0:00

Diana Christine when was the last

0:02

time that you did something totally fearless

0:04

I do things all the time that

0:06

make me that like I'm scared about

0:08

but I do them anyway yeah to

0:10

some degree public speaking you know I

0:12

kind of don't like it yeah and

0:14

but I feel like it's good for

0:16

me it's good to stretch yeah also

0:18

teaching this class that I've been teaching

0:20

for four years yeah it's just class

0:22

at NYU so freaks me out every

0:24

time doing something you're not familiar

0:27

with that you you know you haven't

0:29

mastered yet and that you know gives

0:31

me some sort of I guess anxiety

0:33

about it but right yeah but like

0:36

I feel like that act of being

0:38

uncomfortable and like making yourself uncomfortable is

0:40

how you grow right totally yeah and

0:43

I see that too it's like I'm

0:45

stretching I'm learning like the whole teaching

0:47

the class you know I've never learned

0:50

so much about the craft of journalism.

0:52

It's great. And I definitely don't regret

0:54

it, but it's definitely fear-inducing. Sure, sure,

0:57

sure. After like more than a decade

0:59

of having, of going on stage and

1:01

interviewing people on stage and giving

1:03

talks and teaching your class, like,

1:05

is it easier? No. This is from the

1:07

ground up. I'm ink executive

1:10

editor Diana Ransom, and I'm

1:12

editor at large Christine Laguario

1:15

Chafkin. Today's episode. being fearless.

1:17

So Christine for today's

1:19

episode I spoke with

1:22

Ari and Samum. How much

1:24

do you know about Ariansma? I

1:26

know that she was on the

1:28

cover of our female founders issue

1:30

for Inc. magazine. Awesome. And it

1:32

looks great. She's stunning and the

1:34

whole assemblage is great. We have

1:36

four covers this issue so super

1:38

thrilled about that. So she is

1:40

the founder of the Fearless Fund,

1:42

founder of the Fearless Foundation. You're

1:44

noting the trend here. She also

1:46

created the Fearless Magazine. So she's

1:48

just... kind of embody this like

1:50

fearlessness throughout our whole career. It's

1:52

interesting because so fearless fund is a

1:55

venture capital firm that focuses on people

1:57

from diverse backgrounds typically female. founded businesses,

1:59

which kind of is a nice symbiosis

2:01

with our female founders package. The Fearless

2:04

Foundation, however, was the subject of a

2:06

really significant lawsuit about 13 months ago,

2:08

and it has just been one big

2:10

dramatic story after another. A lot of

2:13

back and forth, the lawsuit was... theoretically

2:15

going to go all the way to

2:17

the Supreme Court at some point. So

2:19

it's a lot of drama. So she

2:22

literally had to be fearless to get

2:24

through this. It's not just branding. Absolutely.

2:26

Absolutely. So I was really looking forward

2:29

to speaking with her. She's had a

2:31

hell of a year. But it was

2:33

interesting how kind of like We got

2:35

back to sort of the roots of

2:38

where the idea came from. She had

2:40

started a fashion boutique in Tallahassee, where

2:42

my grandma lived, when I was a

2:44

kid. So she experienced at that point

2:47

just kind of like a lack of

2:49

capital access and realized from that moment

2:51

that she wanted to be a part

2:53

of, you know, providing access to people.

2:56

And so that kind of like set

2:58

the wheels in motion for the Fearless

3:00

Fund. So I asked her about this

3:02

and plenty more. I started the conversation

3:05

by talking to her about why she

3:07

even chose venture cap. as the tool

3:09

for her work. Great, I can't wait

3:11

to hear it. I don't know if

3:14

I selected venture capital or venture capital

3:16

selected me. So one day I was

3:18

in New York City with two of

3:20

my friends and we were pitching to

3:23

Gary Vainerchak. The, I guess we'd say,

3:25

yes, Gary V. The social media, personality,

3:27

businessman, extraordinary. And we weren't aware that

3:30

we were pitching to him and he

3:32

only had a $25 million fund if

3:34

we had a $10 million dollar pitch.

3:36

And he was like, well, this can't.

