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Thanks for listening to the

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frontline audio cast, the enhanced

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audio version of our documentaries.

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We also produce a podcast, the

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frontline dispatch, available

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wherever you get your podcasts. Right

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now, here is the audio cast of

0:16

the Rise and Fall of Terrorogram.

0:39

news after reports of a

0:41

shooting multiple people ruthlessly gunned

0:43

down. Police have also discovered

0:46

a lengthy manifesto. In collaboration

0:48

with Pro Publica, reporters A.C.

0:50

Thompson and James Bantler investigate

0:53

the global rise of a

0:55

dangerous movement. This is a

0:57

very militant, aggressive, dangerous community.

1:00

The story that we unraveled

1:02

was frankly very disturbing. What's

1:04

interesting about this collective is

1:07

how transnational it is. Are

1:09

they radicalized online? He was a

1:11

very active user of all these

1:14

troubles. And promoted violence. Here was

1:16

someone that they successfully indoctrinated and

1:18

encouraged to kill. He'd gone out

1:20

and done it. Now on frontline,

1:23

the rise and fall of terrorogram.

1:25

You have to ask a question.

1:27

What have we reaped as a

1:30

result of this? What new whirlwind

1:32

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2:56

Old Town in Bratislava, Slovakia.

2:58

I was here to investigate

3:01

a deadly attack that had

3:03

terrorized this Central European city.

3:06

It happened on the evening

3:08

of October 12th, 2022. That

3:11

night, on Somoska Street, three

3:13

friends sat talking outside a

3:16

gay bar they frequented. To

3:18

Plurin was a free and

3:20

safe harbor for me. Many

3:23

people found their second family

3:25

there, especially those not out

3:28

to their families. Rod Katoxia

3:30

Rova was catching up with

3:33

her friends, Matouche and Yurai.

3:35

Outside on the street, when

3:38

the weather was good, there

3:40

were three benches to sit

3:43

on, but no table. Yurai

3:45

was on the other side

3:48

of the bench. A tush

3:50

lit one up. He then

3:53

leaned his head on my

3:55

shoulder. Complete silence set in.

4:00

Rodka saw another person standing

4:02

in the shadows, not far from

4:05

the bar. That was about the

4:07

time when the guy appeared. He

4:09

was just standing there. First

4:11

we thought he was standing

4:13

there because he was maybe

4:15

also queer. Just too shy to

4:18

come in. We even said hello

4:20

to him. His name was

4:22

Yuri Krychik. He was 19

4:24

years old. He was an

4:26

intelligent student. Special prosecutor Daniel Lipsich.

4:29

He was very good in English.

4:31

He was usually alone. It

4:33

was not suspicious to anybody

4:35

at that time. But earlier

4:37

that day, Krijik had posted a

4:39

hate-filled manifesto online, full of false

4:42

narratives and racist conspiracy theories.

4:44

He wrote that white people

4:46

were facing a critical situation

4:48

and that Jews and gay people

4:50

should be eliminated. He was dressed

4:53

in a black hoodie. The

4:55

guy must have stood there

4:57

for about 40 minutes. Crich

4:59

pulled out a gun and aimed

5:01

directly at the three friends. He

5:04

was shooting from this side.

5:06

There was no chance. I

5:08

heard this roaring sound of

5:10

nine shots that blended into one.

5:12

The only thing I know is

5:14

that Ery fell down just in

5:17

front of us. And Matouch,

5:19

as he was shot, fell

5:21

against me, taking us both

5:23

down. I must have blacked out

5:25

for a couple seconds. No one

5:28

was around. Crychik fired twice

5:30

more into the bodies on

5:32

the ground. Then he fled

5:34

into the night. A news report

5:36

says a 19-year-old man who shot

5:38

dead two people is said

5:40

to have hated homosexuals. And

5:42

police are still looking for

5:44

the attacker. The prosecutor says he

5:47

was determined to carry out the

5:49

act, which has the hallmarks

5:51

of a terrorist crime. We

5:53

did not know what the

5:55

motive was. We knew it was

5:58

a murder. called Blood, but of

6:00

course we didn't have the

6:02

shooter who was at large

6:04

moving around the largest center

6:06

of Bratislava. A news report police

6:09

confirmed that he had no accomplice.

6:11

Slovak officials believed no one

6:13

else was involved in the

6:15

shooting. The Krychik was a

6:17

so-called lone wolf. But his manifesto

6:19

contained clues that in fact he'd

6:22

been radicalized by a global

6:24

community of online extremist to

6:26

commit an act of 21st

6:28

century terror. The

6:30

Bratislava attack is important because

6:32

it's a pure example of

6:34

how influencers today can encourage

6:36

and inspire other people to

6:38

go out and commit acts

6:41

of terrorism. It explains and

6:43

shows how terrorism works today.

6:45

For the past year I've

6:47

been reporting on the dark

6:49

corners of the internet and

6:51

social media that have given

6:53

rise to a series of

6:55

deadly far-right terror attacks. The

6:58

ecosystem is designed such that

7:00

anyone can pop off and

7:02

create a very high impact

7:04

damaging attack on society, the

7:06

drop of a hat. With

7:08

a team of reporters from

7:10

frontline and pro-publica, my colleague

7:12

James Bannler and I have

7:14

been investigating the anonymous and

7:17

loosely moderated platforms where extremists

7:19

have been able to share

7:21

propaganda and terrorist instructional material.

7:23

It was allowing for really

7:25

kind of unfiltered... an unregulated

7:27

hate and extremism to kind

7:29

of run rampant. And the

7:31

transnational terrorist network behind the

7:34

Brata Slava attack, known as

7:36

the Terrogram Collective. These people

7:38

on the messaging in social

7:40

media app telegram were trying

7:42

to stir other people to

7:44

commit acts of incredible violence

7:46

and to spark a race

7:48

war, which they hope would

7:50

lead to a white ethno

7:53

state rising from the ashes.

7:55

Text reads, the rise and

7:57

fall of terrogram. Men

8:01

carrying torches chanting. You

8:03

will not replace us.

8:05

You will not replace

8:07

us. You will not

8:09

replace us. You will

8:11

not replace us. You

8:14

will not. Correspondent AC

8:16

Thompson. I've been documenting

8:18

hate groups in America

8:20

for frontline and pro-publica

8:22

for almost a decade.

8:25

Back in August

8:27

2017, I was

8:30

in Charlottesville, Virginia,

8:32

when white supremacist

8:34

made their biggest

8:36

public show of

8:38

force in years.

8:40

It was incredibly

8:42

chaotic and disturbing.

8:44

The rally descended

8:46

into racist, anti-Semitic

8:48

violence. Close

8:56

into demonstrators. A young

8:59

counter-protester was murdered. Far-right

9:01

extremists were arrested, criminally

9:03

prosecuted, and sued in

9:05

civil courts. We are

9:07

here today to announce

9:09

the arrest of four

9:11

members of the militant

9:13

white supremacist group. For

9:15

the movement, Charlottesville was

9:17

pivotal. One of the

9:20

things that happened. is

9:22

the movement kind of

9:24

splintered. And so there

9:26

was a faction of

9:28

the movement that said

9:30

we're going underground. We're

9:32

not going to meet

9:34

in person anymore. We're

9:36

going to engage in

9:38

terrorism and we're going

9:41

to communicate with each

9:43

other through these online

9:45

platforms. We can win

9:47

a secret clandestine battle

9:49

and we can try

9:51

to bring down the

9:53

government. extremists were increasingly

9:55

promoting a violent ideology

9:57

called militant accelerationism. Military

10:00

accelerationism is a terroristic ideology

10:02

that is rooted in notions

10:04

of white supremacy, that looks

10:06

to collapse the societal order,

10:08

and encourage race rights across

10:10

Western countries in particular. Milo

10:12

Comaford is an extremism expert.

10:15

This is really about encouraging

10:17

violence, polarization, and racial animus

10:19

that can lead to a

10:21

war and a conflict that

10:23

can be used as the

10:25

basis for forming a white

10:27

ethnostate. In

10:30

2019, this growing

10:32

accelerationist movement would

10:34

be galvanized by

10:36

a horrific terrorist

10:38

attack on the

10:41

other side of

10:43

the world. What

10:45

happened in Christchurch

10:47

New Zealand would

10:49

provide a grim

10:51

template. Leaderless, decentralized

10:53

terrorism performed for

10:56

an online audience.

11:03

Friday prayers

11:05

the Al

11:07

Noor mosque

11:09

in Christchurch

11:11

a hub

11:13

for practicing

11:15

Muslims on

11:17

New Zealand

11:19

South Island

11:21

March 15

11:23

it was

11:25

beautiful Sunday

11:27

I go

11:29

Al Noor

11:31

mosque for

11:33

my worshiping

11:35

Teno Atachochu

11:37

and there

11:39

is my

11:42

regular mosque

11:44

to go

11:46

every Friday

11:48

Himam started

11:50

this speech

11:52

when I

11:54

hear the

11:56

Big Bang

11:58

sound. And

12:02

I see myself

12:04

front of, you

12:06

know, that weapon,

12:08

and then I

12:10

see the smokes

12:12

come out, and

12:15

then I feel

12:17

the bullets in

12:19

my mouth. He

12:21

starts walking towards

12:23

us. And serial

12:25

shooting, pop-pap-pap-pap-pap-pap, sounds

12:27

like that. I

12:31

see like he's

12:34

enjoying, you know,

12:36

it's like a

12:38

video game. He's

12:41

just focused what

12:43

he's doing. While

12:46

I see in

12:48

the bullets entering

12:51

my legs, I

12:53

said, oh. I

12:55

think this is

12:58

how you're feeling

13:00

when you get

13:03

shot. Bang, bang,

13:05

you know, just...

13:08

It seems like

13:10

never stop. All

13:12

suddenly he lived.

13:15

The mosque is

13:17

full of smoke.

