Episode Transcript
Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.
Use Ctrl + F to search
0:00
This BBC podcast is supported by
0:02
by outside the UK. UK. If
0:06
you're hearing this, you're probably
0:08
already listening to BBC's award -winning
0:10
news news But did you
0:12
know know you can listen to
0:14
them without ads? without Get
0:16
current affairs affairs podcasts News, News, America's and
0:18
Global Story, plus other great
0:20
BBC podcasts from history from
0:22
comedy to true crime, crime. ad free.
0:24
Simply Simply subscribe to BBC podcast
0:26
on Apple Podcasts or listen to
0:28
Amazon Music with a prime
0:31
membership. prime less time on
0:33
ads and more time with
0:35
BBC podcasts. Morning Morning
0:38
people wake up for peace and quiet. McDonald's
0:41
breakfast people, we wake
0:43
up for the sweet rush of getting
0:45
that warm, delicious breakfast right
0:47
before it ends. Crush your
0:50
morning goals with a steak, egg and
0:52
cheese bagel, or any breakfast sandwich, and
0:54
snag another one for just a buck with the
0:56
Buy One Get One deal. Only
0:58
in the McDonald's app. Limited time
1:01
only at participating McDonald's. Valid
1:03
once per day. Must opt into rewards. Bottom
1:05
up, buh-buh. valid
1:08
ones per day must opt into
1:11
rewards. Bottom up up up.
1:13
Hello. Today, Today South in
1:15
the South Korean soul, where where
1:18
memories of the country's
1:20
past bloomed large the the
1:22
President declared martial law this
1:24
week. In In South Africa
1:26
our correspondent descends into
1:28
the hidden underground world of
1:30
the country's illegal illegal We're
1:32
in the bustling city
1:34
of of Almaty in Kazakhstan, where where
1:36
are are living in the
1:38
shadows, having escaped detention
1:40
in China's province. And in and
1:42
in Ireland the governing coalition was
1:44
returned to power this week, the
1:46
but the veneer of stability may
1:49
be more fragile than it looks. first
1:51
to But first which the which the
1:53
United Nations has described as biggest crisis
1:55
in the world. world. The The
1:58
northeast African country has been been a
2:00
brutal civil war between the regular
2:02
army and the paramilitary rapid support
2:05
forces. Both sides have been accused
2:07
of war crimes. Since fighting began
2:09
in April last year it's estimated
2:11
that tens of thousands of people
2:14
have been killed on more than
2:16
11 million displaced. Few journalists have
2:18
been permitted to travel to Darfur,
2:20
where much of the fighting has
2:23
taken place. But our chief international
2:25
correspondent, Lees Doucette, managed to gain
2:27
access by travelling with the UN.
2:29
Her report starts in Port Sudan.
2:32
Where is my mother? Where is
2:34
my father? That's what Noor Hussain
2:36
keeps asking. She's asked it all
2:39
her life. Even now, 52 years
2:41
old, with children of her own.
2:43
She says she keeps asking. The
2:45
Sudanese orphan is called Mama Noor
2:48
now. She's a mother, a godsend,
2:50
to more than 8,000 people so
2:52
far who've come through her centre
2:54
which shelters orphans, as well as
2:57
single women pregnant through accident abuse.
