0:00

This is a global

0:02

player original podcast. Hello, James, here,

0:04

just before we get into the

0:06

latest brilliant episode of Full Disclosure,

0:09

I wanted to give you a

0:11

quick heads up about a brand

0:13

new podcast I've been doing, James

0:15

O'Brien Daily. It's a condensed 60-minute

0:18

highlights reel of some of my

0:20

favourite bits from the Daily LBC

0:22

show, some of my favourite calls,

0:24

some of my favourite there I

0:27

say monologues and some of my

0:29

favourite questions. There's a new episode

0:31

every day, as you'd expect, from

0:33

a Daily Radio Show. or of

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course just listen live to LBC

0:38

every day from 10am. But for

0:40

now, enjoy this episode of Full

0:43

Disclosure. Hello and welcome

0:45

to Full Disclosure, a

0:48

podcast project conceived entirely to

0:50

let me spend more time with interesting

0:52

people than I would ever get on

0:54

the radio show. 10 years younger than

0:57

me Stephen frame but goodness me you've

0:59

crammed a lot into your life so

1:01

we'll get through as much of it

1:04

as we can. Of course I should

1:06

stress at the beginning for people who

1:08

are going Stephen Who is that you

1:11

are the artist formerly known as Dynamo

1:13

and we will get later into the

1:15

reasons as to why you no longer

1:18

are but but I want to

1:20

begin in Bradford in 1982 on

1:22

the Delph Hill estate where you

1:24

were born. to a single mom,

1:26

to your mom Nikki. And we

1:28

often talk on full disclosure about

1:30

how we only have one

1:32

childhood. We only have the childhood

1:35

that we lived. We've got no

1:37

way of knowing at the time

1:39

whether it was different or ordinary

1:41

or. But you've sort

1:44

of subsequently realized that

1:46

life was pretty tough, I think.

1:48

Yeah, I think I grew up

1:50

on a counselor state, which is

1:52

quite a... normal thing for a

1:54

lot of people actually more I

1:56

guess the majority really and when you're

1:59

living there you don't fully realise if

2:01

you're poor or if you're rich and

2:03

because the people in your surroundings are

2:05

also in similar backgrounds you know like

2:07

you know my dad went to jail

2:09

when I was young but it wasn't

2:11

uncommon for people in my area to

2:13

also have parents that were locked up

2:15

or single parent families so and then

2:17

you know we didn't have a lot

2:19

of money but neither of the next

2:21

door neighbors so when you're just surrounded

2:23

by that you don't feel particularly any

2:25

different things if anything you feel the

2:27

struggle in the parents because you see

2:29

that they're grafting adult adult

2:32

life looks really difficult when you're when

2:34

you're a kidding you kind of want

2:36

to keep keep young forever you know

2:38

it's I think it's only as I've

2:41

got older and I've been fortunate enough

2:43

to be able to travel the world

2:45

and share a magic with people in

2:47

places and ever would imagine being that

2:49

I fully appreciate the struggles my momma

2:52

to go through. and my family and

2:54

you know and people in them similar

2:56

backgrounds. You didn't have much to do

2:58

with your dad growing up I don't

3:00

think? Not really. He went to

3:03

jail he was in and out even

3:05

before I was born and then

3:07

he went to jail quite early on

3:09

when I was three or four years

3:12

old and I never saw him

3:14

after that until I was 19 I

3:16

saw him briefly he contacted my grandma

3:18

actually it's wanting to meet me

3:20

and I I met him and kind of

3:23

didn't really keep in touch

3:25

that much after that. It was

3:27

just I think it's slightly weird

3:29

because I was already a young

3:31

adult myself and I'd kind of

3:33

gone through so much of my

3:36

life without someone in my

3:38

life. So it just felt like

3:40

really forced trying to maintain

3:42

any type of relationship and

3:45

then yeah and also he

3:47

he wasn't necessarily he hadn't

3:49

being changed his ways since

3:51

being inside and I was just

3:53

starting to you know just got

3:56

my princess trust business start up

3:58

alone I was to kind of

4:00

you know take a good path forwards

4:03

and I didn't feel it was like

4:05

the wisest idea to to have him

4:07

around and everything that comes with him.

4:09

And you've always had... other family members

4:11

providing you with the security that all

4:14

children need and indeed as we'll get

4:16

on to with the male role model

4:18

that benefits an awful young lads as

4:20

well. My grandma, it was actually my

4:23

great grandpa. So your mom's granddad? Yes,

4:25

yeah, my mom's grandpa and dad, they

4:27

didn't live in... In England they moved

4:29

to America. There's a line coming up

4:31

later in this interview where one of

4:34

us will say. they had 17 award-winning

4:36

Golden Retrievous. Yes, no, no, no. So,

4:38

yeah, so, so, so, so my mum's

4:40

mom, my Anna Lynn, she, she moved

4:43

to America when I was really young

4:45

with Martin, my granddad, because Martin, he

4:47

was working for a British company that

4:49

got bought out by American company, and

4:52

then he got moved to the states

4:54

to, to basically run the companies in

4:56

America, so he ran it in Virginia

4:58

for many years, and then now is...

5:00

based in Memphis Tennessee and they've been

5:03

there ever since I've got green cars

5:05

and everything and when my Nana moved

5:07

out there she started breeding golden retrievers

5:09

she loves dogs 19 not 17 well

5:12

she had 19 award-winning golden retrievers when

5:14

I was when I was 18 I

5:16

went out there and stayed with her

5:18

and did all the dog shows over

5:20

and everything helped to groom in the

5:23

dogs and Yeah, it's such a weird

5:25

thing when I think about it. But

5:27

she's got more now because they've got

5:29

litters of puppies. So they've got like

5:32

nine champion dogs and then they've got

5:34

all the litters that come every few

5:36

months. So yeah, that's that's really a

5:38

thing for my life. That's incredible. And

5:40

because your mom was like, she was

5:43

seven. I think when she had you,

5:45

it wouldn't feel like a great-granddad. It

5:47

would feel more of an age that...

5:49

It was always just grumps. It was

5:52

always monotonous grumps who were actually my

5:54

great-grandparents, but they were the main constant,

5:56

like when... My mom was obviously young

5:58

and then I was... as she got

6:00

older she went to college and she's

6:03

trying to you know find herself in

6:05

life so often my grandparents or my

6:07

great grandparents would be the ones who

6:09

look after me oh my auntimo my

6:12

mom's sister but um but yeah you

6:14

know it was kind of like it's

6:16

it must be a strange thing you

6:18

know being a child raising a child

6:20

you know what I mean like I

6:23

can't like I think it's very hard

6:25

to understand what that feels like it's

6:27

also when I look at my mom,

6:29

like my father was, you know, was

6:32

Patan, so I'm a mixed-based child and

6:34

my mom was with him in a

6:36

time in Bradford when it was not,

6:38

you know, when it's quite frowned upon,

6:41

you know, like when there were a

6:43

lot of the tensions were in the

6:45

air in Bradford, but in those times

6:47

back in 1982. I mean, I'm prior

6:49

to that. So like, in some ways,

6:52

you know, people have asked me, like,

6:54

like, Where does your determination, your like

6:56

kind of resilience to put yourself out

6:58

there come from? And I never used

7:01

to really know, but I think actually

7:03

when I think about it, it's from

7:05

my mom because, you know, she was

7:07

going against the grain when she was

7:09

growing up. You know, she, I know

7:12

many people told her obviously I was

7:14

inside her so I couldn't. I couldn't

7:16

quite hear exactly what people were saying.

