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all you need. Hi everybody,

1:00

Cheryl Atkinson here.

1:02

Welcome to another edition

1:04

of Full Measure After Hours.

1:06

Today, how far can cities

1:08

go to clear out the

1:11

homeless? You know, it's not

1:13

only big cities like New

1:15

York City or Seattle that

1:18

have had to deal with

1:20

a spike in homelessness in

1:22

recent years in recent years

1:24

in recent years. Even many

1:26

smaller towns and cities have

1:28

had to deal with the

1:31

same kind of problem. In

1:33

some ways, when the homeless encampments

1:35

pop up in smaller towns, it's

1:37

even more of a disruption to

1:40

the community. Well, such was the

1:42

case in Grants Pass, Oregon, a

1:44

couple of hours south of Portland,

1:46

where this town became an unlikely

1:49

center point of a Supreme Court

1:51

case that attempted to answer the

1:53

question as to whether cities

1:55

have the right. to move

1:57

homeless encampments from public property.

2:00

This case went on for a

2:02

couple of years. And as you'll

2:04

hear, a lot of towns and

2:06

cities and communities were waiting for

2:09

the answer from the Supreme Court

2:11

case to try to understand whether

2:13

they had the right at all

2:15

to take apart the tent cities

2:18

and the encampments that were popping

2:20

up on public property around the

2:22

country. Or did the homeless people

2:24

have some kind of right to

2:27

be on this public property unencumbered?

2:29

I'll be tackling the issue on

2:31

both sides this week on full

2:33

measure Sunday, March 16th. And in

2:36

today's podcast, you're going to hear

2:38

two views. First of all, the

2:40

ex-mayer of Grants Pass, who found

2:42

this issue largely in her lap,

2:45

it had started a little bit

2:47

before she took office, but throughout

2:49

the four-year course of her term,

2:51

this was something that really dominated

2:54

her tenure there. And then you

2:56

will hear from the current mayor

2:58

of Grants Pass. Both the former

3:00

and current mayor favored moving the

3:03

homeless populations out of the city

3:05

parks where they were gathering in

3:07

bigger numbers But the ousted mayor

3:09

Sarah Bristol she was on the

3:12

side of wanting to establish more

3:14

options for publicly funded shelters in

3:16

the town for the homeless and

3:18

She and several other council members

3:21

were voted out because of their

3:23

stance and a new board voted

3:25

in including the new mayor Clint

3:27

Shef He spoke more in favor

3:30

of not just moving the homeless

3:32

out of the city public parks,

3:34

but taking more of an approach

3:36

of working with private charities, if

3:39

anything, to handle them or to

3:41

house them, rather than putting the

3:43

problem on the shoulders of taxpayers.

3:45

This really divided the community as

3:48

I think it has many other

3:50

cities and towns in America. So

3:52

again in a moment you'll hear

3:54

from the current mayor, Clint Shurf,

3:57

but first the ex-mayer. Sarah Bristol.