2:59
or the rampant sexual violence of
3:01
this war. And she helps them
3:03
keep their children, so there aren't
3:06
more orphans like her. Her foundation
3:08
is called Shama, The Candle. Even
3:10
her smile lights up the room
3:12
in her new makeshift centre in
3:15
a humble mud building in a
3:17
dirt yard. But Mama Noor, big
3:19
in every way, is also steely
3:22
like a tank. When Sudan's heinous
3:24
war erupted last year in the
3:26
capital cartoon, armed men turned their
3:28
guns on her, ordering her to
3:31
hand over the women and girls
3:33
in her care, Mama Noor stood
3:35
her ground. She fled with them
3:37
to Central Sudan. War followed them
3:40
there. So they headed north to
3:42
the city of Port Sudan on
3:44
the Red Sea, which has turned
3:46
into a hub for an aid
3:49
community struggling to respond to the
3:51
enormous needs. We met Mama Noor
3:53
on our visit to Sudan, a
3:55
neighbouring Chad, with the UN's new
3:58
humanitarian Fletcher, he chose Sudan as
4:00
his first mission, to highlight that
4:02
in a world of all too
4:04
many crises, Sudan is the worst
4:07
in every way. But he calls
4:09
Sudan's war the invisible war, because
4:11
it's not getting the aid, the
4:14
intention, being directed to other grievous
4:16
wars, including Gaza and Ukraine. But
4:18
it's not invisible to the Sudanese,
4:20
to the aid workers, and not
4:23
invisible if you manage to travel
4:25
to Sudan. but it's so hard
4:27
for journalists to get visas to
4:29
get there. Too few have been
4:32
able to be on the ground,
4:34
most of all in Darfur, where
4:36
the worst of the worst is
4:38
happening, where famine has already been
4:41
declared in one area, where ethnic
4:43
cleansing is happening again. Two decades
4:45
ago, Darfur dominated the headlines when
4:47
an infamous Arab militia, known as
4:50
the Janjouid, targeted and terrorized non-Arab
4:52
communities. The International Criminal Court issued
4:54
indictments against the then President Omar
4:56
al-Basir on three counts of genocide.
4:59
He continues to evade arrest. Now
5:01
it is the paramilitary forces which
5:03
rose from the Janjaweed, the rapid
5:06
support forces, the RSF, along with
5:08
their Arab allies, who are being
5:10
accused once again of massacres so
5:12
systematic, human rights groups call it
5:15
a possible genocide. The RSF, which
5:17
now controls most of Darfur, is
5:19
locked in battle with the Sudanese
5:21
military to take charge in Sudan.
5:24
Human rights groups say the army
5:26
has also turned its guns and
5:28
warplanes on its own people. Both
5:30
sides deny they've committed atrocities. But
5:33
we heard so many terrible stories.
5:35
We heard them at an informal
5:37
camp near the main border crossing
5:39
into Darfur in neighbouring Chad. A
5:42
vast open field stretching in every
5:44
direction. The biggest crowd of its
5:46
kind all of us had ever
5:49
seen. An anxious crowd of women
5:51
and their children from Darfur. women
5:53
who surrounded us said they all
5:55
came from Elginina about an hour's
5:58
drive away. They all spoke of
6:00
losing their loved ones. Of their
6:02
belongings looted, their houses burned. They
6:04
killed my aunties, they killed my
6:07
uncles, they killed all the men
6:09
in my family. A 14-year-old girl
6:11
told us, speaking calmly and quietly.
6:13
Everyone was asking, just like Mama
6:16
Noor, where is my father? Where
6:18
are my loved ones? We crossed
6:20
the official border into Darfur, on
6:22
a road no more than a
6:25
dirt track, across a desolate semi-desert
6:27
plateau, dotted by half-built and abandoned
6:29
houses, until we reached the outskirts
6:31
of Elginina. and travelled through a
6:34
ghost town, chillingly silent. It told
6:36
the stories we heard from the
6:38
women, loud and clear, the charred
6:41
houses, the empty shops, where shutters
6:43
were smashed, the neighbourhoods where you
6:45
could still taste the smoke from
6:47
the fires which burned here, where
6:50
you can still feel the horror
6:52
of what happened, suffering without limits.
6:54
That's what Mama Noor calls it.
6:56
like so many Sudanese we met.
6:59
She told us it was up
7:01
to the Sudanese themselves to stop
7:03
it, to tell all those harming
7:05
the people, shame on you. But
7:08
she knows, everyone knows, how hard
7:10
it's been to stop this war,
7:12
to stop the flow of arms
7:14
from powerful countries in this region
7:17
with their own interests. The people
7:19
of Sudan know they can't do
7:21
this on their own. They need
7:24
help. To end this fight, help
7:26
just to feed the people. Even
7:28
Mama Noor has had to admit.
7:30
We're exhausted. Lee's du set. It's
7:32
been an unexpectedly turbulent week in
7:35
South Korea. In a live televised
7:37
address to the nation, President Yun
7:39
declared martial law to save the
7:41
country from what he called anti-state
7:43
forces among his domestic political opponents.
