0:03

Welcome to episode

0:05

326 of

0:08

FBI Retired Case File

0:10

Review with Jerry Williams.

0:13

I'm a retired agent on a

0:16

mission to show you who the

0:18

FBI is and what the FBI

0:20

does through my books, my blog,

0:22

and my podcast case reviews with

0:25

former colleagues. Today

0:27

we get to speak to retired

0:29

agent Vito Roselli who served in

0:31

the FBI for 26 years. In

0:35

this episode, Vito reviews his

0:38

investigation of a bank robbery

0:40

conspiracy operated by a violent

0:43

West Philadelphia crew whose

0:45

members were responsible for

0:47

bank robberies in Pennsylvania

0:49

and South Jersey and

0:51

the vicious assault of an elderly

0:54

couple. Former Vito

0:56

subjects Chris Booker who

0:58

was convicted of multiple

1:00

violations including bank robbery

1:03

conspiracy and murder also

1:05

takes part in this case review.

1:08

Vito was assigned to the Philadelphia

1:10

division where he worked violent crimes

1:12

and fugitives as a case agent

1:14

for over 19 years

1:17

and as a program manager

1:19

and supervisor for seven years.

1:22

During his career, Vito dismantled drug

1:24

gangs with international ties and some

1:27

of the most violent bank robbery

1:29

crews in the Northeast region. As

1:32

a SWAT operator, Vito was

1:35

deployed to national and international

1:37

hot spots engaging in high

1:39

risk arrest operations including the

1:42

counter-terrorism mission following the 9-11

1:44

attacks. Vito

1:46

twice deployed to the Iraqi war zone in 2006

1:48

and 2008 where he embedded with a joint

1:53

special operations command. His

1:55

interview and intelligence gathering

1:57

skills contributed to the

2:00

destruction of the world's most

2:02

dangerous terror cells. As a

2:04

manager and leader, Vito mentored

2:07

hundreds of squad mates and

2:09

subordinates and represented the FBI

2:11

to foreign security agencies, law

2:14

enforcement departments nationwide, and the

2:17

private sector. Based on his

2:19

expertise, he was called in

2:21

for critical incidents at the

2:23

FBI's National Command Center, spearheading

2:25

high priority operations. After his

2:27

retirement, Vito moved to southeast

2:29

Florida and is working in

2:31

the cybersecurity field for Restaurant

2:33

Brands International. Chris Booker won

2:35

an appeal of his conviction

2:38

and was released from prison

2:40

in 2021. He is currently

2:42

a truck driver

2:45

with his CDL and the

2:48

author of over 40 urban

2:50

crime novels. Now

2:52

before we get to the case

2:54

review, I want to tell you

2:57

about a new podcast that Vito

2:59

Roselli is prominently featured. On There

3:01

and Gone South Street, he reviews

3:04

the biggest unsolved case of his

3:06

FBI career. The podcast covers the

3:08

disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard

3:10

Patron, who were last seen leaving

3:13

a bar in Philadelphia, never to

3:15

be seen again. Nearly two decades

3:17

later, they have never been found.

3:20

This is a detailed and thorough

3:22

look at the case from all

3:24

points of view. And there's also

3:26

a few sound bites from me

3:29

about the media coverage of this

3:31

case. One more thing,

3:33

as you are aware, this

3:36

podcast is apolitical and nonpartisan.

3:38

There should be no political

3:40

ads running on FBI retired

3:43

case file review. If you hear

3:45

any, please let me know ASAP.

3:48

In your podcast app's description of

3:50

this episode, you'll find links to

3:53

where you can join my reader

3:55

team to keep up with the

3:57

FBI and books, TV and movies.

3:59

Buy me a cup of coffee.

4:02

and learn more about me and

4:04

my nonfiction book, FBI Mists and

4:06

Misconceptions, and my two FBI crime

4:09

novels, Pay to Play and Greedy

4:11

Giffers, all available as ebooks

4:14

and paperbacks wherever books are

4:16

sold and audiobooks on

4:18

Audible and Spotify.

4:21

Thank you for your support. Now

4:23

here's the show. I

4:27

want to welcome my guest, retired

4:29

agent Vito Rosselli and Chris Booker.

4:31

Hey guys, how are you? Good,

4:34

yourself? I'm doing great. How about

4:36

you, Vito? Doing good, Jerry.

4:38

Thanks for the opportunity. Well, this

4:41

is really an opportunity for me

4:43

because most of the time I

4:45

am talking just to the FBI

4:47

agent who investigated a case, but

4:49

in this case we are going

4:51

to have an opportunity to actually

4:53

speak with one of your subjects.

4:56

Vito and I have known each

4:58

other for a very long time

5:00

working together in the Philadelphia office.

5:02

For some reason I gravitated to,

5:04

at the time, was called Squad

5:06

10, which was the violent crime

5:08

and bank robbery squad. So I

5:11

hung around that squad and the

5:13

people on that squad quite a

5:15

bit. You then also transferred over

5:17

to our Cherry Hill office, which

5:19

is in New Jersey, but is

5:21

also out of the Philadelphia division

5:23

covering Gloucester, Camden, and Salem County.

5:26

Did this case occur when you

5:28

were out there or was this

5:30

a Philadelphia case? So this was

5:32

a Philadelphia case when I was

5:34

still assigned over in Philly to

5:36

Squad 10. Okay. What we're gonna

5:38

do today is to talk about

5:41

one of Vito's cases that ended

5:43

up with Chris going to prison,

5:45

but it's also just a great

5:47

opportunity for us to talk and

5:49

to get to know how somebody

5:51

ends up on the other side

5:53

of the law and in

5:56

Chris's case how they make it

5:58

to the other side. kind

14:00

of a continuation of those generational

14:02

robbery crews from this West Philadelphia

14:04

section. That's how I started focusing

14:07

in on these bank robberies. They

14:09

had a particular MO that matched

14:11

what these other generations did, so

14:14

I kind of knew where to

14:16

start my investigation. So that's why

14:18

I jumped in, became the case

14:20

agent, and went on from there.

14:23

Tell us why you suggested that

14:25

we include Chris in this case

14:27

review. This booker came

14:30

later on in the investigation

14:32

and was a big part

14:34

in taking down the final

14:36

chapter of this organization, of

14:38

this enterprise. He also provides

14:41

a good perspective from how

14:43

they planned and executed the bank

14:46

robberies, the amount of effort and

14:48

forethought that set this particular crew

14:50

apart from others around the country.

14:53

He presents that aspect also he's

14:55

not from that crew. So he

14:58

brings another dynamic to show Mr.

15:00

Booker was, he'll tell you he was

15:03

one of the wild cards out in

15:05

West Philadelphia, a violent dude, to just

15:07

kind of emphasize the fact that these

15:10

armed robbery crews are violent. They're involved

15:12

not only in bank robberies, but they're

15:14

part of the underworld and the crime

15:17

culture in those neighborhoods. So it's not

15:19

just impacting the banks out in the

15:21

suburbs. They're bringing their violence and their

15:24

actions into those neighborhoods as well. So

15:26

he kind of brings that perspective, shows

15:28

a bank robbery as a subset of

15:31

a broader criminal effort by these crews.

15:34

I know that in the actual

15:36

investigation of the takeover bank robberies that

15:38

we're reviewing today, Chris didn't play a

15:41

part until one of the last

15:43

robberies. So Chris is going to sit

15:45

back and relax for a while, but

15:47

we'll hear from him later. Thedo,

15:49

where do you want to start the

15:52

case review? We'll start with when I

15:54

first started getting involved in this

15:56

particular crew. I had a pretty strong

15:58

informant base out. in West

16:00

Philadelphia and that was stemming from

16:03

the previous generation, as I mentioned,

16:05

of bank robbers. West Philly, the

16:07

12th District of Southwest Philly, the

16:09

18th and 19th Districts are really

16:11

where I was focusing my efforts.

16:13

I was hearing rumors about the

16:15

guys who used to steal the

16:17

cars for the old bank robbers

16:19

were now putting their own crew

16:21

together. So I was looking around

16:23

the region for any takeover

16:25

robberies that kind of fit the

16:27

MO, the Motorsau Barangay. So that's

16:29

bad weather, a getaway car that

16:31

was previously stolen, usually a couple

16:33

of weeks beforehand and dropped. And

16:35

then any witnesses that might see

16:37

the switch location where you jump

16:39

from the getaway car, the stolen

16:41

getaway car to switch cars. Those

16:43

are usually good cars and usually

16:45

there's two of them. I started

16:47

looking for robberies that fit that

16:50

pattern and I found one up

16:52

in Montgomery County in Wynwood that

16:54

occurred in June of 2003. That

16:57

was a fleet bank and I started

16:59

looking at the particulars of it and

17:02

thought, eh, it could certainly match the

17:04

MO I'm looking for and the street

17:06

information that I'm getting. It was cemented

17:08

for me when about three weeks later,

17:11

another bank gets hit right outside the

17:13

border up in Sheltonham, Pan-Asian bank. Both

17:15

banks were bad weather. The getaway car

17:17

was a stolen minivan. They like the

17:20

minivans because it's obviously easy access in

17:22

and out. The robbers driver can pull

17:24

right up to the bank and then

17:26

the door slides open. Your bad guys

17:29

jump out and head right into the

17:31

bank. The Sheltonham bank was a Pan-Asian

17:33

bank and that was right at closing

17:35

time. They missed the door. They locked

17:38

up. So they actually shot through the

17:40

door, shattered the glass, made their entry.

