0:00

is The Guardian. Imagine

0:14

waking up to find your bank account

0:16

drained. Bills for loans you never took

0:18

out. A warrant for your arrest, all

0:21

because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't

0:23

waiting. Why are you? That's why we're

0:25

thrilled to partner with aura. Your personal

0:28

data is a goldmine for hackers, and

0:30

aura helps lock it down. aura monitors

0:32

the dark web, blocks data brokers from

0:34

selling your information, includes a VPN for

0:37

private browsing, and a password manager to

0:39

secure your accounts before criminals blocks data brokers from selling your information, includes a VPN for private browsing, and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals

0:41

break in. For a limited time,

0:43

ORA is offering our listeners a

0:46

14-day free trial plus a dark

0:48

web scan to check if your

0:51

personal information has been leaked, all

0:53

for free at ora.com/safety. To sign

0:55

up and start protecting yourself and

0:58

your loved ones. That's a-u-r-a.com/safety. Terms

1:00

apply, check the break in. For a limited time, aura is offering our... site for details.

1:09

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

1:11

We'll kick off with a huge win for

1:13

Nottingham Forest at Spurs, taking them back up to

1:16

third in the Premier League. They scored twice

1:18

and they decided to see if they could hold

1:20

the lead, and unsurprisingly they could. And then

1:22

it's the EFL, the season -defining Good Friday, Easter

1:24

Monday games have defined some seasons. At the

1:26

top, Burnley's win over Sheffield United means the Clarets

1:28

and Leeds are promoted. Who will be better

1:30

in the Premier League? Scott Parker's Meanies, 15 goals

1:33

conceded, or Daniel Farker's Swashbucklers? None of the

1:35

sides in the playoff mix won both their

1:37

games. Could it be Frank Lampard versus Michael Carrick?

1:39

for the final spot. At the bottom,

1:41

Plymouth and Luton have hope, and Aaron Ramsey, can he

1:43

give Cardiff some good vibes to get them out

1:45

of the mire. Birmingham have wrapped up League 1,

1:47

and now Wrexmer in the box seat to join them,

1:49

while at the bottom, the mighty U's look destined

1:51

for League 2. Perhaps getting one point in the

1:53

first nine games wasn't such a good idea. No one

1:55

wants to win League 2, we'll try and work

1:57

out who will. All that plus your questions, and

1:59

that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On

2:08

the panel today, Barry Glenn Denning, welcome. Hello,

2:10

Max. Hello, Sonny, Roger

2:12

Vagela. Hello, Max. And

2:15

from Not The Top 20 podcast, George Eleg.

2:17

Good morning. Good morning, Max. Let's

2:20

start with Nottingham Forest's win at Spurs.

2:22

James says, could Spurs win the championship? Good

2:24

for making it an EFL type question.

2:26

We don't need to spend too much time

2:28

on this, Barry, because we've done a

2:30

lot of Spurs, aren't good. And

2:32

we've done quite a lot of Nottingham Forest. are

2:35

good. But it is a huge win for

2:37

Forrest because they'd lost two in a row. Dr.

2:39

Tottenham will see you now. Yeah,

2:42

it was. And

2:44

I feel like I've said this

2:46

a lot about Forrest. Another textbook

2:49

Forrest win. Score first, score

2:51

early. If you get

2:53

another one, great. They got another one, great.

2:55

And then maximize, you know, that

2:58

maximization of efficiency has served

3:00

them well all season. And

3:02

then try to close out

3:04

the game. by defending objurically, letting

3:06

the opposition have the ball. If

3:08

you, Dr. Tottenham, wish to send

3:10

in cross after cross after cross after

3:13

cross, that's fine. We've got Marilla,

3:15

we've got Milenkovich, we'll deal with it,

3:17

no problem. And if

3:20

you do get past them, we

3:22

have a very good goalkeeper

3:24

in match sales. We have the third

3:27

best defense in the league, so

3:29

we will probably win having gone

3:31

two goals up. And that's exactly

3:33

what happened. I think when Ange

3:35

goes at the end of the season,

3:37

as he probably will, and has

3:39

the time to reflect

3:41

on his two years, this basket

3:44

case of a football club he's

3:46

managing, he will be

3:48

able to say that,

3:50

look, my second season there was dog

3:52

by injuries, what could I do? But

3:54

he has a more or less fit

3:56

squad to choose from now and has

3:58

that for some time. They're

4:00

not. any better than the one

4:02

that was injury ravaged are they i

4:04

can't see any noticeable improvement and

4:07

they let in two pretty soft goals

4:09

the defending for both was could

4:11

have been a lot better they pulled

4:13

them back they had a few

4:15

chances but ultimately Forrest held on and

4:17

and were deserving winners i would

4:20

say yeah so for us back up

4:22

to third 60 points Tottenham have

4:24

now lost 18. Their record is 19

4:26

defeats in a season. Ozil Diles,

4:28

yeah, they're sort of frantic when they

4:30

attack. You're right. Harry Tuffalo cleared

4:32

one off the line brilliantly. Matt

4:35

Sales made one great save. I

4:37

had completely forgotten Harry Tuffalo. Was that

4:39

not even for it? I had

4:41

completely forgotten Harry Tuffalo existed. and

4:44

was quite surprised to see him last

4:46

night. So, yeah, well done, Harry. He

4:48

played well, very well. Well done, Harry.

4:50

Yeah, I suppose I have Liverpool at

4:52

Anfield next, so a good chance to

4:54

join Aussie's record. At least the players

4:56

are still playing for him, I guess.

4:59

There's some more Premier League. Tonight Man

5:01

City Villa Wednesday Arsenal Crystal Palace will

5:03

do those on Thursday. Right, let's do

5:05

the championship and promotion leads and Burnley's

5:07

promotions both confirmed, mainly because of Burnley's

5:09

2 -1 win over Sheffield United in

5:11

the late kickoff. Josh Brown here with

5:13

both goals, some atmosphere

5:15

at Turfmore and a great achievement

5:18

George for Scott Parker, his

5:20

third promotion from the championship after

5:22

getting Fulham and Bournemouth up. And

5:24

to only concede 15 goals in 44

5:27

games. I haven't talked about it before, but

5:29

it's mad. That was a totally ridiculous

5:31

statistic. Yeah, it's crazy. You know,

5:33

it's helped by the fact that they've got, in

5:35

James Trafford, a goalkeeper who, you've

5:37

got to hope this is his last time he's going

5:39

to play outside the Premier League, like he's someone who

5:41

I expect will be Jordan Pickford's successor in terms of

5:43

being England's number one. But not only

5:45

has he had a very good season, but the defence

5:47

in front of him have been fantastic as well. They

5:50

are. a very well -drilled defensive unit.

5:52

And for periods of this season, they've

5:54

struggled to pick up wins because their attacking

5:56

output was relatively poor. But the addition

5:58

of Marcus Edwards in January has changed that.

6:01

And since the January window closed, they've been rampant

6:03

in terms of what they've been able to do

6:05

from an attacking standpoint. And Josh Brownhill, 16

6:07

goals for the season now playing an

6:09

attack midfield role. Two goals, the two decisive

6:11

goals yesterday against Sheffield United to send

6:14

them up. I do think there's some scar

6:16

tissue with Scott Parker and his relegations

6:18

from the Premier League or at least you

6:20

know, his sackings from teams who ended up

6:22

being relegated from the Premier League where, you

6:24

know, they've been so poor from a defensive

6:26

perspective. I think he's very, very keen to

6:28

take a side up into the Premier League

6:30

who have some kind of defensive solidity because

6:32

that is... you know, going to be the

6:34

means to try and do what no team

6:36

has managed to do this season and actually

6:38

stay in the Premier League having been promoted.

6:41

The issue he's going to have is in terms

6:43

of personnel, whether or not they can keep Trafford,

6:45

CJ Egan -Ridley, Estev,

6:47

you know, these are players who are

6:49

young, have proven themselves to championship level

6:51

and will be very attractive to other

6:54

clubs. But yeah, an amazing bit of

6:56

him to achieve promotion three times, often

6:58

I think is the case with Kieran

7:00

McKenna at the moment. managers

7:02

can achieve good things in the championship or

7:04

in the EFL and that their reputation is

7:06

done harm by not performing miracles in the

7:09

Premier League. And that kind of feels like

7:11

it's the case with Parker a little bit

7:13

where he's judged off the back of a

7:15

few relatively poor spells or, you know, very

7:17

poor spells and charged Premier League clubs when

7:19

kind of swimming against the tide and what

7:21

he's achieved in the championship is often forgotten.

7:24

But, you know, it feels like there

7:26

are a couple, him, Daniel Farke, guys

7:28

who are specialists now are getting teams

7:30

out of the championship. George, can you

7:32

just run us through the Burnley back

7:35

four for our Premier League only listeners?