7:45
Marshall law was last introduced in
7:47
the country in 1979, sparked by
7:49
the assassination of a former military
7:52
ruler in a coup. Today, South
7:54
Korea a far cry from its
7:56
past, widely recognized as a stable
7:58
and prosperous democracy, which is why
8:00
the announcement sent shockwaves around the
8:02
world. Jake Kwan describes the moment
8:04
the President made his announcement, and
8:06
the swift decisive response both by
8:09
MPs and South Korean citizens. I
8:11
don't remember the dictatorship. I was
8:13
born in the same year South
8:15
Korea's last dictator John Duhan stepped
8:17
down. I learned about the curfews
8:19
and nighttime arrests that defined that
8:21
era in newsreals and movies. And
8:23
the stories my father told me.
8:26
He would grow agitated whenever he
8:28
talked about those old stories. throwing
8:30
air punches at an imaginary Mr.
8:32
Chun. But when he called me
8:34
after hearing President Yunso Guil had
8:36
just declared martial law, I didn't
8:38
hear indignation or anger, but fear
8:40
in his voice. I told him,
8:42
I'm going to the National Assembly
8:45
to report on what was going
8:47
on. He told me not to
8:49
go. He said, it's dangerous. They'll
8:51
arrest you. I remember laughing off
8:53
his concerns, feigning nonchalance. I'm a
8:55
journalist, working for foreign media. They
8:57
will not touch me, I said.
8:59
You don't know what they can
9:02
do," he replied. I told him
9:04
nothing bad would happen, but I
9:06
don't think I fully believed it
9:08
myself. I had already heard the
9:10
news before my dad called when
9:12
I got notifications on my phone.
9:14
I assumed it was a mistake.
9:16
But when I saw President Yun's
9:19
address to the nation on television,
9:21
I realized it was all too
9:23
real. My hands were shaking so
9:25
much, I had trouble typing out
9:27
his speech for the news bulletin.
9:29
There was a big lump in
9:31
my throat. This is 2024 in
9:33
Seoul, South Korea. This couldn't happen
9:36
here. I always told people, this
9:38
is one of Asia's very few
9:40
democracies. Reading about the 1987 movement
9:42
that restored free and direct elections,
9:44
after nearly 30 years of autocratic
9:46
rule, it always filled me with
9:48
a sense of pride. But now,
9:50
the president had just declared martial
9:52
law. My phone was frantically beeping
9:55
every few minutes as news alerts
9:57
post incessant updates. The general has
9:59
given the order. No more freedom
10:01
of press, one alert read. No
10:03
more political parties. No more gatherings.
10:05
We made a beeline for the
10:07
National Assembly in Yongdingpo District, where
10:09
lawmakers were gathering just like us.
10:12
politicians were doing everything they could
10:14
to get into the building. It
10:16
had emerged that the only way
10:18
to cancel the martial law is
10:20
for 150 MPs to gather and
10:22
vote against it. One told me
10:24
over the phone that fully armed
10:26
soldiers were already in the Assembly
10:29
building. Helic Helicopters were landing on
10:31
its roof carrying special forces. All
10:33
the civil servants and lawmakers were
10:35
stacking up chairs, tables, whatever they
10:37
could find to barricade the building
10:39
to prevent soldiers from coming in.
10:41
Another MP was completely out of
10:43
breath when he answered my call.
10:46
The police blocked him from entering
10:48
the assembly grounds. He gathered a
10:50
few citizen supporters to help him
10:52
clamber over the fence and was
10:54
now sprinting to the main hall.
10:56
I arrived to find a chaotic
10:58
scene. The sound of sirens pierced
11:00
the air. Red and blue flashes
11:03
of police cars illuminated the darkness,
11:05
and police were lining up along
11:07
the fences around the assembly grounds.
11:09
As I was running to the
11:11
gate, I could hear the surrounding
11:13
crowd chant, Down with autocrat! No,
11:15
no martial law! Hundreds of protesters
11:17
of all ages were there, from
11:19
young students to the elderly, despite
11:22
the icy temperatures. It was hard
11:24
to believe that this crowd was
11:26
technically now illegal. South Korea, without
11:28
protest, is like a meal without
11:30
rice. It's such a crucial part
11:32
of the culture, and the people
11:34
know how to turn it into
11:36
a party, packed with songs, group
11:39
chants, dances, and open mic sessions.
