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2:00

ever have a story that

2:02

you just can't get out

2:04

of your head? One that

2:06

you play the details of

2:09

over and over with your

2:11

friends. Well, you've come to

2:13

the right place. I'm Claire.

2:15

And I'm Susan. And this

2:17

is Justice Pending. A weekly

2:19

true crime podcast where we

2:21

discuss tantalizing crimes with more

2:24

questions and answers. Thanks for

2:26

joining us. Here

2:31

we are. And this has

2:33

been quite the adventure to

2:35

get this episode recorded today.

2:37

We've been going all over

2:39

the world, you and me,

2:41

doing a million things, but

2:44

we had to talk about

2:46

this case because there's finally

2:48

been an arrest. Like so

2:50

many updates and oh my

2:52

goodness, the details that keep

2:54

coming out are just bonkers.

2:57

They really are. And we,

2:59

you know, normally we talk

3:01

like a million times a

3:03

day, as we say, and

3:05

we have not talked so

3:08

that we could have the

3:10

true blue genuine first reactions

3:12

to all of this news.

3:14

Oh my goodness. I mean,

3:16

I have been privately just

3:18

trying to catch the news

3:21

snippets, updates, wherever I can.

3:23

It's, like I said, bonkers.

3:25

So, okay, let's dive in.

3:27

So there's been an arrest

3:29

in the United Health Care

3:31

assassination of Brian Thompson. Luigi

3:34

Mangioni age 26 was arrested

3:36

on December 9th while eating

3:38

at McDonald's in Al tuna

3:40

Pennsylvania. An employee recognized him.

3:42

Wait, can we just pause

3:44

here to commend this McDonald's

3:47

employee? But also, I mean,

3:49

I am thrilled for whoever

3:51

this is to get that

3:53

reward money. I'm thrilled they

3:55

kicked up the reward amount

3:58

and I am I can't

4:00

wait for this person to

4:02

receive it. I am just

4:04

so happy for that person.

4:06

Yes, a $50,000 reward announced

4:08

by the FBI. The initial

4:11

reward was only 10,000 from

4:13

NYPD. So this is a

4:15

significant amount of money. Congratulations

4:17

to the McDonald's employee who

4:19

went to work and found

4:21

a fugitive. Maybe you call

4:24

it women's intuition, I don't

4:26

know. I feel like. Would

4:29

you just doubt your, would you look

4:31

at someone randomly in the small town

4:33

of Pennsylvania and be like, oh yeah,

4:36

that's the guy? Like, I don't know

4:38

that I would, I don't know that

4:40

I would trust myself that much to

4:42

look. Do you know what I'm saying?

4:45

Like, I don't, I do. And to

4:47

believe that that was what my eyes

4:49

were showing me, that that was really

4:52

the person. And to make a call,

4:54

because if it's a false alarm and

4:56

you have police officers storming your McDonald's

4:59

to interrogate one of your guests, That's

5:01

a bad look if it's not if

5:03

it's not true. I know and so

5:05

I understand he walked in with a

5:08

mask and so maybe that was his

5:10

downfall because most of the pictures had

5:12

or all the pictures except for the

5:15

one when he was checking into the

5:17

hospital had been with the mask on

5:19

and the hood up so if he

5:22

was still in his uniform let's call

5:24

it like on the run uniform maybe

5:26

that gave it away but. still. I

5:29

mean, so many people have bushy eyebrows

5:31

and brown eyes and look Italian. Plenty

5:33

of people have that look. I was

5:35

even, you know, walking around in my

5:38

life today saying like, you know, that

5:40

could have been the guy, that could

5:42

have been the guy. I mean, I

5:45

just, I'm really impressed that the employee

5:47

trusted herself enough to to make the

5:49

call calmly do it because, you know,

5:52

I'm sure that took a lot of,

5:54

I'm sure she was just shaking. I

5:56

mean, who is wants to make that

5:59

phone call, you know, but it really

6:01

worked out. It did. And I have

6:03

to say that McDonald's seems to be

6:05

a pretty popular choice for fugitives. There

6:08

have been a number of high profile

6:10

fugitives. been caught eating at McDonald's. So

6:12

yeah, you get your murder kit, your

6:15

duct tape, and your shovels at Walmart,

6:17

and you go to McDonald's when you

6:19

need to get some sustenance. So that's

6:22

where Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter, was

6:24

seen at McDonald's after the shooting. There

6:26

were other, I think it was the

6:29

New York. subway shooter who was found

6:31

in a McDonald's, I mean McDonald's has

6:33

come up time and time again. Yeah,

6:35

maybe you could feel like you can

6:38

blend, you know, such such a high

6:40

traffic establishment, right in and out and

6:42

yeah, who's paying attention. But wow, this

6:45

one sure was this employee. And to

6:47

think that in 2024 with all the

6:49

high tech facial recognition software that we

6:52

have, license plate readers, we have cameras

6:54

on every corner. Yeah,

6:56

just the actual face to face

6:58

recognition that gets this guy caught.

