0:05

Is there a mindset that keeps

0:07

people broke? Went from not having any

0:09

money to within five years having

0:11

millions in the bank. The gateway to

0:13

living a richer life, a more

0:15

fulfilling, loving, joyful, peaceful, harmonious life is...

0:18

Anytime we're creating from a

0:20

space of proving others wrong,

0:22

you'll always be left with

0:24

some sense of frustration. I

0:26

felt emotionally insecure. Let

0:28

me make money. Now I have more opportunities

0:30

to cause pain on myself. For Lewis

0:32

Howes, a career -ending injury didn't just take

0:35

away football. It took away his

0:37

identity and his future. Lewis

0:39

didn't just recover. He reinvented himself,

0:41

finding success through a transformed

0:43

mindset, key relationships, and strategic environments.

0:46

I lived with darkness inside of me most

0:48

of my childhood. I was five years old

0:51

as being sexual abused by a man that

0:53

I didn't know. If anyone knew this about

0:55

me, why would anyone love or accept me?

0:57

And so I just buried it. Does it

0:59

still pop up? I

1:04

want to go to your senior year of college. Now,

1:07

people who followed you have heard you

1:09

share the story, but for those who

1:11

don't know, your father was in a severe

1:13

car accident and hit some real

1:15

fundamental changes on him

1:17

from physical to the

1:19

mental. I don't know if it affected his

1:21

personality. And you at that

1:24

point may be thinking about going

1:26

into his business. He was in the

1:28

insurance business and this severe accident

1:30

changes everything. And

1:32

no backup plans early on in life.

1:34

I want you to take us to

1:36

that because I think it'd be really

1:38

interesting to hear as you look back

1:40

all these years later, How did

1:42

that shape you? What do we need to

1:44

know about what happened? And then I'd love

1:47

for you to share how it shaped you.

1:50

Well, it's 20 years ago. I was

1:52

a senior in college and my

1:54

dad went away on a trip during

1:56

my senior year of playing football. He

1:59

was going to be gone for a week and miss a game.

2:01

And he almost never missed a game. He would

2:03

fly everywhere to watch me play from high school to

2:05

college. So it was very weird that he would

2:07

actually miss a game. And before he

2:09

left, Something felt off inside of him.

2:11

I saw him like a day before

2:13

he left. And he

2:15

said, I'm going to go on a spiritual journey

2:17

on this trip. And something was just

2:19

shifted different to him. Then about a

2:21

week later on the trip, he got in this

2:23

car accident. He was in a coma for three months,

2:26

and we didn't know if he was going to

2:28

live or die. So it was a big shake up

2:30

to the family, to everyone, because he was kind

2:32

of like the rock, right? He was the one who

2:34

led us for our whole life. And so, He

2:36

eventually woke up from the coma. He was in New

2:38

Zealand. So I didn't see him for a few

2:40

months. He flew back and I

2:42

was expecting him to be the same,

2:44

but he never was again. He

2:47

was physically alive, but emotionally a

2:49

different person. And he didn't remember

2:51

much. So every time I saw

2:53

him until he passed a few

2:55

years ago, it was, where

2:58

did you go to school again? What sport

3:00

did you play again? He could have a conversation,

3:02

but he didn't remember. everything that

3:04

he experienced in life. So it was

3:06

like losing a father, but physically he's

3:08

still alive. And as

3:10

you know, Ken, that our beliefs

3:13

influence our behaviors. And

3:15

I started to have certain beliefs

3:17

in life that were shaped much

3:19

earlier than that from many different

3:21

memories and stories that happened in

3:23

my life where I created meaning

3:26

around those memories. Those memories, that

3:28

accident, everything in life shaped a

3:30

belief system inside of me. And

3:33

the belief system was very, I

3:35

was very insecure at that moment.

3:37

I didn't feel safe for a

3:39

number of reasons, but that being one of the

3:41

biggest ones. And yet I

3:43

was in my early twenties. And so I

3:45

was acting like I had it all put together.

3:47

I had a big ego, but inside I

3:49

was a really scared little boy. And

3:51

I never knew how to

3:54

create a connection between my

3:56

adult male self. with

3:58

all the memories and stories and

4:01

beliefs that I'd built from my

4:03

earliest memories. And so

4:05

it was a very confusing time, very

4:07

scary time emotionally in that time.

4:09

But I'm guessing also professionally and financially

4:11

in that, did you see yourself

4:13

moving into his business, maybe working with

4:16

him? At what point were you

4:18

thinking about that and how did that...

4:20

I went and took an internship. He

4:22

worked at Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance for

4:24

30 -something years. and I learned about

4:26

the business, but it was never like my dream. And

4:28

so he was like, you know, go play

4:30

football, take it as far as you can, go live

4:32

for whatever sports dream you have, and you can always

4:34

come back and like work with me. So it was

4:36

a safety net, right? But it wasn't something that I

4:38

was choosing, it was his

4:40

dream as well. And it wasn't like

4:42

it would have been the wrong thing, it just wasn't what I

4:44

was called to do. And so this

4:47

accident, for me, I

4:49

truly believe that, It

4:52

was a gift for him, and it was a gift for

4:54

me, even though for years I didn't see it that way. And

4:57

I don't think I could have become

4:59

the person I am today without him

5:01

going through that accident. Had he been

5:03

healthy, had he been financially secure, and

5:05

had I gone and worked for him, I

5:08

don't think I'd be where I'm at. And

5:10

I think it's these challenging experiences that, and

5:12

many others that I experienced. that

5:14

gave me a lot of drive,

5:16

a lot of compassion for

5:18

humanity and made me curious about human

5:20

beings, about why people think and do

5:22

the things they do. And I also

5:24

grew up not having many friends, most

5:26

of my childhood. So I was very

5:29

driven. Why is that? I was the

5:31

youngest of four. My parents were fighting

5:33

a lot. They loved us, but they

5:35

didn't love each other. And so again,

5:37

I didn't feel emotionally safe at home and

5:39

I didn't have a model of marriage that was

5:41

healthy. That's what I grew up in. Marriage

5:44

felt like a trap. That was

5:46

a belief that I had based on the memories.

5:48

Why not? That's all you saw. So I saw him.

5:50

Felt like a trap. It felt like fear. It

5:52

felt very up and down. It

5:55

just didn't feel good. So I

5:57

begged my parents to send me away to a

5:59

private boarding school when I was 13. They

6:01

didn't want me to go. I begged them

6:03

all summer long. I went out. Wow. And

6:05

I didn't have friends for a

6:08

number of reasons. One, my brother went

6:10

to prison when I was eight

6:12

years old. for four and a

6:14

half years. And it was just very

6:16

confusing. I'm eight years old, my hero,

6:18

my oldest brother who's 19, this

6:20

happens to him. And there's a lot

6:22

of shame, a lot of sadness, a

6:24

lot of grief from my parents and

6:26

a lot of financial stress. So

6:29

they have to have, they don't make a lot of money

6:31

at that point as it is. They're working very hard, legal

6:34

fees, the shame of it all, the

6:36

community knows now, like all this

6:39

is piling up. So at eight, I

6:42

wasn't, I wasn't really allowed to have

6:44

friends, not because I didn't want

6:46

them, but because the neighborhood parents didn't

6:48

want their kids associated with me, because of

6:50

my brother. So I really

6:52

felt alone. And I know that

6:54

wasn't the case. I mean, I lived in

6:56

a home, I had parents, I had siblings,

6:58

but I emotionally felt alone. And I felt

7:00

very unsafe and very insecure. And

7:03

during this time, there was around

7:05

this time, around eight, I

7:07

just wanted to have friends. I just wanted to be accepted

7:09

in the neighborhood just like any one of us would

7:11

want. And there was

7:13

a after -school club, and you're talking

7:15

about beliefs, like how do these things

7:17

shape us? Yes. Our memories, and

7:20

the meaning we give our memories, create

7:22

a belief within us, a story we

7:24

tell ourselves. After

7:26

school, there was these kids who were starting a

7:28

club in the neighborhood. They

7:30

were in their parents' basement doing whatever,

7:32

playing video games or something. And they were

7:34

like, hey, we're starting a club. And

7:37

in order to, and I was like, I want to

7:39

be in the club. And they said, in order to join,

7:41

there's two different ways. One, you can answer a question, a

7:44

list of questions to get in. And

7:46

if you get them correct, you're in. If

7:48

not, then the second way is you have to

7:50

pay. Pay money. And

7:52

so I go, I don't have any money, so what's the questions? They ask

7:54

me a list of questions, I get them all wrong. So

7:57

it makes me feel even more

7:59

insecure, lesser than, dumb,

8:01

not enough, like this belief.