11:41
Inside the assembly building, things were
11:43
a lot more violent. We saw
11:45
dramatic videos of AIDS spraying fire
11:47
extinguishers at the soldiers while a
11:49
female lawmaker grabbed the barrel of
11:51
a gun screaming at the soldier,
11:53
aren't you ashamed? Outside, one protester
11:56
climbed on an impromptu stage and
11:58
started shouting, I am a UN
12:00
voter, which is a pretty bright
12:02
to say in public these days.
12:04
President Yun has been very very
12:06
unpopular well before this fiasco. Then
12:08
he said, but he had really
12:10
crossed the line. I regret voting
12:13
for him. And the crowd cheered.
12:15
A little after 1 a.m. a
12:17
large cheer burst up from the
12:19
crowd. We won! We won! they
12:21
said. The 190 lawmakers who somehow
12:23
hopped the fence were snuck inside
12:25
the building had unanimously voted to
12:27
strike down martial law. For people
12:29
like me who don't remember the
12:32
time of a strongman, and that
12:34
includes nearly all the police and
12:36
soldiers we saw that night, many
12:38
of us were thinking, it cannot
12:40
happen here. And for those who
12:42
remember the time before, it's a
12:44
reminder that it could. An old
12:46
man watching from afar told me
12:49
he remembers the military rule. It
12:51
was a terrible time, he said,
12:53
and having lived through it, he
12:55
had to come out tonight. It
12:57
cannot happen here again. Jay Kwan.
12:59
Next we're in Kazakhstan, where many
13:01
Uyghurs and ethnic Kazakhs have fled
13:03
from neighbouring Xinjiang province in China's
13:06
northwest. The region is rich in
13:08
farming and home to China's lucrative
13:10
tomato industry, which has been linked
13:12
to forced labour among the Uyghur
13:14
people and other largely Muslim minorities.
13:16
The UN has accused the Chinese
13:18
state of torture and abuse. And
13:20
although China views these minority communities
13:23
as a security risk, it denies
13:25
it forces people to work in
13:27
the tomato industry and says workers'
13:29
rights are protected by law. I'm
13:31
sitting in a pretty unremarkable landrover
13:33
in an otherwise entirely empty car
13:35
park when a white vehicle slowly
13:37
pulls up, in an otherwise entirely
13:39
empty car park, when a white
13:42
vehicle slowly pulls up directly in
13:44
front of us. Its driver, a
13:46
man with a mop of brown
13:48
hair draped over his face and
13:50
wearing sunglasses, stares at us through
13:52
his rear view mirror. This is
13:54
the car park equivalent of someone
13:56
sitting to you on an empty
13:59
bus and I'm nervous. This is
14:01
the second time this has happened
14:03
and I wonder are we being
14:05
followed? Is this in fact an
14:07
effort to let us know we're
14:09
being watched? Well it's almost impossible
14:11
to say but after two weeks
14:13
in Kazakhstan I'm left feeling on
14:16
edge looking over my shoulder at
14:18
practically every turn and as I'm
14:20
to learn this is part of
14:22
the everyday reality of the people
14:24
I'm here to meet. I arrive
14:26
in the bustling metropolis of Almaty,
14:28
Kazakhstan's second city to meet Uyghurs
14:30
and ethnic Kazakhs, who fled persecution,
14:33
including forced labour, mass detention and
14:35
other serious human rights abuses in
14:37
Xinjiang in northwest China. The UN
14:39
has detailed these abuses, but China
14:41
says their report is based on
14:43
disinformation and lies. China and Kazakhstan
14:45
share a border, so it's no
14:47
surprise the country is home to
14:49
a sizable community of people who
14:52
once called Xinjiang home. But barely
14:54
anyone is willing to risk speaking
14:56
to us. I meet one ethnic
14:58
Kazakh woman who was once detained
15:00
in China. Let's call her Samal
15:02
in the offices of a human
15:04
rights lawyer. But even here, we
15:06
have to be careful. Lawyer Aina
15:09
tells me she's often under surveillance.
