0:00

M hm m

0:03

m. Mr

0:06

Rogers tried to get us to be our best self. That's

0:09

a phrase that you know, we hear variations

0:12

of it a lot now, right like live your best life,

0:14

be your best self. What

0:17

we usually mean by that now is

0:20

seek pathways to your own joy

0:23

and the kind of self

0:25

celebration you want to experience, which

0:27

I think is great and I'm a firm believer

0:29

in that self love is really radical

0:32

and important. But

0:35

when we say that Mr Rogers wanted people to

0:37

be their best self, there's something about

0:40

like just encouraging

0:42

people to be good, right, to

0:44

be good and to be kind to

0:46

themselves and to other people that I

0:48

actually think is a really rare

0:52

message. I don't know

0:54

who is telling children

0:57

or anyone be kind,

1:00

you know, and in a way that is lived out

1:02

in their example, and not

1:04

like moralizing or pedantic

1:07

or condescending. Fred

1:11

Rogers is everywhere right

1:13

now, on t shirts and calendars

1:16

and coffee mugs. There's a movie

1:18

and multiple books, articles and major magazines

1:20

and of course this podcast. And

1:23

it seems to me the reason we're seeing

1:25

him everywhere is that we believe, collectively

1:28

there's something in what he taught us

1:31

that we need right now. But

1:35

are we understanding the right thing

1:38

about him and his work? Or

1:40

are we just in love with the niceness,

1:43

the nostalgia, the feel good. Not

1:45

that those are bad things in and of themselves,

1:48

but are they enough? Is

1:51

it enough to fall in love with this idea

1:53

that each of us is likable? Is

1:56

that even the right idea? Because

1:59

I don't think that's all there was to

2:02

his message. I'm

2:05

Carvil Wallace and this is Finding

2:07

Fred, a podcast about Fred

2:09

Rogers from High Heart Media and Fatherly

2:12

in partnership with Transmitter Media.

2:21

Fred Rogers grew up during the Depression,

2:24

through World War Two and the Holocaust.

2:27

He had seen how horrible people could be to

2:29

one another, and his show spoke

2:31

to that. It launched just months

2:33

before Bobby Kennedy's assassination, and

2:36

Fred made a p s A in response to

2:38

it, and just a few weeks after

2:40

he officially retired, he made another

2:42

p s A right after September. We've

2:46

talked about how Fred didn't want to do the announcement

2:48

at all in the face of such enormous

2:50

violence and tragedy. He said

2:53

he couldn't see how it would do any good,

2:56

but he did it anyway. The

2:59

writer and educated or e viewing who

3:01

you remember from episode two was

3:03

watching There's this video that I've watched

3:05

a lot where he addresses

3:08

us as adults. You know. He's

3:10

saying, sometimes I see you all

3:12

on the streets. I run into you, those of you who

3:14

grew up in the neighborhood, you know, And

3:17

when I see you, I tell you, just like

3:19

I did when you were very small, that

3:22

I'm just so proud of you, you

3:24

know, and I like you just the way

3:26

you are. A lot of people

3:28

who heard Fred's p s A took

3:30

comfort in his message look

3:33

for the helpers, but Eve

3:35

heard something else. He

3:38

is talking to you as an individual, but

3:40

now as an adult, and that's his opportunity to

3:42

say something else or to like break this character.

3:45

And the thing he chooses to say is I

3:47

still see you. I'm still proud of you

3:50

and see the child

3:52

in you. And I think that when we talk

3:54

about forgiving people and not believing

3:57

in monsters, to me, that's what much

3:59

of that amount to is knowing that everybody

4:01

was somebody's child. You know, who

4:04

has been hurt, or who's been afraid, or

4:06

who's been trying their best to learn, or

4:08

who's been trying to be resilient in a difficult situation.

4:11

We've talked about what it means to do what

4:13

Fred did, listen carefully

4:15

and speak to the children inside people.

4:18

But what are we supposed to do when the child

4:21

is afraid and acting out, throwing

4:23

tantrums and destroying things. What

4:26

are we supposed to do when the child inside other people

4:29

makes them dangerous and destructive?

