0:00

So Diana, Kate.

0:03

Christine? Christine,

0:05

Diana. Kate, I had a Christine. Do

0:07

you remember the first time you stepped

0:09

out of your comfort zone? I have

0:11

two brothers, one on each side, right?

0:13

So I remember the first time I

0:15

came and crying and my dad said

0:17

what happened and I said I got

0:19

pushed down and we were playing stickball

0:21

and he said get your ass back

0:23

out there and show them who's tough.

0:25

And that was a big moment for

0:28

me that I still remember, whatever I

0:30

am, almost 50, how many years later

0:32

that I... I did. I walk back

0:34

out there and got back up

0:36

and said, I'm playing just as

0:38

hard as you and let's go.

0:40

And I think that is a

0:42

through line for my entire life.

0:45

This is From the Ground Up.

0:47

I'm Inc. Executive Editor

0:50

Diana Ransom. And I'm

0:52

Editor at Large Christine

0:54

Legorio Tafkin. Today's episode,

0:57

Creating Your Own Category.

1:01

Hey everyone, Christine, and I are back with

1:03

our special guest host, Kate Luzio, who's the CEO and

1:05

founder of Luminary. Hey guys! Hey Kate, good to see

1:07

you again! So Kate, I'm seeing you and your hair

1:09

looks fantastic. Thank you. Very dirty. Very dirty. It's very

1:11

dirty. Very dirty. Very dirty. Is that like the dry

1:14

shampoo? No, I can't use dry shampoo. It's dirty. Okay.

1:16

It is not good for my hair. But I have

1:18

found that my hair. But I have found that my

1:20

hair. But I have found that my hair is quite

1:22

long. My hair. But I have found that my hair

1:24

is quite long. My hair. But I have found that

1:26

my hair. My hair. It's very dirty. But I have.

1:29

It's very dirty. But I have. It's very, very, very,

1:31

very, very, very, very, very, kind of,

1:33

very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

1:35

very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

1:37

very, very, kind of, very, very, very,

1:40

very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

1:42

very, very, very, very, very, very, It's

1:44

sort of a new company and she's

1:47

mainly focused on hair care products that

1:49

cater to Hispanic or Latina population. And

1:51

it's kind of revolutionary in the sense

1:53

that there weren't really products for this

1:56

community before she got started. I mean,

1:58

they existed but they weren't. necessarily household

2:00

names. So I love Baba. We

2:02

had Baba speak at Luminary when

2:05

she was just launching ceremonial

2:07

and just seeing what she did

2:09

prior, right, running her own agency,

2:11

etc. to the saying, this is

2:13

a real problem given she didn't

2:15

see anything in the market for

2:17

her. And so I love what

2:19

she's built. And I think it's

2:21

not only a product for the

2:23

Latino Hispanic population, I think it

2:25

now... goes to all here. I mean, I

2:28

use it. What she is building and

2:30

continues to build. Plus, she's attracted a

2:32

great deal of funding in order to

2:34

build this, which I think is also

2:36

historic. Well, and she definitely talks about

2:38

that. She talks about how one of

2:40

the investors she ended up talking to

2:42

along the way, tried to give her

2:44

advice on how and when to raise

2:46

her family. Meanwhile, she's actually pregnant. Wow.

2:48

I mean, it was like a earth-shatteringering

2:52

moment. I can only imagine what it

2:54

must have like her. So, Baba and I

2:56

began by talking about her background and

2:58

where the seeds for ceremonial took root.

3:01

Ceremonia is a clean hair wellness

3:03

friend that is very proudly rooted

3:05

in my Latin heritage. Your background

3:07

is interesting. You're Chilean and you

3:09

also grew up in Sweden. Is

3:11

ceremonial sort of a product of

3:13

your own upbringing and heritage? Very

3:16

much so. I grew up in

3:18

a very Hispanic household, but in

3:20

Sweden, which I think culturally could

3:22

not be more different from Latin

3:24

culture. And my parents moved to

3:26

Sweden more so out of necessity

3:28

than anything else. I think sometimes...

3:30

people assume that, oh, like how

3:33

nice that they moved to Sweden

3:35

and they think they moved maybe

3:37

for jobs or something like that

3:39

and like it could not be

3:41

further from the truth. What was

3:43

happening? So there was the dictatorship

3:45

in Chile and that prompted the

3:47

move and my parents didn't pick

3:49

Sweden by any means like they

3:51

just ended up there. They were

3:53

accepting political refugees at the time

3:55

and Sweden was a pretty tough

3:57

landing I would say for my

3:59

parents. culturally, but what did they do

4:02

for work when they got there? So

4:04

my mom, none of my parents have

4:06

like a degree. So my dad had

4:08

a bunch of jobs. He was a

4:11

hairdresser back in Chile. So a little

4:13

bit of a full circle moment for

4:15

me to have a hair around now.

4:17

He also would do electrician work and

4:19

plumbing or whatever like he could do

4:22

to make ends meet. And my mom,

4:24

she had my brother really young, so

4:26

she was home. And then when they

4:28

moved to Sweden, my mom would do

4:30

some cleaning jobs here and there. But

4:33

even that was hard for her to

4:35

get because of the language barrier. And

4:37

then what was it like for you

4:39

growing up in Sweden? Did you feel

4:41

like any kind of tug and pull

4:44

in terms of your own heritage? Yeah,

4:46

I mean a lot. I think it

4:48

was interesting because on one hand at

4:50

home I had one set of values

4:52

and you know learned about how to

4:55

be as a human being and then

4:57

in school I was learning something different.

