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1:03

Welcome to the Feel

1:05

Good podcast, which is

1:07

all about heart-led living

1:09

and wellness. when we

1:11

awaken the power of

1:13

our hearts and let

1:15

that guide us through

1:17

our daily choices and

1:19

decisions through our four

1:22

cornerstones food body emotional

1:24

well-being and spiritual growth

1:26

we will experience the

1:28

most incredible results and

1:30

create more vitality health

1:32

strength peace abundance and

1:34

love in our lives

1:36

I am your host, Kimberly Snyder,

1:38

New York Times best-selling

1:40

author, founder of saloona,

1:43

creator of the research-based

1:45

heart-aligned meditation, wellness expert,

1:47

nutritionist, and international speaker.

1:49

I am passionate about

1:51

supporting you on your

1:54

unique heart and wellness

1:56

journey. Let's get started.

2:01

Hi everyone and welcome back

2:03

to our Monday interview show. I

2:05

am so excited for my very

2:08

special guest today who is the

2:10

author of the new book You

2:12

are the boss of you

2:14

Cultivate the mindset and tools

2:16

to live life on your

2:18

own terms. Shana Brittenham writer

2:21

is also the founder of

2:23

the wellness company, Alaya Naturals,

2:25

and she's an entrepreneur. She's

2:27

dedicated to empowering others. And

2:29

she, her first album, actually

2:31

Dreamers, was released in 2017.

2:33

She's an artist. She was

2:35

a Montessori school teacher. She's

2:37

the mother of two. Shana,

2:39

so many amazing parts of

2:41

your. bio. I'm so excited

2:44

to chat with you as

2:46

well about your new book.

2:48

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

2:50

Thank you so much for having me

2:53

on. I love your podcast and I

2:55

feel really honored to be your guest.

2:57

Oh, it's so lovely to speak to

3:00

you. And I went through your book

3:02

and I loved hearing so much about

3:04

your story and really your you're true.

3:07

You can really feel your intention to

3:09

share and to support others. and so

3:11

many different areas that I'm excited to

3:14

chat with today. Before we go further

3:16

though, I want to mention that the

3:18

shownotes for Today Show, our interview

3:20

with Shana, will be at my

3:22

saloonah.com where you can find links

3:24

to other articles and podcasts and

3:26

many other things that I think

3:29

you will enjoy. So, Shanna, let's

3:31

dive right in here and there's

3:33

so many different parts and so

3:35

many different tools. You talk about

3:37

drama, you talk about sleep, which

3:39

I loved the very practical elements

3:41

that you brought in and as

3:43

a busy-looking mama, I really relate

3:45

to that as well. And it

3:47

just feels like when I was reading

3:49

your book, you know, we're all on

3:51

this journey back to wholeness. Right? And

3:54

then there's so many different aspects, trauma,

3:56

things that happen in our childhood, these

3:58

patterns that we learn. It's sort

4:00

of, you know, create this

4:03

opposite of homelessness. It creates

4:05

this fragmentation. So it's almost this,

4:07

you know, bringing things back together. Can

4:09

you share with us a little bit

4:11

about, you know, you shared in the

4:14

book, you know, some of the trauma

4:16

you've been through and your amazing experiences

4:18

that brought you to where you are

4:20

today? Can you share a little bit

4:23

about how you feel now? versus, let's

4:25

say, before you had all these

4:27

tools, right? Because sometimes I think

4:29

we, oh, we're healed, we've arrived,

4:31

we don't have negative feelings or

4:34

triggers anymore, which I don't think

4:36

is really true. It's more that

4:38

we've evolved, and we do have

4:40

tools, and we do have a

4:42

higher understanding. So can you explain

4:44

a little bit how your experience

4:46

is now from these tools, and

4:49

I imagine how you would want

4:51

others to feel after reading your

4:53

book? Thank you so much for

4:55

asking this beautiful question. Yeah, I

4:57

agree. It's a continuum. We never

5:00

arrive at a place of permanent

5:02

emotional freedom or expansion. Not every

5:04

day feels like it's as full

5:06

of ease. Life is confusing. There

5:08

are many moving parts and as

5:11

we evolve. I think for me

5:13

at least personally, my hope is

5:15

to feel more and more resilient.

5:17

as I encounter whatever it is

5:20

that life's going to throw in

5:22

my way. So the things I

5:24

talk about in the book in

5:27

terms of self-advocacy and creating boundaries

5:29

and learning to self-soothe and learning

5:31

to sleep, all of these things

5:34

I wrote about because I've struggled

5:36

so immensely with them and continued

5:39

to be faced with new opportunities

5:41

to grow and learn more. So

5:43

there was a point in my life

5:45

in which I would say anxiety was

5:48

paramount. Yeah, anxiety can be almost

5:50

deceiving because it's just such a

5:52

deep internal experience that what you

5:55

present to the outside world doesn't

5:57

always reflect what's going on internally.

5:59

So for me I was like

6:02

very high achieving at a certain

6:04

point. You know, I've pursued a

6:07

lot of different careers with varying

6:09

degrees of quantifiable success. But I

6:11

always felt like I was able

6:14

to sort of achieve what I

6:16

wanted to, but never had the

6:18

feeling I hoped to have when

6:21

I technically arrived at where I

6:23

thought I wanted to be. And

6:26

so I think the most sort

6:28

of poignant part of my

6:30

life now is feeling like wherever

6:33

I am and whatever I'm doing,

6:35

I feel pretty good. And by

6:37

good, I think what I mean

6:40

is I feel unencumbered by the

6:42

things that keep me from being

6:44

my true self. And so, you

6:47

know, at our core, we're all

6:49

sort of ultimately, I believe, full

6:51

of joy and possibility and

6:53

a sense of freedom and

6:56

peace. And trauma is what

6:58

strips us of access to

7:01

that truth, but at our

7:03

core, that is who we fundamentally

7:05

remain, regardless of what

7:07

we've been through or

7:10

how we're experiencing ourselves.

7:12

And so today, based

7:15

on the tools that

7:17

I've learned and created

7:19

and worked tirelessly to

7:22

internalize. I was going to

7:24

say master, but that's just not

7:26

true. To internalize, I would say,

7:28

like, I feel a level of

7:30

resilience that I've never felt before

7:32

in the sense that I know

7:34

that whatever is going on internally

7:36

or externally, I can navigate with

7:38

a certain level of grace and

7:41

ease that I just didn't have

7:43

before. So what would happen previously

7:45

is I would just break physically.

7:47

And that would be the clue

7:49

that I was overwhelmed and didn't

7:51

know how to manage my stress

7:54

or emotions. And now I'm cognizant

7:56

of what's going on. I'm

7:58

aware and introspective. and I

8:00

pause consistently to assess and

8:02

to sort of, you know,

8:04

gain access to my physiological

8:07

experience, which is usually indicative

8:09

of what's going on emotionally,

8:11

and then readjust and reframe

8:13

constantly over and over a

8:15

minute by minute, so that

8:17

my experience, you know,

8:19

in terms of what I'm

8:21

projecting, is actually reflecting my

8:23

internal world, which again, was

8:25

not always the case. Yeah, I love

8:28

that I love that China. When

8:30

I was reading your book, there

8:32

was a lot in your story

8:34

that I also really related to

8:36

that idea of the seeking, the

8:38

perfectionism, the trying to get the

8:40

worthiness. And when you talk about

8:42

the core, and I love that

8:44

you use the term true self,

8:46

which is something I also use

8:48

and it's a very, you'll get

8:50

concept, this pseudo self, the ego.