8:04

And so I run home to mom. And I

8:06

say, mom, I wanna join this club, but it's

8:08

$5. She looks at me with

8:10

sadness. One, because I don't

8:12

have any friends, and I have to pay

8:14

for friends. Two, because she doesn't have

8:16

the money, accessible. This is back in the

8:18

late eighties, right? But

8:21

she's like, let's play a game.

8:23

I want you to run to the couch and open

8:25

up the couch cushions and see if we can find some

8:27

change. So I'm running around the

8:29

house for like 30, 40 minutes. And she's

8:31

like, okay, go to my dresser and open up my dresser

8:33

drawer, see if we can find some change. We

8:35

find enough change within that hour. She puts it

8:37

in a shoebox. She's like, here you go. I

8:40

run back to this kid's house and I say,

8:42

I got the money. Can I be in the

8:44

club? And they say, yes. We're

8:46

hanging out in the basement, but they're in the

8:48

corner playing and they don't hang out with me. So

8:51

I'm not smart enough to be in a club

8:53

or have friends. Money

8:55

can't buy me friends. Then what's the

8:57

point of life? That

9:00

was a belief and a memory

9:02

that was a wound that was

9:04

just kind of like an

9:06

underlying wound among many other things

9:08

that I created an emotional attachment

9:10

to. I'm unlovable, people

9:12

don't accept me, I'm not smart enough to

9:15

fit in, people laugh at me. I

9:17

was in special needs classes all through

9:19

high school. I struggled and

9:21

I used false ego to

9:23

try to protect myself and stand

9:25

out and be accepted. So

9:28

I got into Stealing a lot

9:30

when I was like 10, 11, 12, I

9:32

would steal like candy bars at

9:34

stores or just find ways to like

9:36

feel powerful. Yeah. Cause I felt weak. So

9:40

how can I gain a sense of control,

9:42

a sense of power? And essentially

9:44

I hurt others and I hurt myself

9:46

in the process. And I was out

9:48

of alignment with integrity. I had no

9:50

integrity at that time. That's when

9:52

I met some kids who went to this school. I

9:54

was at a summer camp. I met these kids and

9:56

I was like, These are positive kids.

9:58

I want to be around this positive energy because

10:00

I didn't feel like I had

10:02

that with the community in my town

10:04

necessarily until then. And that's when

10:07

I left home and everything started to

10:09

shift. As someone who's experienced serious loneliness,

10:12

what do

10:14

you think is happening across

10:16

the board? I'm trying to

10:18

give you broad brush here because it's

10:20

a big question in 2025. where

10:23

we have all this loneliness. As somebody who's

10:25

experienced it, what do you think are some

10:28

of the drivers culturally? Well, I

10:30

just think a lack of wholeness, a lack

10:32

of healing, personal healing, a lack of

10:34

the ability to look yourself in the mirror

10:36

as weird as it sounds and accept and

10:38

love and appreciate and forgive the person you're

10:40

seeing in the mirror and be able to

10:42

be with your own thoughts and your emotions

10:45

and say, I accept myself,

10:47

I forgive myself most things, I

10:49

forgive others in whatever way I need

10:51

to. and on

10:53

a journey of healing and wholeness.

10:55

And so I felt like I

10:57

was not whole. I felt

10:59

emotionally broken, spiritually broken,

11:01

and I was driven

11:03

to achieve, to fulfill

11:05

feeling better. Let

11:08

me find acceptance through sports,

11:10

accomplishment, goal setting, accomplishing those

11:12

goals. When that ended, I was

11:14

living on my sister's couch for about a

11:16

year and a half, broke and broken again, after

11:18

my football dream was over, my dad got

11:20

in the injury. And

11:22

I was financially broke,

11:25

living in student loan debt and

11:27

financial credit card debt, and

11:29

I was spiritually broken as

11:31

well, emotionally broken, psychologically broken. And

11:34

I didn't know how to love and accept myself,

11:36

and I was resentful of the world. This

11:38

show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, everybody.

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a little too much money on pickleball

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12:52

amazing about this part is you've already

12:54

gone through this unbelievable deal with your dad

12:56

and other stuff that we're going to

12:59

cover. But here you are with some

13:01

success. Yeah. You had some success

13:03

in sports and a potential real

13:05

career there. I'm wondering if before

13:07

that wrist injury, for those that

13:09

don't know Lewis's story, break your

13:11

wrist and it's over. I

13:14

don't know what that's like. I love playing sports

13:16

growing up, but I never had a future. What

13:19

is it like? What was that

13:21

like emotionally when again, your future

13:23

is, it's another shift

13:25

for you. Well, think

13:27

anytime you put your,

13:31

self -worth and your identity on

13:33

something you're doing in life

13:35

and that thing gets crushed or

13:37

you lose the job or

13:39

the marriage goes through whatever, your

13:43

life starts to crumble because that's your

13:45

identity. You put all your value and

13:47

your self -worth in this thing that you

13:49

were once doing and once good at

13:52

or once people identified you as and

13:54

now it's over so my self -worth

13:56

was over. And I also already had

13:58

a false sense of self -worth because I

14:00

had a a cocky ego that was

14:02

like, I can do anything in sports. But

14:05

inside, I didn't have the vulnerability or

14:07

the ability to sit with my emotions.

14:10

It was anger, it was resentment, it

14:12

was rage, and let me fuel

14:14

this into accomplishment. Let me will my

14:16

success and prove people wrong. I

14:18

think anytime we're creating from a space

14:20

of proving others wrong, doing

14:23

it out of a sense of

14:25

hurtness to get back or to prove

14:27

something, you're not creating

14:29

from a beautiful State a

14:31

beautiful energetic state and therefore you'll

14:33

always be left with some sense

14:35

of frustration and For me it

14:37

was devastating because of my identity

14:39

was wrapped in sports and pursuing

14:42

this dream when that was done

14:44

I went back to well, what

14:46

is my worth? I have no

14:48

value and I don't understand the

14:50

world at that time. I didn't

14:52

graduate college. I was just a

14:54

few credits shy and was 2007,

14:56

eight and nine. That timeframe economy

14:59

was kind of crashing the housing

15:01

crisis. And I was living on my sister's couch

15:03

for a year and a half. And I

15:05

was just, I was again,

15:07

financially bankrupt and spiritually bankrupt because

15:09

I put my value on

15:11

an identity that was broken. And

15:14

so now I had to figure out who am

15:16

I? Why am I alive? What's the point of

15:18

this life? Why am I here? I don't have

15:20

my dad as a backup anymore. My

15:22

sister's taking care of me for a period of

15:24

time, but eventually she's like, you either got to

15:27

pay rent or you got to get out. And

15:29

in a loving way, she let me stay for a

15:31

year and a half rent free. Wow. But

15:34

that was one of the greatest things that

15:36

someone could have done for me is she was

15:38

like, you got to leave or get a

15:40

pay. I'm not going to baby you anymore. I

15:42

was 25 year old man. Right. Right. And

15:45

that. You know, I did what any younger brother

15:47

would do. I went to my older brother and

15:49

said, hey, can I stage your place? And he's

15:51

like, you need to pay 250 bucks a month.

15:53

And for me, that felt like all the money

15:55

in the world at the time. But

15:58

it got me thinking in a different

16:00

and it made me focused on I have

16:02

to be so courageous to ask for

16:04

money. I have to develop skills. I have

16:06

to overcome fears and put myself out

16:08

there and start creating possibilities. And

16:10

so I'm finding mentors, I'm leaning on

16:12

people that I can learn from, people who've

16:14

already created something that I was inspired

16:16

by. And I'm trying to get coaching. I'm

16:19

trying to get coaching on how to overcome

16:21

my fears and develop skills that could be

16:23

monetizable. And I wasn't sure

16:25

if I was going to work at a

16:27

job or a career or started, I

16:29

had no clue anything about money. So

16:31

I was really afraid of it. And

16:34

kind of going back to your

16:36

question, like I felt emotionally insecure.

