0:00

I'm Hello

0:25

and welcome to From the Rooker End,

0:27

outside the mad squirrel. We don't do

0:29

it inside, it's quite loud. W.D.18 has

0:31

done theirs in there. The Voice of

0:33

the Vic done there is outside as

0:35

well. We're the last. But that's becoming

0:38

the thing about from the Rooker End

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because we're too busy drinking up here

0:42

and talking. My name is John. With

0:44

me outside is Jason. Good afternoon or

0:46

whenever you are listening to your podcast.

0:48

But it is the afternoon because it

0:51

was an early kickoff. Kiericicicop. and well

0:53

we're a bit bit delayed because Michael

0:55

had parking problems but parking for parking

0:57

but there you go by leaving that

0:59

game yeah having seen all the things

1:01

that happened particularly the first I will

1:04

talk about those in a minute I've

1:06

I find a weird feeling of I'm

1:08

alright with that not that I was

1:10

happy with it not that I was

1:12

overly frustrated with it but I was

1:15

alright how about you? Yeah, look, I

1:17

mean if you're taking the game in

1:19

isolation, then I agree with you. I

1:21

think the second half in particular was

1:23

a strong performance. They obviously reorganized at

1:25

half-time and I think the players largely

1:27

did what Tom Arsen to do. They

1:29

looked like they were working, well, it

1:32

didn't look like they were working hard.

1:34

They did work hard. They stayed in

1:36

the game and didn't create much, but...

1:38

Norwich didn't have it all

1:40

their own way against 10 men

1:42

and I think if we'd have

1:44

snuck an equaliser I don't think

1:46

there could have been any arguments

1:49

Norwich decided to stick instead of

1:51

twist that probably gave us

1:53

a little bit of a bit of

1:55

hope and they warmed their tasks pretty

1:57

well as the second half went

1:59

on. it smacked a four-nill and

2:01

down to nine men because everyone

2:03

was fractious the players were upset

2:05

the crowd was upset Norwich with

2:07

sort of leaning into that as

2:09

you as they would and it

2:11

just felt for all the world

2:13

like the wheels could come off

2:15

quite significantly and quite quickly the

2:18

fact they didn't is probably it's a

2:20

small comfort but it is comfort and

2:22

I think the players who stayed out

2:24

there for that for that second half

2:27

can take pride in the fact that

2:29

yeah they've probably deserved if we'd have

2:31

got an equalizer somehow no one could

2:33

have complained and I think that's

2:35

that's that's credit too. Yeah chase

2:38

the game though when you saw

2:40

that team we know that we

2:42

are a injury stricken team. Was

2:44

there anything you thought that you

2:46

could you see how Watford we're

2:48

going to be successful in that

2:50

game from that starting lineup with

2:52

no vata? He's must have got

2:54

a knock in the well, it

2:56

didn't come up in the press

2:58

conference. Knock in the knee I

3:00

believe. Yeah, but did you mention

3:02

the press conference before it?

3:04

It was, does that make

3:06

a knock-o-vatter? A banquet. A

3:08

banquet? Who I've always wanted

3:10

to school, Banquo, because I've

3:13

done Macbeth far too many

3:15

times in my class at

3:17

school, a banquet at the

3:19

centre back? How are you

3:21

feeling at the beginning of

3:23

the game with that line up?

3:25

When I saw it, I was, it took

3:27

me a while to try and work

3:29

it out and I think I saw

3:32

him playing a right back. And I

3:34

think when he played it right

3:36

back before... I was surprised, more surprised

3:38

to see him playing there, less surprised

3:40

to see him playing as a centre

3:42

back. Was he right back on right

3:44

of a back three? No, he played

3:46

right back against press, didn't he? Yeah.

3:48

So, and as he sort of worked it out

3:51

and watched it again, he took, I don't know

3:53

about you, I think he took me a while,

3:55

because you asked me a few times, what are

3:57

we playing? And he took me a while to

3:59

work. okay, the formation we were planning,

4:02

it looked like it was a 441,

4:04

41 in the end. But I guess

4:06

it made sense in terms of my

4:08

worry that the back 4 was, we've

4:11

got a back 4, we're playing Andrews'

4:13

quite a tack in. And

4:15

we're playing LaRousie who

4:17

defending maybe comes under question.

4:20

And that worried me, but

4:22

then as you saw the rest of

4:24

the line up moving forward, okay,

4:26

we have no width. So actually

4:29

now, having Andrew's on the right,

4:31

LaRousie on the left, that makes

4:33

sense because that is where the

4:36

width has got to come from.

4:38

And as you watched the game

4:40

developing those early moments before, it

4:42

all changed with the red card.

4:45

You could see loser, again playing

4:47

that sort of the one in

4:49

the 441, really sort of dropping

4:51

back deep. At times, was the

4:54

last man. He was a sweeper.

4:56

And yeah, he allowed the... So

4:58

the two fallbacks to get forward

5:00

and perhaps, I don't know, early on,

5:02

more so on the right, I

5:04

thought Andrew's got forward to good effect.

5:07

As we know, doesn't always play

5:09

the right ball or a successful ball,

5:11

but that's where it looked like success

5:13

would come from. And the chance

5:15

for Bayo, before he got sent off,

5:18

did come down that side. So yeah,

5:20

you could see why... in the

5:22

end he sort of went with that

5:24

lineup. Why you call that a bold

5:27

thing for Tom to do to

5:29

start because we talked about the first

5:31

couple of minutes and there was a

5:33

very good chance for an orange very early

5:35

on and we've been consistent with letting a

5:38

golden early but it didn't because it was

5:40

a great save maybe bad shot but a

5:42

great save from Bon. You said on the

5:45

group bold, the bold thing for Tom to

5:47

do. Because we got a right back in

5:49

the left back in the left back who

5:51

don't like defending. And so that leaves you

5:54

two centerbacks as really as your as your

5:56

rear guard action. Jason has articulated it much

5:58

better than I ever could. hope to

6:00

and as it panned out it did

6:02

work sort of reasonably reasonably well but

6:05

you mentioned it there not flip I

6:07

don't mean it flippantly but you snuck

6:09

it in there we were almost behind

6:11

inside a minute and I think Norwich

6:14

100% went at us at a million

6:16

miles an hour from the kickoff to

6:18

do exactly that and it was far

6:20

too easy and it was a great

6:23

save by bond but they should have

6:25

scored and it should have been one

6:27

nil within a minute. and I don't

6:29

know how it happens, why it

6:31

happens or how we fix it.

6:34

But again, it's ridiculous. You're potentially

6:36

going start, you might as well,

6:38

not might as well, that's over

6:40

regging it. You're virtually starting every

6:42

game at one nil down. And

6:44

when we have got such a

6:46

problem, creating chances and scoring goals,

6:49

starting a game at one nil

6:51

down is... Of all the Achilles,

6:53

I mean, we've only got, you've

6:55

only got two heels, but we've

6:57

got about five Achilles heels at

6:59

the moment and somehow that's gonna stop.