7:18

But I know that she told me,

7:21

like people were saying that she should

7:23

get rid of me before I was

7:25

even born, you know, it wasn't a

7:27

good idea to bring me into the

7:29

world. Because you were going to be

7:32

mixed race. Because I was mixed race

7:34

in the world that they lived in,

7:36

you know, like we were on quite

7:38

a white counselor state. You know, from

7:41

the age of, well, up until the

7:43

age of 15, I was advised by

7:45

family members, if anyone asked just say

7:47

that you say that you say that

7:49

you say that you're say that you're

7:52

white, that you're white. It was only

7:54

as I got older and started to

7:56

kind of just embrace my ethnicity and

7:58

kind of just, you know, we moved

8:01

to different council states where there were

8:03

more, you know, where there was a

8:05

good mixture of cultures there and suddenly

8:07

I started to feel like I belonged

8:09

more in those areas and then fast

8:12

forward, you know, years later, I... my

8:14

wife and ironically she is a similar

8:16

mix she's half Irish and half mixed

8:18

but you know like but with her

8:21

I've never had to hide it I've

8:23

never had to pretend you know it's

8:25

just you know it's just you know

8:27

it's just normal this is who you

8:30

are yeah there's something there though isn't

8:32

there probably for the amateur psychologist about

8:34

about covering things up or misleading people

8:36

yeah yeah but I think you know

8:38

I think as a magician you know

8:41

there's a lot of secrets I got

8:43

to keep anyway if I can just

8:45

Let go of everything else. That will

8:47

make my life so much easier. So

8:50

there was a lot of love growing

8:52

up then, despite the sort of slightly

8:54

fractured family background. There was lots of

8:56

love. You mentioned your mum says to

8:58

your aunt or your grandpa. Yeah, my

9:01

auntie adored me. I know my auntie

9:03

struggled for years to have her own

9:05

child. So like she always said that

9:07

I was like, I was her first

9:10

in some ways. Yeah, my my grandparents,

9:12

they absolutely adored me. It was definitely

9:14

like, I was quite sheltered, you know,

9:16

because the areas we lived in, it

9:18

wasn't the sort of place where you

9:21

just go out and kick a football

9:23

around and play football unless you want

9:25

to come back, like, you know, without

9:27

your trainers or whatever. Do you know

9:30

what I mean? Yes. And I'm not

9:32

even like, I'm not even perpetrating in

9:34

a stereotype there. There's literally like, like,

9:36

my house was in the documentary. I

9:38

didn't have a parent along to sign

9:41

a release form so I wasn't actually

9:43

in it. But there's a documentary called

9:45

on the bedline. It was an amazing

9:47

documentary. You can still find it on

9:50

YouTube. And that is your... Yeah, that

9:52

literally, like, they were on my next

9:54

story, but like the grants, the trotters,

9:56

they were like, they were the people

9:58

that I grew up with and you

10:01

kind of really get a feel for

10:03

what it's like to be a child

10:05

living in those areas in that time.

10:07

Yes. I don't think people will fully

10:10

understand it, even to this day, because

10:12

life's changed so much. but yeah you

10:14

know it's I look I've watched that

10:16

documentary so many times I actually want

10:18

to try and track down all the

10:21

people that were in it now because

10:23

a lot of them I knew growing

10:25

up and it'd be really interesting to

10:27

see how they turned out you know

10:30

and so if anybody wants to make

10:32

that show hit me up but yeah

10:34

it's it's I just think I look

10:36

back on all these things and I

10:39

actually feel like I'm quite lucky yeah

10:41

because I got to experience so much

10:43

so much that has given me a

10:45

foundation to be able to in some

10:47

ways deal with anything? I wonder if

10:50

you had to, because some of the

10:52

stories you've told, even before we get

10:54

to school, your sixth birthday party, you

10:56

said mum will go and nobody turned

10:59

up, because other parents at primary school

11:01

didn't want to bring their kids to

11:03

the estate where you lived. Yeah, yeah,

11:05

but I didn't know that that was

11:07

the reason. I never had a birthday

11:10

party party before. Right. My mom arranged

11:12

it, we lived in, we actually lived

11:14

in a high-rise flat at the time,

11:16

similar to like a Grenfell type building.

11:19

And yeah, nobody came to the party.

11:21

I later, obviously, as I got older

11:23

and, you know, realized that they didn't

11:25

come because nobody wanted to come to

11:27

the area that we lived in. My

11:30

mom had got me, I got a

11:32

six pack of Kinder Surprise eggs. And,

11:34

you know, for me, like say, I...

11:36

I'd never had a birthday party so

11:39

I didn't necessarily know what to expect

11:41

so when no one turned up, other

11:43

than my family members, other than my

11:45

mom and gramps and my mom and

11:47

auntie, like for me that was a

11:50

party still and we spent all afternoon

11:52

building the little toys that you get

11:54

with the kind of supplied eggs and

11:56

it was still you know it's I

11:59

still look back on it fondly is

12:01

one of the best birthday parties I've

12:03

ever had when did you realize that

12:05

from the outside looking in it hadn't

12:07

been when did you put together the

12:10

when I started when I got older

12:12

I went to middle school yeah I

12:14

mean middle school like you know you

12:16

start getting invited to like proper parties

12:19

you know and that's in a middle

12:21

school we had like you know I

12:23

had like a school disco and stuff

12:25

like that and you start to realize

12:28

that parties are full of lots of

12:30

socializing and I got invited to a

12:32

few parties then and I realized then

12:34

there I realized then that there wasn't

12:36

many parties that took place where I

12:39

lived but there was lots you know

12:41

when I when I got like my

12:43

my best friend even to this day

12:45

my best friend Johnny Farley he lived

12:48

in a part of Bradford that was

12:50

a part of Bradford that was a

12:52

badford that was a bit nicer Okay.

12:54

And he had lots of parties and

12:56

I used to, ironically, I wasn't his

12:59

friend when I did this, but when

13:01

I used to go to school early

13:03

on, I would cut through his back

13:05

garden because his garden was next to

13:08

school, but he had quite a lot

13:10

of land. His dad built all the

13:12

houses that I lived in. And basically

13:14

I used to cut through his back

13:16

garden and then one day he caught

13:19

me, but we became friends. And we've

13:21

been friends ever since, like, it's literally

13:23

my oldest friend. This is secondary school

13:25

now. Yeah, second school. Yeah, we had,

13:28

yeah, we had a primary school, middle

13:30

school, and then other school. Yeah, yeah.

13:32

What were you like at primary school?

13:34

What were you like at your lessons

13:36

and stuff like that? Primary school was

13:39

easier than middle school because I think

13:41

ultimately they stole that child like sense

13:43

of wonder that every child has at

13:45

school. And I was... I was always

13:48

kind of excited about the prospect of

13:50

learning and learning new things. I was

13:52

curious. I was even curious. No, I

13:54

was an adult. I think that's... one

13:56

of the things I've tried to keep

13:59

trying to maintain like one of the

14:01

things I've always tried to do since

14:03

leaving school is never stop learning like

14:05

every single day I try to learn

14:08

something new because I think when you

14:10

often stop school you get out of

14:12

a habit of learning in that way

14:14

so like I've always tried to maintain

14:17

it so like in primary school I

14:19

was a kid. and I think that's

14:21

yeah I was I was a kid

14:23

that I was meant to be I

14:25

was I tried everything I failed at

14:28

everything but I didn't care because I

14:30

enjoyed the process middle school was more

14:32

difficult because middle school going obviously through

14:34

adolescence Big documentary as well, by the

14:37

way. Anyone's talking about that? Have you

14:39

seen it? I haven't watched it yet.

14:41

My wife watched it without me, can

14:43

you believe it? No, I can't. That's

14:45

outrageous. So I've got to watch it

14:48

on my own. I watched it last

14:50

night. But yeah, obviously I've seen all

14:52

the stuff online. I've been trying to

14:54

avoid the spoilers. No, you should. But

14:57

yeah, in my adolescence, I was like,

14:59

it was around the time that I

15:01

started to kind of you know, have

15:03

a natural complexion come through. You could

15:05

see I was more mixed to this

15:08

than I was maybe when I was

15:10

younger. Yeah. And also the school I

15:12

went to was predominantly white and the

15:14

area, like the school was a bit

15:17

more kind of, you know, there was

15:19

more kids that had a lot more,

15:21

you know, it was more noticeable via

15:23

the financial divide. Okay. trying to keep

15:25

up with the Joneses there, you know,

15:28

trying to like get the cool trainers

15:30

that everyone else has got, but you

15:32

couldn't really afford them, do you know,

15:34

I mean, so we had to get,

15:37

obviously being known as fakes from the

15:39

market and then you'd get, you know,

15:41

the Mickey taken out of you. But

15:43

also it was the fact that I

15:45

also got diagnosed with clones. How old

15:48

were you in school? I was doing

15:50

tests from age of 12. Because something

15:52

was wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it

15:54

was like I felt like everybody shot

15:57

up through puberty and I stayed stagnant

15:59

and we didn't understand what it was

16:01

and then you know I was in

16:03

all these tests and because I was

16:06

smaller than all the other kids and

16:08

everyone else was getting bigger I became

16:10

the easy target you know I was

16:12

a kid that everyone could push around

16:14

and yeah it's almost identical isn't it

16:17

so you've not got the trainers you're

16:19

smaller than everybody else got darker skin

16:21

than most of the kids in class

16:23

if you had to make a list

16:26

of targets. Oh yeah and then you

16:28

know it's tough it all off you

16:30

know I started learning magic tricks which

16:32

wasn't the coolest thing at the time

16:34

you know it's not like I kind

16:37

of set myself up to fail there

16:39

I didn't make it easy for myself

16:41

well you've done all right yeah no

16:43

I don't know right now and actually

16:46

I look even I even look back

16:48

on the bullying and I'm in some

16:50

way in a weird way yeah slightly

16:52

thankful but I had to deal with

16:54

it. It's

16:58

a weird one, isn't it? Because sometimes

17:00

phrases like character forming or whatever we

17:02

reach for can be camouflage, that there

17:04

can be ways of pretending that things

17:06

didn't harm you and didn't hurt you

17:09

when in fact they did. But you

17:11

seem to have quite a healthy approach

17:13

to this. You've spoken about it before

17:15

and we should, I don't want to

17:18

gloss over it, it was proper bullying

17:20

and you were beaten up every day.