7:00

It's incredible. I mean, I just

7:03

think it's wonderful. I think it's

7:05

also a credit to the police

7:07

that they spent all that time

7:09

isolating the images that then this,

7:12

you know, this person was pretty

7:14

confident to make that call. I

7:16

just think the whole operation was.

7:18

wonderful and astounding and yes we

7:21

can have all of the robotics

7:23

and AI and everything else known

7:25

to man and yet it's that

7:27

human eye that that does it

7:30

at the end. Amazing. I love

7:32

the line that the arresting officer

7:34

gave Luigi whenever he was first

7:36

questioning him at McDonald's, whenever he

7:39

responded to the tip, they get

7:41

there, the guys in a mask,

7:43

sitting there about to eat, and

7:45

they ask him to remove the

7:48

mask, and then they say, have

7:50

you been to New York recently?

7:52

I mean, what a statement, right?

7:54

Like, I mean, whenever they make

7:57

the movie, and I'm sure they

7:59

will, that's a moment. It's just

8:01

such a bad-ask. say, have you

8:03

been to New York recently and

8:06

know that that's going to strike

8:08

fear into his heart? And apparently,

8:10

he started to shake whenever the

8:12

officer asked him that question. So

8:15

it was definitely not what he

8:17

was hoping to hear while he

8:19

was chomping down on his McDonald's

8:21

breakfast. Well, the interesting

8:24

thing, and we'll get into, I

8:26

guess, the timeline of this in

8:28

a little bit, but the interesting

8:30

thing to me is that it

8:32

wasn't his first time their reporting.

8:35

He had been in the days

8:37

following, so in the six days,

8:39

he had been back and forth

8:41

between Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and places in

8:44

between. So, and he had visited

8:46

Altoona before, and, you know, maybe,

8:48

I don't know, I mean, he

8:50

clearly felt a little more comfortable

8:52

more comfortable on this, on this

8:55

corridor. And I believe he would

8:57

have been familiar with the area

8:59

since they reported that he had

9:01

been a UPenn student. So I

9:04

mean, that's in that neck of

9:06

the woods. So it's just so

9:08

interesting. He goes back to a

9:10

familiar place. People usually do that

9:12

whenever they commit crimes, they usually

9:15

go within 10 miles to dump

9:17

the body. And you wouldn't think

9:19

that. You would think that they

9:21

would go somewhere far away. But

9:24

something about the human psychology makes

9:26

you go to the familiar whenever

9:28

you're scared, whenever you're running. And

9:30

it's really hard to fight that.

9:32

Whenever I was a producer for

9:35

48 hours on CBS, we would

9:37

always see the bodies are found

9:39

in these seemingly random locations. And

9:41

then it turns out that whenever

9:44

you expand the map, The main

9:46

suspect lives in close proximity or

9:48

has a family member that lives

9:50

there or works in the area.

9:52

There's always some connection and it

9:55

it's all about getting that comfort

9:57

zone as strange as that sounds

9:59

for committing a terrible crime but

10:01

I think it was the same

10:04

for Luigi that he wanted to.

10:06

somewhere where he felt comfortable and

10:08

it was the East Coast. I

10:10

mean, he could have very easily

10:12

from New York gotten almost anywhere.

10:15

And I know they had the

10:17

look out, you know, the Canadian

10:19

border, the Mexican border, and turns

10:21

out, you know, he didn't go

10:24

too far. So let's talk about

10:26

what he had on him at

10:28

the time of his arrest. Yes.

10:30

Well, he had a backpack. He

10:32

was typing on a laptop. He

10:35

had about $8,000 cash on him,

10:37

which that's interesting. We should talk

10:39

about that in a moment as

10:41

well. And a manifesto. Oh, sorry.