7:37

Yeah, of course. So, yeah, James Trafford

7:39

is, you know, the one who, you

7:41

know, as I say, is the kind

7:43

of the goalkeeper who is... I anticipate,

7:45

you know, he's already in England squads

7:47

now and I'm sure will continue to

7:49

be and, you know, should as and

7:51

when they're a Premier League side, I

7:53

think we'll get that number one shirt

7:55

pretty regularly. Connor Roberts is the right

7:57

back who is... a really good attacking

7:59

well he's very good attacking championship fullback

8:01

he's one of those where you wonder

8:03

if he's going to be able to

8:05

step up necessarily well to the Premier

8:07

League as we've seen in the past.

8:09

Maxime Estève is the one who I

8:11

think has really proven himself this season

8:13

he was signed such an impressive signing

8:15

from Montpellier you know played last season

8:17

the Premier League but in that you

8:19

know very poor Burnley side under Vincent

8:21

Company but has been kind of the

8:23

rock at the back for Burnley under

8:25

Scott Parker CJ Egan

8:27

Riley, who is in England under 21 international,

8:30

who came through at Man City has

8:32

been so impressive. You know, his

8:34

versatile can play right back or centre

8:36

back. But again, alongside Asterv has

8:38

been really, really impressive. Then Lucas Perez

8:40

is the left back who was

8:42

brought in from Cadiz in the summer.

8:45

So yeah, in Perez and Asterv, they kind

8:47

of found two absolute gems there who've

8:49

settled in really well into a rock

8:51

solid back five. But as I say, you

8:54

know, what will that defensive

8:56

unit look like for Burnley next

8:59

season for two reasons one because

9:01

those players will be or some

9:03

of them certainly a Steph Egan

9:05

Riley Perez and and Trafford will

9:07

be have their own suitors but

9:09

also because teams getting promoted out

9:11

of the championship really

9:13

should be investing in Premier League defenders. And it's those

9:16

who don't do that, who often can't start. Makes it sound

9:18

like Paul Conorovitz will be just there on his own. He'll

9:20

be there. Where we all

9:22

gone? Sadly, as for Sheffield

9:24

United, such a time to fall off,

9:27

lost four in five, including defeats to

9:29

Oxford, Millwall and Plymouth. OK, Millwall

9:31

are just about pushing for the playoffs.

9:33

But what has happened? It's

9:35

a very strange one, kind of epitomised

9:37

as well at full time, where... basically

9:39

just got a bit in a bit

9:41

of a rock on the pitch. Hamza

9:44

Choudhury won, I think had to be hauled away.

9:46

I know it's really strange really because I

9:49

mean the record for Sheffield United in the

9:51

playoffs is really bad. They've never got through

9:53

it and it's all about peeking at the

9:55

right moment, isn't it? And a couple of

9:57

weeks ago Chris Wilder, he takes so much

9:59

on him, you know, he's such a big

10:01

character and personality. We see much more of

10:03

him than we see Scott Parker, for example. And

10:06

it felt like they were all going in the right direction, but

10:08

I guess If you peek too soon, it

10:10

all kind of comes apart. I don't know, it's

10:12

really strange. I don't know how much it has

10:14

to do with the reliance on individuals and then

10:16

those not coming to the fore. I mean, Gus

10:18

Harmer's been amazing this season, but you can't rely

10:21

on one player, can you? But equally, I think

10:23

we don't want to take away from Burnley and

10:25

Leeds because they've both been excellent. I mean, Sheffey

10:27

Knight does all remember had a points deduction

10:29

and for a while they would have been top

10:31

without that deduction. But

10:34

yeah, out of all of this. Burnley

10:36

and Leeds have been unstoppable. I mean, Burnley's

10:38

defence is incredible. The clean sheet record

10:40

is mad. Was that what, 30 games unbeaten?

10:42

Was that the Burnley win or was

10:44

it 31 now? I've kind of lost track

10:46

of it all now. So, yeah, as

10:48

much as Sheffield United have fallen off, you've

10:50

got to give credit to Leeds and

10:52

Burnley. Quinn says, could Raphinha

10:54

get into this Leeds side? I mean,

10:56

they do, George. They do have

10:58

lots of exciting attacking talent, George. They

11:00

do. I mean, I always think

11:02

it's amazing how it feels like Daniel

11:04

Fark has taken this lead side

11:07

a step further than last season, despite

11:09

losing Crescencia Somerville and Georgina Ruta,

11:11

who, you know, I still think whether,

11:13

you know, the two outstanding individuals,

11:15

you know, Manusolomon's come in on loan

11:17

from Spurs. and look

11:19

like he could probably do a job for Spurs

11:21

to be honest. He's been very good on

11:23

the left hand side, a direct runner, a creative

11:26

player, good quality on the ball. Willy Nonto

11:28

has been a bit part player because Dan James

11:30

has been so good, but you know it's

11:32

not necessarily unlike Ruta who ended up being sold

11:34

for 40 million. The protagonists in this lead

11:36

side probably aren't that. Now Altonac is the one

11:38

you're looking at who's been a just a

11:40

really smart pickup in sentiment field, just a very

11:42

calm quality footballer and technician in the middle

11:44

of the park. It's

11:46

funny because, as is the way

11:48

these days, a football club and a

11:50

manager are kind of interchangeable. And

11:53

a lot of Leeds fans, you know, saying that

11:55

if Farke didn't take them up, then it was time

11:57

for him to go and there had been a

11:59

lot of question marks over him. But I think Farke

12:01

deserves immense credit for building this Leeds side here

12:03

over two seasons have been incredibly strong. You know, they

12:05

should have gone up last season and any normal

12:07

season they would have done, it was a poor performance

12:09

of Wembley. But apart from that, they were you

12:11

know, the quality they showed last season was normally enough

12:14

to get you up promoted automatically. And realistically, this

12:16

season, you know, shot themselves in the foot a couple

12:18

of times, it should have been done earlier. But

12:20

at their best, just at this level, no

12:22

one can live with them. George, he

12:24

touched on Parker's scar tissue. He took Fulham

12:26

up, took them straight back down, took

12:28

Poremouth up, got sacked after four

12:30

games, the four to which was a

12:32

nine -nil against Liverpool, in which he

12:34

tore into the, his

12:36

employers went to Club Brugge.

12:38

got sacked after a couple

12:40

of months. And then Farrick

12:42

got Norris promoted, took him

12:44

straight back down, took them

12:46

up again, and then got

12:48

sacked after losing 15 in

12:50

a row. What can they

12:52

do to try to ensure

12:54

this doesn't happen them again?

12:57

Resign? Well,

12:59

apart from that. But

13:01

I mean, there is, like we said it last

13:03

summer, like if Russell Martin, for his career, the

13:05

smartest thing he could have done after that Wembley final

13:07

was just to walk away. Just be like, I'm

13:09

not going to oversee this period at Southampton where we

13:11

are going to get beaten loads. And people are

13:13

going to look at what we're going to do and

13:15

say, oh, that Russell Martin, he's not up too

13:17

much. In a similar way, Keir and McKenna probably should

13:20

have taken the jobs that were available to him

13:22

last summer when it looked like he was being courted

13:24

by everybody. It is a massive

13:26

hiding to nothing. Like you are odds on,

13:28

like massive odds on for relegation on promotion.

13:30

It'll be interesting to see where the wrong

13:32

leads are because they are a bit of

13:34

a case onto their own in terms of

13:36

the way that they're kind of rated. by

13:39

auto compilers and the rest in terms

13:41

of being already probably better than most

13:43

promoted sides are. But generally, you know,

13:45

you're a massive odds on shot to

13:47

get to get relegated. And yet unless

13:49

you outperform that, unless you perform way

13:51

above where you probably should be, then

13:53

you're perceived as being a failure. Like

13:55

it's a hiding to nothing. I think

13:57

if you're, you know, basically a manager

13:59

these days should do whatever they can

14:01

not to manage or not to take

14:03

jobs aside to newly relegated out of

14:06

the championship, because even look at Yeah,

14:08

Steve Cooper and Nottingham Forest just perform

14:10

miracles to get Forest into the Premier

14:12

League himself and then did probably okay

14:14

in terms of the consolidation job that's

14:16

enabled them to have the platform to

14:18

go and do what they've done since.