15:11
Her car has been followed. She's
15:13
faced intimidation by strangers in the
15:15
street. Why? Because of her work
15:17
helping escapees like Samal. Her office
15:19
walls were painted with quotes and
15:21
phrases related to her work. Freedom
15:23
of association, freedom of rights. Free
15:26
speech, but I sense that no
15:28
one here feels fully free. We
15:30
sit next to an open window.
15:32
Somal frequently breaks eye contact with
15:34
me to look outside, then swings
15:36
round to look over at the
15:38
table where her phone sits, buzzing
15:40
and ringing constantly. We speak mostly
15:43
in Mandarin. Somal lives on her
15:45
phone, but not in that social
15:47
media-obsessed way that many of us
15:49
do. Her phone holds a direct
15:51
line to everything, everyone she loved
15:53
and left back home in China.
15:55
day in, day out, she sits
15:57
phone in hand waiting and hoping
15:59
for updates and word from relatives
16:02
yet to make it out. I
16:04
ask about life before things started
16:06
to change in Xinjiang. Back in
16:08
China, Somal had been the breadwinner
16:10
for her family and had a
16:12
stable job. I spent my whole
16:14
life working a job, being honest
16:16
and loyal. I couldn't imagine that
16:19
my life would turn out like
16:21
this, Somal tells me. But in
16:23
2015, everything changed. It felt like
16:25
the sky fell into the earth,
16:27
she says. She'd been on a
16:29
trip to Kazakhstan to visit relatives,
16:31
and when she returned to Xinjiang,
16:33
she was detained, she was told,
16:36
for making too many trips to
16:38
Kazakhstan. During her detention in a
16:40
camp, she was responsible for looking
16:42
after many of the elderly who'd
16:44
been taken in alongside her. She
16:46
tells me how the elderly were
16:48
mistreated and that Uyghur people in
16:50
particular were treated mercilessly. Those that
16:53
were able to were forced to
16:55
work, she says with no pay.
16:57
She says she also learned how
16:59
China has used forced labour on
17:01
a vast scale to produce tomatoes,
17:03
something China denies. She tells me
17:05
a son of her relative was
17:07
made to work in the industry.
17:10
Through him, she found out that
17:12
these tomatoes were being shipped across
17:14
the world, and that the younger,
17:16
able-bodied and less educated were targeted
17:18
for this forced labour. We'd come
17:20
to Kazakhstan to find out more
17:22
about people like her. I wonder
17:24
what are the chances of her
17:26
finding a fresh start here in
17:29
Kazakhstan. Currently, Somal has the right
17:31
to remain, as she's ethnically Kazakh,
17:33
but she's awaiting the outcome of
17:35
her application for citizenship. She's in
17:37
limbo, and with no knowledge of
17:39
Russian, most people, like Somal, feel
17:41
completely alone. You can officially call
17:43
us the walking dead, she muses.
17:46
She was released from detention in
17:48
Xinjiang on the condition that she
17:50
wouldn't speak about what happened in
17:52
the camps, but this has left
17:54
her even more isolated. Stories like
17:56
hers, she says, were supposed to
17:58
stay secret. The world isn't supposed
18:00
to know what. happening in Xinjiang.
18:03
She tells me there are eyes
18:05
everywhere there, speaking of the surveillance
18:07
for which the region is now
18:09
known. But the community here in
18:11
Kazakhstan also fears the long arm
18:13
of the Chinese state, and that
18:15
the close diplomatic ties between the
18:17
two countries could mean these eyes
18:20
of following her to Kazakhstan too.
18:22
This is why Somal can't relax.
18:24
Why, while trying to investigate this
18:26
story here, I felt I couldn't
18:28
either. Why Somal is always looking
18:30
out of that window. The pressure
18:32
still haunts us, she says, even
18:34
here. If
18:37
you're hearing this, you're probably already
18:40
listening to BBC's award-winning news podcasts.
18:42
But did you know that you
18:44
can listen to them without ads?
18:46
Get current affairs podcasts like Global
18:49
News, Ameriast and The Global Story,
18:51
plus other great BBC podcasts from
18:53
history to comedy to true crime.