4:04

How long were you there? For

4:06

four years. Before we dig in,

4:08

can you explain what it's been

4:10

like to deal with this issue

4:12

the past four years? Yeah, it's

4:14

been a really tough issue to

4:16

deal with. I think our community

4:18

has been really divided over how

4:20

to handle it. So we're basically,

4:22

you know, a community at war

4:24

within itself over this issue. How

4:26

do you think grants pass of

4:28

all places became the center point

4:30

of a debate over what to

4:32

do about the homeless? Yeah, well

4:34

Grant's past doesn't have a homeless

4:36

shelter and I think that that

4:38

was the reason why we became

4:40

the focus of that lawsuit in

4:42

the first place, which was six

4:44

years ago now and unfortunately we

4:46

still don't have a low barrier

4:48

homeless shelter and so and that's

4:50

just part of this community trying

4:52

to come to terms with how

4:54

to handle this situation. What has

4:56

happened in this community? Yeah, I

4:58

mean the Supreme Court decision allowed

5:00

us, allowed the injunction to be

5:03

removed and so we were able

5:05

to move homeless people out of

5:07

our parks and the City Council

5:09

established two locations that were not

5:11

parks, that were city-owned property that

5:13

homeless people could go to, but

5:15

then the new City Council has

5:17

just recently this week overturned those,

5:19

changed the rules anyway on those

5:21

two locations. And you know, the

5:23

implications were a new city council,

5:25

you know, that we had four

5:27

city councilors and myself, out of

5:29

office earlier. Do you think all

5:31

of you all were voted out

5:33

largely over this issue? Two of

5:35

the councilors didn't run again and

5:37

then two were running for re-election

5:39

as well as myself. And yeah,

5:41

I'm sure it had absolutely everything

5:43

to do with this issue. What

5:45

do you think the community was

5:47

displeased with? Because it's my impression

5:49

based on what you just said,

5:51

you were for being able to

5:53

move. the population. Tell me what

5:55

your stance was and why you

5:57

think that didn't fly. Yeah, I've

5:59

been trying to help establish a

6:02

shelter here in grants past because

6:04

I feel that it's important to

6:06

provide a place that's not just

6:08

public property where people can go.

6:10

And I think there's a lot

6:12

of people in the community who

6:14

don't want the city to participate

6:16

in helping to establish a shelter.

6:18

So that was... Do you think

6:20

their thought is, some people have

6:22

the thought that the more you

6:24

provide for a homeless population, the

6:26

more may come? Absolutely, they feel

6:28

that it enables them and traps

6:30

them in homelessness and they do

6:32

feel that more people will come

6:34

to our community if we allow

6:36

it. I personally find that all

6:38

the homeless people I talk to

6:40

are from this community. I always

6:42

ask when I go to the

6:44

shelter or park and you know

6:46

just try to kind of casually

6:48

ask people where you're from and

6:50

they're always from the local area.

6:53

the next five years is going

6:55

to look like. I guess there's

6:58

no way to know. But based

7:00

on what the community has said

7:02

at once, the results of the

7:04

lawsuit and the discussions going on

7:06

now, what do you think might

7:08

happen? Yeah, I think we do

7:10

have a number of people in

7:12

the community who are trying to

7:14

establish shelters and so that that

7:16

may well change despite whatever the

7:18

city participates in. I think in

7:20

the immediate future here, we're going

7:22

to have some more problems because

7:24

we're not We don't have good

7:26

places for people to be coming

7:28

up later this month. This does

7:30

a strike me as a obvious

7:32

place where homeless people would stay.

7:34

Let's say you either came from

7:36

some place else or ended up

7:38

homeless from grants past. Why do

7:40

you think this is a place

7:42

that's been a center point and

7:44

has it gotten more so over

7:46

the years, over the last five,

7:48

ten years? Our homeless population definitely

7:50

has both increased and become more

7:52

visible. So I think because we

7:54

had the injunction that required us

7:56

to allow people to stay in

7:58

the parks, it was very obvious

8:00

where it's they were in and

8:02

over the course of four years

8:04

they came out of the woods

8:06

and hiding places and and they

8:08

were just right there you know

8:10

in our city parks so it's

8:12

very obvious. But yeah I think

8:14

homelessness is also increasing across America

8:16

and it has to do with

8:18

our economy and the cost of

8:20

housing and lack of retirement for

8:22

some people we have an increasing

8:24

elderly population living outside. You know,

8:26

Grants Pass has a, you know,

8:28

we have a sign downtown and

8:30

you'll see it says it's the

8:32

climate, you know, and I think

8:34

we do have a nice climate

8:36

here when you're housed, but I

8:38

think you're correct that it's not

8:40

a real hospitable environment for people

8:42

year round. We have heat waves

8:44

that can be 105 degrees and

8:46

unfortunately last summer right at the

8:49

time that we were moving people

8:51

into those. lots and out of

8:53

the city parks. The lots had

8:55

no shade and we had two

8:57

heat waves in a row that

8:59

were over 100 degrees and the

9:01

people had no shade and no

9:03

water right now, you know, it's

9:05

cold. It's freezing at night. Sometimes

9:07

it rains for days and days.

9:09

people wouldn't stay here if they

9:11

weren't attached to this community. And

9:13

that's why, you know, every time

9:15

I meet people I ask them

9:17

where they're from and invariably they

9:19

are from this area. But I

9:21

think that there's some people who

9:23

don't want to believe that and

9:25

they think that if we're just

9:27

mean to the homeless or if

9:29

we don't provide a place for

9:31

them to stay, they'll go away

9:33

and they won't. You know, when

9:35

you're in there day after day

9:37

in a rainstorm, you know, they're

9:39

pretty committed to being in this

9:41

being in this area, I think.