4:59

So and that's what I mean about

5:01

Swedish culture being so different from Chilean

5:03

culture Swedish culture is a little bit

5:06

more about the individual whereas Latin culture

5:08

is more about the collective and in

5:10

Sweden I was also in school celebrated

5:12

for being an independent thinker instead of

5:14

like questioning the norm and if you

5:17

question the teacher that that's a good

5:19

thing because it means you're an independent

5:21

thinker but in my household questioning adult

5:23

was considered rude. So it was just

5:25

like this very interesting like dynamic I

5:28

think as a child trying to figure

5:30

out what's right and wrong and like

5:32

how to operate in this world because

5:34

I was being fed very different messages.

5:36

Right. Well so flash forward I guess

5:39

when you got to the United States

5:41

the United States is also very independent

5:43

in terms of praising that. Did you

5:45

feel like there was culture shock here

5:47

for you at all? No actually I

5:50

came to New York, right, which is

5:52

maybe not. Not exactly America. New York

5:54

is a thing of its own, but

5:56

coming to New York was a homecoming

5:58

for me. I think it was the

6:01

first time that I actually really felt

6:03

like all of the different pieces that

6:05

make up me where celebrated and probably

6:07

stepped into my full self up and

6:09

arrived. here. Cool. And what made you

6:12

think Ceremonia was the right kind of

6:14

company to start? At the moment you

6:16

started it was like 2020, right? Yeah,

6:18

so I launched a 2020 I was

6:20

working on it for a little bit

6:23

over a year before. So there were

6:25

two driving forces. On one hand, it

6:27

was just a personal need. I spent

6:29

over a decade frantically damaging my hair,

6:31

which I think a lot of women

6:34

can relate to, but I grew up

6:36

in the era of like your hair

6:38

needing to be super straight, ideally not

6:40

black. So I bleached my hair, I

6:42

was straightening it on a daily basis,

6:45

and putting all these like really toxic

6:47

products that were promising me to tame

6:49

my hair and to make it shiny

6:51

and smooth. And the only thing that

6:53

happened was that these were all... bandage

6:56

solutions and over time my hair just

6:58

got so damaged freesier than ever and

7:00

I just started to hate it even

7:02

more. So I would basically wake up

7:04

an hour earlier every day. just to

7:07

style my hair. Just to do your

7:09

hair. That's wild. That's wild. Imagine what

7:11

you can do with all those hours.

7:13

You're just putting chemicals on it daily.

7:15

You're waking up one hour earlier to

7:18

just do something bad for yourself. Like

7:20

that's terrible, right? So I wanted to

7:22

break free from that vicious cycle. I

7:24

think as I was growing into my

7:26

adult self, I was just questioning that

7:29

behavior. And I had simultaneously done a

7:31

very interesting journey with my skin where...

7:33

I used to feel the need to

7:35

wear a lot of makeup and then

7:37

I had embarked on a clean skin

7:40

care regimen and actually used a lot

7:42

of the products from my fellow Latina

7:44

brand called Tata Harper and I was

7:46

really inspired by how I was able

7:49

to transform my skin when I eliminated

7:51

all of these toxic ingredients and I

7:53

basically unlocked real glow and when you

7:55

have real glow you don't want to

7:57

cover it up with makeup. So I

8:00

remember thinking to myself imagine if I

8:02

could do that same journey with my

8:04

hair? Like what if I would just

8:06

like unlock my best natural hair and

8:08

I would just like wash it and

8:11

let it air dry? What a concept!

8:13

I mean the other driving force here

8:15

truthfully was also just realizing what a

8:17

lack of representation the beauty industry has

8:19

and it was interesting because 2019 conversations

8:22

about diversity were definitely happening but for

8:24

some reason Latin representation was oftentimes overlooked

8:26

in those conversations. Which is wild in

8:28

the United States. Yeah, we account for

8:30

20% of the population. I also read

8:33

that we're expected to reach 30% by

8:35

2016. Wow. So like the future really

8:37

is Latin X. Like whether you want

8:39

to believe it or not, like those

8:41

are just the facts. And that was

8:44

the driving force for me in wanting

8:46

to create something that was rooted in

8:48

Latin culture because I realized that for

8:50

the longest time I had been neglectinglecting

8:52

my own relationship to my own heritage

8:55

and I wasn't carrying my... culture with

8:57

pride and I realized that that was

8:59

a result of just not having enough

9:01

representation in an aspirational way. The only

9:03

times I would see Hispanic representation was

9:06

in a quite a like dystopian way

9:08

like in Hollywood it equals being a

9:10

drug dealer or a maid or you

9:12

know so like that's not real representation.

9:14

So I wanted to create a brand

9:17

that really would put Latin culture on

9:19

the world map and that would sort

9:21

of like load latinidad with positive attributes.

9:23

And I'm very inspired by French beauty.