4:31

And when that's making us feel afraid

4:33

like we want to lash out and hurt

4:36

people who are hurting us. What

4:38

are we supposed to do then? And

4:41

who can show us how to act in a world

4:43

like this one here today?

4:47

My mom told me all

4:50

the time and continues to tell me that you

4:52

know, your responsibility is to be

4:54

a lightbringer, and your

4:56

job is to be a door opener, not

4:59

a gatekeeper. And all

5:01

of us have that grandma, that

5:03

neighbor, that uncle, that guy on

5:05

the corner store. You know, I remember

5:08

like riding the train with my mom

5:10

and we didn't have a car, and going

5:12

down to the train station and there was this South

5:14

Asian man who ran the convenience

5:17

store in the train station, and you

5:19

know, whenever we went to get on the train, he would give

5:21

me like a small caramel square,

5:24

you know, those like little cubes, just like a

5:26

no brand, no name, like caramel cube.

5:28

And those are the small moments as a kid that I

5:30

just remember feeling like, oh,

5:32

I'm somebody. Somebody told me that

5:34

I was special today. And I think that message

5:37

can come from a lot of messengers. And definitely

5:39

race and class and culture and religion

5:42

and geography and all those things can make

5:44

it harder here, but it usually

5:46

comes through loud and clear if the person really cares

5:48

about you. There

5:55

are helpers everywhere, people

5:57

who really see us and are kind to us,

6:01

and there are also people who show us

6:04

how to be helpers, who model it for us.

6:06

My paternal grandfather, incidentally, is

6:10

a white man who

6:12

is a lay Presbyterian

6:14

minister. He grew up on a

6:16

really small farm in the depression in

6:19

rural Illinois, and in

6:21

so many ways reminds me of Mr

6:23

Rogers. He has

6:26

a uniform like Mr Rogers. He

6:28

just wears like short sleeve button down

6:30

shirts in the same way that Mr Rodgers always

6:33

wears his card agaan. But my

6:35

grandfather has children

6:37

and grandchildren that have lived

6:41

just radically different lives than

6:43

him, you know, in terms of like race,

6:45

class, culture, interests.

6:48

Paul just like everything that you

6:50

can think of, and he

6:52

just is such a deeply, deeply

6:55

kind and caring person.

6:57

My uncle married a really

7:00

some woman who didn't grow

7:02

up in the church or anything like that, and I

7:04

remember she said when she met my grandfather, she was

7:06

like, Oh, this is the first real Christian I've ever met,

7:09

Like, this is the first person that actually they

7:11

say they're a Christian and it means that they like do

7:13

all this stuff that Jesus said to do right.

7:16

And he's always just made me feel

7:18

completely unconditionally loved and accepted.

7:21

But I also see him treat other people

7:23

that way in a way that makes it clear that

7:25

it's not just about me being his grandchild,

7:28

but what he believes about the world.

7:30

And going to visit my grandparents

7:33

and just meeting random people that

7:35

were staying in their house temporarily

7:37

because that's what they needed in the moment

7:40

also made a big impression on me as a kid

7:42

that I could come and meet somebody and

7:44

just be told like, oh, you know, they needed

7:46

to stay here for for this period of time

7:48

because of X y Z. And I

7:51

think that that idea of an open home

7:53

quite literal in in both the case

7:55

of my grandfather and the case of Mr Rogers,

7:57

right like, I think that's something also that's

8:00

incidental that we're in Mr Rogers's

8:02

house. He's welcoming us

8:04

into his house. Eve's

8:06

grandfather showed her one way to be open

8:09

and generous in a world that seems

8:11

hell bent on the opposite. I

8:14

don't I don't identify as a Christian um,

8:17

but I think that even though I don't identify

8:19

that way or as a particularly religious

8:22

person, I'm nevertheless

8:24

deeply moved and influenced

8:26

by a lot of Christian teachings.