14:20

But you know, it's not like his

14:22

reputation was enhanced by doing that. It's

14:24

an absolute hiding to nothing. What we'll

14:26

see from Burnley is, look, I've double

14:28

checked, it's 31 unbeaten and it's 29

14:30

clean sheets. So it's 15 goals they've

14:32

conceded all season and only those two

14:34

league defeats so this is different to

14:36

the vincent company bernie going back to

14:38

that to our only premier league only

14:41

fans that's that's that's a little bit

14:43

of a side journey for the premier

14:45

league do that you know in the

14:47

schools of thoughts of you know pet

14:49

ball or you know possession play this

14:51

is a side that is. Resolutely built

14:53

on being solid at the back. If

14:55

that team can't survive in the Premier

14:57

League, then you've got to think what

14:59

team can survive. You know, this is

15:01

a team that have been so difficult

15:03

to even score against. Sheffield United's goal

15:05

in the second half was the only

15:07

second goal. The only goal in the

15:09

second half they've had all season they've

15:11

conceded in this year over the nourishment

15:13

of a day. No one's

15:16

able to beat them. Like when the amount of

15:18

time has been coming Burnley this season and

15:20

after they get the first goal, you kind of

15:22

just start to zone out a bit because

15:24

they can just control the game as well. So

15:26

this Burnley side, if any team

15:28

is going to be able to show that

15:30

you can survive with a solid defense,

15:32

it's this, you know, and the cyclical nature

15:34

of football. Is it is it sammeledized

15:36

not quite, but they've definitely got that. strong

15:38

backline. And, you know, if they do

15:40

half as well in the top flight as

15:42

they have in the Premier League, in

15:44

the championship, then they'll give everyone

15:47

a run for their money because they

15:49

will be difficult to score against. I

15:51

think the lead swinger Ramizani, he deserves

15:53

the tip of the hat, by the

15:55

way, for still being in full kit

15:57

in the Lorimer suite. Ellen ruled

15:59

two and a half hours after his

16:01

game ended. He didn't need a shower,

16:03

did he? Yeah, probably

16:05

not. What am I gonna say, at the nightclub?

16:07

I mean, that's the real key. If you

16:09

get there. Well, he was wearing shades. Okay. There's

16:11

a point here as well, where I quite,

16:13

you know, sometimes you, a bit sad when... when

16:15

a team doesn't win promotion at a final

16:17

whistle, it's not when a title had a final

16:19

whistle, it's a bit like when a golfer

16:21

wins a major and they're kind of standing in

16:23

a hut having finished an hour earlier and

16:25

watching whatever happens. But actually yesterday was incredible because

16:28

what you just saw was leads fans all

16:30

just staying at Ellen Road and just absolutely packing

16:32

the streets around the stadium and probably all

16:34

watching on their phones or not even watching or

16:36

not really caring just waiting for needs to

16:38

come through. And the scenes, you know, when

16:40

the final whistle went and Burnley, the scenes that we

16:42

saw kind of around Ellen Road were absolutely incredible. It kind

16:44

of felt like probably quite a good

16:46

way to approach and win 6 -0, leave with your mates, have

16:48

a great afternoon and wait for the finalists a couple of

16:50

hours later. So good. And it wasn't like late, you know,

16:52

it was a 5 -30, so you still got the whole

16:54

evening, you know, you're off at 7 -30, plenty of time. Just

16:56

a quick one on Joel Pirro before we move on to

16:58

the playoffs. He'd gone ten without a goal, but he scored

17:01

four in the first half in this game against Stoke, top

17:03

scorer in the championship, 25 years

17:05

old, had a decent scoring record

17:07

at Swansea before Leeds. George,

17:09

you think he can make the leap? I've

17:13

got concerns, it kind of stinks to me

17:15

of a loan to Southampton in January or

17:17

something like that. He's

17:19

a very good technical footballer and his

17:21

finishing ability is undoubted. And I think he's

17:23

suited this lead side who creates a

17:26

lot and he's versatile enough to be able

17:28

to play as a 10 or as

17:30

a striker. you know,

17:32

maybe if Leeds are able to kind

17:34

of translate their style into the Premier

17:36

League, then he isn't the worst

17:38

option to have as a frontman, but

17:40

I think Leeds have to go out

17:42

and spend probably quite a lot of

17:45

money on one, two, three strikers and

17:47

consign, say thank you very much to

17:49

Joel Peru and Patrick Bamford for what

17:51

they've done, but probably move on past

17:53

them. You know, maybe Peru

17:55

will be there for a transition season, but I, you

17:57

know, he's He seems to me like the

18:00

kind of, you know, he's not a Victor

18:02

Yocarez or someone like that who's ceiling is

18:04

so high because their physical capabilities alongside their

18:06

goalscoring exploits. He's just a technically, you know,

18:08

he's better than the level in the championship.

18:10

He's a good finisher, but

18:12

I don't think he'll be getting much change out of Premier

18:14

League defenses. Ah, he's another

18:16

for the mezzanine. Sticking on both

18:18

Cameron, Jerome, mezzanine. Harry

18:21

Gray made his debut for you

18:23

yesterday. as well. Archie's

18:25

brother, Eddie's grandson. So

18:27

that was nice to see

18:29

the latest rolling off the Grey

18:32

Dynasty assembly line. I think

18:34

it's Eddie's great nephew. Well,

18:36

that's what I have in front of me now.

18:38

Frank Grey's grandson. So

18:40

yes, So What by Pink was

18:42

the number one single on the 8th

18:44

of October 2008 when he was

18:47

born. Anyway, that'll do for the top

18:49

three then. We'll do the playoffs

18:51

in the championship in part two. Welcome

19:01

to part two of the Guardian Football

19:03

Weekly. So the playoffs look like this.

19:05

Obviously, Sheffield United are in, Sunderland are in,

19:08

and then Bristol City are fifth on

19:10

66, they have 76 points Sunderland, Bristol

19:12

City have 67, Coventry 66, Middlesbrough 63, Millwall

19:15

63, Blackburn on 62.

19:17

I mean, could still make it, but

19:19

they were the only team to win

19:21

both their games over Easter from that

19:23

lot. Sunderland are still there, Baz.

19:25

Two defeats for these two weekend. Have you made up your

19:27

mind on whether you want to go up yet? I

19:29

mean, you've just heard what a hiding to nothing it is

19:31

for any manager. Yeah, I do.

19:33

Mickey Gray. Playoff

19:35

specialist Mickey Gray convinced me on Sunday

19:37

that going up, there's never, you

19:39

can't plan to go up. If you

19:41

go, just go up when you

19:43

can, which is what

19:45

Tony Mulberry said last season

19:47

as well. More of

19:50

Tony and on, I suspect. Sunderland

19:52

will finish fourth. They've lost

19:54

three games in a row since

19:56

confirming their place and the

19:58

playoffs, Regis Lebris has

20:01

gone a bit freestyle jazz

20:03

in his team selections. Joe

20:05

Anderson made his debut for

20:08

Sunderland at F back yesterday, 811

20:10

days after signing for them. And

20:13

he's been fielding, resting big players

20:15

fielding second string sides, so the

20:17

defeats aren't a support. prize but

20:19

there seems to be a feeling

20:21

among Sunderland fans that going into

20:23

the playoffs on a run of

20:25

defeat is not a good idea

20:27

but in Regis we trust and

20:30

he has said or he said

20:32

after yesterday's defeat that he will

20:34

spend the next two games he

20:36

will pick his strongest team try

20:38

and get a bit of momentum

20:40

going for the playoffs so they

20:42

will finish fourth they will be

20:44

at home in the second leg

20:46

of their playoffs semifinal and suppose

20:49

you give him as good a chance

20:51

as anyone else of winning. Sanny, do

20:54

you trust Regis Lebris? And if not,

20:56

which of the managers in the playoff

20:58

hunt do you trust? I actually think

21:00

he's on a good plan here because

21:02

they've qualified for the playoff so soon.

21:04

And they've got all that time to

21:06

rest players and regroup. Albeit, Sheffield United

21:09

now know the playoffs and therefore... I've

21:11

also got that same thing. I mean

21:13

Bristol City are a really strange one

21:15

because they were roundly dispatched by Luton

21:17

the other day and then I think

21:19

the goal difference is it's only like

21:21

eight so they're not really doing that

21:24

well and Coventry again have slipped up.

21:26

I mean Coventry's the one that I suppose The

21:30

broadcasters would like with Frank Lampard to

21:32

be involved, and he's got experience with Derby,

21:34

albeit it didn't quite end the way

21:36

he wanted to. But yeah,

21:38

it's a very much of a much of a

21:40

muchness outside of Shelf United and Sunderland, I

21:42

feel. The others have been pretty inconsistent this season.

21:44

I mean Middlesbrough... come back into it now. And

21:48

thin as ours, we've mentioned before, and the pod

21:50

seems to be backfiring in all cylinders. And then you've

21:52

got someone like Millwall, who just out of nowhere

21:54

can kind of sneak in. So yeah,

21:56

it's a bit of a bit of a strange

21:58

one really, but it's quite hard to pick out

22:00

of those because they're kind of very similar. But

22:03

what we do know is West Brom

22:05

pretty much won't be there. And they've

22:07

said goodbye to Tony Mowbray as well,

22:09

which is a sort of John Brewing.

