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the Brickyard Network,

0:12

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0:15

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0:18

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0:20

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0:22

To find out

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more about our

0:26

lineup of ceramic

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0:31

brickyard network.org.

0:35

This is Kathy King from For

0:37

Fluck's sake, and Matt Rose and

0:39

I want to send our

0:41

love and support out to

0:43

all the artists, potters, sculptors, and

0:45

craftspeople impacted by Hurricane Helene in

0:47

Western North Carolina. Though this event

0:50

occurred weeks ago, there are

0:52

so many individuals still struggling

0:54

to rebuild. If you were

0:56

in a position to do

0:58

so, please consider donating to

1:00

the Craft Emergency Relief

1:02

Fund. You can go

1:05

to surfplus.org to learn

1:07

more. Thank you. Hello,

1:10

my name is Kathy

1:12

King and welcome to

1:15

the for flux sake

1:17

podcast. I'm coming to

1:20

you from the

1:22

Harvard Ceramics Program

1:24

in our Fair

1:27

City, Alston, Massachusetts.

1:29

I'm here with

1:31

Rose and Matt

1:34

Katz of the

1:36

world famous ceramic

1:39

materials workshop and

1:41

they are ready

1:44

to answer your

1:46

burning questions about

1:49

clay and glaze.

1:51

Hello Matt and

1:53

Rose. Hey Kathy. Hello,

1:56

Kathy. It's fall here

1:58

in New England. The leaves are

2:00

brilliant and falling from the trees

2:03

and it is time to vote.

2:05

Are you guys getting excited? Oh,

2:07

I love them. That's been excited

2:10

for months. And you all live

2:12

in a hotbed. You live in

2:14

the state of New Hampshire here

2:17

in the states, which is one

2:19

of the most watched states when

2:21

we do have an election or

2:24

presidential. Yeah. You know, I will

2:26

say, you know, I won't talk

2:28

specific politics, but I will say,

2:30

I have been surveyed. So, you

2:33

know, all those people like, well,

2:35

I don't know anybody who's ever

2:37

been pulled. I've been pulled multiple

2:40

times the selection. Wow. Interesting. It's

2:42

true. I don't know anybody who's

2:44

ever actually been served. Live in

2:47

a swing state. They want your

2:49

opinion. Yeah. Well, I was going

2:51

to say in Boston, the channel

2:54

that we watch on the news,

2:56

we get all of the New

2:58

Hampshire political commercials, and those are

3:00

so whack-a-doodle. What are you people

3:03

doing? Geez, whiz. It's like crazy

3:05

montages of things that don't really,

3:07

you know, go with each other.

3:10

It's like, you know. people on

3:12

the streets and chimpanzees and banana

3:14

shortages and you want to get

3:17

you want to get really offended

3:19

Kathy sure sure Matt there is

3:21

a candidate for governor I won't

3:23

name names literally their slogan on

3:26

all their signage is don't mass

3:28

up New Hampshire it's far too

3:30

late But we won't talk to

3:33

the specific politics, but we do.

3:35

We bring this up briefly before

3:37

we get to the show because

3:40

it is election season here in

3:42

the United States. And we won't

3:44

tell you who to. vote for

3:47

you, you vote for whoever you

3:49

believe in, but please vote. Young

3:51

people, this is a podcast, they're

3:53

theoretically are young people listening. Please

3:56

vote. Yes. Please vote. Doesn't matter

3:58

who you vote for, just vote.

4:00

Get out and do it. Your

4:03

vote matters. And yeah, we're joking

4:05

about Rose and I live in

4:07

a swingish state. Even if you

4:10

live in California or Texas and

4:12

you think your vote doesn't matter.

4:14

does vote vote vote vote vote

4:17

vote if you are not registered

4:19

you hopefully you can still register

4:21

in your state but go out

4:23

and vote on election day it

4:26

absolutely matters we are participatory democracy

4:28

here in the United States so

4:30

get involved voting is literally the

4:33

least that you can do so

4:35

I already voted in my loving

4:37

Commonwealth of Massachusetts by mail. Nice.

4:40

Although you do bring it to

4:42

the post office, you bring it

4:44

to the post office and put

4:47

it in the slot and then

4:49

it's instantly start thinking of conspiracy

4:51

theories, you know. That's where we

4:53

are in this country. And as

4:56

long as we're not recording this

4:58

podcast from bunkers next time. We

5:00

don't have early voting in our

5:03

state. You got to go in

5:05

person. Yeah, you got to wait

5:07

in line. Yep, so we'll be

5:10

there on election day. So if

5:12

you see us, if you live

5:14

in our district, we'll be there.

5:16

You don't live in our district.

