0:00

Hello

0:02

and

0:04

welcome

0:07

to

0:09

film

0:11

the

0:13

Rooker

0:15

End.

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It

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was

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a

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sunny

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day. and I think Richard I sit next

0:28

to, he says to me, he says to

0:30

me, he says, it's a lovely day to

0:32

watch a game of football. And for a

0:34

while there it was. Well, I ended up

0:37

losing, there's two, one here at Vekid

0:39

Road, to Mill Wall. My name is John

0:41

with me today, outside the Hornet shop.

0:43

It is Jordi. Hello, we're going to

0:45

do our very best to make sure

0:47

the second half of this podium. When

0:49

we're doing a podcast we're lucky enough

0:51

to meet a lot of people. One

0:53

of whom is Emma, Emma Saunders, lucky

0:55

enough to call her a mate. Emma's

0:57

had a really rough time with it

0:59

recently. She's been pretty poorly. So just

1:01

wanted to say hello to Emma and

1:03

get well soon. Obviously one of our

1:05

own big Watford sport or everyone that's

1:08

been to Vicky Road will know who Emma is.

1:10

So best wishes to you Emma, get well

1:12

soon and I think it's a reminder that

1:14

football is... of the least important things, it

1:16

is the most important, but in the

1:18

grand scheme of things, it's much more

1:21

important things than football matches and results.

1:23

So, yeah, get well soon. Yeah, get

1:25

well soon, and I think they'll dedicate

1:27

the first half of the football team

1:29

ever. Not the second. And Jason. Good

1:32

afternoon! Yeah, it is still the only

1:34

time. It's on the evening, yeah, because

1:36

there's an early kickoff. Where do we

1:38

start, Michael? Sunset on Watford's bloody play

1:40

off campaign, then. Oh, I don't think

1:42

we can say that one quite yet,

1:45

but we're not going to, we're just

1:47

going to say, Mike just said, playoff

1:49

campaign, that's the most positive thing

1:52

I've heard you say, oh yeah.

1:54

And that's like the Luton. I think

1:56

so. I mean, at half time, I

1:58

don't think Roffa could have been any

2:00

more dominant. What they held onto the

2:03

ball, they absolutely bossed the game, all

2:05

that from 1 to 11 looking comfortable

2:07

on the ball, looking, playing in Tom

2:09

cleverly's image, got them the way he

2:12

wants to, popping the ball around, and

2:14

just looking confident and in a decent

2:16

shape, looking to forge those some, those

2:19

rare chances, because we're having to play

2:21

in a particular way because Bio is

2:23

no striker and Dumbria is a striker

2:25

who's learning. on the job, I think he

2:28

had a hard way today. Had an

2:30

absolute torrid afternoon against Cooper, the middle

2:32

captain who absolutely pocketed him throughout, I

2:34

thought he was monumental and showed the

2:36

difference, showed where you need to be

2:39

at a championship level striker. Watford couldn't

2:41

have been more dominant at half time.

2:43

It was almost training exercise-esque at times

2:45

and it was similar in the in

2:48

the loot and game and even to

2:50

a degree the Stoke game. Watford kept

2:52

the ball, made all the running, made

2:54

the opposition do all the chasing and

2:56

all the hard work, went in

2:58

one-nill-up really nice goal from a

3:01

corner right from Mattie Pollock to

3:03

get his goal stooped to to

3:05

head in lovely goal and it

3:07

all was going absolutely, absolutely swimmingly

3:09

swimmingly. But the last time we were here, it

3:11

was a similar story at half-time. It felt

3:13

like against loot and it was for all

3:15

the work going to be another three, four

3:17

mil, even more, such was the golfing class.

3:19

I don't think the golfing class was as

3:21

big today. Watford was significantly for better team.

3:23

If someone gave you 20 quid of someone

3:25

else's money to back the winner, there's no

3:27

chance on earth anyone in that stadium really is

3:29

began to back mill worn. And then they came

3:32

out in the second and the second half and

3:34

what are my question to you guys' you guys is.

