0:00

It's another week in the

0:02

four-year reference household, and it

0:04

is another reference Max Friends

0:07

and Lovers. This is where

0:09

we have a combined reviews

0:12

on screeners and screenings that

0:14

we have received. Before we

0:16

get to that, O.T. I saw you

0:18

coming out of the boot of the

0:21

G&X. Friends and Love is go and

0:23

check out the collab that is in

0:25

the most recent of the podcast feed.

0:27

Quick thoughts, because we didn't get the

0:30

oat daddy stamp of approval. What did

0:32

you think about G&X? I loved

0:34

it. I loved every little bit of it.

0:36

I think it's my most listened to

0:39

album to date. Wow. And it's, what, what,

0:41

what, what, what, what, what, what, did, they

0:43

call in December? November, I

0:45

think. Yeah, this is a lot.

0:47

Yeah, you know what? I'm

0:50

feeling good, O.T. Give us

0:52

one more in the Black

0:54

Clansman review. I was actually

0:56

going to ask you to

0:58

give us your best white

1:00

voice and I didn't get

1:02

to. So we're loving on

1:04

all each other, friends and

1:06

lovers, this is a gift.

1:09

Can you give us your best

1:11

O.T. Stolesworth voice?

1:14

No, I think not

1:16

even Adam Driver

1:18

can help you.

1:20

Let's get on.

1:23

That's a bit

1:25

of Vigro Mortinson.

1:27

It's got some

1:29

green book connotations.

1:32

Let's get on at

1:34

the show. friends

1:41

and giggle-gag-all around the

1:43

world lovers. Welcome back

1:45

to the four-year reference

1:47

podcast. You got your host, Katie.

1:50

And Ote. Today we have a

1:52

full schedule. We have quite a

1:54

lot of reviews because we had

1:56

our Spike Lee reference station Friends

1:59

and Lovers. and check out our

2:01

Spike Lee run. It was gorgeous,

2:03

it was beautiful, but it does

2:06

stop our scheduling. So we do

2:08

have some reviews that we're going

2:10

to get to today, Friends and

2:13

Lovers, One of them Days, The

2:15

Last Journey, Upper Cup, Mickey 17.

2:17

We have some more indie titles

2:20

on the way as well, and

2:22

I hope we have time for the

2:24

Pit. Okay, we got 10 of

2:26

them bitches. What a what a

2:28

sad reflective New Year's we had

2:31

O.T. And we've been deliciously

2:33

enjoying every drip feed if

2:35

you'll pardon the pun of

2:37

every episode that we're getting.

2:39

We're almost up to episode

2:41

15 of the pit. Also, friends and

2:44

lovers to tantalize you with some

2:46

more spices as well. Can we

2:48

do a four review episode

2:50

on Delhi boys, please? Of

2:53

course. Tan France! All right,

2:55

friends and lovers, thank

2:57

you so much for joining. If

2:59

you didn't know if you

3:01

weren't a hoea, Oti and

3:03

I do have a little

3:05

box account and from time

3:07

to time we will share

3:09

our views on things that

3:11

we are watching. But let's

3:13

get straight into it. Thank

3:15

you so much to Jess

3:17

and the global team at

3:19

Sony. You would have seen

3:21

it in the podcast feed.

3:23

We had the opportunity to

3:25

interview the Kiki Palmer. So

3:27

thank you all around. We finally

3:30

get some time to talk about

3:32

it. I feel so sad that

3:35

we don't have time for a

3:37

full review, but this can be

3:39

as chunky as a honey bun,

3:42

if you like, Otee. Non-spoilers, give

3:44

us your thoughts, Otee. One

3:46

of them days blends depth

3:48

with sharp humor and

3:51

undeniable charm. Hickey and Caesar

3:53

shine bringing wit and warm to

3:56

a film that's both entertaining and

3:58

meaningful. Yes,

4:02

okay, both

4:04

in front of and

4:06

behind the lens, one

4:09

of them days delivers

4:11

a laugh out loud

4:13

comedy and builds a

4:15

layered world

4:17

of friendship squabbles,

4:19

community coming

4:21

together and delicious

4:24

romance a

4:26

modern comedy classic.

4:29

Wow. I

4:32

don't know how we fit that laughing in the

4:37

there's so much to talk about

4:39

in this film and you know, where

4:41

do we even start? I think the easiest

4:45

the most difficult thing for

4:47

me personally you know friends

4:49

and lovers we've been doing

4:51

this podcast since 2019 and I

4:53

find it very easy to

4:55

critique and review dramas serious heavy

4:58

shit but when it comes

5:00

to comedy for me I'm like

5:02

it was so good but

5:04

there is an art like there's

5:06

absolutely an art to making

5:08

a great comedy and I would

5:10

love to hear from you

5:13

where you think it worked I

5:15

don't know if you felt

5:17

like in some points it didn't

5:19

work but does it

5:21

does it stack up with the

5:23

comedies of your childhood and your

5:25

upbringing? It does it

5:27

does stack up I think

5:30

first of all I think that it needs

5:32

to as well it doesn't but one of

5:34

the things that I think

5:36

made this stand

5:38

out was the chemistry

5:40

between Cesar and Kiki yes

5:42

it just worked yes

5:44

also seeing Cesar act was

5:46

quite wonderful right um

5:48

she nailed her moments the comedic

5:50

timing was there like you didn't

5:53

feel a miss and I think

5:55

most of the time when you

5:57

watch movies like this um the

5:59

sort of says a character portrayal,

6:01

doesn't really get to do

6:03

much, whilst in there's this

6:05

sort of go against that

6:07

vein where we see, you

6:10

know what? She actually did

6:12

quite a lot. It's just

6:14

all falling on Kiki's back

6:16

to carry the movie through.

