0:00

right. The invitation, Mike,

0:02

is to close your eyes. And

0:05

together, we're going to take

0:07

three deep four -by -four breaths. So

0:09

four seconds in, hold for

0:11

four. Four seconds out, hold

0:13

for four. Let's begin.

0:15

In. Hold

0:20

it. hold

0:32

in hold

0:39

it out

0:44

hold

0:50

it

0:53

last one in

1:04

Exhale. With

1:09

your eyes closed, I have

1:11

a few words for you. You

1:18

are the source of your truth, Mike

1:20

Wagner. Everything

1:22

you need is within you. You

1:25

are the leader of your

1:28

family, Mike Wagner. Your

1:30

presence and intention will guide

1:33

the way. You

1:36

are a gift to the world,

1:38

Mike Wagner. All

1:40

it ever wants is your fullest

1:42

expression. There

1:45

is nothing left to do

1:47

except be here now. Mike

1:50

Wagner, welcome to this past versus

1:52

present FRD spotlight. You may

1:54

open your eyes. Thank

1:56

you, brother. That was awesome, my man. Yeah,

1:59

it felt fun. It

2:01

felt like a nice way to

2:04

introduce you. and be with

2:06

you before we jump

2:08

into this. So our intention

2:10

for this fun spotlight

2:12

recording is to give people

2:14

awareness on

2:16

Mike Wagner past versus present.

2:18

So Mike Wagner before

2:20

FRD and Mike Wagner today. And

2:24

I've got a few questions that we've

2:26

agreed that we're going to do some

2:28

quicker responses to while also informing whoever

2:30

listens to this that each

2:32

of these questions, you and I,

2:34

could likely spend hours on

2:36

as we have in the past.

2:38

So I'm just creating that

2:40

awareness in that this will actually

2:42

be work for us to

2:44

do this quickly and we'll see

2:46

what emerges without feeling hyper

2:48

rushed. Sound good? Sounds

2:51

good, my man. Sweet. So

2:53

the first question I have,

2:56

Mike, is going back to

2:58

past Mike, before Front Row

3:00

Dads, how did you respond

3:02

to this question? What

3:04

do you do? Free

3:10

Front Row Dads, that was

3:12

a quick professional answer that

3:14

would include, you know, I

3:16

would have told you that

3:19

we help people learn how to

3:21

invest in self -storage. Our tagline is,

3:23

we use ordinary garages to create

3:25

extraordinary lives. And

3:27

that would have been as...

3:30

expansive of an answer as you would have gotten

3:33

out of me back then i think right right

3:35

yep i can

3:37

relate so shifting today

3:39

what do you do

3:41

mike wagner oh dude it's so

3:43

funny that you ask that

3:46

because i have no freaking idea

3:48

at least looking through the lens

3:50

that i just answered like professionally i'm

3:52

still trying to figure out what

3:54

i want to be when i grow

3:56

up That said, what I do

3:58

is I do my best to model

4:00

for my wife and kids

4:03

what it means to be

4:05

present and engaged and active

4:07

and alive and walk through

4:09

this world in a way

4:11

that we can be proud

4:14

of and that also feels

4:16

good to us and on

4:18

a day in and day out

4:20

basis. What I'm spending

4:22

most of my time

4:24

doing these days is figuring

4:26

out how to be more and more

4:29

present with myself so that I

4:31

can be more and more present with

4:33

the people that I love. Yes.

4:36

I love that And see, I'm already

4:38

catching myself. I'm

4:41

refraining from a

4:43

long reflection, which is my

4:45

normal way of being with you. But I will

4:47

reflect back that. You

4:49

are one of the few

4:52

people in my world that I

4:54

believe deeply prioritizes themselves

4:56

so that you can show up

4:58

for others. And I've seen that.

5:00

I've experienced it. I've been with

5:02

you. And so that's a very

5:04

real answer. Thank you. Number

5:07

two, going

5:09

back to pre -FRD

5:11

Mike, what did

5:13

you value most and prioritize? I

5:23

think my highest

5:25

priority and

5:27

the thing I

5:30

valued most was progress,

5:32

growth, achievement, impressing

5:35

people, right? All of

5:37

these things that the world

5:40

would have us use to

5:42

measure our quote unquote success.

5:46

Yep. Okay. Awesome. Again,

5:48

I can relate. Shifting

5:51

back to today. Now,

5:53

what do you value and most prioritize? Peace.