3:36

My question to you guys is. better readers of

3:38

the game than I, was it a uptick

3:40

from Millwall in the second

3:42

half or were Watford trying to have what

3:45

they hold? I mean for me it

3:47

just felt like they came out feeling

3:49

like I felt, which was like this

3:51

game was probably won it for

3:53

Carry On, they couldn't click into

3:55

gear and it was it was

3:58

downhill really almost from from... a kickoff

4:00

in the second half. Well, that's the

4:02

problem. It wasn't, was it? We were

4:04

playing uphill. And I know, can be

4:06

a bit flippant and say, we can

4:08

only play downhill. The number of times

4:11

we've said we've struggled in the first

4:13

half and been back to second half,

4:15

obviously flip the other way around. I

4:17

made that flippant comment. It's actually, Arlo,

4:19

actually said it does make a

4:21

difference to the atmosphere. And that

4:23

could be a big part of

4:25

it. I think he's made an

4:28

excellent point. didn't press with any

4:30

effectiveness. Some would go, some wouldn't, allowed

4:32

us to sort of pass the ball

4:34

around nicely. I mean, fielders were finding

4:36

loads of space. And a meal when they

4:38

did have the ball didn't really seem to

4:40

know what to do with it. They looked

4:43

like they had a couple of promising

4:45

positions. And again, even when we did

4:47

make mistakes trying to pass the ball

4:49

around at the back, they could and

4:51

should have taken the lead. Because they

4:53

didn't seem to know what to do

4:56

with it. The second half was a

4:58

lot of different. They came out, they

5:00

were pressing, it seemed much higher,

5:02

causing us to make mistakes, which

5:04

we did very quickly, very early

5:06

on. We looked nervous then because

5:08

of that. Again, only holding a

5:11

one-go lead. And that probably plays

5:13

in the heads the fact that we

5:15

know we haven't got a striker. I'm

5:17

sure that the players are aware of the

5:19

abilities of the players we have got playing

5:21

up front and perhaps they are feeling a

5:23

bit nervous. I think we're going to need

5:25

more than one goal and we had chances

5:27

to get more than one goal in the

5:29

first half and we didn't. So yeah, they

5:31

probably feel a bit nervous. Tom Delhi Beshira

5:33

in particular, I really struggled that half. I'm

5:35

surprised he stayed on the pitch when the

5:37

substitutions were made because he just the game

5:39

at time seemed to pass him by or

5:41

he was just a bit slow. yeah touch

5:43

was bad passing was bad yeah that one

5:45

that went under his foot and and it's

5:47

kind of sort of then sort of almost

5:49

spread to the banker as well it's probably

5:52

the worst you're nervous I've seen him play

5:54

he then sort of yeah sort of making

5:56

mistakes and not been able to play the

5:58

ball out properly and it all just got

6:00

a bit messy and I keep saying nervous

6:02

and that's what led to Mulele running confidence

6:04

and getting the two goals the girls they

6:06

scored were pretty basic a couple of crosses

6:08

in three men in the box put it

6:10

in yeah you know there's a first off I

6:12

was looking at thinking you know what this

6:15

just looks like a bunch of footballers who

6:17

played consistently with each other a good couple

6:19

of weeks they know each other they're running

6:21

for each other but they're also running the

6:23

right directions and all the right parts all

6:26

that sort of stuff so I want to go to go

6:28

to first LOSA was absolutely majestic, but

6:30

playing in that sweeper role, which

6:32

they did in the second half.

6:34

What was it, do you think,

6:36

that really makes that first half

6:39

click? Well, in a way, you

6:41

answer that question by asking, stop

6:43

the second half clicking, and they

6:45

said, we started, our initial tactic,

6:47

our game plan, was better than

6:49

Mills. But Charles Darwin pointed

6:52

out a long time ago, it's

6:54

the survivor, the most adaptable, that's

6:56

the one that is that winning.

6:58

and during the game, and particularly

7:01

half-time, Millwell adapted. And

7:03

we didn't adapt to their adaptations,

7:05

which meant that they ended up

7:07

on top and they ended up

7:09

dominating it. And had that game gone

7:11

on, it would probably have been 3-1

7:13

before it was 2-2. So I think what, the

7:15

reason we did well in the first

7:17

half is because the two game plans, ours

7:20

was better and we executed

7:22

it better. The problem is our

7:24

domination comes through quite a

7:26

formulaic approach. We do need to work with

7:28

the boys. Centre for did in inverted commerce. Well,

7:30

just generally at the club, you know, we don't

7:33

have a Marlon King, we don't have a Danney

7:35

Graham, we don't have a line leader at this

7:37

level. Both of whom we'll take instead of vacuum

7:39

via. Hundreds gave a vacuum via, hundreds of game,

7:41

hundreds gave. Luser was fundamental. There's a lot of

7:44

times where you'd see Larusi get it, and someone

7:46

make a run for him forward, maybe he's doing

7:48

beer, maybe doing beer, maybe, or maybe, or maybe,

7:50

or something like, or something like, or maybe, or

7:52

something like, or something like, or something like, or

7:54

something like the way we play. That's great and

7:56

for 45 minutes it goes for 1 million leagues

7:59

but what it did is it says he showed how

8:01

he wanted to play to Millwall. So

8:03

they then had to say, right, what

8:05

are we going to do at half-time?

8:07

How do I get into this team? How am

8:09

I going to reshape it? What am I

8:11

going to do to stop loser dictating

8:13

the game? And loser was

8:15

pretty anonymous in the second

8:18

half. Sack matadzi, also incredibly

8:20

anonymous, anonymous. So we call

8:22

out Delhi Bashir, and I mentioned

8:24

it on a pot a few weeks ago, and

8:27

he's good at it. Delhi Bashiru isn't

8:29

in round loser. So, you know, when

8:31

Pepp started with his kind of

8:33

high press, you know, Barcelona, they

8:35

would say it's, the team would do

8:37

it like a pack of wolves and

8:40

they'd have a trigger. That defender, no,

8:42

that defender is the weak, a pack

8:44

of wolves and they'd have a trigger.

8:47

There would know, that defender is the

8:49

weak, that's the ball back high. And

8:51

I think teams look at us and

8:53

say, okay, okay, look at us and say,

8:56

you've been the ball back, okay, are

8:58

other midfielders who don't have that

9:00

skill. So it makes them look

9:02

bad, but they're the ones that

9:04

are being, I think, identified by

9:06

opposition teams. And what we're not doing

9:08

is, as a team, protecting those

9:10

players that are more vulnerable and

9:12

giving them options. Because if loser

9:14

gets it, he can control it,

9:16

look up, and if there's no

9:18

option, it's okay. But deli beshiro,

9:20

he's probably got two players running

9:23

at him in the middle of

9:25

the fifth, probably, and I think it's...