3:39

happened also because the fund is deployed

3:41

but it was very much one of

3:43

those like aha moments because I went

3:45

out on the streets of New York

3:48

right after and I just watched the

3:50

cars go by and I was just

3:52

standing there and my friend who said

3:54

I know what you're thinking. He said

3:57

you want to be on the other

3:59

side of that table? And I'm thinking

4:01

my head of course. I want to

4:03

be the one that's empowered to deploy

4:06

the capital. And that's when I knew

4:08

that venture capital could be a way

4:10

for me to honor what I said

4:12

to myself in college. I had no

4:15

clue what the promise would look like

4:17

later on. I had no clue that

4:19

it would even revisit me in my

4:21

thoughts. But I knew in that moment

4:24

that... it was then possible. So it

4:26

stuck with you? Yeah, and it's a

4:28

providential, because that's the same amount that

4:31

we pitched him for that day as

4:33

the same amount we closed on. So

4:35

how much time between when you had

4:37

that aha moment to actually being able

4:40

to close on fearless fun one? So

4:42

around 2017, I started doing a lot

4:44

of the groundwork. Got it. As far

4:46

as meeting people. Once you put something

4:49

out there in the atmosphere, what you're

4:51

seeking is seeking you. So people just

4:53

started saying, oh, I work in venture

4:55

capital, now paying attention. Now I work

4:58

in venture capital, I'm now paying attention,

5:00

got work in venture capital, I'm now

5:02

paying attention, got our advisors on board,

5:04

had all the paperwork ready from securities

5:07

attorneys 2018. So that was more so

5:09

the route in which things got moving,

5:11

started raising capital, and it took three

5:13

years to close fun one. What is

5:16

your ethos in terms of investing? So

5:18

high level, the things that we look

5:20

for are a good brand story. How

5:23

good is the product? What kind of

5:25

traction do you have? And how strong

5:27

is your team? That's something that just

5:29

has to pass the smell test. But

5:32

there is a level of the intangible.

5:34

There is something you're going to feel

5:36

in your gut that tells you this

5:38

is a person worth betting on. That's

5:41

something you feel in your gut. you

5:43

know that these are people worth betting

5:45

on and it's not that I can

5:47

put it into words, it's just all

5:50

intuitive. So those are the high level

5:52

things, then they go through a process

5:54

of diligence, then they go through a

5:56

series of meetings with our company and

5:59

our team, but there's something that you

6:01

just know. And then you're like, no,

6:03

they have something special and whatever. that

6:05

special thing is is something that's irreplaceable.

6:08

Right, this intangible. I feel like that

6:10

way to some degree with journalism and

6:12

what we do and the types of

6:14

companies that we pick to write about.

6:17

You want to like what you're doing

6:19

at the end of the day and

6:21

so you want to like who you're

6:24

writing about potentially? When you can pick?

6:26

It's nice to be able to pick.

6:28

So curious about your family too, we

6:30

didn't really get into too much of

6:33

your backstory, but you grew up in

6:35

Detroit, your father was an attorney from

6:37

what I understand, and one of his

6:39

clients was Rosa Parks. That is true.

6:42

And you were tasked with helping her

6:44

out. after school. Is that right? Not

6:46

that I was tasked. I think that

6:48

was just the nature of our relationship

6:51

at that point. I don't think anybody

6:53

even asked me. My high school was

6:55

actually down the street from where she

6:57

was staying in her condo. So I

7:00

would just go check on her after

7:02

school. It was the nature of our

7:04

relationship. My father the other day was

7:06

telling a story about when she was

7:09

in the house one time and my

7:11

sister was over. I wasn't even in

7:13

the house to stay and her friends

7:15

were like, oh, Ashley's grandmother. She was

7:18

a grandmother figure. You take care of

7:20

your grandmother. I would go pick her

7:22

up something from the grocery store. But

7:25

after traveling with her for so many

7:27

years back to back, that was just

7:29

the nature of our relationship. What do

7:31

you mean by traveling with her? She

7:34

had programs in the summer that would

7:36

go around the underground railroad and even

7:38

outside of the programs that she was

7:40

running through her foundation. I would travel

7:43

with her speaking engagements or places like

7:45

that in general. You just go to

7:47

support her or you would actually help

7:49

out? Oh gosh, probably a little bit

7:52

of everything at that time as a

7:54

child. As a child a little bit

7:56

of everything. That's amazing. Any thing she

7:58

taught you? Oh my gosh, you want

8:01

the list? Oh, that you may have

8:03

to wait for some of my writings.

8:05

Of course we always love her fearless

8:07

quote, but I will say this. She

8:10

talked to me about giving and receiving

8:12

and that basically you... who always receive

8:14

more from what you gave. And that's

8:16

just a universal way that the whole

8:19

world works. She was like, if you

8:21

continue to give, you're going to get

8:23

more on the back hand. She said,

8:26

everything I've ever given? She said, I've

8:28

always received more. So she was always

8:30

received more. So she was always big

8:32

on that. She practiced yoga. Oh, no

8:35

way. Oh, yes. It was a practice

8:37

of hers. She was big on calming

8:39

her mind. She also suffered considerably after

8:41

this, like she became a target. She

8:44

was robbed, she was targeted in other

8:46

ways, potentially. Oh yeah, but we took

8:48

very good care of her, and that

8:50

was my father's prayer. He did teach

8:53

me that. He said, you need to

8:55

take care of your leaders. How much

8:57

does your parents influence your life choices

8:59

versus what they instructed me to do?