13:20

Imam Gamal Fuda.

13:22

It went very

13:25

quiet. I

13:27

heard somebody by the door

13:30

saying, I know you are

13:32

there, come out. The police

13:34

is here. He pulled my

13:37

hands. I wished that he

13:39

covered, he had covered my

13:42

eyes. Because I saw here

13:44

on that corner, three meters

13:47

along this side and high

13:49

people on top of each

13:52

other and bleeding. And

13:55

when that cornered about that door, I

13:57

saw people over there. That

14:00

is the real massacre

14:02

I have seen in

14:04

my life now. We're

14:07

interrupting normal programming with

14:09

some breaking news after

14:11

reports of a shooting

14:13

in Central Christchurch. 44

14:16

people were killed in

14:18

the attack at the

14:20

Alnor mosque. Dozens were

14:22

injured. At a second

14:24

mosque, seven more were

14:27

shot dead. Police arrested

14:29

28-year-old Australian Brent and

14:31

Tarrant. The gunman eventually

14:33

pleaded guilty to the

14:35

murder of 51 people

14:38

and the attempted murder

14:40

of another 40. He

14:42

was given multiple life

14:44

sentences. In the aftermath

14:46

of the attacks, a

14:49

government inquiry, known as

14:51

the Royal Commission, concluded

14:53

that he was a

14:55

lone actor. But

14:58

recently published research from the

15:00

University of Auckland found that

15:02

Brent and Tarrant had been

15:04

part of a global community

15:06

of online extremists for many

15:08

years. We've got five years

15:10

of him speaking candidly, online,

15:12

so being able to understand

15:14

what drove him, be able

15:16

to see him speaking with,

15:18

you know, completely unguardedly in

15:20

his environment where he kind

15:22

of felt safe. Researchers Chris

15:24

Wilson and Michael Givolski uncovered

15:26

more than 400 post they

15:28

linked to Tarrant. including threats

15:30

against Muslims, all scraped from

15:32

the online platform for Chan.

15:34

So this is for Chan,

15:36

a simple image-based bulletin board

15:38

where anyone can post comments

15:40

and share images. There's a

15:42

whole bunch of different boards

15:44

that have got different types

15:46

of things. The most famous

15:48

far-right one is the politically

15:50

incorrect board, which we found

15:52

Tarenton. Politically incorrect was known

15:54

as the poll board. a

15:56

home for people with extremist

15:58

opinions. As with all four...

16:00

Chan boards, every post is

16:02

anonymous. This is just showing

16:04

how thorough we've been with

16:06

our multi-factor authentication rights. They

16:08

linked the post to Tarrant

16:10

by scouring his known online

16:12

history, cross-referencing thousands of posts,

16:14

a digital trail of old

16:16

user names, spelling quirks, and

16:18

odd word usages. This email

16:20

address that he used in

16:22

2013 is the same. address

16:24

that he used right before

16:26

his attack. The researchers compared

16:28

these posts to an account

16:30

of Terence travels compiled by

16:32

the Royal Commission, which uncovered

16:34

that he had traveled to

16:36

more than 50 countries in

16:38

the five years before the

16:40

attack, apparently alone. They matched

16:42

Terence's itinerary to posts on

16:45

the poll board. The flags

16:47

on politically incorrect were a

16:49

feature that was added to,

16:51

I guess, promote nationalism. When

16:53

he's in these different countries,

16:55

we can see that the

16:57

IP address comes up with

16:59

those flags. And so the

17:01

flags and geography line up

17:03

with the dates that the

17:05

Royal Commission said he was

17:07

in these places. That's right.

17:09

So all of the posts

17:11

that were showing, they correspond

17:13

to the countries that he

17:15

was visiting at the time.

17:17

As he traveled, Tarent stayed

17:19

in touch with the pole

17:21

community on 4chan, which was

17:23

increasingly becoming an echo chamber

17:25

of hate. The

17:29

history of Fortune is an interesting

17:31

one in that it developed initially

17:33

and very popular within kind of

17:36

anime culture. Pete Simi is a

17:38

sociologist who studies violent extremists and

17:40

how they distribute propaganda online. It's

17:43

very rudimentary in many respects. They're

17:45

not glossy. They don't look very

17:47

digitally sophisticated. They look kind of

17:50

old school in a way, almost

17:52

like the old bulletin boards from

17:54

the early 80s. 4chan

17:57

was started in 2003 by

17:59

15 old entrepreneur Chris Poole

18:01

as a space to communicate

18:03

with his friends. Unexpectedly, it

18:05

became a phenomenon. There are

18:07

very few places now where

18:10

you can go and not

18:12

have an idea to be

18:14

completely anonymous and say and

18:16

say whatever you'd like. Fortune

18:18

became known as a meme

18:20

factory, but with anonymity and

18:22

little moderation, the content grew

18:25

increasingly edgy. Despite some efforts

18:27

to clean up the site.

18:29

By the time Chris Pool

18:31

sold Fourchan in 2015, it

18:33

had become a popular destination

18:35

for racists and extremists. One

18:37

of the things that started

18:40

to happen on Fourchan is

18:42

a kind of accumulation of

18:44

neo-Nazi white supremacist, misogynistic, extreme,

18:46

hateful tenets and trends. The

18:48

people are going in. It's

18:50

humor. There are memes, they're

18:53

getting all these ideas, anti-Semitism,

18:55

Islamophobia, ideas of white genocide,

18:57

and so on, all in

18:59

just little snippets that are

19:01

really, really easy to take

19:03

in, and maybe without even

19:05

noticing that they are developing

19:08

these ideas that are racist

19:10

and potentially violent. Terence's path

19:12

over the years appears to

19:14

have followed that process of

19:16

radicalization. The researchers found post

19:18

from 2015. after Dylan Roof

19:20

killed nine black members of

19:23

a church in Charleston. These

19:25

are posts from Tarrant date

19:27

at June 2015, and they're

19:29

in response to somebody who

19:31

posted Dylan Roof's manifesto. They

19:33

are in the wrong country

19:36

perpetuating the destruction of the

19:38

white race. For Tarrant, it

19:40

was a turning point. The

19:42

big moments on the four-chan

19:44

poll board are the moments

19:46

where there's a massive attack.

19:48

Fortune is a place where

19:51

when people go out and

19:53

commit acts of white supremacist

19:55

terrorism, they are celebrated and

19:57

lauded and hailed as heroes.

19:59

So, you should not be

20:01

surprised. if that kind of

20:03

adulation doesn't spawn more people

20:06

seeking that fame. The current

20:08

owner of Four Chan, Hiraluki

20:10

Nishamora, did not respond to

20:12

interview requests. The site's administrators

20:14

have said that any threat

20:16

of violence or terrorist acts

20:19

violates their rules and that

20:21

they've banned users who've done

20:23

so. In

20:29

August 2017, Breton Tarrant moved

20:31

to Dunedin, a city on

20:33

the coast of New Zealand's

20:35

South Island. It was here

20:37

that he plotted his accelerationist

20:40

attack, leaving clues of his

20:42

intent on Fourchan. He let

20:44

everybody know that he was

20:46

going to commit an attack,

20:48

at least twice. In two

20:50

threads in March and August

20:53

2018, he speaks angrily about

20:55

the spread of people of

20:57

color of color. And the

20:59

supposed spread of mosques in

21:01

New Zealand? Somebody posts matches

21:03

to indicate, hey, this would

21:06

be a good idea, to

21:08

burn these mosques down, and

21:10

Tarrant comes in and says

21:12

soon. The truth of the

21:14

matter is, he was carrying

21:16

out the aspirations of the

21:19

online community. So he wasn't

21:21

a lone actor. He was

21:23

a guy who was reflecting

21:25

the values of his community.

21:29

As Tarrant prepared, he wrote

21:32

a 74-page manifesto full of

21:34

falsehoods and racist ideology. He

21:36

called it the Great Replacement,

21:38

after a conspiracy theory about

21:41

a supposed plot to wipe

21:43

out the white race. And

21:45

then came March 15th. making

21:53

news after reports of a

21:55

shooting. An anti-Muslim terror attack

21:57

in New Zealand. Multiple people

21:59

ruthlessly gunned down. Under his

22:01

name. Online is a racist

22:03

manifesto claim. Tarrant posted links

22:06

to his manifesto on a

22:08

site similar to 4chan, called

22:10

8chan. In a disturbing innovation,

22:12

he also live streamed the

22:14

attacks on Facebook, filmed like

22:16

a first-person shooter game. He

22:18

used every available means of

22:21

dissemination of his ideas that

22:23

he could mainstream social media

22:25

accounts. I used this new

22:27

technology, the GoPro camera, to

22:29

make a live stream, which

22:31

would mean that the propaganda

22:33

was almost impossible to stop

22:35

and would continue for years

22:38

to come. The Christchurch attack

22:40

convulsed New Zealand. In the

22:42

aftermath, Prime Minister Jacinda Arden

22:44

issued an edict. He may

22:46

have sought notoriety, but we

22:48

in New Zealand will give

22:50

him nothing. Not even his

22:52

name. His manifesto was banned.

22:55

The attack video made illegal

22:57

to possess. They were trying

22:59

to stop Tarent's toxic propaganda

23:01

and erase his name. But

23:03

online, Tarent was becoming an

23:05

icon. His race is propaganda

23:07

was spreading. The manifesto was

23:09

posted, quoted, and shared worldwide.

23:12

Facebook had quickly taken down

23:14

the live stream. but new

23:16

links were put up on

23:18

4chan and 8chan. It was

23:20

one of the most widely

23:22

shared pieces of content of

23:24

that nature ever in the

23:26

history of the internet. Matt

23:29

Kreiner is an expert on

23:31

violent extremism and has studied

23:33

how Christchurch became a model

23:35

for future attacks. Keith constructed

23:37

a very clear formula for

23:39

others to follow in his

23:41

footsteps because it's ultimately what

23:43

he wanted. He wanted others

23:46

to see what he was

23:48

doing as a cold action.