8:29

And one of the Biblical lines that I think

8:31

about a lot is um the idea of the least

8:33

of these Jesus

8:35

says paraphrasing, but basically

8:37

like that which you do onto the least of these you do unto

8:40

me, And the idea that in every

8:42

situation, as a society,

8:44

in a family, in a community, your

8:47

job is to find the people that are the most vulnerable

8:49

and to make sure that they're protected. And when

8:51

you do that, as a general rule of thumb,

8:54

everything else will be good. Everything else

8:56

will follow. That's really important

8:58

to me, you know, after the

9:01

election in twenty sixteen. My

9:03

kids were thirteen and eleven,

9:07

and they said, they said

9:09

to me, what happened? What

9:11

happened, like, explained to me what that was?

9:14

What is happening? And the

9:16

only explanation that I could come up with was

9:18

like, well, look, there are some people who

9:20

believe that it is it is your responsibility

9:23

to care for others and that that is

9:25

and that is a primary thing, and that you must do that.

9:27

And then there are some people who think that that

9:29

is, that it's your responsibility to care for your

9:31

own and everyone else just needs to

9:33

figure out for themselves. And

9:36

that is ultimately what appears

9:39

to have happened last night is that some people who

9:41

believe that second thing appeared to have gained more power.

9:44

You know, I was like your mother and I we know

9:46

what we believe. We believe that

9:48

we must care for others, like that is what we fundamentally

9:51

believe. We're never not going to believe that that is

9:53

just who we are, and you're

9:55

going to have to figure out who you are in the world.

9:58

You know. I've done a

10:00

fair amount of teaching in in prisons,

10:03

and the prison that I teach in is

10:05

a maximum security prison where people

10:07

are there for very long term or

10:09

life sentences. And one

10:12

of the rules that we have is that we don't we don't

10:14

ask people like what they did or why

10:16

they're there. I know just from history

10:19

that like if

10:21

not of the people that I'm dealing

10:23

with in that space are there

10:26

because of the drug war, are there

10:28

because of poverty, are there because of

10:30

unresolved trauma in their own lives. And

10:32

the idea that like one out of those one hundred

10:34

might just actually be a psychopath

10:37

doesn't make it worth it for me to

10:39

focus on that to

10:42

me remote possibility, when

10:44

I could be focusing on like the human conversation

10:47

that we're going to have. And so

10:49

to me, that's that's the idea of

10:52

of grace is just like assuming,

10:55

even if you can't quite work your way up to loving people,

10:58

which is like the Jesus standard, it's okay

11:00

for us to not all be Jesus at

11:02

least understanding that people are human

11:05

beings and not not monsters. You've

11:10

heard me ask a lot of people how I

11:12

like you. Just the way you are applies

11:14

to those who hurt us, who

11:17

hurt others, who are hurting whole

11:19

groups of people and tearing apart

11:21

families and communities and institutions

11:24

that do good in the world. Would

11:26

Fred Rogers like them just

11:29

the way they are? Eaves

11:31

says, that's the wrong question.

11:35

We spent a lot of time asking the question

11:37

like what about the bad people, like are we adequately

11:39

punishing the bad people, which usually

11:41

is a distraction from making sure that the person

11:43

who's actually been hurt is okay.

11:46

And we've set up a

11:48

society where we tend to be really

11:50

obsessed with punishing people

11:53

rather than actually caring for the people that

11:55

have been harmed. And that is a disregard

11:58

that shows a disregard for the idea of care for

12:00

the least of these. And if

12:02

you believe that most of those bad things themselves

12:05

come from un dealt with harm,

12:08

than the best thing that we can do is deal

12:11

with the harm.

12:14

In Mark seven, Jesus

12:16

says the poor you will always

12:19

have with you, and you can help them

12:21

whenever you want, but you will

12:23

not always have me. The

12:26

idea is that one day Jesus would

12:28

leave his followers. Like all

12:31

things, he was saying, his presence is

12:33

impermanent. The only permanent

12:36

thing is that people will still

12:38

need help, and we must continue

12:40

to help those who need it. Notice

12:43

he doesn't say I'm gonna be gone, so I'm gonna need

12:45

you to keep on crushing all the bad guys and

12:47

making sure they learn their lessons.