17:22

Especially when we went up to upper

17:24

school. You'd fit in bins and things

17:27

like that. Yeah, I got I got

17:29

fun in the bin every single day.

17:31

We had these two big hills at

17:33

the school and they'd take me to

17:35

the top of them. You can say

17:38

what they were called. Yeah, we called,

17:40

they were two big holes, we called

17:42

them the Tits and basically I got

17:44

taken to the top of them and

17:47

put in the bin and kicked down

17:49

the hill every day. As well as

17:51

other things, you know, like, I was

17:53

still... one of the smaller kids so

17:56

it's very easy to stick me inside

17:58

a locker you know very easy to

18:00

like I mean these sound like cliched

18:02

things but they they they just real

18:04

things that would happen every day at

18:07

school was there much malice or had

18:09

it just become Some people, some people

18:11

was malice, yeah, definitely some people that

18:13

was malice. Yeah, there's, there was, some

18:16

of it was just like typical playground

18:18

stuff. And you're unlucky that you are

18:20

barely five stone, it's smaller than everybody

18:22

else, but there's a difference isn't there

18:25

between being on the end of what's

18:27

almost a form of physical banter and

18:29

being on the end of maliciousness. There

18:31

was genuine like malice from people who,

18:33

who... I mean I know they ended

18:36

up getting suspended these guys but that

18:38

would shake me down every day and

18:40

take the dinner when you're in a

18:42

voucher for me because we were on

18:45

vouchers for a while for one was

18:47

on benefits and that but then we

18:49

were on the vouchers for a while

18:51

and then I'd often get maybe given

18:54

like a pound to get someone from

18:56

a tuck shop and then the voucher

18:58

and there was at least a couple

19:00

of weeks where I didn't eat I'd

19:02

literally have to get a scollop buddy

19:05

for 40 in pence because my money

19:07

and my voucher have been taken off

19:09

me so I managed to like hold

19:11

on to like you know 14p which

19:14

thankfully there's a there was a chip

19:16

here called Colin does owned by Colin

19:18

and Linda and my mom's a hairdresser

19:20

so she used to do their hair

19:23

so they used to always you know

19:25

give me like you know scollop buddy

19:27

and stuff like that for next to

19:29

nothing. I think for people who don't

19:31

have a background in Yorkshire I should

19:34

explain that a scollop is like a

19:36

large battered slice of potato slice of

19:38

like a bomb cake or a bomb

19:40

that has different names. Also you could,

19:43

up north, I don't know if this

19:45

is a thing in London anywhere, but

19:47

you can get a bag of scraps,

19:49

which is just like the, it's like

19:52

the off cuts of the batter, but

19:54

it's like crisps almost, they're really nice.

19:56

They are really nice, I'm not sure

19:58

they're very good for you. I don't

20:00

sense that you'd be going home in

20:03

tears every night or anything like that,

20:05

or anything like that. But I kind

20:07

of hid it from everybody. Yeah. It

20:09

got spotted by my grandpa by accident

20:12

when he came and picked me up

20:14

Monday from school and he saw it

20:16

happen after school. He didn't really say

20:18

anything about it straight away but as

20:21

we were walking home he kind of

20:23

said listen I've seen what's going on

20:25

and I want to help you. Fend

20:27

it off. So you think he's going

20:29

to show me some moves? I thought

20:32

I thought he was going to be

20:34

Mr. Meaggen, I'm going to learn karate.

20:36

Wax on, wax off. Like even I

20:38

was going to get me to like

20:41

clean his house and send him learning

20:43

something. You know what I mean? But

20:45

now he taught me, he taught me

20:47

some magic techniques. They're actually, really old

20:50

vaudeville techniques that were... famously used by

20:52

this act as a lady called the

20:54

Georgia Magnet. She was a very like,

20:56

she was a small lady, probably similar

20:58

stature to me when I was younger,

21:01

but she'd, these abilities that she'd developed

21:03

where she could like stand and have

21:05

stand. with like above 20 strong men

21:07

pushing towards her and they couldn't move

21:10

her. You know, she made herself like

21:12

an immovable force and she did like

21:14

all the carny kind of torch and

21:16

doing all the like, all the circus

21:19

events basically as one of the acts

21:21

and you know, like you can go

21:23

online and search her like some of

21:25

her stuffs amazing and my grandpa taught

21:27

me some techniques which I later found

21:30

out were similar to the type of

21:32

stuff she was doing and it's ways

21:34

of making me you know immovable which

21:36

you know definitely came in handy I

21:39

didn't think it was going to work

21:41

though like I thought this is just

21:43

gonna this is going to double the

21:45

pain yeah but when I tried it

21:48

it actually stopped them from moving me

21:50

and I think they thought it was

21:52

a bit weird and it really freaked

21:54

them out to the point where they

21:56

didn't want to be seen to have

21:59

been stumped by me so they just

22:01

spread rumors around playground for hours a

22:03

weirdo but it got people from my

22:05

back and I survived my school years

22:08

and I got I was able to

22:10

finish well I say finish my education

22:12

I didn't really get very good grades

22:14

but it's hardly surprising give them everything

22:17

else it was it was it was

22:19

a struggle each day to get to

22:21

learning yeah You know, and you still

22:23

wanted to, so that, you said something

22:25

when you were talking about primary school,

22:28

there's just something about that being the

22:30

child you really were. Yeah, I'm, and

22:32

since then you had to, you couldn't,

22:34

they wouldn't let you be the child

22:37

you really were. Yeah, I've always been

22:39

curious and I love, I love learning

22:41

because I think it's a luxury, you

22:43

know, to the, to a high level.

22:46

You know I got obsessed with reading

22:48

and books early on and you know

22:50

because I didn't go out and play

22:52

that much I would just get lost

22:54

in these worlds in these books and

22:57

you know I'd read things and think

22:59

one day I want to try out

23:01

or one you know maybe I want

23:03

to go I read about Egypt and

23:06

think wow one day maybe I'd get

23:08

to Egypt and go do magic there

23:10

still not happened yet but maybe one

23:12

day I haven't been to Egypt yet.

23:15

Your grandpa Kenith who had been in

23:17

the Navy. Yes. Where did he get

23:19

his interest in all the Vaudeville stuff

23:21

from? Do you know? I actually think

23:23

that it was from being in the

23:26

Navy as in like, you know, you

23:28

know, I know that obviously because it

23:30

was in World War II, so, you

23:32

know, but I would assume, obviously I

23:35

would assume, obviously I would assume that

23:37

there was a lot of... downtime down

23:39

time where where the troops would try

23:41

and keep the morale high with one

23:44

another by doing silly things and you

23:46

know and because from what my Nana

23:48

said he didn't go to the war

23:50

knowing these things but when he came

23:52

back he would you know entertain people

23:55

in the bar and stuff like that.

23:57

Did anyone, because I know you had

23:59

a bit of a speech impediment as

24:01

well, as if we haven't listed. I

24:04

mean, I still do a little bit.

24:06

I still can't fully pronounce my ours.

24:08

I don't in fact sound like an

24:10

R or W to everyone else. It's

24:13

so loud and R to me. But

24:15

I think as a northern, as a

24:17

Yorkshire person, like, like, I'd kind of

24:19

continue to some of the speech therapy

24:21

in order to try and, you know,

24:24

you know, to speak a bit clear,

24:26

especially with doing television and stuff like

24:28

that. But even now I have to

24:30

consciously think about it. If I go

24:33

back to Yorkshire to Bradford for a

24:35

couple of days, literally I come back

24:37

to London and nobody understands what I'm

24:39

saying. Go native. Yeah, totally. You won't

24:42

believe this, but my dad's from Leeds

24:44

and my mom's from Sheffield. Oh yeah.

24:46

And when I was first living in

24:48

the Midlands. and I don't think I

24:50

don't think I have had a Yorkshire

24:53

accent because dad was a journalist and

24:55

we moved around a lot but I

24:57

was playing Joseph in the school play

24:59

and I used to say far instead

25:02

of the I don't know whether it

25:04

was because of yeah I think it's

25:06

just you know But I remember watching

25:08

the woman playing the innkeeper, the girl

25:11

playing the innkeeper, Julie, and I couldn't

25:13

believe how quickly her tongue came in

25:15

and out of her mouth when she

25:17

was going, there isn't any room at

25:19

the inn and I'm thinking I'm never

25:22

ever going to be able to do

25:24

that. I'm never going to get that

25:26

angle getting my tongue. I still struggle

25:28

with it now. I do think it

25:31

is partly a Yorkshire thing. Might be.

25:33

I've never thought of that before. Did

25:35

anyone recognize your intelligence? Mrs.