5:59

Calm. And

6:04

I want to maybe add the caveat

6:07

to those is, you know, I

6:09

don't, as much as I enjoy sitting,

6:11

you know, cross -legged

6:13

in a beautiful

6:15

mountaintop experience, perfectly serene and

6:18

zen and all of that.

6:20

That's not really what I mean

6:22

when I say peace and

6:24

calm. What I'm referring to is

6:26

inside myself, my nervous system. My

6:30

highest value

6:32

and priority is

6:34

to reclaim control of that

6:36

system. And be able

6:38

to be at peace, even amidst the

6:40

storm or the chaos that maybe your

6:42

11 year old throwing a meltdown for

6:44

what's going on two and a half

6:46

hours now, or I'm just using an

6:49

example. That's not real

6:51

or anything today. That's not at

6:53

all. That's that's not happening in

6:55

real time. Yeah, no, it totally

6:57

is. And that's all right. But

6:59

being able to cultivate a semblance of

7:01

peace through that, as again, going

7:03

back to what I said before,

7:05

as a way. Not only to

7:07

model it for them, but that's

7:09

that's the ancillary benefit. Doing

7:13

it for myself has become really like

7:15

the only way to try and

7:17

live. I wish I were better at

7:20

it. I wish I were perfect

7:22

at it. That's that's not how it

7:24

works. So I wrestle with it

7:26

and and and that's part of

7:28

the journey, you know. Indeed. Yep.

7:31

Yeah. I so this is

7:33

so important that because

7:35

that word. is very real

7:37

and and valuable in

7:39

my world peace and i

7:41

have a similar

7:44

relationship where i realized a

7:46

while ago when i when that

7:48

word came into focus that i want

7:50

it but not all the time because

7:52

there's a there's

7:54

a risk of

7:56

leaving the human

7:58

experience if it's always peace

8:00

and so i like And

8:03

I align with what you're saying that peace

8:06

is great, but it's also this knowing

8:08

that you can come back to peace

8:10

when we get dysregulated. To me, that's

8:13

the Jedi move that I'm still trying

8:15

to master in a humble way, knowing

8:17

like I still get rocked. And

8:19

being with that rockiness, that

8:21

volatility, that's the game.

8:23

It's not like, oh, no,

8:25

I'm always at peace.

8:27

This won't. It won't get me.

8:29

It's like, no, I'm human. This will happen.

8:32

But can I get back to peace? So

8:34

thank you for that. All

8:36

right. Question number three. How

8:39

did Mike used to define his role

8:41

as a father? Again, pre

8:44

-FRD. What would you have said? I

8:50

think I probably would have said that, you know. Some

8:53

of the obvious things like to

8:55

provide for them, to protect them,

8:57

you know, and when I say

8:59

provide, I mean financially, of course,

9:01

but also, you know, emotionally and

9:03

physically provide for their needs. And.

9:12

There would have also been an element

9:14

of like. To

9:16

raise them, quote unquote,

9:19

right. There was an

9:21

element of. My own

9:23

egoic involvement that I wasn't

9:25

really aware of at the

9:27

time that had me um,

9:30

envisioning what it meant

9:32

to To

9:36

quote unquote, be good

9:38

or right or, you

9:40

know, whatever other subjective truth

9:42

I'm going to pretend

9:44

is an objective absolute

9:46

and and kind of.

9:50

I would do my best to imprint

9:52

that on them. Totally.

9:56

totally. So you probably know where this is going. Fast

9:59

forward to today. How do

10:02

you define your role today as a

10:04

father? Yeah, some of it's still

10:06

the same, right? I still believe that

10:08

it is my job to provide

10:10

for them. Not

10:13

just financially and physically and

10:15

emotionally, also spiritually. It's probably an

10:17

area of huge growth over

10:19

the last several years that coincided

10:22

with my involvement with Front

10:24

Row Dads. And

10:26

I think the bigger shift,

10:29

though, is that my role

10:31

as a dad is one

10:33

that centers around... Teaching

10:38

them through example rather

10:40

than lecture how to regulate

10:42

themselves and how to

10:44

integrate the experiences that they

10:46

have into their existence

10:48

so that they can become

10:50

who God created them

10:52

to be rather than me

10:54

trying to make them

10:56

who I want them to

10:58

be. offering them the

11:00

support they need so that

11:02

they can grow into

11:04

who they're supposed to be.

11:06

Not, you know, my

11:08

made up opinion of what

11:10

they're supposed to be.

11:13

You know, that lands. Yep.