9:25

They have really mastered to make French

9:28

culture feel aspirational. And I've been buying

9:30

French beauty my entire life and I'm

9:32

not French, right? And somehow that felt

9:34

like a luxury thing. I want to

9:36

create the same thing with Latin culture

9:39

where I want not only Latin people

9:41

but non-Latin people to start aspiring to

9:43

be part of this world. Do you

9:45

feel like you've already kind of transcended?

9:47

How much of your customer base ends

9:50

up being Latinx versus not? So that's

9:52

actually what's fascinating is that we're four

9:54

and a half years in and about

9:56

half of our customer demo identifies as

9:58

Latinx and the other half don'ts. And

10:01

the other half, like the power user

10:03

of Ceremonia who is not... Hispanic is

10:05

actually like a pretty traditional like white

10:07

woman who is just very conscious. It's

10:09

almost like the goop customer, you know,

10:12

like someone who's just like extremely conscious

10:14

and we do really well at this

10:16

French retailer called Oh My Cream. They

10:18

have a super high bar for what

10:20

they consider to be clean and we

10:23

learn that our customer is extremely savvy

10:25

and they read ingredients and they are

10:27

very... conscious consumers, they want to use

10:29

sustainable things, they want to use things

10:31

that are safe for them. So I

10:34

would say that that's like really like

10:36

the core of our business is the

10:38

level of clean that we offer and

10:40

the wellness approach to hair. And then

10:42

because of our Latin heritage in the

10:45

brand, we also very naturally appeal to

10:47

the Latin demographic as well. Right. But

10:49

you're also using raw materials that are

10:51

more akin to like Latin heritage or

10:53

Hispanic heritage, right? Yeah, so our key

10:56

ingredients are, most of them are derived

10:58

from Latin America, so guava is a

11:00

big ingredient for us. I notice you

11:02

have a guava candle too, right? Yeah,

11:04

I mean we're... obsessed with all things

11:07

quite. And so is our customer. Our

11:09

guava collection has like a more tropical

11:11

scent too. And one of the most

11:13

common questions I get is like, will

11:15

you please make a guava fragrance? And

11:18

so there is something I think about

11:20

just like this transportive element of using

11:22

very tropical ingredients that really have the

11:24

power to transport you mentally. Yeah. That's

11:26

fascinating. Back to your background a little

11:29

bit for a second here. You started

11:31

your career at Uber, right? Yes. So

11:33

you're working at Uber in Stockholm and

11:35

then you ended up as the director

11:37

of marketing at Away in New York

11:40

City and then you also started up

11:42

your own marketing agency called By Baba.

11:44

This is all before you launched ceremonious.

11:46

Yes, you have like an incredible resume

11:48

even before you launched a company. How

11:51

was that helpful? How was having all

11:53

these other varied experiences helpful for when

11:55

you wanted to? start ceremony. I deem

11:57

them very very helpful. I am very

11:59

glad that was not my first endeavor

12:02

because there is just something about learning

12:04

how to work like my husband I

12:06

talk about this a lot to learn

12:08

how to work is a skill and

12:10

I'm so happy I had you know

12:13

my quote-unquote dog years in my 20s

12:15

of just working around the clock and

12:17

what I did not have any experience

12:19

I put in in hours. Yeah, gosh,

12:21

Uber, sweatshop. I mean, I worked very

12:24

hard at Uber, but I wouldn't change

12:26

it for anything in the world. I

12:28

loved my experience at Uber. I'm grateful

12:30

for it. It felt like getting paid.

12:33

to do a business school, basically. Awesome.

12:35

Yeah, it was a really cool experience.

12:37

Did I have work-life balance? No. But

12:39

did I need that in my early

12:41

20s? No, like I was hungry to

12:44

learn. I just wanted to do. I

12:46

wanted to grow. So that experience was

12:48

super valuable. And I think that experience

12:50

was super valuable. And I think the

12:52

experience that I don't have, right, is

12:55

beauty. But I think that also has

12:57

been my advantage. is that I've had

12:59

a fresh perspective to it. I'm not

13:01

married to old ways of doing things.

13:03

I'm really looking to innovate because I'm

13:06

not confined by the way it should

13:08

be. So how did you gain that

13:10

knowledge though? I mean obviously you have

13:12

perspective and you're coming into it as

13:14

an outsider, but like did you hire

13:17

people who knew something about the beauty

13:19

industry? Yeah, I think obviously you can

13:21

always hire for the things that you

13:23

don't know, but I think that as

13:25

a founder you have to understand, like,

13:28

I think, the core of your business

13:30

at the end of the day. So

13:32

I'm super close to product. We are

13:34

a product business and I think it

13:36

would be crazy if I didn't understand,

13:39

like, the fundamentals of. you know, the

13:41

creation of our product, that that's the

13:43

DNA. I do some angel investing too,

13:45

and whenever I see a tech company

13:47

that is founded by people who don't

13:50

understand the tech, then that's a red

13:52

flag because you can't outsource the core

13:54

of the business. So for me, it

13:56

was a lot about truly just like

13:58

self-taught, like studying it on my own.

