0:00

Hi, Connor here, creator of The

0:02

Greatest Matter. If you like this show,

0:04

here's another one you might like. Greetings, Adventurers.

0:06

Today we're excited to introduce you

0:08

to a new story, Dark Dice, a

0:10

horror podcast that blurs the line

0:12

between actual play and audio drama, where

0:14

the story is determined by the

0:16

role of the dice. Six

0:19

Adventurers embark on a journey into the ruinous

0:21

domain of the Nameless God. They will never be

0:23

the same again. One of the players is

0:25

now what they seem after a doppelganger, a creature

0:27

that can assume the form and voice of

0:29

whatever it kills, infiltrates the team. As the players

0:31

are picked off and replaced one at a

0:33

time, can they figure out who the monster before

0:36

it's too late. Can you? Here's a

0:38

quick example of what our show sounds

0:40

like. The, uh, shambler with the jar

0:42

of liquid inside of him. Soren Arkwright

0:44

let loose an arrow that cracked the

0:46

glass, passing through the spine of the

0:48

creature. The shamblers still managed to maintain

0:50

its forward momentum, but stumbled as it

0:53

eagerly tried to bite and swipe at

0:55

Soren landing near his feet. As Jeff

0:57

Goldblum has now joined our cast, Dark

0:59

Dice is available however you listen podcasts.

1:03

This episode is brought to you

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you at aws .com/learn more. Hi,

1:26

it's Connor here from Head Stuff.

1:28

If you're a fireside fan, I wanted

1:30

to introduce you to another show

1:32

you might like, The Greatest Matter.

1:34

It's a Gothic crime story set

1:36

in Victorian Dublin about a criminologist who

1:39

arrives in the city to give

1:41

a talk, but then gets caught

1:43

up in a murder investigation with

1:45

dangerous occult connections. So if you're an

1:47

audiodrama fan, a lover of history

1:49

or mystery, a reader of classic

1:51

fictions from Arthur Conan Doyle to

1:53

Bram Stoker to the ghost stories of

1:55

Emma .R. James or Sheridan Leffenu, then

1:58

this is for you. As

2:00

a fan of fireside, I

2:02

feel like you're probably a

2:04

lot of those things. The

2:06

full series is out now

2:08

on Head Stuff podcasts and

2:10

you can listen to episode

2:12

one in full right now.

2:14

Enjoy the show. Kate. Kate,

2:16

can you still hear us?

2:18

Shh. I need to concentrate.

2:20

Just, just let it happen.

2:22

Franswa, we can't rush this.

2:24

It's not like the last

2:26

one. Ty. I know. I

2:28

know. I

2:32

feel it. It's happening.

2:34

He wasn't sure about

2:37

this. Yes, it will

2:39

be fine. Just make

2:42

sure the door is

2:44

for me locked. Yes,

2:47

it's not. Just make

2:49

sure the door is

2:52

for me locked. Yes,

2:54

it's locked. I checked

2:57

it. I checked it.

2:59

Okay. Oh my God.

3:02

He's so much larger

3:04

than I would have

3:07

thought. Oh, fascinating. Look

3:09

at the cranial structure.

3:12

Surely this is Hackel's

3:14

pithicantropus. Is this what

3:17

we... Who is he?

3:19

No, let's all stay

3:22

nice and calm. Who

3:24

we are! Yes, I

3:27

would expect so. He's

3:29

far higher up the

3:32

evolutionary chain, remember? Let's

3:34

just see what he

3:37

does. Look, Kate is

3:39

out of the trance.

3:42

She's back with us.

3:44

He doesn't seem to

3:47

be registering that she

3:49

is there though. Look,

3:52

he's totally fixated on

3:54

us. Yes. Let's try

3:57

to stay still. Don't

4:00

approach him. Let

4:02

him take everything

4:04

in and then we

4:06

can. Let

4:11

him

4:14

take

4:17

everything

4:20

in and

4:24

The door! Albert! He's escaping!

4:27

I can't! Oh

4:29

god! Fortua, are you all right? Oh

4:31

Oh my God, bleeding. bleeding. Yes, I'm...

4:34

He really took a really

4:36

took a swipe with

4:38

me. not hurt badly. you

4:40

sure? sure? thank God. Albert,

4:42

did he get out? out? Where's

4:45

the... Whatever was I'm

4:47

afraid he went

4:49

straight out of the

4:51

front door. He's of

4:53

the front door. He's... He's gone. He'll

4:55

dematerialize, has to to. Doesn't

4:57

is too much

4:59

Albert? too much Albert. Kate,

5:01

you still connected to him? What's

5:04

going on? to him? I

5:06

don't think. on? No, I I

5:08

don't know. think... I don't

5:10

know. What have I done? I done?

5:12

What done, we done,

5:14

Kate? This is on all

5:16

of us. The

5:47

matter. Matter by Connor

5:50

Reed. A Criminologist A Dublin.

5:54

in that everything, Is that

5:56

everything, Sean? Yeah.

5:58

it it. God, it's a

6:01

cold one. And you did the

6:03

padlock and the bolt on the

6:05

gate there, like Mr. Stevens asked.

