0:02

Food through sixty with Mark Murphy is a

0:04

production of I Heart Radio. Coffee

0:08

is very complex like wine,

0:10

even more complex coffee

0:12

is and experience. Coffee is not just taste

0:15

and flavor and caffeine. I think

0:17

being on the ground is the number

0:19

one ingredient to make sure that there's

0:21

no tears in your coffee. You have to be

0:24

you know, if you can get people to certify blah

0:26

blah, okay, that's great, but being part

0:28

of the communities, that's how you

0:30

do it. Welcome

0:33

to Food three sixty, the podcast that serves

0:35

up some serious of food for thought. I'm

0:37

your host, Mark Murphy. Some of you may know me

0:39

as a chef and a New York restaurateur. In

0:41

today's episode is bold. It's all about

0:44

coffee. As we say in Rome Noma,

0:46

Bion Caffe. Let's get started. Many

0:50

of us on the go like a joke that we're running on coffee,

0:53

but there's a good chance that that statement could

0:55

actually be true. For Georgio Milos and

0:57

Todd Carmichael, my guest today who

0:59

you heard of the start of the show, I

1:02

sat down first with Georgio Milos. He's

1:04

the master barista for INDI, the Italian

1:07

coffee roasting company that specializes

1:09

in espresso. His mother worked at Elie

1:11

for thirty five years as a quality control specialist,

1:14

and when she retired in he

1:16

took over her job. He won the Italian

1:18

Barista Championship in two thousand and eight

1:21

and currently travels the country training

1:23

and sharing his extensive coffee knowledge with

1:25

some of Elie's biggest corporate clients. Georgio,

1:30

thank you very much for joining me today. Let's

1:33

talk about what a baristas with the difference between

1:35

a master barista, a regular barista

1:37

and maybe I don't know, just a guy who makes

1:39

coffee. What's the difference between all these people? But there are many

1:42

difference between these figures. For example,

1:44

massa baristas I am. It's a person who

1:46

knows the agricultural production,

1:48

who knows how to taste the coffee, who knows

1:51

all the technical aspect of roasting,

1:53

grinding, transformation. And

1:56

also a masta barrista is somebody

1:58

that can share and teach a

2:00

great barista as you have, first

2:03

of all, passion, passion is

2:05

key. Then knowledge coffee

2:08

is a very big topic. So there is

2:10

a lot of things you know about the beans, about

2:13

the roast, thing about the transformation

2:15

and so on, but also after

2:18

the right skill. Coffee is very

2:20

complex like wine, even more complex

2:23

than wine because when you buy

2:25

coffee, you do not buy the final product

2:28

unless you buy you know, ready to drink and

2:30

other things. And the barista is

2:32

the wine maker of coffee. So a

2:35

barista or a home user can

2:37

make a very great cup of coffee or

2:39

a very bad cup of coffee with the same

2:41

good coffee saying good coffee. Because

2:43

there are so many variables involved, it's

2:45

really important to follow instructions

2:48

and also swollow your feelings sometimes.

2:51

So if you wake up in the morning and you make your cup of

2:53

coffee and you forgot to have passion while

2:55

you're making it, it might not be good. Yeah. Of

2:57

course, coffee is an experience. Coffee

2:59

is not us taste and flavor and coffee and the

3:01

environment. Probably where you're in the environment. Of course,

3:04

you know, you're having a cup of coffee at the local dump,

3:06

it probably doesn't taste as good. In that case,

3:08

you probably drink the coffee, you don't

3:10

taste the coffee. How do you judge a cup of coffee?

3:13

Well, first of all, the approach is

3:15

the site is the look, you know, you

3:17

take a look of the color. If I have

3:19

to judge brew coffee or

3:22

a pool over coffee that is not espressed,

3:24

So I like to having in a glass

3:26

cup so I can look through it. I

3:28

can look the red reflexes, the color of

3:30

the coffee if there is some residual

3:33

solids in the cup. And

3:36

then what I do first is

3:39

I close my eyes and smell it, because

3:41

the smell is the most important sense

3:43

we use when we taste coffee. The

3:46

sensation of smell gets into

3:48

your brain right away immediately, so in

3:50

that way you can start drinking your

3:52

coffee. Then you have to prepare the

3:55

other sense to taste. I take a

3:57

little sip and I keep the coffee in my mouth

3:59

for know y, so I can just prepare

4:02

all the test but for the tasting.