9:43

There's a political and social saying

9:45

about the pendulum swinging on different

9:47

issues. Nationally, what do you think

9:49

the grants pass experience says about

9:51

what's going on on a national

9:53

scale or vice versa? What's happening

9:55

nationally? How that impacts what's here?

9:57

Yeah, for smaller cities, you know,

9:59

I think for each community, it's

10:01

a... bit different and we are

10:03

a smaller city we have to

10:05

address this issue I think all

10:07

communities you know no matter what

10:09

their size we have to address

10:11

it and we can't think that

10:13

we can just buy people a

10:15

bus ticket to the next city

10:17

over it doesn't work like that

10:19

you know Los Angeles has to

10:21

take care of its problems too.

10:23

Well I guess I'm thinking in

10:25

terms of public sentiment. People are

10:27

divided, so it's not like it's

10:29

90% feels one way on an

10:31

issue and 10% another, but clearly

10:33

it's almost as if I sense

10:35

building frustration, depending on, not even

10:37

just depending on a person's personal

10:40

politics, but with some of these

10:42

issues the past five years, some

10:44

people have turned around on it

10:46

and decided, you know, the methods

10:48

that have been tried aren't working

10:50

and they seem to be nationally.

10:52

upending a lot of the policies

10:54

and thinking of the past five

10:56

to ten years. Maybe that's too

10:58

analytical, but you have any thoughts

11:00

about that? I think... There's a

11:02

lot of issues that are the

11:04

root causes of homelessness and so

11:06

that's beyond the scope of what

11:08

Grants Pass can deal with. There

11:10

are major economic issues at play,

11:12

there are drug issues, mental health

11:14

issues, family support. One of the

11:16

common denominators I find among the

11:18

homeless people that I encounter is

11:20

lack of family support or network

11:22

and sometimes that's because they burnt

11:24

bridges and sometimes it's just because

11:26

they don't have anyone who can

11:28

help them. And as a society,

11:30

you know, we're going to need

11:32

to figure some of these big

11:34

things out. I think we also,

11:36

you know, just here at the

11:38

municipal level, it's about where people

11:40

can go, you know, and where

11:42

they can be overnight when they

11:44

don't have another place to be.

11:46

And those are kind of different

11:48

issues, I guess. And I've just

11:50

been trying to tackle the location

11:52

here in Grants Pass and some

11:54

people, you know, throw in the

11:56

what about this, what about that,

11:58

you know, and it's not the

12:00

city. job to deal with mental

12:02

health or alcoholism or drug issues

12:04

but we can decide whether. You

12:06

know when you ran to become

12:08

mayor I'm sure that's not what

12:10

you thought you'd have to deal

12:12

with the whole time. Yeah I

12:14

definitely wanted to deal with issues

12:16

of just improving our economic. outlook

12:18

and making some improvements to the

12:20

downtown area and doing more what

12:22

I would call fun projects than

12:24

what I've been dealing with. But

12:26

you know it did become the

12:28

issue. Obviously Grants Pass was the

12:31

named plaintiff in that lawsuit and

12:33

so we've had to deal with

12:35

it. When you talk about a

12:37

low barrier shelter. There are shelters,

12:39

I mean this is a problem

12:41

in many communities, but a lot

12:43

of the homeless people can't meet

12:45

the requirements to be in a

12:47

shelter if it requires that they

12:49

not use drugs on the premises

12:51

or they meet certain criteria. And

12:53

there's divided feelings about whether that's

12:55

fair or not. I mean is

12:57

that an issue here as well.

12:59

So here in Grants Pass we

13:01

have the Gospel Rescue Mission and

13:03

it's been in place for a

13:05

long time and it is a

13:07

high barrier shelter with quite a

13:09

few rules and they're really trying

13:11

to get people back into the

13:13

workforce so it has a lot

13:15

of job emphasis. And I guess

13:17

what I've been trying to establish

13:19

here, we do not have a

13:21

low barrier shelter that's not part

13:23

of a program. And so we

13:25

need a place where people can

13:27

just drop in for a few

13:29

days when they need help and

13:31

hopefully get them more resources to

13:33

continue. But yeah, we do. The

13:35

Gospel Rescue Mission has all kinds

13:37

of rules about pets and... no

13:39

smoking, no drugs, no drinking, that

13:41

keeps a number of people away.