5:19

You have one listener in our

5:21

area. They're not even in our

5:23

town. The sheep are very anti-farmer.

5:26

So y'all I was totally geeking

5:28

out on your YouTube because I

5:30

finally got to see the glow

5:33

in the dark episode. Yeah, so

5:35

if for those that don't know

5:37

what I'm talking about give a

5:40

little intro. Well, well quickly, it's

5:42

called glow up. It's on our

5:44

YouTube channel. Surrang Materials Workshop if

5:46

you don't know it. And it's

5:49

all about glow in the dark

5:51

glaze. Yeah, it's pretty cool. So

5:53

why this was so fascinating to

5:56

me because you and you cited

5:58

it that when it was your

6:00

first in Sika together which was

6:03

so romantic in San Diego and

6:05

then you told the story about

6:07

how somebody came up to you

6:10

and gave you this tile and

6:12

said look at it in the

6:14

dark and it ended up being

6:16

a glow in the dark and

6:19

I was at that and Sika

6:21

and I remember that and I've

6:23

been telling this story forever like

6:26

whatever happened to those people who

6:28

were giving them out. Okay, so

6:30

I can I can update because

6:33

since we released the video we

6:35

were contacted by those people and

6:37

they actually I'm still waiting but

6:39

they they have said that they'll

6:42

send us a new one of

6:44

their original tiles they think they

6:46

have them around. But yeah, it

6:49

was it they were trying to

6:51

sell it as a glaze. And

6:53

it was a person named Brian

6:56

Jensen, and he was out in

6:58

Utah. He's still in ceramics, and

7:00

he had he had cracked it

7:03

back then. And he was selling

7:05

it as glows. G-L-O-Z-E, the glow

7:07

in the dark lays. The website

7:09

is gone. But you know, those

7:12

of you don't know, there's this

7:14

amazing tool called the. way back

7:16

the internet way back machine where

7:19

you can literally just search for

7:21

a term in the past and

7:23

they have archived websites that are

7:26

dead. So every time I hear

7:28

that I cringe like oh what

7:30

kind of awful things were out

7:33

there? I don't know Rose what

7:35

were you doing in your 20s?

7:37

I don't remember. Yeah, so we

7:39

had, we, I remember the tile,

7:42

and it was, it was exactly

7:44

the story that we told. Those

7:46

who were at in Sika in

7:49

San Diego, there was this fountain

7:51

out by the courtyard. Rose and

7:53

I were sitting there and we

7:56

were soaking up the California sun

7:58

and literally he slid up to

8:00

us and put a testile in

8:02

our hands. Yeah, little does he

8:05

know who we were? I mean,

8:07

it's kind of wild that it's,

8:09

you know, that it's been this

8:12

long, you know, you know, and

8:14

now when it's 2024 2024. you

8:16

know, you're actually showing how it

8:19

was done. I mean, so wow,

8:21

ceramics, moving out of snail space.

8:23

Yay! Yeah, it was not a

8:26

high priority and I had had

8:28

some of our students ask me

8:30

about them a couple of years

8:32

ago now. And so I started

8:35

poking around because I didn't think

8:37

it was that hard. It couldn't

8:39

have been that hard of a

8:42

problem. And what we had found

8:44

is that there are two major

8:46

glow in the dark powders. One

8:49

is called zinc sulfide and the

8:51

other is called Eropium Dope strontium

8:53

aluminate. And those are the only,

8:56

those are the two major. I

8:58

know, I had to say it.

9:00

But it done. I wrote the

9:02

script and I kept putting it

9:05

in there and put it in

9:07

there just to get very 25.

9:09

But what you can find is

9:12

that uropium dope strontium aluminumate will

9:14

survive in a kill zinc sulfide

9:16

Completely burns out don't even bother

9:19

like it won't even last in

9:21

an oven it'll kill zinc sulfide

9:23

But the the the uropium definitely

9:26

does last those of you who

9:28

have watched the video will know

9:30

that unfortunately that the glow in

9:32

dark lasers they do work Don't

9:35

give it away But no spoilers.

9:37

There are limitations, I will say.

9:39

And but what I will tell

9:42

that we don't really talk about

9:44

the video is that the the

9:46

the cracking the code on the

9:49

glow in the dark glazes. It

9:51

was not the. slowing part, that's

9:53

the hard part. That's not particularly

9:55

special. It was getting a glaze

9:58

that melted. That was really difficult.

10:00

Yeah, that was the fascinating part.

10:02

Yeah. Yeah. Did you see my

10:05

big guns, Kathy? Oh, they were

10:07

the biggest rows. I was believing.

10:09

They were awesome. Applying from my

10:12

living room for sure, for sure.

