0:00

What if one of the

0:02

unlocks for living the good

0:04

life lies in the simple

0:06

act of giving? Welcome back,

0:08

or welcome to The Finding

0:10

Mastery podcast, where we dive

0:12

into the minds of the

0:14

world's greatest thinkers and doers.

0:16

I'm your host, Dr. Michael

0:18

Jervais, by trade and training

0:20

a high-performance psychologist. And today's

0:22

guest is a true icon

0:24

of entrepreneurship, resilience, and generosity.

0:26

Jean Paul DeGioia. a co-founder

0:28

of not one, but two

0:30

billion dollar brands, Petron Tequila

0:32

and Paul Mitchell Hair Care

0:35

products. Now, what you might

0:37

not know is that before

0:39

building billion dollar companies, JP

0:41

was homeless, selling products door

0:43

to door just to get

0:46

by. His journey, it's a

0:48

master class in grit and

0:50

optimism and the power of

0:53

perseverance. In this conversation, JP

0:55

shares how his toughest moments

0:57

shaped his mindset and his

0:59

mindset. why giving back no

1:02

matter how little you have

1:04

can transform your life and

1:06

why he believes wealth isn't

1:09

about money. It's about gratitude,

1:11

it's about impact. So get

1:13

ready. JP has a deep

1:15

spark. It's got a heart

1:18

of gold. And let's

1:20

jump right into this

1:22

week's conversation with the

1:24

legend, John Paul DeGioia.

1:26

thrilled and honored to sit

1:29

down with you. Your testament

1:31

to what from the outside

1:33

looks like a great life

1:35

is something that I've wanted to

1:37

talk with you for a long

1:39

time. So let me not make

1:42

any assumptions though. When you think

1:44

of living a great life. Have

1:46

you lived a great life? I have lived

1:48

an unbelievable great life. I've had

1:50

as most people know a lot of adversity

1:53

in my life Okay, but I went to

1:55

learn and I'm learning more as I get

1:57

older and older and older that that's a

1:59

good thing If I lived a life

2:01

here in this body on this planet,

2:03

okay, with no adversity, I wouldn't be

2:06

growing at all. So I look at

2:08

what I went through, and I look

2:10

at the tough times that I learned

2:12

from. It was like the greatest education.

2:15

JP, what's the extent of your education

2:17

at high school? But the bigger one

2:19

was after high school just learning things

2:21

and reading books about what life is

2:24

really, really all about. And then of

2:26

course, along the way, I happen to

2:28

be really blessed and grace with a

2:30

lot of good stuff coming my way.

2:33

but I lived a blessed life on

2:35

both sides, even through the adversity and

2:37

obviously what I have right now. The

2:39

world works and if you're a kind

2:42

person, it works quicker for you. Okay,

2:44

there's a lot at this. So if

2:46

you don't mind, let's talk about some

2:49

of the adversities. Sure. And I would

2:51

love for you to mark the ones

2:53

that have been most meaningful to you.

2:55

You betcha. Well, let me start out

2:58

at a very young age. We had

3:00

absolutely nothing. Where did that be dad?

3:02

And before I was two years old,

3:04

he was gone. So was my mother,

3:07

now this is the late 40s. Okay,

3:09

we're into the 1940s now. There was

3:11

my mother and my brother and I.

3:13

That was it. No other sorts of

3:16

income. We lived in a little dinky

3:18

house, real little house in Echo Park.

3:20

We didn't have anything, not even a

3:23

TV set. We thought we were really

3:25

really a special lady. She would give

3:27

my brother and I, for example, once

3:29

we'd come home, she'd have this little

3:32

piece, oh, maybe it was like two,

3:34

three ounces, max of fillet mignon. And

3:36

she'd say, boys, we're all gonna have

3:38

a bite of fillet mignon. It's a

3:41

certain type of steak that all the

3:43

rich people eat, right? We eat just

3:45

like them. Oh, mom, that's great. And

3:47

on those days, caviar, and let us

3:50

taste it and say boys that's what

3:52

the rich so we never knew we

3:54

were without so when I got into

3:56

school mainly where I grew up there

3:59

in grammar school everyone was kind of

4:01

same the same and then in high

4:03

school we realized hey things were different.

4:06

So it was really adversity, but we

4:08

never knew it. So it never affected

4:10

us. Going along the way a little

4:12

bit further, when you run across other

4:15

points of adversity, that really came at

4:17

you was, for example, when I was

4:19

in the United States Navy, I learned

4:21

quite a bit. When I got out

4:24

of the United States Navy, I was

4:26

looking for a job to set the

4:28

world on fire. And I ended up

4:30

after several trying several jobs to work

4:33

for P.F. Collier Encyclopedia. call your encyclopedia.

4:35

When we were interviewed, we were told

4:37

very few of you are going to

4:40

make it. Those that are going to

4:42

make it are those that realize you

4:44

don't give up. If you knock on.

4:46

50 doors and they're all politely or

4:49

unpolitely closed in your face, okay? You

4:51

have to be just as enthusiastic on

4:53

door number 51 as you were the

4:55

first 50 and that's a tough thing

4:58

to do. Because every call you made

5:00

was a cold call. There were no

5:02

leads. You're in the afternoon pounding on

5:04

doors. Finally were the young couples living

5:07

with families going back at night and

5:09

trying to get in there to Selman

5:11

Sacklepius. Well, the university was, oh my

5:14

God, this is what I'm up against,

5:16

but I believe what they said. Out

5:18

of everyone that was interviewed with me

5:20

was maybe a dozen person, I was

5:23

the only one left. When I went

5:25

in the field, it was very difficult,

5:27

but I believed what they said. Now,

5:29

it wasn't, it wasn't 50 doors for

5:32

me. It was more like over 100

5:34

doors. that I finally got through a

5:36

door and was able to give a

5:38

presentation. But there was a lot of

5:41

adversity there because you kept on getting

5:43

rejection. However, it worked. And that always

5:45

stayed with me. So later on, when

5:47

I started Paul Mitchell with no money,

5:50

we'll get in that a little bit

5:52

later, I had that same philosophy that

5:54

you can overcome these things. You just

5:57

got to figure out ways around it

5:59

and go, go, go. I mean, in

6:01

my early 20s, I have a two

6:03

and a half year old son and

6:06

a wife. and a mother that didn't

6:08

want to be a mother or a

6:10

wife anymore. came home one day and

6:12

there's a two and a half year

6:15

old kid in our apartment with my

6:17

clothes scattered around him and a note.

6:19

Sorry, he'll be much better off, he'll

6:21

be much better off with you than

6:24

he is with me. I can't handle

6:26

this anymore. Good luck. And she had

6:28

cleaned out what little money we had

6:31

out of our bank account. She planned

6:33

all this weeks before, took the rent

6:35

money, didn't pay the rent, didn't pay

6:37

the rent, Two days after she did,

6:40

we had nothing. She even took the

6:42

one car. After that, it was no

6:44

money, no house, they're kicking us out,

6:46

the power's now being turned off, and

6:49

I didn't have a job. The job

6:51

I had wasn't paying me for another

6:53

week. What the hell are you gonna

6:55

do? Whoa, let's pause right here. That

6:58

was adversity. at when you were young,

7:00

when your dad left, has now reared

7:02

its head again, except the dad didn't

7:04

leave, the mom did, right? And so

7:07

there's like a double entendre that's taking

7:09

place with your two young kids at

7:11

that age. But so let's work in

7:14

reverse order across these three, because you

7:16

just shared three adversities, but you dropped

7:18

deep insights on how you navigated both.

7:20

And I want to make sure we

7:23

highlight those. Sure. In reverse order. I'm

7:25

more interested in why, what you saw

7:28

in a woman when you were dating,

7:30

that you missed, that she could be

7:32

the one, the type of one, that

7:35

leaves two children and a caring man,

7:37

I'm assuming you were a caring man,

7:39

you know, with nothing. Like, what did

7:41

you miss? Beautiful, first of all, question

7:44

I asked. No one's ever asked me

7:46

that question, but it's a good one.