17:42

MOs, they round everybody up and they

17:44

put them in a vault and shut

17:46

the door. Now I start seeing the

17:49

pattern. I believe these two banks are

17:51

related. The real break came a week

17:53

later when they hit a citizens bank

17:55

way up in northeast Philadelphia. Same MO,

17:58

bad weather, had a minivan. I

28:01

mentioned a little earlier, these guys

28:03

are violent individuals. Yes, usually

28:05

they would steal a minivan off

28:07

a street. They wouldn't want to

28:10

raise concerns. They don't want any

28:12

witnesses. In this particular instance, I

28:14

would assume that they thought they were safe. They

28:17

were not near Philadelphia, the city environment.

28:19

They were over in New Jersey. Carney's

28:21

point is it's farmland. It's open. They

28:23

just made a mistake. They didn't listen

28:26

right here to their own rules. They

28:29

saw a minivan and they saw what was an

28:31

easy target and they thought they would take advantage.

28:33

Let's go rob a house, see what we can

28:36

get in there and grab the minivan. So that's

28:38

what they did. Now, getting

28:40

back to how the story was

28:42

that Mr. Robinson had died during

28:44

the assault was that the investigators

28:47

from Salem County Prosecutor's Office in

28:49

Carney's Point, New Jersey, they did

28:51

a fantastic job. They

28:54

had no idea that this was

28:56

the start of a bank robbery

28:59

conspiracy. They just had a home

29:01

invasion where the 72-year-old Mrs. Robinson

29:03

was sexually assaulted. Both

29:06

were assaulted and their minivan was

29:08

stolen at gunpoints. They had their

29:10

guns out. They did an excellent

29:12

job in their canvas. They talked

29:14

to this security guard. Her name

29:16

was Sue Pederson. It was very

29:18

observant. When this

29:20

was happening, I approached this pickup truck and here's

29:23

the tag and it was a rental car. So

29:26

they followed up on the rental and they saw that he

29:28

rented it in his real name and he left a cell

29:30

phone number. Wow. So

29:34

their investigation started again with that

29:36

cell phone. They got the cell

29:38

phone. They got historical records. They

29:41

then got a local wiretap on

29:43

that cell phone and then they

29:45

said, all right, let's go tickle

29:48

the conversation. So they hit up

29:50

Mr. Jones and they said,

29:52

yeah, you were in this vicinity. At

29:54

the time, there was a home invasion

29:57

and the old man got killed and

29:59

they wanted to see how that would

30:01

generate conversation. sure enough it did. He

30:03

calls Jenkins and Humbert. That's how they

30:06

get identified. Long story short they arrest

30:08

all three for the home invasion and

30:10

the carjacking and the assaults. They lock

30:13

them up. That's where I come in. I

30:15

find out that, all right, they were there

30:18

to rob a bank. I look back and

30:20

when I start getting a look at the

30:22

cell tower information, I see

30:24

the same pattern that Jenkins

30:26

and Humbert's phones were in

30:29

this Penn's Grove area the previous

30:31

couple of weeks. So I say, okay, they're

30:33

obviously together. They're calling each other. They're in

30:35

the same sector that's bouncing off the same

30:37

sector from the cell tower. What banks are

30:40

there? I find a bank. I see that

30:42

the bank was robbed way back in 1990

30:44

and they got close

30:46

to a quarter million dollars out of it.

30:49

So a nice haul. And then saying, all

30:51

right, I look at how that bank was

30:53

done and it was the same exact way.

30:55

I give these guys a lot of credit

30:57

for being organized, but on the other hand,

30:59

that organization kind of helped me

31:01

identify the previous bank, also helped me

31:04

to corroborate the fact that they were

31:06

there for the bank robbery. That previous

31:08

bank was a stolen minivan, was dropped

31:10

in the nearby supermarket parking lot, was

31:12

done on a day of bad weather.

31:15

With that, I was able to approach

31:17

the US attorney here in the Eastern

31:19

District of Pennsylvania, the attempted bank robbery,

31:21

even though it happened in New Jersey,

31:23

the conspiracy starts in the Eastern District

31:26

of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. So I set

31:28

up a meeting with the Salem

31:30

County prosecutor and the investigators

31:32

and they were fantastic. What

31:34

a great group of professionals.

31:36

What I needed to make

31:38

the broader case were the

31:40

details of that incident to

31:43

bolster the investigation on the other

31:45

three robberies in Pennsylvania. I needed

31:47

to adopt the New Jersey case

31:49

as an attempted bank robbery and

31:52

a bank robbery conspiracy and the

31:54

carjacking and so forth to strengthen

31:56

the overall case. Same MO, talk

31:58

about the cell phone. And

32:01

in incorporating their charges in

32:03

New Jersey, does that include

32:05

the assault and the sexual

32:07

assault? No. So

32:09

the bank robbery, those would be enhancements,

32:11

would not be a separate charge. So

32:14

those are charged as enhancements. So basically,

32:16

it's the statutes. You have a point

32:18

system where depending on violence, the number

32:21

of victims, the number of laws, those

32:23

points get ended up and you come

32:26

out with your sum total at the

32:28

end, what the guidelines would be for

32:30

that particular crime based on what happened

32:33

during that crime. So that's how it

32:35

was incorporated into the federal statute and

32:37

ultimately our indictment. But does Mr. and

32:40

Mrs. Robinson get the justice that they're

32:42

due? Yep, absolutely. Like

32:44

I said, Mrs. Robinson, she has since

32:46

passed away, God bless her soul. She

32:48

was 5 foot 2, 100 pounds soaking

32:51

wet, but tough as nails. They go

32:53

through that in her twilight years. And

32:55

then Mr. Robinson, we couldn't use him

32:57

because he was full blown dementia. He

32:59

didn't know where he was and then

33:01

he just eventually, unfortunately, died. So Mrs.

33:04

Robinson, one of our key witnesses. What

33:06

happens is we work with Salem

33:09

County. They graciously agree to withdraw

33:11

the guilty pleas from these individuals

33:13

in order for us to adopt

33:15

the case federally and charge it

33:18

as a conspiracy to commit armed

33:20

bank robbery. We also

33:22

had the car jacking in and then

33:24

the enhancements for the home invasion and

33:26

your souls and so forth. Elements

33:28

of those particular violent acts we can

33:30

include in the elements of our case

33:32

when we present it to the jury.

33:35

As I mentioned, Mr. Robinson was full

33:37

blown dementia. Mrs. Robinson, we of course

33:40

went to her because at this point

33:42

they were pleading she didn't have to

33:44

testify in court. Now

33:46

she would have to testify in court. She was more than

33:48

willing to do that. One

33:50

thing I'll mention also, this was big

33:52

news in Salem County. That was a

33:54

very quiet region of New Jersey and

33:56

this was big news for them. They

33:58

got a lot of press when it

34:00

happened. That's such a violent thing. that

34:02

could happen. They got a lot of

34:04

good coverage for the county prosecutor's office

34:06

in Carney's point. They were the heroes

34:08

for solving this case in the way

34:11

they did it. And to be willing

34:13

to give that up was a good

34:15

compliment to their character desire to see

34:17

the bigger picture. Ultimately, we charged them

34:19

with that conspiracy. We present to the

34:21

judge the previous robbery, how the MO

34:23

is the same. We go to trial.

34:25

The trial is separated, it's

34:27

bifurcated. So Jones winds up

34:29

pleading and cooperating federally. Jenkins

34:31

and Humbert go to trial.

34:33

They're separated, bifurcated. So there's

34:36

one trial for Jenkins, one

34:38

trial for Humbert. Jenkins, unfortunately,

34:40

we had to do that

34:42

three times. One time there

34:44

was an issue with the jury instruction.

34:46

He gets convicted. The issue with the

34:48

jury instruction, we had to retry it.

34:50

Mrs. Robinson had to testify in all

34:53

three. The second time there was a

34:55

hung jury. Again, Mrs. Robinson had to

34:57

testify about the home invasion and the

34:59

assault. And then finally, he's convicted. She

35:01

testifies again. Humbert goes to trial and

35:03

he decides to go pro se and

35:06

he represents himself. I've had

35:08

a lot of trials. A lot of

35:11

my cases went to trial. Some of

35:13

them were more involved than others. Good

35:15

memories on the whole bunch of them.