14:01

while also doing knowledge exchanges. So I

14:03

actually in the early days, I had

14:05

this other founder who he kept reaching

14:07

out to my agency because he didn't

14:09

know much about branding and marketing and

14:12

he really needed help there, but he

14:14

couldn't really afford my agency services. And

14:16

as I started to think about building

14:18

a beauty brand, I was like, I

14:20

have an idea for you. How about

14:23

we do these like exchange where I

14:25

help you with all things marketing and

14:27

brand and you help me with all

14:29

things? Oh, this is brilliant. Yeah, like

14:31

chemical engineering. Yeah. So we literally had

14:34

like three hour lunches and he also

14:36

connected me to our first chemical engineer

14:38

and he explained like how you work

14:40

with labs and if you want to

14:42

do formulations in-house what you need to

14:45

think about it was just like so

14:47

eye-opening and I hope I helped him

14:49

equally much I think that's something that

14:51

I always recommend founders is that there

14:53

are people that are you know amazing

14:56

at what you're looking for and Don't

14:58

underestimate your own genius. Like you have

15:00

something that someone else needs and like,

15:02

you know, help each other. Yeah, and

15:04

super smart, especially when you're trying to

15:07

stay scrappy when you're starting. Like I

15:09

couldn't afford a consultant at the time,

15:11

you know, so it was like I

15:13

needed to just do it. You can't

15:15

hire, you know, try to try to

15:18

use your resources smartly. But you do,

15:20

you did manage to raise funding, right?

15:22

So ceremony has about 13 million in,

15:24

and 10 million. We actually raised a

15:26

million dollars pre-launch, which in today's day

15:29

and age is like... As a Latina

15:31

founder too, I mean that... Yeah, I

15:33

mean it's crazy when you add the

15:35

Latina founder element to it, it's just

15:37

very depressing. I think, I mean women,

15:40

I don't know. We don't need to

15:42

go there. Exactly, but just like it's

15:44

good for people to be aware, like

15:46

Latina women actually receive like the smallest

15:48

part of the pie when it comes

15:51

to funding. because it means that it's

15:53

not for lack of participation, it's just

15:55

for lack of opportunity. So. We raised

15:57

one million pre-launch, it was a pre-seat,

15:59

it was led by Soul Gal Ventures.

16:02

They have been with the company ever

16:04

since. They're super fans. Yeah, they're on

16:06

the board. It's just been amazing working

16:08

with women and they know what it

16:10

takes to be an early stage business

16:13

because they have seen that movie many

16:15

times. They invest early stage, they invest

16:17

in diverse founders. Honestly, I was just

16:19

lucky that I met them at the

16:21

time. I don't know. I mean, you

16:24

have a lot of operational experience. You

16:26

know, that must have helped you. Yeah,

16:28

actually, I got an introduction to them

16:30

from one of my early clients at

16:32

Baba. I actually know that. I think

16:35

about it. So yeah, one of my

16:37

first clients when I was running my

16:39

brand marketing agency was a day, the

16:41

athleisure brand. Oh, right. Yeah. So Nina,

16:43

the founder there, she works a lot

16:46

with the Sogel team. And then when

16:48

I told her I was starting ceremony,

16:50

she's like, can I please introduce you

16:52

to Sogel? This will be right up

16:54

their alley. And I was like, oh,

16:57

yeah. Sounds great. And then... subsequently raised

16:59

another 10 million? Yeah, so we did

17:01

a 10 million series A and yeah

17:03

and that's been our journey. But while

17:06

you were doing this, while you're having

17:08

these meetings with venture capitalists, you were

17:10

also pregnant. Yes, I mean I've been

17:12

pregnant basically for four years. Yeah. I

17:14

have not been in your shoes necessarily,

17:17

but I do have children who are

17:19

like 17, 18 months apart, so I

17:21

do remember what it's like to not

17:23

have any gap, have any break, so

17:25

I mean I can't imagine doing it

17:28

in your scale. So you have four

17:30

children, but at this point you're raising

17:32

money, you have to have a conversation

17:34

with them about like, hey guess what,

17:36

I'm pregnant, did you have that conversation

17:39

and what was that like? Yeah, I

17:41

would say that it was so hard

17:43

with my first pregnancy because I think

17:45

also I was just myself navigating a

17:47

lot of fears. I didn't know what

17:50

motherhood was going to mean to me

17:52

and all I was fed was basically

17:54

that motherhood equaled like not being able

17:56

to be a business professional. it was

17:58

sort of like this very binary yeah

18:01

yeah yeah you have to stop yeah

18:03

your career exactly to halt everything and

18:05

all my Swedish friends they go on

18:07

one year maternity right so like that

18:09

was also an expectation and then the

18:12

other extreme was you know American hustle

18:14

culture where you don't get any time

18:16

off and you just like shovel your

18:18

kid out to like daycare when they're

18:20

six weeks old and I mean one

18:23

thing actually that I realized recently is

18:25

that you're not even allowed to adopt

18:27

the dog until they're eight weeks old

18:29

because they need to be with their

18:31

mom but in America you can send

18:34

your six-week-old baby to daycare just to

18:36

put in perspective but anyways I was

18:38

fed this very binary you know experiences

18:40

so I didn't know what to expect

18:42

and I was super nervous and I

18:45

remember calling up every single investor to

18:47

tell them that in my mind bad

18:49

news that I was pregnant. Oh no.

18:51

And which is so sad, like it's

18:53

the most amazing news, right? Yeah, yeah.