7:48

And the honest truth was, I was

7:51

turning 20 years old and she was

7:53

drop dead gorgeous. She was beautiful. Okay,

7:55

so that's what you saw. Nothing else

7:57

mattered. That's all I saw. She was

8:00

beautiful. Didn't think of anything else. She

8:02

was a beautiful lady. Okay. And so

8:04

the character of the content was not

8:07

as you would hope. Nope. And was

8:09

she a drug user? Was she, did

8:11

she have, looking back, did she have

8:13

some sort of psychological disorder? Or was

8:16

it just like. an impulsive way of

8:18

living, like how do you make sense

8:20

of what she did? Well, let us

8:23

say that I think it was a

8:25

bit of disorder her bringing up, which

8:27

I didn't know about for some time,

8:29

but if she would have told me

8:32

how she was brought up, I still

8:34

would have married her, she's the most

8:36

beautiful girl, not realizing maybe people don't

8:39

change that quick and they weren't ready

8:41

for responsibility. And then the opposite side

8:43

of the coin about her, what was

8:45

it about you that she wanted to

8:48

leave? What she said was she couldn't

8:50

handle being around being a mom. And

8:52

when I finally chatted with her years

8:55

later, she showed it many, many years

8:57

later. Anyways, when we finally did, she

8:59

just said, I just couldn't handle it.

9:01

It was, you know, going into the,

9:04

it was the end of the 1960s,

9:06

and it was, you know, it was,

9:08

you know, it was the end of

9:11

the 1960s, it was, you know, it

9:13

was, you know, it was the end

9:15

of the end of the, money. Now

9:17

she never complained about it. However, I

9:20

knew inside it really affected her. Maybe

9:22

she thought I'd be making more money.

9:24

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, raising

9:27

children is really hard. You know, and

9:29

it's the most rewarding, wonderful thing. It

9:31

can be the most rewarding, wonderful thing,

9:33

but it's really a rich challenge where

9:36

as much as I care about psychology

9:38

and emotions and living a great life,

9:40

it's hard for me too. And I've

9:42

spent my whole life understanding. how to

9:45

help other people become their very best.

9:47

And I don't, there's no road map

9:49

that's clear here. Yeah, there's no road

9:52

map. I know, I know you do

9:54

that by the way, and that's why

9:56

I'm on your podcast, because we research.

9:58

I thought, sure, he's helping other people

10:01

out. I'll come on down, I'll fly

10:03

on down and do it. Oh, wonderful.

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your long-term health today. This is amazing

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and you, so there's something about helping

11:22

other people that resonates deeply with you.

11:24

And is that something, where did that

11:26

come from? I think my mom, because

11:28

even though we grew up with adversity,

11:31

we never knew it, right? My mom

11:33

was always kind to everybody. and I

11:35

think the thing that really switched it

11:37

also got me into philanthropy when finally

11:39

I could afford my time and later

11:42

on money was when I was about

11:44

six years old we lived in Echo

11:46

Park my mom would take us to

11:48

downtown LA on trolley cars we used

11:50

to have trolley cars in those days

11:53

and she took us down to right

11:55

around it would be spring and seventh

11:57

street Spring and Maine, that area there.

11:59

There was bullocks. There was May Company.

12:01

There were all these really great department

12:03

stores. Ellie was different in those days.

12:06

And they had all these beautiful window

12:08

displays, trains going around in circles. And

12:10

my mother gave my brother, who was

12:12

about a year and a half older

12:14

than me, a dime. And said, boys,

12:17

I want you to hang on this

12:19

dime, half with your little fingers. put

12:21

it in the bucket there, that red

12:23

bucket with the guy ring in the

12:25

bell. And we did. We came back

12:28

to mom and said, mom, why do

12:30

we give him a dime? That's two

12:32

Coca-Cola's. That's what it was in the

12:34

40s, right? Three candy bars. Why do

12:36

we give a dime? And mom said,

12:38

boys. That's the Salvation Army. We have

12:41

food and we have a house to

12:43

live in. There are people who have

12:45

no food, no house to live in.

12:47

They take care of them. This is

12:49

all we could afford this year. But

12:52

remember, boys, always give a little something.

12:54

There is always somebody a little worse

12:56

off than you are. That's what Mama

12:58

said. I was 11, 12 years old

13:00

and I had a morning paper out,

13:03

sort of my brother, with a Los

13:05

Angeles examiner, which was the newspaper of

13:07

the newspaper of the time. where it

13:09

was a weekend, it was a Friday.

13:11

And my mother said, boys, come here

13:13

to the kitchen table, we had a

13:16

little kitchen table, she says, take out

13:18

any money, have in your pocket, or

13:20

in your piggy banks, take it all

13:22

out. Okay, we took all my money,

13:24

all her money, everything we had together.

13:27

We counted 27 cents. And let's forget

13:29

the story, she said, boys, we have

13:31

27 cents, but we have food in

13:33

the refrigerator, we're growing some vegetables in

13:35

the backyard. Our bills are being paid

13:38

in full. Oh, we're rich. And we

13:40

said to bring while we were bring

13:42

me into that moment. Yeah. What was

13:44

it like when you put? 27 cents

13:46

on the table, and mom made that

13:49

very clear declaration. This is all the

13:51

money we have. You didn't get scared?

13:53

No, no, not at all. My was

13:55

maybe a nickel. My brother's probably a

13:57

dime. She came up with the rest.

13:59

We're scared at all because what my

14:02

mom said hit home. We're the rich.

14:04

We're like rich. So we were, you

14:06

were rich in other ways. It goes

14:08

on what someone's definition of rich and

14:10

wealth is. If you were to ask

14:13

me, what's the definition, and put in

14:15

as priority, I'd say number one priority

14:17

would be happy in life, be happy.

14:19

Number two would be healthy, because you

14:21

got to be happy to be really

14:24

healthy. And number three comes everything else.

14:26

So let's do the keys to happiness

14:28

right now. And this is your take

14:30

on what makes... what sits underneath your

14:32

happiness. Because the viewer and the listener

14:34

wouldn't get what I'm getting right now

14:37

from you. They'll hear your tone and

14:39

see your inflection, but on camera, but

14:41

you have a vibrance. You have a

14:43

zest for life that would be a

14:45

10 out of 10 if there's such

14:48

a scale. And I do want to

14:50

talk about happiness, but there's something else

14:52

that you have that is felt by

14:54

me being six feet away from you.

14:56

I'm calling it zest right now. There's

14:59

a spark about you. I do want

15:01

to hit on both of those. I

15:03

want to hit about happiness and I

15:05

do eventually want to come back to

15:07

the zest for life that you have.

15:09

So what's underneath happiness? How do you

15:12

generate happiness on a consistent basis? I'm

15:14

very fortunate the way I grew up

15:16

with the kind of mom I had.

15:18

I was happy most all the time.

15:20

When I got my first job at

15:23

10 years old, the first paid job

15:25

other than selling Christmas cards, right, I

15:27

was happy just to have a job.

15:29

Like, wow, I have a job. Gave

15:31

the $30 a month to my mother,

15:34

but I have a job. Later on

15:36

in life, when more... So you're pointing

15:38

to gratitude as one of the core

15:40

foundations for happiness. Gratitude beyond any question

15:42

of doubt. Yeah. But as I got

15:44

older, there was more adversity there, there

15:47

was more challenges there, and then I

15:49

kind of lost that total freedom of

15:51

happiness you had when you were a

15:53

kid. But then along the way, I

15:55

learned how to overcome it. And the

15:58

first thing is, human beings carry around

16:00

on their shoulders, regret, jealousy, anger, I

16:02

don't like you, I hate you, is

16:04

carried on their shoulders. And you cannot

16:06

change yesterday's newspapers. You think about something

16:09

you don't like, a conversation comes up,

16:11

you go towards, oh I know, something

16:13

like there, there are a total ass.