35:17

But this trial, when Humbert was cross-examining

35:20

Mrs. Robinson on the stand, he's talking

35:22

to her. Keep in mind that during

35:24

the home invasion, she never sees him

35:26

because he has a mask and she's

35:29

facedown on a bed while he's raping

35:31

her from behind. He then decides to

35:33

take a hairspray bottle and insert it

35:35

into her vagina thinking that's going to

35:38

kill his DNA. So he not

35:41

only sexually assaults, he takes the assault

35:43

suit with that hairspray bottle. He's there

35:46

cross-examining Mrs. Robinson. And we do have

35:48

DNA. That's pretty strong evidence. But nonetheless,

35:50

he's cross-examined saying that you can't identify

35:52

me as that individual. And she stands

35:55

up while five foot two of or

35:57

stands up and points the finger and

35:59

a very dramatic voice says, it was

36:02

you, you were taunting me the whole

36:04

time. That was one of the moments

36:06

I'll never forget. She recognized

36:08

his voice. Yeah, recognized his voice because

36:10

he's talking to her the whole time

36:13

while he's raping her and talking to

36:15

her while he's doing a cross-examination. I

36:17

just couldn't imagine in her 70s, five

36:20

foot nothing, having the guy that raped her

36:22

while her husband's getting beat and stuffed into

36:24

a bathtub, having the courage to stand up

36:26

and get her day of redemption. And just

36:29

point at him. It was like a

36:31

Perry Mason moment. It was fantastic. So anyway,

36:33

he gets convicted. Finally,

36:37

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37:08

go back to the other robberies over

37:10

in Pennsylvania. Because Jenkins and Jones are

37:13

not part of these other robberies, there's

37:15

different members of the crew, and for

37:17

other legal reasons, those trials are put

37:19

together. So the New Jersey incident was

37:22

handled by itself in the Eastern District.

37:24

And then we charged the other three

37:26

bank robberies in the Eastern District. That's

37:29

the Pan-Asian Bank in Shellmaham, Fleetwood Bank

37:31

up in Wynwood, and the Citizens Bank

37:33

in Philadelphia. Those all happened over the

37:36

summer of 03. While

37:38

we're investigating the Carnies Point

37:40

incident, which actually happened first,

37:43

I'm not sure if I mentioned it happens on May 27, 2003,

37:46

the other three banks over Southeast

37:48

Pennsylvania, they started in July, pretty

37:50

much June to July. From continued

37:53

discussions with our co-operator, Mr. Patterson,

37:55

I identify and am able to

37:57

charge a couple of the other...

37:59

individuals, they've evolved into different banks,

38:01

and they cooperate. I start putting

38:03

together a picture of the breadth

38:05

of this enterprise, of this crew,

38:07

that there's a whole another group

38:09

that a guy by the name

38:11

of Ms. or Marcel Harper, who

38:13

was good buddies with Mr. Humbert,

38:15

was training and sending out to

38:17

do other banks. So now,

38:20

with this information, I start targeting

38:22

this other crew. We go to

38:24

trial on the three banks in

38:26

Southeast Pennsylvania, and one thing I'll

38:28

mention was actually from pretty

38:30

reliable source information. I hear that Mr.

38:33

Harper and Mr. Humbert were the ones

38:35

that did that bank in Pensgrove, New

38:37

Jersey, way back in 1990.

38:40

Now, I start focusing on Harper, who just

38:42

finished a 10-year stint in the state.

38:44

That's why those bank robberies didn't continue

38:46

through the mid-90s, because he was locked

38:48

up, as was Mr. Humbert, for unrelated

38:50

crimes. I think Harper was in on

38:53

other robberies. Humbert, I think, same thing

38:55

on other robberies and possibly assaults. They're

38:57

in state custody. They get out, they

38:59

go right back into business, put their

39:01

crews back together, and start their bank

39:03

robbery in a press. We go

39:05

to trial on Humbert on the banks that

39:07

summer of 03, and

39:09

then I start looking for similar

39:12

banks after the summer of 03.

39:14

And that's where I identify a

39:16

bank down in Delaware, another bank

39:18

out in Brookhaven, the Citizens Bank

39:20

in Brookhaven, and Origins Bank down

39:22

in Delaware. The reason I identified

39:24

the one in Delaware is because

39:27

a couple of my cooperators started

39:29

talking about how Humbert and Harper

39:31

have this other crew that they've

39:33

recruited. They're music promoters, and they

39:35

call themselves spoiled spenders. Well, in the

39:37

Artisan Bank, there's a witness in a

39:39

nearby apartment complex in Wilmington, Delaware, that

39:42

saw a bunch of individuals jump from

39:44

one car, and a couple of those

39:46

individuals get into a custom van, a

39:48

wrapped van. They remember that there were

39:50

a bunch of music notes on it

39:52

and something to the effect of, what's

39:54

the spoiled spenders, but it was close

39:56

enough for us, and okay, bingo, that's

39:58

it. Start looking at... that, start

40:00

identifying the individuals responsible for those

40:02

robberies. And there were a couple

40:04

of robberies, but the ones where

40:07

I had good evidence, where the

40:09

MO was the same, whereas the

40:11

citizens in Brookhaven and the artisans

40:13

in Delaware. And that's where Mr.

40:15

Booker kind of comes into play.

40:17

So Chris gets recruited for the

40:19

robbery in Brookhaven and the citizens

40:22

bank. That would be

40:24

a good point to bring Chris in.

40:26

So Chris, you're joining the bank robbery

40:28

investigation at this point. Had you ever

40:30

done a bank robbery before? And what

40:33

made you say yes, when they asked

40:35

you to take part? I've never done

40:37

a bank robbery before. It's like I

40:39

said, I used to arrive, local people,

40:42

drug dealers, no stores or nothing like

40:44

that. So when it came to me,

40:46

you know, it was more like a

40:48

challenge, I guess, is you're scared, is

40:51

you look for this? All right,

40:53

yeah, I'm built for it. Let's get

40:55

to it. But as the process was

40:57

going on, I thought they

41:00

was going to change their mind or

41:02

they was faking. Oh,

41:04

they was for real. Went through the

41:06

whole rehearsals. We had rehearsed at

41:08

this location where it was, you know,

41:10

a little open and they had set

41:13

up some things to make it seem

41:15

like the inside of the bank did

41:17

the little rehearsals and all that. And

41:19

I'm just like, Oh, this this

41:21

for real. So waited. Then

41:24

I got the phone call. It's go

41:26

time. I'm like, you sure? I

41:28

just got over there was a great back

41:30

out. I'm like, all

41:32

right, let's go. Everything was

41:35

broken down. Like this is this

41:37

is what it is. Took precautions,

41:40

masked up, gloved up. Don't touch that

41:42

no cough on anything. Don't

41:44

scratch your hair, things of that nature. So

41:47

this was the day of it. Remember, literally

41:49

got out the car. We all went to

41:51

the bank, three outs into

41:54

the bank. Everybody did a job. One

41:56

was to hit the counter. The other was

41:59

to I was clear to the

42:01

patrons from the lobby to get them all

42:03

together. My job was to

42:05

cover the door and make sure nobody comes in

42:08

or goes out nervous. I

42:10

went clean off of my job. I

42:12

didn't even do my job fully because

42:14

once we got to the bank, I

42:16

went straight and helped out with getting

42:19

the people in the lobby together. It

42:21

was a rush, one that I never felt,

42:23

dealing drugs or robbing people.

42:26

This was a different kind of rush. Was

42:29

it a rush that you enjoyed? No,

42:32

it was a scared rush. Afterwards,

42:34

it was like a, oh

42:37

snap, I really did that. I really just

42:39

robbed a bank. It got away with it.

42:42

And it was like, I don't know if I

42:44

could do it again. Maybe if I

42:46

had to, it was like something different

42:49

than everything that I've done

42:51

before. All right, let's

42:53

get back to the story. Tell us more. What happened

42:55

at that point? Again, we're going

42:58

through a finalizing the investigation of the

43:00

other three banks that Humbert was involved

43:02

in. That's the Wynwood Bank, the Citizens

43:04

Bank, and the Pan-Asian Bank at Shell

43:06

Mayhem. Digging through junkyards, finding

43:09

ski masks that Humbert was wearing, and

43:11

he dropped in this junkyard. I'm able

43:13

to go back and get DNA from

43:16

Humbert all for that trial. Meanwhile,

43:18

starting to build the case on

43:21

and identify who's involved in these

43:23

other banks. I know who Marcel

43:25

Harper is at this point. I

43:27

don't know who the other folks

43:29

are. Because my co-operators, they were

43:31

like a separate sub-crew of the

43:34

Humbert-Hauper enterprise. They didn't know those

43:36

guys other than their music promoters.

43:39

Ultimately, we convict Humbert

43:41

for the three banks.

43:44

Humbert was also convicted over for

43:46

a Jersey conspiracy attempted robbery that

43:48

we discussed earlier. And

43:50

then I'm trying to identify who these individuals

43:52

are. Ultimately, I find the van, start building

43:54

the case, identifying who's associated with this music

43:56

producing label. but then I get a break.

43:59

I didn't know it at the time. I

44:01

get a call from one of my informants

44:03

and they said, hey, this guy by the

44:05

name of Chris Booker just killed a dude

44:07

out in Darby. He was a drug robber

44:09

and he shot over and he's hiding out

44:11

over in Atlantic City. So I reach out

44:14

to a couple of the detectives that I

44:16

knew pretty well, reached out to them and

44:18

said, hey, did you have a murder? And

44:20

sure enough, they had one broad daylight where

44:22

the guy was just slumped and left right

44:24

on the sidewalk. And I said, well, I

44:27

think your guy is this guy, Chris Booker,

44:29

and he's hiding out in Atlantic City. Now

44:31

this is all around October of 04 when

44:34

that murder happens. We're just

44:36

finishing up on the trial of Humbert

44:38

for the banks of Pennsylvania. And I'm

44:40

still building my case against the spoiled

44:43

spenders. And I don't know Chris Booker,

44:45

his name has not come up, but

44:47

it did come up because of the

44:49

drug related murder. And the fact he

44:51

was hiding in Atlantic City. They then

44:53

find out that he gets arrested in

44:55

Atlantic City with some drugs, crack cocaine,

44:58

which was what was taken and a

45:00

couple of guns. Robert L. H had

45:28

committed this crime, went on a run.