6:18

Yeah, like without spoilers, Sizza's

6:20

character really was the driving

6:22

force for a lot of,

6:24

not even the plot, just

6:26

for the growth and for

6:29

the story. as well. You

6:31

know, you can talk about

6:33

Oti's favorite friends with Phoebe,

6:35

but I think of Sinclair

6:37

from Living Single as well.

6:39

If we talk about our

6:41

woo-woo-w girls in media, whether

6:43

it's television and film, and

6:45

Cesar does it so well,

6:48

like there's a, we don't

6:50

want to spoil too much,

6:52

but there's a moment at

6:54

the start of the film.

6:56

where she jokes about getting

6:58

extra exercise by tripping over

7:00

her boyfriend's Jordans. And it

7:02

just, it just works so

7:04

well. It does. I think

7:07

also at the same time,

7:09

because the story is very

7:11

specific to experiences and it's

7:13

very culturally tapped in, you

7:15

don't really, like, you don't

7:17

need to be some sort

7:19

of thespian to be able

7:21

to tap into what's real.

7:23

Just the dynamic and how

7:26

they carry themselves throughout. I

7:28

think we get to see

7:30

cut Williams in there as

7:32

well. The things that he

7:34

said, was he a furious

7:36

to you? He sort of,

7:38

but not as serious as

7:40

a, you know, furious was

7:42

too much, not too much,

7:45

just he came with everything

7:47

and he felt very Malcolm

7:49

X. With him, it's a

7:51

bit more chilled and it's

7:53

not only reminded me of

7:55

that message from Don't Be

7:57

a Man, as you know.

7:59

where we get to have

8:02

those reflective moments

8:04

as well. But yeah, you

8:06

know, from, was it she

8:08

a butter or cocoa butter?

8:10

Yeah, she butter butter. Oh,

8:13

it was good, good fun.

8:15

You know, if you don't

8:17

have the money this month,

8:19

what makes you think you

8:22

got the money next month?

8:24

Yeah, like they cover a lot

8:26

from. payday loans to, you know,

8:29

it's a systemic sort of way

8:31

of which, you know, keeps you

8:33

down, keeps the community tied up,

8:36

but, you know. It's one thing

8:38

to, I guess, cover

8:40

like gentrification, shout out

8:42

to Sarita Singleton, screenwriter,

8:45

but also showrunner for

8:47

rap shit. Lawrence

8:49

Lamont directing also, I know I can

8:51

feel the pain, I can feel the

8:53

pain in your heart. I miss out.

8:55

Shout out, shout out, to Issa

8:57

and the Hooray team because there's

8:59

a documentary called Scene and Heard

9:02

that just premiered at South By

9:04

Southwest and it's about black creatives

9:06

and show running and I guess

9:08

the building of audiences. just to

9:10

disregard the audiences that made them.

9:12

So it's going to be very

9:14

interesting and it's so nice to

9:16

be able to, I guess, speak

9:19

on it, but I guess to

9:21

go back to the point of

9:23

gentrification. Like, it's

9:25

one thing to be able to cover

9:27

that in a film, whether it's dramatic

9:29

or any other sort of genre,

9:32

but there is an art to

9:34

be able to cover gentrification, but

9:36

also do it. in a way that

9:38

taps into the humor, which is the

9:41

joy that you find through community, right?

9:43

And, you know, we literally just did

9:45

our Spike Lee run, like, do the

9:47

right thing where you had the unks.

9:50

I don't know if Royal Junior would

9:52

associate himself with these unks. But, you

9:54

know, that we're talking about

9:56

businesses who owns businesses who

9:59

gets opportunity. And you see this

10:01

through especially a lot of black

10:03

media and being able to traverse

10:05

those, you know, even in the

10:07

quote that you were talking about

10:09

as well, that sharp wit and

10:12

humor. Yeah, it does quite a

10:14

lot, you know, from, you know,

10:16

I think one of the better

10:19

also portrayals of gentrification in movies

10:21

was Kandi Man and... Yeah. the

10:23

way it was done, the O.G.

10:25

Candyman. I know. But the

10:27

white professor. Yeah. Yeah, being

10:29

for Snickety and explaining

10:32

it all. But I think

10:34

that's like a really great

10:36

allegory in the way to

10:38

do that. Thoughts on love

10:41

interests. You said that Te

10:43

Diggs was your... It stopped

10:45

after Te Diggs. So maybe

10:47

they're not 90s fine, but how

10:49

did you feel about that? Was

10:52

there a little something for everyone,

10:54

a little something? I guess, I don't

10:56

know. You're the one that wanted

10:58

the 90s, sort of blokes in

11:01

there. And to me, if it

11:03

wasn't eight digs, I don't know.

11:05

I'm just a personal intimacy coordinator

11:08

routine. What can I say? The

11:10

love interest was a bit cartoonish,

11:12

especially when it came to... Maniac.

11:15

Caesar? Oh yeah. Yeah, I

11:17

was like, yeah, we're like, come

11:19

on now. Yeah, come on now.