7:01

But yeah, I think as the game

7:04

war on, I think it was a

7:06

gamble that, and Tom is having to

7:08

gamble because squad is ludicrously threadbare and

7:10

I do mean ludicrously threadbare. It is.

7:13

it's a nonsense really that that's what

7:15

we're that was being put out there

7:17

and he's having to gamble that was

7:19

a gamble today and it did work

7:22

out but and I think we've been

7:24

sort of not critical but we've spoken

7:26

about Tom has been very pragmatic and

7:28

we've sort of accepted that that is

7:30

his approach to keep it tight and then hopefully

7:33

get one on the counter or keep it tight

7:35

and then grow into the game he is a

7:37

pragmatic head coach that that is his style he'd

7:39

rather keep it tight than be But yeah, I

7:41

did I did think it was a bold move

7:43

and a fair play to both those those guys

7:46

They they did they did well and while we're

7:48

on the defenders I think a banquet and Pollock

7:50

were Men of the match. I think here when

7:52

you said it in your stolen your thunder there

7:54

You said it in the said it in the

7:57

group. I think a bank with Sean and I

7:59

think Matty Pollock's so once again his

8:01

captaincy credentials in that center back

8:03

pairing and if nothing else today

8:05

we found some perhaps hit on

8:08

something there that might give us

8:10

a little bit of hope and

8:12

a little bit of stability despite

8:14

almost conceding within a inside 60

8:17

seconds. Kieran you say that was

8:19

Pollock was brilliant you know he

8:21

was everything you wanted to be

8:23

there's one moment where I think

8:26

Paul played in and he did

8:28

a last dish. threw himself out

8:30

and the noise striker tried to scurp

8:32

and the noise player came worse off

8:34

because that's exactly what Matti Pollock's all

8:37

about and the fact he got the

8:39

man in the match and just how

8:41

quickly he has become whatever you want

8:44

to say about who wears the iron

8:46

band and Moses Soko but he is

8:48

just such a integral part of the

8:50

character of this club of this team.

8:53

Yeah he's no nonsense isn't he, I

8:55

mean Mike... Mike said we have two

8:57

fallbacks that don't like defending. We had

8:59

two centerbacks who really liked it. Because they

9:01

did, they threw their body in front of

9:04

everything. I thought a banquet and Pollock were

9:06

both superb and I think especially for a

9:08

banquet who was let's not forget hold off

9:10

at half-time in the last home game because

9:12

he struggled out in that right-back position. I

9:14

think we saw him in what is probably

9:16

his best position. So yeah both both really

9:18

defended for their lives and they have to

9:20

because as Mike said we start so slowly

9:23

we start so slowly we are we are.

9:25

on the back foot almost from the off.

9:27

I mean where both of them were when

9:29

Josh Chargen had the goal to his mercy

9:31

I don't know but other than that I

9:33

think both of them played pretty well and

9:35

Norwich didn't create a huge number of chances

9:37

they had that one at the start they

9:39

had a succession of corners didn't they near

9:41

the beginning but I think a large part

9:44

of that was because Pollock and a bank

9:46

were putting their bodies on the line and

9:48

we could have been a few down if

9:50

it hadn't been for them but... I thought

9:52

that if we can, you know, if we

9:54

can get those to, um, building a bit of

9:56

a relationship, but I think I said on

9:58

a previous part, again... It's another defensive

10:00

change at the back from Tom Kevin.

10:03

I wouldn't be able to tell you

10:05

the last time we had back-to-back games

10:07

with the same back three or back

10:09

four, but just a little bit of

10:11

hope there that a banker and Pollock

10:13

could potentially be that that center back

10:15

pairing for a little while longer if

10:17

they can continue to play like that.

10:20

Just on Pollock, sorry John, and in

10:22

his captaincy credentials that we've spoken about,

10:24

after the sending off, the first thing

10:26

I saw was Pollock going around. just

10:28

pointing to his head. Yeah, he was doing

10:30

it. He was riding it. I only saw that because

10:32

the lovely fact it was on it. You did it

10:34

as well Q and I saw you doing it. And

10:36

you go on your phone you go on that TV

10:38

and you go right and literally a minute it loed

10:41

you go this the moment. I like that but you

10:43

saw him going like yeah and you think that's and

10:45

he wasn't saying it to the players in some ways.

10:47

He said it who say it's the bench. He ran

10:49

it over didn't he ran straight over didn't he ran

10:51

straight over to the bench to the bench to the

10:53

bench to talk to talk to Tom and the coach

10:55

to Tom and the coaching staff. because he clearly wanted

10:57

to get the instructions very quickly so that he could

10:59

get them out to the place. Yeah and

11:01

that's impressive and when stuff like that

11:03

happens your mind is like it's fine

11:05

for us in the stand saying oh

11:07

God what is it 20 25 minutes

11:09

gone that's the game you know you're

11:11

all up in arms and you're annoyed

11:14

you crossed you're worried I think that's

11:16

impressive for for for Matipolic to have

11:18

taken that mantle and to... At first

11:20

I thought it was him that was

11:22

sent off because he was running over.

11:24

Who was it? What's going on for

11:26

ages? I'm glad it wasn't. Because if

11:28

it's going to be anyone, if there's

11:30

anyone we could afford to lose,

11:32

I think the right man went.

11:34

But yeah, Captain's shine in specific

11:36

situations and they're not always the

11:39

situations he want them to be,

11:41

but he did a captain's job

11:43

there, I thought, sorry Jay's. Moose

11:45

was actually caption today, wasn't doing

11:47

that. Perhaps there are questions around

11:50

Moose's ability to be captain despite

11:52

the fact that he is old.

11:54

Old, sorry. I was going to

11:56

say one of the more senior

11:59

players at the club. Ironically, Matti

12:01

had a bit of an issue

12:03

and looked like he was losing

12:05

his head a bit when defending

12:07

a corner early in the game.

12:09

What was it Mike? They had

12:11

12, 13, 14, 15 and 16,

12:13

they had minutes, they had corners.

12:15

So in one of those, I

12:17

think he was up against, I

12:19

think it was Duffy who very

12:22

cleverly grabbed hold of his shirt,

12:24

spun him around and ran off

12:26

and the ref didn't pick it

12:28

up at all. Have you ever seen

12:30

pick up some up? You tell me

12:32

they've been picking them up? Yeah, funnily

12:34

enough. And it might have been before

12:36

this, where they were, before according, even

12:38

been taken, there was a lot of

12:40

chewing and throwing and pushing and I'm

12:42

sure we'll talk about that in the

12:45

other box later on. And the ref

12:47

came in and Matti was clearly upset,

12:49

annoyed, getting a bit frustrated and whether

12:51

he's close to losing his head or

12:53

not, I don't know. But Moosea actually...