13:43

And I think that they do

13:45

a good job at what they

13:47

do for the people who meet

13:49

those criteria, but we need something

13:51

else for the other people because

13:53

it's not fulfilling our entire need.

13:55

And then lastly, when the suit

13:57

was filed, You weren't there yet,

13:59

but did you agree with fighting

14:01

it? So the city was always

14:03

fighting the suit I mean you

14:05

didn't you didn't agree with the

14:07

lawsuit Although you thought there sounds

14:09

like you thought there should be

14:11

better provisions But what was your

14:13

position? You know I think we

14:15

need to do two things one

14:17

is that we do need to

14:19

protect public spaces and that was

14:21

kind of what the crux of

14:24

the you know the cities appeal

14:26

was that we had an injunction

14:28

placed on us that required us

14:30

to allow homeless people to sleep

14:32

in all of our city parks.

14:34

And I never felt that that

14:36

was right. I think that city

14:38

parks are for all the people

14:40

and recreation, but I do also

14:42

feel that as a city and

14:44

as a society we need to

14:46

provide places for people to go

14:48

and resources to help them get

14:50

out of the situation that they're

14:52

in. Did you say at one

14:54

point there were homeless people sleeping

14:56

in 15 parks? Yeah, we had

14:58

people in all of our city

15:00

parks. There were three, well there

15:02

were four of them that I

15:04

would say had more of an

15:06

issue than the others probably anywhere

15:08

from. 15 to 30 or 40

15:10

people on any given night. And

15:12

then some of the smaller parks

15:14

would have, you know, three tents,

15:16

maybe some days there would be

15:18

zero, some days there'd be six,

15:20

but we did for four years

15:22

have people in all of our

15:24

city parks. And those parks are

15:26

all in residential neighborhoods, they're near

15:28

schools. And so, you know, that

15:30

just wasn't an ideal place for

15:32

people to be, but I do

15:34

feel strongly that we need to

15:36

have places where people can be.

15:38

And here in Oregon we have

15:40

House Bill 3115 requires us to

15:42

establish some laws about what's objectively

15:44

reasonable and each community gets to

15:46

decide for itself what's objectively reasonable.

15:48

And I've heard of some very

15:50

small communities that maybe just have,

15:52

you know, a family becomes homeless

15:54

every now and then and they

15:56

find a place to put, you

15:58

know, this one group of people

16:00

or this. single individual and it's

16:02

a very small problem and obviously

16:04

your larger cities are going to

16:06

have hundreds and thousands of people

16:08

that they need to try to

16:10

to deal with and so everybody's

16:12

approach is going to be a

16:15

little different but I think here

16:17

in Grants Pass where we you

16:19

know we just don't have adequate

16:21

shelter and we need to realize

16:23

that that is a need that

16:25

we have and People can't address

16:27

all of their issues with drugs

16:29

and mental health and getting a

16:31

job and these things while they're

16:33

living out in the cold. You

16:35

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16:37

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16:39

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16:41

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16:43

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16:47

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16:49

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16:51

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16:53

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16:55

And just how fast is

16:58

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17:00

I've been talking to you,

17:02

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17:04

indeed, according to the indeed

17:06

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17:08

need to wait any longer.

17:10

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17:12

now with Indeed. And listeners

17:14

of this show will get

17:16

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17:18

to get your jobs more

17:20

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17:23

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17:27

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17:29

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17:31

US. Terms and conditions apply.

17:33

Hiring, indeed is all you

17:35

need. So off the

17:37

top I'm looking for just maybe

17:39

a one paragraph summary of what's

17:42

most important if people are totally

17:44

unfamiliar with the situation then we'll

17:46

dig in further. So there was

17:49

a class action lawsuit that came

17:51

about a non-profit law firm from

17:53

Portland, Northern of us, collaborated I

17:55

believe with three homeless people and

17:58

the details of the lawsuit was

18:00

that the city was targeting homeless

18:02

people and not letting them rest

18:05

in the public parks. There was

18:07

an injunction in place after the

18:09

lawsuit went through the court system.

18:12

The injunction written by, I don't

18:14

know what the judge's name is,

18:16

off top my head, the injunction

18:18

that was in place on the

18:21

city and the police and fire

18:23

and everybody involved here. The homeless

18:25

people could rest within the city

18:28

parks publicly owned from 7 p.m.