10:14

I mean, you know, for real.

10:16

I'm such a fan of the

10:19

videos. There's the graphics are amazing.

10:21

You know, that's amazing. So you

10:23

guys are killing it. So thank

10:25

you. Thank you for that. Rose

10:28

and I get get all the

10:30

attention. But. We do we do

10:32

have a couple of folks that

10:35

work for us and one of

10:37

them is Megan and Megan is

10:39

our our secret weapon who has

10:42

she does all the graphics and

10:44

the effects and she shoots it

10:46

with Rose and she's amazing. Megan

10:49

is amazing shout out to me.

10:51

You should chain her to your

10:53

desk because you're in big trouble.

10:55

Well, as long as, you know,

10:58

Megan and I work pretty well

11:00

together for the YouTube, we have

11:02

a good time when we're recording.

11:05

And I think you can tell

11:07

that in that video, too. Yeah.

11:09

They kick me out. Want me

11:12

around? Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

11:14

The girl party. Well, we should

11:16

get to some questions because we've

11:18

got so many in the queue.

11:21

So let's get going. We shall

11:23

start out with Margaret. From Sarasota

11:25

Florida, Florida, who has a question

11:28

about using that microwave. Hey Matt,

11:30

Kathy and Rose, Margaret here from

11:32

Sarasota, Florida. I'm a studio manager

11:35

here for local pottery studio. I

11:37

love the podcast. Thank you so

11:39

much. I particularly like when Matt

11:42

goes off on tangent. and Rance,

11:44

it's my favorite. But my question

11:46

for you today is, why does

11:48

handmade pottery get hotter in the,

11:51

when you microwave it than commercial

11:53

pottery? Thank you so much. Toodles.

11:55

Toodles, I love it. Well, that's

11:58

a great question. Yeah, it is

12:00

a good question. Well, hold on.

12:02

I want to talk more about

12:05

how much she likes me ranting.

12:07

Oh, her goodness. Give the people

12:09

what they want. Apparently, at least

12:12

we're giving Margaret and Sarasota Florida

12:14

what she wants, necessarily the people

12:16

on the podcast. Well, I want

12:18

to survey. Why do you guys

12:21

think now? So what she's talking

12:23

about is that ceramics should be

12:25

insulators, right? They should reject heat.

12:28

So I want to ask you,

12:30

why do you guys think? No,

12:32

no, no, no. Come on! I

12:35

know the answer, I know the

12:37

answer. Yes, Rose, what's the answer?

12:39

Well, commercial clay bodies are very

12:41

bitrified and so they don't absorb

12:44

any moisture while handmade pottery can

12:46

and does absorb water. because they're

12:48

not fully vitrified. So when you

12:51

put that lovely handmade mug in

12:53

the microwave and your commercial mug

12:55

in the microwave and you pull

12:58

them both out and your handmade

13:00

is hot, it's because the water

13:02

in it is hot. and the

13:05

band what is rose win a

13:07

rush chicken you get quality time

13:09

with me ranting about stuff that's

13:11

not ceramics sorry see Margaret the

13:14

me ranting it's only cute on

13:16

the show you live with me

13:18

24 7 for 20 years oh

13:21

no no I know how to

13:23

tune you out Like, uh-huh, uh-huh,

13:25

uh-huh. That's why she has those

13:28

headphones. Uh-huh, exactly. Of course, as

13:30

with all things, Rose is correct.

13:32

It's all about the water. And

13:35

let's just beat that dead horse

13:37

while we're at it, everybody. Oh

13:39

yeah, I think we've talked about

13:41

this on plenty. This is why

13:44

vitrification matters. Now we'll talk about

13:46

the vitification I do want to

13:48

I want to flip back because

13:51

I was I was laying a

13:53

trap for Kathy because because I

13:55

was hoping sheepishly that she would

13:58

have said something that you'll hear

14:00

some people argue as to why

14:02

this happens and I do want

14:05

to just just point at that

14:07

not being the case. So you're

14:09

assuming I would give the wrong

14:11

answer. I was well no you're

14:14

right you're right. You're right. Hope,

14:16

I was optimistic. It was good

14:18

odds, Matt. Yeah, I can't play

14:21

me. So one of the things

14:23

you'll hear people say is that

14:25

it's the quote-unquote metals in ceramics

14:28

that get hot. And that is

14:30

completely and utterly not correct. We

14:32

don't, so we have to clarify

14:34

something because just want to context

14:37

this, we don't have metals in

14:39

ceramics. If unless you have luster's,

14:41

which we have talked about in

14:44

the show, or technically- Which you

14:46

shouldn't put in the microwave. Which

14:48

you should not put in the

14:51

microwave, they can spark. Or copper

14:53

reds actually technically are a metal.