9:27

As a team we need to kind of,

9:29

okay when it goes our way, we've

9:31

got plan A, you know, weight was

9:33

going on the first half, brilliant, but

9:35

when it doesn't, we could see,

9:37

you know, the fans and the

9:40

rookery were getting restless with these

9:42

gold kicks and we were taking,

9:44

it was like we weren't

9:46

trying anything new and all was happening

9:48

with Selvik was booting up

9:50

in the air until they're

9:52

sending them one for one. Take

9:54

the wrist, they're losing. If they go to or down,

9:57

it's as good as going on down. So they had

9:59

nothing to lose. and then obviously the

10:01

second goal came because they had

10:03

the car up with them. So

10:05

I think, going back to your

10:07

question, the first half was simply

10:09

that we were able to do what

10:11

we wanted. Mill weren't countering it.

10:14

As soon as they did, we

10:16

didn't have an answer. Second time

10:18

we quoted your son on this

10:20

podcast, Michael. I said, well, I said,

10:22

well, I said, well, I said, well, I said,

10:24

well, I said, well, I said, I

10:26

said, I'm going to say something different,

10:28

I think. a head half time. So either

10:30

a different sort of team talk and

10:32

it sort of feels like that might

10:34

have been an issue. Yeah, I mean,

10:37

obviously you have to look to the

10:39

head coach. I spoke about how Watford

10:41

played well in the first half of

10:43

what we're playing in Tom Cleveley's image.

10:46

That's credit to Tom and that's credit

10:48

to the players who have executed in

10:50

the second half. Whatever they were asked

10:52

to do, they weren't able to. Was

10:55

Tom able to adapt to adapt? Well,

10:57

no. And I think what it does

10:59

show is the fragility of the squad.

11:01

I mean, he tried to... So Doomier

11:03

came off with what looked like a

11:05

bad injury. Lee was sort of looked...

11:07

Very upset. Yeah, he looked upset. So

11:10

that was after 50, 10 minutes in

11:12

the second half. So that probably wasn't

11:14

what we wanted. We didn't want

11:16

bio one for sort of... Stockton's there.

11:18

Yeah. For 35, 40 minutes. That wouldn't...

11:20

That wasn't never going to be... the

11:23

plan and then on 70 minutes it

11:25

was in Gakia La Roosie and K&B

11:27

came off around who's Wiley and Vata

11:29

and I think probably people would have

11:32

been excited to see Vata come on

11:34

and perhaps Wiley and see what he

11:36

can do in that left left wing

11:38

back position. Nothing happened down that side

11:40

at all in the second half. So

11:43

in terms of the substitutions I don't

11:45

really think you had much else to

11:47

go out. There was early disruption

11:49

with the bio substitution and let's

11:51

just hope. against hope that that

11:54

dimpier injury isn't as serious as

11:56

it as his body language would

11:58

suggest. I don't even

12:00

want to think about the next

12:03

games with 19 up front. I

12:05

want 19 people up front, but

12:07

no 19 under 9s I don't

12:09

have up front. So Tom will

12:12

take the criticism for that performance.

12:14

A little bit disappointed with the

12:16

level of sort of the sort

12:18

of levels of frustration amongst the

12:20

crowd that we saw sometimes about

12:23

getting it forward. I kind of

12:25

get that. You want to see

12:27

shots on goals, you want to

12:29

see, you want to see attacking,

12:32

fluid attacking movements, you want to

12:34

see the ball down there in.

12:36

Basically, we've already mentioned him, the

12:38

captain Jake Cooper, gobbled absolutely everything

12:41

up. So if you send something

12:43

forward to a final third that

12:45

is populated by what we populate

12:47

the final third with against a

12:50

centre back like that. I

12:52

don't know, I just found... I'd much

12:54

rather... If they can play like they're

12:56

playing in the first half, keeping the

12:58

ball is good. The opposition can't do

13:00

anything when you've got the ball. It

13:02

tires them out, it frustrates them, you

13:04

have the opportunity to hit on the

13:06

break, in the first half, the right

13:08

side in particular, there was acres of

13:10

space, and we earned that by keeping

13:12

the ball, playing those patterns, players executing

13:14

it as they were asked to do.

13:16

And just it didn't happen in the

13:18

second half in the second half, okay.

13:21

Tom will take ultimately will carry the

13:23

camp for it because he's the head

13:25

coach he sends them out like you

13:27

say talks to them at a half

13:29

time I just wonder what he could

13:31

have done differently in terms of in

13:33

terms of in terms of set up

13:35

it's it's difficult because we've said it

13:37

all year the squad is massively thin

13:39

We are punching miles above our weight

13:41

in terms of where we are in

13:43

the division. The fact that before today

13:45

we were talking about if we can

13:47

win these next three, we really are

13:49

in a chance of sneaking into the

13:51

playoffs. The fact that that is even

13:53

a remote possibility with the squad we've

13:55

got, with the strikers we've got, is

13:57

ludicrous. It's almost implausible. Tom has worked

13:59

wonders I think to get as to

14:01

where we are, but wasn't able to

14:04

adjust against, I'm really sorry, Millball was

14:06

crap. There's no, there's no, there's no

14:08

two ways about it. They didn't really

14:10

offer anything apart from what we know

14:12

they're going to offer, set peace threats,

14:14

sling the ball into the boxing school,

14:16

and they did it twice, and we

14:18

often have this trouble against teams, no

14:20

discredit to when I say teams like

14:22

me and well, but we do come

14:24

unstuck here against. against teams like that.

