28

the time that I had no reason to

43:30

believe that her client was

43:32

a subject but she's not going to

43:34

receive immunity until I talk to her. So of

43:36

course, the interview never happened. After

43:38

receiving the escrow documents, I spread them

43:40

out in my conference room and I reviewed

43:42

the emails, slash letters from Hamilton for both the

43:44

emails and the letters from Hamilton to the

43:46

escrow company. Hamilton needed to

43:48

sign letters

43:50

authorizing release of funds from the escrow account. It needed

43:52

to have his signature on it before these funds

43:54

could be released. But after I went

43:57

back through the email authorizations I

44:00

noticed that the signatures on the letters were not attachments

44:02

to the emails and they were exact

44:05

signatures. So what I was

44:07

looking at was emails with

44:10

letters attached and the signatures were exact.

44:12

So the only thing it could be would be electronic

44:14

signatures. I wondered if hamilton

44:18

was doing electronic signatures, which I

44:20

doubted. I first thought of Roper because he was

44:22

the one that steered Hamilton to this

44:24

escrow account. Of course, Hamilton telling Chodie that the money was still

44:26

there. But I needed to do a cold call

44:28

interview of Roper. I had an address in

44:30

Philadelphia and one in Miami

44:32

on Roper. but the Miami

44:34

address looked more promising. By

44:36

April twenty nineteen, I have been

44:38

going back and forth with the wind turbines

44:40

scam and the Nigerian

44:42

shopping center scam. So I'm at twenty nineteen.

44:44

Now I've gotta go to August twenty nineteen before I have to retire. And we have

44:46

grand jury in the eastern district

44:49

once a month. it's not like there's

44:51

a grand jury every week, and it's in

44:54

Sherman, Texas. Here's another one that

44:56

popped up. I did receive a call from a

44:58

DOJ attorney in Washington. He learned that I

45:00

had been working an investigation

45:02

on Hamilton. He told me that he had an

45:04

attorney in town from Bulgaria.

45:06

Hamilton had

45:08

scanned this Bulgarian out of millions of dollars in

45:10

Bulgaria. This was a

45:11

boy co Golekoff. Golekoff

45:14

was his last name and he spoke very little

45:18

English and he had a Washington DC attorney who spoke

45:20

Bulgaria. The DOJ attorney asked

45:22

me if I would come to Washington to

45:24

interview Bologna

45:26

cost. I was not too surprised receiving this information

45:28

since my earlier research on Hamilton

45:30

pointed me to a civil case

45:32

against Hamilton in Bulgaria. So

45:35

Hamilton, I knew was having some problems in Bulgaria. That would have been a

45:37

mess of rabbit holes to go down for me.

45:39

Now I had truly too many rabbit holes to

45:41

go down, and it was

45:44

like I need to get this case wrapped up. My clock is I

45:46

wanted to get an indictment or a guilty plea,

45:48

a conviction before I retired at the end

45:52

of August. As I mentioned, the Federal Granger meets once a month, so I

45:54

was definitely running out of time. After

45:56

some convincing from the

45:58

DOJ attorney, I agreed

45:59

and almost immediately flew up to Washington.

46:02

I met with the DOJ attorney. He

46:04

provided me with a few details. The

46:06

interview took place at one of the DOJ

46:08

attorney office and in the

46:10

interview was myself, the DOJ attorney, a DOJ contract,

46:12

Bulgarian linguist, Golikoff, and

46:14

his attorney who also spoke

46:18

Bulgarian. I told the linguist to translate verbatim as much as

46:20

he could when I asked the questions, and

46:22

the translators spoke to Golacov in Bulgarian,

46:24

and then I would get the

46:27

answers in English. Now mind you, Golar Koff was also

46:29

an attorney. I began the interview, which

46:32

was slow due to the translations

46:34

and discussions between Golar

46:36

Koff and

46:38

his attorney. I could tell in the and

46:40

pissed off at Hamilton. Golikov

46:42

discussed his investment partnership with

46:45

Hamilton in Bulgaria. After about an hour in the interview,

46:47

Gomacoff mentioned that he was Hamilton's attorney in this

46:50

partnership. When I heard that, I could not

46:52

believe what I was hearing, so I asked the

46:54

DOJ a

46:56

translator to tell Gomacoff to repeat what he just said. After

46:58

he repeated that he was Hamilton's attorney

47:00

in this partnership, I said,

47:02

we need to stop the interview.

47:04

and I told the DOJ attorney and go across attorney, we should

47:06

discuss this and step outside the meeting. We

47:09

stepped out, spoke in the break

47:12

room, and I asked the DOJ attorney if he knew Gohacoff

47:14

was Hamilton's attorney in this partnership. He

47:16

said this was the first time I've heard of this.

47:19

I said, look, I believe we have attorney client

47:22

privilege here, and I was uncomfortable

47:24

continuing the interview. The DOJ

47:26

attorney agreed, but not Goldman

47:28

Sachs attorney. she added that it was not a problem in Bulgaria, we

47:30

could get around this. I told her, look, we're

47:32

here in the United States, and this is an FBI

47:36

case, and we have to abide by the US laws, not Bulgaria. She

47:38

said, look, if we can figure this out,

47:40

it would be difficult for Golacov to

47:42

return to the United States. I

47:45

said, I'm sorry, this is all I can do.

47:47

So we went back in the meeting and announced that

47:49

we were discontinuing the interview, and

47:52

she spoke to Golikoff

47:54

and Bulgarian really, I'm glad I didn't understand what he was saying because his

47:56

voice was raised and he was going on

47:58

and on. Not very

47:59

happy. No. Not

48:02

at all. I apologized as much as I could and was

48:04

gathering my documents and departed the interview.

48:06

This was not a very beneficial interview, of

48:08

course, a waste of time, but it was

48:10

worth it. but maybe I

48:12

avoided an enormous problem, so

48:14

the next day I flew back to Dallas. When

48:16

I returned to the Frisco RA, I had a

48:18

chance to really study

48:20

the documents had on a wind turbine case, and I had three contracts

48:22

to look at. The contract between the Germans

48:24

and Hamilton regarding the two million

48:26

dollar

48:26

escrow money the

48:28

one between the Germans and Hamilton regarding funding and then

48:31

the one between Hamilton and Kramer

48:32

for the two million dollars currency exchange

48:36

investment. I noticed that Hamilton

48:38

and Kramer signed their contract three weeks prior

48:40

to Hamilton signing the escrow

48:42

money contract with the Germans.

48:45

Which meant Hamilton already knew that he would be

48:48

wiring the Germans two million

48:50

dollars to Kramer, which would not be

48:52

held in escrow as stated in the

48:54

escrow account. This showed

48:56

intent. Just to explain that

48:58

again, Hamilton had a

49:00

contract with Kramer three weeks

49:02

prior to the contract with

49:04

the Germans So Hamilton knew that he was gonna be getting money from

49:06

the Germans and he was gonna be immediately

49:08

singing it to Kramer because he already had that

49:10

contract in

49:12

place. so the money was never gonna enter escrow. This was good intent

49:14

showing what Hamilton had planned to do

49:16

with the money. I also located an email

49:19

from Hamilton to the Germans dated June

49:22

twenty fifteen. That stated the two

49:24

million dollars was still held in

49:26

escrow even though The contract

49:28

and the money to Cramer was in

49:30

September twenty fourteen. So this was

49:32

more evidence. It was nine

49:34

months after the Germans had wire

49:36

transfer the money and he had

49:38

told the Germans their money was still

49:40

sitting in escrow as of June twenty

49:42

fifteen. At this point, I realized the

49:44

money was truly gone. contacted Von

49:46

Sauer in Australia. I told Von Sauer

49:48

that I had bad news for him and

49:50

Rachel. Based on the records I reviewed,

49:52

their money was long gone and other

49:54

investigations and allegations where Hamilton

49:56

may have defrotted other people. I further

49:59

explained that Hamilton immediately wire

50:01

transfer their money to Cramer in Hong

50:03

Kong right after they had wired it to Hamilton, and

50:05

the money never set in an escrow account.