18:56

But who actually really... flip the script

18:58

for me was anew at female founders

19:00

fund. A new dugel. Yes. So I

19:02

remember I texted her I was like

19:04

anew I have to talk to you

19:07

like do you have a few minutes

19:09

and she's like yeah of course. She's

19:11

like are you dying? Yeah exactly. Because

19:13

she had just invested and then she's

19:15

like hi what's up and I was

19:18

like okay so I want to tell

19:20

you that you know I'm expecting. She's

19:22

like oh my god. So exciting, congrats,

19:24

wow, what do you do? And I

19:26

was like, oh, da da. And she's

19:29

like, OK, cool. So what did you

19:31

want to talk about? Moving right along,

19:33

yeah. And I was like, no, that

19:35

was the thing. She's like, fava. She's

19:37

like, have you seen our portfolio? Yeah,

19:40

they're all moms. Well, female founders ones,

19:42

okay, obviously. Yeah, but I understood that

19:44

they were female founders, but I don't

19:46

think I've like fully connected that these

19:48

were women who also had personal lives.

19:51

Right, right. Yeah. So she really flipped

19:53

the script for me, and then I

19:55

was definitely much more unapologetic about it

19:57

the second time around, and I mean,

19:59

now I have four kids. it. And

20:02

I think I had to dismount a

20:04

lot of limiting beliefs for myself before

20:06

getting it to that point. But I

20:08

realize that the reality, though, too, is

20:10

that as a founder, especially an early

20:13

stage founder, and a venture-backed business, there

20:15

is no such thing as taking a

20:17

year off. Like if you just raise

20:19

money to see if this company can

20:21

fly. There is no such thing as

20:24

like raising money and then using that

20:26

entire run rate to be home. Right.

20:28

You know, like, it's just like you

20:30

have to prove your existence. That's the

20:32

reality. Like it's so different running a

20:35

startup or even just working at a

20:37

startup than it is to work corporate

20:39

because you're fighting for your actual existence.

20:41

Wow. That's the definition of startups. Like

20:43

there's no guarantee that the startup is

20:46

going to be around. I feel stressful

20:48

just hearing you say that. Oh yeah.

20:50

Because money will run out. Yeah, all

20:52

the time. Okay. I think I just

20:54

learned to live with the stress. Okay.

20:57

Hold on, hold on. Let's pause here

20:59

for a moment. It really says something

21:01

about American society and how we treat

21:03

mothers that even when being surrounded by

21:05

fellow female founders who were also moms,

21:08

Baba felt like she had to be

21:10

ashamed for wanting to grow both her

21:12

family and her company. Yeah, I definitely

21:14

had a lot of empathy for her.

21:16

I mean, I'm not starting a business,

21:19

but I definitely am trying to balance

21:21

a career in motherhood myself. So I

21:23

feel like I've never been in her

21:25

shoes exactly, but I definitely felt like

21:27

I was in her shoes and can

21:30

only imagine what it must be like

21:32

to literally be pregnant or have children

21:34

at home and trying to manage a

21:36

company and fund it. I just think

21:38

it's amazing that she stuck to her

21:41

instincts, she knew what she wanted to

21:43

build. She didn't build it. What she's

21:45

done and how she's done it is

21:47

really admirable and I think puts her

21:50

on a great trajectory but also really

21:52

is role modeling for other founders that

21:54

can see her and know they can

21:56

do it too. She's stood up for

21:58

herself in a way. that I think

22:01

that I think entrepreneurs can learn a

22:03

lot from her. That's fantastic. What did

22:05

you guys talk about next? When we

22:07

come back, Baba talks about a major

22:09

milestone. You

22:23

have experienced some considerable success, you know,

22:25

sukudos, flash forward. You're in around 500

22:28

support stores now, the first Latin X

22:30

hair care brand, right? Yeah. So congrats

22:32

to that. And you also launched like

22:34

a physical store in 2023. So what

22:36

do you attribute that growth to? Honestly,

22:38

our community. I really feel it in

22:41

my heart that we could not have

22:43

gotten here without them. I feel very

22:45

much the support from our community in

22:47

the sense that our success. is a

22:49

shared success. It's meaningful because of the

22:52

under-representation that we have all experienced. So

22:54

when we entered CIFOR and became the

22:56

first Latina Founded Hair Brand to ever

22:58

do so, our community showed up big.

23:00

We had so much organic posting about

23:03

it, community members like storming into CIFORA

23:05

doors with like ceremony, tote bags. It

23:07

was just like, like that level of

23:09

brand awareness would have been impossible for

23:11

us to gain without the community. Yeah,

23:13

so why start a physical location? You

23:16

know, you have all the exposure to

23:18

the supporters around the country. Why do

23:20

a physical store? What's the benefit there?