12:55

grabbed hold of him and took him

12:57

away from the situation and a little

12:59

quiet word in his ear and was doing

13:01

captain things and I must be I was I

13:04

was wow I've not seen you do that

13:06

before quite not always enamored with his

13:08

ability to be capsing there he did

13:10

but then again yeah when the red

13:12

card happens it's Maddie leading the way

13:14

and going over to the bench to find out

13:16

what we should be doing moving forward but you sort

13:19

of what you always want more than one captain you

13:21

yeah you want to have Even young players, like he

13:23

is, you want them to have the ability and the

13:25

feel the power that they have to say, look, I

13:27

can do something, I can make changes, I'm not just

13:30

waiting for someone to tell me what to do, and

13:32

that's what, I love an act product, you know, he

13:34

is, yes he has had the album band for a

13:36

while, but there's a lot more, it's constant, and it's

13:38

beautiful, I just, we had a conversation in the, in

13:41

the, in the, in the recovery, in the rookery, like,

13:43

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, around,

13:45

like, like, like, around, like, like, like, like, around, like,

13:47

like, like, around, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

13:49

around, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

13:51

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

13:53

like If things keep going hard, if things keep

13:55

as tough as they're going to be, he

13:57

might shine through and be an easy choice.

14:00

But let's talk about the sending off,

14:02

Kieran! Again, we were flummoxed about what

14:04

was going on and what even happened,

14:06

but thanks to the Now TV, that

14:09

I was watching, that what you were

14:11

watching, you were watching, but you could

14:13

rewind and see it, and you could

14:15

just see someone who, do you feel

14:18

he overreacted or just stupidly reacted? The

14:20

players overreacted, absolutely, but the problem is,

14:22

and we hear it so often, don't

14:24

we, is that if you raise your

14:26

hands to a player, you are giving

14:28

the referee a decision to make, and

14:30

you have to in that situation, you

14:32

have to be the bigger player and

14:34

the bigger man, and you have to

14:36

ignore the goading that is going to

14:38

come your way. It's a silly red

14:40

card, it's a soft red card, but

14:42

some will probably disagree. It is a

14:45

red card. You know, he's pushed him

14:47

in the throat. And in that situation,

14:49

you need to try and take yourself

14:51

away from it. So yeah, really disappointing,

14:53

massive lack of discipline from bio. I

14:55

joked with a few of the guys.

14:58

It was Tom Cleverly's way of, I

15:00

think he's taken one for the team,

15:02

you know, back in going to get

15:04

yourself a red card, it adds weight

15:06

to my request for a new striker.

15:09

But yeah, disappointing because it meant that,

15:11

you know, we don't have, or we

15:13

didn't have a striker on the bench,

15:15

did we, did we, did we? up

15:18

top and then obviously second half it

15:20

meant that we had to reshuffle. Yeah

15:22

it was I suppose again Michael in

15:24

trying to be as nice as we

15:26

can did it make a difference that

15:29

he went off and he was on

15:31

himself I mean I said in that

15:33

I said in the in the group

15:35

It doesn't really, Tom doesn't really have

15:38

to reshuffle, we started the game without

15:40

a striker and now we still haven't

15:42

got a striker, I mean, I feel

15:44

like, I feel in some regards, I

15:46

feel in some regards, overall I feel

15:49

sorry for vacuum buyer because I think

15:51

starting him up front as a lone

15:53

striker in the championship is like asking

15:55

me to go and take a Mandarin

15:58

class as a Mandarin professor. I can't

16:00

speak the language, I've got no

16:02

idea, I can't do it. Vacuum

16:04

Bio doesn't speak the language of

16:06

Striker at this level, he's just

16:08

nowhere near it, he's just not

16:10

good enough. And for him to

16:12

compound it with... just petulance and

16:14

Kieran's absolutely right. The Norwich players

16:16

got him sent off with his

16:18

reaction. That's what he's gone down

16:20

to get him sent off. That's

16:22

been his, that's what he wanted

16:24

to happen and that's what happened.

16:26

The rest bought it, he said

16:28

at half time to Tom that

16:30

he thought it was an elbow, such

16:33

was the way the guy's gone gone

16:35

down down. He didn't need to go

16:37

down like that. It happens all the

16:39

time, that's sort of pushing it shoving.

16:42

That's Kieran rightly said, it's entirely back

16:44

in bias fault. You put your hands

16:46

up anywhere near that part of the

16:49

body, our players would have done exactly

16:51

the same, I've no doubt about it.

16:53

And there's no way that that's anything

16:56

other than a red card in that

16:58

series of events. And to make matters

17:00

worse, he knows he's our

17:02

only real frontline striker. He

17:04

knows that he's the hopes

17:07

of our goal scoring, rests

17:09

on his... wings they'll crow.

17:11

Crows don't have shoulders do

17:13

they? Not getting into the

17:15

anatomy of a bloody common

17:17

or garden crow. He knows

17:19

what his job is and

17:22

he knows that there's and

17:24

he's just and he's just

17:26

absolutely chucked it away there.

17:28

A bit it was it

17:30

was thoughtless, impudent, it was petulant,

17:33

it was ghastly and unfortunately But

17:35

I think what it does do,

17:37

and we'll go on to talk

17:40

about this, it sums up the,

17:42

I'm still utterly, utterly incredulous that

17:44

as a football club, that is

17:47

our striking option. We put some

17:49

eggs in the Jefferson basket, which

17:52

became very, very clear, very early,

17:54

that that wasn't going to work.

17:56

But even, but having just bio

17:59

and Jefferson. Wasn't sorry what's

18:01

the other what's the other guy

18:03

called? Dumbia. Having Bia and even

18:05

when we had Jebison and Dumbia

18:08

who's a youngster who hasn't played

18:10

much football even that is nowhere

18:13

near enough nowhere near enough in

18:15

terms of in terms of quality

18:17

and what we can call on

18:20

in terms of striking options now

18:22

we're down to Bia for the

18:24

next three matches but the

18:26

fact that we are in

18:28

that situation is I've been

18:30

saying, we've all been saying

18:32

it's not for weeks, for

18:34

months. It is, I cannot

18:36

summon the words to describe

18:38

that it's just insanity for

18:40

a football club at this

18:42

level for that to be

18:44

your striking options. It's a

18:46

joke. It's an absolute joke.

18:48

And now what have we

18:50

got? We're recording this Saturday

18:52

afternoon. The transfer window closes at 11

18:55

o'clock on Monday. So we've got now we've

18:57

got Dumbia for three for three for three

18:59

games is our only striker Our only striker

19:01

we know nothing about him. We've seen we've

19:03

seen so little of it And what we

19:05

have seen like you said he's playing that

19:08

loan roll up front. I have no idea

19:10

what strength is weaknesses I've no idea if

19:12

he's any good no idea what sort of

19:14

I haven't seen him have any kind of

19:16

clear opportunity on goals Isn't it look like

19:18

scoring because he hasn't looked like scoring because

19:21

he hasn't looked like scoring scoring because he

19:23

hasn't looked like scoring look like scoring

19:25

because he hasn't look like scoring because

19:27

he's the next one off the rank

19:29

almost it felt like anyway the next

19:31

one to be a big salon but

19:33

he needs to play some minutes he's

19:35

now gonna pay a lot of minutes

19:37

yeah well you assume so but you

19:39

cannot labour the point enough it is

19:41

barking mad and as a supporter we've

19:43

been entertained today right it's been actually

19:45

been a really really good game you

19:47

strip away all the outside noise and

19:49

the tumult that's gone around what for

19:52

the last couple of weeks that's just

19:54

an enjoyable championship game ad

19:56

this that and the other

19:58

But we are... As supporters,

20:00

you sort of, you're going to

20:02

watch a film and a film needs

20:04

to have a beginning and a middle

20:06

and an end. We're going to watch

20:08

a team that hasn't got the appropriate

20:11

constituent parts to play its part in

20:13

a football match, in championship level. We

20:15

just haven't. It's not there. So what

20:17

are we turning up to see? We're

20:19

turning up to see a team scrap

20:21

and battle and on all season long,

20:23

they have found a way more often

20:25

than not at home. The wheels have

20:27

come off recently and I don't. We've

20:29

been taking a life to a gunfight.