8:52

It takes us away. from our

8:54

truth in so many ways. And

8:56

a lot of us don't really

8:58

learn growing up that the core is

9:00

not the, you know, this identification

9:03

with feelings, right? And for me,

9:05

a lot of it's accessing it

9:07

through the heart, not just listening

9:09

to the head. So the part

9:11

where in the book we talk

9:13

about the I am, I am, right?

9:15

The I am that I am, that

9:17

I am, like this essence, the true

9:19

self, the hard energy, not I am

9:21

these feelings is so powerful. you know,

9:24

when you talk about the tools, first

9:26

of all, allowing the feelings to come

9:28

through, for me is staying stable with,

9:30

you know, in the heart, the

9:32

heart coherence, but allowing ourselves to

9:34

feel and not repress, but at

9:36

the same time not identify

9:38

with the feelings. Yes, being

9:40

aware and acknowledging feelings doesn't

9:42

mean that we have to

9:44

necessarily believe the experience is

9:47

reflective of who we are

9:49

fundamentally. So we can believe

9:51

the experience itself because it's

9:53

real. What you're feeling at

9:55

any given moment in time

9:57

is valid because it's actually

9:59

happening. But what it isn't is

10:01

necessarily a reflection of who you

10:04

are as a person fundamentally. We

10:06

tend to conflate those two things.

10:08

So let's be specific, Sean, let's

10:10

say you have a trauma or,

10:13

you know, I'll use it, I'll

10:15

use myself, a trauma of, you

10:17

know, I'll get, I used to

10:19

get really agitated if someone interrupted

10:21

me or didn't seem like they

10:24

understood me, right? So this old

10:26

trauma around not being seen or

10:28

hurt as a child. And then

10:30

I would start to, you know,

10:32

be aware that this agitation was

10:34

being projected on this story, right?

10:37

Oh, I'm not being seen and

10:39

heard. So now, to your point,

10:41

when I feel that energy, I

10:43

can pause and say, wait, this

10:45

is an old trauma living in

10:47

me. It's in me. So I

10:49

kind of bring it back here.

10:51

Yes, exactly. And in addition to

10:53

that. I think it's important

10:55

to differentiate the experience

10:57

from your identity. So

11:00

you are not an

11:02

irritable person. You're not

11:04

a person who's prone

11:06

to agitation. You're a

11:08

person who hasn't metabolized

11:10

trauma and it's causing

11:12

a certain reaction. There's

11:14

reactivity in your mind

11:16

and body because of

11:18

this process of integrating

11:20

trauma that has been

11:22

overlooked. doesn't necessarily, you

11:24

know, have in any way represent

11:26

who you are at your core.

11:28

So if we begin to process

11:31

and really work on why it

11:33

is we're reacting a certain way,

11:35

hopefully our behavior over a time

11:38

begins to evolve. But

11:40

regardless of how reactive you

11:42

are, you're still the same

11:44

person fundamentally, and you're not

11:46

the ways that you're behaving.

11:48

Exactly. It's, again, away from

11:51

the heart, away from the

11:53

true self, away from the

11:55

loving wholeness. So Shanna, when

11:57

we talk about metabolizing the

11:59

trauma, the things that you talk

12:01

about is somatic awareness, like

12:03

what's going on in our body

12:06

and releasing. So for me, even

12:08

when I understood the trauma, oh,

12:10

like this happened, there was like

12:12

neglect or whatever, like I felt

12:14

at certain points. When I would

12:16

be in those experiences, I would

12:18

breathe through and I would let

12:20

myself feel and kind of release.

12:23

And these are tools and ways

12:25

that aren't. Just in words, right,

12:27

like it's not just talk therapy,

12:29

there's energetic ways to process. Can

12:31

you talk a little bit about

12:33

you? You talk about all sorts

12:36

of modalities, you talk about tapping

12:38

and emotional, you know, just so

12:40

many. I love emotional freedom taking,

12:42

but I mean, but just to

12:44

sort of reflect back to you,

12:46

your own physical gestures, multiple times

12:48

since we logged on to this

12:50

conversation. you've touched your heart. And

12:53

that's just something that's intuitive to

12:55

you now because it's a tool

12:57

that you've learned to reconnect to

12:59

your heart and to sort of

13:01

get out of your mind. I

13:03

think physicalizing things is so important.

13:05

I mean I tend to get

13:07

in my head a lot. And

13:09

at a period of time in

13:12

my life where I was very

13:14

high anxiety and hypervigilance was prevalent,

13:16

I would say I lived primarily

13:18

in my mind and never really

13:20

felt totally embodied. I felt a

13:22

little bit removed from my physical

13:24

experience. And so even just touching

13:27

your body the way you do

13:29

so beautifully and so intuitively is

13:32

a way to reconnect and understand

13:34

that we're more than our minds.

13:36

When I was learning to sing

13:39

I had a wonderful singing coach

13:41

named Stephen Memel, he's still around

13:44

teaching. And I would get so

13:46

trapped in my mind because of

13:48

that perfectionistic piece, wondering how I

13:51

sounded. sort of anticipating potential

13:53

feedback or judgment. And

13:55

so preemptively editing myself

13:57

or holding back and

13:59

restraining. my true voice because I

14:01

wasn't sure what would come out

14:04

now people would perceive it.

14:06

Fear, totally fear, fear of rejection,

14:08

fear of not being good enough,

14:10

fear of hoping I'm something I'm

14:13

not, you know, Stephen would have

14:15

me do these really outrageous movements

14:17

physically. So when he saw I

14:19

was getting to trapped in my

14:22

head. So for instance, I would

14:24

be hopping on one foot and

14:26

rubbing my, you know, using my

14:28

hand clockwise to make a circle

14:31

above my head. And then as

14:33

soon as he saw that I

14:35

had assimilated that move and was

14:38

still able to think through it,

14:40

he would then change the choreography

14:42

so that I wasn't able to

14:45

focus on my voice. So in

14:47

other words. allowing our bodies to have

14:49

a place in the scene. We're not

14:51

floating heads, but many of us kind

14:53

of walk around trying to think and

14:55

overanalyze because there's protection and

14:58

feeling safe, like we've accounted for

15:00

all of our options or problem

15:02

solved by thinking through every potential

15:04

scenario. Is that the hyper focus

15:06

that you talked about at one

15:09

point this? hypervigilance, hyper focus, that's

15:11

almost a trauma response, right? Like

15:13

we don't feel safe, so if

15:15

we clamp down, we can control

15:18

more of our experience. Absolutely, and

15:20

if we predict everything that could

15:22

possibly go wrong, then there's no

15:24

way we can get hurt or that

15:26

someone can hurt us. So that's still

15:29

a theme that's really big in

15:31

my life that I'm trying very

15:33

hard not to pass down to

15:35

my children with varying levels of

15:37

success depending on the thing. But

15:39

like for instance, my son is

15:41

very aware of whether or not

15:43

he's cold. And he will respond

15:45

to his physical cues by putting

15:48

on a coat. But I preemptively

15:50

want to put a coat on

15:52

him to prevent him from feeling

15:54

cold to make sure he's not

15:56

uncomfortable. So when we trust ourselves

15:58

and when we... trust our bodies,

16:01

and when we slow down and

16:03

have enough awareness to realize what's

16:05

going on and how to respond

16:07

to it, when we have the

16:09

confidence of believing we're able to

16:11

respond to what's happening in real

16:13

time, we don't put the coat on

16:15

before we're cold. We don't eat

16:17

the snack before we're hungry, right?