45:30

Me going on a run, I found

45:32

myself in New Jersey, and I decided

45:35

to set up shop there during the

45:37

course of that the universe. God,

45:39

what I would say, said that I

45:41

had enough. And I was

45:44

incarcerated for having two firearms in my

45:46

room. Mae came by, cleaned my room

45:48

up one day and found two firearms.

45:50

She told the manager, manager called his

45:53

friend, who was a police officer. They

45:55

came to the room and waited for

45:57

me to come back and lock me

45:59

up with two guns and

46:01

for what I had on my possession,

46:03

which was a nice amount of crack

46:05

cocaine at the time. During that time

46:07

I was thinking about the person who

46:09

I was with. I was with a

46:11

young lady at the time who was

46:13

my girlfriend at the time. When I

46:16

did get incarcerated for it, I was

46:18

going to just take my keys just

46:20

as long as they would let her

46:22

go. And this is something that I

46:24

explained when he came to see me.

46:26

And when the homicide detectives came

46:28

to see me, I just told them,

46:30

look, I'm just taking my case that's

46:33

here with the drugs and

46:35

y'all just have to let her go.

46:37

In doing so, Philadelphia doubted the case,

46:39

the drugs and the guns, the

46:42

federal system they doubted the case.

46:44

My drug case was now federal.

46:46

I explained the same thing to

46:48

Vito during the interview that I'm

46:51

gonna take my case and just

46:54

make sure that she get let

46:56

go. And it happened. I took

46:58

my case, she got

47:00

out. At that point I decided to change

47:03

my mind. I said, the hell with it.

47:05

Take my chances and trial. And while I

47:07

was incarcerated and I was down the federal

47:09

building, ran into a couple of guys who

47:11

was good with legal work and things of

47:14

that nature. One in particular, the one I

47:16

shouldn't have trusted but did. He helped me

47:18

out with some legal issues. He had some

47:20

good points with illegal search and seizures and

47:22

things of that nature. And it made me

47:25

confident that you can beat this. You can

47:27

beat this in a suppression hearing. They shouldn't

47:29

have never went into your hotel room.

47:31

They have no accident circumstances going

47:33

into your hotel room. So I'm

47:35

like, okay, I get the guns

47:38

thrown out. I'm scot-free. And that's

47:40

me thinking about not just the

47:42

hotel case, but also my homicide

47:44

case because one of the weapons

47:47

was the murder weapon. So I'm

47:49

like, man, if I can get

47:51

these suppressed federally, then there's no

47:53

case on me at all.

47:56

There's nothing anybody can stand on because

47:58

this is the real evidence. right here.

48:01

I really appreciate you acknowledging

48:03

the victim, but we probably

48:05

need to say something about

48:07

the murder. Can you tell

48:09

us a little bit or whatever you're able to

48:12

tell us at this time about this murder that

48:14

you were involved in? This murder

48:16

that I was involved in at the time, you

48:18

know, I was going through some financial hardships. One

48:21

of the things I used to do, I used

48:23

to, I used to rob

48:25

drug dealers, you know, it were an easier target.

48:28

And this is something that

48:30

I had did this particular day. This

48:33

time I was just like I said, I

48:35

was going through some financial hardships and picked

48:37

the sort of say the

48:39

easiest drug dealer that I could in order

48:41

to get what I wanted at the time.

48:44

So unfortunately, you know, he

48:46

was close, something that was

48:48

unexpected from, from me, you

48:50

know, to him. And that's pretty

48:53

much what it was. So

48:55

you were trying to rob him of his

48:58

drugs and money. And during

49:00

that, you ended up shooting and killing

49:02

him. Right. Still

49:04

today, it's hard to talk about just

49:06

thinking of my actions, you know, it's,

49:09

it's him as well, but it's more

49:11

so like the actions that, you know,

49:13

I took to get buddy. I'm

49:15

sweating now just thinking about the foolishness that

49:17

I was on around that time. And would

49:19

you say that was one of the things

49:22

that helped you walk away and step away

49:24

from that life? Definitely. It

49:26

was the, the

49:29

biggest mistake in my life. And the

49:31

most thing that I would regret for

49:34

the remainder of my life, it's not

49:36

something that goes away. It's not something

49:38

to live with on a day to

49:40

day basis, because I think about it

49:43

every day, think about my actions every

49:45

day. And I think about

49:47

the life that was lost every

49:49

day for nothing. You

49:52

know, that's something that I live with

49:54

every day and it motivates me to

49:56

stay away from that lifestyle. I'm

49:59

going to let Vito, talk about

50:01

what happened after he learned that

50:04

you had been arrested in Atlantic

50:06

City. And then we'll come back

50:08

to you to talk about what

50:10

you're doing now. Vito,

50:12

let's get back to the case

50:14

review and tell us how the

50:17

rest of the investigation proceeds. All

50:20

right, so I get this information. I

50:22

relayed to Darby. Darby goes out. They

50:24

go hit up Mr. Booker in the

50:26

Atlanta County Correctional Facility. And

50:28

she doesn't talk to him, but he does say, hey,

50:30

I've got bank robbery information. I'm only going to talk

50:32

to the FBI. So they give

50:34

me a call and they say, hey, this

50:37

guy wants to talk about bank robbery information.

50:39

I say, all right, whatever. When you first

50:41

sit down with him, what's your impression of

50:43

this first time that you've met? Could you

50:46

talk about that? Sure. So

50:48

the first time I meet Chris, again, my

50:50

Darby detective buddies reach out to me. So

50:52

I go out and talk to him. And

50:54

I have no idea what bank robbery he's

50:56

going to talk about. But I do know

50:58

that they got two guns there. And one

51:01

of those guns is the murder weapon. And

51:03

I learned a lot about Mr. Booker. And

51:05

he's got a well-known tough reputation on the

51:07

street. So I wasn't quite sure what to

51:09

expect. I go over to Atlantic City Correctional

51:11

Facility. They set me up. You

51:13

sit down. He's a big dude. Chris, you got

51:15

some size to him. So he's an opposing dude.

51:17

I can see this guy's definitely going to have

51:19

some rep and he's got the actions to back

51:21

it up. I was very impressed.

51:23

He was respectful, well-spoken, clearly intelligent, and had

51:26

a little charisma to him. You got to

51:28

understand, he ran a block out in West

51:30

Philly. Meaning he ran the drugs. He had

51:32

people working for him. People were putting themselves

51:34

out there. You have to have some charisma,

51:37

some leadership skills to be able to organize

51:39

and run a block and earn the respect

51:41

of people to do so they do what

51:43

you tell them. He had that. So

51:46

I was impressed with Mr. Booker. So I

51:48

sit down with Chris. Again, it was

51:50

a good conversation, not an issue. It

51:52

was very forthcoming with his involvement in

51:54

the bank robbery and also admitting to

51:57

the guns and drugs. In the back.

51:59

my head, I'm knowing. He doesn't know

52:01

that I know what happened with the

52:03

murder and that gun is the murder

52:05

gun. Even if we adopt it, the

52:07

locals are still going to run the

52:10

ballistics and match it to the murder.

52:12

But to adopt the case, he starts

52:14

talking about the bank. I'm trying to

52:16

hide my excitement. And I start going

52:18

through my book with the details of

52:21

the bank. That actually helps me further

52:23

the investigation and identify the other individuals

52:25

through them to phone records and just

52:27

saying, okay, who does this guy Chris

52:29

Booker, who is he associated with? And

52:31

that's how I identify this guy, Big

52:34

Nasty, was his street name, goes by

52:36

name of Bernie Tyndale, big football-sized dude,

52:38

Manny G. I started identifying them. They

52:40

were associated with the same general neighborhood

52:42

in Westfield. Mr. Booker starts talking to

52:45

jailhouse lawyers, is another inmate who knows

52:47

the law or tells other people they

52:49

know the law and they make money

52:51

off it. They'll charge people, say, hey,

52:53

I'll look at your case, see what

52:55

you can do. Either they don't trust

52:58

their attorneys or they want to double

53:00

check their attorneys or see what other

53:02

options there are. And they talk to

53:04

these jailhouse attorneys and Booker, one of

53:06

these jailhouse attorneys, got in his ear

53:09

and starts convincing Chris that he can beat

53:11

the case. And Jersey talking about how it

53:13

was a bad search and to get the

53:15

guns tossed and he's thinking he could beat

53:17

the murder rap now. And he decides to

53:20

go to trial on the guns and drugs.

53:22

The best part, Jerry, is the guy he

53:25

was talking about, the jailhouse attorney, and what

53:27

happened when they put him in the cell

53:29

together. Yeah,

53:32

I was on my way to trial. No, I was

53:34

on my way to a hearing. My

53:37

lawyer kept telling me that they got a

53:39

new witness. They got a new witness. I'm

53:41

like, who is it? How's it been? He

53:43

was like, do you know a guy named

53:45

David? As soon as he said

53:47

his first name, I just was like, oh my goodness.

53:50

Yeah, that's the person who helped me win my legal work.