14:26

We have done this season and we

14:28

have done historically as well and that's

14:30

disappointing. And it wasn't as if they

14:32

were direct and physical. They weren't beating

14:34

people up and treading toes and winding

14:36

anyone up because they didn't have to.

14:38

And I think that's what's really disappointing

14:40

about that second half and I'm sure

14:42

we'll disappoint the players. The nature of

14:45

that slide towards what was in... it

14:47

looked like inevitable defeat after a couple

14:49

of minutes in. They weren't able to

14:51

arrest it. and it's a real shame.

14:53

Our key players, our difference makers weren't

14:55

able to impact the game in the

14:57

second half and talking about Tom Delhi

14:59

is fine, he had a stinker. He'll

15:01

be the first to admit it. They've

15:03

all got to watch the tape on

15:05

Monday morning and he'll go, but he

15:07

didn't do it on purpose. No. He

15:09

just had a bad one. And what

15:11

needs to happen when that happens is

15:13

everyone else needs to step up as

15:15

Jordi was saying. And largely, over the

15:17

course of the season, they have actually

15:19

done that. They've had crap runs where

15:21

things have been a bit naph, but

15:23

largely they've all managed to stand in

15:26

for each other and to pick each

15:28

other up. I thought that it had

15:30

just deeply, deeply disappointing the second half.

15:32

There's no way that you should be

15:34

losing that comfortably because it was a

15:36

comfortable defeat. Jordan is right. They nearly

15:38

scored to make it three one at

15:40

the end and the next goal scorer

15:42

was going to be mule. There's no

15:44

way that after that after that first

15:46

half performance you should be ushering the

15:48

opposition towards... three points in in that

15:50

sort of way really really disappointing against

15:52

a just a bang average side. I

15:54

think what Mike says actually bang on

15:56

but when we look at the the

15:58

XG for today, because I looked at

16:00

it and obviously it's a stat that

16:02

people were talking about, ours is 1.5,

16:04

theirs is 0.68, so we're saying that

16:07

they had the momentum and even I

16:09

said earlier, but across the game, obviously

16:11

Pollock was scored from about a yard

16:13

hours, that's probably quite high. But then...

16:15

Mike saying how bad Mill War and

16:17

we should be beating teams. We were

16:19

a point above them and if there

16:21

wasn't for Jimmy Hill, we'd be a

16:23

point behind them. Except for their performance

16:25

today. They just didn't offer anything. I

16:27

agree, but we were so far ahead

16:29

a half time. The referendum, if it

16:31

was a boxing match, that was over

16:33

a half time. The same as the

16:35

Luton game. The referendum stopped it. Waived

16:37

it off. Well then, let's say, two

16:39

games where we've done one in the

16:41

first half, not done so well in

16:43

the second half, one of them we

16:45

won, one of them we lost, would

16:47

we change the order? Absolutely not. We've

16:50

had a lot of clean sheets recently,

16:52

Jason. Of course, not one today. Defensively,

16:54

I don't know, it's the first time,

16:56

we've had a good couple of games

16:58

and lots of new plays, they've had

17:00

a lot of positivity around it with

17:02

a bankruptra and Selvik. I

17:04

have a little weird thing in me

17:06

that says, oh, that's actually, that's a

17:08

good thing that they've got a learning

17:10

opportunity. I've got games coming up and

17:13

they're thick and fast and they always

17:15

are the championship. But generally they weren't

17:17

horrendous, were they? They were, well, they

17:19

got caught out a little bit here

17:21

there. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of a

17:23

defensive unit. They did all right. It

17:26

wasn't like Selvik was having loads of

17:28

saves to make. It wasn't like we

17:30

were getting run ragged. We were getting

17:32

like we were getting run ragged. The

17:34

first one in Gaggy got beat by

17:36

skill down down his side. Cross comes

17:39

into a player who's free in the

17:41

box and yeah, all he's got to

17:43

do is tap it into the far

17:45

corner. And the second one, I think

17:47

the guy was unmarked against him, giving

17:50

a lot of space down the other

17:52

side. Good cross in. Striker, a striker.

17:54

Has gone the end of it with

17:56

his head in acres of space. And

17:58

yeah, and that's what's so disappointing. So

18:00

yes, we have we have probably defended

18:03

pretty well. So talking about when we've

18:05

not got the ball, we've talked about

18:07

how bad we were with the ball

18:09

in those areas in the second half.

18:11

Without the ball, it looked all right.

18:13

But you can't give players that much

18:16

space in the box. So just to

18:18

switch off for that moment, yeah, not

18:20

great. There's one open can of Guinness.

18:22

Yeah. Cleaving drug. And there's one that

18:24

is not open. Very tempted to reach

18:26

for the, reach for the, for the

18:29

second. Yeah, I mean, look, I was

18:31

talking at half time to a friend

18:33

and we were saying how nice it

18:35

was that the defense, they gave away

18:37

that chance because they got, they got

18:39

it all muddled up and it was

18:42

a bad, bad class out and I

18:44

think Selvik did something similar in the

18:46

second of half as well. That is

18:48

going to happen. It just happens when

18:50

you play that style of football. Every

18:53

single pass can't be perfect and when

18:55

it isn't, in that situation, you can

18:57

give away chances and they could, Millwall

18:59

in fairness, could have been one nil

19:01

up. I said should have, you correct,

19:03

yeah, correct. We made necks of what's

19:06

so good, he said that we should

19:08

be, it should be nil one, I

19:10

said it could be nil one, I

19:12

said it could be nil one, we

19:14

were playing... we gave up that mistake

19:16

and I didn't necessarily mind it because

19:19

that's the way we play and overall

19:21

we've looked pretty solid and that's the

19:23

way we play and yada yada yada

19:25

but it's I don't know in the

19:27

second in the second half like Jason

19:29

said we just weren't able we just

19:32

got overrun and it's sort of the

19:34

whole thing just just collapsed it's and

19:36

I just As we talk about it,

19:38

all I can keep thinking is it's

19:40

just the fine margins with this side.