16:39

and I didn't have wholeness

16:41

within me and therefore I

16:43

was lonely. Love that. Because

16:45

loneliness I think is a

16:47

lack of wholeness. If

16:49

we feel we are

16:51

broken, something's off, we're

16:54

wounded or resentful, we're holding on

16:56

to anger, we're holding on to jealousy,

16:59

there's some type of wound

17:01

within us that is driving

17:03

us, that is causing us

17:05

to believe and then behave. in

17:08

accordance with that belief. And

17:10

if we're behaving based out of a

17:12

wound, I'm not enough, so I'm gonna prove them

17:14

wrong. My dad judged me

17:16

or whatever, or this person left me,

17:19

or they fired me, so I'm

17:21

unworthy. I'm gonna get a react out

17:23

of a state of a wounds. It's

17:25

just never gonna feel like you're at

17:27

home. And I think

17:29

feeling alone is like living within

17:32

yourself without a home. And that's the

17:34

scariest place to be. I'm in

17:36

my body, I'm in my soul, my

17:38

spirit, and I don't feel emotionally

17:40

safe with me. So let

17:42

me chase girls, chase money,

17:44

chase success, eat sugar, whatever

17:46

it is, drink alcohol, to

17:48

try to soothe the pain that

17:50

I'm feeling. And

17:53

after a while, that doesn't work. And

17:55

then let me make money. And if I

17:57

make money, now I have more opportunities to

17:59

cause pain on myself. but

18:01

still isolated the whole time. Isolated

18:03

and alone. I'm curious, because

18:06

your story is

18:08

so inspiring, I'm

18:11

curious some of the darkest thoughts

18:13

that you had. Because we're here in

18:15

the positive Lewis, because you truly

18:17

are. When I was a kid, yeah.

18:19

You had some tough stuff. I

18:21

would get sent to the principal's office

18:23

often. And one of

18:25

the reasons was because I was a

18:27

good kid in my heart, but I

18:29

behaved poorly. and I would cheat,

18:31

and I would steal, and I would lie, right?

18:33

So I would cheat on homework, I would cheat

18:35

on tests, I was really good at

18:38

not getting caught most the time. But

18:40

I would get caught sometimes in

18:42

school. And every time I get

18:44

sent to the principals, I just say, I wish

18:46

I were dead. I would just say it over

18:48

and over again, just kind of like it was

18:50

nothing. I don't wanna be here,

18:52

I wish I were dead. So I would

18:54

say these things out loud, and I would

18:56

speak these things out loud. And whenever we

18:58

speak something into existence, If we

19:00

aren't able to catch ourselves or someone's

19:03

not able to be an interruption to supporting

19:05

us to getting back on track, we

19:07

will bring this into fruition in some way.

19:09

Maybe not death, but something will cause

19:11

a lot of pain. Did that manifest for

19:13

you that way? Yeah, I never thought

19:15

about like actually hurting myself in that way,

19:18

but I lived with darkness inside of

19:20

me most of my childhood. it

19:23

felt like death inside of me.

19:25

You know, I wasn't out of

19:27

my body or my brain, like,

19:29

never went there physically. But

19:32

it was a constant beat up,

19:34

a constant insecurity, a constant, you're

19:36

an idiot, you're dumb, you're not enough,

19:38

self -talk. And that self -talk

19:40

is very lonely feeling. And so

19:42

powerful. When you don't have, even if

19:45

you have everyone else around you

19:47

saying, we love you, you're amazing, you're

19:49

powerful, you're beautiful. It

19:52

doesn't matter if the world is speaking positivity

19:54

into you, if you're speaking negativity and you

19:56

don't believe it and receive it. Well, I've

19:58

said a billion times, you know, we are

20:00

the voice we listen to most. Exactly. And

20:02

so that loneliness is a lack of healing,

20:04

a lack of wholeness. And when

20:06

we're chasing something or we're running

20:08

away from something, we're not able to

20:10

confront the thing that is causing

20:12

us the most pain. Yeah. We're trying

20:14

to avoid the pain. Yeah. And

20:16

for years, when I hit 30, I

20:18

had all these moments in my

20:20

life and relationships and business and friendships

20:22

that were falling apart. And

20:25

for a long time, I could get

20:27

away with success or the money I

20:29

was making as a mask. But

20:31

then when everything started to fall

20:33

apart 12 years ago, I was

20:35

like, oh, I'm the person at the

20:37

root of all of these relationships. And so

20:39

let me start to reflect and see

20:42

why is my ego driving

20:44

my life into the ground when

20:46

I thought it was accomplishing the

20:48

results. Yeah. And that's

20:51

when the healing journey and the

20:53

self -reflection and the true, you

20:56

know, and it didn't happen overnight, but

20:58

the journey of healing and - How

21:00

much therapy did you do? I've

21:02

done a lot of, a lot of

21:04

it. And I still do it today, not

21:07

because I think I need it, because

21:09

I want to prevent it from happening in

21:11

the future. I love to prevent maintenance,

21:13

yeah. So, you know, once every two months,

21:15

they'll do a session. And I'm talking

21:17

to my coach about what are the 50,

21:19

60, 70 year old men that you

21:21

coach struggle with? What are

21:23

the big problems that they

21:25

cause? You know, they

21:27

have affairs, they do this, they do that, they

21:29

don't take care of their health. And so there's

21:31

a lot of these other challenges. So

21:33

I'm thinking preventative emotional care.

21:35

And how can I stay

21:38

on top of my mindset,

21:40

my emotions, and just

21:42

making sure I'm staying in alignment.

21:44

It's more of like maintenance. Love

21:46

that. I think shame is the

21:48

most underrated enemy in the world.

21:50

I don't think we even realize it

21:52

sometime and I'm in therapy right

21:54

now and one of the things

21:56

that I'm learning is I've been

21:58

carrying so much shame and couldn't identify

22:01

it properly. So

22:03

Bernie Brown, I think she's the

22:05

gold standard on shame. So two things

22:07

to set this, here's what she

22:09

said. She said, shame is the intensely

22:11

painful feeling or experience of believing

22:13

that we are flawed and therefore

22:15

unworthy of love and belonging. Something we've

22:18

experienced, done or failed to

22:20

do, makes us unworthy of

22:22

connection. And then she said this,

22:25

we cannot grow when we

22:27

are in shame. We

22:30

can't use shame to

22:32

change ourselves or

22:34

others. Now, that's

22:36

a 90 -minute conversation on just the last

22:38

part of it, the changing others. Some of

22:40

us who are controllers and we don't

22:42

realize it, you're parenting, oh boy. I

22:44

mean, I've confessed so much to

22:47

my teenage kids over the last several months, you

22:49

know? And honestly, when you try to parent and

22:51

you realize you're trying to, and it's out of

22:53

shame. But look at the way you've lost. That

22:56

has nothing to do with it. That's

22:58

just weightlifting. The emotional weight. has allowed you

23:00

to release the physical weight. Oh, that's

23:02

interesting. The shame of, let me eat more,

23:04

let me drink more, let me not

23:06

take care of me because I don't believe

23:08

I'm deserving of health. Yeah, that's right.

23:10

I'm not lovable, so let me mask it.

23:12

Maybe it's not the main thing you're

23:14

thinking, but the first thing I notice

23:16

of you is you have a different energy and

23:18

the weight is a reflection of that. It's interesting

23:20

that you say that because I truly thought

23:22

about talking to you beforehand. We didn't have as

23:24

much time, but I And it

23:26

wasn't something specific, but I wanted to say

23:29

to you, hey, listen, if I ever gave

23:31

you bad energy in previous interviews, I want

23:33

you to know something. I didn't know this,

23:35

this, and this. And I'm not - That's what

23:37

you were thinking? I wanted

23:39

to confess it. Interesting. I

23:41

don't know that you even noticed it. No, I noticed

23:43

a shift in you. That's my I'm not taking anything

23:45

personally when you were being mean to me in the

23:47

past. Yeah, right. No, you were mean. No, it would

23:50

have never been that. No, but you have a different

23:52

energy. You a different energy about your presence. think so.

23:54

It's a way of being. Yes. Can I tell you

23:56

what it is? Because it's a part of this question.

23:58

Please. It

24:00

is a release of

24:02

control and a acceptance

24:04

of actually being okay

24:06

feeling what I need

24:08

to feel. Yeah, and

24:11

you're not judging yourself

24:13

anymore. That's right. Or judging

24:15

others. Because when you judge yourself, you

24:17

judge everyone else. Yes, it is a...

24:19

I'm feeling sad today. Why

24:21

am I feeling sad? I'm

24:24

feeling shame, right? Because of this or

24:26

whatever. So I love how he turned it

24:28

on me. This is actually great. It's

24:30

a much better conversation. But the reason I

24:32

read those quotes is you've been very

24:34

public that you were sexually abused. By a

24:36

man that I didn't know. Yeah, I

24:38

was five years old. It was one of

24:40

my first core memories, was being sexually

24:42

abused by a man that I didn't know.

24:44

He was probably in his late teens.

24:46

It was the babysitter's son. And

24:48

it was, I had

24:50

it in my, it was

24:52

kind of like a movie playing in my

24:54

mind almost every single day for 25

24:56

years until I finally opened up about it.

24:58

Yeah. Literally no one knew? No

25:00

one knew, no one knew. Not even your parents?

25:02

My parents didn't, I didn't tell anyone because I was

25:04

so ashamed. If anyone knew this

25:06

about me, why would anyone love or accept me?