22:11

So you can't buy class. But

22:13

equally, he's come in and in three

22:16

months they've, you know, it was a hard

22:18

act to follow replacing Carlos Corbran. But

22:20

yeah, they've completely fallen off and they need

22:22

six points to get into the playoffs

22:24

and they've only got two games to do

22:26

it, so it's pretty much not happening.

22:28

Yeah, what do you make of that, Mowbray?

22:30

I can understand from a performance perspective

22:32

why they've done it. I'm not entirely sure.

22:34

If you're looking to replace Carlos Corbran

22:36

with someone who can get you over the

22:38

line in a short sharp kind

22:40

of way, then I'm not entirely sure

22:42

why they appointed Mowbray in the first place.

22:45

Like Corbran is a tactician, he's kind

22:47

of very much an arms -length kind of

22:49

guy with his players, pragmatist, whereas

22:51

they then went and appointed kind of an

22:53

ideologist in Mowbray who is very much

22:55

an arm around the shoulder, attacking football, youth

22:57

development. He's definitely not someone

22:59

that you bring in for a three or four

23:02

month period in order to kind of steady a

23:04

ship, so it just feels like really bad appointment

23:06

now. You know, obviously there was a he

23:08

has a massive affinity towards the club

23:10

and was a very popular appointment when it

23:12

was made but that's not a reason

23:14

to appoint someone. I'm a huge Tony Mobray

23:17

fan and I can't really understand why

23:19

they turned to him if what they were

23:21

after was someone to just to do

23:23

a short -term job but you know they're

23:25

not playing particularly well the recent performances

23:27

have been pretty poor and I guess you

23:29

pay for your job with that but

23:31

yeah it's a shame and I really

23:33

hope we see Mobray back in the dugout

23:36

relatively soon because he's got a lot

23:38

to offer. Yeah, I think he's the

23:40

fact he came into the job having recovered

23:42

from a very serious life -threatening illness means

23:44

he gets extra sympathy and he's an

23:46

incredibly popular man. But I did a

23:48

talk before we came on air this morning.

23:51

14 different championship clubs changed

23:53

their manager this season.

23:55

Two of them, Cardiff and

23:57

West Brom, have got

23:59

rid of managers. I'm just

24:01

wondering, our chairman

24:03

in that Division a bit

24:06

too hasty when it comes to

24:08

pulling the trigger, or would

24:10

most of those dismissals changes have

24:12

been sort of the right

24:14

thing to do at the time?

24:16

I think that across football, you

24:19

know, owners are too hasty to set managers.

24:21

And I think there is some evidence now, like

24:23

whether it's Leeds and Daniel Farke, where, you

24:25

know, some Leeds fans would have had you think

24:27

that maybe he should have been showing the

24:30

door at the end of last season in League

24:32

two, which we'll get on to. you know,

24:34

whether it's McCann at Doncaster, who got off to

24:36

a really poor start in the second spell

24:38

there, Matt Sadler at Walsall, who, you know, had

24:40

a middling first season, Johnny Jackson at the

24:42

same F Swimbledon. I think there's

24:44

growing evidence now that if you

24:46

invest time in a manager and you

24:48

ride out the bad spell, then

24:50

things can often right themselves and you

24:52

can benefit from that. But

24:55

the stakes are now so high and the

24:57

culture within the game is, you know, we just

24:59

accept there's this kind of acceptance they're like

25:01

oh you've lost three games well you know you

25:03

should get sat then and you should roll

25:05

the dice and there's also kind of an acceptance

25:07

that there's a new manager bounce that Realistically,

25:10

I think it's only two of the last 14.

25:12

I have to check this. Two of the last

25:14

14 managers have been sat in the championship. The

25:16

club has gone on to win their next game.

25:18

The new manager bounces a myth. It's just sometimes,

25:20

you know, luck goes your way after a luckless

25:22

spell. Sometimes performances can have a

25:25

small uptick or they can have a downturn.

25:27

Some of the managerial changes have been justified.

25:29

You know, certainly the club I support, Gary

25:31

Rower, coming in for Des Buckingham, you

25:33

know, massively increased our chances of staying

25:35

up. But you know, when transfer windows are

25:37

closed and you're staring down the barrel

25:39

of relegation, there's only one thing you can

25:41

change in that sack in the manager.

25:43

And I wish there was a way to

25:45

change that because it just seems a

25:47

very cutthroat way to just churn through people

25:49

who are trying to, you know, who

25:51

maybe don't deserve to just immediately lose their

25:53

job, even if they are pretty well

25:56

compensated for it in the most part. It

25:58

doesn't always write itself. See

26:00

Gary Monk came with United who we

26:02

may have hung on to for a

26:04

little bit too long. But anyway, Sanny.

26:06

Well, I would say Barry is Tate

26:08

Norwich, who had Johannes Hof Torrep since

26:10

the start the season. And they are

26:12

the division's second highest scorer. They like

26:15

just pile all the goals into individual

26:17

games. And they are fourteenth. this season

26:19

with a whole difference of plus one

26:21

and have been like so all over

26:23

the place. I saw them against Berlin.

26:25

He would just like completely just a

26:27

nothing side for most of the game

26:29

and managed to get a corner in

26:31

a second half to pull themselves back

26:33

in. So if so many clubs are

26:35

at a similar level, right? And the

26:37

difference between them isn't that great, which

26:40

is why the championship can be so

26:42

entertaining because yeah, anyone can beat anyone.

26:44

Then yeah, as George mentioned, we're Oxford

26:46

United. If you might not get

26:48

a new manager bounce, but if the new

26:50

manager can just change things ever so slightly and

26:52

it gives you on a bit of a

26:54

run, then you can get right back up there

26:56

because I reckon if Norwich had, sorry Johannes,

26:58

but if they had sacked him a bit earlier

27:00

on, they had the tools there to give

27:02

themselves a fighting chance because in Josh Sargent you've

27:04

got someone who had, it's got 15 goals

27:06

this season and Borger Science although he's been a

27:08

bit hot and cold, there's 17. So

27:10

you had the goals, but

27:12

the defenders have been abjects and you think, well...

27:14

if we'd have got someone else in, they might

27:16

have been able to switch things up. But they

27:19

might have also been worse. Well, that's

27:21

football, isn't it? And

27:23

next season, Norwich might be brilliant under

27:25

him. They've appointed him for a reason,

27:27

and it's his first season in English

27:29

football. You've just got to have a

27:31

longer term... If you're as a director

27:33

of football or an owner, if you're

27:35

a tropic and changing managers... or three

27:37

times a season. That's your failing, not

27:39

the manager's failing. It means you are

27:41

unable to find a process to appoint

27:43

someone to manage your club who you

27:45

see as doing a good job. you

27:48

know, eventually, it's going to come back and buy

27:50

you. Well, Norwich have won one of the last

27:52

10. So, you know, it's not been great so

27:54

You hate this poor, you hate all your Hannas,

27:56

Sammy. We'll find out next year, won't we? And

27:58

let's hope he stays just so can do the

28:00

experiment. Coventry play Middlesbrough, last game

28:03

of the season, which could be a

28:05

decider who gets in the playoffs. So

28:07

some classic, picked a

28:09

lot for England versus not picked

28:11

enough for England in Frank Lampard versus

28:13

Michael Carrick. They're, let's do the relegation.

28:15

I mean, was an amazing day at the bottom. At

28:18

one point, all four of the bottom sides

28:20

were winning, I think. I mean, you're an Oxford

28:22

fan, George. You were saying, like, at one

28:24

point, the results were all just, like, perfect for

28:26

you, and then they all just went to

28:28

shit, basically, for you. Yeah, it was mad. At

28:30

half time, if all the were

28:32

the same, we were basically up. And then

28:34

straight after half time, Hal equalised, Luton

28:36

went ahead, and we conceded, and then suddenly

28:38

we were staring down the barrel. Like,

28:40

that's how close it all is. You've

28:43

got to feel for our guile in

28:45

the most part, who've picked up you

28:47

know so the wins it picked up

28:49

in recent weeks if you told their

28:51

fans three weeks ago that they'd be

28:53

on 43 points or two games ago

28:55

they'd have thought they had a massive

28:57

chance of staying up because teams above

28:59

them Luton Darby are in such good

29:01

form it's going to be pretty hard

29:03

for them to wrestle their way out

29:06

of it and that's been the story

29:08

of it you know I it looked

29:10

like mid 40s was going to be

29:12

enough to stay up a couple of

29:14

a couple of weeks ago but or

29:16

even a month or so ago, but

29:18

because certainly Luton under Matt Bloomfield and

29:20

Darby Under and John Eustace have put

29:22

in performances now that have everyone worried.