18:30

to 7 a.m. Over the years

18:32

that devolved into letting them stay

18:35

longer, the state actually implemented a

18:37

lot of laws in regards to

18:39

having them moved. I mean, we

18:41

can go on hours and hours

18:44

on how the details of that,

18:46

but it basically evolved from a

18:48

class action lawsuit that targeted the

18:51

city, that they were targeting a

18:53

certain people. The judge in the

18:55

court system said that the city

18:58

had to let people rest in

19:00

the parks at night. and we've

19:02

been dealing with that for six

19:04

plus years now. When did the

19:07

homeless situation get out of control

19:09

here in Grants Pass? I believe

19:11

the homeless in my experience from

19:14

2017 on is the homeless population

19:16

in the city here evolved and

19:18

grew because of this specific lawsuit

19:21

and the injunction against the city.

19:23

We had now offered an opportunity

19:25

for... homeless people that were experiencing

19:28

homelessness, people that didn't want to

19:30

participate in society, to have these

19:32

big beautiful parks to come and

19:34

live in. So bottom line though,

19:37

you think the lawsuit to some

19:39

degree or maybe totally caused a

19:41

crisis here because it advertised that

19:44

grants pass now was letting people

19:46

sleep in the park. My personal

19:48

opinion is that yes, that is

19:51

the root of the explosion of

19:53

the homeless population as well as

19:55

during that same time frame. The

19:57

state of Oregon rolled back drugs.

20:00

loss. To make it so Schedule

20:02

5 drugs such as heroin and

20:04

methamphetamine fentanyl were a lower class

20:07

drug and didn't have punishable effects

20:09

for use, paraphernalia, minor amounts. So

20:11

that on top of having a

20:14

beautiful park to live in, I

20:16

believe my personal opinion is that

20:18

that put a big neon sign

20:20

outside on I-5 to our first

20:23

two exits. Do you think the

20:25

community, I don't know if this

20:27

is more Republican or Democrat or

20:30

what the support was initially, do

20:32

you feel like the community view

20:34

of all of this changed over

20:37

time as they saw the impact

20:39

of things or they have always

20:41

felt a certain way? maybe welcoming

20:43

of the homeless and so on.

20:46

We have a city and depending

20:48

on which population statue look at,

20:50

you're in between 37,000 and 38,000,

20:53

39,000. You have an encompassing county

20:55

that utilizes the city, that works

20:57

in the city, that travels to

21:00

the city, that shops in the

21:02

city upwards of 85, 88,000. All

21:04

of those people, we basically have

21:06

more rural. living people than we

21:09

have city living people. The rural

21:11

people are farmers and business people

21:13

and all sorts. A little bit

21:16

more rural mentality, we have a

21:18

high population of per se Republican-based,

21:20

conservative-based people. The city has a

21:23

higher, the city limits has a

21:25

higher base, I believe, of more

21:27

liberal and democratic people. But when

21:29

we look at the registered... The

21:32

voters rolls, we do show that,

21:34

excuse me, the Republicans voters rolls

21:36

are stronger and there's more numbers

21:39

than the Democrats. I believe the

21:41

fact that you have, it was

21:43

in everybody's face, you have these

21:46

beautiful parks that are utilized by

21:48

the people in the summertime. We

21:50

have beautiful, beautiful summers. It's very

21:52

tempera climate. Sometimes we get a

21:55

little hot, but that's only for

21:57

a couple days a year. People

22:00

take their kids out, there's activities,

22:02

youth activities, youth sports that are

22:04

utilizing these parks for a few

22:06

years, the public couldn't use the

22:08

parks because they would be in

22:10

danger of one-on-one experiences with homeless

22:12

people and normally wasn't a good

22:14

experience. So I believe all of

22:16

that and the increase in the

22:18

population of the homeless numbers the

22:20

community kind of came out this

22:22

last election and said, you know,

22:25

we're kind of done with it.

22:27

We want change. We don't know

22:29

what we want. We can't, we

22:31

can't employ one person to fix

22:33

it. We know we can't fix

22:35

it overnight, but we don't like

22:37

the way it's been going for

22:39

the last four years. So, you

22:41

know, I received about 56% just

22:43

57% of the vote. And most

22:45

of the people that I talked

22:47

to said we want change. Is

22:49

that? Did most of the people

22:51

who won run on a platform

22:53

of changing these things? Yes, there

22:55

was a lot of people that

22:57

ran on that same platform. Some

22:59

of the people, it was kind

23:02

of like a, I guess they

23:04

looked at it like like a

23:06

multi-pronged platform. Public safety, the safety

23:08

of the community was high on

23:10

the list, as well as one

23:12

of my personal platforms is economic

23:14

development. I go through the city

23:16

and you have a number of

23:18

commercial buildings, commercial sites that are

23:20

empty. I mean, we don't have

23:22

the business ship here, we should.