14:55

You're actually forming metallic or what

14:58

they call colloidal copper. That's not

15:00

a problem in the microwave, because

15:02

it's so small. But we don't

15:04

use metals and ceramics and this

15:07

I just want to point out.

15:09

People look at material that is

15:11

has a metallic form and a

15:14

metal is when you can bond

15:16

an element to it. So an

15:18

iron bonded to an iron bonded

15:21

to an iron is a metal.

15:23

In fact, that's called metallic bonding.

15:25

But when you bond it with

15:28

an oxide, which is what we

15:30

do, it is no longer a

15:32

metal. And you can't call it

15:34

a metal. That's not what metals

15:37

are. So and people really like

15:39

to think this like, oh, aluminum

15:41

makes metal. So it's a no,

15:44

that's not how this works. Because

15:46

if you look at the periodic

15:48

table, literally everything from where glass

15:51

formers are, which is sort of

15:53

the silicon phosphorus arsenic line to

15:55

the left. Every single element over

15:57

there makes a metal. So calcium

16:00

makes a metal. Potassium makes a

16:02

metal. Sodium makes a metal. So

16:04

it's not because of metals. As

16:07

soon as it's bonded with oxygen,

16:09

it is no longer considered a

16:11

metal. And so it doesn't react

16:14

with the microwave. It should be

16:16

insulated. And so the real answer

16:18

that Rose said is the microwave.

16:21

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

16:23

I'd like to thank the Academy

16:25

and my mom and dad and

16:27

the cats and the dogs and

16:30

the children. Go to bed kids.

16:32

It's past your bed time. Love

16:34

you. Here's the reason I do

16:37

this. Well that was a great

16:39

question. I mean so simple but

16:41

you know actually. Fabulous Rose got

16:44

her day in the sun. It's

16:46

a beautiful day. It is a

16:48

simple answer, but it is water.

16:51

water so microwaves work because they

16:53

literally send a microwave a small

16:55

wave that will activate particles so

16:57

those fields you don't know they

17:00

bounce off the particles and if

17:02

they're susceptible to it like water

17:04

is they will literally shake and

17:07

vibrate so they generate their own

17:09

heat and water can do that

17:11

and ceramics don't so yeah it

17:14

is the water and again vitrify

17:16

people this is why it matters

17:18

and this is why You know,

17:21

that 3% absorption, that 1.5% absorption

17:23

on your cone 6 body, is

17:25

not cool. Add it to the

17:27

list of all the reasons why

17:30

clay bodies need to be vitrified.

17:32

But the commercial dinnerware, they have

17:34

to sell it as completely vitrified.

17:37

That is in the FDA standards.

17:39

The FDA standards on dinnerware are

17:41

very small. It's about five things,

17:44

and one of them is non-absorbinant.

17:46

And if it's not absorbent, then

17:48

it can't of water and the

17:50

water is not there to get

17:53

hot. So yeah, vitrify, vitrify, did

17:55

I mention vitrify? Okay. All right.

17:57

So let's move on. And I

18:00

do want to note that our

18:02

next question comes from Ruth from

18:04

New Zealand. And Gooseer Ben asked

18:07

me to do this in a

18:09

New Zealand accent. And because I

18:11

hope to travel to New Zealand

18:14

someday, I will not. be doing

18:16

that. So we'll travel to New

18:18

Zealand to get beaten up. Exactly.

18:20

But you know what? This is,

18:23

even though I much prefer when

18:25

people send us voice memos, this

18:27

actually is one that I am

18:30

going to enjoy reading. So here

18:32

we go, Ruth from New Zealand.

18:34

Ruth says, I work with the

18:37

crayons of the glaze world, cone

18:39

six commercial brushing glazes. I've got

18:41

a few years worth of accumulated

18:44

sludge from washing brushes, etc. and

18:46

would like to have a go

18:48

at making a usable glaze out

18:50

of it. It turns out it

18:53

fires to a lovely poo brown

18:55

color. Without any idea of the

18:57

chemistry, could you advise me on

19:00

what colorants I could use to

19:02

start experimenting? I mean, start with

19:04

the brown, so you might as

19:07

well make a black. Dark brown

19:09

or darker brown? I mean, I

19:11

guess you can make a blue

19:13

brown. Yeah, yeah, maybe. You know.

19:16

God loved the children who were

19:18

keeping the sludge off with their

19:20

brushes being washed in water. Oh

19:23

my God. I like that she

19:25

refers to the crayons of the

19:27

glaze. I usually say the acrylics,

19:30

but yeah, crayons is even better.