4:05

Then I take the second sip. That is usually

4:07

the sip you can start perceiving the

4:10

balance of taste. There is

4:12

no saltaness in coffee, but there is sweetness,

4:14

there is bitterness, and there is acidity. Then

4:17

from the third sip to the end of the cup,

4:19

you start perceiving different flavors, different

4:21

aromatics, because the coffee

4:23

in your mouth start releasing this volatized

4:26

aramas that move into your nose by

4:28

the retro nasal activity, and

4:31

then you start perceiving the flavor

4:33

that there is nothing else than a combination of taste

4:35

and smell. Wow, So that you just

4:38

start with your eye, you can see that, and then you're

4:40

gonna go dive into the cups. Really

4:42

the flavor. Don't use any what I like to

4:44

call contaminants in my coffee.

4:48

So I take the spoon and I start talking about

4:50

talking about sugar and syrups and

4:53

cream. Yeah, that's just a

4:56

coffee, and I'm good with that. It's not I

4:58

think, of course. But if the

5:00

coffee is really good, high quality

5:02

coffee, well prepared, you don't need any

5:04

sugar tot. So to the

5:06

listeners here, what is the one thing you

5:08

could tell somebody to improve their coffee

5:11

making at home? What would it be? Well, First

5:13

of all, use the right water. The

5:15

right water. Ninety seven to ninety

5:18

nine of your cup of coffee is water,

5:20

So the water you use for your coffee

5:22

is extremely important. My suggestion

5:25

is never used tough water. Even if you're in

5:27

New York here and the water is quite good,

5:29

right, that's still there is some like off

5:32

taste that can really change

5:34

the aromatics in the espresso. So

5:37

my suggestion is used spring bottle

5:39

water. And I was gonna ask you what the biggest mistake

5:41

is. I guess using bad water is the biggest

5:45

and boiling water. Coffee does

5:47

not require boiling water,

5:50

so especially they adicate coffees. Uh,

5:53

you know you drink tea, right, so you know

5:55

that you need different temperature of water

5:57

for green tea and black tea, right,

6:00

So it's a kind of same thing when coffee. So

6:03

some coffee require a little lower temperature.

6:05

We're always talking about one ninety two

6:07

hundred, no lower than one ninety.

6:10

But if you use boiling water to ten

6:12

to twelve, you burn the coffee

6:15

and you attract the bitters that you don't want.

6:17

So I want to clear this up because everybody calls them coffee

6:20

beans, but they're actually not beans. They're actually

6:22

berries. Correct. Their seeds

6:24

seed And then how does it go from being a

6:26

seed to a cup of coffee. Well, everything

6:29

started with a seed in the ground. The

6:31

seeds sprouted in like three

6:33

four weeks. This is usually

6:35

happening in a nursery, okay, and then they wait

6:38

one year in order to transfer the little

6:40

plant to the plantation. Then they

6:42

transferred the plant. Three years later,

6:45

the coffee plants start producing a

6:47

good amount of coffee cherries. From

6:50

there, the coffee plant can grow

6:52

up to thirty forty feet so, but they

6:55

provene on top in order to facilitate

6:57

the harvesting exactly

7:00

all. Every time there is a very important rainfall

7:02

following by a dry period, the

7:04

coffee plant produced a blossom that

7:07

in a couple of days become a beautiful white

7:10

flower with just mink notes it's

7:12

beautiful. Three days later,

7:15

the flowers get dry and fall

7:17

down, leaving the space for

7:20

the cherry. Nine months later,

7:22

the cherry is ripe. Yes,

7:25

So it takes nine months for cherry

7:27

to get at the right stage of maturation,

7:30

and then that's the moment of harvesting. In

7:33

some places where there are different rain

7:35

seasons, you can have over ripe,

7:38

under ripe, ripe flowers,

7:40

buds, any stage or moturation on the same

7:42

plant. So it's very important to use

7:45

what they call the picking harvesting. So there

7:47

are pickers people that pick

7:49

just the right ripe cherries that

7:51

could be red usually or yellow, depends

7:54

on the variety. After that, the coffee

7:56

has to be processed right away like grapes.