25:37

Wilcox at school and Mr. Smith, they

25:40

were kind of, like, Miss Wilcox, she

25:42

did the English classes and she knew,

25:44

I think she knew I had a

25:46

bit of a difficult time, you know,

25:49

outside of class, so she'd often let

25:51

me stay behind and look at all

25:53

the. but she definitely saw something in

25:55

me. She was the first teacher to

25:58

get me to get up in front

26:00

of a class and she let me

26:02

just stay in there rather than go

26:04

out and play with the kids. I

26:07

had to stay in the library and

26:09

just read. And sometimes eventually she'd let

26:11

me take books home as well because

26:14

she wasn't allowed to necessarily take the

26:16

books at home but she started to

26:18

let me take books home. So she

26:20

definitely saw something in me. She was

26:23

the first teacher to get me to

26:25

get up in front of a class

26:27

and show... kids magic for entertainment purposes.

26:29

Okay. So you had, I think you've

26:32

said this, I'm not claiming that I've

26:34

got some massive insight, but you had

26:36

almost a sense of frustrated creativity that

26:38

you couldn't get out of yourself through

26:41

traditional so you wouldn't get it from

26:43

trying to write a poem or a

26:45

story, but you still had a sense

26:48

that you wanted to do something creative.

26:50

Yeah, just I think... I don't even

26:52

think I was frustrated because I don't

26:54

think I realised myself. No, fair enough.

26:57

I think it was more of a

26:59

sense of I hadn't found my voice.

27:01

Yeah. You know, I was always down

27:03

for trying stuff. I tried for the

27:06

football team, I tried BMX in, skateboarding,

27:08

believe it or not. I played for

27:10

the school rugby team. I definitely wasn't

27:13

built for sport like that. What position?

27:15

I was a winger, so I was

27:17

fast in it. I was fast. So

27:19

I was used to winning away from

27:22

people. So yeah, I played, I only

27:24

played for the rugby team because at

27:26

the time, my mum's, my mum's partner,

27:28

he, he wasn't the nicest person to

27:31

me and he'd always call me a

27:33

sissy girl and he'd say, you know,

27:35

because I wasn't necessarily like, I didn't

27:37

feel like I was built for sport

27:40

per se. So I didn't really. play

27:42

them much and he always would say

27:44

that you know you need to kind

27:47

of you know get involved in sport

27:49

so to appease him I joined the

27:51

rugby team which was a big mistake

27:53

and thing is Bradford is was at

27:56

the time a big rugby team a

27:58

big rugby town you know badford were

28:00

the big team, you know, some of

28:02

our friends, you know, like Leon Price,

28:05

so that, you know, went on to

28:07

become like, would be legends. So it's

28:09

not like, it's not like a weird

28:11

sport for me to pick in Bradford,

28:14

but it was a weird sport for

28:16

me to pick due to my statue

28:18

and due to everything else going on.

28:21

So you had friends, I mean, even

28:23

though you were getting battered every break

28:25

time or rolled down a hill, in

28:27

a bin, but you had, because you

28:30

mentioned a couple of people now, you

28:32

mentioned Johnny Fairley, you've mentioned... Johnny didn't

28:34

go to my school. He went to

28:36

a nicer school. He went to a

28:39

school, like, it was a few, it

28:41

was in Kleki and his school, which

28:43

is a little while away away from

28:46

from where... But you weren't lonely, is

28:48

what I'm driving at, or were you?

28:50

I had... a small circle of people

28:52

like because Johnny went to a different

28:55

school often you know I would see

28:57

him after school right or I just

28:59

hang out in his garden so he

29:01

got home from his school after I've

29:04

got because he's because he's My school

29:06

was literally next door to his house.

29:08

So I could go and you know,

29:10

like just chilling his garden. You know,

29:13

he had to trampoline in the garden.

29:15

So, you know, didn't have that on

29:17

the estate where I was. So I'd

29:20

go and just, I'd rather go there

29:22

than go back home to the point

29:24

where his mom and dad gave me

29:26

a spare key to the house. So

29:29

I could just go wherever I've still

29:31

got a spare bedroom there. And then

29:33

at school, they were friends. but they

29:35

were friends by default. Okay. Because everybody

29:38

from Delphill estate, although when you're on

29:40

the estate, it's every man for himself,

29:42

when you're outside the estate, they kind

29:44

of look after each other. So like

29:47

Wayne Jowett, who lived about four doors

29:49

down from me, he was like a

29:51

friend and we'd sometimes walk. to school

29:54

together and he was a he was

29:56

a tough a lot and he always

29:58

kind of would you know he he

30:00

won't necessarily go out of his way

30:03

to to fight for me but if

30:05

someone was giving our time he'd say

30:07

oh that's enough now you know if

30:09

he saw it he was very measured

30:12

he actually you know he saw me

30:14

get thrown into the dam before we

30:16

del fela state is separated from woodside

30:19

estate by a dam and the dam

30:21

was where all the cool kids would

30:23

go and hang out and one day

30:25

I got invited down there I thought

30:28

I was becoming one of the cool

30:30

kids, but it was all a trick

30:32

to get me there so they could

30:34

form him a damn because they knew

30:37

that I didn't know how to swim.

30:39

So, but when Jared jumped in the

30:41

water and got me out, so like,

30:43

so he is like, you know, he's

30:46

someone who's, he's always going to be

30:48

a solid friend in some respects, but

30:50

it wasn't like a friend out of

30:53

choice, it was a friend by default.

30:55

I understand. see him nowadays you know

30:57

like not as much as I see

30:59

Johnny but you know if I'm doing

31:02

shows you know he'll often still come

31:04

along and you know we keep in

31:06

touch when we can but then there

31:08

was there was friends that I didn't

31:11

realize were friends till years later so

31:13

I remember I told you about the

31:15

guys who were shaking me down yeah

31:17

so they got suspended from school now

31:20

I never knew you know like who

31:22

how you know how that came about

31:24

yeah I got to vote into the

31:27

office one day by mr. Smith and

31:29

he said what's uh you know like

31:31

we've heard what's going on you don't

31:33

have to say anything about yourself but

31:36

we're gonna take the guys aside and

31:38

we're gonna suspend them for a week

31:40

and you know it needs to stop

31:42

happening we're gonna make sure you get

31:45

dinner each day and then they the

31:47

guys who who shake me down they

31:49

assumed it was somebody else who would

31:51

said something and I didn't no so

31:54

you know you know you know you

31:56

know so Years later, I was going

31:58

through my social media. new social media

32:01

by the way dynamo is dead if

32:03

anybody wants to follow me so I

32:05

was going through my social media and

32:07

I got a message from a girl

32:10

called Rachel and it's it's mad

32:12

because growing up Rachel was one of

32:14

the cool girls at school right she

32:16

was you know it's very pretty yeah

32:18

and you know it's almost like I

32:20

would feel like invisible to someone

32:22

like Rachel yeah only reason I

32:25

knew that she knew me briefly

32:27

is because our like houses were

32:29

very, we're in a similar

32:31

area. So when I moved

32:33

from Delphile State to a

32:35

different estate later on, an

32:37

area called Markfield, which is

32:40

a little bit nicer, this

32:42

was the first time we

32:44

actually, my family had bought

32:46

a house. Because your mum

32:48

has set herself up her

32:50

hair dress and everything. And

32:52

then, you know, we had

32:54

like a more stable household.

32:56

So we'd bought a house, moved to

32:58

a slightly nicer area and then Miss

33:01

Go Rachel lived on this street. But

33:03

I was definitely not cool enough to

33:05

talk to her. She was one of

33:08

her, she was definitely one of her

33:10

cool girls. And so years later I'm

33:12

scrolling through social media and she

33:15

messages me saying, oh I'm so glad

33:17

you did so well. And then she,

33:19

you know, we were chatting on the

33:21

DMs and she was basically saying, oh

33:23

yeah, you know, it was me, you

33:25

told the teachers. you know I saw

33:27

it happening. I didn't even know that

33:29

I didn't even remember her being in

33:32

my class right because I was like

33:34

so just concerned about not getting me

33:36

up but I just didn't even notice

33:38

her so you know to think that

33:40

someone like like her one of the

33:43

coolest people in school was looking out

33:45

for me you know she was like a

33:47

guardian angel really so yeah shout out to

33:49

Rachel. It sounds a bit too good to

33:52

be true, doesn't it, in the narrative arc

33:54

of your life, but not long after teaching

33:56

you how to... Is it got a name

33:58

when you... the magnet? when you, does

34:00

it, um, it's just, I guess it's

34:03

just, you know, I'm sticking to the

34:05

ground. Yeah, just, so I think they

34:07

teach extinction rebellion protesters how to do

34:09

something like that as well, so that

34:11

the police find it. Like it was,

34:14

it's all grounded in, grounded in like,

34:16

in old techniques. Yes. So, yeah. And

34:18

not long after that, your grand, your

34:20

grandpa gives you a deck of cards.

34:22

Yeah, well and in the film of

34:24

your life, this is where the music

34:27

starts playing Yeah, yeah, no, it's really

34:29

funny because just before I walked into

34:31

this room I've been editing a video

34:33

for the for my new show and

34:35

I'm doing a 47 live shows of

34:37

Underbelly Boulevard in Soho and I've got

34:40

some of the storytelling moments in it

34:42

I want to be told through video

34:44

So I've just finished making a video

34:46

which is the origin story of the

34:48

dynamo shuffle which I do the opening

34:51

bit is like, you know, once I

34:53

found, you know, once my grandparents used

34:55

to Magic and put a pack of

34:57

cards in my hand, it changed everything.