11:21

Well I think, and that's

11:23

also because the strength

11:26

of the film is

11:28

kicky and sizzer. So yeah,

11:30

if the background

11:32

kind of had met them

11:35

at that level, but also

11:37

it doesn't make or

11:39

break the film. It

11:42

doesn't. But he was in

11:44

more scenes than I thought he

11:46

was. Yeah. Yeah, no, I absolutely

11:48

agree. I loved it and

11:50

I can't wait to watch

11:52

it again. All right

11:54

friends and lovers, let's

11:57

move into the last

11:59

journey. Thank you to

12:01

the team at Universal. We

12:03

also have an interview with

12:06

Philippe and Frederick, Friends and

12:08

Lovers, where I definitely made

12:10

sure to have some time

12:12

to talk about Harry Belafonte.

12:15

Shake, shake. Yeah, I did. And I

12:17

thought they were going to join in, but

12:19

they didn't. Oh, how we're watching this?

12:21

Um, I mean, you, not

12:23

I'm either. Common Side effects.

12:25

Common side effects. Yes. It's

12:28

I think on HBO and

12:30

Bloody Hell. It's

12:32

amazing. Oh, you want me

12:34

to go? What a segue, yes.

12:36

The last Johnny reveals

12:39

the dissonance between

12:41

memory and reality

12:44

as apparent ages.

12:46

Its emotional core is

12:48

strong, though at times

12:51

the Johnny feels more

12:54

frustrating than moving.

12:57

I want to get my hoo

12:59

in your book, quote. Oh, see,

13:01

you're the silent assassin, but...

13:03

It's just not even that.

13:05

Tap, tap, tap. Am I

13:07

wrong, though? No, give me yours.

13:10

And what's up, though?

13:12

Okay. Accepting or struggling

13:14

to accept the helplessness

13:16

of witnessing parents

13:18

get older proves

13:20

to be difficult

13:22

to separate from

13:24

the intended... elevated

13:27

reality. Okay. Moments are

13:29

understandable but

13:31

also difficult

13:33

to watch. Pretty much the

13:35

same thing we said. Absolutely.

13:38

And this is the thing, right?

13:41

It's hard to see. Oh,

13:43

and this is like the

13:45

perfect sort of thing that

13:47

all the overarching theme that

13:49

we're talking when it came

13:52

to Wolfman. seeing your

13:54

loved one change from the person

13:56

you used to know to someone

13:58

who is unrecognized. And that

14:01

helplessness. And that

14:03

helplessness. So overlaying it

14:06

with this, you get

14:08

to see, you remember your

14:10

pops one way. And the

14:12

memories and everything that

14:15

you think that he was or

14:17

is, is no longer there

14:20

or it's sort of diminished.

14:22

And you want to rekindle

14:24

and relieve and be

14:26

part of, you know, one

14:28

last hurrah. Yeah, it

14:30

does sound romantic.

14:33

Because it's not delusional.

14:35

I think Philip is

14:37

quite clear. But there's,

14:40

there's, to me, there's

14:42

the dissonance, right, between

14:45

what was and what

14:47

is, and accepting what is,

14:49

and navigating what is now

14:51

in a way that feels

14:54

healthy. Yes. And, and

14:56

for both people involved.

14:59

Yeah. And it's so hard to it

15:01

was so hard watching this

15:03

because the moments where I

15:05

felt very sad Because you

15:07

know it's talking to things that

15:10

most of us will go

15:12

through if not everyone It's

15:14

that aspect of those like neatly

15:16

feeling of mmm. Come on now

15:18

like yeah is this for the

15:20

benefit of your dad or you

15:22

is this for the benefit

15:24

of your dad or you is this

15:26

for the benefit of TV?

15:29

Oh, your relationship. That's

15:32

interesting. Okay, okay. Well,

15:34

let's pick up on that.

15:36

And honestly, your quote summarized

15:39

everything. But I actually

15:41

would disagree with you on

15:43

that. I don't think... I

15:45

summarized everything but wrongly... No,

15:48

no, no, no. It's just,

15:50

because you were saying, is he

15:52

doing that for himself or

15:54

is he doing it for the

15:57

cameras? Okay. I think

16:00

We just are seeing him document

16:02

him being able to a certain

16:04

extent be unable to accept That

16:07

is that's getting older. That's

16:09

what I disagree with but in

16:11

terms of me saying like I don't

16:13

think he's going out of his way

16:15

to make a show and dance because

16:17

of the cameras I don't mean in

16:19

terms of it being like a jaka

16:21

sort of portrayal more in terms

16:24

of what's scripted if there's

16:26

any scripted moments or is

16:28

it fully just unscripted

16:31

and fully just leaning into

16:33

what's being captured. Okay, well

16:35

friends and lovers, because sometimes you

16:37

are nasty, well do be fair,

16:39

we did say non-spoilers, but for

16:42

those that don't want to know

16:44

anything, you might be a little

16:46

bit nasty and you want to

16:48

hear mummy and daddy talk about

16:50

this. Aging mummy and daddy, but

16:52

still sexy otherwise, right, Ote? Like

16:54

I guess to give a bit

16:57

of a context for this

16:59

film. Philip's dad, he lectured

17:01

and taught French and

17:04

he retired and

17:06

Philip documented that

17:09

and then there was

17:11

an idea to do

17:13

a documentary about his

17:16

dad's life and What

17:19

Oti is talking about is

17:21

essentially, and also, let's be

17:23

very clear, medical tests were

17:25

done on the dad and

17:27

there's nothing physically, he's

17:30

not diagnosed with anything, he's

17:32

just getting old. He seems

17:34

like he lived a pretty good

17:36

life, he's still living a good

17:39

life, right? But medically, there's nothing,

17:41

quote, in quote, wrong with

17:43

the father. And I think

17:45

that's where the first, if there

17:47

were going to be some barriers

17:50

in this film, I think that's

17:52

where for me personally, that was

17:54

my first sort of barrier in

17:56

this film. And you know, like I've

17:58

shared a bit on. social media.