6:07

Yeah, sure, I just... And the

6:09

cash box from the office, because

6:11

didn't Mr. Stephen... On, yeah, it's

6:13

done. Mr. Stevens trusted me to

6:15

do the job. That's why he

6:17

gave me the promotion. That's it.

6:20

Locked up. No elephants strolling around

6:22

Phoenix Park tonight. All right, all

6:24

right, I'm only asking, because I

6:26

know the new jobs important to

6:28

you. No. It's getting dark. Let

6:30

me walk you to the Omni

6:32

Bus. Thanks, Sean. You're very good.

6:34

Well, it's lovely in the park

6:37

with the snow, isn't it? So

6:39

quiet. That was some snowfall yesterday,

6:41

wasn't it? And it was nowhere.

6:43

I'd say to be a bit

6:45

warmer tomorrow, though. The zoo is

6:47

miserable in that sort of cold.

6:49

Sure, the penguins love it. Well,

6:51

that's true. So, any plans for

6:53

tomorrow. You're always one for filling

6:56

up your Sundays with all sorts

6:58

sorts of activities with all sorts

7:00

of activities. I don't know where

7:02

you get the energy. Did I

7:04

not tell you? Simon's bringing me

7:06

to see the cinemat graph over

7:08

in the star. Have you ever

7:10

been? Ah, no, that wouldn't really

7:13

be my thing now. Prefer a

7:15

point in the pub than looking

7:17

at moving pictures. As Sean, you're

7:19

useless. Simon went before and he

7:21

said it's like you're really there.

7:23

It's similar to the Kinetoscope, but

7:25

everyone can watch together. Simon saw

7:27

a train pulling into a station

7:30

and it wasn't just the people

7:32

moving. It was everything. The smoke

7:34

and the steam from the train,

7:36

the wind blowing. It sounds wonderful.

7:38

Sure, I can see a train

7:40

down at the King's Bridge Station

7:42

and not pay a shilling for

7:44

the pleasure. A shawl. Anyway, I'm

7:46

excited. We've got great seats and

7:49

we're going to... Going to... Sorry,

7:51

I'm just... Do you see that?

7:53

What? There? In the bushes up

7:55

ahead. There. Oh... Is it a...

7:57

Buse of... No, but it... No,

7:59

it... Look, it's

8:01

a a leg! Someone's

8:03

passed out in the bushes the Come on!

8:06

there. Come Let me have a look.

8:08

I Could be anyone in there. But

8:10

they might need our help. a Come on.

8:12

be anyone in there.

8:14

But they might need

8:16

our help. Come on. All

8:19

rice. Excuse me sir,

8:21

are you alright? Sir, are

8:23

you hear me? right? Can

8:25

Hang on, me? Hang on, me

8:27

you. Let me. Just... Oh,

8:31

Jesus! Oh, God. God! the hell the hell

8:33

happened? There's blood everywhere! Ah,

8:35

no, I look away! This isn't

8:37

something for a woman to see!

8:40

Is he a woman to see. Is he... Is

8:42

he dead, dead. he's dead. looks like

8:44

he's like he's don't know, don't know,

8:46

or attacked attacked or... Look, I I

8:48

don't know. to We need

8:50

to call the police. at Look

8:52

at these clothes. Or what's left

8:54

of them? He's... He's some or

8:57

something. Let's get something. Let's Mr. Stevens. There's

8:59

a dead man a hundred

9:01

yards from the entrance to

9:03

the entrance to The place will

9:05

be packed the place Stevens would

9:07

want to know first Stevens would want

9:09

to I suppose you're right.

9:11

I suppose you're all those and

9:13

visiting those society fellas visiting you

9:16

run to the lodge and get

9:18

him. I'll stay here with this poor

9:20

soul, stay here with you know. soul. God of mercy,

9:22

be careful! careful. The

9:29

renowned professor Chasere Lombroso, what an absolute pleasure

9:31

to meet you at last. at last.

9:33

too kind, Dr. Rhine. The pleasure The pleasure is

9:35

all mine. the Thank you for the

9:37

invitation. time It's my first time in

9:39

this Well, I city. if Well, I don't

9:41

know if Dublin can quite compete

9:43

with the wonders of Italy, but but

9:45

called it my home for many years

9:47

now, and it's a fine place

9:49

to live. place to I do hope you'll

9:51

enjoy your stay. This is a

9:54

lovely hotel. lovely hotel. Waiter, a glass

9:56

of red wine wine the the professor. You

9:58

had a had a pleasant trip Jerome. I

10:00

hope the snow didn't affect your travels.

10:02

No, it was fine in the end.

10:04

And very atmospheric arriving in the city

10:07

covered in snow. I believe it's not

10:09

too common here. No, not at all.

10:11

And you're right, it does give the

10:14

city a certain atmosphere all right. Did

10:16

you come via Paris? Yes, Paris and

10:18

then London. I met several of our

10:21

esteemed colleagues at the Sorbonne. Professor DuPont

10:23

sends his warmest regards. He's a fine

10:25

researcher. I was fascinated by his article

10:28

and degeneracy in The Lancet recently. And

10:30

of course, I've been following your extensive

10:32

work on criminal man. Alwamo, Dylan Quenay.