20:31

All season. We've worked hard, as

20:33

we've seen today, and sometimes that's

20:35

come off. Late winners against Portsmouth,

20:38

we've turned over teams who have

20:40

got better personnel than us because

20:42

we've worked so hard and been

20:44

organised. But that couldn't continue. And

20:46

now it's been completely laid bare.

20:49

The injuries and now suspension that

20:51

just showed just how, I'm going

20:53

to say it, pathetically thin this

20:55

squad is. It's not a criticism

20:57

of any individual player. But the

21:00

assortment, the squad is just woefully,

21:02

woefully short for this level where

21:04

everyone knows what the championship is

21:06

like. Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday, Carlin

21:08

Cup, FA Cup. You know what's

21:10

coming and you know the level

21:12

that's required and for us to

21:15

be so far off it in

21:17

terms of personnel is a joke.

21:19

I understand why potentially but it's

21:21

so far sure we're being let

21:23

down really. if we knew about

21:25

stuff would be different in a

21:27

minute. But Jason, the gold came

21:29

from, they were really to the

21:32

free kicks and stuff and it was

21:34

a, you know, it was a five

21:36

minute spell I suppose after sending off

21:38

and we were a bit all over

21:40

the place in a bit, you know,

21:43

in our heads let's say and maybe

21:45

that's why the gold went in. But

21:47

more importantly I wanted, I talked about

21:49

the second half now, you know, the

21:52

fact that I left that game not

21:54

disheartened thinking of the attitude of the

21:56

players as a team thinking that's the

21:58

Tom cleverly in them. It's the important

22:00

bit that we, a new manager, if

22:03

there had been a change in the

22:05

last week, that wouldn't have necessarily happened.

22:07

The, the camaraderie, the togetherness, but you

22:09

know what I mean? It was great

22:12

to see that, you know what I

22:14

mean? It was great to see that,

22:16

you know, Mike tweets it, but I

22:18

did think it was well, Mike, I

22:20

wasn't as pessimistic, I was just pessimistic

22:23

with you, you thought this is going

22:25

to be four nil, but we're still

22:27

only one nil. one one if not

22:29

maybe two one I did speak to

22:31

Arlo parking over there he does not

22:34

take over his father he said to

22:36

me he said I said oh what

22:38

do you think half time what it

22:40

was gonna be he went to one

22:42

wolford he's the man of a after

22:44

something's happened but the second half performance

22:46

was was great it was it was

22:49

it was it like you say as

22:51

good as it could be unfortunately you

22:53

don't get any points for for that

22:55

no it's still zero points but We

22:57

did have a go. And it was

22:59

measured, it wasn't silly, it

23:01

wasn't gung-ho. I was expecting

23:04

the second goal to come on

23:06

a counter-attack from the fact that

23:08

we had them to go. But

23:11

actually, we did quite, the defenders

23:13

kept fighting, people kept chasing back,

23:15

it got tougher and tougher as

23:17

the game went on as players

23:20

got tired. And I almost

23:22

felt that the changes almost

23:24

took... took the momentum and

23:26

the impetus away from us

23:28

a little bit because the

23:30

guys that started that

23:32

second half really did I

23:34

think play as good a game as

23:37

they possibly could in terms of 10

23:39

men 1 nil down. Yeah, just measured

23:41

enough that they weren't throwing

23:43

the game away but staying

23:45

in the game but still

23:47

attacking. Then we made the

23:49

changes and it felt... And

23:52

as it always seems to do these days,

23:54

the games came a bit disjointed and it

23:56

sort of took it away from us. I

23:58

may have been happy to give Given that

24:00

we've got a week off, we don't

24:03

have a mid-week game this week, I'd

24:05

have probably been happy if you could

24:07

have left that 11 on the pitch,

24:09

you might have changed one or two,

24:12

but how'd you get them on there

24:14

and say 11, 10, sorry. And we

24:16

kept them on there and kept them

24:19

on there and kept them on there

24:21

and kept the momentum going. It might

24:23

have worked better, but ifs and buts

24:25

I don't know, the telling one for

24:28

me was adupoke. Chase down from behind,

24:30

playing it off him, and I go

24:32

look, yeah, players are better in this

24:34

league. Second time he's got it, he's

24:36

got the ball, he's squared up, two

24:38

defenders, tried to play a ball through,

24:40

cup ball through for Ryan Andrews, they've

24:42

read it, they've come over the ball.

24:44

Next time Ryan Andrews gets the ball

24:46

on the right-hand side, he's looked. No,

24:48

I'm not going to play the ball

24:50

down to you. I'm going to come

24:52

back inside, slow our attack down that

24:54

wasn't happening. When we were going forward,

24:56

we kept looking forward, even with 10

24:58

men, all of a sudden now we're

25:00

checking back the other way and it

25:02

just slowed things down a bit for

25:05

me. But that was really late. That

25:07

was like the 89th minute. Tom's gone

25:09

right. I've seen a bio go off.

25:11

He probably feels he has to have

25:13

a certain number of players available to

25:15

him or his options available to him.

25:17

So let's get a little silly moments

25:19

out of the way. which he did.

25:21

But yeah, he wasn't, he didn't change

25:23

the game but we weren't expecting that

25:25

necessarily. Kieran, who for you were your

25:27

top man in the game? I think

25:30

we spoke about them, the two centerbacks, were

25:32

the two best players. I thought Iran loser

25:34

did well as well in midfield. But yeah,

25:36

I think I think they were there with

25:38

the standouts. I bought, actually, you know what?

25:41

We've given him some stick and I listened

25:43

to the podcast that Jason Dave did with

25:45

Matt furnace in the week. and Matt was

25:47

understandably and I think fairly quite scathing of

25:50

news is so good. I thought he did

25:52

quite well at right wing in his head.