19:43

And it's going to be that situation.

19:45

It is the archetyacle. You win some,

19:47

you draw some, you lose some. Because

19:49

that's the nature of this side. So

19:51

many of our games. I think Tom

19:53

said it in midweek in his press

19:56

conference. We've been saying it all week,

19:58

even on all year. year, even on

20:00

our good run, the results were almost

20:02

the toss for coin. There were very,

20:04

very slight winds, a tiny little bit of

20:06

luck here or a bit of skill or

20:09

a bit of quality, one way or the

20:11

other, was giving us our winds. And it's

20:13

kind of, we're still there. That's still where

20:15

we are. We're not dominating teams in terms

20:17

of threat. We're dominating certainly more these

20:20

days in terms of possession, but I

20:22

just aren't able to do anything with it.

20:24

And it is going to be... width of a

20:26

fag paper, which way these games go. But I

20:28

think overall, I went to Stoke at the weekend

20:30

and we looked really solid defensively and

20:32

we looked pretty solid against, in the

20:35

game before that, against Lew and in

20:37

the game before that, and in the

20:39

game before that. So the defence is definitely

20:41

in the situation. My point about what I

20:43

was saying at half-time was, you don't have

20:45

to worry about anymore. And yes, we gave

20:47

that chance away, which I spoke about, but

20:49

that will happen and I don't mind it

20:51

because it because it's... It's coming from

20:53

every defensive unit makes mistakes.

20:56

So overall, it would be

20:58

interesting to see what we look like if

21:00

Kevin and the banquet do get

21:02

a run in together because he does

21:04

feel like he's that sort of, we've

21:07

only seen a little bit of him

21:09

and Jordan rightly said it's, we

21:11

can't get too excited about him when we

21:13

spoke last week, but I'd be interested to

21:15

see a banker and Kevin over a lengthy

21:18

period. a podcast about life following Watford FC.