7:58

There are different processes methods. The most

8:01

used is the wash process methods. So

8:04

the skin of the coffee beans being

8:06

removed by a machine and then

8:08

the coffee beans are sucking water

8:10

for fifteen to thirty six hours,

8:13

depends on temperature and altitude and other

8:15

things. And then there is the last part

8:17

of the process is drying. It could be under

8:19

the sun or could be in a mechanical dryer.

8:22

The oldest method is called the natural process.

8:24

The cherry are just spread out in big

8:27

patios or in raised beds, and the

8:29

sun does the job for fifteen days

8:31

and it takes off the skin and the outside, the whole thing. Now,

8:34

yes, then they clean everything and then they put it

8:36

in a bag, and then the coffee is ready

8:38

to be roasted. And then there's also

8:40

this other thing now that's called cold brew there,

8:42

which I've never saw in Italy growing up. But evenly

8:45

it's a little bit different coffee market than

8:47

any other countries. You know, in Italy. As

8:50

Italians, we are very conservative,

8:53

let's say, to our traditions. I

8:55

lived in Italy, I was born in Milan, I lived in Rome.

8:57

I've traveled a lot in Italy, and I always

8:59

find interesting in Naples, and I was just there recently.

9:02

They're so obsessed about their coffee

9:05

cups being hot. For the first

9:07

time saw an espresso machine

9:09

sitting there and next to it cups

9:11

upside down and boiling water,

9:14

and they handed me that cup. That cup was

9:16

a thousand degrees. Basically, it

9:18

was an amazing espresso. They liked it a lot.

9:21

Also a technical explanation for the

9:23

super hot cup because in south

9:26

of Italy, especially in aple Innopoly,

9:28

the volume in cup is very short.

9:31

We're talking about not even alpha ounce

9:33

of liquid, so they've extract less in

9:35

the north. It's about announcing down south it's yes,

9:38

let's say about the amount of liquid is so small

9:40

that if you don't use a

9:42

very super supernova temperature

9:45

cup, right, the cup absorbed

9:48

the temperature from the coffee itself, from the espress

9:50

itself, changing the taste profile.

9:53

The essays in coffee when the temperature

9:55

drops breaks down in simple assets, so the

9:57

coffee become more acidic when it cools.

10:00

Okay, that happening in any

10:02

kind of preparation. Well, this was all very

10:04

very informative. I want to thank you very much. Georgio

10:07

for being here today was a very

10:09

pleasure, And as I said, I could keep going for

10:11

a couple of weeks if you want. Yeah, no, the

10:14

podcast is in that long. But

10:16

I'm gonna tell you what I really want now is

10:18

the nicest. Thank you so much for We'll

10:21

be right back after a quick break. Welcome

10:25

back to Food three sixty. To

10:28

get a larger understanding of the coffee industry,

10:31

I spoke with someone who actually flies around

10:33

the world in search of the perfect coffee bean.

10:35

Todd Carmichael is the CEO and co founder

10:37

of le Alom, one of the best specialty roasters

10:40

in our current third wave of coffee. In

10:42

two thousand and eleven, he was named Esquire's

10:44

American of the Year in part for his

10:46

philanthropic work reviving the coffee

10:48

economy in Haiti. He's traveled

10:50

far and wide to explore the different coffee cultures

10:53

in the world, and he's documented his explorations

10:55

for two Travel Channel shows, Dangerous

10:57

Grounds and Uncommon Grounds. So

11:01

thank you so much for joining me. It's a pleasure. So

11:03

when you got into coffee, you wanted to get coffee

11:05

from Haiti, but you couldn't find it anywhere in America.