29:24

You know, even Oxford, who were sitting

29:26

on 49 points, thanks to a ridiculous

29:28

draw yesterday away at Cardiff, where Aaron

29:30

Ramsey's first performance as a Cardiff manager,

29:32

they were good. They were by far

29:35

the better side and Oxford only had

29:37

one shot. of note in the whole

29:39

game, which was a 40 yard free kick from Cameron Branigan

29:41

that flew into the top. Unbelievable goal. You're going

29:43

to have one shot. Make it that one, I guess. My

29:45

wife came in, I was watching it, and my wife came

29:47

in the room and asked what had happened. And I said,

29:49

we scored. And she said, oh, I thought a bird had

29:51

got in the house. I don't

29:53

know what kind of noise it's like. But

29:56

yeah, and it's going to go down

29:58

to the Y. I mean, there's a huge

30:00

game on Saturday with Derby playing Hull. And

30:03

the good news for... fans and Oxford

30:05

fans Ricardo fans that means one of

30:07

those teams has to drop points and

30:09

there's a fair chance that both of

30:11

those teams drop points and it does

30:14

kind of feel like that's going to

30:16

be a deciding factor on in this

30:18

relegation scrap as is Luton hosting Coventry

30:20

at 12 30 on Saturday and that's

30:22

huge because if Coventry can win that

30:24

game then Oxford's Hal Derby can go

30:26

into their three o 'clock games in

30:29

a much safer position. However, if Luton

30:31

win that then it's going to be

30:33

Nervy It was funny when you just

30:35

said, you know, at some point in the season, you

30:37

thought mid -40s would be enough to stay up. Having

30:39

just turned 46, it's depressing now

30:41

to be at age where you could

30:43

stay up in the championship, you

30:45

know. For so many years, I was

30:47

definitely relegation fodder, but now... You're

30:50

all right. I'm mid -table. You're

30:53

above Preston, mate. I'm pushing for the

30:55

playoffs. So

30:57

who do you think might... I mean,

30:59

Luton, it's amazing that Luton are down there,

31:01

but it would be amazing now if

31:03

they stay up, right? It would

31:05

be. I think Matt Bloomfield, I mean, it

31:08

felt for the longest time. He was the

31:10

right man for the wrong time. He had

31:12

that time at Wickham to build aside and

31:14

a completely different style of football to what

31:16

was being played there before, but especially listening

31:18

to players post -match as well and how

31:20

they reacted. Carl Morris getting a goal for

31:23

the first time in a really long time.

31:25

They really did seem to have got it

31:27

all. back together and i know the the

31:29

lute and fans previously have been a some

31:31

have been a little bit toxic in in

31:33

how they've been feeling about how things are

31:35

going but you know about momentum up momentum

31:37

before a free one win against bristol city

31:40

who are in the playoff uh hunt and

31:42

um they would they were just great so

31:44

i actually think they've got it all going

31:46

their way now i kind of it's funny

31:48

because i kind of hope they stay up

31:50

because they as we said before like If

31:53

if Luton were the one club that

31:55

went to the Premier League and weren't silly

31:57

right and they've reinvested that Parachute payment

31:59

money in the Premier League money in a

32:01

new stadium to the infrastructure They're doing

32:03

everything properly right so to then end up

32:05

in League one Season after you go

32:07

down. We're just kind of like well. Let's

32:10

not let's nobody do that So I

32:12

think Luton are doing a great job off

32:14

the pitch so kind of need

32:16

them to stay up just to prove that

32:18

it can be done. And of course, if

32:20

they do stay up and they haven't used

32:22

all that parachute money towards the stadium, then

32:24

they've got a good springboard and a good

32:26

manager to get them maybe challenging up the

32:28

table next season. But yeah, they've got to

32:30

actually survive first. And that's, that's going to

32:32

be very difficult to start with anyway. I

32:34

mean, you can't more than seven this season

32:36

out of bios with so many opportunities for

32:38

Luton. And that's the other thing. It's not

32:40

that they've been playing really badly. It's like

32:42

they seem to be missing so many chances,

32:44

like it's almost a statistical freak, the amount

32:46

of chance opportunities Elijah had a bio is

32:48

missed compared to last season, the Premier League,

32:50

where we kind of saw, I think, 13,

32:52

you know, it's around that number. He

32:55

had a great time in the Premier

32:57

League. He hasn't come together this season. But

32:59

yeah, I think they've got the tools

33:01

in the right place to do an OK

33:03

job and survive. Just a hello to

33:05

Larry, who asked us whether Luton could survive.

33:08

He says, I'm from Zimbabwe. We're really

33:10

hoping so because our national captain, Marvellous Nakamba,

33:12

plays there. So hello to all our

33:14

Zimbabwe listeners. Yes, Barry? Well, it hasn't gone

33:16

unnoticed as well that the curse of

33:18

Aaron Ramsey struck again as he made his

33:20

first three into management. clear,

33:23

obviously famous for killing off

33:25

celebrities such as Nancy Reagan,

33:27

Roger Moore, Bruce Forsythe, Osama

33:29

Ban Layden, and yesterday he

33:31

killed the Pope. Sorry,

33:36

I'm making it sound like I'm happy the

33:38

Pope is dead. I'm not. No, you're right. He

33:41

seemed like a good Pope. I also liked... As

33:43

Pope's goal. I was trying to work out who Osama

33:45

bin Laden was the first time you pronounced it,

33:47

but, you know, I got it in

33:49

the end. Anyway, that'll do for part

33:51

two. Part three will do at Leagues One

33:53

and League Two. Welcome

34:03

to part three of the Guardian

34:05

Football Weekly. So Top of League

34:07

one then, automatic promotion. Birmingham champions,

34:09

99 points. Four games

34:11

to go for them as well. Wrexham

34:13

are now in second. 86

34:15

from 44, Wickham 84 from

34:17

44 and Charlton 82 from

34:19

44. And that mainly

34:22

comes about, Stanley, from Charlton going

34:24

to Wickham and absolutely hammering them 4

34:26

-0. Absolutely relentless. It's

34:28

just brilliant and some really good goals. I

34:30

mean, Matt Godden is one that's been great

34:32

this season for them now, or at least

34:34

in this running. And yeah, they

34:36

kind of look at the team that are going to do it now. And

34:39

it's for the longest time, it's kind of

34:41

benefited them, I think, that There's

34:43

been all this attention elsewhere. Obviously, you've

34:45

got the Birmingham City story, the

34:47

Wrexham story. I mean, Stopport County, I'm

34:49

sure we'll mention and what Dave

34:51

Chalon has achieved. But yeah, having

34:53

seen them quite recently

34:56

against Birmingham and Nathan

34:58

Jones, the thing about Nathan

35:00

Jones, he's able to mix it up, isn't

35:02

he? Because once he's got them all on

35:04

side, now he's got them stopping to go

35:06

to Bluewater or whatever and focusing on playing

35:08

and, you know, sitting still in between matches.