25:08

Yeah, I can't even imagine bearing that. And I

25:10

also didn't, you know, I feel like the world

25:13

has changed a lot in the last, I guess,

25:15

five to seven years, but. in

25:17

many ways, but there was

25:19

never anyone talking about being

25:21

sexually, as a boy, I

25:23

didn't see athletes on TV

25:25

saying I was sexually abused

25:27

or this happened to me.

25:30

Now you're seeing it a lot in the last

25:32

five to seven years. People are opening up and

25:34

feeling more comfortable talking about it or just sharing

25:36

about their experience. But growing up, I didn't

25:38

see that. And also, I didn't have

25:40

any friends. And I just wanted kids

25:42

to accept me. So when I started

25:45

playing sports, and like being

25:47

on sports teams in my, you know, eight,

25:49

nine, 10 in my early teens, I

25:51

was a very like loving, playful kid also.

25:53

And I just would like put my arm around

25:55

like guys I had to play with and

25:57

they would push me off and they'd be like,

25:59

don't gay, don't be a girl, don't be

26:01

a this, sissy, whatever it is. They just say

26:03

these words as if it was bad to

26:06

be affectionate. And so I was

26:08

like, oh, I can't even put my arm

26:10

around a guy. And without them making fun

26:12

of me, if they knew this happened to

26:14

me, it No one would speak to me.

26:16

Especially back in that era. No one. It

26:18

would be like, you're, yeah, you're weak, you're

26:20

not enough, whatever. And so I

26:22

just buried it. And it was

26:24

just like a memory that was constantly

26:26

replaying this movie, this scene every

26:28

day. And it was just. Yeah. terrify

26:30

me. So when you went through your therapy journey

26:32

and since then the reason I bring up shame

26:34

is I think a lot of people have different

26:36

levels of shame. I didn't raise my kids the

26:39

way I wanted to. It could be a

26:41

variety of things here. a lot of shame. My

26:43

question to you is how have you

26:45

got on the other side? How'd you shake

26:47

the shame? Does it still pop up? That

26:50

doesn't pop up for

26:52

me anymore because I

26:54

have done so much.

26:58

I've spoken it out of me. That's

27:00

good where I feel like if you're

27:02

not able to speak about something that thing

27:04

has power over you So it's lost

27:07

power because you shared it's so much. I

27:09

mean, I don't wanted to I have

27:11

talked about it often as it's a part

27:13

of a story that I share That

27:15

I don't want to say it's as simple

27:17

as like taking a sip of water

27:19

and feeling comfortable But I've released that trauma

27:22

from my body I've forgiven myself. I've

27:24

forgiven the person I've never seen the person

27:26

but in my mind I've forgiven that

27:28

and I've created a new meaning from that

27:30

memory. You were talking about our beliefs

27:32

early on. The

27:34

meaning I gave that memory

27:36

in that moment in time

27:38

was, I'm someone who people

27:40

can abuse, people can take

27:42

advantage of, people can discard. I'm

27:45

beneath people, I'm not respectable. All these

27:47

things that my little brain started to

27:49

form, these beliefs, along with all these

27:51

other things that happened that backed this

27:53

belief, that I was able to find

27:55

the backing of the belief. And

27:58

so therefore I lived in accordance with

28:00

my behaviors. But I was

28:02

always like conflicted because I wanted to behave better.

28:04

And so that's one of the reasons why I left

28:06

home. Cause I was like, I want to start just

28:08

being around better kids. I want to start doing better

28:10

things and shifting this behavior. How much role did they

28:13

play? You've mentioned that group twice and I want to

28:15

follow up on that. How much influence

28:17

did those better kids have on you? Given

28:19

all the brokenness and all the pain you're

28:21

dealing with. I mean, listen, kids. Kids

28:24

at all levels couldn't be like me and I were this

28:26

and that. It's not like they were perfect or whatever, but that

28:28

environment. I mean, it was a Christian school. It

28:30

was away from home. It was very

28:32

strict. But I needed boundaries.

28:35

I needed structure because I didn't

28:37

have it. I was living in

28:39

fear. I wasn't living in structure.

28:42

And the structure created a sense of safety with

28:44

me. Even, you know, we had a dress

28:46

code and you had to like get up early

28:48

and clean your room. I was living in

28:50

a dorm with boys. It was like, You had

28:52

to do all these things that weren't enjoyable,

28:54

but at the same time, the structure created a

28:56

sense of safety and it created a sense

28:58

of discipline and accomplishment within me. So I could

29:00

see myself growing. How much did the faith

29:03

in Bible stuff stick? I think

29:05

it stuck a lot. Although I think it,

29:07

you know, in my 20s, once I like

29:09

left and my dad and not having no

29:11

money and I got injured, I was kind

29:13

of like, all right, well, let me just

29:15

go explore life, you know? And so I

29:17

think I went away from it a little

29:19

bit, but it was always Underneath me. It

29:22

was like the the concept was always there

29:24

given your story. I find it I find

29:26

it really inspiring Lewis that you you've gotten

29:28

to a place to get married I mean

29:30

you've been through a lot and then you

29:32

come out the other side you're very successful

29:34

but I'm curious, and you know the data

29:36

on how marriage, there's so much data out

29:39

there that marriage is better for you financially,

29:41

it's got health benefits, all this, but

29:43

you're still brand new. As

29:46

we said here today, you're six weeks in.

29:48

Without getting you in trouble, how

29:51

is life

29:53

different actually being

29:55

married? Well,

29:57

I felt very

30:00

whole. before getting

30:02

married. And I think that's why

30:04

this relationship feels different for me, because

30:06

I used to get into relationships

30:08

from a broken place, from a place

30:10

of lack, scarcity,

30:13

or desire, temptation. Like I

30:15

was driven by the wrong

30:17

things. Where in this relationship,

30:19

I did the reverse of everything intentionally

30:21

from all the previous relationships. And I'd

30:23

been in like five or six kind

30:25

of long -term relationships since I was 18.

30:28

And it always ended poorly. And

30:30

it ended with a lot of stress and

30:32

anxiety and me feeling like I was people pleasing.

30:35

And I'm sure it ended poorly for them

30:37

as well. There's nothing wrong about them. We just

30:39

weren't the right fit. And at

30:41

the end of the last relationship when it

30:43

ended, I was just like, I am doing

30:45

everything differently. And I was, I ended that

30:47

relationship in therapy. Every relationship I was in

30:49

ended in therapy. And the women never wanted

30:51

to go, which I don't know if the

30:53

ladies here are like, if you

30:55

ever, you know, I was like, what women would

30:57

do anything for their man to go to therapy with

30:59

them? But for some reason, I chose the only

31:01

women that didn't want to go to therapy. And

31:04

it was, again, I attracted based on a

31:06

wound and it's all good. But

31:08

it ended in therapy and I was like, I'm going

31:10

to keep doing therapy because I want to continue to

31:12

feel like I'm healing and I'm not repeating this pattern.

31:15

And so with Martha, I was

31:17

very intentional about the dating

31:19

phase and not being sexually intimate

31:21

for many, many months and

31:23

saying, this is not happening. You

31:26

know, it's not something I wanted to do. I

31:28

wanted to get to know her. without

31:30

having chemicals bonding us and confusing

31:32

my judgment. So I wanted

31:35

to truly see her values, her

31:37

beliefs and how our behaviors matched or

31:39

didn't match those beliefs. So I

31:41

was able to make more of a conscious decision

31:43

from hanging out to dating, dating to committed

31:45

boyfriend and girlfriend. I guess if that's what you

31:47

can do in your forties, you know? And

31:50

then from there into an engagement

31:52

and engagement into marriage. And it

31:54

was about really seeing her heart and

31:56

her character and her doing the same for

31:58

me. And there was a couple things

32:00

I said before we made a commitment to

32:02

dating exclusively, which was, one,

32:04

I'm not getting into a relationship unless

32:07

you're open to doing therapy with

32:09

me at the beginning. Good

32:11

for you. And that was probably the

32:13

best thing that we did together. Sure. Not

32:16

because something was wrong, but because

32:18

I wanted to accelerate the process of

32:20

making sure we were in alignment. with

32:22

our values, with our vision, with

32:24

our lifestyle, and just making

32:26

sure that we are on board with

32:28

who each other are values -wise. I'm so

32:30

happy for you, can I say that?

32:32

Thank you, thank you. I'm genuinely, I'm

32:34

happy for me. I'm coming up on

32:36

27 years and I am a proponent

32:38

of marriage. It is hard. You have

32:41

just entered into the most difficult relationship

32:43

that you'll ever be in. Is it

32:45

more difficult than being a parent? Yeah.