11:08

And from what I understand, when you can't find what you

11:10

want, you just pack a suitcase and you go there. Yeah,

11:12

backpack. Yeah. I was making a blend for the

11:14

South for Sean Brock, right, and

11:17

you know, Sean is a He's a beast when it comes

11:19

to finding the right ingredients and you don't

11:21

mess around with that. I want to get something authentic,

11:23

and it has to include Haitian coffee because

11:26

that was the coffee of the South for hundreds of years,

11:28

right, But there was none left in the States,

11:30

so I said, all right, backpack it up, let's go in.

11:33

This was right after the earthquake, so

11:35

you can imagine things were upside down. And this was kind

11:38

of lighting a fire under me too, because I know

11:40

that you know as a farm kid, that selling

11:43

your produce, your products to the market,

11:45

is what helps you survive. Without that,

11:47

you lose the farm. And so what

11:49

I saw when I saw the earthquake was there's

11:52

gonna be some coffee farmers who are gonna lose their farms.

11:54

So let's get on the road this go. It was quite

11:57

an adventure, you know. What I found was

11:59

both promising way but also devastating,

12:02

just heartbreaking. So the remedy

12:05

would be more than just buying a container of coffee.

12:07

It meant getting involved in the communities.

12:10

Well, that's what I understand is that you know a lot of

12:12

these countries where these beans are grown are very

12:14

poor countries. They have just been taking advantage

12:16

of used and abused over the years. That

12:18

is definitely the case. It's less and less, but it's

12:20

always still a problem, you know. I think

12:23

being on the ground is the number

12:25

one ingredient to make sure that there's

12:27

no tears in your coffee. You have to be you

12:29

know, if you can get people to certify and blah blah,

12:32

okay, that's great, but being part of the

12:34

communities, that's how you do it,

12:36

and that makes you feel like when you get up in the morning, you're doing

12:38

something right as well. My job is to make people

12:40

happy with coffee, and that

12:42

means the people who make it. That means the people who work

12:45

it, and that means people who drink it. So everyone's

12:47

going to be happy with this coffee, right, and

12:49

it's not about me, which is not

12:52

now. If it were man, people

12:54

would come back. I think, what the freak, you

12:56

know, because I may have found the coffee

12:58

that tastes vaguely of Q cumber, and I don't know why.

13:01

So we're going to drink that for a week. You know. It's like people

13:03

like somewhere else nuts.

13:07

Yeah, but it's just looking out and making

13:09

sure you're happy. I mean that's the idea. Well, you had

13:11

a travel show at one point, and I heard certain

13:13

things happen to you got shot at, you got stabbed.

13:16

I mean that was all in the name of finding good

13:18

coffee. Yeah, coffee has grown in

13:20

the isolated parts of isolated countries.

13:22

So I mean even in the countries that you're going,

13:24

you'll saying I'm going there for them. That's extraordinarily

13:27

isolated, way up in the mountains along the equator,

13:30

right, and it's also a place where there's

13:32

a lot of conflict, right, So you're gonna have opium

13:35

or you know, poppy growth. This is where you're gonna

13:37

get most of your militia groups might

13:39

be hiding in there, or particularly right

13:41

after some kind of political unrest

13:44

or in fighting within the country. That's where

13:46

things are going to stay hot. But that's where

13:48

your farmers are, so you want to get in, take

13:51

care of them, and get out of dodge. I

13:53

just bleep myself. That was very good.

13:56

So this is a dangerous job being a coffee

13:58

person. It can be because you know, each

14:00

country is built a little differently, right, So right

14:03

now there's some beautiful being coming out of Dr

14:05

Congo on the Rwandan side, like

14:07

Kivu. Right they're about fourteen

14:10

different factions that are shooting each other in the face

14:12

right now, but there's coffee there. So the

14:14

question is do you go in or don't you? It's like, I want

14:16

to go in and buy their coffee and support their growers, but

14:18

then of course you also don't want to get killed. Right,

14:20

there's an equation. There's an equation. You

14:22

have to sort of figure that out. So the flavor

14:25

comes from the plant obviously, how it's grown

14:27

and where it's grown, like wine, like you know some

14:29

people like peanut and wire and some people like cabernet,

14:31

Like what's the difference in between those plants?

14:33

And also, I guess the second part of that question

14:36

is does the roasting have a lot

14:38

to do with what your final product is?