18:00

I haven't really shared it

18:02

on this podcast, Friends and

18:04

Lovers, but because this is

18:06

a deeply personal film, intended,

18:08

you know, elevated reality, but

18:11

it kind of, you know,

18:13

it's hard to, it blurs

18:15

the lines of that. But as

18:17

much as it relates to this

18:19

review, Friends and Lovers, I have

18:21

a mom that has dementia, right?

18:23

She was diagnosed with 58.

18:26

It was early onset dementia

18:28

because if you're after 65

18:31

then I guess it's your

18:33

garden variety dementia. And as

18:36

much as this film

18:38

was frustrating, it

18:40

isn't unrealistic to me because

18:42

I also have people in

18:45

my life that are like Philip.

18:47

Yeah. That are unable to

18:49

accept the reality.

18:51

And That was my first barrier

18:54

because I am the sort

18:56

of person that I get

18:58

involved in the appointments in

19:00

the organizing and the planning

19:02

and that's part of how

19:04

I get through the shit

19:06

that I need to get

19:08

through. I intellectually understand that

19:10

that doesn't stop me unfortunately

19:12

it took me a while,

19:14

but you know I intellectually

19:17

understand that That shit

19:19

doesn't stop me. I still need

19:21

to feel the shit that I

19:24

need to feel. And it's scary

19:26

at the end of the day, right?

19:28

But this film was a

19:31

continuous, I wouldn't necessarily

19:33

call it a denial,

19:35

but like you said, it

19:37

was a prioritizing. I need

19:39

to be able to execute

19:41

this recreation of my

19:44

dad's life because what else is

19:46

there? Yeah. The memories I

19:48

guess aren't enough. The time

19:50

that you can spend isn't,

19:53

there isn't enough beauty

19:55

in that. There's so

19:57

much logistics and core.

19:59

that go into this, and even

20:02

if it gets achieved, how then

20:04

does that, like there are so many

20:06

ways that you can bond with

20:08

your dad. There are so many

20:11

ways that you can bond with

20:13

your parent. And you know, like

20:15

you said, like I said, it

20:17

was very frustrating watching this film,

20:20

but it was more, let's just

20:22

like, like, if we just accept

20:24

it, there's so much beauty

20:26

that we can have. And that's

20:29

right, and that's where we

20:31

come, you know, at least

20:33

at the end of this movie,

20:35

you have your frustrations

20:38

aside, but you felt

20:41

a lot because in

20:43

your life you've experienced

20:45

one of these things,

20:47

and it taps into

20:49

something, it does, because then

20:52

you ask yourself. a

20:54

lot of questions, introspective

20:56

questions, you reevaluate the

20:58

relationships that you do

21:00

have, what you feel

21:02

that needs to be

21:04

done, and I think

21:06

that's one of the key take-aways

21:09

at least for this, for me,

21:12

is what is there anything that

21:14

I need to do, that I

21:16

need to make sure that is

21:18

taken off to ensure that

21:20

my relationship with my...

21:23

parents with whoever else is

21:25

there that is, you know, being

21:27

fully realized in its

21:29

entirety without me feeling there

21:32

will be any regret if anything

21:34

ought to happen. Yeah. And I

21:36

guess, if anything, it does that.

21:38

And, you know, how many movies

21:41

how many movies out there can

21:43

make that can make you say

21:45

that. So in as much as

21:47

those frustration, at

21:49

least there's something you walk

21:51

away with. Suppose. Yeah.

21:53

We really chose very

21:55

specifically for our ordering

21:58

or a T. Thank

22:00

you so much to Jazelle

22:02

and the team at

22:05

Katrina 1PR. We are

22:07

covering Upka. Shall I

22:09

submit frames before we

22:12

get into it. Wow. Yeah,

22:14

that's ordering that.

22:17

Upaker feels disjointed

22:19

with a protagonist

22:22

whose cuts around

22:24

deeper themes without

22:26

truly engaging. A

22:28

strong performance from

22:31

Ving for what it's worth.

22:33

I love that you had to give

22:35

a nod to Ving Rames.

22:37

Just to make it clear,

22:39

we haven't got no problems.

22:42

I don't want someone showing up

22:44

in my... Give me some baby

22:46

boy squats. I don't need it.

22:49

There were African squats,

22:51

Oatee. You call them

22:53

baby boy Africans. Uppercutt's

22:56

nerve center operates from

22:59

a aggrieved entitled protagonist

23:01

that is barely held

23:03

to account and little

23:06

room for growth, let alone

23:08

pay off. Wow. You can't get

23:10

away from the million-dollar

23:13

baby comparisons. You

23:15

cannot. It is also a remake

23:17

of the German film. as

23:19

well. Oh, there's a German film.

23:22

Which also had mixed reactions.

23:24

I was looking at the...

23:26

So nothing was lost in translation.

23:29

This... I didn't understand

23:31

what they wanted to do with

23:33

this movie. I didn't get... I

23:35

kept on asking myself why a lot

23:37

of the times. Yeah. As to why

23:39

sudden decisions were being

23:42

made. Something references were

23:44

being made. Use of language

23:46

is very... important and

23:48

intentional so when words are

23:51

used and they're left to

23:53

linger without any sort of

23:55

resolution or without any sort

23:58

of callback you were left.