34:59

But it wasn't until I did this,

35:01

this, this, this and this that my

35:04

style was a born and the dynamo

35:06

shuffle showing you the power in our

35:08

hands. So like, we literally, we, before

35:10

I came in this room, we'd just

35:12

finish making that video. But yeah, like,

35:15

like, you just put cards on my

35:17

hands and I could just do it,

35:19

I could just do it. There was

35:21

always cards around because he would show

35:23

people his magic with cards But the

35:25

cards were really they felt huge because

35:28

I had little hands. I was a

35:30

kid right But then eventually he got

35:32

me a bridge-sized deck of cards which

35:34

I don't know if you'd know that

35:36

there's poker size which is the common

35:39

size that everyone's got that work that

35:41

were actually quite hard to manipulate because

35:43

they're a bit bigger and then there's

35:45

bridge size which is which I made

35:47

for playing the game bridge which are

35:49

a lot smaller they're more kid-friendly size

35:52

cards and you got me a kid-sized

35:54

pack and suddenly yeah that changed everything

35:56

you know I realized... Once it taught

35:58

me a few things. And then I

36:00

started to pick up the shuffling techniques

36:02

and the skills quite naturally. Well this

36:05

is the point. isn't it? And no

36:07

modesty is allowed here because you could

36:09

give a pack of cards to anybody.

36:11

Your grandpa and others must have realized

36:13

pretty quickly that you were a bit

36:16

like learning a language in two days

36:18

that you'd picked up this language incredibly

36:20

quickly. Yeah, I guess it's a bit

36:22

like giving David Beckham a football. Yeah.

36:24

You know, but you can give a

36:26

lot of kids a football but not

36:29

all going to be a kick it

36:31

like Beckham. You know, you know. And

36:33

I think, like it's hard. tried many

36:35

things in my life and I never

36:37

really quite found one that I was

36:40

that good at you know but you're

36:42

still very young I mean a lot

36:44

of people perhaps never find the thing

36:46

that they're brilliant at but you had

36:48

a sense of wanting to I think

36:50

yeah I just feel like and I

36:53

was trying to find the sense of

36:55

belonging okay because I felt I've always

36:57

comfortable in my own skin in some

36:59

respects and I didn't need, you know,

37:01

I got used to not having people

37:04

around, so, you know, I was happy

37:06

with the small family and the small

37:08

group of friends around me, and I

37:10

just, I'd love to get lost in

37:12

books, you know, if anything, more people

37:14

being around would have mean less time

37:17

to read books. So, you know, I

37:19

fell in love with the habit of

37:21

learning and studying, so... I was 24-7

37:23

school in some respects. But yeah, like

37:25

once I started messing with the cards,

37:27

it's almost like I got, I surpassed

37:30

my grandpa's levels in like the first

37:32

week. Right. So yeah, okay. To the

37:34

point where he couldn't really show me

37:36

anymore with cards, but then him I'm

37:38

an Anna. they nurtured it like you

37:41

know they would take me we'd get

37:43

on free buses to go to a

37:45

place called Merlin's in Wakefield and it

37:47

was like a magic shop and like

37:49

York shop and so on and basically

37:51

in the back they had VHS tapes.

37:54

They were a bit like like streaming

37:56

but you know you put it into

37:58

a little box on the guitar, right?

38:00

Put him on listening, you don't know

38:02

what a VHS tape is. So like

38:05

so they have VHS tapes of like

38:07

magic tutorials and like there was this

38:09

set called the Encyclopedia of Card Slights

38:11

by this magician called Darl. Darryl ends

38:13

up becoming one of my favourite magicians

38:15

of all time. He's not alive anymore

38:18

sadly but he was known as the

38:20

Magician Magician and he invented some of

38:22

the greatest card slights that you've, that

38:24

the world's ever seen. Some of them

38:26

I still do to this day and

38:29

I remember to buy one of the

38:31

tapes, they weren't cheap, they were like,

38:33

you know, 15, 20 pound of tape.

38:35

So I was doing a pair pound

38:37

at time, I'd get five pound a

38:39

week for the paper round, so once

38:42

a month we'd go to the shop

38:44

and I'd end up buying one of

38:46

them. But then at Christmas, for surprise,

38:48

my Nana and Gramps got me, I

38:50

had three of the tapes already, they

38:52

got me the full, the other five

38:55

because I was eight in the other

38:57

five in the other five because I

38:59

was eight in the two and... yeah

39:01

it was it literally changed my life

39:03

and then it's weird because I found

39:06

out that Darl because he was from

39:08

America right but I found out he

39:10

was coming to Bradford of all places

39:12

to do a lecture on his skills

39:14

yeah and I tried to get tickets

39:16

but turns out it was for over

39:19

18s and I was only like 13

39:21

or something at the time so then

39:23

I was having Sunday roast at the

39:25

White Lion pub and I got a

39:27

tap on the shoulder and turned around

39:30

and it was Darl and Manana had

39:32

secretly arranged for me to have dinner

39:34

with Darl and I remember like he

39:36

gave me like a master class over

39:38

dinner and literally some of the stuff

39:40

he taught me to this day it's

39:43

still like a staple in my performing

39:45

repertoire. And did you impress him? Did

39:47

you show him some of your moves?

39:49

I'd like to think I did. I

39:51

think there was definitely... I think I

39:54

killed him with enthusiasm. That's what I'll

39:56

say. I don't think I was very

39:58

good, but I just, he could see,

40:00

I think maybe he saw the passion

40:02

that he had for it in me.

40:04

And yeah, that, that was a big

40:07

turning point because suddenly, not only had

40:09

I had like a master class from

40:11

a true master, but I got to

40:13

see, I got to understand just in

40:15

that space of two hour like dinner.

40:17

what it takes to get to that

40:20

level. Right. And I became obsessed with

40:22

trying to return it. Also, it's the

40:24

first time you've connected beyond Bradford, because

40:26

he's American, he's from the other side

40:28

of the world, he's from the tele,

40:31

he's from the screen, and he's sitting

40:33

next to you, and so you begin

40:35

perhaps somewhere deep inside to start thinking

40:37

about the day when you might take

40:39

it, way beyond Bradford. Yeah, like years

40:41

later, years later. I got, he got

40:44

me an invite to the Las Vegas

40:46

Magic Invitational and it was a secret

40:48

society of magicians all bought into this

40:50

hotel, Covisamino Hotel in Las Vegas. It

40:52

was my first ever performance in Vegas

40:55

ever. I was, I was only, I

40:57

think I must have been, I was

40:59

17 at the time, so I wasn't

41:01

even old enough to like... go to

41:03

any of the actual, you know, the

41:05

casino bits. So I was just in

41:08

this, in my, in my hotel room

41:10

at the restaurants and in the, in

41:12

the auditorium, right? And I've got photos

41:14

of me performing there, me and my

41:16

little hoodie performing to all these magicians

41:19

and dabbles there and he's just grinning,

41:21

he's just got like a Cheshire cat.

41:23

Well, he actually, he's standing up, actually,

41:25

I had had had him pick one

41:27

of the cards for the trick I

41:29

was doing. So like, you know, you

41:32

know, you know, you know, I connected

41:34

with somebody but then we stayed in

41:36

contact you know what I mean and

41:38

and it was almost like we were

41:40

long-distance pen pals for many years and

41:42

then the world evolved and suddenly, you

41:45

know, get to a place where you

41:47

can speak to people online nowadays and

41:49

you know, you've got, yeah. So it's

41:51

like Obie One Can Obie to your

41:53

Skywalk? Definitely, definitely. There was him, there

41:56

was, you know, through him, you know,

41:58

I got to meet people like Gregory

42:00

Wilson, who I saw, I thought, I

42:02

looked back. and there's so many forefathers

42:04

that were the role models that like

42:06

I didn't have one father but I've

42:09

had probably 50 60 fathers in my

42:11

lifetime who've coming to my life and

42:13

imparted bits of wisdom bits of knowledge

42:15

that have helped me create the sensibilities

42:17

of who I am today like you

42:20

know Emil from explosion from the youth

42:22

club mapper was the person who introduced

42:24

me to Tony from the Prince's trust.

42:26

and that without that happening I would

42:28

never have got my business started you

42:30

know I would never be created Dynamo

42:33

Modern Magic my first ever company and

42:35

I mean yeah I get it there's

42:37

so many different strands that all come

42:39

together in the right space and I

42:41

think in the new show which kicks

42:44

off on the 28th of March at

42:46

the underbelly solo you are telling some

42:48

of your story as well as doing

42:50

yeah in some ways I'm telling more

42:52

of My personal story then I maybe

42:54

ever have because this is the first

42:57

Stephen Fane show yes, like actually start

42:59

the show with a little video of

43:01

Little Young Stephen Fane I am talking

43:03

about myself in third person now a

43:05

bit weird, but anyway I started a

43:07

video with a young me introducing myself.