35:11

He's got that bit where he can tell him just

35:13

to, you know, start chugging the opposition and, you

35:15

know, be a bit nasty. But he's

35:17

also got the players to do a really good job

35:19

as well. So, yeah, Charlton, I think, have done

35:21

brilliantly. So they are, what, fourth now? And, yeah, I

35:23

think producer Joe will be very happy if it

35:25

stays like this, won't he? Yeah, he will. Great guy

35:27

from Luke Berry, who I remember from his Cambridge

35:30

days. He was playing in the Premier League with Luton

35:32

last year. So, you know, that is, you know,

35:34

you're signing players of some quality. I mean, obviously, Birmingham

35:36

have done a lot of that. Wrecks

35:38

him now in the box seat, George, for

35:40

second. Do you think they'll do it? I

35:42

mean, they're likely to do it, but it

35:44

all comes down to this massive game on

35:46

Saturday, where Nathan Jones travels back to Wales

35:48

and takes his Charlton side to Wrexham. And

35:50

I kind of, I fancy Charlton to at

35:52

least get something out of that game. Wrexham

35:55

have morphed a little bit from being

35:57

this last season in League two, they

35:59

were kind of the entertainers, especially at

36:02

home. They had these crazy games, 5

36:04

-3s, 5 -alls. It

36:06

was all very unfilled Parkinson. And,

36:08

you know, as According to league

36:11

one and therefore their their riches are slightly

36:13

less rich You know where they're still able

36:15

to you know the one of the biggest

36:17

vendors in the league But by no means

36:19

to the extent they were in league two

36:21

We've seen them adopt much more of what

36:23

we expect from a Phil Parkinson side. They

36:25

are relatively direct They are very good defensively

36:27

They don't offer loads going forward But it's

36:30

normally enough to get them buying games and

36:32

it's a pretty good recipe for success But

36:34

up against the Charlton side who defensively is

36:36

so strong and so you know, it kind

36:38

of feels to me the moment that there

36:40

are similarities between the way that these two

36:42

sides play, but maybe Charlton are doing a

36:44

bit better. There was a

36:46

kind of an alarming stat around Wrexham, where

36:49

if you took out the game against Burton,

36:51

where they won 3 -0, Burton had a

36:53

man sent off after 10 minutes. In

36:55

their previous 10 games, they were averaging eight

36:57

shots per game, which was lower than the average

36:59

per 90 shot count for any team in

37:01

League One, including Shrewsbury, who are down towards the

37:03

bottom. They are not creating very many

37:05

chances. that

37:07

I think it could be where they come on

37:09

to start. It was a massive win for them

37:11

at Blackpool and that incredible scenes in the away

37:14

end in that one with James McLean scoring the

37:16

first and Rathbone getting the second. But

37:19

it wouldn't shock me if Charlton do

37:21

go there and win on Saturday. And if

37:23

that is the case, then it'll be

37:25

all eyes on final day. Yeah, I've watched

37:27

them at Cambridge not too long ago,

37:29

and it was a 2 -2 draw, and

37:31

they didn't look, apart from going, oh, look,

37:33

that's him. Oh, there's another old guy

37:35

who I remember from the Premier League 35

37:37

years ago. They didn't impress

37:39

me that much, you know, and

37:42

we are no great shakes. Birmingham

37:44

had chased down Wolves' record

37:46

in 2013 -14 of 103

37:48

points. That's the record

37:50

since League One became League One

37:53

and was not Division Two and

37:55

then Division Three previously. So

37:57

Birmingham, four points behind that with four

37:59

left to play, so they should do

38:01

it. Perhaps the greatest league one team

38:04

ever. Sammy, if that is a, is

38:06

that an accolade for someone? Going

38:10

through those stats then, like, there's no material

38:12

difference between division two and league one, right?

38:14

This isn't like Premier League when there was

38:16

more teams to come out of division one.

38:18

It's just a name change, right? So,

38:21

um, yeah, I mean, they've been,

38:23

they've been, they have been great. And yet they've got the

38:25

players that I've met. They can do that. And Chris Davis, what,

38:27

what they did do when. When

38:30

they got relegated and brought in Chris

38:32

Davis, what they did do is a

38:34

point of manager who was like really

38:36

well respected as a coach and you

38:38

know, I'd done, it was Andrew Postercoglu's

38:40

coaching staff as well. And it also

38:42

worked with Brendan Rodgers at Leicester and Celtic.

38:45

So he had a lot of pedigree

38:47

and backing him has meant like the

38:49

younger players they've got, I think I've got

38:51

a lot of room to go and

38:53

the, you know, the investment. And that's

38:55

what it is in Jay Stansfield at

38:57

15 million, a lot of talk on that.

38:59

But it does mean they've got someone

39:01

already who's equipped to go up the

39:03

levels. As opposed to, by the

39:05

way, Rex and we've got the second

39:07

oldest squad in the division. I think they

39:09

would need to outside of the goalkeeper

39:11

and Max Kluwiff in defense. I think they've

39:14

got a bit of work to do.

39:16

But can I mention Stopport County grudgingly as

39:18

a as a Berry fan? Please. Dave

39:20

Chaliner, the club tweeted it as well, across

39:22

six different divisions and 14 full seasons.

39:24

He's never finished lower than the playoffs, which

39:26

is just an incredible achievement. I mean,

39:28

Stopport County, remember, essentially

39:30

dropped down from the championship into the

39:32

National League North at one point. They

39:34

were completely, you know,

39:36

in a tailspin. They got a

39:38

local investment, I suppose, a local businessman,

39:40

done good. So there is money in

39:42

there, but it's been spent wisely. And

39:45

it's one of those things where

39:47

you keep the momentum up and you

39:49

never know where you can go.

39:51

And they've invested in stuff like fan

39:53

parks and all that sort of

39:55

stuff. And they've got an exciting

39:57

team. When Louis Barry left back to Villarin and

39:59

went out again, you kind of thought, well,

40:01

is this going to be the end of it?

40:03

Is it all Louis Barry powered? But actually, Chalena's

40:06

proved what a good manager he is

40:08

as well. So they could be going on

40:10

the way up back again, which would be

40:12

an amazing story, which hasn't really got the

40:14

publicity because of everyone else around them. But

40:17

he's done a great thing there. Dave Chalena.

40:19

One in the eye for all those

40:21

who thought. The only trick he

40:23

had in his locker was as long as

40:25

a rule. He's no handy leg. Let's face

40:27

it. So, yeah, Stockport fifth, 81 points, one

40:29

point behind Charlton. Then you've got Layton Orient

40:31

and Reading on 72. So, barring some sort

40:33

of miracle, those two will

40:35

be... the sides left in. Layton

40:38

Orient were won down at the

40:40

mighty Cambridge before a very lucky

40:42

victory. Another unlucky defeat

40:44

for us. Jamie Donnelly, who scored

40:46

that great goal against Man City, he

40:48

scored another brilliant goal for it.

40:50

On loan from Spurs and is too

40:52

good for League 1, I reckon. So

40:56

who makes it in, George? Do you

40:58

reckon? And actually, more importantly, Reading, what

41:01

is the latest with them? And given everything

41:03

that's happened off the pitch, Is

41:05

it amazing that they're in this in contention or

41:07

is their squad actually on the pitch good

41:09

enough to be where they are? It's pretty amazing.

41:12

I think when you consider all the

41:14

off -field issues, when you consider how much

41:16

academy talent they've had to bring into

41:18

the first team who have, you know,

41:20

flourished effectively to the extent that Tyler

41:22

Bindon secured himself a Premier League move

41:24

to Nottingham Forest before being loaned back

41:26

for the rest of the season, losing

41:30

Ruben Seyes, their manager halfway

41:32

through the season to Hull,

41:34

losing Sam Smith, their kind

41:37

of talismanic frontman to Rexham

41:39

as well, and hasn't arreled

41:41

them. You know, I think Noel Hunt and his

41:43

team have done incredibly well. Like, there are

41:45

massive red flags in the underlying numbers. They are

41:47

one of these teams where they just seem

41:49

to laugh in the face of XG and everything

41:51

else. But with two games

41:53

to go this season, it doesn't really matter now. kind

41:56

of performance in the result that we saw yesterday. And

41:58

unbelievable go from Lewis Wing, who, you know, I always

42:00

had him pecked as a bit of a kind of

42:02

one trick pony where he would just shoot from 30

42:04

yards consistently. But this season he shot from 30 yards

42:06

consistently, score consistently and also been

42:08

very creative and been really good at breaking,

42:10

breaking down play. He's been an unbelievable player

42:12

for them. Whether or not they can get

42:14

over the line, you know, we'll

42:16

have to see the good news is

42:19

there was, you know, there was kind of

42:21

serious concerns a few weeks ago as

42:23

to whether or not you know, they would

42:25

even exist long enough to take part

42:27

in the playoffs should they get. It feels

42:29

like the kind of imminent existential fears

42:31

at one side of the moment feels like

42:34

there is the chance that Rob Kuig,

42:36

who is of course the kind of prospective

42:38

owner who they were then embroiled in

42:40

this legal battle with. you

42:42

know, maybe there's a chance that that could be back

42:44

on the table. It's all kind of conjecture at the

42:46

moment. And, you know, I think it was a redding

42:48

fan. It's difficult because you've got one eye on on

42:50

hoping you can break into the playoffs and get it

42:52

back in the championship and another eye on making sure

42:54

the club still exists going forward. The good news for

42:56

them is already have a really tricky run in their

42:59

home to Wickham. Next up on

43:01

a way at Huddersfield on final day, Huddersfield obviously

43:03

not playing particularly well. So maybe that isn't as

43:05

hard as it would have looked a few weeks

43:07

ago. Reading on the other hand, they go away

43:09

to Bristol Rovers, who I'm in

43:11

the relegation zone at the moment. So it's one

43:13

of those where it looks like it's again, they should

43:15

win. But also Rovers obviously fighting for their lives.

43:17

And then host Bancy on final day who under Conahara

43:19

and aren't having a great time with things. So

43:22

it's going to be tight between the two of them.

43:24

But yeah, I mean, if Redding do pull this

43:26

off, it will be be some story given what's

43:28

what everyone in the club has had to go

43:31

through over the last couple of years. At

43:33

the bottom, Shrewsbury relegated 30 points.

43:35

Cambridge are second bottom 38. Crawley

43:38

40, Bristol Rovers 43,

43:40

Burton 43. It's

43:42

sad. But Shrewsbury are down.