11:15

Yeah. Is there a particular example

11:17

or moment where you're like,

11:19

oh, yes, this was an opportunity

11:21

for me to let go

11:23

and give them that space to

11:25

what I would say is

11:27

to walk their path. Does anything

11:29

come to mind immediately? Um,

11:32

yeah, quick, quick short story is, um, kind

11:34

of the different ways in which I used

11:36

to relate to my son and I relate

11:38

to him now, particularly on a mountain, right?

11:40

We do, he and I do a lot

11:42

of hiking. We're climbing the 46 high peaks

11:44

in New York. And, um, you know, when

11:46

we started this, he wanted to do it

11:48

and I wanted him to do it as

11:50

well. And I wanted to do it with

11:52

him. Um, and there, I had a strong

11:54

egoic attachment to, to getting to the top.

11:58

and pushing him. And I think there's

12:00

value in perseverance and grit and not

12:02

giving up when it's hard, but not

12:04

if it's coerced. And so this past

12:06

summer, we had a kind of before

12:08

and after experience, the after side of

12:10

it, where we were climbing up a

12:13

mountain and it was going to be

12:15

an easier mountain than we've done in

12:17

the past. And he was quite confident

12:19

and borderline cocky about it. And then

12:21

some things didn't go well in the

12:23

first. i don't know 15

12:25

minutes of a six or eight

12:28

hour day and and we we

12:30

started to spiral and i i

12:32

was able to zoom out and

12:34

just um shift away from trying

12:36

to end his meltdown and instead

12:38

just creating a container within which

12:40

he could express what needed to

12:42

be expressed and you know we

12:44

had a great talk we talked

12:47

it through um and And

12:49

ultimately, I was in a position to

12:51

give him the choice and say, hey, buddy,

12:53

listen, there's no pressure for us to

12:55

do this. This mountain will be here next

12:57

week, next year. We don't have to

12:59

do it. If it's not fun or good,

13:01

let's just not do it. And

13:04

the cool part is that over

13:06

the course of, I don't know, 15

13:08

or 20 minutes, we worked through

13:10

that. And then we submitted the mountain

13:12

three hours later and had an

13:14

awesome, awesome day. Which

13:16

makes for a good story

13:18

today, but more than that

13:20

was like a defining moment

13:22

in where I think instead

13:24

of me just wanting to

13:26

make this shift, like it

13:28

was a poignant example where

13:30

he got to experience the

13:33

shift that I had been

13:35

trying to make. Yes.

13:37

Dude, that's so real. I knew

13:39

a little bit about that story

13:41

because we're good friends and you

13:43

shared a bit of it earlier,

13:45

but... so real for

13:47

me in that mic is

13:49

some of the words you

13:51

used creating the container so

13:54

that they can be with

13:56

what they really want to

13:58

experience without our projections our

14:00

our wants because egos is

14:02

really great at being like

14:04

yo i'm gonna i'm gonna

14:07

do this now with you

14:09

and i've noticed i have

14:11

this like fun thought musing

14:13

theory whatever that Kids

14:15

have this knowing of when we

14:17

want something for them. And to

14:19

your point, they know when the

14:21

container is safe and when it's

14:24

not. At least my son does.

14:26

My son Evers is nine. And

14:28

it's how I show up and

14:30

oftentimes without words. And he just

14:32

sees like, oh, dad's here. He's

14:34

holding this space and I can

14:36

be me. That's when he's

14:38

expressed and when he does. the

14:40

magical things that he can do. Whereas

14:42

other times when I'm, I love

14:44

the word used coerced, he's like, no,

14:46

I know. And he doesn't even

14:49

know how to explain it sometimes, but

14:51

he knows. He's like, oh shit,

14:53

dad wants this, you know? So dude,

14:55

props to you for that because

14:57

it's hard. That's the hard part is

14:59

really holding that container. All right,

15:01

beautiful. Few more questions. Shifting

15:04

into FRD

15:06

today. You are a

15:09

very important part of the

15:11

community, a veteran member. Six

15:14

years showing up in all

15:16

kinds of beautiful ways. So a

15:18

few of these questions are,

15:20

I invite you to kind of

15:22

share as it relates to

15:25

things you've learned as a front

15:27

row dad. And the first

15:29

one is, as a veteran member,

15:31

what do you think most

15:33

fathers want? I

15:41

don't know that I can

15:43

answer what most fathers want,

15:45

but I can, in retrospect,

15:47

share with you what I

15:49

wanted. And that was

15:51

to feel good enough, to feel

15:53

like I stacked up to the

15:56

job, like I had what it

15:58

takes to be trusted with this

16:00

crazy responsibility of freaking parenting, right?