23:22

Yeah, so actually because of that because

23:24

at Sephora we have a really hard

23:27

time controlling the brand experience It's a

23:29

wild Wild West, you know, you're competing

23:31

with the customer's attention for so many

23:33

things your real estate is really really

23:35

limited and when we launched at Sephora

23:37

We only had one shelf and we

23:40

were at the bottom like literally were

23:42

on the floor. Oh man. Yeah, I

23:44

mean we're you know the underdog and

23:46

we still are by the way like

23:48

we're still you know proving ourselves out

23:51

and you have to like fight for

23:53

your very expensive in this highly competitive

23:55

space that is the beauty world. So

23:57

I remember feeling like I don't want

23:59

that to define my brand. And we

24:02

are so community-driven and we don't have

24:04

a home for our community. Every time

24:06

we want to gather them, we have

24:08

to reinvent the wheel, recreate a space,

24:10

brand it. And we were actually spending

24:12

so much money in the end. trying

24:15

to create this experience as so by

24:17

having a physical space we not only

24:19

were able to really define our brand

24:21

but we're also able to create a

24:23

home for our community and we're able

24:26

to do things consistently. So were you

24:28

like renting out spaces to have yeah

24:30

you would do you know like a

24:32

buyout you would take over a restaurant

24:34

or you would you know rent out

24:37

a space and now we our flagship

24:39

and it's perfectly on brand we host

24:41

press stays there we do photo shoots

24:43

interviews interviews interviews happy hours, press previews.

24:45

And did her USA kind of prompt

24:47

any of this desire to have a

24:50

physical location? And what is her USA?

24:52

Or what was it? Yeah, honestly this

24:54

was probably 10 years ago when I

24:56

moved to New York. I launched a

24:58

female network called her. I was running

25:01

the US chapter together with a co-founder,

25:03

her name is Marika, and my friend

25:05

was running it in Europe, and it

25:07

was really just a collective to get

25:09

women together to help each other professionally.

25:12

We felt like this was something that

25:14

men were really good at. When they

25:16

meet, they talk work, and they share

25:18

notes, and they introduce each other to

25:20

people. I remember when I met my...

25:22

husband. But by the way is also

25:25

an entrepreneur. Yes, and who sold his

25:27

company and has been a great sort

25:29

of like... We've written about his company.

25:31

Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, of course.

25:33

Yeah, he's been a great inspiration for

25:36

me too. I had basically a front

25:38

row seat to his entire journey with

25:40

Tictail and I remember that like I

25:42

would sit in on conversations with him

25:44

and his friends and the way they

25:47

were about completely different... and then no

25:49

one was even helping each other professionally.

25:51

So I wanted to basically like take

25:53

a page from the men's book and

25:55

apply that in my females fair. And

25:57

I am so glad I did. My

26:00

entire network today somehow leads back to

26:02

her. Oh wow. Yeah, it's incredible. The

26:04

reason I know so many founders today

26:06

and even investors are because of the

26:08

early days of her. like I really

26:11

built my network through peers and we

26:13

were all just you know in our

26:15

early 20s at the time I was

26:17

marketing manager at Uber someone was like

26:19

a marketing manager at Sweet Green someone

26:21

was at Glossy or something and the

26:24

next thing you know these people have

26:26

become right they move on yeah they

26:28

rise up the career ladder and become

26:30

super influential yeah that's amazing to hear

26:32

that and so from that you were

26:35

extending up kind of events these were

26:37

like networking events and the whole idea

26:39

of having a community has seemed to

26:41

have followed you through your career. Yeah,

26:43

I think that's just like the way

26:46

I grew up our. little tiny apartment

26:48

in, you know, like the projects of

26:50

Sweden was the center point of my

26:52

family's community. We would have like my

26:54

cousins over with like their four kids

26:56

in like our two bedroom apartment. No

26:59

questions asked. You know, we would have

27:01

salsa parties. Like community is so ingrained

27:03

in my blood. I don't know anything

27:05

else. So I feel like... What's a

27:07

salsa party like? Does everybody bring their

27:10

own salsa? No, you dance salsa. Oh,

27:12

I'm very food oriented. I mean... I'm

27:14

like, we should add that element though.

27:16

So it's like, do you bring your

27:18

own salsa and then we dance? New

27:21

South Florida coming soon. We're going to

27:23

do it. So we talked about Carl

27:25

for a minute. And you described what

27:27

it's like to have the front row

27:29

seat to seeing his business. How hard

27:31

is it to have two entrepreneurs in

27:34

the family? It is pretty hard. Luckily

27:36

he is an employee now. Oh right,

27:38

right. He works at Shopify. Yeah. So

27:40

he sold his company Shopify and then

27:42

started working there. So I do appreciate

27:45

that. there is at least a little

27:47

bit of stability in our household. Health

27:49

insurance. Exactly. But for a while we

27:51

were, you know, I was running by

27:53

Bob and he was running Tickel and

27:56

I'm glad we only had a dog

27:58

to think about at the time and

28:00

not four kids. But having two professionals

28:02

in general under the same roof with

28:04

very demanding jobs because even though he's

28:06

an employee like he has a super

28:09

demanding job like he has to travel

28:11

if something breaks a drop it like

28:13

he oversees such a big part of

28:15

the company like he's always on call

28:17

right you know yeah so it just

28:20

puts a lot of pressure on a

28:22

system at home so in many ways

28:24

I feel like this past year and

28:26

this year will continue to be a

28:28

period in our life of really setting

28:30

the foundation for what it's like to

28:33

be a family. With one kid you

28:35

can just like wing it. With two

28:37

kids you can almost wing it but

28:39

when you have four kids you're running

28:41

another company. Wow. It's like the Rivera.

28:44

Yeah. This is like a conglomerate almost

28:46

too and you're also renovating a home.

28:48

That's its own headache I'm sure. If

28:50

you tack on ceremonial being... like considered

28:52

your fifth baby. So that's five under

28:55

five if you were to think about

28:57

this. Yes. It's kind of wild. So

28:59

how do you manage it all? Like

29:01

what do you do to stay centered?