21:20

Before the game started we had a lovely

21:22

minutes of applause for two for Watford players,

21:24

one of them being Dennis Bond, and for

21:27

me all those players who I've heard of,

21:29

I know about, well no I don't know

21:31

about I suppose, that's a problem. And it's

21:33

really wanting to, when you see all this

21:36

stuff that's coming out, we want to

21:38

speak to somebody who saw him play, who

21:40

knows a bit more about Watford at that

21:42

point. So he got touched with our friends

21:45

at Watford Treasure, he spoke to David Hausen,

21:47

and he, I spoke to him yesterday about

21:49

Dennis, and this is what he told us

21:51

about Dennis and his time when he was

21:54

Watford player. He was a very gifted midfielder

21:56

who was probably the wrong loke at the

21:58

wrong time, I think, in... terms of

22:00

what was going on at

22:02

Watford. He came in in

22:05

64-5. 63-4 had been an

22:07

excellent season with Charlie Livesey

22:09

as the main man up

22:11

front and Bill McGarry as

22:13

the manager, but he left

22:15

in the summer of 6-2-3-4

22:17

after he just missed out

22:19

one promotion. Dennis Bond signed

22:21

professionally in I think March 64,

22:24

and McGarry was still manager at

22:26

that point. but he left about

22:28

three months later at which point

22:30

the club went into something of

22:32

a decline they had some poor

22:35

players and it was all a

22:37

bit chaotic really he was sort

22:39

of a very talented very

22:41

skill feel very small midfielder

22:43

i think i looked it out i think

22:45

he was five foot seven or something

22:47

and that's in a division three

22:49

that was full of hulking great

22:51

blokes he was very much out

22:53

of his place really out of

22:55

his comfort zone. In the three

22:57

years that he played he played

22:59

I think about 90 times something

23:01

like that and scored 16 or

23:04

17 goals so he was contributing

23:06

straight away and he was a

23:08

very very good player. We saw

23:10

the academy the other day when

23:12

we did our podcast about it

23:14

that Dennis his name is on

23:16

the wall. He was a young player

23:18

came through the Watford juniors. Was that

23:20

a factory thing when he first broke

23:23

through? I was only 14 or 13

23:25

or something at my time so the

23:27

extreme youth of various players didn't really

23:29

strike me as anything. He had a

23:32

faint whiff of Tottenham about him right

23:34

right from the start. He came from

23:36

Eastland, he come from Ortham Star, I

23:39

think got somewhere like that. He was

23:41

very much over that way and he'd

23:43

been introduced to Watford. I think

23:45

by Tommy Hammer, who had played

23:47

as an inside forward for the

23:49

club, having previously been at Stockholm,

23:52

and I think Ron Burgess, who

23:54

was the previous manager, had also

23:56

been involved in attracting Denet to

23:58

the club. He looked very... I must

24:00

say, I think, partly because he

24:02

was small. His youth didn't really

24:04

strike me, mostly because he was

24:06

such a good player. He had

24:08

time on the board. He could

24:10

see a pass, which is not

24:12

a universal attribute, as you know,

24:14

and he could thread a pass

24:17

through to whoever was playing up

24:19

front. So he played three years,

24:21

I think, for what was then

24:23

sold to Tottenham for what was

24:25

a club record fear at time

24:27

of 30,000. in my preparation for

24:29

this conversation John I actually looks up

24:31

what does 30,000 then equate to now

24:33

it's about half a million so that's

24:36

kind of what we're talking about but

24:38

he went off to Tottenham for 30,000

24:40

which I don't suppose was anything to

24:42

do with the manager at the time

24:44

I'd say that was the cantankerous old

24:47

chairman who got a whiff of 30

24:49

grand and off he went to Tottenham.

24:51

It didn't really work out for him

24:53

at Tottenham. He played about 20 games

24:55

in three years. I don't think he

24:57

might have scored one or two goals,

25:00

nothing more than that. It just didn't

25:02

work out for him, which was a

25:04

shame because I'm sure that would have

25:07

been his club. I'm sure he would

25:09

love to have made it work at

25:11

Tottenham. They let him go and he

25:13

drifted off to Charlton Athletic and had

25:16

three years there, or two and a

25:18

half years there. He then came back

25:20

to Oxford, initially on loan, initially on

25:23

loan. and subsequently as a permanent sign.

25:25

It was a pretty chaotic Watford really

25:27

at that time. That would have

25:29

been 73-4 and 73-4 and indeed

25:32

74-5 and indeed 75-6. There

25:34

was nothing much going on

25:36

really to hang your hat

25:38

on. Initially the manager was

25:40

George Kirby who you quite

25:42

possibly haven't even heard of

25:44

as a Watford manager. But

25:46

Mike Keene took over as

25:49

manager subsequently and he was

25:51

by all accounts the nicest

25:53

man you could ever meet

25:55

but was simply not cut

25:57

out to manager third or

25:59

subsequently. fourth division football team. To

26:01

be honest Dennis I would have

26:04

said drifted along. I bet he

26:06

had a really nice time at

26:08

the club at that time playing

26:10

for Mike Keene. whose managerial style

26:12

was so laid back he was

26:15

almost body horizontal. Nothing really changed

26:17

I think we were relegated to

26:19

the fourth division which was an

26:21

absolute scandal because we had some

26:24

really good players but those really

26:26

good players came together from really

26:28

poor side and it just needed

26:30

somebody a blind man could see

26:32

that that something needed to happen.

26:35

and then of course something happened

26:37

when a man arrived from

26:39

Lincoln City and everything changed

26:41

overnight. What was not helpful

26:43

for Dennis Bond is that

26:45

Graham didn't fancy him, he

26:47

just simply didn't fancy him,

26:49

he wasn't Graham's type of

26:51

player full stop and certainly

26:53

not his type of midfielder.

26:55

Probably not enough graft, not

26:57

enough effort really. I think Dennis

27:00

cruised around a bit possibly in

27:02

the... in the style of Mike

27:04

Keen. Dennis Bond stayed at the

27:06

club for one season under Graham,

27:08

but he didn't play him. I

27:11

think he had two games at

27:13

the beginning of the season, and

27:15

then I think Graham kindly gave

27:17

in three games at the end

27:19

of the season, probably the health and

27:21

skip club, when he inevitably left, and

27:24

as he was about to do. By

27:26

the time he left... the full flow

27:28

of Graham Taylor was was underway and

27:31

Dennis's departure yeah people would have been

27:33

sad to see him go because he

27:35

was a good lad and a really

27:37

good player but Graham made it palpably

27:40

obvious that he didn't fit in and

27:42

he wasn't Graham sort of player so

27:44

yeah people were people were sad to

27:47

see him go but there were other

27:49

things going on at a club by

27:51

then and Dennis Bond was never going

27:53

to be part of a Graham Taylor

27:55

squad sadly. I heard if I pulled

27:58

out a quote they interviewed him. on,

28:00

do you know that Watford Legends website? They

28:02

interviewed Dennis Bond as one of those and

28:04

they said, Dennis how did you find Graham

28:06

Taylor? And he said, I wasn't that impressed

28:08

to be honest. He didn't tell me I'd

28:10

been given a free transfer until quite late

28:13

on, but that was up to him. Normally

28:15

you'd give somebody a bit of notice. There

28:17

was no falling out or anything like that.

28:19

He just didn't fancy me. Yeah, it

28:21

was sad and it was a shame

28:24

because he was a better player than

28:26

he ever really demonstrated demonstrated demonstrated demonstrated,

28:28

I think. We're the ons, you're

28:30

the ons. Come on the roads!

28:33

Really interesting, the fact that he,

28:35

and I tried to liken him,

28:37

Dennis, to another more modern day

28:39

player, was that what for two

28:41

periods, clearly a well-loved player,

28:43

but was never around when the

28:45

good times happened. I want to

28:48

go with Haida, I thought maybe

28:50

Tommy Smith, but no, he wasn't

28:52

that sort of player. His second

28:54

phase of time was here was, well,

28:56

it wasn't good at all at all.