19:32

The crayons are markers of the

19:34

ceramic world. Well, you know, Rose,

19:37

you do have to give yourself

19:39

some credit that back when Rose

19:41

was in the tile industry, she

19:43

was working with a similar concept,

19:46

that you had created glazes that

19:48

were new glazes made from essentially

19:50

glaze waste. Well, new colors, I

19:53

should say. Yeah, so, and the

19:55

factor I worked with had a

19:57

glaze pit. from the glaze line.

20:00

That's the punishment in the glaze

20:02

pit. That's the punishment room in

20:04

our house, the glaze pit. So

20:07

we all are wash off from

20:09

our glaze line, went into this

20:11

glaze pit and we accumulated buckets

20:13

and barrels full and didn't know

20:16

what to do with it. So

20:18

I, one day, I was like,

20:20

oh, let's see what we can

20:23

get out of it. So I

20:25

fired it up. So I fired

20:27

it up. and it came out

20:30

like this soft kind of sylladony

20:32

green. I was like, well, that's

20:34

kind of odd. It's like red

20:36

in its raw state and it

20:39

comes out great. That's pretty cool.

20:41

So my, the people who owned

20:43

the factor at the time are

20:46

like, well, we're gonna make a

20:48

glaze out of it. Okay. I

20:50

think there was also, wasn't there

20:53

also to mention that they didn't

20:55

want to spend the money to

20:57

dispose of it? Yes, well yes,

21:00

that's that's always the case. They

21:02

don't want to spend the money

21:04

on anything so we're going to

21:06

pay you to make it reusable

21:09

So you know I came up

21:11

with this whole palette of colors

21:13

using this reclaimed stuff as a

21:16

whole process. You have to homogenize

21:18

it, you have to break it

21:20

into specific sizes, figure out the

21:23

water content, figure out the color

21:25

you're dealing with, because each time

21:27

you pull out of this pit,

21:30

it would change color slightly. And

21:32

then you had to figure out

21:34

your water content. It had to

21:36

figure out. you know, what color

21:39

you're going to make it into.

21:41

And we had a wide variety.

21:43

We went from blues to greens

21:46

to browns to like almost like

21:48

a rusty reddish color, which was

21:50

really cool. So yeah, I mean,

21:53

you could experiment with that. I

21:55

mean, unfortunately, you're starting with a

21:57

poo brown as a... As Ruth

22:00

had said, but you can make

22:02

that into different colors, but try

22:04

a larger batch of it, see

22:06

if it comes out the same

22:09

color. You can make a brown,

22:11

you can turn it a bluish

22:13

color, you can turn it to

22:16

a black. A dark green might

22:18

work with some chrome or stains.

22:20

Don't forget stains. Stains will cover.

22:23

I mean, the glazes are probably

22:25

pretty stain heavy based anyway, so.

22:27

Probably, yeah. But yeah, you could

22:29

totally mix and do colors out

22:32

of it. Use it. Just make

22:34

sure you know your water content,

22:36

how much you're adding and control

22:39

your specific gravity and your riskosity

22:41

to keep it consistent. And yeah,

22:43

I'm wondering like what quantity we're

22:46

talking about. Like what. She said

22:48

it was a public studio didn't

22:50

she? Oh true true true or

22:53

runs a studio I mean probably

22:55

could be some some five gallon

22:57

buckets you know it's like 15,000

22:59

mills I mean we take all

23:02

our we have settling tanks or

23:04

not tanks but like these big

23:06

bins and you have to rinse

23:09

off anything that's touch glazes or

23:11

containers, brushes, whatnot in one bin,

23:13

then a second bin, a third,

23:16

and then you can rinse with

23:18

clean waters because we get our

23:20

sinks checked on a regular basis

23:23

for any... metals or whatnot. And

23:25

so when we settle out those

23:27

bins, we take the sludge and

23:29

it goes into these barrels that

23:32

are non-toxic barrels. And when they

23:34

fill, then I call a company

23:36

and they come and take them

23:39

away. And essentially, the person told

23:41

me they just go to a

23:43

landfill. So it's a whole lot

23:46

of, you know. but anyway so

23:48

everybody's every you know three to

23:50

four months somebody has the brilliant

23:52

idea of like what if we

23:55

made something out of it what

23:57

kind of glaze with this what

23:59

kind of glaze with this cat

24:02

these like we're gonna put the

24:04

lid on it and seal it

24:06

and never talk about this again

24:09

thank you very much exactly but

24:11

no we've done I mean so

24:13

on an occasion just to satisfy

24:16

the masses we you know take

24:18

it out and you know And

24:20

it is, it's always poo brown.