16:20

And so similarly, like, we wouldn't

16:22

think through every single potential unknown

16:24

variable in regard to a decision

16:27

that's... you know, that is relating

16:29

to our future because we're not

16:31

there in that moment yet.

16:34

That's fiction. Right. By being

16:36

present every moment, we

16:38

get the information we need

16:40

to make the next best

16:42

decision at the right time

16:44

versus thinking 50 steps ahead.

16:47

you know, in a world of imagination

16:49

that is purely fiction and has nothing

16:51

to do with may or what may

16:53

or may not happen in real time,

16:56

right? So it's this kind of trusting

16:58

ourselves. Go ahead. Do you

17:00

think this trauma, this hypervigilance can

17:02

make us more... Like we can

17:05

create even more stories and narratives

17:07

about other people's motives or look

17:09

too deeply into what do they

17:11

mean or what's going on here?

17:14

Do you think there's a lot

17:16

of... Well it has for me.

17:18

I mean I've been hyper... Yeah

17:20

I mean I would call it

17:23

like my husband bluntly calls it

17:25

paranoia. I call it fear you

17:27

know it's all levels of pain

17:29

around not wanting to be

17:31

judged. rejected, isolated and

17:34

lonely. So in order to

17:36

stay in people's good graces,

17:38

subconsciously or consciously, many of

17:41

us who felt isolated and

17:43

alone as children are misunderstood,

17:46

or like we weren't fully

17:48

seen or heard, do everything

17:50

in our power to ensure

17:53

that that experience doesn't happen

17:55

again as adults. And so we're

17:57

sort of people pleasing or keep.

18:00

a distance from people? Yeah,

18:02

creating, not letting people fully

18:04

access your true self, you

18:06

know, and not presenting your

18:08

whole emotional experience to

18:10

people so that they're not

18:12

in a position to judge

18:14

you. or creating an image

18:17

that you feel like people

18:19

will receive, you know, versus maybe

18:21

just being your authentic self

18:23

in a moment that is

18:26

really raw? Well, I'm laughing,

18:28

Sean, because when you think

18:31

about social media, right, and

18:33

how much, how many masks there

18:35

are, and it's just, you know.

18:37

a whole way in which people

18:39

can hide behind identity. Yeah, I

18:42

mean, so I just, believe it

18:44

or not, I just joined. Well,

18:46

you can believe it, because if

18:48

you go on my page, you'll

18:51

see that I have like three

18:53

followers and maybe two of them

18:55

are dogs. I don't know. Like

18:58

I think one of the followers

19:00

recently was actually a

19:02

dog. And not because

19:04

any, there's nothing. evil, like, innately,

19:06

right? Like, there's nothing on the

19:09

planet that I believe is inherently

19:11

good or bad, really. It's just

19:13

what we make of it and

19:16

how the lenses through which we

19:18

choose to interpret things. I didn't

19:20

feel like I knew how to be

19:22

authentic using that particular

19:25

channel of communication, nor

19:27

do I fully receive that way.

19:29

I love conversation, which is why

19:31

I listened to podcasts religiously. I

19:34

wasn't sure in sound bites how

19:36

to represent myself, and I'm still

19:38

not. I mean, I still haven't

19:40

made, like, I think I made

19:43

one video that my seven-year-old at

19:45

the time made for me to

19:47

promote the book. Otherwise, I don't

19:49

do impromptu videos or things

19:51

of that nature. And so,

19:53

sort of understanding that we're

19:55

all just trying to present

19:57

what we feel will ensure.

19:59

and guarantee love and a

20:02

sense of safety is a great starting

20:04

point, you know, any time

20:06

you log on to social

20:08

media. Like, we're all wanting

20:10

the same things. We're all

20:12

wanting to belong in community

20:14

and feel a path or something. Yeah,

20:16

and I feel like, you know, when

20:18

we're talking about these feelings

20:21

or being triggered by trauma

20:23

or not feeling sure, one of

20:25

the things that we, that you

20:27

talk about that has. been a

20:29

big learning experience for me these

20:31

last few years is self-soothing. Because

20:33

often we're led to believe that

20:36

if I get this achievement or

20:38

this validation, like that's how I'm

20:40

going to feel good or I

20:42

can rely on this person to

20:44

making me feel okay. Can you

20:46

share a little bit about some

20:48

of these tools and how you've,

20:51

you know, self-soothed yourself? And I

20:53

also thought it was really interesting

20:55

because we hear about this term

20:57

inner child a lot. But there

20:59

was a term that I had

21:01

never heard of, I wrote it

21:03

down here, shadow parents.

21:05

Because I've said, Shanna, the

21:07

way I parent my children is

21:09

how I wish I was parented.

21:12

Many, many, you know, I tell

21:14

them, I love you because if

21:17

you do nothing for love, like

21:19

I'm almost talking to myself.

21:21

You know, it's really a percent.

21:23

That's how I learned to

21:25

talk to myself. 1,000 percent.

21:27

I mean, it became so simplified

21:30

when I had my son. A, because

21:32

I do love him uncondition.

21:34

My son is 10 right now. He just

21:36

turned 10 and my daughter is 8. She

21:39

just turned 8. And when they were born,

21:41

it was like, oh my gosh, now

21:43

I really do understand this piece of

21:45

love that was so elusive to

21:47

me in the past, which is that,

21:50

does it really matter what you do?

21:52

I'm still going to love you 100

21:54

percent. What I say to my son all

21:56

the time is you were 100% valuable

21:58

at birth, which I... write about in the

22:01

book, there's nothing that can subtract from or

22:03

add to your value as a human, so

22:05

you don't need to impress me. Like, you

22:07

can't change the way I feel about you.

22:10

And the other day, there was something he

22:12

wanted to tell me. It was actually so

22:14

cute and so benign. But like in his

22:16

mind, it was this really big deal, this

22:19

secret that he was hoarding and he was

22:21

afraid to come clean and like sure. It

22:23

was like about, you know, fantasy about a

22:25

dinosaur, whatever. It was so benign. And

22:28

what I said to him was, there's

22:30

nothing you could say to scare

22:32

me. There's nothing you

22:34

could say to drive me away.

22:37

There's nothing you could say to

22:39

make me love you less, and

22:41

there's nothing you could say to

22:43

make me love you more. In

22:45

other words, like, you're safe,

22:47

completely. So in learning to...