25:54

He was excited about, oh can I run

25:56

forward a minute, can I, can I be

25:59

a bit more... I can't think about going in

26:01

one direction, didn't he? The problem is that we know

26:03

that his legs aren't there now, so he'd feel he's

26:05

having to go back and forward, but literally all he

26:07

had to do was wait for the ball to come

26:10

to him and move forward. He didn't really do much

26:12

tracking back, did he? But, no, the two, the two

26:14

centerbacks were the best players for me. I don't know,

26:16

the two, the two centerbacks were the best players for

26:18

me. The thing about loser for me that stood out

26:21

today that stood out today was, was the fact, was

26:23

the fact, was a loose ball, was a loose ball.

26:25

Whenever there was a loose ball. loser was on it.

26:27

It was just yeah just to combat that engine again

26:29

it was yeah looseball loser just really impressive

26:32

on on that front today. It's interesting

26:34

I think I've just read a very

26:36

quick social media post from Tom cleverly

26:38

on on Facebook and I think he's

26:40

probably giving the man the match to

26:42

the referee because he has actually called

26:44

him out. I think I think loser

26:46

does deserve credit because he's His resurgence

26:48

does continue, I think he's having less

26:50

impact on games as Watford's performances have

26:52

been a bit lived in the past

26:54

couple of weeks. But what I do

26:56

like is he treads a line with

26:58

his attitude, but we do need a bit

27:00

more of that. Someone who's going to stand up

27:02

to the opposition. We get pushed around a lot

27:04

and we see other opposition teams winning fouls and

27:06

talking to refs and playing the, you know, master

27:09

in the dark arts a little bit. There's a

27:11

little bit of the devil in him, he's got

27:13

that sparkle in him, he's got that sparkle in

27:15

him, he's got that sparkle in him, he's got

27:17

that sparkle in him, he's got that sparkle in

27:19

him, he's got that sparkle in him, he's got

27:21

that spark. and perhaps we need to see more

27:24

of that and he needs to instill a bit

27:26

of that in in some of his colleagues but

27:28

he so as this team continues to dwindle

27:30

in terms of size and quality

27:32

players like him are going to

27:34

be important and he stepped over

27:36

the market at the end he

27:39

was trying to stop people shaking

27:41

hands with the with the ref

27:43

because he's you know this is

27:45

is as is such that but

27:47

I think played well he deserves

27:49

credit continuing credit especially considering where

27:51

he's come from in terms of

27:54

his and terms of his Watford

27:56

career was dead wouldn't it is

27:58

so for him to to come

28:00

back and for us to be speaking

28:02

so glowingly of him on a regular

28:04

basis I don't think any of us

28:06

expected that. I think the refereeing performances

28:08

as a rule at this level have

28:11

been poor. I think we've seen there's

28:13

little stuff like the guy's boots come

28:15

off today and he stood there and

28:17

waited for him to get his boot

28:19

back on. There's no one else's problem

28:21

apart from his. You play on and

28:23

that was about a minute of the

28:25

five minutes taken up with that. There's

28:27

nonsense with throw-ins. Every team does it.

28:30

Watford included. But I think the

28:32

level of non-football-based activity that goes,

28:34

I think it's hit an all-time

28:36

high this year from what I've

28:39

seen. And yes, it's frustrating. We've

28:41

often been chasing the game. And

28:43

yes, we love it when we're

28:46

the ones doing it. But really,

28:48

people talk about anti-football in terms

28:50

of long balls and stuff like

28:53

that. This is real. anti-football. It's

28:55

the guys got them sent off.

28:57

The Norwich fans are howling for

29:00

Andrews to be sent off. It's becoming

29:02

so often it's less about the actual

29:04

football and a really brilliant move or

29:06

a brilliant finish or a last ditch

29:09

tackle and more about... how we take

29:11

the sting out the game by giving

29:13

it to four people before you take

29:15

her, throw in, before you're going to

29:18

sub the player off you tell him

29:20

you're coming off in 30 seconds so

29:22

you tell him to get to the

29:24

right as far away from the touchline

29:26

as possible all this and you can

29:29

call it managing the game if

29:31

you like but what it actually

29:33

is is cheating spectators out of

29:35

what we go to see which

29:37

is actual football the amount of

29:39

football we see it decreases week

29:41

on week. Refs get a tough

29:44

time, but their job is becoming

29:46

harder and harder and harder. You've

29:48

got players not only trying to

29:50

cheat them in terms of free

29:52

kicks, yellow cards and reds, but

29:54

also in terms of not playing

29:57

the game, stopping the game. And

29:59

it's really... It's great. I was trying

30:01

to say Ollie Wicken, he hates it. Absolutely

30:03

hates it. The whole thing was holding somebody.

30:05

Where do you get these things sorted? I'm

30:07

a primary school teacher and I often have

30:10

to deal with behaviour or things and how

30:12

do you deal with it. You can deal

30:14

with these things if you actually get down

30:16

and you deal with them and you deal

30:18

with them and many of them at any

30:21

point have dealt with them in the right

30:23

way. Where the ons, you're the ons. Kevin,

30:28

this week we saw a... well you

30:30

would have heard the podcast last week

30:33

with Mike. Very much. Very good. Sorry

30:35

about that. I have a touch on

30:37

people today, it was a Mike's chicken

30:39

licking podcast where the sky is falling

30:42

in. But it's not as crazy as

30:44

chicken licking was. We know he's got

30:46

a good thing about it. The club

30:48

come out, you know, the fact that

30:51

we were we've been so focused on

30:53

Geno, but the fact the club came

30:55

out. Your man who's worked in

30:57

PR, in... for the FIFA, for

30:59

your waiver, other organisations as well.

31:02

The fact that they put Nanny

31:04

out there, who is in the

31:06

middle of a transfer window, where

31:08

fans are being critical of things,

31:11

in an interview that he answered

31:13

questions, but did he really answer

31:15

questions? How do you feel about

31:17

that as a move though, like

31:20

the fact that he is part

31:22

of the senior team, but he's

31:24

not... the senior team. Yeah, that

31:26

is an example of responding to

31:29

calls from fans to want to

31:31

hear from someone within the club,

31:33

but putting someone up who doesn't have

31:36

the answers to what the questions are

31:38

from those fans and from Andrew French

31:40

who did the interview. Ultimately, Jean-Lucanani is...

31:43

Not going to give an awful lot

31:45

away because let's be honest. There's not

31:47

an awful lot to give away at

31:50

the moment because well It's not well.