9:02

They did most so give me the

9:04

freedom like I said to just be

9:06

me My father always says why I

9:08

never gave her instructions Mm-hmm, which is

9:11

true. I was a very much a

9:13

self-motivated child I would do my homework

9:15

weeks in advance I would get good

9:17

grades straight A's for the most part

9:20

and I remember graduating middle school valedictorian

9:22

with all three's in citizenship That's not

9:24

good Oh, why? Why is that? That

9:27

means bad behavior. Oh. That means I'm

9:29

talking a lot through class. I remember

9:31

even one of the teachers trying to

9:33

explain to my mother, like, well, we

9:36

need to do something about this. She

9:38

has all three's and straight A's, and

9:40

she's our valetorian. And my mother said,

9:42

we need to do nothing. So that's

9:45

why I said they gave me the

9:47

freedom to just be me. Your parents

9:49

let you live your life, but then

9:51

of course some decisions are forced upon

9:54

us, right? Some choices are not in

9:56

our hands. I'm speaking in particular about

9:58

August 2nd, 2023. You've learned about the

10:00

case from American Alliance for Equal Rights

10:03

from media calling. Yes, the staff, yes.

10:05

I was calm at first because

10:07

I didn't believe it was ours.

10:09

Yeah. Staff was calling and saying,

10:11

oh, the media's reaching out because

10:13

of this court case and I

10:16

was like, we don't have a

10:18

court case. Yeah, you're like, what

10:20

court case? Exactly. And I even

10:22

told them it was ChatGPT. I

10:24

said, this is sorted self out.

10:26

Because I'm thinking like it can't be

10:28

us. I know nothing about a court

10:30

case. So I was like, oh, don't

10:32

worry about it. I was going to

10:34

sort itself out. They call back again.

10:36

They're sitting there calling staff members and

10:38

they need them to report on it.

10:40

I said, well, you tell them don't

10:42

say anything. I said, we don't have

10:44

a court case. And next year, it's

10:46

plastered all over the media. And I

10:48

tell the staff, hey, if it's a

10:50

court case, what I do know about

10:53

the law and filing suits, And that's

10:55

the moment I knew it was real. And

10:57

what did that set off for you? You

10:59

went down the rabbit hole. Oh, the top

11:01

of it said the United States District. So

11:03

I said, oh my gosh, we have a

11:06

federal court case. This is the problem. This

11:08

is problematic now. And yeah, I texted Ben

11:10

Crump emergency in all capital letters and I

11:12

started alerting people from the head of the

11:15

NWACP on down like, hey, there's situation going

11:17

on out here. And it ended up being

11:19

one of the most, if not the most

11:21

prominent DEA backlash, DEA backlash, DEA backlash,

11:23

DEA backlash, Oh, because we were

11:25

the inaugural defendants of the

11:28

anti-de-e-i war. So post-ed blooms,

11:30

victory with his scoldest ruling

11:32

of June of 2023, striking

11:34

affirmative action down for higher

11:37

education down at the Supreme

11:39

Court, people were waiting. I

11:41

mean, he probably pursued that for

11:43

years, and then had a victory.

11:45

So the moment he filed,

11:47

it became national news. Right,

11:49

right. Why do you think

11:52

he targeted your organization? We

11:54

still don't know to this

11:56

day. Honestly, we do not

11:58

know. I can't. say I

12:00

think he may need to answer why

12:02

he did. But I do know that

12:05

there is just this spirit of fear

12:07

that is just taking place that needs

12:09

to stop. We're not doing anything wrong

12:12

and this is a trillion dollar disparity.

12:14

Who's concerned about this amount of money?

12:16

Well, the grant program, you're talking about

12:19

the Strivers grant program, it was between

12:21

20 and 10,000 dollar grants. Even the

12:23

millions we've raised. It's a trillion dollar

12:25

problem. The fact that there's even a

12:28

concern about whether it's 50 million or

12:30

200 million or 300 million, it's just

12:32

like, are you serious? Why are they

12:35

wasting their time or an energy? And

12:37

you're correct. The preliminary injunction, and that's

12:39

one thing that people, I would say,

12:42

get mixed up, and thank you for

12:44

spelling it all out. On that day,

12:46

the plaintiffs filed three motions against us.