23:24

We used to be back in

23:26

the 80s and previous, we used

23:28

to be a logging community. We

23:30

had a number of mills here,

23:32

we have I-5, just a couple

23:34

blocks up the road, we have

23:36

a railroad that goes through here,

23:39

we got these beautiful rivers. All

23:41

of our industrial complexes, most of

23:43

them from the 80s to now,

23:45

have been vacant, have been... So

23:47

I look at it like if

23:49

your experience in homelessness because you

23:51

have an economic crisis, you or

23:53

you can't rent a house because

23:55

of the affordable housing crisis as

23:57

everybody's deeming it because rents are

23:59

going up and so forth. If

24:01

you don't have a good job,

24:03

then as city officials were hindering

24:05

you to actually prosper in your

24:07

own community. When you look at

24:09

the debates and discussions that have

24:11

happened in grants passed in the

24:13

past five years or so, how

24:15

do you see that as it

24:18

applies to the national discussion over

24:20

some of these things? Well, we,

24:22

I believe that's one reason why

24:24

you're here, is we actually hit

24:26

a national platform with our specific

24:28

lawsuit in injunction case. Our lawsuit

24:30

went up to the Supreme Court

24:32

and it was overturned in the

24:34

Supreme Court. a couple key points

24:36

that came out of that were

24:38

the fact that the Supreme Court

24:40

acknowledged that it should not be

24:42

the cities or the local government's

24:44

responsibility to take care of the

24:46

homeless situation. Secondly, we have, I

24:48

believe it is three styles of

24:50

shelters here in town, one for

24:52

men, one for women, and then

24:55

one for families and kids. I

24:57

believe it's not for the families,

24:59

it's for the kids. So we

25:01

do have a shelter that is

25:03

affordable, I mean that is in

25:05

place for everybody that's experiencing homelessness.

25:07

Those shelters do have a religious

25:09

undertone or religious aspect to them.

25:11

Previous of the Supreme Court case,

25:13

the state, even federal government, didn't

25:15

recognize the shelter that was religious-based.

25:17

They said it wasn't a viable

25:19

shelter. Well, the big thing that

25:21

came out of that for me

25:23

from the Supreme Court was that

25:25

they acknowledge that our shelters, even

25:27

though they're religious-based, are viable shelters

25:29

for people to utilize. So we

25:32

have a gospel rescue mission that

25:34

services men and women, mainly men,

25:36

that is 75% empty, not full,

25:38

empty. And it's because it does

25:40

have higher barriers, meaning that you

25:42

can't smoke and can't do drugs

25:44

on the premises. And they do

25:46

want to they want to help

25:48

you out. They want to help

25:50

you up and they want to

25:52

get you into housing and and

25:54

a lifestyle that you can you

25:56

can you know prosper with One

25:58

pushback that we see is a

26:00

lot of people that are trying

26:02

to help the homeless and that

26:04

are within the volunteers within these

26:06

non-profits are stating that these people

26:09

experiencing homelessness can't abide. I'm going

26:11

to use the wrong terminology. It's

26:13

not very helpful for the homeless

26:15

people. People experience homeless to deal

26:17

with barriers to a shelter. Meaning

26:19

that they don't want to change

26:21

their ways, they don't want to

26:23

change their activities, they don't want

26:25

to change their nature. That's kind

26:27

of been like a sticking point.

26:29

Because you can't have people using

26:31

drugs on site. It's not a

26:33

safe situation for the other people

26:35

in the shelter. Correct. I believe

26:37

that's a very valid point. I'm

26:39

going to take that a little

26:41

bit further is our reach out

26:43

myself and some of the new

26:46

counselors that came in and got

26:48

elected. Our reach out to the

26:50

community was the same aspect. Why

26:52

would our community be unsafe when

26:54

we're allowing all this drug use

26:56

and everything else? You talk to

26:58

the citizens. They're like... We pay

27:00

taxes, we go to jobs, we

27:02

have to take care of our

27:04

kids, we have to put food

27:06

on the table, we have responsibilities,

27:08

we have rules that we got

27:10

to abide by, but then we

27:12

have another side of society that's

27:14

telling us that we have to

27:16

accommodate this minority. by allowing them

27:18

to do whatever they want because

27:20

these are barriers to their recovery.