16:15

You've got to get that off your

16:17

shoulders, and everybody has it. Or things

16:20

come up along the way. Now how

16:22

do you get off your shoulders? How

16:24

do you get it? Okay, it's quite

16:26

easy. When you know it shouldn't be

16:28

there, and you use common sense. You

16:30

can't change it. As soon as you

16:33

start carrying that around, which everybody does,

16:35

and you add on to it, all

16:37

of a sudden, you're not in the

16:39

future, you're not in present times, part

16:41

of you is behind you there, and

16:44

the spirit picks up all this stuff,

16:46

right? So the easy way to get

16:48

it off your shoulders is when it

16:50

pops up, each time it pops up,

16:52

just say. A lot of those challenges

16:55

were my past life. That's not me

16:57

anymore. And then immediately have anything. I

16:59

don't care what's happening in your life

17:01

right now. One positive thing. It could

17:03

be, I just had breakfast. I got

17:05

a full tank of gas. Just to

17:08

change your mind. It will come back

17:10

again. When it comes back, I can

17:12

do the same thing. That's my past

17:14

life. That's not me anymore. Go away,

17:16

go away. One at a time, it'll

17:19

happen. You'll find in your life something

17:21

coming up where I really hate that

17:23

person, and you'll catch yourself saying, I

17:25

don't like that person. Here's what they

17:27

did bad. And you'll say, wait, that's

17:30

the past. They can be a great

17:32

person now. I don't know. I forgive

17:34

them. Forgive everybody for any wrong you

17:36

did. Or they did. Either way, you

17:38

did it, they did forgive yourself, forgive

17:40

them, because you can't do anything about

17:43

it. And once, and you're suffering more

17:45

than they are, or more than you

17:47

were when you regretted it a long

17:49

time ago. What happened, happened? and realize

17:51

that everything, everything that happens to you,

17:54

everything that happens to somebody else, okay,

17:56

everything is a lesson learned. If you

17:58

were on this planet with nothing happening,

18:00

you're not going to learn any lessons,

18:02

you're going to come back a lot

18:05

of times, okay? Come on, let's learn

18:07

another lesson there. But once you do

18:09

that, you're relieved, you feel like, oh.

18:11

I feel great. You know, it's off

18:13

your shoulders. That is one great thing.

18:15

The next thing to do is whenever

18:18

you're in a conversation and people are

18:20

talking about gossip or negative things, say,

18:22

excuse me, but I'm on more of

18:24

a positive trend right now. But thank

18:26

you. I appreciate what you're saying. I

18:29

always acknowledge them. I appreciate what you're

18:31

saying, but I can't enter this conversation

18:33

and walk away. Do not hang around

18:35

negative arguments or negative feelings or negative

18:37

feelings. It's not you. a coach or

18:40

teammate or like somebody on a staff

18:42

that you're part of is like super

18:44

toxic you know like they complain a

18:46

lot. I say I don't know because

18:48

I don't hang out with that I

18:51

don't I leave like that's not I'm

18:53

not good enough to be able to

18:55

try to convince or change I don't

18:57

even know how to change anybody from

18:59

a from that way so I just

19:01

I basically just say hey listen this

19:04

is not for me And I'll exit

19:06

the conversation. Same type of thing. It's

19:08

interesting. We have words. My words are,

19:10

if I want to be polite, get

19:12

away was, you know what, Michael? I

19:15

could appreciate that, and I wish you

19:17

good luck with it. I've got a

19:19

split now. Yeah, that's cool. That's really

19:21

cool. Yeah. Good luck with it, buddy.

19:23

But you're doing a couple things here.

19:26

You're framing adversity, as like a necessary

19:28

and interesting part of life. I want

19:30

the smooth life. But I didn't know

19:32

it at the time. Okay. I didn't

19:34

know it at the time that it

19:36

was a lesson learned that later, years

19:39

later, it was like, wow, that was

19:41

so cool. The second piece that I

19:43

just want to highlight though is that

19:45

if you've gone through pain or somebody's

19:47

caused you, you know, You're just hurting

19:50

from an experience you had or from

19:52

someone. It doesn't sound like you are

19:54

suggesting, like make a declaration and forgive

19:56

them. You're saying when it comes up,

19:58

work with it piece by piece. You

20:01

know, just eloquently say when it comes

20:03

up, say that's not serving me right

20:05

now. That's old news. And then come

20:07

back to now, but don't just come

20:09

back to now neutral. Come back to

20:11

now and find something that is net

20:14

positive. Oh yeah. And if it still

20:16

happens at night, for example, when you

20:18

go to bed, it's going through your

20:20

head. All this misery is going through

20:22

your head. Remembering your problems of the

20:25

day, whatever. The way to get rid

20:27

of that is, before you go to

20:29

bed... Get a tablet. Write down everything

20:31

that goes to your mind because you

20:33

can't sleep because you're worried about it,

20:36

I can't pay this bill, I can't

20:38

do this, I can't do that. I

20:40

was there, I know, believe me, okay?

20:42

Do you do this? Write it down

20:44

on a piece of paper. Do you

20:46

do this on a regular basis? Not

20:49

anymore, but I did, especially when I

20:51

started companies on a regular basis. Not

20:53

anymore, but I did, especially when I

20:55

started companies with no piece of paper.

20:57

Because it's on the piece of paper.

21:00

Because it's on the piece of paper.

21:02

Maybe it was late at night. That's

21:04

not a problem. I would cross them

21:06

off and minimize what you're really thinking

21:08

about before you go to bed. I

21:11

don't know if you know this, but

21:13

according to research and psychology, that would

21:15

be considered a best practice in evidence-based

21:17

practice for working with anxiety. That would

21:19

be considered a best practice in evidence-based

21:21

practice for working with anxiety. Yeah. And

21:24

the evidence-based practice for working with anxiety.

21:26

Okay. Yeah. clear your mind, okay? And

21:28

this leads into what I wanted to

21:30

start to tell you about the down

21:32

and out, a child, no money, no

21:35

money for a while, okay, no car,

21:37

no nothing. And there we are. How

21:39

did I get out of that? This,

21:41

I really watch audience to know. How

21:43

old were you at this time? I

21:46

was 22 and a half years old.

21:48

And you was 23. And you're coming

21:50

from a place, little. But you said,

21:52

I wrote it down, I want to

21:54

set the world on fire. So that

21:57

is like a really important piece of

21:59

this, is that you're coming from a

22:01

place that I want to do something

22:03

with this time I have here. So,

22:05

okay. Walk us into. But at that

22:07

time, that wasn't the thought. You didn't

22:10

have that. Oh no, at that time,

22:12

it was this. No money, no food,

22:14

no transportation. And my mind went totally

22:16

blank because there's nothing there, right? Okay,

22:18

first thing is I need to get

22:21

money and I need to get a

22:23

car. So my thought was who's got

22:25

a car they're not using. And I

22:27

thought about my actual ex-wives. who deserted

22:29

me right her mother. She had this

22:32

old Cadillac with a blown water pump.

22:34

She never used. It was a 1950

22:36

Cadillac. I called her on the phone,

22:38

made it to a phone, put my

22:40

diamond, called her on the phone, and

22:42

said, if I could get you, can

22:45

I borrow this? You could have it.

22:47

She said, I never use it. Had

22:49

a blown water pump. So that was

22:51

transportation. Now I needed money. And as

22:53

I was driving to get the car,

22:56

there was all these Coke bottles and

22:58

seven up bottles. Lots! I picked up,

23:00

it was two cents for a little

23:02

one and five cents for a big

23:04

bottle. I just gathered them up, got

23:07

my son, stuck them in the car,

23:09

and just went around gathering them. In

23:11

my day, now this is the 1960s,

23:13

every drugstore, every liquor store, okay? Every

23:15

supermarket had to cash them in. There

23:17

was the money. So we were living

23:20

in the car, very little money, but

23:22

we made it. And then about, oh,

23:24

maybe two, three weeks later after living

23:26

in the car, ran across a friend

23:28

of mine from the Hell's Angels, good

23:31

buddy of mine, and Lee Meyer. He

23:33

said, JP, I have an extra room,

23:35

and I could get some of our

23:37

mommas to watch your kid while you're

23:39

working. Come on moving with me. And

23:42

that was a big help. So I'm

23:44

pointing to the scrappiness, the resourcefulness that

23:46

was your part of your part of

23:48

your origin story. and then relationships. When

23:50

you're down and out, you can't think

23:52

about how down and out you are

23:55

because you're already down and out. So

23:57

why are you thinking about how bad?

23:59

So you would just be sliding further.

24:01

Okay, priority money, priority a car, you

24:03

gotta do that. Yeah, right. Okay. And

24:06

then so now you had an average

24:08

for some money, then you found a

24:10

place to live. Right. And then how

24:12

do you get to JP or Paul

24:14

Mitchell? That was your first company or

24:17

Petron? No, my first one was Paul

24:19

Mitchell in 1980. Okay, right. This leads

24:21

to fate. So I'd love to tell

24:23

you the story very quickly. I worked

24:25

for Redkin Laboratories, the professional beauty industry.