53:53

My lawyer said, told you not to talk to

53:55

these guys. He's now a star witness on your

53:57

case. He just made my

53:59

job. harder. So I'm

54:02

going to an hearing trying to

54:04

get some evidence suppressed and I was

54:06

trying to get David Blickley's statement

54:09

suppressed as well. I'm on my way

54:11

to the older cell. They open up

54:13

the older cell door. I go in.

54:16

Guess who's sitting there? David Blickley. Just

54:19

sitting there. He looked up at

54:21

me and his jaws just

54:23

dropped and he immediately started trying to

54:25

explain. I didn't say anything. I'm like,

54:27

what are you talking about? I'm trying

54:29

to keep them cool. So this guard

54:32

closed the door. So once the door

54:34

was closed, I commenced to putting the

54:36

beating on him. I was trying

54:38

my best to do as much damage to

54:40

him as I possibly could in a short

54:42

period of time that I had. I broke

54:45

his nose or something like that. Beat him

54:47

up pretty bad. I've laid him clean up

54:49

his own blood. When the guard came

54:51

by, the guard looking at him on the

54:53

ground wiping up his own blood, they call

54:56

the rest of the staff, take me out

54:58

to cell and not sure I think

55:00

he went to the hospital after that. And

55:03

he was saying to be a star witness on the case.

55:05

And it was just a coincidence that you

55:08

were put in the same cell. It

55:10

was a mistake on the guard's behalf.

55:12

He's supposed to have a separation on

55:15

me. Once he's earned as a witness,

55:17

he's supposed to be separated from and

55:19

I'm quite sure that the prosecutor put

55:22

a separation on us. Once he had the

55:24

information he had from David they

55:26

supposed to put a separation on us

55:28

immediately. So we can't be in contact

55:30

with each other at all. Can't be

55:32

on the same floor. We can't be

55:34

in the same holding cell, none of

55:37

that. So quite sure he had

55:39

a separation put on us, but the guards

55:41

must not have been aware of it. And

55:43

they just so happened to just put me

55:45

in that cell. Wow. Did

55:47

you get any additional charges or

55:49

any issues? I had got six

55:52

months in a hole, which actually turned

55:54

into, I was in a hole for

55:56

almost two years behind that.

55:58

They gave me. to assault a

56:01

federal witness, gave me six months in

56:03

a hole. I wasn't charged

56:05

additionally in the federal court for it,

56:07

but jail charged me and took a

56:09

lot of my good time, which I

56:11

didn't even have none at the time,

56:13

but they took my phones and my

56:15

visits from me for a year and

56:18

I end up standing there like my

56:20

whole time going back and forth to

56:22

trial. This is the hole in detention

56:24

center and the detention center and what

56:26

does that mean? It's funny because we

56:28

call the hole as segregated. You separate

56:30

from everyone else. It's 23 and 1.

56:33

You're on yourself for 23 hours, out

56:36

for an hour. This is where people who

56:38

cause trouble go to can't be around nobody.

56:41

Any regrets? For David Blickley? No,

56:44

sorry to say. I got to put

56:47

my regrets where they need to be.

56:49

For him, I can't put no regret.

56:51

Only regret me relying on him to

56:53

help me out because that was the

56:56

whole thing that I was looking for

56:58

was help. He disguised himself as somebody

57:00

who wanted to help me and somebody

57:03

who cared about my situation and wanted

57:05

to help get me out or help

57:07

get me the best result that I

57:10

can get. I entrusted

57:12

him with it. I explained to him

57:14

things about my case that I wouldn't

57:16

explain to nobody else. I entrusted him

57:18

with that information and he betrayed me.

57:21

That was a hurtful feeling to be

57:23

betrayed that way in that manner. Ate

57:25

all my money to help me with

57:27

this issue, just turned around and hit

57:30

me on the butt. Yeah,

57:32

so basically what happens

57:34

is David Blickley,

57:37

he reaches out through the

57:39

prison until I had

57:42

a good relationship with them and they had this

57:44

guy talking about a guy giving up his bank

57:46

robbery details and they reached out to me and

57:48

it happened to be my case. So I went

57:50

and talked to him and sure enough, everything Chris

57:52

would feed him, he was feeding me. Typically,

57:55

the deal is you don't

57:57

put a separation order in until you have

57:59

to. do because once the

58:01

separation order is put in, then the

58:03

defendants, the subject knows, damn,

58:05

this guy's cooperating on me because they put a

58:08

separation on. So that's probably

58:10

what happened. We put the

58:12

separation order in, they didn't get it into the

58:14

system and they didn't know you're supposed to be

58:16

separated. I remember it was a hearing, I'm sitting

58:18

there with a bunch of hustling around in the

58:21

courtroom. I knew something was up and sure enough,

58:23

they said, yeah, your star witness just got his

58:25

ass beat. And Ligli is the one that

58:27

convinced him to go to trial. Yeah, I

58:29

forgot about that. Yeah. I

58:32

continue the investigation and I start

58:35

looking at the spoiled spenders and

58:37

identifying who they are. There I

58:39

start getting informants, getting

58:41

as much details, surveillance, all the typical

58:43

investigative stuff to try and build that

58:45

case against the other individuals. Keep in

58:48

mind, I don't really have a cooperator

58:50

that's fingering them. Okay, Chris gave himself

58:52

up and then he decided to go

58:54

to trial anyway, so couldn't use that.

58:56

But I build the case, if I

58:58

remember right, I think we arrest Big

59:00

Nasty first, way up in North Philly

59:03

near the Montgomery border, grabbed Mr. Tyndale.

59:05

After a little bit, he didn't want

59:07

to go quietly initially, but finally we

59:09

get him, comes in, then he confesses,

59:11

starts laying everything out. That helps me

59:13

build the case against the others. And

59:16

then I arrest the others, but I'm still

59:18

trying to build a case on the ringleader,

59:21

which is this guy, Ms. or Marcel Harper.

59:23

I arrest the others, Gerald Soul, Ronnie Muir,

59:25

Ronnie Muir's family, they own the daycare center

59:27

out in West Philly. I arrest all these

59:30

individuals. I don't have enough to charge Harper

59:32

yet, but I get cooperation and now I

59:34

have enough to get Harper. And what Harper

59:37

was doing was he had gotten a little

59:39

smarter in his old age and he was

59:41

using these guys training them. They would set

59:43

up the basement, they would set up the

59:46

second floor of the daycare center. They would

59:48

set it up like the inside of the

59:50

bank that they were targets. They would send

59:52

either a female or girlfriend in to case

59:55

the bank out well in advance. They would

59:57

set the basement of the room up like

59:59

the bank and then rehearse and practice. this

1:00:02

and they would time each other and lay

1:00:04

out the specific roles. It would go out

1:00:06

and case the banks. Very efficient and Harper

1:00:08

for years of experience was important that experienced

1:00:11

other crew. Finally, I'm able to charge Harper.

1:00:13

I arrest him. He was actually, he's on

1:00:15

parole and he was asked to, at the

1:00:18

time, living with a female police officer, never

1:00:20

able to prove that he used her gun

1:00:22

and any of these bank robberies. That was

1:00:24

a whole separate issue. Anyway, arrest Harper. Initially,

1:00:27

I get a confession from him, but then

1:00:29

he goes south also when he decides

1:00:31

to go to trial. And we convict

1:00:34

him at trial of the planning, participation,

1:00:36

and the conspiracy of both the artisan

1:00:38

and the citizen's bank robber. Chris,

1:00:40

these other guys are getting some bad advice

1:00:43

whether to play or go to trial. Right.

1:00:45

Yeah. Well, exactly. With Harper, and Harper's

1:00:47

a smart, don't give him credit. Not

1:00:50

an unlikable guy. Violent, getting other people

1:00:52

to do their stuff. So obviously same

1:00:54

thing with Chris. He's got some charisma

1:00:56

to him. Some leadership ability. If you

1:00:58

had put it to the right use,

1:01:00

maybe you would have done something different,

1:01:02

but articulate and got kids, you know,

1:01:04

weren't kids. I mean, adults, pretty

1:01:06

big sized adults to go rob these banks.

1:01:09

And he's teaching them to be as violent

1:01:11

as possible. The action of violence controls the

1:01:13

banks. And that's what he's preaching to these

1:01:15

folks. And sure enough, like a citizen bank

1:01:17

robbery, Chris told you, it's pretty bad. They

1:01:20

got ski mess on, they got guns out.

1:01:22

They're parading these folks into the vault at

1:01:24

gun points, screaming and hollering. They're in and

1:01:26

out. I mean, it's pretty traumatizing events for

1:01:29

the poor folks that are in the banks

1:01:31

at these times. And this, it came from

1:01:33

Harper. Kazmaq do was very respectful, gave me

1:01:35

a confession, wrote it all down a

1:01:37

paper and then got some bad advice. And he

1:01:40

decides to go to trial to try to get

1:01:42

the confession thrown out, label me as I

1:01:44

made it all up and liar and all

1:01:46

that stuff. But he was convicted at trial.

1:01:49

What happened to Maynard Patterson

1:01:51

who cooperated at the beginning?

1:01:53

And of course, I would

1:01:56

like to hear more about

1:01:58

what happened with Chris. especially

1:02:00

when it came to the murder conviction.

1:02:03

The whole case broke with Mr. Patterson.