28:58

but lovely I think I love about

29:00

speaking to people like David it's not

29:03

just reading the history book about it

29:05

but actually the feelings that fans have

29:07

about it so yeah lovely here about

29:09

Dennis yeah it was nice nice to

29:11

hear um you say about thinking about

29:13

a player see what you're liking him

29:15

so I was doing the same thing

29:17

thing and I thought Craig Rammage it's

29:19

someone who was there was yeah there

29:21

was something there maybe not the complete

29:23

player and at a time when things

29:25

weren't great of Craig Rourage I also

29:27

loved his point saying there was a

29:29

whiff of top of him before he

29:31

left and they kind of got me

29:34

thinking he said things were different in

29:36

those days players would sort of start

29:38

their trade almost in the lower

29:40

division so that they wouldn't get picked up

29:42

to play in an academy at such

29:44

a young age for a Premier League side

29:46

and take it from that they would have

29:48

to sort of learn and get picked up, the

29:50

scouting perhaps wasn't as good. And he got

29:52

that opportunity. Unfortunately for him it didn't work

29:54

out, but he came back to Victory Road,

29:57

so it kind of worked out for us,

29:59

just I think. As he said, he was

30:01

just the right player at the wrong time.

30:03

Yeah, 300 appearances, over 300 appearances, 42 goals.

30:05

But let him look forward, Michael, I was

30:07

looking over there at Arla. And he's got

30:09

his quadro, he's this quadrobar shirt on. Tom's

30:12

be speaking the week, as you mentioned, about

30:14

players coming back. We've got two games after

30:16

this for the break. Yeah. And then we've

30:18

got a run in and Tom sorts of these

30:21

players coming back. Yes, the first half made us

30:23

made us think, play off run is happening, play

30:25

off run that's happening, play off run

30:27

is happening. The second half took that

30:29

away from us. Are you really thinking about

30:32

it? Are you thinking more? Well

30:34

I'm thinking more of the fact

30:36

that I was, as you know, first

30:38

we did this podcast, Mountford Maccarb was

30:41

obsessed with 52 points. Get a 52

30:43

points and we would be free and we're

30:45

not getting relegated. Well we're on

30:47

48 points the moment and then

30:49

the average over the last 10 years,

30:52

that's more than enough. Are you, are you

30:54

looking forward to... more positive performances

30:56

or are you actually really

30:58

thinking about? Well, the playoff has always

31:01

been in the back of your mind

31:03

because if you're three points away from

31:05

getting into that zone, then you're only

31:07

a win away from it and the

31:09

championship this season has shown that the

31:11

quality isn't there for anyone outside the

31:14

top four, five to really seven at

31:16

their place in the playoffs. So it's

31:18

always sort of tantalizing me there. I

31:20

haven't really... believed that we have to

31:22

worry about when we book our holidays.

31:25

It may just yet. There's the mic

31:27

we know in love. And that's not

31:29

being overly negative or silly about it.

31:31

It's just that the games have been,

31:34

like I said before, the games are

31:36

so close. We know what the reality

31:38

of this team is. I've seen probably

31:40

more games this year than I have

31:42

for a long time. And you can

31:44

just tell that really, unless the blue

31:46

touch paper is lit, then it's not

31:49

going to happen. But there is

31:51

a sort of, there is a lot

31:53

of blue touch paper sort of

31:55

peaking up above the ground like

31:57

a firework dug in, right into

31:59

the back. ready for to be

32:01

carefully approached and tortured because we

32:03

have got players to come back,

32:05

namely Quadro Bar who we've lamented not

32:08

just today throughout the season about

32:10

our prowess in the final third

32:12

and there is no doubt about

32:14

it. Quadro Bar has been an

32:16

absolute revelation this this season

32:18

for Watford. Defenders regardless of

32:20

who he's come up against

32:23

have found him virtually unplayable

32:25

when he's on it, including

32:27

Manchester City. who had a referee's

32:29

decision to thank for them, not conceding

32:31

a perfectly good goal. So he is

32:34

a game changer, and in any team,

32:36

he is definitely a game changer

32:38

in a team where we're struggling for

32:40

potency in the final third. So we've

32:42

got him to come back. So if

32:45

somehow we can pick up results against

32:47

Oxford and Swansea, we should be in

32:49

the... So if we're in the big

32:51

boy, it wouldn't be a surprise if

32:53

we got six points, it wouldn't be

32:55

a surprise if we got none, either. and

32:57

we've spoken about Kevin to come back as

33:00

well. Bar and Vata is one that excites

33:02

me. They seem to, when they're both on

33:04

the pitch together, it's bold, but they seem

33:06

to feed off each other a little bit.

33:09

Rocco had a really tough afternoon today. So

33:11

look, I think there is going to be

33:13

some fun to be had for the rest

33:15

of the season and almost being outside the

33:18

real contenders in most people eyes may well

33:20

suit them. There's sort of bit of bit

33:22

of pressure off, nothing to... nothing really to

33:24

lose and they can just go and have

33:27

a really good go at it we're not going

33:29

to get relegated and so there's what

33:31

10 11 games to go let's

33:33

just go and have a swing

33:35

and hopefully with those guys that

33:37

were coming back we can we

33:39

can enjoy it because I do

33:41

maintain that largely this season has

33:43

been quite enjoyable unexpectedly so yeah

33:46

lots of nuggety performances very few

33:48

complete sort of showings and we've

33:50

never washed sides away but It's a

33:52

team that we can take pride and pleasure

33:54

in watching more often than not and with

33:56

those, with bar in particular coming back, I

33:58

think we, I think it's... to be excited to

34:01

be looking forward to and coming back.