23:51

By the time of the

23:53

Christchurch attacks, many far-right extremists

23:55

had migrated from 4chan to

23:57

8chan. See who created this

23:59

platform with almost no content

24:01

moderation. ProPublica reporter James Bandler.

24:03

Well, this platform that it

24:05

becomes sort of a free-for-all

24:08

for some of the ugliest

24:10

speech. And we reached out

24:12

to Frederick Brennan and went

24:14

and saw him. Frederick Brennan

24:16

had started A. Chan in

24:18

2013. He was born with

24:20

a congenital condition affecting his

24:22

bone structure. It's a very

24:24

rare disease, so there's not

24:26

much funding in resource. What's

24:28

the disease called? Osteogenesis and

24:30

Perfecta. Early on, Brennan developed

24:33

a passion for computers and

24:35

coding and discovered chat sites,

24:37

including 4chan. I became really

24:39

interested in how 4chan was

24:41

set up technically. It was

24:43

fun for me because I,

24:45

especially as a kid, was

24:47

very different from everyone else.

24:49

As a teenager on 4chan.

24:51

Brennan used the platform's signature

24:53

anonymity to make outrageous and

24:55

offensive statements. One of the

24:58

ways that I rebelled was

25:00

that. I became like this

25:02

very fringe advocate for the

25:04

Nazi movement of eugenics. To

25:06

kill people like myself, yes.

25:08

It made me feel really

25:10

smart to be like 15,

25:12

16, right? And to be

25:14

saying things that these adults

25:16

don't know how to even

25:18

conceive... of somebody who was

25:20

disabled telling them, people like

25:23

me shouldn't exist. Have you

25:25

changed your views about eugenics

25:27

and about? Yes, of course.

25:29

Yeah, I'm definitely not a

25:31

believer in eugenics anymore, no,

25:33

that the teenage folly. In

25:35

2013, inspired by Ford Chan,

25:37

Brennan created his own site.

25:39

I thought that it would

25:41

be kind of like me.

25:43

the next stage of four

25:45

trans evolution. on HAN to

25:48

have even less content moderation

25:50

than 4chan. See, on 4chan,

25:52

the website's administrators were still

25:54

in charge of all the

25:56

boards. So even the poll,

25:58

like politics board, on 4chan,

26:00

was not just like a

26:02

Nazi haven. But on HAN,

26:04

since it was all user-created,

26:06

we didn't have a pool

26:08

board until like a user

26:10

who wanted one created it.

26:13

Well, that guy, he named

26:15

his user account Hyle. So

26:17

what do you think his

26:19

boat? Yes. Yes. Yes. And

26:21

you know, he very clearly

26:23

made it a Nazi struggle.

26:25

You know. You're basically asking

26:27

people who are already in

26:29

the site to police? Yes.

26:31

Yes. How does that work?

26:33

Not very well. Within two

26:35

years, amid a wave of

26:38

new users and mounting costs,

26:40

he sold A. Chan. But

26:42

he continued working with the

26:44

new owners, until a falling

26:46

out led him to cut

26:48

ties altogether. You know, I

26:50

don't know what the future

26:52

holds, but... Then in 2019,

26:54

I was just starting to

26:56

get over it, and I

26:58

was thinking at that time,

27:00

okay, these guys are nothing.

27:03

You know what I mean?

27:05

Like, HN is not that

27:07

big of a site. Fortune

27:09

is still the main one.

27:11

It's just going to slowly

27:13

die and sink into relevance.

27:15

That's what I thought, very

27:17

foolishly. And then the shooters

27:19

start using it. There's

27:22

been a shooting at a

27:25

synagogue in Poway. White-nail shooter

27:27

entered with an AR-style rifle

27:29

and opened fire. Six shots,

27:31

a pause, another burst. The

27:33

sheriff believes the weapon jammed

27:35

at that point. Just six

27:37

weeks after Brent and Taren

27:40

had posted his manifesto and

27:42

live stream on 8chan, the

27:44

first copycat attack near San

27:46

Diego, California. One woman was

27:48

killed, three other people wounded.

27:50

The gunman killed Lori Gilbert

27:53

Kay, a 60-year-old member of

27:55

the synagogue. and injured three

27:57

others, including an eight-year-old. The

27:59

suspected gunman is identified as

28:01

19-year-old John Ernest of San

28:03

Diego. He's a college student

28:05

with no criminal record. Worshippers

28:08

say he's stormed. There was

28:10

an enormous amount of police

28:12

activity. We parked our car

28:14

and I can remember talking

28:16

to a police officer. They

28:18

had mentioned another house and

28:21

I felt this relief. Thank

28:23

goodness. It's not, it's not

28:25

us. But that wasn't the

28:27

case. It was us. Authorities

28:32

began investigating the shooter's online

28:34

life. Police are reviewing an

28:37

open letter he posted online

28:39

slamming President Trump, the Jewish

28:41

faith, and conservatives. The 19-year-old

28:43

gunman bragged in his manifesto

28:45

about starting a mosque fire

28:48

in Escondito last month. This

28:50

is the mosque, and he

28:52

spray painted the name of

28:54

this. New Zealand shooter and

28:57

POL is from the A-chan

28:59

is politically incorrect. San Diego

29:01

District Attorney Summer Stephan prosecuted

29:03

earnest for the attack. What

29:06

happened is he first shot

29:08

right from outside to the

29:10

inside of the synagogue. He

29:12

struck Lori Gilbert Kay. He

29:15

went into a room where

29:17

there were a lot of

29:19

kids and began shooting, so

29:21

he was prepared to do

29:24

maximum damage. The suspect accused

29:26

of shooting four people killing

29:28

one of them. Including an

29:30

arson fire at a mosque

29:33

in Escondito. And numerous hate

29:35

crime allegations. Ernest eventually pleaded

29:37

guilty. He was sentenced to

29:39

life in prison without parole.

29:41

This is the first time

29:44

his father has spoken publicly

29:46

about his son. He loved

29:48

his family he had friends

29:50

He was a fantastic pianist

29:53

He was never a part

29:55

of any kind of a

29:57

hate group? I have to

29:59

ask it. Your family are

30:02

not anti-Semites. You're not racist

30:04

haters. Is that right? We

30:06

are not at all. He

30:08

was never exposed to that.

30:11

He, from us. Investigator said

30:13

the shooter was radicalized over

30:15

the course of about a

30:17

year on 8 Chan and

30:20

other sites. The entire process

30:22

of him becoming radicalized. appeared

30:24

to have happened online only,

30:26

taking someone who was a

30:29

4.4 student all the way

30:31

to a cold-hearted killer. Ernest's

30:33

father says his son started

30:35

out on mainstream platforms like

30:37

YouTube. Early on he was

30:40

a fan of conservative political

30:42

commentator Ben Shapiro, until suddenly

30:44

he turned against him. John

30:46

T. said that... Well, that's

30:49

a Jew. This guy is

30:51

hated. He's part of the

30:53

whole conspiracy in that I

30:55

don't listen to him anymore.

30:58

And for me, that was

31:00

such an abrupt change. It

31:02

is something that kind of

31:04

caught me off guard. And

31:07

then he moves to four

31:09

cham and eight cham. Yes,

31:11

John T. He did talk

31:13

to me a little bit

31:16

about Fort Chan. I had

31:18

heard about it, and then

31:20

I had also heard about

31:22

8 Chan. I knew that

31:25

that was something even darker.

31:27

But I did not quite

31:29

understand what it was all

31:31

about. In his manifesto, which

31:33

was posted on 8 Chan,

31:36

he wrote that Tarrant was

31:38

a catalyst for him. Did

31:40

he talk to you about

31:42

Tarrant? He

31:45

had mentioned Tarrant and the

31:47

heinous crime that Tarrant had

31:49

committed against the mosque. He

31:52

wanted to be very clear

31:54

that he supported what Tarrant

31:56

had done in the Christchurch

31:59

shooting. He gave no hint

32:01

that this is something that

32:03

he would like to do

32:06

as well. So he was

32:08

playing you in your mind?

32:10

At that point, I don't

32:13

know. I don't know how

32:15

this grows. It could be

32:17

that he was playing me.

32:20

In fact, I explicitly asked

32:22

him at one point about

32:24

violence and he said that

32:27

he would never resort to

32:29

violence. What prompted you to

32:31

ask him? about the possibility

32:34

that he would engage in

32:36

violence. Because so much violence

32:38

was associated with the people

32:41

that he seemed to be

32:43

honoring. This is when he

32:45

was arrested. It seemed like

32:48

he was really aspiring to

32:50

that mass killer. in less

32:52

than a month had downloaded

32:55

and searched the name of

32:57

the New Zealand shooter 104

32:59

times. Yes, he was hoping

33:02

he would do the same

33:04

as the New Zealand shooter

33:06

and inspire a horrible generation

33:09

of people that will also

33:11

kill. Three

33:23

months later another attack linked

33:26

to eight Chan this time

33:28

in El Paso At least

33:30

20 people dead more than

33:32

two dozen injured the wounded

33:34

ranging in age from two

33:36

years old to 82 years

33:38

old Moments before the mass

33:40

murder in El Paso the

33:42

suspect detailed his plans and

33:45

ideology in a post on

33:47

the internet forum Eight Chan

33:49

quickly removed the shooter's manifesto

33:51

as it had done after

33:53

San Diego, it was too

33:55

late. It had been copied

33:57

and would be widely reposted.

34:00

Christchurch had happened and that was

34:02

the first large one. Then in

34:05

San Diego. Then finally in El

34:07

Paso. Tonight the man who created

34:09

A-chan wants it shut down. A-chan's

34:12

founder Frederick Brannon decided enough was

34:14

enough. The current administrators of A-chan

34:16

don't care that this is happening.