22:50

talk to my children and actually

22:52

I didn't have to learn like

22:54

it's the first intuitive thing maybe

22:57

I've ever done yeah is

22:59

communicating with them you know

23:01

I then was able to give that

23:04

same grace to myself so you

23:06

know gosh you're really sad you

23:08

seem really down right now what's

23:10

what's going on and Okay, right

23:12

now I understand that you feel really

23:15

rejected by your friend group, like, doesn't

23:17

mean that you're any less lovable, they're

23:19

just not your people, or they're not

23:21

treating you kindly right now. It's not

23:23

a reflection on who you are. All

23:25

these things that we tell, you know, whether or

23:28

not you have children, you know, I'm sure

23:30

you're telling this to your girlfriend as well,

23:32

or your neighbor, or your coworker, like, we

23:34

all want to be talked to be talked

23:36

to someone we love. And so if we

23:39

can just empower ourselves to have

23:41

that conversation internally instead of waiting

23:43

for the outside to validate us,

23:45

it's incredibly liberating. It's a

23:47

huge time-saver. And it also makes your

23:50

relationships a lot more fluid because you're

23:52

not sucking the life force out of

23:54

the people you love and are reliant

23:57

on for support. Like now that I'm

23:59

learning. to self-suit, it's been like, you

24:01

know, a very long, long process and

24:04

I'm still very much in the trenches

24:06

of it daily, but I've noticed a

24:08

huge shift even in terms of how

24:10

I interact with my husband because I'm

24:13

not like racing to him to tell

24:15

me I'm okay. I'm offering myself that

24:17

affirmation. Did you? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh

24:20

yeah. And I mean, when I was an

24:22

insomnia, I was still coming out of the

24:24

throes of many decades of insomnia when I

24:26

had my husband. I would sometimes just wake

24:28

him up, like the way a child wakes

24:31

up a parent in the middle of the

24:33

night and saying, like, I can't sleep. You

24:35

know, I have anxiety, I can't sleep. And

24:37

in solidarity, he would just stay awake with

24:39

me because he's that kind of guy. But,

24:42

you know, you know, the point being that.

24:44

I for sure was looking to

24:46

him for affirmation and just

24:48

to basically say you're okay.

24:50

Ultimately, the message I always

24:52

want to hear is you're

24:54

lovable, you're enough, and you're

24:56

okay exactly as you are

24:58

in this moment. Like you

25:00

don't have to do anything

25:03

or become anything more to be

25:05

the person who I love. We say that

25:07

in theory, but then we

25:09

don't necessarily feel it. Just

25:11

like how you were saying,

25:13

we can understand maybe what

25:15

happened to us as children,

25:18

but our bodies still feel

25:20

like they're not integrating

25:22

this awareness in a way that

25:25

brings calm and a sense of

25:27

safety on a cellular level. Yes.

25:29

You know, I think it's a

25:31

long, it's been for me a

25:34

long time of understanding that. that

25:36

is actually true that I am enough

25:38

that it's more than just words that

25:40

I'm speaking to myself and that and

25:42

part of how I've proven that to

25:44

myself is that I'm doing a lot

25:46

of the things I set out to

25:48

do that I thought would make me

25:50

feel enough and I don't feel any

25:52

different like I feel exactly the same

25:55

exactly and so it's like okay I mean

25:57

this is all beautiful and the things

25:59

that were you know, creating and

26:01

accomplishing and whatnot, but like fundamentally

26:03

I'm the same person. And so

26:06

those messages that we tell our

26:08

children again, like if we can

26:10

just very simply return the favor to

26:12

ourselves, can help us stay really clear

26:14

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28:01

And one of the things

28:03

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28:05

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28:07

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28:09

So that means drinking hot

28:11

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28:13

room temperature water. And what

28:15

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29:35

grounded and again this word

29:37

present right Shawna because you

29:39

know my husband I didn't

29:41

know that I had some of

29:43

these deeper traumas and triggers until

29:45

we were married and then things

29:48

would come up and then because

29:50

of that love and this is

29:52

where I think the relationship can

29:54

be such a powerful mirror it

29:56

made me really see and then I

29:59

really got deep into this heart workwork

30:01

and heart coherence and it was, you

30:03

know, to your point about being in

30:05

your head and disconnected from the body.

30:07

I could have all sorts of stories

30:10

that weren't really present. Well, things that

30:12

had happened. But when I got here and

30:14

I would breathe and then I could

30:16

actually feel what was happening and no,

30:18

I wasn't it. It could, it started

30:20

to metabolize, you know, as you said,

30:22

things are really stored in the nervous

30:25

system, they're stored in patterns, the neural

30:27

circuitry between the heart and the heart

30:29

and the brain. and the brain itself,

30:31

there's so much going on in our

30:33

bodies, but in that moment, these are

30:36

opportunities to really heal when we're

30:38

in it. Absolutely, and to just

30:40

instead of judging ourselves for not

30:42

being where we want to be,

30:44

like that's an invitation for more

30:47

grace and more compassion and more

30:49

patience. It's so sad what we

30:51

do to ourselves in terms

30:53

of shaming, you know, our emotional

30:55

bodies for having a certain reaction. But

30:57

if we can use, if we can

30:59

sort of non-judgmentally step back and go,

31:02

wow, I'm struggling, I feel like a

31:04

little goal right now, I feel very

31:06

vulnerable and very unsafe, and so I'm

31:09

creating this drama or I'm reacting in

31:11

a way that is making me feel

31:13

uncomfortable or the people around me uncomfortable,

31:16

if we can just pause and go, wow, it

31:18

seems like what you need right

31:20

now is a little more love,

31:23

a little more TLC, not more

31:25

judgment and shape, which is... You

31:27

know also very relevant to the

31:30

conversation about perfectionism. Yes, very know

31:32

It's like we don't we don't

31:34

relieve ourselves from perfectionistic tendencies by

31:37

being a harder on ourselves and

31:39

more in judgment How could you

31:41

be so perfectionist and rigid and

31:44

you're not flexible? You know those

31:46

kinds of shaming thoughts only drag

31:48

us deeper into the ways that

31:50

we don't want to be Yeah,

31:52

so I think the freedom is

31:54

in accessing the grace and the

31:56

compassion in the moments we feel

31:58

like the least. fit for consumption

32:01

publicly or internally, you

32:03

know. And so some of these

32:06

really important tools that are

32:08

simple and fundamental that we

32:10

talked about even a few

32:12

times here are awareness. Sometimes

32:15

we don't even know we're in

32:17

trigger until we can start to

32:19

be aware, hey, I'm really clenching

32:21

up or I'm tightening or knowing

32:23

what's, you know, what kind of

32:25

thoughts are starting to come up

32:28

and pausing. I think pausing is

32:30

just key to everything in life.

32:32

When you take the pause, I

32:34

think they say it's like 90

32:36

seconds. If you can just wait

32:38

90 seconds to say to blurt

32:40

out the thing that you impulsively

32:42

want to say when you're, when

32:44

you feel like you've been, you

32:46

know, wronged by someone or whatever.