10:35

Apologies for the pronunciation. I'm afraid my

10:37

Italian is not up to much. We

10:39

must talk more about translations. I've got

10:41

contacts in New York who I'm sure

10:44

would be interested. Well, I would be

10:46

much obliged. Thank you. It's wonderful to

10:48

see so many doctors and scientists taking

10:51

such an interest in the wider field

10:53

of... Criminology. And why wouldn't we? We're

10:55

all on the front lines of treating

10:58

the insane, the weak-minded, the criminal. Your

11:00

work is pioneering. Now, let me introduce

11:02

you to a few of my colleagues

11:05

over here. We have a little time

11:07

before we need to get you over

11:09

to the rotunda for your speech. A

11:12

wonderful venue, do you know it? I'll

11:14

confess I don't. But Dr. Pjorfor mentioned

11:16

in his letter that he'd seen Charles

11:18

Dickens' farewell readings there as a young

11:21

boy. and it had left quite the

11:23

impression. Oh yes, of course, that would

11:25

have been 68, 69 maybe. One of

11:28

many great speakers at the rotondo over

11:30

the decades. Oh, and there is Dr.

11:32

Perfoy there. You'll have to meet him

11:35

in person. Excellent. I would be delighted

11:37

to. We've been in correspondence regarding anthropometric

11:39

measurements, and he was most generous with

11:42

his time. Of course. After you. Come

11:51

on Margaret, we're going to be late. Oh, we're fine.

11:53

The talk doesn't start for another half an hour. But

11:55

at your pace, it'll take that long. Here, I'm not

11:57

the one who chose... to to buy

11:59

roasted nuts from Jim at

12:01

his stall. I was hungry. I

12:03

was And besides, you know

12:05

I can't resist Jim's you know, I

12:07

can't don't. Jim's nuts. at his

12:09

stall is so delicious, and store

12:11

have you stopped walking? have you

12:13

Come on. Come on. I'm I'm

12:15

coming. trying I'm trying not to kill

12:17

myself slipping on all this ice. all

12:19

this ice. Anyway, we'll at worst we'll miss

12:22

some long, ramblin' introduction to this fellow.

12:24

This This Lombrosso Fellow is a famous

12:26

psychiatrist professor of the criminal criminal mind. you this

12:28

told you this was important to me.

12:30

sounds talk sounds fascinating, it's it's great

12:32

research for my novel. Yes, but but from

12:34

what you've told me about it,

12:37

you don't even agree with the man.

12:39

with the no, well everything, but I've only

12:41

read a small bit of his

12:43

work. of his work. The man is a renowned

12:45

thinker across Europe. He He must be

12:47

doing something right. right. Right. And besides,

12:49

just because I don't agree with him,

12:52

it doesn't mean I won't get

12:54

some good ideas for my novel, or

12:56

he won't be a good speaker. get

12:58

some good fine, my novel, or he won't be a

13:00

eels over there. Fine. Fine. I'll just

13:02

go - Are you serious? some

13:05

we don't have

13:07

time! eels over there. Maybe I'll just

13:09

go. Are you serious? go. we

13:11

I'm time. Come on. Over

13:23

here! On ya! He's just over

13:25

here, Mr. just over here, Mr. Stevens.

13:28

going on, Sean? I don't going on, just I

13:30

don't know, here. We just found call the

13:32

We need to call the authorities. of... We

13:34

Get this sorted. We don't need

13:36

a dead man, whoever he is, at

13:38

the entrance to Dublin Zoo. Zoo. Not

13:40

Not this weekend of times. I can send

13:42

a a from the officer. from the officer.

13:44

I can get the... I can get the...

13:46

Wait, sir. I've been looking at the

13:48

body here body here and... well... I I don't

13:50

know, it's just... Just what... Just what? Well, it's

13:52

it's just, I'm no I'm no I've

13:55

but I've been looking at

13:57

all these scratches, the

13:59

The cuts, the... torn clothes. It

14:01

kind of looks like he's

14:03

been attacked. What are you

14:05

getting at, John? He's torn

14:07

to pieces, sir. Look, it

14:09

looks like he's been attacked

14:11

by an animal. Maybe a

14:14

tiger or something. Poor man.

14:16

Oh, Jesus, no. You could

14:18

be raised. But we're outside

14:20

the zoo gates. You locked

14:22

up, Sean. You checked with

14:24

the other zoo keepers. You

14:26

did the final rounds. You

14:28

did do the... Yes, sir,

14:30

I checked everything. The tigers

14:33

are all in their cages.

14:35

I'm positive. Are you? Jesus

14:37

Christ, Sean, if we've a

14:39

man mauled by a tiger,

14:41

a tiger whose whereabouts we

14:43

have no idea. But sir,

14:45

you know where, tigers as

14:47

well as I do, they

14:50

wouldn't do this. Check. What?

14:52

Check the cages. Make sure

14:54

all the tigers are there.

14:56

And any of the other

14:58

dangerous animals, on you. Go

15:00

with them. I'll go around

15:02

from this site. Now. Yes,

15:04

sir. Yes, sir. Oh, no.