12:50

Like Eves said, his focus is

12:52

not unfixing the bad ones, but

12:54

on helping the needy ones. But

13:00

that's hard. Sometimes. Sometimes

13:04

I feel like I have to keep an eye

13:06

on what I'm afraid of or what can hurt

13:08

me. I have to make sure it's locked

13:10

away or properly defended against.

13:13

The things I'm afraid of are so loud

13:16

and bright and distracting

13:19

that it's hard to turn my attention away

13:21

from them, even for a moment, hard to give

13:23

up on the idea that my job is to

13:25

make sure the bad people suffer. It's

13:28

hard to do the quieter and

13:30

slower and maybe more vulnerable

13:33

work of tending to the

13:35

people who have been wounded. I

13:39

often feel too scared and angry

13:42

and hurt to do that. I

13:45

feel like I have too many people to

13:47

protect. And

13:49

maybe that's why Fred Rogers was so focused

13:52

on finding a way to talk about

13:54

our feelings, Because

13:56

maybe I can't really help people until

13:58

I spend a lot of time sitting

14:01

with my own hurt more

14:05

in a minute.

14:29

One of the things that Fred Todd is that in

14:32

a child, every behavior

14:35

is a way the child communicates

14:38

an underlying need. If

14:41

we were to apply that not just to children,

14:44

but to grown ups, we may

14:46

find a behavior objectionable,

14:48

or we may find something that someone

14:51

says objectionable. We may find another

14:53

person's opinion objectionable.

14:56

But if we look deeper and

14:59

see what is the human

15:01

need behind that,

15:03

it doesn't mean we have to agree with their opinions

15:05

and actions and words, but

15:07

it does mean that we should

15:10

and can have empathy

15:12

and have a connection with the underlying

15:15

human need. This

15:17

is John Leah Lee. He is a

15:19

senior lecturer in Early childhood Education

15:21

at Harvard. He spent much of his professional

15:24

career studying Fred's work. He

15:26

was co director of the Fred Rogers Center at Saint

15:28

Vincent's College, and one of the courses he

15:30

teaches at Harvard is about simple

15:33

Interactions, a way of working

15:35

with kids that's based in part on

15:37

the work of Fred Rogers. Jen

15:39

Lay also knows something about the dark

15:41

side of human behavior. He

15:43

was born in Shanghai at the tail end of the Chinese

15:46

Cultural Revolution in the late sixties

15:48

and early seventies, the Chinese states

15:51

sent millions of people who they decided

15:53

were bad neighbors in their eyes

15:55

into forced labor and exile,

15:57

and murdered countless more. Unlay's

16:00

parents were sent to do manual work

16:02

and rule China. He was often separated

16:05

from one or both of them.

16:07

This was not a culture of I

16:10

like you just the way you are. Gen

16:13

Lay moved to America at sixteen and

16:15

discovered Mr. Rogers neighborhood in college

16:17

where he was studying child development. Fred's

16:20

message of love and acceptance came

16:22

as a revelation and became

16:24

gen Lay's model for how to communicate with

16:26

both children and adults. He

16:30

told me that Fred became a personal role

16:32

model too, and before we get into

16:34

it, you should probably take a deep breath and relax,

16:37

because generally has a very thoughtful

16:39

Fred rogers like demeanor. I

16:42

initially came to make available educational

16:45

opportunities for all children,

16:48

but over time I

16:51

think it becomes more

16:54

and more about how we

16:56

can find people all

16:58

around the world who were doing

17:01

that, or the kind of people that Fred would

17:03

call heroes, um their

17:06

ordinary heroes. I came

17:08

into the field very much want

17:10

to be a helper, and

17:13

twenty years later I realized that

17:16

perhaps the best thing I could do is

17:18

to find these helpers that are already

17:21

out there and do

17:23

my best to support them.