12:49

A temporary restraining order. I thought those

12:51

were for stalkers. Like somebody who you

12:53

don't want to come near you, not

12:56

that you put a TRO on somebody's

12:58

business, so a temporary restraining order, a

13:00

preliminary injunction on the grant program, and

13:02

then the court case itself. We went

13:05

to court on the preliminary injunction. The

13:07

court case itself got dismissed. which is

13:09

why we have victory in this space.

13:12

So the preliminary injunction was for a

13:14

grant program that actually was at its

13:16

conclusion. Really had one grant left for

13:19

$20,000. We went to court of course

13:21

because I was just not about to

13:23

back down because there's nothing wrong with

13:26

this. But what were the implications if

13:28

you lost? Bad case law. So the

13:30

implications had we lost. If this case

13:32

got to the Supreme Court, which we've

13:35

seen the plaintiff strategy for that before?

13:37

There would have been constitutional law flipped

13:39

on its head that would have basically

13:42

said nobody can have marginalized funding. Nobody

13:44

can have funding for women. nobody can

13:46

have funding for people of color nobody

13:49

can do this period right so so

13:51

in fact the settlement ended up being

13:53

a win oh completely because it would

13:56

have been the same effect that took

13:58

place for the colleges where it's now

14:00

mm-hmm as we see a federal situation

14:03

and not even I would say bigger

14:05

than a situation we see the repercussions

14:07

of what's taking place today in diversity

14:09

equity and inclusion it has run rampant

14:12

And what are your feelings about what's

14:14

happening these days? We tried to warn

14:16

everybody. That's my feelings. We tried to

14:19

warn everybody. I feel like when affirmative

14:21

action got struck under the colleges, everybody

14:23

looked up and said, we don't believe

14:26

it happened. So I said, we don't

14:28

need to look up again and say

14:30

we don't believe this happened and that's

14:33

where we're at. We're looking up and

14:35

people are like, oh my gosh, I

14:37

can't believe this is happening. Like no,

14:39

we tried to warn everybody to the

14:42

best of our abilities and our resources

14:44

to let you know if we don't

14:46

get control of this, this is what's

14:49

coming down the pipeline. And then the

14:51

risk is what? So many people are

14:53

losing funding. We see it now where

14:56

agencies and programs are being dismantled. The

14:58

list goes on and on and mind

15:00

you we've seen that in just a

15:03

very short duration. Yeah. So I have

15:05

no clue where it fully nets out

15:07

to. So it's very concerning. Does anything

15:09

in particular give you optimism right now?

15:12

Yes, I do believe that adversity always

15:14

brings about opportunity. People are going to

15:16

have to figure it out because they

15:19

have to. Right. There was a moment

15:21

where we could have made the choice.

15:23

But I still am hopeful for... the

15:26

improvement in the economic justice that needs

15:28

to be served in this country and

15:30

globally. Speaking of optimism, Fearless Fund had

15:33

a recent investment in a company called

15:35

Zimi. It's an e-commerce platform. It's significant,

15:37

right? The platform itself seems to focus

15:40

on the emerging markets. Yeah, it's like

15:42

the Amazon of Africa. I've had this

15:44

experience myself. of even just being in

15:46

Africa, trying to get luggage or goods

15:49

or things back to the United States.

15:51

And it's like this six-week process and

15:53

it's very expensive, so it's costly and

15:56

time-consuming. Yes, so when they pitched it,

15:58

I was like, I know this problem

16:00

and I know it well. And when

16:03

you come out of any of the

16:05

incubators, like the Y-comenators or the tech

16:07

stars and their products of those, and

16:10

I said... These are where the unicorns

16:12

are made. In Africa or at the

16:14

Tech incubators? Yes. I was like, okay,

16:16

we've got something good here going on.

16:19

So what do you mean by that?

16:21

Are you going to start trying to

16:23

incubate companies? Oh no, we use that

16:26

for deal flow. So we partner with

16:28

an incubator or accelerator all the time

16:30

just to see what deal flow they

16:33

have coming up the pipeline because we

16:35

know what we've seen the rock stars

16:37

come from. And not that rock stars

16:40

cannot come from there, but we do

16:42

know that those people have definitely been

16:44

equipped and they've been given resources and

16:46

exposure in the industry. Okay. Yeah, like

16:49

for instance, partake foods was incubated out

16:51

of the Chabani food. Incubator, which I

16:53

don't know the actual name of it.

16:56

Yeah, no, she's terrific. So the thing

16:58

that I wanted to mention about, Simi

17:00

though, is obviously you mentioned Africa and

17:03

I'd love to have you talk about

17:05

your own experience on the continent and

17:07

the Ivory Coast. You are a queen,

17:10

a winter stand? Just we let in

17:12

the Dawa, a cultivore. I'm the Queen

17:14

of Dawa in cultivore. That's amazing. How

17:17

did this happen? That might be a

17:19

whole of the podcast. But just literally,

17:21

it takes you so long to get

17:23

through the story, but very high level,

17:26

I was not aware. And I've always

17:28

done a lot of work on the

17:30

continent and headed to the Ivory Coast

17:33

to go cut a ribbon on a

17:35

school I built. That's what I was

17:37

thinking I'm going for. Someone on our

17:40

team says, Erin, when you get there,

17:42

a stylus is going to meet you.