31:52

I mean I guess in the sense

31:54

of we're talking about transfers. We're done

31:56

in your business. There's nothing nothing to

31:59

talk about He's talked about, I only

32:01

saw bits of it, but sort of

32:03

the financial side and how we're trying

32:06

to, you know, trying to deal with

32:08

the situation that we're in. I do

32:10

feel that there is starting to be

32:13

a bit of a reality check, but

32:15

in the past we've kind of heard

32:17

about the club being in a good

32:20

position and we're trying to do the

32:22

best that we can and things like

32:24

that. But I just think it was

32:27

an opportunity to... use someone to paper

32:29

over cracks when actually we wanted

32:31

to hear from the main man

32:33

what you know you've been putting

32:36

John in our what's that group

32:38

like what questions would you ask

32:40

you know the questions that you

32:42

want to ask you know John

32:44

Lukanani does not have the answers

32:47

to I think you're I think

32:49

Kieran's absolutely right it was a

32:51

it's a response in a way

32:53

to give the supporters something yeah

32:56

which We don't, you know, we,

32:58

sports don't have a God-given right

33:00

to know everything that is happening behind

33:02

the scenes at the football club. It's

33:04

just, it doesn't work like that. But

33:07

I think, obviously these are different and

33:09

difficult times at Watford when we're all

33:11

scratching our heads a little bit and

33:13

looking to somehow make some sense of

33:15

what's going on and spoke earlier about

33:17

the state of the squad and we're

33:19

all trying to work out what, how

33:22

can it get like that? It would,

33:24

in an ideal world, it would make

33:26

sense that the technical director or the

33:28

guy that's head of player recruitment, Jan

33:30

Lukanani, is the guy that's put up

33:32

and then he can tell you, this

33:35

is the plan, this is why we've

33:37

struggled so far in this window, this

33:39

is what we can potentially look forward

33:41

to, I can tell you that this

33:44

won't happen because of history. But reading

33:46

through the interview... He just wasn't able

33:48

to do that. It sounds like... You

33:50

say he should be the man in

33:52

charge, but we all know he's not.

33:55

But obviously he's operating in an incredibly

33:57

difficult environment for whatever reason. But I

33:59

think... Reading the responses to

34:01

the interview, people had more

34:04

questions than answers after it.

34:06

So in answer to your

34:08

question that you were rightly

34:10

putting to our cons expert

34:13

here in Kieran, right idea,

34:15

but the execution was never

34:17

going to be up to

34:20

muster because he... he's not

34:22

able to give any good

34:24

answers because as Kevin rightly

34:26

said there's nothing to talk

34:29

about there's no money there's nothing

34:31

happening. So here's a question if I

34:33

asked you if I was out let's

34:35

I'll take the role of Andrew Kanani

34:38

Michael if I asked you hey we

34:40

haven't had that many signings in this

34:42

transfer window there's only a few days

34:44

left what what's going on? Yeah well

34:46

he said, he said, Mike, what would

34:49

he say? He said that when, what

34:51

would he say, okay what would you

34:53

want him to say? What would be

34:55

beneficial? I'd want him to be honest.

34:58

and not tap dance around it. I

35:00

mean, every person in his situation is

35:02

going to say the same thing, which

35:04

is the following. We're exploring every viable

35:06

opportunity to give our head coach every

35:08

chance of success on the football pitch.

35:10

We all want the same thing. We're

35:12

all working hard in an incredibly hard

35:14

market. The January transfer window is very

35:16

difficult to operate in, especially if at

35:19

the areas we need a striker. It's

35:21

historically hard to begin a strike. We

35:23

know that's what he's going to say,

35:25

but he came up miles short of

35:27

that. And I just think overall now,

35:29

we've had enough of the bluster,

35:31

ultimately we've had enough of people

35:33

pretending that everything's all right, when

35:36

it's so demonstrably isn't. We can

35:38

talk about the finances, we can

35:40

talk about the culture, you can

35:42

talk about all those little offshoots

35:44

of things that don't seem to

35:46

be going right at what for

35:48

football club. One thing that everyone

35:50

can see... is at 745 on

35:52

a Tuesday or 3 o'clock on

35:55

a Saturday or 12 bloody 30

35:57

on a Saturday a team is

35:59

put out. 11 players are put

36:01

out and that's what everyone can

36:03

look at and that's what everyone

36:05

will judge and that tells the

36:07

team that was put out today

36:09

the squad that is available to

36:12

Tom tells the entire story and

36:14

there is a multitude of reasons

36:16

surrounding that but if you look

36:18

at the 11 look at the squad

36:20

it's miles off it absolutely, absolutely

36:22

miles off it so there's nothing

36:24

Narni can say. Do you want to

36:26

be honest? And saying, look guys,

36:28

very much money around. What do

36:30

you think I'm going to do?

36:32

Spend money here and got? I can't

36:35

go buy a new television. HD and

36:37

all the rest of it. If there's

36:39

no money, can I? Well, you do

36:42

well to find a TV that's not

36:44

HD thing. All the mod cons. But

36:46

you mean, you would want, that's what

36:49

we're after. But this is, it does

36:51

lead though, Mike, Mike, from what we

36:53

talked about rather than last weekend podcast.

36:56

We can pop off. We're talking about

36:58

Geno. What wasn't a problem for the

37:00

first half of the season has really

37:03

quickly become a problem with football fans.

37:05

No one was berating Geno or shouting

37:07

get out of my club in

37:09

October. They are now, but the

37:11

fact that, well, a week on

37:14

from that podcast, where's your head

37:16

out? Still the same, concerned about

37:18

the the overall direction of travel.

37:20

So this season is... is stuttering

37:22

to her to her as look

37:24

as we all thought it probably

37:26

would we've spoke at the start

37:28

of the season state of the

37:30

address we knew that these these

37:33

issues happen as as is the

37:35

case with football fans and quite

37:37

rightly so if the team's doing well we

37:39

enjoy it you know we're not going

37:41

to be hung drawn and caught for taking

37:43

our eye off the ball and enjoying exciting

37:46

football and good wins. That's what we're supposed

37:48

to do as football support as we get

37:50

her enjoyment where we can. I don't think

37:52

this whole geno issue in the discontent has

37:55

ever gone away. It's always been bubbling away

37:57

under the surface. The squad has always been

37:59

thin. but it's really it's about how

38:01

do you move it forward and on

38:03

a very micro level I feel a

38:06

lot better having come to the pub

38:08

and you know everyone's sort of laughing

38:10

and joking is a bit gallows humor

38:12

but ultimately we're all mates together you

38:14

had a few beers and keep your

38:16

chin up it's like it's a game

38:19

ultimately we've lost a game it's been

38:21

alright as entertaining we move on so

38:23

on a micro level that's that has

38:25

to be the way forward you've got

38:27

to find your way to enjoy your

38:30

way to enjoy your football and we're

38:32

managing to do that to do that.

38:34

But overall, there are massive fundamental issues

38:36

with the football club that are gravely

38:38

concerning long term, short term, and medium

38:40

term. The question is, what do I

38:43

do about that as an individual? What

38:45

do we do about a podcast? What

38:47

do we do about a fan base?

38:49

And I think that's too difficult a

38:51

question. Because I don't think people really

38:53

understand it. I don't. I don't really

38:56

know why it's gone so badly wrong.

38:58

So I've got a guess. We've got

39:00

relegated out the problem. Yeah. Very

39:02

largely speaking, we can do

39:04

some broad brushstrokes. We've got

39:06

relegated out of the Premier

39:08

League. A recruitment since has

39:10

not been great. There's cultural

39:12

issues at the football club.

39:14

The turnover of head coaches

39:16

is far too big. There's

39:18

loads of, loads of stuff.