24:28

I'm not a hairdresser, okay? I became

24:30

their national manager of two divisions of

24:32

the company by the time I was

24:34

with them only a year and a

24:36

year and a year and a half,

24:38

which was unheard of in that business,

24:41

okay? I'm with them five years. And

24:43

then they got into animal testing. Maybe

24:45

a room that's 12 by 12 with

24:47

all these little marms set monkeys in

24:49

there. So Marmon says, oh, no, no,

24:52

they never leave. They never leave? There's

24:54

a door with a one-foot window that

24:56

looks into the hall. How do they

24:58

see the outside? Well, they don't. Why

25:00

are we testing on them? Well, to

25:03

see how much shampoo they'll take before

25:05

their eyes go out. Well, to see

25:07

how much shampoo they'll take before their

25:09

eyes go out. I said, wait a

25:11

minute. We don't see how much shampoo

25:13

they'll take before they'll take before they'll

25:16

make us. Listen. your executive manager now

25:18

be part of the corporation. It makes

25:20

us look. I'm getting sick to my

25:22

son. Yeah, but it comes out good.

25:24

Yeah, we're the scientific approach, right? We

25:27

are the scientific approach. That's what I

25:29

got. I said, so I went back

25:31

two weeks later. I did the same

25:33

thing. They said, JP, you're everything's ahead,

25:35

you're wonderful. But you either stay on

25:38

the bandwagon because you're telling other people

25:40

about this in the company, right? the

25:42

job for you, okay? So of course

25:44

I left a company called Syntex, big

25:46

in the pharmaceutical industry, bought a company

25:48

called Firmadil. They were doing about $8

25:51

million a year. They heard I was

25:53

available, grabbed me, and they hired me

25:55

to train their management in sales to

25:57

the beauty industry, because that's the beauty

25:59

estate was in. The one year I

26:02

was with them, they went from $8

26:04

million to $12 million. Big jump, 50%

26:06

jump right away. I got fired after

26:08

one year. Why did they fire me?

26:10

The reason they fired me was they

26:13

wanted me to hang out with them

26:15

on weekends and go to canasta, play

26:17

canasta with them, and they happen to

26:19

be Jewish, no disrespect, okay, and go

26:21

to temple. Well, I'm not Jewish, trying

26:23

to go to temple. So over the

26:26

weekends, I was at Griffith Park at

26:28

Lovins, with, you know, groving bands, man.

26:30

My little kid with me there, you

26:32

know, the merry-go-round, that was my life.

26:34

Anyways, anyways, after one, after one year,

26:37

a day, a day, a day, a

26:39

day, a day, a day, a day,

26:41

a day, a day, a day, a

26:43

day, a year, a day, a day,

26:45

a day, a day, a day, a

26:48

day, a day, I said, but my

26:50

job, look, I mean, everybody says, no,

26:52

we're doing that, not you, you just

26:54

happen to be here. I think you

26:56

should go. I mean, he was really

26:59

mean. I said, okay, I'm gone. I

27:01

immediately, so I'm fired there, right? I

27:03

immediately went to work for the Institute

27:05

of Trichology, try and tripled their sales.

27:07

They weren't big cells, little ones, but

27:09

I tripled their cells in one year.

27:12

They came up and said, JP, we

27:14

have we have to let you, I

27:16

just grew your business tremendously. You were

27:18

only paying me $3,000 a month. This

27:20

is the 1970s, right? Three thousand, three

27:23

thousand a month, because I agreed on

27:25

it, but 6% of any new sales

27:27

that were created. They said, well, that's

27:29

what got you. You made more money

27:31

than the owners of the company. I

27:34

see, yeah, but your company is bigger.

27:36

How about you give me 10% of

27:38

the company? I'll pay you for it

27:40

over time because they don't have that

27:42

kind of that kind of money. Paul

27:44

Mitchell, but I'm going to end this

27:47

story before I go in the Paul

27:49

Mitchell story. I started Paul Mitchell. Two

27:51

years later, all of a sudden, something,

27:53

a grand revelation came to my head.

27:55

Oh my God, this is fate. Finding

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last. If it wasn't, what I learned

30:29

at Redkin. What I learned in syntax

30:31

from it at all, what I learned

30:33

in the instant psychology, what was distribution,

30:35

what was packaging. It would have been

30:37

impossible, Michael, impossible, whether it was for

30:40

millions of dollars or the measly 700

30:42

I had to start the company, impossible

30:44

to start a company. That's fate. I

30:46

was fired. I did good. That fate

30:48

had to happen, or Paul Mitchell would

30:50

have never happened. So if weird things

30:53

happened to you, especially in your employment,

30:55

it's just opening you up for something

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you now looking back with wisdom. Yeah.

31:01

Okay, but at the time, did you

31:04

say, did you have a framing of

31:06

this adversity like, damn it, I'm fired

31:08

again, why me? Or was the framing,

31:10

okay, you know, like things are going

31:12

to work out, let's just keep kind

31:15

of plugging along. How did you frame

31:17

it at the time? At the time,

31:19

each time, it was the same thing.

31:21

That's okay. If we're not happy here.

31:23

I'm not going to be happy anymore,

31:25

okay? I'll find another job really easy.

31:28

I put the word out. And because

31:30

I did really get what I did,

31:32

I had a reputation already. So I

31:34

pick up the phone and I get

31:36

a hold of this guy. With syntax,

31:39

they found out about me not being

31:41

with record and they came to me.

31:43

What was your craft? My craft was

31:45

being able to treat people with kindness

31:47

and show them how to think positively

31:50

and take the most negative comment you

31:52

could ever have and turn it around.

31:54

One little example I'll give you. If

31:56

I wanted to try and sell you,

31:58

let's take sell it, an idea, your

32:00

wife, husband, business person, idea, and for

32:03

a very good reason they say no,

32:05

I'm overstocked or I don't even want

32:07

to hear it. How in the world

32:09

do you turn all that into positive?

32:11

Sometimes it's just with a few words.

32:14

One, you're not going to argue with

32:16

them, you're wrong, I'm right, because everyone's

32:18

going to defend themselves. So what do

32:20

you do? You make them right first.

32:22

So what I do? And it's so

32:25

simple. And it's honest. You could say,

32:27

you know, I can appreciate that. I

32:29

could see why you think that way.

32:31

I don't blame you. I think the

32:33

same way. You'll think the same way.

32:36

And then I go back into what

32:38

I wanted to say, would you look

32:40

at it a little bit differently? Okay,

32:42

but you're right, 100% right. And sometimes

32:44

I get you over the hump or

32:46

also teaching people when to keep your

32:49

mouth shut, especially when the other person's

32:51

talking, don't say a word. Many times,

32:53

let's say it's with your wife or

32:55

good friend, you know, you have a

32:57

good friend, they just want to be

33:00

heard. When you're done, hearing me, hearing

33:02

me go, okay, okay, thank you, thank

33:04

you, and that's the end of it.

33:06

And that's the end of it. And

33:08

that's the end of it. So I

33:11

just know there's something better out there.

33:13

I love this because when I asked

33:15

about your craft, you didn't say sales.

33:17

You said helping people work through to

33:19

get to a yes is basically what

33:21

I hear you saying. And not giving

33:24

up. My craft is not giving up.

33:26

Well, to me, yeah, that's interesting. And

33:28

teaching others. Don't give up on a

33:30

conversation. Just make it nice. Make it

33:32

nice. And the way you do that

33:35

is by seeing the person. And at

33:37

the same time, you're holding your ambition,

33:39

your goal in a... a sanctity sure

33:41

and you're holding them in a sanctity

33:43

and you're navigating between those two eloquently

33:46

right yeah okay so it but the

33:48

industry is really at this point sales

33:50

sales right right right and putting together

33:52

your own marketing and enough people to

33:54

put your own formulation together so you

33:56

do need some outside help to okay

33:59

and then how do you bridge master

34:01

your mastery of craft and a sense

34:03

of mastery of self How do you

34:05

square those two ideas? That's the real

34:07

hard part, because the more good books

34:10

I read on this, the more great

34:12

things like your podcast that people might

34:14

listen to, you pick up one more

34:16

little thing you're not doing right now,

34:18

and you incorporate into your everyday life.