18:55
All ad free. Simply subscribe to
18:58
BBC podcast premium on Apple podcasts
19:00
or listen to Amazon music with
19:02
a prime membership. Spend less time
19:04
on ads and more time with
19:07
BBC podcasts. In
19:11
South Africa, there's an ongoing standoff
19:13
between the authorities and hundreds, possibly
19:16
thousands, of illegal workers living down
19:18
an abandoned gold mine southwest of
19:20
Johannesburg. A government minister promised to
19:22
smoke out the miners, and security
19:25
forces briefly stopped food and water
19:27
from being sent down the mine
19:29
before a court ruled against them.
19:32
South Africa accounts for nearly a
19:34
third of all the gold ever
19:36
mined. But with many old mines
19:39
closed in recent years, illegal mining
19:41
has become rife. Nomsa Masseco recalls
19:43
her first time entering this hidden
19:46
world. I can still remember the
19:48
smell of decomposing flesh. It was
19:50
my first time visiting a mine
19:53
in the town of Springs just
19:55
east of Johannesburg, where of illegal
19:57
miners had died during a rock
19:59
fall after they used dynamite to
20:02
expose the gold ore from the
20:04
rock beneath the earth surface. Police
20:06
who were on the scene said
20:09
it would be too risky to
20:11
rescue those whose screams and cries
20:13
for help could be heard above
20:16
ground. Some of the illegal miners
20:18
said a bolder the size of
20:20
a car killed their fellow countrymen
20:23
who was from Zimbabwe. They couldn't
20:25
bring his body to the surface,
20:27
so they tore a piece of
20:29
fabric from the dead miners' t-shirt
20:32
and handed it over to his
20:34
sobbing wife. That was 11 years
20:36
ago, but it's a story that
20:39
will forever be etched in my
20:41
memory. A subsequent investigation into illicit
20:43
mining then led me to a
20:46
group of Zamazamas. illegal workers from
20:48
neighboring Lesotho. I was aware of
20:50
the dangers the supposedly friendly gang
20:53
came with. I got to learn
20:55
about their lives and how unemployment
20:57
forced them into crime. My new
20:59
acquaintances were often armed with AK-47s
21:02
and knives. At first, I gave
21:04
them a camera to film underground.
21:06
I gave up on it after
21:09
a week when they didn't return,
21:11
but I was surprised when I
21:13
received a call a month later
21:16
with incredible footage of their life
21:18
underground. The gang controlled what had
21:20
become a little town, complete with
21:23
markets and a red light district
21:25
deep underground at a disused mine
21:27
in Benoni, east of Joberg. After
21:29
some time, I plucked up the
21:32
courage to go down the shaft,
21:34
taking a creaking lift, 1,500 meters
21:36
below the surface. I struggled to
21:39
breathe. It was hot. I felt
21:41
the makeup melt from my forehead.
21:43
salty sweat stang my eyelashes. The
21:46
torch I held in front of
21:48
me lit up my way, and
21:50
there it was, specs of gold
21:53
were visible on the crevices of
21:55
the side walls, indicating the presence
21:57
of gold deposits. I was distracted
21:59
by the sound digging in the
22:02
distance. We were told it was
22:04
likely a rival group searching for
22:06
their own fortune using rudimentary tools.
22:09
We went on through the cave
22:11
to an extremely expensive underground market.