10:44

And how about a gun? How

10:46

about a homemade 3D printed gun

10:48

and silencer with bullets in the

10:50

chambers? I mean, yes, and it

10:52

appears to be the very same

10:55

gun that killed Brian Thompson. And

10:57

yeah, it's what they're calling a

10:59

ghost gun. So the company, what

11:01

a name, yeah, can be printed

11:04

from a 3D printer and assembled

11:06

all without having to register it,

11:08

which is just another new terrifying

11:10

fact about how we have access

11:12

to guns in America. So this

11:15

is just a new thing that

11:17

I was unaware that you could

11:19

actually make your own weapons at

11:21

home and so effectively use them.

11:24

I gotta say I'm a little

11:26

upset with the news because on

11:28

a number of cable networks all

11:30

say they had experts who I

11:32

got it. Everyone wants a moment,

11:35

but they had experts who basically

11:37

described to all of America how

11:39

to make your own ghost gun,

11:41

and I thought that was such

11:44

a disservice to the world. So

11:46

I do take issue with people

11:48

getting on these news networks and,

11:50

you know, sort of explaining how

11:52

to do it. Terrible. That does

11:55

seem a bit troubling. Like we

11:57

don't really need to give a

11:59

step-by-step how-to- anyone out there is

12:01

listening, please think twice before booking

12:04

those experts and giving the how

12:06

to to would be criminals out

12:08

there, although I'm sure they do

12:10

know how to do it themselves,

12:12

we just don't need to plant

12:15

the seed for future ones who

12:17

hadn't thought about it. So something

12:19

else that Luigi had on him

12:21

when he was arrested was a

12:24

number of fake IDs, including the

12:26

fake New Jersey ID that the

12:28

suspect used to check into the

12:30

hostile. So that is another really

12:32

big piece of evidence that as

12:35

if we needed more shows that

12:37

Luigi Mangioni and the shooter of

12:39

the United Health Care CEO are

12:41

one in the same. I

12:44

know and don't you think that's

12:46

just a rookie mistake I mean

12:48

for as much as I mean

12:51

I know I you we all

12:53

thought this wow when we first

12:55

saw that video we were like

12:57

wow what a professional wow the

13:00

monopoly money in the backpack oh

13:02

I don't even know if we

13:04

you know you have not talked

13:06

about that in some ways he

13:08

was very professional very thoughtful and

13:11

in others it seems completely clueless

13:13

and that was his undoing but

13:15

one of the ways that added

13:17

major intrigue to this and was

13:20

just a complete middle finger to

13:22

investigators is once they found the

13:24

backpack the distinctive gray peak design

13:26

backpack in Central Park. Inside

13:29

was Monopoly money and a

13:31

Tommy Hill figure jacket, which

13:33

was not described as being

13:35

the jacket that the shooter

13:37

wore. So it appears to

13:39

be just total nonsense that

13:41

he put in this backpack

13:43

and ditched in Central Park.

13:45

Yeah, I mean, I have

13:48

to admit I was laughing

13:50

and almost that moment

13:52

in the movie. I just felt like

13:54

it was such a Thomas Crown affair

13:56

moment where I'm like, oh good, you

13:59

know, it's sort of one of those

14:01

moments where you're like, that's funny. And

14:03

you don't you don't want to laugh

14:06

in a situation like this, but you're

14:08

like, okay, Tuesday, you know, you got

14:10

to give it to him. Absolutely. The

14:12

monopoly money is an amusing choice and

14:15

You just you can picture those

14:17

officers unzipping that backpack thinking are

14:19

we going to have the gun?

14:21

Are we going to have you

14:24

know other forensic evidence and it's

14:26

brightly colored monopoly money that just

14:28

had to be a real headscratcher.

14:30

I know. And and so then

14:32

you think back to the footage

14:34

of him leaving the park without

14:36

the backpack. Clearly now we know

14:38

he had. the gun, the homemade

14:40

gun somewhere on him. I mean,

14:42

where? Who knows? It wasn't, you

14:44

know, super close up, but there

14:46

were certainly no outlines of that

14:49

in that video. We saw him

14:51

riding a bike. You know, he

14:53

retained all kinds of things, right?

14:55

Like he had been on the

14:57

run. So. Yeah, the monopoly

14:59

money, the backpack. I mean, I thought

15:01

for sure that was going to be

15:03

a red herring. I guess it really

15:05

was the backpack. I don't know if

15:07

he had multiples of these things. When

15:09

he was arrested, they said he had

15:11

a backpack. I don't know if it

15:13

was the same one or somehow he

15:15

had different one that he had changed.