17:44

And I was just like a stylus.

17:47

I was like, I'm going with my

17:49

naturally curly hair, leave me alone. And

17:51

she was like, no, it's for wardrobe.

17:53

And I'm like, yeah, I'm wearing jeans

17:56

and a polo shirt with the school

17:58

logo on it. What do you mean?

18:00

And she was like, oh gosh, you

18:03

don't know. And I was like, don't

18:05

know what. She was like, Aryan, they're

18:07

crowning you queen. Oh my God. I

18:10

got off the phone. I did like

18:12

you. I laughed and got off the

18:14

phone. I didn't take it as seriously

18:17

as what was going on. I'm thinking

18:19

this is some type of award. Oh

18:21

no, I don't mean to diminish the...

18:24

No, no, no. It's the fact that

18:26

you didn't know it was happening. Yeah,

18:28

and I laughed too that day. Because

18:30

I was just like, oh, okay. And

18:33

it wasn't until this formal email comes

18:35

over talking about the queen is going

18:37

to address her people. This is the

18:40

order of ceremony. My God, no pressure.

18:42

And I was just like order her,

18:44

address her people. I was like, wait,

18:47

I said, wait, I'm the queen? What

18:49

is going on here? And the chief

18:51

city prayed to God and said it

18:54

was me. And I do have Ivorian

18:56

blood. Okay. So it's almost somewhat kind

18:58

of scary. Yeah. He definitely worked. Hold

19:00

on, hold on. Rosa Parks did yoga?

19:03

Yes, according to Aryan, yes. Good for

19:05

her, you know, you have to stay

19:07

flexible as you age. Absolutely. It can

19:10

be helpful. But I love the actual

19:12

advice that she had given to Arian

19:14

over the years, just this idea of

19:17

giving, you know, even if you're not

19:19

like sort of necessarily expecting something in

19:21

return, but just the idea of being

19:24

open to things and, you know, the

19:26

world is mysterious and theoretically you could

19:28

actually receive potentially more than you give.

19:30

And I think that idea of like

19:33

just being willing to give. and to

19:35

see where that takes you. Obviously it's

19:37

karma, but it seems to have worked

19:40

for Aryan, you know. Her fund has

19:42

backed something like, I think she said,

19:44

48 companies now. So there's slutty vegan,

19:47

the lip bar, partake foods. The list

19:49

goes on. It's pretty incredible. And lots

19:51

of these companies are basically rocket ships

19:54

right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved,

19:56

I loved her talking about her family's

19:58

connection to Rosa Parks, and I also

20:01

really like. that she mentioned that there's

20:03

something, sometimes there's something intangible. Like I

20:05

feel like, you know, Silicon Valley is

20:07

so into trying to quantify everything. And

20:10

that's just not how I feel the

20:12

world works always, right? Like... Right, yeah,

20:14

sort of different ways to measure success.

20:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely or not even

20:19

measure success just to know like the

20:21

intangible factors in how someone or something

20:24

or an idea kind of exists and

20:26

can benefit the world No, absolutely. There's

20:28

two large degree, you know, as she

20:31

was saying you have to kind of

20:33

go with your gut your gut instinct,

20:35

you know, she meets with these people

20:37

and she really kind of can tell

20:40

that they're the right person to be

20:42

backing. We'll get into more of that,

20:44

of course, but Arion will also share

20:47

her experience with the federal case against

20:49

the Fearless Foundation, which she views is

20:51

actually a success. More on that when

20:54

we come back from our break. So

21:08

do you have any sense for

21:10

whether the fearless fund is going

21:12

to invest in emerging markets going

21:14

forward? Oh, of course. So right

21:16

now on our fund too, we

21:18

have 20% allocations to international. It's

21:20

in our document. Wait, have you

21:22

closed on fund too? Not yet.

21:24

I already know everybody has asked.

21:26

Breaking news. Not yet, but yes,

21:28

20% does go to international. 80%

21:30

does go to domestic. And that

21:32

was something that was drawn up,

21:34

actually. Oh gosh, 2022. Yeah, we

21:37

were going to do international investments.