32:47

Really? Yeah. It is the hardest relationship

32:49

because it requires so much. sacrifice

32:52

and it requires so

32:54

much service. And in

32:56

our humanness, we also

32:58

have pain. And

33:00

so it is difficult, but it is worthwhile.

33:03

It's like saying a marathon is really

33:05

hard. No one's griping about it. A marathoner

33:07

will go, this will be the hardest

33:09

thing you ever do. Or triathlon. It's

33:12

absolutely worth it. it's rewarding

33:14

hard and there's suffering hard. Well,

33:16

it's both. A true

33:18

marriage, there will be time where you suffer. It's life.

33:20

100%. It's life. But it's your interpretation of

33:22

the heart. Yeah, but it is, but

33:24

I would say, that's right, and I'm agreeing

33:27

with you, but I'm saying that I

33:29

want people to hear this. This is a

33:31

fun conversation because the root word for

33:33

passion means to suffer. You

33:35

know, when Mel Gibson calls it the passion

33:37

of the Christ, he actually got it right,

33:39

whether you'd like Mel or not, but that's

33:41

the fact. And so this idea that I'm

33:43

willing to suffer. Yeah, I'm willing to go

33:45

through any type of pain, but I'm not

33:47

willing to give up who I am for

33:49

that pain. No. Or people please again. Don't

33:51

have to do that. Or change myself to

33:53

make someone happy or discount myself. you ever

33:55

see your wife go through a medical scare,

33:57

I promise you you're going to suffer. Oh

33:59

yeah, no. Someone hurts your wife. It's not

34:01

easy. You're going to suffer. That's

34:03

what I'm getting at. I agree with that. So

34:05

the point is it'll be the hardest thing. But

34:08

harder than raising kids, yes,

34:11

because the kids are going to come and go. That's

34:14

the freaky thing nobody really prepares you for.

34:16

Like I've got one in college now, right?

34:18

And the first time you drop your kid

34:20

off at college will be one of the

34:22

most devastating things you face. Because you realize

34:24

now this chapter is, it's done. And

34:27

now there's a new chapter where the relationship

34:29

changes. Having said that, I'm really, really happy for

34:31

you. Here's the question on marriage. Last

34:33

question on marriage. How, and

34:36

it may be too soon, how has it changed

34:38

your perspective as a professional? I

34:41

mean, I was just calling, I just called her right

34:43

before I even came on here. And I was just

34:45

telling her how inspired I am to be here and

34:47

to be around, you know, the Ramsey community. And

34:49

she was like, oh, I asked Dave about like marriage

34:51

and money and this and this. Cause we've done all

34:53

these like kind of prep work still, but I also,

34:55

I want to be a lifelong learner. It's not like,

34:57

oh, we figured out a system and then we just

34:59

stick to it for life. I think it's always evolving.

35:02

And I just want to keep learning. How do I improve? How

35:04

do I grow? How do I, how do I get better at

35:06

something? But what it's giving me

35:08

is like, I was

35:10

very self -identity before in terms of

35:12

like, this is my business and my

35:14

money and I built this and

35:16

all these things. And over the

35:18

last year as we're like, oh, we're getting married. This

35:20

is happening. This is

35:23

ours. And for me,

35:25

it feels like a different level of

35:27

trust and partnership than I've never

35:29

had. It's only been six weeks, but

35:31

it's been the conversation for a

35:33

year before getting officially married. And

35:35

I think the spiritual marriage of

35:37

it has made me feel like, oh,

35:39

we are in this together. Even

35:42

though we were in it together before, but

35:44

now I feel like, oh,

35:46

things are logistically moving and spiritually

35:48

aligning to where I feel

35:50

like we are gonna be able

35:52

to create magic at a

35:54

different level. And really magnify

35:56

both of our talents together, which

35:58

I'm excited about. So. I'm grateful,

36:01

Lewis, that you've shared a lot

36:03

of personal stuff today. I'm

36:05

driving towards something that I wanted to

36:07

have a conversation with you on, because you

36:09

and I both have been able to

36:11

sit with people and great people and interview

36:14

and talk to them and learn about

36:16

them. I'm just curious

36:18

what your thought is

36:20

on this. I just

36:22

think that all of

36:24

us experience pain, but

36:26

through either the grace

36:28

of God or maybe

36:30

upbringing and maybe DNA.

36:34

Some people can just get through

36:36

the pain and some people can't.

36:38

And that is not said from

36:40

a place of judgment. Some

36:42

people have been through some horrific pain. And

36:44

it just, they don't ever recover from

36:46

it. As a guy who's very

36:48

successful, a

36:50

guy who has interviewed a lot of successful

36:52

people, you're known, the school of

36:55

greatness. I mean, you've branded it. Do

36:57

you think the successful

36:59

people that have endured

37:02

great pain, you being one of them and

37:04

have come out of it. Is

37:06

there something beyond those three factors that I just

37:08

mentioned? I think it's a combination of all of them,

37:10

like you said, but I also think I don't

37:12

think I would be able to have peace without the

37:14

still small voice inside of me. God's

37:17

voice inside of me. 100 % agree.

37:19

Saying that that feels off, don't do

37:21

that. This feels like a calling, even

37:23

though I'm demanding all of your courage

37:25

and it's scary and it's terrifying, like

37:28

that's where you need to go. like

37:30

lean into that, have that

37:32

tough conversation, like get out of

37:34

this relationship, dive into this thing, like

37:36

pursue this purpose. that still small

37:38

voice? Was it there in the early

37:40

days of abuse? It was always

37:43

there. Yeah, for me, it was always

37:45

there. It was very small at

37:47

times. It was very quiet at times.

37:50

But anytime I could get to a place

37:52

of like some type of peaceful state

37:54

and I could really like reflect and look

37:56

in. I had the intuition

37:58

to be like, okay, this doesn't feel right. It

38:00

might take me a while to get out of something,

38:02

and I have extreme pain. So I was like,

38:04

okay. So you reminded, you did

38:06

this thing, and now don't do that again.

38:08

It would take me a while to learn

38:10

some signs, but that voice has always guided

38:13

me. So what's the message to people right

38:15

now that are feeling like I can't get

38:17

through this pain and get on the other

38:19

side? I think it's a combination of... you

38:22

know, asking for help is not weakness. It's

38:24

wisdom and find support. I was really

38:27

good at finding support and leaning on

38:29

coaches, mentors, or just people older and

38:31

wiser than me and saying, please help

38:33

me, you know. Can you think back

38:35

to a moment where either a coach

38:37

or another man could have been a

38:39

woman. I don't want to make it,

38:41

you know, male or female, but a

38:44

person who spoke life over you. Many

38:46

people, I mean, one of them. Give

38:48

me an instance that you look back

38:50

and go, kept me

38:52

going. Many

38:54

of them, but the first one is

38:56

a woman actually that was my track and

38:58

field coach. High

39:01

school? College. College. Yeah, college. It

39:03

was always a dream of mine to be

39:05

an all -American athlete. And probably one of

39:07

the reasons was one of my early memories

39:09

was watching football, college football with my dad

39:11

and remembering hearing about like certain athletes being

39:13

all -Americans. And I was just like, oh, that's

39:16

what I want to be one day. Right.

39:18

And it was always a dream of mine.

39:20

And I thought it was gonna happen in

39:22

football. But

39:24

my senior year,

39:27

I got injured and then I went back

39:29

for my fifth year senior year and

39:31

that's when my dad got the injury. And

39:34

I also, when my dad got

39:36

in the car accident, the next day I played

39:38

a game and I broke three ribs. So

39:41

I thought my season was over. I

39:43

didn't know if my dad was dead or alive and

39:45

it was very scary. My senior

39:47

year, I didn't make it

39:49

in football, my original senior year. I

39:51

ended up making it my fifth year

39:53

senior year, but before that, I

39:56

was running track in

39:58

college my freshman year.

40:02

And this track coach was just

40:04

a great inspiration. My name's

40:06

Ann Pearson. And

40:08

I went back to my senior year. I

40:10

didn't run track for a couple of years

40:12

and I called her because I was sad that

40:14

I didn't make it all American as a

40:16

football. I said, do you think it's possible

40:18

that I could be an All -American in track?

40:21

In the Decathlon, which I'd never done

40:23

before. But I was a sprinter,

40:26

a high jumper, like I could

40:28

do a lot of events well,

40:30

but I wasn't great at one event.

40:32

I said, do you think I

40:34

could do this? And this was Christmas

40:36

time going into kind of like

40:38

the winter, spring season. So six months

40:40

away is the national championship of

40:42

track and field. And I go,

40:44

do you think it's possible? She said, if you

40:46

listen to everything I say from this moment on,

40:48

this phone call, you have a chance.