34:21

I used to get passages or things

34:23

I wanted to change. One of the

34:25

big ones was, try and be the

34:27

observer without judgment. If you could be

34:29

in every situation, the observer, but don't

34:31

judge it, good or bad, just do

34:34

that. It just releases just so much

34:36

in you, but I highly recommend people

34:38

read books. You learn so much by

34:40

reading good books. Positive books. Is mindfulness

34:42

one of your practices, because I hear

34:45

you speaking about meditation slash mindfulness, but

34:47

I don't know if you have a

34:49

practice of doing it. My meditation takes

34:51

about five minutes. That's it. I wake

34:53

up in the morning, I do what

34:56

most people do, go to the bathroom,

34:58

you know, maybe try and drink some

35:00

more water before I go right back

35:02

in bed. And I try and stay

35:04

there for about five minutes and just

35:07

clear my mind. Just kind of stay

35:09

like this and clear my mind. And

35:11

if something comes in my mind, I

35:13

just say, no, no, no. And I

35:15

look at a blank. piece of white

35:17

paper in front of me of my

35:20

eyes closed, or I open my eyes

35:22

and say, okay, I'm in the room,

35:24

that's the ceiling, that's the door, I

35:26

try and get to real present time

35:28

for about five minutes. I don't think

35:31

about my day or anything, then I

35:33

get up and I incorporate my business

35:35

into my usual day, so becomes part

35:37

of my lifestyle, not a job. I

35:39

stopped working when I started Paul Mitch.

35:42

living in my car with the 700

35:44

bucks. I stopped working. I was happy.

35:46

When you love what you do, you're

35:48

not working anymore. So I'm working there

35:50

in the industry. Now I'm a consultant.

35:52

I'm fired by three companies, so I

35:55

tried to consulting. If you could afford

35:57

to pay me, and I was reasonable,

35:59

okay, I told you everything you needed

36:01

to know quick. Three months, everything you

36:03

wanted to know, I would tell you.

36:06

About what? But anything, sales, marketing, how

36:08

to train your people, how to be

36:10

it. If you didn't have a lot

36:12

of money, I was kind of running

36:14

your company for you, and two, three

36:17

weeks behind and even getting paid. So

36:19

I thought to, with my dear friend,

36:21

Paul, Paul Mitchell, Paul Mitchell, Paul Mitchell,

36:23

who was a great, Paul Mitchell, who

36:25

was a great, who was a great,

36:27

who was a coming together. You are

36:30

a great hairdresser and he was he

36:32

was like one of the top instructing

36:34

hairdressers in the nation people would pay

36:36

money to go to his seminar C

36:38

he started the crimpers and Wash and

36:41

wear hair in the United States from

36:43

Vidal Sassoon Unbelievably good guys and I

36:45

said I know the business part and

36:47

I've got the people do formulation we

36:49

need now this is 1979 1980. $500,000,

36:52

I could start a company that cheap

36:54

because I knew how to do it,

36:56

right? I had the money set up

36:58

through a friend of mine, Mr. David

37:00

Oldhouse, who is with Citibank. Someone in

37:02

Europe wanted to donate the money. He

37:05

said, great, he could have 40% of

37:07

the business, Paul and I each take

37:09

30, right? We were all set. I

37:11

quit everything I was doing, so I

37:13

went down the hill to get the

37:16

money. Nothing was there at the Bank

37:18

of America Universal City. Dick Holt house

37:20

found me later on in the day.

37:22

He said, JP, I've got the worst

37:24

news for you, okay? But it just

37:27

happened. He said, he changed his mind,

37:29

he didn't send it in this morning,

37:31

and he got me through a friend

37:33

who found me, right? And I said,

37:35

why? Inflation in the United States in

37:37

1980 and 81 was 12 and a

37:40

half percent. Not way more than it

37:42

is today. Unemployment. was 10.5%. Loans, if

37:44

you could get a loan, the cheapest

37:46

rate was 7%. percent interest if you

37:48

get a loan and we waited in

37:51

line for gasoline. Now you and no

37:53

money. Now you talk about a time

37:55

to start a business down and out.

37:57

What was the first thought in mind?

37:59

Okay this guy ordered 200,000 bottles from

38:02

this guy 100,000 silk screen them and

38:04

this guy 100,000 to fill them right?

38:06

What the hell am I going to

38:08

do? I've got to get lower inventories

38:10

and figure out a way to get

38:13

it made right away. Call the silk

38:15

screener and called the bottle guy and

38:17

said... And they all knew that this

38:19

would be a big business, right? So

38:21

who are your business partners at this

38:23

point? Paul Mitchell, period. Just the two

38:26

of you, and there's no money coming

38:28

in. No, zero. There's an idea. Nobody,

38:30

no, nothing, right? Yeah, okay, got it,

38:32

yeah. So first thing I did was

38:34

I had to lower what I had

38:37

to get, right? So the first thing

38:39

I did was. called up the bottle

38:41

man and asked for a trial sample

38:43

run of only 10,000 bottles. So he

38:45

wouldn't get freaked out. He goes, oh,

38:48

of course, a mammation asked for sample

38:50

run before. I immediately called the silk

38:52

screener, a sample run of tens coming,

38:54

I mean, of 10,000, and I called

38:56

the filler, a sample run. Every one

38:58

of them had 30 day billing for

39:01

me before anything went wrong. Hey, we

39:03

got the money. I came up. Here's

39:05

my, here. From the time I delivered

39:07

it, the pay 30 days, 30 days,

39:09

right? Okay. What I owed the money,

39:12

right? I needed the money then. From

39:14

the time I pulled the trigger and

39:16

said, bottles, ship it to the screener,

39:18

it took two weeks for the first

39:20

run to be full. Shampoo one, shampoo

39:23

two and a leave in the condition,

39:25

right? Two weeks. I had two weeks

39:27

before the first one was due. I

39:29

filled my car full of... our products

39:31

and drove right up into a boulevard

39:33

in Studio City with School of Sloan

39:36

and knocked like encyclopedias, okay, door to

39:38

door selling my product, right? I had

39:40

challenges. One, no distributor, no advertising money,

39:42

and nothing to really sell. I knew

39:44

it had a lot of adversity. your

39:47

new, no advertising dollars, no team, whatever.

39:49

So I went out and it took

39:51

me a week to get 12 salons

39:53

to buy my product anywhere from $27

39:55

to $130, okay, per order. But they

39:58

left it blank on top. And I'm

40:00

pretty good at selling, but no, you

40:02

never heard of us before. I had

40:04

to really convince these people. So it

40:06

took me that long and I probably

40:08

made it. What did blank on top

40:11

mean? In the words, the check. wasn't

40:13

filled out of my name. They filled

40:15

out the check. So please leave it

40:17

open and just put the amount in.

40:19

And it wasn't big heavy dollars. So

40:22

of course they did that. I now

40:24

had 12 checks in my pocket, okay?

40:26

And 12 orders that were signed. I

40:28

went to the biggest, and also I

40:30

knew I need it money now. I

40:33

could not wait 45 days. 45 days

40:35

is how the beauty industry professional pays

40:37

their bills. I needed it now. So

40:39

I added on to the wholesale price.

40:41

Five percent. I went and saw the

40:44

first distributor and I asked him, I

40:46

showed him our products. Nice man, Jim

40:48

Henrietta. He said, you're a nice man.

40:50

Pretty products. He says, but I'm the

40:52

biggest distributor. I'll be building your brand

40:54

for you. You have no advertising budget.

40:57

You're honest. Nubby, but you and a

40:59

hairdress doesn't know anything about business, okay?

41:01

You know, thank you, but there's not

41:03

enough for you to take on your

41:05

line. I said, Sir, can I give

41:08

you take on your take on your

41:10

take on your take on your take

41:12

on your take on your line. So

41:14

I pulled out of my pocket 12

41:16

checks and put them right in front

41:19

of them and I said, There's your

41:21

first 12 customers. I've already sold them

41:23

for you. Sign your name to those

41:25

checks there. They're yours. Here's the orders.

41:27

And I will show up. We were

41:29

really hard up. If you will only

41:32

buy $2,000 worth of our products, that's

41:34

all. Again, we were really hard up,

41:36

right? I'll give you all of LA

41:38

County and Orange County exclusively. We just

41:40

need money. He laughed his head off

41:43

and said, okay, but you better be

41:45

here tomorrow and be here every single

41:47

day working with the sales. Okay? Until

41:49

it's gone. Okay? What you do. I

41:51

said, sure, well, I said, but there's

41:54

one more thing I got to ask

41:56

you. I said, when I deliver the

41:58

products when they're delivered, can you please

42:00

pay me?" He laughed and he said

42:02

told it at our 25th anniversary which

42:04

was 20 years ago or 45 years

42:07

now. Anyways, he said, so this JP

42:09

walks out of my office, I'm laughing,

42:11

best presentation I've ever had. Within three

42:13

minutes my warehouse guy's calling me for

42:16

one of my warehouse around back. He

42:18

says some guys are loading stuff on

42:20

our back counter on the shipping dock

42:22

and wants to check for 2000. laughed

42:25

his head off right, signed the cheque

42:27

back, given he could barely keep his breath

42:29

laughing, said, you better be here, right? And

42:31

that's how I got some money and how

42:33

he started the company. So you didn't use

42:36

that as cash flow. I thought you were

42:38

selling to the individuals the 12 salons for

42:40

cash flow so you could pay for the

42:42

first 10,000. You were using it as leverage.