43:10

It's so cringe but also it's kind

43:12

of you know people like it and

43:14

That was when I was first auditioning

43:16

to be part of the Bradford Magic

43:18

So because I had to make an

43:21

audition tape, so I had to borrow

43:23

my granddad's camera and get him to

43:25

film it. And I literally, I'm wearing

43:27

like the most cringe. I've

43:29

got a Polo shirt

43:31

right probably like

43:34

you know a little

43:36

cheap one like

43:38

you know just from

43:40

the market right

43:42

and on the Pocket

43:45

here. So where

43:47

this badges on this

43:49

top I'm wearing

43:51

right now. I'd got

43:53

my Nana to

43:55

To basically she used

43:58

to do knitting

44:00

and stuff. So she'd

44:02

made I don't

44:04

know what it's called

44:06

It's like you

44:09

know, we have that

44:11

circle disc and

44:13

you put your things

44:15

when you make

44:17

embroideries I'm going to

44:19

be typing. Yeah.

44:22

Yeah, so she'd embroidered

44:25

a an ace of spades

44:27

and then and then We

44:29

literally stitched it onto the pocket and it

44:31

was so heavy. It made the pocket way

44:33

down But it was but I wanted

44:35

to look perfect for the magic circle audition

44:39

So yeah that we actually start the show with

44:41

a little bit of that There's there's a

44:43

lot of candid stuff in this because I think

44:45

you know I'm at a

44:47

place in my life where I got really

44:50

sick a few years ago where

44:53

as As you

44:56

know as Steven, I was struggling

44:58

to do anything, you know, I

45:00

was struggling to live Right because

45:02

of my illness And it felt

45:04

like such an oxymoron that as

45:06

dynamo I'd go out there and

45:09

do all these incredible things and

45:11

like be overworldly Yeah, and you

45:13

know, so I Had

45:15

to like just take a step back

45:17

and just focus on getting Steven better

45:19

in order to be able to kind

45:21

of you know be able to

45:23

share magic again and In

45:26

the midst of all that, you know,

45:28

I think with all the medication that

45:30

I was on the hospital So at

45:32

one point I was on 28 tablets

45:34

a day plus infusions and although that

45:36

was definitely helping me survive It definitely

45:39

was making me bit loopy because of

45:41

the side effects from all the medication

45:43

And you know, like I was on

45:45

some heavy prescription medication to

45:48

keep me alive, so

45:50

I Just think I

45:53

need I couldn't Play it

45:55

be a character anymore. You know,

45:57

I had to like just say alright I've

46:00

got flaws I'm human if I'm

46:02

going to go back into the

46:04

world people after just I've

46:06

just got to be me and

46:08

hopefully you know the magic I've

46:10

got as Stephen is is good

46:13

enough and this show is the

46:15

first show ever obviously some of

46:17

the best parts of my magic

46:19

came from my dynamo era and

46:21

them bits are gonna you know

46:23

always gonna be there yes of

46:26

course but I just feel like

46:28

I've matured enough to be

46:30

able to let people in? And

46:32

to be the child that you

46:34

always were? Yeah. When you mentioned

46:36

about primary school, you stopped

46:39

being that child when you

46:41

got to middle school. Yeah,

46:43

yeah. I just went to survival

46:45

mode. Yeah. But yeah, like, I

46:47

think I've realised my best

46:50

chance of survival is being me.

46:52

The authentic you. Yeah. So therapy

46:54

thing isn't. Yeah, because you put

46:57

it all out there. If you

46:59

put everything out there, what can they

47:01

do? You know what I mean? If

47:03

they don't, if they don't like me,

47:05

well, that's their problem. That's a them

47:07

problem, not a you problem. We've

47:09

reached the point in your life

47:11

when you began to get known.

47:13

So it happened very quickly. Yeah.

47:16

And you began to get known

47:18

as dynamo. And so my next

47:20

question would have been, why did

47:22

you decide you didn't? You've already

47:24

answered that question. But you must

47:26

have enjoyed. the early success on many

47:28

levels. I mean... It's beyond the world,

47:30

it's dream stuff, isn't really the speed

47:33

and the scale of your success. You

47:35

kid from Bradford, from a councilor state,

47:37

to go from, you know, from getting

47:39

the Prince's trust support, from performing on

47:41

council estates, to royal estates, like literally,

47:43

like... I literally went to the toilet

47:46

at the palace. Do you know what

47:48

I mean? I've got phones as well.

47:50

You know, like, I'm always, you know,

47:52

toilets are quite a sacred place for

47:54

me, you know, I spend a lot

47:56

of time there reading. I think that's

47:58

also why I'm reading. because I literally

48:01

if you if you actually come

48:03

to my house or my magic

48:05

studio like my toilets are like

48:07

libraries right there just books everywhere

48:09

because you know I do I

48:11

come up with a lot of

48:13

best ideas to be honest there

48:15

but I think because I've got

48:17

crones you know I've got to

48:19

make the most of it of

48:21

course you know but yeah like

48:23

I've literally you know I was

48:25

my curiosity I kind of almost,

48:27

you know, it had been spent

48:29

years being almost unfulfilled. And then

48:31

in the short space of a

48:33

few years, you know, it went

48:35

from zero to 100, like, and

48:37

I was, you know, when I

48:39

first came to London, you know,

48:41

I was just excited at the

48:43

prospect of, you know, this is

48:45

where Dizzy Rascos from. You know

48:47

what I mean? He was like

48:49

my music hero at the time

48:51

and then within the space of

48:53

a year, not only had I

48:55

met him, but I'd also phone

48:57

with him for my first ever

48:59

TV show and he, you know,

49:01

we became friends. Do you know

49:03

what I mean? So, you know,

49:05

to then go back to Bradford.

49:07

and see my friends back there

49:09

and tell them all these stories.

49:11

I'll go back, go back to

49:13

Bradford with mixtape that I bought

49:15

off guys selling me mixtape out

49:17

of their backpacks on Oxford Street.

49:19

There was a shop called Dark

49:21

and Cold and Deal Real Records

49:23

where all the London rappers who

49:25

a lot of them are like

49:27

famous now, you know, like, you

49:29

know, you have scepters, you know,

49:32

storms. People used to frequent these

49:34

music shops and then outside of

49:36

them they'd be freestyleing, almost like

49:38

a scene out of eight mile

49:40

of eight mile. right yeah and

49:42

then they'd sell you their mix

49:44

tapes out of the bags and

49:46

that inspired me to make that

49:48

the money I got from the

49:50

princess trust the way I got

49:52

the money out of the princess

49:54

was I told them my plan

49:56

right my plan was I wanted

49:58

to make a magic mix tape

50:00

so I wanted to have my

50:02

own like DVD because this was

50:04

at the time when it was

50:06

2003 so DVDs had just become

50:08

a big thing. And DVDs are

50:10

also a bit like streaming for

50:12

anyone who don't know. If you

50:14

go back in time, there was

50:16

like different levels of streaming, right?

50:18

But yeah, there was a DVDs

50:20

and with the Princess Trust money

50:22

I bought a laptop and a

50:24

camcorder so I could start filming

50:26

and the camcorder I bought and

50:28

the laptop I bought were DVD

50:30

writeable ones so I made all

50:32

these DVDs myself and would put

50:34

me my backpacks, come to London,

50:36

do magic and come and guard

50:38

and do magic outside the music

50:40

shops and then sell my... DVDs

50:42

out of the backpacks and they

50:44

saw a business plan there they

50:46

saw you know this will work

50:48

yeah yeah where they gave you

50:50

the money yeah and we know

50:52

the first DVD we've made saw

50:54

that 8,000 copies this was before

50:56

social media yeah yeah so it

50:58

really is just word of mouth

51:00

yeah and then that ended up

51:02

getting me you know like I'd

51:04

done a few spots like my

51:06

first ever TV spot was a

51:08

show called Terry and Gabby but

51:10

then my big spot came after

51:12

that DVD after that DVD my

51:14

big spot came on Richard and

51:16

Judy. Yeah. And then that got

51:18

seen by Channel 4 and then

51:21

Channel 4 and MTV. I did

51:23

MTV series and I also did

51:25

a Channel 4 show called Dynamo's

51:27

Estate of Mind. Yes. Which was

51:29

inspired by another rapper that I'd

51:31

met outside the record stores called

51:33

Skinnyman. who was a legendary British

51:35

MC and he had an album

51:37

called Council Estate of Mind and

51:39

I became Fenzeman and he kind

51:41

of let me use the name

51:43

Estate of Mind for my first

51:45

show. So you're living your dreams?

51:47

Yeah I was living my dreams

51:49

and then yeah I was flying

51:51

high I got to the point

51:53

though where I don't think I've

51:55

never been like a short kid.