40:51

And that's all I needed to hear. She's

40:53

like, you have to cut out all sugar. You

40:55

have to really do this. We're going to be

40:57

doing two a days. Training starts now. We have

40:59

no time to waste. And

41:01

I just listened to everything she said. You

41:04

tell me, jump on. I say, how high?

41:06

I do everything. I lost

41:08

30 pounds within six months. Wow. I

41:10

was up at six AM every morning

41:12

training with her, then training with the

41:14

track team in the afternoon. I

41:16

was obsessed by being

41:19

coachable and listening to her.

41:22

And she wrote it all the way through,

41:24

getting me to the national championships. And it came

41:26

to the second day of the decathlon where

41:28

I almost failed. And she was able

41:30

to get me through the pole vault, which I

41:32

almost failed on. And all the

41:34

way to the very last event, which is

41:36

the mile, the 1500 actually. and

41:38

I was in ninth place,

41:41

and I needed to be top eight to make

41:43

the All -American team. And she just

41:45

gave me so much guidance, wisdom, and

41:48

emotional support that I would

41:50

not have accomplished that goal,

41:52

that dream, without her guiding

41:54

me. And so for me, that

41:56

was a beautiful moment. But I have so

41:58

many from after that, but she was one of

42:00

them. I love that. I love the transfer

42:02

of belief from a great coach. I love that.

42:04

Okay, let's go over here. I'm

42:07

Alex. Your story is

42:09

very inspiring, especially kind of being a

42:11

voice for men who often find

42:13

trouble having one. Our stories

42:15

actually align in very many ways. And

42:17

as a men's fitness coach, my

42:20

clients tend to come to me

42:22

for the knowledge that I have and

42:24

my journey. But over the years,

42:26

I've sort of understood that it's not

42:28

necessarily what I know, but my

42:30

experiences and errors, and that's actually more

42:32

beneficial. Because you're

42:34

going through this journey and you've actually

42:37

made a ton of progress If

42:39

you had to go back through it

42:41

one more time and still arrive

42:43

at the same result Would you do

42:45

anything differently? What would you

42:47

do differently and for somebody who might

42:49

just be starting their healing journey? What

42:52

sort of advice would you have for like the

42:54

first place to start? I mean

42:56

what I would do something if I

42:58

could do something different I would heal

43:00

sooner I would definitely start healing sooner

43:02

and start going to, you

43:04

know, getting a coach or a therapist

43:06

or a spiritual guide or someone to

43:09

give, be able to give me feedback

43:11

for me where I could process past

43:13

wounds and pains and beliefs that were

43:15

keeping me trapped emotionally. Cause I

43:17

just made a lot of decisions. My

43:19

behaviors were based on beliefs out

43:21

of pain. And that's not always

43:24

a bad thing. I think it's like, Oh, there's someone.

43:26

something hurting in the world. You didn't want to

43:28

solve a problem. You want to help a

43:30

charity because there is a lack or a brokenness

43:32

in a thing in society. But

43:34

I felt broken. I felt wounded. And

43:38

anytime we create from

43:40

a wound, we're creating from

43:42

scarcity, not from wholeness. And

43:44

it doesn't mean we can't achieve great

43:46

things or make a lot of money or

43:48

have success. But the success

43:50

for me never made me feel whole. And

43:53

so you still have to solve that problem.

43:55

I wish I could have done it sooner, started

43:58

the healing journey and stayed consistent with

44:00

it. But for me, there

44:02

was a moment when the healing occurred

44:04

for me. It was the craziest feeling

44:06

because it was like I was learning,

44:08

I was reflecting, I was integrating, I

44:11

was learning, reflecting, integrating, but I still

44:13

felt emotionally trapped inside of me. It

44:15

wasn't like I felt free. For

44:17

whatever reason, after the six

44:19

months, something all connected

44:21

either in my nervous system or my

44:23

spirit or my body, it all kind

44:25

of connected. This whole time

44:27

I had a chest pain and throat

44:29

pain. It felt like I couldn't

44:32

speak. And I don't know if you ever felt

44:34

this. And I had like this ball of pain

44:36

in my chest for most of this previous relationship. And

44:39

it wasn't leaving. And in one moment when I

44:41

was with the therapist and the coach, felt

44:44

it literally an explosion in my

44:46

chest like in my body and it

44:49

felt like a rush of water

44:51

was going all throughout my whole body

44:53

and I thought I hurt myself

44:55

for a second because it was the

44:57

weirdest sensation it was like something

44:59

broke and I felt a rush through

45:02

my body and that was four

45:04

years ago and I haven't felt chest

45:06

pain since then doesn't mean I

45:08

haven't had like stressful moments or like

45:10

frustration but that like core wound,

45:12

something broke open physically in my body

45:15

where I felt freedom. And

45:17

it's been now my responsibility to

45:19

continue to do that healing journey to

45:21

stay in that free state because

45:23

it could be easy for me to

45:25

start thinking and believing something again

45:28

and then behaving in alignment with that

45:30

belief. But I'm continuing

45:32

to choose a new story and

45:34

a new truth and reaffirm

45:36

it through my behaviors and then

45:38

see the fruit of that

45:41

behavior on a daily basis. So

45:44

healing earlier would have been something that would

45:46

have been amazing, but it's also part of my

45:48

story. So it's not, it's okay.

45:51

It's what I needed at this time. So good. I'm

45:53

thinking of something my therapist helped me work through

45:55

recently. He's like, you just got to drop

45:57

one word in your sentence. Just drop

45:59

the word not. Instead

46:01

of I am not enough. Oh, I

46:03

am enough. Yeah. Simple. Simple stuff, but

46:05

like that's that that reframing love that.

46:07

So here's a here's an analogy for

46:09

you Have you ever heard Wayne Dyer?

46:11

Oh, yeah, old school and you guys

46:13

know what I mean? He's famous for

46:15

PBS, you know, right? I

46:18

never got to meet him I never saw this

46:20

stuff, but I watch his stuff now I never

46:22

saw him live But he has this he used

46:24

to tell a story on stage that I watched

46:26

in a YouTube video that he would bring an

46:28

orange out on his speech And you ever watched

46:30

no tell me this is great. So

46:32

He would come out on stage and he

46:34

would say, you know, if I'm, I

46:36

have this orange and when you squeeze this

46:38

orange, what comes out of an orange when

46:40

you squeeze it? What do you have? Orange

46:43

juice. Orange juice, right? Yeah.