17:27

He exactly helping the helpers.

17:30

I think the most important

17:34

lesson that I took from Fred was

17:37

this idea that if

17:40

you looked carefully

17:42

around you, no matter where

17:45

you are, if you looked carefully,

17:48

you will find that there are

17:50

people that are helping

17:53

one another. The kindness

17:55

and trust and respect

17:58

that are example THI by

18:01

Fred's work is

18:04

visible in real human

18:06

communities. Not everyone

18:09

talks just like Mr

18:11

Rogers or anything, but the way

18:13

they listen to children, the

18:15

way they are able to pay attention

18:19

to not just what the child acts

18:22

out on the surface, but what

18:25

do these behaviors

18:28

tell us about the inner

18:30

needs of the child or the young

18:32

person. You

18:35

know. I want to ask you a little bit about today's

18:38

context, um, because

18:42

I when I look around, I see

18:44

a lot of fear and

18:47

anger and frustration,

18:50

and and a

18:52

feeling that things are rapidly getting

18:54

worse in a in a myriad

18:56

of ways, and people feeling helpless and

18:58

hopeless. I want under if

19:00

you can imagine what kind of show he would

19:03

make today. Do

19:05

you think he would continue along the same path or would

19:07

he find that he would have to do something

19:09

different. That's

19:13

such a good question,

19:15

and I can't begin

19:18

to imagine that

19:21

I know what he would do. But

19:26

I think the underlying

19:28

topic that Fred

19:30

was so interested in perhaps

19:32

centers around this idea

19:35

of empathy. Fred's

19:38

show is about confronting

19:41

struggles and conflicts rather

19:43

than evading them. People

19:46

of different ideas, different

19:48

values, trying to work

19:50

out their differences and still

19:53

operate on an assumption of trust

19:56

and respect for one another. And

19:58

I think fred work very

20:01

strongly conveyed that a

20:04

community is a place

20:06

where not everyone has

20:08

to look the same, not everyone

20:10

even have to have the same interests or choose

20:12

to live the same way. Um like community

20:15

is simply a place where very

20:18

diverse people get to live

20:20

together, to listen to one another and

20:23

work through the differences that they have.

20:34

I think in a fearful

20:37

world, we have

20:40

a tendency to accentuate

20:44

every aspect that

20:47

is different between person one

20:49

and person two. And

20:53

as much as Fred wanted to convey

20:56

the message that all of us are different

20:59

and unique and special, Fred's

21:01

underlying message, though, is

21:04

we are much more the same than

21:07

we're different, and

21:09

that paradoxically,

21:11

by pointing out the

21:14

uniqueness of each individual,

21:17

we actually come to understand our

21:19

common humanity. And

21:22

that to me is perhaps

21:25

the spiritual root

21:27

of empathy.

21:30

To be able to see

21:33

the full humanity

21:35

of the person that we might fear.

21:39

Mm hm, you know that is

21:42

such a weighty and heavy

21:44

concept in this time. Um.

21:50

We live in a world in which there are systemic

21:53

abuses of people, and

21:55

people feel the need to defend themselves, not just

21:58

against individuals, against

22:00

systems, and and

22:03

I think a lot of times in those cases, people

22:05

feel like there's there's

22:07

a there's a threat to their survival

22:10

that comes with

22:12

that empathy that

22:15

in order to protect themselves

22:17

and their families and who they love, they

22:20

can't allow themselves that empathy.

22:22

You know, if you are

22:26

a targeted group in a genocide, is

22:30

their use for you in finding empathy

22:33

for the person on the other side of the friends. Fred

22:36

often talked about the

22:38

lesson the most important lesson

22:42

that he took from

22:45

he's theology professor in Pittsburgh

22:49

Theological Seminary, which he

22:51

went to ask this professor one time what

22:53

this particularly him means because they him

22:56

said something about, you know, the

22:59

one thing, the one small thing that

23:02

made evil fall. And so he went

23:04

to ask the professor, you know what is

23:06

this one small thing? And

23:09

the answer was, the one

23:11

thing that evil cannot stand

23:14

is forgiveness. And

23:19

I think as I read

23:21

about the error in which

23:25

my parents and grandparents

23:27

lived through, I think of a story.