15:06

This can't be happening. My

15:09

name is Dr. Douglas Ryan,

15:11

and it is with the

15:13

utmost pleasure that I introduce

15:15

our esteemed speaker Professor Cesare

15:17

Lombroso, doctor, linguist, man of

15:19

letters, professor of forensic medicine,

15:21

and most recently professor of

15:23

psychiatry at the University of

15:25

Toronto in Italy. A pioneer

15:28

in the field of criminology

15:30

and the author of a

15:32

hugely important study of criminal

15:34

man. Now, as some of

15:36

you may be aware, Professor

15:38

Lombroso will address the Royal

15:40

Zoological Society tomorrow at a

15:42

gathering in Dublin Zoo. This

15:45

evening, however, it is his

15:47

wish to speak to a

15:49

more general public about his

15:51

vital work on the criminal

15:53

man. We the

15:55

born criminal. born

15:57

How do we

15:59

check his

16:01

pervasiveness in our

16:04

society? in can

16:06

we do to reduce crime in a

16:08

city like Dublin? crime A problem,

16:10

I am confident you will

16:12

agree in desperate need of a

16:14

solution. will agree in desperate

16:16

you. of a

16:18

solution. Professor Lombroso. is

16:20

quite the the at Margaret, isn't

16:22

it? I know. isn't It's so

16:24

hot in here. in here. I'm passing

16:26

in this outfit. outfit. Dr.

16:28

Ryan, ladies and gentlemen.

16:31

Thank you. thank you. Ladies and

16:34

gentlemen, everyone

16:36

in this room has first-hand

16:39

in this room of crime

16:41

experience of crime. You've

16:44

had something You've had

16:46

something stolen, perhaps. been a or

16:48

been a victim of fraud

16:50

or blackmail, assault or abuse.

16:54

someone you you know a a

16:56

lawyer or a a police officer. works

16:58

in a prison or or

17:00

been to prison themselves. prison

17:03

Crime is, alas, part of

17:05

our lives. and we we

17:07

all have strong opinions on

17:09

the matter. matter, on how on how

17:12

to reduce it, it, how how to police

17:14

it. and how how to deal with

17:16

criminals. And And yet, all

17:19

these these opinions is

17:21

shockingly little science. science. Crime

17:23

is all around us, yet

17:25

yet is so so rarely studied

17:27

in any systematic fashion.

17:29

Where are the statistics, the

17:31

facts, the experimental data?

17:34

data? above all, all, is

17:37

the focus on the

17:39

criminal himself. himself? Judges are wont

17:41

to completely ignore the criminal

17:43

and focus on the crime. on

17:45

the And yet, And we know

17:47

that personal and social

17:50

circumstances dictate crime. Not

17:52

only this, but we

17:54

know there are traits

17:56

and anomalies that mark

17:58

out the the criminal. Criminals, not

18:00

just crimes, must be closely

18:02

studied. My work in recent

18:04

years has carefully categorized the

18:07

cultural, physical, and psychological traits

18:09

of the criminal in order

18:11

to bring a much clearer

18:13

picture to this area. To

18:15

the field of what I

18:17

believe is best termed criminology.

18:19

This is what I wish

18:21

to address in my talk

18:23

here today, ladies and gentlemen.

18:25

Who is the criminal man?

18:27

and to a lesser degree

18:29

the criminal woman. What does

18:31

he look like? How does

18:33

he act? And how should

18:35

he be treated? Not just

18:37

in terms of incarceration, but

18:40

also... He's not a bad

18:42

speaker. See, I told you

18:44

it would be an interesting

18:46

talk. How much of his

18:48

work have you read anyway?

18:50

There's not much in English

18:52

yet, but I read a

18:54

French translation of some of

18:56

it, and... Ladies, do you

18:58

mind? Sorry, I terribly sorry.

19:00

We'll discuss some of the

19:02

advantages of your own. Irish

19:04

system of incarceration. The system

19:06

commendably draws on criminal psychology

19:08

to allow prisoners move through

19:10

a series of stages and

19:13

rewards. Starting from a period

19:15

of isolation with nothing but

19:17

ragged clothes, a meagre, vegetarian

19:19

diet, and mundane tasks. Don't

19:21

even start. This is science,

19:23

Francis. Vegetarianism is a criminal

19:25

book. I told you I

19:27

knew you'd pick up on

19:29

that. It's not me saying

19:31

this. This is the renowned

19:33

professor of criminology. Yes, well,

19:35

as I've said before, vegetarianism

19:37

is a bold statement. Ladies,

19:39

please, I am trying to

19:41

listen to the professor. Oh

19:43

yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. Of

19:45

course, pardon me. Criminals, especially

19:48

foragers, have larger volume heads

19:50

than the insane. but never

19:52

on average as large as

19:54

the healthy man. They will

19:56

more frequently have dark eyes

19:58

and thick black hair. Thieves,

20:00

in in particular are

20:02

notable for their

20:04

misshapen noses eyebrows eyebrows.