50:07

After I told Bon Sauer this, I heard

50:09

silence on the

50:12

other end I knew he was having a difficult time accepting this

50:14

because all they had was hope. After what seemed

50:16

like a long period of silence,

50:18

Von Sauer's wife was on the phone

50:20

with me. Ron Sauber just could

50:22

not speak anymore. I explained this

50:24

to his wife and we spoke for a while and

50:26

she was very nice. She handed the phone

50:28

back to him to

50:30

Von Sauber We spoke a little longer. He actually thanked me for the

50:32

job I was doing, which in a way

50:34

made me feel worse for him and Rachel.

50:36

I explained

50:38

the legal to him that the judge would most likely order

50:40

Hamilton to pay restitution. I knew that

50:42

Hamilton had never made a dime while he

50:44

owned worldwide

50:46

projects but I knew he had check

50:48

and Social Security check coming into his home.

50:50

He also had his home and cars were

50:52

paid for. So I knew he had

50:56

assets. Later, I reviewed line by line Hamilton's

50:58

presentation document, which is what helped

51:00

push the Germans over to doing business

51:02

with Hamilton.

51:04

This was the same document that the Germans gave me, Hamilton gave

51:06

me and Shoji gave me. The corporate structure

51:08

had two names listed. Hamilton was listed

51:10

as the president and the vice president had

51:13

been deceased several years. The thirteen worldwide

51:15

project locations in the US and the

51:17

nineteen overseas locations were

51:20

all phony. And none of

51:22

the contract projects existed. The entire document is

51:24

phony. My case against Hamilton was

51:26

growing stronger. The time had come

51:28

to re

51:30

interview Hamilton now that I had

51:32

strong evidence and leverage, which is

51:34

the position I always wanna put myself in

51:36

before a subject interview. I wanna be

51:38

prepared to not only indite the

51:40

subject at that given time, but to get a conviction if I needed to

51:42

go to trial at that exact time. Of

51:44

course, I grabbed s a Jasper again,

51:46

briefed him on what I had in

51:48

the case. I wanted to give

51:50

Hamilton a chance to agree to plead

51:52

guilty and come clean to avoid the

51:54

indictment process and ultimately

51:56

a trial. I brought the documents and evidence with you. In July twenty

51:58

eighteen, almost a year after I

51:59

first interviewed Hamilton, we arrived

52:02

unannounced at his home, and

52:04

again, he

52:06

was cordial. Amelukin appeared more feeble and his body was

52:08

continually shaking during the interview. We

52:10

inquired and learned that he had some

52:12

medical condition which I

52:14

can't recall that caused

52:16

him this constant shaky. And I

52:18

knew he was getting up there in age. The first

52:20

issue I wanted to begin with was with

52:22

what he had told us in our

52:24

first interview about investing two million dollars with Cramer and

52:26

receiving a return of seventy five million

52:28

dollars within a few months. I

52:30

asked him this question again, his

52:32

answer was saying that it was

52:34

correct, he'd received a return of seventy

52:36

five million dollars. I could not believe he

52:38

was sticking to this story. It

52:40

felt consulting, I kept giving him

52:42

an opportunity to correct himself, but he

52:44

continued. Finally, I told him,

52:46

I said, do you realize it's a federal

52:48

crime to lie to an

52:50

FBI agent? and I asked him, are you aware of Title eighteen

52:52

USC code one thousand and one?

52:54

Hamilton looked down and said, yes,

52:56

I'm familiar with this violation. I'm a

52:58

retired army

53:00

colonel. He had immediately admitted that he never previously invested

53:02

with Kramer, and he made this story up when

53:04

he spoke to us the first time. Again, we

53:06

didn't have leverage. We couldn't call him on

53:09

he couldn't explain why he lied to us. So

53:11

now I already had him on a federal violation of

53:13

lying to an FBI agent. I moved

53:15

on and handing him copy of the presentation document he had

53:17

given to the Germans in Chochi. I told him that I

53:19

knew the VIP of worldwide projects

53:21

had already passed it was

53:23

already deceased prior to Hamilton listing him on

53:26

this corporate structure. Hamilton did not

53:28

disagree. I went through each of the

53:30

nineteen

53:30

foreign companies Hamilton had listed

53:32

As companies under worldwide projects control, the

53:34

construction projects listed in this presentation

53:37

documents were in Ethiopia, Nigeria,

53:40

China, Jamaica. Bulgaria,

53:42

Egypt, and many other foreign countries. First Hamilton

53:44

stated that these work companies representing

53:46

worldwide projects with its employees.

53:50

When I told him that these companies did not exist, nor

53:52

that there was any worldwide construction companies,

53:54

nor employees based on my

53:56

research, he changed his team. He

53:59

said he

53:59

knew I had thoroughly investigated

54:02

this and admitted that they never

54:04

constructed any business. This was the

54:06

same

54:06

for the thirteen US

54:08

locations. I went through several

54:10

of the individuals that he had listed

54:12

with these thirteen locations. And I asked

54:14

Hamilton to explain how they

54:16

represent and work for worldwide projects.

54:18

He had listed a company in He said that the person

54:21

was a relative that owned a lumber broker

54:23

business, which could be used in the

54:25

construction of Hamilton's funded projects.

54:28

Remember, Hamilton only funded humanitarian projects overseas.

54:31

Here, this company's important organ.

54:33

I asked him about

54:36

the environmental office he listed in San Francisco. Hamilton said office

54:38

was closed and I asked, what about the

54:40

office listed as a commodity in West

54:44

Texas? He said, oh, that office was a beat business, the

54:46

owner was deceased. Was the food gonna

54:48

be used for construction workers in a

54:50

foreign company? Of course, I'm thinking to myself.

54:53

The office in Illinois was listed as a

54:56

commodity. Hamilton said it was a grain

54:58

business. These businesses did not

55:00

exist and nothing was

55:02

ever constructed. The pattern of fraud

55:04

continued throughout the presentation document, which included pictures of the supposed

55:06

projects the entire presentation

55:08

document was a fraud to

55:11

think the Germans and the other victims relied on

55:14

this to assist them in making their

55:16

decision to invest. He had also listed

55:18

ongoing construction

55:20

projects which I pointed out never existed and never broke ground.

55:22

He explained that he'd considered

55:24

them as ongoing because he

55:26

was trying to start them up

55:28

How absurd is that? I moved on to the contract Hamilton had

55:31

with the Germans. At first, he stuck

55:33

with the Germans knew that the

55:36

money was invested with Cramer in Hong Kong in the very

55:38

beginning. I then showed Hamilton the

55:40

email he had sent to the Germans

55:42

dated June

55:44

twenty fifteen. stating that the

55:46

funds were still secured

55:48

in escrow. This was nine

55:50

months after the fact. I told him that they

55:52

did not know about Kramer until

55:54

around March twenty fifteen,

55:56

and they were very willing to testify

55:58

against him in this entire matter. You've

55:59

already warned him about

56:02

lying to an FBI agent.