51:57

I've never been, I've never really

51:59

wanted to go to like, you

52:01

know, going on stage is something

52:03

that it's an effort for me

52:05

to do, because I'm not a

52:07

natural performer in that sense. I'm

52:09

quite introverted. I'm, yeah, definitely, I,

52:11

I much prefer the pursuit and

52:13

the learning than the performing aspect

52:15

of it. But when I start

52:17

performing, I mean, some takes over

52:19

being I become a life, you

52:21

know, but, but, but it's a

52:23

culture. very nervous before I go

52:25

on stage. And I think there's

52:27

a different level of impostor syndrome

52:29

that was built up over the

52:31

years of having... Even though you...

52:33

Yeah. Because I like the David

52:35

Becken parallel, you get impostor syndrome

52:37

if you're scoring three kicks from

52:39

40 yards away. Yeah, but I

52:41

think there's that, there's expectation. Okay,

52:43

you know, so you're worried that

52:45

you're going to let people... Yeah,

52:47

because I had so much success,

52:49

so quick, so quick, and I

52:51

had all these TV shows, I'm

52:53

doing all these incredible things, I

52:55

wouldn't leave the house because I

52:57

was scared if I leave the

52:59

house people gonna stop me and

53:01

say he'd do some magic and

53:03

if I'm not as good as

53:05

they'd see me do on TV

53:07

then it all falls apart and

53:10

you know it was yeah like

53:12

that happened and then I do

53:14

these like I'd go through phase

53:16

where I'd gone tall you know

53:18

I did like auto arenas like

53:20

that but then my crones every

53:22

few years tends to come and

53:24

remind me that I've still got

53:26

it. You're mortal. Yeah, and then

53:28

you know, and there's been hospital

53:30

for a while and kind of

53:32

after kind of almost, it's like

53:34

I keep having to have a

53:36

reset. Well, there's two obvious resets,

53:38

I think, isn't it? I mean,

53:40

two prolonged, as far as I

53:42

know, there may have been more

53:44

prolonged periods of hospitalisation. The first

53:46

one, you thought I'm going to

53:48

do dynamo and I'm going to

53:50

be Stephen. So before we go

53:52

on to... Yeah. the killing dynamo

53:54

part will go back a little

53:56

bit but this actually leads us

53:58

to the exact moment after I

54:00

call dynamo right early on when

54:02

I look back now in hindsight

54:04

I realize that every ounce of

54:06

creativity that I've ever put out

54:08

into the world for any of

54:10

my work has always come from

54:12

a dark place Like I've always

54:14

been running away from something and

54:16

channeling the negative times in my

54:18

life. into something positive. You know,

54:20

early on it was abuse from

54:22

my mum's partners, you know, and

54:24

then it was an abuse at

54:26

school, from other school kids, you

54:28

know, it was not being taken

54:30

seriously as I was becoming a

54:32

young adult just because of the

54:34

area I lived in. So I

54:36

couldn't get jobs in the places

54:38

I wouldn't, I couldn't excel in

54:40

the basics of life. So like...

54:42

I was always trying to either

54:44

break stereotypes or try or run

54:46

in a way from something and

54:48

trying to just pour myself into

54:50

something else to make me forget

54:52

about it. But also to try

54:54

and you know like make something

54:56

of myself just to prove everybody

54:59

wrong. And to distract people from

55:01

hurting you. Yeah, totally. So then

55:03

when I was at my lowest

55:05

in hospital a few years ago

55:07

it was highly publicized by the

55:09

news of compounds got loads of

55:11

amazing pictures of me looking amazing

55:13

on all this medication totally disheveled

55:15

my parents had changed I was

55:17

not in a good way and

55:19

I spent 18 months trial in

55:21

medications trying to find something touchwood

55:23

I'm on an amazing medication now

55:25

that the NHS found me and

55:27

I've gone from being on 28

55:29

tablets a day to now I'm

55:31

on just two tablets a day

55:33

which for anybody who goes through

55:35

what I'm going through knows that

55:37

that's a big deal to kind

55:39

of get to be to be

55:41

able to survive on so little

55:43

but like that period you know

55:45

I was so low I was

55:47

suicidal I and over in the

55:49

midst of this my nana my

55:51

grandpa passed in 2012 but my

55:53

nana passed this was 2021 and

55:55

when she passed away the same

55:57

week and she passed my two

55:59

dogs also died. And it was

56:01

like, I started to get my

56:03

strength back, but then suddenly I

56:05

just lost some of the sources

56:07

of strength in my life. And

56:09

I was like, man, like, you

56:11

know what? My nana always called

56:13

me Stephen. My dogs, they know

56:15

that I'm just dad to my

56:17

dogs. So like, I think my

56:19

nana's not around anymore. My grandpa's

56:21

gone. I think I need to

56:23

keep the magic of their legacy

56:25

alive. And I've got to do

56:27

it. you know, in the way

56:29

that they knew me. And I

56:31

think that played a big part

56:33

in me making the decision that,

56:35

okay, dynamo needs to be laid

56:37

to rest with my Nana and

56:39

my dogs. You know, it's not

56:41

the end of everything. But like,

56:43

you know, I realize when my

56:45

Nana died, and my dogs died,

56:48

that although they're gone, their legacy

56:50

of what they did in their

56:52

lifetime still happens like existed and

56:54

I could celebrate that just by

56:56

thinking about it every single day

56:58

and I thought well although I'm

57:00

gonna lay a dynamo to rest

57:02

what I achieved as my older

57:04

ego still happens so existed I

57:06

can still you know so you

57:08

know for it but you know

57:10

but I just felt like it

57:12

was definitely a time to move

57:14

on and and I think the

57:16

only way you know being being

57:18

me but I picked the only

57:20

way to just you know metaphorly

57:22

bury my past I literally buried

57:24

myself alive at the foot of

57:26

the angel of the north yes

57:28

and spoiler you can still watch

57:30

the show Dynamo is dead on

57:32

sky on demand but I did

57:34

survive so the ending is going

57:36

to be a bit of a

57:38

spoiler for you but it's an

57:40

amazing show features some incredible people

57:42

it's an insane show and then

57:44

but then after so so go

57:46

in full circle when you were

57:48

saying about like you know about

57:50

getting to dining was I'd saw

57:52

about three minutes after I'd got

57:54

out of the hall and I'm

57:56

in my Winnebago next to the

57:58

next to the burial site my

58:00

friend Pete came in and he's

58:02

like you did it mate smashed

58:04

it how does it feel and

58:06

I'm like yeah like it feels

58:08

good like it felt weird but

58:10

it feels good but it feels

58:12

good because you know you spent

58:14

like all you know you spent

58:16

months and months and months training

58:18

for something and then it's all

58:20

led up to like what ultimately

58:22

it was two minutes or whatever

58:24

you know it was a super

58:26

quick time and he goes I

58:29

don't know because I realized I've

58:31

left I've left everything in the

58:33

ground like I've left everything that

58:35

I've left all the bad stuff

58:37

really in the ground and I

58:40

was like I'm not sure what

58:42

to do because I'm I'm happy

58:44

like I can't I don't have

58:46

a worry in the world but

58:48

I've never created from a place

58:50

of happiness before so I was

58:52

a little bit lost for a

58:54

while you know it took me

58:56

a while to kind of figure

58:58

out my purpose again, but I

59:00

found it and I and I

59:02

realized and it partly was I

59:04

partly was working towards this whilst

59:06

I was making dynamo is dead

59:08

because I was highlighting the magic

59:10

in other people as I went

59:12

through the journey of the shore

59:15

and speaking to people who'd been

59:17

through similar circumstances and talk about

59:19

how they'd overcome it and it

59:21

was you know it was like

59:23

people like you know, cold play,

59:25

you know, Demi Lovato, you know,

59:27

Raffet O'Roe, Raffet O'Roe, like, phenomenal

59:29

story, like, being in prison for

59:31

crime and didn't commit and did

59:33

serve like 18 years, you know,

59:35

and somehow we managed to find

59:37

the magic in himself to not

59:39

lose himself completely and get out

59:41

and now he's an incredible TV

59:43

shows and he's helping inspire other

59:45

people. Like, so. I realized that

59:48

there was a magic in other

59:50

people and I think I realized

59:52

that from being in hospital like

59:54

the way that NHS rallied around

59:56

and got me back on my

59:58

feet. That's a different type of

1:00:00

magic but I never realized. I

1:00:02

think I'd spend... so much time

1:00:04

focused on the magic that I

1:00:06

do for so many years but

1:00:08

I'd missed out on the magic

1:00:10

of everybody else that's all around

1:00:12

me and now I'm kind of

1:00:14

in that era of my life

1:00:16

and I made a show called

1:00:18

Miracles which came out at Christmas

1:00:21

you can watch that on sky

1:00:23

as well. The Dynamo's Dead had

1:00:25

a lot of famous faces in

1:00:27

it. Yes. But Miracles was about

1:00:29

finding the miracles in the everyday

1:00:31

and we phoned with like, we

1:00:33

phoned with like a guy called

1:00:35

Alan who set up the Bentford

1:00:37

Penguins Football Club, which is a

1:00:39

football club for dancing John Children.