32:49

Yeah, the pause is huge. I mean,

32:51

the pause I think is also where

32:53

we give ourselves freedom just to be

32:55

us. and to not feel like we have

32:58

to go and go and do and

33:00

do in order to be validated. Like

33:02

just being, I mean, actually a friend

33:04

said this to me and I really

33:06

didn't believe him at the time, but

33:08

I remembered the words and they've haunted

33:10

me for years as I've tried to

33:12

believe them. And I think actually

33:14

I'm starting to the past few

33:16

years, but a friend said to me

33:19

20 years ago, just you being on

33:21

this planet is enough. the fact

33:23

that you're here that you've arrived at

33:25

this moment in history and that you're

33:28

going to be in the presence of

33:30

whoever needs your light like you've done

33:32

your job just by being here

33:34

yeah and it was so

33:37

counterintuitive to me at the time

33:39

and still I've spent years trying

33:41

to prove my my place here but

33:43

often in the pause that's where

33:45

I get my ideas that's where

33:47

the song melody melody emerges that's

33:50

where I feel like the line

33:52

of the book just kind of

33:54

presents itself to me versus me

33:56

having to strive for it and

33:59

to chase it. And so there's

34:01

a lot of beauty in the

34:03

pause. Of course, if you're plagued

34:05

by anxiety, pauses can feel very

34:07

scary, which is why we often

34:10

distract ourselves and go on hyper-speed

34:12

and hyper-drive. They're like the gaps,

34:14

scrolling. So how would we transition

34:17

China, let's say, you know,

34:19

coming from a background of

34:21

anxiety to be more comfortable

34:23

in pauses and to learn,

34:25

maybe, you know, for many

34:27

of us the first time,

34:29

how to self-sooth, how to

34:31

move from, you know, an agitated

34:34

state with some of the

34:36

tools? that you present. I

34:38

think of course it's so

34:40

basic but it all like

34:42

all of the most beautiful

34:44

and effective modalities are just

34:47

starting with a pause in a

34:49

breath. So that we can center

34:51

our nervous systems having

34:53

that awareness to understand okay

34:55

we're I'm now eight years old

34:58

I'm now ten years old. Yeah

35:00

exactly. This is from the

35:02

past. And then bringing the grace

35:04

and compassion of that really kind,

35:06

positive, supportive internal narrative that says

35:08

you're enough exactly as you are

35:10

right now, who you are in

35:12

this moment in time, and what

35:14

you're presenting isn't ugly. Like there's

35:16

no shame in being human. It's

35:19

just, it's what you are. It's

35:21

what we all are all the

35:23

time. And there's absolutely nothing to

35:25

be embarrassed about, you know, and

35:27

if you can let yourself tune

35:29

into the anxiety... and then breathe

35:31

love into the parts of you

35:33

that feel tight. Like, you know,

35:36

for me, for many years, I

35:38

had a lot of stomach issues

35:40

in my youth. That was just

35:42

where I stored my voicelessness, my

35:44

anxiety, my stress, my sense of

35:46

helplessness, real or perceived. It was all

35:49

kind of in my gut. Yeah.

35:51

And so now I very consciously,

35:53

if I feel like there's tension

35:55

in my shoulders or my chest

35:57

and my stomach, I actually focus

35:59

on the... channeling the breath and

36:01

sort of delivering the breath to

36:03

that specific part of my body

36:06

and feeling it expand and feeling

36:08

it widen and giving it that

36:10

spaciousness to breathe and relaxing for

36:12

a moment in the pause and

36:14

then telling that part of myself

36:16

what it needs to hear whatever

36:18

it is like you're safe right

36:21

now you have everything you need

36:23

or everything is going to work

36:25

out as you go you'll discover

36:27

the tools and the answers that

36:29

you're looking for. or exactly the

36:31

right people are going to end

36:34

to your life exactly the right

36:36

time to lead you to where

36:38

you want to be and where

36:40

you're going next or you were

36:42

born to feel peaceful. Yeah. And

36:44

it's your right to access peace

36:46

even in this moment when things

36:49

feel unresolved and there's a great

36:51

deal of unknown you deserve and

36:53

are allowed to feel peaceful in

36:55

this very moment exactly as you

36:57

are with what you know and

36:59

what you don't know. Yeah. kind

37:02

of soothing dialogue so that it

37:04

becomes more instinctual to pause, breathe,

37:06

send spaciousness and love to the

37:08

parts of you that are clenching

37:10

or bracing or in survival mode,

37:12

and then tell yourself the thing

37:14

that you would hope someone else

37:17

would tell you. I love that.

37:19

I also say, Shanna, if I'm

37:21

in conversation with someone and something

37:23

like this happens, what's also been

37:25

helpful for me, that's a newer

37:27

tool, though, is actually giving myself

37:30

permission to say, hold on a

37:32

second, I just need a moment.

37:34

I just, hold on, just, I

37:36

just need a moment, or I

37:38

just got to, you know, I'm

37:40

going to go to the bathroom

37:42

really quick or get water just

37:45

to actually, in that moment, take

37:47

care. when I'm feeling really major,

37:49

which doesn't only happen, but when

37:51

it does, you know. Well, it's

37:53

such a gift to the other

37:55

person. Like in a moment. it

37:58

might feel kind of indulgent, but

38:00

it's actually a gift to you

38:02

and to the other person because

38:04

you're going to be approaching the

38:06

conversation with a perspective that's more

38:08

informed and less reactive if you

38:10

give yourself that pause. I'll never

38:13

forget Kimberly actually in college. I

38:15

went to a concert. It was

38:17

like this old school, bluesy. I

38:19

went to school on South Carolina

38:21

and it was like this blue

38:23

grassy kind of festival. There was

38:26

this kind of John Foger-esque musician

38:28

on stage and he took so

38:30

much time tuning his guitar. And

38:32

he was like, it was a

38:34

huge audience. And he was up

38:36

there like, just taking his, just

38:39

like he was on his front

38:41

porch with no one waiting or

38:43

watching. And I just kept going,

38:45

like, this just keeps going on

38:47

and on. And the beginning of

38:49

the show or in between. This

38:51

was at the beginning of the

38:54

show. He was tuning as a

38:56

guitar. And it was just like

38:58

the silence under this tent. And

39:00

we're all watching. And I remember

39:02

just thinking to myself, this man

39:04

is embodied. This man has such

39:07

high self-esteem. He's not in a

39:09

rush because we're waiting for him.

39:11

He is giving himself, and the

39:13

reason he was doing that was

39:15

because the humidity and the tent

39:17

and everything kept kind of shifting.

39:19

If you're a musician, you understand,

39:22

like you have to sort of

39:24

retoon your instrument in real time.

39:26

And so he just wanted to

39:28

get it right so he could

39:30

perform his ass off, which he

39:32

did. and he gave us his

39:35

all when he you know at

39:37

that moment of of bursting his

39:39

voice but goodness the labor was

39:41

long and I remember thinking I

39:43

remember thinking I would have been

39:45

so agitated and nervous about what

39:47

people in the audience were expecting

39:50

and I would have felt rushed

39:52

and that would have created a

39:54

certain level of anxiety and this

39:56

man was just like this is

39:58

what I gotta do right now

40:00

I got to tune my instrument

40:03

so I can be present and

40:05

perform and he did not there

40:07

was not a nervous bone in

40:09

his body and I was literally

40:11

19 when I saw the show

40:13

and I could it felt like

40:15

it happened yesterday the way it

40:18

imprinted on my on my soul

40:20

my nervous system because there was

40:22

this ownership over his craft and

40:24

his decision-making which at the time

40:26

I really didn't feel like I

40:28

had. you know this like you

40:31

were saying this sort of impulse

40:33

to please others in this instinct

40:35

to always be sort of scanning

40:37

for a dangerous situation which might

40:39

include like people's responses to you

40:41

or feel right about you or

40:43

thoughts about you like that's a

40:46

perceived danger for those of us

40:48

with anxiety and he just didn't

40:50

have that and so I think

40:52

giving yourself permission to give your

40:54

body and your mind and your

40:56

soul and your heart, whatever it

40:59

needs in the moment, to tune,

41:01

to get in tune, you know,

41:03

to like, to get your instrument,

41:05

like where it needs to be.

41:07

It's such a valuable lesson and

41:09

that may be a sip of

41:11

water, it might be a nap,

41:14

it might be time alone, more

41:16

sleep. Absolutely. There are

41:18

many ways in which we need

41:20

to pause to tune our instrument.