56:04

He understood that started

56:06

to tell you the truth, but

56:07

now it sounds like he's still

56:10

dealing in lies

56:12

and embellishments. Yes. And it's like he wasn't believing

56:13

that these things happen. He just believed in

56:16

what he was doing. I don't know if it's naive. I

56:18

can't say

56:20

it's naive. he just didn't understand what he was getting himself in or he

56:22

got himself in. You think it was a justification?

56:24

It's kinda hard to

56:26

understand whether or not this

56:30

was a scam from the very beginning

56:32

or just his way of being

56:34

able to get enough money so that

56:36

he could make this quote unquote was

56:39

it called again a currency? Yeah. Chinese

56:42

currency exchange, and I'll get to that

56:44

because I bring it up with the defense

56:46

attorney who is the former United

56:48

States attorney. So at this

56:50

point, he's trying to tell you

56:52

that, yeah, he may have done all

56:54

of this, but he was gonna make

56:56

a lot of money and be able

56:58

to do everything that he was telling

57:00

the Germans and everybody else that he

57:02

was gonna do because he was gonna make all

57:04

this money.

57:06

Yes.

57:06

I truly thought in his mind he was gonna be able

57:08

to get this money. But you know, I've met so

57:10

many people in my career that invested money and

57:13

they knew it was gone. but

57:15

they truly thought they were somehow gonna get it. Somehow it was

57:18

gonna come about. Hamilton was

57:20

not forthcoming that to the Germans

57:22

to say, hey, look, I'll take you two

57:24

million dollars and I'm gonna give it to

57:26

a man in Hong Kong that I've never met and he's gonna turn it into a hundred

57:28

million dollars in three months.

57:31

At that point, I know the Germans, which they said,

57:34

they would have stepped in and said, are you crazy?

57:36

There is no way you're gonna risk out two million

57:38

dollars. But when he signed

57:40

a contract said he was gonna sit in escrow. In the contract, you know, it's

57:42

as good as what it is on paper. They all signed

57:44

it. They believed it. And of course, his

57:46

background, they

57:48

believed it. And he thought, well, they'll never know the difference. I'll send

57:50

the two million dollars to Hong Kong, and I'll

57:52

get a hundred million dollars and we'll get

57:54

a chunk of money out

57:56

of this. I guess what? I just realized what this all

57:58

sounds like and it just sounds like

57:59

a gambler,

58:02

somebody who's in Las

58:04

Vegas or your local

58:06

casino who really believes that

58:08

they're

58:08

gonna take the last bit. They're more

58:10

good money, and they're going to go to the tables, and they're

58:12

gonna make enough to not only

58:14

pay their mortgage, but to

58:16

buy a mansion and

58:18

to fund the

58:20

business and to live happily ever after. It's kind

58:22

of the same mindset. You're hitting

58:25

the nail on the head with that

58:27

because I will mention that at

58:29

the end with the US attorney when we had the

58:32

meeting. But the difference in what you're saying

58:34

is you and I could go

58:36

to Vegas and put a thousand dollars down on the table, but it's our

58:38

money. This was not Hamilton's money.

58:40

But Jerry, if you wanna give me ten thousand

58:42

dollars of your own money, yeah, I'll take it

58:44

to Vegas. No

58:46

way. Yeah. No way. So that's

58:48

what he was doing. He was gambling with

58:50

other people's money, not his. I

58:53

said that this was nine months after the

58:55

Germans had wired the money to the

58:57

supposed escrow account. I told him

58:59

that they did not know about Cramer until

59:02

March twenty fifteen, and they were

59:04

very willing to testify against

59:06

him and in this entire matter.

59:08

Hamilton corrected himself and said

59:10

that, well, maybe he told the Germans about Cramer

59:12

later. So he's admitting things. I asked

59:14

Hamilton why he signed

59:16

a contract to invest two

59:18

million dollars with Kramer three weeks

59:20

prior to receiving the money from the

59:22

Germans. He had no answer to this

59:24

question. And here's intent to

59:26

defraud right here. I moved on

59:28

to Koji's one point six million

59:30

dollar investment. He admitted that the

59:32

investment in the contract with Koji

59:34

that the money would remain

59:35

an escrow for ninety days and Hamilton will

59:37

fund the money of a hundred and fifty million

59:39

dollars for the shopping center. Hamilton said he

59:41

was introduced to big

59:44

Earl Roper By telephone, a few years prior, Roper

59:46

got Hamilton to use the

59:48

escrow company in LA.

59:50

Roper said that he would fund thirty

59:52

million dollars

59:54

towards the project, he would raise the funding through some

59:56

type of middle term note. I had

59:58

to look one of those up and I still

1:00:01

don't understand it that well. hamilton

1:00:03

didn't even understand this, but he trusted

1:00:06

Roper. I showed Hamilton the

1:00:08

escrow release letters with his signature

1:00:10

on him which I felt were the

1:00:12

e signatures, the electronic signatures. He said he did not sign these. So

1:00:14

again, it looks like Hamilton was scammed

1:00:17

out by Roper, but I'll get to that in a

1:00:20

second. Hamilton knew that these funds were

1:00:22

gone. Each time he asked Roper

1:00:24

Roper said not to worry about it, the money

1:00:26

was coming. But Hamilton knew the

1:00:28

funds were out of the escrow account. Finally,

1:00:30

Roper, and the owner of the escrow

1:00:32

company, locked Hamilton out of

1:00:34

the account. I asked Hamilton why at that point in time did he not

1:00:36

contact the authorities? The police, the

1:00:38

FBI? Because, look, you just lost

1:00:40

Chodie's money.

1:00:42

he didn't have an answer for that. I guess he thought, well, it's not my money. So in

1:00:44

this meeting, I told Hamilton, if he

1:00:46

didn't agree to plead guilty, he

1:00:49

would be indicted. He just did not

1:00:51

think anything ended the interview, and at this point, I

1:00:54

believe the Roper may have conned

1:00:56

Hamilton or they were working together

1:00:58

on this. I

1:01:00

thought I had a good address on Roper in Miami versus the

1:01:02

Philadelphia address. So after coordinating with the

1:01:04

Miami agent, I traveled to Miami and we arrived

1:01:06

at the address I had for Roper. kind

1:01:09

of a weird looking or odd looking apartment condo

1:01:12

building, and you had to go through the lobby to

1:01:14

enter. We knocked on the door, received

1:01:16

no answer, then we sat in the

1:01:18

car and from time to time we went back and

1:01:20

knocked on the door. We finally gave up and

1:01:22

I was scheduled to fly back to Dallas the

1:01:24

next morning. So we gave up for the day. We went out and had a great

1:01:26

Cuban dinner. And the agent agreed

1:01:28

to pick me up in the morning at my

1:01:30

hotel, and then we would

1:01:32

try again. I could always change

1:01:34

my flight. That morning, we knocked on the

1:01:36

door again, but no answer, so I thought it

1:01:38

was time for me to punt. I placed

1:01:40

my card on the door thinking maybe somebody was really inside but

1:01:42

did not want to answer the door. I do

1:01:44

not like doing this for a subject or

1:01:46

potential subject

1:01:48

interview but my hand was forced. So I said, let's sit in the car

1:01:50

for a minute until we need to head to the airport.