20:06

in nearly all

20:08

criminals criminals, one will note large

20:10

ears. What? Miss shapen nose? eyebrows,

20:13

large ears. think I

20:15

think he's describing

20:17

your own clever. Hey! What does that

20:19

make him? A does that

20:21

was it? Forge Ladies, this is

20:23

Ladies, this is am I am trying

20:25

to listen. Who are you here you here

20:28

with? is going on you, sir? I'm trying

20:30

to listen. Will you

20:32

kindly talk to your

20:34

companions speech? speech? are not

20:36

my companions. I'm asking

20:38

them asking them to... It's not me.

20:40

quiet while the professor

20:42

is talking. talking. Yes, sir, it's quite

20:44

distracting. Yes, if you can please

20:46

be quiet. be quiet. But how...

20:49

But how... Overreliance on

20:51

incarceration. Where is is the

20:53

evidence simply locking up all types

20:55

of criminals is any sort

20:57

of solution? So So

20:59

many minor crimes are driven by poverty.

21:01

by These are not

21:03

criminals by nature. by Simply

21:06

desperate men men to desperate

21:08

acts. acts. Imprisonment

21:10

is the answer. And it's not

21:12

just not just social

21:14

factors leading to incarceration,

21:17

but psychological ones too. ones

21:19

too. The insane should be

21:21

treated in hospitals and not

21:24

prisons, and I would like

21:26

to draw on my own pioneering

21:28

work own several asylums in Italy

21:30

to illustrate this. asylums

21:32

in however, to let me begin by

21:34

taking stock of the state of

21:36

crime let Ireland by taking

21:39

stock of the state of

21:41

crime here, in Ireland, and

21:44

how it relates to my work. You

21:46

you think of the

21:48

talk? quite You were right. He's

21:50

He's quite compelling. I'm not

21:52

so sure about this born criminal business but

21:54

he does talk a lot of sense

21:56

about how all those criminals were

21:58

basically locked up for being poor. Yes, I

22:00

liked what he said about poverty and social

22:02

issues. He's not one of those conservative, lock

22:05

them all up and throw away the key

22:07

types. And he's persuasive, isn't he? What that

22:09

experience in the asylums in Italy, all those

22:11

case studies? He's a great speaker, all right.

22:14

Do you think there might be anything in

22:16

it for one of your weeklies? I don't

22:18

know. It's far too academic for the Dublin

22:20

Weekly. And I've got that other piece still

22:23

to write for the Irish cyclist anyway. Unless

22:25

I can convince Cesaray Lambrasso to go on

22:27

a little cycling jaunt around Dublin. What do

22:29

you think? Yes. Speaking of cycling, my safety

22:32

is just here. Where's yours? I'm just over

22:34

there. I don't know what I was thinking

22:36

wearing this outfit. You're far more sensible than

22:38

yours. Come on, let's go. It's getting late.

22:41

At least the roads aren't so slippery now.

22:43

Ah, look at them and their safety voice

22:45

icons. You're right, ladies! Don't get your petty

22:47

coats all caught up now. We wouldn't want

22:50

too beautiful ladies such as ourselves getting upset

22:52

on a nice evening like this, would we?

22:54

We'll be fine gentlemen. Women and boys equals

22:56

everywhere these days. It's ridiculous. You know, those

22:59

ones, they talk some sense in to you.

23:01

Come on, Francis, let's go. Should they're all

23:03

at it now? It's off a show. They

23:06

probably can't even ride them properly. Sir. I

23:08

can confidently say we can ride these bicycles

23:10

considerably better than you've written anything or anyone

23:12

in your lifetime. Francis, come on! What's that

23:15

supposed to mean? Hey, how dare you say

23:17

that? Hey, come back here. Come on, down

23:19

this way! It was very unlike you. I

23:21

can't believe you said that. That's the second

23:24

time this week ever had to put up

23:26

with that nonsense. can't ride a bicycle. I

23:28

cycled to Wicklow and back last weekend Margaret.

23:30

50 miles. And I still think you are

23:33

both crazy and incredibly impressive. Oh I meant

23:35

to say I'm looking at After Elizabeth tomorrow,

23:37

said I'd bring her

23:39

to the zoo to the

23:42

you like to come

23:44

along to come along? It's Sunday. Only

23:46

a penny in We could meet

23:48

meet you at noon

23:51

at the entrance. I know

23:53

how I know how

23:55

you feel about it's fine. A

23:57

it's fine for wild not

24:00

a place for wild

24:02

animals, but I know

24:04

how much Elizabeth adores it.

24:07

I really would love

24:09

to see her. She's

24:11

getting so big big. Elizabeth

24:13

be delighted. You know how

24:16

much she looks up

24:18

to you to you. right

24:20

then. can meet at

24:22

noon at the Entrance.

24:25

I won't be able

24:27

to stay all day

24:29

though I've got that meeting with my publisher and

24:31

I need to do some preparation. I

24:34

won't be able

24:37

to stay all

24:39

day though. I've

24:41

All the animals all there, sir. Tiger,

24:44

they're fine. Nothing suspicious. And we checked

24:46

in on the wolves, orangutans, lions. and I doing

24:48

a final loop around by the monkeys.