23:32

There was an older gentleman that was very close

23:34

to my family. He was from

23:37

West Virginia and became a minister, and

23:40

he and his wife and

23:43

son were missionaries

23:46

in China. And after the

23:48

World War two broke out, they

23:50

were taken by the Japanese and put inside

23:53

a fairly bruto concentration

23:56

camp. And

23:58

one of the command ds of

24:01

the camp we're

24:03

humane to the American prisoners,

24:06

and the minister, his name

24:08

is Joe. Years

24:11

later, he sat down

24:15

in a Japanese house across

24:17

the table from the commander

24:19

of the concentration camp, and

24:21

the two of them shared the tea, a

24:24

cup of tea, and and I just

24:27

think of these things. They're

24:29

almost illogical, but

24:32

they are a

24:34

reflection of

24:38

the fundamental trust that

24:40

human beings, as much as they're capable

24:42

of evil and hatred,

24:45

and and as much as all of us have our

24:47

fears and defensiveness

24:49

that in the end, I think when

24:53

Fred tells us that we are special, he

24:55

meant that there's something deep

24:58

down inside each of us, not just

25:00

some of us, but each of us,

25:03

without which humanity cannot survive.

25:07

In his public service announcements

25:09

following September, he

25:13

invoked, I think the Jewish

25:15

saying that essentially means we

25:18

are called to be repairers

25:21

of creation, and

25:26

we can understand that in more broadly

25:28

outside the religious context,

25:31

is somehow that each of us

25:33

are called to

25:35

be repairers of creation?

25:39

And what does repairing mean?

25:50

Each of us is called to be a

25:52

repairer of creation? But

25:56

how do we do that? I

25:58

think for everyone, though the question

26:01

is the same, the answer can be

26:03

different. Not all

26:05

of us can sit down to tea with someone who

26:08

represents the violent forces of the state.

26:10

The man from West Virginia that John Lay talked

26:13

about could, but many of us

26:15

cannot and maybe should not.

26:18

And there's good reason for that. If

26:20

someone breaks into your home and harms

26:22

your family or loved ones in some violent

26:25

way, and then I decide to sit down

26:27

with them the next day for a pleasant tea

26:29

under the guise of forgiveness and radical

26:32

empathy. That may be a dramatic,

26:34

heroic act for me, but it might

26:36

be incredibly disrespectful and harmful

26:39

to you. We're told

26:41

all the time that the ultimate act

26:43

of love is to forgive the people who have

26:46

hurt you, and that anything less is

26:48

a shortcoming, maybe an understandable

26:51

one, but a shortcoming nonetheless

26:54

something to get over. But

26:57

who benefits most from

26:59

the quick and incessant march towards

27:01

forgiveness? Isn't it often

27:04

those who commit the heinous act to

27:06

begin with? Don't they

27:08

want, deeply want for

27:10

their victims to hug them and declare

27:12

that it's all good. Wouldn't

27:15

you? Have

27:18

you ever harmed someone? Have

27:21

you ever participated in or

27:24

benefited from someone's harm?

27:27

Wouldn't you want them to forgive you?

27:31

The idea of forgiving one's enemies

27:33

loving one's enemies is a beautiful one, and

27:35

maybe even an ideal one, But it's

27:37

also a complicated one. Sometimes

27:40

an act of love and caring toward an

27:42

oppressor is an act of harm

27:45

toward the oppressed, or toward ourselves.

27:48

TV writer Megan Amram, a brilliant

27:50

person in her own right, put this idea

27:52

very succinctly on Twitter quote

27:55

you can't be nice to everyone because

27:57

being nice to certain people is inherently

28:00

cruel to others. The

28:04

viewing is right that after a point, it's not

28:06

helpful to focus on what to do about

28:08

the bad people. That's why

28:10

I'm grateful that there are other

28:12

ways to be repairers of creation.