1:01:52

A very short time later, we were

1:01:54

about to leave, and I received a phone call

1:01:58

the woman on the other hand said she saw my card on the door. I told

1:02:00

her I wanted to speak to Roper, and she said that

1:02:02

Roper was her father, but he was in

1:02:04

Philadelphia and would return over the

1:02:08

weekend. Well, today was Thursday. As we were driving away towards

1:02:10

the airport, my phone rang again

1:02:12

and it was rope. Like usual, I

1:02:14

beat around the bush on why I wanted

1:02:16

to speak to him. He said, okay, let's meet

1:02:19

Monday morning. I agreed, I

1:02:21

called my SSA, my supervisor, from

1:02:23

the parking lot and said,

1:02:25

hey, look, the potential subject said he'll meet me

1:02:27

Monday morning. He said, why don't you stay the weekend

1:02:29

in Miami? And I thought, well, it would be nice to

1:02:32

spend that beacon in Miami,

1:02:34

being in single, fun place to hang out.

1:02:36

But I traveled a lot for work, and I

1:02:38

traveled a lot for vacation. So I said, no, I'll

1:02:40

just fly back home and I'll fly back

1:02:42

on Sunday and meet him Monday

1:02:44

morning. He agreed, but when I arrived back

1:02:46

to the Frisco RA, guess what?

1:02:48

I received a call from the Philadelphia attorney stating that

1:02:50

he's representing Roper. This is the reason

1:02:52

why I like the cold call interview. I give

1:02:54

this attorney very little

1:02:56

information. He mentioned immunity,

1:02:58

etcetera, etcetera. I told him that I

1:03:00

might get back with him. He was a nice man

1:03:02

and we had a friendly argument about the

1:03:04

better team, the eagles of the cowboys. But

1:03:06

I ended the

1:03:08

This was just another missed opportunity and I needed to

1:03:10

move on and stay focused on

1:03:12

the scam involving

1:03:14

the Germans. Get

1:03:15

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deals in the Meijer app. Next, I wanted to attempt

1:03:45

a cold

1:03:46

call interview of Michael Morgan out

1:03:50

in LA. If you recall, he was the individual who received one million

1:03:52

dollars from Kramer immediately after

1:03:54

Kramer received two million dollars

1:03:56

from Hamilton. and Morgan had

1:03:58

already spent time in prison for a

1:03:59

very similar scheme with

1:04:02

Kramer. I had several addresses for Morgan,

1:04:04

but I felt he was in San

1:04:06

Clemente, California. I had a post

1:04:08

office address for Morgan

1:04:10

listed in Las Vegas. In the

1:04:12

fall of twenty eighteen, I was going to be

1:04:14

in Vegas for a three day vacation. I have taken

1:04:16

several trips to Vegas endless

1:04:18

numbers of time, so it wasn't a big deal for me

1:04:20

to cover a lead while I was out there. I wanted

1:04:22

to check this post office box out while I

1:04:24

was there. Even though it

1:04:26

was on my own dime, I had to get

1:04:28

my supervisor's approval, which he

1:04:30

thought I was crazy. I also needed a

1:04:32

Vegas agent and the Vegas

1:04:34

office's approval. I got all the approvals were completed, and the agent picked me

1:04:36

up, and we headed over to the post office

1:04:38

location. We walked to the counter.

1:04:40

IDed ourselves

1:04:42

told the young man behind the counter I was looking for Morgan, and I had an address

1:04:44

for him at this post office box. He

1:04:46

pulled the file, said Morgan has

1:04:49

all of his forwarded to an address in San Clemente,

1:04:52

which was one of the addresses I had from.

1:04:54

He said he'd only seen Morgan once, which

1:04:56

was about three years ago when he initially

1:04:58

opened the mailbox. but he says the

1:05:00

mailbox was due to be

1:05:02

renewed in three weeks. I asked for

1:05:04

copies of what was in the file would you

1:05:06

give me and I handed him my card and asked him to call me

1:05:08

if he hears from Morgan a few weeks

1:05:10

later, surprisingly, I received a call

1:05:12

at the

1:05:14

Frisco office from that same

1:05:16

man at the mailbox location, he told me

1:05:18

that Morgan just renewed the

1:05:20

mailbox and provided

1:05:22

further information. My casework would have been much easier if more

1:05:24

Americans were like this guy. I was ready to

1:05:26

travel to San Clemente, but I was not

1:05:28

expecting much Again, I've been chasing

1:05:30

shadows and I was running out of

1:05:32

time. The address I had for him was

1:05:34

his ex wife's address, but I

1:05:36

also had a former

1:05:38

girlfriend's address Since when I ran

1:05:40

Morgan's name, she had filed a restraining order on Morgan

1:05:42

and I obtained those records which

1:05:45

included her address. It was

1:05:47

now July twenty nineteen, forty five

1:05:50

days before my mandatory retirement.