15:18

But yeah, there were so many, he's

15:20

such a dichotomy because on one hand,

15:22

this was so produced right like it

15:24

was so thought out it was so

15:26

planned it was well executed he certainly

15:28

was getting away with it until he

15:30

didn't you know until someone identified him

15:32

but i if that employee hadn't done

15:34

that i don't know how much longer

15:36

i mean i think he could have

15:38

gone on a lot longer without being

15:40

identified clearly no one had gotten him

15:42

since then but Yeah,

15:44

I mean, his, well, let's

15:47

talk about who Luigi Mangioni

15:49

is. What do you know

15:51

about this young man? So

15:53

we know that he's 26.

15:55

And what I personally find

15:57

interesting is I grew up

15:59

not too far from where

16:02

he's from. So I had

16:04

heard of the family. I

16:06

had heard of the family.

16:08

They are pretty prominent in

16:10

the area. They own a

16:12

bunch of real estate, including

16:14

country clubs, they're sort of

16:17

high end like that. They

16:19

own a number of I

16:21

believe it's like elderly assisted

16:23

living type places. I know

16:25

the patriarch of the family

16:27

is the grandfather. you

16:30

know there were 10 kids and

16:32

you know lots of grandkids and

16:34

he's one of those grandkids in

16:36

this in this family and they're

16:38

calling him a news a sion

16:40

of Baltimore's wealthiest one of Baltimore's

16:43

wealthiest families and it's they're not

16:45

wrong I mean part of me

16:47

was like I know they were

16:49

that wealthy and seems they are

16:51

and so here you have a

16:54

kid I'll call him a kid

16:56

I know he's 26 but a

16:58

kid who grew up wanting for

17:00

nothing you know the family It

17:02

definitely instilled a good work ethic.

17:04

I believe all of the children

17:07

work at the family business. They

17:09

do fun community events. I happen

17:11

to know every year his father

17:13

throws a, you know, Italian open

17:15

golf outing and, you know, that's

17:18

one of the country clubs and

17:20

it's very community driven and, you

17:22

know, it just seems like a

17:24

really good solid family. And so

17:26

it's so interesting that But Luigi

17:28

comes from this background once for

17:31

nothing, goes to the best schools,

17:33

goes to, you know, it's valedictorian

17:35

of Gilman Prep School, which is

17:37

a very good school in the

17:39

Baltimore area, goes on to the

17:41

University of Pennsylvania where he earns

17:44

multiple master's degrees. I mean, he's

17:46

a smart kid. He was a

17:48

scholar athlete. I believe he was

17:50

even featured in sports illustrated for

17:52

something. I mean, this guy really

17:55

has it all together and has

17:57

such a bright future. And so

17:59

where this all falls down is

18:01

anyone's guess. Yes. So. does seem

18:03

like he had the world on

18:05

a silver platter and he decided

18:08

that this was the move that

18:10

he wanted to make. Now, I

18:12

know that we've talked about him

18:14

being the val Victorian, going to

18:16

UPenn. Everything was lining

18:19

up for him. And then

18:21

it seems like in the

18:23

past six months, there's something

18:25

going on where he stopped

18:28

communicating with his family, he's

18:30

not responding to friends. People

18:32

are wondering what happened to

18:34

him. He's kind of dropped

18:36

off the radar. I was

18:39

looking into some reports that,

18:41

you know, he had undergone

18:43

spinal fusion surgery. And that

18:45

was interesting to me because

18:47

I also underwent spinal fusion

18:50

surgery recently and it is

18:52

quite the experience. It is

18:54

definitely a very serious surgery.

18:56

It is one of the

18:58

most painful surgeries that you

19:01

can have. as someone who's

19:03

gone through both childbirth and

19:05

spinal surgery, I would rank

19:07

spinal surgery ahead of childbirth

19:09

in terms of pain and

19:12

just an experience I would

19:14

not want to repeat. So

19:16

that seems to be the

19:18

only sort of difficulty that

19:20

we know of in Luigi's

19:23

life. And it's fairly recent.

19:25

I haven't seen exact dates,

19:27

but it seems like it

19:29

might have happened in 2023

19:32

where he had the spinal surgery

19:34

and he's posting photos of the

19:36

hardware. As all spinal fusion surgery

19:39

patients do you are proud of

19:41

the fact that you now are

19:43

bionic and you have titanium in

19:46

you. So he posted that photo

19:48

showing that he had titanium screws

19:50

and plates in his back now.

19:52

And so was that the event?