24:00

wondering what the fuck we're doing

24:02

here? May I may I tease on

24:04

that thread? No, because it goes

24:07

into the spoilary thing. I

24:09

think what the movie does is

24:11

give us a protagonist who

24:13

feels a bit so hard done

24:16

by hard done by, but then

24:18

we don't know why. Hard

24:20

done by to the point

24:22

where Ving who feels like

24:24

has gone through a tremendous

24:26

a lot of shit. and

24:28

the mere fact that he

24:30

is a black man operating

24:32

his studio his

24:34

boxing studio whatever

24:37

and feeling as if oh my

24:39

god this girl has gone through

24:41

it I need to help her

24:44

after 10 minutes of

24:46

meeting up with her I

24:48

think there's a trope

24:51

of magical society I

24:53

don't know, like... What was a

24:55

man's name, Darius as well? Like

24:58

everyone was just... Like everyone

25:00

was her problem, like everyone

25:02

was a problem to her. She

25:04

is flawed and I think the movie

25:07

is trying to portray the aspect

25:09

of it that she is flawed,

25:11

there's things going around her

25:13

outside of a control. We

25:15

get to have this Darius

25:17

thing lingering throughout without really

25:19

knowing the wrong reason behind

25:22

it. Even at the end where

25:24

there's this phone call that she

25:26

misses, I'm like, it feels it

25:28

needs to be more pivotal than

25:31

that than what it was. Can

25:33

I pick up on that? Because

25:35

you said, okay, so she's so

25:38

aggrieved, she's so downtrodden by the

25:40

world, and you said we didn't

25:42

know why. We did. It just

25:45

wasn't compelling enough.

25:47

If that was all, then, bro. That

25:49

was it. And, you know, essentially.

25:52

She's this white brunette woman speaking

25:54

to a black man talking about

25:56

how much she's been through in

25:58

her life and and it was because

26:00

of a pretty blonde girl. I

26:04

guess Lez. No!

26:07

Maybe, because I looked at the cast for

26:09

the German one and they were all white. So

26:12

maybe it would have helped thematically,

26:14

but it really comes off

26:16

like oh you don't know what

26:18

I've been through. It was

26:20

a blonde girl, that's so

26:23

pretty. Like really bitch? Get the

26:25

fuck out of my boxing

26:27

studio. It's the intersectionality darling. I'll

26:29

do anything. I'll do anything. I'm

26:31

going to, I'm ignoring you. I'll

26:33

do anything. And then he'll ask

26:35

her to do one small thing for

26:37

their training. I can't believe you would ask

26:39

me to do that. Get the fuck

26:41

out then. Ving

26:44

Reims character extends too much

26:46

for her. He was

26:48

acting. I hope he got

26:50

all of his pennies for this

26:52

film because the performance that Ving Reims

26:54

brought to this film was

26:57

not warranted based

26:59

on the performances of

27:01

the lead, as well as

27:03

the writing, as well

27:05

as everything. I'm

27:08

not the biggest fan of

27:10

time jumps, flash forward, flashbacks. I

27:12

feel like sometimes it can

27:14

be used as a crutch, but

27:16

it can still be used well

27:18

and relay a lot of

27:20

important information and tie in the

27:23

story. But all

27:25

my wards, this

27:27

was not needed here. And

27:29

you know what, like it's

27:32

one thing to, and friends

27:34

and lovers, you're going to see it

27:36

in Mickey 17 from me in particular.

27:38

Like it's one thing to, I

27:40

guess, be facetious and generalize

27:42

a film because of

27:44

how you feel about it.

27:46

But the very shallow way that

27:48

we're describing it is exactly how

27:51

this film is. And

27:54

that's what I don't get from a

27:56

writing perspective on what they wanted

27:58

to achieve with it. I understand

28:01

maybe the German version

28:03

would have been different,

28:05

but what are we working towards?

28:08

We didn't get anywhere. With

28:11

million dollar baby, you

28:13

understood what the goal was,

28:15

what we understood what the

28:18

goal for the protagonist was

28:20

throughout, we got to see

28:22

her challenges, we got

28:25

to see everything. Here we, we

28:27

are sort of a step removed.

28:30

We are unaware

28:32

of anything about

28:34

the protagonist. Yeah,

28:37

it's it feels like

28:39

everyone wants to be

28:42

part within her circle.

28:45

Yeah, but why? Yeah. We

28:47

get this Tyrone thrips.

28:50

I was wondering

28:52

when you were going to

28:54

get to your favorite

28:57

part. Oh, man.

28:59

level of writing

29:01

character names. Hey, we need

29:03

a black boxer. Let's

29:05

name them Tyrone Thribs.

29:08

Jesus. That's that's

29:10

a boondox. That's

29:13

a boondox episode making

29:15

fun of Tyler Perry.

29:17

Oh my, anyway. This,

29:19

you know, he's an upcoming

29:22

black boxer who wants

29:24

to make it and wants

29:26

to get, you know,

29:28

an audience with the

29:31

protagonist but for

29:33

whatever reason can't

29:35

or then by the end

29:38

of it she's part of

29:40

it but she can't like

29:42

yeah yeah this movie had

29:44

a lot of things just

29:47

had me questioning

29:49

what I was watching yeah

29:52

absolutely yeah let's move

29:54

on Thank you to the

29:57

team at Warner Brothers opportunity.