24:22

It's consistent, you know. Yeah, a

24:25

lot of iron, which is probably

24:27

in many of the glazes, it's

24:29

going to default to the, it's

24:32

going to default to the darkest

24:34

color it can make. And iron,

24:36

you know, you've combined a brown

24:39

thing with some, you know, some

24:41

greens and some blues, it's going

24:43

to default to brown most of

24:46

the time. But you can, you

24:48

can color brown just know they're

24:50

going to go darker colors. Yeah,

24:52

and it will be. like lighter

24:55

or darker just depends on what's

24:57

going in that sludge. Yeah, but

24:59

I mean the interesting thing that

25:02

you had sort of proven when

25:04

you were doing that for the

25:06

company is that because you had

25:09

a specific palate of glazes and

25:11

it was always the same glazes

25:13

coming through that the sort of

25:15

the textual melt result was actually

25:18

kind of consistent. Yeah, it was.

25:20

Well, and to... we homogenize it.

25:22

So we mix it in large

25:25

quantities. So we take not just

25:27

a barrel, we would take like

25:29

10 barrels and put them in

25:32

this big mixer, homogenize it, and

25:34

then test what that color is

25:36

coming out of. So and we

25:39

had a lot of whites, a

25:41

lot of like, it is lighter

25:43

colors. So influence the overall. Color

25:45

of it. That's how it kind

25:48

of came out this greenish color.

25:50

But yeah, I mean, if we

25:52

ran a lot of browns that

25:55

that month, then yeah, it would

25:57

come out slightly brown or you

25:59

know, it just so it was

26:02

being used. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

26:04

It was in production. It was

26:06

called the Reclamation series and it

26:09

was yeah, all all different colors.

26:11

Like, yeah, sold throughout the US.

26:13

Oh, she won an environmentalism award

26:15

for it. I did it, the

26:18

company did. You did it, you

26:20

got the, you get the award.

26:22

Oh, my goodness. Well, that's awesome.

26:25

You know, we work with a

26:27

design class in the spring from

26:29

the graduate school, the design here

26:32

in Harvard. I was just thinking,

26:34

like, I need to pitch that

26:36

to the professor is have them

26:39

do the project and they have

26:41

to use the sludge glies. You

26:43

know, I don't want them to

26:45

get into like chemistry, but like

26:48

find a reason. to use it.

26:50

Like what, you know, because they

26:52

usually are there to design architectural

26:55

facades or different tile or evaporative

26:57

cooling methods or acoustic tile, all

26:59

that type of stuff. That collection

27:02

and homogenization point that Rose made,

27:04

you really can't underemphasize though. That

27:06

will help you have less total

27:08

chaos. It does mean you sort

27:11

of have to store more and

27:13

deal with it, but it leads

27:15

to, and I think I might

27:18

have mentioned this before on the

27:20

show, but you know, we have

27:22

someone that we worked with that

27:25

had mentioned a studio practice where

27:27

they worked in very large, like

27:29

55 gallons. drums of glaze and

27:32

that they would rebatch when they

27:34

were only halfway through the batch

27:36

of glaze and that helped them

27:38

to keep it more homogenized over

27:41

time because it wasn't a fresh

27:43

batch every time it was averaging

27:45

out with the previous batch and

27:48

then that sort of same concept

27:50

if you want to keep in

27:52

mind if you're trying to reclaim

27:55

sludge that if if you're just

27:57

like oh well here's my five

27:59

gallon bucket and I'm just going

28:02

to use this one that's where

28:04

it's going to be a lot

28:06

more work but if a bunch

28:08

of them and sort of proportionalize

28:11

all of that and then average

28:13

them together over time. It'll be

28:15

much more consistent in control. Well,

28:18

and always expect it not to

28:20

be exactly the same. It's never

28:22

going to be exactly the same.

28:25

Yeah, and there's something nice about

28:27

that, I think, in the right

28:29

application. Okay. So y'all, let's keep

28:31

going because we're on a we're

28:34

on a streak here. So our

28:36

next question. I must read again

28:38

people this question. I know God

28:41

my throat so dry. This is

28:43

from Jane in the UK and

28:45

Jane asked I'm using coarse lithium

28:48

carbonate Good for you, Jane. For

28:50

specific glaze effects at low fire,

28:52

it's working great, but the material

28:55

is expensive and hard to find,

28:57

especially in the UK. What materials

28:59

can I use to achieve similar

29:01

results without raising the firing temperature

29:04

or losing the mat finish? Boy,

29:06

is this a question on many

29:08

people's minds? Well, you know, Margaret

29:11

started off this episode saying how

29:13

much you loved me ranting. Well,

29:15

this is the opposite. Nothing Jane

29:18

sucks to be you. Oh, those

29:20

are harsh words. Ouch. No, for

29:22

those who have never used coarse

29:25

lithium carbon, it's lithium carbonate. It's

29:27

just chunk, it's a little chunky,

29:29

a little bit funky. And it's

29:31

nice for, it sort of adds

29:34

in these little melted in grain.