34:19

He urged that the site he

34:21

founded be shut down. A-chan was

34:23

dropped by the companies that kept

34:26

it up and running on the

34:28

internet and soon went dark. But

34:33

it would be a short-lived

34:35

victory. You know, these white

34:37

supremacist groups adapt, right? It's

34:39

like, you take away their

34:41

toy, and they're not going

34:44

to just sit around and

34:46

do nothing. You know what

34:48

I mean? They're going to

34:50

try to find a new

34:53

platform. That new platform would

34:55

turn out to be telegram.

34:57

A messaging and social media

34:59

app started in 2013 by

35:01

Russian tech entrepreneur, Pavel Durov,

35:04

and his brother Nikolai. James

35:06

Bandler. One of their chief

35:08

marketing pitches was that this

35:10

would be a place free

35:13

of censorship, that it would

35:15

be a place where free

35:17

speech was paramount, and it

35:19

was also private and secure.

35:22

And I'm starting a new

35:24

document. Open it up. I'm

35:26

calling it Letter to Poble.

35:28

Telegraph is based in Dubai.

35:30

It has close to a

35:33

billion users, but only about

35:35

60 employees. Many of them

35:37

engineers from the start telegram

35:39

took an extreme approach to

35:42

free speech and offered more

35:44

powerful features than other platforms

35:46

giving it mass appeal. So

35:48

you can send encrypted messages

35:50

to your friends. You can

35:53

create big chat groups where

35:55

you have thousands of people

35:57

chatting or you can turn

35:59

it into a sort of

36:02

one-way broadcast system where you

36:04

are pumping out your propaganda

36:06

and your... message day after

36:08

day to a group of

36:11

people who are subscribing to

36:13

your broadcast channel. Telegram, much

36:15

like the Chance, was a

36:17

platform where almost anything went.

36:19

There was virtually no moderation.

36:22

This platform became immensely useful

36:24

for social justice activists in

36:26

repressive countries. It also became

36:28

a place that was also

36:31

useful for people committing crimes

36:33

and terrorists. In 2015, the

36:35

app became popular with ISIS.

36:37

There's an app called telegram

36:39

that more and more members

36:42

of ISIS are using. The

36:44

telegram became the preferred communication

36:46

method for ISIS. The group

36:48

used it to claim responsibility

36:51

for the Paris attacks. Under

36:53

pressure from European governments, telegram

36:55

began to shut down ISIS

36:57

channels. But accelerationist... Soon followed

36:59

the ISIS example. Extremists started

37:02

plotting in a chatroom called

37:04

telegram. By 2019, white supremacists

37:06

were flocking to telegram, from

37:08

eight Chan, and from major

37:11

platforms like Facebook, YouTube, and

37:13

Twitter, which were increasingly policing

37:15

content and banning users. There

37:17

was an organized effort by

37:20

white supremacist and accelerationist to

37:22

move on to telegram and

37:24

they saw it as their

37:26

new home and a place

37:28

where maybe they wouldn't be

37:31

harassed and kicked off the

37:33

platform for a while These

37:35

are all people who have

37:37

met to encourage one another

37:40

to engage in acts of

37:42

lethal terrorism and industrial sabotage.

37:44

This is a very militant,

37:46

aggressive, dangerous community. Nobody from

37:48

telegram would agree to an

37:51

interview. In a written statement,

37:53

the company said it has

37:55

always screened postings for problematic

37:57

content and calls for violence

38:00

from any group are not

38:02

tolerated. But on

38:04

October 12th, 2022,

38:07

a young man

38:09

who had spent

38:12

years in accelerationist

38:14

chats on telegram

38:16

made the leap

38:19

from online

38:21

extremist to

38:23

real-world terrorists.

38:26

Here in

38:28

Bratislava. Rod Catroxia

38:30

Rova had seen her two

38:33

friends get gunned down outside

38:35

the Teplarin bar. She'd also

38:37

been shot, twice, in the

38:40

leg, but dragged herself to

38:42

safety. I remember shutting the

38:44

door from the inside and

38:47

crawling under a bench, but

38:49

I couldn't make it any

38:51

further. I was in terrible

38:53

pain because the bullet went

38:55

through my thighbone. I

38:58

was deeply confused. Why would

39:00

anyone do it? In the

39:02

hours after the attack,

39:04

as 19-year-old Yuri Kreichk

39:06

went on the run,

39:08

he kept posting on

39:10

social media. His handle

39:12

was an acronym. NTMA,

39:14

0315, never take me

39:17

alive, March 15th, an

39:19

apparent reference to the

39:21

Christchurch attack. A news

39:23

report says, this brutal

39:25

attack was condemned by

39:27

the president, prime minister,

39:29

and other politicians. Command

39:31

says, personally, I live on the

39:34

street next to Simletzka Street,

39:36

and I heard the gunshots.

39:38

Merrick Madro is a psychologist

39:40

who runs a youth crisis hotline

39:42

and brought a slava. A few

39:45

hours later, I was asked by

39:47

the police to try to contact

39:49

the attacker and speak with him.

39:51

As the manhunt continued, the

39:54

shooter was threatening

39:56

to kill himself.

40:00

I had his phone number

40:03

from classmates and also

40:05

from the police. And

40:08

after 10 text messages,

40:10

he finally picked up

40:13

the phone. My job was

40:15

to save a life in

40:17

danger. He told me that

40:19

he had to die and

40:21

that he hoped that what

40:23

he had done would shake

40:25

up society. That it made

40:27

sense what he had done

40:29

and that, yes, he was

40:32

very scared. But without killing

40:34

himself, it wouldn't make sense.

40:36

You don't really connect to

40:38

the content. You connect to

40:40

the way they're talking. Then

40:42

the shot rang out and

40:44

there was silence. I

40:46

came here to try

40:49

to understand more about

40:51

what had motivated this

40:54

19-year-old to launch

40:56

a terror attack

40:59

and then kill

41:01

himself. At the

41:03

time, the authorities

41:05

examined. At the time, the

41:07

authorities examined the shooter. But little

41:09

was known about his online connections

41:12

to far-right extremists, or who he'd

41:14

been communicating with about his plans.

41:16

How's your morning going? Not bad.

41:18

I met the prosecutor who oversaw

41:21

the investigation of the attack. Daniel

41:23

Lipsich. You know about the manifesto,

41:25

when we were on the crime

41:27

scene already, because he published it,

41:30

I think, a few hours before

41:32

the attack. Now, that manifesto, if

41:34

you read it, 90% of that,

41:37

is anti-Semitic. Frankly speaking, only a

41:39

small part of it is against

41:41

LGBT. The bulk of it is

41:44

anti-Semitic. What do you think led

41:46

him to commit this act of

41:48

terrorism and to subscribe to

41:50

this extremist ideology? Well, based

41:52

on, of course, he made

41:54

it very clear in the

41:56

manifesto. I mean, he was interested.

42:00

very much in the Christchurch attack

42:02

in New Zealand and in the

42:04

attack committed by John Ernest in

42:06

California. Those were the role

42:08

models for him. It was kind of in

42:10

a kind of like to certain extent

42:13

you might call it a copycat crime.

42:15

Do you know if the attacker was

42:17

a member of any real world

42:19

groups? We were not able to

42:21

establish that he was involved in

42:23

any groups. From the investigation it

42:25

seems that he was a long

42:27

wolf. But as I

42:30

dug deeper, a different story

42:32

began emerging. In his

42:34

manifesto, Kritik had thanked

42:36

the Terrogram Collective for

42:39

what he called its

42:41

incredible writing, political texts,

42:44

and practical guides. I

42:46

had already heard of this

42:49

group in 2019. It had

42:51

started as an informal network

42:53

on telegram. At first it's

42:55

just a handful of chat

42:57

rooms and channels on telegram.

42:59

Then it is bigger and

43:02

bigger and bigger and finally

43:04

it takes on a formal

43:06

shape and people within that

43:08

group say now we're starting

43:10

something called the telegram collective

43:12

and this is going to

43:14

be our organized arm that

43:17

is going to generate

43:19

in-depth propaganda, in-depth

43:21

material for this

43:23

community. They're

43:25

saying, hey, these guys like

43:27

Brent and Taren, these people

43:30

are heroes. We'll call them

43:32

saints and you should act

43:34

like them. You should become

43:36

a disciple of Brent and

43:38

Taren and go out and

43:40

kill people. He posted it on

43:43

Twitter. I think, but I

43:45

have to check. I had

43:47

been able to obtain a

43:49

trove of archived post from

43:51

telegram and other platforms. I

43:54

teamed up with investigative journalist Lukash

43:56

Diko and Karim Shoemosh who had

43:58

reported on terror. in the

44:00

aftermath of the Bratislava shooting.

44:03

In his manifesto, Krytikit also

44:05

singled out a key

44:07

individual from the Terogram

44:09

collective, known as Slovak

44:11

Bro. Using the trove, we began

44:13

to piece together a picture of

44:16

Slovak Bro. Lucas came up with a

44:18

bunch of usernames, and I took

44:20

those usernames and put them everywhere

44:23

I could find, and... My

44:25

understanding from looking at his social

44:27

media history is that Slovak Bro

44:29

starts off being like kind of

44:32

a normy and eventually he

44:34

gets into accelerationism and terrorism and

44:36

you see the whole arc of

44:39

his change online. The post showed

44:41

that Slovak Bro was a

44:43

founding member of the Terrogram community

44:45

and one of its most prolific

44:48

content creators. Slovak Bro is a

44:50

big guy in this world. He

44:52

has thousands of people. in his

44:54

channels. He's spreading all kinds of

44:56

stuff. Some of it is instructions.

44:58

This is how you do a

45:00

crime and you don't get caught.

45:02

Don't talk about, you know, what

45:04

you're going to do on here.