21:39

Great, so this is obviously part

21:41

of that. Oh yes, one of

21:43

them. On the same day where

21:45

you announced the settlement with the

21:47

American Alliance for Equal Rights, your

21:49

fund also announced that you were

21:51

launching a debt fund. That is

21:53

correct. It's a $200 million debt

21:55

fund. What is the point of

21:57

this? Is it the idea? of

21:59

being able to extend the runway

22:01

for traditional venture travel? It's not

22:03

about extending the runway. We always

22:05

wanted to deploy grants because we

22:08

knew this is okay, smaller amounts,

22:10

free money. We always wanted to

22:12

have debt. And then we always

22:14

wanted to have venture. It's just this

22:16

is the order in which things

22:18

took place. With the loans, though,

22:21

this can service not just our

22:23

existing portfolio companies, but also a

22:25

different entrepreneur. Venture dollars are not

22:28

for everybody. And it's very, very

22:30

aggressive. So with venture dollars, we're

22:32

looking for companies who scale and

22:35

grow at a very rapid rate

22:37

because we need them to exit

22:39

in five to seven years after

22:42

investment. Got it. When you receive

22:44

a loan, you can be the $15

22:46

million. and annual reoccurring revenue

22:48

company, meaning every year

22:51

you're making $15 million, and you

22:53

fit this. You could be the

22:55

company that makes $500,000 a year,

22:57

and you fit this. You can

22:59

be the company who makes $50,000,

23:01

and you actually fit this, too.

23:03

But those are not necessarily the

23:05

ingredients we're looking for in venture.

23:07

We're looking for high-growth, scalable companies

23:09

that are growing at a very

23:11

rapid rate. And what debt allows

23:13

you to do is grow at

23:15

your own pace. And are you looking

23:17

for similar qualities in the people you

23:19

extend? Of course, you want the... Yes,

23:22

you definitely want the strength of the

23:24

company and the business, but as far

23:26

as their ability to scale and grow

23:28

at a rapid rate, that's not a

23:30

requirement for that. It's just more so

23:33

your ability to repay it back. Can

23:35

you talk about the timing of the

23:37

announcement, knowing that you were revealing this

23:39

bombshell of information to the public about

23:41

having settled the case? Did you mean for

23:44

the timing to be perfectly like, did you

23:46

want good news? Good news, good news, bad

23:48

news, potentially, I don't know. Yes, prior to

23:50

being a venture capitalist, I ran a PR

23:53

and marketing firm, so I know a little

23:55

thing or two. So yes, that deal was

23:57

actually closed before that. Okay. So it was

23:59

well-time. We talked about what you're optimistic

24:01

about. We talked about what you're

24:03

concerned about. Can we talk about

24:05

your future? Where do you go

24:07

from here? You were speaking at

24:09

the NAACP convention last year and

24:11

you said a lot about economic

24:13

rights and the need for not

24:15

ignoring the fact that there's this

24:17

disparity. Do I sense a political

24:20

move in your future? Oh gosh.

24:22

I believe in advocacy. I believe

24:24

in policy change. I don't have

24:26

any desires. At this moment, I

24:28

don't. That's not necessarily in my

24:30

heart. What's in my heart is

24:32

to drive the impact and change

24:34

to make this world a better

24:36

place. I think that I'm able

24:38

to get more done being able

24:40

to work with both sides of

24:42

the aisle versus picking a side

24:44

of the aisle and having opposition.

24:46

So for me, as far as

24:48

what the future looks like, it

24:50

does look like doing more work

24:52

in the advocacy space, which was

24:54

actually my plan prior to getting

24:56

sued. It's so crazy. I had

24:58

told the staff, as soon as

25:00

we close fun too, you guys

25:02

said, I'm going to be doing

25:04

advocacy work because we need more

25:06

fearless funds. We don't need just

25:08

our fund. We need more fearless

25:10

funds. So yes, that is definitely

25:12

in the future. I believe that

25:14

more people should have the opportunity

25:16

to do what we do and

25:18

that what we do actually needs

25:20

to look a little bit. Stacey

25:22

Brown Philpott is launching a fund

25:24

that attempts to... Very familiar. She's

25:26

gearing it toward diverse. granted companies

25:28

too. Does hearing stories about these

25:30

quote-to-quote additional funds that are available

25:32

to founders of color? Does this

25:34

also offer a sense of optimism?