27:23

You've had people living in the

27:25

parks here when at least one

27:27

shelter is 75% empty. Correct. That

27:29

is absolutely true and correct statement.

27:31

That's been happening for over six

27:33

years now and is to this

27:35

day. If I was to call

27:37

Brian down at the Gospel Rescue

27:39

Mission, I'm sure that he says

27:41

he's probably got 65 beds open.

27:43

So what's happening now as a

27:45

result of the lawsuit? Are you

27:47

clearing out the parks? So basically

27:49

what happened is we actually had

27:51

organization from the community. We had

27:53

retired folk, we had folks that

27:55

have been living here and living

27:57

and raising their children and everything

28:00

here that got together and grouped

28:02

together, worked with the chief of

28:04

police to make sure that they

28:06

were... within their law abiding citizens,

28:08

you know, within the realm of

28:10

the law. And they worked to

28:12

get people out of the parks.

28:14

The previous city council that I

28:16

will be replacing, the previous mayor

28:18

may or that I'll be replacing,

28:20

took upon themselves to set forth

28:22

two separate publicly owned pieces of

28:24

property. gravel style parking lots with

28:26

chain link fence around them and

28:28

allowed the homeless, which they're both

28:30

in currently in operation, to rest

28:32

in those areas. So just moving

28:34

the camps? Correct. It was, I

28:37

believe the community felt it was

28:39

a win for them because they

28:41

had a community action to try

28:43

to save the parks to get

28:45

people out of the parks so

28:47

they could use it for their

28:49

families and they saw a successful

28:51

result. And if you talk to

28:53

any council member or even the

28:55

mayor of the previous council, I

28:57

guarantee everyone I was going to

28:59

say it's not the most ideal

29:01

situation. We were just trying to

29:03

help. We were trying to get

29:05

get get the ball, keep moving

29:07

down the down the down the

29:09

thing down the road and and

29:11

help help out our community. It

29:14

ended up. A lot of the

29:16

community didn't agree with what their

29:18

actions were because it kind of

29:20

just acerbated the problem as far

29:22

as it is at right now.

29:24

We're only a week into being

29:26

sworn in and the controversy around

29:28

these two encampments is huge. It

29:30

actually has got to a point

29:32

where we're getting violent agitators disrupting

29:34

us trying to leave a dinner

29:36

facility in the middle of downtown.

29:38

So it's... It's heated and it

29:40

really, it's, it's, I don't know

29:42

how we're gonna go forward, but

29:44

I believe we're gonna coalesce together

29:46

with all the new counselors and

29:48

the old counselors. Our objective is

29:51

to kind of coordinate and prop

29:53

up some of the non-profits in

29:55

the area here and try to

29:57

get some more solutions coming up

29:59

down the. but you do have

30:01

a huge community push that says

30:03

that they want to start having

30:05

accountability for everybody's actions. So is

30:07

it accurate to say the city

30:09

has the green light to move

30:11

homeless people out of the parks?