22:13
Items sell at four to five
22:16
times the normal price. Bread, canned
22:18
tuna fish, boiled eggs, maquieu, a
22:20
high-energy drink made from fermenting maize
22:23
mill in water. Batteries and tortures
22:25
were also on display and selling
22:27
fast. This is just the sort
22:29
of existence that the miners deep
22:32
underground at another disused gold mine
22:34
in Stillfrontane, a living in the
22:36
Northwest Province. And it's the subject
22:39
of a major standoff between illegal
22:41
workers and South African authorities who
22:43
want to put a stop to
22:46
illegal mining. part of a policy
22:48
called Operation Valomgodi, or plug the
22:50
hole. The gangs underground make more
22:53
money now than ever before. Many
22:55
of them are former mine workers
22:57
made redundant when gold mines closed
22:59
down in the 90s. They went
23:02
back underground to make money for
23:04
their families, the only way they
23:06
know. The standoff between the Zamazamas
23:09
and police is unlikely to end
23:11
any time soon. as illegal mining
23:13
has become highly lucrative for everyone
23:16
involved in the salusive industry. To
23:18
curb the problem, the army has
23:20
been deployed to close down all
23:23
shafts that were left exposed by
23:25
mine owners, but the gangs are
23:27
using their high caliber weapons to
23:30
keep them at bay. I met
23:32
up with Dumiso, a Zamazama in
23:34
Still Fontaine. He resurfaced a week
23:36
before the government crackdown began. He'd
23:39
been underground since mid-September and normally
23:41
stays there for three months at
23:43
a time. Dumiso told me about
23:46
the countless dead bodies trapped below
23:48
the surface. Some were killed by
23:50
rival gangs and robbed of their
23:53
gold while others perished from rock
23:55
falls, he tells me. Despite this,
23:57
Dumiso and many others keep going
24:00
back in the hope of finding
24:02
more He joined a syndicate which
24:04
ensures his protection while underground and
24:06
also ensures that the gold is
24:09
sold to the highest bidder once
24:11
he's back on the surface. Many
24:13
have been calling on the government
24:16
to go after the kingpins instead
24:18
of the workers underground. But allegations
24:20
that top officials could be involved
24:23
in even ringleaders, which they deny,
24:25
would make this problem difficult to
24:27
police. And although life underground is
24:30
fraught with danger, it's a risk
24:32
thousands lightened to me so are
24:34
willing to take in the absence
24:36
of other available work. Nomsa Maseko.
24:39
Ireland's elections last weekend did not
24:41
prove to be a political game
24:43
changer, unlike other polls this year.
24:46
The two main parties received an
24:48
equal share of the vote, and
24:50
following a coalition agreement made in
24:53
2020 in which they agreed to
24:55
rotate the leadership, Michel Martin will
24:57
return as Taoiseach for the second
25:00
time. This consensus all seems pretty
25:02
straightforward to an outsider, but scratch
25:04
the surface and there's an underlying
25:06
anti-establishment sentiment, says Chris Page. The
25:09
country on the edge of Europe
25:11
emerged from its election as an
25:13
international outlier. Ireland has opted to
25:16
give its government of the last
25:18
five years another half decade in
25:20
power. The people's decision bucks the
25:23
trend of the many elections around
25:25
the world this year. where most
25:27
incumbents have either been voted out
25:30
or sustain significant losses. Ireland also
25:32
stands apart economically because it's not
25:34
running a deficit. Opposition parties had
25:36
argued that although Ireland is a
25:39
rich country, people felt poor because
25:41
of the high cost of housing
25:43
and basic needs. And yet the
25:46
centre-right governing parties, Fina Fall and
25:48
Fina Gail, grew their share of
25:50
the vote. So on the face
25:53
of it, Ireland has chosen stability
25:55
amidst the global volatility. But if
25:57
you dig a little deeper... are
26:00
signs of dissatisfaction and disconnectedness. Futer
26:02
turnout was low by Irish standards.
26:04
And in a constituency right in
26:06
the heart of the nation's capital,
26:09
the most controversial candidate, only just
26:11
missed out on winning a seat.
26:13
Gerard Hutch is probably the most
26:16
prominent gangland leader in Ireland. He's
26:18
in the category of criminal bosses
26:20
whose notoriety has got them a
26:23
nickname. In the press, documentaries, and
26:25
at least one drama film, Hutch
26:27
is known as The Monk, because
26:30
of his supposed clean living lifestyle.
26:32
Last year, he was acquitted of
26:34
murdering a man during a boxing
26:37
way in at a hotel in
26:39
Dublin, but a judge said he
26:41
was the patriarchal figurehead of a
26:43
crime organisation. Hutch stood in the
26:46
constituency of Dublin Central, a place
26:48
where the difference between prosperity and
26:50
poverty is especially stark. The Northern
26:53
Bank of the River Liffey is
26:55
home to the International Financial Services
26:57
Centre, a glassy, glossy block which
27:00
houses bankers, fund managers and investors.