29:59

to go to the screening

30:02

in I'm Max, friends and

30:04

lovers. Mickey 17. Oh, you've

30:06

picked up, hey? Feeling those

30:08

creepers all up in your

30:11

body. Mickey 17 delivers its

30:13

political message with an overzealousness

30:15

of a sledgehammer cracking and

30:17

not. Strong performances shine, but

30:20

trimming the theatrics would have

30:22

made it more impactful. Wow,

30:24

that sounds like you could

30:27

be rotten. I'm actually not

30:29

sure. I guess we can

30:31

wait for the pool quote

30:33

to go up on rotten

30:36

tomatoes friends and lovers. Whether

30:38

inspired by the book or

30:40

current politics, Mickey 17 sadly

30:42

proves we are past the

30:45

point of cartoonish caricatures. The

30:47

tone was diluted. and commentary

30:49

too heavy-handed to be as

30:51

distant as the sci-fi genre

30:54

can offer. Yeah, getting your

30:56

doom salts from it. But

30:58

too bad, we're in Sanara

31:01

Desert already, fan. It's not,

31:03

it's not... It's so special.

31:05

Yeah, well, I guess, you

31:07

know, general thought, but you

31:10

enjoyed the film. I enjoyed

31:12

the film. I enjoyed the

31:14

film. I enjoyed the film.

31:16

I enjoyed the film. I

31:19

enjoyed the film. I enjoyed

31:21

the film. I enjoyed the

31:23

film. I enjoyed the film.

31:25

I just felt the film.

31:28

I just felt... They went

31:30

to overhanded on it. Yeah,

31:32

he didn't need What was

31:35

his character's name? Mark Ruffalo

31:37

Marshall just being this character

31:39

sort of thing that was

31:41

I guess tying to try

31:44

to Trump The mannerisms the

31:46

way he spoke the mouth

31:48

thing the overbite like It

31:50

just felt unnecessary and distracting

31:53

from what the movies sort

31:55

of message was and I

31:57

felt like it could have

31:59

been done in a much

32:02

more grounded way and deliver

32:04

a more impactful

32:06

sort of product at the

32:08

end of it. Uh-huh. Because

32:11

we have your Edward guy.

32:13

Eddie Gallegi? Robert

32:15

Patinson. We have Robert

32:17

Paterson, who I think did

32:20

quite well with the role.

32:22

Talking didn't, I got used

32:24

to his weird accent. Pretty

32:27

quickly. It took me a second time

32:29

watching to get used to that. No,

32:31

I got used to it pretty quickly.

32:34

It didn't distract me. It didn't take

32:36

me out from it. It was just very

32:38

stuck because it just felt very

32:40

stuck coming from him. But I thought

32:43

he did quite well. Yeah. I thought he

32:45

did quite well on this. He's always going

32:47

to do well though. He is. But wow.

32:49

I think at the end of it,

32:51

take out everything that the

32:53

movie is. You didn't say

32:55

that about The Big Rames

32:58

movie. Because the Johnny is

33:00

fully focused on Mickey and

33:02

I think with the destruction

33:04

of Marshall here and there,

33:06

you know, whatever. You can

33:08

sweep that under the rag

33:10

a bit. It's more getting

33:12

into where how Marshall grows and

33:15

how he needed, you know, if

33:17

it's Mickey, or how Mickey

33:19

grows and whether it's Mickey

33:22

18 and all. Brother

33:24

are you doing this

33:26

review by yourself? Let's

33:29

have a repartee

33:31

if you're nesting

33:33

repartee the entire on

33:36

trips Give me a

33:38

rope ado I want to

33:40

go to the Trump comparisons

33:44

because when I shared

33:46

I didn't even like it

33:48

was a social reaction quote

33:50

where I talked about it

33:52

a little bit. I remember

33:55

I showed you this quote

33:57

that I was still going

33:59

to do. for the pool quote, but

34:01

we decided it was a bit too

34:03

much for a social media reaction when

34:06

it first, you know, when the film

34:08

first comes out, not many people get

34:10

to see it. I kind of like

34:13

rejigged it a bit, but I'm

34:15

gonna say personally, it was very

34:17

annoying. I had a handful of

34:19

people being like, well, actually, this

34:21

book wasn't even the bad Trump.

34:23

And it's like, shut the long enough.

34:25

Well, the movie is, bitch. Yeah. And

34:27

that's what annoy me, because even

34:30

if you want to say it

34:32

wasn't about Trump, it

34:34

had, I was going to

34:36

say the red insignia, like

34:38

it had, like his hats,

34:40

but it also had the

34:42

caricature and you know, this

34:44

isn't a full review friends

34:46

and lovers, this isn't even

34:49

spoiling, but you're still going

34:51

to get the FIR, O.T.

34:53

Randy balls of it all, okay? That

34:55

man. has been elected twice.

34:57

He's probably got his favorite

34:59

rooms in that white house.

35:02

We're past the point of caricatures,

35:04

friends and lovers. He's

35:06

already there. If it

35:08

makes you feel better,

35:10

sometimes us and Elleyshire,

35:12

they'll find very funny,

35:14

even John Oliver, our

35:16

favorite Brit. Aside from Ben,

35:18

we love you Ben. They'll

35:20

find funny satirical ways to

35:22

explain it, but the train

35:25

is still heading toward hell.

35:27

You know what I'm saying? And

35:29

it's like, whether you want to

35:31

say that this is about Trump

35:33

or not, it was very heavy-handed,

35:36

like you said with a sledgehammer,

35:38

like I said pretty much in

35:40

every word of what I said, like,

35:43

it's there. And it's so present.

35:45

And it didn't even need to be

35:47

there. Apparently in the book, Tony Collette,

35:49

the wife's character, wasn't even there. And

35:52

I think that would have helped to...

35:54

Well, I think she grounded him, though.