1:02:06

He also identified a whole separate crew that

1:02:08

he was part of, and Shannon Johnson, who

1:02:10

was another one of the individuals part of

1:02:12

the bank robbery conspiracy that wound up cooperating

1:02:14

for me. They wound up doing a $900,000

1:02:16

army truck up in Abington in

1:02:19

the midst of all this, but with the

1:02:22

whole separate crew from up north part of

1:02:24

Philadelphia. So these guys were not just part

1:02:26

of this enterprise in Maynard, but they had

1:02:28

a whole bunch of stuff going. As a

1:02:30

result of Maynard and his cooperation, and obviously

1:02:33

he got some significant consideration on his sentencing

1:02:35

for all the help he did, it wasn't

1:02:37

only the banks he was talking about. And

1:02:39

remember, he's the one that directed me over

1:02:41

to New Jersey, where I was able to

1:02:44

identify the Corny's Point incident with the Robinsons.

1:02:46

Ultimately, there are a bunch of murders that

1:02:48

we solved off of this case, a bunch

1:02:50

of other robberies. They were doing home invasion

1:02:52

robberies, different members of this crew, drug dealing.

1:02:54

It wasn't just the bank robberies and this

1:02:56

crew that we were able to lock up.

1:02:58

They had a bunch of follow-on investigations that

1:03:00

had some good results. Patterson, I'll give him

1:03:02

credit, he started me on that journey, even

1:03:04

though he went to trial twice. And what

1:03:06

did he get? For Patterson, I

1:03:09

want to say 84 months, but

1:03:12

I'm not sure what Patterson was sentenced

1:03:14

to. The guys that went to trial,

1:03:16

including Chris, he mentioned that there were

1:03:18

some laws that changed and

1:03:20

then retroactively reduced some of his sentence.

1:03:23

He also, not to bore with the

1:03:25

technical aspects of it, in the bank

1:03:27

robbery trial where he represented himself, there

1:03:29

was an incorrect instruction where he was

1:03:32

improperly advised of what sentence he'd be

1:03:34

looking at if convicted because of the

1:03:36

use of a gun. So

1:03:38

he was told it was five years if he gets convicted on

1:03:40

the gun charge, where in fact it was 25 years. So

1:03:44

that conviction actually got tossed and we

1:03:46

had to retry it, but Mr. Booker

1:03:48

decided to plea, throw his mercy on

1:03:51

the court and on us, US Attorney's

1:03:53

Office. Maynard got his time. I'm sure

1:03:55

he's out and hopefully doing well. Chris

1:03:58

got something in the range of. close

1:04:00

to 70 years, all total, between the

1:04:02

Jersey Guns and Drugs conviction and the

1:04:04

bank robbery conviction. He got close to

1:04:06

70 years, whenever that comes out in

1:04:08

months. Chris, your

1:04:10

redemption, your stepping away from

1:04:13

that life, did that start

1:04:15

while you were incarcerated or

1:04:17

did that start once you

1:04:19

came out in 2021? That

1:04:21

started while I

1:04:24

was incarcerated. I was

1:04:26

facing a lot of time. I had a lot

1:04:28

of time under my jacket

1:04:31

where my release date was

1:04:33

2067 due to vigorous

1:04:35

appeals and steadfast

1:04:40

prayer and things of

1:04:43

that nature, begging

1:04:45

God for another opportunity and disavowing

1:04:48

all the things that I used to

1:04:50

be into. My prayers was answered. I

1:04:52

did one of my pills, came back.

1:04:55

I had a way to reach

1:04:58

out to Vito. It's funny. The

1:05:00

story about that is funny. You

1:05:03

know, I just reached out just to let

1:05:05

him know, man, look, I changed, man. I

1:05:07

don't, you know, I'm not into the streets

1:05:09

no more. I really just need another chance.

1:05:11

And this is something that's rare. And

1:05:14

he believed me. After all we

1:05:16

went through, he believed me. It

1:05:18

was more of a process. I was still in

1:05:21

court. Just like I said, I

1:05:23

had won my pill. And, you know, I'm

1:05:25

back in the federal detention center, you know,

1:05:27

awaiting a new trial. So

1:05:29

of course my lawyers had to reach out to the

1:05:32

prosecutor at the time and Vito

1:05:35

at the time to, you know, see if

1:05:37

we can come up with some kind of

1:05:39

deal to avoid having to go to trial

1:05:41

again, bringing witnesses back and, you know, going

1:05:44

over this whole trial again, because that's what I was

1:05:46

granted a whole new trial. So during

1:05:48

the course of me being down there, I

1:05:50

just was pleading

1:05:52

for a good deal that I

1:05:54

can take and come home

1:05:57

one day, opposed to maybe

1:05:59

never come home. So, you

1:06:01

know, I reached out. I had got

1:06:03

Vito's phone number off of my 302s. And

1:06:05

that's just what happened to the call. And

1:06:07

when I called, you know, I just, you

1:06:10

know, was apologetic, you

1:06:13

know, letting know, look, I'm getting ready to go back

1:06:15

to the trial, baby, don't try to get a deal,

1:06:17

man. Like, I don't know what it is,

1:06:19

what it's going to be, but, you know,

1:06:21

just know that I changed, you know, I'm not

1:06:23

the same person. That's what made me

1:06:26

reach out to him. And it wasn't, you

1:06:28

know, no sideline and stuff, not like that,

1:06:30

trying to be slick or not like that.

1:06:32

It was really just like letting the people

1:06:34

know that I really did change. I really

1:06:36

didn't make some changes in my life. And

1:06:38

it's not the life I want to live.

1:06:41

It's a blessing that he heard me and he

1:06:43

heard that I was writing books. No, I told

1:06:45

him that I was writing books and, you know,

1:06:47

staying out of trouble and following the programs and

1:06:49

within the prison system. And, you know, I let

1:06:51

him know all the things that I was doing

1:06:53

and all that and all the changes that I

1:06:55

made. And shocked me, surprised me

1:06:57

that when I took a deal and when

1:07:00

I went to go give

1:07:02

resentence, all these things came up

1:07:05

and, you know, ultimately I wasn't too much

1:07:07

of a fight from the other side, you

1:07:09

know, and I appreciate that. I will

1:07:11

always be indebted. He's a good guy. Some

1:07:13

people, you know, in the criminal world, what

1:07:16

a federal agent, good guy. No, I can't

1:07:18

be a good guy. You know, when everybody

1:07:20

else, all my friends and all that

1:07:22

stuff left me behind, you know,

1:07:24

left me with 106 years, including

1:07:27

my state time. When

1:07:30

everybody turned their back on me and thought that I

1:07:32

was just the worst of the worst. And

1:07:34

I made the changes in my life with

1:07:37

the FBI agent to see the changes

1:07:39

in my life, to see the sincerity

1:07:42

to help and give me another chance.

1:07:44

I do appreciate that, you know,

1:07:47

because without that, I'd be still sitting

1:07:49

in prison probably with a lengthy sense, even

1:07:51

coming back on appeal and getting a new

1:07:53

trial. They could have easily just took me

1:07:55

back to trial and brought all the witnesses

1:07:57

back again. And I would have

1:07:59

got the counselors

1:10:00

and sure enough, they all spoke highly of

1:10:02

the guy and said he did turn his

1:10:04

life around. So that impressed me. What

1:10:07

happens was the government had to make

1:10:09

a decision whether to take him back

1:10:12

to trial at this point. He's locked up

1:10:14

since 2004. And at this point,

1:10:17

it's a number of years later, he's done quite

1:10:19

a bit of time in prison

1:10:21

already. Is it really worth taking him

1:10:24

to trial again, the expense

1:10:26

and the effort? Now, if we had said if I

1:10:28

had said, yeah, no, this guy's, you know, bad news

1:10:30

and he's still bad news, he come, he gets out,

1:10:33

watch out all this kind of be in danger. I did

1:10:36

not think that. And I let my

1:10:38

opinion be known. And long story short

1:10:40

is the government did not contest his

1:10:44

resentencing. And then

1:10:46

in 2021, he gets he gets released. And then

1:10:48

Chris and I would just kind of stayed in

1:10:50

contact. You know, I was curious to see how

1:10:52

he would do. Yeah, I'll let him tell you.

1:10:55

But the guy's got a CDL, he's got his

1:10:57

guys like together. And you know, I knew he

1:10:59

would because he's got something he can give back.

1:11:01

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1:11:36

Chris, this is your opportunity to tell us

1:11:38

your redemption story how things have worked out.

1:11:40

What have you been doing since your release

1:11:42

in 2021? And how many years total was

1:11:46

that that you were incarcerated? 17 years.

1:11:50

What have you been released? Tell us

1:11:53

all the great things that Vito was

1:11:55

mentioning are teasing us about as far

1:11:57

as what you're doing now. Tell us

1:11:59

about the books. Yeah, still

1:12:02

writing. I'm trying to collab with

1:12:04

Link Carrington right now to do

1:12:06

a TV series on Single Ladies.

1:12:08

We changed the name from Single

1:12:11

Ladies to the acronym GRITS, Girls

1:12:13

Raised in the South. And right

1:12:15

now, trying to get actors and

1:12:17

some finance and beyond it

1:12:20

just working. The best thing

1:12:22

that I've done so far is reconnect

1:12:24

with my family. You know, that was

1:12:27

a process. We've been away for 17

1:12:29

and a half years. You know, it's

1:12:31

a very long time. So

1:12:33

reconnecting with my family, man,

1:12:36

just been beautiful. Working,

1:12:38

had several jobs, worked in a factory.