25:36

Oh, it always does. And it's

25:38

just needed work. But while it

25:40

does offer a sense of optimism

25:42

where my focus is on is

25:44

how do we just cure this

25:46

disparity? I don't want her to

25:48

have to do a fund. for

25:50

that reason. No different than at

25:52

this point. I'm like, I shouldn't

25:54

have to do a fun for

25:56

this. It's the disparity that shouldn't

25:58

exist in the first place. So

26:00

that's just more so where my

26:02

mind is at. But of course,

26:04

I'm sharing from her. She's a

26:06

fellow Detroiter. I remember meeting with

26:08

her about our fund way before

26:10

these announcements had. Do you have

26:12

any sense of what any of

26:14

this means for the state of

26:16

female founders today and the venture

26:18

capital climate? As far as our

26:20

current. Like is it going to

26:22

get better? Is it going to

26:24

stay bad? What do we need

26:26

to do to improve things? We

26:28

need to see it better. I

26:30

don't believe anything needing to stay

26:32

bad? Yeah. I don't know. If

26:34

it can get much worse, it's

26:36

not in a good place. You

26:38

know what I mean? So when

26:40

you hear the statistics about the...

26:43

0.35 percent. Exactly. If 20 percent

26:45

of the US population receiving that

26:47

amount of funding, they're very disturbing.

26:49

It's already at a fraction of

26:51

a percent. So I mean, how

26:53

do you really get worse? Yeah.

26:55

It's a fair point. But as

26:57

far as getting better, I think

26:59

the route of affecting policy change

27:01

and... doing other things to make

27:03

things better is more so where

27:05

my mind is at and where

27:07

I think the solution lies in

27:09

order to increase that. Because another

27:11

$50 million fund don't need it.

27:13

It's a trillion dollar issue. So

27:15

it's just like, okay, well, how

27:17

many are these going to happen

27:19

for us to really get rid

27:21

of this? So are you actually

27:23

saying that another fund isn't necessarily

27:25

what's going to... be helpful here?

27:27

No, I think they are helpful.

27:29

Yeah. Like I said, it's more

27:31

so, and I'm in the midst

27:33

of doing so much writing, it's

27:35

more so like treating the disease

27:37

versus curing it. It's like you're

27:39

going to the doctor, but you're

27:41

not getting healed. Right. Okay, so

27:43

this is going to be the

27:45

focus of your upcoming book? You

27:47

just mentioned doing all this writing.

27:49

Maybe. Well, you mentioned a bit

27:51

ago about basically not wanting to

27:53

pick sides. Correct. Correct. Do you

27:55

have any sense for how you're

27:57

doing that now? Yes, actually we're

27:59

having a think tank coming up

28:01

with people of all different backgrounds,

28:03

ideologies, political affiliations, because I want

28:05

to establish a solution that can

28:07

be that. for all. So when

28:09

the court case was over I

28:11

was like okay now you guys

28:13

it's time for us to quit

28:15

being on the defense we need

28:17

to get on the offense. And

28:19

what does solution really look like

28:21

in this space? And what does

28:23

resolve look like that everybody of

28:25

all backgrounds can actually come together

28:27

on and digest? And that's what

28:29

I mean by that as far

28:31

as what does fair funding look

28:33

like? that everybody can agree upon?

28:35

And let's just go from there.

28:37

I'm not trying to fight. Don't

28:39

desire to fight. I will if

28:41

I have to, as you have

28:43

seen. But I want to focus

28:45

my energy on coming up of

28:47

something that is equitable and equal

28:49

in the area of funding for

28:51

all people and society that everybody

28:53

can agree on. with ease. I

28:55

assume you would invite legislators and...

28:57

Oh, all types of people, yes.

28:59

Okay. Are you finding that people

29:01

are receptive to the idea? Do

29:04

you think people on both sides

29:06

of the aisle want to come

29:08

up with a solution? Yes. I

29:10

think that especially in America, capitalism

29:12

is viewed as good business. I

29:14

think you're right. So, yes. I

29:16

definitely think that it's going to

29:18

be well received. I don't want

29:20

to be caught up, oh, this

29:22

year. I don't want it to

29:24

be surrounded by semantics and it

29:26

may have to be a series

29:28

of them in order for us

29:30

to get to this place. We

29:32

may even have to showcase this

29:34

or video it, but it's more

29:36

so really coming together for a

29:38

collective resolve. And I love the

29:40

story that is in the book

29:42

and the movie Best of enemies.

29:44

A story about a civil rights

29:46

activist name and Atwater. And she

29:48

actually converted one of the Ku

29:50

Klux Klan members and he got

29:52

up and ripped up his membership

29:54

card and everything, but it started

29:56

off very rough. Yes. Oh my

29:58

gosh, they were in this meeting.