46:45

Does apple juice come out of an

46:47

orange? No. Grape juice come out of

46:49

an orange? Watermelon juice come out of

46:51

an orange? It's orange juice and he

46:53

would say, because that's what's inside. What's

46:56

inside of an orange, when you squeeze it and

46:58

you apply pressure, it's orange juice. And

47:01

he would say, you know, when you're

47:03

applied pressure in your life, what

47:05

comes out of you is whatever's inside

47:07

of you. So if you

47:09

have a wound and you have resentment, anger,

47:11

jealousy, frustration, that's gonna come

47:13

out when you're applied pressure. It doesn't

47:15

mean you might not be like a

47:17

loving, positive person, but someone hits that trigger

47:20

point inside of you and they apply

47:22

pressure in the negative way. I

47:24

used to react with anger. I used

47:26

to react with defensiveness, like let's fight. You

47:28

know, I felt like someone was trying to take advantage

47:30

of me and abuse me. My nervous system is saying,

47:32

fight. Like, let's do

47:34

this. And it never

47:36

felt good. Like, it felt rage, it felt

47:38

powerful, but it didn't feel empowering. It

47:41

didn't feel peaceful. So good. And something else

47:43

had power over me to react in

47:45

that way. And so, again, if

47:48

I could have been on a healing

47:50

journey sooner, What could have

47:52

come out of me more in instances in

47:54

intimacy and relationships and friendships and business

47:56

and family is more love more peace more

47:58

harmony as opposed to resentment defensiveness Gardeness,

48:00

and I think you just have a richer

48:03

life when you can heal what's inside

48:05

The new book is make money easy so

48:07

interesting to see you come out with

48:09

a money book and here we sit in

48:11

a building that Dave Ramsey built on

48:13

money principles So much

48:15

good stuff in the book, but I want to

48:17

ask about mindset around money. Because again, you

48:19

have made a lot of money. You've interviewed a

48:21

lot of people who make money. Is

48:24

there in your mind a mindset that

48:27

keeps people broke or keeps them from

48:29

being able to make the money that

48:31

they possibly could? There's, I think, two

48:33

different ways of living. There's

48:35

a scarcity mindset and there's

48:37

an abundance mindset. And the

48:39

scarcity mindset lives in

48:42

victimhood, not enoughness, and let

48:44

me take, whereas the

48:46

abundance mindset lives in the belief

48:48

and the framework that gratitude

48:50

and generosity are the gateway to

48:53

abundance, is the gateway to

48:55

living a richer life, a more

48:57

fulfilling, loving, joyful, peaceful, harmonious

48:59

life, is being in a state

49:01

of gratitude and generosity. When

49:04

we're broke financially

49:06

and broke emotionally,

49:08

spiritually, It's the

49:10

worst place to live. No one wants

49:12

to have zero money, debt, and then have

49:14

no purpose and no self -love. It's like

49:16

the lowest level of living. The

49:19

only way I think to get

49:21

out of that is go from helplessness

49:23

to helpfulness. It's like, how can

49:25

I start to be helpful? As opposed

49:27

to being a victim and say,

49:29

oh, the world is against me. It's

49:31

like, how can I be helpful

49:33

instead of just hopeless? And

49:35

so that is about gratitude

49:37

and generosity. And when you're broke,

49:40

I remember being broke on my sister's couch for a year

49:42

and a half. I didn't have any money, so I couldn't

49:44

give people money. But I had to ask myself,

49:46

what can I give? I can give my time. I

49:49

can be an active listener. I can give my

49:51

presence. I can look someone in the eyes. I

49:53

can give a compliment. I can acknowledge

49:55

people. I can be resourceful and I can

49:58

connect people to help them. How

50:00

can I use my

50:02

talents my skills,

50:04

my resourcefulness to

50:06

be generous without taking.

50:10

And once I started to be more

50:12

grateful for my state of being,

50:14

appreciating my sister for letting me stay

50:16

on her couch, appreciating someone giving

50:18

me 30 minutes of their time, and

50:20

being in gratitude and then being

50:22

generous as well. That's when

50:24

I started to feel more free. I started to

50:26

feel more confident. I started to feel like, oh,

50:28

life is, there's possibilities

50:30

all around me. So I

50:32

went from financially broke and

50:35

spiritually broke to financially broke

50:37

and spiritually more abundant, feeling

50:39

richer emotionally. As

50:41

I started to build that

50:43

momentum of gratitude and generosity, overcoming

50:46

fears, developing skills, I started to make

50:48

a lot of money over the next

50:50

three to five years. Went from not

50:52

having any money to within five years

50:54

having millions in the bank. But

50:56

something happened where I started to

50:59

go back into scarcity emotionally. So

51:01

I had financial security, let's say

51:03

for a few years or something, right?

51:06

But I went into a scarcity

51:08

mindset. I went into let me

51:10

hoard, let me not spend, let

51:13

me, what, because I don't want to go back to being broke

51:15

again. Let me, now I'm

51:17

getting defensive again. I feel like people

51:19

are out to get me. Let me

51:22

be less generous and less grateful and

51:24

more frustrated. And that was almost the

51:26

worst place to be in, almost as

51:28

bad as broke financially and spiritually. because

51:30

I had money and I thought it

51:32

was supposed to make me happier, but it

51:34

made me even more extreme in my frustrations

51:36

and anger. What was inside

51:38

of me came out even bigger. The

51:41

money didn't heal me, it revealed more

51:43

of me. And it

51:45

revealed the darker parts

51:47

of me until I started

51:49

to heal that emotional

51:51

journey. Then I was like, that's why

51:53

I wrote this book. Cause I was like, how can I

51:55

get to a place of financial peace? Which is what

51:57

you guys talk about. Obviously making

51:59

money, budgeting, this, investing,

52:01

having everything set up for retirement,

52:04

financial peace. But if I

52:06

can't create emotional peace, then I'm still

52:08

a prisoner. Emotionally, psychologically,

52:10

spiritually. So that

52:12

needs wholeness. I need to feel emotionally

52:14

whole. And that means I need

52:16

to be grateful for what I'm at

52:19

and generous. And I also need

52:21

to continue growing myself. And

52:23

that has been the process for me. This

52:25

book is not about Spreadsheets

52:27

and charts and budgeting and investing.

52:29

It's about how do you create

52:31

emotional freedom? So that you

52:33

can expand your heart and soul's

52:35

capacity to earn and receive more

52:37

Give more and feel good about

52:39

the whole process. Yeah. All right.

52:41

Let's go right back here Hi,

52:44

I miss you. Thank you for

52:46

being here. You just had a

52:48

birthday recently. Yeah this week How

52:50

old? 42. Oh, he's

52:52

getting there. Yeah, I noticed a

52:54

little more gray. Yeah

52:58

It looks like wisdom. It is, yeah.

53:02

I've followed your journey for a while. It's

53:04

been very inspiring. Thanks. It's helped me get

53:06

through a lot of really hard times and

53:08

find my own calling. I

53:11

actually just launched my own coaching business

53:13

in November. Congrats. Thank you. Heal her

53:15

holistic, so helping women through a lot

53:17

of trauma, chronic illness, basically everything we've

53:19

pretty much touched on today. beautiful. of

53:21

shame. That's beautiful. So I'm taking a

53:23

lot of notes, but I'm having a

53:25

lot of resistance in my nervous system

53:27

to stepping into my calling, even though

53:29

I was in first grade standing in

53:31

my room and I just had this

53:33

gut feeling. you're gonna have a big

53:35

impact on the world one day. And

53:37

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm

53:39

in first grade. Like, you know, shoved

53:41

it down and it kept coming back

53:43

up and life kept redirecting me. And

53:46

through a lot of my healing, the

53:48

adversity I'd been through, I've come to

53:50

a place of surrender and gratefulness where

53:52

it didn't happen to me, it happened

53:54

for them, meaning the people that I'm

53:57

gonna inspire one day and help with

53:59

my stories, very similar to you. Again,

54:02

I'm just having that resistance in my

54:04

nervous system, even though I know this

54:06

is my purpose. This is my calling.

54:08

This is why these things happened. Do

54:10

you have any advice? You have a

54:12

resistance in like launching or being more

54:15

successful or like getting more clients or

54:17

getting bigger. Yeah. So you

54:19

have a feeling that you're supposed to

54:21

do this, but then you don't feel

54:23

emotionally safe in doing it still. Is

54:25

that what I'm hearing you say? Like your nervous system is scared.

54:28

Yeah. My nervous system is like, no, no,

54:30

no. What's the thing you're more afraid of?

54:32

Failing or succeeding? I think

54:34

succeeding. Why

54:36

do you think you're afraid

54:38

of changing lives, making more money,

54:40

and becoming successful in the

54:42

eyes of yourself and others? Because

54:45

it is not aligned

54:47

with my family of origin

54:49

story. So you have

54:51

a belief system that is,

54:54

and your behaviors are mimicking those beliefs. They're

54:56

in alignment with the belief. It's not

54:58

aligned with your the way you're

55:00

raised or what your parents think or your

55:02

grandparents or the family or it's not what

55:04

you're supposed to do. And so therefore you're

55:06

behaving in alignment. So you're doing exactly what

55:08

your beliefs are wanting you to do. So

55:11

the only way you can start behaving

55:13

in a different way is to start

55:15

shifting and believing in a different way

55:18

and start rewiring those beliefs, which for

55:20

me, which was more around,

55:22

am I deserving of love? I

55:24

knew I wanted to be successful. I

55:27

wasn't afraid of success. I was afraid

55:29

of And

55:31

if someone knew me, they really

55:33

saw into me, they wouldn't

55:35

love me. And I was afraid

55:37

of that. And I would

55:39

sabotage relationships in sense of choosing

55:41

certain people that weren't emotionally

55:43

available for me also, right? And

55:46

it took me

55:48

rewiring through exercises, workshops,

55:50

therapy, coaching, whatever

55:52

I could learn. to

55:55

start to believe something

55:57

else was possible. And

55:59

again, I never saw marriage as a good

56:01

thing. I saw it as like only causing pain.

56:04

And so I didn't believe it was possible

56:06

for me, but I craved

56:08

intimacy and connection, right? But I

56:10

just suffered with it. And

56:13

it wasn't until I was able

56:15

to essentially, you know, put a photo

56:17

of my eight year old self

56:19

on my phone and have as weird

56:21

as it sounds, a conversation with

56:23

that little boy inside of me every

56:26

single time I saw the phone

56:28

100 times a day and started to

56:30

say, I got you, you're safe.