1:05:52

So I only had one shot at this. I was

1:05:54

again chasing shadows. I had

1:05:56

arranged for an LA agent to meet me at

1:05:58

a parking lot near the address

1:05:59

we had for Morgan. Since the LA

1:06:02

agent lived far from San Clemente. It was easier for him to just

1:06:04

meet me. I jumped in his car. We set

1:06:06

up surveillance on the home, which was on

1:06:08

a busy street with a lot

1:06:10

of back activity. We wrote

1:06:12

down all the license plate numbers that were

1:06:14

parked up and down the street in front of this

1:06:16

home, and he called the LA office to have

1:06:18

these license plates

1:06:20

numbers run. After a while, he checked back with the LA office, and they still

1:06:22

hadn't run it, the license plates, and they said

1:06:24

they would get to it. Well, you know, that's a

1:06:26

big office. So I

1:06:28

called the wonderful support

1:06:30

employee, we had in Frisco, my go to

1:06:32

person in the office, and I told her where

1:06:34

I was and what

1:06:36

I needed. She gave me the usual hard time about it, but she always came

1:06:38

through. Less than fifteen minutes later, she

1:06:40

had the results, but they were all

1:06:42

negative, nothing that came up with

1:06:44

Morgan's name. The LA agent was

1:06:46

very impressed with our RA. As he

1:06:48

was getting later, our surveillance was

1:06:50

being spotted by a young crowd and they started

1:06:52

taking pictures of us and waving

1:06:54

at us. I said, okay, let's go to the door. So we went and knocked on

1:06:56

the door and moored at the sun and came to the

1:06:58

door and confirmed his mother lived there, but

1:07:00

she was

1:07:02

not there. At the moment, he was very helpful. He went on and

1:07:04

on about how his dad was a

1:07:06

loser, but he always seemed to have

1:07:08

money but

1:07:10

no job. He said Morgan was dating someone that was a hostess at

1:07:12

a nice hotel nearby. He gave

1:07:14

me his mother's telephone number, but instead

1:07:16

I said, Please call

1:07:18

her knowing that she may not answer a call

1:07:20

from a strange number. He called and

1:07:22

spoke to her for a second and handed me

1:07:24

the phone. I told her who we

1:07:26

were, and I said, you're not in any

1:07:28

trouble, but we're looking for your former

1:07:30

husband, Morgan. She said, meet me at my

1:07:32

boyfriend's house, which is just a few

1:07:34

minutes away. We met her at her boyfriend's house and she went on and on

1:07:36

about how bad Morgan was, how

1:07:38

he cheated on her, and he told her

1:07:40

he made

1:07:42

money investing but he would

1:07:44

never give her information and he was very

1:07:46

secretive about it. I guess in a way he was

1:07:48

correct. She was shocked when I told

1:07:50

her he received one million dollars

1:07:52

in late two thousand and fourteen. She said she didn't see any of this

1:07:54

money, and I believed her. And the address

1:07:56

she had for him turned out to be a bad

1:07:58

address. I

1:07:59

asked her where he might hang out or where I could possibly find it. She

1:08:02

gave me the name of a restaurant

1:08:04

slash bar that he frequents in

1:08:06

Dana Point,

1:08:08

California. we left and tracked down his ex girlfriend, the one that hit

1:08:10

the restraining order on him. But no matter what

1:08:12

my charm was, she would not speak

1:08:16

to me. We then tried to locate the current

1:08:18

girlfriend at the hotel, but she was not there. So now it was totally striking out.

1:08:20

It was getting late and

1:08:22

I knew the case agent had a

1:08:24

long drive home and he also had a busy caseload. I said

1:08:26

I was gonna go to that restaurant bar to see if I could locate him, and

1:08:29

then I would be flying back

1:08:31

to Dallas in the morning He

1:08:33

offered to go with me or to call me

1:08:35

if I located me. I said, no. Just head on home. Don't worry about All is good. I knew

1:08:37

if I actually did see Morgan

1:08:39

at this bar it

1:08:42

would not be smart to me to attempt an interview of him

1:08:45

since I would not have another agent as

1:08:47

a witness. I guess I was

1:08:49

more curious That night, I found the restaurant

1:08:51

bar and I spoke to the bartender. I showed him pictures of Morgan and he yes. Morgan's here all

1:08:53

the time, but he has

1:08:55

no set schedule. I

1:08:58

left the bartender my card and asked him to call

1:09:00

me if he sees him. Well, the next day I

1:09:02

did return to Frisco knowing that I

1:09:05

was out of time. I received a call

1:09:07

while I was having a party at my house

1:09:09

that weekend, and it was Morgan who said he

1:09:11

would meet me Monday morning. I

1:09:13

plan to fly out that Sunday, but when I tried to confirm with Morgan, he

1:09:15

disappeared. He didn't return the calls and nothing. So that lead was

1:09:17

over and I had no more

1:09:20

time left. At

1:09:22

this point, Weycho's losses had exceeded

1:09:24

fifteen million dollars, which I mentioned at

1:09:27

the beginning of the podcast. This

1:09:29

included money he owed when he

1:09:31

hired the law firm, in the accounting firm

1:09:33

to draft the contracts to purchase the wind turbine companies. He was being

1:09:35

sued for his liability to

1:09:38

the contracts and worse he was being penalized for not returning

1:09:41

the pension funds and being sued

1:09:43

by the pension company. So

1:09:45

he's getting hit with penalties from the

1:09:47

pension company, and he was being sued by them

1:09:49

because he couldn't even pay the penalties back. He

1:09:52

had to sell his expensive

1:09:54

home, had to sell a second home to sell removed

1:09:56

his daughter from private school. His

1:09:58

mother mortgaged her home and

1:09:59

sold properties

1:10:02

to pay these debts. losing

1:10:04

his wife and he was very

1:10:06

depressed. I met with the AUSA Garrett

1:10:08

and we both knew there was only one

1:10:10

grand jury bake left in at this

1:10:13

in August and I was retiring at end of By now, had an

1:10:15

attorney be a former

1:10:19

United States attorney not

1:10:22

a former assistant United States attorney, which you run across from time to time. Some lead the federal

1:10:24

prosecutor's office and

1:10:27

are now defense attorneys. I

1:10:30

knew what I was up against. We agreed to have

1:10:32

a meeting at the United States Attorney's

1:10:34

Office. It was myself, AUSA Garrett,

1:10:37

the former United States Attorney, and a young attorney that

1:10:39

came with him. In an attempt to convince them to

1:10:41

get Hamilton deplete guilty, we give them

1:10:43

a summary of the case I

1:10:45

had against him including the false statement he made

1:10:48

to us in the first interview. I knew their

1:10:50

goal was to figure us out and see how

1:10:52

strong our case was

1:10:54

against Hamilton. I didn't mind sharing this information

1:10:56

knowing that at discovery they would get

1:10:58

this information anyway. The former US

1:11:01

attorney said that Kramer stole the money and

1:11:03

we should go after him instead. I think

1:11:05

maybe the former United States attorney

1:11:07

was testing me. I shot off

1:11:09

and said, hamilton received this money and

1:11:12

attempted to make money off of

1:11:14

it with Kramer. Hamilton stole this

1:11:16

money from the Germans. It doesn't

1:11:18

matter if Kramer stole the money from

1:11:20

Hamilton. I said, would you say the same

1:11:22

thing if Hamilton went to Vegas with the money and lost it at a casino,

1:11:25

gambling? You mentioned

1:11:28

that earlier. that's exactly what I'd mentioned to

1:11:30

the US attorney. It was not his money to invest or lose. It should've remained in the

1:11:32

escrow like the contract stated. And

1:11:34

I said evidence will show this.

1:11:38

The young attorney made some useless arguments,

1:11:40

and I almost felt sorry for it. And

1:11:42

then as expected, they brought up Hamilton's medical

1:11:44

issues to see if he could even stand

1:11:46

trial. hamilton was now in his late seventies and they

1:11:48

wanted to have him evaluate it first. This

1:11:50

is a normal stall tactic as

1:11:53

if the government is gonna go away.

1:11:55

I jumped in before the assistant United States attorney, Gary. And

1:11:57

I said, fine. If you wanna do

1:11:59

this, but it's

1:12:02

gonna occur after he's indicted. Then you guys can enter a

1:12:04

motion and let the judge decide, but

1:12:06

he will still be indicted first. I

1:12:09

said, there's no reason to delay this

1:12:11

indictment. Plus, we would also want to have separate medical evaluation of Hamilton, and

1:12:13

all this would require Hamilton to release

1:12:16

his medical

1:12:18

records. Well, the meeting ended. I had a strong feeling that

1:12:20

we would drop the false statement violation

1:12:22

and they would convince Hamilton to

1:12:25

plead guilty because they knew we had a very

1:12:27

strong case. But I also knew in

1:12:29

Hamilton's condition, in his age, he would

1:12:32

probably not serve prison time. I met

1:12:34

with the AUSA It did not take much, but he

1:12:36

agreed with me to present this case to the

1:12:38

grand jury. And on the last date possible

1:12:41

before my retirement, Not only that, I would also

1:12:44

present a separate case I had been

1:12:46

working on for indictment to the grand

1:12:48

jury, which was the subject

1:12:50

that I conducted a a cold call interview in Florida.

1:12:52

And after a while, he laid it

1:12:54

all out and admitted to everything, but

1:12:56

he kept delaying getting an attorney.

1:12:58

So I ended up in dining him.