14:40

So coffee is exactly the opposite

14:43

of wine because in wine, you take

14:45

the juice from the fruit and you throw

14:47

away the seeds and the rest where in coffee

14:50

we keep the seeds and we throw a ray of fruit it's

14:53

a cherry. Now that seed,

14:55

it's base flavor. It's going to be contingent on

14:58

the plant that's growing in because there's many

15:00

different varieties of coffee plants. The

15:02

altitude is super key because

15:04

the higher the altitude, the more dense

15:06

that seed becomes as it goes lower,

15:09

and the more porous it becomes. That's the density

15:11

that gives it its flavor. You have how

15:13

it's processed, from the moment it's picked,

15:16

whether it's washed or natural or dry,

15:19

the age of it. So let's say you get all of that

15:21

done, you bring down this super high

15:24

out coffee, let's say a Geisha from

15:26

Panama. It's treated and processed

15:28

well like, it's bagged, it's cry o BacT it hits

15:30

your station and then you burn it. Yeah, it's good taste

15:33

like. But in that coffee right there,

15:35

twelve years ago have sold for at the

15:37

farm. It was me and two other companies were

15:39

bidding for it for four d and seventy

15:41

nine dollars a pound. That's how good that coffee

15:44

was. And it's still coming out of that region

15:46

and you can get coffees, they're so outrageous

15:48

to hurt you, but in two minutes on

15:51

a roaster, just screwed

15:53

it. It's like taking blue fish tuna and

15:55

having it cooked by my grandmother. You know. It's

15:57

like yeah, yeah,

16:01

oh wow. And so is it just because of the

16:03

altitude that the pit is more dense. Yeah, everybody's

16:06

probably thinking what I'm thinking, what do you do with the fruit? You just

16:08

throw it out? Is because fertilizer? Well no, see,

16:10

now in region, there's a couple of things. One

16:12

you tell it back into the soil like a responsible

16:15

husband of the land. But for consumption

16:17

in origin, people make tea from it, and it's outrageously

16:20

good. In fact, if you make it like a graph

16:22

of antioxidents and you go like, well, here's

16:24

the blueberry, and you have a line, and you have whatever, essay,

16:27

here's a line, and then you put like cascara

16:29

is what it's called. That line goes for like nineteen

16:31

pages. It is outrageous

16:34

and antioxidants and why are you not selling

16:36

this at your stores? Every coffee guy

16:38

and girl on the planet tries to do it, but

16:40

the word cascara does not translate over

16:42

to people because of the word being

16:44

had we used the word seed instead of being.

16:46

Maybe, I mean, I think people do think it's a being

16:49

that you pull out of a pod or something. And so

16:51

when you say coffee fruit, when

16:53

you're at that point where you're making a decision in

16:56

the store, you go, oh, my god, I don't understand what that is.

16:58

But people are starting to understand coffee much better

17:00

than they used to write. Yeah, I think that, you know,

17:02

the proliferation of information has been helpful.

17:05

I think that the third wave movement and you

17:07

know, this whole kind of naval gazing taste.

17:09

You know, we did for a while we didn't wine. Now we did

17:11

in coffee. So now everyone's kind of verse. And

17:14

I'll tell you the big one. It was like in two thousand and

17:16

eight. It was going back to Ethiopia

17:18

and I decided I was going to do a cold brew

17:21

in my house and I pour it into a bottle,

17:23

right because I was only getting about three

17:25

hours sleep and I didn't want to brew coffee use

17:27

the grinder, wake of kids, that kind of thing. Right, got

17:30

in the car I was driving, and

17:32

I just made a really good one and I

17:35

drank it and I thought, you know what, I'm

17:37

gonna do that. I'm gonna make cold brew tanks.