43:45

Garethane's were turned up, Sanny, a few months

43:47

ago, and then left. What happened then? I

43:50

think they'd hired him knowing that they'd

43:53

only give him a deal till the end

43:55

of the season and see what he

43:57

could do. So I'm gilling him. We've got

43:59

some solid investment behind them, offered him

44:01

a lot more security. And I guess You're

44:03

only limited in read a shelf life

44:05

as a manager, aren't you? I guess that

44:08

was the justification for it, but it wasn't

44:10

the greatest thing anyone could have done. I

44:12

mean, they haven't won since February. It's been

44:14

pretty depressing all around, but I don't know

44:16

how much investment they've made in the squad

44:18

this season at all. It just kind of

44:20

feels like they've kind of just, I

44:22

wouldn't say like they've waved the white flag,

44:24

but they've not really backed. the

44:27

squad building. I mean, they've gone for a

44:29

couple of managers now and a couple of

44:31

different ideas. And Gareth Ainsworth was kind of

44:33

like the trouble shooter one with the vibes.

44:35

And when he beat Birmingham City, having his

44:37

first game in charge, it looks really positive.

44:39

But yeah, you can't, I don't think it

44:42

can come down to one thing in particular,

44:44

but it's been pretty depressing. And

44:46

yeah, they've got a kind of, sometimes there

44:48

are teams that come down and, you know, they're

44:51

going to bounce back up and other teams,

44:53

you really worry for them. I'm a bit worried

44:55

for Shrewsbury Town, actually. Cambridge are 23rd. We

44:57

won at Huddersfield on Friday, gave us hope. We

44:59

took the leading escalating orient for even more

45:01

hope. We're still not down, George. We just need

45:03

Burton, Bruce Rovers and Crawley to pick up

45:05

no points in the next two and beat Burton

45:08

and then beat Birmingham. Can we

45:10

do that? Easy. Well, at least at least

45:12

you're playing one of the teams you need

45:14

to drop points. That helps. Birmingham

45:16

will final day, I guess could be.

45:18

I'm not sure it does help. I

45:21

think it would be better

45:23

if someone else was playing

45:25

them. I

45:27

think it's pretty unlikely at this stage. You

45:29

know, it felt like when you're 1 -0 up

45:31

against against Orient, like there was a chance. But

45:34

that sadly didn't last. It

45:36

does feel like the club, you

45:38

know, Sanny. spoke there about Shrewsbury and

45:41

I totally agree. I really fear

45:43

for them. The owner,

45:45

the fan base and I think Gareth Ainsworth

45:47

were under the impression that there was going

45:49

to be a takeover from an American businessman

45:51

that fell through. There's a real

45:53

need for investment. in that football club

45:55

that is, at the moment, not

45:57

forthcoming. And if they don't get that,

45:59

then I could definitely see them doing a Carlisle

46:01

or doing a Skunpop, as we say, and being

46:03

a team that immediately are in a relegation battle

46:05

in league two and could drop into the national

46:07

league. But yeah, with Cambridge, it feels like at

46:09

least with Mark Bonner and Neil Harris there. You

46:12

know, you've got some canny operators who

46:14

know the club relatively well. And I'd be

46:16

surprised if Cambridge were to make that

46:18

back to back. But you can come and

46:20

blame me, Max, when it happens. No,

46:22

we'll bounce back straight up. Sanny, can we

46:25

talk about Joe Thompson before we talk

46:27

about League 2, former Rochdale midfielder, who's passed

46:29

away at the age of 36. Rochdale

46:31

said they were devastated after hearing that he'd

46:33

passed away peacefully at his home on

46:35

Thursday with his family by his side. We

46:37

first knew Joe primarily as a talented

46:39

footballer. We'd soon grow to adore his loving

46:41

infectious personality. The club said he faced

46:43

every battle head on, both on and off

46:46

the pitch, his journey An indomitable spirit

46:48

have been an inspiration for everyone who's been

46:50

touched by his story above all of

46:52

that. Joe was a loving husband to Chantel,

46:54

incredible father to Tallulah and Athena Ray. You

46:57

knew him, Sanny. Yeah, Joe was a really

46:59

good friend and we did a radio show

47:01

together for two and a half years. In

47:04

fact, I wouldn't be with you now if

47:06

it wasn't for that show and it wouldn't

47:08

be where I am if it wasn't for

47:10

Joe. I think the funny thing with Joe,

47:12

because I had a different route into broadcasting.

47:14

So Joe was actually one of the first

47:16

kind of footballs I really had a good

47:18

chat with. And I kind of thought all

47:20

footballers were like him. But actually, it turns

47:22

out he was pretty unique. I mean, he

47:25

started at Man United. was let go.

47:27

He had one of those hand -scan

47:29

prints when he was 16. And

47:31

the print said he was going to be

47:34

too short to make it. So United released

47:36

him. He had a gross burn, ended up

47:38

six foot two, and got signed by Rochdale.

47:40

And at no point did he hold that,

47:42

you know, that would eat me up, you

47:44

know? What could have been? And he didn't

47:46

hold that at all with him. He

47:48

got diagnosed with cancer when he

47:50

was 23 at Tramir, came back from

47:52

that. Got diagnosed a second

47:55

time. came back from that and scored

47:57

the goal that kept Rochdale in

47:59

league one against Charlton Athletic. It was

48:01

actual Roy the Rovers, beyond Roy

48:03

the Rovers it was. So he always

48:05

had that to define him and

48:07

yet he never let any of that

48:09

stuff define him even. He was

48:11

so generous with his time. He

48:14

was such a brilliant

48:16

person. And as well as a

48:18

broadcaster, you know that the best

48:20

footballers and ones were coachable, right? You'd

48:22

get like the the producers just say

48:24

one thing to him just give him one

48:26

example and you just do it Do

48:29

it straight away and I kind of was

48:31

like right that's the guy you need

48:33

to be like so as a just he

48:35

was only 36 years old and To

48:37

lose him. It's it's just it's no age

48:39

at all. Is it really is no

48:41

age? He was such an amazing person. I

48:43

miss him so much already and He

48:46

did lots of motivational speaking as

48:48

well and way beyond the world

48:50

of football. So his reach has

48:52

been really far, far reaching. And

48:55

going back to Man United, he actually

48:57

helped start their alumni program, which up

48:59

until this point was like just like

49:01

an ad hoc thing. And so when

49:03

we talk about, you know, Man United

49:05

looking after their old players or thinking

49:07

about that side of things, he was

49:10

spearheading that. Even with all this going

49:12

on, he took the time to try

49:14

and help other people as well. And

49:16

yeah. much missed. There was applause is

49:18

silences across the EFL and beyond. And

49:21

it kind of shows you what

49:23

an impact he's had. And yeah, I

49:25

will really, really miss him. Beautiful.

49:27

And that we send our love to

49:29

his family and his mates, of

49:31

course. Let's talk about League two. So

49:34

nobody really wants to win

49:36

it, but Doncaster currently in the

49:38

box seat, they're on 78

49:40

points from 44, Portvale 77, Bradford

49:42

75, Walsall on this absolutely

49:44

terrible run, 74, and

49:46

then looking at the playoff spots,

49:48

Wimbledon on 70, Knox County 69,

49:50

Grimsby 67 in the last playoff

49:52

spot with Colchester and Salford just

49:54

behind them. Can we start with

49:57

that Walsall drop -off, George? Because

50:00

They spent 216 days in the top

50:02

three, and now I've got 12

50:04

without a win. It's just so like,

50:06

it just feels like every lower league

50:08

fan knows this. Typical of us,

50:10

everything. That's just exactly what we would

50:12

do. There was some EFL podcast

50:14

that I won't name, did a piece

50:16

saying, I will saw the best league

50:18

two -side ever. And since

50:20

then, they've won two games. Yeah,

50:23

it's a ridiculous drop

50:25

off. Having

50:27

watched quite a lot of their games in

50:29

this run, it's felt like they've played okay in

50:32

some of them. You know, they were okay

50:34

in the tall draw against Doncaster, for example. They

50:36

were 2 -1 up against Port Vale and they

50:38

ended up losing 3 -2. They've

50:40

put in some okay performances. They've just completely

50:42

lost the ability to win games of football.