1:13:01

which I said was the other

1:13:03

reason why I requested and received a one year extension to retire. Hamilton,

1:13:06

he defrauded someone

1:13:08

of more than two million. And because of

1:13:10

his age and his health, he didn't receive any type

1:13:15

of time But this that person defrauded someone

1:13:17

of five hundred thousand dollars

1:13:19

and ended up with

1:13:22

ten years in prison. Yes. That is

1:13:25

correct. Now this man that he defrauded was a senior

1:13:27

citizen, so that kicked in plus this subject to the case

1:13:29

didn't have a former US attorney defending

1:13:31

him. And you're right, hamilton

1:13:34

was in bad shape medically when I saw him. So I understood why he wasn't going to prison. A USA

1:13:36

Garrett was the assistant US

1:13:38

attorney on

1:13:39

both of these cases. Two

1:13:43

weeks prior to my retirement, I testified in the grand jury in both

1:13:45

of these cases knowing that I would get

1:13:48

a indictment

1:13:50

on both cases. After I testified, I waited outside the

1:13:52

grand jury room, waiting for AUSA Garrett

1:13:54

to come out and for us

1:13:57

to walk away. he came out and said

1:13:59

they want me back in

1:13:59

the grand jury room. I was shocked.

1:14:02

I thought, what questions could they possibly

1:14:04

have for me? What did I miss?

1:14:06

When I walked in, a USA Garrett

1:14:08

said to the grand jury, hey, this is

1:14:10

off the record. I want y'all to know

1:14:12

that special agent Camille is retiring in two

1:14:15

weeks due to his mandatory retirement. A USA Gear

1:14:17

went on to say that I SA

1:14:19

Campbell was an excellent

1:14:21

FBI agent and would be missed by both the FBI

1:14:24

and the United States attorney's office. That

1:14:26

was a great feeling I had. I

1:14:28

received the same message before

1:14:30

I retired from my SSA my ASAC and my SAT, especially

1:14:32

based on these cases that I chased

1:14:34

all the way to the very end.

1:14:37

Both of my Subjects in these two cases

1:14:39

were indicted and both pled guilty. After I

1:14:42

retired, I went to Hamilton Senancy and

1:14:44

I knew that he would walk in with some

1:14:46

type of support. I kinda thought he was also gonna be wearing

1:14:48

his colonel's uniform. He did have a walking

1:14:50

cane and he was helped through the courtroom.

1:14:53

I also expected he would not be sentenced

1:14:55

prison, but instead he was ordered to pay restitution back to the

1:14:58

Germans. He had to sell his home,

1:15:00

his cars,

1:15:02

his pension and Social Security checks would be

1:15:04

garnished and the money sent to the two

1:15:06

Germans. And after the case, I

1:15:09

did follow-up even though I was retired and

1:15:11

I saw that his home sold a

1:15:14

few months later. I knew that

1:15:16

he had to turn those assets over to

1:15:18

the Germans as part of a restitution.

1:15:20

And I also knew that two of

1:15:22

his cars were sold and was

1:15:24

told by the United States attorney's

1:15:26

office that Yes. His pension check and his Social

1:15:28

Security check were being garnished. Let's

1:15:30

just take a few

1:15:31

moments to

1:15:34

talk about the second case. Because I think it's interesting and

1:15:36

it gives us an idea of how

1:15:38

if you're lucky, you can have

1:15:41

a case, one of these cases that goes

1:15:43

a little bit quicker than a complex advanced

1:15:45

fee case and wire fraud

1:15:47

case that takes a

1:15:49

little bit more time. This second case that I

1:15:51

can give you a brief summary, it was

1:15:54

in two thousand and eighteen I

1:15:56

had received a complaint

1:15:58

from the victim

1:15:59

Dean Sparks alleging that Inman,

1:16:02

Najara, defrauded Sparks out of over five hundred thousand dollars in investment

1:16:04

scam that began

1:16:07

in two thousand twelve. This

1:16:09

continued to two thousand and sixteen. Sparks was retired. He was a

1:16:11

senior citizen. He was up in age. And all

1:16:14

he had was his retirement money

1:16:16

to live

1:16:19

on and he thought, well, let me invest this money so I can

1:16:21

make some money out of it and I don't

1:16:23

need to work. Sparks

1:16:27

wanted to invest approximately five hundred thousand dollars. And his

1:16:29

good friend that he worked with

1:16:31

suggested that he contact

1:16:34

his son-in-law, this nadjaro.

1:16:36

His son-in-law could invest the money

1:16:38

for him. And since Sparks did not know anybody else as far as

1:16:40

investments, any of the major

1:16:43

broker companies out there he

1:16:46

contacted Najjar and Najjar said, sure,

1:16:48

I can invest this money with you and

1:16:50

we can make you a lot of

1:16:52

money. Even though Najjar didn't have a

1:16:55

license, a broker's license, Sparks felt comfortable

1:16:57

with investing this money

1:16:59

with Najjarra. Each

1:17:01

month Najjar would send

1:17:03

him statements that his money increasing by a

1:17:05

large amount of money. But all

1:17:07

these statements were

1:17:10

just made up paperwork with fake numbers.

1:17:12

And every month, he would send that

1:17:14

to Sparks. And when Sparks wanted

1:17:17

all of his money turn, which would

1:17:19

have netted him an extra over three

1:17:21

hundred thousand dollars, Najjar made

1:17:23

all kinds of excuses why

1:17:25

he couldn't return that money. and that's

1:17:27

when sparks came to the FBI. When I got

1:17:29

this case, I was down

1:17:31

to just about a year

1:17:33

before I needed to higher. So I wanted to work this as

1:17:35

what we call a fast track case, which

1:17:37

means you have limited time. So I

1:17:40

immediately interviewed

1:17:42

Sparks and he explained that

1:17:44

he invested money with Najjarra. Initially,

1:17:46

it was a small amount. But

1:17:48

then when Najjar is sending

1:17:51

the statement after the initial investment, that money

1:17:53

increased rapidly on his statement.

1:17:55

So he thought, I'm gonna

1:17:57

invest the rest with Najjar

1:17:59

and

1:17:59

he sent all of the money which

1:18:02

totaled over five hundred thousand dollars. That money said in the account and each month

1:18:03

he would receive a statement

1:18:06

by email from Najara. In

1:18:09

that statement, it showed that his money

1:18:11

increased. After a while, Sparks wanted to get his money out of the account, but Najjar giving the

1:18:14

reasons why the money needed to

1:18:16

stay And

1:18:19

finally, he told him that somebody within the company had stolen

1:18:21

the money, but he would try to get

1:18:23

it back. The fact was is

1:18:25

that Najjar had stolen the entire

1:18:28

five hundred thousand dollars. I had

1:18:30

subpoenaed Najjar's bank records, and I had the forensic account to go through it,

1:18:32

and he basically had come through

1:18:34

the accounts and found out that

1:18:38

Najara was spending that money for

1:18:40

any and everything as small

1:18:43

as a coffee at

1:18:46

Starbucks or Walmart, and then he was taking trips

1:18:48

overseas. He had gone to a

1:18:50

cowboy's football game with the money.

1:18:52

Him and his family spent the five

1:18:54

hundred thousand dollars in one year and it was gone. That's

1:18:56

what I would call a fraud.

1:18:58

So now, of course, Sparks is

1:19:02

completely out of money he had move from his home, sell

1:19:04

his cars. He ended up

1:19:07

in a section eight

1:19:11

housing. and living off of a government Social Security check.