19:55

Was that what caused him to

19:57

realize how much care costs in

19:59

America. It's about $100,000 surgery, give

20:02

or take, depending on how many

20:04

levels of fusion you have. And

20:06

so that raised a red flag

20:09

for me that maybe that event

20:11

had some worse to do with

20:13

his decision to assassinate the CEO

20:15

of United Health Care than perhaps

20:18

other events in his life. It

20:20

was also interesting to me that,

20:22

you know, whenever I was going

20:25

through leading up to the surgery

20:27

and then post surgery, the amount

20:29

of muscle relaxers painkillers, you know,

20:31

things that they would prescribe for

20:34

you is is almost unlimited. This

20:36

is a very painful surgery. So

20:38

I do wonder if perhaps he's

20:41

under the influence of something that's

20:43

not an excuse in any way,

20:45

but it could be a factor.

20:48

And I wonder if possibly that

20:50

has something to do with this

20:52

major shift in, you know, his

20:54

choices. I also, yeah, I mean,

20:57

when I saw the that he

20:59

had had this back surgery, I

21:01

instantly thought of you and everything

21:04

you went through and you, you

21:06

know, luckily don't have an addictive

21:08

personality or anything to concern yourself

21:11

with, but yeah, the medicines are

21:13

strong. I mean, they can affect

21:15

you psychologically. They had his roommate

21:17

from Hawaii during the time when

21:20

he lived in Hawaii on who

21:22

mentioned that because he was in

21:24

so much pain all the time,

21:27

he had dabbled in psychedelics to

21:29

help ease the pain. So I

21:31

do think he wasn't above an

21:33

illicit drug just to help the

21:36

pain. The cost of the surgery

21:38

and insurance coverage and all that,

21:40

again, the family is so wealthy,

21:43

I doubt that was a driver,

21:45

although we don't know what kind

21:47

of relationship he had with his

21:50

family, if you know, I know

21:52

I believe it's after 25, you're

21:54

off your parents insurance, if you

21:56

don't have a job and he

21:59

was. I was going to say.

22:01

So he was 26 and that's

22:03

when you typically get cut off.

22:06

You can stay on. I looked

22:08

it up in Pennsylvania until 29

22:10

or even 30 if you are

22:12

unmarried and a full-time student. So

22:15

possibly, but he wasn't no longer

22:17

going to school. So he had

22:19

graduated. He had worked for a

22:22

little while in tech. And then

22:24

it appeared that he went to

22:26

Hawaii and was living like in

22:29

some type of communal housing, but

22:31

he was very well-liked and social

22:33

at that time. But perhaps that

22:35

was a period of time where

22:38

he started to become radicalized. I

22:40

know people have made a lot

22:42

about his good reads and his

22:45

choice of reading material. Right. I

22:47

mean, that does say something, right.

22:49

I mean, he's seeking out. A

22:52

Ted Kazinsky manifesto, he has a

22:54

manifesto on him when he's caught.

22:56

You know, there is, it's interesting,

22:58

the line that stands out to

23:00

everyone is it had to be

23:02

done. he writes, it had to

23:04

be done. And prior to that,

23:06

he does apologize. So there's a,

23:08

a reference to like, you know,

23:10

him knowing this is wrong. I

23:12

mean, fundamentally murder is wrong. And

23:14

he knows it, but it had,

23:16

so he has this justification. And

23:18

I think he does feel justified

23:20

because those two have come before

23:22

him have done it and made

23:24

their statement and impact on the

23:26

world. And he felt responsible for

23:28

doing this somehow. Yeah,

23:31

it's really fascinating just to

23:33

think that in his mind,

23:35

this was somehow the best

23:37

choice that he could make

23:39

because he seems to have

23:41

actually thought it through, which

23:43

is even more disturbing. It's

23:45

almost like with his life

23:47

of privilege, like he was

23:49

looking to do something hard

23:51

to have a difficult experience

23:53

and the idea that he

23:55

would choose to commit murder

23:57

when he could have, you

23:59

know, Peace Corps, if you

24:01

want to have a experience

24:03

that's difficult and you've had

24:05

a privileged life, speaking for

24:07

personal experience, it's, you know,

24:09

there's so many different ways

24:11

to add distress into your

24:13

life that can be positive,

24:15

right? If you really are

24:17

trying to break out of

24:19

your sheltered upbringing, but this

24:21

is so far out of

24:23

the realm of normal behavior,

24:26

it's It's just really shocking.

24:28

And I know he said

24:30

in the manifesto to save

24:32

a lot of trouble and

24:34

a lot of time, that's

24:36

a paraphrase, but I acted

24:38

alone. And I

24:40

think that's really interesting because, I

24:42

mean, are we taking his word

24:45

for it that he acted alone?