41:22

And that allowance really benefits all

41:24

of our relationships because we don't

41:26

want to ultimately show up and

41:28

then bring a version of ourselves

41:30

that's resentful because we want to

41:32

be in our lounge wear, like

41:34

watching Ali McBeal reruns. I recently

41:36

started watching Ali McBeal from the

41:39

90s. I never saw it in

41:41

the 90s. So it's like my

41:43

reference now for everything. Like all

41:45

I talk about is watching out

41:47

of my photographs because I'm watching

41:49

it for the first time. It's

41:51

so exciting. But anyways, the point

41:53

is, there are times now where

41:55

I will just call a girlfriend

41:57

and say, I was so... forward

41:59

to seeing you and actually what

42:01

I need to do today is

42:03

nothing. Would you mind if you're

42:05

rescheduled? And it creates so much

42:08

freedom and liberation and relationships where

42:10

you can be honest with people,

42:12

but it starts with being honest

42:14

with yourself. And then when you

42:16

give yourself what you need and

42:18

you model to others that you're

42:20

responding in real time to what's

42:22

actually happening, it gives them permission

42:24

to do the same. Just like

42:26

you sharing your story. You know,

42:28

I was listening to one of

42:30

your podcasts recently and you talking

42:32

about, you know, your relationship with

42:34

food and the complexity of that.

42:37

It's like you're giving other people

42:39

a hall pass to not only

42:41

acknowledge, but to openly share what

42:43

they've been through. So in such

42:45

a vulnerable, powerful way that could

42:47

unlock. freedom for so many people.

42:49

So when we own and value

42:51

our own truth, like we're giving

42:53

people a service that's unimaginable. We

42:55

don't even know how canceling a

42:57

lunch because we want to watch

42:59

an Ali McBeal rerun might empower

43:01

someone or inspire someone to quit

43:03

their job. You know, or quit

43:05

a relationship that isn't working. Isn't

43:08

that amazing? Just to be it,

43:10

like use the word embody to

43:12

not just talk about something but

43:14

to actually live it. And you

43:16

and I were chatting Shana just

43:18

before we got on about Hawaii

43:20

and I was sharing how we

43:22

spent a lot of time there

43:24

and we just got back yesterday.

43:26

And I could just feel that

43:28

this trip in particular, I really

43:30

needed to reset my nervous system

43:32

from the fires. There's a lot

43:34

going on with Saluna with my

43:37

company or after lunch or new

43:39

website and we're just so much

43:41

happening with the rebrand and everything.

43:43

But as soon as I got

43:45

there. I said to my team,

43:47

I said, I'm going to be

43:49

offline this week. This is something

43:51

I had planned for. But then

43:53

with my kids, we just, we

43:55

have this porch that just looks

43:57

out over the jungle basically and

43:59

we have the cow fields and

44:01

we. really didn't plan. Shana, we

44:03

were just in the forest for

44:06

hours and just did the waterfall.

44:08

I would just stare at the

44:10

water and kind of look around

44:12

and it was very healing to

44:14

not be in scheduled energy. And

44:16

I know we don't always have

44:18

that freedom to take, you know.

44:20

time to do that, but I

44:22

think even in everyday life, it

44:24

is really soothing to just be

44:26

and to carve out more space

44:28

and to your point, not say

44:30

yes to everything, to let ourselves

44:32

take a really long bath, just

44:35

to take that Saturday morning to,

44:37

you know, paddle around her. Yeah,

44:39

just not always this pace of

44:41

on, right, the perfectionist, or the,

44:43

you know, where we get burned

44:45

out is like, like, I always

44:47

have to fill this time. And

44:49

then our life is, or giving

44:51

away our life constantly. Yeah, and

44:53

it's also just sort of this

44:55

reframing of societal expectations that are

44:57

so, like, I don't even know,

44:59

I mean, I do know Industrial

45:01

Revolution, blah, blah. Okay, so we

45:04

can look at history as to

45:06

why we have this manic pace,

45:08

but I feel like my most

45:10

productive, beautiful offerings to

45:12

others and to myself have. largely

45:14

been born out of space and

45:16

out of the moments between the

45:18

moments where I'm technically being productive.

45:21

Like for me, nothing is more

45:23

productive than rifling through a kitchen

45:25

drawer and disposing of like, you

45:27

know, whatever the plastic fork that

45:29

doesn't need to be like in

45:32

that moment, like I was saying

45:34

before the melody is born or

45:36

like the. the line of the

45:38

poem. I just wrote a book

45:40

of poetry, which I'm now completely

45:43

convinced that I just want to

45:45

spend my whole life puttering and

45:47

writing poetry and not like running

45:49

a business. But anyway, that's for

45:51

a different conversation. But I feel

45:54

like so much of my organic

45:56

wisdom and my innate knowing and

45:58

the ease. flow of adaptivity and

46:00

creativity and birth and just the

46:02

juicy deliciousness of everything we're meant

46:05

to feel and experience and create

46:07

comes from doing absolutely nothing so

46:09

much of the time and I'm

46:11

saying this as a working mother

46:13

yes you know I wrote a

46:16

book I have a business I

46:18

have no child care for my

46:20

children I am I'm not suggesting

46:22

that people have the luxury of

46:24

just kind of floating around in

46:26

their jambies all the time. I

46:29

certainly don't. But I will say

46:31

the moments I give myself permission

46:33

to when I'm able to and

46:35

to not over schedule myself, so

46:37

much more happens. So much more.

46:40

So much more. And it's almost,

46:42

it seems counterintuitive. It's like the

46:44

first time I read the Dow

46:46

and it's, you know, there's a

46:48

line that says do nothing and

46:51

then nothing. gets undone or everything

46:53

gets, I'm modeling the words, but

46:55

it's basically in the not doing

46:57

everything that you want actually happened.

46:59

Right, I'll have to read the

47:02

exact wording. I read it over

47:04

and over again and now it

47:06

has more meaning to your point

47:08

of this like pace and constricting

47:10

and pushing actually constricts our creativity

47:13

and our energy and our wellness.

47:15

And then this basically is abundance.

47:17

Right, because it's so much of

47:19

it's in us. It's like we're

47:21

looking to the outside for tools

47:24

and answers. And I hope and

47:26

pray that my book provides wisdom

47:28

and modalities that support people. But

47:30

my book is called You Are

47:32

the Boss of You, because you

47:35

are the boss of you. Like

47:37

I'm only pointing people ultimately to

47:39

their own innate knowing anyway. I'm

47:41

helping people hopefully deconstruct. the things

47:43

that keep them from having access

47:45

to that internal wisdom that we're

47:48

born with and that we die

47:50

with. And so, you know, similarly,

47:52

it's like everything that we are

47:54

going to create is in us

47:56

already. And we just need to

47:59

give ourselves. time and space to

48:01

breathe through it like that old

48:03

time he, you know, blues guitarist

48:05

on the stage who just took

48:08

his time. He took his time

48:10

and then this beautiful thing happened

48:12

because he wasn't in a rush.