30:00

they called them shirets. And a

30:02

shiret was basically a way to

30:04

bring a solution to a problem,

30:06

but from a collective standpoint. So

30:08

you took people with polar opposite

30:10

views and figured out, okay, how

30:12

do we get them to come

30:14

together to agree on issues? And

30:16

they came together to agree, and

30:18

after that, they would travel with

30:20

their story. and they became so

30:22

close that she even read his

30:24

eulogy. That's amazing. So you want

30:26

to have that moment or affect

30:28

some people to some degree? Yes,

30:30

and not just that moment. I

30:32

would like to see that on

30:34

a more global scale. What does

30:36

the name Fearless Come From? Like

30:38

you've used it a lot, Fearless

30:40

Fund, Fearless Foundation, Fearless Magazine. I

30:42

guess I had come to some

30:44

point of this aha moment that

30:46

I just don't recall, but I

30:48

do remember I've always viewed it

30:50

as an ingredient to my success.

30:52

being fearless? Yes. I wondered if

30:54

it was a motivator for you,

30:56

because I've read studies that it

30:58

ends up affecting women of color

31:00

more than the rest of the

31:02

population, but this idea of imposter

31:04

syndrome. I'm not suggesting you have

31:06

this, but... I don't at all.

31:08

Lots of people have it. You've

31:10

never had it? You've never found

31:12

that way? No. No. And not

31:14

that I'm dismissing anybody's situation, and

31:16

not that I'm trying to belittle

31:18

about how anybody feels. I don't

31:20

lean into terms like that. If

31:22

I'm being very frank, and I'm

31:24

just going to say it the

31:27

way I would say it, I

31:29

feel like this is a term

31:31

that white men have come up

31:33

to to try to make somebody

31:35

feel like they didn't belong in

31:37

their space. So I just don't

31:39

adopt. Yeah, I don't I don't

31:41

know too many white men who

31:43

feel like they've ever had imposter

31:45

syndrome Yeah, I feel like it's

31:47

a term that was come up

31:49

with to try to make somebody

31:51

feel that they didn't belong I

31:53

don't so come to it. I

31:55

don't adopt it and no Where

31:57

do you think your fearlessness comes

31:59

from? I guess from many places

32:01

it comes from the city of

32:03

Detroit that I grew up in

32:05

It comes from so many things.

32:07

I've been around affirming environments pretty

32:09

much my entire life. And for

32:11

anybody who does have those feelings

32:13

or those in securities and concerns,

32:15

I would never ever try to

32:17

dismiss it. But I would want

32:19

them to know that they have

32:21

been given permission through birth to

32:23

just take up space. Well, it's

32:25

been a true pleasure to speak

32:27

with you today. Thank you so

32:29

much. I

32:33

believe her. I believe that she is

32:36

fearless. Well, okay, tell me this. So

32:38

I just heard a story from our

32:40

art director that when Aaron was in

32:42

the office, he heard a scream resound

32:45

through the halls of ink. Yes, she

32:47

did, she did scream. So I, for

32:49

whatever reason, I thought she knew she

32:51

was on the cover and she apparently

32:53

didn't. So when I was like, hey,

32:56

you know, you're on the cover, right?

32:58

She screamed. Oh. everybody in the office

33:00

heard. And she saw the cover? She,

33:02

yeah, I took her and show her

33:05

the cover and she was thrilled. It's

33:07

also great because like after such a

33:09

crappy year of being sued in a

33:11

federal court case, she is able to

33:13

stop and see herself on the cover

33:16

of a magazine. This has got to

33:18

be somewhat reassuring for her. Yeah, and

33:20

cathartic, right? Yeah. So like all this

33:22

effort is not for nothing. Absolutely, that's

33:25

great. So what about the future for

33:27

Arion? Well, she's staying optimistic. She's trying

33:29

to close her second fearless fund now.

33:31

And it's not going to lie. It's

33:33

not been easy, especially with this climate.

33:36

But she is trying to stay positive

33:38

and optimistic. And maybe that's the takeaway

33:40

from our entire conversation is for entrepreneurs

33:42

out there dealing with uncertainty or in

33:45

the face of adversity, frankly, right now,

33:47

is to sort of channel your inner

33:49

area in Simone and stay positive. Stay

33:51

fearless. Absolutely. That's

33:57

all for this episode of From the Ground Up. Be sure

33:59

to sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts,

34:01

Spotify, or or your podcast platform

34:03

of choice. Also, Also, if you'd

34:05

like this episode or have suggestions

34:07

of what topics you'd like

34:09

to hear about, about, leave us

34:12

a review on Apple Podcasts or

34:14

reach out to us on

34:16

all of of social channels. channels. From The

34:18

is produced by Blake Odom

34:20

and Avery Odom and Avery Miles with myself

34:22

with help from Sam Gabauer and

34:24

and Hawa Otori. Editing by Matt Toder, mix

34:26

and design by Nicholas Torres. Torres.

34:28

producer is Josh is Josh Thanks for

34:30

listening for we will see you

34:32

next week. see you next week.