24:47

This is a guy who gave

24:49

a murder. I'm not really sure

24:52

he's going to be completely truthful

24:54

here. And the idea that we

24:56

still don't know who he called

24:59

after these minutes, I was thinking

25:01

the same thing, who's at least

25:03

I was talking to at 6.40

25:06

in the morning, right after he's

25:08

killed the CEO of United Health

25:10

Care. To me, I don't buy

25:12

that there's not one other person

25:15

who was aware that he was

25:17

planning this and that he bragged

25:19

to afterwards. That seems impossible. I

25:22

mean, there has to be some

25:24

narcissistic personality at play here, just

25:26

the idea that he thinks he's

25:29

going to change the health care

25:31

industry himself. One guy is going

25:33

to go out and do something,

25:36

you know, talk about grandiose thinking,

25:38

he's going to go make his

25:40

mark and change the landscape of

25:43

the country's health care industry with

25:45

one shot, right? That's just completely

25:47

absurd. But in his mind, he

25:50

was doing, you know, this. brave

25:52

bold thing and you know you

25:54

could see my air quotes right

25:57

now it's it's completely cowardly to

25:59

shoot someone in the back there's

26:01

nothing brave about it and he

26:04

has basically ended his own life

26:06

in that he's going to be

26:08

lucky to ever see the outside

26:11

of a prison. I mean they

26:13

have to you know I've saw

26:15

that it's second-degree murder and my

26:17

first thought was how in the

26:20

world is this not first-degree murder

26:22

because in Texas that just means

26:24

that's premeditated murder. is

26:27

it qualifies for first degree murder.

26:29

Also, if you're in the commission

26:31

of another felony, whenever you commit

26:33

the murder, then it's first degree

26:35

murder. It's also in Texas eligible

26:38

for capital murder, which is eligible

26:40

for the death penalty if you

26:42

are committing another felony, which using

26:44

a illegal gun to commit murder

26:47

would would be that double felony

26:49

but I looked it up in

26:51

New York it seems like the

26:53

only one that he qualifies for

26:55

a second-degree murder their their statute

26:58

is just different and I was

27:00

really surprised that shooting someone in

27:02

cold blood on the streets with

27:04

premeditated. Yeah. that that is not

27:07

first degree murder to me that

27:09

makes zero sense and I don't

27:11

understand why there's lots of things

27:13

that are first degree murder in

27:15

New York it's killing a police

27:18

officer it's you know killing more

27:20

than one person at the same

27:22

time but for some reason it's

27:24

not this so maybe that's why

27:27

he chose to do it in

27:29

New York maybe he knew all

27:31

this because New York also does

27:33

not have a death penalty. Oh

27:35

interesting. So worst case he'll get

27:38

life in prison with you know

27:40

parole is or a possibility maybe

27:42

I don't know parole yes or

27:44

no who knows how that goes

27:47

but yeah so because we were

27:49

wondering right like why didn't he

27:51

do this where the guy lives

27:53

or you know anywhere else but

27:55

maybe that's a reason then to

27:58

do something like this in New

28:00

York state and I think like

28:02

we discussed previously the hiding in

28:04

plain sight having many people, I

28:07

mean, it's definitely more of a

28:09

challenge, but it's also you can

28:11

use it to your advantage. And

28:13

he almost got away with it.

28:15

He got away with it for

28:18

six days, six day man hunt.

28:20

That's, that's not nothing. You know,

28:22

he did make his getaway. I

28:24

think it's impressive, actually, that he

28:27

got out on his own. And

28:29

it's only through just the continued.

28:31

joggedness of the public, you know,

28:33

the alertness that he was that

28:35

he was captured. I want to

28:38

just talk for a minute about

28:40

the capture for a moment when

28:42

the $8,000 that he had on

28:44

him. I mean, clearly we know

28:47

he comes from money, but he

28:49

had an additional $2,000 in foreign

28:51

currency that I don't think they're

28:53

saying what countries it was from

28:55

yet. And he said. That

28:58

was planted. So it's just so interesting

29:00

to me, he basically all but admits

29:03

he was in New York. They find

29:05

the gun he had denied it. He

29:07

admits his real name after handing off

29:10

the fake ID that was the same

29:12

one used to check into the hostile.

29:14

So he's giving up information. Why? Why

29:17

do you like what makes him lie

29:19

about something as casual as money? It's

29:21

not illegal to have money on you.

29:25

Yeah, that is really strange that

29:27

he would draw the line there

29:29

and say no, that's not mine.