35:56

But that's what I'm saying. I'm saying it

35:58

softened the blow of the... of a

36:00

man like Marshall. And that

36:02

was my overall quam quarrel

36:04

quandary with Mickey 17. And

36:07

Bonjoon her, I love you.

36:09

I still have my table

36:11

outside of the official hive

36:13

because they won't let me

36:15

in. They definitely won't let

36:17

me in now. But I

36:20

love you, love you, love

36:22

you. The host was a

36:24

gorgeous way to meld sci-fi

36:26

as well as commentary. It

36:28

was a commentary about the

36:30

US military and its occupation

36:32

and its involvement in geopolitics

36:35

in Korea, right? That was

36:37

done so beautifully. You had

36:39

independent sci-fi elements and you

36:41

had sci-fi elements that spoke

36:43

to and was woven inside

36:45

of that same commentary. Okcha

36:48

was very jarring. The non-Korean

36:50

characters, pretty much the English-speaking

36:52

characters. I'm looking at you

36:54

guillen hall. Well, very caricatur,

36:56

were very one-sided, very one-dimensional,

36:58

and, you know, I still

37:00

have no interest in watching

37:03

civil war, but there's something

37:05

about, I think US politics

37:07

in general, unfortunately, does affect

37:09

a lot of other governments,

37:11

including Western countries. So it's

37:13

hard to not be... aware

37:16

of what's going on, it's

37:18

hard not to be affected

37:20

by it, but also at

37:22

the same time, you aren't

37:24

on the ground in US

37:26

politics. So to make commentary

37:28

on that, it kind of

37:31

shows, like, the proof is

37:33

in the pudding essentially. So

37:35

I didn't care for that.

37:37

I would also say that

37:39

it didn't need to be

37:41

that extreme. of essentially friends

37:44

and lovers and if you've

37:46

watched a trailer, Mickey signs

37:48

up to be what's called

37:50

an expendable. So his life

37:52

does not matter and for

37:54

his actual job, he will

37:56

lose his life many times.

37:59

And to me, there's no...

38:01

No need for that to

38:03

be so extreme because unfortunately

38:05

at the hands of capitalism,

38:07

people are dying all the time.

38:09

So why are we, why are we

38:12

frolicking with big teeth ruffalo,

38:14

trying to find some giggle

38:16

goggles about human printing

38:19

and the ethics of it? You

38:21

see what I'm saying? No I hear,

38:23

yeah. I agree with you for most

38:26

part. It's, it's... In as much as

38:28

I did enjoy aspects, I did enjoy

38:30

a lot of things in the movie.

38:32

I think the only sort of

38:34

thing that took me out, like

38:36

I've said, was the theatrics around

38:38

it. You cannot say it's not

38:40

about Trump when it's very clear,

38:42

even if it's not, you made

38:44

sure that it painted that way.

38:46

Yeah. And you can't divorce the

38:49

movie from it. It's like watching

38:51

the heart and then Lindelov coming

38:53

out and saying, oh no, this

38:55

was not about it. Just

38:57

and there was nothing wrong with it

38:59

wrong. There's nothing wrong. Yeah, there's

39:02

nothing wrong But trying to gas

39:04

like people into thinking that oh no,

39:06

it's not when it is Because we

39:08

can make all the action and you're

39:10

very clear what you know one plus one

39:12

is two quick mouths Yeah, absolutely

39:14

agree But yeah, like outside of that

39:17

other bullshit. It worked. I

39:19

loved Mickey's sort of relationship

39:21

with I know you don't think it

39:23

was love. I still feels love and

39:25

I enjoyed every aspect of it I

39:27

guess what I will say is

39:30

maybe we just have

39:32

a very different definition

39:35

of love and I

39:37

hate that I'm being

39:39

so considerate about such

39:42

a slack slapstick

39:44

Jim Kerry level

39:46

movie. But we are, we're,

39:49

well, it was, it was

39:51

pandering and it was

39:53

being dumb, baby. Really?

39:58

And you did... I didn't

40:01

enjoy Shrek. Exactly. I don't

40:03

Shrek just didn't appreciate it.

40:05

Just know who the martial

40:08

is in this podcast, 13.

40:10

Wow. Yeah, I said it.

40:13

Hey, Tyrone strips of the

40:15

knockout. We're all deserving of

40:18

love, friends and lovers, even

40:20

if we don't love ourselves.

40:23

Mickey was so pathetic. And

40:25

I don't mean that in

40:28

the mean way, he was

40:30

just very pathetic. He was

40:33

very down on himself. You

40:35

enjoyed that macaron joke as

40:38

well. But it just felt

40:40

like he was just happy

40:42

to get any attention. Nasha...

40:45

I don't know, there were

40:47

some moments later in the

40:50

film that I was like,

40:52

and you even were like,

40:55

oh she loves this man.

40:57

Like, you know what I

41:00

mean, but it felt very

41:02

possessive, it felt very controlling.

41:05

Possessive and controlling. Brother. Just

41:07

because I don't want to

41:10

share Mickey A.T. Who's another

41:12

girl? Fair. No. Both Mickey's

41:15

and Mickey's. Well, let's get

41:17

to that. Let's have some

41:19

fun routine. Miki's 17, Miki

41:22

18, which isn't too much

41:24

of a spoiler if you've

41:27

watched any trailer, or any

41:29

interview, that's how I got

41:32

spoiled that there were two

41:34

Miki's. Well, can I have

41:37

two Otis? Like, let's talk

41:39

about the moral quandre. It's

41:42

our favorite genre, friends of

41:44

lovers, go and check out

41:47

our cube episode. Thoughts. Mickey-17,

41:49

Mickey 18, uploading the same

41:52

memories to separate bodies. Are

41:54

they the same person? They're

41:56

the same person. I think

41:59

so. What is just a

42:01

vessel? Everything else is

42:04

what makes a person. Wow.