45:06

Some of it is inspirational. It's

45:09

like, here's a graphic that's going

45:11

to inspire you to go kill

45:13

people. Some of it is operational.

45:15

It's like, here's a manual for

45:17

making high-powered explosive or to 3D printed

45:19

gun. Slovac

45:22

Bro's real identity was

45:25

Pavel Benedict, a 22-year-old

45:27

Slabakian student. He'd been

45:30

arrested and jailed months

45:32

before the Brata-Slava shootings

45:34

and charged with more

45:37

than 200 terrorism offenses

45:39

stemming from his telegram

45:41

posts. We wanted to

45:44

find out what the Slovac

45:46

authorities knew about any ties

45:48

between him and your eye

45:50

crychik. Were you able to establish if

45:52

they were in any kind of

45:55

communication? Well, they were in communication,

45:57

but because we, of course, interrogate...

45:59

the person known as a

46:01

Slovak bro in this case

46:03

and yes they did communicate

46:06

but only very briefly. And

46:08

this was a direct message

46:10

between the two? Yes, of

46:12

course they did not know

46:14

about their identities but that

46:16

was it. There was nothing

46:18

significant in their communication. You

46:20

mean that Slovak bro didn't

46:22

inside him to go and

46:25

kill? No, not at all.

46:27

But Slovak authorities didn't have

46:29

the whole picture. The prosecutors

46:31

say, oh, they didn't really

46:33

know each other, they didn't

46:35

communicate, they only had one

46:38

brief interaction. Before we came

46:40

here, I didn't know what

46:42

Krychik, the Bratislava attacker, had

46:44

done online. Didn't know who

46:46

he was online, I didn't

46:48

know what he had posted.

46:51

And when we were here, we

46:53

discovered what I believe is

46:55

his handle, his account in

46:58

these telegram chats. and it

47:00

helped tell a different story

47:02

than what law enforcement

47:04

was telling. Can you go

47:07

just a more up? To find

47:09

Krijik's handle, Lukas

47:11

Diko and I poured

47:13

over thousands of archived

47:15

telegram chats from the

47:17

trove. Slovak's war rule.

47:19

It's the one Slovak

47:22

bro deleted? Yeah. I

47:24

started going through these chats looking

47:26

to figure out who Yuri Krijek

47:28

was. Is he in these chats?

47:30

Does he connect with Slovak bro?

47:33

And then I found someone

47:35

speaking Slovak and it wasn't

47:37

Slovak bro. It was someone

47:39

else. I thought, oh, this

47:41

person could be Yuri Krijek.

47:43

This is Slovak bro. No,

47:45

he's speaking in your language.

47:47

It's Bobby, my friend, let's

47:49

fight. The user went by

47:51

the name Bobby Bowie. These

47:53

are chats with another terror

47:55

Graham group. This is zeroing

47:58

in on Bobby Bowie more

48:00

than 500 posts in Slovak

48:02

Bros. chats in late 2019,

48:04

the early days of Terrogram.

48:07

Then there's other language in

48:09

here that's like the language

48:11

in his manifesto. It's almost

48:14

exactly. It soon became clear

48:16

that Bobby Bowie was your

48:18

eye crychick. This is his

48:21

manifesto and he's talking about

48:23

these memes that he saw

48:25

on Achan. about Brent and

48:28

Tarrant, the Christchurch attacker. In

48:30

the post, on telegram, he's

48:32

talking about the same exact

48:35

thing, comparing Russia and America

48:37

and saying they're both controlled

48:39

by Jews, all this stuff

48:41

that's... That's Cretchik mentions in

48:44

the manifesto. Yeah. We could

48:46

now track Cretchik's radicalization on

48:48

terrogram and see what his

48:51

life was like before the

48:53

attack. This

48:57

is the apartment complex? Yes.

48:59

He had been living a

49:01

comfortable life with his family

49:03

in a middle-class neighborhood a

49:05

few miles from the center

49:07

of Bratislava's old town. The

49:09

chat logs show he'd spent

49:11

many hours a day on

49:13

terrogram. You know, Yuri Kreisek

49:15

got on that platform. He

49:17

was already a racist. But

49:19

he was molded and shaped

49:21

by the veterans on that

49:23

platform who were really looking

49:25

for someone for the things

49:27

that they wanted to do.

49:29

Crichik was only 16, getting

49:31

primed for the militant accelerationist

49:33

cause, discussing the merits of

49:35

other so-called saints with Slovak

49:37

bro, including synagogue attacker John

49:40

T. Ernest. There's conversations between

49:42

Yuri Crichik and Pavel Benedict,

49:44

where Pavel Benedict says, John

49:46

Ernest, down in San Diego,

49:48

he messed up. He didn't

49:50

kill enough people. And he

49:52

was running. from these Jewish

49:54

people in the synagogue. He's

49:56

like, that's a bad look.

49:58

That's bad optics. You need

50:00

to be better than that.

50:02

Train, prepare, be a better

50:04

killer. These are conversations that

50:06

he was having with Yuri

50:08

Krychik. It was all about

50:10

killing. Krychik was in. He

50:12

soon began posting about potential

50:14

targets for terror attacks, spending

50:16

hours in Slovak Bro's chat.

50:18

In one instance, posting his

50:20

own photographs of LGBTQ protesters

50:23

at a climate rally. Amid

50:25

the hundreds of posts we

50:27

looked at, one popped out.

50:29

This is it. This is

50:31

the thing that... This is

50:33

what blew my mind. I'm

50:35

scrolling through here and then

50:37

I see that the attacker

50:39

has posted about the place

50:41

where the attack happened years

50:43

before. This is his username,

50:45

talking about the place that

50:47

Krychik was going to go

50:49

shoot, the cafe, the cafe,

50:51

the gay bar. And then...

50:53

There's all this discussion between

50:55

Project and Slovak Bro about

50:57

attacking the place. And Slovak

50:59

Bro says, I don't want

51:01

to even use nail bombs

51:04

with that joint. What I

51:06

want to do is so

51:08

unprintable that hell is going

51:10

to be preferable. And the

51:12

guy we think is the

51:14

attacker says, just saying he

51:16

will instantly make a squad

51:18

of federal agents appear behind

51:20

you and arrest you. So

51:22

this is from September. of

51:25

2019. He'd been thinking about it

51:28

for years. I brought the trove

51:30

of terrogram post to London. This

51:32

is an amazing library of data,

51:35

where Pierre Vaux works as an

51:37

open source investigator. Once you start

51:40

building up a huge amount of

51:42

data, you need to start putting

51:44

it into a... different graphical setting

51:47

because otherwise it becomes overwhelming to

51:49

read. He created a database from

51:51

our chat archives as well as

51:54

others. sources that showed how the

51:56

telegram network expanded in the years

51:59

after 2019 and how Slovak bro

52:01

was central to it. This is

52:03

Slovak bro who ran a telegram

52:06

channel called Slovak seed shack and

52:08

the chat room attached to that

52:10

really had a sort of who's

52:13

who of the Nazi scene at

52:15

that time as members of it.

52:18

Oh wow. So you can see

52:20

his like emergence in 2019 and

52:22

These are people mentioning him and

52:25

these are messages from him. Yeah,

52:27

interesting. Each of the lines here

52:30

is a forward or a mention.

52:32

That's one channel sending people to

52:34

another channel. So this is a

52:37

visualization that really shows us where

52:39

these people are talking, often quite

52:41

candidly because of the perception of

52:44

privacy that telegram brings, especially as

52:46

some of these are private groups.

52:49

He was able to find more

52:51

evidence of Crychicks activity in the

52:53

terrogram community. So Bobby Bowie had

52:56

come up lots of times in

52:58

this data set because he was

53:01

coming up as a member of

53:03

the chats, but we didn't know

53:05

who he was. You're looking for

53:08

what nodes turn up in networks

53:10

over and over again. So Crychicks

53:12

account is Bob Bowie, and we

53:15

can expand that one. He was

53:17

a very active user of all

53:20

these channels. I've got another 40

53:22

channels he was in. These are

53:24

all chats. Yeah. Oh, wow. So

53:27

I knew he was in 14

53:29

words. He's in some, like, kind

53:31

of cute stuff. He's in some,

53:34

like, truck or stuff. But, like,

53:36

that's a lot more than I

53:39

knew. Especially it looks like Slovak

53:41

Bro was bringing him into his

53:43

much smaller chats. What's really clear

53:46

now is that Slovak Bro had

53:48

been trying for years to influence

53:51

people to engage in terrorism, and

53:53

he was successful. Yuri Kreyjek is

53:55

his product. Yuri Kreyjek is somebody

53:58

that he influenced. We

54:07

took our reporting on Slovak

54:09

Bro and Yuri Krychik to

54:12

Slovak authorities. It's really become

54:14

clear to me that Yuri

54:16

Krychik and Slovak Bro had

54:19

ongoing conversations for years. But

54:21

you know, for us, this

54:23

communication was not a normal

54:25

communication. Peter Kaisel is the

54:28

prosecutor who oversaw the investigation

54:30

into Slovak Bro. But he

54:32

said he'd never seen the

54:35

2019 messages between the two

54:37

men. The fact is that

54:39

we were not aware of

54:41

these communications. The prosecution law

54:44

office was not aware about

54:46

this communication. You were surprised

54:48

when you learned that they

54:50

were having these extensive conversations.

54:53

Yeah, because there was a

54:55

communication in 2019 and the

54:57

attack was in 2022, so

55:00

there was a really gap.

55:02

Yeah, and I believe that

55:04

that connection persisted past. 2019,

55:06

but it seems to me

55:09

like Slovak Bro lied to

55:11

you about his level of

55:13

connection. Yeah, it's possible. Throughout

55:15

2020, Terogram was evolving from

55:18

a loose network of accounts

55:20

into a prolific propaganda machine

55:22

made up of dozens of

55:25

accelerationist channels, with Slovak Bro

55:27

at its center. Hey everybody

55:29

and welcome to Hate Lab.