39:20

But, and this is... potentially

39:22

going to sound controversial. Geno

39:24

isn't cocking this up on

39:26

purpose, right? I genuinely don't

39:28

believe that he's doing it on

39:31

purpose. If he was going to sack

39:33

Tom last week, I think the reason

39:35

he would have done that is because

39:37

that's what he would have thinks is

39:39

going to get the best results. So

39:41

we're obviously diametrically opposed in that. We

39:43

thought that would be absolute, well, sorry

39:45

we, I thought that would have been

39:47

an absolutely unforgettable decision to sack Tom

39:49

for all the reasons we've spoken to

39:52

be the right decision. So I think

39:54

for us as a as a for

39:56

me personally for us as a podcast

39:58

for us as the entire of the

40:00

two of the fan base, it'd be

40:02

helpful to understand what the hell's got

40:04

on. How did we get here? Why

40:06

did we get here? What were the

40:08

mistakes? What were we learned from them?

40:10

What's the actual situation now? What is

40:13

the reality of it? Because it's not

40:15

good. And what's the plan to get

40:17

out of it? And I think if there's

40:19

some sort of... I asked the event, is

40:21

there any... internal reflector, are you looking at

40:23

yourselves for what's gone wrong? This is the

40:25

event that at the train ground where, only

40:27

the second time, second time out of 13

40:30

years of being the owner of Watford where

40:32

Gino spoke to a fan, yeah. Is there

40:34

any introspection on your part as to where

40:36

things have gone wrong? And the answer was

40:38

a fairly firm no. We feel like things

40:40

are moving in the right direction and right

40:43

up till this week with the Jean Lucca

40:45

interview that we've just spoke, Jean Luccanani interview,

40:47

the interview, this is a sort of desire

40:49

to cloak, you know, you know,

40:51

you know it's fine. it'll be

40:53

fine and that that really is

40:55

the it's the overarching sort of

40:57

message we think we've got it

41:00

and it'll be fine when we

41:02

can see we might be wrong

41:04

it might be fine but all

41:06

the all the indicators for us

41:08

of supporters are saying that it

41:10

is demonstrably not fine and so

41:12

we're panicking and they're going pshh

41:14

don't worry about it just and we

41:16

can't do that so my desire would

41:19

be that? Just, and I get as

41:21

a head of a business, if you're

41:23

Scott, if you're Gino, you've got to

41:25

come out and say, the thing's a

41:28

mess, we're fighting against a tide, we're

41:30

drowning, we're fighting a battle that we

41:32

can't win. That's tough to say, from

41:34

an ego point of view, from running

41:37

a business point of view, because it

41:39

probably puts you on a dodgy footing

41:41

with financial institutions and other clubs that

41:43

you're looking to do business with. So

41:46

I kind of get why they haven't

41:48

sort of come out and said this

41:50

is where we're at. But until we

41:52

hear that, until we get a full

41:55

understanding of what the actual reality is,

41:57

not what we're being forced to join

41:59

dots. and read between lines about.

42:01

Tell us. Tell us the realities.

42:03

And I think a lot of

42:05

the anger, frustration will remain, but

42:07

I think a lot of anger

42:10

might subside. And it might be

42:12

like, okay, well, finally, finally, we've

42:14

taken the plaster for we can

42:16

see what the damages. And we

42:18

can do something with that. We

42:20

can work together, or we can

42:22

say, look, you've caught this up

42:24

so badly, that you've got to

42:26

go. This is abhorrent what you've

42:28

done. and that may

42:31

well be the case but we're

42:33

blind and we're sort of what

42:35

can we do at this stage

42:37

without really understanding it and I

42:39

just I think it's I don't

42:42

I don't think I think being

42:44

lied to is tough is a

42:46

tough thing to say because I

42:48

don't think they want to I

42:50

think they think they're doing it

42:53

for the right reasons but the

42:55

reality that we're being sold or

42:57

that's being alluded to or being

42:59

hinted at doesn't match up to

43:02

what we're seeing. And while that

43:04

happens, that disconnects between fans and

43:06

the ownership and fans in the

43:08

hierarchy, it's just going to get

43:10

wider and wider and wider with

43:13

good reason. Because what we're told

43:15

is happening off the pits isn't

43:17

reflected on it. We are not

43:19

seeing a football club that is

43:22

working properly because... As I said,

43:24

745 on Tuesday, 3 o'clock on

43:26

Saturday, that's when everything's done, the

43:28

transfer dealings, the contracts, the culture,

43:31

who's in charge here, the training,

43:33

whatever, it all leads up to

43:35

that, 745 or 3 o'clock and

43:37

what we're seeing at the moment,

43:39

you can go to Hatney Marshes

43:42

tomorrow and you'll see teams better

43:44

prepared to win than that team

43:46

today, I'm afraid. The

44:05

sound there of a beautiful, beautiful

44:08

round of applause, Kieran. There are,

44:10

many players that moved on from

44:12

Watford, many, you've been glad they

44:15

moved on, many, many have moved

44:17

on to better things, not that

44:19

many, but a few have moved

44:22

on. It's been great watch them

44:24

as they moved on. Ken left

44:26

today, it was, I really loved

44:29

the fact that we got to

44:31

say goodbye. And there's always that

44:33

moment, like Yasser Sprier last year,

44:36

where it's the last game of the

44:38

season, we all knew it was going

44:40

to happen. He sort of lingered a

44:42

little bit, and clapped his hands a

44:44

little bit, but it was beautiful to

44:46

see Ken get his round of applause

44:49

and his reaction, and the video he

44:51

did in the week, to exiting Watford,

44:53

because he was a special person, and

44:55

special player, and I think. six and

44:57

a half seasons that he did with

44:59

us wasn't it and if you think

45:02

about the potsoes have owned the club

45:04

now for is it 13 years no

45:06

I would be interested to know how

45:08

many players during that era have done

45:10

more than six and a half seasons

45:12

because as we know the turnover of

45:14

head coaches is one thing the turnover

45:16

of players that we have as well

45:18

is quite significant and the fact

45:20

that he has been here for

45:22

that amount of time it came from

45:25

was it Osterlands in Sweden? I think

45:27

he played in Europe that season, he

45:29

played against Arsenal. He scored against Arsenal.

45:31

Yeah, that was what he said, he

45:33

said, he said that that's what you

45:35

knew years. I was the player who

45:37

scored against Arsenal. Yeah, and he was,

45:40

and that's exactly what, you know, when

45:42

we're trying to sort of find things

45:44

about some of the players that the

45:46

potsoes on earth or that they sign,

45:48

it's like, well what do we know

45:50

about them? He was the player that

45:52

scored against Arsenal, hard work and commitment.

45:55

and I think you would be really

45:57

hard pushed to find any of Ken's

45:59

games. where he is not giving absolutely everything

46:01

and he's been asked to play left for

46:03

the front free, he's been asked to play as

46:06

a wing back, he's played left back of a

46:08

four at times and I bet you he's the

46:10

sort of player that's like yeah that's fine just

46:12

put me wherever I could wherever you need

46:14

me and I will do a job for you.