48:15

Yeah, permission. And if you know,

48:17

anyone listening to this Shana,

48:19

because I think of myself, you

48:22

know, 10, 12 years ago, like

48:24

hustling around New York and, you

48:26

know, teaching yoga clients and

48:28

having nutrition clients and just

48:30

like always on writing my

48:33

books at night I'd listen

48:35

and probably say you're right

48:37

ladies like easy for you to

48:40

say I can't do that I

48:42

would challenge myself back then and

48:44

even look you know the times where

48:46

I was just sort of you know

48:48

adding in extra yeah Because I

48:50

think if we really look, there

48:53

are these moments, no matter how

48:55

busy we are, we're both working

48:57

mothers. And still, I find a

48:59

lot of spaciousness. Yes, and it

49:02

is a decision. It really is.

49:04

I think if you'd make the

49:06

decision, then you can start to

49:08

consciously curate your life in small,

49:11

very small, but monumental ways. Change

49:13

doesn't have to be huge to

49:15

be amazingly impactful and to change

49:17

your life in ways that are

49:20

profound. So tiny, tiny moments that

49:22

you take for yourself might amount

49:24

to huge opportunities in your future.

49:26

But it's also like a question

49:29

to me of like why? Why?

49:31

So if I choose to move

49:33

quickly through a day, because that's

49:35

my chosen rhythm, or because I

49:37

want to agree to five things

49:39

that feel exciting to me, and

49:42

I'm energized and pumped about it,

49:44

and it gives me life, and

49:46

makes me feel activated, then that

49:48

is an amazing choice for that

49:50

day. But if I'm going and

49:52

going and doing and doing just

49:54

because either that's what I've habituated

49:56

to, or because I feel like

49:58

I feel low. in the gaps

50:01

in between or like I'm not

50:03

being useful or productive, then our

50:05

motivation for being busy changes, right?

50:07

So it's like I think just

50:09

having agency in your life, a

50:11

huge part of ownership is just

50:13

acknowledging why? Why are you making

50:15

the choices you're making about your

50:17

time or your sleep or your

50:19

schedule? Like is it coming from

50:21

a place of fear that you're

50:23

going to be missing out on

50:25

something? Do you have FOMO about

50:28

not getting to the next level

50:30

in your career or not being

50:32

invited to the dinner party? Or

50:34

is it because you generally want

50:36

to be agreeing to certain things?

50:38

Exactly. And to your point, Sean,

50:40

are these small steps. And I

50:42

love how it relates to being

50:44

the boss of me. One thing. that

50:46

just came to mind that's really been

50:48

impactful is not answering everybody the moment

50:50

they text me or the email and

50:53

then just sort of it just sort

50:55

of throws me off my rhythm. I

50:57

need the spaciousness. So maybe in a

50:59

few hours or at the end of

51:01

the day I'll text back, you know,

51:03

related to work or whatever it

51:06

is, you know, just a bunch of

51:08

people at once. And I said this

51:10

to my husband because I noticed he's

51:12

like always on there. burned out and

51:14

I said you don't have to answer

51:16

everybody back like that's their schedule and

51:19

then we right this is the one

51:21

of the biggest things so for me

51:23

texting is very similar to social media

51:25

where it's like I want to play

51:28

it by my rules I don't want

51:30

to fall into a trap of doing

51:32

things that people expect me to do

51:35

in any era of my life I

51:37

want to do what I feel authentically

51:39

is going to motivate me to feel

51:41

the most myself and the most empowered

51:44

and the most alive. So for me,

51:46

technology and being on my phone

51:48

all the time is not that.

51:50

And it's interesting, like we teach

51:52

people how to treat us. And

51:54

so, and that's true as well

51:56

in terms of our communication styles

51:59

and patterns. the rhythm that we established

52:01

for our lives. So for instance, my

52:03

girlfriends know that I'm not going to

52:05

show up to every dinner I'm invited

52:07

to, even if everyone else is there,

52:09

and I still want the invite. So

52:11

they will invite me. And they'll say

52:13

this, like, Sean, we know you're going

52:15

to say no because it's at 9

52:17

o'clock reservation, but you know, we're going

52:19

to dinner Thursday night. My friends also

52:22

know I will not text back right

52:24

away. if it's not part of the

52:26

rhythm, and they no longer personalize it.

52:28

So I think that part of the

52:30

problem in life in general is that

52:32

we attach meaning to things, right? And

52:34

we start projecting the why onto other

52:37

people. And it's like, I tend

52:39

to think everyone's mad at me for

52:41

no reason because of my childhood

52:43

trauma. So like, if someone doesn't respond

52:45

back away. Right away, I too will

52:48

have that response. Like, oh, did I

52:50

say something in a previous conversation? Are

52:52

they mad at me? And like, you

52:54

know, I'll go to drop off my

52:56

kids at school and I'll come home

52:58

and say to my husband, I feel

53:00

like so and so is not at

53:02

me like this mom. And he'll go,

53:05

maybe she just like is constipated. Like

53:07

that base might have nothing to do

53:09

with you. Like, why are you making

53:11

it about you? That's such a sort

53:13

of self-absorbed absorbedorbed way to... internalize other

53:15

people's response for just like how they're

53:18

being in the world. So, and by the

53:20

way, it's like, and I know that when

53:22

I ignore other people on social media

53:24

or on my phone, it's not because I'm

53:26

upset with them, it's because. I'm just taking

53:28

time to do other things as nothing to

53:31

do with my feelings about that person. In

53:33

fact, I love the people in my life

53:35

so much that when I show up, I

53:37

want it to be with my whole heart

53:39

and my whole self. And I can't do

53:41

that if I'm spread too thin and if

53:44

I'm responding quickly right away to everything that

53:46

comes in. So in other words, we do

53:48

teach people how to treat us. So if

53:50

you just say to people. Look, I

53:52

am like in this rhythm now in my life where

53:54

it might take a couple days for me to get

53:57

back to you and I want you to know it's

53:59

not about you. This is just what

54:01

my body needs to stay

54:03

calibrated and integrate everything else

54:05

that's going on in my

54:07

world right now. And if we

54:09

just all stop personalizing it, we

54:12

will be able to honor ourselves

54:14

and also just create sort of

54:16

comfort and mutual support

54:18

in relationships. So Sean, there was

54:20

this colleague like this woman that

54:23

I emailed with and she would

54:25

email me and then I wouldn't

54:27

respond. right away because that's my pace

54:29

and then by the next day she'd

54:32

be texting me hey did you see

54:34

my email did you see my email

54:36

and at first I found it very

54:38

jarring and a little bit we

54:40

get annoyed and like I felt

54:43

very invasive but you know this

54:45

chapter that you wrote about boundaries

54:47

and just being really clear and

54:49

you could be loving and kind

54:51

and firm so I just said to her

54:53

you know I don't right back right away.

54:56

I've got a lot of things going

54:58

on sometimes and I will get back

55:00

to you. And then she stopped being

55:02

so, because that's her pace, right? And

55:04

I don't want to line to it.

55:06

And I also can feel safe even

55:08

when people try to intrude on

55:11

boundaries that, you know, we just have

55:13

to be clear because that used to

55:15

not feel like my trauma and

55:17

my nervous system when people would

55:19

try to overstep because we live

55:22

in a world where people are

55:24

they can try to overstep and it's

55:26

still okay we can be here for

55:28

us. Yeah it takes a lot to

55:30

develop that self-trust but what a get

55:32

like I think the ultimate goal in life

55:35

is to trust yourself enough to take

55:37

care of yourself right to be your

55:39

own parent to be honest you can

55:41

be honest and and you can do

55:44

it in the most loving and kind

55:46

way and set the expectations early on

55:48

and be very clear like I thank

55:50

you so much for getting in touch.