55:31

All right Slavak Bro is

55:34

joining us for the very

55:36

first time on Hate Lab.

55:38

That year, Pavel Benedict as

55:40

Slovak Bro was interviewed on

55:43

a terogram-related podcast. Yeah, I'm

55:45

the guy who runs Slovak

55:47

See Check. I've been on

55:50

this thing for a couple

55:52

of years and then I

55:54

decided to become a fucking

55:56

content producer because that's what

55:59

this movement, quote unquote, really

56:01

needs, you know. Law enforcement

56:03

in the US and abroad

56:05

was taking notice. What's interesting

56:08

about this collective is how

56:10

transnational it is and how

56:12

interconnected some of the players

56:15

are in it. Rebecca Weiner's

56:17

deputy commissioner for intelligence and

56:19

counterterrorism at the NYPD. Her

56:21

unit was monitoring terrogram as

56:24

it stepped up production of

56:26

extremist content. The influence of

56:28

Slovak pro in this world

56:30

was... quite strong, not just

56:33

around terrogram collective and propaganda

56:35

output, but also encouraging people

56:37

to take next steps into

56:40

action. You are the revolutionary,

56:42

so act like it. Hail

56:44

victory, man. Yes, you're ready.

56:46

Get ready. Read your answer

56:49

to Did You Still Skills?

56:51

By 2021, Slovak Bro and

56:53

others have begun calling themselves

56:56

the terrogram collective. and released

56:58

an official publication under the

57:00

new name. Extremism expert Milo

57:02

Cumberford. This was the first

57:05

time that we started to

57:07

see the bringing together of

57:09

some of the ideological output

57:11

of saints' culture and of

57:14

the sort of broader aesthetic

57:16

of the terrogram collective with

57:18

specific material that was calling

57:21

for attacks against specific groups

57:23

and really generating a clear

57:25

violent extremist ideology. It was

57:27

posted as a PDF. It

57:30

was posted as a PDF.

57:32

designed to be shared widely.

57:34

More official telegram publications would

57:36

follow. Rebecca Weiner. So you

57:39

have this sanctification of martyrs

57:41

who've come before, combined with

57:43

the ideology that you see

57:46

at play in many of

57:48

these manifestos. neo-Nazi propaganda, targeting

57:50

guidance, and tactical guidance, how

57:52

to make certain kinds of

57:55

explosives, as well as who

57:57

you might want to target.

57:59

In October 2021, a new

58:01

series of telegram publications began

58:04

to emerge called the list,

58:06

alleged assassination targets with addresses,

58:08

maps of their homes, and

58:11

rationales for killing. And it's

58:13

basically just this ongoing hit

58:15

list of dozens and dozens

58:17

of people, American corporate leaders,

58:20

government officials, academics, and others.

58:22

telegram tried to shut down

58:24

user accounts that were posting.

58:26

In its statement to us,

58:29

the company said it had

58:31

been removing groups and channels

58:33

using the telegram name since

58:36

it first surfaced, and that

58:38

it was harder for criminals

58:40

to open accounts on telegram

58:42

than other platforms. But in

58:45

many cases, we saw in

58:47

the archived posts that users

58:49

had just opened new accounts

58:52

and new channels and continued

58:54

posting about assassinations. The nature

58:56

of telegram is an app

58:58

is an app is an

59:01

app. many of the channels

59:03

are highly ephemeral in nature,

59:05

they come and go and

59:07

are able to be easily

59:10

replaced. It's very easy to

59:12

sidestep enforcement attempts that really

59:14

try to use a whack-a-mole

59:17

approach to takedown. The targeting

59:19

of Americans triggered an international

59:21

criminal investigation involving law enforcement

59:23

in the US and Europe.

59:26

In May 2022, Slovak Bro

59:28

was arrested and was ultimately

59:30

sentenced to six years in

59:32

prison for more than a

59:35

hundred terrorism offenses. But the

59:37

telegram collective lived on. Researcher

59:39

Matt Kreiner. Terrogram is not

59:42

reliant on any one individual

59:44

or entity to make it

59:46

what it is. What we

59:48

often see is these... leaders

59:51

in the telegram space come

59:53

and go. They fall off,

59:55

they build back brands, they

59:57

gain. prominence, they lose prominence.

1:00:00

It's very much a fluid

1:00:02

environment where no one person

1:00:04

owns a commanding stake of

1:00:07

it. Researcher Matt Kreiner has

1:00:09

studied how other terrogram leaders

1:00:11

emerged after the arrest of

1:00:13

Slovak Bro, including one known

1:00:16

as Miss Gorehound. Miss

1:00:18

Gorehound is one of the aliases

1:00:20

that we know to be a

1:00:22

central figure within the telegram ecosystem.

1:00:24

She has been a strong proponent

1:00:26

of the development of the telegram

1:00:28

publications ran a number of channels

1:00:30

that had direct influence and ownership

1:00:32

over the Saints culture. Miss Gorehound

1:00:34

picked that up and said this

1:00:36

is a model. We can actually

1:00:39

turn this into a very consolidated

1:00:41

pipeline for radicalization and mobilization of

1:00:43

individuals to carry out more terrorist

1:00:45

attacks. So

1:00:49

there's a lot of overlap

1:00:51

between these people. Miss Gorehound,

1:00:54

otherwise known as R.W.B.C., standing

1:00:56

for Right-wing Book Club, who

1:00:58

runs another range of telegram

1:01:00

channels in the telegram network.

1:01:02

We can select that. And

1:01:05

we can see that she's

1:01:07

got her Cat and Joys

1:01:09

Anonymous channel. She's got the

1:01:11

Right-Wing Book Club ones. She's

1:01:14

got Rider-80-8. Rider-Righter returns. Miss

1:01:16

Gore- Gore-88. Now, when we

1:01:18

highlight these groups, again, we

1:01:20

get a lot. of shared

1:01:23

channels with Miss Gorehound. This

1:01:25

is a closed chat, but

1:01:27

these individuals are really active

1:01:29

in it. The database showed

1:01:32

that by mid-2020, your eye

1:01:34

crytic was a member of

1:01:36

a group chat run by

1:01:38

Miss Gorehound. If you look

1:01:40

at someone like Miss Gorehound,

1:01:43

they're super connected because they're

1:01:45

creating loads of channels and

1:01:47

they're infiltrating loads of channels.

1:01:49

Whereas someone like Krychik, oh

1:01:52

there's opposite of that in

1:01:54

a way, they're just really

1:01:56

desperate to get into this.

1:01:58

They found a wonderful world

1:02:01

of friendly like-minded people with

1:02:03

their funny memes that they

1:02:05

can consume. and you know

1:02:07

it gives them a sense

1:02:09

of camaraderie and belongings. What

1:02:12

you see in in the

1:02:14

chats that I've read is

1:02:16

that he's getting ideas from

1:02:18

the older people. He's expressing

1:02:21

his desire to target specific

1:02:23

targets and he's being pushed

1:02:25

in this very violent direction

1:02:27

and also this direction of

1:02:30

sort of self-immolation that is

1:02:32

heroic to go and kill

1:02:34

and then kill yourself. Dallas

1:02:36

Aaron Humber. She's pleaded not

1:02:39

guilty to terrorism charges and

1:02:41

is in jail awaiting trial.

1:02:43

Her identity was originally exposed

1:02:45

and posted online by a

1:02:47

group of activists. We felt

1:02:50

that people need to tell

1:02:52

who these Nazis were. One

1:02:54

of them agreed to speak

1:02:56

to us if we granted

1:02:59

them anonymity. Tell me about

1:03:01

Dallas and her life. She

1:03:03

is a... 35-year-old woman from

1:03:05

Elk Grove, California. She considers

1:03:08

herself an artist. What was

1:03:10

her role in the telegram

1:03:12

collective from what you can

1:03:14

tell? It looks like she

1:03:17

started as the narrator of

1:03:19

Mass Murder's Manifestos. It was

1:03:21

a new kind of propaganda.

1:03:23

Manifesto audio books. Emmy. Mass

1:03:25

Murder Manifesto, she got her

1:03:28

hands on. She would turn

1:03:30

into an audio book and

1:03:32

put it out. Mass immigration

1:03:34

will disenfranchise us, subvert our

1:03:37

nations, destroy our communities. The

1:03:39

shooter audio books became a

1:03:41

signature. Long before low fertility

1:03:43

rates ever could. The audio

1:03:46

books were posted to telegram

1:03:48

channels linked to her. How

1:03:50

important would you say she

1:03:52

was in the telegram collective

1:03:55

in the telegram scene? I

1:03:57

think initially she was just

1:03:59

a mouthpiece that over time

1:04:01

has... certain members of Chair

1:04:03

Graham started to get docked

1:04:06

or arrested, it created this

1:04:08

vacuum. And in that vacuum,

1:04:10

Dallas Humber managed to carve

1:04:12

out a niche for herself.

1:04:15

And through that, she absolutely

1:04:17

came up to leave that

1:04:19

collective. We

1:04:23

could see in the

1:04:25

trove of terrogram chats

1:04:27

that Miss Gorehound was

1:04:29

working with another prolific

1:04:31

propagandist with the username

1:04:33

ban this channel or

1:04:35

BTC. We can zoom

1:04:37

in on an individual.

1:04:39

So here we've got

1:04:41

BTC, which is the

1:04:43

alias behind several telegram

1:04:45

channels, which all have

1:04:47

similar initials. So, bold

1:04:49

turds, coin, ban this

1:04:52

channel and big-f-chicken chicken.

1:04:54

Now, BTC is a

1:04:56

super spreader in terms

1:04:58

of telegram group membership.