24:50

He should be back in a minute. preparation.

24:52

Thank God this looks like

24:54

it's nothing to do with

24:56

us. to do with Here's Sean coming

24:58

he can give us the

25:00

final word and... a final

25:02

word and... Wait, what's he doing?

25:05

Look, he's seen He's seen something.

25:07

over there! Yes, look, there's there!

25:09

running look! the There's someone running from

25:11

the bushes over there. him? you see

25:13

him? cut we can cut him off

25:15

this way! wait, stop. On ya, it's too dangerous. He's it's

25:18

too dangerous. way now. He's heading the

25:20

other way closer and far closer and he's

25:22

never gonna catch him. him. He's fast!

25:24

He's over the fence already. fence already.

25:27

Sean! Sean! Come come back! He's

25:29

gone! you think you think he was the murderer?

25:31

Well, what name was he doing if he wasn't?

25:34

he doing if he we've

25:36

done all we could. done all we Will you

25:38

go to the office and telegram the police?

25:40

Come at once. telegram the police to

25:42

come at once? Yes, sir. That

25:44

could run. I saw. Straight

25:46

up and over the fence. fence, Like

25:48

one of the of the bloody I know. I

25:50

know! Could you Could you see from where

25:52

you were? you were? Was there a strange

25:54

light or something? I don't don't know if he

25:57

was carrying a small lamp or... I

25:59

don't know. know. Nothing I could

26:01

see from where I was. Listen,

26:03

Sean. You've gone above and beyond.

26:05

You're saving Onya. Nothing else you

26:07

could have done. Onya's contacting the

26:09

police now. If you'll wait until

26:11

we talk to them, we can

26:13

get this all sorted and get

26:15

home to our beds. So much

26:17

for a Saturday night by the

26:19

fire. Thanks for all your help.

26:22

Not at all, sir. I don't

26:24

think I'll be sleeping much tonight.

26:26

That poor man. What a way

26:28

to die. Who do you think

26:30

he is or... was. I've no

26:32

idea. All we know now is

26:34

that it wasn't a zoo animal

26:36

that killed them, but my God,

26:38

by the looks of that body,

26:40

it may as well have been.

26:42

A toast, Professor, to a wonderful

26:44

talk this evening. Thank you, Dr.

26:47

Ryan. I thought it went very

26:49

well indeed. It has been wonderful

26:51

to meet so many of your

26:53

colleagues. I have to find some

26:55

time later for a discussion with

26:57

Dr. Dixon. We have a mutual

26:59

friend in Paris, and I've been

27:01

following his recent zoological work with

27:03

great interest. The craniological measurements of

27:05

criminals and apes have fascinating parallels.

27:07

Indeed, but we'll have plenty of

27:09

time to discuss all of this

27:11

tomorrow after you're addressed to the

27:14

zoological society. For now, let's have

27:16

a drink. Another glass of wine?

27:18

No. Thank you. I'm... After such

27:20

a fine talk. A celebratory light

27:22

like this? Surely you'll have a

27:24

glass of wine. No, it's... Dr.

27:26

Ryan, I'm afraid it's... well, not

27:28

the drinking so much as the

27:30

drink. The wine is... if I'm

27:32

honest, it's untrinkable. Oh, I... Now,

27:34

I have a very fine 1886

27:36

Kianti classical in my suitcase in

27:39

the lobby. I never traveled without

27:41

a few bottles of excellent wine.

27:43

One can't be too careful. Perhaps

27:45

I'll fetch it. And you might

27:47

join me. I think my suitcase

27:49

is still in the lobby. Give

27:51

me just a moment. Excuse me,

27:53

is my me, is

27:55

my luggage still

27:57

here, or has

27:59

it been brought

28:01

up to my

28:04

room, I need

28:06

Professor Lombroso. Excuse me

28:08

one moment. Madam, do I know you?

28:10

I'm Miss do I Scott?

28:12

you? I'm Miss Scott. about

28:14

Scott? tonight to the... Madam,

28:16

your visit tonight here? And in person,

28:18

I are you doing here that I in

28:20

person I was very clear that I

28:22

would make my own way to the

28:24

house a it can be difficult to get a

28:27

cab around here at this time of night, Professor. I

28:29

I thought I'd collect you myself. you myself.

28:31

My -in -law is a cab driver. is He's

28:33

just outside. He's but outside. can't be

28:35

seen with you right now. now.

28:37

There are There are distinguished men

28:39

of science. They won't understand what

28:41

we're doing. doing. Well, as men of

28:43

science, they should be exactly this sort

28:45

of the sort of of course. yes,

28:47

I know that. that. But but

28:49

it's about appearances, Miss Scott, Scott.

28:52

and my capacity here as a

28:54

a of criminology. Also, I

28:56

really I really don't understand why this has to

28:58

be quite so late at night. I

29:00

know, night. I but but explained Professor, in

29:02

my particular case it seems to work

29:04

best in the very early hours

29:06

of the morning. early am I the morning.

29:08

And who am I to- you wait outside

29:10

with your brother? Or with it is. Or

29:12

I'll be out as soon as I can.