34:03

I'm looking forward to bars last minute

34:05

winner at Fratton Park. Yeah, that's down

34:07

your fortnight dances. But the next time

34:09

the game's, Jordan, Oxford's one day and

34:12

we should get something from it. Are

34:14

you now ultimately confident when we go

34:16

into games? I'm confident because I

34:18

know what we can do, but as we've

34:20

talked about, we've got limitations, as has every

34:23

team, which is why there's four teams that

34:25

are going to be... at the top of the

34:27

league there's a huge amount of teams and there's

34:29

one team in particular on the bottom who's really

34:31

struggling which is great but we're one of those

34:33

teams and I think we should be grateful you

34:36

know the playoffs have been on the horizon and

34:38

they like the horizon that as closely you get

34:40

to it that it's still far away from you

34:42

but it's always been there whereas there was a

34:44

fear at the start of the season that we

34:46

were going to be in a relegation scrap and

34:48

you know losing these games could be really important

34:50

to us could be really important to us

34:52

but today so I You go to any game in

34:54

this division knowing that we could actually win

34:57

it. But you don't go into every game thinking

34:59

we will win it. So I guess that's nice

35:01

because you can think about some teams

35:03

like the man cities of the recent

35:05

years. They're kind of, it's a disappointment

35:07

when you don't get the win because you expect

35:09

to win every game and you lose. Whereas

35:11

we, I think we've got the benefit of,

35:13

to an extent, enjoying the victories because

35:15

they are always in the balance because

35:17

it's such an even league and... Absolutely,

35:20

we've got players to come back, we've got

35:22

players that will lose, we've got players

35:24

we've got to fill in and there's no...

35:26

this is a people talking about Arsenal, you

35:28

know, Ian Wright, hammering on about Arsenal, we've

35:31

needed a striker for the last three or

35:33

four or five windows. And I think, well, so

35:35

have we. So is we. So is that

35:37

something they're working on for the summer? Because,

35:39

no, we're going to lose players, but that's

35:42

a position where in this division where in

35:44

this division, in this division in particular. So

35:46

you get a striker who's, because we've got

35:48

like losers chatting with Tadzi who are our

35:50

better players, if your better player is the

35:52

center forward and he's getting you 20-25 goals, for

35:54

a team that is in a division that is

35:57

very balanced out, then that can make a

35:59

huge difference. So... I'm kind of optimistic in a sense

36:01

that we could win every single one of our remaining

36:03

games. You could roll a six if you roll the dice ten

36:05

times, roll six. Ten six is unlikely. But you know, you could.

36:07

I don't think we'll win every game. I said on the pot

36:09

on Sunday, I don't think we'll make the playoffs simply

36:11

because of days like today. They get in the way.

36:14

If we can't enjoy it, then the sun shining, hopefully

36:16

we'll continue. Hopefully we won't play against teams and make

36:18

us. And make us kick the wrong with the wrong way in the wrong

36:20

way in the wrong way in the wrong way in the wrong way in the

36:22

wrong way in the wrong way in the wrong way in the wrong way in

36:24

the wrong way in the wrong way in the first half. I think there's

36:26

every reason to be optimistic and

36:28

I think what would be really

36:30

important for the players is the

36:32

international break. I was going to say Dumbio

36:35

had been gone for most nothing to play

36:37

in every 90 minutes quite frequently and we

36:39

have to watch out for him and obviously

36:41

now he's injured. You have to see how bad

36:43

is and when he's back. But I think we

36:46

need to recharge our batteries, maybe we're good at

36:48

what we do. As we saw today as soon

36:50

as teams adapt to it, we need a plan

36:52

B, we need a plan B, something to work to

36:54

work. We don't lose it too one,

36:56

we adapt and push the team 30,

36:58

40 yards further forward so we're not

37:01

getting pressed. But I'm not,

37:03

I'm not unconfident, you know, I

37:05

don't look at Swansea, I don't

37:07

look at Oxford and go, oh,

37:09

they're brilliant, you know, they're going

37:12

to try and search and lead you kind

37:14

of a little bit, oh, they're

37:16

a very good team compared

37:18

to everyone else. We could win every game, oh,

37:20

we gave away the ball in the first, I... enjoy the

37:22

fact that Selvik did a Croy's turn, more than him, more

37:24

than him, given the ball away in the first half when

37:26

we could have gone with anything. If you want to look

37:28

at the glass half empty, then as an average team you'll

37:30

find plenty of opportunities. Just try and I guess this try

37:32

and be optimistic, we just try and enjoy it, we do

37:35

it, we do fun, right? Yeah. Jason, hard question, the entire

37:37

podcast, so we're having some fun. Ammy goals is back back

37:39

back in by again by again in the school for the

37:41

school for the rest of the rest of the rest of

37:43

the season for the season for the season for the season

37:45

for the season for the season for the season for the

37:47

season for the season. I think he might get a couple.

37:49

I think he might get a couple.

37:51

It would pop up. Mike Tyson. I

37:54

mean, we've got to play a shift

37:56

for Wednesday again. So... Thank you

37:58

very much, Jason. Thank you. joining. Cheers.

38:00

Thank you Michael. Cheers all. And thank you

38:02

for David. Who's time to have a chat

38:05

about Dennis Bond? And well, we'll go out

38:07

and we'll podcast and see where this season

38:09

takes us as we follow what from the

38:11

record. Come on you on!