29:36

manuals to a glaze. One of

29:38

my close friends, Anne courier, she

29:41

does some wonderful sculptures where you

29:43

can just get these little, it

29:45

adds this like speckily melted point

29:48

to them. Unfortunately, the briefness of

29:50

my answer is because there's not

29:52

much else that you can use.

29:54

So lithium carbonate is a lithium

29:57

oxide molecule combined with carbon dioxide

29:59

dioxide. And lithium is an alkaline

30:01

metal flux. And there are three

30:04

of them that we use, we

30:06

use lithium, sodium, potassium, and those

30:08

all do play the same role

30:11

or role in our glazes. The

30:13

problem with those are why people

30:15

tend to use lithium carbonate as

30:18

opposed to soda ash, which is

30:20

sodium carbonate and pearl ash, potassium

30:22

carbonate, is because they are all

30:24

water soluble, which means they're going

30:27

to dissolve when you mix it

30:29

with water, like sugar in your

30:31

coffee. And sodium and potassium are...

30:34

Much, much more soluble than lithium.

30:36

Lithium's solubility is 12.9 grams per

30:38

litre, so if you mix 13

30:41

grams of lithium carbonate into a

30:43

liter of water, it will disappear,

30:45

all of it. Sodium's is much

30:48

worse. It's 340 grams per litre,

30:50

and potassium pearl ash is 1,103

30:52

grams per litre. So yeah, you

30:54

can literally dissolve 1, 1,100 grams

30:57

of pearl ash into water. So

30:59

that's really bad. Lithium carbonate is

31:01

definitely soluble, but it's orders of

31:04

magnitude less soluble than the other

31:06

two. So, you know, like theoretically,

31:08

you'd go, oh yeah, I'll get

31:11

coarse, so dash or coarse, uh-uh,

31:13

because then it's just going to

31:15

dissolve even more. So yeah, there

31:18

aren't great substitutes. You know, for

31:20

thinking creatively, the first things that

31:22

come to my mind is maybe

31:24

playing with glaze granules granules. Yeah,

31:27

that that was my thinking. What

31:29

if you use like a chunk

31:31

for it? Right. I, granted, that's

31:34

hard to find, but, um, like,

31:36

just granulated Fritz. Right. And it's,

31:38

it's, I, can you remember, Rose?

31:41

We were looking at a company

31:43

that was here in the United

31:45

States that literally makes chunky, um,

31:47

Colored glasses that are meant to

31:50

be added in and that there

31:52

are some commercial products I think

31:54

one of them's called like jungle

31:57

gems or so there are commercial

31:59

glazes that have these little chocolates

32:01

mixed into them and they'll often

32:04

call them like crystals They're not

32:06

crystals. They're literally like colored glasses

32:08

and when you get those commercial

32:11

glazes they literally have like chunks

32:13

of things you have to spread

32:15

on there and then they just

32:17

melt out like that I know

32:20

there's a company here in the

32:22

US, which does not help Jane

32:24

being in the UK. I'm sure

32:27

there might be other things in

32:29

the UK, yeah. But I'm completely

32:31

blanking on the name of that

32:34

company that does, but you can

32:36

buy those little chunks of glass

32:38

that will do a similar thing,

32:41

but it's not going to be

32:43

exact same as lithium carbonate. The

32:45

other one, there are some DIY

32:47

solutions. I know Joe Thompson, old

32:50

forge online. He has a series

32:52

of glazes where he has been

32:54

howl signing glaze. So take a

32:57

glaze batch mixed up into sort

32:59

of very coarse particles and then

33:01

fire it up to a relatively

33:04

low temperature. Like I think it's

33:06

like oh 15, I forget exactly

33:08

what it's. He has it all

33:10

documented on his blog, but he

33:13

then. Fires the glaze up to

33:15

a very low temperature, so it

33:17

doesn't melt, but the particle's sinter,

33:20

which is like physically sticking together.

33:22

And then he takes that after

33:24

the firing, he sives out all

33:27

the small stuff, keeps the chunks,

33:29

and then mixes that into a

33:31

new glaze. And he has a

33:34

glaze out there. I think he

33:36

calls it strawberries and cream, where

33:38

he literally has just taken a

33:40

red, like I think it's a

33:43

chromatin red glaze, calcined it, gotten

33:45

out the big chunks, and then

33:47

he mixes that back in. a

33:50

white base so you get these

33:52

little red spots in there. That

33:54

may work. It's going to be

33:57

more work on your part and

33:59

I think that's the answer is

34:01

that there's a couple of things

34:04

that may be okay but none

34:06

of them are going to be

34:08

as simple as just throwing a

34:10

bunch of course lithium. Well so

34:13

expensive or lots of work? Which

34:15

one? That's that's the metric. That's

34:17

the metric. I feel bad for

34:20

Jane. Yeah, it's a tough one.