1:12:40

I was a forklift operator for quite

1:12:42

some time. I used to load trucks,

1:12:45

18 wheelers, with

1:12:47

C-Met. And I figured, you know, why

1:12:49

not be the driver? So went

1:12:52

and got my CDL, started to

1:12:54

drive trucks. Been doing that for

1:12:56

the past year and a half.

1:12:58

Been driving 18 wheelers, just traveling

1:13:00

the country, all over

1:13:02

the country, you know, enjoying my

1:13:04

time out. Been all over the

1:13:06

country, nearly every state so far.

1:13:08

So it's just been beautiful. Vacation

1:13:10

spots, just enjoying life at

1:13:13

this time. Well, I

1:13:15

see here that your book under

1:13:17

the name of Single Ladies is

1:13:19

on Amazon, both as an audio

1:13:21

book and an e-book, and a

1:13:23

paper book. So I do want

1:13:25

to let you know that I'm

1:13:27

going to put a link to

1:13:29

it in the show notes for

1:13:31

this episode. You were explaining

1:13:33

to me why it is under

1:13:35

the author name of Blake Carrington

1:13:38

instead of Chris Booker. So why

1:13:40

don't you explain that to everyone

1:13:42

listening? If you look a

1:13:44

little deeper, some of the covers do

1:13:46

that, Blake Carrington and Chris Booker. But

1:13:48

the main ones is under Blake Carrington.

1:13:50

And that's because I was incarcerated. During

1:13:52

that time, I wrote these books while

1:13:54

I was incarcerated. I wrote probably around

1:13:56

40 books for

1:13:59

different authors. I was selling them straight up

1:14:02

or just selling the rice to some, keeping

1:14:04

the rice to others. A lot of my

1:14:06

books I did with Blake Carrington and we

1:14:08

had a partnership. I write the books. He

1:14:11

put them out there. Being

1:14:13

a prisoner, I'm not going to get that much

1:14:15

traction out there with my name on the book.

1:14:18

So he's out there. He can promote the

1:14:20

books better and make more

1:14:22

money for the both of us at the

1:14:24

time. So that's why his name is

1:14:27

on the book. He's

1:14:29

a good guy. That's my guy. They've been

1:14:31

a real gem for me while I was in prison. And

1:14:33

most of these books, for those who might

1:14:36

be interested, is there a general theme or

1:14:38

premise for the books? These

1:14:40

are urban novels. If

1:14:42

you read any book that came from me

1:14:45

that I've written, it's

1:14:47

going to have a portion of my life in

1:14:49

it somewhere. In some way, shape,

1:14:51

or form, something that happened

1:14:54

or transpired in my life is actually

1:14:56

in the books. I had

1:14:58

to change the characters or the names of

1:15:01

some of the people, just like if you

1:15:03

go there, turn them into a female federal

1:15:05

agent. Say that again. You wrote

1:15:07

a book? I wrote a book

1:15:10

called Diamond Rush. It's about three guys who

1:15:12

robbed a bank, these three guys that robbed

1:15:14

a bank. A lot of the

1:15:16

details of the book that I'm robbing a bank

1:15:18

actually came from my life. It came from when

1:15:20

I was involved in a bank robbery. But she

1:15:22

had an FBI agent that was on

1:15:25

those three bank robbers. And she was

1:15:27

a female agent, but that was really

1:15:29

veto. Come on. What

1:15:35

a payback. Yeah, that's a

1:15:37

payback. After

1:15:40

all, you're dead for him and he does

1:15:42

that. No kidding, boy. Way to do me.

1:15:45

Well, Chris, it's been wonderful talking

1:15:47

with you and being able to

1:15:49

share a little bit of your

1:15:51

life story with the listeners. At

1:15:54

the end of my conversations with

1:15:56

my guests, I like to ask

1:15:58

them for... that

1:18:00

after all those years of him telling you

1:18:02

that there was a better way that you

1:18:04

found that way. That's a highlight.

1:18:06

Before he had passed away, we used

1:18:08

to talk about that man used to

1:18:10

let me know how proud he is

1:18:12

of me. Got my own house, got

1:18:14

my own car, I'm married, doing everything,

1:18:16

everything right, staying off the streets, just

1:18:18

working and providing, doing everything that he

1:18:20

used to do for our family. Now

1:18:22

growing up, being older, I took after

1:18:24

that. And he always tell me

1:18:26

how proud he is of me. That's always going

1:18:28

to be in my heart because something that I

1:18:31

always want to do is make my dad proud.

1:18:33

Thanks, Chris. I really appreciate you

1:18:36

accepting my invitation to come on

1:18:38

the show today. I really want

1:18:40

to thank you for sharing your

1:18:43

story with us today. Vito, we're

1:18:45

at the point of the interview

1:18:48

where I need to ask you

1:18:50

my standard question, which is when

1:18:52

and why did you join the

1:18:55

FBI? I joined

1:18:57

February of 97 when

1:18:59

I went to Quantico, but that was my

1:19:01

lifelong goal from as long as I can

1:19:04

remember. My dad was a Hoover agent. He

1:19:06

came in under Hoover, was an FBI agent,

1:19:08

was a door kicker his entire career, one

1:19:10

of the baddest, toughest men I've ever known.

1:19:13

I looked up to him and that FBI

1:19:15

fan, so I grew up in the FBI

1:19:17

family. So my dad and all his partners,

1:19:19

we all lived in the same neighborhood. A

1:19:22

lot of them were New Yorkers, but that

1:19:24

was from Brooklyn. I grew up in North

1:19:26

Jersey around these people in the gatherings. I

1:19:28

just absolutely loved them. Great storytellers. Absolutely loved

1:19:31

the stories. That's what I wanted to do.

1:19:33

I wanted to be an FBI agent from

1:19:35

as long as I can remember. Finally, they

1:19:37

made the mistake and I got in. I

1:19:40

was in the Coast Guard previously. Great job.

1:19:42

Absolutely loved it. Got seasick all the time,

1:19:44

but absolutely

1:19:46

wasn't a question. When the offer

1:19:48

came, I jumped at it,

1:19:50

started Quantico, got out, got lucky, got

1:19:53

my first choice, Philadelphia. My dad knew

1:19:55

the SAC, so the SAC took care

1:19:57

of me and put me on the

1:19:59

best squad. in the division, which was

1:20:01

the bank robbery squad. Like I said

1:20:03

earlier, that's where it was happening. The

1:20:05

bank robbery squad of Philadelphia was known

1:20:07

throughout the Bureau because we were active

1:20:09

and that's a really good top-notch legendary

1:20:11

investigators on the squad. And he put

1:20:13

me there as a green agent. Never

1:20:15

looked back since. Absolutely loved it. When

1:20:17

I came into the Philadelphia division, they

1:20:20

would go to this club in New

1:20:22

Jersey. I would go to hang out.

1:20:24

And that's where I met my husband.

1:20:26

So I owe my marriage and my

1:20:28

children to the bank robbery squad in

1:20:30

Philadelphia, old squad 10. There you go.

1:20:32

I mean, a lot of things happened

1:20:34

on that squad. And

1:20:36

to this day, that squad is still

1:20:39

the premier squad. There are some characters.

1:20:41

I mean, you remember some of the

1:20:43

folks that were definitely some colorful people

1:20:45

on that squad themselves had great investigations,

1:20:47

great cases. I was very

1:20:49

lucky. And I never looked at

1:20:51

the clock, never looked back. I

1:20:53

absolutely loved every day going to

1:20:55

work. We have to acknowledge your

1:20:57

supervisor when you first got on

1:20:59

that squad, which of course is

1:21:01

Mike Carbonell. And I have interviewed

1:21:03

him on this podcast. One of

1:21:05

the earlier episodes, I'll have to

1:21:07

look it up. He was definitely

1:21:09

a character. Oh my God.

1:21:11

Yeah. Talking about characters. Absolutely love the

1:21:14

guy. My first supervisor was Warren Grace.

1:21:16

So I first got there. Warren was

1:21:18

the supervisor. Carbo was the supervisor of

1:21:20

the fugitive squad 12. They had their

1:21:22

own reputation with some top-notch door kickers

1:21:24

on that squad. And then we merged.

1:21:27

I think that was before 9-11 where

1:21:29

they merged squads. Warren retired and Carbo

1:21:31

became the supervisor of the joint fugitive

1:21:33

bank robbery squad. Then I had a

1:21:35

number of good years, which was again,

1:21:37

that just added to the fun I

1:21:39

had on that squad with that knucklehead

1:21:42

as my boss. He was the best.

1:21:44

He was on episode 15 where

1:21:47

he talked about a kidnapping case

1:21:49

for ransom of a toddler. And

1:21:51

of course his most famous case,

1:21:53

which was the Ira Einhorn fugitive

1:21:56

investigation. Yeah, Mike, a legendary. agent

1:21:58

while he was on the street.

1:22:00

He put together some of the

1:22:02

best Philadelphia bureau-wide fugitive cases, including

1:22:04

that one. He was going over

1:22:07

to Europe, put a lot of

1:22:09

time effort, and brought that guy

1:22:11

to justice. Finally, he did that

1:22:13

in a number of high-profile cases.