1:05:00

BTC was the white

1:05:02

whale of the telegram

1:05:04

collective. Public reporter James

1:05:06

Bandler. Everyone knew about

1:05:08

his post, but no

1:05:10

one knew who he

1:05:12

was. And this for

1:05:14

us was a big

1:05:16

puzzle. and his stick

1:05:18

was creating content that

1:05:20

was controversial enough to

1:05:22

get him banned. He

1:05:24

created dozens of channels

1:05:26

and groups on telegram.

1:05:28

Sociologist Pete see me.

1:05:30

I wasn't sure whether

1:05:33

BTC was one person,

1:05:35

whether it was maybe

1:05:37

a small group of

1:05:39

people that were putting

1:05:41

these videos together. I

1:05:43

first became aware of

1:05:45

BTC through a specific

1:05:47

video that BTC produced

1:05:49

called The Last Battle

1:05:51

on a telegram channel

1:05:53

that I was monitoring

1:05:55

and then started seeing

1:05:57

other videos circulars. on

1:05:59

telegram that were also

1:06:01

allegedly made by this

1:06:03

BTC. They were building,

1:06:05

we're organizing. They serve

1:06:07

the purpose of propaganda

1:06:09

to do things like

1:06:11

recruit new people and

1:06:13

sustain members, in this

1:06:16

case, encouraging violence. It's

1:06:18

about to be a

1:06:20

white boy, something. BTC

1:06:22

posted around 120 videos.

1:06:24

Many of them with

1:06:26

graphic racist and anti-Semitic

1:06:28

violence. clips of the

1:06:30

Christchurch attack video and

1:06:32

homophobic imagery. Terrorogram's most

1:06:34

infamous video was a

1:06:36

BTC Miss Gorehound collaboration.

1:06:38

We know that the

1:06:40

narrators Dallas Humber. 105

1:06:42

white men and women

1:06:44

of action. So white

1:06:46

terrorists meant for somebody

1:06:48

who's been indoctrinated and

1:06:50

the push is if

1:06:52

you do commit an

1:06:54

act of violence. This

1:06:57

is what you can

1:06:59

expect. You will be

1:07:01

celebrated to. Breaking news

1:07:03

right now, the Justice

1:07:05

Department charging two people

1:07:07

saying that they were

1:07:09

leading a white supremacist

1:07:11

group that wanted to

1:07:13

ignite a race war.

1:07:15

In September 2024, the

1:07:17

mystery of BTC's identity

1:07:19

was solved. The indictment

1:07:21

charges in 15 counts

1:07:23

that... Federal prosecutors announced

1:07:25

they had arrested two

1:07:27

leaders of the telegram

1:07:29

collective. One was Dallas

1:07:31

Humber. The other, a

1:07:33

37-year-old man in Matthew

1:07:35

Allison. We were very

1:07:37

familiar with Dallas Humber.

1:07:40

The second person was

1:07:42

a 37-year-old. We'd never

1:07:44

heard of. But as

1:07:46

we talked with researchers

1:07:48

over the next day,

1:07:50

it became... pretty clear

1:07:52

to us that Matt

1:07:54

Allison was none other

1:07:56

than BTC. Allison lived

1:07:58

in Boise, Idaho. We

1:08:02

wanted to find out

1:08:04

who Matt Allison really

1:08:06

was. We went to

1:08:09

Boise and started talking

1:08:11

with people who knew

1:08:14

Matt Allison in the

1:08:16

real world. And the

1:08:18

story that we unraveled

1:08:21

was frankly very disturbing

1:08:23

because this man was

1:08:25

living a complete double

1:08:28

life. We

1:08:31

learned that in public Matthew

1:08:33

Allison was an aspiring DJ

1:08:35

who worked menial jobs and

1:08:38

parted with friends in the

1:08:40

local electronic dance music community.

1:08:42

But federal investigators say that

1:08:45

in private he was helping

1:08:47

run the pterogram collective. We

1:08:49

quickly got a picture of

1:08:52

a person who was very

1:08:54

well liked, who hung out

1:08:56

with a very multicultural group

1:08:59

of friends. and a person

1:09:01

who was also a gay

1:09:03

man. So while he was

1:09:06

living the life of a

1:09:08

gay man in Boise, on

1:09:10

telegram he was making posts

1:09:13

celebrating the murders of gay

1:09:15

people and brought us lava.

1:09:30

Matthew Allison agreed to talk

1:09:32

to James against the advice

1:09:35

of his lawyer. No cameras

1:09:37

were allowed in the jail.

1:09:39

After the interview, James called

1:09:42

me. Hey, so what happened?

1:09:44

So, he came out. He's

1:09:46

exactly like, tall, rangy skinny.

1:09:49

He confirmed, he said he

1:09:51

didn't confess like to the

1:09:54

crimes, he just confessed to

1:09:56

being BTC, to the FBI.

1:09:58

So he said he urged

1:10:01

people to just be legal

1:10:03

on the channel and to

1:10:05

not actually incite actual violent

1:10:08

acts. He chucks it up

1:10:10

to being an artist. This

1:10:12

is my free expression. I'm

1:10:15

an artist and he's really

1:10:17

proud of a lot of

1:10:19

his work. So he's not

1:10:22

contrite, he's not taking it

1:10:24

back. He's not. I don't

1:10:26

think he's contrite at all

1:10:29

about it and I think

1:10:31

he's going to push a

1:10:33

hardcore free speech, you know,

1:10:36

case on it if he

1:10:38

can. He described himself as

1:10:40

a video artist, a person

1:10:43

who was creating art and

1:10:45

content that was protected under

1:10:47

the First Amendment. He denied

1:10:50

being a terrorist, he denied

1:10:52

wanting to incite people to

1:10:54

commit murder. He

1:10:57

admitted that he was an

1:10:59

ethno-nationalist. And he says, I

1:11:01

believe white people need to

1:11:04

band together, meaning to tribe

1:11:06

up. Tribup is how he

1:11:08

put it. And he called

1:11:10

the indictment bullshit. Prosecutors alleged

1:11:12

that Dallas Humber and Matthew

1:11:15

Allison were both in direct

1:11:17

contact with the broad Aslava

1:11:19

shooter. Your eye cried chick

1:11:21

in the year before his

1:11:24

attack. The indictment

1:11:26

accuses Humber of pushing a

1:11:28

message in her posts. To

1:11:30

become a telegram saint, you

1:11:33

had to be white and

1:11:35

kill those deemed inferior. The

1:11:37

mission was clear. To indoctrinate

1:11:40

younger people on telegram. She

1:11:42

allegedly wrote about one user.

1:11:44

He's like 18 years old

1:11:47

and seems very impressionable. I'm

1:11:49

trying to radicalize him. I

1:11:53

found post from July 2022

1:11:55

where she was promoting a

1:11:58

new telegram publication. Soon after

1:12:00

it's... release, your eye cry

1:12:02

chick was talking to her

1:12:04

about it. Look at this.

1:12:07

He says, just finish reading

1:12:09

it. It's excellent. And then

1:12:11

this is the US person

1:12:14

who's a terror grammar, Dallas,

1:12:16

and says, I haven't finished

1:12:18

reading it yet, but it's

1:12:21

a literary and artistic masterpiece.

1:12:23

And she says, what were

1:12:25

some of your favorite passages?

1:12:28

I know that your eye

1:12:30

cry chick and Dallas Humber

1:12:32

were in contact. And I

1:12:35

know that Dallas Humber was

1:12:37

repeatedly encouraging Crychik to engage

1:12:39

in terrorism and cheerleading for

1:12:42

terrorism. That's her own words.

1:12:44

She says, I love those

1:12:46

two. I hope the next

1:12:48

saints out there read those

1:12:51

passages and feel inspired. We

1:12:53

have all the strengths. It

1:12:55

was the diary of a

1:12:58

fully radicalized accelerationist. We find

1:13:00

ourselves in a critical situation.

1:13:02

We will need to radically

1:13:05

alter the course of history

1:13:07

and only radical action can

1:13:09

do that. In mid-August 2022,

1:13:12

Kritik starts to do reconnaissance.

1:13:14

He posts about targeting the

1:13:16

Prime Minister of Slovakia. Hashtag

1:13:19

Edward Hager, hashtag NTMA, 0315,

1:13:21

test and preparation. There were

1:13:23

several targets, but a perpetrator

1:13:25

made a list of targets

1:13:28

based on the difficulty to

1:13:30

commit a successful attack. Gakab-Gaidosh

1:13:32

was a counter-terrorism official assigned

1:13:35

to the Krite case. Preparing

1:13:37

on attack, he took several

1:13:39

pictures of the potential targets,

1:13:42

the highest ranked. place of

1:13:44

hitting the Prime Minister and

1:13:46

I think it's this one

1:13:49

because you can identify the

1:13:51

bush and identify the two

1:13:53

windows that are on the

1:13:56

picture actually. Yeah, it looks

1:13:58

like it. August 15th, Krychik

1:14:00

tweets three selfies in front

1:14:03

of the home of the

1:14:05

Prime Minister, along with the

1:14:07

caption. Just taking a look

1:14:09

at some places? In his

1:14:12

rankings of the targets, an

1:14:14

attack on a Jewish community

1:14:16

should follow. Later that day,

1:14:19

Krychik tweets sarcastically. As a

1:14:21

proud LGBTQIAP plus Jew, I

1:14:23

would like you all to

1:14:26

join me at the Habad

1:14:28

office today, before we proceed

1:14:30

to the LGBTQIAP plus bar

1:14:33

for a drink. Attached are

1:14:35

two more selfies, one in

1:14:37

front of a Jewish community

1:14:40

center, the other in front

1:14:42

of his final target, the

1:14:44

Teplar and bar. In the

1:14:47

coming weeks, his tweets reflect

1:14:49

his commitment to violence. I

1:14:51

don't expect to make it.

1:14:53

In all likelihood, I will

1:14:56

die in the course of

1:14:58

the operation. September 6th. I

1:15:00

want to damage the system

1:15:03

to the best of my

1:15:05

abilities. September 16th. Accelerationism means

1:15:07

helping the system collapse faster.