29:03

It sounds boring and I never thought

29:05

these words would come out of my

29:08

mouth but routines. I used to hate

29:10

routines and now I am a subscriber

29:12

for teens is where it's at. So

29:14

what's your routine? So the routine is,

29:16

I don't think that the perfect balance

29:19

exists on an every day, every minute

29:21

basis, but I do think that you

29:23

can have it all just not all

29:25

at once. So I've really sort of

29:27

like compartmentalized what I'm focused on right

29:30

now and that doesn't mean I'm not

29:32

going to re-engage with other areas of

29:34

myself at a... later time, but right

29:36

now I'm really really focused on family,

29:38

work, and my health. And you really

29:40

only get to pick three. Like that's

29:43

just a reality of it. And then

29:45

to even make room for those three

29:47

things, you have to be super disciplined.

29:49

So I'm really disciplined about how I

29:51

spend my week and I might not

29:54

have a perfect work-life balance on a

29:56

daily basis, but when I assume out

29:58

on a week basis, my goal is

30:00

to be able to say that that

30:02

was a good week. Yeah, how did

30:05

you learn this rule of three that

30:07

you're talking about? I don't know, maybe

30:09

just like breeding ink. Exactly. I don't

30:11

know. Oh, wait, is that something that's

30:13

very possible? Yeah, very possible. No, but

30:15

I feel like my husband, I always

30:18

come back to that, like you only

30:20

get to pick three. Like whenever we

30:22

try to add a fourth or a,

30:24

you know, a fifth. Things break. I

30:26

don't make up the rules. You're like,

30:29

I've tried it, it doesn't work. Yeah.

30:31

Yeah, we learn. So you also have

30:33

an incredible following. I mean, I was

30:35

just looking on social media for you.

30:37

It's like 175,000 people follow you. I

30:39

mean, you basically become kind of a

30:42

fashion icon, but also people are interested

30:44

in learning about you and your life.

30:46

Does it ever feel like you're putting

30:48

yourself out there and it's exhausting? Yeah,

30:50

honestly, this is a passion. It's really

30:53

just coming from a place of joy

30:55

and I think that's why it flows

30:57

so seamlessly. Like, it was never a

30:59

goal of mine to like acquire followers

31:01

or, you know, like, but for some

31:04

people it is, like, I want to

31:06

be famous or I want this or

31:08

that was never like an end goal

31:10

for me. This is more so a

31:12

byproduct of me pursuing my passions and

31:14

connecting with people, again, connection, community has

31:17

always been super important and... being able

31:19

to do so through my digital platform

31:21

has been such a gift. And it's

31:23

been extremely helpful in business. Like I

31:25

cannot underline that enough. It's helped me

31:28

with product development. It helped me with

31:30

retail relationships. Like we get some retail

31:32

partners because our followers will literally reach

31:34

out to them and be like, why

31:36

can't I buy Saramania here? Yeah, so

31:39

like it has an incredible power, but

31:41

I only think it has that power

31:43

if it's done from a place of

31:45

authenticity. Right, right. So you're being real

31:47

with people. Yeah, like I obviously post

31:49

a lot about ceremony, but if you

31:52

look at my account, it's not a,

31:54

I am the founder of ceremony and

31:56

I only talk about products. Like I

31:58

give a lot of myself and my

32:00

full self and I do it because

32:03

I enjoy it and I love to

32:05

be an expander to people. I feel

32:07

like I grew up with a lot

32:09

of limiting beliefs. I did not have

32:11

any role models in my household or

32:14

in my near preview. have any expanders.

32:16

So if I can play that role

32:18

for someone today, that means a lot.

32:20

Right. And to some degree, what you're

32:22

doing is offering representation, like showing a

32:24

successful, you know, Latino founder is showing

32:27

other people who are just coming up

32:29

that it can be done. That it

32:31

can be done. Yeah, if you can

32:33

see it, you can believe it and

32:35

it's such a cliche, but it really

32:38

stands true. Do you draw a line

32:40

anywhere? Yeah, I think I have an

32:42

invisible line. Like, like, like my kids

32:44

are in my kids are in my

32:46

content here and my content here and

32:48

there, here and there, main characters. You

32:51

know, I'm not trying to make my

32:53

kids famous. Like that's not a purpose.

32:55

And I mean, it can be, right?

32:57

Some people really want their kids to

32:59

be a model or something like that.

33:02

That's not an aspiration of mine. I

33:04

prefer if they don't, but we do

33:06

some shoots together where it feels like

33:08

it's an opportunity to do something together

33:10

that feels joyful. So it's like. It's

33:13

a very like fluid line, you know,

33:15

and I think that is very much

33:17

a representation of how I live my

33:19

life. I don't try to like confine

33:21

myself with too many rules. If it

33:23

feels right, it probably is right. And

33:26

if it doesn't feel right, it probably

33:28

is not right. Did you always want

33:30

to be an entrepreneur? No. I didn't

33:32

even know what entrepreneurship was because it's

33:34

not in my family and risk taking.