1:22:15

He was a great agent, great

1:22:17

boss. Talking about high-profile cases. Now,

1:22:20

we chose this particular takeover bank

1:22:22

robbery case to review today. And

1:22:24

it's a great case, but your

1:22:26

biggest case during your career is

1:22:28

still unsolved. Can we take a

1:22:31

moment to talk about that case?

1:22:33

Sure. That's one, obviously, that stays

1:22:36

with you. It was a couple

1:22:38

of Danielle Ottebrae. She was married.

1:22:40

Danielle Imbo married name. And Richard

1:22:42

Petrone Jr., they disappeared after leaving

1:22:45

a South Philly bar called Abilene's

1:22:47

on South Street. February 19, 2005,

1:22:49

they were last seen leaving that

1:22:53

bar. They disappeared along

1:22:55

with Petrone's black Dodge

1:22:57

Dakota pickup truck. Normally,

1:22:59

disappearance is not a federal

1:23:01

investigation. There's no federal jurisdiction, just simply

1:23:03

for a disappearance. We weren't involved initially

1:23:05

in the investigation. There was no extortionate

1:23:07

demand. So it wasn't a kidnapping, which

1:23:10

would be federal. No federal nexus at

1:23:12

the time, but we had a very

1:23:14

good relationship and still do to this

1:23:16

day with the Philadelphia Police Department, give

1:23:18

them a plug. One of the most

1:23:20

outstanding police departments in the country, good

1:23:22

people. We had a great relationship with

1:23:24

them. In fact, our squad at the

1:23:27

time was about half Philly detectives and

1:23:29

half agents. So my partners were

1:23:31

some of the best investigators I ever worked

1:23:33

with, Philly PD detectives. So we helped out

1:23:35

when they needed help with either surveillance or

1:23:38

doing some background checks or checking the bank

1:23:40

records for activity on credit cards. They came

1:23:42

to us and asked for help. I remember

1:23:44

Mike Carvinelle, I remember him walking over and

1:23:47

this was probably a couple of weeks after

1:23:49

a couple actually disappeared. And it was starting

1:23:51

to get a lot of press. It was

1:23:54

a human interest story for sure. Because these

1:23:56

two good people with good families just disappeared.

1:23:58

There was a lot of of publicity

1:24:00

surrounding it. And then I remember Carbo walking

1:24:02

over, I'm sitting on my desk and he

1:24:05

drops phone records on my desk and they

1:24:07

asked me to help out South detectives going

1:24:09

through and working the phone records

1:24:11

and cell towers and all that stuff. I

1:24:13

used it to some good effect on my

1:24:15

bank robbery cases. And that's where I started

1:24:17

getting involved. So that case had a lot

1:24:19

of ups and downs. I retired last year

1:24:22

in 2023, leaving this

1:24:24

case unsolved. Is that something that

1:24:26

kind of gets to you? Oh,

1:24:28

absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. February 2005,

1:24:32

I don't think since then there wasn't

1:24:34

a day I obsessed on the case.

1:24:36

I mean, we're all fathers, brothers, sons,

1:24:38

have kids. It's hard not to get

1:24:40

personally involved. Of course, it's my job,

1:24:42

it's an investigator's job to stay professional

1:24:44

and do the case, but hard not

1:24:46

to get involved when you had two

1:24:48

great families, the Patrons and the Audubres,

1:24:50

these two people, everything I found out

1:24:52

about them. The people didn't deserve, nobody

1:24:55

deserves it. Certainly why these two got

1:24:57

my pretty strong suspicions, but I couldn't

1:24:59

solve it. I obsessed on it every

1:25:01

day, long nights, long mornings, long weekends,

1:25:03

trying to put the case together and

1:25:05

make headway and then find out that

1:25:07

this is not what happened or started

1:25:09

another trail. And then I retired telling

1:25:11

the families that, hey, I'm calling it

1:25:13

quits was probably one of the tougher

1:25:15

days of my bureau career. I still

1:25:17

stay engaged with the families and it's

1:25:19

still just like every homicide detective has

1:25:21

that one or two cases that sticks

1:25:24

in their craw. This was the one

1:25:26

for me. I investigated a lot of

1:25:28

pretty violent, nasty folks, nasty crimes, but

1:25:30

this is the one that will stick

1:25:32

with me. Maybe one day you can

1:25:34

solve me. That would be great. I

1:25:36

will also include a link in the

1:25:38

show notes for this episode to one

1:25:41

of the articles about that case. Of

1:25:43

course, I remember it well because it

1:25:45

was during the time I moved from

1:25:47

investigations, investigating fraud and became the spokesperson

1:25:49

and the media rep. So I worked

1:25:52

very closely with you and getting the

1:25:54

message out to the public. It is

1:25:56

definitely a case. that I hope will

1:25:58

be solved in the near future. To

1:26:00

that point, every year we put something

1:26:02

out at the anniversary, keep it in

1:26:05

a public's eye. Something like this, you

1:26:07

have no bodies, you have no truck,

1:26:09

you have no hard physical evidence from

1:26:11

the actual event when they disappeared. So

1:26:13

keeping it out in the public's eye,

1:26:15

not letting it get wasted away in

1:26:18

the travels of time. Even now, I'm

1:26:20

still in touch with my old buddies

1:26:22

back in FBI planning, you know, hey,

1:26:24

we need to keep this in the

1:26:26

public view come next February. And the

1:26:29

office has been great and sure enough,

1:26:31

they got to do it. So that's

1:26:33

how it will get solved if ever.

1:26:35

Yeah, so next February will be the

1:26:37

20th anniversary. It will, yeah, 20 years.

1:26:40

Wow. Hi, it's Jerry.

1:26:42

I wanted to let you know

1:26:45

that Vito is prominently featured in

1:26:47

a new podcast, There and Gone

1:26:49

South Street, where he reviews the

1:26:51

disappearance of Richard Patron and Daniel

1:26:53

Imbo. There's a link for There

1:26:56

and Gone in your podcast app's

1:26:58

description of this episode and the

1:27:00

episode show notes. You

1:27:02

just mentioned that you retired last year.

1:27:04

What are you doing now? Well, my

1:27:07

wife is a Cuban girl from Miami.

1:27:09

So she was up next to my

1:27:11

crazy family up in the New Jersey,

1:27:13

New York area for the last 26

1:27:15

plus years. So her turn, we moved

1:27:18

down here to southeast Florida. And

1:27:20

I started a PI business and then

1:27:22

jumped on an opportunity with a company

1:27:24

down here doing cybersecurity, which a lot

1:27:27

of people would find funny because a

1:27:29

few years ago, I could barely sign

1:27:31

on to a computer. I'm employed by

1:27:33

Restaurant Brands International down here in Miami

1:27:35

and joined the heck out of it.

1:27:37

Good bunch of folks I'm working with

1:27:40

and the job is pretty damn interesting.

1:27:42

Well, I want to thank you and

1:27:44

Chris, thank you so much for coming

1:27:46

on to FBI retired case

1:27:48

file review to tell us your

1:27:50

stories and to review the bank

1:27:53

robbery takeover case. As I mentioned

1:27:55

to Chris, I like to give

1:27:57

my guest the last word. So

1:28:00

So Vito, what would you like to say?

1:28:02

I always tell people I'm one of the

1:28:04

luckiest people in the world because not many

1:28:06

people can say from the beginning to the

1:28:08

end that literally there wasn't a day that

1:28:10

I looked at the clock waiting to go

1:28:12

home. Matter of fact, I used to have

1:28:14

forced myself to go home because the mission

1:28:16

of the Bureau of law enforcement in general,

1:28:18

but especially of the Bureau of the quality

1:28:20

of people, the amount of fun and the

1:28:22

stories that you have because on a violent

1:28:24

crime squad, you can imagine you get in

1:28:26

some heroin situations and you got each other's

1:28:28

backs. And saying that the experiences of those

1:28:30

vents and working together with some folks that

1:28:32

you had to trust with your life just

1:28:35

left me with some of the best memories

1:28:37

in the world. I could have

1:28:39

done another 20 years in the Bureau if they wouldn't

1:28:41

let me. They had that mandatory retirement, they kicked you

1:28:43

out. I would have stayed another 20 years. Absolutely

1:28:46

loved it. Anybody thinking of a career in law

1:28:48

enforcement, you will never meet a better group of

1:28:51

people. And

1:28:53

that's the end of the

1:28:55

interview. In your podcast app's

1:28:57

description of this episode, you'll

1:28:59

find a link to the

1:29:01

show notes at jerrywilliams.com where

1:29:03

you'll find a photo of

1:29:05

Bido Rosselli, links to articles

1:29:08

and court documents about the

1:29:10

bank robbery conspiracy, and case-related

1:29:12

images. There's also a

1:29:14

link to other FBI retired Case

1:29:16

File Review episodes about bank robbery

1:29:18

cases and a link to the

1:29:21

new podcast, There and Gone, South

1:29:23

Street. I hope you

1:29:25

enjoyed the interview and that you'll share

1:29:27

it with your friends, family, and associates.

1:29:30

You can show me just how much you

1:29:32

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1:29:35

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1:29:37

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1:29:39

can visit jerrywilliams.com and

1:29:42

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1:29:44

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1:29:46

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1:29:48

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