16:02

Which is nuts. And

16:07

when it comes to what

16:09

I wanted from Front Row Dads,

16:11

it was I wanted to

16:14

feel supported in my quest toward

16:16

feeling confident and capable and

16:18

adequate to raise my kids in

16:20

a truly healthy way rather

16:22

than in a way that mimicked

16:24

maybe how I was raised. Yes,

16:28

I love that. This is

16:30

a perfect segue into the second

16:32

question I have here is

16:34

that... where do you think some

16:36

of your deepest learning has

16:38

occurred as a father being on

16:40

this beautiful journey with front

16:42

row debts and maybe you've already

16:44

spoken to some of it

16:46

so don't don't you could double

16:48

down you could you could

16:50

tell another short story but i

16:52

to to really clarify i

16:54

think there's beauty in some of

16:56

the deepest learning we're learning

16:58

all the time but like what

17:00

if any of those moments

17:02

come we're like oh that was

17:04

a shift Perhaps. Yeah, yeah.

17:07

No, it's a great question. I

17:09

think I'd have to point

17:11

to, I mean, there are a

17:13

dozen different kind of inflection

17:15

points that I experienced as a

17:17

direct result of my involvement

17:19

and active engagement in Front Row

17:21

Dads. And

17:23

what they all have in

17:25

common is that they were

17:27

experiential, right? Like, it's funny

17:29

because they were all things

17:31

that... i knew in

17:34

advance like no one had

17:36

to tell me but it

17:38

wasn't that i learned the

17:40

fact it was within the

17:42

container that that jv and

17:44

and you build so well

17:46

i was able to connect

17:48

deeply with men around things

17:50

that were important to me

17:52

and us and And then

17:54

kind of live and experience

17:56

the truth of the fact

17:58

that I had already wrapped

18:00

my head around and really

18:02

moved that, what I would

18:04

describe as intellectual understanding into

18:06

like a full body knowing. And

18:10

again, I could point to a

18:12

dozen different examples, but they're either

18:14

at the VIB retreats, the adventure

18:16

series with you, like just, you

18:19

know, and then of course, you

18:21

got to bring that home. I

18:24

don't want to be prescriptive. I'll talk to

18:26

myself. Part of what

18:28

I had to do to

18:30

really integrate and internalize those inflection

18:33

points and have them become

18:35

more than just a peak experience,

18:37

but something that became real

18:39

for me going forward was to

18:41

come home and integrate and

18:43

do the work necessary to make

18:46

it happen. That's so

18:48

big. So thank you

18:50

for both that powerful and

18:53

simple answer of experiential. Cause

18:55

again, that lands with me.

18:57

I align with that deeply.

18:59

And also emphasizing that you

19:01

have to bring it home.

19:03

You have to do the

19:05

work. It's easy to hear

19:07

it, understand it, and even

19:09

do it with your dudes.

19:11

Like I've become really comfortable

19:13

doing men's work, but then

19:15

shifting back into this beautiful,

19:17

chaotic, sometimes peaceful

19:19

home environment, right?

19:22

And doing the work there, that's a

19:24

different level of courage. At least I've

19:26

experienced it that way. And so, oh

19:29

man, I think that's such a huge insight. And

19:32

that is a great

19:34

transition into the final

19:36

question, which is actually

19:38

your opportunity to offer

19:40

one invitation that you'd

19:42

share with other fathers

19:44

on their journey. anything

19:46

you want what's one

19:48

invitation and and give

19:50

yourself permission to be

19:52

clear to give them

19:54

an invitation forget about

19:57

the projections the prescriptions

19:59

what would you invite

20:01

them into my invitation

20:03

would be to them

20:05

to consider

20:08

how their life

20:10

might shift If

20:14

of trying to kill

20:16

off the parts of themselves

20:18

that they don't like

20:20

or don't don't stack up

20:22

to where they want

20:24

them to be instead of

20:26

trying to kill those

20:29

parts off, might their life

20:31

shift if they were

20:33

to instead love those parts

20:37

That's a Mike Wagner invitation

20:40

and we're not So we're

20:42

not going to jam on

20:44

this further because that's the

20:46

work that's part of what

20:48

you get to share with

20:50

them on the journey So

20:53

what a beautiful place to

20:55

wrap this short awesome interview.

20:57

thank you Mike for creating

20:59

space for this thank you

21:01

brother all right