50:45

There is some block there where they just

50:47

can't get over the line in games, even

50:49

when they're ahead. In Ferlesson, they've

50:51

come back from behind in a few games. That Doncaster game

50:53

being one of them, there was a one -all draw against

50:55

AFC Wimbledon where they scored late. The

50:57

loss of Nathan Lowe, and this is

50:59

what must really hurt our all sort

51:01

of fans is that Nathan Lowe was

51:03

recalled in January by Stoke when Tom

51:05

Cannon was was recalled by Leicester from

51:07

Stoke and initially he played but

51:10

he's not playing he's not featuring a matchday

51:12

squad anymore he's playing for their under 20

51:14

once and for woolsaw fans to be sitting

51:16

there thinking this is our star player who

51:18

we put in the shot window who scored

51:20

15 league goals for us in the first

51:22

half of the season taken away from us

51:24

now he's not even playing for he's not

51:26

even playing league football for anybody and that's

51:28

got to be so galling i watched the

51:31

game on there's the early kickoff on uh

51:33

on monday and one of the probably most

51:35

iconic moments of the whole season came with

51:37

Newport were down to 10 men, also were

51:39

throwing everything forward. Last kick of

51:41

the game, the cross comes in, McKenzie at

51:43

the back post, heads home, absolute pandemonium

51:45

in the away end, finally they've broken their

51:47

duck, finally they've won a game. And

51:49

in scenes that we don't normally see in the EFL, because it's

51:51

normally safe for VAR, about 50 seconds after

51:53

the ball hits the back of the net,

51:56

we see the referee jog over to the

51:58

linesman and the linesman very clearly says, hand

52:00

ball and as for why he hasn't flunged

52:02

already I don't know and then you see

52:04

the replay and what Macinty is doing slapping

52:06

this ball over the line I'll never understand

52:08

because the ball is just there to be

52:10

headed in like I can only assume that

52:12

he's scared of just

52:14

flying straight into the post. And then you

52:16

watch the celebration back and you can kind

52:18

of tell that he knows. And you

52:20

can kind of tell that he's like, do I

52:22

celebrate this? I mean, it's a massive goal, but I

52:25

don't want to be the villain here. And

52:27

the goal is chalked off and they

52:29

draw the game nil nil. And it's another

52:31

example of also just finding crazy ways

52:33

not to win games of football. And there

52:35

was a fair chance how they won

52:37

yesterday. They still could have probably topped the

52:39

table. at the end of the season

52:41

because their fixtures are so kind. I still

52:43

reckon there's a fair chance they do

52:45

actually finish in the top three given their

52:47

last two games of the season, but

52:49

they're making hard work of it. Yeah. I

52:51

mean, look, Stanley Bradford and third drew

52:53

both their games over Easter, getting huge crowds

52:55

over there. Port Vale only picked up

52:57

one point. And actually, you know, that was

52:59

another sort of last minute keeper was

53:01

up. Then the, you know, the Oppo Grimsby

53:03

clear it, the keepers start sprinting back,

53:05

but Paul Vell get the ball back and

53:07

finally score. So like, nobody wants it.

53:10

No, for Bradford, I suppose calm

53:12

as a bitch, isn't it? If you think back

53:14

to the celebrations that he talks about in the

53:16

pod, and the 5 -4 win over Swindon

53:18

Town, they are goading the guy who scored the own

53:20

goal. They were free one

53:22

up against Chesterfield on the Monday and

53:24

contrived to draw three all with a

53:26

last minute. Equalizer, and

53:28

Port Vale by the way, the

53:30

game before that one, they

53:32

were 3 -0 down to bottom

53:34

side, Carlisle United got it back

53:36

to 3 -2, and then won

53:38

a penalty, and the best

53:40

goalkeeper name I think, Gabe Hendricks

53:43

Breeze, with a brilliant save

53:45

for Carlisle United. Every

53:47

team just just just

53:49

won't try get it over the line. It's

53:51

amazing. So Yeah, I don't know. I cannot

53:53

call it. You cannot call it. I've no

53:55

idea what's going on I kind of fell

53:57

in love with Doncaster when I saw him

53:59

a few weeks back Luke Molyneux

54:01

in particular, who's nominated for Player

54:03

of the Seasons, been great for them

54:05

on the wide left, but it's

54:07

really anyone's. In fact, Doncaster and Bradford

54:10

play next. So that's another huge

54:12

game in the EFL. I

54:14

don't know if, by the way, if

54:16

you saw the David Prottin, Omar, David

54:18

Mitchell. Very good. Yeah.

54:20

And another game, but it's true. It's

54:22

actually true. If you are wedded to

54:24

the EFL, then it is

54:26

pure. David Mitchell walking

54:28

around QPR. It's amazing. Is

54:30

that football eating itself when Sky are doing

54:32

a rip off of David Mitchell doing a rip

54:34

off of Sky? Like, now does David Mitchell

54:37

have to go and do another rip off of

54:39

that? I mean, fair play to Prats because

54:41

that would have taken a long time, that shoot.

54:43

And actually, he did it and it's really

54:45

easy to fuck that up. And he actually did

54:47

it brilliantly. And, you know, he just, he

54:49

actually, he sort of channeled because, you know, he

54:51

sort of David Mitchelled his hair up a

54:53

bit, didn't he? And of course, we launched his

54:55

media career, Barry. I

54:57

actually, the first time he came into a radio

54:59

show for nothing, I gave him 20 quid petrol money.

55:02

So I just thought it was a nice thing to do. But

55:05

yeah, no, he's a good guy, Pruts. Bottom

55:07

of lead two then. George

55:09

sort of looks pretty much set, doesn't it? Morkham

55:12

are down, Kala look like they're

55:14

going to follow them. They're four points

55:16

behind Tramir, two games to go. So

55:19

it seems very unlikely that they will get

55:21

out of it. Yeah, I mean it does. It

55:23

still feels like a significant goal for them

55:25

to score that equaliser away at Akrington in injury

55:27

time because they were going to be consigned

55:29

to relegation had they not won that game and

55:31

with Cheltenham next up who have little to

55:33

play for and then home to Salford on final

55:35

day where Salford could still have an opportunity

55:37

to get in the playoffs but it also could

55:39

be a dead rubber. You know, given that

55:41

Carlisle had won their three previous games going into

55:43

the Akrington game it wouldn't be a massive

55:45

surprise if they could pick up the

55:47

six points needed that would get them

55:50

onto onto 47 and that would mean

55:52

that Tranmayer have to pick up at

55:54

least two points from their games against

55:56

crew in Newport. So it's not done

55:58

yet, I wouldn't say, and for Carlisle

56:00

fans having been properly staring down the

56:02

barrel of relegation to have that moment

56:04

of celebrating survival and just that small

56:06

chance of being able to get out

56:08

would have been would have been huge

56:11

for them. And you were there, Sammy,

56:13

weren't you? I was, and Acrington would

56:15

have themselves been safe up until the

56:17

92nd minute. I mean, they're pretty much

56:19

safe anyway, because it's goal difference, really.

56:21

That's 10 girls swimming or something. I

56:23

mean, they'd been on this run. Which

56:25

was diabolical, and then won

56:27

three games in a row, all powered

56:29

by George E. Kelly, who you'd love, by

56:32

the way, as a centre half. Proper

56:34

old school, putting his

56:36

body everywhere, elbows out. He'd

56:38

got four in three, he had a post

56:40

in this game, and at that point, momentum

56:42

was really going their way. uh they they

56:45

went behind and this clawing the game back

56:47

with this draw it's not they needed the

56:49

win really they needed a win and had

56:51

Tramir of one and they they drew Neil

56:53

in a barrow Carlisle would have been down

56:55

if it had stayed I did a lost

56:57

so it's out of their hands now But

57:00

the margins are so fine. It's just

57:02

incredible. Yeah, um, if they do stay

57:04

up, it'll be thanks to Kelly, but

57:06

he's got to get a few more

57:08

goals yet. And by the way, remember,

57:10

this is the side that went down

57:12

from league one last season. They were

57:14

looking at back to back relegations. And

57:16

it's also a team that get regularly

57:18

seven, eight thousand every season. And going

57:20

through my match notes when I started

57:23

on this, we got these, um, American

57:25

owners, the Piatics in, and I think

57:27

they just like. really naively put all

57:29

their faith in Mike Williamson. They

57:31

brought in from MK Don's.

57:33

He'd signed so many players. A

57:36

lot he'd actually had previously, and

57:39

then they got rid of him in January,

57:41

just after he'd signed all these players. It's been

57:43

a complete hodgepodge. The wage

57:45

bill will be massive. Mark Hughes has

57:47

frozen out players. There's just, you know,

57:49

they've got like some like Paul Dumont there. He's played one game.

57:51

Like, I don't know why they brought him in. There's

57:54

just players everywhere. They need

57:56

to stay up. And if they can stay up,

57:58

I think they'll do very well next season. But

58:00

they are in a real crisis point now. And

58:02

And if they go down, if they go down

58:04

be fair, I think they'll be OK. But, But

58:06

you know, going out of the EFL, we we

58:08

know how difficult it is to get back in.

58:11

It's It's the last thing they want to do.

58:13

And they are dangerously close to doing it. Thanks,

58:15

Thanks, everybody. That was great. I appreciate everybody's time.

58:17

Ian Rushton has entered the chat. You can hear

58:19

him in the background, but hopefully you can cope

58:21

with that. Thank you, Barry. Thank you. Thank you,

58:23

George. Thanks, Max. Thanks, Sally. Cheers,

58:25

Thank you. Football is produced by Joe

58:27

Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

58:34

This is The Guardian.