29:14

as There are people here who would like

29:16

to speak to me. I can't to speak to

29:18

me. I can't just... right, All I was

29:20

trying to do you a to but I can see

29:23

when I'm not not Scott, please. please.

29:25

I do appreciate the

29:27

transport, and I have the

29:29

utmost respect for your abilities.

29:31

It's have the utmost

29:33

respect if

29:35

you'll excuse me. I'll be out

29:37

as soon as I can. just...

29:39

How this looks?

29:42

Precisely. Now, if you'll

29:44

excuse me, I'll be out where

29:46

were we? Oh, you

29:49

couldn't find the wine. Excuse

29:51

me? me? The Vino, famous bottle of Kianzi

29:53

that you were getting. Oh,

29:56

you of course, the wine. of

29:58

I, the wine. I, uh, I I had -

30:00

Yes, excuse me again, and let

30:02

me get that bottle after all.

30:04

Oh, Mr. Stevens, I just, I

30:06

cannot believe. I'm just, I'm in

30:09

shock. You must have gotten an

30:11

awful right here. Oh, I did.

30:13

Look, look, the fellow's heading over

30:16

here. That's got to be the

30:18

peelers. Where are their uniforms? Oh,

30:20

it must be the detectives. I

30:22

get over from the castle fast.

30:25

Gentlemen, my name is Chief Inspector

30:27

Augustus Barton. This is Detective Officer

30:29

Bradley. We got word there has

30:32

been a body found, is that

30:34

correct? Chief Inspector, thank you for

30:36

coming so quickly and in person.

30:38

I am Felix Stevens, the superintendent

30:41

of the zoo. Good evening. There's

30:43

been a terrible order. Truly awful.

30:45

Miss O'Dwyer here found the body

30:48

with Sean Doyle as they were

30:50

leaving and we believe the suspect

30:52

got away over there. The body,

30:54

you see, is just beyond the

30:57

bushes there and when Sean and...

30:59

Sir, you'll need to start at

31:01

the beginning. Where is the body?

31:04

Right, yes, sorry, of course. It's

31:06

just over here, if you want

31:08

to follow... Wait, please. Now, Mr.

31:10

Mr. Stevens. Mr. Mr. Stevens. Perhaps

31:13

if Mr. Mr. Stevens here could

31:15

bring me over to the body.

31:17

My colleague Detective Bradley here will

31:20

talk to the rest of the

31:22

party. Yes, please. Let's move in

31:24

out of the cold air. Just

31:26

up here. Now, I know in

31:29

your line of work, you've probably

31:31

seen a few things, but this

31:33

is... well, you'll see. Ah, yes.

31:36

Let's have a look. And, uh...

31:38

Mother of God, he's torn-ish reds.

31:40

And, uh... Is... how you found

31:42

him? Yes. Miss Audwar spotted his

31:45

leg sticking out of the bushes

31:47

as she and Sean were leaving

31:49

and called me immediately. I see.

31:52

And you called the police immediately?

31:54

Well, we had a thought that

31:56

you know because of... he

31:58

looks we are, that with

32:01

we are. everything. with

32:03

the he was attacked by a wild that

32:05

he was attacked by a wild animal.

32:07

sure if you remember that poor boy mauled to death I'm not

32:09

sure if you remember that poor boy

32:11

mauled to death here back in any case,

32:14

we A terrible accident, awful cages. In any

32:16

case, we immediately checked all the cages.

32:18

You'll be glad to know that there

32:20

are no missing is animals. up Everything is

32:22

locked up Well, in the zoo. be Well,

32:24

I think you'd be forgiven for thinking

32:26

that this was some class of wild

32:29

animal attack. attack. Look at the man. You're

32:31

absolutely positive. Yes, sir. sir. We We checked

32:33

and all the all the cages. is open.

32:35

open. Nothing tampered with or broken. the

32:37

All the most dangerous animals are in

32:39

their cages. And I mean, there's only

32:41

a handful that could even do something

32:43

like this. like this. I see. Besides, we

32:45

know who did it. what? Yes, what? I

32:47

Yes, what I was trying to

32:49

tell you earlier. When When we were

32:51

checking all the cages, we we saw

32:53

a man sprint across the grass. the grass.

32:55

over the way there scale the fence,

32:58

straight up at as you like, you

33:00

a bother. to what happened next? happened he

33:02

got away. got away he He was much

33:04

too fast and he had a head start.

33:06

Sean was closer. closer Dwyer and I

33:08

were over I were side near the entrance the

33:10

couldn't see as much. You could talk

33:12

to Sean about that to Sean I see.

33:15

anyway I see idea who he is? he

33:17

is who the dead man he's He's very well

33:19

dressed, with with that jacket and hat

33:21

and everything. he must must be

33:23

someone important. No, I'm No,

33:25

I'm afraid I don't know who the gentleman is. is.