1:19:13

I tracked down Najjarra in

1:19:15

Florida. He had

1:19:17

left the Dallas area moved to Florida with his

1:19:19

wife and kids, and I had an

1:19:22

address in Florida. So after

1:19:24

the review of

1:19:26

his bank accounts, and after the forensic accountant

1:19:28

had put together a detailed list

1:19:30

of the money that he spent,

1:19:33

I flew to Florida I met up with

1:19:35

a Florida agent and we went

1:19:37

and attempted a cold call

1:19:40

interview of Sparks, but he

1:19:42

no longer lived at this residence.

1:19:44

but the people that were

1:19:46

living there knew of him. All they knew was that his wife was a

1:19:49

personal trainer at

1:19:51

a neighborhood workout facility.

1:19:54

Myself and the other agent thought this was

1:19:57

our only lead, so we set up

1:19:59

on the workout

1:19:59

facility. I spotted her vehicle

1:20:02

and we sat there for hours.

1:20:04

We didn't have a home. We didn't have an address

1:20:06

for him. We did not know where he left. So my only option was to try to follow her,

1:20:10

not get burned, and our surveillance and see if she would lead us

1:20:12

to the home. She eventually came out.

1:20:15

We followed her. It was

1:20:17

quite an event to stay up with her,

1:20:19

but she didn't pay attention that there was a car behind her. She went into

1:20:21

a neighborhood, we followed her, we pulled

1:20:23

up in the driveway, blocked

1:20:25

her vehicle in, I

1:20:28

jumped out, showed my credentials to her

1:20:30

through the window. She was on her cell phone, which obviously meant to me she was not paying attention

1:20:33

that she was

1:20:36

being followed I told her that I wanted to speak

1:20:38

to her husband. She let us inside, and he was sitting at the kitchen table. He was going

1:20:42

through a bunch of documents. we walked in, identified ourselves, and I told him

1:20:44

I wanted to talk to him about the money

1:20:46

that Sparks had invested with him. Of course,

1:20:49

he denied everything, said that the

1:20:51

money was still there, give

1:20:53

all kinds of excuses why I ain't gotten in the

1:20:55

money back. And then I dropped the work that our forensic accountant did

1:21:00

for us which had the details of where

1:21:02

every amount of money he had spent. I put it on the table and I said, you

1:21:06

go through it yourself. Well, he started thumbing through the pages. When he

1:21:08

got about halfway through, he stopped and

1:21:10

pushed himself back. He says, I

1:21:13

don't know what to do here. I said, I have everything

1:21:15

on you. I see where you sent money to your father-in-law,

1:21:17

your sister. I said, I can go speak

1:21:20

to them to see if they

1:21:22

were part of this. Well, that scaredy. He sat back and said, I don't know if I need an attorney.

1:21:24

I said, I can't make that decision for

1:21:26

you. That's a decision you have to make.

1:21:28

But I can tell you that

1:21:30

you will be indicted for this. And I

1:21:32

can also tell you that if you agreed to plead

1:21:34

guilty, I will make it known with the US attorney's office. And

1:21:37

hopefully, you will get

1:21:39

a lesser sentence. he

1:21:41

sat back, didn't know what to do, he kept

1:21:43

thinking about it, thinking it. that was just the two of

1:21:46

us in there looking at Dara,

1:21:50

His wife had left with the kids. He

1:21:52

sat there and I finally said, okay, we're

1:21:54

done here. You will be indicted. The next

1:21:56

thing that happens is the bunch of agents

1:21:58

are gonna show up outside your home, and they're gonna arrest you

1:21:59

and take your away, and you'll end up back

1:22:02

in Texas. I got up with my documents about

1:22:06

to leave the room, and he said, stop that's laid

1:22:08

everything out for us, told us about the

1:22:10

money, told us that he spent it, agreed

1:22:12

that everything that was in that

1:22:14

forensic account and document was true.

1:22:17

said he was gonna plead guilty.

1:22:19

We left as time was rolling.

1:22:22

An attorney called the prosecutor, AUSA

1:22:24

Garrett, said, I'm representing him. Garrett said,

1:22:26

okay. Your guy is gonna plead guilty. Later the attorney called Garrett

1:22:28

back and said, look, he's not paying me.

1:22:30

So I'm no longer gonna be his

1:22:34

attorney. I called this attorney and he confirmed

1:22:36

it, and then I called Najira, and

1:22:39

he said, I'm eventually gonna

1:22:41

get in Ernie, and I said, look, you're

1:22:43

just gonna get indicted. And I said, the indictment's gonna

1:22:45

happen in a few days. And you need to show

1:22:47

up to Sherman, Texas today

1:22:49

after the indictment and turn yourself into the Marshalls office. I said, if you're not there, I'm

1:22:51

gonna send agents to come pick you up. I said, but you

1:22:53

will be indicted. This has gone on

1:22:56

too long. That's

1:22:59

what happened. That's when I indicted him. At the

1:23:01

same time, I indicted Hamilton. He did show

1:23:03

up

1:23:03

in the chairman with

1:23:05

the marshals and myself, placed him under

1:23:07

arrest, He had his arraignment then he ended up pleading guilty. That's

1:23:09

to make a long story short, and he

1:23:11

was sentenced to

1:23:14

ten years in prison. And

1:23:15

that is kind of like the tale of two advanced

1:23:17

fee cases where you have

1:23:20

one that

1:23:22

involve a lot of time, a lot

1:23:24

of preparation, a lot of

1:23:26

international travel, just a very complex

1:23:29

investigation, and then you have another one that is also in

1:23:31

an advanced fee, wire fraud

1:23:36

case, where you're able to

1:23:38

accomplish so much by looking at bank records and talking

1:23:40

to the victim

1:23:43

and the subject. It's just

1:23:45

kind of interesting and one of the reasons why I wanted us to touch on both cases. And I

1:23:47

also think that we need

1:23:50

to recognize and to acknowledge

1:23:52

that the

1:23:55

outcomes were different. One,

1:23:57

where the subject stole

1:23:59

two million dollars and he

1:24:02

ended up

1:24:02

because of his health because

1:24:05

of his age and because he had a

1:24:07

really, really good

1:24:07

attorney ended up stealing two million

1:24:10

dollars but not serving

1:24:12

any present

1:24:14

time and then you have someone who

1:24:16

did not have a good attorney and ended up

1:24:18

getting ten years. What are your thoughts about that?

1:24:22

Well, obviously, like you pointed out, there

1:24:24

were different circumstances. The victim

1:24:27

and the five hundred

1:24:29

thousand dollar case was a

1:24:31

senior citizen. they sentence

1:24:32

differently when you have a senior citizen

1:24:34

that's a victim. And of course, this victim

1:24:38

lost everything. I think that was important for the judge to see that, and

1:24:41

that's why he got this I thought it was

1:24:43

a pretty large sentence of ten years.

1:24:45

I didn't have a problem

1:24:47

with Hamilton going prison with his condition.