46:16

So yeah I think the fact that they

46:19

specifically allowed that specifically kind of put on

46:21

the sort of appearance before the game started

46:23

for us to be able to say goodbye

46:25

shows how highly he's thought of because they

46:28

don't do that with every player. I mean

46:30

in the video, if he never done that

46:32

on the pitch today, the video they put

46:34

out for him to say I'm off, thanks

46:37

very much, goodbye, was just phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal.

46:39

Jason, he, I think, yeah, Kierin said

46:41

beauty there, you know that there, he

46:44

was a man, he was dependable, I

46:46

suppose, and there were... Many dependable plays

46:48

we've had over the years, but not

46:50

so many recently. What was it for

46:53

you? What was your favourite thing about

46:55

Ken? My favourite thing was the the

46:57

way he used to beat fullbacks and

47:00

you say, okay, we got a winging

47:02

that can meet fullbacks. Most people expect

47:04

little shuffle, you know, shimmy, bit of

47:06

pace, maybe. No, with Ken. It was

47:09

the way he used his bonk just

47:11

to... roll around full, but it was

47:13

brilliant. I used to love that. It

47:16

was great every time. It was almost

47:18

like the fallbacks weren't expecting it. It's

47:20

just great. I remember I was being

47:22

in a pre-season game when he'd signed,

47:25

the summer he'd signed, it was me

47:27

or you, I think it was Jordi,

47:29

it's my new favorite, what-for-play. And he

47:31

was, and he did go away for

47:33

a little bit, but he came back, but

47:35

just on that list of, I just love

47:37

him. I think we christened him when

47:40

he joined Kinsimer. didn't we? Yes and

47:42

I don't we talk about that sort

47:44

of using his his profile to roll

47:46

around fallbacks but he was capable of

47:48

brilliant things as well the goal of

47:50

Bournemouth I think was probably the one

47:52

that stands out for me was it

47:54

a volume half body we just smashed

47:56

it in from 18 yards so he

47:58

certainly had it in him and it's

48:00

a shame to see him go, it probably

48:03

is the right time, he's not getting in

48:05

the team. It feels like perhaps we could

48:07

use him now. Well there was a line,

48:09

I think DCW on the group he did

48:12

say, when we saw the line we go,

48:14

this is the game where we can do

48:16

with Ken Summer? Yeah, but if he's not

48:18

being used, he's not playing and it seems

48:21

fair to let him and continue his career

48:23

and I hope he's going to. Yeah, absolutely.

48:25

And I think his strength of character is

48:28

something that I genuinely admired with Ken. I

48:30

think he got, well, worldwide praise when

48:32

he did that post-match interview and it

48:34

became apparent to everyone that he suffers

48:36

with a... with a stammer of the

48:39

stuff I'm not sure what the correct

48:41

terminology is you know you know exactly

48:43

what I mean and I just think

48:45

the fact that he obviously wanted to

48:47

do that and it'd be easy to

48:50

say to your media manager your media

48:52

officer I don't I can't do these

48:54

because of this reason and he absolutely

48:56

fronted up and what what you get

48:58

from that is it's good for the

49:01

club it's good for the player

49:03

but I think it's important to

49:05

highlight just what that could mean

49:07

for people when people are willing

49:09

to show that they've got this

49:11

disability or issue that they're fighting

49:13

against that people didn't know about.

49:15

So for example my nephew suffers

49:18

with he has something called selective

49:20

mutism. So he finds it very

49:22

very difficult to use his voice

49:24

in certain situations and he's working

49:26

through that and he's doing a

49:28

great job. Charlie we're all very

49:30

proud of you, you're a little legend.

49:33

but there will have been people in

49:35

a couple of weeks ago in the

49:37

pocket indeed indeed but there will be

49:39

people with similar issues stamens or

49:41

stutters who will have seen Ken

49:43

and thought oh wow there's there's

49:45

someone like me who is achieving

49:47

and doing it and doing it

49:49

in front of a watching audience

49:51

of almost 10 to 20 people

49:53

on the Watford YouTube standard but

49:55

I'm you know it's picked up

49:57

by Sky Sky Sky and it's

50:00

That means something and that is important

50:02

and I suspect that Ken understands the

50:04

weight of his actions there. He's not

50:06

doing it for a pat on the

50:08

back. I think he's doing it because

50:10

he wants to and I think that

50:12

is a real mark and a measure

50:15

of the man. I think Kieran and

50:17

Jason have summed up perfectly why he

50:19

was such a crowd favourite and someone

50:21

that was sad to see the back

50:23

of him. Really really sad to see

50:25

him go just his demeanor. His smile,

50:27

just his... We supposed to enjoy watching

50:30

football as supporters. I know it's a job,

50:32

but it's a pretty decent job and you

50:34

need to look like you're enjoying it. And

50:36

I think Ken enjoyed his football and I

50:38

certainly enjoyed him being a Watford player for

50:41

those six and a half years. I went

50:43

to see Paphos actually at the start of

50:45

the season and I reckon he'll have some

50:47

fun over there. Hopefully get a bit more

50:49

European action there in the, I think they're

50:51

headed into the playoffs of the Europe Conference

50:54

Conference League. yeah for conference league so fingers

50:56

crossed he goes on to yeah to enjoy

50:58

some time in the in the sunshine at

51:00

pathos but yeah I'm just a privilege

51:03

to have watched him play love

51:05

him and yeah wish him nothing that

51:07

nothing but the best yeah and

51:09

it was I don't know why if

51:11

you listen the people of the podcast

51:14

since we started the first season but

51:16

you would have remembered you might remember

51:18

painfully you might remember passionately we used

51:21

to lots of songs And we haven't

51:23

done one for many many years,

51:25

but with Ken leaving, it just felt

51:27

we wanted to do something extra

51:29

for him, as we've sort

51:31

of already said how great

51:34

he was. So this

51:36

is our song for

51:38

Ken. It never seemed

51:40

to matter what you

51:42

did. Can we still

51:44

love you? We admired

51:46

the way you tried.

51:48

Oh wow, defenders never

51:51

could explain. Left on

51:53

the us again. Even

51:55

when played on the

51:57

right, you played with

51:59

all. All your home

52:01

I, your king can,

52:04

number 12, not number

52:06

10. It was your

52:09

destiny to represent the

52:11

horns with pride and

52:14

dignity. Your king came,

52:16

bursting down the wing

52:18

again. What will it

52:21

take for us to

52:23

see someone as good

52:26

as you let us

52:28

The fans always been there

52:31

for me since they won.

52:33

I've experienced so much joy,

52:35

so much love from the

52:37

fans. The great times, the

52:39

tough times. They've always been

52:41

on my side and I'm

52:43

grateful for everything you've done

52:45

for me. Without you, it's

52:47

not a club. So for

52:49

fans, thank you. Thank you

52:51

for everything. And I

52:53

always remember. Thank

52:59

you, Jason. Thank you. Thank you,

53:01

Kieran. Thank you. And thank you,

53:03

Michael. Cheers all. Thanks for sticking

53:05

with me. But most of all,

53:08

thank you so much to Ken

53:10

Semer. And come on you all!