28:15

Eve teaches in an incarceration facility.

28:18

I'm using my own holiday party in my tiny

28:20

little apartment to raise money for victims

28:23

of domestic violence, people who aren't able

28:25

to celebrate with friends and family as

28:27

maybe we are. There

28:30

are acts of kindness towards children. The

28:32

woman who raised me used to go to the library to read

28:34

stories to foster kids. She also

28:37

took in stray animals, and even once

28:39

she took in a stray kid named

28:42

Carvel. But

28:45

more than that, there

28:47

is the love and kindness and acceptance

28:50

that we show towards those who are struggling

28:52

and hurting in our families,

28:55

in our communities. There's

28:57

the willingness to listen, to hear,

29:00

and perhaps most importantly, to

29:02

grow and change in response

29:04

to the pain of others. There

29:07

is looking, really looking

29:09

for what is special? What

29:12

is childlike? Maybe even what

29:15

is God like and each and every

29:17

person that we encounter. That

29:21

is what Fred was showing us with the Neighborhood.

29:24

He was showing us what it feels like to be

29:26

treated as special and important

29:28

and necessary. He was showing each

29:31

of us has something inside of us

29:33

that humanity needs, and for

29:35

that reason alone, we are

29:37

valuable. And our task is not only

29:40

to help see and grow that valuable

29:42

thing in each other, it is to see

29:44

and grow it within ourselves.

29:48

And even though the world isn't what it was when Fred

29:50

created his TV neighborhood in even

29:53

if our lives seem more complicated

29:56

and difficult, there are people all

29:58

around us who are actively helping to make

30:00

things better. There are people alive

30:03

right now who were showing us how

30:05

to make it better too. A

30:07

couple of weeks ago, we asked you to send

30:10

in stories of people who have shown you how

30:12

to be a helper. Here's one message

30:14

we received from a listener named Juan

30:18

Helloa Um here in Hawaii,

30:21

actually on my way to my school

30:23

where I'm a teacher. I've been listening

30:25

to your podcast and it's just inspired

30:27

me. And every time I listened to it, I think

30:29

about one person who When I was growing up

30:31

back in New York in a small suburb,

30:34

white neighborhood, I was kind of an outcast

30:36

because my family was a Hispanic family and

30:40

we never had too many friends besides our family.

30:43

But there was a lady down the block named

30:45

Me and her and

30:47

her son Jesse, they would

30:49

always always just be there for us. My

30:51

father was working two jobs, my mother never drove,

30:54

so Genies is the first that really took me out of the community

30:56

and to be on the neighborhood. She was the first

30:58

person to teach me to the old should which

31:01

now living in Hawaii means so much to

31:03

me. She took me to museums, she

31:05

let me write books at her house, and

31:08

these kind of moments of joy are things that

31:10

I really steak with me still, and even

31:12

though like I'm not the best teacher by any means,

31:15

I think that that's something that's fundamentally what

31:17

I try and do daily. So

31:20

I just want to give a big shout out Denise

31:23

and so the whole family, Jesse, Charlie,

31:26

Brianna, they were all there for me. But

31:28

I definitely remember to me just pining as

31:30

a as a rock in my life and

31:32

just show me what it's like to be a good neighbor, literally

31:35

a good neighbor right down the block. I

31:38

hope you have a good one, and the more

31:43

of that next week and our final episode

31:46

of Finding Friend. Finding

31:56

Fred is produced by Transmitter Media. Our

31:59

team is Daniel Donald, Jordan Bailey, and

32:01

Maddie Foley. Our editor is Sarah

32:03

Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter

32:05

Media is Greta Cohne. Executive

32:07

producers at Fatherly are Simon Isaacs

32:10

and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team and

32:12

I Heart Media. Our show is mixed by

32:14

Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot Sessions

32:16

and Alison Layton Brown. If

32:18

you like what you're hearing, rate the show, review

32:21

the show, and tell a friend I'm

32:23

Carvel Wallace. Thank you for listening.