33:37

It's also not something that was promoted

33:39

in my family. My mom. pray for

33:41

was for me to one day hopefully

33:43

get a full-time job. Oh yeah. And

33:45

maybe have health insurance, that would be

33:48

great. Like and then I remember I

33:50

got my first job and I mean

33:52

it was you know I think it

33:54

was like a marketing coordinator or something

33:56

and I had like paid vacation. My

33:58

mom was like hold on to that

34:01

job. Instead of being like oh amazing

34:03

like how do you want to grow

34:05

in your career? Like when I'm trying

34:07

to say is that I grew up

34:09

from such a place of scarcity. So,

34:12

entrepreneurship was not even in... this, you

34:14

know, in the vocabulary. It was a

34:16

later realization and in many ways I

34:18

actually think meeting my husband has expanded

34:20

my preview a lot and he also

34:23

comes from a super humble beginning but

34:25

he had more of a risk-taking appetite.

34:27

Yeah, do your parents still live in

34:29

Sweden? Yeah, they do. in his ceremony

34:31

I had to drag her out of

34:33

there. She was like, it is. And

34:36

oh my gosh, you bet they are

34:38

very proud. They cannot stop talking about

34:40

it. I'm sure their friends are like,

34:42

yes, we know. That's so cute. I

34:44

can just imagine your parents, like very

34:47

proud parents, like going to taking pictures

34:49

of all the displays. I actually just

34:51

had my mom here in New York

34:53

and I took her to Sephora yesterday

34:55

because I had to drag her out

34:57

of there. She was like, talk. to

35:00

everyone in Spanish about the brand. Oh,

35:02

that's so sweet. That's so touching. Sorry,

35:04

I have to ask you. So you

35:06

were at the bottom of the shelf,

35:08

and then how did you end up

35:11

with end caps and all that? Yeah.

35:13

So, I mean, the forest is highly

35:15

competitive space, a very data-driven, but I

35:17

will say that they are also mission-driven.

35:19

And I think that they recognize that

35:22

the new generation wants to see representation.

35:24

So even if... The sales data is

35:26

not there to fully confirm that to

35:28

be the case yet. They're willing to

35:30

take some bets. And I see this

35:32

across multiple categories. They have definitely taken

35:35

a bet on us. I'm a small...

35:37

investor in Amicole, and they are also

35:39

part of the makeup's next big thing,

35:41

and they're black-owned, and they're also part

35:43

of the 15% pledge, which doesn't help

35:46

us Latinx people, but it helps. It

35:48

speaks to the mission. Yeah, and like

35:50

it just speaks to the mission at

35:52

large for Sepora. So I think what

35:54

Sirmonia brings to Sepora is that we

35:57

are truly the cleanest of hair care,

35:59

and we are one of the very

36:01

few brands that is rooteded in culture.

36:03

and the new generation is really, really

36:05

craving culture. We see this across on

36:07

Tiktok, even like Divali, I feel like,

36:10

was a huge thing this year and

36:12

the Hispanic Heritage Month grows every year.

36:14

So I think Sephora recognizes that the

36:16

future of beauty is multicultural. And they

36:18

probably know that 30% of the population

36:21

will be Hispanic. Next one day. And

36:23

then your best advice for fellow female

36:25

founders. focus on your strength and don't

36:27

beat yourself up too much about your

36:29

weaknesses. Early on I learned, I think

36:32

the old school leadership school was that

36:34

you should make your weaknesses your strengths

36:36

and I don't think that's realistic. I

36:38

think we can spend a whole lifetime

36:40

trying to improve our weaknesses and we

36:42

obviously can but it will be in

36:45

incrementals. Right. But if we double down

36:47

on our strength we can have astronomical

36:49

impact. Right. Now that makes sense. You're

36:51

wasting your time almost. You know, trying

36:53

to fix yourself. And it doesn't mean

36:56

that you shouldn't like acknowledge and try

36:58

to be better in the areas where

37:00

you're not good. Like I work on

37:02

my weaknesses too, but I don't think

37:04

that's where I'm going to have the

37:06

biggest impact. Right. And in the end,

37:09

you could also barter. Right? Yes. Exactly.

37:11

I mean, that's the learning, right? Just

37:13

do a knowledge exchange for someone. Yeah.

37:15

Well. I'm left with both admiration and

37:17

curiosity. I'm curious where she'll go next.

37:20

What are the new mountains she'll climb?

37:22

An admiration in the sense that she

37:24

stuck to her principles when it concerned

37:26

her company and the branch she

37:28

to build. to build. also

37:31

doing it all

37:33

with it kids at

37:35

home under the age

37:37

of home under the course,

37:39

it helps that

37:41

she's been comfortable putting

37:44

herself out there,

37:46

but her persistence is

37:48

what strikes me. out

37:50

That's a lesson

37:52

for all of us.

37:55

is what strikes me. That's a lesson

37:57

for all of us. That's all for

37:59

this all for this

38:01

episode of the Ground

38:03

Up. Up. Be sure

38:06

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out channels. Inc's social channels. From

38:34

the produced by Avery

38:36

Miles, by Avery Miles, Sam Gabour,

38:38

and with Diana Ransom myself. Lead

38:40

Lead producer is Blake Odom, editing

38:43

editing by Matt mix and sound mix

38:45

and sound design by Nicholas Torres.

38:47

Our executive producer is Josh Josh

38:50

Thanks for listening and we'll see

38:52

you next we'll see you next week. Panicly.