30:13

But there's not really a solution

30:15

yet as to what to do

30:17

with them because I don't think

30:19

sounds like people don't want them

30:21

just simply dumped nowhere. Correct. So

30:23

as far as, you know, and

30:25

we've consulted with legal and everything

30:28

else is, there is. a law

30:30

on the books right now that

30:32

says that we have to, if

30:34

we disperse people from parks or

30:36

disperse people, people experience in homelessness

30:38

from a resting area where they're

30:40

resting, there has to be reasonably

30:42

objective moat. It's very vague and

30:44

I apologize if I'm stumbling on

30:46

my words here, but it's it's

30:48

so vague that nobody can define

30:50

this This law just came out

30:52

a little while ago and but

30:54

basically it says that the city

30:56

will have to come up with

30:58

Objectable and reasonable Accommodations for them

31:00

or basically or something and not

31:02

just kick them out you can't

31:05

go up and take care of

31:07

them Correct, you still have to,

31:09

no, it doesn't state that you

31:11

have to take care of them,

31:13

it states that you have to

31:15

basically be reasonably an objective in

31:17

how you relocate them. And what

31:19

that means to me, and what

31:21

that means, I believe, to some

31:23

of the council members that are

31:25

in power at this point right

31:27

now, is that as a community,

31:29

as local government leaders, we need

31:31

to try to work with all

31:33

the community resources that we possibly

31:35

can, which in our case will

31:37

be the churches, will be the

31:39

non-profits, will be any community organization,

31:42

the elks club, the WFO, anybody

31:44

that wants to help and organize

31:46

and try to get something to

31:48

help these people out. On the

31:50

other side of the coin, we

31:52

also feel that there is a

31:54

lot of people within these encampments

31:56

that we, these two. encampments that

31:58

we have that are not necessarily

32:00

the people that need to be

32:02

helped from our community, that they

32:04

are outside resources, that they are

32:06

here either left over or come

32:08

through recently just to kind of

32:10

take advantage of our situation. Have

32:12

you noticed Since the Supreme Court

32:14

decision, did some people move out?

32:16

Did the problem lessen a little

32:19

bit or didn't seem to have

32:21

an impact? So just coming into

32:23

office only being in a week,

32:25

I still don't have a lot

32:27

of the stats that is on

32:29

our agenda to look forward is

32:31

actually take all the information that

32:33

the previous council had gathered over

32:35

their last four years in regards

32:37

to the homeless people and how

32:39

the non-profits and how all organizations

32:41

within the community have been dealing

32:43

with them. and do more of

32:45

our own investigation as well, but

32:47

we still have to digest that

32:49

information with that new agenda coming

32:51

up. We also need to download

32:53

a lot of the statistics that

32:56

we weren't privy to when we

32:58

were not in office. When you're

33:00

not in office and you're campaigning

33:02

for to become into office and

33:04

to help lead the city, there's

33:06

only so much information that we

33:08

can gather. The information we can

33:10

gather is the information that any

33:12

public citizen can gather. So once

33:14

you actually get. sworn in you

33:16

are a little bit more privy

33:18

to some more information you have

33:20

resources and you have direct contact

33:22

with the people that you need

33:24

to get that information from and

33:26

we already have on our next

33:28

coming up upcoming agendas for February

33:30

as well exploring more avenues and

33:32

getting more educated on the homeless

33:35

situation and how what resources we

33:37

have in our community to help

33:39

that out with as you mentioned

33:41

this is probably my last question

33:43

this case got national attention of

33:45

course But what do you see

33:47

as the implication for other communities?

33:49

What does this say to them?

33:51

Well, you know, I can't speak

33:53

for other communities, but I look

33:55

at it, like since Grants Pass,

33:57

Oregon did get national coverage because

33:59

of their Supreme Court case and

34:01

the overturn of our previous law.

34:03

Share it with your friends and

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34:07

projects. for Cheryl Atkinson podcast, and

34:09

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34:12

book, my bestseller, Follow the Science,

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how big farmer misleads, obscures, and

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prevails for some pretty incredible insight

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into the corrupt medical establishment, how

34:20

your doctors are taught both in

34:22

med school and in their continuing

34:24

medical education classes that in my

34:26

view, properly addressed by our very

34:28

well-funded public health agencies. And why

34:30

when we go to the doctor,

34:32

so often they are very happy

34:34

and anxious to treat our maladies

34:36

with pills and potions but seem

34:38

very disinterested at times in figuring

34:40

out the root causes, particularly on

34:42

a population level so that these

34:44

things could ideally be prevented in

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incredible insight into the corrupt medical

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establishment, how your doctors are taught

35:13

both in med school and in

35:15

their continuing medical education classes that

35:17

in my view, and I think

35:19

the evidence supports this, leads to

35:22

a lot of corruption inside the

35:24

industry. Sometimes the doctors themselves don't

35:26

even understand. the motivations behind those

35:28

who are teaching them or feeding

35:30

them information. In some respects, some

35:32

of them are sort of innocent

35:35

bystanders in a process that even

35:37

they don't understand or haven't taken

35:39

the time to fully analyze, but

35:41

it explains a lot about how

35:43

we got to the point where

35:45

there are so many chronic diseases

35:47

that have not been properly addressed

35:50

by our very well-funded public health

35:52

agencies, and why when we go

35:54

to the doctor so often... They

35:56

very happy and

35:58

anxious to treat

36:00

our maladies with

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pills post.