34:22

The lithium bad for all of

34:24

us really. When it comes to

34:27

lithium, we're here. Well, that's it.

34:29

That's, you know, we've talked about

34:31

the lithium prices. I can't see

34:34

them ever coming back. No. The

34:36

way battery technology has worked and

34:38

the evolution of what batteries are

34:40

and the rise, especially of EVs.

34:43

And like we said, we're not

34:45

complaining. Rose and I drive an

34:47

EVV. We love EVs. They're the

34:50

future. But they are literally buying

34:52

lithium carbonate and spajamine. That is

34:54

what EV batteries are made from.

34:57

And so we can't compete with,

34:59

you know, Elon Musk and his

35:01

evil empire. And it's funny just

35:03

quickly to explain to the community

35:06

that, you know, okay, lithium carbonate,

35:08

this is a thing. It's really

35:10

expensive. I can't make these glazes

35:13

for you all anymore. But that

35:15

just doesn't really get a reaction.

35:17

But if you say spajamine. Because

35:20

the spajimine glaze has been such

35:22

a staple in so many community

35:24

studios for so long then that's

35:27

when I get the wailing and

35:29

the hair pulling and That's that's

35:31

easier to replace if you know

35:33

your chemistry, you know the thing

35:36

about lithium is that lithium, again,

35:38

it's often perceived as being magic,

35:40

especially the lithium carbonate. People like,

35:43

this is some magic. Lithium carbonate

35:45

is not magic. Lithium carbonate is

35:47

just a concentrated source of alkali

35:50

metal fluxes. all of our glazes

35:52

have alkaline metal fluxes, lithium, sodium,

35:54

or potassium. The problem is they

35:57

all come in the form of

35:59

a feldspar, which is the alkali

36:01

metal, lithium, sodium, sodium, sodium, and

36:03

aluminum. And those are the cheapest

36:06

non-water soluble forms of those materials

36:08

that we have. The catch with

36:10

lithium carbonate, why people think it's

36:13

so special, is that it's the

36:15

alkali metal flux. not tied in

36:17

with silica and alumina, so you

36:20

can really mainline massive amounts of

36:22

that flux. And lithium carbonate, because

36:24

its solubility is less than, most

36:26

people are okay working with it.

36:29

It's not an ideal material. We've

36:31

talked before in the past about,

36:33

you know, when it gets cold

36:36

and people start growing crystals in

36:38

their buckets of glaze. That's a

36:40

lithium carbonate problem. That is the

36:43

solubility and lithium carbonate precipitating. losing

36:45

its solubility. And it's not a

36:47

magic material, and then the cost

36:50

gets worse. Spodiumene, you pretty much

36:52

can use nephylene cyanide, and you

36:54

can recreate any spodiumene glaze, because

36:56

in the felds bar form, it's

36:59

not special. I've always avoided spodiumene,

37:01

too, because of the surfactant. Like,

37:03

it just bubbles. Like, that's such

37:06

a pain in the butt. Yeah,

37:08

those of you who haven't worked

37:10

with spodgamine. What Rose is talking

37:13

about is that when you mix

37:15

up spodgamine glazes, they will tend

37:17

to be very foamy when you

37:20

mix them with water. And that's

37:22

because they treat the rock, they

37:24

process it with a surfactant, which

37:26

is essentially a soap, to purify

37:29

the raw material, and it... They

37:31

dry it, but it never gets

37:33

out. And so when you mix

37:36

it with water again, it'll tend

37:38

to foam up like you put

37:40

a bunch of hand washing soap

37:43

in there. And it could be

37:45

me. I didn't know that. How

37:47

have we been doing this for

37:49

years? And that's the first time

37:52

you've used the word surfactant. Rose

37:54

used it. I'm just following along

37:56

with Rose. I'll walk, yeah. Well

37:59

folks, that's it. for this week's

38:01

episode of For Flux Sake. I'd

38:03

like to thank the listeners

38:05

who submitted questions this week

38:07

and if you want your

38:10

question answered on the show

38:12

shoot us an email at

38:14

for Flux Sake podcast at

38:16

gmail.com. So join us next

38:18

time and when in your

38:21

studio remember what Rose always

38:23

says. Always remember to test

38:25

test test. This

38:34

is a test of the

38:36

emergency glaze system.