42:45

for distribution. To pay the darn bill up.

42:47

I lived up $2.50 a day. I had

42:49

a few hundred dollars in my pocket when

42:51

I went down the hill, but I need

42:54

a little more. My partner flew and

42:56

he's a little older than me, wanted

42:58

some cash. No money came in. So

43:00

I said, Paul, how much can you afford?

43:02

He's just 350 bucks. I said, Paul, I

43:04

have about $250, but I needed to live

43:07

off of. So I went to see my

43:09

mother. I was too proud. This was a

43:11

mistake I made in life. I should have

43:13

said, Mom, I'm down and out. I started

43:15

a new company. Can I have my

43:17

old bed back? And well, you feed

43:19

me. She was said, of course. I

43:21

was too proud. I said, Mom, can

43:23

I borrow $350 from you? You're making

43:26

good money. Why? I said, Mom, I'll

43:28

pay it back. I'm starting another company.

43:30

Okay, new company, you should be on

43:32

your own anyways. Go ahead. Never told

43:34

her. She didn't know until a special

43:36

was done on me with, oh my

43:38

God, the guy who did lifestyles of

43:40

the rich and famous, Robin Leach, right?

43:42

Yes, that's right. She didn't know how down

43:45

an I was, and I was, and she cried.

43:47

Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, we're

43:49

gonna do it, we're gonna make it. Here's what

43:51

happened at 700 bucks. Paul had 350,

43:53

I had 350. Before anything had happened,

43:55

I had to go to the artists

43:57

that did the artwork on our three

43:59

products. turned into the silk screener. We

44:01

told him the truth. He says, I'll

44:04

never get the thousand dollars you owe

44:06

me for the artwork. I'll take the

44:08

seven hundred. But that's all we have.

44:10

I'm sorry, I'll never get the other

44:12

three hundred anyways. So there we were.

44:14

Paul had enough money to get back

44:17

to Hawaii, cut hair over there, and

44:19

I had a... Find out a way

44:21

to live off 99 cents for breakfast

44:23

and a dollar and a quarter for

44:25

lunch you figure out a way when

44:28

you're down and out This is awesome.

44:30

Yeah, tell us story give people hope

44:32

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46:32

There's two ways I want to pivot

46:34

the conversation. One is you are renowned

46:36

for how long people work in your

46:38

company. Okay, so I do want to

46:41

understand what you're doing in the culture.

46:43

as a leader to create a team

46:45

that is enduring. I also, I also

46:47

want to ask you a question about,

46:49

you were young and scrappy and full

46:52

of like, I need to make something

46:54

happen. Like you were, now you're, you're

46:56

the wise man. I think you're 80,

46:58

80, 80, 80. A couple months, 81.

47:00

Almost 81. Do you think you could

47:02

do it again, you know, 45 years

47:05

later? Like, I want to go both

47:07

of those directions. Maybe you could pick

47:09

up which direction you want to go.

47:11

How you created the culture and speak

47:13

right to the leaders of companies about

47:16

what you do to keep great talent.

47:18

Let me combine kind of the two

47:20

together. Okay. Yeah. When I started Patron

47:22

in 1989, myself and my partner at

47:24

the time, okay, knew nothing about the

47:26

alcohol business. Zero. We had to learn.

47:29

industry. And this is this is like

47:31

1988. This is 1989. 89. I think

47:33

people forget that Patron has only been

47:35

around since 1989. Yeah, exactly. That's it.

47:37

Yeah, it feels like it was there

47:40

forever. We didn't buy it. We started

47:42

it. The name and everything. We got

47:44

a whole live. So when we started

47:46

Patron and we were lucky to get

47:48

the name, right? When we started Patron

47:50

with small units, we brought it to

47:53

the United States and nobody... would touch

47:55

it. We went to every distributor. They

47:57

said it's the best tequila in the

47:59

world, but you want $37.95 a bottle.

48:01

The average tequila in those days was

48:04

about $5 a bottle. They said it's

48:06

the best guys, but no one's going

48:08

to pay that kind of money. So

48:10

we ended up going with a wine

48:12

distributor where we talked him into it.

48:14

I would personally show up and do

48:17

his sales meeting for him, rah rah

48:19

rah, you know. So we started. After

48:21

one year we dropped him, he only

48:23

sold a thousand cases. That was it.

48:25

Because he said, guys, it's just too

48:28

expensive. We went with Jim Beam, giant

48:30

distributor. He took a piece, and then

48:32

we went to all of his distributors

48:34

who took a piece, right? After about

48:36

a year and a half, Jim Beam

48:38

came to us and said, guys, I

48:41

know you're disappointed. We're only selling 12,000

48:43

bottles a year, but we're going to

48:45

tell you the truth. but too expensive.

48:47

Lower the price will happen. We didn't

48:49

believe when we dropped him and we

48:52

took on Seagram's. Seagram's took it to

48:54

70,000 cases a year. We knew we

48:56

could do better by that point. We

48:58

took him to court and bought him

49:00

with cash. out of their agreement with

49:02

us. We bought him out of their

49:05

agreement, right? We took over. For the

49:07

brand that was never supposed to do

49:09

more than 20,000 cases a year, when

49:11

I sold Patron over six years ago,

49:13

which went for the highest amount ever

49:16

paid for any spirits company, we were

49:18

doing just with Patron Silvers alone, about

49:20

3,500,000 cases, all-time record. Just for silver.

49:22

So how do we- treat people. How

49:24

do I get people to stay a

49:26

long time? It's just doing what I

49:29

wish happened to me. much adversity in

49:31

my life. I could remember the times

49:33

when I had one dollar for lunch

49:35

and now I'm in my late 20s.

49:37

I had one book for lunch, right?

49:40

You don't get much for a dollar.

49:42

So my first thought was I'm going

49:44

to treat people the way I'm treated.

49:46

But expect out of people what I

49:48

expect out of myself. So I had

49:50

no money at Paul Mitchell hire anybody.

49:53

Six months later, I had just enough

49:55

to hire for very little Shirley Wong.

49:57

She now answered the phone, shift the

49:59

order, she did 10 different things, because

50:01

I could do 10 different things, and

50:04

I could do what I did best,

50:06

because Shirley was doing the rest. And

50:08

she did a great job with us.

50:10

So what I did was as soon

50:12

as I could afford it, was if

50:14

you were working for me, okay, you

50:17

got free lunch every day. dollar and

50:19

not have lunch. So I don't care

50:21

whether you're wealthy, whether you're not wealthy,

50:23

whether you have a sandwich bag, everyone

50:25

that works for me is going to

50:28

have free lunch and eventually you pick

50:30

off a menu, what do you want?

50:32

We still have that today. And I

50:34

can remember when people say do it

50:36

because I said so. I'm the boss.

50:38

And boy, that doesn't sound right. So

50:41

I made sure that when I talked

50:43

to my people, I talked to them

50:45

as if they are my partner and

50:47

I love them and they love me

50:49

and I treat people that way. So

50:52

I would say kindness in thinking of

50:54

the other person along the way. And

50:56

sometimes you've got to put good feeling

50:58

and peace in front of profit. It's

51:00

amazing. I mean, as I'm listening, it

51:02

feels like there's such tight alignment between

51:05

your principles and your words and your

51:07

actions. that wherever you go you are

51:09

you right and kindness gratitude building you

51:11

know whether it's building people or building

51:13

companies is all part of how you've

51:16

designed your life oh yeah and it

51:18

by the way and I did try

51:20

to be other people before and it

51:22

was terrible is a total failure it's

51:24

what are some important habits that you

51:26

have to help you what are some

51:29

important habits that you have to help

51:31

you This zest, the spark for life.