1:24:49

Obviously, the judge was swayed and that didn't happen. But as

1:24:51

agents, that's kinda out

1:24:55

of our hands. And that's correct. And as I

1:24:58

had mentioned before with the two German victims, they were more worried about their money

1:25:01

than Hamilton going

1:25:03

to prison. Sparks on a najara to

1:25:05

go to prison. So the Germans somewhat got what they wanted, which was the

1:25:08

restitution and they'll

1:25:11

be paid by his Social Security and pension checks being

1:25:13

garnished every month. I really appreciate

1:25:16

you sharing those

1:25:18

case reviews with us it was

1:25:20

nice to be able to contrast and compare

1:25:23

the two. We're at the point where I asked my

1:25:27

standard question. When and why you joined the FBI? In my early

1:25:29

teens, I had fantasized becoming

1:25:31

an FBI agent actually

1:25:33

really never thought it

1:25:36

would happen everybody growing up wanted to be president of

1:25:38

the United States or astronauts or something like that during, you know, the nineteen seventies.

1:25:40

But I was

1:25:43

glued to watching a TV series called The

1:25:45

UnTouchables, and it ran from nineteen fifty nine to nineteen sixty three with Robert

1:25:48

Stack playing the lead character. It

1:25:50

was actually about the Department of

1:25:52

Treasury but

1:25:54

that's what got me interested in the FBI.

1:25:56

As I was growing up, I

1:25:58

later learned that my

1:25:59

dad was interested in becoming an

1:26:02

FBI agent And I had heard through him and my mom

1:26:04

that he actually applied for it, but

1:26:06

he failed the very first test,

1:26:09

which was your eye examination. you couldn't have

1:26:11

worse than twenty two hundred uncorrected vision.

1:26:13

And my dad failed that, so

1:26:15

his applicant process

1:26:18

stopped. I had forgot about that until many

1:26:20

many years later after I retired, I was

1:26:22

sitting down with my mom on the couch

1:26:24

and I was reading my father's love letters

1:26:27

to her and we were having fun with it. These in the nineteen fifties and he

1:26:29

mentioned in one of these love letters that he

1:26:31

was gonna become an FBI agent. I

1:26:33

tell you when I read that

1:26:35

I kinda got chills from it knowing that I was

1:26:38

able to accomplish my dad's dream. Was he alive when you became an

1:26:40

agent? Did he know

1:26:42

about it? What did he say?

1:26:44

My mom said, no, look, I'd only been

1:26:46

in five states in my entire life when they sent me through Quantica.

1:26:48

So nobody had left the family,

1:26:50

nobody had moved out of Dallas.

1:26:54

And when I got in and I left

1:26:56

for Quantico, my mom said my dad

1:26:58

just cried like a puppy. I knew he

1:27:00

was very proud of me. he passed

1:27:02

away in two thousand and three, so I had been an agent for, what,

1:27:07

almost fifteen years. So he

1:27:09

got to see me develop. Of course, I wish he was still alive to see my book.

1:27:11

My mom was still alive, but bad

1:27:14

bad shape with dementia. She

1:27:18

can barely remember me, but that's another story. That's basically what I've always wanted to do.

1:27:21

I honestly

1:27:24

didn't think I would get

1:27:26

in. I thought somehow maybe I fell through the cracks. But I had a great career and I think it was very

1:27:28

successful and I feel

1:27:31

very good about it.

1:27:33

It sounds like the FBI were

1:27:35

the lucky ones. So when did you

1:27:37

retire? And what are you doing now?

1:27:40

I retired end of August

1:27:42

twenty nineteen. And honestly, I'm not working. I don't want to work. I've had some great

1:27:44

offers, but I just

1:27:47

don't want to work. don't

1:27:49

have kids, so I didn't have to put

1:27:52

kids through college. I'm in the Dallas area and I

1:27:54

have hobbies. I travel to Europe two or three

1:27:56

times a year. I

1:27:58

love going to Europe. I just back few

1:27:59

my younger

1:28:04

days, studied in research World War II.

1:28:06

I'm a huge buff. And I only read the books written by soldiers, American

1:28:09

soldiers, German soldiers,

1:28:12

British soldiers, And then I'll

1:28:14

take the information I get out of these books. And when I travel Europe, I'll actually go to the battlefields. I'm

1:28:16

not talking about the

1:28:18

main

1:28:19

battlefields like battle bulge bastone,

1:28:22

all those. I actually go out there and

1:28:24

study it and research it, and I really have a good time.

1:28:26

Of course, I'd drag a girlfriend with me and we go

1:28:28

and run around Europe a lot. I also

1:28:30

tinker with my cars. I'm working

1:28:32

on my nineteen fifty one Packard convertible right

1:28:34

now. It's in excellent shape, and I'm

1:28:37

putting new carpet in it. I actually

1:28:39

collect vintage watches from the forties and

1:28:41

fifties. I keep myself busy. It seems

1:28:43

like by five o'clock, my day

1:28:45

is gone. got a dog and I do my

1:28:48

thing. Go to meet, trends out for

1:28:50

lunch or breakfast that are retired also,

1:28:52

and we'll spend two or three hours talking.

1:28:54

I have to say I'm so jealous because you're

1:28:56

doing retirement right. One

1:28:58

day, I will stop

1:29:01

all of this podcasting and

1:29:04

writing and blogging and

1:29:06

all that stuff and just

1:29:08

enjoy. About

1:29:09

two years before I retired, I was at my desk in the

1:29:11

office, and I was scrambling doing whatever, panicking, working on

1:29:13

something like usual, and

1:29:15

a retired agent who

1:29:18

you know, you've got a podcast with him. Rick

1:29:20

Velasquez, who used to sit behind me in

1:29:22

the squad. Rick and I are good friends.

1:29:24

We see each other about every couple of

1:29:27

weeks. We always give each other a hard time. Anyway, my point is

1:29:29

Rick came in. He was already retired. He

1:29:31

said, look, guy, when you retire, all

1:29:33

this stress is gonna be gone.

1:29:35

So just relax. said, that stress will be

1:29:37

gone. I said, Rick, I don't have stress. He says, you do have stress, and we argued it. I said, no,

1:29:39

I don't. That day I

1:29:42

retired, Jerry. It was like,

1:29:45

the world was lifted off my shoulders. And that's the way I feel now.

1:29:47

People tell me, look, you smile now. You never smile. Now I

1:29:50

loved my job, but you

1:29:53

retire retire, I think you'll feel

1:29:56

the stress gone. I hope so. I

1:29:58

do love what I'm doing now.

1:29:59

Yeah. Yeah. I

1:30:02

know that there is still another, a

1:30:04

whole another level of retirement that

1:30:06

I haven't reached one day I

1:30:08

will. Well,

1:30:09

what you're doing is great, so

1:30:11

I don't want you to stop it. I'm really enjoying your thank you. I

1:30:14

like to give my

1:30:16

guests the

1:30:18

last word. So, what would

1:30:20

you like to say? I know as much as

1:30:22

I in my early age as when

1:30:24

I wanted to be an FBI agent,

1:30:27

I would say really consider a career in the FBI.

1:30:29

I know what's going on now in the

1:30:31

news. It's not positive for

1:30:33

the FBI. but it is a great career and you

1:30:36

can make it what you want.

1:30:38

Not only was I an agent

1:30:40

investigating some complex cases

1:30:42

but I also took on collateral duties

1:30:44

that is just an opportunity for

1:30:46

you to make the job much

1:30:49

more whole I was on the FBI swap

1:30:51

team for eighteen years. I did undercover work all over the

1:30:53

country, and I was also, what they call, a phase two

1:30:56

interviewer, which I

1:30:59

did that for twenty three years interviewing FBI

1:31:01

applicants. So I had those

1:31:03

three collaborative duties going on