55:53

I really value the communication, however. My

55:55

rhythm is it sometimes takes me a

55:57

few days to respond to people. I

56:00

appreciate your patience as I handle

56:02

you know life's demands and we'll

56:04

circle back around soon and and

56:06

just to cut and then you

56:08

and if they respond and some

56:11

people then will respond again right

56:13

like even though you've created that

56:15

boundary and then you just don't

56:17

email back because you've already said

56:19

your piece right and so if

56:22

people if friends text much a

56:24

time they say you know I'm

56:26

in the middle of writing an

56:28

essay or I'm in the most

56:30

thing and then they're continuing to

56:33

text, I just don't respond back.

56:35

And then I have to be

56:37

comfortable with the fact that they

56:39

might be annoyed because they're in

56:41

their own story about what they

56:44

need for their own, you know,

56:46

satisfaction, right? So everyone's just trying

56:48

to get their own needs met.

56:50

And so they might override your

56:52

boundaries in order to feel safe

56:55

themselves or heard or seen. And

56:57

that's okay. Like in the words

56:59

of a minute of butcher, is

57:01

it Mel something? Mel Robbins wrote

57:03

a book recently and I haven't

57:06

read it, but my understanding is

57:08

that it's basically about letting people

57:10

have whatever experience, they're how that

57:12

you can't control them anyway, is

57:14

the reality, right? Like you can't

57:17

control what people are going to

57:19

think of you. So just do

57:21

you and allow other people to

57:23

be in their own world of

57:25

reactivity. Yes, it's true. It's so

57:27

beautiful. When we are clear, really

57:30

clear with our own boundaries and

57:32

what we own, and then we

57:34

say, you know, this isn't mine.

57:36

Because that was it. It could

57:38

feel messy and like, oh, now

57:41

they're annoyed or bending the boundary

57:43

because you don't want to create

57:45

friction between you and another person.

57:47

You know, which is where the

57:49

self soothing becomes so paramount, Kimberly,

57:52

right? Because I avoided creating boundaries

57:54

for many years because I didn't

57:56

want to deal with how I

57:58

would feel if people. responded negatively

58:00

to that boundary, just like you

58:03

were saying. So if I didn't

58:05

want people to be disappointed with

58:07

me, ashamed of their own behavior,

58:09

I mean, I was even protecting

58:11

people from their own shame about

58:14

how they were being in the

58:16

world. I didn't want people to

58:18

be disappointed or angry. Like, there's

58:20

just a million things that I

58:22

was trying to buffer because I

58:25

didn't trust myself to work through

58:27

the discomfort of another person having

58:29

their experience. You know, and now

58:31

it's like just stay in your

58:33

lane. I just tell myself, it

58:36

is none of your business what

58:38

someone thinks of you right now

58:40

or how they're feeling about you.

58:42

That's their own projection, attitude, perception.

58:44

Maybe it's legitimate, maybe it's not,

58:47

maybe there's some validity to how

58:49

they're responding and there's something you

58:51

can take a deeper look at.

58:53

Maybe it's all about their needs

58:55

not getting met as children. Like,

58:58

right now, my sole concern. is

59:00

taking care of myself. And if

59:02

there's something for me to reflect

59:04

on, I will do so at

59:06

exactly the right time. I will

59:09

input that feedback. I will filter

59:11

it through my own lenses of

59:13

what feels true and accurate and

59:15

right to me. And I will

59:17

either use it to evolve and

59:20

grow or I'll set it aside

59:22

and say, hey, that's your story.

59:24

It's not mine. beautifully said and

59:26

really feels empowering as you describe

59:28

it, which I feel like through

59:31

all these tools, so many tools

59:33

and so much you explain in

59:35

the books on and share. And

59:37

I also like that it's not,

59:39

hey, do you know this is

59:42

you really say that this is

59:44

my journey here are some of

59:46

the things that have helped me

59:48

but everybody is on their own

59:50

healing journey back to homelessness so

59:52

some of the tools may resonate

59:55

more than others it may open

59:57

open us up to explore other

59:59

ones but what a beautiful way

1:00:01

to share and really support others

1:00:03

through this this book shanna once

1:00:06

again called you are the boss

1:00:08

of you, cultivate the mindset and

1:00:10

tools to live life on your

1:00:12

terms. Is there anything that we

1:00:14

didn't talk about with the book

1:00:17

that you'd like to share with

1:00:19

everyone? I just wanted to share

1:00:21

the chapter breakdown briefly so that

1:00:23

people kind of understand the scope

1:00:25

of what's being covered so it's

1:00:28

defining boundaries soothing yourself softening perfectionism

1:00:30

redefining yourself concept honoring sleep healing

1:00:32

trauma feeling at all which is

1:00:34

basically permission to feel feeling all

1:00:36

of your feelings creating your rhythm

1:00:39

advocating for yourself and building your

1:00:41

future So it's these 10 sort

1:00:43

of core themes that will hopefully

1:00:45

help you build your life from

1:00:47

the Inside Out. And also there's

1:00:50

a workbook I created for it,

1:00:52

Kimberly, that can be found on

1:00:54

my personal website, helloshana.com. And the

1:00:56

workbook can be just easily downloaded.

1:00:58

It's front and center on the

1:01:01

landing page. And it's all of

1:01:03

these very actionable tools. exercises sort

1:01:05

of woven throughout the book. But

1:01:07

the workbook is, you know, many,

1:01:09

many, many, many, many pages of

1:01:12

exercises and tools that are super

1:01:14

easy to implement, don't require more

1:01:16

than a pen and paper or

1:01:18

nothing at all to really kind

1:01:20

of integrate and make more actionable

1:01:23

some of what we're discussing in

1:01:25

the book. Oh, thank you so

1:01:27

much for offering these tools and

1:01:29

we will link directly to that

1:01:31

in our show notes at my

1:01:34

saluna.com as well as your book,

1:01:36

Shana. Thank you so much for

1:01:38

being here with us today and

1:01:40

sharing your heart, your really authentic

1:01:42

intentions to support others and your

1:01:45

journey appreciated so much. I appreciate

1:01:47

you too. I really appreciate your

1:01:49

vulnerability and your transparency and just

1:01:51

want to say again that when

1:01:53

you speak your truth you give

1:01:56

other people permission to share theirs

1:01:58

and even in listening to your

1:02:00

podcast I feel your heart come

1:02:02

through on every level. So thank

1:02:04

you so much for what you've

1:02:07

given to me personally and to

1:02:09

the world. Your offering is ultimately

1:02:11

your heart and it's huge. Thank

1:02:13

you so much, Shauna. Thank you,

1:02:15

Kimberly. It's so wonderful to connect

1:02:18

and these are the type of

1:02:20

heartfelt conversations that I really just

1:02:22

appreciate so deeply. So. Once again,

1:02:24

everyone, please check out our show

1:02:26

notes. Please check out, ah, Sean

1:02:28

has a wonderful book for the

1:02:31

boss of you. And we will

1:02:33

be back here Thursday as always

1:02:35

for our next Q&A show. Remember

1:02:37

on our website, you can submit

1:02:39

any questions that you have and

1:02:42

hopefully I will answer them on

1:02:44

an upcoming show. So take great

1:02:46

care, sending you so much love

1:02:48

and see you back here soon.

1:03:10

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