51:33

And one of them you did share,

51:35

which is like, let's call it five

51:37

minutes of meditation in bed. What are

51:40

some other important habits that you've developed

51:42

over time? One is drink a lot

51:44

of water and do it before three

51:46

in the afternoon or you're up all

51:48

night going to the bathroom. Okay, a

51:50

lot of water, you know. And try

51:53

and reach, half your weight. in ounces,

51:55

like I weigh 170 pounds, that'd be

51:57

85 pounds, 85 ounces a lot for

51:59

me to drink, but I'll get to

52:01

50 or 60 ounces and I start

52:04

in the morning. So that's one to

52:06

hydrate yourself. Other things that I will

52:08

catch myself occasionally judging somebody, but when

52:10

I catch it I immediately stop. I

52:12

just stop period, but I do catch

52:14

myself. trying to pick up a sentence

52:17

because I'm so excited before the other

52:19

person is done, so I'll catch myself.

52:21

You know, so these are things along

52:23

the way that help me be better

52:25

because even though it's seldom that I

52:28

catch myself today because I'm really learning

52:30

a lot, you know, and I feel

52:32

good about it. Every time it does,

52:34

I get an uplift. And being kind

52:36

of people is the best thing. How

52:38

do you start being kind of people?

52:41

The first three living souls you see.

52:43

Just go three. When you wake up,

52:45

when you wake up. door man, first

52:47

three people, make it a point just

52:49

to smile and say good morning, that's

52:52

all you got to do, good morning,

52:54

you'll find yourself doing to the third,

52:56

fourth, fifth, and tenth person, good morning,

52:58

just good morning, that's all, the three,

53:00

just go for three, don't go for

53:02

three, don't go for a million because

53:05

it'll catch on, you'll go to four

53:07

next time, you'll say hi, nice to

53:09

see you, it just changes your attitude,

53:11

you feel like right now. people say,

53:13

JP, what are you going to retire?

53:16

You know, you're going to retire decades

53:18

ago. I said, retire? Are you kidding?

53:20

I stopped working when I lived in

53:22

my car. I love what I'm doing

53:24

it today. It's like, I love what

53:26

I'm doing here. Coming out or do

53:29

a podcast for someone, that's going to

53:31

affect millions of people. What is one

53:33

of my goals in life now to

53:35

affect multi? and over a billion people

53:37

to have better lives. That's my goal

53:40

now in life, no matter how long

53:42

it takes. You have made something that

53:44

is aspirationally available to people, you know,

53:46

like these very simple practices. You've done

53:48

it so enthusiastically and so clearly in

53:50

this conversation that it feels like on

53:53

the other side, I'm going, yeah, of

53:55

course. Oh, that's so simple. You've built

53:57

really successful companies. And you have. Such

53:59

a positive outlook you are a leader

54:01

of leaders. What guidance would you give

54:04

the leader of our free country? I

54:06

would say Do everything you can with

54:08

kindness. If you got to put somebody

54:10

down, do it in a jokingly matter,

54:12

but throw something kind in there. That's

54:14

number one. Okay? Number two, in leading

54:17

our country, give the other guy a

54:19

chance to talk and do look at

54:21

both sides of everything. And when you

54:23

do something, let the world know about

54:25

it. How do you deal with loss?

54:28

How do you deal with loss? that

54:30

I really felt was when my brother

54:32

died at a very young age. I

54:34

was 27 years old in Topanga Canyon.

54:36

He was getting his motorcycle and he

54:38

extended the front end and went around

54:41

a corner too fast when flying off

54:43

into a wall and unfortunately killed him.

54:45

And he was just one of the

54:47

best. friends, one could ever have been

54:49

my friend, my brother. When we were

54:52

in foster care, because my mother was

54:54

sick from age five to nine and

54:56

a half, my brother was there protecting

54:58

me, doing whatever he could, and that

55:00

was just a huge loss. I lost

55:02

my best friend, not just my brother.

55:05

That I really felt in my heart

55:07

for a while. And how do you

55:09

give guidance to people that are in

55:11

the thro of loss or grief right

55:13

now? Well, as I learn more about

55:16

we the people, and I started to

55:18

learn that, we are not the body.

55:20

We are the entity, we are the

55:22

life form in that body. That's what

55:24

we are, okay? And one could believe

55:26

whatever they want to believe, which is

55:29

wonderful, that's our own beliefs. But my

55:31

full belief now with conviction is we

55:33

are not... the body, we're being in

55:35

a body, and we learn as time

55:37

goes on, and we cannot change yesterday's

55:40

newspaper. When we leave the body, we're

55:42

at a place that's very, very big

55:44

and very, very spiritual. My mother died

55:46

twice, and once in her late 90s,

55:48

and told me about the afterlife experience,

55:50

and my mother was impossible of lying.

55:53

She just could not lie. My mom

55:55

could not lie. Okay, she was one

55:57

of those people, right? But she died,

55:59

and she saw the whole the whole

56:01

thing. her and they had the paddles

56:04

there right were losing her and then

56:06

saw her flat line and she was

56:08

out of her body on the ceiling

56:10

watching and then when they popped her

56:12

like that she went right back into

56:14

the body she says boys it was

56:17

a matter of seconds but I knew

56:19

everything it was so peaceful it was

56:21

so peaceful I don't even want to

56:23

go back in there again she says

56:25

nothing to be afraid of she says

56:28

but I guess I just didn't have

56:30

the ticket that I needed on that

56:32

train I had to go back again

56:34

I went back to a ballroom dancing

56:36

well into her 90 her 90s So

56:38

how do you spend your time now?

56:41

You've got a castle in Scotland. You've

56:43

got a place here in LA You've

56:45

got a beautiful home in Texas like

56:47

how do you spend your time? Well

56:49

for one when I made that call

56:51

it a big score and I sold

56:54

patron. And you know, I could do

56:56

things that could be exciting. So I

56:58

got in the hospitality business. These places

57:00

like in the Costa Rica, Barbuda, the

57:02

castle, whatever, are developments, you know, like

57:05

all inclusive, private club, just first class

57:07

all the way, where we could hire

57:09

the local people at the same time

57:11

and take care of them. I'll give

57:13

you one example, motivate me and Barbuda,

57:15

beautiful island, nine miles of beach, 97%

57:18

unemployed. They were subsidized and selling their

57:20

sand to get enough money to be

57:22

able to exist on and still subsidize

57:24

them in Antigua, their sister island, right?

57:26

And so I bought this beautiful beach,

57:29

gorgeous property there. Rutherford I buy it,

57:31

the tornado, the hurricane comes through and

57:33

wipes the whole island out, people and

57:35

all. So I was able to send

57:37

one of the Sea Shepherd. boats down

57:39

there that I bought the Sea Shepherds

57:42

to pick up the people and bring

57:44

them to Antigua. So they have better

57:46

shelter there. Island was ruined, right? Why

57:48

did I do this? I'm going to

57:50

bring back every sand dune, I've got

57:53

the money, I'm going to bring back

57:55

the coral. The coral was disappearing. I'm

57:57

going to bring the people, I'm going

57:59

to bring the turtles back, and the

58:01

people are all going to have jobs

58:03

now, and I'm going to create something

58:06

like that. That's exactly what I did.

58:08

It took care of the ocean, it

58:10

took care of the environment, and it

58:12

took care of people. directly for our

58:14

project and anybody else that wants a

58:17

job with us could get a job

58:19

with us doing something. We were able

58:21

to employ them and then I was

58:23

able to sell to them why they

58:25

should be their own entrepreneurs. I'll give

58:27

you Abishir. Abishir is taller than I

58:30

am and his hair comes right down

58:32

his ankles and they're pure dreadlocks. Love

58:34

you bro. Just a cool dude, right?

58:36

Anyways, and he was in jail for

58:38

a while for marijuana possession, stupid stuff.

58:41

He now has his own business with

58:43

13 employees taking care of our golf

58:45

course, and we are his only customers,

58:47

but he's the boss, and now 14

58:49

people work. So we encourage that. Well,

58:51

what's the end result? Everybody's happy there.

58:54

They love the heck out of you.

58:56

They want to do everything first class

58:58

and feel special now. They have extra

59:00

money to buy clothes with telephonesos. Rebuilds.

59:02

Rebuild your house. a garden, ourselves a

59:05

garden at the same time, with organic

59:07

food to eat. And we're rebuilding the

59:09

coral now for the world. And I

59:11

started with Dr. Deborah Broson, and we

59:13

put up a lap together, and we

59:15

are growing coral in the water. We

59:18

put together a man-made reef, and we

59:20

put together a man-made reef, and we

59:22

put together a man-made reef, and we

59:24

put together a man-made reef, the world

59:26

ocean conference. Now they're coming to these

59:29

really cool things. and give. Okay, I

59:31

got a couple quick hits for you.