29:31

Yeah, all the things. The laptop,

29:34

I mean, you have like all

29:36

of the problems that this guy

29:38

has at that moment of the

29:40

arrest, I do not believe having

29:43

under $10,000, which I think is

29:45

the cutoff for things like customs

29:47

and all that. is illegal. I

29:49

mean, I just found that so

29:52

odd. I feel like there's something

29:54

we don't know that we will

29:56

find out that he will divulge

29:59

that will be. and

30:01

I don't know why. Yeah, it is

30:03

extremely. surprising that that

30:05

that would even come up and

30:07

yeah I'm curious to see where

30:09

that goes. So final thoughts. I

30:12

want to shout out to a

30:14

listener Janice who sent us a

30:16

link to something on TikTok talking

30:19

about how people are roasting United

30:21

Health Care for posting a job

30:23

opening for their CEO just 24

30:26

hours after the assassination. Is that

30:28

a real job posting or did

30:30

someone? As far as I know,

30:33

it's real. I didn't, I'll be

30:35

honest, I didn't go down and

30:37

verify, but it is, but as

30:39

far as I know, it's a

30:42

real job posting and the tick

30:44

talker was saying, your job does

30:46

not care about you. Even if

30:49

you make, you know, millions of

30:51

dollars, even if you're the CEO,

30:53

your job does not care about

30:56

you. This is how quickly you'll

30:58

be replaced. Yeah, it's a good

31:00

reminder. I mean, if that's true,

31:03

I mean, who wants that job

31:05

now? Nobody really, right? I mean,

31:07

just that that would be their

31:10

priority. Our see down cold blood

31:12

on the streets of New York.

31:14

Well, we got to find somebody

31:17

else to fill a shoes. Let's

31:19

let's go ahead and post that

31:21

job A. S. A. B. I

31:23

mean, yeah, I am going to

31:26

maybe say that's a fake posting

31:28

because I feel like CEO jobs

31:30

are usually head hunted or promoted

31:33

within. I think it's more a

31:35

statement someone was making, but if

31:37

it's real, oh my goodness, that

31:40

would be crazy. So he was

31:42

indicted, Luigi was indicted, and then

31:44

he was extradited or had another

31:47

hearing today. I believe.

31:49

Yeah, I think it might actually be

31:51

going on now. Yeah. And it

31:53

was funny. I don't know if you,

31:55

sorry, nothing about this is funny. If

31:58

you watch the video of him being

32:00

escorted by the police to the courthouse

32:02

in Pennsylvania, the police officer hops out

32:05

of the car and opens the door

32:07

and he had scoots to the other

32:09

side so the cameras caught nothing, like

32:12

it almost as if he had

32:14

disappeared, which... Oh my gosh. Kind of.

32:16

I mean, the guy is playing with

32:18

them still. He's still playing with the

32:21

cops. And so, you know, the guy

32:23

then has to go around the other

32:25

side and, you know, he comes out

32:28

and I didn't realize this guy's very

32:30

tall, so he's actually quite, you know,

32:32

noticeable and he's lengthy, but he's tall,

32:35

he's much taller than all of

32:37

the police officers that are surrounding him.

32:39

And he makes a comment of, I

32:41

don't know exactly what he said, but

32:44

he was sort of fighting to get

32:46

away and making comments and I was

32:48

wondering if somebody had tapped him on

32:51

the shoulder and said, hey, play a

32:53

little insane. I think we could use

32:55

that in your defense. What do

32:58

you think about that? Interesting. I mean,

33:00

I don't know who could have tapped

33:02

him on the shoulder. Yeah, I don't

33:05

think he has a lawyer yet. He's

33:07

refused public counsel. Yeah

33:09

so I mean just the idea that

33:11

someone would be that close to him

33:14

to be able to say that it

33:16

might just be an idea that popped

33:18

into his own deranged brain to to

33:21

start doing that but yeah the insanity

33:23

defense I think we're going to see

33:25

the best defense money can buy with

33:27

this guy so it will be interesting

33:30

to see if you know there ends

33:32

up being a trial if there's a

33:34

plea deal. there could be any number

33:37

of things that happened between now and

33:39

then trials take sometimes years to get

33:41

on the docket so we might not

33:44

get many more answers soon but at

33:46

some point it's all going to come

33:48

out. Yeah I mean it was certainly

33:50

it was certainly a site if you

33:53

can you know I'm sure the video

33:55

will be circulating online if I'm getting

33:57

out of that police car but I

34:00

caught a I caught a brief of

34:02

it and thought, oof, like he's, he

34:04

is acting a little crazy. And of

34:06

course, you have to be crazy to

34:09

commit cold-blooded murder. But the cool common

34:11

collected guy that we saw in that

34:13

assassination video was not this guy that

34:16

came out of the, I mean, he's

34:18

kind of little all over the place,

34:20

that from what I can see. Yeah,

34:23

I mean, the jig is up. I

34:25

remember that was something that was always

34:27

interesting when I was at 48 hours

34:29

and I'd be covering these murder trials.