33:27

Well, I've seen I've seen enough for

33:30

now. this man you saw running off... this

33:32

man off saw running off. You'd be

33:34

best off look at him. Although look at

33:36

them. enough night. And a dark enough

33:38

night. see, Miss O'Dire? You'd agree with

33:40

Mr. what you could see, climbed the agree with

33:42

Mr Doyle, this man climbed the fence and

33:44

was gone? over the straight up and over

33:46

the fence the long gone by the time

33:48

Sean could get anywhere close. you've

33:51

got a you've got a statement from

33:53

everyone? from everyone? Right, for now you're

33:55

all free to go. I'll ask you ask

33:57

you all to report to Detective Bradley

33:59

here here at... A lower castle yard at

34:01

nine o'clock tomorrow morning. We'll have questions

34:03

for you then. Mr. Stevens, I'll need

34:06

to talk to you first thing tomorrow

34:08

morning. And I'll need to send a

34:10

telegram from your office now. We'll need

34:12

more men here. Yes, of course. The

34:15

office is just here. I lock up

34:17

here and be right with you. What

34:19

do you think, sir? Jesus Bradley. It's

34:21

gruesome. The man's tornish reds. Blood everywhere.

34:23

Half his neck is gone. This Stevens

34:26

fella says it's not one of their

34:28

animals, but we'll need to follow up

34:30

on that. It looks like a lion

34:32

attack or something. If it's not, I

34:35

don't know. Could be the Fenians? You

34:37

were there in 82, aren't you? A

34:39

lowly detective officer like myself? Jesus, how

34:41

could I forget? Another bloody Phoenix part

34:44

murder. But I don't know about this.

34:46

It doesn't feel the same at all.

34:48

I've heard nothing from any of the

34:50

usual informants, and there's not many who

34:53

would do something like this right now.

34:55

Well, there's this man they all saw

34:57

dash out of the place. I don't

34:59

know. He's a bit convenient, isn't he?

35:01

What if it was one of the

35:04

lions or something? They got it back

35:06

in the cage and then they all

35:08

saw this murderer sprinting out of the

35:10

place. Hmm, maybe. I mean, they say

35:13

he scaled that fence over there. That's

35:15

what? Fifteen feet high? But, well, we

35:17

can talk to them tomorrow, but they

35:19

all seemed very genuine to me. There

35:22

were no inconsistencies in their stories. I

35:24

don't know, sir. I believe them. Well,

35:26

one thing's for sure. If it was

35:28

a man, it wasn't robbery. The dead

35:31

man's wearing a silver fob watch must

35:33

be worth a fortune. It speaks to

35:35

Stephen's employees' characters, too, that it's still

35:37

there. And anything in his pocket? A

35:39

card or something to identify him? I

35:42

didn't need anything. And obviously do not

35:44

mention this to Stevens or any of

35:46

the others, but I know who it

35:48

is. Who? It's Sebastian Redgrave. Redgrave, as

35:51

in... Yes. as in

35:53

the only son of

35:55

Lord son of We

35:57

have just found the

36:00

chief secretary for

36:02

Ireland's son, brutally murdered

36:04

a few hundred

36:06

yards from his house.

36:09

for So this is gonna be a

36:11

long night then, I take it? It most certainly is,

36:13

Detective. a few

36:16

hundred yards from his

36:18

house. Right, so this

36:20

is going David. I

36:22

appreciate it. night then, I take here

36:25

we are, certainly is just

36:27

across the way here. I

36:29

do appreciate this, Miss this, Miss

36:31

and apologies if I was a

36:34

little surprised earlier in the hotel.

36:36

Please, don't mention it. the hotel.

36:39

will be waiting for us. Of course. After

36:41

you. will be

36:43

waiting for us. Of course.

36:45

After you. Beatrice! I

36:47

didn't I didn't know where

36:50

you'd got to. to. And Professor

36:52

Lombrosso, what a pleasure to

36:54

finally meet you. I'm

36:56

you. I'm Kate Kerry.

36:58

Please, come inside.

37:00

come inside. Miss you are

37:02

very kind. I believe we are

37:04

ready to begin. My

37:06

guests are all very anxious

37:09

to converse with the

37:11

dead. ready to begin.

37:13

My guests are all very Greatest

37:15

Matter was written and

37:18

directed by Conor Reid, recorded

37:20

at the podcast studio's

37:22

Dublin and produced by Hilary

37:24

Barry, with editing, sound design,

37:26

and original music by Conor Reid. Connor

37:28

Reed. Francis was was played

37:30

by Margaret was Margaret was Margaret

37:32

Lombroso was Dunnak O. D. was Dunneco Burton

37:35

was Dara Inspector And was Dara

37:37

Smith, Ward. and Ryan was James

37:39

Ward. Sean was played by was played

37:41

by Dara Smith, Beatrice and by

37:43

played by Amy O'Dwyer, Mr.

37:46

Stevens was Dunneco D, was Margaret

37:48

was Margaret McAuliffe, and

37:50

Detective Bradley was Connor Script

37:52

Support support from Peter Peter Dunn.

37:54

artwork and design by Mann, marketing

37:56

and and promotional support from Claudio

37:59

Grams, I'm Hillary. Barry. This show is

38:01

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38:03

Network. For more on the network,

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on how you can support this

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38:17

you'll find actor bios, links and

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further reading, images, full scripts and

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lots more. Thanks for listening. So

38:26

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