59:33

Okay, so just kind of like one

59:35

or two word answers on these. It

59:37

all comes down to... Being kind to

59:39

people. Living the good life is marked

59:42

by... Being happy. Success is... Success unshared

59:44

is happiness. Success, though more important, is

59:46

not where you are now in life.

59:48

How far did you come to get

59:50

there? Quick story. You could always... Canada,

59:53

right? Quick story. In high school, I

59:55

always had a job. I worked for

59:57

stewards cleaners. One day I come from

59:59

high school down to stewards to brush

1:00:01

a blanket sweep of floors. Stewart comes

1:00:03

up to me. He paid me a

1:00:06

dollar and a quarter of an hour

1:00:08

because it was the law. He was

1:00:10

so tight, this guy, or he would

1:00:12

give me 50 cents if he had

1:00:14

to, right? He said, Johnny, I gotta

1:00:17

talk to you. They call me Johnny

1:00:19

in those days. I said, oh shit,

1:00:21

that's going on right. Anyway, she says,

1:00:23

last night, after you were gone, I

1:00:25

worked late. I went up to my

1:00:27

mezzanine and took my watch off to

1:00:30

lay on the, we had those old-time

1:00:32

concept there. He says, I dropped on

1:00:34

the floor, I picked it up and.

1:00:36

cot was exposed, there was no dust

1:00:38

under it. So I moved the cot.

1:00:41

There was no dust behind it. And

1:00:43

I looked behind a couple of things.

1:00:45

There was no dust. You moved everything

1:00:47

when you swept. I said, well, yes,

1:00:49

Stuart, I liked my job. My mom

1:00:51

told me as I was a kid

1:00:54

how to clanks. We cleaned the house

1:00:56

for my mom, right? My brother and

1:00:58

I just... I'm doing the job you're

1:01:00

paying me for. He goes, you're doing

1:01:02

the job as if I'm watching you

1:01:05

every minute. I've never seen anybody like

1:01:07

that. He says, I'm going to give

1:01:09

you a raise. He raised me to

1:01:11

$1.50 an hour. I was probably the...

1:01:13

I just paid kid in high school

1:01:15

where I went to high school anyways

1:01:18

right for $1.50 an hour. I was

1:01:20

successful. I was the most successful janitor

1:01:22

in the world. Success is happiness and

1:01:24

how far you go from where you

1:01:26

started and what do you do when

1:01:29

no one else is around? How successful

1:01:31

are you being yourself? That's success. There's

1:01:33

some of the happiest people in the

1:01:35

world and what they're doing and they're

1:01:37

happy at it and they grew in

1:01:39

it to do it the very very

1:01:42

very best. Money is... Money is a

1:01:44

vehicle to do good things with and

1:01:46

if you have financial success unless you

1:01:48

share it it's failure. And I do

1:01:50

that a lot, you know, it's really,

1:01:53

really good. If you could sit with

1:01:55

one true master, master of craft, master

1:01:57

of self, who would it be, and

1:01:59

what one question would you want to

1:02:01

ask them? Who would I love to

1:02:03

be with? If I could get back

1:02:06

to the original creator who did all

1:02:08

this, you know, five billion, ten, fifteen

1:02:10

billion years ago, oh, I would just

1:02:12

love to be there and say thank

1:02:14

you. That's what you say, thank you.

1:02:17

No question, just thank you. You are

1:02:19

the tall flagpole that people are able

1:02:21

to look to to say, okay, he's

1:02:23

on it, he really understands it. What

1:02:25

insights would you pass on to them?

1:02:27

Are there two bits of advice, three

1:02:30

bits of us, something that is really

1:02:32

important that you want to make sure

1:02:34

they understand? Yeah. Number one is this,

1:02:36

make sure your service or your product,

1:02:38

in case not a physical product, is

1:02:41

the best it could be, do not

1:02:43

go into the selling business. go into

1:02:45

the reorder business. Because if it's as

1:02:47

good as they could possibly be, and

1:02:49

people love it, they're gonna wanna reorder

1:02:51

it, or tell their friends if it's

1:02:54

a service. Because most people put it

1:02:56

into, how do we sell it, marketing

1:02:58

material, this, this, this, this, and then

1:03:00

like take the cosmetic industry. Many things

1:03:02

in my industry are good for three

1:03:05

to five years, so you gotta replace,

1:03:07

replace it, okay? Because of the quality,

1:03:09

my first three products 45 years ago,

1:03:11

shampoo one, shampoo two, the conditioner, scoping

1:03:13

lotion, are still some of our bestsellers

1:03:15

45 years later. So your service must

1:03:18

be the best. They could tell others

1:03:20

about it. The product must be the

1:03:22

best so they could reorder. The second

1:03:24

thing is. Be prepared for failure. If

1:03:26

you're prepared for rejection is the word,

1:03:29

like I was, and they prepared me

1:03:31

when I sold encyclopedias door to door.

1:03:33

Keep on knocking me just as enthusiastic

1:03:35

on door number 51 as you were

1:03:37

on the first door, right? And I

1:03:39

did it, door 100, God knows what,

1:03:42

right? In other words, if you know

1:03:44

you're gonna be rejected, you're not gonna

1:03:46

fall out right away. You're not gonna

1:03:48

immediately disappear with it, okay? There's one

1:03:50

last question I have for you. is

1:03:53

there's an idea in the business world

1:03:55

that to be really successful, you need

1:03:57

to be cutthroat. Is that true? Bullshit.

1:03:59

Yeah. That's not the word. Yes. I'm

1:04:01

kind. Yeah. My cutthroat. You're not. No,

1:04:03

I'm not. If anything, my downfall is

1:04:06

sometimes people. So you're just too nice.

1:04:08

JP. And I've lost some money. I've

1:04:10

invested in some investments or business in

1:04:12

the past. Isn't shape. You're just so

1:04:14

nice. You just so, once I got

1:04:17

all this money. I had a home

1:04:19

office. Now I have the best attorneys,

1:04:21

the best accountants. They do it all,

1:04:23

right? But they do it with kindness.

1:04:25

I even taught them like recently there

1:04:27

was someone that did something not so

1:04:30

good. So I said when you write

1:04:32

them letters, make it nice. Just you

1:04:34

know, thank you for all the help

1:04:36

you've given us. Put something nice, not

1:04:38

a, you really screwed up, my God,

1:04:41

I think you did this wrong. Always

1:04:43

end it nice. Go in nice and

1:04:45

end it nice. So that is still

1:04:47

my same feeling there. But instead of

1:04:49

someone saying to me, you're just too

1:04:51

nice, they're strong as caffeine. But they

1:04:54

can be not so strong, but in

1:04:56

a very nice way. JP, your legend.

1:04:58

Thank you so much for today. Michael,

1:05:00

this has been a real pleasure speaking

1:05:02

with you. I'll come on your podcast

1:05:05

any time you want. I love this.

1:05:07

Thank you so much. You're very well

1:05:09

concerned. That

1:05:11

was amazing. I loved that conversation. It

1:05:13

was so rich. It was so good.

1:05:16

What did you think, Emma? He is

1:05:18

awesome. What a journey he's been on

1:05:20

his entire life. What a treat we

1:05:23

get to learn from. Literally, the best

1:05:25

in the world. So who do we

1:05:27

have next? Next up, we've got Sasha

1:05:29

De Julian. She was great. Oh, you

1:05:32

like that one too? Yes. She is

1:05:34

insanely talented and also just really lovely.

1:05:36

For those of you who may not

1:05:39

know, Sasha. She's one of the most

1:05:41

accomplished climbers climbers in the most accomplished

1:05:43

climbers in the world. She made history

1:05:45

as the first American woman to win

1:05:48

a World Cup title and was the

1:05:50

first woman to climb a 514D, which,

1:05:52

trust me, and the climbing speed, I'm

1:05:55

not a climber, but I know these

1:05:57

people, it's as hard as it gets.

1:05:59

Sasha opens up about pushing through the

1:06:01

toughest moment, battling self-doubt, how she found

1:06:04

strength after life changing barriers in a

1:06:06

male... nominated sport to redefining success on

1:06:08

her own terms. Sasha's story is one

1:06:11

of resilience of raw honesty. Tune in

1:06:13

for this really powerful conversation. All right,

1:06:15

thank you so much for diving into

1:06:17

another episode of Finding Mastery with us.

1:06:20

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1:06:22

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1:07:12

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1:07:49

thank you for listening. Until next episode,

1:07:51

be well. Think well. Keep exploring.