1:15:10

October 10th. People who I

1:15:12

consider heroes and role models,

1:15:14

Brent and John T. Ernest.

1:15:17

And finally, October 11th. I

1:15:19

have made my decision. The

1:15:32

next night, when Krychik was

1:15:34

on the run after his

1:15:37

attack, U.S. prosecutors say he

1:15:39

sent a direct message to

1:15:41

Matthew Allison, BTC. He wrote,

1:15:44

not sure how much time

1:15:46

I have, but it's happening.

1:15:48

They allege he also sent

1:15:51

Allison his manifesto. It was

1:15:53

posted on several accounts linked

1:15:55

to BTC. Ms. Gorehounds accounts

1:15:58

also announced the news. Your

1:16:00

Eye Crychick was hailed as

1:16:02

Terrogam's very first saint. A

1:16:05

few days later, she released

1:16:07

the Manifesto as an audio

1:16:09

book. His manifesto is absolutely

1:16:12

fire. Here was someone that

1:16:14

they successfully indoctrinated and encouraged

1:16:16

to kill, and he'd gone

1:16:19

out and done it. By

1:16:28

the time of the Broad

1:16:30

Aslava attack, law enforcement was

1:16:32

already closing in on the

1:16:34

Terrogram collective. The downfall of

1:16:36

the Terrogram collective starts with

1:16:38

the arrest of Pavel Benedict.

1:16:40

He gets arrested in 2022,

1:16:42

and then you see a

1:16:45

cascade of arrests around the

1:16:47

world of people who are

1:16:49

both collective leaders and people

1:16:51

who are responding. to the

1:16:53

collective's propaganda and part of

1:16:55

this broader terrogram community. The

1:16:57

FBI disrupted a plot by

1:16:59

them. An 18-year-old is accused

1:17:01

in a plot to destroy

1:17:04

a PSNG power plant. Authorities

1:17:06

would arrest around a dozen

1:17:08

people allegedly tied to the

1:17:10

group, including Dallas Humber and

1:17:12

Matthew Allison. They were charged

1:17:14

with leading a transnational terrorist

1:17:16

organization, encouraging hate crimes and

1:17:18

terrorist attacks. Are these arrests

1:17:20

the end of telegram? Pete

1:17:22

Cimi. You may have a

1:17:25

collapse specifically of this particular

1:17:27

network, but is that the

1:17:29

end? Absolutely not. Neo-Nazis walk

1:17:31

through Nashville. Conspiracy by white

1:17:33

supremacist to attack a portion

1:17:35

of the Northwest Power Grid.

1:17:37

These groups come and go

1:17:39

all the time. The group

1:17:41

chanting white power and other

1:17:44

racially provocative language. And unfortunately,

1:17:46

there's no indications that these

1:17:48

ideas and emotions and practices

1:17:50

that are associated with things

1:17:52

like terrograms are going anywhere.

1:17:54

Hate crimes have been on

1:17:56

the rise for the past

1:17:58

several years. Especially given... the

1:18:00

broader climate that exists within

1:18:03

our society. There will be

1:18:05

new telegrams that take its

1:18:07

place by another name and

1:18:09

we will continue to see

1:18:11

this kind of extremism propagated

1:18:13

through platforms of various sorts

1:18:15

not just telegram. The US,

1:18:17

UK, and Australia have officially

1:18:19

designated telegram as a transnational

1:18:21

terrorist group. And telegram, the

1:18:24

platform. is facing its own

1:18:26

troubles. Pavoldurov has been arrested

1:18:28

for allegedly failing to moderate

1:18:30

criminal activity on the platform.

1:18:32

So in August 2024 we

1:18:34

saw the founder of telegram,

1:18:36

Pavoldurov, arrested and charged on

1:18:38

the basis of alleged complicity

1:18:40

in the spread of a

1:18:43

range of different illegal content

1:18:45

on this platform from charged

1:18:47

sexual abuse material through to

1:18:49

engagement in drug trafficking. Milo

1:18:51

Kummerford. This is a hugely

1:18:53

significant moment in really showing...

1:18:55

how far the platform had

1:18:57

come and how authorities were

1:18:59

frustrated by its unwillingness to

1:19:02

take actions. This is really

1:19:04

unprecedented. After Durov's arrest, he

1:19:06

publicly pledged to work more

1:19:08

closely with law enforcement on

1:19:10

action against illegal content on

1:19:12

the platform, including providing IP

1:19:14

addresses in cases of legitimate

1:19:16

warrants being served. Durav

1:19:20

has called the charges misguided

1:19:23

for trying to hold a

1:19:25

CEO personally responsible for crimes

1:19:27

committed by a third party.

1:19:30

telegram told us while it

1:19:32

is still dedicated to upholding

1:19:35

free speech, it now has

1:19:37

around 750 contractors to moderate

1:19:39

problematic content. It said since

1:19:42

2022, it is partnered with

1:19:44

a counter-extremism group. to remove

1:19:47

more than 129 million pieces

1:19:49

of content. Telegram is still

1:19:51

one of the more lawless

1:19:54

places. Paragram channels, a lot

1:19:56

of them have disappeared or

1:19:59

gone dark, but you can

1:20:01

still find plenty of awful

1:20:03

content on telegram. Even five

1:20:06

months after Matthew Allison was

1:20:08

arrested, you could still go

1:20:11

on telegram and find all

1:20:13

his racist videos, the ones

1:20:15

urging people to kill, the

1:20:18

assassination manuals. that they took

1:20:20

this content down. Texas and

1:20:23

Florida both pass laws restricting

1:20:25

tech platforms for moderating content

1:20:27

and blocking political views. Does

1:20:30

the First Amendment protect these

1:20:32

companies Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, from

1:20:35

curating content? For years now,

1:20:37

social media companies have sort

1:20:39

of been trying to balance

1:20:42

two things, how to make

1:20:44

their platforms safe? and then

1:20:47

also how to give people

1:20:49

a place where they can

1:20:52

express themselves. Republicans have argued

1:20:54

there's too much content moderation

1:20:56

on social media. Democrats often

1:20:59

say there is not enough.

1:21:01

The debate recently has been

1:21:04

about whether the policing of

1:21:06

content has gone too far

1:21:08

and whether content moderation basically

1:21:11

amounts to censorship. Hundreds of

1:21:13

Twitter accounts belonging to far-right

1:21:16

activists in Qenanan theorists have

1:21:18

been reinstated. That debate is

1:21:20

going to keep going. We're

1:21:23

going to get rid of

1:21:25

fact checkers and replace them

1:21:28

with community notes. But this

1:21:30

is what the telegram story

1:21:32

is about. It's the extreme

1:21:35

end of all this. What

1:21:37

do you do as a

1:21:40

company when you have people

1:21:42

on your platform saying, let's

1:21:44

go kill folks, let's assassinate

1:21:47

people, let's do sabotage and

1:21:49

terrorism? How do you deal

1:21:52

with that? Recall

1:21:57

upon governments around the

1:22:00

to bring an end

1:22:02

to hate speech and

1:22:05

the politics of fear.

1:22:07

What we've seen through

1:22:09

the telegram story is

1:22:12

that there are consequences

1:22:14

to unfettered free speech,

1:22:17

to having influencers out

1:22:19

there advocating violence or

1:22:22

mass murder. Thousands

1:22:25

of people gathered an individual

1:22:27

in Slovakia to commemorate two

1:22:29

people killed outside of Gabar.

1:22:31

A Slovakian official says, it's

1:22:33

not us and them. Hate

1:22:36

crimes are against all of

1:22:38

us. If you look at

1:22:40

what happened over the last

1:22:42

five years, you have to

1:22:44

ask a question, what heavily

1:22:47

reaped as a result of

1:22:49

this? What new whirlwind are

1:22:51

we throwing ourselves into? I

1:22:59

just don't get it.

1:23:02

Someone inside him to

1:23:04

do the wrong thing.

1:23:06

I don't see into

1:23:08

the heads of radicals.

1:23:10

What in their brain

1:23:12

tells them to load

1:23:15

a gun and fire

1:23:17

at people? I just

1:23:19

don't get it. Someone

1:23:21

inside him to do

1:23:23

the wrong thing, and

1:23:25

he followed. The question

1:23:28

is, why? Go

1:23:38

to pbs.org/frontline for more reporting from our

1:23:40

partners at ProPublica. Telegram much like the

1:23:43

chance was a platform where almost anything

1:23:45

went. And see more of our collaborations

1:23:47

on extremism in America. Tell me about

1:23:49

your t-shirt. What do you say in

1:23:52

here? What do you mean by that?

1:23:54

You're down for fascism. Is that what

1:23:56

you're saying? Connect with... on Facebook,

1:23:59

Instagram, and X, and

1:24:01

stream anytime on

1:24:03

the PBS app, any

1:24:06

or PBS .org, app, YouTube, or

1:24:08

pbs.org/frontline. The Rise and Fall of Terrorogram

1:24:10

was directed by The Rise

1:24:13

and Fall of

1:24:15

Terragram was directed by

1:24:17

Thomas Jennings and

1:24:19

Annie by Thomas written by

1:24:22

Thomas Jennings and Wong,

1:24:25

and produced by Annie Wong, Thomas

1:24:27

Jennings, and A .C. Thompson. The

1:24:29

correspondence were AC Thompson and James

1:24:32

Bandler, and the senior producer was

1:24:34

Dan Edge. The managing editor of

1:24:36

were A .C.

1:24:38

Thompson and James Metz.

1:24:40

and the senior

1:24:42

producer was Dan

1:24:44

and The managing

1:24:46

editor of Frontline is Andrew

1:24:48

Metz. The executive producer

1:24:50

and editor -in -chief

1:24:53

of Frontline is of Frontline

1:24:55

is Rainy Aronson Roth.