34:32

The person who committed the crime, you

34:34

know, what they looked like when they

34:36

were brought in for questioning and what

34:39

they looked like by the time the

34:41

trial started. usually almost unrecognizable. They would

34:43

have aged so much, they would either

34:45

gain a bunch of weight or lose

34:48

a bunch of weight. If they were

34:50

clean shaven, they'd grow beard, you know,

34:52

vice versa. It was like, oh, that

34:55

guy that committed the crime, that's not

34:57

me. You know, it was always this

34:59

extremely stark contrast between how they looked

35:02

when they were committing the crime and

35:04

how they looked. whenever they were on

35:06

trial for it. So I know a

35:08

lot of people are talking about how

35:11

Luigi Mangioni looks. He's he's getting some

35:13

sort of Ted Bundy, um, fandom in

35:15

terms of the sick attraction to a

35:18

murder. Yeah, yeah, they're calling him a

35:20

hot hero on social media, which is

35:22

just terrible. It really is. So terrible.

35:24

You know what I was Well

35:28

I was thinking he's almost like

35:30

the Robert Durst of this generation.

35:32

I mean a kid who had

35:34

all that is a really good

35:36

analogy. Right went off the deep

35:38

end now obviously you know Robert

35:40

Durst clearly had well he clearly

35:42

had mental issues too and admitted

35:44

to killing people and on a

35:46

hot mic as we'll recall and

35:48

during the jinks recording and you

35:50

know this was I feel like

35:52

his murders were you know more

35:54

personally well I guess all murder

35:56

well this murder is too personal

35:58

motivated, but less of a I

36:00

need to save the world, less

36:02

of a God complex almost, and

36:04

more of a, I need to

36:06

just kill this person to get

36:08

them out of my way to

36:10

sort of self-preservation. And I think

36:12

the difference here with Luigi Mangioni

36:14

is more of a God complex

36:16

almost, of I need to save

36:18

the world and rid it of

36:20

these parasites as he called them.

36:22

But the family, the things he

36:24

would have been entitled to, the

36:26

legacy, the scionism, all that's there.

36:28

I mean, that's why I think

36:31

we're all going to stay really

36:33

fascinated with this case. Yes,

36:35

I agree and just, you know,

36:37

I think maybe we can close

36:40

on the Mangioni family statement, you

36:42

know, they have come out, obviously

36:44

they don't have a ton that

36:47

they want to say, but they

36:49

are sharing that they're shocked and

36:52

devastated by Luigi's arrest. And they

36:54

offer, we offer our prayers to

36:56

the family of Brian Thompson and

36:59

all involved. And so that is

37:01

where we'll leave it today. And

37:04

thank you so much for tuning

37:06

in to our third episode of

37:08

Justice Pending. We didn't anticipate releasing

37:11

the podcast this early, but because

37:13

of breaking news, because this case

37:15

is so unusual, we just had

37:18

to jump out there and tell

37:20

you about it. we will release

37:23

our actual intended first episode that

37:25

we recorded to sort of introduce

37:27

ourselves and talk about how we

37:30

became such good friends and so

37:32

obsessed with true crime because there's

37:35

a pretty great backstory there. Yeah,

37:37

I know it is. Leave it

37:39

to us to do things in

37:42

a different way, a different path.

37:44

Well, we accidentally started a breaking

37:47

news podcast that was not the

37:49

plan, but that's what this is

37:51

now. Well, there are plenty of

37:54

other cases that are by now

37:56

very, very frigidly cold that still

37:58

have justice pending for them. we

38:01

will definitely circle back and bring

38:03

you this. We will. And we'll

38:06

keep our eye on this one

38:08

and we'll look out for any

38:10

new interesting cases. And yeah, stay

38:13

tuned. There's lots more coming. If

38:15

you are looking for even more

38:18

true crime content, check out my

38:20

upcoming book, Killer Story, The Truth

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Behind True Crime Television. A limited

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38:30

Pending is produced in

38:32

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38:35

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