56:32

I'm the adult in the room. I'm

56:34

taking care of us now. Thank

56:36

you for getting us here. I

56:39

got you now. Not

56:41

worrying about what my parents

56:43

think, creating boundaries with family,

56:45

friends, business colleagues, and creating

56:47

a boundary with myself. Emotionally

56:51

and spiritually, I was able to

56:53

start mending and forgiving myself. And

56:55

one of the best practices I

56:57

have done, again, this might be a

56:59

little weird here, is look myself in the

57:01

mirror and say, I forgive you. And

57:04

truly look yourself in the eyes,

57:06

and it might take months, a

57:08

year. It may not happen the first time

57:10

you try this. And it's

57:12

gotta be integrated into the

57:14

whole holistic, Process of healing essentially

57:16

what you're trying to teach women it

57:18

sounds like that's what I was thinking you've

57:20

got to be integrating this in your

57:22

life and Once you continue to do that

57:24

personally you're going to be able to

57:27

thrive but right now you're blocked Internally because

57:29

you don't believe You'll be accepted or

57:31

your family's gonna say you can't hang out

57:33

with whatever it is. I'm not sure

57:35

what it is Are you saying that family's

57:37

gonna judge you if you do this

57:39

thing? I'm trying to figure that out. I

57:41

think it's more of a survival thing

57:43

of I had to be who they wanted

57:45

me to be. And I'm from a

57:47

small town. There's a lot of scarcity mindset.

57:49

And no one's able to go beyond

57:51

a certain level. That's right. Yeah. And no

57:53

one's able to leave the town or

57:55

they're thinking about it. And no one's able

57:57

to have a certain amount of success

57:59

or we're going to bring them back down.

58:01

That's right. And I had to leave

58:03

my hometown. Yeah. and essentially have, you know,

58:05

no friends and leave my family to

58:07

go create a new identity. I'm not saying

58:09

that's what you need to do. But

58:12

you're going to need to have, you're going

58:14

to get to, if you want to have a

58:16

beautiful relationship with friends, family and community, you

58:18

could also get to have the most courageous, honest

58:20

conversation you've ever had with each one of

58:22

them. And saying, you know me

58:24

as this person, Missy, right? Isn't Missy?

58:26

You know me as Missy from childhood.

58:29

And now I want to step into

58:31

an upgraded Missy. Melissa.

58:33

My real name. Melissa. See,

58:36

she likes that. Now she's Melissa. That's interesting.

58:38

It's my real name. And everyone calls you

58:40

Missy at home. I've always been Missy. And

58:42

so you're no longer Missy. That's a belief

58:44

system. Not that it's not fun or cute

58:46

or whatever, and it's like fine. But if

58:48

that's your identity is I'm Missy, where people

58:50

think of me this way, and I'm the

58:52

good daughter, and I'm the good sister, and

58:54

I'm the good friend, and I don't ruffle

58:56

the feathers, then you're going to stay in

58:58

a safe, comfortable place. And

59:00

it sounds like the girl in you

59:02

is screaming. Even

59:04

though you look put together, it sounds like

59:07

inside of you, the girl is screaming at

59:09

you and you're trying to keep it quiet

59:11

and you're trying to keep it calm and

59:13

you're trying to say, you

59:15

know, I'm going to set up my business and structure

59:17

it a certain way, but I just haven't been able to

59:19

get that first client. The little girl is screaming, Melissa,

59:23

go for it. And

59:25

who cares if we fail, but this is what

59:27

you feel called to do. And so

59:29

you're shutting down the girl in

59:31

you who wants to pursue something, to

59:33

feel safe and fit in and

59:35

protected within your family of origin, it

59:38

sounds like. And you know all

59:40

this already. I'm not saying something you

59:42

don't already know. This is not

59:44

some new concept because you've studied this

59:46

without me, you studied this on

59:48

your own. And my,

59:51

you know, you're exactly where you need to

59:53

be right now, the synchronicity of this conversation

59:55

happening. And it's, Every

59:58

day you wait, you

1:00:00

are limiting the girl and you

1:00:02

the potential to make a difference in

1:00:05

people's lives by trying to please

1:00:07

a few people in your life or

1:00:09

fit in in a certain way. And

1:00:11

it's gonna require you having the most courage

1:00:14

you've ever had in your life to sit

1:00:16

down and have real conversations with the people

1:00:18

in your life that you feel have been

1:00:20

limiting you. And maybe they haven't even been

1:00:22

limiting you, it might be your own sense

1:00:24

of it. Like just sit

1:00:26

down with him say this is what I

1:00:28

want to do and I want to know you're

1:00:30

gonna accept me and love me no matter

1:00:32

what I do They may accept you or not,

1:00:34

but you having that conversation will set you

1:00:36

free And that would be my my reflection for

1:00:38

you. That's good And I have to have

1:00:40

one thing here because you're still trying to figure

1:00:42

it out. I Lewis

1:00:44

I've had the pleasure of coaching so many

1:00:47

people on the air and one of the

1:00:49

things that I found when someone would say

1:00:51

they were afraid to launch to start is

1:00:53

one of the fears is rejection Yeah, of

1:00:55

course because you've come through a lot of

1:00:57

pain Which scarred you yeah stained you? labeled

1:01:00

you okay, and When you're launching

1:01:02

a coaching business you are the

1:01:04

business mm -hmm Lewis and I

1:01:06

get this when we launch a

1:01:09

book We're not selling a copier

1:01:11

If somebody doesn't like my show,

1:01:13

or doesn't like your book, or

1:01:15

they give a negative review, it's

1:01:17

really personal to us. I'm

1:01:19

saying this to say I understand the parallel

1:01:21

here, and I think part of what you're

1:01:23

dealing with is the previous pain you've had. If

1:01:26

you put yourself out as a coach, and

1:01:28

the first three women you talk to, they don't

1:01:30

sign up with you, I think you're afraid

1:01:32

that it's gonna validate. And

1:01:34

what you got to remember is you're

1:01:36

gonna have to get through through some nose

1:01:38

in order to get to the yes

1:01:41

is the actual women that you so profoundly

1:01:43

said are the women That you went

1:01:45

through pain for them because you made it

1:01:47

out, but so I hope that encourages

1:01:49

you I think some of that is that

1:01:51

I also feel like you you think

1:01:53

you're an imposter because you haven't done it

1:01:55

yourself. 100, but what it

1:01:57

is. So you're thinking, I want to help

1:02:00

women. I want to help people like

1:02:02

heal themselves and holistically improve and have a

1:02:04

healthier journey. But I know deep

1:02:06

down I haven't done this for me because I'm afraid

1:02:08

to talk to my mom or I'm afraid to

1:02:10

talk to my sister or my dad or whoever it

1:02:12

is. And my grandparents are that have put me

1:02:14

in a box and I'm afraid to do it myself.

1:02:16

So how can I coach someone if I can't

1:02:18

do it for me yet? And so I think once

1:02:20

you do that, you'll set yourself free to have

1:02:23

more courage to see if this is something you want

1:02:25

to pursue. So right now you've just

1:02:27

been thinking about it probably for years and you

1:02:29

haven't done it. And that is

1:02:31

like stuck block energy. And so my

1:02:33

recommendation would be go as fast

1:02:35

as you can into having these courageous

1:02:37

conversations with everyone that you feel

1:02:39

worried about their opinion. Do it tonight,

1:02:42

schedule it this weekend, whatever it

1:02:44

is. Just a quick poll around the

1:02:46

room. How many of you with

1:02:48

a hearty yes believe that Melissa can

1:02:50

win as a coach? Yes. Yes. It

1:02:53

wasn't very hearty, but we'll take it. Yes.

1:02:55

I believe you can win if you're willing

1:02:57

to. take the courageous steps. That's exactly right.

1:02:59

So good. If you stay in fear and

1:03:01

anxiety, you win. So good. And thanks for

1:03:03

being vulnerable with us so far. Hey, I

1:03:05

just want to share just one of the

1:03:08

things that I took away. We create these

1:03:10

conversations so that you can listen, watch, and

1:03:12

learn and take something away and apply it.

1:03:14

And Lewis, you said something early. It's

1:03:16

a great reminder for me. And this is my

1:03:18

challenge to you. I'm going to remember that I need

1:03:20

to continue to ask for help. I don't have

1:03:22

it all together. And when I

1:03:24

can be vulnerable enough, to

1:03:26

ask for help, it's then when I get

1:03:28

what I need to be powerful, because I

1:03:31

don't have it. So ask

1:03:33

for help. It's the most underrated question

1:03:35

in the world. Will you help

1:03:37

me? And I've always found that good

1:03:39

people and healthy people will say

1:03:41

yes. Hey, if you enjoyed this

1:03:43

conversation, make sure to let us know by liking

1:03:45

and subscribing. Also, if you want

1:03:47

to join us in studio for a

1:03:49

live recording, check out the link in

1:03:51

the show notes for up to date

1:03:53

info on our upcoming guests, dates, and

1:03:55

opportunities. Well, friends, I know

1:03:57

you got a lot out of this. As

1:03:59

I did, would you join me in thanking Lewis

1:04:02

for his time. Thank you Lewis. Thank you.

1:04:06

Thank you.