1:00:41

You know, we filmed with a

1:00:43

guy called Ashley at the uprooms,

1:00:45

which is a soup kitchen. He

1:00:47

went there initially as a service

1:00:49

user. He was homeless and needed

1:00:51

food and now he runs the

1:00:53

food department there. You know, we

1:00:56

filmed with a young guy called

1:00:58

Travis from a hometown of Bradford

1:01:00

who when he was nine years

1:01:02

old had a conversation with a

1:01:04

homeless man and then went to

1:01:06

his aunt and said, I'm going

1:01:08

to go home and sell all

1:01:10

my toys and set up a

1:01:12

food bank and that food bank

1:01:14

helps 200 people a month. I

1:01:16

got to showcase and highlight real

1:01:18

magic happening in the world all

1:01:20

around us and I was able

1:01:22

to just share a little bit

1:01:24

of mine along the way but

1:01:26

yeah I think now I realised

1:01:29

that magic is in the ability

1:01:31

to make somebody believing something and

1:01:33

if that is the case then

1:01:35

the ultimate magic you could do

1:01:37

is magic that helps people believing

1:01:39

themselves. So that's where my head's

1:01:41

up right now But yeah if

1:01:43

you like miracles was the first

1:01:45

show first TV show I've made

1:01:47

where I was genuinely like from

1:01:49

a happy place from the so

1:01:51

the creativity was coming from a

1:01:53

positive place And it shows yeah,

1:01:55

and you seem lighter on that

1:01:57

screen. Yeah, and it's exciting like

1:01:59

Like, I don't do it for this stuff,

1:02:01

like this is a quote of

1:02:04

surprise to me, but, you know,

1:02:06

I've been nominated for a Royal

1:02:08

Television Society Award for Best Entertainment

1:02:10

Performance for Miracles, which is, and

1:02:12

it's not, it's not the show

1:02:14

that's been nominated, it's Stephen Thane,

1:02:16

but like, it's, on the nomination

1:02:18

it says, Stephen Thane, so like,

1:02:20

it's my first ever TV show,

1:02:22

Stephen Thane, and I've... I don't know

1:02:24

what you did previously when it came

1:02:26

to I want my own show I

1:02:29

want my own residency I want to

1:02:31

be named amongst those names is phenomenal.

1:02:33

Baby steps. Yeah. One step at a time.

1:02:36

I don't know if you've already

1:02:38

answered this. Probably my last

1:02:40

question and I don't know what

1:02:42

you did previously when it came to

1:02:44

I want my own show I want my

1:02:47

own residency I want to do

1:02:49

the O2 I want to play

1:02:51

the Manchester. Arena, do you have

1:02:53

ambitions in the sense of things

1:02:56

that you still want to tick

1:02:58

off? I mean, again, the big

1:03:00

47 show residency coming up at

1:03:02

the underbelly Boulevard Soho is on

1:03:04

one level, it's a massive deal

1:03:07

because it's Stephen Frane doing it,

1:03:09

not dynamo. But on another level,

1:03:11

you've played much bigger venues than

1:03:13

that before, you've done much bigger

1:03:16

things. Yeah, I mean, I definitely

1:03:18

have ambitions, but I never

1:03:20

pre-plan... what they are. I'm very

1:03:22

impulsive. I like as as my

1:03:25

health has got better I've learnt

1:03:27

to to work within my

1:03:29

limits and I've rather than

1:03:32

overwork myself I say this

1:03:34

about to do 47 shows in

1:03:36

the world but rather than over

1:03:38

commit to too many things I'm

1:03:40

kind of more picking passion projects

1:03:43

that I want to put my

1:03:45

all into and it's always been

1:03:47

a passion project to me to

1:03:49

have like a residency in London

1:03:52

in a like doing the big

1:03:54

arenas and so what it's it's

1:03:56

an amazing feeling but it also

1:03:58

scares me so much. I feel intimidated

1:04:01

by it even to this day. I

1:04:03

know I go there and I'll do

1:04:05

it right. Whereas I actually went to

1:04:07

see a show at the venue underbilly

1:04:09

Boulevard that I'm performing in and I

1:04:11

just it was the first time I'd

1:04:13

ever been in the venue where I'm

1:04:15

like I want to do a show

1:04:17

here because I don't normally go to

1:04:19

venues and want to do shows. I'm

1:04:21

very happy to sit in the background

1:04:23

and just you know I'm comfortable knowing

1:04:26

that I've got the ability to to

1:04:28

to take over the room with some

1:04:30

magic in a second but I'm always

1:04:32

like, you have to push me to

1:04:34

get me to do it. Got it.

1:04:36

But I was like, I love this

1:04:38

venue, like it's perfect for magic. It's

1:04:40

big but small at the same time.

1:04:42

It's, you know, it's 220 people per

1:04:44

sure, but it's, I can, I like

1:04:46

the fact, I can see everybody's faces,

1:04:48

you know, I can be in the

1:04:50

crowd doing magic with people, I can

1:04:52

do magic that 220 people can be

1:04:55

involved in at the same time. So

1:04:57

it's more of an immersive experience, you

1:04:59

know. creating my own world that people

1:05:01

can come into for a long time

1:05:03

like I purposely chose to only do

1:05:05

it in London for the time being

1:05:07

because it's my first long run since

1:05:09

getting better so I want to at

1:05:11

least at least just doing it in

1:05:13

London right now I can go home

1:05:15

each night I can go to my

1:05:17

specialist and my doctors if I need

1:05:19

to in between stuff and I can

1:05:21

you know it's almost like a big

1:05:24

test because I'm touchwood gonna get through

1:05:26

all these shows swimmingly and then you

1:05:28

know my next ambition is to be

1:05:30

able to take the show on the

1:05:32

road you know to be able to

1:05:34

take it to all the places you

1:05:36

know it's it's a show that you

1:05:38

know every city you go to you're

1:05:40

gonna find a venue that's like 200

1:05:42

300 seats of course so it's a

1:05:44

show that can literally go anywhere you

1:05:46

know like my big arena shows it

1:05:48

was very specific where I could take

1:05:50

them you know and it was like

1:05:53

a 14 14 trucks to take the

1:05:55

stage around you know 40 articulated lobbies

1:05:57

you know it was a massive 30

1:05:59

person team you know like I want

1:06:01

I wanted to create a show for

1:06:03

I could put in the back of

1:06:05

my car and travel the world you

1:06:07

know like just basically put it in

1:06:09

a flight case and you know do

1:06:11

magic everywhere. You could do it in

1:06:13

your grandpa sitting room. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,

1:06:15

and it's it's another four circle moment

1:06:17

because when I first moved to London,

1:06:19

so I used to come to London

1:06:22

when I was 15, right, and do

1:06:24

busking in common garden. But I officially

1:06:26

moved here when I was 19. Technically

1:06:28

I've lived in London longer than I

1:06:30

lived in badford now, so I'm 42

1:06:32

now, right. But when I was performing

1:06:34

in common in common in common garden,

1:06:36

garden, I ended up doing magic for

1:06:38

this guy called Sean, for this guy

1:06:40

called Sean. And turns out he was

1:06:42

a manager of a nightclub called Too

1:06:44

Too Much, which is now called The

1:06:46

Box in Soho. And he gave me

1:06:48

my first residency at the box. He

1:06:51

was called Too Too Too Much at

1:06:53

the time. And now my residency, my

1:06:55

first residency, as Stephen Frain, the Underbelly

1:06:57

Boulevard, is literally in the building next

1:06:59

door. to where it all started, where

1:07:01

I did my first of residency. It's

1:07:03

actually owned by the same people who

1:07:05

won the building on the same building

1:07:07

that I'm doing my shows in. So

1:07:09

it is like a four circle moment,

1:07:11

you know, to be able to like

1:07:13

go back and do my residency in

1:07:15

some ways where it all started. Have

1:07:17

you ever been happier? I don't think

1:07:20

so. I think obviously... you know my

1:07:22

shows are coming up, literally my first

1:07:24

show is this week I've got a

1:07:26

lot of things I need to do

1:07:28

to get it ready so there's a

1:07:30

little bit of nervous and apprehension there

1:07:32

but at the same time I I

1:07:34

know what I'm about to share with

1:07:36

people is amazing so yeah I am

1:07:38

the happiest I've ever been and I

1:07:40

think come speak to me after 47

1:07:42

shows I'll probably be the happiest person

1:07:44

you've ever made in your life. You

1:07:46

deserve it. Up close and magical by

1:07:49

the time you hear this will be

1:07:51

Pretty much up and running at the

1:07:53

underbelly boulevard in Soho for as we

1:07:55

may have mentioned just the 48 nights.

1:07:57

Yeah Stephen Frank. Thank you. Thank you

1:07:59

very much This

1:08:10

is a Global player

1:08:12

original podcast