27:02
But a few minutes walk away
27:04
is the North Inner City, one
27:07
of the most deprived areas of
27:09
Ireland. There are serious problems of
27:11
drug dependency, dereliction and homelessness. Gerard
27:13
Hutch is from here, though he's
27:16
moved to a much more affluent
27:18
area. He had only a few
27:20
posters and one truck with a
27:23
billboard, but a local man told
27:25
me Hutch was very popular here
27:27
and he would be the best
27:30
member of parliament they'd ever had.
27:32
he'd get things done for people.
27:34
Another woman said the prospect of
27:37
Hutch being elected was scary. It
27:39
would be terrible for the country.
27:41
Electoral opponents warned the media against
27:43
treating Hutch as a kind of
27:46
celebrity. Some described him as an
27:48
affront to Ireland. But Hutch's social
27:50
media suggested he saw all this
27:53
as fuel for his cause. For
27:55
several hours on the second day.
27:57
the lengthy election count, he seemed
28:00
odds on to take a seat.
28:02
When Hutch arrived, he answered some
28:04
initial questions from reporters about his
28:07
campaign. But when he was asked
28:09
about crime, his friendly demeanor changed
28:11
instantly. He told one journalist he
28:13
was a dying wasp. As words
28:16
spread that he was in the
28:18
building, reporters quickly formed a scrum.
28:20
This was a particularly intense one.
28:23
Security guards formed a circle around
28:25
Hutch, while photographers and TV crews
28:27
jostled for pictures. When Hutch stopped,
28:30
he filmed the dozens of media
28:32
around him on his phone. As
28:34
he prepared to leave, one of
28:37
his teams said that if anyone
28:39
stepped inside the ring of yellow
28:41
jackets surrounding Hutch, he would, I
28:43
quote, do them. A colleague asked
28:46
Hutch if he would run for
28:48
election again. Hutch replied that he
28:50
would, before adding, I've been running
28:53
all my life." He broke into
28:55
a swift jog as he made
28:57
for the exit, with the press
29:00
pack alongside, gradually dropping off as
29:02
he reached the street. Hutch is
29:04
facing an investigation into alleged money
29:07
laundering in Spain, where he was
29:09
released from custody in October. If
29:11
Hutch had won a seat, the
29:13
international headlines would have been less
29:16
about continuity and more about chaos.
29:18
For now, the focus is on
29:20
coalition talks, rather than the presence
29:23
of a crime boss in Parliament.
29:25
But the fact that Hutch was
29:27
firmly in the running for political
29:30
office is being seen by many
29:32
in Ireland as a gauge of
29:34
anti-establishment feeling, a conspicuous counterpoint to
29:37
the country's electoral conservatism. Chris Page,
29:39
and that's all for today. We'll
29:41
be back again next Saturday morning.
29:43
Do join us. The wreath lectures
29:46
2024, hosted by me, Anita Arnand.
29:48
The series is about the complexity
29:50
of human violence. All violence is
29:53
not the and all
29:55
all perpetrators are
29:57
not the same. are
30:00
not the about violence,
30:02
explored by the
30:04
forensic psychiatrist, psychiatrist, Dr.
30:07
Gwen, By listening
30:09
to perpetrators, we
30:11
can learn more about the genesis
30:13
of violence of violence, and perhaps we might
30:15
be able to intervene able to reduce
30:18
the risk of violence happening in
30:20
the future. The Wreath
30:22
Lectures from BBC
30:24
Radio from BBC on BBC
30:26
BBC Sounds. If
30:30
you're hearing this, you're probably
30:32
already listening to BBC's BBC's -winning news
30:34
news But did you know you know
30:36
you can listen to them
30:39
without ads? without Get current affairs affairs
30:41
podcasts News, News, America's The Global Story,
30:43
plus other great BBC podcasts
30:45
from history, to comedy, to to
30:47
true crime, true all ad free. Simply
30:49
Simply subscribe to BBC podcast on
30:51
Apple podcasts or listen to Amazon
30:54
Music with a Prime with a prime
30:56
less time on ads time more
30:58
time with BBC podcasts.
Podchaser is the ultimate destination for podcast data, search, and discovery. Learn More