17:39

I'm gonna get a little ball in. I'm gonna sell people

17:42

with this product I'm eating right now. It's great,

17:44

This is wonderful. And there was

17:46

no word called cold brew. I call it cold press,

17:48

you know, because I used a press to do it. Then

17:50

two now, at luck a home cafes,

17:54

of what we sell is cold zero

17:58

percent n zero percent. Where

18:00

it is today is so incredibly

18:02

huge. I can't begin to explain it to

18:05

you. So one day you get up in the morning,

18:07

you make this stuff, and you're driving along. You go, wait,

18:09

I got an idea. We're gonna make millions of

18:11

dollars with this coffee. That's not we don't have to heat

18:13

it up. It's never really that. I always

18:16

just think this is something I like. It

18:18

must mean that other people should like it too, and

18:20

let's make more of it. Right. The big challenge

18:22

then was that I realized, Okay, this whole

18:25

culprit thing is doing really well, and

18:27

now I'm entering this new space called CpG

18:29

or grocery, right, so tons

18:31

of new things to learn, which I like, excuse and

18:35

slotting feet and blah blah blah, and all this craziness,

18:38

and I said, but it's so unfinished. What we

18:40

need to do is we need to figure out a way

18:42

to put the single most important beverage

18:45

of brick and mortar cafes in a can

18:47

or bottle, and that would be a latte. But

18:50

the problem was a lot has

18:52

three ingredients. You know, it's concentrated

18:54

coffee, which is wrestle like you drink this milk,

18:56

and the third ingredient is vapor. Definitionally,

19:00

it's incorrect. So the nerd in me gets upset

19:02

that it's like we're not delivering on the promise. So

19:05

I went to work on my lab on

19:07

how to salt that. Can you walk us through that? Well,

19:10

first I had to go borrow something from

19:12

my wife or no, it's something in a shower,

19:14

right, and I noticed that she takes her shaving

19:16

cream cans and turns them upside down. Right,

19:19

you don't know that they do this. They do this because they don't

19:21

want to have rust rims on that. Yeah,

19:23

they do this, and someone nodding over there, dudes

19:26

don't know that we know

19:28

that because then you know, they don't want to leave

19:30

a little rust rims on the marble. So they turn

19:32

it upside down, and when it was turned upside down, I saw

19:34

there was a valve on it, and I thought

19:36

to myself, Oh, that's how they put gas in there

19:39

to compress the jail. So will come from I can that's

19:41

pretty smart. But I left my consciousness.

19:44

Two weeks later, I'm standing in the refrigerator

19:46

my kids for he's got this huge,

19:49

wicked, giant curly head of hair, and he's standing

19:51

right in front of me, and I'm teaching him how to eat out a refrigerator

19:54

without anyone knowing, right, And this is totally

19:57

life lessons, right. You start with this stuff.

20:00

They don't count like pickles, right,

20:02

you know. But there is the no man's land

20:04

area, like don't touch the cupcakes. They

20:06

noticed that, right, But there's the whip cream

20:08

can. Now, if you don't take too

20:11

much, you're good, right, Right, So

20:13

I take a little whip crane, I bend his head back and

20:15

I squirted into his mouth and

20:17

everyone it's vaporman. There's

20:20

texturized milk. That's what I'm looking for. Nitrous

20:23

sock side valve upstairs I saw on the man

20:25

and so I went down on my lab and two hours

20:27

later I had the first draft a lot. Then it worked.

20:30

Wow. I took a can, droll a

20:32

hole in it, put a volleyball valve in it, put

20:34

the ingredients inside, seemed to shut turned

20:37

it nitrosock side tank with the pin that you would

20:39

normally fill a basketball needle. Put it in

20:41

there, agitated it, put it up the thirty five pounds,

20:44

pulled it, let it sit for two minutes, opened

20:46

it pop. Damn thing, It's just foamed

20:48

in the cup. So I rised, well, that's

20:51

it. The latte in the cappuccino are now mobile.

20:53

Now they're mobile. Wow. How do you

20:56

compete with your competition? It doesn't sound like you're

20:58

the type of guy that says I'm competing. You just do

21:00

what you do, and you do it well, and you figured that's

21:02

going to go forward. You know. I do compete mentally

21:04

with Okay, you know, I'm the guy that walked

21:06

across Aunt dark. Yeah, you're the first person to walk

21:08

across Antarctica. Yeah, solo, unsupported,

21:11

And so you get dropped two months on your

21:13

own. Who you're competing with there is

21:15

the guy from yesterday, you

21:17

know, And I got that in my mind. It's always

21:20

to try to beat yesterday. Todd and

21:22

if you stay there, you don't get bored,

21:24

you don't fall apart. You've always got someone

21:27

there to compete against. So you create this

21:29

thing in your head and a lot of ways

21:31

I apply that to myself. Now I

21:33

want to beat this. My next thing is I gotta

21:35

beat the draft latte. Sounds crazy,

21:37

huh, But I want to do better than that.