42:06

Yeah. Come with a flip's

42:08

energy fact. It is the

42:10

same person. It's, and that's

42:13

why I was with Nasha

42:15

saying like, no, I'm not

42:18

gonna split Mickey 1719 for

42:20

what? Still, Nike. Yeah.

42:22

It's just different

42:24

personalities, but it's

42:27

still the same person.

42:29

Yeah, but wouldn't. Okay,

42:31

Batman Boy. I convinced

42:34

the co-worker, apparently

42:37

there are two books, O.T.

42:39

I convinced the co-worker to

42:42

read the book because she

42:44

also loves sci-fi, and I

42:47

just needed to know things

42:49

in the film or that

42:52

weren't in the film. And

42:54

apparently... When I

42:56

was speaking to her she

42:58

was saying that she was

43:00

really feeling conflicted about the

43:02

two mikies Oh, and Nasha

43:04

trying to Nash on that

43:06

knob, right? Those knobs. It

43:09

was a double-sided door with

43:11

double knobs What conflicted

43:13

in what way? Because to her

43:16

there were two different people.

43:18

Oh, apparently in the book.

43:20

There's a captain that gives like an

43:22

example of if you have a ship

43:24

and you constantly change the parts. So

43:27

all of the parts out of there

43:29

weren't a part of the original ship,

43:31

is that still the same ship? So

43:33

I guess they wanted to make it

43:36

more sexy in this film and they

43:38

talked about that Mickey 17, Mickey 18,

43:40

but they also used the serial killer

43:42

example, which might also be in the

43:44

book as well. But she seemed so

43:46

like, she's like, oh, I guess Nasho

43:48

is free-spirited and I'm like... You're not

43:50

going to the sex shame, I'm not

43:52

sure, excuse me very much, but I

43:54

can't say that on the team's chat.

43:56

But I just thought it was interesting

43:58

that she had such a... Like it

44:01

she went through

44:03

such a tizzy

44:05

because to her

44:07

that's so sexually

44:09

promiscuous and me

44:11

me I was

44:13

like I I

44:15

have no dramas

44:17

there I'm all

44:19

worried about the

44:21

implications of colonialism

44:24

I felt like... I

44:26

hope you don't think

44:28

I'm adorable because it

44:30

was some ugly motherfuggers.

44:33

You didn't feel like

44:35

riding your hand through

44:37

those little legs? We

44:39

know what sort of

44:41

anime you watch your

44:43

tea. There's the FYR

44:45

anime watching and then

44:48

there's the er tea

44:50

in the dark corner.

44:52

Love Tony Collette. Yeah.

44:54

But I feel like

44:56

there needs to be

44:58

a distinction made friends

45:00

and others. Great performance

45:03

does not a great

45:05

film make. Yeah, I

45:07

think the performances were

45:09

very strong, but I

45:11

think they're smooth in

45:13

as much as I

45:15

enjoy it. I wouldn't

45:18

categorize it. I wouldn't

45:20

categorise it as great.

45:22

I wouldn't categorise it

45:24

as. But it doesn't

45:26

have to be great.

45:28

It doesn't have to

45:30

be great. Things can

45:33

just be good. Wouldn't

45:35

it be okay? Oh,

45:37

lopsided. Yeah. We don't

45:39

teach them as well.

45:41

Why are you looking

45:43

at me? From a

45:45

distance they look quite

45:47

evenly shaped. Okay? Wow!

45:50

But yeah, there we

45:52

have it, Oti. Is

45:54

there anything else you

45:56

want to add? No,

45:58

it's, it's, I think.

46:00

One of the fast-reft

46:02

marks we've done with

46:05

that haven't contained

46:07

a lot of

46:09

enjoyable stuff we've

46:11

watched throughout. Damn, dark.

46:14

No, it's speaking truth

46:16

to power. Who's the

46:18

power? We're independent.

46:20

Because if you're

46:23

finding the man, you're

46:25

the man! Purchase, you're

46:27

the long life battle

46:29

with yourself, bird. You're

46:32

right though, you're right.

46:34

There was definitely a lot

46:37

more that we could

46:39

cover as well, so

46:41

you know, subscribe friends

46:43

and lovers to get

46:45

more joy for Ote. Thank

46:48

you so much friends and

46:50

lovers for joining us another

46:52

week in the four-year-old friends

46:54

podcast Do you have any

46:56

watching companions for anything we've

46:58

covered just because you know

47:01

you said it was a

47:03

bit of not as positive

47:05

all the time? Are there any watching

47:07

companions you would have

47:09

for these films? The host the

47:11

host will be good million dollar

47:14

baby. You got anything else?

47:16

On Twitter, until the wheels

47:18

fall off and they're all

47:20

falling off and they're burning on

47:23

their cyber truck already, we're

47:25

on Blue Sky, we're on

47:27

Instagram and Threads, they've lifted

47:29

the block of me commenting

47:32

and posting so I'm on

47:34

Instagram and Threads, I'm

47:36

on Instagram and Threads

47:38

against Friends and Lovers, we're out

47:41

of your phone. We're also on

47:43

the magical society of OT

47:45

podcast. If you like

47:48

to be berating

47:50

a review, I

47:52

will see you

47:54

guys on the

47:56

next one. Tyrone

47:58

creeps out! You