21:40

I don't know how, and then I want to improve

21:42

it at the same time, like, what can I do

21:44

this more incredible than that? You get

21:46

up every morning. You're competing with yourself. Yeah,

21:48

yeah, yeah, that's how it works because

21:51

I was kind of the first modern

21:53

kind of roaster on the East coast and right,

21:56

and then there are others that come on, but they've all

21:58

sold their companies. And now you're looking around,

22:00

going if I were competing against them,

22:03

but what I do now buy a bigger car.

22:05

Well yeah, but when you're competing against people,

22:07

you're putting a lot of responsibility on them, Like

22:10

you've got to stick around, man, and you better keep

22:12

competing ast me. What is next for lack alone?

22:14

What's in the horizon? I'm gonna come out with a brand

22:17

new idea here probably the end of the year

22:19

the beginning of next year, we're looking at

22:21

sharing what we do with more countries, so

22:23

getting back into more of the giving back. Yeah.

22:26

But also i'd like to export and I'd like

22:28

to build factories in other countries too. I mean,

22:30

in other words, you know, coffee consuming

22:32

countries I'd like to get involved in. And

22:34

then yeah, I'd like to just continue to grow

22:37

a monster company that one

22:39

day I can take on the big boys. I want

22:41

to pull down either coke or pepsi and

22:43

choke them. Okay, that's what I'd like to do, Like

22:46

get him on the map. I'm gonna kill them, just like make

22:48

them tap out, right, Yeah, alright,

22:54

one last thing. I have a little game for us to

22:56

play. I'm gonna ask you a question something about

22:58

coffee, and you're gonna tell if it's true or false.

23:01

Seattle is the coffee shop capital of America.

23:04

True or false? False? Yes, New

23:06

York has the highest concentration of coffee shops.

23:08

Teddy Roosevelt love coffee so much he drank

23:11

a gallon a day. True or false with

23:13

all the cigars. I'm gonna

23:15

go with Yes, Yeah, that's true. That's true.

23:17

Finland is the world's most caffeinated

23:20

country. True or false. True. Yeah,

23:22

the average adult there goes through

23:24

twenty seven point five pounds a year.

23:26

Americans drink only about eleven pounds a

23:29

year. You should see how they brew it. That's

23:31

the thing. They use a lot of coffee per ounce.

23:33

Then it's not really that efficient, it's just their process.

23:36

An average American spends about five dollars

23:38

on coffee a year. True or false. I

23:41

would think more. Yeah, that's false.

23:43

They spent an average with a thousand dollars a year.

23:46

Irish coffee was invented to warm up cold

23:48

American plane passengers who were flying

23:51

from Ireland to New York. True

23:53

or false. Sounds plausible. It is

23:55

true, as chef puts some whiskey in the coffee to warm

23:57

them up. This was back in Huh.

24:00

Well, this was fantastic. I feel like I've gotten quite

24:02

an education today. Thank you so much for coming in

24:04

here and educating us. That

24:09

was amazing. I learned so much about coffee

24:11

today. I want to thank my guests, Georgio Milos

24:14

and Todd Carmichael. See you next week.

24:19

Food through six is a production of I Heart

24:21

Radio and I'm your host, Mark Murphy. A

24:23

very special thanks to Emily Carpet, My director

24:25

of Communications, and producers Nikki

24:28

Etre and Christina Everett. Mixing

24:30

and music by Anna Stump and recording

24:32

help from Julian Weller and Jacopo

24:34

Benzo. Thank you to Bethan Macaluso

24:37

and Kara Weissenstein for handling research.

24:40

Food through Sixty is executive produced

24:42

by manguest at Ticketer. For more

24:44

podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I

24:46

heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

24:49

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Two